Talk:Wire Trap: Difference between revisions

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 ==DKJr==
-{{talk}}
 According to the Perfect Daijiten, the ones in ''DKJr'' are the same enemy as the ones in ''DK94'', but '''not''' the same as the ''SMUSA'' ones.... [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 20:53, 20 December 2017 (EST)
 :This was already touched on [[Talk:Spark#"Sparky"|here]]. The "Sparkies" in ''Mario vs. Donkey Kong 2: March of the Minis'' and ''Mario vs. Donkey Kong: Mini-Land Mayhem!'' are designed after the ''Doki Doki Panic'' / ''Super Mario Bros. 2'' ones, which would seem to make the intent obvious in a series that makes semi-frequent callbacks to Snapjaw and Nitpicker. The description in Perfect Daijiten even mentions that it's an [https://i.imgur.com/rMet0zG.jpg "American Spark"] and also has a [https://i.imgur.com/lVHkZlH.jpg separate page] containing all the enemies whose names changed between Japan (''Doki Doki Panic'') and USA (''Super Mario Bros. 2''), except the latter claim can't be verified right now since Spark (along with Tweeter and Flurry) aren't listed in the ''Doki Doki Panic'' manual. Coupled with the ''[https://i.imgur.com/5iiT6kS.jpg Super Mario Collection]'' guide using the usual spelling, [http://i.imgur.com/MF1dZ7H.jpg and] [http://i.imgur.com/HYeUOpv.jpg it] [http://i.imgur.com/dqFFR51.jpg is] [http://i.imgur.com/3OabVR8.jpg splitting] [http://i.imgur.com/z9vOPNp.jpg hairs] [http://i.imgur.com/Z6Iudls.jpg again]. At any rate, the result of the above proposal means Spark's change is currently recognized based on platform and wire versions, not the name it happens to have (which there are many). [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 08:58, 21 December 2017 (EST)
 ::Huh, I had thought that the DKjr ones went on those climbable poles, must have been misremembering Snapjaw instead. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 19:31, 21 December 2017 (EST)
 :::Checked, and yes they do travel along wires. The orange ones on those zigzagged wires, and the blue ones on the disconnected ones. Not exclusively, but it seems that there was an intended connection between them and the DK94 ones. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 01:55, 17 February 2018 (EST)
-::::[[Wire]]s are thin, horizontal ropes that first appeared in the Game Boy game, and the player is only be able to hang from them. There are none on [[Stage 3]]. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 07:47, 16 March 2018 (EDT)
+::::[[Wire]]s are thin, horizontal ropes that first appeared in the Game Boy game, and the player is only be able to hang from them. There are none on [[Stage 3]]. Daijiten specifies this difference in its description. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 07:47, 16 March 2018 (EDT)
+== Split Sparky (''Donkey Kong'') from Wire Trap ==
+{{SettledTPP}}
+{{ProposalOutcome|failed|2-6|don't split}}
+The above proposal went with the decision to merge the (''Mario vs.'') ''Donkey Kong'' Sparky with the ''Super Mario Sunshine'' Wire Trap, but looking back, I believe there is ample reason to split further. While the name "Wire Trap" implies that they are objects that travel on wires, they are actually on ropes, which are thicker. Sparkies are electrical balls that generate from one side of the wire itself, move to the next, and disappear. Wire Traps, on the other hand, have a shell-like form, and while the red ones similarly exit and enter funnel-shaped objects at the ends of their rope, the blue ones bounce back and forth. Sparkies are fairly different from Sparks, which mostly circle around platforms, but they are still different enough from Wire Traps that sharing the same article also seems a bit forced in retrospect. Splitting will affect the wire and rope articles, as the ''Super Mario Sunshine'' ropes are currently considered wires.
+'''Proposer:''' {{User|LinkTheLefty}}<br>
+'''Deadline:''' December 21, 2018, 23:59 (GMT)
+===Support===
+#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} Pro perposal.
+#{{User|GrainedCargo192}} Per proposal.
+===Oppose===
+#{{User|Doomhiker}} As per Doc von Schmeltwick's comments most Wire Traps do disappear when they reach the other end of the rope, and the Sparks from Donkey Kong GB do have a physical form, leaving the fact that Wire Traps  travel on ropes instead of wires, which in my opinion is not personally enough to warrant a spit.
+#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} Per Doc von Schmeltwick's comments and Doomhiker.
+#{{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}} [https://youtu.be/SR3qZlQHgss Per below.]
+#{{User|Toadette the Achiever}} Per all.
+#{{User|Waluigi Time}} Per all.
+#{{User|WeirdDave13}} Per all
+===Comments===
+What about the ones from DK Jr, which PEotGMCE groups with the DK94 ones? Some of those travel on those static particles in a similar manner.... [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 20:08, 7 December 2018 (EST)
+:I think that can remain in the Spark article, at least for the time being. The name Sparky is most likely meant as a way to break off from the original Spark, similar to when Missile Bill or Bouncing Bullet Bill were originally grouped together with Bullet Bill in Japanese material until they eventually came into their own. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 20:15, 7 December 2018 (EST)
+::You set the deadline to December of 2017, not 2018. You might want to fix that. [[User:GrainedCargo192|GrainedCargo192]] ([[User talk:GrainedCargo192|talk]])
+[[File:DKGB Spark wire.gif|frame|Very phyisical.]]
+Um, Sparks in DK94 ''have'' a physical form, they're a 4-pronged ball with a circle of electricity glowing out from said ball. Additionally, most Wire Traps ''do'' disappear when they reach the other end of the rope. Only a few in
+a single mission of Noki Bay make an exception to that. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:57, 8 December 2018 (EST)
+:I believe that sprite is mainly to make the enemy clearer to see on the Game Boy screen; in ''Mario vs. Donkey Kong'', they are unambiguously balls of electricity, with a more animated sprite to take advantage of the Game Boy Advance. Also, in both ''Donkey Kong'' games, the Sparky is depicted as static electricity emitted from the wire itself, whereas the red Wire Trap in ''Super Mario Sunshine'' comes out of and into the funnel-shaped objects at the ends of the rope it's on. I did forget that was the difference between the red and blue versions (as it's the blue ones that travel back and forth), which I've edited into the proposal. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 05:20, 9 December 2018 (EST)
+::The thing in GBDK is ''not'' simply electricity. It's clearly a collection of Jacob's ladders. Note how there are clear arcs between each spike that you can actually see the wire through when the electricity is at its most outwards. Additionally, some of the "wires" in GBDK are things like mast rigging for a ship, which would, in fact, be ropes. Sparks travel on them too. I've been playing through it today. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 05:24, 9 December 2018 (EST)
+:::Back in Game Boy ''Donkey Kong'', the horizontal/diagonal wire and vertical rope were referred to with the blanket term "rope", with "wire" having only come later in ''Mario vs. Donkey Kong'' - but both thin objects that can only be hung off of are clearly intended to be the same thing in form and function, differentiating themselves from ropes (the manual itself shows a screenshot of the diagonal, rig-like version as an example of a horizontal rope, having the same spinning controls). The ropes that hang between two poles in stages like Big-City are definitely supposed to be the same electrical wires. I'll concede that the original ''Donkey Kong'' version might have been intended to be a physical object and ''Mario vs. Donkey Kong'' might have been a redesign, but I think it's honestly hard to determine one way or the other. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 06:01, 9 December 2018 (EST)
+::::And the things in SMS are far more like the "wires" in every way anyways (really thin, can be spun on, have these little electrical thingies traveling on them...). It's a lot more likely for a 2002 ''Super Mario'' enemy to be based off of a GBDK enemy than one might think, mainly as that's where many of Mario's miscellaneous moves originated (rolling, backflipping, shimmying....the middle one even has a similar control input.) Anyways, think about it. Round, spiked object with electricity glowing between said spikes, acting in the same specific manner....seems unlikely that that's a coincidence from my perspective. At least by the time of the official Japanese guide. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 06:06, 9 December 2018 (EST)
+:::::When you put it like that, it's certainly possible. Still, I'd say that the ''Super Mario Sunshine'' ropes are the direct predecessor to the horizontal objects that the rope article classifies as "tightropes" since they can be stood and walked on top of. And anyway, even though you make a good case for it, I think the proposal is still a fair one since fully splitting Sparky wasn't an option before and we can now reconfirm the consensus on it. You should oppose it. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 06:32, 9 December 2018 (EST)
+::::::I'd suggest just having "Rope (horizontal)" and "Rope (vertical)" pages, given "tightrope" is conjecture. The diagonal would go with horizontal due to function. On a related note, we still need articles for swinging vines and swings themselves. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 06:54, 9 December 2018 (EST)
+== Should this proposal really have failed? ==
+I kinda regret from having opposed the split. I think they're different enough, and are not based off of each other. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 13:05, 26 January 2019 (EST)
+:The proposal failed because there was four more opposers than supporters. If you want to split them then you can make another proposal. {{User:Doomhiker/sig}} 13:13, 26 January 2019 (EST)
+::A proposal? I wouldn't recommand making another proposal about it. Not only will it not pass given the margin of the original,  but i don't know much about them. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 13:18, 26 January 2019 (EST)
+:::I've played 100% through both DK94 and ''Sunshine'', and I can assure you they're the same thing. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 14:02, 26 January 2019 (EST)
+::::I feel like a counterproposal is needed. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 12:29, March 30, 2019 (EDT)
+:::::I still don't think it will garner enough support. {{User:Toadette the Achiever/sig}} 12:30, March 30, 2019 (EDT)
+::::::I wonder what would LinkTheLefty think about it now... --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 12:46, March 30, 2019 (EDT)
+:::::::While we have "evidences" that they are the same, it doesn't seal for everyone. Maybe something more significant? It is one particular issue i have. That says, i still wonder what does LinkTheLefty think about it... --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 13:02, March 31, 2019 (EDT)
+::::::::With current information, I think this can go either way, so I don't feel particularly strong about it one way or another. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 13:26, March 31, 2019 (EDT)
+:::::::::I feel strongly about the issue, but, we split Kaintesuru Hono from Roto-Disc first, then we see what to do about the Sparky. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 11:27, April 8, 2019 (EDT)
+::::::::::I feel strongly that this should stay put. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 12:28, April 8, 2019 (EDT)