MarioWiki:Proposals: Difference between revisions

"Comical" and "comedic" should be fine, as those simply mean relating to comedy. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 19:31, May 12, 2024 (EDT)

:"Comedic" is definitely fine, but in multiple dictionary sources I've come across, the definition of "comical" meaning "relating to comedy" is either listed as obsolete and deprecated, or absent altogether. [[User:DrippingYellow|DrippingYellow]] ([[User talk:DrippingYellow|talk]]) 19:43, May 12, 2024 (EDT)

==New features==

:::::::::::Super Mario Wiki is not the only site I help edit and curate. In my experience, trimming is just part of the process, and it really bothers me that it is being treated as an objective wrong. Wanting to keep the ''Tour'' galleries is one thing. Asserting that removing any of these images compromises the "completeness" of the site is just not true. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 20:26, May 14, 2024 (EDT)

::::::::Just to be completely clear in case there's any doubt, Gallery:Mario Kart Tour course icons will not be affected by this proposal. Only the galleries on course pages will. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 02:58, May 15, 2024 (EDT)

I put together a proof of concept on one way to handle this proposal in [[User:SolemnStormcloud/Sandbox#Wii Mushroom Gorge|my sandbox]]. It uses {{tem|main-gallery}} to link to the appropriate section of [[Gallery:Mario Kart Tour course icons]] as smoothly as possible. [[User:SolemnStormcloud|SolemnStormcloud]] ([[User talk:SolemnStormcloud|talk]]) 13:38, May 14, 2024 (EDT)

::I like it. [[User:SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)]] ([[User talk:SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)|talk]]) 14:19, May 14, 2024 (EDT)

:::Unfortunately, see my comment regarding Gallery:Mario Kart Tour course icons. {{User:Mario/sig}} 18:32, May 14, 2024 (EDT)

::Love it! Exactly what I envisioned. [[User:Shadow2|Shadow2]] ([[User talk:Shadow2|talk]]) 19:11, May 14, 2024 (EDT)

::Yeah, that looks like an alright compromise. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 02:58, May 15, 2024 (EDT)

Ok,this is getting to be very crazy! [[User:SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)]] ([[User talk:SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)|talk]]) 13:41, May 14, 2024 (EDT)

:100kb JPEGs are no laughing matter! {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 14:31, May 14, 2024 (EDT)

==Changes==

:@Big Super Mario Fan: What has certain games not being canon have to do with ports and remakes of mainline titles? No one has said anything about which games are being canon or not in this discussion until you brought. Hell, no one in this discussion has even ''uttered'' the word "canon" before you did (and as you can see, you bringing up canon has brought on a whole different discussion that completely undermines the original topic of the proposal).<br>Truthfully, bringing up canonicity in this discussion about regarding rereleases as equal to the originals (i.e. putting them in the exact same lists and categories as if they're standalone games), would imply that you view ''all'' ports, remakes, remasters, etc. as canon... which muddies the water even more on what could be regarded as canon or not, since certain remakes and rereleases actually provide different or additional content that isn't found in the original version, bringing into the discussion which version is canon and which version is not. See ''[[Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker]]'', for instance: the original Wii U version clearly precedes ''[[Super Mario 3D World]]'', but the [[Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker (Nintendo Switch / Nintendo 3DS)|Switch/3DS rerelease]] precedes ''[[Super Mario Odyssey]]'' instead. Which version of Treasure Tracker is canon, then? That's not even saying about the DLC for the Switch version, which precedes ''[[New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe]]'', a rerelease of ''[[New Super Mario Bros. U]]'' that should be even older than 3D World ''and'' Odyssey. What is the timeline here?<br>This is why [[MarioWiki:Canonicity]] states that there's no officially recognized canon. Everyone has their own interpretation of what is canon and what is not canon, and changes into rereleases of mainline titles make that matter even more complicated. {{User:Arend/sig}} 12:26, May 14, 2024 (EDT)

@Hewer:

:loooooooooooooooool where are you even getting these numbers from [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 19:43, May 13, 2024 (EDT)

:You know, the sentence right after the boldened one stating that there's no officially recognized canon (the sencence you're arguing against) states ''"Therefore, arguments over canonicity (canon vs. non-canon) are purely speculative, and are of no importance to wiki articles."'' Your argument about there not only being a definitive canon (which you haven't elaborated on yet), but there being at least eight different Mario universes in a Mario multiverse, ''is exactly that kind of purely speculative that the Canonicity page was talking about''. I'm not even sure if Nintendo would currently recognize several of these as part of their franchise (throwing muck in that whole multiverse idea of yours), such as "live-action movies" (there's only one of those btw) or "comics" (there's the German Club Nintendo comics and the Nintendo Comics System of Valiant btw, I doubt these share a universe). They sure don't recognize ''[[Hotel Mario]]'' as part of it.<br>Moreover, I'm not interested to, for instance, split the Mario page into several different articles that each describe a different incarnation of the character, if your Paper Mario proposal indicates anything. It'd be simpler and more organized to keep it all in [[History of Mario|one article]]. {{User:Arend/sig}} 20:11, May 13, 2024 (EDT)

@Arend:

[[User:Big Super Mario Fan|Big Super Mario Fan]] ([[User talk:Big Super Mario Fan|talk]]) 20:34, May 13, 2024 (EDT)

:"Because than people think there is only one Mario. Which is not the case at all." ...there. ''Is.'' Though. This is quite literally what the Canonicity guidelines mean when they say "baseless speculation"--Mario in Mario Golf isn't a different character from Mario in Mario Tennis. Even if we wanted to go along with this when we already moved away from the "Marioverse" term as far back as 2007, this doesn't factor in the dozens of lesser spinoffs and side-games--though to be blunt, trying to argue between the how Mario is in some way "different" between [[Mario's Egg Catch]] and [[Mario Super Sluggers]] is beyond an exercise in futility, and would be less than useless. {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 20:43, May 13, 2024 (EDT)

@Camwoodstock:

[[User:Big Super Mario Fan|Big Super Mario Fan]] ([[User talk:Big Super Mario Fan|talk]]) 20:50, May 13, 2024 (EDT) Big Super Mario Fan

:I'd ask why you insist the ''+ Rabbids'' one is different of all possible options, but the fact is neither I nor anyone else here cares. You're basing this off nothing at all other than your own preconceived notions, which is the very definition of speculation. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 20:56, May 13, 2024 (EDT)

@Doc von Schmeltwick:

[[User:Big Super Mario Fan|Big Super Mario Fan]] ([[User talk:Big Super Mario Fan|talk]]) 21:08, May 13, 2024 (EDT)

:You didn't say "Rabbid Mario." You said "Mario from Mario + Rabbids." That's not the same thing. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 22:19, May 13, 2024 (EDT)

"Heavily implied", "semi-confirmed" — these read to me as admissions there isn't proof. We're a wiki. We work with facts, not guesses. [[User:Ahemtoday|Ahemtoday]] ([[User talk:Ahemtoday|talk]]) 22:40, May 13, 2024 (EDT)

:Exactly this. There is a time and a place for headcanons and inferences; a matter-of-fact wiki is perhaps the last place you should be putting them. {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 22:41, May 13, 2024 (EDT)

@Doc von Schmeltwick:

[[User:Big Super Mario Fan|Big Super Mario Fan]] ([[User talk:Big Super Mario Fan|talk]]) 22:58, May 13, 2024 (EDT)

@Ahemtoday:

[[User:Big Super Mario Fan|Big Super Mario Fan]] ([[User talk:Big Super Mario Fan|talk]]) 22:58, May 13, 2024 (EDT)

:It is very easy to take a single thing, not interrogate it at all, and use "logic" to extrapolate it to everything with no regard for its actual bearing on reality. If I am to be convinced that Mario in a specific set of games is a different character from Mario in some other set, I require nothing less than an official source explicitly stating as such. To my knowledge, nothing like that exists for any of these cases. [[User:Ahemtoday|Ahemtoday]] ([[User talk:Ahemtoday|talk]]) 23:15, May 13, 2024 (EDT)

I would like to point out that fellow NIWA wiki, the Zelda Wiki, the wiki for ''The Legend of Zelda'' series, which ''definitely'' features different incarnations of Link, Zelda, and various enemies and NPCs, do not split these incarnations in separate articles and keep them all under the same subjects (e.g. there aren't multiple articles on Link or Octorok, despite there being multiple versions of those). I know that our wiki is not the same thing, but if a wiki based on a series with ''100% confirmed'' different incarnations of the main cast doesn't split their articles, then why ''should'' <u>our</u> wiki do this when the series we do cover don't have multiple incarnations of their characters at all (or it's being "implied" or "semi-confirmed" at best)? {{User:Arend/sig}} 01:33, May 14, 2024 (EDT)

[[User:Big Super Mario Fan|Big Super Mario Fan]] ([[User talk:Big Super Mario Fan|talk]]) 02:20, May 14, 2024 (EDT)

:While it's fair to say that we don't always have to do what other wikis are doing, it's also important to note that we don't always have to do the ''opposite'' of what other wikis are doing, either.<br>I brought up the Zelda Wiki as an example on why your idea doesn't work, because ''The Legend of Zelda'' series is the most obvious example in there being multiple versions of the same characters, that most of the time look ''way'' different in nearly every installment, and yet the Zelda Wiki does not resort to splitting them (it would only be unhandy and complicated, after all.<br>''Super Mario'' isn't like that. At all. Throughout nearly all the "universes" you've determined, Mario looks the same, and his demeanor doesn't really change throughout most of them either. In essence, ''Mario + Rabbids''!Mario is ''identical'' in appearance and behavior to mainline!Mario, so there's no need for a separate article for Mario in ''Mario + Rabbids''. Same goes for ''Mario & Luigi''!Mario, no need to split that off, either. Most other differences throughout these incarnations are really just splitting hairs and superficial, so when even the Zelda franchise doesn't seem worth to split all it's ''actually different'' incarnations into separate articles, then why should ''we'' be splitting hairs here?<br><s>Also I do have to agree with Hewer that we've gone quite off-topic; I'm just throwing my two cents on this multiverse thing you brought up for no reason</s> {{User:Arend/sig}} 11:30, May 14, 2024 (EDT)

Y'all, we've gotten ''way'' off track. This proposal isn't even ''about'' universes. [[User:Ahemtoday|Ahemtoday]] ([[User talk:Ahemtoday|talk]]) 03:32, May 14, 2024 (EDT)

Ok, {{@|Hewer}} On the SMA4, also a bad example b/c the Wii U version. {{@|Big Super Mario Fan}} First, none of what you say is fully confirmed. Second, even IF there's a multiverse, there would be more universes than what you specified. Third, this doesn't have to do with universes. Fourth, this needs to stop. [[User:SONIC123CDMANIA+&#38;K(B&#38;ATSA)|SONIC123CDMANIA+&#38;K(B&#38;ATSA)]] ([[User talk:SONIC123CDMANIA+&#38;K(B&#38;ATSA)|talk]]) 08:40, May 14, 2024 (EDT)

:Wait, you're not making any sense here. First, you're saying that, somehow, the Wii U version of Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker happens ''before'' the Switch/3DS version of Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker, even though it's ''the exact same adventure'', so it would logically take place at the same time, something you state as such later anyway. I mean, I get ''why'' you would say that, given that in the Wii U version, it's directly followed up by 3D World, but on Switch and 3DS, it's directly followed up by Odyssey instead; but if anything, this would more logically indicate a split timeline, not that the exact same adventure happens twice. Then you say that the 2nd Captain Toad adventure (by which I assume you mean the DLC episode) happens ''inbetween'' the Wii U and Switch versions of the regular game (which already makes no sense given that it's DLC for the Switch iteration, so it should happen after that, meaning that ''New Super Mario Bros. U'' would also take place inbetween those versions (specifically after 3D World, because there ''really'' is no room for another adventure to squeeze inbetween; the 3D World opening plays directly after the credits of the Wii U version)... only to THEN say ''New Super Mario Bros. U'' takes place before BOTH 3D World and Odyssey?<br>Basically, what you're saying is this: Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker (Wii U) > Super Mario 3D World > Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker (Switch, Special Episode (DLC)) > New Super Mario Bros. U (Deluxe) > Super Mario 3D World > Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker (Switch, main campaign (even though it's the same as Wii U's main campaign)) > Super Mario Odyssey<br>...bro, I think it would be easier to say that the rereleases happen in an alternate timeline, than what you're trying to explain here, because what I've got out of your explanation doesn't make ''any'' sense. And do I really need to say that this timeline you've given me is also ''highly speculative''? Aka, ''not confirmed''? As in, ''not canon''? {{User:Arend/sig}} 18:17, May 14, 2024 (EDT)

::Also, would it hurt if you had answered my things regarding the canonicity on remakes under where I was actually talking about that, instead of under the Zelda Wiki stuff? {{User:Arend/sig}} 18:21, May 14, 2024 (EDT)

@SONIC123CDMANIA:

:Please just stop. You can ''say'' that it's right, but that doesn't make it true. It's not an official distinction, there's no consistency between the relations of games. This '''again''' has nothing to do with the proposal you are discussing on. If you ''insist'' on having this discussion, it would make more sense to do so on [[Mariowiki Talk:Canonicity]], though it's probably better suited for the forums. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:56, May 14, 2024 (EDT)

::Yeah, Big Super Mario Fan keeps saying those two terms a lot, as if it means anything (plus I wouldn't say that Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker happening twice or that New Super Mario Bros. U happens both before and after Super Mario 3D World is "strongly implied" or "semi-confirmed" in any way).<br>At this point, "strongly implied, semi-confirmed + you can watch the cutscenes" feels like a bad equivalent of the "L + ratio + get rekt" meme or however that goes. <s>(And I still have no idea why they brought up what is or isn't canon themselves, on their own proposal about merging rereleases with mainline titles)</s> {{User:Arend/sig}} 18:38, May 14, 2024 (EDT)

:It doesn't matter how many times you baselessly declare there is a canon, it won't become any more true ("semi-confirmed" wouldn't cut it even if it was accurate). This is all still pointless speculation that will absolutely not affect how the wiki is organised, and you're extremely unlikely to convince anyone here that your speculative canon and timeline is better to base the wiki on than [[MarioWiki:Canonicity|the way we've been doing it for years]], so I suggest you just drop it, or at the very least, as Doc said, do this discussion on [[MarioWiki talk:Canonicity]] instead of your unrelated proposal. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 03:23, May 15, 2024 (EDT)

:Now you're saying that the Treasure Tracker DLC takes place before ''the Treasure Tracker main game?!'' How does that make any sense at all?! I already said that it makes more sense that it would happen after the Switch version of the game, given that it's DLC for that game. And again, The Switch and 3DS versions are practically the same as the Wii U version aside from the fact that it's directly followed by Odyssey instead of 3D world. Again, it makes more sense to say that the 3DS/Switch version takes place in an alternate timeline (also, your proposed timeline doesn't even come close to "semi-confirmed" or "heavily implied"; saying that the Treasure Tracker DLC takes place before ''any'' of the main games is heavily speculative). {{User:Arend/sig}} 06:39, May 15, 2024 (EDT)

@Hewer:

[[User:Big Super Mario Fan|Big Super Mario Fan]] ([[User talk:Big Super Mario Fan|talk]]) 04:13, May 15, 2024 (EDT)

===Create seperate pages for Level themes===

[[User:Big Super Mario Fan|Big Super Mario Fan]] ([[User talk:Big Super Mario Fan|talk]]) 17:45, May 14, 2024 (EDT)

===Break alphabetical order in enemy lists to list enemy variants below their base form===