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Talk:Mario Bros. (game): Difference between revisions
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==''Super Mario Bros. 3'' and Game Boy Advance== | ==''Super Mario Bros. 3'' and Game Boy Advance== | ||
Lightly touched on [[#Split Mario Bros. Classic from this article?|above]], but moving from [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive 52#Split Switch/3DS ports with substantial new content|this proposal]], I definitely think that both the Classic Mario Bros. battle mode in ''Super Mario Bros. 3'' and the Game Boy Advance remake of ''Mario Bros.'' are easily transformative enough to split, especially considering ''Kaettekita Mario Bros.'' is its own article. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 11:51, November 13, 2020 (EST) | Lightly touched on [[#Split Mario Bros. Classic from this article?|above]], but moving from [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive 52#Split Switch/3DS ports with substantial new content|this proposal]], I definitely think that both the Classic Mario Bros. battle mode in ''Super Mario Bros. 3'' and the Game Boy Advance remake of ''Mario Bros.'' are easily transformative enough to split, especially considering ''Kaettekita Mario Bros.'' is its own article. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 11:51, November 13, 2020 (EST) | ||
:@LinkTheLefty It would require lots of copying and pasting, and that would be painful. I agree with splitting though. [[User:Benjaminkirsc|Benjaminkirsc]] ([[User talk:Benjaminkirsc|talk]]) 17:31, December 6, 2020 (EST) | :@LinkTheLefty It would require lots of copying and pasting, and that would be painful. I agree with splitting though. [[User:Benjaminkirsc|Benjaminkirsc]] ([[User talk:Benjaminkirsc|talk]]) 17:31, December 6, 2020 (EST) | ||
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The recent discovery of the existence of [[Mario Bros. Special]] and [[Punch Ball Mario Bros.]] ports for the PC-8001 indicate that the version of Mario Bros. developed by MISA and published by Westside Soft House for the PC-8001 is most likely a bootleg. Westside Soft House also has a history of publishing a bootleg of the arcade game Tron and a prototype of a Xevious bootleg developed by MISA meant to be published by Westside Soft House has also been discovered. ~Cherri of [[User:Arctic Circle System|Arctic Circle System]] ([[User talk:Arctic Circle System|talk]]) 00:46, January 15, 2022 (EST) | The recent discovery of the existence of [[Mario Bros. Special]] and [[Punch Ball Mario Bros.]] ports for the PC-8001 indicate that the version of Mario Bros. developed by MISA and published by Westside Soft House for the PC-8001 is most likely a bootleg. Westside Soft House also has a history of publishing a bootleg of the arcade game Tron and a prototype of a Xevious bootleg developed by MISA meant to be published by Westside Soft House has also been discovered. ~Cherri of [[User:Arctic Circle System|Arctic Circle System]] ([[User talk:Arctic Circle System|talk]]) 00:46, January 15, 2022 (EST) | ||
:Bootlegs scrub away copyright information of the original developers. The packaging, print ad, and title screen for this port labels Nintendo as the copyright holder. ''MBS'' and ''PBMB'' are entirely different games so they are irrelevant. Ocean Software once published a bootleg of ''Donkey Kong'' and yet received rights for ''DK'''s European home computer ports a few years later.--[[User:Platform|Platform]] ([[User talk:Platform|talk]]) 14:37, April 8, 2022 (EDT) | |||
== The "For alternate box art, see the game's gallery." section in the infobox == | == The "For alternate box art, see the game's gallery." section in the infobox == | ||
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There are two wrong things with it: One, is that it implies that the image that is there is box art, which is not; it is a flyer. The second is that the "game's gallery" text links to [[Gallery:Mario Bros. (game)#Box art]], but a "Box art" section doesn't exist in that gallery page. | There are two wrong things with it: One, is that it implies that the image that is there is box art, which is not; it is a flyer. The second is that the "game's gallery" text links to [[Gallery:Mario Bros. (game)#Box art]], but a "Box art" section doesn't exist in that gallery page. | ||
I am aware that this is both thanks to the {{tem|infobox}} template, which has in its code to say <code><nowiki>For alternate box art, see the [[Gallery:{{{gallery|{{PAGENAME}}#Box art}}}|game's gallery]].</nowiki></code>, and thanks to this game being an Arcade game, instead of a console game like most of the games in this wiki. | I am aware that this is both thanks to the {{tem|game infobox}} template, which has in its code to say <code><nowiki>For alternate box art, see the [[Gallery:{{{gallery|{{PAGENAME}}#Box art}}}|game's gallery]].</nowiki></code>, and thanks to this game being an Arcade game, instead of a console game like most of the games in this wiki. | ||
To "solve" that, various ideas come to my mind. The first one would be to directly create a "Box art" section in the gallery and change the header image from a flyer to a box art, but I don't think that it would be ideal. Then I think about the option of doing something in the actual "[[Mario Bros. (game)]]" page (not the Gallery or infobox template pages) to change that text below the image, and thus changing "For alternate box art" to something like "For alternate 'main images'" or something like that, and changing the link of the Gallery either to the [[Gallery:Mario Bros. (game)#Promotional material|Promotional material]] or [[Gallery:Mario Bros. (game)#Hardware and box art|Hardware and box art]] sections, but I don't know if that can be done because that would depend if the infobox template itself has that option, which I don't think that it does.<br> So another option would be to edit the template to either modify the <code>|image=</code> parameter to make something like <code>|image|arcade=</code> for arcade games, or to directly add a parameter like <code>|imagefooter=</code> to write at will what the text of that image displays, but I am not sure about which option, nor know if there is a better option in any case. | To "solve" that, various ideas come to my mind. The first one would be to directly create a "Box art" section in the gallery and change the header image from a flyer to a box art, but I don't think that it would be ideal. Then I think about the option of doing something in the actual "[[Mario Bros. (game)]]" page (not the Gallery or infobox template pages) to change that text below the image, and thus changing "For alternate box art" to something like "For alternate 'main images'" or something like that, and changing the link of the Gallery either to the [[Gallery:Mario Bros. (game)#Promotional material|Promotional material]] or [[Gallery:Mario Bros. (game)#Hardware and box art|Hardware and box art]] sections, but I don't know if that can be done because that would depend if the infobox template itself has that option, which I don't think that it does.<br> So another option would be to edit the template to either modify the <code>|image=</code> parameter to make something like <code>|image|arcade=</code> for arcade games, or to directly add a parameter like <code>|imagefooter=</code> to write at will what the text of that image displays, but I am not sure about which option, nor know if there is a better option in any case. | ||
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== Split SMB3 "Mario Bros.", SMAS "Classic Mario Bros.", GBA "Mario Bros.", and/or "Luigi Bros." into their own articles == | == Split SMB3 "Mario Bros.", SMAS "Classic Mario Bros.", GBA "Mario Bros.", and/or "Luigi Bros." into their own articles == | ||
{{ | {{SettledTPP}} | ||
{{ProposalOutcome|passed|7-2-2-3-0|split all four}} | |||
We are covering numerous versions of the game in a very awkward mixed-together way. This proposal aims to rectify this by splitting the later ports and remakes that are included as sub-games in later releases (since there's no reason to split the ''many'' home console ports that every arcade game and their respective metaphorical grandma got in the early 80s). These are more akin to GBDK or (quite literally!) SMA in this regard, which we do have split; this also gets rid of the awkwardness of SMB3's page listing the miniscule amount of battle mode enemies amidst the main game's. There are multiple ways to go about this, depending on whether one wants to split the SMB3 and SMAS SMB3 versions from each other and whether to split ''Luigi Bros.'' at all since it's a title and P1 color change from NES ''Mario Bros.'' release 1. | We are covering numerous versions of the game in a very awkward mixed-together way. This proposal aims to rectify this by splitting the later ports and remakes that are included as sub-games in later releases (since there's no reason to split the ''many'' home console ports that every arcade game and their respective metaphorical grandma got in the early 80s). These are more akin to GBDK or (quite literally!) SMA in this regard, which we do have split; this also gets rid of the awkwardness of SMB3's page listing the miniscule amount of battle mode enemies amidst the main game's. There are multiple ways to go about this, depending on whether one wants to split the SMB3 and SMAS SMB3 versions from each other and whether to split ''Luigi Bros.'' at all since it's a title and P1 color change from NES ''Mario Bros.'' release 1. | ||
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'''Deadline''': April 22, 2022, 23:59 GMT | '''Deadline''': April 22, 2022, 23:59 GMT | ||
====Split all into four new articles ({{fake link| | ====Split all into four new articles ({{fake link|Mario Bros. (''Super Mario Bros. 3'')}}, {{fake link|Battle Game (''Super Mario All-Stars'')}}, {{fake link|Mario Bros. (Game Boy Advance)}}, and ''{{fake link|Luigi Bros.}}'')==== | ||
#{{user|Doc von Schmeltwick}} - Seems the most comprehensive | #{{user|Doc von Schmeltwick}} - Seems the most comprehensive | ||
#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} Per Doc von Schmeltwick. | |||
#{{User|Ray Trace}} We currently split different platform versions of games, I feel like this is the most consistent choice. | |||
#{{User|Results May Vary}} All four are different variations, so I would go with this option as well | |||
#{{User|Mustard Machine}} Per Doc von Schmeltwick. | |||
#{{User|Platform}} Second choice. | |||
#{{User|Archivist Toadette}} This sounds like a good alternative to [[Talk:Mario Bros. (stage)#Delete this article|the (useless) former Mario Bros. stage article]]. | |||
====Split | ====Split {{fake link|Classic Mario Bros.}} covering both ''Super Mario Bros. 3'' and ''Super Mario All-Stars'', {{fake link|Mario Bros. (Game Boy Advance)}}, and ''{{fake link|Luigi Bros.}}''==== | ||
#{{User|Hewer}} I think splitting a minigame remake of a minigame remake is going a bit far, but otherwise per proposal. | |||
#{{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}} - Per what LTL said in the comments. | |||
====Split {{fake link| | ====Split {{fake link|Mario Bros. (''Super Mario Bros. 3'')}}, {{fake link|Battle Game (''Super Mario All-Stars'')}}, and {{fake link|Mario Bros. (Game Boy Advance)}}, but NOT ''Luigi Bros.''==== | ||
#{{user|Doc von Schmeltwick}} - Secondary choice | #{{user|Doc von Schmeltwick}} - Secondary choice | ||
#{{User|Platform}} I disagree with creating a combined ''{{fake link|Classic Mario Bros.}}'' article since one of the two modes is exactly the same as {{fake link|''Mario Bros.'' (''Super Mario Bros. 3'')}}, but with updated graphics. I think it should be replaced with {{fake link|Battle Game (''Super Mario All-Stars'')}}, which is unique. Regarding LinkTheLefty's concern about the GBA article, we don't need to split the GBA modes into two separate articles as both are distinct from all other variations of MB. "Luigi Bros." is just the Arcade Classic Series version with a new title and a sprite swap. | |||
====Split | ====Split {{fake link|Classic Mario Bros.}} covering both ''Super Mario Bros. 3'' and ''Super Mario All-Stars'' and {{fake link|Mario Bros. (Game Boy Advance)}}, but NOT ''Luigi Bros.''==== | ||
#{{User|Somethingone}} Per proposal. | #{{User|Somethingone}} Per proposal. | ||
#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} Per [[#Super Mario Bros. 3 and Game Boy Advance|above]], which seemed like a clear-cut discussion. I'm hesitant to split "Classic Mario Bros." further, especially without giving the same treatment to the "Mario Bros. Classic" and "Mario Bros. Battle" modes of the Game Boy Advance version. As mentioned, the ''Super Mario All-Stars'' manual essentially treats the Battle Game as a different flavor of "Classic Mario Bros." rather than a wholly separate thing. Furthermore, I'd argue that "[[Mario Bros. (game)#Luigi Bros.|Luigi Bros.]]" has no business here when "[[NES Remix 2#Super Luigi Bros.|Super Luigi Bros.]]" exists, and should really be part of a different proposal altogether. | |||
#{{user|Doc von Schmeltwick}} - Per LTL. | |||
====Do nothing==== | ====Do nothing==== | ||
====Comments==== | ====Comments==== | ||
I'm a little confused. "Classic Mario Bros." in ''All-Stars'', which had the same Japanese name as in the original ''Super Mario Bros. 3'' manual, is used here as an umbrella term referring to both the "Mario Bros." game (there referred to as a Battle Mode) and the added Battle Game mode (accessible via title screen). So the options in which those two are split should probably be "Mario Bros. (''Super Mario Bros. 3'')" [or maybe "Battle Mode (''Super Mario Bros. 3'')"] and "Battle Game (''Super Mario All-Stars'')". Also, as minigames, they don't need to be italicized (see retro-style microgames). The above discussion didn't bring up "Luigi Bros.", which I really think should be paired with a "Super Luigi Bros." split more than this one. Can you add an option for splitting "Classic Mario Bros." and "''Mario Bros.'' (Game Boy Advance)", but not "Luigi Bros."? I feel that's most reflective of the above discussion. <small>Honestly I was pretty close to getting around to this soon, to be frank I think that got enough support to split via discussion since I believe the more contentious matter that could've been addressed later is whether or not the "Classic Mario Bros." modes and the Game Boy Advance "Mario Bros. Classic" and "Mario Bros. Battle" modes should be split further.</small> [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 10:13, April 8, 2022 (EDT) | |||
:That's options 2 and 4. Isn't the title screen-accessed mode the only MB in either SMB3 or SMAS, or is there a substantially different version in the main game's 2P mode? I've only single-playered it, so that possibility never even occurred to me. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 13:58, April 8, 2022 (EDT) | |||
::What are the proposed titles for the splits of "Classical Mario Bros." I am not in favor of that title as it sounds very confusing.--[[User:Platform|Platform]] ([[User talk:Platform|talk]]) 14:53, April 8, 2022 (EDT) | |||
:::"Classic Mario Bros." is the official title of the SMAS one according to the article. I guess we could change both SMB3's and SMAS's to "Battle Mode ([game])," though that wouldn't cover cooperative (which I see as more of a "game type A" and "game type B" thing). [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 14:57, April 8, 2022 (EDT) | |||
::''Super Mario All-Stars'' contains both the original ''Super Mario Bros. 3'' version accessed via world map panel in 2 Player and a new, revamped version on the title screen. It's basically a direct predecessor to the ''Mario Bros.'' for Game Boy Advance, sharing a lot of the same assets. The ''All-Stars'' manual groups them together under the name "Classic Mario Bros.", which is the name that the ''Super Mario Bros. 3'' (Japanese) manual used. Basically, ''All-Stars'' considers "Battle Game" to be an extension of the ''Super Mario Bros. 3'' minigame, similar to how the "Mario Bros. Classic" and "Mario Bros. Battle" modes are considered different flavors of the Game Boy Advance ''Mario Bros.'' Hope that makes sense. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 16:27, April 8, 2022 (EDT) | |||
I am in favor of an article that focuses exclusively on the ''All-Stars'' '''Battle Game''' in the main menu. There is no point in creating a combined article for both versions since the 2-player mode's version has the exact gameplay found in SMB3. Using the principle of [[MarioWiki:Once and only once|once and only once]], the more SMB3 faithful mode should only be given passing mention in {{fake link|Mario Bros. (''Super Mario Bros. 3'')}} and {{fake link|Battle Game (''Super Mario All-Stars'')}}.--[[User:Platform|Platform]] ([[User talk:Platform|talk]]) 14:53, April 9, 2022 (EDT) | |||
:Makes sense to me. Once again I was unaware SMAS had two substantially different versions since I never had a player 2. I have amended the titles in the options, which ultimately keeps the intent of the proposal the same with more concise wording. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 15:04, April 9, 2022 (EDT) | |||
:The problem is that the ''Super Mario Bros. 3'' one is literally a [[card]]-catching/turn-swapping minigame within the main game, and the "faithful" ''Mario Bros.'' screen is only one of several scenarios. There's also a ''Wrecking Crew''-esque screen, and another screen with coins and other objects flowing out of a pipe that doesn't really resemble anything else. Also, it's not really "once and only once" if the information remains spread across multiple articles. The point is to have a dedicated page to contain the content. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 15:10, April 9, 2022 (EDT) | |||
::OK so how should I word it then? [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 15:13, April 9, 2022 (EDT) | |||
:::Looks fine, Doc. I meant to direct that above you, but I think I misunderstood and thought Platform was saying to just split the Battle Game. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 15:21, April 9, 2022 (EDT) | |||
::::Just to clarify what I meant by faithful: The in-game SMAS mode is faithful to SMB3's mode, not the original arcade version. They have the same gameplay.--[[User:Platform|Platform]] ([[User talk:Platform|talk]]) 15:26, April 9, 2022 (EDT) | |||
:::::I see. I still think the "Mario Bros. Battle" mode is directly analogous to Battle Game. The gameplay of both has more in common with each other than the respective game's other mode: it has five rounds to win (same conditions; either first to get five coins or last one standing), the same round music and similar results screens, gimmick overlap, etc. It's the competitive counterpart to "Mario Bros. Classic" mode (which can also be played in multiplayer). All in all, the same arguments apply for the GBA ''Mario Bros.'' [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 16:06, April 9, 2022 (EDT) | |||
== Better images == | |||
Now the above proposal to split the article has passed, I suggest finding better images to differentiate the various versions. All images should have both brothers. The more peculiarities crammed into the picture, the more informative it is. | |||
*Arcade: An image with Shellcreepers and one other type of target enemy (preferably in different color forms), both types of fireballs, Freezie, and icicles | |||
*NES: same as above but without the icicles of course | |||
*SMB3 (both NES and in-game All-Stars): Spinies and Fighter Flies, fireballs, cards in inventory, and at least one loose card; images for all bonus rounds | |||
*All-Stars Battle Game: Spinies and one other target enemy, Koopa Troopa, ? Kinoko, Boos, one brother is super form with the other being small | |||
*GBA: Classic image should have 4 players with both POW blocks, both types of fireballs, Freezie, and icicles. 4-player Battle image should have Bowser, players in super and small forms, one player being held by another, one charging for a squat jump, and fireballs. 2-player Battle image should have a heart or starman and Bowser. | |||
*Luigi Bros.: similar to NES | |||
--[[User:Platform|Platform]] ([[User talk:Platform|talk]]) 11:26, April 23, 2022 (EDT) | |||
== So... == | |||
Why haven't the versions of Mario Bros. the proposal is going to split, been split already? {{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} 10:01, March 30, 2023 (CST) | |||
:I would do it but there are some things holding me back. First, I would like better images as I mentioned above. The current ones don't convey the uniqueness of each iteration. Second, the [[Gallery:Mario_Bros. (game)#Game Boy Advance|GBA version is missing a sprite for the Star]]. It's a very specific sprite that is different from the one used in the main game(s). I can't get a clean rip of it at the correct resolution. I don't want to use a "no image available" placeholder. Finally, [[bin]] needs to be split but it requires a vote. The proposal could be quite complicated as there are many different ways to split it. I'm also too busy to monitor the vote.--[[User:Platform|Platform]] ([[User talk:Platform|talk]]) 12:52, March 31, 2023 (EDT) | |||
::Ok. I came back to the game page, and I saw that the GBA version is now split, but still needs work, as it's a stub. 1 thing I'm confused about is that apparently there was a standalone version? I get there being it in the Mario Advance games and Superstar Saga (GBA), but standalone? How come I've never heard of it? {{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} 12:37, September 27, 2023 (CST) | |||
:::Now there's a page for Luigi Bros. & Battle Game (Super Mario All-Stars). Also, there's a much needed proposal happening now for [[bin]]. {{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} 12:44, November 3, 2023 (CST) | |||
::::There was no standalone version, that was from old vandalism that went undetected for ten years.--[[User:Platform|Platform]] ([[User talk:Platform|talk]]) 21:47, November 3, 2023 (EDT) | |||
== Atari 8-bit versions == | |||
{{Talk}} | |||
It has come to my attention that people seem to have regarded the {{wp|Atari 8-bit family|Atari 8-bit}} port (Atari 400/800, Atari XL systems, Atari XE, etc) of ''Mario Bros.'' as the same thing as the port for the Atari 5200. [https://youtu.be/VDpmMaVbXyw?si=Ad9AEpqRwSzZGOID It's not the same thing]. I think the idea of the two versions being the same stemmed from the fact that there was going to be an Atari 8-bit port released in 1984 that was based on the 5200 version, but that one was ''never released'', and, as far as I can tell, unlike the Apple II and Commodore 64 versions by Atarisoft, ''never leaked'' either; the Atari 8-bit port that was ''actually released'' in 1988 was based closer on the arcade version, and for instance features [[Icicle]]s, which the 5200 port doesn't have. | |||
But my point is, because certain parts of this wiki has treated the Atari 8-bit version as the same thing as the Atari 5200 version, that means we basically ''don't have a single image or sprite of the Atari 8-bit port that actually was released in 1988''. And as far as I can tell, no one has actually ripped sprites for the game either (and looking for the Atari 8-bit version on the internet will show you results of not only the released 1988 version, but ''also'' the 5200 port due to the aforementioned confusion). So I was wondering if someone could help on this issue: find a rom of the 1988 Atari 8-bit port and an emulator, rip some sprites, take some screenshots and upload them here. {{User:Arend/sig}} 07:42, March 31, 2024 (EDT) | |||
:Small update: It does seem like we at least have ''some'' sprites and screenshots from the Atari XE version, which to my knowledge ''is'' the 1988 Atari 8-bit version; the colors from those sprites and screenshots seem to be slightly off from what I've seen in gameplay footage, and even from the rom and emulator I have found myself, though. Would still like some sprite rips, since I have no idea how to rip them myself. {{User:Arend/sig}} 10:14, March 31, 2024 (EDT) | |||
::Small question, should we also have sprites/screenshots from the unreleased Atari 8-bit port or not? {{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} 12:31, April 3, 2024 (CST) | |||
:::That really depends if the unreleased version is leaked like the Apple II and Commodore 64 versions, and if so, whether or not it ''is'' the same as the Atari 5200 version. If both are correct, then there's no real need to upload sprites and screenshots of that unreleased port; what's important though, is that it needs to be clarified that those are from an unreleased Atari 8-bit port and ''not'' from the 1988 one (something that wasn't made clear at all before this whole thing came to my attention). {{User:Arend/sig}} 18:17, April 10, 2024 (EDT) | |||
::::So what I'm getting here is 4 possibilities. 1: The unreleased version is NOT leaked, but we get enough that we know it's the same as the Atari 5200 version. No uploading. 2: The unreleased version is NOT leaked, but we get enough that we know it's different. I don't know what we would do in this situation. 3: The unreleased version is leaked, but it's the same as the Atari 5200 version. No uploading. 4: The unreleased version is leaked, but it's different. Then upload. {{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} 18:42, April 11, 2024 (CST) | |||
:::::Basically, yeah. With possibility 2 in specific though, I feel it's more of a "we don't upload because we ''can't'' upload" situation. {{User:Arend/sig}} 16:18, April 12, 2024 (EDT) | |||
::::::Ok. {{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} 16:43, April 12, 2024 (CST) | |||