Talk:Bowser's Minions: Difference between revisions

Talk:Bowser's Minions (edit)

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Doc von Schmeltwick

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 ==Rename==
-{{talk}}
 Judging by the [[Scrapbook (Super Mario RPG for Nintendo Switch)|scrapbook]] in Super Mario RPG's remake, it seems the "Koopa Troop" is being renamed to "Bowser's Minions", the same term used in, er, Bowser's Minions. I'm thinking it will soon be time to move this page, if it isn't already, unless there is a recent usage of the "Koopa Troop" name I'm forgetting. But even then, it seems like the new name is here to stay. [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 20:26, November 3, 2023 (EDT)
 :The most recent usage of the name "Koopa Troop" that I'm aware of is Bowser Jr.'s Journey from 2019. Bowser Jr. says it in the scene after [[Extra Spice]]. {{User:Swallow/sig}} 20:39, November 3, 2023 (EDT)
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 ::::::::::::::::Paper Jam did. {{User:Swallow/sig}} 09:23, November 23, 2023 (EST)
 :::::::::::::::::Right, ''Paper Jam''. Looking at the [[list of Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam quotes|quotes page]] shows that they may have started redistributing the phrase "Bowser's minions" there to refer to Bowser's army. Hmm. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 09:43, November 23, 2023 (EST)
+::::::::::::::::::Well, yes, ''Paper Jam'' used "Bowser's Minions" as a translations for 「クッパ軍団」, you can see this by comparing Starlow's line [https://youtu.be/8ykRcEIwHX4?si=TRtRZgWM14g5MGe0&t=1540 here] with the [https://youtu.be/9V3e33RwAO8?si=3a1MYEaFepTx1I0N&t=1455 corresponding line in Japanese]. It's worth noting how "Koopa Troop" is a literal translation of "Kuppa gundan", with the caveat that "Kuppa" was translated as "Koopa" when the corresponding Western term should have been "Bowser". In this sense the new translation is more in line with the Western terminology, with the caveat that "Bowser's Minions" itself was the term used for the Koopalings in British English before the reintroduction of the "Koopalings" term - that happened in Paper Jam, by the way, which means that in terms of script there is no internal ambiguity.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 22:57, December 9, 2023 (EST)
+:::::::::::::::::::All right, that convinces me that "Bowser's Minions" isn't a one-off/mistake, so I can agree to a move - as long as we keep track of the previous names used at the time, that is. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 07:53, December 10, 2023 (EST)
 ::::::::::::::::: It should also be noted that while BJJ has Bowser Jr. saying the "Koopa Troop" in a cutscene, Bowser (Melee)'s description says "Minions" [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 09:04, November 24, 2023 (EST)
+Personally unsure on this at the moment. [[User:RosalinaFanboi777|RosalinaFanboi777]] ([[User talk:RosalinaFanboi777|talk]]) 13:51, November 30, 2023 (EST)<br><br>
+I think Bowser's Minions would be a more fitting name. It describes them much better. Bowser hasn't been referred to strictly as "Koopa" in the west since Mario 3. [[User:Mikan-chan|Mikan-chan]] ([[User talk:Mikan-chan|talk]]) 09:05, December 2, 2023 (EST)
 == Hear me out: Their motive ==
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 :::いままで われら カメいちぞくを じゃまものあつかい しおってからに
 :::As for what that last sentence means, I dunno, something to do with treating the turtle tribe as monsters? [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 06:23, November 30, 2023 (EST)
+::::More like treating them as a nuisance. [[User:PaperSplash|PaperSplash]] ([[User talk:PaperSplash|talk]]) 17:20, November 30, 2023 (EST)
+::::Translation anyone? [[User:Jackjolt1|Jackjolt1]] ([[User talk:Jackjolt1|talk]]) 21:46, December 3, 2023 (EST)
+:::::It's roughly the same as the English line. Of note is it uses "kame-ichizoku" (turtle tribe), meaning "Koopas" in this case refers to [[Koopa (species)|all the turtles]] rather than the Koopa Troop. Here's a rough translation:
+:::::''The children of the Mushroom World are in trouble because their wishes can no longer be fulfilled.''
+:::::''Such good luck!''
+:::::''Until now, the Turtle Tribe has been treated as a nuisance.''
+:::::[[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 22:18, December 3, 2023 (EST)
+::::::So does this refer to the way the Mushroom people treated all Koopas for attacking the Mushroom Kingdom in the first place or for an offscreen action before that? [[User:Jackjolt1|Jackjolt1]] ([[User talk:Jackjolt1|talk]]) 22:27, December 3, 2023 (EST)
+:::::::No way of knowing, unfortunately. If I had to hazard a guess, though, the "treating as a nuisance" implies it's because the Koopas keep invading. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 22:29, December 3, 2023 (EST)
+== Rename proposal ==
+{{SettledTPP}}
+{{ProposalOutcome|passed|18-0|rename}}
+Time to get right down to it. Per the above discussion, the original Super Mario RPG was the first time the "Koopa Troop" name was used. However, it is a game that's pretty notorious for lots of translation disrepancies, further evidenced by Mister Wu's comment about it being a possible transliteration. In the game's remake, this was one of many names changed, this case to "Bowser's Minions" as has been used in many prior games way more often than "Koopa Troop". Although there have been several other games that used "Koopa Troop", the latest (that I'm aware of) being [[Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story + Bowser Jr.'s Journey]] in one line of dialogue, I think by this point "Bowser's Minions" has by far become the more recognisable name.
+'''Proposer''': {{User|Swallow}}<br>
+'''Deadline''': January 5, 2024, 23:59 GMT
+===Support===
+#{{User|Swallow}} I was on the fence myself, but now leaning towards this.
+#{{User|SolemnStormcloud}} Per proposal and my comment above.
+#{{User|Sparks}} Per all.
+#{{User|Camwoodstock}} By this point, this seems to be Nintendo's preferred name for Bowser's army. If the fact that the weird side-mode in the Superstar Saga was literally named after them and was called ''Bowser's Minions'' didn't clue us in, the fact that they renamed them in the SMRPG remake to Bowser's Minions when that game was the original thing to popularize the "Koopa Troop" nickname definitely sells it for us. ;P
+#{{User|Tails777}} Per proposal
+#{{User|Biggestman}} Per all. I never liked when names were only 1 letter off from other names anyways.
+#{{User|Mushroom Head}} Per all. That moment you search Koopa Troop and click the first page it shows, but it is in fact Koopa Troopa may well be the worst moment ever.
+#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} Koopa Troop is a more unique name, but in the end, Bowser's Minions is more straightforward.
+#{{User|PaperSplash}} Per proposal, Camwoodstock and my own comment about the usage of "Koopa Troop" in later games being a potential case of citogenesis.
+#{{User|PrincessPeachFan}} Per all.
+#{{User|Sdman213}} Per all.
+#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per all.
+#{{User|Blinker}} Per proposal.
+#{{User|Mikan-chan}} Per all.
+#{{User|FanOfRosalina2007}} I've personally heard the name "Koopa Troop" used more than "Bowser's Minions", but the name "Koopa Troop" is literally one letter off of the Koopa Troopa article, so I vote to change the name for the sake of convenience.
+#{{User|BubbleRevolution}} Per all.
+#{{User|Zootalo}} Per all.
+#{{User|TheUndescribableGhost}} It's the name that's currently getting used. Bowser's Minions may be mistaken for the Koopalings but the name Koopa Troop is now getting retired.
+===Oppose===
+===Comments===
+We should say something about the fact that the "Extra Spice" cutscene in BJJ has Bowser Jr. saying "Koopa Troop" but Bowser (Melee)'s description says "Minions". [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 10:10, December 23, 2023 (EST)
+== About some of them... ==
+Are we sure that enemies such as the Unagi/Maw-Ray or Sushi are directly affiliated to Bowser? --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 10:50, March 20, 2024 (EDT)
+==Redundancy==
+There's a gallery with the various members of the Minions...but we also have a table listing the members and member species. Should we delete one? [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 00:18, April 8, 2024 (EDT)
+:No, they're both useful. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 00:30, April 8, 2024 (EDT)