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Talk:Spiny: Difference between revisions
→Refer to The Super Mario Bros. Movie Spiny Shells as Spinies
(→Comments: i really want to know what you guys think of Pale Piranha. piranha plants were called that in exactly one game, and yet every time they're mentioned in the context of TTYD on the wiki, they're called "Pale Piranhas".) Tag: Mobile edit |
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== Refer to ''The Super Mario Bros. Movie'' Spiny Shells as Spinies == | == Refer to ''The Super Mario Bros. Movie'' Spiny Shells as Spinies == | ||
{{ | {{SettledTPP}} | ||
{{ProposalOutcome|passed|13-0|Refer to TSMBM Spiny Shells as Spinies}} | |||
{{quote2|Koopas! Goombas! Whatever '''those''' things are!|Bowser|The Super Mario Bros. Movie}} | {{quote2|Koopas! Goombas! Whatever '''those''' things are!|Bowser|The Super Mario Bros. Movie}} | ||
Here is one of the most baffling things I've seen this wiki do, and that's to refer to the Spinies from ''The Super Mario Bros. Movie'' as '''Spiny Shells'''. For context, ''this name does not even appear in the movie'' (in fact, the joke Bowser ''doesn't even know their name'') but rather, a single off-handed Tweet. Now, I'm not sure how the movie's Twitter account goes. Still, I'm pretty sure this is a case of circular reporting where someone who managed the account mistook their name. Spinies had tons of precedent up to that point of being called what we refer to them today. Now, the movie gives some creative liberties on names, notably [[Banzai Bill|Bomber Bill]]. Still, at least that appears in the movie, while Spinies don't get a name-drop. We have a habit of using names from other sources. Still, for something like this, we can chalk this up as a simple error and not what the Spinies should be called in the movie unless the sequel wants to call them that. [[Ptooie#Mario_Kart_8_Deluxe|Even Nintendo has made mistakes in Tweets when naming their subjects.]] We really shouldn't use apparent mistakes like this as their proper name. | Here is one of the most baffling things I've seen this wiki do, and that's to refer to the Spinies from ''The Super Mario Bros. Movie'' as '''Spiny Shells'''. For context, ''this name does not even appear in the movie'' (in fact, the joke Bowser ''doesn't even know their name'') but rather, a single off-handed Tweet. | ||
'''Edit 01/05/24:''' As it turns out, that's not the only instance as Koopa con Carne mentioned below. One Tweet states, "[https://twitter.com/supermariomovie/status/1645854665018429451 Spiny Shells we see you. #SuperMarioMovie is in theaters now - get tickets today!]" [https://www.facebook.com/supermariomovie/videos/theyre-spiny-shells-and-they-have-feelingssupermariomovie/741897647615718 Facebook] and [https://www.instagram.com/reel/CrgaGi5p4%20G/ Instagram] also called them that too. That does not necessarily change arguments that these are one-off instances, but now my proposal is a bit more accurate. | |||
Now, I'm not sure how the movie's Twitter account goes. Still, I'm pretty sure this is a case of circular reporting where someone who managed the account mistook their name. Spinies had tons of precedent up to that point of being called what we refer to them today. Now, the movie gives some creative liberties on names, notably [[Banzai Bill|Bomber Bill]]. Still, at least that appears in the movie, while Spinies don't get a name-drop. We have a habit of using names from other sources. Still, for something like this, we can chalk this up as a simple error and not what the Spinies should be called in the movie unless the sequel wants to call them that. [[Ptooie#Mario_Kart_8_Deluxe|Even Nintendo has made mistakes in Tweets when naming their subjects.]] We really shouldn't use apparent mistakes like this as their proper name. | |||
'''Proposer''': {{User|TheUndescribableGhost}}<br> | '''Proposer''': {{User|TheUndescribableGhost}}<br> | ||
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#{{User|Super Game Gear}} Per all. | #{{User|Super Game Gear}} Per all. | ||
#{{User|PrincessPeachFan}} Per all. It's clearly an error and given that their names were never said in the film ("Whatever those things are!"), move it. | #{{User|PrincessPeachFan}} Per all. It's clearly an error and given that their names were never said in the film ("Whatever those things are!"), move it. | ||
#{{User|Mario}} The social media folks are probably not that particular about the names they were giving Spinies so IMO don't trip over a trivial thing and just call these Spinies. | |||
#{{User|Swallow}} Per all | |||
#{{User|Koopa con Carne}} ''Fine.'' | |||
#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} I mean, they're more than just mere shells in there, right? | |||
#{{User|Killer Moth}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|Mushroom Head}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|ThePowerPlayer}} Per whatever those things are. | |||
====Oppose==== | ====Oppose==== | ||
#{{User|Koopa con Carne}} They were called "Spiny Shells" in at least two [https://twitter.com/supermariomovie/status/1645854665018429451 different] [https://twitter.com/supermariomovie/status/1651269921303674901 tweets] by the Mario Movie account, not just one. (EDIT: on [https://www.facebook.com/supermariomovie/videos/theyre-spiny-shells-and-they-have-feelingssupermariomovie/741897647615718 Facebook] and [https://www.instagram.com/reel/CrgaGi5p4_G/ Instagram] too!) That's not to mention that, to my knowledge, neither of these instances of a supposed error have been corrected, unlike the Wiggler Wednesday thing and Ptooie being confused for another enemy. At this point, there's technically more evidence to suggest the name was a genuine creative liberty than there is in favor of it being unintentional. Almost a year ago there was a discussion surrounding [[Talk:Construction Site Fight#Swap this article with Balloon Barrage: proposal edition|"Construction Site Fight"]], a level title from ''Donkey Kong Land'' that many found to be 99% erroneous, and even that discussion had users extremely divided given that the title itself was maintained in later official material; I'd say we have even less reason to meddle with Spiny's given name for the Mario movie. | <s>#{{User|Koopa con Carne}} They were called "Spiny Shells" in at least two [https://twitter.com/supermariomovie/status/1645854665018429451 different] [https://twitter.com/supermariomovie/status/1651269921303674901 tweets] by the Mario Movie account, not just one. (EDIT: on [https://www.facebook.com/supermariomovie/videos/theyre-spiny-shells-and-they-have-feelingssupermariomovie/741897647615718 Facebook] and [https://www.instagram.com/reel/CrgaGi5p4_G/ Instagram] too!) That's not to mention that, to my knowledge, neither of these instances of a supposed error have been corrected, unlike the Wiggler Wednesday thing and Ptooie being confused for another enemy. At this point, there's technically more evidence to suggest the name was a genuine creative liberty than there is in favor of it being unintentional. Almost a year ago there was a discussion surrounding [[Talk:Construction Site Fight#Swap this article with Balloon Barrage: proposal edition|"Construction Site Fight"]], a level title from ''Donkey Kong Land'' that many found to be 99% erroneous, and even that discussion had users extremely divided given that the title itself was maintained in later official material; I'd say we have even less reason to meddle with Spiny's given name for the Mario movie.</s> | ||
====Comments==== | ====Comments==== | ||
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:::If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, quacks like a duck, and has consistently been established by reliable sources as being, in fact, a duck, then there's nothing subjective or unencyclopedic about continuing to call it a duck just because a less reliable source mistakenly called it a goose on a certain occasion. I'm all for correcting mistakes ''if'' the greater context of material from the franchise as a whole makes it clear that it actually is a mistake. That's all I have to say on the matter. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 17:27, January 4, 2024 (EST) | :::If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, quacks like a duck, and has consistently been established by reliable sources as being, in fact, a duck, then there's nothing subjective or unencyclopedic about continuing to call it a duck just because a less reliable source mistakenly called it a goose on a certain occasion. I'm all for correcting mistakes ''if'' the greater context of material from the franchise as a whole makes it clear that it actually is a mistake. That's all I have to say on the matter. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 17:27, January 4, 2024 (EST) | ||
::::"I'm all for correcting mistakes ''if'' the greater context of material from the franchise as a whole makes it clear that it actually is a mistake." '''It doesn't.''' [[Piranha Plant#Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door|Name changes can happen on a whim and can even be isolated cases.]] That does not make them errors. The movie doesn't call them anything, but there are 2 (two) different social media posts, both published 2 weeks apart and across multiple sites, that use that name. I'm really sorry, man, but your conviction that it's an error is quite simply unfounded. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 17:35, January 4, 2024 (EST) | ::::"I'm all for correcting mistakes ''if'' the greater context of material from the franchise as a whole makes it clear that it actually is a mistake." '''It doesn't.''' [[Piranha Plant#Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door|Name changes can happen on a whim and can even be isolated cases.]] That does not make them errors. The movie doesn't call them anything, but there are 2 (two) different social media posts, both published 2 weeks apart and across multiple sites, that use that name. I'm really sorry, man, but your conviction that it's an error is quite simply unfounded. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 17:35, January 4, 2024 (EST) | ||
:::::I'm not sticking around for a debate, but I'll just point out Crowber's name usage in NSMB2 was agreed upon in [[Talk:Crowber|this proposal]]. {{User:Swallow/sig}} 21:12, January 4, 2024 (EST) | |||
I know this is a bit off-topic, but the Ptooie thing isn't necessarily a mistake. Not entirely, at least. According to [https://twitter.com/RipBlue_hime/status/1633675352655659008 this tweet], the internal name for the plant's model refers to it as a Stalking Piranha Plant (''TekutekuPackun''), so that's probably why the tweet called them that. Besides, according to the article, they "do not blow any items in Time Trials or when the item settings are not set on Normal Items", and Ptooie's main gimmick is blowing on things, not walking (not all of them even walk), unlike Stalking Piranha Plant. [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 17:23, January 4, 2024 (EST) | I know this is a bit off-topic, but the Ptooie thing isn't necessarily a mistake. Not entirely, at least. According to [https://twitter.com/RipBlue_hime/status/1633675352655659008 this tweet], the internal name for the plant's model refers to it as a Stalking Piranha Plant (''TekutekuPackun''), so that's probably why the tweet called them that. Besides, according to the article, they "do not blow any items in Time Trials or when the item settings are not set on Normal Items", and Ptooie's main gimmick is blowing on things, not walking (not all of them even walk), unlike Stalking Piranha Plant. [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 17:23, January 4, 2024 (EST) | ||
:From what I'm aware of, the main thing that differentiates a Stalking Piranha from a Ptooie is that occasionally, it stops walking and stretches out its neck for a couple moments, before it retracts its neck and start walking again. This is something the Piranha Plants in MK8's Riverside Park never do: they walk endlessly and keep items afloat by blowing on it, which only Ptooie does.<br>The internal filename is most likely where the confusion stems from (pun not intended), but it does make me curious what Nintendo of Japan called these Riverside Park Piranhas, since that would certainly add to it. {{User:Arend/sig}} 11:33, January 5, 2024 (EST) | |||
::[[Fire Stalking Piranha Plant]]s don't do the neck-stretch thing, they only walk and spit fireballs in an arc, which implies walking is the main trait of the Stalking Piranha Plant. Anyways, as for what Nintendo of Japan calls the Riverside Park plants, I tried looking but couldn't find anything. [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 12:38, January 5, 2024 (EST) | |||
My two cents? I don't mind either way for the "Spiny Shell" mention as long as it's made clearer to readers that it doesn't appear within the movie itself. We do that sometimes, where we say that "X is referred to in this game as Y", and then it cites a secondary source related to the game but not the game itself. I always thought that was a little odd. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 19:15, January 4, 2024 (EST) | |||