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Talk:Mega Mushroom: Difference between revisions
→Split pre-New Super Mario Bros. Mega and Mini Mushrooms from their post-New Super Mario Bros. counterparts, take 2
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==Green Mushroom== | ==Green Mushroom== | ||
Why is that green image of that mushroom is there if it has the own article. Isn't called the '''Super Mega Mushroom''' [[User:Princess Grapes Butterfly|Princess Grapes Butterfly]] 19:01, 11 March 2008 (EDT) | Why is that green image of that mushroom is there if it has the own article. Isn't called the '''Super Mega Mushroom''' [[User:Princess Grapes Butterfly|Princess Grapes Butterfly]] 19:01, 11 March 2008 (EDT) | ||
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==Split the Mario Party 4 Mega Mushroom from this Page== | ==Split the Mario Party 4 Mega Mushroom from this Page== | ||
{{SettledTPP}} | {{SettledTPP}} | ||
{{ProposalOutcome|failed|2-7}} | {{ProposalOutcome|failed|2-7|keep merged}} | ||
Currently, we have the Mario Party 4 and New Super Mario Bros. versions of the Mega Mushroom here. According to this Page, the Mega Mushroom's Japanese name is 巨大キノコ | Currently, we have the Mario Party 4 and New Super Mario Bros. versions of the Mega Mushroom here. According to this Page, the Mega Mushroom's Japanese name is 巨大キノコ | ||
(Kyodaikinoko, Huge Mushroom). This is possibly the NSMB version, because of the Japanese name of Mega Mario on [http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ds/a2dj/newmario/index.html this page of the Japanese NSMB site]. But according to [http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ngc/gmpj/new/index.html this page of the Japanese Mario Party 4 site], it isn't the same as the Mario Party 4 version (I guess), where the MP4 version is called デカキノコ (Dekakinoko (Deka is a Japanese word to describe something large)). As the appearances of both Mushrooms are also different (NSMB version is very huge and has a even bigger yellow cap (with red spots), MP4 version is normal-sized, and green-capped (with white spots)), and we've done several splits and merges because of the Japanese names before, I think this should be split as well. | (Kyodaikinoko, Huge Mushroom). This is possibly the NSMB version, because of the Japanese name of Mega Mario on [http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ds/a2dj/newmario/index.html this page of the Japanese NSMB site]. But according to [http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ngc/gmpj/new/index.html this page of the Japanese Mario Party 4 site], it isn't the same as the Mario Party 4 version (I guess), where the MP4 version is called デカキノコ (Dekakinoko (Deka is a Japanese word to describe something large)). As the appearances of both Mushrooms are also different (NSMB version is very huge and has a even bigger yellow cap (with red spots), MP4 version is normal-sized, and green-capped (with white spots)), and we've done several splits and merges because of the Japanese names before, I think this should be split as well. | ||
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==Split pre-''New Super Mario Bros.'' Mega and Mini Mushrooms from their post-''New Super Mario Bros.'' counterparts, take 2== | ==Split pre-''New Super Mario Bros.'' Mega and Mini Mushrooms from their post-''New Super Mario Bros.'' counterparts, take 2== | ||
{{ | {{SettledTPP}} | ||
{{ProposalOutcome|failed|9-13|Do not split}} | |||
While this proposal also concerns [[Mini Mushroom]], these two articles currently have identical issues and I think it is more than justified to cover them both in a single talk page proposal. | While this proposal also concerns [[Mini Mushroom]], these two articles currently have identical issues and I think it is more than justified to cover them both in a single talk page proposal. | ||
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'''Proposer''': {{User|Pseudo}}<br> | '''Proposer''': {{User|Pseudo}}<br> | ||
'''Deadline''': December 27, 2023, 23:59 GMT | '''Deadline''': <s>December 27, 2023, 23:59 GMT</s> <s>Extended to January 3, 2024, 23:59 GMT</s> Extended to January 10, 2024, 23:59 GMT | ||
===Support=== | ===Support=== | ||
#{{User|Biggestman}} Per proposal. These are pretty clearly not the same things, at least not in my eyes. | #{{User|Biggestman}} Per proposal. These are pretty clearly not the same things, at least not in my eyes. | ||
#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} I myself was conflicted about this. I'm not convinced either of them directly draw inspiration from the pre-NSMB ones. I think "Cursed Mushroom" is more likely to draw inspiration from Poison Mushroon than Mega and Mini, but i am not entirely sure here either. | #{{User|FanOfYoshi}} I myself was conflicted about this. I'm not convinced either of them directly draw inspiration from the pre-NSMB ones. I think "Cursed Mushroom" is more likely to draw inspiration from Poison Mushroon than Mega and Mini, but i am not entirely sure here either. You'd likely say i'm being disingenuous for calling this a coincidence, but the NSMB items are about as likely to have drawn inspiration from the MP ones as the YWW [[Ice Snifit|Snifit]]s drawing inspiration from the Superstar Saga ones. | ||
#{{User|Super Game Gear}} Per proposal and the others. | #{{User|Super Game Gear}} Per proposal and the others. | ||
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} We're a bit on the fence, but we think the fact that stuff like the Golden Mushrooms being split up already and these two items being outliers in that regard definitely leaves splitting as a lot more appealing to us. Unless we decide to take the radical stance that every instance of a Golden Mushroom should be merged together regardless of actual gameplay effect, we feel like doing this split is for the best in the name of consistency. | #{{User|Camwoodstock}} We're a bit on the fence, but we think the fact that stuff like the Golden Mushrooms being split up already and these two items being outliers in that regard definitely leaves splitting as a lot more appealing to us. Unless we decide to take the radical stance that every instance of a Golden Mushroom should be merged together regardless of actual gameplay effect, we feel like doing this split is for the best in the name of consistency. | ||
# {{User|PrincessPeachFan}} Different functions? Different Japanese names? Splitting time! | # {{User|PrincessPeachFan}} Different functions? Different Japanese names? Splitting time! | ||
#{{User|Mushroom Head}} Per all. Their counterparts are too different. | |||
#{{User|SmokedChili}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|DrippingYellow}} For consistency with the previously mentioned ''Mario Party'' [[Star (Mario Party series)|Stars]]. | |||
#{{User|BubbleRevolution}} Per all. Different Japanese names, different appearances, they're clearly not the same item, just items with a similar idea. | |||
<strike>#{{User|Pseudo}} Per proposal.</strike> | |||
===Oppose=== | ===Oppose=== | ||
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#{{User|Waluigi Time}} I don't see any value in a split. I won't argue against the MP4 and NSMB mushrooms being technically different from a development perspective, but both designs are conceptually the same item doing the same thing. At best, it's the exact same idea that different teams happened to come up with, and I would rather keep it all in the same place in that case, akin to subjects like [[Big Paragoomba]]. | #{{User|Waluigi Time}} I don't see any value in a split. I won't argue against the MP4 and NSMB mushrooms being technically different from a development perspective, but both designs are conceptually the same item doing the same thing. At best, it's the exact same idea that different teams happened to come up with, and I would rather keep it all in the same place in that case, akin to subjects like [[Big Paragoomba]]. | ||
#{{User|Tails777}} My stance on this subject remains unchanged from before. Per Waluigi Time. | #{{User|Tails777}} My stance on this subject remains unchanged from before. Per Waluigi Time. | ||
#{{User|Ninja Squid}} Per all. Furthermore, for my personal point of view, I would much rather keep items with a similar name together for ease of reading and searching than having them splitted apart, creating more of a mess to try and find what you are exactly looking for. For simplicity's sake, keep things together than having multiple pages for pretty much the same item. | |||
#{{User|Pseudo}} Upon seeing the counterarguments to this, particularly in the comments, I’m thinking that this proposal was always a mistake on my part. Apologies to all involved. That said, I will still take full responsibility for the proposal if it passes and I don’t think that splitting would be a ''complete'' mistake or disaster for the wiki, just something that is not really necessary and a bit overcomplicated. | |||
#{{User|MegaBowser64}} Per all. We don't need to have these split. They might be created differently but they are just different iterations of the same items. | |||
#{{User|Archivist Toadette}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|Sdman213}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|SolemnStormcloud}} Per all, if only so this proposal doesn't take over a month to end with no consensus. | |||
#{{User|Dark-Boy-1up}} It is not necessary to split up two items with the same name and general idea. Per all. | |||
#{{User|Mario}} Welp, I'll admit ''Mario Pinball Land'' did something useful for once. Per LinkTheLefty | |||
#{{User|Power Flotzo}} Per all. | |||
===Comments=== | ===Comments=== | ||
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:::I'd be called disingenuous for this, but i genuinely am not convinced either items have directly drawn inspiration from the Mario Party items in the slightest. If anything, this is less comparable to the "big" enemies, and more comparable to the [[Ice Snifit]]s. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 02:52, December 15, 2023 (EST) | :::I'd be called disingenuous for this, but i genuinely am not convinced either items have directly drawn inspiration from the Mario Party items in the slightest. If anything, this is less comparable to the "big" enemies, and more comparable to the [[Ice Snifit]]s. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 02:52, December 15, 2023 (EST) | ||
:::: I'm comparing it to the Special Shots from the Mario Sports games --meaning similar to Ice Snifits--. They share the same names but there's been no confirmation if they are supposed to be the same thing. [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 09:00, December 15, 2023 (EST) | :::: I'm comparing it to the Special Shots from the Mario Sports games --meaning similar to Ice Snifits--. They share the same names but there's been no confirmation if they are supposed to be the same thing. [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 09:00, December 15, 2023 (EST) | ||
I feel I still need some clarification as to what makes these two versions of the mushrooms functionally different. The only functional difference I can see is that one gives dice blocks for a board game while the other doesn't and if that's the case, we should theoretically be splitting the Golden Mushroom from the Super Mushroom, since that has the same functional difference and even more beyond that. The Golden Mushroom is not a power-up like the Super Mushroom, it isn't even the same color, the only similarities are they're both mushrooms and, as far as I'm concerned, the same name in Japan (I don't even know if the name is the same in other languages). Heck, the Golden Mushroom functionality even HAS a separate article in the form of the Super Shroom Orb, which is a far better place to cover the ''Mario Party'' information of the Golden Mushroom than the power-up article is. Considering how messy our coverage of the normal Mushroom is, I find it hardly useful to split hairs on this mushroom. {{User:Tails777/sig}} | |||
:The way I'm looking at it, functionally there is no difference whatsoever between the actual mushrooms. They're both items that turn the character who uses them into their mega/mini form. The only "difference" lies specifically with the forms themselves, and even that's stretching it a lot because it boils down to the difference in gameplay between party games and platformers. This proposal seems like it's just splitting hairs and going to confuse readers more than it helps. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 16:35, December 18, 2023 (EST) | |||
::I'm also getting that the name is different in Japan, which I also don't feel is strong enough because the name translates to Big/Giant Mushroom, both of which are just different forms of the word "Mega", meaning that the name is still virtually the same. So I still fail to see how or why this warrents a split. {{User:Tails777/sig}} | |||
:::I could see the idea that the NSMB item wasn't specifically created to invoke the MP4 item... but I fail to see why the MKAGP item should also be split since it has more in common on that front. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:48, December 18, 2023 (EST) | |||
::::I also agree that the NSMB item wasn't created/brought back as a result of ''Mario Party 4'', but I still don't think any of this is worth splitting hairs over. They all still just make the user giant/mini and all the differences hinge on, as Waluigi Time points out, a matter of game genre. {{User:Tails777/sig}} | |||
:::::I'd also like to add that the Ice Flower's appearance from volume 5 of Super Mario-kun almost definitely did not influence the current iteration being added to Partners in Time 13 years later, but we keep all of that on one page. (I think NSMBW also treated the Ice Flower as a new power-up even though it was already in two other games. In that case, it was that version of Ice Mario that was new, not the flower.) To be fair, the Japanese name is the same as far as we know and it basically kept the design, but an element-swapped Fire Flower is such a basic concept it'd be even weirder if they were different. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 12:23, December 19, 2023 (EST) | |||
:::::: OK, honestly, these are very strong arguments to me and I’m beginning to regret having created this proposal to begin with. These are not as fundamentally different as I may have thought, especially with the Arcade GP throughline. I may retract support on my own proposal here. The Ice Flower is what really got me here. {{User:Pseudo/sig}} 12:50, December 19, 2023 (EST) | |||
::::::: There's also the issue of the [[Super Mushroom]] in ''[[Super Mario 64 DS]]'' itself acting as a functional precursor to the Mega Mushroom, down to the forms they give being functionally near-identical. To say nothing of the [[Big Mushroom]], which also follows a similar function but remains split. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 16:26, December 26, 2023 (EST) | |||