Editing Talk:Mini Goomba

==Name Change?==
I looked in my Super Mario All-Stars Limited Edition booklet and looked at the enemies exclusive to SMB3. It says it's a Mugger Micro Goomba. I live in the American region, so is the Japanese name for this still Micro Goomba?
{{User:UltimatePetey/sig}}
:Yeah it says its called a Mugger Micro Goomba.

== Super Mario Galaxy ==
They are in SMG, add that bit.
:Why can't you? {{User|Yoshi876}}
I'm only new here :/, I only edit here sometimes so I don't really know advanced features.
Well I'll add it.

==Latest Appearance==
The latest appearance is in Super Mario Maker, when you shake a Goomba. I don't know how to add that without screwing the page up, so please add that fact. {{unsigned|GrammarNazi}}
:Done. - {{User:Walkazo/sig}} 18:52, 15 November 2015 (EST)

==Galaxy one resemble Galoombas?==
The Galaxy ones really don't look like Galoombas, they quite honestly look far more like olive-colored Goombos from Super Mario Land, due to having the same mushroom body structure, that is rounded instead of triangular like Goombas, while Galoombas have no stem, and have a light-colored muzzle. - {{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}} 19:36, 27 May 2017, CT
:They ''do'' look more like a [[Goombo]] than a [[Galoomba]]! That certainly looks like a better comparison. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 20:54, 27 May 2017 (EDT)

==Change to Mini Goomba?==
{{Talk}}
Micro Goomba was technically only used in Nintendo Power's "''Mario Mania''" guide before getting an offhand mention in ''Super Paper Mario''. Mini Goomba, meanwhile, seems to have been used in every guide for the ''New Super Mario Bros.'' games as well as the Prima Games guide for ''Super Mario Odyssey'' (and incidentally happens to be the repeating internal version). Even though Micro Goomba showed up once in in-game text, Mini Goomba is by far the most common and recent name. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 18:35, 18 November 2018 (EST)
:It's also somewhat recently been called "Small Goomba," it just seems a bit too inconsistent to make a definitive choice just yet, IMO. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 19:17, 18 November 2018 (EST)
::I actually think Small Goomba should be a separate subject since they're apparently not "real" Mini Goombas but rather regular Goombas under Kamek's spell. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 19:22, 18 November 2018 (EST)
:::Why would they be any different, though? They still behave like, well, Micro Goombas, and fight just like regular Goombas, except smaller. {{User:Toadette the Achiever/sig}} 19:41, 18 November 2018 (EST)
::::If in-game naming is what was holding Mini Goomba back, then I presume the article isn't Small Goomba for the reason I mentioned (and we've split things over being artificial or inauthentic before). Either way, I find it suspicious that (unhyphenated) Micro Goomba appears to have only been in two semi-obscure sources before being used in several sections of ''Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia'' despite having been mostly reestablished as Mini Goomba since 2006. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 20:32, 18 November 2018 (EST)

I'm intrigued by this splitting idea. However, I'd like to know the Japanese names given to them in SMRPG, each of the NSMB games, the ''Galaxy'' games, ''3D World'', and ''Odyssey'', see how they relate to our ''Mame'' and ''Chibi'' names, and see if they share any defining characteristics between them the others lack, given their ultimate behavior has been all over the place. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 21:36, 19 November 2018 (EST)
:''Super Mario RPG'' and ''Encyclopedia Super Mario Bros.'' list them as Mame Kuribō (Bean Goomba) ''except'' the ''Super Mario 64'' appearance is Chibi Kuribō (Small Goomba), which is also the name used in ''Paper Mario: Color Splash'', and a [https://twitter.com/mario_odysseyJP/status/907721756579786752 post] calls them Mame Kuribō for ''Super Mario Odyssey''.  This can mean that small enemies have naming inconsistencies like big enemies, the ''Super Mario 64'' developers simply forgot that a small Goomba already existed in a previous platformer (note that ''Encyclopedia'' doesn't give them their own ''Super Mario Bros. 3'' enemy entry and only mentions them in Paragoomba's description, which also happened in the Japanese ''Super Princess Peach'' glossary ["things" in the English version]), or Mame Kuribō and Chibi Kuribō are considered separate subjects. According to the ''Super Mario 64'' Player's Guide, Mario is changing his own size when he enters Tiny Island and Huge Island, meaning it's not really a tiny Goomba but rather Mario is huge, so you can say it's not an actual small Goomba similar to the magically-resized enemies in ''Color Splash''. ''Encyclopedia'' introduces all entries from ''Super Mario 64'' to ''New Super Mario Bros. Wii'' with the same line: 「小さなクリボー。」 (''A small Kuribō.''). Internally, it's <tt>KuriboMini</tt> in the ''Galaxy'' games and <tt>kuriboMini</tt> in others from ''New Super Mario Bros. Wii'' to ''Super Mario 3D World'', suggesting Mini Kuribō (Mini Goomba) - ''except'' in ''Super Mario 64 DS'' (<tt>KURIBO_S</tt> for small; contrast <tt>KURIBO_L</tt> for large) and ''Color Splash'' (<tt>as_btl_small_kuribo</tt>; contrast <tt>as_btl_big_kuribo</tt>). On a related note, ''Encyclopedia'' uses "chibi" for the small versions of Koopa Troopa and Fire Piranha from ''Super Mario 64'' (so the English version calls them "Micro Koopa" and "Micro Piranha Plant" respectively), and ''Color Splash'' uses it for the other small enemies and also uses the largely outdated Kyodai Kuribō (Grand Goomba) instead of Deka Kuribō (Big Goomba). [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 04:55, 23 November 2018 (EST)
::And even with that aside, Mini Goomba has a clear in-game source: ''[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgzTx9Ho1d4&t=53s NES Remix 2]'' (and Mame Kuribō in ''[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBwA45_F-KU&t=49s Famicom Remix 2]''). [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 04:25, 5 December 2018 (EST)
:::And that refers to the Pile-Driver variant. Should it be moved as well? [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 05:00, 5 December 2018 (EST)
::::We can go with "Mini Goomba (block)", or we can cite [[MarioWiki_talk:Naming#Make_an_exception_to_source_priority_for_articles_with_identical_names|this proposal]] and leave Pile Driver Micro-Goomba as-is for now. It's possible that it was just used in a generic sense. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 05:10, 5 December 2018 (EST)
:::::I'd support a renname. Some would have arguments, since we're only 4 to have discussed. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 05:38, 5 December 2018 (EST)
::::::Let me make sure I have this straight. We are for renaming Micro Goomba to Mini Goomba and Pile Driver Micro-Goomba to Mini Goomba (block), but not for splitting Small Goomba (which would be deemed  from ''Super Mario 64'' and ''Paper Mario: Color Splash'') from Mini Goomba? [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 07:28, 16 December 2018 (EST)
:::::::We can probably leave PDMG as-is, since like you said, it was likely a generic usage. If we split off small Goomba now, we'll have to rework every other big/small enemy as well. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 13:19, 16 December 2018 (EST)
::::::::Yes, I'm sure that's the case since I also spotted an instance of plain Micro-Goomba referring to the Pile Driver variant in the Nintendo Power guide. So if it looks like we're all on the same page, let's just rename Micro Goomba to Mini Goomba. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 19:15, 16 December 2018 (EST)
:::::::::Why can't i rename it to Mini Goomba? Normally, i CAN rename over redirect, and this time i can't. What's going on? Should we delete the redirect? {{unsigned|FanOfYoshi}}
::::::::::@Doc von Schmeltwick, we will rework on big enemies since the Cheep Chomp proposal failed (Same point as Waluigi Time's vote), and i asked you on your talk page that if we reconsider Ukikis and Grinders, we might as well do the same for big enemies. You said potentially for ''Kyodai Kuribo'' vs ''Dai''/''Deka Kuribo'' and ''Kyodai Pakkun'' vs ''Dai''/''Deka Pakkun'', but not in the case of Koopas.
:::::::::::{{unsigned|FanOfYoshi}}<br>Wait, Chibi Kuribo? I support splitting Chibi Kuribo from Mame Kuribo, as they arent as small as Mame Kuribo. Also, what are the [[New Super Mario Bros]] and [[New Super Mario Bros. 2]] internal filenames? This is how it should work: Koopa and Piranha should stay merged as they have no difference in behavior whatsoever, Goombas can be split as instead of being split in SMB3 when stomped (pun intended), they get defeated like a normal Goomba. Kyodai Hanachan can be split without any problem, as they are much larger than Deka Hanachan, and they don't serve as an enemy. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 06:36, 14 February 2019 (EST)
::::::::::::Should already be mentioned, and I think it's been decided not to split Chibi Kuribo from Mame Kuribo because that could set a precedent for the other resized enemies. Though for what it's worth, ''New Super Mario Bros. Wii'' was [https://tcrf.net/New_Super_Mario_Bros._Wii/Unused_Objects#Unusable_Objects originally] going to feature a second type of Mini Goomba. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 06:45, 14 February 2019 (EST)
:::::::::::::What about Kyodai Kuribo, which doesn't get split when stomped, and Kyodai Hanachan being very large, and serving as a platform, as you mentioned on my talk page? --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 06:48, 14 February 2019 (EST)
::::::::::::::I'd put Kuribo as a "no" (as there's been a lot of variance with them anyways) and Hana-chan as a "yes" (as Kyodai for it was a very distinct one-time deal). Anyways, I don't think NSMBW was going to have a "second" type so much as that type was replaced in the final, but not overwritten. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 06:56, 14 February 2019 (EST)
:::::::::::::::Deka Kuribo doesn't get split in ''Super Mario 64'', the ''Super Mario Galaxy'' games or the ''Super Smash Bros.'' series, nor does its tailed derivative. Also, [[Small Piranha]] has an article now because it was [[Talk:Piranha Plant#This is the Ultimate|properly named]] in ''Super Smash Bros. Ultimate''. The ''New Super Mario Bros.'' Wiggler is admittedly pretty different from Big Wigglers in the sequels, but Big Wigglers in ''Super Mario Galaxy 2'' and ''Super Mario Maker'' have different attributes to both, which may be a factor. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 07:14, 14 February 2019 (EST)
:::::::::::::::::You brought it up on my talk page earlier between what can coherently be split, which is IMO, splitting hairs, but if there are more proofs on that, they should stay merged. Regarding Chibi Kuribo, they're just normal-sized Goombas shrunk with Kamek's magic, not already small Goombas. And a question... Do Chibi Kuribo and Mame Kuribo share the same model between Super Mario 64 DS and New Super Mario Bros.? --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 12:45, March 30, 2019 (EDT)
::::::::::::::::::Do both Super Mario 64 DS and New Super Mario Bros. use the same model? Or is it a sprite in the latter game? Regarding Chibi Kuribo, i'm not sure that it'd affect other sized enemies. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 09:48, April 5, 2019 (EDT)