Talk:Bull's-Eye Banzai

Why are these not simply Banzai Bills? Phoenix Rider 02:55, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Because, they are red and go up to target mario sometimes. GalladeBlades

Is this name official? Vent (talk) 16:38, 21 September 2013 (EDT)

Merge this page with Banzai Bill or Bull's-Eye Bill

We know that the Prima guide for New Super Mario Bros. Wii used the term "King Bill" for any larger subspecies of Bullet Bill; this includes Banzai Bill and its Mario-seeking variant, and King Bills (who received the same name officially 5 years and a half after the release of the game). This term/name ISN'T the official name for the enemy.

I guess that we have to merge the page (or start a proposal) with one of the two pages on the title until they find an official name. Nonetheless, I think they won't reappear since it's currently the only New Super Mario Bros. Wii-debuting enemy that doesn't reappear, and it has already passed 6 years after the release of the game. --James Blonde (talk) 18:17, 23 December 2015 (EST)

Wrong

The source was wrong. I have the Prima guide and it does not call them King Bills, it just calls them Banzai Bills. In fact the first mention of a King Bill in that guide is referred to as a Banzai Bill though after that it calls them by their real name so could we remove the source seeing as it's false. The RPG Gamer (talk) (edits) 23:18, 31 October 2016 (EDT)

This is a screenshot of the New Super Mario Bros. Wii eGuide. Seems pretty clear-cut to me. Hello, I'm Time Turner. 23:28, 31 October 2016 (EDT)

Article Title

Why is this article titled "King Bill (New Super Mario Bros. Wii)"? King Bills (the real ones) also first appear in this game! -YoshiFlutterJump (talk) 13:46, 22 April 2017 (EDT)

This King Bill appears to be erroneously named. The "real King Bill" looks and behaves vastly different than this one. King Bill's name is confirmed in Puzzle & Dragons: Super Mario Bros. Edition and appears in more than one game, but for this one, all we have to go on is a Prima guide. 13:55, 22 April 2017 (EDT)

Rename this page

This talk page section contains an unresolved talk page proposal. Please try to help and resolve the issue by voting or leaving a comment.

Current time: Friday, May 3, 2024, 22:50 GMT

This page should be renamed. This name is not official and only comes from a Prima guide. I even checked MarioWiki:Naming and it said that Prima guides are only valid sources if it was released before Super Mario Galaxy. This game was released two years later. And, even though we do have articles with unofficial names, it's too confusing having two articles titled "King Bill". So I propose we rename this article to Homing Banzai Bill under the {{conjecture}} template. If you think the article should be moved to a different name, please specify in the designated section.

Proposer: YoshiFlutterJump (talk)
Deadline: July 15, 2017, 23:59 GMT

Rename to Homing Banzai Bill

1. YoshiFlutterJump (talk) See my reasoning above. I think this is the best option, as other names like "Bulls-Eye Banzai Bill", "Giant Bulls-Eye Bill", "Banzai Bulls-Eye Bill", and "Flashing Banzai Bill" are all really silly, and, like I said above, this article should not stay "King Bill".
2. Yoshi the SSM (talk) Homing Banzai Bill sounds good to me. I am for the change because the name doesn't make sense, as King Bill originally appeared in New Super Mario Bros. Despite appearing in other games, this doesn't make sense.
3. Wildgoosespeeder (talk) I believe that Prima made a mistake identifying this Bill. Homing Banzai Bill has a more intuitive name. Banzai Bill are the same size as this red big Bullet Bill. King Bills are way bigger. Red varieties home-in on the player.

Move to other name

1. Wildgoosespeeder (talk) See Bull's-Eye Bill for better naming schemes. Maybe Missile Banzai Bill or Bull's-zai Bill for a couple of creative names.

Leave as is

1. Time Turner (talk) The policy's misleading. I don't know why it says that the guides are only valid post-SMG, but Prima guides (also BradyGames and Versus, should they come up) are perfectly valid so long as they've been officially licensed by Nintendo. There are plenty of guides that were released before Super Mario Galaxy that are currently being used as valid sources (see: Super Mario Sunshine, Luigi's Mansion. It is correct to say that Prima guides do not take precedence over Nintendo Power, the Player's Guides, and the game itself, barring exceptions where the Prima name actually prevents confusions, but without any other official sources, Prima is perfectly valid as the top source.
2. TheHelper1000 (talk) Same reason as Time Turner, there's no other source for a different name.
3. TheFlameChomp (talk) Per Time Turner.
4. Yoshi the SSM (talk) This can be changed to King Bill (Red) or King Bill (Flashing) after this proposal, but this proposal is about changing it from King Bill to something else. So, the "leave as is" option is the one that I have to choose, as it is the only option that keeps King Bill. Any information officially release will override whatever name we choose if it's wrong, and there is a low chance to choose the right one. However, I also like the name "Homing Banzai Bill". This is why I am voting for two options.
5. Alex95 (talk) Per Time Turner.
6. SuperYoshiBros (talk) Per Time Turner.
7. Shy Guy on Wheels (talk) Per Time Turner (talk)
8. Owencrazyboy9 (talk) Per Time Turner. The point he makes is really good and the policy hasn't been changed yet to allow any Prima game guides instead of just those released before Super Mario Galaxy.
9. Niiue (talk) Changing vote, per Time Turner and the comments.
10. Ultimate Mr. L (talk) As much as I think Prima is incorrect, policy states it is a valid source and it would therefore be irresponsible for me to vote otherwise no matter how much I would love to see an enemy named Bulls-zai Bill. However, I do think the title should be changed, both because it's a mouthful and because both King Bill variants appear first appear in NSMBW. I'm thinking King Bill (Homing).
11. Luigi 64DD (talk) Per all, especially Ultimate Mr. L. I don't think giving it another identifier is necessary until it returns in another game.

Comments

@Time Turner: Post-SMG guides are not valid because they were made after the Nintendo Power Player's Guides were discontinued. -YFJ (talk · edits)

I'm well aware of the circumstances, but there's plenty of precedence that directly contradicts what you're saying. The Prima guides are officially licensed and have been constantly used for citations when other sources failed to provide anything. I do not see why that should be ignored. Hello, I'm Time Turner. 01:08, 1 July 2017 (EDT)

Couldn't the naming policy be updated to reflect any Prima game guide instead of those before Super Mario Galaxy? – Owencrazyboy9 (talk) 01:11, 1 July 2017 (EDT)

A revision was suggested on the forums, but for whatever reason it wasn't put into effect. Hello, I'm Time Turner. 01:17, 1 July 2017 (EDT)

Regardless of the validity of "King Bill" as a name for this thing, "(New Super Mario Bros. Wii)" is a useless identifier for this thing since the actual King Bill also debuted in NSMBWii. 01:21, 1 July 2017 (EDT)

That's a valid point. Would "King Bill (red)" be acceptable? It wouldn't my be the first time we used colours as identifiers. Hello, I'm Time Turner. 01:25, 1 July 2017 (EDT)

It's not red. It flashes red and black. -YFJ (talk · edits)

@TheHelper: In the course of main articles, one would not use the full title of the article within the body, only "King Bill". The full title is only necessary for links, and it can easily be hidden. Considering how many articles have some sort of identifier attached to them, that logic just doesn't make sense, at least not to justify moving an article from a sourced name to an unsourced name. Hello, I'm Time Turner. 01:33, 1 July 2017 (EDT)

Okay, I'm just saying that when I'm looking at this article's main title it simply looks odd. Although I wouldn't mind it being "King Bill (Red)" as you said earlier. TheHelper1000 (talk) 1:49, 1 July 2017 (EDT)

Again, there are plenty of other articles that have identifiers, and we're not about to move them to unofficial names just because they seem unwieldy. Hello, I'm Time Turner. 01:59, 1 July 2017 (EDT)

"If a source is not present, keep moving down the list until you have found the right way to name the article, and only create a conjectural title as a last resort." The Prima guide is pretty much the closest thing we have for an official source (it would fall under number 4, as it's officially licensed by Nintendo), so I don't see why this needs to be moved to a conjectural title. I agree with 7feetunder that it could use a different identifier, though. Mario JC 04:20, 1 July 2017 (EDT)

You guys don't get it, do you? Let me clear up my proposal:

• We can't have two King Bills because it's too confusing.
• This name is unofficial and, in a way, conjectural.
• Homing Banzai Bill makes a lot more sense than the current title or any other name.
• We can't call it King Bill (red) because it's not red.

So that's my proposal in a nutshell. Feel free to switch to the support side. Actually, I'd prefer it if you switched sides. YFJ (talk · edits)

• We can have two King Bills if they have the same name
• The name is from an official source.
• Homing Banzai Bill is unofficial, while King Bill is official.
• We can call it King Bill (flashing) like Yoshi the SSM (talk) suggested.
  Shy Guy on Wheels^(T|C|S) 11:03, 1 July 2017 (EDT)

It's exactly as Koopa Bro says. We have two articles titled Chap from the same game (1, 2), three articles titled Hammer Bro (1, 2, 3), six articles titled Beetle (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6), seven articles titled Ghost (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7), and plenty of other examples. Saying that we can't have two articles with the same time is completely false and clearly proven false by the countless examples on the website. Saying that the name is unofficial is also completely false and again clearly proven false by examples on the wiki, as I have covered above. Hello, I'm Time Turner. 11:19, 1 July 2017 (EDT)

And another example are the two Piranha Plant pages. Piranha Plant and Piranha Plant (Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door). They look very much alike but it was a small detail that made us split the two. And also, these aren't homing Bills, they don't chase the player.YoshiGo99 11:25, 1 July 2017 (EDT)

Did you guys not see the World 9 page for this game? That is what I mean by "too confusing". I'm pretty sure that's not the only page like this. YFJ (talk · edits)

That really doesn't resolve any of the other issues that we brought up, namely that the name is definitely official and that it is definitely possible to have two articles of the same name. For the articles in which both King Bills appear, other identifiers can be used, like "the large King Bill" or "the homing King Bill" or whatever else is appropriate. Hello, I'm Time Turner. 18:02, 1 July 2017 (EDT)

The fact of the matter is that King Bill is the official name for both enemies. Both names come from Prima, but the bigger one is more frequent, and is later "officialized" in Puzzle & Dragons: Super Mario Bros. Edition, so it doesn't need an identifier. According to MarioWiki:Naming#Acceptable sources for naming, this article should remain, as it is an official-as-official-gets name. 18:08, 1 July 2017 (EDT)

Prima was just using "King Bill" to refer to any large Bullet Bill, including King Bills, Banzai Bills, and this. Prima was most likely using it as a placeholder. The current article title is as conjectural as any name because the source is invalid (see proposal). YFJ (talk · edits)

If you feel like getting technical, Prima guides after Super Mario Galaxy are actually official, as they entered a partnership deal with Nintendo in 2007, after Nintendo Power stopped making guides. The name is legit, it has a reference, as far as I can tell, there's nothing conjectural about this.

Additionally, MarioWiki:Naming is not saying anything after 2007 is unofficial. The point is in numbered order, from most valid to least. Everything there is official. The Nintendo Power point even contradicts your statements, saying "For games released after 2007, this source can no longer be used since this source is currently discontinued.", so Prima is the most valid source for names in terms of guides from then on. 01:38, 2 July 2017 (EDT)