Editing Talk:Recorder

== 5 whistles? ==
Somebody once told me he saw someone get 5 whistles. Does anyone know anything about this?
[[User:Zoidberg|Zoidberg]] 09:34, 18 April 2007 (EDT)

:Sounds like a lie. There are only three Warp Whistles in the game. -- [[User: Son of Suns|Son of Suns]]

I thought so to, but I thought I'd check. I though maybe it was some sort of game genie thing or something.[[User:Zoidberg|Zoidberg]] 09:54, 18 April 2007 (EDT)

== Is the fourth Warp Whistle real? ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFHfXNAcHVk

This video is a response to the alleged Fourth Warp Whistle trick from the Japanese release, and comes to the conclusion that the World 5-1 glitch will not yield a Warp Whistle. This glitch may need further testing because it may not be legit. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] 16:42, 14 March 2012 (EDT)

== More Whistles? ==

Here is a letter from Princess Peach received at the end of Ice Land:

Greetings,
I am well. Please retrieve the '''Magic Whistle''' hidden in the darkness at the end o the '''Third World'''. I have enclosed a jewel that helps protect you.
Princess Toadstool.

Is this a mistake or are there more than three Warp Whistles? Also, in the letter received at the end of Giant Land, the princess says "The thief who stole the Whistle has escaped to the east side of the '''Sand Dunes'''." However, any level with sand is in Desert Land, two worlds earlier! So... how come Mario gets this hint after he can't make use of it? Is there some way to go backwards? [[User:Ultimate Mr. L|Ultimate Mr. L]] ([[User talk:Ultimate Mr. L|talk]]) 21:02, 6 September 2016 (EDT)
:Third World can be referring to the third level, that's what I think. For the latter, I believe if Mario can't go backward, it's meant as a hint if the player replays the game. {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 21:38, 6 September 2016 (EDT)

== Warp Whistle or Recorder ==
I want to move this, but I think it should be discussed about before moving. The main reason I want to move this is the warp whistle makes an appearance in [[Paper Mario: Color Splash]] in the [[Super Mario Bros. 3]] style. It becomes a recorder if squeezed. I think a move makes more sense. I want to hear from some people before doing so. {{User:Yoshi the Space Station Manager/sig}} 14:24, 1 October 2016 (EDT)
:I disagree, since the name Warp Whistle comes from [[Super Mario Bros. 3]], and remains so throughout all of the games remakes such as [[Super Mario All-Stars]] and [[Super Mario Advance 4]], which are all main series games, while [[Paper Mario: Color Splash]] is just a single spin-off game. {{User:3D Player 2010/sig}} 14:36, 1 October 2016 (EDT)
::''Paper Mario: Color Splash'' also shows the Recorder in its 8-bit sprite when it first appears, and it is dedicated with a "From the Developers!" note in the digital manual. I think it makes perfect sense - [http://legendsoflocalization.com/the-legend-of-zelda/items/#whistle-while-you-work it's actually the original name,] but the Magic/Warp Whistle terminology lost that connection. Technically, the article should be renamed anyway since "Warp Whistle" seems to come from a later guide and "Magic Whistle" is directly used in one of the princess letters and overall more consistent, though "Recorder" should really get title priority. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 18:30, 1 October 2016 (EDT)

The requirements for the number of people for me to make a definite decision is 10 users including myself. Patrollers and Administrators count as 2, while Proprietor and Bureaucrat count as 5. {{User:Yoshi the Space Station Manager/sig}} 12:32, 10 October 2016 (EDT)

:Uhh... there's no need to think about a points system like that. And high ranks do not mean more weight in discussions. Just create a TPP if there are mixed opinions about your suggestion.

:{{User:YoshiKong/sig}} 13:12, 10 October 2016 (EDT)
::I put up the point system because this is how they will impact my decision. I respect the decision of authority. I do not want to do a TPP yet. I think it can be settled with this. But if I decide to do a talk page proposer, the number of people that vote will be based on a regular TPP and not like what I did here. {{User:Yoshi the Space Station Manager/sig}} 13:21, 10 October 2016 (EDT)
:::If you want to do this, start a TPP. You're not allowed to do your own system. - [[User:Reboot|Reboot]] ([[User talk:Reboot|talk]]) 13:23, 10 October 2016 (EDT)
::::To be honest, I only put that there because it didn't have a very high attention. I didn't know why. 10 people seemed easier to based off of than what is there. {{User:Yoshi the Space Station Manager/sig}} 13:52, 10 October 2016 (EDT)
I have a few reasons why I don't want to create a TPP.

1. I don't have enough information to create it (this doesn't mean I don't know how to create a TPP). Although, someone else could create it with the proper information.

2. It is not really necessary. Basically, because of this section, I don't feel it is necessary to create a TPP.

3. There are 7 proposals out there, 6 of which are TPP. Just because this is a TPP doesn't mean that it will have more attention there than here. I know that I can have two proposals running at the same time, but that is not the issue here.

4. There is no exact time restraint. While I want to have a census quickly, I am ok with it taking a while. Also, it will be easier to move or not to move if I can execute it right away.

{{User:Yoshi the Space Station Manager/sig}} 14:22, 10 October 2016 (EDT)

:::::I would say create a separate page for Recorder and mention it here. But I have limited knowledge of the connection between the two, so I could be wrong.<br>
:::::{{User:Ultimate Mr. L/sig}} 22:17, 10 October 2016 (EDT)
::::::The warp whistle sprite is in the Super Mario Bros. 3 style, but if squeezed, it will be a recorder like the one in real life. The music that plays when the thing card is used is the Super Mario Bros. 3 warp zone music. {{User:Yoshi the Space Station Manager/sig}} 22:26, 10 October 2016 (EDT)

Basically, this is asking if Warp Whistle, Magic Whistle, or Recorder is the most common modern name as all three have a confirmed source(s). {{User:Yoshi the Space Station Manager/sig}} 10:11, 4 November 2016 (EDT)

==Rename Warp Whistle to Recorder or Magic Whistle==
{{Settled TPP}}
{{Proposal outcome|passed|11-1-3|rename to recorder}}
There is a discussion above about this, but to reiterate, the term Warp Whistle only seems to have had official use in the ''Super Mario All-Stars'' guide, whereas all ''Super Mario Bros. 3'' instruction booklets - including the one that came with ''Super Mario All-Stars'' and the standalone NES version guide - refer to it as Magic Whistle, as does the princess' sixth letter in the game. However, the item shows up again in ''Paper Mario: Color Splash'' under the name Recorder, first as its sprite form before being converted into a card, and is also referred to as such in the digital manual's developer's notes. Incidentally, the name is actually a direct reference to the item's original appearance as one of the usable treasures shown in the [http://legendsoflocalization.com/the-legend-of-zelda/items/#whistle-while-you-work opening demo] of ''The Legend of Zelda''.

To summarize:

'''Recorder''' - This is simultaneously the original and latest in-game name, and in strict accordance with [[MarioWiki:Naming#Acceptable_sources_for_naming|policy]], should be the one used as the article title.

'''Magic Whistle''' - This name came from the ''Super Mario Bros. 3'' instruction booklets, so it theoretically should be the name most associated with the ''Mario'' series, and [[MarioWiki:Naming#Naming_an_article|policy]] does mention "most commonly used English name" to consider.

'''Warp Whistle''' - This name is only known to officially come from a ''Super Mario All-Stars'' guide; however, for what it's worth, it seems to be widely-used in popular culture according to the [[Warp_Whistle#References_in_other_media|references in other media]] section of the article.

'''Proposer''': {{User|LinkTheLefty}}<br>
'''Deadline''': August 31, 2017, 23:59 GMT

===Rename to Recorder===
#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Toadette the Achiever}} This '''is''' the current name used in ''Paper Mario: Color Splash''.
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} "Recorder" is the most recent name used.
#{{User|Time Turner}} Per all.
#{{User|Alex95}} - Per all.
#{{User|Yoshi the SSM}} You have my support. Per all and above section.
#{{User|SmokedChili}} Per all.
#{{User|Chester Alan Arthur}} Look we can't let nostalgia overcome our own policies. If this is the name used in the vast majority of situations then that's what we should use.
#{{User|Baby Luigi}} Most recent name gets priority, end of story.
#{{User|7feetunder}} Most recent in-game name with the bonus of also being the original name. Even though "Magic Whistle" ''did'' actually appear in one of Peach's letters in ''SMB3'', #1. it isn't the most recent name, and #2. ''SMB3'''s translation was obviously phoned-in anyway ([[Goomba's Shoe|Kuribo's Shoe]], [[Lakitu's Cloud|Jugem's Cloud]], [[Dark Land|Castle of Koopa]]).
#{{User|Skuchi037}} Most recent name, end of story. This was why the article on Atomic Boos was called [[Big Boo (Paper Mario series)]] and not Atomic Boo, like it probably should have been. Per all.

===Rename to Magic Whistle===
#{{User|Ultimate Mr. L}} While the sprite is reused in ''Color Splash'', the function is not.
** ''Super Mario Bros. 3'' - The item warps Mario/Luigi to the [[Warp Zone (Super Mario Bros. 3)|Warp Zone]], allowing them to choose from a selection of worlds to travel to.
** ''Paper Mario: Color Splash'' - This time, it's a [[Battle Card (Paper Mario: Color Splash)|Battle Card]] used offensively, a totally different function from in ''SMB3''.
:I don't believe the two appearances should be treated as the same thing and find it clear that the appearance in ''Color Splash'' is a ''reference'', not an appearance. Therefore, I think the article should be split into {{fake link|Magic Whistle}} (as it is called that ''in-game'' in ''SMB3'' (see my comment above)) and {{fake link|Recorder}} (covering the card in ''Color Splash'')

===Keep as Warp Whistle===
#{{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}} The "Clone Jump" sticker uses the Goomba's Shoe, but it's different. Admittedly, so is the function, but most widely-used official name is stated to be used under MarioWiki:Naming.
#{{User|Niiue}} Per Doc von Shmeltwick.
#{{User|3D Player 2010}} the Warp Whistle name is simply too iconic for any other option to be considered viable.

===Comments===
This seems rather cut-and-dry to me. "Recorder" is the most recent name, plus it's been used in-game. I know there's some consideration to be given for the most popular names, but that mainly for when Prima calls the Swoopers a Bat again. {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 21:19, 17 August 2017 (EDT)
:On that note, recent games call Swoopers "Swoops," which makes me want to bang my head against a wall. And SMG Swoopers are Enigmas, apparently. {{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}} 20:20, 17 August 2017 (CT)
::Arbitrary names changes: the bane of wikis everywhere. {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 21:22, 17 August 2017 (EDT)
::"And SMG Swoopers are Enigmas, apparently." wait what [[User:Niiue|Niiue]] ([[User talk:Niiue|talk]]) 01:34, 18 August 2017 (EDT)
:::I believe the Japanese Mario Encyclopedia listed them as such, was it Mario JC I head it from? I can't remember.... {{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}} 02:20, 18 August 2017 (CT)
::::I found about it on the Japanese Wikipedia, asked Mister Wu about it, and he confirmed it. [[User:SmokedChili|SmokedChili]] ([[User talk:SmokedChili|talk]]) 03:12, 19 August 2017 (EDT)

(Meant to type this up last night, but router got turned off) I have a different solution to all of this. Can "Recorder" just be split? While it still summons tornadoes, it doesn't actually have a warping function, instead being used offensively. {{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}} 16:14, 19 August 2017 (CT)

@SmokedChili: On that note, I really don't think it's deliberate, mainly because of the obvious copyright reasons. Enigma also has an entirely different way of attacking where it spontaneously splits into many smaller bats, and the ''Super Mario Galaxy'' bat's internal name in both games matches Swoop's Japanese romanization. Why, of all the things that could return from ''Super Mario RPG'', this one very obscure and fairly unremarkable enemy, and if this is so, why not make it more recognizable? It just doesn't add up; it makes more sense to connect it to ''[http://megaman.wikia.com/wiki/Batton Mega Man]''. At best, [http://i.imgur.com/4B6NHtp.jpg it] [http://i.imgur.com/elnhv1F.jpg is] [http://i.imgur.com/LLHeN6l.jpg another] [http://i.imgur.com/6NQjIZW.jpg unintentionally] [http://i.imgur.com/FhX8XMN.jpg reused] [http://i.imgur.com/Fgnh4Jw.jpg name.]

@Doc von Schmeltwick: No, because the cards in ''Paper Mario: Color Splash'' already have their [[Battle Card (Paper Mario: Color Splash)|own article]], and one split is asking for all the others to be split. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 10:17, 21 August 2017 (EDT)

Shouldn't we keep Warp Whistle as a redirect? Plenty of people refer to it as that... ''[[User:Camwood777|<font color="red">~Camwood777</font>]]'' 15:04, 21 August 2017 (EDT)
:Of course we'll keep it as a redirect. {{User:7feetunder/sig}} 15:08, 21 August 2017 (EDT)

OK, what? This entire proposal is based off of a bunch of speculation that goes beyond my standards. How in the world can you say that the Warp Whistle and the Recorder are the same exact item? You CAN'T! {{User:Skuchi037/sig}} 15:59, 21 August 2017 (EDT)
:I can't find an image of it here, but from what I've seen on YouTube, the Warp Whistle and Recorder look the same to me. It also appears to act as a homage to ''Super Mario Bros. 3'', the game the Warp Whistle first appeared in, by playing the same ''Zelda'' tune and ''SMB3'' melodies. The effects may be different, but it appears to be very obviously one and the same. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 16:03, 21 August 2017 (EDT)
:Items changing effects happens from time to time (e.g. [[Coconut]]s in the first two ''Paper Mario'' games, several capsules/[[Orb]]s from ''Mario Party 5'', ''6'', and ''7''). That does not automatically make it a different item. Furthermore, a Recorder split is not viable unless we give other Things their own articles. {{User:7feetunder/sig}} 16:12, 21 August 2017 (EDT)
::In ''Paper Mario: Color Splash'', during Green Energy Plant's ''Super Mario Bros. 3''-themed course, the original item - complete with 8-bit graphics also ripped straight from the same game - can be found and squeezed into a usable card. It literally is the same item in this case, unlike the Clone Jump sticker which depicts Kuribo's Shoe artwork but isn't directly the same. It honestly comes across as a naming correction to me since the connection to ''The Legend of Zelda'' was somewhat lost in translation back in ''Super Mario Bros. 3''. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 16:20, 21 August 2017 (EDT)
:::That is still too much speculation for me. You can't say that the 8-bit item is the Warp Whistle because there's no proof of that. {{User:Skuchi037/sig}} 16:26, 21 August 2017 (EDT)
::::The proof is in the references...? {{User:Alex95/sig}} 16:27, 21 August 2017 (EDT)
::::Yes I can, and there is. They have the same design, they play the same tune, and they both summon a tornado. The only difference is the gameplay function, which as I said previously, is on its own, not valid grounds to consider it a different item. You might as well claim that the Rupees on [[Hyrule Circuit]] aren't actually Rupees, after all, when have Rupees ever made karts go faster? {{User:7feetunder/sig}} 16:53, 21 August 2017 (EDT)
::::Actually, YES IT CAN. If they both serve completely different functions and share speculative similarities, then they are most definitely NOT the same item. The Rupees in Hyrule Circuit are Rupees '''because Nintendo made it like that. Of course they would put Rupees in a stage confirmed to be completely based off of the Legend of Zelda franchise.''' {{User:Skuchi037/sig}} 17:03, 21 August 2017 (EDT)
:::::Again, you see it become a card with your own eyes, and the name makes more sense given its history. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 17:08, 21 August 2017 (EDT)
:::::"Of course they would put Rupees in a stage confirmed to be completely based off of the Legend of Zelda franchise." Yet an item that looks exactly like an item from ''SMB3'' from a stage completely based off of ''SMB3'' is not actually that item from ''SMB3''? Your line of logic is completely lost on me. {{User:7feetunder/sig}} 17:14, 21 August 2017 (EDT)
:::::Oh, WHAT? ...Awww, damn it, I didn't think that. I'm sorry, you're right. {{User:Skuchi037/sig}} 17:17, 21 August 2017 (EDT)

My point still stands that it is the most iconic name. If somehow a game came out and "Monty Mole" was once again mistranslated as "Chubby," we wouldn't move it to that. "Warp Whistle" is very iconic to this item, and that still stands. I'll bring up the example of [[Mad Scienstein]] to back me up here. {{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}} 16:41, 21 August 2017 (CT)
:No but if Chubby was the most consistent name for Monty Mole then I would support moving it over to Chubby. Like if the next 10 games started calling them Chubby should we ignore that because a name is more "iconic." Plus these aren't even the same situations because Monty Mole is the name that shows up in multiple games whereas Warp Whistle shows up in a single player's guide. {{User|Chester Alan Arthur}}
::I don't buy the "iconic name" argument. I don't care how many people call the [[Spiny Shell (Mario Kart)|Spiny Shell]] from ''[[Mario Kart]]'' the "Blue Shell", we're not moving it to that unless Nintendo starts calling it that as well. While "Warp Whistle" ''does'' have a proper source, it is, according our naming hierarchy, the least relevant of this item's names, and it apparently has only been referred to as such in one player's guide, while both "Magic Whistle" and "Recorder" are both backed by in-game text. If you want an example of an official name, take Kuribo's Shoe. The mistranslation was well-known enough to get referenced in ''[[Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story]]'', but we don't call it Kuribo's Shoe. We call it [[Goomba's Shoe]], it's corrected name. {{User:7feetunder/sig}} 18:09, 21 August 2017 (EDT)