Editing Talk:Cog (obstacle)

==Merge [[Cog (Donkey Kong Country 3: Dixie Kong's Double Trouble!)]] and [[Cog (Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door)]] into this page and move to "Cog"==
{{SettledTPP}}
{{ProposalOutcome|failed|4-9|Do not merge}}
This proposal concerns merging the Cogs from ''[[Donkey Kong Country 3: Dixie Kong's Double Trouble!]]'' and from ''[[Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door]]'' into the [[Cog (obstacle)]] article. While Cogs do appear in various shapes and sizes and have differing roles, they are still the same generic object. This page has an issue where it only covers Cogs in the form of being obstacles, not in a wider variety of contexts, even though all of them being the same generic subject, cogs, just with roles essential to gameplay in the [[Super Mario (franchise)|''Super Mario'' franchise]]. [[Fireball]]s have had even more roles throughout the ''Super Mario'' franchise, yet the Fireball page covers them as not only objects that can be thrown by Fire Mario, but also as an item in ''[[Mario Kart: Double Dash!!]]'', and as moves in the role-playing games.

[[Cog (Super Mario Land 2: 6 Golden Coins)]] is exempt from this proposal, since it's completely different from the cogs that are mechanical object. Should this proposal pass, the Cog disambiguation page will be overwritten, and we'll use the About template on the merged "Cog" page to link to the Cogs from ''[[Super Mario Land 2: 6 Golden Coins]]''.

Cogs in the ''Super Mario'' franchise have no traits setting them apart from their generic counterparts, aside from perhaps an unusual color or texture.

'''Proposer''': {{User|Super Mario RPG}}<br>
'''Deadline''': April 24, 2024, 23:59 GMT

===Support===
#{{User|Super Mario RPG}} Per my points given above.
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} - This is definitely long overdue. This is a pretty generic subject and having these all haphazardly split up just muddies the waters.
#{{User|MegaBowser64}} E pluribus unum! Cogs unite!
#{{User|PrincessPeachFan}} Generic subject.
===Oppose===
#{{User|Nintendo101}} I think there is a substantive difference between general gear-shaped objects and a more narrowly-defined (and recurring) gear-shaped platform.
#{{User|Axis}} The first two items have enough distinction to stand out on their own, and the third one is an object
#{{User|Archivist Toadette}} There's nowhere near enough overlap for the subjects to be merged into one article. I say we instead make the "obstacle" cog the primary subject.
#{{User|Pseudo}} Per Archivist Toadette. There's a big difference between these two key items and a large cog-shaped obstacle. I agree with turning the obstacle cog into the primary subject.
#{{User|Arend}} I feel it'd make more sense if we only merged the DKC3 and PMTTYD cogs into {{fake link|Cog (item)}}, instead of also involving this article that doesn't act like a collectible at all.
#{{User|Tails777}} Per all.
#{{User|YoYo}} one is a collectable, one is a collectable for something different, and one is an obstacle. it'd be like if [[Mushroom]] and [[Mushroom Platform]] were merged together. it makes zero sense.
#{{User|EvieMaybe}} per Arend, or per Archivist Toadette as a secondary vote.
#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} Per all.

===Comments===
What about [[Gear (Super Mario Odyssey)]]? [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 19:45, April 10, 2024 (EDT)
:I think we can leave that one for now. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 21:03, April 10, 2024 (EDT)
:You can argue the gear platforms are different from cog obstacles since they're set horizontally instead of vertically, i.e. navigating the teeth (going by the images). [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 11:48, April 12, 2024 (EDT)

Also, in regards to [[Fireball]], there's also [[Fireball (obstacle)]] that is (however inexplicably and inconsistently) split from it... [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 20:17, April 10, 2024 (EDT)
:Good catch, thank you. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 21:03, April 10, 2024 (EDT)

@ Archivist Toadette - Now that you mention it, merging the other cogs to this article probably makes more sense, but we still do want to merge the articles... Should we add a new option for merging with Cog (obstacle) as the primary baseline? {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 11:03, April 11, 2024 (EDT)
:Wasn't merging the DKC3 and PMTTYD cogs to this article (and then removing the obstacle identifier to make it about cogs in general) already what this proposal was aiming for in the first place? {{User:Arend/sig}} 19:24, April 11, 2024 (EDT)

In the opposition’s favor, I will also mention that, though previously unmentioned on the Cog (obstacle) article, the Cog key item in ''[[Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door]]'' actually coexists with and is highly distinct in purpose from large cog platforms in the X-Naut Fortress, which I think is strong reason to keep them split. {{User:Pseudo/sig}} 16:15, April 11, 2024 (EDT)
:The article seemed to be missing more than I thought; ''Super Mario Land 2'' apparently ''also'' has cog obstacles/platforms that differ from the [[Cog (Super Mario Land 2: 6 Golden Coins)|object also called "cog"]], which the article doesn't really have a section for yet. {{User:Arend/sig}} 19:07, April 11, 2024 (EDT)
::Side note: is there really no better English name available for [[Cog (Super Mario Land 2: 6 Golden Coins)|this """cog"""]]? It's not really a cog at all (rather, a ball-shaped lift attached to chains), and several other languages don't refer to it as such either (the Japanese name's a portmanteau of "escalator" and ''tama'', "ball", the Italian name similarly translates to "lift sphere", and I believe the [https://archive.org/details/super-game-boy-spieleberater/page/n13/mode/2up German guide] calls it a transport platform).<br>EDIT: [[:File:NPDec1992P48.jpg|Page 48 of the December 1992 issue of ''Nintendo Power'']] refers to these """cogs""" as "balls on chains" - perhaps it can be moved to {{fake link|Ball on chains (''Super Mario Land 2: 6 Golden Coins'')}}? The ''actual'' cogs (the platform/obstacle ones) are referred to as gears in ''Nintendo Power'', too, btw. {{User:Arend/sig}} 19:38, April 11, 2024 (EDT)
:::I would support renaming the "cog" from SML2 to ball and chain. Might be worth raising in that article's talk page. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 20:29, April 11, 2024 (EDT)
::::I can second this. {{User:Pseudo/sig}} 20:37, April 11, 2024 (EDT)
:::::I third it. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 11:48, April 12, 2024 (EDT)
::::::[[Talk:Ball on chains|Alrighty]]. {{User:Arend/sig}} 12:04, April 12, 2024 (EDT)
: To me, this is a generic subject, pure and simple. Yes, they have different gameplay functions, but they're literally just cogs. [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 09:00, April 12, 2024 (EDT)

@Super Mario RPG: I like Arend's suggestion of merging the two small collectable Cog items while keeping the giant platforming obstacles separate. It's not too late to add that as another option. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 11:48, April 12, 2024 (EDT)
:I also agree to that! [[User:SolemnStormcloud|SolemnStormcloud]] ([[User talk:SolemnStormcloud|talk]]) 13:26, April 12, 2024 (EDT)
::I would support an option like that too. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 16:25, April 12, 2024 (EDT)
:::I probably wouldn't vote for it, but yes, I do agree that it should be an option. {{User:Archivist Toadette/sig}} 14:00, April 13, 2024 (EDT)

I also recently found out that gears (as collectable items) also have a role in [[Gear Up|a mission]] in ''[[Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon]]''. Could also be added along with the DKC3 and PMTTYD cogs. {{User:Arend/sig}} 09:49, April 21, 2024 (EDT)