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Are these the same Monty Moles that give away prizes in MLSS? – [[User Talk: | ==Superstar Saga== | ||
Are these the same Monty Moles that give away prizes in MLSS? – [[User Talk:Knife|Spike]][[File:Spike Shield.png]] | |||
No, they are not...at least it hasn't been confirmed. Also the Monty Moles in MLSS are much smaller. <span style="font-family:verdana; color:#red;"><font size="5">'''[[User:Paper Jorge|P]]'''aper '''Jorge'''</font></span><small> ( [[User talk:Paper Jorge|Need to tell me something? Go to my talk page.]]<tt>·</tt>[[Special:Contributions/Paper Jorge|Contributions]]<tt>·</tt></small>) 21:21, 19 October 2006 (EDT) | No, they are not...at least it hasn't been confirmed. Also the Monty Moles in MLSS are much smaller. <span style="font-family:verdana; color:#red;"><font size="5">'''[[User:Paper Jorge|P]]'''aper '''Jorge'''</font></span><small> ( [[User talk:Paper Jorge|Need to tell me something? Go to my talk page.]]<tt>·</tt>[[Special:Contributions/Paper Jorge|Contributions]]<tt>·</tt></small>) 21:21, 19 October 2006 (EDT) | ||
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== Morty Mole == | == Morty Mole == | ||
Prima Game | Prima Game's strategy guide for ''Super Mario 3D Land'' refers to these guys as '''Morty Mole'''; not sure if that's worth a mention. --{{User:Mercury Mech/sig}} 03:17, 30 November 2011 (EST) | ||
:Prima's made naming mistakes before so best not to take this too seriously, unless they're referred by the same name elsewhere. But either way I added it to the trivia section just in case. -[[User:FourPaperHeroes|<span style="color:green">'''Four'''</span> <span style="color:grey">'''Paper'''</span>]] [[User talk:FourPaperHeroes|<span style="color:green">'''Heroes'''</span>]] [[File:FourPaperHeroes.jpg|35px]] 03:22, 30 November 2011 (EST) | :Prima's made naming mistakes before so best not to take this too seriously, unless they're referred by the same name elsewhere. But either way I added it to the trivia section just in case. -[[User:FourPaperHeroes|<span style="color:green">'''Four'''</span> <span style="color:grey">'''Paper'''</span>]] [[User talk:FourPaperHeroes|<span style="color:green">'''Heroes'''</span>]] [[File:FourPaperHeroes.jpg|35px]] 03:22, 30 November 2011 (EST) | ||
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==Split Morty Mole from Mega Mole (again)== | ==Split Morty Mole from Mega Mole (again)== | ||
{{ | {{SettledTPP}} | ||
{{ProposalOutcome|passed|14-6|split}} | |||
Deciding to propose this again, as I honestly feel like these two being lumped together is honestly inaccurate. Were I active on the wiki at the time of the last proposal (see above), I would have supported it. | Deciding to propose this again, as I honestly feel like these two being lumped together is honestly inaccurate. Were I active on the wiki at the time of the last proposal (see above), I would have supported it. | ||
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#{{User|SmokedChili}} Per all. | #{{User|SmokedChili}} Per all. | ||
#{{User|Yoshi876}} I agree with all of this reasoning. | #{{User|Yoshi876}} I agree with all of this reasoning. | ||
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|Toadette the Achiever}} You know, now that I thought about a little more, maybe I'm making myself look more like an idiot. This may be a borderline case (considering there is official evidence on both sides of the argument), but I actually want [[Magnet Sparky]] split from [[Spark]] in a similar borderline case, so per all. | |||
#{{User|Yoshi the SSM}} Switching because (a) {{User|Porplemontage}} supports the split and I respect that support (basically per all), (b) without this passing, the fourth proposal would be, well, too much to handle if not done according to Porplemontage's suggestion which I am worry about a little, and (c) too many supporters. I was waiting until the last day to change to support due to this last reasoning, as too many opposers would have cause this not to past. | |||
====Oppose==== | ====Oppose==== | ||
<s>#{{User|Toadette the Achiever}} Literally nothing more has been brought up since the last time this was proposed. '''To those supporting:''' Just because there's nothing confirming a mere name change '''''does not automatically mean there is enough information to split them'''''. 2D enemies may behave differently when in 3D environments, hence why we don't split the 2D and 3D Goombas just because one aimlessly wanders and the other charges. And no, [[Bat (Super Mario Galaxy)|Bat (''Super Mario Galaxy'')]] isn't a good example, since they clearly behave differently from Swoops. Magmaarghs also clearly behave differently to Blarggs, and look drastically different anyways (the latter is not even entirely composed of lava in the TV series, nor in their official game artwork). That's not to mention that '''we have [[Parabuzzy]] merged with [[Para-Beetle]]'''. Lastly, how will we cover the information from ''Super Mario Maker''? Really, this should just be a multi-option proposal. Per all.</s> | |||
#{{user|Wildgoosespeeder}} For the same reasons as the two failed proposals. | #{{user|Wildgoosespeeder}} For the same reasons as the two failed proposals. | ||
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} The differences can easily be explained by the 21-year gap between appearances. Additionally, their first appearance was a 2D game, and they reappeared in a 3D game. This wouldn't be the first time enemies had different behaviors, appearances, and even names from either of those. | #{{User|Waluigi Time}} The differences can easily be explained by the 21-year gap between appearances. Additionally, their first appearance was a 2D game, and they reappeared in a 3D game. This wouldn't be the first time enemies had different behaviors, appearances, and even names from either of those. | ||
#{{User|Pseudo-dino}} Per all. | #{{User|Pseudo-dino}} Per all. | ||
#{{user|Mario Kart DS Fan}} Per All. | #{{user|Mario Kart DS Fan}} Per All. | ||
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i'm More on Board The Split Because Mega Mole and Morty Mole Look, act and are named Different. [[User:LUIGIRULES71|LUIGIRULES71]] ([[User talk:LUIGIRULES71|talk]]) 12:10, 23 February 2018 (EST) | i'm More on Board The Split Because Mega Mole and Morty Mole Look, act and are named Different. [[User:LUIGIRULES71|LUIGIRULES71]] ([[User talk:LUIGIRULES71|talk]]) 12:10, 23 February 2018 (EST) | ||
@Waluigi Time What about [[Boom Boom]]? He Was Gone For What Seemed Like Forever But Kept his name and is still a 3-Hit Pushover. The Behavior is Different To Suit The now 3D Game. also What about [[ | @Waluigi Time What about [[Boom Boom]]? He Was Gone For What Seemed Like Forever But Kept his name and is still a 3-Hit Pushover. The Behavior is Different To Suit The now 3D Game. also What about [[Stretch]]? Sure their not in a 3D Game But They Were Gone Longer Than even Boom Boom But Their Behavior and name are still the same. The Morty Moles Look, Behave and are named Differently. also Those Sections They appear in Look To narrow and therefore 2D. [[User:LUIGIRULES71|LUIGIRULES71]] ([[User talk:LUIGIRULES71|talk]]) 12:37, 23 February 2018 (EST) | ||
:You're making the mistake of interpreting my comment as "every enemy that disappears changes", all I said was "enemies that disappear sometimes change". Also, Boom Boom did get changes, his colors were updated and he lost his spiked shell in the 3D games. --{{User:SuperYoshiBros/sig}} 12:57, 23 February 2018 (EST) | :You're making the mistake of interpreting my comment as "every enemy that disappears changes", all I said was "enemies that disappear sometimes change". Also, Boom Boom did get changes, his colors were updated and he lost his spiked shell in the 3D games. --{{User:SuperYoshiBros/sig}} 12:57, 23 February 2018 (EST) | ||
::i Did? Sorry about that. But, still Mega Mole: is Unstompable even by a [[Spin Jump]] Or [[Yoshi]], Light Brown, has a Different name, Moves considerably Fast, Doesn't Stop Moving, While Morty Mole: is Stompable even with a normal [[Jump]], Reddish-Brown, also has a Different name, Moves Slower and stops To Look around. i'd say Their Different. [[User:LUIGIRULES71|LUIGIRULES71]] ([[User talk:LUIGIRULES71|talk]]) 18:03, 25 February 2018 (EST) | ::i Did? Sorry about that. But, still Mega Mole: is Unstompable even by a [[Spin Jump]] Or [[Yoshi]], Light Brown, has a Different name, Moves considerably Fast, Doesn't Stop Moving, While Morty Mole: is Stompable even with a normal [[Jump]], Reddish-Brown, also has a Different name, Moves Slower and stops To Look around. i'd say Their Different. [[User:LUIGIRULES71|LUIGIRULES71]] ([[User talk:LUIGIRULES71|talk]]) 18:03, 25 February 2018 (EST) | ||
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'''Mega Mole vs. Morty Mole: An organized overview:''' | '''Mega Mole vs. Morty Mole: An organized overview:''' | ||
*Article 1: The two look completely different: | *Article 1: The two look completely different: | ||
**A: Mega Mole is a large variation of the Monty Mole, which unlike the Monty Mole, wears sunglasses. A common rebuke of this is using [[:File:SMW MontyMole.png|this artwork]] to say that Monty Mole has sunglasses in Super Mario World; despite [[:File:MontyMoleL.gif|their sprite]] clearly lacking them. However, with Mister Wu's guide uploads, I can now confirm that [[:File:SMBD page 60.png|''Super Mario World'' art for Monty Moles did not ''always'' have sunglasses]], and in fact, looked like the in-game sprite. This artwork was clearly in usage by Nintendo and not just the guide, as it paved the way for [[:File:MontySM64.png|later]] [[:File:MPA | **A: Mega Mole is a large variation of the Monty Mole, which unlike the Monty Mole, wears sunglasses. A common rebuke of this is using [[:File:SMW MontyMole.png|this artwork]] to say that Monty Mole has sunglasses in Super Mario World; despite [[:File:MontyMoleL.gif|their sprite]] clearly lacking them. However, with Mister Wu's guide uploads, I can now confirm that [[:File:SMBD page 60.png|''Super Mario World'' art for Monty Moles did not ''always'' have sunglasses]], and in fact, looked like the in-game sprite. This artwork was clearly in usage by Nintendo and not just the guide, as it paved the way for [[:File:MontySM64.png|later]] [[:File:MPA Monty Mole Artwork.png|appearances]] [[:File:MontyMole MarioFamily.png|in]] [[:File:MontyMole Miracle Moles 6.png|various]] [[:File:MontyMoleYT&G.png|games]] until they were given their modern appearance. Let's compare and contrast the artwork of Monty Mole and Mega Mole as seen there. Mega Mole has, as I've mentioned on numerous occasions, sunglasses and a smug, jutted-out lower lip. Monty Mole, on the other hand, has no sunglasses, and while the face is smug, there isn't a potruding lip to be seen. | ||
***a: There is ''one'' detail suggesting Mega Moles were intended to be simply upscaled Monty Moles, and that is the Monty Moles' [https://www.spriters-resource.com/resources/sheets/7/7549.png appearance] in ''Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga'', released twelve years later, which features sunglasses and smug lips. However, this detail is rendered basically worthless by the fact that in the same game, [[Hammer Bro]]s [[:File:Superstar Saga Hammer Bros | ***a: There is ''one'' detail suggesting Mega Moles were intended to be simply upscaled Monty Moles, and that is the Monty Moles' [https://www.spriters-resource.com/resources/sheets/7/7549.png appearance] in ''Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga'', released twelve years later, which features sunglasses and smug lips. However, this detail is rendered basically worthless by the fact that in the same game, [[Hammer Bro]]s [[:File:Superstar Saga Hammer Bros.png|took after]] [[Sledge Bro|their respective larger not-quite counterpart]], while [https://www.spriters-resource.com/3ds/marioluigisuperstarsagabowsersminions/sheet/97887/ both] [[:File:MLSSBMHammerBro.png|appear]] on-model in the remake. | ||
***b: Ordinary Monty Moles are depicted with sunglasses in ''[[:File:MontyMole MK64.png|Mario Kart 64]]'', ''[[:File: | ***b: Ordinary Monty Moles are depicted with sunglasses in ''[[:File:MontyMole MK64.png|Mario Kart 64]]'', ''[[:File:MP3 Monty Mole Artwork.jpg|Mario Party 3]]'', and ''[[:File:PMMontyMole.png|Paper Mario]]'', based upon the inaccurate "jumping" artwork from ''Super Mario World''; however, this does not change the fact that the Monty Moles ''has'' artwork for ''Super Mario World'' depicting it without glasses, akin to the game's sprite. Furthermore the art does not appear to be original to that specific guide, as it appears to have been drawn in conjunction with the Mega Mole artork, due to the similar pose and details. ''Paper Mario'' also had other unusual designs, such as giving Pokey [[:File:PokeyPM.png|a strange catlike appearance]] ''possibly'' based tenuously off of [[:File:SMWPokeySprite.png|its ''Super Mario World'' sprites]], as opposed to [[:File:Old Pokey 64.png|its unnecessarily demonic]] ''Super Mario 64'' design, giving [[:File:HammerBroPM.png|Hammer Bro]] a blue helmet and mostly-wooden hammer, giving [[:File:PMDryBones.png|Dry Bones]] hair, making [[:File:SwooperPM.png|Swoop(er)]] purple, making [[:File:BillBlasterPM.png|Bill Blaster]] a generic cannon, making [[:File:PMLavaBubbleBattle.png|Lava Bubble]] an upright flame, giving [[:File:SpikeTop PM.png|Spike Top]] pale tan skin and an orange shell rim and claws, as well as whatever was going on with [[:File:PM Boo Sprite.png|Boo]]'s face. | ||
***c: Aside from the ''Superstar Saga'' sprite, all of the sunglass-wearing Monty Moles metioned above lack a jutted-out lower lip, smug expression, or pointy nose, instead having a short, gopher-like nose with a split upper lip with whiskers, like what Monty Moles have had in most games since ''Super Mario 64 DS'', while most prior games (and a few closely-following games) gave them a pushed-out, pointed nose. The large-nosed design also gave them prominent cheeks, while the designs with the gopher-like nose (including most of the sunglass-wearing ones) have flat or even somewhat concave cheeks with no prominence. While the existence of a lower lip comes and goes, they are never as prominent as that of a Mega Mole, again barring the off-model 'Superstar Saga'' sprite. | ***c: Aside from the ''Superstar Saga'' sprite, all of the sunglass-wearing Monty Moles metioned above lack a jutted-out lower lip, smug expression, or pointy nose, instead having a short, gopher-like nose with a split upper lip with whiskers, like what Monty Moles have had in most games since ''Super Mario 64 DS'', while most prior games (and a few closely-following games) gave them a pushed-out, pointed nose. The large-nosed design also gave them prominent cheeks, while the designs with the gopher-like nose (including most of the sunglass-wearing ones) have flat or even somewhat concave cheeks with no prominence. While the existence of a lower lip comes and goes, they are never as prominent as that of a Mega Mole, again barring the off-model 'Superstar Saga'' sprite. | ||
**B: Morty Mole is a large variation of the Monty Mole, with a mahogany body, a tan belly, and a much higher-up face. There is not any eyewear to be seen, which as I pointed out previously, was actually already an abberation among the Moles for the Mega Mole to wear them. Other than that, nothing more appearance-wise to write home about them. | **B: Morty Mole is a large variation of the Monty Mole, with a mahogany body, a tan belly, and a much higher-up face. There is not any eyewear to be seen, which as I pointed out previously, was actually already an abberation among the Moles for the Mega Mole to wear them. Other than that, nothing more appearance-wise to write home about them. | ||
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In regards to the ''Super Mario Maker'' info, I'd like to point out that the information for Buzzy Beetle+Wings+Super Mushroom isn't on the [[Heavy Para-Beetle]] page, nor should it be. As it's a different thing, and doesn't need to be lumped with something only tenuously similar. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 23:01, 14 March 2018 (EDT) | In regards to the ''Super Mario Maker'' info, I'd like to point out that the information for Buzzy Beetle+Wings+Super Mushroom isn't on the [[Heavy Para-Beetle]] page, nor should it be. As it's a different thing, and doesn't need to be lumped with something only tenuously similar. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 23:01, 14 March 2018 (EDT) | ||
While I myself have taken a neutral stance this time, I will say for the record, since it looks like support is succeeding now, pushing the same exact proposal multiple times consecutively without any new working information whatsoever is still not a good idea and generally shouldn't happen as it can set a bad trend. I really don't see why this subject couldn't have just waited a few more months until we finally get the needed source (hopefully as scheduled) that should definitively tilt this "borderline case" in one direction or another. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 12:30, 20 March 2018 (EDT) | |||
== Big Monty Mole == | |||
Big Monty Moles, larger versions of regular [[Monty Moles]], appear in the [[Super Mario Maker (disambiguation)|Super Mario Maker series]] and [[Yoshi's Crafted World]]. However, neither this article or the [[Morty Mole]] article mentions this. How should we handle this? Some people may think Big Monty Moles are the same as Mega Moles, but I think they are different. {{User:Obsessive Mario Fan/sig}} 13:18, August 19, 2019 (EDT) | |||
:Definitely. They should be split. But since they're called "big Monty Moles", and not "Big Monty Mole", we'd have to use the Mario Party name. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 13:21, August 19, 2019 (EDT) | |||
::Did Big Monty Moles appear in any games other than the Super Mario Maker series and Yoshi's Crafted World? You implied that they also appeared in a Mario Party game. {{User:Obsessive Mario Fan/sig}} 13:38, August 19, 2019 (EDT) | |||
:::Scroll to the Monty Mole's stats part of the page, and it mentions both Monty Mole and Mega Monty Mole. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 13:42, August 19, 2019 (EDT) | |||
::::Mega Monty Mole deserves its own page, but do the big Monty Moles from ''YCW'' have any difference from regular Monty Moles? Otherwise we should only split the ''Mario Party'' Mega Monty Mole, while mentioning how Mega Moles/Morty Moles are not the same as Mega Monty Moles, or the other larger Monty Moles. {{User:Doomhiker/sig}} 13:52, August 19, 2019 (EDT) | |||
::::(Edit conflict with Doomhiker) I don't know if the boss Mega Monty Mole should be included in the Big Monty Mole article or be considered a separate character, like [[Mega Sledge Bro]]. Right now, Mega Monty Mole is a redirect to [[Mega Monty Mole's Maze Mischief]], which just isn't right. {{User:Obsessive Mario Fan/sig}} 13:55, August 19, 2019 (EDT) | |||
:::::Big Monty Moles are certainly different from regular ones in ''YCW''. They require two hits to defeat, turning red on the first hit. Big Monty Moles are always found in the background, so they can only be interacted with by throwing eggs. {{User:Obsessive Mario Fan/sig}} 14:00, August 19, 2019 (EDT) | |||
::::::Mega Goomba is merged to the Big Goomba page, we should either change that or stay consistent. As the big Monty Moles are different in ''YCW'' they are definitely worthy of coverage (we can use the {{tem|Distinguish}} template or the {{tem|about}} template of the Mega Mole page, not sure if it is needed on the Morty Mole page) and we might as well cover their appearance in ''SMM'' given that their generic appearance is different than regular Mony Moles in at least one game. {{User:Doomhiker/sig}} 14:09, August 19, 2019 (EDT) | |||
== Unjust Dessert Pages == | |||
I own Unjust Desserts and I was wondering which pages have Mega Moles on them? [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 01:48, October 4, 2021 (EDT) | |||
Also should the Mega Mole in Volume 1 of Super Mario-kun get their own page as a notable member or just be lumped with the normal Mega Mole page? [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 22:22, October 5, 2021 (EDT) | |||
So which pages had Mega Moles in Unjust Desserts? I never seen a part in which Magikoopa shrunk the Mega Moles or Luigi and Yoshi spitting them out. The only thing about Mega Moles I remember appearing was their name being on a crossword puzzle stating them as Bowser’s Minions. [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 15:10, October 31, 2021 (EDT) | |||
:I imagine it's not a very commonly owned book, since you have it you're probably better off looking through it yourself. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 15:43, October 31, 2021 (EDT) | |||
Your right, but Unjust Desserts is a very confusing book to look through. Any suggestions to make finding the Mega Mole stuff easier in that book? [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 15:51, October 31, 2021 (EDT) | |||
:Look through the book. You had nearly an entire month to do this. [[File:Paper Mario Dizzy.png]] {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 16:39, October 31, 2021 (EDT) | |||
::I assume based on similar books I've read in the past that it's "confusing" because the paths are in different sections of the book and reading it from cover to cover doesn't make much sense. Does the plot really matter if you're just looking for where Mega Moles appear, though? There's really no reason to be asking other people to do this for you when you've already made it clear that you have the book and can find it yourself. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 17:07, October 31, 2021 (EDT) | |||
== Super Mario-kun Mega Mole == | |||
Do you guys think the Mega Mole in volume 1 of Super Mario-kun should get their own page even if they don’t have a unique name? [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 21:43, November 6, 2021 (EDT) | |||
:I am emphatically opposed to that. It's a generic member of the species that is treated as a vague individual due solely to being the only one in the story. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 23:48, November 6, 2021 (EDT) | |||
== Quote == | |||
{{quote|オレは キラーけん銃を一 もっている! 丸ごしの刑事なんて こわくはないぜ! ("I have a Bullet Bill gun! I'm not afraid of a fatty detective!")|Mega Mole|Super Mario (Kodansha manga)}} | |||
Should we replace the current quote with this quote? [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 15:26, November 9, 2021 (EST) | |||
:I don't think either quote is suitable. It's a portrayal from an obscure manga that doesn't really give a look at consistent portrayal through the series. Not every page needs a quote to go with it. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 15:30, November 9, 2021 (EST) | |||
::I agree that this article could probably do without either of these quotes. {{User:Swallow/sig}} 16:56, November 9, 2021 (EST) | |||