Talk:Mario Kart (series): Difference between revisions

Talk:Mario Kart (series) (edit)

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 :[[Talk:Sky-High Sundae#Determining which game did Sky-High Sundae come from|There's been a proposal]]. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 10:37, January 27, 2023 (EST)
 ::They're well aware of that Doc, hence why we have the footnote on this page. They meant where to put it in on the table in this page, in one area or the other or both, and they're concerned that it can make it seem like there are two Sky-High Sundae courses at a glance. Personally, I disagree about how much of an issue that would be (it only takes a moment or two to read the footnote or click the link), but I'll leave it to others to decide. {{User:Somethingone/sig}} 10:46, January 27, 2023 (EST)
+I think another argument is consistency. Every other course is only listed once. I don't find SHS's joint custody situation a compelling reason to change this, especially when it leads to duplicate information. [[User:Ahemtoday|Ahemtoday]] ([[User talk:Ahemtoday|talk]]) 12:04, January 28, 2023 (EST)
+:Honestly? Feature it in both, as that's what the proposal decided. Maybe put a different sign as footnote so it's harder to pass it as a minor footnote, but I think most readers will just think what has always been stated: that the course appearing in both parts means that it's considered a new course in both games. If in the future they assign a prepended platform code to the name shown in-game, we'll put Sky-High Sundae in the part corresponding to said platform code.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 05:31, January 29, 2023 (EST)
+::I really can't agree with this. We are putting it on the table twice when the table ''exists because'' tracks show up in multiple games. We are showing the exact same information in two different places. Even with the footnote, this is not a natural way of doing this. [[User:Ahemtoday|Ahemtoday]] ([[User talk:Ahemtoday|talk]]) 12:50, January 29, 2023 (EST)
+Personally, as I said in my edit, I think the note added after Sky-High, plus the yellow color and the note in the MK8DX column is enough. There aren't that many footnotes in this table, especially in the courses column, which makes them stand out to the readers, so you can take advantage of that if you want to add any clarification or additional information. For me, the purpose of this table is to list all the unique main courses in the series, so I think we should only list them once. I also agree that two Sky-Highs could lead to unnecessary confusion. As for where it should go, I think putting it in the Tour row at the end is better because, both the game and the course are much more recent than MK8DX (and because this course was clearly made initially for Tour and its shitty mobile graphics, let's face it).--[[User:Conradd|Conradd]] ([[User talk:Conradd|talk]]) 22:07, January 29, 2023 (EST)
+=== Proposal: where do we put Sky-High Sundae? ===
+{{SettledTPP}}
+{{ProposalOutcome|passed|1-8-1|With the Tour courses}}
+Right, so. As discussed above, the current wiki policy, set by [[Talk:Sky-High Sundae#Determining which game did Sky-High Sundae come from|this proposal]], is that Sky-High Sundae is a course from both ''[[Mario Kart 8 Deluxe]]'' '''and''' ''[[Mario Kart Tour]]''. This leads to the question of how to handle it on this article's table, since we have to put it somewhere.
+I want to stress '''this will in no way effect our policy on which game Sky-High Sundae comes from, only the table on this article'''.
+'''Proposer:''' {{User|Ahemtoday}}<br>
+'''Deadline:''' February 13, 2023, 23:59 GMT
+====With the ''Mario Kart 8'' courses====
+# {{User|Ahemtoday}} Second choice, since as I'll explain further down, I think putting it on the table twice is the worst option. I do think putting it with ''Tour'' makes more sense, since it matches the race course template, and we did that there because it's the odd one out among the MK8 courses as the only ''Deluxe''-exclusive one (and also because of the platform code).
+====With the ''Mario Kart Tour'' courses====
+# {{User|Ahemtoday}} First choice. I do not think putting it in two distinct places on the table is desirable, since '''A)''' it would result in a row of cells that contains completely identical information to a previous row; '''B)''' the table's entire purpose is to show what tracks are in multiple games so we should just let it do that; '''C)''' Sky-High Sundae's joint custody situation is made clear enough by the footnote and everything else on the wiki, so we don't need to break how the table is laid out just so it doesn't look at first glance like it belongs to only one; and '''D)''' it would instead look at first glance like it was two tracks like Luigi Circuit and Sherbet Land and I think any way you slice it, how many tracks something is is more important to get right than which game it originates from.
+# {{User|ShootingStar7X}} Per proposal.
+# {{User|Infinite8}} I know it's a new course for both games. But maybe for the table, it should be under the Tour row because of the "mob" platform code. Per proposal.
+# {{User|Tails777}} I still consider Sky-High Sundae to be more of a Tour track than an 8 Deluxe track for reasons I stated back when we discussed what to consider it so my vote goes here. As for my main reasoning, per Infinite8.
+# {{User|Conradd}} I think this option is the best.
+# {{User|Killer Moth}} Per all.
+# {{User|RealStuffMister}} per all and per my explanation in the edit summary on the Mario Kart (series) page
+# {{User|Arend}} It was always made as a new course ''for'' Tour, as in Tour data, it's assigned with the mob prefix, not a wu or nsw one. I've held onto this sentiment from the start and it hasn't changed. Per all.
+====Put it on the table twice====
+#{{User|Somethingone}} The relevant part of this table says that the game each track is in is their "Original Game", which in other words is the game it debuted in. Sky-High Sundae is a new course for both MK8D and MKT, so it should be put in both parts of the table. The same should be done with the racecourses template, as Sky-High Sundae is a unique case in the Mario Kart series of a track debuting in two games instead of one (need I remind you that the other two non-city tour courses in the pass debuted months before the pass even existed, and were given the "Tour" prefix everywhere else prior to Wave 3). I do not see how "It would appear like it is two separate tracks if we list it twice" could apply to this; under the table it is listed with the same check marks, coloration, and footnotes, and if that's not enough they can always check the link. And don't points C and D contradict each other? If the footnote appears twice for both "Sky-High Sundae" entries, saying that it is officially a new course for both of the games it is listed in (hence the "original course" at the top of the table), why would someone think that Nintendo released two separate new tracks with the same name in the same two Mario Kart games that are marketed as both being the debut course of both at the same time? And to everyone treating the "mob" internal name as the holy grail; can we really treat internal content as the ultimate objective determination and not take into account the possibility of Nintendo just having changed their mind on something? Remember, these same Mario Kart leaks also said that Waluigi Pinball was listed to debut in Wave 3 for the pass but it didn't. (and to the person talking about the upcoming Yoshi's Island and Bathroom courses, why does that matter when the next new course announced is a desert ruins with a Piranha Plant motif?) In general, I'd much rather uphold our "It debuted in both games" stance all around instead of soft-coring to one side and saying "it debuted in Mario Kart Tour <small>and also the Booster Course Pass</small>". If we decide to reconsider our "two game debut" stance and/or Nintendo pulls another Sky-High Sundae situation with a more distinctly "Tour-advertised" course, we can always pull a broader proposal to repeal the original SHS debut game proposal.
+====Comments====
+Another thing to point out is that ''Mario Kart 8 Deluxe'' and ''Mario Kart Tour'' would reveal another new non-city course in similar way to Sky-High Sundae, it would mess up the table even more if going for option C. Imagine new courses like ''mobyi'' and ''mobbr'' (future ''Tour'' tracks found in the game's files) that would presumably be new Booster Course Pass courses introduced a week before their ''Tour'' versions. I would also add my two suggestion concepts: [https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/297596959026446337/1067811470567542855/image.png option A] and [https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/297596959026446337/1067811470785650738/image.png option B] (with the Booster Course Pass logo in ''Tour'' row section, as Tencent releases of ''8 Deluxe'' treated city courses as no-prefix new courses). {{User:Infinite8/sig}} 20:15, January 30, 2023 (EST)
+:I'm not too sure about putting the BCP logo in there. You have a point regarding the Tencent releases, but every other release ''does'' prefix the city courses. We'd have courses marked as Tour courses outside China, and courses only marked as Tour courses in-game and not on the website, all painted the same level of "arguably a BCP track" because of one course and a presumption of how future courses will be released. It seems better fit to put this information in a footnote somewhere. [[User:Ahemtoday|Ahemtoday]] ([[User talk:Ahemtoday|talk]]) 21:23, January 30, 2023 (EST)
+@Somethingone a due precisation: the only main leak regarding Sky-High Sundae was the ''Mario Kart Tour'' icon of the course (which was eventually used in the final game), the <tt>New_Gmob_IceBuilding</tt> internal name is not a leak, but rather the course name used in the final product. It is not in the same ballpark of the Booster Course Pass leaks that had to do with content that was ultimately changed in the final product. With that being said, the text that actually ended in the in-game news post introducing the Sundae Tour revealed that indeed the original plan was releasing Sky-High Sundae in ''Mario Kart Tour'' first, so a change in the original release plan definitely happened, that unchanged text shows that it was a last-minute change, too.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 11:27, February 4, 2023 (EST)
+== A note about the new Yoshi’s Island course ==
+It's worth noting how said course was originally datamined in ''[[Mario Kart Tour]]'' [https://tcrf.net/index.php?title=Mario_Kart_Tour&diff=1251072&oldid=1247672 no later than June 2022]. Its internal abbreviated name is <tt>mobyi</tt>, which puts it in the same situation of ''Sky-High Sundae'', the main difference being that this time the map objects of the course were found in the data of ''Mario Kart Tour'' several months prior to the course's announcement in the Booster Course Pass. Since I have data of previous tours, if I have some time in the next days I'll try to see if I can find when the map objects first appeared in the game's assets.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 00:39, February 9, 2023 (EST)
+:I fully expect Yoshi's Island to come to Tour and be treated as a new course. When it does, that's when we should switch to treating it the same way as Sky-High Sundae. [[User:Ahemtoday|Ahemtoday]] ([[User talk:Ahemtoday|talk]]) 01:09, February 9, 2023 (EST)
+::Agreed. We need to see how they'll handle the release in both games this time and act accordingly. Oddly enough the Japanese site of Nintendo doesn't have a "topic" article about the wave 4 announcement so we have very limited information at the moment.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 05:33, February 9, 2023 (EST)
+:::One thing that can guarantee a confirmation for ''Tour'' is that when the official ''Mario Kart Tour'' Twitter account (in the case of the English account) retweets the Nintendo of America tweet regarding to the new Yoshi's Island course. The ''Tour'' Twitter account has previously retweeted the NoA tweet about the course lineup in the first three waves. {{User:Infinite8/sig}} 05:52, February 9, 2023 (EST)
+:...Sooooo, going to raise a question here while we wait for the Yoshi's Island course to end up like a Sky-High Sundae situation; what if it doesn't end up like this? Unlike Sky-High Sundae, which was advertised to be a "new" course for both game simultaneously, this course does not seem to be under that umbrella as well. None of the subtle advertisement hints from Sky-High Sundae can be found here; the Twitter account did not retweet the first trailer for Yoshi's Island, there was no statement in the trailer of Yoshi's Island coming to ''Tour'' in the future, and the Mii Racing Suits do not hint at a Yoshi-themed tour coming up for ''Tour'' (the next one is a Spike-themed suit, the one after that will be a Pokey-themed suit). What do we do if it takes months before they announce the course for ''Tour'', or never does so at all? {{User:Somethingone/sig}} 22:05, March 3, 2023 (EST)
+::Well, we keep it like it is, then. We should be treating it like an 8 Deluxe course at this point. [[User:Ahemtoday|Ahemtoday]] ([[User talk:Ahemtoday|talk]]) 00:10, March 4, 2023 (EST)
+::We keep doing like we did with Sky-High Sundae: we treated it as a new course in both games mostly because that’s what Nintendo did, otherwise we would have just kept the note about its internal platform code. This course will likely end up in a future ''Yoshi Tour'', and at that point we’ll see what Nintendo does interns of both in-game prefix and written material, until then it’s a ''Mario Kart 8 Deluxe'' course, and we keep the note about its internal platform code in the page.—[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 05:25, March 4, 2023 (EST)
+As a little update, the official Twitter account of ''Mario Kart Tour'' [https://www.twitter.com/mariokarttourEN/status/1641681733891538946 confirmed that the course will be named just ''Yoshi’s Island'' in ''Mario Kart Tour''], without any platform prefix. As usual, we’ll wait for the official Twitter post of the tour, the internal news notice of the upcoming Yoshi Tour and the [https://mario.nintendo.com/news/ news article on the Official Home of Mario] before taking any action, but the suggestion is already there that Yoshi’s Island will get the Sky-High Sundae treatment.—[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 12:23, March 31, 2023 (EDT)
+== The new tracks from Mario Kart 8 Deluxe Booster Pass should be added in race courses list ==
+That's something that should be simple. Just add the checkmarks for the courses and a reference for the respective wave.
+I could edit there myself, but as the page is protected I'm just drop this info here, looking for someone that can edit the page to make the updates :)
+[[User:Shideravan|Shideravan]] ([[User talk:Shideravan|talk]]) 14:43, June 24, 2023 (EDT)
+== Mario Kart Tour should be included in the main series Mario Kart list ==
+Mario Kart Tour should'nt be in an extra category, since it's a main series entrie. For example in the Super Mario series article Super Mario Run isn't excluded. I think it should be merged. {{unsigned|Big Super Mario Fan}}
+== MK GP VR ==
+Should the Mario Kart VR be added along with the other arcade games? I don't know much info about it or how many tracks there are, but it would be cool if someone added the tracks from this game. [[Special:Contributions/172.58.182.254|172.58.182.254]] 18:06, May 18, 2024 (EDT)
+According to ''[[Mario Kart Arcade GP VR]]''{{'}}s article, the game only has different "skins" of one track, though it doesn't state what those are. I'm hesitant to suggest any course of action since I only know what the wiki already has, but I get the feeling we'll need to rework how we present the arcade subseries's courses once someone arrives with the info. Maybe we add the similarly skin-based courses of Live Circuit, too? [[User:Ahemtoday|Ahemtoday]] ([[User talk:Ahemtoday|talk]]) 21:27, May 18, 2024 (EDT)
+I feel like it would be good to add the Live Circuit tracks along with the VR games since they are similar with having different track skins, but it would be more difficult for VR since it was only in Japan and London for a limited time, while  Live Circuit was available worldwide.
+{{unsigned|67.60.61.44}}