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{{MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive Template | {{MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/Template}} | ||
<div style="font-size:95%">__TOC__</div> | <div style="font-size:95%">__TOC__</div> | ||
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Here's an example of what I want these to look like | Here's an example of what I want these to look like | ||
{| class="{{#if: {{{overturned|}}}|mw-collapsible mw-collapsed|notice-template reminder}}" style="background:white;margin:0.15em;border:1px solid black;padding:0.5em 1em; | {| class="{{#if: {{{overturned|}}}|mw-collapsible mw-collapsed|notice-template reminder}}" style="background:white;margin:0.15em;border:1px solid black;padding:0.5em 1em;border-radius:1em" width="100%" | ||
{{#if: {{{overturned|}}}| | {{#if: {{{overturned|}}}| | ||
{{!}}- | {{!}}- | ||
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|Please stop ''{{{2|making unconstructive edits}}}'' on the Super Mario Wiki. This isn't a warning, and it's possible that you made a mistake by accident or without realizing it; this is simply a '''[[MarioWiki:Warning policy#Level one offenses|reminder]]''' for your information. '''If the action continues''', then a warning will be issued. Thanks for reading and keep contributing.<br><sub>If you feel this reminder has been unfairly given out, you may [[MarioWiki:Appeals|appeal]] it.</sub> | |Please stop ''{{{2|making unconstructive edits}}}'' on the Super Mario Wiki. This isn't a warning, and it's possible that you made a mistake by accident or without realizing it; this is simply a '''[[MarioWiki:Warning policy#Level one offenses|reminder]]''' for your information. '''If the action continues''', then a warning will be issued. Thanks for reading and keep contributing.<br><sub>If you feel this reminder has been unfairly given out, you may [[MarioWiki:Appeals|appeal]] it.</sub> | ||
|} | |} | ||
{| class="{{#if: {{{overturned|}}}|mw-collapsible mw-collapsed|notice-template reminder}}" style="background:white;margin: .15em;border:1px solid black;padding: .5em 1em; | {| class="{{#if: {{{overturned|}}}|mw-collapsible mw-collapsed|notice-template reminder}}" style="background:white;margin: .15em;border:1px solid black;padding: .5em 1em;border-radius:1em" width="100%" | ||
{{#if: {{{overturned|}}}| | {{#if: {{{overturned|}}}| | ||
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|This is a '''[[MarioWiki:Warning policy#Level two offenses|warning]]''' to stop your inappropriate behavior {{#if:{{{2|}}}|(''{{{2}}}'')}} on the Super Mario Wiki. Please adhere to the rules or you will be blocked from editing this site.<br><sub>If you feel this warning has been unfairly given out, you may [[MarioWiki:Appeals|appeal]] it.</sub> | |This is a '''[[MarioWiki:Warning policy#Level two offenses|warning]]''' to stop your inappropriate behavior {{#if:{{{2|}}}|(''{{{2}}}'')}} on the Super Mario Wiki. Please adhere to the rules or you will be blocked from editing this site.<br><sub>If you feel this warning has been unfairly given out, you may [[MarioWiki:Appeals|appeal]] it.</sub> | ||
|} | |} | ||
{| class="{{#if: {{{overturned|}}}|mw-collapsible mw-collapsed|notice-template reminder}}" style="background:white;margin: .15em;border:1px solid black;padding: .5em 1em; | {| class="{{#if: {{{overturned|}}}|mw-collapsible mw-collapsed|notice-template reminder}}" style="background:white;margin: .15em;border:1px solid black;padding: .5em 1em;border-radius:1em" width="100%" | ||
{{#if: {{{overturned|}}}| | {{#if: {{{overturned|}}}| | ||
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'''Proposer:''' {{User|Alex95}}<br> | '''Proposer:''' {{User|Alex95}}<br> | ||
'''Deadline:''' March 4, 2018, 23:59 GMT ''' | '''Deadline:''' March 4, 2018, 23:59 GMT<br> | ||
'''Date Withdrawn:''' February 25, 2018, 21:00 GMT | |||
====Support==== | ====Support==== | ||
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:::Ah. I like trying to put a humorous spin on things, but I see what you mean. Corrected. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 13:22, 25 February 2018 (EST) | :::Ah. I like trying to put a humorous spin on things, but I see what you mean. Corrected. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 13:22, 25 February 2018 (EST) | ||
The link is really there for the reader (99% of wiki visitors), not the editors. Your scenario imagines a reader who wants to get into editing, but that is a very low percentage case. The vast majority of our traffic only reads. If they want to get into editing, they will be introduced to our help pages and {{tem| | The link is really there for the reader (99% of wiki visitors), not the editors. Your scenario imagines a reader who wants to get into editing, but that is a very low percentage case. The vast majority of our traffic only reads. If they want to get into editing, they will be introduced to our help pages and {{tem|MarioWiki}} at some point and see the categories link. The target audience of [[MarioWiki:Categories]] is the editor and isn't as useful as [[Special:Categories]] if your only goal is exploring the site. A reader can use the search box on [[Special:Categories]] to check out different categories we have, for example. The info on MarioWiki:Categories about our category structure and where to put categories probably isn't the reading that visitors came to the site for (deep ''Mario'' lore). Editors and would-be editors seeking category help will find MarioWiki:Categories through our help pages, where as visitors are not going to know that Special:Categories exists without the link since they're not roaming through [[Special:SpecialPages]]. That Categories link appears across the wiki, on every namespace, and it takes you to a page that let's you explore all the wiki's categories (makes sense). Not sure it should take you to a policy page instead! --{{User:Porplemontage/sig}} 14:33, 25 February 2018 (EST) | ||
:Would it be beneficial to add a quick explanation of categories at the top of [[MarioWiki:Categories]]? {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 15:11, 25 February 2018 (EST) | :Would it be beneficial to add a quick explanation of categories at the top of [[MarioWiki:Categories]]? {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 15:11, 25 February 2018 (EST) | ||
::A link to an overall comprehensive list both does and doesn't seem all that useful to me. It really depends on the situation. Is it a reader looking through the categories, or is it an editor trying to figure out how the categories should be placed? If anything, they should lead to each other. | ::A link to an overall comprehensive list both does and doesn't seem all that useful to me. It really depends on the situation. Is it a reader looking through the categories, or is it an editor trying to figure out how the categories should be placed? If anything, they should lead to each other. | ||
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===Do not create ''Super Mario Odyssey'' sublocation pages=== | ===Do not create ''Super Mario Odyssey'' sublocation pages=== | ||
{{ProposalOutcome|cancelled}} | {{ProposalOutcome|cancelled}} | ||
The current [[Template: | The current [[Template:SMO kingdoms|''Super Mario Odyssey'' Kingdom nav-template]] has (mostly red) links for all the named locations within every kingdom in the game. I think each one of these locations getting an article is a bad idea. | ||
While some of these locations are pretty big and unique, like the Deep Woods and Snowline Circuit, most of them are simply extentions of the main world or too small and not so relevant by themselves, and presenting them disconnected from each other would make these pages feel short on content. Island in the Sky (Bowser's Castle), Rocky Mountain Summit (Forgotten Isle), Heliport (New Donk City), Glass Palace (Bubblaine) and Salt-Pile Isle (Mount Volbono) are some examples of locations which are, at most, glorified platforms with a Checkpoint Flag on/near them. There are also three Tostarena Ruins locations, three Water Plaza locations, two Iron Path locations; having an article for each one is unnecessary as they are part of a whole rather than defined places (which is also the case of things like the Waterfall Basin and Stone Bridge in Fossil Falls and the Tostarena Northwest Reaches). | While some of these locations are pretty big and unique, like the Deep Woods and Snowline Circuit, most of them are simply extentions of the main world or too small and not so relevant by themselves, and presenting them disconnected from each other would make these pages feel short on content. Island in the Sky (Bowser's Castle), Rocky Mountain Summit (Forgotten Isle), Heliport (New Donk City), Glass Palace (Bubblaine) and Salt-Pile Isle (Mount Volbono) are some examples of locations which are, at most, glorified platforms with a Checkpoint Flag on/near them. There are also three Tostarena Ruins locations, three Water Plaza locations, two Iron Path locations; having an article for each one is unnecessary as they are part of a whole rather than defined places (which is also the case of things like the Waterfall Basin and Stone Bridge in Fossil Falls and the Tostarena Northwest Reaches). | ||
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#{{User|BBQ Turtle}} Per all, this just seems like the sensible thing to do anyway. | #{{User|BBQ Turtle}} Per all, this just seems like the sensible thing to do anyway. | ||
#{{User|Baby Luigi}} Per all. | #{{User|Baby Luigi}} Per all. | ||
#{{user|Wildgoosespeeder}} The proposal is about allowing as many characters in the original title as possible, if the suggested title has technical issues. When such a case occurs, use the <code><nowiki>{{DISPLAYTITLE}}</nowiki></code> [[ | #{{user|Wildgoosespeeder}} The proposal is about allowing as many characters in the original title as possible, if the suggested title has technical issues. When such a case occurs, use the <code><nowiki>{{DISPLAYTITLE}}</nowiki></code> [[mw:Help:Magic words|MediaWiki Magic Word]] to correct the title. <code>#</code> in URLs are used for linking to headers in a page name, like [[Iggy's Castle#Overview|this example]]. Even forcing URL encoding brings up an error. [https://www.mariowiki.com/%231_Iggy%27s_Castle] I couldn't get MediaWiki to parse this normally, so a forced URL is used to demonstrate. | ||
====Oppose==== | ====Oppose==== | ||
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===Smash Bros. Articles: What Stays and What Goes?=== | ===Smash Bros. Articles: What Stays and What Goes?=== | ||
{{ProposalOutcome|passed|12-1|make the changes}} | {{ProposalOutcome|passed|12-1|make the changes}} | ||
[[MarioWiki:Proposals/ | [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/51#Make_an_exception_for_the_Super_Smash_Bros._series_in_our_coverage_policy|The previous ''Super Smash Bros.'' proposal]] allowed us to justify previous exceptions to ''Smash'' coverage (i.e. the stage hazards and Smash Taunt characters) and paved a path for future exceptions. After [https://www.marioboards.com/index.php?topic=39608.0 the discussion on the forums], this proposal will outline exactly what further exceptions will be made, as in which pages will be merged and which pages will remain intact. With that out of the way, let's dive in! | ||
*Fighters: No changes are planned. | *Fighters: No changes are planned. | ||
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*Moves: Special moves will be merged to the character that uses them (e.g. [[Mach Tornado]], [[Drill Rush]], [[Shuttle Loop]], [[Dimensional Cape]], and [[Galaxia Darkness]] will be merged to [[Meta Knight]]; for moves that are used by multiple fighters, the information will be split between them, such as with [[Shield Breaker]]), as it was previously. The exception to this is with moves performed by characters from the ''Mario'' franchise; they will remain separate. | *Moves: Special moves will be merged to the character that uses them (e.g. [[Mach Tornado]], [[Drill Rush]], [[Shuttle Loop]], [[Dimensional Cape]], and [[Galaxia Darkness]] will be merged to [[Meta Knight]]; for moves that are used by multiple fighters, the information will be split between them, such as with [[Shield Breaker]]), as it was previously. The exception to this is with moves performed by characters from the ''Mario'' franchise; they will remain separate. | ||
Note that this proposal isn't completely exhaustive: there are scattered pages like [[List of Mii Outfits]] and [[List of bonuses in Super Smash Bros.]] that also deserve scrutiny, but considering the subtle differences between each of them, it'd be best to tackle those individually and not overburden this proposal. Still, there's plenty that's already being covered here. It's a lot to take in, but these are changes that should be taken for all the same reasons as before. It's disingenuous to treat the ''Super Smash Bros.'' series as if its ''Mario'' content is even close to that of existing crossovers with the franchise like ''[[Fortune Street]]'' and ''[[Mario & Sonic (series)|Mario & Sonic]]''. The wiki should strive to reflect that. | Note that this proposal isn't completely exhaustive: there are scattered pages like [[List of Mii Fighter Outfits]] and [[List of bonuses in Super Smash Bros.]] that also deserve scrutiny, but considering the subtle differences between each of them, it'd be best to tackle those individually and not overburden this proposal. Still, there's plenty that's already being covered here. It's a lot to take in, but these are changes that should be taken for all the same reasons as before. It's disingenuous to treat the ''Super Smash Bros.'' series as if its ''Mario'' content is even close to that of existing crossovers with the franchise like ''[[Fortune Street]]'' and ''[[Mario & Sonic (series)|Mario & Sonic]]''. The wiki should strive to reflect that. | ||
'''Proposer''': {{User|Time Turner}}, with input from {{User|Superchao}}<br> | '''Proposer''': {{User|Time Turner}}, with input from {{User|Superchao}}<br> | ||
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::Really, Doc, don't insult the wikis that we're partnered with so casually. It's irrelevant to this proposal, and it completely disparages the work that has been put into them, including the work done by several users that write for this very wiki. Making broad generalizations does not help anyone. If you think that a particular page is poorly written, you have the ability to fix it yourself, but not every single page is like that. {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 18:31, 2 April 2018 (EDT) | ::Really, Doc, don't insult the wikis that we're partnered with so casually. It's irrelevant to this proposal, and it completely disparages the work that has been put into them, including the work done by several users that write for this very wiki. Making broad generalizations does not help anyone. If you think that a particular page is poorly written, you have the ability to fix it yourself, but not every single page is like that. {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 18:31, 2 April 2018 (EDT) | ||
:::Except several of them don't allow IP edits, period, and require making accounts on other sites to have an account on them. And have you seen the ad amounts on many of them? My poor browser will slow even worse than when I had to deal with Norton Security! "A good amount" isn't necessarily "broad," either, it is perhaps the most nonspecific phrase one can use. Anyways, the point is, I find this proposal so fundamentally flawed and misguided that I might give up hope on this place entirely if it goes through. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 18:36, 2 April 2018 (EDT) | :::Except several of them don't allow IP edits, period, and require making accounts on other sites to have an account on them. And have you seen the ad amounts on many of them? My poor browser will slow even worse than when I had to deal with Norton Security! "A good amount" isn't necessarily "broad," either, it is perhaps the most nonspecific phrase one can use. Anyways, the point is, I find this proposal so fundamentally flawed and misguided that I might give up hope on this place entirely if it goes through. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 18:36, 2 April 2018 (EDT) | ||
::Why did I forget to sign again? Stupid me. Anyways, I already feel we shouldn't be covering most of Donkey Kong's games since I feel we are robbing | ::Why did I forget to sign again? Stupid me. Anyways, I already feel we shouldn't be covering most of Donkey Kong's games since I feel we are robbing Donkey Kong Wiki site traffic, but I don't want to stir up that hive of bees again (*shutters at my talk page*). I've given up that idea and won't push that anymore. Let's try a different game example. --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 18:35, 2 April 2018 (EDT) | ||
:::It works both ways, regardless of your bias. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 18:36, 2 April 2018 (EDT) | :::It works both ways, regardless of your bias. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 18:36, 2 April 2018 (EDT) | ||
::::The example you gave me was one I would be in support of rather than against, which you were hoping I would be against. Has nothing to do with bias. I merely suggest a different game that I would be against not covering or shifting coverage elsewhere. --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 18:44, 2 April 2018 (EDT) | ::::The example you gave me was one I would be in support of rather than against, which you were hoping I would be against. Has nothing to do with bias. I merely suggest a different game that I would be against not covering or shifting coverage elsewhere. --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 18:44, 2 April 2018 (EDT) | ||
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:::::::::Literally no one but you said "rip-off." The '''''fact''''' is that it was going to be a Popeye game, but was retooled after they weren't given the liscence (though they later were afterwards). It's comparable to ''Mega Man''<'>s relation to ''Astro-Boy''. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 19:22, 2 April 2018 (EDT) | :::::::::Literally no one but you said "rip-off." The '''''fact''''' is that it was going to be a Popeye game, but was retooled after they weren't given the liscence (though they later were afterwards). It's comparable to ''Mega Man''<'>s relation to ''Astro-Boy''. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 19:22, 2 April 2018 (EDT) | ||
::::::::::My memory is fuzzy on the details, as I remember my general feelings and reaction towards the conversation better, but the vibe that conversation some time ago was making me feel like people were implying rip-off when analyzing Popeye cartoon and Donkey Kong arcade. --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 19:26, 2 April 2018 (EDT) | ::::::::::My memory is fuzzy on the details, as I remember my general feelings and reaction towards the conversation better, but the vibe that conversation some time ago was making me feel like people were implying rip-off when analyzing Popeye cartoon and Donkey Kong arcade. --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 19:26, 2 April 2018 (EDT) | ||
:::@Wildgoosespeeder | :::@Wildgoosespeeder: Reboot ([[User talk:Reboot|talk]]) 19:09, 2 April 2018 (EDT) | ||
@Time Turner: Why would we merge ''all'' special moves to the character that uses them? Wouldn't that cause inconsistencies? {{User:Toadette the Achiever/sig}} 18:33, 2 April 2018 (EDT) | @Time Turner: Why would we merge ''all'' special moves to the character that uses them? Wouldn't that cause inconsistencies? {{User:Toadette the Achiever/sig}} 18:33, 2 April 2018 (EDT) | ||
:If you could clarify, what would be inconsistent? {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 18:34, 2 April 2018 (EDT) | :If you could clarify, what would be inconsistent? {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 18:34, 2 April 2018 (EDT) | ||
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As {{user|Doc von Schmeltwick}} has been so energetically pointing out recently, the way we handle "species" bears little-to-no resemblance to reality - an octopus is not a species related to a mushroom, even if an [[Octoomba]] is obviously derived from a [[Goomba]], and trying to justify it is waaay beyond the bounds of a simple infobox list. And the likes of [[Fish Bone|fish]] [[Honebōn|skeletons]] [[Jean de Fillet|for]] [[Honen|one]] [[Sharkbone|example]] aren't even breedable! And, generally, obsessing over taxonomy seems rather misplaced for a Mario fansite. | As {{user|Doc von Schmeltwick}} has been so energetically pointing out recently, the way we handle "species" bears little-to-no resemblance to reality - an octopus is not a species related to a mushroom, even if an [[Octoomba]] is obviously derived from a [[Goomba]], and trying to justify it is waaay beyond the bounds of a simple infobox list. And the likes of [[Fish Bone|fish]] [[Honebōn|skeletons]] [[Jean de Fillet|for]] [[Honen|one]] [[Sharkbone|example]] aren't even breedable! And, generally, obsessing over taxonomy seems rather misplaced for a Mario fansite. | ||
This primarily affects {{tem|species | This primarily affects {{tem|species infobox}}. In the immediate aftermath, this proposal will be achieved by putting all three variables in the "See also" line (with appropriate <nowiki>{{#if:*}}s</nowiki> so that they can be stacked vertically), inside a new <nowiki>{{{see also}}}</nowiki> variable, which will be on the documentation and override the older variables if both the new and old variables are used. In the longer term, it may require use of a bot to make wiki-wide changes, especially if full alphabetisation (as opposed to priority-based sorting) is desired. | ||
'''Proposer''': {{User|Reboot}}<br> | '''Proposer''': {{User|Reboot}}<br> | ||
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===Replace enemy sections with an infobox entry=== | ===Replace enemy sections with an infobox entry=== | ||
{{ProposalOutcome|failed|2-2-9|no change}} | {{ProposalOutcome|failed|2-2-9|no change}} | ||
Add an <code><nowiki>|</nowiki>enemies=</code> section to <nowiki>{{</nowiki>[[Template: | Add an <code><nowiki>|</nowiki>enemies=</code> section to <nowiki>{{</nowiki>[[Template:Level infobox|level infobox]]<nowiki>}}</nowiki> and move "Enemies" sections (like [[World 1-1 (Super Mario Bros.)#Enemies]]) to the infobox. This information doesn't seem like it's worth a whole section since it's already covered in the overview section, and small lists (which is the case in most levels) would fit perfect in an infobox, especially if they were comma separated instead of bulleted. | ||
While it's true that having some level articles with enemies sections and some with enemies in the levelbox would be inconsistent, I think this has to be considered with the usefulness of having sections with small lists of enemies. | While it's true that having some level articles with enemies sections and some with enemies in the levelbox would be inconsistent, I think this has to be considered with the usefulness of having sections with small lists of enemies. | ||
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====Move all enemies sections to the levelbox, with the enemies section being collapsible.==== | ====Move all enemies sections to the levelbox, with the enemies section being collapsible.==== | ||
<s>{{User|Alex95}} - I suppose I'll agree with myself.</s> | <s>{{User|Alex95}} - I suppose I'll agree with myself.</s> | ||
<br \><s>{{User|The Retro Gamer}} | <br \><s>{{User|The Retro Gamer}} Per my proposal. Edit 1: I'm thinking about how to (and if I will) revise my proposal; I don't think this reformatting will work well on a grand scale for levels with more than 20 enemies. Edit 2: Alex95 suggested that the infobox section could be collapsible, and I like this option very much; it elegantly solves the space concern while putting infobox-appropriate information in the infobox.</s> '''Edit:''' No longer my preferred option; see my vote above. | ||
<br><s>#{{User|Supermariofan67}} Per Alex95</s> | <br><s>#{{User|Supermariofan67}} Per Alex95</s> | ||
#{{User|Reboot}} Per | #{{User|Reboot}} Per | ||
#{{user|Wildgoosespeeder}} The concern over a long enemy list isn't a big one because MediaWiki CSS styles we use start the list collapsed (<code><nowiki>mw-collapsible mw-collapsed</nowiki></code>). See [[ | #{{user|Wildgoosespeeder}} The concern over a long enemy list isn't a big one because MediaWiki CSS styles we use start the list collapsed (<code><nowiki>mw-collapsible mw-collapsed</nowiki></code>). See [[mw:Manual:Collapsible elements|here]]. Leaving an enemy list as an article section instead of in an infobox makes the specific vital level information look excluded. A level infobox should include basic level information, such as time limit, world-level, music, etc., which I see enemies as that type of information. | ||
====Add enemies to the levelbox, but keep the enemy sections==== | ====Add enemies to the levelbox, but keep the enemy sections==== | ||
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::::::But the exceptions wouldn't really be arbitrary, since they could be based off the statistics above. You're welcome to vote how you please, but I think lists under a certain amount of enemies shouldn't be kept in the article body just for the sake of consistency. [[User:The Retro Gamer|<span style="color:red;">--The</span>]] [[User talk:The Retro Gamer|<span style="color:green;">Retro</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/The Retro Gamer|<span style="color:blue;">Gamer</span>]] 23:35, 29 April 2018 (EDT) | ::::::But the exceptions wouldn't really be arbitrary, since they could be based off the statistics above. You're welcome to vote how you please, but I think lists under a certain amount of enemies shouldn't be kept in the article body just for the sake of consistency. [[User:The Retro Gamer|<span style="color:red;">--The</span>]] [[User talk:The Retro Gamer|<span style="color:green;">Retro</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/The Retro Gamer|<span style="color:blue;">Gamer</span>]] 23:35, 29 April 2018 (EDT) | ||
Still thinking over, so I'm not going to vote yet, but keep in mind that a "spoiler box" is a thing as well. Like in [[Template:Species | Still thinking over, so I'm not going to vote yet, but keep in mind that a "spoiler box" is a thing as well. Like in [[Template:Species infobox]]. Perhaps this new section can be coded like that, if space is the main issue. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 00:20, 30 April 2018 (EDT) | ||
:I was not aware of that option. I think that option would be the optimal outcome, solving the space issue completely. I'll add that to the list of options and add my vote to that. [[User:The Retro Gamer|<span style="color:red;">--The</span>]] [[User talk:The Retro Gamer|<span style="color:green;">Retro</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/The Retro Gamer|<span style="color:blue;">Gamer</span>]] 00:36, 30 April 2018 (EDT) | :I was not aware of that option. I think that option would be the optimal outcome, solving the space issue completely. I'll add that to the list of options and add my vote to that. [[User:The Retro Gamer|<span style="color:red;">--The</span>]] [[User talk:The Retro Gamer|<span style="color:green;">Retro</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/The Retro Gamer|<span style="color:blue;">Gamer</span>]] 00:36, 30 April 2018 (EDT) | ||
::The collapsability changes nothing for me, as I still find it looks bad, and is a detrimental change in general. Enemy lists are too ''important'' to be relegated to the small text, particularly that is hidden. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 14:17, 30 April 2018 (EDT) | ::The collapsability changes nothing for me, as I still find it looks bad, and is a detrimental change in general. Enemy lists are too ''important'' to be relegated to the small text, particularly that is hidden. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 14:17, 30 April 2018 (EDT) | ||
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</pre>''"'' | </pre>''"'' | ||
However, I don't see why this is actually a template yet. It won't really hurt to add one (and [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive 44#Create a template for proposal outcomes|given the]] [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive 46#Expand the "Outcome template" rule to appeal outcomes|many prior proposals]] [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive 46#Create .7B.7BTPPDiscuss.7D.7D|to templatize certain]] [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive 51#Create a template for FA archives|repetitive features of the wiki]]), hence why I am proposing this. There are still many reviewers and aggregators out there, so it may take a while to add them in, but I've added quite a bit in the meantime. The only real problem is figuring out how to configure the URLs (since some links are inconsistent with others on the same site), but it's also something we can fix as we go on. | However, I don't see why this is actually a template yet. It won't really hurt to add one (and [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/44#Create a template for proposal outcomes|given the]] [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/46#Expand the "Outcome template" rule to appeal outcomes|many prior proposals]] [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/46#Create .7B.7BTPPDiscuss.7D.7D|to templatize certain]] [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/51#Create a template for FA archives|repetitive features of the wiki]]), hence why I am proposing this. There are still many reviewers and aggregators out there, so it may take a while to add them in, but I've added quite a bit in the meantime. The only real problem is figuring out how to configure the URLs (since some links are inconsistent with others on the same site), but it's also something we can fix as we go on. | ||
One big change that supersedes the original is listing the reviews and aggregators in respective alphabetical order. I think that's a good way to go since none of the other possible methods seem doable. | One big change that supersedes the original is listing the reviews and aggregators in respective alphabetical order. I think that's a good way to go since none of the other possible methods seem doable. | ||
| Line 699: | Line 700: | ||
====Comments==== | ====Comments==== | ||
I'm pretty split on this proposal. On one hand, I'm not a huge fan of copying this very specific table with its raw-coding displayed article to article to article but on the other hand, I just don't see too much benefit from creating a template out of this either because of the sheer number of variables this review table has, unlike the proposal outcome template which is far simpler to write out. I don't have particularly strong opinions either way, though I am leaning on support there because I also think displayed the raw coding for this table in our policy page looks really messy from our end. {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 22:43, 6 May 2018 (EDT) | I'm pretty split on this proposal. On one hand, I'm not a huge fan of copying this very specific table with its raw-coding displayed article to article to article but on the other hand, I just don't see too much benefit from creating a template out of this either because of the sheer number of variables this review table has, unlike the proposal outcome template which is far simpler to write out. I don't have particularly strong opinions either way, though I am leaning on support there because I also think displayed the raw coding for this table in our policy page looks really messy from our end. {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 22:43, 6 May 2018 (EDT) | ||
===Move [[:Category:Outer Space Locations]] to [[:Category:Cosmic Locations]], restrict the term "outer space" and other related terms, and add "outer space" to the list of frequently misused terms=== | |||
{{ProposalOutcome|passed|6-0|move the aforementioned category and restrict "outer space"}} | |||
Not too long ago, [[Category talk:Cosmic Locations#Change name to "Cosmic Locations"|a proposal]] was implemented to change the name of [[:Category:Outer Space Locations]] to [[:Category:Cosmic Locations]]. Such proposal was opposed to on the grounds that the term "is synonymous" and "it's a nice umbrella term". | |||
But I argue...not really. The proposer's request was perfectly rational, the rationales provided for the opposition were bad or otherwise not sufficient enough (no offense), and the proposal was overlooked. Here's why: | |||
*'''It may not be entirely inaccurate, but it's not entirely accurate either.''' As {{user|Super Radio}} (the original proposer) pointed out, the term "[[wiktionary:outer space|outer space]]" is specifically used to refer to the open, near-empty space outside the gravitational sphere of any celestial body. As far as I can tell, [[Outer Space]] from ''[[Super Paper Mario]]'', the locations in ''[[Super Mario Galaxy]]'' (including the [[Comet Observatory]] itself), the worlds of ''[[Super Mario Galaxy 2]]'', the last four worlds of ''[[Super Mario 3D World]]'', and [[Rainbow Road (Wii)|two incarnations]] [[Rainbow Road (Wii U)|of Rainbow Road]] are the only unambiguous examples. That's literally all. The majority of locations that are purported to be in outer space are heavily implied to be otherwise. [[Cosmic Adventure]], for example, is "said" to be in outer space despite specifically being defined as just a [[Mini-Land]] attraction; the "outer space" backdrop is just a backdrop, more or less. Some locations are also only temporarily in outer space, too. [[Peach's Castle]], for example, is pulled into outer space by [[Bowser]] and his minions in both ''[[Paper Mario]]'' and ''[[Super Mario Galaxy]]''. In the case of the former, [[Bowser's Castle]] is also temporarily in outer space! As {{user|Glowsquid}} once said, ''"Furthermore, why would you use an inaccurate and potentially misleading term when dozens of accurate, non-misleading alternatives exist?"'' | |||
*:'''Also see Super Radio's comment below. I think he explains it better than I can.''' | |||
*'''It's vague and scientifically incorrect.''' It boggles the information, without any real benefit to show for it. For example, "[[Superstar Road]] is accessed via a portal as this world is in deep space." Ignoring the thumbnail, what does "deep space" mean in this context anyway? Is it really ''in'' outer space? Or is it underground? Or does it merely have a cosmic backdrop? Example aside, what about the [[Mushroom World]] itself? Isn't it technically ''in'' outer space as well?! Restricting the term "outer space" (and "deep space" for that matter) in favor of the more specific term "cosmic" helps improve the sheer ambiguity and quality of the information. | |||
*'''As has been argued before and what will be argued again, the grandfather clause is never a good excuse, anywhere, ever.''' As you can see, "outer space" is just as questionable as other terms that '''used''' to be prevalent on the wiki, such as "beta" or "subspecies" (until they were restricted for their own inaccuracies). It feels like yet another wishy-washy stance of "we know it's bad, but we use it anyways because...stuff and things...I think", which should '''never ever''' be considered in professional writing circles. | |||
Basically, I'm proposing that we overturn the decision of the aforementioned proposal, restrict the term "outer space" in favor of "cosmic", and also add "outer space" to the [[MarioWiki:Good writing#Frequently misused terms|list of frequently misused terms]]. "[[wiktionary:cosmic|Cosmic]]" refers to something that ''merely'' appears to be in outer space but isn't always ''in'' outer space, and thus is more well-defined, clear-cut, and appropriate enough for any case. Yes, "cosmic" is clearly not ''THE perfect alternative'', but I have yet to find an even more suitable term that addresses the issues above. | |||
'''Proposer:''' {{User|Toadette the Achiever}}<br> | |||
'''Deadline:''' June 28, 2018, 23:59 GMT | |||
====Support==== | |||
#{{user|Toadette the Achiever}} Per proposal. | |||
#{{user|Super Radio}} Per proposal. See my comment. | |||
#{{user|Keegster2}} Both of you raise ''very'' valid points. Per Toadette and Super Radio. | |||
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|Yoshi the SSM}} See comments and per all. | |||
#{{User|Niiue}} Per all. | |||
====Oppose==== | |||
====Comments==== | |||
If you're wondering, "outer space" won't be restricted in places where it is ''legitimately'' referred to, as per the examples I mentioned above (and same as the other misused terms). | |||
Also, I'm going to respectfully go through the flaws of each counterargument in the previous proposal: | |||
*@Tucayo, TheFlameChomp, and Alex95: [[wiktionary:outer space|From]] [[wiktionary:cosmic|what]] I can make out of the Wiktionary entries, the two terms ''are'' related, but they're certainly not synonymous. | |||
*@MrConcreteDonkey: I'm trying to understand your vote...so are you saying that every location purported to be outer space ''is'' in outer space? Forgive me if I'm wrong, but to me, that sounds a bit...misleading, no? | |||
*@Doc von Schmeltwick: That's actually because [[40 Below Fridge|it]] technically ''is'' a snowscape, as the platforms are covered in snow. (To be honest, your vote wasn't half bad, it's just the example doesn't work for the reasons provided here.) | |||
*:@All five: Please try to keep these counterarguments in mind when voting here. | |||
:Lastly, if there's any term you think is more suitable than "cosmic", please feel free to let me know. Thanks! {{User:Toadette the Achiever/sig}} 09:13, 21 June 2018 (EDT) | |||
I would like to expand on this proposal with the analogy I made on Toadette the Achiever's talk page, hoping to further convince people that "Outer Space" is a gross term to use when referring to everything that is outside the planet of reference. (It's slightly edited.) | |||
<blockquote> | |||
We say that sattelites, planets, and other celestial bodies are in Outer Space because that is their greater location. Sort of like saying that Easter Island is in the middle of the Pacific. However, when talking about an object located ON said places we don't say that it's in Outer Space; it is on its carrier, which, yes, happens to be floating in space. Similarly, we don't say that those Moai head statues are found in the middle of the Pacific, but on an island in the middle of the Pacific. The same logic applies to [[X-Naut Fortress]], [[Lunar Colony]], [[Moon Kingdom]] and others. They are not exactly dipping into deep space, but the body they are on is. "Outer Space locations" is a very rough denominator to use for such places and it could technically be used for virtually any place in the Mushroom Kingdom. Since the scope of the Outer Space Locations category is currently everything outside of Mario's planet, and judging by some definitions of "cosmic", this would be a better term to encapsulate galaxies, planets and everything on them. | |||
</blockquote> | |||
-- {{User:Super Radio/Sig}} 09:58, 21 June 2018 (EDT) | |||
@Toadette the Achiever Is that snow? Or is that the similar-looking-yet-harder icy crust that always coats the bottom of a deep freeze? I mean, Snowman Wario is there, but that's triggered by stuff falling on him from above, where the ice consistency would probably be different anyways. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 15:12, 21 June 2018 (EDT) | |||
:You wouldn't name the interior of a fridge a "snowscape" under normal circumstances, but in the background of [[40 Below Fridge]] it actually appears to be snowing. I'm no expert in thermodynamics, but this strange phenomenon (for a fridge, at least) indicates that the icy coat might actually be, in fact, snow. -- {{User:Super Radio/Sig}} 15:34, 21 June 2018 (EDT) | |||
::And [[Slipslide Ride]]? That's a cave, so it's more than likely just ice. I'm neither opposing nor supporting at this moment, just throwing some things out there. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 15:42, 21 June 2018 (EDT) | |||
:::The platforms in [[Slipslide Ride]] appear to be littered with snow as well...at least that's what I think it is. {{User:Toadette the Achiever/sig}} 15:53, 21 June 2018 (EDT) | |||
::::Slipslide Ride is clearly not a snowscape though--you can't have snow without precipitations, which wouldn't naturally occur in an enclosed area, but 40 Below Fridge is an exception for some reason. Actually, I don't think it's wrong if we consider 40 Below Fridge an artificial snowscape :) -- {{User:Super Radio/Sig}} 15:59, 21 June 2018 (EDT) | |||
:::::Then again, there is ice in [[BLIZZARD!!!]] and [[Sand Kingdom]]'s underground areas. And in ''[[Super Mario Maker]]'' and [[Super Mario Maker for Nintendo 3DS|it's remake]], ice can be placed in a cave, a house, underwater, and a castle with lava. {{User:Yoshi the Space Station Manager/sig}} 16:18, 21 June 2018 (EDT) | |||
Also, I mentioned that this could be renamed to Space Locations. Is Cosmic better than Space? Because if it is, (and I will say this again) that category needs something done too. Although, the names snowscapes, subterrean areas, haunted places, forests and jungles, hotels and inns, and cities and towns are names give for broad terms of what they cover. And if this follows after that, Outer Space or Cosmic (for proposal purposes) can exist with the Space category. But, is Cosmic better than Space? {{User:Yoshi the Space Station Manager/sig}} 16:18, 21 June 2018 (EDT) | |||
:"Space" and "outer space" mean the same thing in this context. Sorry to disappoint you. {{User:Toadette the Achiever/sig}} 17:13, 21 June 2018 (EDT) | |||
::Looking at the [[:Category:Space|Space category]], it has objects that are either part of space, or native to space (e.g. [[Sticker Comet]]). I just can't see that category becoming Cosmic. But, this category becoming a object category??? I don't think so. {{User:Yoshi the Space Station Manager/sig}} 08:59, 26 June 2018 (EDT) | |||
:::What about areas like [[Gravity Galaxy]]? That area in particular appears to be set on an island instead. {{User:Toadette the Achiever/sig}} 09:24, 26 June 2018 (EDT) | |||
::::Yeah. Both Gravity Galaxy and Cosmic Adventure should be part of the category. They're space related but not space. It is a broad term that should be used for the category. And seeing this, I can support it fully. {{User:Yoshi the Space Station Manager/sig}} 09:41, 26 June 2018 (EDT) | |||
::::Also, I found the word "cosmos" in the Super Mario Galaxy 2 instruction book, which supports the move. {{User:Yoshi the Space Station Manager/sig}} 16:01, 26 June 2018 (EDT) | |||
===Change the way that recurring events in the Mario & Sonic series are handled=== | |||
{{ProposalOutcome|no quorum|1-2}} | |||
So, now that I've finished with the sponsors I've decided to move onto the Mario & Sonic series, starting with filling in some of the missing events. However, at the moment there isn't really much coverage of the series, and there's a bit of an issue with the way that some of the events are handled. Currently, events which have the same or very similar names are all listed on the same page, despite the fact that they differ significantly between games, and not only between the Wii/Wii U and DS/3DS versions. For example, the Trampoline event in the first DS game required certain patterns to be drawn with the stylus to perform various moves, whereas in the 2012 3DS game moves are performed automatically and the player must use the circle pad to keep their character within a certain area. This means that the infoboxes are overloaded with information and that the articles are just full of lots and lots of headers ([[Archery (event)]] is an example of this, and it still has a considerable amount of information missing). Therefore, I'm proposing that we split each game's version of the event into its own unique article, which only covers the event's appearance in the one game. Only the controls, missions, playable characters, etc. for one version of the event would be included on the page, with the identifier specifying the game if it only appears in one of the instalments for a specific year (Such as "Rings (Mario & Sonic at the London 2012 Olympic games)", which appears in the 3DS version but not the Wii one), or both the game and console if it appears in both (Such as "BMX (Mario & Sonic at the Rio 2016 Olympic Games (Nintendo 3DS))" and "BMX (Mario & Sonic at the Rio 2016 Olympic Games (Wii U))"). The shared name would be turned into a disambiguation page, listing all of the separate articles and any with similar names, such as 100m and 100m Dash, which would be separated as they have different names (This would also apply to any similarly named events, if the names are different they'll use the unique names instead of one with an identifier). An About template would be added to the top of name-sharing articles with a link to the disambiguation page for the other events or the events with a similar name. Events such as Balance Beam that only appear in one game will not be affected by this and will remain at the one name. | |||
So, in summary, each version of an event from each game is split and given game-specific identifiers, the shared title is turned into a disambiguation page and About templates are added, events with different names between versions go to the unique names and events that only appear once remain unchanged. | |||
'''Proposer:''' {{User|BBQ Turtle}}<br> | |||
'''Deadline:''' July 9, 2018, 23:59 GMT | |||
====Support==== | |||
#{{User|BBQ Turtle}} Per proposal. | |||
====Oppose==== | |||
#{{User|Super Radio}} see comment | |||
#{{User|Toadette the Achiever}} One look at [[Archery (event)]] said it all. Per Super Radio. | |||
====Comments==== | |||
The way I see it, there should only be one page for each event that keeps all game appearances under headers, with separate infoboxes and details for each. I think this unitary management would be a lot tidier--after all, these events read like [[MarioWiki:Generic subjects|generic subjects]] with differing functions from game to game, akin to [[Frog]]. Bloating article titles with kilometric identifiers would feel forced and unappealing. This aside, good luck! There's many things to cover and you did a great job so far on those sponsors. -- {{User:Super Radio/Sig}} 13:56, 2 July 2018 (EDT) | |||
:Though they may read as generic subjects now, that's something that's going to have to change in the future. They really need to be treated like minigames, as that's what they are and should be covered as. They're just based on Olympic events, some of them more closely than others (While 100m is usually pretty much identical, the Basketball in the 2012 3DS game is not even close to how the event plays), similar to how [[Pizza Me, Mario]] is loosely based on pizza making. When the articles are reworked, they will take more of a minigame focus than a real-life event one, similar to the current article for [[Dream Spacewalk]]. [[User:BBQ Turtle|BBQ Turtle]] ([[User talk:BBQ Turtle|talk]]) 16:11, 2 July 2018 (EDT) | |||
::I understand what you mean, but again, it's a matter of keeping the content organised. I said we should cover all "minigames" related to an event in a single page for that event because they all share the same name and they're singular in each game they appear in. [[Dream Spacewalk]], on the other hand, is part of a bigger set of [[Dream Event]] minigames from a particular game and requires a separate page. -- {{User:Super Radio/Sig}} 16:22, 2 July 2018 (EDT) | |||
:::Yes, but by that logic, the two [[Dust Buddies]] minigames should be covered on the same page, because they share the same name and are minigames based on vacuuming in both of their appearances. You can argue that they play differently, but then the same is true for the Mario & Sonic events. In fact, both Rhythmic Gymnastics events in the 2016 game are gymnastics floor events, but they are played completely differently and are different forms of the same event, so shouldn't be put together. And if we went with the current system, the two Rhythmic Ribbon events would get put in with the batons and hoops too, and they play differently yet again, even if we compare Wii to Wii U and the 3DS ones. We can't really apply different coverage strategies to the two series at random, because the thing that's keeping the Mario & Sonic ones together (Similar name and thing it's loosely based on) is ignored in the case of Mario Party. [[User:BBQ Turtle|BBQ Turtle]] ([[User talk:BBQ Turtle|talk]]) 16:40, 2 July 2018 (EDT) | |||
::::Yeah, about that... [[Dust Buddies (Mario Party DS)|One is a free-for-all minigame]] and [[Dust Buddies (Super Mario Party)|the other is 1-vs-3]]. That's why they're split. {{User:Toadette the Achiever/sig}} 16:56, 2 July 2018 (EDT) | |||
::::But the same could apply to Badminton, which has both Doubles and Singles, but by the current system these would share an article, on account of the fact they're similar and have similar names. Archery also comes under this, as the Team and Singles event would also get lumped together, despite being two separate events within the same game. [[User:BBQ Turtle|BBQ Turtle]] ([[User talk:BBQ Turtle|talk]]) 18:33, 2 July 2018 (EDT) | |||
:::::[[Dust Buddies]] isn't a real world subject. However, Olympic events are and they have different functions between the Mario & Sonic games, as you say. [[Frog]]s are also a real world subject and we don't split their page into separate articles for their Yoshi's Story, Luigi's Mansion 2, and Super Mario Odyssey appearances. There was actually a [[Talk:Frog|proposal]] to do so and it failed, and I'm using Walkazo's reasoning here too. Real world/generic subjects are simply a special case. -- {{User:Super Radio/Sig}} 17:01, 2 July 2018 (EDT) | |||
::::::I think [[Banana]] is a better example. The sheer complications of that page make it near impossible to split (keep in mind, there's not just one but ''two'' failed TPPs calling for a split). {{User:Toadette the Achiever/sig}} 17:07, 2 July 2018 (EDT) | |||
:::::::While I do understand what you're saying about the generic subject stuff, and I understand that these are derived from real-world events, I think we need to view this from more of a minigame point of view. The articles are not covering what the event is in great depth (Or at least, shouldn't be- if there are any like that, the amount is going down to a minimum when I get to that event), they are covering how you play it and other gameplay related details. And the events, while in some cases are similar (Such as most of the cycling ones), others are vastly different- for example, in the Marathon you win by collecting the most points from collecting water bottles, or earning extra points by performing handstands on your horse in Equestrian. | |||
:::::::I'd also like to add that currently some of the Dream Events are sharing articles, including [[Dream Long Jump]] and [[Dream Race]], which are not affected by the generic subjects policy, so what gets done about those? [[User:BBQ Turtle|BBQ Turtle]] ([[User talk:BBQ Turtle|talk]]) 18:33, 2 July 2018 (EDT) | |||
::::::::You have your points, but I'm still uncertain on adding identifiers like ''(Mario & Sonic at the Rio 2016 Olympic Games (3DS))'' to page titles. Regardless, if other people will agree that events should be treated more like game mechanics than real world representations, then I will reconsider my vote. The Dream Long John and Dream Race examples should definitely be taken into account. -- {{User:Super Radio/Sig}} 02:46, 3 July 2018 (EDT) | |||
:::::::::I'm perfectly fine with changing the identifiers, and would prefer to do so, I was putting those in as placeholder ones because I couldn't come up with anything better. I just can't think of any other ones right now personally, but suggestions are welcome. [[User:BBQ Turtle|BBQ Turtle]] ([[User talk:BBQ Turtle|talk]]) 04:26, 3 July 2018 (EDT) | |||
===Merge golf terms to {{fake link|List of golf terms}}=== | |||
{{ProposalOutcome|passed|8-0|merge}} | |||
We have a lot of articles from ''Mario Golf'' series that basically amount to [[MarioWiki:Generic subjects|generic subjects]]{{footnote|note|*}}. {{wp|Par (score)|Even Wikipedia doesn't have individual articles for every golf score}}, but we do! They play parts in the games, but pretty much in exactly the same ways as they do IRL. So round them up and stick them all on one page. | |||
This would affect [[Albatross]], [[Birdie]], [[Bogey]], [[Bunker (obstacle)]], [[Chip In]], [[Eagle]], [[Fairway]], [[Fast Fairway]], [[Flag Shot]], [[Flower Patch]], [[Green]], [[Hole-in-One]], [[Hole]], [[Nice Shot]], [[Out of Bounds]], [[Par]], [[Pin Shot]], [[Pin]], [[Rough]] and [[Tournament Green]] | |||
{{footnote|note|*|''Note:'' "Generic subjects are worthy of their own article if they meet any of the following criteria...The subject is significant to the gameplay. '''This does not apply to sports games.'''"}} | |||
'''Proposer''': {{User|Reboot}}<br> | |||
'''Deadline''': July 9, 2018, 23:59 GMT | |||
====Support==== | |||
#{{User|Reboot}} I approve this message. | |||
#{{User|Toadette the Achiever}} Per Reboot. | |||
#{{User|7feetunder}} Per proposal. | |||
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|Owencrazyboy9}} Per all. Would be preferred if the page were named "Golf Glossary" and have the terms from the 3DS game, plus the other terms that aren't listed on that glossary in the game. | |||
#{{User|Boo4761}} Per proposal. | |||
#{{User|YoshiEgg1990}} Per proposal. | |||
#{{User|Yoshi the SSM}} Per proposal. | |||
====Oppose==== | |||
====Comments==== | |||
I am fine with either option. However, I am not voting for either, yet. I want to point out a few problems with the proposal. However, if these are address, then I can easily vote for it. | |||
*First, there are more terms that can be added to the list. Yet, unlike the already existing articles, they aren't really notable. However, there are tons of these that can be added. Here's just a few: Address, Lost Ball (although not possible in World Tour at least), Shot Maker, Slice, Tee Off, Yips, Club Championship, Double Peoria, Unplayable, 1W, PW, and Tee Marker. | |||
*Second, they are not all terms. Even the ones that already have articles. Some are rules, and other gears (though the later only applies to non-existing articles only). Mario Golf: World Tour has a Golf Glossary, so if we don't break all these up by terms, rules, and gear (call that in said game), I think this name should do it. {{User:Yoshi the Space Station Manager/sig}} | |||
''Wario Land 3'' isn't a sports game, but a few of those things exist in it. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 16:45, 2 July 2018 (EDT) | |||
@Owencrazyboy9: It'd probably by "Golf glossary" since it's not meant to be a proper term. {{User:Toadette the Achiever/sig}} 22:46, 2 July 2018 (EDT) | |||
:It '''is''' called Golf Glossary in the game. I can't find any instance of golf glossary or GOLF GLOSSARY, so it's most likely unnecessary to have that as a redirect. {{User:Yoshi the Space Station Manager/sig}} 23:02, 2 July 2018 (EDT) | |||
::All right, then. If this proposal passes, '''Golf Glossary''' it is. – [[User:Owencrazyboy9|Owencrazyboy9]] ([[User talk:Owencrazyboy9|talk]]) 23:06, 2 July 2018 (EDT) | |||
:::Umm...not your proposal :p | |||
:::More seriously, while I'm not deeply wedded to the title I suggested, which is something of a placeholder, it is '''not''' an article about the Golf Glossary mode in MG:WT, it's a list of golfing terms which has some overlap with what is covered in that mode, so it would be inaccurate to label it as such. The name pretty much has to start "List of..." - [[User:Reboot|Reboot]] ([[User talk:Reboot|talk]]) 00:03, 3 July 2018 (EDT) | |||
::::Yeah. List of golf terms sounds good. However, with very likely over 500 terms (including rules and gear), World Tour's Golf Glossary will be where most of the info will come from. Even if you don't use that game, it should have all the terms from it. So, maybe Golf Glossary could redirect to the article? {{User:Yoshi the Space Station Manager/sig}} 00:48, 3 July 2018 (EDT) | |||
===Real World Subjects vs. Real World Terms=== | |||
{{ProposalOutcome|canceled}} | |||
A recurring trend on this wiki is to create articles on real-world terms, such as [[Genre]], [[Level]], and [[Pre-release and unused content]]. I know we've said something like this in [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/27#Reality vs. Fiction|the first proposal aimed at reducing ''generic'' subjects]], but allowing these articles as precedents would lead to further unnecessary articles, such as {{fake link|Episode}}, {{fake link|Map}}, {{fake link|Cutscene}}...the list goes on. {{wp|Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not a dictionary|Keep in mind that wikis are not dictionaries}}, and we don't necessarily ''need'' articles on those subjects, same as the generic subjects. Therefore, in a similar vein to the generic subjects proposal I linked to, I propose that we allow articles on real-world terms '''only if they have a function or purpose that makes them unique and discernible from the way the term is applied elsewhere'''. | |||
The following are examples of real-world terms that would be '''allowed''': | |||
*[[Cheat code]] – The cheat codes and their effects vary per game; ''[[New Super Mario Bros.]]''{{'}}s is a simple button hold that allows [[Luigi]] as a playable character, whereas ''[[Donkey Kong Country 3: Dixie Kong's Double Trouble!]]''{{'}}s has a cheats section where the player can enter five-letter code words to drastically change the gameplay (for example, typing "COLOR" in the SNES version gives Dixie and Kiddy a palette swap). | |||
*[[Game Over]] – The Game Over screens are entirely unique for each game, and Game Overs aren't just achievable by "losing". ''[[Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door]]'', for example, has a Game Over that occurs by making the mistake of reading [[Ghost T.]]'s [[Ragged Diary|diary]]. | |||
*[[Easter egg]] – Same as cheat code. | |||
*[[Fourth wall]] – Fourth wall breaks occur very often in the ''Mario'' universe, such as how in ''[[Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam]]'', [[Starlow]] references the [[Year of Luigi]] when [[Luigi]] is otherwise alone in west [[Gloomy Woods]] thanks to [[King Boo]] (''"You had, like, a whole YEAR named after you!"''), or how in ''[[Paper Mario: Color Splash]]'', [[Huey]] makes a remark when he sees the final memory revealing that [[Bowser]] had accidentally created his [[black paint]] [[Black Bowser|alter-ego]], ''""You're telling me we could have avoided this entire game if we just installed a "Don't Mix the Paint" sign?!"''. | |||
*[[Unrevisitable area]] – Same as fourth wall. | |||
The following are examples of real-world terms that would be '''forbidden''': | |||
*[[Glitch]] – They are recurring, but they don't differentiate enough in concept from glitches in other franchises. | |||
*[[Level]] – There's nothing different about the concept of levels in the ''Mario'' franchise. You play them, you beat them, you move on to the next level. It's the same thing. | |||
*[[Genre]] – Genres in the ''Mario'' franchise are conceptually no different from genres elsewhere. | |||
*[[Pre-release and unused content]] – Every work of fiction has cut content. What makes ''Mario'' games so different? | |||
The targeted pages will be merged into the [[MarioWiki:Glossary|glossary]] should this proposal pass. | |||
Also if this proposal passes, I will begin drafting some text to add to the [[MarioWiki:Generic subjects|generic subjects policy]], which I will propose later on. | |||
'''Proposer:''' {{user|Toadette the Achiever}}<br> | |||
'''Deadline:''' July 16, 2018, 23:59 GMT | |||
'''Date Withdrawn:''' July 12, 2018, 02:05 GMT | |||
====Support==== | |||
#{{User|Toadette the Achiever}} Per proposal. | |||
====Oppose==== | |||
#{{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}} Your reasons seem a little too subjective for comfort. There are plenty examples of unique takes on the latter terms in various games, particularly with what the concept of what defines a "world" vs. a "level," and what a "minigame" truly is. Plus, better way to differentiate from the (trademarked? patented?) "Microgames." And why is the concept of a minigame any more notable than the concept of a game over? Sure, there are special cases, but having "unconventional" game overs is [https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NonstandardGameOver fairly common.] Not to mention, once again, what makes the non-standard game overs more notable than the non-standard definition of a "world" vs. a "level?" The cardinal regions of ''Wario Land 3'' provide a decent example of this, and the arguable "areas between Bowser fights in ''Super Mario 64''" can also be seen as an example of this, as it fits most definitions of a "world," but is very unconventional. I suppose the domes in ''Super Mario Galaxy'' also should count here. | |||
#{{User|SeanWheeler}} I would prefer if the [[Glitch]] and [[Pre-release and unused content]] would be lists or something. And besides, those "forbidden" pages you listed have a Mario focus. | |||
#{{User|Supermariofan67}} Per all. | |||
====Comments==== | |||
@Doc von Schmeltwick: Like I said, I'm open to simply merging the terms into the glossary, depending on if it would be better. As it stands, the latter terms basically repeat information found elsewhere, and for what it's worth, I wouldn't mind seeing {{fake link|List of minigames}} as a page. {{User:Toadette the Achiever/sig}} 15:51, 9 July 2018 (EDT) | |||
I partly agree and partly disagree with this one, so I thought I'd share my thoughts here. I agree that Glitch, Genre and anything similar should go, but I'm not so sure about the other three, particularly Minigame, which, while it needs some work, still contains a lot of valid and Mario-specific content (Especially the Mario Party stuff). I think getting rid of some of the pages like this is the right thing to do, and I'm definitely on board with that, but I don't quite agree on exactly what needs to go, which is why I'm not voting. [[User:BBQ Turtle|BBQ Turtle]] ([[User talk:BBQ Turtle|talk]]) 17:03, 10 July 2018 (EDT) | |||
:@BBQ Turtle: To answer your question, not all of these pages will be outright removed, and each one will be determined on a case-by-case basis. You ''do'' bring up a good point, though, so I'll edit this proposal to avoid further confusion on the matter. {{User:Toadette the Achiever/sig}} 17:11, 10 July 2018 (EDT) | |||
===Add a sentence to {{tem|aboutfile-reminder}} and {{tem|imagecategory-reminder}} stating that if the user ingores them, a warning will be issued=== | |||
{{ProposalOutcome|passed|12-0|change templates}} | |||
Well, i saw a user who got warned because he/she ingored these templates. However, the templates don't say that a user can get a warning for ingoring them; and {{tem|reminder}} has a setence: "If the action continues, than a warning will be issued", so i believe it's acceptable to put this in these two templates as well. | |||
Here's what i want it to look like: | |||
{| id="w" width="100%" style="background: transparent;" | |||
| valign="top" width="50%" style="background: white; color:black; border: 2px solid green; padding: .5em 1em; -moz-border-radius: 1em"| | |||
Hello, {{BASEPAGENAME}}. Good job on your [[Special:ListFiles/{{BASEPAGENAME}}|recent uploads]]. But when uploading files, keep in mind that you must correctly use the {{tem|aboutfile}} template. What you were doing looks like {{plain link|1=[http://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=&oldid=1257973#Summary this]}}, and it is an inconvenience for other users to fix up the template. It is simple to learn how to format it correctly. The pre-loaded coding is shown below. | |||
<pre>{{aboutfile | |||
|1=Subject of the image | |||
|2=Where you found the image | |||
|3=Artist | |||
|4=Describe edits, if any | |||
|5=Other versions (use file link) | |||
}}</pre> | |||
Just replace the necessary parts with that corresponding information, and remove the entire line of the variable(s) you don't use. If you do not wish to use the template at all, then it is acceptable to simply remove it before you upload the file. Please consider the above information before uploading more files. '''If you continue using {{tem|aboutfile}} incorrectly, then a warning will be issued'''. Thank you for reading, and keep contributing. | |||
|} | |||
{| id="w" width="100%" style="background: transparent;" | |||
| valign="top" width="50%" style="background: white; color:black; border: 2px solid blue; padding: .5em 1em; -moz-border-radius: 1em"| | |||
Hello, {{BASEPAGENAME}}. Good job on your [[Special:ListFiles/{{BASEPAGENAME}}|recent uploads]]. But when uploading files, keep in mind that you must correctly [[MarioWiki:Categories|categorize]] the file. It is simple to learn how to correctly do so. Just search for the correct category by starting with the following groups: | |||
{| | |||
!Images | |||
!Audio/Video Files | |||
|- | |||
| | |||
*[[:Category:Images by company|Images by company]] | |||
*[[:Category:Images by film|Images by film]] | |||
*[[:Category:Images by game|Images by game]] | |||
*[[:Category:Images by publication|Images by publication]] | |||
*[[:Category:Images by system|Images by system]] | |||
*[[:Category:Images by television series|Images by television series]] | |||
*[[:Category:Images by merchandise|Images by merchandise]] | |||
| | |||
*[[:Category:Media files by company|Media files by company]] | |||
*[[:Category:Media files by film|Media files by film]] | |||
*[[:Category:Media files by game|Media files by game]] | |||
*[[:Category:Media files by publication|Media files by publication]] | |||
*[[:Category:Media files by system|Media files by system]] | |||
*[[:Category:Media files by television series|Media files by television series]] | |||
*[[:Category:Media files by merchandise|Media files by merchandise]] | |||
|} | |||
When [[Special:Upload|uploading]], copy the full title of the category with square brackets, and insert it into the summary text box (below the {{tem|aboutfile}} template), replacing the {{tem|uncategorized}} template. For example, files related to the game ''[[Super Mario World]]'' would use: | |||
<pre>[[Category:Super Mario World Images]]</pre> or <pre>[[Category:Super Mario World Media Files]]</pre> | |||
Please consider the above information before uploading more files. Keep in mind some files can belong to multiple categories. Don't put images into media categories and vise-versa. '''If you continue uploading files without categorizing them correctly, then a warning will be issued'''. Thank you for reading, and keep contributing. | |||
|} | |||
'''Proposer''': {{User|YoshiEgg1990}}<br> | |||
'''Deadline''': July 16, 2018, 23:59 GMT | |||
====Support==== | |||
#{{User|YoshiEgg1990}} Per my proposal and per Owencrazyboy9. | |||
#{{User|Toadette the Achiever}} I don't see the harm in doing this. Per proposal. | |||
#{{User|Owencrazyboy9}} Would be helpful if the template points it out, instead of us users having to keep reminding them about this, so per all. | |||
#{{user|Wildgoosespeeder}} Both templates are a {{tem|reminder}} derivative, so yeah, put that disclosure in there. | |||
#{{User|Yoshi the SSM}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|Boo4761}} It's the same thing as a reminder, so I don't see why not. | |||
#{{User|Alex95}} - Sounds good to me. | |||
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Makes sense to me, since both are types of reminders. I have seen both warnings and reminders given out before, so it should help with consistency in what is received. | |||
#{{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}} Wouldn't be particularly obvious to new users, in most cases. | |||
#{{user|Mario jc}} Sure. | |||
#{{User|YoshiFlutterJump}} I don't see why not, so per all. | |||
#{{User|Mister Wu}} Definitely better to specify what are the consequences of ignoring the reminders. | |||
====Oppose==== | |||
====Comments==== | |||
Perhaps {{tem|warning}} can be linked to? {{User:Alex95/sig}} 14:52, 13 July 2018 (EDT) | |||
:I doon't think so. The point of this is basiclly to let people know that they will get warned if they continue; i don't think it's necesary to say how excatly they will be warned. {{User:YoshiEgg1990/sig}} 15:19, 13 July 2018 (EDT) | |||