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MarioWiki:Featured articles/Unfeature/N1/Super Mario 3D World: Difference between revisions
MarioWiki:Featured articles/Unfeature/N1/Super Mario 3D World (edit)
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===[[{{#titleparts:{{PAGENAME}}||4}}]]=== | ===[[{{#titleparts:{{PAGENAME}}||4}}]]=== | ||
{{ | {{fa-archive | ||
|nominated=14:44, 24 November 2017 (EST) | |nominated=14:44, 24 November 2017 (EST) | ||
|passed= | |passed=21:20, 1 January 2018 | ||
|unfeature=yes | |||
}} | }} | ||
==== Remove featured article status ==== | ==== Remove featured article status ==== | ||
#{{User|Time Turner}} The intro is extremely short, several tables are incompatible with mobile, and the images are distractingly inconsistent between each other, alternating between [[:File:Blue Ant Artwork - Super Mario 3D World.png|actual artwork]] and screenshots both [[:File: | #{{User|Time Turner}} The intro is extremely short, several tables are incompatible with mobile, and the images are distractingly inconsistent between each other, alternating between [[:File:Blue Ant Artwork - Super Mario 3D World.png|actual artwork]] and screenshots both [[:File:SM3DW Brolder Blockade.png|with]] and [[:File:SM3DW Charvaarghs Screenshot.png|without]] HUDs (not to mention how [[:File:Cat Bullet Bill.png|quite]] a [[:File:Blockstepper.png|few]] images [[:File:Fuzzler.png|are]] low [[:File:Skipsqueak.png|quality]]). | ||
#{{User|Baby Luigi}} Per Time Turner. The intro needs to be expanded a lot more than this, the bare bones amount of information especially for the infobox, as it was one of the shining examples of bad intros in [https://www.marioboards.com/index.php?topic=38897.0 this thread]. The enemies and objects table is especially incompatible with mobile, if you want to make it less of a scroll fest, the best you could do is to decrease sizes of images. | #{{User|Baby Luigi}} Per Time Turner. The intro needs to be expanded a lot more than this, the bare bones amount of information especially for the infobox, as it was one of the shining examples of bad intros in [https://www.marioboards.com/index.php?topic=38897.0 this thread]. The enemies and objects table is especially incompatible with mobile, if you want to make it less of a scroll fest, the best you could do is to decrease sizes of images. | ||
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per Time Turner. | #{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per Time Turner. | ||
#{{User|LuigiMaster123}} Per all. | #{{User|LuigiMaster123}} Per all. | ||
#{{User|Toadette the Achiever}} Per all. | #{{User|Toadette the Achiever}} Per all. | ||
==== Keep featured article status ==== | ==== Keep featured article status ==== | ||
<s>#{{User|Super Radio}} The only thing the intro is missing to become on-par with the Wikipedia counterpart is information on the game's plot. I don't see what's wrong with enemy tables. I can see how, for mobile users, it might get tedious to scroll through long columns of squeezed text, but this is a silly excuse for an unfeature, as that issue didn't stop articles like ''[[Donkey Kong Country]]'', ''[[Donkey Kong 64]]'' from becoming featured. It seems to me that the problem is more on the design of the device than anything else. Not to mention that mobile phones can be turned 90 degrees to widen paragraphs.</s> | |||
==== Removal of support/oppose votes ==== | ==== Removal of support/oppose votes ==== | ||
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::I thought that everything that was a problem except for the intro was fixed. Other people have fixed up the tables to be compatible with mobile systems, and the writing has improved a little bit. I don't know if it's just me, but I wish that we would be more specific with regards to where exactly the problems are with these articles. {{User:Lcrossmk8/sig}} 15:59, 21 December 2017 (EST) | ::I thought that everything that was a problem except for the intro was fixed. Other people have fixed up the tables to be compatible with mobile systems, and the writing has improved a little bit. I don't know if it's just me, but I wish that we would be more specific with regards to where exactly the problems are with these articles. {{User:Lcrossmk8/sig}} 15:59, 21 December 2017 (EST) | ||
:::I can't really say what an intro needs aside from looking at how other articles do it as an example. Not to mention, there are still two more improvement tags further down: one for the reception section and another for the media missing tag. While the latter was added pretty recently and applies to way too much featured articles right now, we can't feature the article with a reception section like that. It definitely needs expansion to be on par with, again, how other featured articles do it recently. {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 16:11, 21 December 2017 (EST) | :::I can't really say what an intro needs aside from looking at how other articles do it as an example. Not to mention, there are still two more improvement tags further down: one for the reception section and another for the media missing tag. While the latter was added pretty recently and applies to way too much featured articles right now, we can't feature the article with a reception section like that. It definitely needs expansion to be on par with, again, how other featured articles do it recently. {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 16:11, 21 December 2017 (EST) | ||
@Super Radio: What about the game's reception and media sections? They have an improvement tag, and articles shouldn't be featured with them. Granted, the media-needed tag was added far too post-humously, but I feel like we can't feature an article with a reception section that's pretty much the bare minimum. {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 16:41, 21 December 2017 (EST) | |||
:Correct. I didn't "read the article completely, keeping a sharp eye out for mistakes". Both improvement tags have to go. Is there a possibility to remove my vote? -- {{User:Super Radio/Sig}} 16:56, 21 December 2017 (EST) | |||
@Lcrossmk8: I appreciate the initiative to expand the reception section, however that doesn't seem to solve the problem. You only re-iterated what's already stated in the table underneath... -- {{User:Super Radio/Sig}} 17:02, 21 December 2017 (EST) | |||
::You're free to remove your vote but I have other issues with your vote. I'll copy and paste my original vote to remove reason: "The article has to have absolutely no major problems in order for it to remain featured. Saying in your opposition to the nomination talking about a frankly major issue is a reason to strip away the nomination rather than let it remain. Additionally, your comment fails to address the two improvement tags further down the article, a big one regarding the reception section, which I believe is far too generic and simple for it to be on the same quality as other articles who have more detail and effort put into their reception sections. The game additionally fails to note how well it sold for a Wii U game, which is very major for this article considering it's a mainstream Mario series article and that usually gets a lot of sales and media attention due to it. Also, while it is true that mobile devices can be turned 90 degrees, ads on the sidebars smash the page even further if you're reading anonymously, to the point where information on the rightmost cells in the enemy tables get cut-off entirely and thus rendering those areas inaccessible for mobile viewers." | |||
::I'll also write the intro, to show you how I want the intro to be done. {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 17:03, 21 December 2017 (EST) | |||
:@Super Radio: Not completely. I added in a new quote from the IGN reviewer. I've got more coming up, so stay tuned, ladies and gentlemen. {{User:Lcrossmk8/sig}} 17:04, 21 December 2017 (EST) | |||
@Baby Luigi: [[:File:SuperRadio1.png|As]] [[:File:SuperRadio2.png|you]] [[:File:SuperRadio3.png|can]] [[:File:SuperRadio4.png|see]], I don't have a problem with ads on either of my browsers (Chrome on the first three, Samsung Browser on the fourth), browsing anonymously on both of course. So I don't know what you're talking about. From personal experience I can say that navigating these otherwise long tables isn't such an issue, as I can easily sidescroll them if they do not fit on the whole screen. -- {{User:Super Radio/Sig}} 17:25, 21 December 2017 (EST) | |||
:I forgot to mention that those ads can be collapsed. What if it's a problem on specific phones only? -- {{User:Super Radio/Sig}} 17:34, 21 December 2017 (EST) | |||
The intro's going to be fine, Baby Luigi, I checked it myself. It's top notch, and just how I like it. {{User:Lcrossmk8/sig}} 17:28, 21 December 2017 (EST) | |||
:I am still not convinced that the reception section is good enough. You added the opinion of one reviewer who doesn't appear in the table, said that it's a new quote and called it a day. The rest of the paragraph is a repetition of what is already in the table. For what I find to be a good model for a reception section, see ''[[Mario Sports Superstars]]''. There, reviews from multiple gaming sites are summarised and quoted selectively. The tables serve as a list of verdict opinions from reviewers whose work was summarised in the preceding paragraph, otherwise they wouldn't be there. -- {{User:Super Radio/Sig}} 17:47, 21 December 2017 (EST) | |||
::Uh, if you have not noticed already, I already have multiple sources written in the reception section. I didn't just take from the table, you know. Look at it again. {{User:Lcrossmk8/sig}} 17:52, 21 December 2017 (EST) | |||
:::Sorry, I tend to ignore things (it happened above too). But the quote from GameSpot still appears in both places. -- {{User:Super Radio/Sig}} 17:57, 21 December 2017 (EST) | |||
::::I will rewrite the intro section regardless. {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 18:12, 21 December 2017 (EST) | |||
::As I'm not a regular/active editor here anymore, I'm not going to vote since there is the possibility of me not logging again after it, but...Well, there are a few things that bothers me with this article starting with the fact that it became a "table fest", and that is not good. Looking at other Mario games articles such as [[Super Mario Land]] and [[Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars]] there wasn't a heavy need of tables to describe the article. What's with the Enemies Tables? Can't we just link to their pages? They will already describe what they are and/or do...Same for Power-ups and Items I guess? The supporting cast also doesntneed really need a table (althought I don't see a big problem here), we already know trought the Story section what the Sprixie Princesses are, for example. For the worlds a simple list like the one used on [[Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars]] with small descriptions would be okay, althought the Worlds table isnt as bad as the others. The character table is the only one that I think it is good, althought the formatting used by...2013 (?) was more optmized (vertical oriented). The article has nice info, specially the gameplay section, but it is outshined by those thousand big tables.{{User:Ashley anEoTselkie/sig}} 18:20, 21 December 2017 (EST) | |||
:::But SMRPG isn't featured. Worlds and enemies are required to have both images and small snippets of information in a featured article. -- {{User:Super Radio/Sig}} 18:26, 21 December 2017 (EST) | |||
:::The reason I like using tables because they're an excellent way to convey information. Not only can you describe how an enemy does in some detail, but there's a corresponding image that illustrates said enemy to viewers who may not know the enemy's name nor what they look like. I also wouldn't use [[Super Mario RPG: Legend of Seven Stars]] as a barometer of how good articles are, personally, [[MarioWiki:Featured articles/Unfeature/N1/Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars|I found that article to be very devoid of content, barren and has a load of other issues]]. I do have to agree that maybe the tables on the list of enemies can get a little excessive, though, since there's a lot of enemies and it's a headache scrolling through them. {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 18:30, 21 December 2017 (EST) | |||
::::Sorry to bother again, but what is your opinion on the ad issue, now that I showed you that I don't really have it on my phone? -- {{User:Super Radio/Sig}} 18:32, 21 December 2017 (EST) | |||
:::::It's definitely a problem on my phone. I use a Windows phone with Internet Explorer browser, and the right-most cell definitely gets cut off. If there's a problem on someone's end, I think it should be addressed, and I don't think my type of phone is even that rare. {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 18:38, 21 December 2017 (EST) | |||
:::I agree with you. This seems very controversial, however, and many users seem to like the tables despite them making the page very long and slow. I [https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=User:Supermariofan67/Sandbox1&oldid=2359062 tried to make a glossary list] like we have in many other game articles such as [[Super Mario 64]], but it was undone. --{{User:Supermariofan67/sig}} 18:33, 21 December 2017 (EST) | |||
::::You can't just remove the descriptions. There should be a balance of some sort, but I think there's no better way than to leave the tables as they are. If we were to format them like on the [[DKC]] articles, for instance, I imagine we would only bloat them even more. Besides, not ''all'' mobile users have an issue with them being smashed by ads as Baby Luigi said (see my comment above). -- {{User:Super Radio/Sig}} 18:39, 21 December 2017 (EST) | |||
::::I have a powerful computer and a quick internet, so it's not that much of a problem for me, and I personally prefer descriptions of enemies since it makes articles funner to read, but I can understand why some would opt for galleries, especially with the increasing number of items and objects that will further elongate the article. {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 18:40, 21 December 2017 (EST) | |||
:::::A solution would be to make a separate page for enemies. [[List of enemies in Super Mario 3D World]]. I can't remember exactly, but somewhere in the guidelines it even says that if an article is too long, it should be split -- {{User:Super Radio/Sig}} 18:43, 21 December 2017 (EST) | |||
::::::I see your point @Baby Luigi, SMRPG page might not be the best content-wise, but I guess the HUD looks better on it. But like @SuperMarioFan67, I guess we could find an in-between tables and lists, like they did. The enemies one specially. Like I said, the world and character tables are okay. I myself am not much of a fan of the power-up ones, but they seem okay as well. But the enemies one is too big. Looking again at the article, I think what ''could'' help would be inserting some text in between the section and the tables. For example, between the bosses and power-up tables the lack of text makes it somewhat..."weird" to read. Or maybe adding sub-pages for enemies woul clean it all easier and faster for people with problems with PC/internet. {{User:Ashley anEoTselkie/sig}} 18:48, 21 December 2017 (EST) | |||
A bit of info regarding the media tag: [[User talk:Porplemontage#Proposal on FLAC|current techical issues that will need at least a few months to be dealt with]] prevent the introduction of FLAC which I think would be preferable for a few (maybe even all) types of media content to be uploaded in that section. Considering also how widespread that tag is on the wiki, its role as a point leading to the unfeaturing of the page should be discussed, in my opinion.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 18:46, 21 December 2017 (EST) | |||
:I say that tag should play a role only in new featured articles. We shouldn't bend backwards and unfeature everything prior to the tag's introduction because I think that would be insane. {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 18:54, 21 December 2017 (EST) | |||
For the tables, I [https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Super_Mario_3D_World&oldid=2360494 tried using galleries instead], but it was controversial. It is good because it is shorter, more compatible, and IMO it is not necessary to have the descriptions (is [[SMW:ONCE]] relevant?). It is bad because it does not have the descriptions and is long when viewed on mobile, but at least it does work. Maybe I should make a TPP for it. I agree that the tables suck and need to be changed, but we can't seem to agree on a good solution. Any ideas on what should be done? --{{User:Supermariofan67/sig}} 23:01, 1 January 2018 (EST) | |||
:imo, the tables don't need to be overly complicated. A simple chart will do: Name, image, summary, level locations maybe, then move to the next enemy down. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 23:07, 1 January 2018 (EST) | |||