Talk:Fruit (Yoshi food): Difference between revisions

Talk:Fruit (Yoshi food) (edit)

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Arend moved page Talk:Berry to Talk:Fruit (Yoshi food): As per proposal

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 ==New name==
-{{talk}}
 In the years since the above proposal, we've had five sources that state that these are now known as Fruit including two in-game names (Super Mario Odyssey's Fruit-Collecting Missions and 8 Deluxe's Fruit Cup). I say we should move these to Fruit (Yoshi) or Fruit (Yoshi Food) on account of Fruit being the most recent, in-game name. [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 08:56, August 12, 2022 (EDT)
 :Agreed. These things look much more like apples than true berries, anyways, and AFAIK berry was only used in ''one'' source. {{User:Somethingone/sig}} 09:38, August 12, 2022 (EDT)
 ::Well, if any of you want to start a new proposal about it, then go ahead. It's been three years since that proposal, so more than enough time has passed for it to be overturned. I am definitely in agreement that it should be moved to {{fake link|Fruit (Yoshi food)}} or even {{fake link|Yoshi Fruit}}. Frankly, I'm surprised that it's not listed in the About section on top of the [[Fruit]] article yet. [[User:Arend|Arend]] ([[User talk:Arend|talk]]) 04:27, September 3, 2022 (EDT)
+== Rename to Fruit (with an identifier): Round 2 ==
+{{SettledTPP}}
+{{ProposalOutcome|passed|6-3-0|rename}}
+See all discussions above. It's been a couple years since a previous proposal about renaming "Berry" to "Fruit", which had failed back then. But as time passes, it becomes more and more obvious that Nintendo wants to refer these things as fruits rather than berries. ''[[Super Mario Galaxy 2]]'' calls these "fruits". ''[[New Super Mario Bros. U]]'' calls these "fruits". ''[[Super Mario Odyssey]]'' calls these "fruits". [[LEGO Super Mario]] calls these "fruits". Even the [[Mario Kart 8 Deluxe – Booster Course Pass|Booster Course Pass]] from ''[[Mario Kart 8 Deluxe]]'' calls the Fruit Cup the "Fruit Cup" and not the "Berry Cup". And ''[[Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam]]'', which actually ''does'' have something called berries, doesn't even feature the same design: as you can see in [https://youtu.be/abEPnyj5Ppo this video], the berries in ''Paper Jam'' look completely different and might as well be split off.
+This really only gives us two instances in which these fruits are actually called berries: the ''Mario Mania'' guide for ''[[Super Mario World]]'' (which are promptly called "apples" instead in ''Nintendo Power''), and the European version of ''[[Puzzle & Dragons: Super Mario Bros. Edition]]'' (in which the American version calls them... "fruits"; not to mention that this was the last appearance of the [[:File:PDSMBE-Berry.png|spotted design]] from the ''Super Mario World'' artwork rather than the more apple-like design from the ''Super Mario World'' sprites that were already in use since ''[[New Super Mario Bros. Wii]]'').
+And to top it all off, literally every language listed [[Berry#Names in other languages|here]] calls them "fruits" in some way (including Japanese). In fact, all but two of them ''exclusively'' calls them "fruits" rather than "berries"; seemingly, only Spanish and Italian used both.
+So all of this is pretty straightforward evidence that this article should be moved to "Fruit", but as you may know, we already have an article on [[Fruit]] in general; Fruit in general that also have made important appearances in various games. Meaning that we should rename it to "fruit" with an identifier, and then it becomes difficult what identifier to use.
+To me, the simplest and clearest would be {{fake link|Fruit (Yoshi food)}}, as most of the time, the games only allow Yoshis to eat/collect them. Alternatively, one can call them {{fake link|Yoshi Fruit}} instead, which gives these fruits a clearer distinction (not to mention it also matches a more current Japanese name), but it's not used as often. Personally, I'm fine with either option.
+'''Proposer''': {{User|Arend}}<br>
+'''Deadline''': September 21, 2022, 23:59 GMT
+====Rename to "Fruit (Yoshi food)"====
+#{{User|Arend}} Primary choice, per proposal
+#{{User|Archivist Toadette}} Also my primary choice, since unlike [[Yoshi's Egg]], they're pretty much known as "fruits" in every single English-language source. Also, the [[Fruit]] article can be dealt with in a separate proposal if we absolutely must do so.
+#{{User|Nintendo101}} Per proposal. Even if I am personally partial to "Yoshi Fruit", the source material clearly prefers "Fruit".
+#{{User|Hewer}} Per proposal.
+#{{user|WildWario}} Per proposal.
+#{{User|ThePowerPlayer}} Per proposal.
+====Rename to "Yoshi Fruit"====
+#{{User|Arend}} Secondary choice, per proposal
+#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} My pick as unique names are generally less confusing than identifiers, and it's not like we rename Yoshi's Egg to "Egg (Yoshi)" whenever there's a new game that only refers to them as eggs.
+#{{User|Killer Moth}} Per LinkTheLefty
+====Keep it as is====
+====Comments====
+I'm not sure if the identifier is the best one to use but this thing highly overlaps with the the generic fruit in terms of function that it's kind of hard giving it a satisfactory article name. Yoshi fruit doesn't occur as often as I like, one being in a Prima guide, another being derived from a file name from Odyssey. {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 20:40, September 7, 2022 (EDT)
+:Yeah... like I stated, it's kind of difficult what identifier to use here. The ones I suggested are probably the best ones I could come up with, but if anyone can come up with something even better, they can suggest it right here.<br>Alternatively, this article could just be named {{fake link|Fruit}}, while the already existing article [[Fruit]] gets the identifier instead. But then the question becomes what identifier to use for ''that'' article? I suppose {{fake link|Fruit (collective)}} would describe the current Fruit article well, but that one doesn't really sit right with me. [[User:Arend|Arend]] ([[User talk:Arend|talk]]) 21:54, September 7, 2022 (EDT)
+::I don't think "Yoshi food" is an appropriate identifier either, since the other [[Fruit]] would be considered "Yoshi food" as well and can cause some confusion. Though I would support the option of giving this fruit the identifier-less name and giving the other fruit the identifier (maybe something like "Fruit (general)" or "Fruit (generic)") since the former is more prominent and unique to the ''Mario'' franchise. {{User:Mario jc/sig}} 10:00, September 11, 2022 (EDT)
+:::{{fake link|Fruit (general)}} does sit a bit better with me than {{fake link|Fruit (collective)}}. Now, I could maybe add another option "Rename to 'Fruit', and rename the already existing 'Fruit' article to 'Fruit (general)'", but I think I'd rather wait a month after this proposal succeeds and then figure what to do with it, as currently, [[Fruit]] also describes examples of single fruits (cherries from SMB2, bananas from the DKC games, the fruits from this article): some of these examples could be moved here (namely, the entire ''Mario and Luigi'' series section), or be split off or moved elsewhere (e.g. the beans from Pyoro in the WarioWare games, and maybe the Fruit Bombs from DK Jr.). Yet it doesn't include ALL other examples of single fruits, either.<br>So perhaps a different proposal is needed for that article on whether the general fruit article should describe ''all'' instances of singular fruits appearing, or only the instances in which multiple fruits appear in a game (e.g. like in Mario Sunshine or Yoshi's Story), so I think whether or not to decide if that article needs an identifier is more appropriate to discuss then. {{User:Arend/sig}} 19:36, September 11, 2022 (EDT)
+@LinkTheLefty: You're forgetting that Yoshi's Eggs are usually given their straightforward name in most of their appearances, whereas Yoshi fruits are always referred to as "fruits" regardless of source. {{User:Archivist Toadette/sig}} 22:31, September 7, 2022 (EDT)
+:It's actually relatively uncommon in the mainline ''Yoshi'' platformers. Either way, it's a valid name and will cause less headaches with the other fruit article in the long run. Source priority exceptions are always possible, especially via proposal. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 08:59, September 8, 2022 (EDT)