| Latest revision |
Your text |
| Line 118: |
Line 118: |
|
| |
|
| == Merge with Crazee Dayzee: The second part == | | == Merge with Crazee Dayzee: The second part == |
| {{SettledTPP}} | | {{TPP}} |
| {{ProposalOutcome|failed|4-10|Keep split}}
| | So, i'd like to adress a point. As i said in Obsessive Mario Fan's PM on Discord, rather than comparing it to the Bullet Bill, you should rather compare it to the Bandit. Unlike the bullet bill, the variant had not been distincted in Yoshi's New Island. Now, the Bullet Bill variant, looks different, but interacts with walls the same way the yellow ones did in Yoshi's Island. Also, unlike this, and Relay Heiho, neither the bandit nor this have been distincted in Yoshi's New Island, also the bandit had been merged, so if we did so with them, why not do it with this? Also, no, the "color and behavior" thing is invalid for reasons i have went over. Also, i had gotten this idea while Piscatory Pete was being merged, and thought of that, but Doc von Schmeltwick said that we should wait some time after this one had been merged. I had missed this proposal, in which i would have voted support, or even started if i did it on time, but that doesn't matter. |
| So, this had been conflicting me for a while, now. So, i'd like to adress a point. As i said in Obsessive Mario Fan's PM on Discord, rather than comparing it to the Bullet Bill, you should rather compare it to the Bandit.<br> Unlike the bullet bill, the variant had not been distincted in Yoshi's New Island. Now, the Bullet Bill variant, looks different, but interacts with walls the same way the yellow ones did in Yoshi's Island. Also, unlike this, and Relay Heiho, neither the bandit nor this have been distincted in Yoshi's New Island, also the bandit had been merged, so if we did so with them, why not do it with this?<br> Also, no, the "color and behavior" thing is invalid for reasons i have went over. Also, i had gotten this idea while Piscatory Pete was being merged, and thought of that, but Doc von Schmeltwick said that we should wait some time after this one had been merged. I had missed this proposal, in which i would have voted support, or even started if i did it on time, but that doesn't matter.
| | The subject is this. |
| The subject is this. | |
| | |
| '''Proposer:''' {{User|FanOfYoshi}}<br> | | '''Proposer:''' {{User|FanOfYoshi}}<br> |
| '''Deadline:''' November 15, 2021, 23:59 GMT | | '''Deadline:''' November 14 2021, 23:59 GMT |
| ===Support=== | | ===Support=== |
| #{{User|FanOfYoshi}} Per proposal, and my points in the previous proposal. | | #{{User|FanOfYoshi}} Per proposal, and my points previously. |
| #{{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}} - Per LTL and I last time. Might a well have Hopping Tap-Tap or Short Fuse split.
| |
| #{{User|LinkTheLefty}} - Regardless of how you feel about Coin Bandit, we also no longer have Flopsy Fish and Piscatory Pete split, much less Cheep Cheep, and we ''never'' had Boo Balloon/Blue Boo and Nep-Enut/Submarine Nep-Enut split. This page (along with Solo/Green Toady) are relics of that same one-shot source.
| |
| #{{User|Blinker}} Per all.
| |
|
| |
|
| ===Oppose=== | | ===Oppose=== |
| #{{User|Waluigi Time}} Not convinced. Per previous proposal.
| |
| #{{User|Koopa con Carne}} Visually, nomenclaturally{{footnote|main|*}}, and behaviorally distinct variant. I also disagree with the Coin Bandit merge.
| |
| #{{User|Archivist Toadette}} Next-to-no argumentative improvements made since the last proposal, so I'm opposing again.
| |
| #{{User|Chester Alan Arthur}} Per all.
| |
| #{{User|Ray Trace}} Per Waluigi Time's comments in the previous proposal, and per Koopa Con Carne on the Coin Bandit merge as well.
| |
| #{{User|Tails777}} Per Waluigi Time's comments in the previous proposal.
| |
| #{{User|Swallow}} I'd rather not rely too much on Japanese names for absoloutely everything unless they are treated as the same thing, per opposition from this and the previous proposal.
| |
| #{{User|KingGeoshiKoopshi64}} Per Waluigi Time's comments.
| |
| #{{User|WildWario}} Per all.
| |
| #{{User|Hewer}} Per the opposition of both proposals. Also, I don't think Piscatory Pete is at all comparable; while that is a different take on Cheep Cheep that appears in a different game, this is a variant with differences (name, appearance, behaviour) that appears in the same game as the enemy it's derived from.
| |
|
| |
| ===Comments=== | | ===Comments=== |
| {{footnote|note|*}} I guess the enemy’s name constitutes weaker grounds for a split, considering it’s come from a source that hodgepodges quite a few enemy identities to the point that it in itself doesn’t have much merit as a guideline. Still, I sense that this “unveridical source” argument has been invoked and relied on way too much when there are other factors to be taken into account, such as the fact that some interrelated ''Yoshi’s Island'' subjects exhibit genuine gameplay differences between each other, which definitely warrants having them split. In our present case, Bubble Dayzees spit bubbles and are purple, Crazee Dayzees do not spit bubbles and are yellow. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 14:14, November 1, 2021 (EDT)
| |
| :Crazee Dayzees appear in white as well (and have an unused cream palette), so it seems they were just intended to be like how Shy Guys and Lantern Ghosts appear in four colors. Additionally, it should probably be noted how the purple tint was used for TTYD and SPM (similar to Coin Bandit's color being used, which is why we merged those BTW). [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 14:41, November 1, 2021 (EDT)
| |
|
| |
| Just throwing something out regarding Yoshi's New Island: just because they share a model file doesn't necessarily warrant a merge; [[Spear Guy]]s are literally retextured Shy Guys, [[Fly Guy]]s are just the Shy Guy object with a propeller attachment and not a separate enemy file, [[Woozy Guy]]s, [[Tree Heiho]]s and [[Door Heiho]]s are empty files constituting of just skeletal animations intended to be merged with Shy Guy's model, and [[Snowball]]s are retextured Chomp Rocks. {{User:Ray Trace/sig}} 02:53, November 2, 2021 (EDT)
| |
| :What about the Piscatory Pete? They look different, and act different, yet still considered to be normal Cheep Cheeps. Also, you're argument is invalid, as all of the variants you just mentioned are split regardless of the language, as they have separate entries. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 11:35, November 2, 2021 (EDT)
| |
| ::The argument isn't "invalid" (and that's a strong word here, I'd suggest not throwing it around so lightly), BLOF is pointing out that plenty of clearly distinct entities in Yoshi's New Island share model files, so it doesn't really mean anything. (And Piscatory Pete is another merge I don't really agree with.) --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 12:37, November 2, 2021 (EDT)
| |
| :::Out of curiosity, what does the English Advance guide say?--{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 13:49, November 4, 2021 (EDT)
| |
| ::::It wasn't easy to procure this information in time, but FanOfYoshi was asking it of me for the proposal. First, let me first review the information that we do know (and this is all openly available via [[Bubble Dayzee#References|our references]]): 1) the [[media:Super Mario Yossy Island Shogakukan P5.jpg|Super Famicom Shogakukan guide]] describes it as a purple color variant, 2) the [[media:SMW2 Guide 126.jpg|Super NES Player's Guide]] gives it the name Bubble Dayzee in the Enemy Index, 3) the [[media:Advance 3 Shogakukan P19.png|''Super Mario Advance 3'' Shogakukan guide]] describes it as a purple color variant, and 4) the [[media:Yoshi New Island Shogakukan P23.jpg|''Yoshi's New Island'' Shogakukan guide]] does the same. For context, these guides will give enemies like red/blue Gargantua Blargg/Nep-Enut and red/green Cheep Cheep/Deep Cheep separate entries, but that was evidently deemed too minor for the bubble-blowing Dayzees. Additionally, we are aware that the Super NES Player's Guide has a number of antiquated names, the ''Super Mario Advance 3'' Shogakukan guide is rewritten/re-edited from the original, and the ''Yoshi's New Island'' Shogakukan guide is noteworthy for actually splitting up several enemies that were previously unnamed variants (e.g. Relay Heihō). So with those things in mind, let's answer the question: does the name Bubble Dayzee even reappear in the ''Super Mario Advance 3'' Player's Guide? It doesn't have an Enemy Index, and it actually adds at least one name (namely Slime), but it looks like the following do not reappear from the Super NES Player's Guide: Aqua Lakitu (referred to as Lakitu), Barney Bubble, Beach Koopa, Big Boo (referred to as Boo), Blow Hard, Blue Boo/Boo Balloon (referred to as balloonlike ghosts), Boo Blah, Boo Buddy (referred to as Boo), Boo Man Bluff, Bouncing Bullet Bill (referred to as Bullet Bill), '''Bubble Dayzee''', Burt (referred to as bouncing enemies), Cactus Jack (referred to as Needlenose), Caged Ghost (referred to as ghost), Coin Bandit (referred to as Bandits), Crazee Dayzee, Dancing Spear Guy (referred to as Spear Guy), Dr. Freezegood (referred to as an enemy), Fang (referred to as Bat), Flying Wiggler, Georgette Jelly, Goomba, Green Glove (referred to as Baseball Boy or Green Glove Baseball Boy), Green Toady (referred to as Solo Toady), Grunt, Hopping Tap-Tap, Hot Lips, Jean de Fillet, Kaboomba, Little Mouser, Little Skull Mouser (referred to as Little Skull Monster), Loch Nestor, Grim Leecher (referred to as Bandit), Mace Penguin, Mock Up (referred to as 1-Up balloons), Mufti Guy, Nipper Spore (referred to as strange seedlings), Piro Dangle (referred to as throbbing fireball enemies), Piscatory Pete, Preying Mantas, Red Blargg (referred to as Blargg), Seedy Sally (referred to as Grinder), Short Fuse (referred to as Grinder), Slugger (referred to as Baseball Boy or Baseball Boy Slugger), Sluggy, Snifit, Spiked Fun Guy (though Potted Spike Fun Guy is mentioned), Spooky, Submarine Nep-Enut (referred to as Gargantua Blargg), Wall Lakitu (referred to as Lakitu), Whirly Fly Guy, and Woozy Guy. This list may give or take since I rushed it, but at any rate, I think I've at least got the important ones out of the way. Draw your own conclusions. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 21:40, November 14, 2021 (EST)
| |
|
| |
| ==Discussion==
| |
| So, why are people so interested in not merging these? They're called Pansy-san in Japan, have the same color scheme as Crazee Dayzees from the Paper Mario games and it's described as a purple variant in Japan which indicates that Japan just sees these bubble blowers as Crazee Dayzees that can blow bubbles like how in Paper Mario, Crazee Dayzees attack with musical notes. Plus, I've noticed that some of the failed proposals such as Cleft/Moon Cleft and Super Soda/Fresh Juice boil down to "Let's keep them split because they have separate English names!" If that were the case, then we should split Boo Balloon and Blue Boo because Nintendo Power's SNES Strategy Guide gave them different names because they couldn't see the black line in (the admittely dark) castle. Likewise, we should re-merge the Ice Snifits because they have the same English name despite the fact they have different Japanese names. If someone tries to argue otherwise, this is something that the ''developers in Japan'' came up with and Bubble Dayzee comes from some US strategy guide writers and as we know, strategy guide writers over here come up with their own names. [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 18:51, November 19, 2021 (EST)
| |
| :I 100% agree. We have Solo Toadies merged now, so it might need revisiting again at some point. Both attempts failed, anyways. It looks like we're not gonna get this merged any time soon. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 13:47, November 23, 2021 (EST)
| |
| :"''They're called Pansy-san in Japan, have the same color scheme as Crazee Dayzees from the Paper Mario games and it's described as a purple variant in Japan''"
| |
|
| |
| :The same can be said about [[Bowling Goonie]] and [[Hefty Goonie]], and I don't see anyone trying to merge those. But then again the same can be said about [[Bandit]] and [[Coin Bandit]], which we ''did'' merge. Right now I'm neutral, <s>but I do want to mention one thing; The developers in Japan did not come up with Bubble Dayzee being a color varianat, Shogakukan came up with that.</s> [[User:Somethingone|Somethingone]] ([[User talk:Somethingone|talk]]) 14:04, May 5, 2022 (EDT)
| |
| ::Actually, according to [https://www.models-resource.com/3ds/yoshisnewisland/ The Models Resource], it seems that Bubble Dayzee literally is coded as a color variant of Crazee Dayzee in ''Yoshi's New Island'', not unlike Coin Bandit and Bandit. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 14:36, May 5, 2022 (EDT)
| |
| :::I stand corrected then. [[User:Somethingone|Somethingone]] ([[User talk:Somethingone|talk]]) 14:37, May 5, 2022 (EDT)
| |
| ::::I've said this earlier but Woozy Guy is literally just a normal Shy Guy with a Woozy Guy animation that edits his skeleton to look like Woozy Guy proportions. {{User:Ray Trace/sig}} 14:40, May 5, 2022 (EDT)
| |
