Talk:Super Mario (series)

Coming up with a more consistent standard for the Super Mario series

The Super Mario (series) page is not governed by a consistent definition for inclusion. In particular, the first two Super Mario Land games, Wario Land, and Yoshi's Island- all of which are included on the main Wikipedia page- are absent, and it seems to me that at least a few of these games would be included were the Mario Wiki community to agree upon a clear, consistent definition for what constitutes a Super Mario title. My proposed definition would be as follows:

A platformer, either 2D, 3D, or mixed; Made by Nintendo; Features "Super Mario" in the title; Stars Mario as a playable character

The major consequence of this new definition would be the inclusion of the first two Land games onto the Super Mario (series) page. Reasons that have been provided against this inclusion have, in my mind, been very weak. Examples would include:

"The game just doesn't *feel* like a Mario game." While it's true that the first two Super Mario Land games are unique, the same can be said of Super Mario Bros. 2 and Super Mario Sunshine, both of which are included on the (series) page.

"The two Super Mario Land titles were directed by Yokoi, not Miyamoto." Again, while this is true, it's a charge that could also be directed against other games on the (series) page, such as New Super Mario Bros. 2.

"The word 'Land' in the title tells us it's a separate sub-series." This isn't tenable for two reasons. First, it would open the door to take off many other games on the list (64, Sunshine, Galaxy) that don't carry the familiar Super Mario Bros. moniker; secondly, Super Mario 3D Land is included on the (series) page, meaning it would need to be removed in the name of consistency.

"The two Land games weren't included in the Anniversary Collection Booklet." Not only does the Mario Wiki make clear that the ACB carries no weight as a source for Super Mario canonicity, it would also leave us in the dark regarding later SM games. Should 3D Land be included? NSMB2? Leaning on the ACB defeats the purpose of establishing a clear definition for inclusion on the (series) page down the road.

It goes without saying that this isn't the only definition that could be used, but based on discussion with others, it seems to be the most reasonable first step. That said, I strongly encourage a reading of this topic from the Mario Boards, started by myself, which goes into some detailed discussion about the ambiguities on the (series) page and ways to fix it: http://www.marioboards.com/index.php?topic=20682.0

Proposer: Legault (talk)
Deadline: September 17th, at 23:59 GMT.

Support

1. Legault (talk) Consistency and clarity are essential.

Keep this page? Or no.

This talk page proposal has already been settled. Please do not edit any of the sections in the proposal. If you wish to discuss the article, do so in a new header below the proposal.

DELETED

I wouldn't consider this a TPP, so here is what this is.

Ok. So do we really need to have a Super Mario (series) page? The Mario series page has better coverage on the games in this article. So, keep this page? Or don't keep this page.

Proposer: Supremo78 (talk)
Deadline: July 20, 2011, 23:59

Keep

1. Goomba's Shoe15 (talk) we have articles on every other sub-series so why not have one on this
2. Xzelion (talk) – Per Goomba's Shoe15.
3. DKPetey99 (talk) Not like I spent an hour working on it. BTW, there is a construction template, I'm still working on it. It's kinda like the DK (series) page.
4. SuperYoshiBros (talk) Sure.

No Keep

1. YoshiGo99 (talk)Per Supremo78

Comments

The Super Mario series is not and shouldn't be considered a sub-series. In Japan, Mario is called Super Mario. Also, over there, games such as Super Mario Bros. are considered in the Mario series. Supremo

I just want to point out, this is the biggest sub-series in the Mario series. I'm still working on it! If this fails, the Mario Baseball series will be merged with the Mario series, as well as all of the other series. And @Supremo78, on the Mario series page, one of the sub-series is called the Super Mario series. DKPetey99^TCE 16:38, 6 July 2011 (EDT)

Well still. I don't think we need to make one of these. But if this fails, sorry for my stupidity. Supremo

@Supremo your vote is invalid cause you have no reason Goomba's Shoe15 (talk)

"Well Still" isn't a very convincing counter-argument either. Xzelion^ETC 16:42, 6 July 2011 (EDT)

How are you perring yourself if there is not valid reason? DKPetey99^TCE 16:44, 6 July 2011 (EDT)

He can per himself if he made the proposal he's peering his proposal Goomba's Shoe15 (talk)

Rather than deleting it right off the bat, why not let it run it's course as an article under construction. Of course at this point in time the Mario series page is going to have better information. Xzelion^ETC

Okay then. This is my opinion. The Super Mario (series) shouldn't be created partly because its just like a mini Mario (series). It already says that the games on the Mario series page that those games are in the Super Mario series. And really, people don't consider there is a Super Mario series. When they think about Super Mario Bros., they think Mario (series), not Super Mario (series). And like said before, this is like a mini Mario series page. If you still want to have it, make it a subsection of the Mario series article. Supremo

There already is a subsection in the Sub-series section on the page. It is not a mini Mario series due to the fact it features all of the games with "Super Mario" in it. DKPetey99^TCE 16:49, 6 July 2011 (EDT)

I have no more argument, so I remove my vote. Supremo

Shouldn't Super Mario Land and Super Mario 64 DS be added to this article? Bspald95 (talk) 16:41, 28 August 2012 (EDT)

Never mind. Bspald95 (talk) 17:41, 5 September 2012 (EDT)

Deletion Template

If anyone puts up a delete template again, I'm goanna flip! DKPetey99^TCE 17:04, 6 July 2011 (EDT)

Who deleted section on playable characters. DKPetey99^TCE 17:10, 6 July 2011 (EDT)

Ports

Do you really think that the virtual console ports should be treated as separate games? I mean, just because Super Mario Bros. is released on the Wii, that doesn't mean it's a new game in the series. I think that we should remove the virtual console section from here and make the 30 games in this series become 23.

-IGGY7735

I counted and there should only be fourteen.EmperorLuigi115

SM3DL's Location

Shouldn't Super Mario 3D Land be in the Super Mario Land series article.

Commander Code-8

No, since the game is considered to be in the mainstream series, not the Super Mario Land series. Bop1996 _(Talk)

Should Super Paper Mario be in this? It has mostly platforming levels.--Yoshidude99 16:36, 23 April 2012 (EDT)

No, SPM should not be in this. A Super Mario game is basically a Mario 100% platformer with the name Super Mario in it that has no sign to be in another sub-series, and SPM fits NO part of that description. EmperorLuigi115

New 3D Super Mario

I read on a website that a new 3D super Mario is being made for the Wii U. Here it is. http://www.ign.com/games/super-mario-wii-u/wii-u-112718

EmperorLuigi115

I got 2 more sites. Here they are. http://wiiugo.com/?s=yoshiaki+koizumi+confirms+Super+Mario http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2011/07/wii-u-mario-zelda/all/1

EmperorLuigi115

I added the first one to the Mario game series.

Electrical Bowser jr. (talk) 10:01, 28 July 2012 (EDT)Electrical Bowser jr.

The Lost Levels

I'm not, underline not, saying we have to get rid of the Japanese Super Mario 2, but is considered an official part of the series in America? My reason being is that it's not mentioned AT ALL in the Super Mario 25th Anniversary Limited Edition extras and it's not in the 25th Anniversary video (both American version). Also, it never got an official release other than All-Stars and Virtual Console. KoopaKiller13 (talk) 19:57, 19 August 2012 (EDT)