Editing Talk:Super Mario (franchise)

{{FATALK}}
==Dear Lord (no offense to atheists :P)==
This article pretty much sucks and its like one of the main articles around here a group of pipe projecters need to get together and redo this or something...{{user:theused/sig}}

==What this be==
See like the [[Wikipedia:Donkey Kong (series)|Donkey Kong (series)]] article on Wikipedia? This is supposed to be the same deal except for Mario. --<span class="plainlinks" style="-variant: small-caps;">'''[[User:Porplemontage|Steve]]''' (''[[User talk:Porplemontage|talk]]'') [http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliates&id=6193&t=1 http://www.porplemontage.com/images/firefox_27x15.png]</span> 16:39, 4 November 2006 (EST)

==No edits!==
I think I'll have to get rid of collaborations, sadly. This just isn't working out. {{User:Wayoshi/sig}} 20:02, 29 November 2006 (EST)

==How's This?==
I expanded the article quite a bit. I tried to stick with platformers, but I added in anytime Mario entered a subseries (Mario Kart, Mario Tennis, ect.) I would like to add a section later about each subseries as well as a section about spin offs. What do you guys think?

[[User:Wanderingshadow|Wanderingshadow]] 10:53, 30 November 2006 (EST)
:Very nice, and thanks for helping. Two minor issues:
:#Try to italicize all game titles on this wiki.
:#Each header needs two equal signs, not one, and each sub-header then needs three, not two. Never one equal sign.
:{{User:Wayoshi/sig}} 15:06, 30 November 2006 (EST)

==revert?==
Why did you revert my edit? All the things I know about mario are problably already on this wiki! The least I can do is give a timeline of the events in the marioverse. Let me help in a way I can, or I would be a timewasting user!--[[User:Dummmmmmy|Dummmmmmy]] 21:36, 7 September 2007 (EDT)
:We don't really need a seperate article on the History of the Marioverse. [[Mario (franchise)]] is good enough, all the history goes on that page. No need for another page. {{User:Pokemon DP/sig}}
::I agree with DP. {{User:Xzelion/Signature}}

==No Mario power tennis or super smash bros. melee or super smash bros. brawl?????!!!!!==
Why is there Mario tennis but no Mario power tennis? That game was way better than Mario tennis. (I also got Mario tennis power tour for the gameboy advance) And what about super smash bros. melee? That was one of the best game for the Game-cube.[[Image:Compar.jpg|150px]] --[[User:Super mario fan|Super mario fan]] 17:55, 15 January 2008 (EST)[[User:Username|Super mario fan]]

Its not that they weren't allowed to be in the article, its just that this article needs some major updating.{{User:Knife/sig}} 17:56, 15 January 2008 (EST)

==Beta SMG==
The picture of Super Mario Galaxy is Beta and is slightly misleading. Can it be changed? {{User:Quate/sig}} 00:09, 9 September 2008 (EDT)
:Of course.  Why don't you find a good picture from the article on Super Mario Galaxy or elsewhere off Wiki and use it? {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 10:47, 9 September 2008 (EDT)
::I'm wondering if this is a good picture. Is it? {{User:Quate/sig}} 22:43, 9 September 2008 (EDT)
:::That's fine! {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 00:45, 11 September 2008 (EDT)

==Wikipedia as Reference Sources==
Why are we citing Wikipedia as a source of factual information?  Like this wiki, Wikipedia needs to back up its information with other sources.  We shouldn't be citing Wikipedia as a source.  It defeats the whole purpose of citing information in the first place. -- [[User:Son of Suns|Son of Suns]]
:Agree, citing a wiki that everyone can edit in another wiki that everyone can edit as well is no good. --[[User:Grandy02|Grandy02]] 08:50, 21 November 2008 (EST)
::Yeah, there's no point in citing Wikipedia because of this factuality problem, and also because their Mario articles well, sucks. --[[User:Blitzwing|Blitzwing]] 09:43, 21 November 2008 (EST)
:::All of the citations have been replaced. {{User:Stooben Rooben/sig}} 15:43, 21 November 2008 (EST)

==Information from Spin-Offs==
Listing games from spin-offs is just rehashing information that is already on the spin-off series pages, and also by their inclusion, we would logically include spin-offs like the entire Yoshi series, etc.  Should we go ahead and move the games to their appropriate articles and put blurbs on this page about when the spin-offs began? {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 13:05, 1 December 2008 (EST)
:Well, as far as in the main section of the article (that includes summaries of all the main ''Mario'' games), I only included the first game of each spin-off because they could be considered notable for starting the spin-offs. As for the Spin-off and Partner series sections, they will just give very brief overviews of those series game mechanics (ex: The ''Mario Kart'' series is a sub-series that pertains strictly to Mario and related characters competing in racing championships. [...]). I didn't plan on having the article explain every single game from every single sub/partner series because that would: A) Rehash other articles material vastly, as you stated; and B) It would make the article unnecessarily long, as it should only pertain to things directly related to the ''Mario'' series, and only contain small amounts of information about series related to it. {{User:Stooben Rooben/sig}} 13:12, 1 December 2008 (EST)
::Oh, yeah, I was cool with that - it's actually what I was hoping would happen, but it's just that you have the ''[[Paper Mario (series)]]'' and ''[[Mario & Luigi (series)]]'' entries in there as well.  And by the way, may I say excellent work? {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 20:23, 1 December 2008 (EST)
:::Cool, glad that's what you expected. As for the ''Paper Mario'' and ''M&L'' series, I only left them in there because they have very large storylines. I always thought they ''were'' part of the main series, but this site says otherwise. Do you think they should be taken out? Also, thanks for the compliment. :D {{User:Stooben Rooben/sig}} 20:45, 1 December 2008 (EST)
::::I think they should be left on the main series page, since they're pretty much core ''Mario'' games with gimmicks, not stand-alone projects (i.e. the ''Yoshi's Island'' series). They have unique aspects, yes, but while that groups them together it doesn't have to set them '''apart''' from the rest as well. They're also, as Stooby mentioned, rather substantial games, and I feel ''not'' including them would seem like a glaring omission. And, they're rather small (3 or 2 games), so it's not like it's going to clutter up the page like any ''Mario Kart'' coverage would, for example. - {{User:Walkazo/sig}} 22:34, 1 December 2008 (EST)
:::Very true on all points.  I think we need to find an official definition of what the Mario/Super Mario series is before we go further.  Great work again! {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 23:14, 1 December 2008 (EST)

==Release years==
Sorry if I annoy you with this again, but wouldn't it be better to use the original years of release, regardless of region? That means that ''Super Mario Bros. 3'' was actually released in 1988 and so it came out before ''Super Mario Land''. [[MarioWiki:Chronology]] also tells so, so it's even a guideline to go by the original dates. --[[User:Grandy02|Grandy02]] 13:23, 1 December 2008 (EST)
:I can do that, and then put the flag of the country in which it was released next to it. {{User:Stooben Rooben/sig}} 13:25, 1 December 2008 (EST)
::Yeah, would be nice, it's important that the games are in correct order. --[[User:Grandy02|Grandy02]] 13:35, 1 December 2008 (EST)
:::Okay, I'll get to that right away. {{User:Stooben Rooben/sig}} 13:39, 1 December 2008 (EST)
::::There, how's that? {{User:Stooben Rooben/sig}} 14:39, 1 December 2008 (EST)

==[[Yoshi's Safari]]==
This game isn't listed yet, but I think it should go in with the main ''Mario'' titles, not the ''Yoshi'' spin-off section. Unlike the ''Yoshi'' games, the "o" in the title of ''Yoshi's Safari'' is not a [[Yoshi Egg]], so that suggests it's not a ''Yoshi'' game. It doesn't really have anything in common with the ''Yoshi'' games, and it stars (adult) Mario, not Yoshi. Saying it is a ''Yoshi'' game because it has "Yoshi" in the title is as speculative as my reasoning for why it ''shouldn't'' be considered a ''Yoshi'' game. It's currently included on the [[Yoshi (series)]] page, but the reason I've brought it up ''here'' is because it poses a bit of a conundrum for this page in particular: ''Yoshi's Safari'' is the first game to refer to Princess Toadstool as "Peach", something that is currently being attributed erroneously to ''[[Super Mario 64]]''. If ''Yoshi's Safari'' is listed with the main ''Mario'' titles everything turns out smooth, but if it's relegated to the ''Yoshi'' series, it gets a bit more dicey. Switching from "Toadstool" to "Peach" without explanation would be unprofessional, but making a special note of it in ''SM64''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s entry would be a tad clunky... - {{User:Walkazo/sig}} 01:40, 24 December 2008 (EST)
:I think that could be done. The reasons you bring up sound valid, (most specifically the point about the "o" in the titles). At the very least, they should be in both series pages, but I'd support removing the game's information from the Yoshi (series) article and rewriting it here. {{User:Stooben Rooben/sig}} 01:47, 24 December 2008 (EST)
You have to be careful about the Peach/Toadstool business. In Yoshi's Safari she's called Peach, but in Super Mario RPG which was released after Yoshi's Safari she's still Toadstool. The change was only permanent since Super Mario 64. I also don't think this is so important that it should get several mentionings. - {{User:Cobold/sig}} 05:38, 24 December 2008 (EST)
::I'll wait for some more feedback before doing anything then. {{User:Stooben Rooben/sig}} 21:19, 27 December 2008 (EST)

The game most related to Yoshi's Safari is Super Mario World.  It features the same enemies (such as Chargin' Chucks), the same bosses (the Koopalings), and the same items (such as Berries). Do whatever you want with the game's information, but as a proud owner of Yoshi's Safari, I can definitely tell you the game is closely linked to Super Mario World, not Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island. =) -- {{User|Son of Suns}} Oh, I should also note you play as Mario throughout the game, unlike most Yoshi games where you play as Yoshi (of course).
:You're SO lucky! I've been trying to get ''Yoshi's Safari'' for years... Anyway, your observations are bang-on, and while ''Yoshi's Safari'' isn't the only ''Yoshi'' title that has very little in common with ''Yoshi's Island'', it's certainly the most unique. ''[[Yoshi (game)|Yoshi]]'' and ''[[Yoshi's Cookie]]'' are both run-of-the-mill puzzle games, whereas ''Yoshi's Safari'' is the '''only''' ''Mario'' (rail) shooter; this in itself should make ''Yoshi's Safari'' significant enough to merit inclusion with the other "core" ''Mario'' games. - {{User:Walkazo/sig}} 02:00, 28 December 2008 (EST)
::Alright, Son of Suns's additional information convinced me to add an entry for ''Yoshi's Safari''. I added some of the information you all provided, so I thank you for making suggestions. :) {{User:Stooben Rooben/sig}} 21:51, 28 December 2008 (EST)

==Question==
What kind of information should this article have about the Mario cartoons, comics, and movie? Should that be mentioned in the "Cultural Impact" section? Or what? I never got into Mario's alternate media, so I really don't know. {{User:Stooben Rooben/sig}} 22:05, 31 January 2009 (EST)
:I dunno, Stooby. I once made a proposal to not include information from the Mario movie, in the Mario article, but the vote was '''to''' include the information. Even though I hated the movie, I think they were right. I mean, it is on the '''complete''' mario series. I would just include all mario information all over, and not just in the cultural impact section. But thats my opinion. --{{user|Clay Mario}}
::A Mario Media section perharps? {{User:Grapes/sig}}
:::Good idea. I'll go with making an "Alternate Media" subsection. {{User:Stooben Rooben/sig}} 23:13, 31 January 2009 (EST)
::::"Alternate Media" is probably not the best section title, as it implies "alternate canon."  Trying to think of a better section title... -- {{User|Son of Suns}}
:::::Wikipedia has a "''Mario'' in other media" section in their ''Mario'' series article. -- {{User|Son of Suns}}

I suppose that'd work. Thanks. {{User:Stooben Rooben/sig}} 23:29, 31 January 2009 (EST)

==Mario & Luigi RPG 3==
I was wondering: should I insert an entry for M&L3, or should it wait until we have more information on it? {{User:Stooben Rooben/sig}} 00:34, 1 February 2009 (EST)
:Waiting until it's released would probably be best, that way the hastle of incoporating new information as it comes trickling in won't become a part of this article too. There could be a section for "Upcoming" stuff, with a list and a ''brief'' exposition for each '''confirmed''' upcoming game. ''M&L3''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s blurb would be along the lines of:  "The third installment in the ''Mario & Luigi'' series. Mario, Luigi and Bowser are all playable characters, and are aided by Peach, Toadsworth and many other recurring characters. The main villain is Fawful, who scemes to take over the Mushroom and Koopa Kingdoms." Of course, some games will have less information pertaining to them than ''M&L3''. - {{User:Walkazo/sig}} 00:49, 1 February 2009 (EST)
::Sounds good to me. {{User:Stooben Rooben/sig}} 13:36, 1 February 2009 (EST)
:::I still think listing [[Mario & Luigi (series)|Mario & Luigi]] titles on both their series page and the Mario (series) page is redundant, but this article is fantastic. {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 16:01, 1 February 2009 (EST)

==Reviews==
Would using [http://www.gamerankings.com/ GameRankings] be more complete and easier method of showing how critically successful a game is, rather than selecting a couple reviews from the internet? {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 14:58, 12 March 2009 (EDT)

==King Boo==
[[King Boo]] is an important character in the Mario series. Is it okay if I add him to the major characters section? {{User:McQueenMario/sig}}
:Since even Waluigi is in there, and King Boo is the major antagonist for Luigi, I'd give my ok, but I don't know what the others might say about this. - {{User:Edofenrir/sig}} 12:33, 23 September 2009 (EDT)

==New Super Mario Bros. Wii to be Added==
We need to add New Super Mario Bros. Wii to the game list! [[User:Absorr|Absorr]] 12:04, 7 January 2010 (EST)

== Koopalings and Kamek ==

The Koopalings and Kamek are important characters in the '''Mario Series'''. You can insert them in the section of characters? --[[User:Mikiuz|Mikiuz]] 09:06, 12 February 2010 (EST)

Koopalings, yes, Kamek maybe. Shouldn't there be a section on NSMBWii? {{User:McQueenMario/sig}}

In fact, they have to do a section on New Super Mario Bros. Wii. I can not because I have knowledge of English is not very high. --[[User:Mikiuz|Mikiuz]] 01:57, 13 February 2010 (EST)

==What Does That Even Mean==
I recently changed the page to be protagonists, antagonists, and then species rather than just character and species. Beforehand though, I tried placing King Boo and Petey Piranha in the species section, but somebody undid that. The only problem here is that numerous other enemy characters appear just as often as these two do. I'd like to know how we can have these two in the antagonists section when so many other enemies appear as playable characters enough times? [[User:ForeverDaisy09|ForeverDaisy09]] 20:58, 16 February 2010 (EST)
:I must admit, is hard categorizing that and many people will oppose. KIng Boo and Petey Piranha are individual characters, their species are Boos and Piranha Plants --{{User:Tucayo/sig}} 21:17, 16 February 2010 (EST)
::A species is when multiple of their kind appear in the same game, like Goomba or Koopa Troopa. A character is an individual, like Petey Pirahna and King Boo. {{User:Reversinator/sig}}

Aside from King Boo, Petey Piranha have appeared as species before. [[User:ForeverDaisy09|ForeverDaisy09]] 22:26, 16 February 2010 (EST)
:I would think moving Petey Piranha under "antagonists" would be best, since his entry is about the character. {{User:Stooben Rooben/sig}} 14:06, 17 February 2010 (EST)
::When was Petey Piranha an antagonist? --{{User:Garlic Man/sig}}
:::Does Super Mario Sunshine ring a bell? {{User:Reversinator/sig}}
::::Does the idea Petey has been a boss in one game clue into the idea that maybe he should just be listed as the species he is like the other characters who have appeared as often as he has? [[User:ForeverDaisy09|ForeverDaisy09]] 19:50, 17 February 2010 (EST)
@Reversinator: Do minor bosses count as "antagonists"? When I hear the word antagonist, I think main villains, e.g. Bowser, Wart, Ganondorf, Dimentio and the like. I believe that's what the definition of the word is. --{{User:Garlic Man/sig}}
:Then how about changing the names from protagonists and antagonists to heroes and villains? {{User:Reversinator/sig}}

Petey is hardly even a villain though. Like every other enemy species he just happens to be a retaliating enemy in certain games. King Boo is known for being evil. Petey is just like any other enemy character like Wiggler. Also, what about Kamek? Is there a difference between Kamek and Magikoopa? I don't get it. [[User:ForeverDaisy09|ForeverDaisy09]] 20:16, 17 February 2010 (EST)
:The gender, AFAIK. --{{User:Tucayo/sig}} 20:39, 17 February 2010 (EST)
::They're both called Kamek in Japanese, IIRC. --{{User:Garlic Man/sig}}

So aren't they the same character? [[User:ForeverDaisy09|ForeverDaisy09]] 23:06, 17 February 2010 (EST)
:[[King Boo]], [[Petey Piranha]] and [[Kamek]] are all individual characters, not species. Kamek can be separated from average Magikoopas by behavior - he was the guy who raised Bowser and appeared in a number of games, just like how [[Yoshi]] can be told apart from other members of [[Yoshi (species)|his species]] because of the special role he plays in certain titles. King Boo is another character who keeps showing up: he may look different in his many appearances, but we have no solid reason to believe they're different people. Same goes for Petey: there may be more than one giant mutant Piranha Plants running around (as evidenced by ''Mario Hoops: 3-on-3''), but for the most part, it is suggested that the playable Petey Piranha at the very least is a recurring individual, and to say otherwise would be overly speculative. Nintendo gives us very little to go by when it comes to continuity, so second-guessing something as basic as names is more than we can afford. - {{User:Walkazo/sig}} 00:21, 19 February 2010 (EST)

So then why isn't Kamek on this page? And also, the Wiggler who appears playable is different from normal Wiggler's as it actually has arms and such. [[User:ForeverDaisy09|ForeverDaisy09]] 00:43, 19 February 2010 (EST)
:Kamek '''should''' be on the page: he's made enough appearances and done enough stuff to warrant a mention (I'd add him myself if my computer could handle it). On the other hand, the Wiggler character isn't major enough for an entry (the species' section is fine, though). - {{User:Walkazo/sig}} 01:30, 19 February 2010 (EST)
::By the way, those two Pety Pirahna-lookalikes aren't Petey Pirahna. They're [[Malboro]]s from the Final Fantasy series. {{User:Reversinator/sig}}
:What are you talking about? The level has a variation, but the Daisy Garden still has two Petey Piranhas. [[User:ForeverDaisy09|ForeverDaisy09]] 18:22, 19 February 2010 (EST)
:::Huh. I forgot about Daisy Garden. {{User:Reversinator/sig}}

=="'Super Mario' series"==
The article currently states that ''The most popular games in the series consist of what is known as the "main" series or the "Super Mario" series'' without giving any closer definition of what is meant by that; what would the "'Super Mario' series" include? Every game whose name starts with "Super Mario"? The rest of the sentence seems to imply this: ''2D and 3D platformers, at least one per home console and one per handheld''. "Super Mario Bros." and "Super Mario Land" are listed as sub-series however, and so is "Super Mario", making it appear as though these were seperate, which would make the aforementioned statement about the "Super Mario" series including at least one game per console and handheld false. If the "Super Mario" series is a sub-series of this, the "Super Mario Bros." and "Super Mario Land" series would have to be sub-sub-series in order for the statement to be true. There is currently no indication of this, however, and the whole "Super Mario" series thing in general is very confusing to me. Could somebody clear this up?--[[User:Vellidragon|vellidragon]] 21:28, 13 April 2010 (EDT)
:Then we should get rid of the "'Super Mario' series" section. {{User:KS3/sig}}

''stares at text.'' Uh, what? I don't really understand what you are talking about, sorry. 

The "Super Mario" "series" shouldn't exist. The "Super Mario" "series" should be simply the "Mario" series. ''Super Mario Land'' and its sequel should be in the main section (''Super Mario Land 3'' shouldn't be here because it's not part of the Mario series anymore; it's now the beginning of the Wario Land series). Any other games that have series of its own should be a spin-off (''Mario Party'', ''Mario and Luigi'', ''Paper Mario'', etc.)  {{User:LeftyGreenMario/sig}} 00:15, 5 May 2010 (EDT)

== Too many missing!! ==

When this was nominated for an FA, I claimed that some of the older games were missing. I made a huge understatement. Many, Many Many games are not shown in the list. I'm willing to fix it but I'll need help. {{User|Commander Code-8}} 05:19 6 May 2010

==That's Strange==
When this was nominated for an FA it was brought up in the comments that Roslalina was not in the Major Chracters section, another claimed she could not be there as she has only been in two games. Then why do we have the Ice Flower in the Items section when it has appeared in the same number of games?? {{User|Commander Code-8}}

She shouldn't be in Major Characters. {{User:Pink Boozooka/sig}}

==Super Mario 3D series==
What? How is that a separate series? Shouldn't it be merged with "Super Mario"?

{{User:LeftyGreenMario/sig}} 02:09, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
:I don't get what a "Super Mario 3D" series is even supposed to be; there's not a single ''Mario'' game that has "Super Mario 3D" in the title, it's simply specified as a bunch of unrelated games that happen to be 3D platformers in the article. Is there any official word or anything the like even claiming that such a "sub-series" exists?--[[User:Vellidragon|vellidragon]] 23:47, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
::The ''Super Mario 3D Series'' term relates to all games in the (previously-known-as) Super Mario series that are 3D. It is apparently defined as a seperate series though I have removed the "Super" part because "Super" is not required. {{User|Marioguy1}}
:::I agree with vellidragon: this "Mario 3D" series has always struck me as being unofficial (actually, the "Super Mario" series did too, but at least ''its'' name was based on actual titles), and with the 3DS about to introduce games that are actually three dimensional, it's going to become rather misleading. An official source for the term should be provided, and if there isn't one, perhaps this "series" should be reconsidered (maybe via Proposal). - {{User:Walkazo/sig}} 22:50, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

''[[Super Mario All-Stars - 25th Anniversary Edition]]'' came with a "Super Mario History" Booklet, in which all the 2D and 3D platformers were listed as a single "Super Mario" series, not as separate "Super Mario Bros." and "Mario 3D" series. Since we now have an official term for the games (and seeing as almost all the wiki already uses "Super Mario" History sections for the core games), I'm going ahead and re-combining the two sub-series. - {{User:Walkazo/sig}} 22:43, 28 December 2010 (EST)

In the resent nintendo interveiw they say Super Mario Bros. series, and refer to the most resent game in that series as New Super Mario Bros. Wii. This impllies that the Super Mario Bros. and 3D Mario Games as separate.
'''-IGGY7735'''
:People sometimes get things wrong in interviews, and I've seen "Mario", "Super Mario" and "Super Mario Bros." all used interchangibly for the games over the years, depending on who's talking and how informal they are, and a whole host of other things to take into consideration. Going with something in writing is always better - especially when the alternate involved the word ''implies'': reading between the lines can be just as bad as speculation (which itself would still be involved here - they didn't say "Super Mario 3D series" too, did they? If not, that's still completely unofficial). Really, I don't understand why you want to split this series up so badly: the wiki is fine the way it is. - {{User:Walkazo/sig}} 00:22, 3 February 2011 (EST)

== Locations ==

I think there should be a locations section. Some could be :
*[[Toad Town]]
*[[Peach's Castle]]
*[[Bowser's Castle]]
*[[Yoshi's Island]] (possibly)
*<s>[[Isle Delfino]] (possibly)</s>
*Maybe a thing for worlds 1-8 from the platformers
*[[Toad House]]s

I'm not sure about any others. {{User:Commander Code-8/sig}}

I also think that [[Firebar]]s should be in the objects section. {{User:Commander Code-8/sig}}

That is kinda a good idea! {{User:GalacticPetey/sig}}

==Missing Crossover==

There isn't Mario & Sonic at Winter Olimpic Games in the crossover list
{{unsigned|PaperMario93}}

:Add it. If you feel something should be added, you should add it.

{{User:BabyLuigiOnFire/sig}}

But i didn't play the game so i can't say anithing about it
{{unsigned|PaperMario93}}

:Just read the article, comprehend it, and add it! I've done a lot of stuff that I never played the game.

{{User:BabyLuigiOnFire/sig}}

==DK==
{{talk}}
Does anyone mind if I move the Donkey Kong and Donkey Kong Jr. games into the [[Donkey Kong (series)]] article, since the two games aren't really Mario games? I just want to make sure it's fine before I remove all that stuff. {{User:Fawfulfury65/sig}}

Yeah, go ahead, but can you just COPY it there? Since Mario DOES appear in those game. {{User:Booderdash/sig}}
:Yeah, but they are Donkey Kong games, part of the DK series. They are not actually in the Mario series, even though Mario is in the game. If you ask me, the first Mario game was Mario Bros., not Donkey Kong. {{User:Fawfulfury65/sig}}

Well, its his first appearence. Donkey Kong is still part of the Mario series you know. I'd advise you to keep it there. At least Donkey Kong HAS to be there, since its Mario's first game. Maybe we can disinclude Donkey Kong Jr. You can ask Steve about this. I have to go now though {{User:Booderdash/sig}}
:Steve only answers questions about technical problems with the wiki n' stuff. Mario appeared for the first time there, yes, but so did DK. And considering the fact that the game is called Donkey Kong, you have to say it's part of that series. {{User:Fawfulfury65/sig}}

Yeah, so you can put it in both series. Mario is after all, and with all due respect, more important than Donkey Kong. I mean with all the spin-offs inculding Donkey Kong, its always MARIO something. Also, if Donkey Kong (and Yoshi and Wario) were individual series, they would be lower than call of duty and resident evil on the bestseller lists. {{User:Booderdash/sig}}
:What does series popularity do with any of this? {{User:Fawfulfury65/sig}}
::IMO Donkey Kong and Donkey Kong Jr. are games in the Mario series. Either that or they are part of their own series. The DK series games feature different characters than those in the Mario series. I think it should just be kept there personally. {{User|Marioguy1}}
:::Well, I wanted to put a list of games in the Donkey Kong series articles that is like the one in this article, but I just don't think it would make sense without ''Donkey Kong'' and ''Donkey Kong Jr.'' I find it odd that Nintendo is celebrating the Mario series 25th anniversary, when Donkey Kong was released longer ago than that. {{User:Fawfulfury65/sig}}
The (landmark) game released 25 years ago was ''Super Mario Bros.'', two years after the release of ''Mario Bros.'' and four after DK's original release. Unless you consider ''Mario Bros.'' a part of another series then Nintendo is probably celebrating the '''''Super''' Mario'' series. I still think ''Donkey Kong'' (and DKJR.) would be considered part of the Mario series or another sub-series of its own. {{User|Marioguy1}}
::::Yeah... would it be OK to have the games in both articles? I mean, it could be considered as part of both series. Or perhaps the two series could have branched off of Donkey Kong and Donkey Kong Jr.? Also, Mario was known as Jumpman in those games, so I just can't think of then as actually Mario series games. {{User:Fawfulfury65/sig}}
I don't know, it's already been integrated into the Mario series...it's more of a Mario series game even if it branched off into a second series. ''Super Mario World'' branched off to the Yoshi series, ''Super Mario Land'' branched the Wario series. I don't think we should be inconsistent just because the name doesn't begin with ''Super Mario'' :/

P.S. I removed the indent on purpose, that is indented way to far in for my liking, I usually remove it at 3-4. {{User|Marioguy1}}

OK, what about [[Donkey Kong 3]]? That's not considered to be a Mario series game, and it makes no sense to have that as the first Donkey Kong game, since it's a sequel. {{User:Fawfulfury65/sig}}
: :O - Oh my! I think this thing should be entirely reversed to get DK3 moved into the Mario series. {{User|Marioguy1}}
::And DK2 too I guess... I find it all messed up and confusing :/ {{User:Fawfulfury65/sig}}
:::DK2 is already part :/

:::Anyways, I think that these things should either be merged with the Mario series or moved into their own series...though I don't know what it could be called...anyways, should I do the move or do you want to or do you not want to do it at all? {{User|Marioguy1}}

I'm too busy to move anything. If we are going to make a separate article for those games, call it Donkey Kong (original series) or something. {{User:Fawfulfury65/sig}}
:Also keep in mind that ''[[Donkey Kong (Game Boy)|Donkey Kong 94]]'' and the [[Mario vs. Donkey Kong (series)|''Mario vs. Donkey Kong'' series]] are continuations of the original ''DK'' games - at least in spirit... I think the simplest thing to do would be to include the games in both series, like you proposed earlier, Fawfulfury65. It works just fine for the [[Template:Donkey Kong games|navigation]] [[Template:Super Mario games|templates]], after all. - {{User:Walkazo/sig}} 21:12, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

If we keep them, we should add King K. Rool and add enemies such as Zinger and Kritter.
{{User:DKPetey99/Sig}}
P.S. Animal Buddies, too.

=="Other Series"==
The section "Other Series" currently has only a single sub-section, which makes no sense, while "Mario and Crossover Series", which seems to relate to other series, is a seperate section. However, when trying to edit "Other Series", the Mario and Crossover section appears in the editing window below "Partner Series" for some reason as though it was part of the same section. Was it meant as a sub-section of Other Series?--[[User:Vellidragon|vellidragon]] 23:59, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
:I believe I fixed it, there was a problem with the table. I don't see how that could cause a glitched up header but I fixed the table and the header moved so...let's just take it as a blessing! {{User|Marioguy1}}

== Reorganization ==

I hope no one minds, but I went ahead and moved around a bunch of the sections, turned some things into sub-sections, and changed a few headers. I moved the series and alternate media content up beneath the games because I felt that would better reflect how the rest of the wiki is organized: with all the titles first in a History section, followed by everything else. I grouped the items, objects, characters and species into one section, since I think it makes the page look more organized and easier to navigate: now the unique "Critical Reception" and "Cultural Impact" sections clearly stand out from the sub-sections of in-universe content above them. Aside from minor rewrites and maintenance work (which I'm doing in edits other than the main rearranging one), I didn't change any of the actual content. - {{User:Walkazo/sig}} 16:10, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

==Species==
Do all of the species have to be enemies? We should include the Toad species!
{{User:DKPetey99/Sig}}
: in addition there must also humans and ghosts {{User:Mikiuz/Sig}}
Say I was just wondering? Shouldn't the whomp species be included in that list, I think I saw them there before but now there gone. I know there species origin is from the thwomp but I think by now they are both important and unique enough to be included... it was done for the para-Goombas and para-koopas I know that for sure. {{User|Sgt. Sarge}} 05:23, 26 June 2011
::See [[#Tatanga and Foreman Spike|this section]]: there were way too many species, so we trimmed some. Paratroopas are definitely section-worthy, seeing as they've been included as playable characters and are found in most ''Mario'' games, and Paragoombas are only slightly less major. On the other hand, Whomps haven't been in very many sub-series and aren't as iconic as the species we left up. - {{User:Walkazo/sig}} 19:31, 26 June 2011 (EDT)

==Hey...==
Isn't Birdo bad?? {{User:DKPetey99/Sig}}

Technically, yes, but this is also an issue w/ Wario, he's had a antagonist and protagonist games, but is listed as bad. I guess, '''''this is only a guess''''', but since Birdo has a relation to Yoshi, and seems friendlier, she's listed as good. I think this is incorrect, but since Birdo has many appearences in spin-off games, and only a couple good series appearences, she's had a lesser impact on being bad. Now, if we put Boo into the equation, Boo is a re-occuring character in both spin-offs and series games, but more series. By now, every one knows Boos kill you if you touch them, so they're considered bad. If you feel that Birdo '''''is''''' bad, feel free to move her to enemies/bosses, because this article is a bit under the rain right now. Besides, their is also the possibility that the person who wrote that wasn't paying attention, and nobody is willing to fix it. {{User:Boowhoplaysgames/Sig}}

I don't think she's actually been portrayed as an enemy after her debut has she? Or at the very least not since appearing in Mario Tennis. [[User:UhHuhAlrightDaisy|UhHuhAlrightDaisy]] 23:15, 5 April 2011 (EDT)

That's my point. She's actually never really been portrayed as evil except in Doki Doki Panic and SMB2. By now, the younger generations have forgotten all about Birdo, and when they play as her in spin-offs, she has a good air around her. That's how I saw her when I first saw Birdo. 

--{{User:Boowhoplaysgames/Sig}} 16:09, 6 April 2011 (EDT)
:In Mario and Luigi Superstar Saga she's an enemy. --[[User:Reversinator|Reversinator]] 16:13, 6 April 2011 (EDT)

But she's also an allie in that game to 
{{User|Goomba's Shoe15}}

==Shouldnt Humans be listed on the species list==

Shouldnt they i mean they make up like 85% of the main characters 
{{User|Goomba's Shoe15}}

==Tatanga and Foreman Spike==
Shouldnt they both be on this list they are reccuring bad guys and Foreman spike is playable in one game {{User|Goomba's Shoe15}}
:One game?! Characters are for only main characters that appear in more than 5 games, (except for Rosalina).{{User:DKPetey99/sig}}
::And Wart. --[[User:Reversinator|Reversinator]] 09:00, 22 May 2011 (EDT)
:Nope, these two are too minor, sorry. Remember, we don't want this page to have ''everything'', just the really fundamental/major/iconic stuff (and it's actually getting a tad bloated already, if you ask me). - {{User:Walkazo/sig}} 15:56, 22 May 2011 (EDT)
::Both are faily important also warts on this page and he's only in one game so why shouldnt two characters that have appeared in multiple games and have been final bosses. Also the only difference between Rosalina and foreman spike is that Rosilina has appeared in two better known games {{User|Goomba's Shoe15}}
:::Rosalina's appeared in three games, actually (two of which are flagship ''Super Mario'' games), and she's probably going to keep appearing (Nintendo loves adding mascots to the stable), meaning we'd have to add her eventually anyway. ''SMB2'' also had a lot more impact than ''Wrecking Crew'' and ''Super Mario Land'', although I personally would be fine with Wart being removed from this page (actually, I'd ''rather'' that be done than clutter things up with ''more'' one-hit wonders). - {{User:Walkazo/sig}} 16:11, 22 May 2011 (EDT)

:That's what i was saying both have appeared in 3 games both have been playable in one game and both have played a big part in the other two, i also think it creatures like Gooper Blooper and Wart are on the list than Tatanga who played a huge part in Super Mario Land which was at one point the 3rd best selling Mario Game should also be on the list given his status as a main antagonist in both games and his appearance in the comics. {{User|Goomba's Shoe15}}
::A lot of things are on the lists that I think shouldn't be; adding more only makes the problem worse. This page is too long - it contains an excess of info, which is bad when you're talking about series pages: they should only be a summary of the basics, while the more specialized articles deal with the more specific details. Wart, Gooper Blooper, Red Boo, Fly Guys, Snifits, Banzai Bills, Whomps, Rocky Wrenches, the Birdo species, Spikes, Mecha-Koopas, Freezies, and maybe even Piantas, Nokis, Penguins and Spike Tops can all be removed (things like Spike Tops, Snifits and Whomps can be mentioned in the sections of the things they derived from - i.e. Buzzy Beetles, Shy Guys and Thwomps). - {{User:Walkazo/sig}} 16:31, 22 May 2011 (EDT)
:::So are we removing them or are they staying in the article cause i think Gooper Blooper has to go he's not important at all to the series {{User|Goomba's Shoe15}}
::::We should probably wait for a bit more feedback before chopping out so much stuff. - {{User:Walkazo/sig}} 16:44, 22 May 2011 (EDT)
:::::Um, Goomba's Shoe, your characters (Tatanga and Foreman Spike) have only appeared in 2 and 3 games respectively, while Gooper Blooper has appeared in 5 games. --[[File:YoshiMP8Artwork.png|35px]] [[User:SuperYoshiBros|Super]][[User talk:SuperYoshiBros|Yoshi]][[Special:Contributions/SuperYoshiBros|Bros]] [[File:YoshiMP8Artwork.png|35px]] 16:46, 22 May 2011 (EDT)
You know who else has appeared in 5 games the Bib-Bob-Omb in fact he's appeared in 11 games and he's not on the list its about the quality of your apperances and being some random boss who shows in 1 main stream game and 4 spin offs shouldnt qualify him to be a main antagonist over Tatanga who acctually was the Main antagonist in his first game and a major boss in the other {{User|Goomba's Shoe15}}
:You aren't paying attention. Tatanga is forgotten! Pretty much nobody knows about the Super Mario Land games and Wrecking Crew games. I'm sure if you hadn't told someone about SML or Wrecking Crew and you said "oh look I beat Tatanga" they would be all like "what are you talking about". --[[File:YoshiMP8Artwork.png|35px]] [[User:SuperYoshiBros|Super]][[User talk:SuperYoshiBros|Yoshi]][[Special:Contributions/SuperYoshiBros|Bros]] [[File:YoshiMP8Artwork.png|35px]] 16:55, 22 May 2011 (EDT)
Yeah cause people are totally remeber the name of a giant squid from the Game Super Mario Sunshine or face it nobody cares about him he's a minor boss from two games who later appeares in a couple of spin off titles that doesnt qualify him to get put on the list of antagonists over an acctual antagonsit and that whole 5 games thing is garbage because other wise we'd be putting Big. Mr I on the list and the Big-Bob-Omb {{User|Goomba's Shoe15}}
:Dude. You don't understand. We don't HAVE to put everyone who has had 5+ appearances on it. And this is for MAIN characters only, so Foreman Spike and Tatanga would definitely get reverted off. --[[File:YoshiMP8Artwork.png|35px]] [[User:SuperYoshiBros|Super]][[User talk:SuperYoshiBros|Yoshi]][[Special:Contributions/SuperYoshiBros|Bros]] [[File:YoshiMP8Artwork.png|35px]] 17:50, 22 May 2011 (EDT)

::That's bad and unfair. They can't even appear here. As for Wart, Glooper Blooper and others, it really is unfair.--[[User:Prince Ludwig|Prince Ludwig]] 20:55, 31 May 2011 (EDT)
:::If we put every character in the series on this page, it would overflow and make the page humongous. And how are we being unfair to those characters? They are just a bunch of bits and bytes :/ {{User:Yoshiwaker/sig}}
::::I didn't know about Wikias with limits. That's impossible. O.o--[[User:Prince Ludwig|Prince Ludwig]] 02:40, 1 June 2011 (EDT)

The list is good.Birdo(species) should be removed along with the sub-species Walkazo mentioned.
{{User|yoshiyoshiyoshi}}

==Mario Party==
I notice that only Party 1 and 8 are here (and MP8 is apparently the NINTH even though it's MP EIGHT :S ). Shouldn't they all be here? Or if you're going for putting only the first one of this big series... why is eight here? [[User:Lair of Rockwhales|Lair of Rockwhales]] 03:43, 1 June 2011 (EDT)

== Prof. E. Gadd a main protagonist? ==

I was thinking that maybe Prof. E. Gadd could be considered one of the main protagonists, I mean he has appeared in numerous games from ''[[Luigi's Mansion]]'', ''[[Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga]]'', ''[[Mario Party 6]]'', ''[[Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time]]'', and now, ''[[Luigi's Mansion 2]]''. Not only that, but he also plays a relatively large part in most of these games. As well, he also invented many important inventions, such as the [[Poltergust 3000]], a staple of Luigi's abilities in spin-offs, [[F.L.U.D.D.]], and Bowser Jr.'s [[Magic Paintbrush]], which is among one of his signature abilities that he uses in nearly every one of his spin-off appearances. {{unsigned|MarioComix}}

:Now that you mention it, E. Gadd probably should be in there. He has had more game appearances and roles than Rosalina, and she is in the list. Also, remember to sign your comments with <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>, which automatically produces your signature. I had to add the unsigned template for you. [[User:ThirdMarioBro|ThirdMarioBro:]] [[User talk:ThirdMarioBro|<span style="color:red">Mario,</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/ThirdMarioBro|<span style="color:green">Luigi,</span>]] <span style="color:blue">and me!</span> 22:20, 10 June 2011 (EDT)

::Added him in the other day {{User|Commander Code-8/sig}} 4:10, 8 May 2012

::While he is a major character in several games, he isn't really a protagonist. He's never been playable, and he mostly helps the heroes. {{User:Humbug/sig}}

::For the sake of this wiki, I'm sure that if they're a good guy, they're a protagonist. I mean, he's not an antagonist by opposing the protagonists, and he isn't neutral because he doesn't mean to help the villains. Pauline has never been playable, and she's only been the damsel-in-distress in all of them. [[User:MarioComix|MarioComix]] 21:06, 8 May 2012 (EDT)

== Mario Spin-off Series ==

Shouldn't we add a [[Luigi's Mansion (series)|Luigi's Mansion series]] page? Because there is a [[Luigi's Mansion 2|sequel]] to the [[Luigi's Mansion|first game]]? {{User:Nintendo Wii and EA/sig}}
:Not until the game is released. {{User:DKPetey99/sig}} 16:55, 13 June 2011 (EDT)

== Super Mario Land games ==

I'm not sure exactly why these are listed as a subseries of the main series. I mean, sure, the games had a different director, but Yokoi was Miyamoto's mentor and oversaw the creation of Donkey Kong and Super Mario Bros. It's not as though he's a complete stranger to the series. The Capcom Zelda games are still considered part of the main series despite being made by a completely different developer. Gameplay-wise they still feel very much like they belong in the main series. [[User:Stonelikearock|Stonelikearock]] 01:56, 14 July 2011 (EDT)

Well, not only is Mario in a different kingdom, saving a different princess, and stomping on different enemies, but the Super Mario Land games eventually led to the beginning of the Wario Land series. Since the 3rd Super Mario Land is apparently the first Wario Land, and if the Super Mario Land series was apart of the Mario main series, then the Wario Land series will be apart of it too. [[User:MarioComix|MarioComix]] 02:51, 14 July 2011 (EDT)
* Super Mario World takes place in a different kingdom and features many different enemies. Not only that, but it eventually branched off into the Yoshi series, starting with Super Mario World 2. Super Mario World is (rightfully) considered part of the main series. I don't see why the Mario Land games aren't. [[User:Stonelikearock|Stonelikearock]] 16:28, 14 July 2011 (EDT)
**Yes, but unlike the Wario Land series the Yoshi's Island series has gradually intertwined into the Mario series, take Fly Guys, the Babies, Kamek, and lots of other elements introduced in the Yoshi's Island series that started appearing in the Mario series. However, elements from the Wario Land series (and the rest of the Wario series), like Capt. Syrup, have yet to be seen in a Mario series game. In fact, the only Mario game (to an extent) that includes Wario characters is Dr. Mario 64. As well, note the only elements from the Super Mario Land series lack many important elements of a Mario series game, namely Peach and Bowser, and even Toad for that matter. As well, many enemies in the series are completely unique, original, and new, and the bosses are too. [[User:MarioComix|MarioComix]] 22:30, 14 July 2011 (EDT)
***Eh, I guess there is a slight difference there. It still seems a bit contradictory to me to include one and not the other when these two situations are so similar, but if that's what everyone has agreed upon I'm not one to try and stop it. [[User:Stonelikearock|Stonelikearock]] 23:05, 14 July 2011 (EDT)

==Super mario land==
If new upcoming title is Super mario 3D LAND shouldn't it be part of the mario land series i think we should change it{{unsigned|Metalmario991}}
:First, two things. 1. Put new sections at the bottom of the page. 2. Sign your posts. I believe that since the word "Land" is not next to "Mario", then technically it is not part of the Super Mario Land series.[[User:Jazama|Jazama]] 18:02, 28 July 2011 (EDT)

Actually, it can't be part of the series as it is completely different and all the Mario Land games (including Wario Land as it said Super Mario Land 3 in the title) because they were all not in colour. Also, the Mario Land series turned into the Wario Land series and ended, and the elements in Super Mario 3D Land are normal elements from the Super Mario Bros. games with Peach and Bowser and Toad and the Mushroom Kingdom, '''completely''' seperating it from the Mario Land series.{{User:M&L'[[User:M&amp;L|M&amp;L Baby_mario.gif]] 19:41, 9 January 2012 (EST)'}}

==Remakes==
Would game remakes like [[Super Mario All-Stars]] and [[Super Mario 64 DS]] be part of the "main" Super Mario series? 
If so, then why aren't they shown on the Super Mario series section of this article?
If not then what series do they belong to? {{unsigned|IGGY7735}}

They're probably part of their own "remakes" group. (P.S. You forgot to sign your name.) [[User:MarioComix|MarioComix]] 14:46, 16 August 2011 (EDT)

:Remakes are part of the original game's series: they're organized as such in History sections - when they're not simply mentioned in the original game's section. They're probably not here because there's actually a LOT of remakes (the ''Super Mario'' series has at least ten), and including them would muddle the nice lists. - {{User:Walkazo/sig}} 22:43, 16 August 2011 (EDT)

==Luigi series?==
Should there be a new section in Partner Series focused on Luigi?  Luigi is the only playable character in [[Mario is Missing]], [[Luigi's Mansion]], and [[Luigi's Mansion 2]].--[[User:Platform|Platform]] 13:14, 16 September 2011 (EDT)
:No. ''Mario is Missing!'' has NOTHING to do with the ''Luigi's Mansion'' games and they should NOT be grouped together at all. The ''Luigi's Mansion'' games can have their own sub-series if people ''insist'' (I personally feel like series should have three or more titles before we start singling them out here, but I know others disagree and there's no rule against two-title series...), but it's definitely not enough to make an independent ''Luigi'' Partner Series. - {{User:Walkazo/sig}} 22:45, 16 September 2011 (EDT)
::Lots of Yoshi, Wario, and DK games have nothing to do with each other internally as well.  Luigi's Mansion can be a sub-series within a Luigi series.  Of course there are not many games with Luigi as sole protagonist so it might appear awkward for a three game series with two of them in one sub-series and with one dangling alone, but it's still within the rules.--[[User:Platform|Platform]] 05:37, 17 September 2011 (EDT)
:::But it hasn't been acknowledged by Nintendo as a separate series (i.e. with a separate emblem in ''Super Smash Bros.''), and just because Luigi stars in ''Mario is Missing!'' doesn't make it a "Luigi" game - like how we're not making a whole series for Peach just because of ''Super Princess Peach'', or one for [[Stanley the Bugman]] because of ''[[Donkey Kong 3]]'', or one for Bowser because he was one of the playable characters in ''Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story'' (which, like ''MiM!'', is part of a larger ''Mario'' sub-series; in <i>MiM!</i>'s case, it's with ''[[Mario's Time Machine]]''). This issue has already been discussed and a previous attempt to establish a ''Luigi'' series was removed by the admins: inferring a relationship between games that have never been official linked (and which have nothing but one plot device in common anyway; no title similarities, no gameplay or genre overlap, not the same developers...) is just as bad as speculation, and will not be allowed on the wiki. - {{User:Walkazo/sig}} 19:20, 17 September 2011 (EDT)

==Arrange==
{{SettledTPP}}
{{ProposalOutcome|no quorum|2-0}}
In ''Items'', ''Objects'' and ''Species'' section, some kinds of Mushroom (Super Mushroom, 1-Up Mushroom, Poison Mushroom, etc.), Flowers (Fire Flower, Ice Flower), Coins (Coin, Red Coin), Blocks (? Block, Brick Block, ♪ Block), Goombas (Goomba, Paragoomba) and specially Koopas (Koopa Troopa, Buzzy Beetle, Magikoopa, False Bowser, Spiny, Hammer Bro., etc.), many are missing. So, I think we must separate them by larger groups (''Koopas'' and ''Flowers'', for example). {{proposal-link|Arrange Kinds}}

'''Proposer''': {{User|Ultra Koopa}}<br>
'''Deadline''': December 17, 2011,  23:59 GMT

====Support====
#{{user|Ultra Koopa}} Per my proposal.
#{{user|ThePremiumYoshi}} - I agree. We should describe the whole thing, like the entire Koopa species, with links leading to the articles, where the reader could obtain specified information about the characters and enemies. Same with items.

====Oppose====

====Comments====

== WHAT?! ==
:Why does this article have a rewrite-expand template on it? It doesn't need to be rewritten and there's nothing left to expand on! Is someone trying to make sure this article can't become a FA?[[User:M&amp;L|M&amp;L  Beware my fury!]] 21:53, 30 January 2012 (EST)
::It's probably missing some games and it's inconsistent on which sports games it covers usually only covering the first and the latest {{User|Raven Effect}}
:But I have seen nothing missing! No games and covers all games! I can't see anything that needs to be improved and I shall remove the rewrite-expand template if you can't give me an example soon.[[User:M&amp;L|M&amp;L  Beware my fury!]] 22:03, 30 January 2012 (EST)
::No Info on the Game and Watch Games, Also the info on some of the games is lacking especially the Japanese only ones {{User|Raven Effect}}
:That's because Game and Watch is not part of the main series. We don't have information on the DK or Yoshi series do we? No. And we don't have much information on the Japanese only games because they are only in Japan, and those people can't write in English to provide information and we can't provide information because even if we got the game we wouldn't understand a word of it.[[User:M&amp;L|M&amp;L  Beware my fury!]] 22:10, 30 January 2012 (EST)
:They are part of the main series since they star Mario {{User|Raven Effect}}
:Yeah, well I checked the article ''very closely'' and saw that there WAS info on the Game and Watch series, meaning that none of your examples are correct and the template is not needed.[[User:M&amp;L|M&amp;L  Beware my fury!]] 22:17, 30 January 2012 (EST)
::I was referring to the games on the Game & Watch System {{User|Raven Effect}}
:There isn't a system otherwise somebody would have listed it on this article. And actually, no systems are mentioned on this article.[[User:M&amp;L|M&amp;L  Beware my fury!]] 22:25, 30 January 2012 (EST)
::There is a system called the Game & Watch there are multiple Mario games on the Game & Watch such as [[Mario the Juggler]] which is not on the article {{User|Raven Effect}}
:But there are no other systems... why is the Game and Watch system so important that it deserves a mention, eh?[[User:M&amp;L|M&amp;L  Beware my fury!]] 22:29, 30 January 2012 (EST)
::It's not the system that needs to be mentioned it's the games on that system all Mario games need to be mentioned and covered on this article and some like Mario the Juggler aren't and some aren't covered in enough detail (mainly the japan only ones) and it's irrelevant that it's only in Japanese because this page needs to cover everything in full {{User|Raven Effect}}
:Well, maybe that's what the construction template is for. It's lower down, but I bet that's what it's for. We can remove it, though, as needing a rewrite would be construction. And why can't you add it or ask one of your friends to help you to cover all of that? I would help, but I've never heard of the series before I came to Super Mario Wiki. This page is not a FA, but people are voting on it. Fix it up so we can officially make this article a FA![[User:M&amp;L|M&amp;L  Beware my fury!]] 22:35, 30 January 2012 (EST)
::Because i don't know anything about those games other than the fact that they exist and therefore must be adequately covered on this page {{User|Raven Effect}}
You know they exist. JUST LIST THEM ON THE ARTICLE! Please. We need this done, and if someone can't do it, then maybe we should forget about them and just remove the templates (except for the nomination one) so this article can become a FA. I know it represents the wiki, but nobody knows about the Game and Watch series so we can't add it.[[User:M&amp;L|M&amp;L  Beware my fury!]] 22:41, 30 January 2012 (EST)
:No they must have the same amount of coverage as every other game on this article you can't just say Mario the Juggler is a game for the Game & Watch {{User|Raven Effect}}
:Now this article can never be a FA! Not like you helped or anything, though I suppose that since you didn't the Internet hasn't exploded, so maybe that's a good thing... on second thought, DON'T EDIT THIS ARTICLE![[User:M&amp;L|M&amp;L  Beware my fury!]] 22:46, 30 January 2012 (EST)
:Oh, and that thing you posted about it can't be just Mario the Juggler is a game for Game and Watch is something I would put! And P.S. I'm removing the templates.[[User:M&amp;L|M&amp;L  Beware my fury!]] 22:59, 30 January 2012 (EST)
:Calm down. I won't erase the templates. There. Ya happy, 'cuz I ain't. Yer lucky I didn't delete 'em to save this article though, but since I'm a nice kinda guy... visit my talk page. Please. I need traffic! Some pages are busy, but mine, oh no, I only get visitors if I do something wrong. I appologize, though. See ya![[User:M&amp;L|M&amp;L Just because you&#39;re in red doesn&#39;t mean you&#39;re strong. Have at you!]] 23:13, 30 January 2012 (EST)
::Even if you did erase the rewrite template i would just put them back on {{User|Raven Effect}}
:But then other people who want this article to be a FA will get mad because they will see the templates off and be all happy and then they would see that you put them back on and will just delete them and then an edit war will start. Oh, and you're the only one that wants the Game and Watch system with all of the games with it to be put on, nobody else cares, they just want the templates removed so it can be a FA. And the first template isn't needed. We could just move the construction template to the top as the article needs work done on it, including rewriting and expanding, so the first template's requests would be included and it would not need to be there.[[User:M&amp;L|M&amp;L Just because you&#39;re in red doesn&#39;t mean you&#39;re strong. Have at you!]] 19:16, 31 January 2012 (EST)
::Having extensive coverage of the article's subject is central to any Featured Article nomination. Removing the templates that were put there for perfectly valid reasons doesn't change the fact that the article has problems: instead, it just pushes the problems out of sight where fewer people see it. {{User:Bop1996/sig}}
:I know, but the problem can't be solved because we need the article to be expanded to include information that no one that comes to this article knows about. Why does no one add the Game and Watch section to this article so it can finally be the FA we have waited so long for? WHY?![[User:M&amp;L|M&amp;L Just because you&#39;re in red doesn&#39;t mean you&#39;re strong. Have at you!]] 19:27, 31 January 2012 (EST)
::Because no one with the knowledge and capabilities of improving the article in that manner has done so yet. {{User:Bop1996/sig}}
:Well, then, can you, brave patroller? Isn't it your job, nay, ''responsibility'', to help users in a time of need? Can't you add the information to the article? And if you can't, can you request help from a user who can? Please, Bop1996, you're my last hope. No, you're the article's last hope, the only one that can prevent it from being rejected from being a FA, thus making you this ''wiki's'' last hope! It needs this page (as the information around here almost always is about the Mario series) to be a FA and represent the wiki! It needs someone like you to help before it falls to its ultimate end. Please help! Thank you, Bop1996! But this information belongs on this wiki![[User:M&amp;L|M&amp;L Just because you&#39;re in red doesn&#39;t mean you&#39;re strong. Have at you!]] 19:52, 31 January 2012 (EST)
:I agree with M&L. Just because it doesn't have every little detail of the game doesn't mean it cant be an FA. Its 63 pages!--[[User:Toadshroom|Toadshroom]] 23:05, 18 February 2012 (EST)
::Hey do me a favor and actually read the requirements and article has to meet to be a FA {{User|Raven Effect}}

==I have an idea!==
I searched around Mario Wiki and I didn't see what I was thinking of, A article on all Power-Up's in the Mario series!If there is one, I need to search more!but if there isn't, I would like create a page with all power-Up's & see if other's can help! [[File:Petey Piranha Ground Idle.gif]] [[User:Peteyking64|Peteyking]] [[File:KingBooMKW.png]]

[[List of Power-Ups]].

{{User:Lindsay151/sig}}

Thank's! Iv'e been looking all over to find this!{{unsigned|Peteyking64}}

==Addition of other main characters / species / items==
Soon, after many things reprising their roles in the new ''Mario'' games in 2011, 2012 and next year, soon it'll be time to add a few more main characters and items after the release of ''[[Paper Mario: Sticker Star]]'' and ''[[New Super Mario Bros. U]]''. I think characters like [[Gooper Blooper]], [[Metal Mario (character)|Metal Mario]] and the [[Star Coin]] deserve to be among the main characters and items.

And we don't care if we use miscellaneous or game arts in this article. It's because they look great.--[[User:Prince Ludwig|Prince Ludwig]] ([[User talk:Prince Ludwig|talk]]) 23:16, 4 November 2012 (EST)
:Also [[Spike (enemy)|Spike]] and [[Swooper]] (but don't use ''Galaxy'' artwork, I'd prefer to see the ''Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door'' sprite). --[[Special:Contributions/94.101.50.230|94.101.50.230]]

::Yeah, but recently, I've noticed the addition of minor characters in the article. And I don't know who did it for sure yet. And Spikes and Swoopers can be added in the article's species section.--[[User:Prince Ludwig|Prince Ludwig]] ([[User talk:Prince Ludwig|talk]]) 18:53, 17 December 2012 (EST)

== Cancelled Games ==

I noticed that a lot of the games [[List of cancelled games and vaporware|here]] are not listed [[Mario (franchise)#Cancelled Games and Tech Demos|here]]. We should add them, right ? I'm just asking, because I don't want to do things I shouldn't do. {{User:Banon/sig}} 16:06, 24 December 2012 (EST)
:We really need one of those [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Be_bold "be bold"] page.

(that's yes). --[[User:Glowsquid|Glowsquid]] ([[User talk:Glowsquid|talk]]) 16:10, 24 December 2012 (EST)
::Ok, I will do it when I have time :) Thanks ! {{User:Banon/sig}} 16:22, 26 December 2012 (EST)
:By Luck, I was just about to do that.. but I'll leave that for you and check another thing.. Let's Click [Alt + X]!--{{User:Megadardery/sig}} 10:54, 8 April 2013 (EDT)

==Fawful==
Shouldn't Fawful be in the antagonists section? [[User:Rpg gamer|RPG Gamer. I HAVE RPG!!]] ([[User talk:Rpg gamer|talk]]) 07:59, 3 April 2013 (EDT)
:Maybe, but the only thing those sections cover is from the non-RPG games, so if you're going to add Fawful, you might as well add other major recurring RPG characters. {{User:LeftyGreenMario/sig}} 12:11, 3 April 2013 (EDT)
::Aren't most rpg characters like one and done style characters because besides fawful and the shroobs I can't think of a singe other reoccurring RPG villain. {{User|Marshal Dan Troop}}
:::Hm, me neither. And it doesn't make any sense that only mainstream Mario games are thoroughly covered here. {{User:LeftyGreenMario/sig}} 12:17, 3 April 2013 (EDT)
::::I don't think it was intentionally set up like that it's just that there aren't very many reoccurring villains in rpg games so nobody ever added them (personally i'm not even sure if Fawful should be on the list or not). {{User|Marshal Dan Troop}}

== The Podoboo picture needs improvement ==

Don't you think the Podoboo pic is too pixelated? Someone please post a new one [[User:Splouge|Splouge]] ([[User talk:Splouge|talk]]) 11:21, 13 August 2013 (EDT)
:There aren't many big single Lava Bubble (Podoboo) artwork, but it's possible to get a model of it and upload it.<br>{{User:LeftyGreenMario/sig}} 20:00, 13 August 2013 (EDT)

== Some characters and species are missing ==

I think Biddybuds , Para-Biddybuds, and Peepas should be in the species section. And what about Boom Boom and Pom Pom? [[User:Splouge|Splouge]] ([[User talk:Splouge|talk]]) 12:01, 14 August 2013 (EDT)
:They have not appeared in enough games to be significant enough, considering they are generic enemies. I'm not sure about the other two though. [[User:MarioComix|MarioComix]] ([[User talk:MarioComix|talk]]) 20:49, 14 August 2013 (EDT)

== Metal Mario? Seriously? ==

Sorry I keep posting too much. But Metal Mario hasn't been in many games. Why is he on the list? And I think that Fire Snakes should be on the list. I'll add Fire Snakes, but I should get permission to remove Metal Mario. [[User:Splouge|Splouge]] ([[User talk:Splouge|talk]]) 11:05, 18 August 2013 (EDT)

== Nabbit? ==

Should we add Nabbit to the antagonist list even though he only has two games his popularity is growing rapidly and he even has a plush form.
{{unsigned|DolphinYoshi}}
:Likely not. No other sidescrolling games have been released since NSMBU and he hasn't appeared since NSLU so it can't be for certain if this will be a trend or if he is just confined to technically NSMBU. [[User:MarioComix|MarioComix]] ([[User talk:MarioComix|talk]]) 20:56, 14 February 2014 (EST)

== Boom Boom ==

I think Boom Boom should really be added to the bad guy list as he has appeared in lots of games. [[User:DolphinYoshi/sig]]

== Mario Franchise ==

I don't understand why this page is labelled "Mario Series" when it describes a franchise. The side-scrolling Mario games, Mario Kart, the Mario RPGs, etc. are each clearly different series, even though they share many characters. Aside from the fact that the games are drastically different, they use different numbering systems (the 7 in Mario Kart 7 does not count any games other than Mario Kart games). Changing this would also solve a lot of the problem people mention above about series/sub-series/sub-sub-series distinctions. [[Special:Contributions/50.81.150.190|50.81.150.190]] 17:10, 20 June 2014 (EDT)
:This page isn't one of our better articles in the wiki so excuse that. It labels series that shouldn't be covered here but in their respective series articles. The page itself is a mess and I think needs a gigantic overhaul. {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 17:13, 20 June 2014 (EDT)

==Rosalina a main character?==
Um, isn't calling Rosalina one of the main characters a bit much. A main character would be a character who has been around since the Super Nintendo games and be in every game since his/her debut. Rosalina is as new as the Wii ages and only in 3 mainstreem games, not in any 2D side-scrolling games
{{unsigned|2.223.144.138}}

== Amp ==

The [[Amp]]'s picture shows it from SMG, but I think it should show a pic from NSMBU. [[User:DREAMYDARKBOWSER777|DREAMYDARKBOWSER777]] ([[User talk:DREAMYDARKBOWSER777|talk]]) 21:15, 1 February 2015 (EST) GWAHAHA!

== This article... ==

Is there a, uh, NON-RETARDED way to fix this article? [[User:AnonBaiter|AnonBaiter]] ([[User talk:AnonBaiter|talk]]) 15:01, 12 August 2015 (EDT)
:What's a "retarded way" to fix something? Huh.

Anyway, [http://www.marioboards.com/index.php?topic=32903.0 we pertinently know] the (series) pages are horrible, but thinking a good new standard has been hindered by a lack of time and other more pressing projects. Everyone's free to pitch in, tho! --[[User:Glowsquid|Glowsquid]] ([[User talk:Glowsquid|talk]]) 16:36, 12 August 2015 (EDT)

== Japanese Mario series DVD released as part of the Game Library Series ==

In Japan, a DVD covering the Mario series was released as part of the Game Library Series.  It's Japanese title is ゲームライブラリシリーズ 「ザ・裏ワザSP」 スーパーマリオ編.  http://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B005UIDMNY/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=4PW1QCR16QDG&coliid=I3QA1FI9FX829W  --[[User:John Pannozzi|John Pannozzi]] ([[User talk:John Pannozzi|talk]]) 17:30, 26 January 2016 (EST)

== Rename [[Mario (series)]] to [[Mario (franchise)]] ==
{{SettledTPP}}
{{proposalOutcome|passed|16-0|rename}}
This article is what can be called the greatest bridge among the great content that covers all the stuff related to Mario in this wiki, it could be said it is our "main article", content-wise talking. This article does not "discriminate" among the content it covers, it has every Mario-labeled game that has been released so far, every major character that has appeared within the media, every subseries it is divided on, major items and power-ups that have been present in the games, extended media that ranges from comic book adaptations and similar publications, animated cartoons, a live-action feature film and the cultural impact is has had worldwide in more than 30 years of history since 1981. Don't you feel referring to all these as "series" seems to limited? we are talking about a media franchise, in fact, the main paragraph at the start of the article already states that so why contradict it? referring to it as a "series" seems too specific because that word only ranges to very similar entries that have particularly something in common, but as a franchise it gets extended to a more ample point of view. Let's remember that this article being called "Mario (series)" already enters in conflict with another title and that's the core Super Mario (series), which is also called the "Mario (series)", this does not mean to redirect the page, but rather, make a huge contrast between the franchise and its most important series. This page deserves to be called a franchise for the sake of the huge Mario media that exists, though it is mostly video games, there is stuff in the Mario franchise that aren't video games and this article is clearly pointing it, all are derivative works and that my fellows, is what a media franchise is. The only thing it is missing in the coverage is merchandise like toys, but there are separate pages for that, though. If this proposal gets passed, I'd also recommend to rewrite the link on the main page so it reads "Mario franchise" as well. Remember, it's more than just video games.

'''Proposer''': {{User|Byllant}}<br>
'''Deadline''': August 1, 2016 23:59 GMT

====Support====
#{{User|Byllant}} - Mario is far beyond a series, is a media franchise that has spawned multiple works, while video games are the most notable trait of the franchise, there exist materials outside that media, like comic books, cartoons, movies, toys, etc..
#{{User|Super Radio}} - per Byllant. A mere series cannot encompass multiple forms of media. For Mario, there's a series of video games, a series of animated features and shows, and the list goes on. All in all, it's a ''franchise''.
#{{User|Glowsquid}} - This is probably the result of poor vocabulary rather than a conscious effort to gloss over the derivative medias, but yes, "franchise" is the more appropriate term to use.
#{{User|Baby Luigi}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Wildgoosespeeder}} Makes a lot of sense to me. Makes a better distinction between [[Mario (franchise)]] and [[Super Mario (series)]].
#{{User|AfternoonLight}} I agree! We have a lot of them including ''[[Mario Kart (series)|Mario Kart]]'', ''[[Mario Party (series)|Mario Party]]'', ''[[Super Mario (series)|Super Mario]]'', and even the three ''Mario'' cartoon shows produced by [[DIC Entertainment]]. So, I agree with Byllant on this case and it's perfect!
#{{User|Yoshi the Space Station Manager}} - Per all. Also, there is article needs to be rewritten. Doing both will help this wiki. Because of the vast information here, it will probably take a long time. I think that a link to the article should be on the Main Page if it is going to be the main article. It will probably need to be rearranged to be the main article. After this is passed, we should have a vote to make it the main article.
#{{User|Fawful's Minion}} I guess we should do it, it doesn't make a difference either way so yeah because there are over 120 Mario games so franchise sounds better than series.
#{{User|MarioComix}} This absolutely makes sense. A lot of recent work has been done to up the quality of this page, and it's certainly beginning to seem more like a full "central hub" of a page as opposed to some page on the sidelines.
#{{User|YoshiKong}} Per all.
#{{User|Andymii}} Per all.
#{{User|Boo4761}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Tucayo}} - Per all.
#{{User|Marioguy}} Per all.
#{{User|AwesomeLuigi97}} Per all.
#{{user|Pyromanic9}} Series kinda implies just a series of games. Franchise implies something bigger, a wider concept, like games and other things, like cartoons, movies, toys, etc.

====Oppose====

====Comments====
Despite me supporting your proposal, I suggest we do not delete the [[Mario (franchise)|''Mario'' (series)]] redirect once the respective article gets moved to '''''Mario'' (franchise)''', IF it gets moved. There are plenty of pages out there on the wiki that link to this very page through the "series" component, and getting rid of the redirect means turning a large chunk of the wiki topsy-turvy. Besides, renewing every single red link with "''Mario'' (franchise)" would prove to be a major stress for us contributors. -- {{User:Super Radio/Sig}}
:I agree and disagree at the same time. The disagreement is [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Mario (series)|modifying pages linking to '''Mario (series)''']] can be done. To make things easier, the first thing we modify are pages in the template namespace, linking to [[Mario (franchise)]]. --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 18:17, 18 July 2016 (EDT)
::What about having a bot to mass-replace occurrences of "Mario (series)" that aren't preceded by a space with "Mario (franchise)"? {{User:A gossip-loving Toad/sig}}  23:43, 19 July 2016 (EDT)
But don't Donkey Kong and Yoshi spawned their own non-video game media as well? Wouldn't they be technically franchises too? {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 18:10, 18 July 2016 (EDT)

Oh, yeah, Super Radio, I believe MediaWiki has a text replacement function? Wouldn't that work? {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 18:52, 18 July 2016 (EDT)
:I did not know that and I am sorry for being ignorant. -- {{User:Super Radio/Sig}}

I chose to agree on this one because franchise is even better! From ''[[Mario Kart (series)|Mario Kart]]'' to the ''[[Super Mario World (television series)|Super Mario World]]'' animated series produced by [[DIC Entertainment]], the ''Mario'' franchise has it all. Everyone will be very happy! [[User:AfternoonLight|AfternoonLight]] ([[User talk:AfternoonLight|talk]]) 23:41, 18 July 2016 (EDT)

:@Byllant: The "Mario (series)" page is currently protected so only sysops can move the title. Would you like me to remove this protection temporarily when the proposal passes, so you may move it? Or would you just prefer myself or another sysop move it for you?

:{{User:YoshiKong/sig}} 05:34, 29 July 2016 (EDT)

== Nintendo Abandoned Games: Super Mario Sisters ==

I found this on the USA trademark website. http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4807:37izht.8.19

It looks like Nintendo once regisered a game under the name "Super Mario Sisters" but left the trademark. {{User:Ashley anEoTselkie/sig}}

== Strip duplicate content from this page ==
Not making this a formal TPP yet mostly because I'm not sure ''exactly'' what form things should take, but...

In essence, the big list of individual games under <nowiki>==Video Games==</nowiki> should mostly go. It duplicates almost exactly stuff on (series) pages, especially [[Super Mario (series)]] - compare the ''Super Mario Bros.'' entry on this page and on the series page. The only difference in format and content is that the entry on this page has been polished up a bit more (and, of course, anything better about the entries on this page should be moved to the (series) pages).

My first thought is that things on this page should end up mostly in the form of:
<pre>==Video Games==
===Super Mario series===
{{main|Super Mario (series)}}
====Overview====
(Shortish prose description of series)

====List of games====
(<gallery> list, with the covers and links to each game, the year w/flag and the system of release)</pre>

But, as I say, I'm not specifically wedded to that precise format. The point is to eliminate the duplication - this is an overview page, and just as the (series) pages should not include an entire page of content for each game, this should not include an entire page's worth of content for each series. - [[User:Reboot|Reboot]] ([[User talk:Reboot|talk]]) 17:28, 2 August 2016 (EDT)
:I've always agreed with you that the more specialized game information on say, the New Super Mario Bros. games should belong in their respective series article. But generally, the series pages are a mess and are in dire need of an overhaul, there's far more problems with it than your comments you listed. tbh I think the character sections should go, for starters. {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 17:32, 2 August 2016 (EDT)
::I don't disagree. But let's break this down into semi-manageable chunks. Do this, then the next section, then move onto the series pages. Trying to do everything at once will lead to it never happening at all, as the moribund state of the series pages proves. - [[User:Reboot|Reboot]] ([[User talk:Reboot|talk]])

"''But let's break this down into semi-manageable chunks. Do this, then the next section, then move onto the series pages. Trying to do everything at once will lead to it never happening at all, as the moribund state of the series pages proves.''"

This. '''This is the right idea'''. 

anyway, I said [http://www.marioboards.com/index.php?topic=32903.0 in this thread] I think the main (series) page should only list one-off games and not duplicate content from the more specific series page, and that,s still my opinion now. --[[User:Glowsquid|Glowsquid]] ([[User talk:Glowsquid|talk]]) 22:40, 2 August 2016 (EDT)

== Hey! ==

Why did you remove the word "Mario" from the Wiki? Or is that an April Fools joke? {{unsigned|Greg Heffley}}
:I think it's just the annual April Fool's joke. [[User:MarioComix|MarioComix]] ([[User talk:MarioComix|talk]]) 04:28, April 1, 2021 (EDT)
::And I take it it's to play along with the "Big M is dead" meme? {{User:Keyblade Master/sig}} 05:57, April 1, 2021 (EDT)

== I think the Nintendo DSi Metronome merits an entry due to its Donkey Kong minigame ==

Info on the Metronome here: https://niwanetwork.org/wiki/Nintendo_DSi_Metronome

--[[User:John Pannozzi|John Pannozzi]] ([[User talk:John Pannozzi|talk]]) 16:35, April 21, 2022 (EDT)
:Agreed. [https://youtu.be/fPaxf57ZeL4 This] is pretty much a [[MarioWiki:Coverage#Guest appearances|guest appearance]] of the same ilk as the Wario thing in [[Rhythm Heaven Megamix]]; strangely, I don't even see it listed on the [[List of Mario references in Nintendo video games|reference]] page. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 16:48, April 21, 2022 (EDT)

== Move to "Super Mario (franchise)"? ==

I don't know really for how long this has been the case, but for at least half a decade or so, it seems Nintendo's English-speaking divisions have been promoting the brand as "Super Mario" instead of just "Mario". This label covers not just the mainline games, which have come to be known here as the ''[[Super Mario (series)|Super Mario]]'' *series*, but the entire agglutination of smaller franchises that star the Mario cast, such as Mario Kart and Mario Party. So far, official websites appear pretty clear-cut on this stance, with [https://www.nintendo.com/ nintendo.com] even rendering the label with a trademark symbol in the "Characters" section, and [https://www.nintendo.co.uk/Games/Characters-hub/Super-Mario-Hub/Super-Mario-Bros-Hub-Mario-Games-627604.html nintendo.co.uk] featuring a "Super Mario Hub" for all Mario games on the Switch. Other instances of "Super Mario" being used to name the franchise are on Play Nintendo, where Mario activities that don't promote a specific game [https://play.nintendo.com/activities/puzzles/ are labeled as such], and ''Super Smash Bros. Ultimate'', where many ''Mario'' spirits, including those who have never set foot in a mainline game (line [[Wanda]]) are classified as "Super Mario Series" spirits.<br>Seems like an obvious cue to move this page. Thoughts? {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 17:03, April 21, 2023 (EDT)
:In addition, the official "Super Mario" brand accounts on [https://twitter.com/supermario_uk Twitter] and [https://www.facebook.com/SuperMarioEN/ Facebook] clearly cover more than just the mainline platformers. This holds for all regions of these accounts. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 09:36, April 30, 2023 (EDT)

== Move to "Super Mario (franchise)" -- proposal ==

{{SettledTPP}}
{{ProposalOutcome|passed|13-0-2|rename}}
To recap what I said right above, what is referred to here as the "Mario" brand, which includes spin-offs and miscellaneous merch, is universally promoted by official entities as "Super Mario", and I think the wiki should duly reflect this state of affairs. The latter label is used in:
*Nintendo's websites
**[https://www.nintendo.com/ nintendo.com]'s Super Mario entry (opposite of other franchise names such as The Legend of Zelda and Splatoon)
**[https://play.nintendo.com/activities/puzzles/ Play Nintendo activities] that relate to the franchise in general rather than just a particular game (note the "Super Mario" label on some puzzles)
**the Super Mario portals across European sites ([https://www.nintendo.de/Spiele/Nintendo-Portal/Super-Mario-Portal/Super-Mario-Portal-627604.html nintendo.de], [https://www.nintendo.it/Giochi/Universo-Nintendo/Portale-di-Super-Mario/Portale-di-Super-Mario-627604.html nintendo.it], [https://www.nintendo.nl/Games/Nintendo-personagesite/Super-Mario-site/Super-Mario-site-627604.html nintendo.nl], [https://www.nintendo.es/Juegos/Portal-de-Nintendo/Portal-para-Super-Mario/Portal-para-Super-Mario-627604.html nintendo.es] etc.; the [https://www.nintendo.co.uk/Games/Characters-hub/Super-Mario-Hub/Super-Mario-Bros-Hub-Mario-Games-627604.html UK & Ireland] site exceptionally calls this portal the "Super Mario '''Bros.''' Hub", but still uses the Super Mario label in its banner)
*brand accounts on [https://twitter.com/supermario_uk Twitter] and [https://www.facebook.com/SuperMarioEN/ Facebook]
*virtually any product that involves the Super Mario brand, from [[LEGO Super Mario|LEGO ''Super Mario'']] toys, to [https://www.nintendo.com/amiibo/line-up/ Super Mario series amiibo] <small>(nintendo.com)</small>, to [[Monopoly: Super Mario Celebration!|Monopoly]], to [https://www.amazon.com/SUPER-MARIO-Diorama-Propeller-Action/dp/B07KWNZGMW diorama sets] <small>(amazon.com)</small>, to [https://www.amazon.com/Nintendo-Mario-Luigi-Plush-inches/dp/B01DV4JIPE plushies] <small>(amazon.com)</small>, to [[Super Mario Trading Card Collection|trading cards]], to...
*Super Smash Bros. media
**[https://www.smashbros.com/en_US/fighter/series.html smashbros.com] fighter series lists
**[https://youtu.be/xvudMu-5kIU?t=25 Super Smash Bros. for 3DS/Wii U trailer]
**<s>''Super Smash Bros. Ultimate''{{'}}s spirit list, where many Mario spirits, even some who were never featured in the mainline ''[[Super Mario (series)|Super Mario]]'' platformers, are classified as pertaining to the "Super Mario Series".</s> Edit: Struck this one out because ''Ultimate'' has its share of inconsistencies with regard to series designations in spirits, as indicated by {{User|Hewer}} in the comments, making the game not too reliable.

...and the logo in the infobox at the top of this very page.

The only reason for keeping the article's current name would be that renaming it would give rise to confusion due to the similarly named "Super Mario (series)" page, which covers only a subset of titles from this franchise. Nintendo isn't clear on whether they consider main platform games ala ''Super Mario Odyssey'' and ''Super Mario Maker 2'' to be members of their own separate group or a root contingent for all the other spin-off series, since they're typically referred to as "Super Mario" games, period. To account for this conundrum, I'm offering two support options which entail the following:
*'''Option 1:''' Rename the "Mario (franchise)" page to "Super Mario (franchise)" and keep "Super Mario (series)" a separate page.
*'''Option 2:''' Rename the "Mario (franchise)" page to "Super Mario (franchise)" and ''sensibly merge'' the contents of the "Super Mario (series)" page in the "Super Mario" section of this page. I.e., this will incorporate information exclusive to the "Super Mario (series)" page, such as the lists of games and characters, while omitting repeat stuff.

In case the article is renamed, a bot should be employed to change all instances below into the following:
{|
|-
|<code><nowiki>[[Mario (franchise)|</nowiki></code>||->||<code><nowiki>[[Super Mario (franchise)|</nowiki></code>
|-
|<code><nowiki>[[Mario (franchise)|Mario]]</nowiki></code>||->||<code><nowiki>[[Super Mario (franchise)|Super Mario]]</nowiki></code>
|-
|<code><nowiki>[[Mario (franchise)|''Mario''</nowiki></code>||->||<code><nowiki>[[Super Mario (franchise)|''Super Mario''</nowiki></code>
|-
|<code><nowiki>''Mario'' franchise</nowiki></code>||->||<code><nowiki>''Super Mario'' franchise</nowiki></code>
|-
|<code><nowiki>''Mario''-related</nowiki></code>||->||<code><nowiki>''Super Mario''-related</nowiki></code>
|-
|<code><nowiki>''Mario''-themed</nowiki></code>||->||<code><nowiki>''Super Mario''-themed</nowiki></code>
|}

I suppose {{User|Porplemontage}} would make better calls on this sort of thing; I wanted to stress that this course is viable in order to pre-empt any arguments along the lines of "this is a widely-linked page, so renaming it would break the links".

'''Proposer''': {{User|Koopa con Carne}}<br>
'''Deadline''': May 28, 2023, 23:59 GMT

====Option 1====
#{{User|Koopa con Carne}} I'm choosing this option to maintain the current level of accessibility. Regardless of whether or not Nintendo considers the mainline games to be part of some nebulous category from which all other games spin off, plopping an additional 100,000+ bytes here doesn't really suit my fancy.
#{{User|Hewer}} Per proposal, and having a similar name to Super Mario (series) shouldn't be a problem since there's [[Donkey Kong (franchise)]] and [[Donkey Kong (series)]].
#{{User|Somethingone}} Can't really see a good reason not to support this. It's not like there was some objective distinction Nintendo is using to separate "Super Mario" games from "Mario" games, especially when they count the Super Mario Maker series as mainline entries.
#{{User|Swallow}} Per Proposal
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} - Per proposal. Nintendo only really distinguishes between Mario as a whole and... we guess Kart? Sometimes? And everything else is a part of a nebulous "Super Mario" franchise to them. Our only suggestion would be to leave Mario (franchise) intact as a redirect, and... I guess we'd really need to have a "This is for the franchise, for the series of platformers, see (such-and-such)" on the top of this article now.
#{{User|ThePowerPlayer}} - Per proposal. It's always irked me how the name of the franchise is clearly ''Super Mario'', but the article name doesn't reflect that. This would be the simplest way to give the franchise article its correct name, while distinguishing it from the ''Super Mario'' series of platformers featuring Mario, the character.
#{{User|Arend}} Per all.
#{{User|DesaMatt}} Per all.
#{{User|Killer Moth}} Per all.
#{{User|MegaBowser64}} - Per proposal. I think this choice completely makes sense and can’t think of any logical reason to keep it as “Mario (franchise)”.
#{{User|Dinoshi 64}} I think the image used in the infobox literally reading "''Super Mario''" is enough for me to support this. I was always confused as to why it was called "''Mario''" when even its logo says otherwise.
#{{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} Chips & Fish All Per.
#{{User|Nintendo101}} While I think many (and Nintendo themselves, probably) view the ''Super Mario'' platformers as the core of the franchise, there is a utilitarian and objective reason to recognize that "''Super Mario'' (franchise)" is an overarching brand that encompasses a wide variety of Nintendo-related material (''{{wp|sensu|sensu lato}}'' - encompassing the platformers as well as ''Mario Party'', ''Mario Sports'', ''Mario Kart'', ''Donkey Kong'', ''Yoshi'', ''Wario'', ''Captain Toad'', ''Luigi's Mansion'', non-game related merchandise, TV shows, manga, movies, etc.), whereas "''Super Mario'' (series)" is a more narrowly understood (''{{wp|sensu|sensu stricto}}'' - covering the recognized entries in the platformer games where you play as Mario, like ''[[Super Mario Bros.]]'', ''[[Super Mario 64]]'', etc.). As an example, ''[[Donkey Kong (franchise)|Donkey Kong]]'' as a series is often well recognized as separate from ''Mario'' (particularly in [https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/20920a1c-0843-4617-80d1-9b2064e86404_1.f7284d9ff157b1d648f1313b403a8586.jpeg?odnWidth=1000&odnHeight=1000&odnBg=ffffff more recent merch]). I think most people would think it's weird to call King K. Rool a ''Mario'' character. However, DK toys are sold under the ''[http://ak1.ostkcdn.com/images/products/80/624/P14755976.jpg Super Mario]'' brand, regularly crossover with characters in ''Mario''-branded spinoffs, and even had a significant role in ''[[The Super Mario Bros. Movie]]''. So there is clearly a well-established brand-relatedness between Donkey Kong and Mario that is perhaps deeper than other franchises owned by Nintendo (similar arguments can be made about ''Yoshi'' and ''Wario''-related material). However, when the 35th Anniversary of ''Super Mario Bros.'' came around, ''Donkey Kong Country'' wasn't one of the celebrated titles, only [[:File:SuperMarioBros35thAnniversary - Game Collection.jpg|these ones were]]. Further, the anniversary of the ''Donkey Kong'' arcade game's release is not recognized as the start of the ''Super Mario'' series even though it represents Mario's debut. TLDR: ''Super Mario'' (franchise) ≠ ''Super Mario'' (series). The former covers a lot more media and material than the latter. They should be kept separate articles.

====Option 2====

====Do nothing====
#{{User|SeanWheeler}} If this passes, I would imagine other proposals moving [[Donkey Kong (franchise)]] to {{fake link|Donkey Kong Country (franchise)}}, [[Yoshi (franchise)]] to {{fake link|Yoshi's Island (franchise)}} and [[Wario (franchise)]] to {{fake link|Wario Ware (franchise)}}. Not all Mario games include the word "Super" in them.
#{{User|SethAllen623}} Per the above.

====Comments====
@SeanWheeler: Luigi’s Mansion and Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker, despite lacking the word “Mario” in their title entirely, are still taken to be under the aegis of the Mario/Super Mario brand, and the wiki has no problem designating said brand as “Mario” while accounting for the two aforementioned games. The other brands you mention aren’t eligible for a rename anytime soon, as the Donkey Kong brand is [https://www.nintendo.com/store/characters/ still called] [https://youtu.be/xvudMu-5kIU?t=35 “Donkey Kong”] <small>(nintendo.com, youtube.com)</small>, [https://www.smashbros.com/en_US/fighter/series.html same situation with Yoshi] <small>(smashbros.com)</small>; not sure about Wario though, admittedly. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 06:32, May 14, 2023 (EDT)
:For what it's worth, Smash Ultimate disambiguates between the Wario ''Land'' series and the Wario''Ware'' series in its spirits. {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 09:44, May 14, 2023 (EDT)
::Yeah, the fact that Nintendo still keeps a big distinction between the Wario ''Land'' series and the Wario''Ware'' series, instead of using either name as an umbrella term for both series, makes me feel that the Wario franchise page doesn't need to be moved to a different name yet.<br>On another note, the Spirits in Smash Bros Ultimate does list a lot of Yoshi spirits as to be from the ''Yoshi's Island'' series, even if they're from ''[[Yoshi Topsy-Turvy]]'' like Hongo. Exceptions are those from ''[[Yoshi's Story]]'' and ''[[Yoshi's Woolly World]]'' (which lists these as to be from their respective game), but strangely enough not ''[[Yoshi's Crafted World]]'', but that's probably because the Spirit in question is the Crafted World alt for Yoshi. That kind of makes me think some of the Yoshi platformer games should be part of the ''Yoshi's Island'' series, and/or the Yoshi franchise as a whole uses either "Yoshi" or "Yoshi's Island" interchangeably. {{User:Arend/sig}} 13:39, May 14, 2023 (EDT)
:::The spirit list also classifies [[Count Cannoli]] as a character from the Wario Land series when he's actually from [[Wario: Master of Disguise]], which we don't consider to be part of the Wario Land series, on top of the inconsistencies that you've mentioned, so it's probably best to take it with a grain of salt. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 14:09, May 14, 2023 (EDT)

Our wiki is called "MarioWiki, yet the wiki logo is "Super Mario Wiki". Funny ain't it. {{User:Mario/sig}} 15:29, May 21, 2023 (EDT)

Something that occurred to me - would this also move all the [[List of Mario references]] pages? I'm assuming it would but it's worth bringing up. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 14:31, May 22, 2023 (EDT)
:I suppose so, since the word "Mario" is italicised in their titles, indicating a reference to the franchise and not the character himself. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 15:09, May 22, 2023 (EDT)

== Are Yoshi and Wario really "franchises"? ==
I see them more as spinoff ''Super Mario'' series, which isn't unusual considering that Luigi's Mansion is a spinoff starring Luigi. The logo used in the ''Wario'' franchise page is just a crop from the first Wario game, which is Wario Land 1 for Game Boy. The Yoshi franchise logo is a prototype of the Yoshi Crafted World game for Switch from around 2017. Meanwhile, there's a Super Mario portal at mario.nintendo.com. I'm still stumped on Donkey Kong's connections to Super Mario because the line-up of Donkey Kong games were better maintained as having an identity apart from ''Super Mario'' since Rare's Donkey Kong Country. ''Super Smash Bros.'' gives Wario, Yoshi and Donkey Kong their own symbols but not Luigi mansion.

The problem is are the franchises related to ''Super Mario'' officially defined or are they based on what users think constitute as franchise? I see a Super Mario portal, under which Yoshi Wario and DK are characters but not any Yoshi or Wario portal.

Brings me to my last point that I think they are considered their own franchises from having more than one series (wario land and WarioWare for Wario) or genre (yoshi's island platformers and tetris attack pzuzle game) as well as isolated starring roles without a series like Wario Master of Disguise. [[User:CoolNintendo|CoolNintendo]] ([[User talk:CoolNintendo|talk]]) 11:56, July 21, 2023 (EDT)
:How are we defining "franchise" in this wiki? {{User:Mario/sig}} 15:08, December 10, 2023 (EST)
::It also depends on not only how we define the use of the term "franchise" in this wiki, but also how we define spinoffs. I personally think that the ''Yoshi'' series and the ''Wario'' series are ''Super Mario'' franchise spinoffs because both Yoshi and Wario have been established firmly as ''Super Mario'' characters. The ''Donkey Kong'' franchise, on the other hand, is a franchise because although Donkey Kong himself started out as a ''Mario'' character (in the Donkey Kong arcade game), beginning with ''[[Donkey Kong Country]]'', the Kong games and characters seem to have been implied to be a totally different franchise (while still having ties to the ''Super Mario'' franchise). So in my opinion, both the ''Wario'' series and the ''Yoshi'' series are spinoffs, not franchises. That's my logic, and while I don't have a completely firm handle on what the words "franchise" and "spinoff" truly mean on this wiki, I think this makes sense to me. Please let me know what you think, though. -- {{User:FanOfRosalina2007/sig}} 14:14, December 11, 2023 (EST)
:::They're all spin-off franchises, "spin-off" and "franchise" aren't mutually exclusive. Donkey Kong continues to be an established Super Mario character, and other characters from his series like Diddy Kong have also shown up in the Mario games (not that that really changes its spin-off-ness). They're considered distinct-ish franchises because they generally reached a point of having little direct connection to Mario despite still obviously being related with the characters, and also it matches the way Super Smash Bros. classifies them. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 05:07, December 17, 2023 (EST)
::::Oh, okay...that makes sense. So all three are spinoff franchises? Thanks for clearing that up, I have nothing more to say. -- {{User:FanOfRosalina2007/sig}} 14:55, December 17, 2023 (EST)