Editing Talk:Moo Moo

I recall Kamek saying "uh...an evil cow" when he was talking to Baby Bowser. I think he may have been lying. {{User:Crypt Raider/sig}}

Aren't they called moo-moos? As in the name of the Mariokart course: Moo-moo meadows. {{User:Geniusguy445/sig}}
:I think the Prima Guide calls them Moo moos, but they are the same people that list Chain-Chomps appearing in Moonview Highway. I'm skeptical of these people.

{{User:BabyLuigiOnFire/sig}}

I think Moo Moo would be a better name. It is heavily implied by the course names (Moo Moo Farm and Moo Moo Meadows) and that one truck in Moonview Highway that advertises Moo Moo Milk. I don't think we should completely disregard Prima because of some errors.--{{User|Knife}} 17:39, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
:Yeah, but what the content from series other than Mario Kart? Shouldn't that mean that if we do create Moo Moo, we have to move the Mario Kart information only? It is the only series that calls these cows "Moo Moo" or something.
{{User:BabyLuigiOnFire/sig}}

I don't think a whole new article is necessary. If we say that this game also refers to cows as moo-moos...well, the game doesn't actually mention anything. we could say that it is implied by other sources, like the course name and the truck label. It's a very minor thing and most other games would say they're merely cows and nothing special. I still like the name moo-moo, though. {{User:Geniusguy445/sig}}

If it is a separate sub-species, it does need a separate article. However, since there is no definitive proof that Moo Moos are a separate sub-species, perhaps we should simply mention that they are called Moo Moos in the Mario Kart series (going by the Prima source)?--{{User|Knife}} 03:10, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
:Moo moos are not called "cows", though, they are called "Moo Moos". We can't just go around saying, "Cows (called Moo Moos) appeared in so and so". We must have a separate article if that's your point. {{User:BabyLuigiOnFire/sig}}

Well, all right. I guess we should split this then.--{{User|Knife}} 15:48, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

Uhm, no we shouldn't. It's not like the Mario Kart series is a whole universe of it's own or something. I think BLOF is being overly dramatic about this. If they're referred to as Moo Moos in-game and in other licensed material, that's what they are, think clearly guys. [[User:UhHuhAlrightDaisy|UhHuhAlrightDaisy]] 08:40, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
:HOWEVER, if the suggestion of a new page was because of the implication that there's a difference between regular cows that appear in say those crummy cartoons, then yes I think a different article should exist. [[User:UhHuhAlrightDaisy|UhHuhAlrightDaisy]] 08:42, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

Y'know, I don't actually think they were ever called 'Cows' - I think Nintendo meant them to be called Moo Moos, or else why name a race track full of them after them if they're not called that? I think the creator of this article is WRONG. [[User:KamekDude|KamekDude - I&#39;M COMING FOR YOUR BABIES!]] 04:36, 3 June 2011 (EDT)

Maybe we should take out the fact that they produce milk. I don't think Mario games note in any way that cows make milk so unless I can get further information, I might remove it.
{{unsigned|PMK}}

Yes They Were Called Cows in Official Manuals and Websites. [[User:LUIGIRULES71|LUIGIRULES71]]

==Clean up this article==
{{SettledTPP}}
{{ProposalOutcome|passed|2-7-0|remove information based on generic/real-life cows}}
For the same reason that the sapient [[Honeybee]]s aren't regular [[bee]]s and the [[Li'l Oink]]s aren't regular [[pig]]s (this should also be stressed as a Really Good example), it should really be stressed that Moo Moos are not regular cows, for reasons of ''look at them''. From their first apperance, they were properly called "Moo Moos" and not "cows", distinguishing them from the real-life animal. This is very much in the same vein as [[Talk:Bee#Split_the_Super_Mario_Galaxy_bees_from_this_article|the previous proposal]] to split Honeybees from the Bee page. However, in this case, there's something else to take into consideration: it can be seriously argued that the generic cows in this article are not worth covering in the slightest. 

From the top: the [[Royal Cow]] has its own article, the Koopenstein cows are only background elements, the ''Paper Mario'' and ''Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time'' references are laughably barebones (and I'll point out that [[Milk|no]], "Cow" isn't capitalized in-game), and ''WarioWare'' contains such a wide variety of generic subjects that it shouldn't be considered as a substantial appearance. The one saving grace may be with ''Mario Strikers Charged'', in which [[Thunder Island]] occasionally has Cows roll through the field (although they're basically ragdolls and nothing more), but [[MarioWiki:Generic subjects]] alone disallows many of these sections. That's why there will be three options: splitting Moo Moos from this article while leaving the real-life cow information intact, scrapping all of the real-life cow info and reappropriating the article for Moo Moos, or doing nothing and leaving things as they are.

'''Proposer''': {{User|Time Turner}}<br>
'''Deadline''': October 13, 2017, 23:59 GMT

===Split Moo Moo from this article===
#{{User|Time Turner}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}} How about "Remove [[Mariowiki:Generic Subjects]]?"

===Remove information based on generic/real-life cows===
#{{User|Time Turner}} My preferred option, for the simple fact that nothing about the generic cow is worth covering, at least not to the point where we'd lose information. Per proposal.
#{{User|MarioComix}} Per proposal. While previously the Moo Moos were not explicitly referred to as such until ''MK8'' (hence the article's generic title), now's the time to properly classify them. As well, most of the other cow information are either verbal references, or one minor instance in ''MSC'' (and we don't have a page for the flying tractors, either).
#{{User|Niiue}} Per all.
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per all.
#{{User|LuigiMaster123}} Per all.
#{{User|Ultimate Mr. L}} Per all.
#{{User|Yoshi the SSM}} Per all.

===Do nothing===

===Comments===
@Doc: Could you elaborate? {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 21:31, 30 September 2017 (EDT)
:It's a stupid rule IMO. What more is there to say? I still think that the birds in front of Peach's Castle should get covered under something. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 21:32, 30 September 2017 (EDT)
::Can you elaborate on why it's a stupid rule? {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 21:33, 30 September 2017 (EDT)
:::It hinders full information being listed? And is often pretty arbitrary and open-to-interpretation? And is often used for "This is a real thing that's used a lot, it doesn't matter at all."-type things? [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 21:36, 30 September 2017 (EDT)
::::The point of the rule is that there are plenty of generic subjects within the game that are entirely not worth covering: anything that could possibly be said about them would be redundant by the simple fact of what they literally are. I don't see an issue with that, but you're free to make a proposal callings for its removal. For the moment, though, it's a valid and official policy, and it can't be disregarded just because you don't like it. {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 21:38, 30 September 2017 (EDT)
:::::Just saying, this rule is equatable to a [[Stonk]]. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 21:40, 30 September 2017 (EDT)
::::::If you don't like it, you're free to discuss it. {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 21:44, 30 September 2017 (EDT)

== What a mess. == 
Ugh...This is a mess and i Hate it...First Of all Yes The Moo Moos WERE called Cows in They're first appearance in Mario Kart 64 and not Moo Moos Though The Monty Moles Were called Chubby. in the Instruction Manual Description it says "A peaceful ranch course with an audience of contented COWS". Second. "Moo Moos are not regular cows, for reasons of look at them."? What kind of sense does that make? The Cows are Designed To Look CARTOONISH not REALISTIC! Plus even then they still look more realistic than the pigs in PMTTYD, the polar bears (Sense They Walk on Two of they're feet and in Ice Climbers They Wear Pants and Sunglasses) and The Mice in Luigi's Mansion Dark Moon Yet all of them kept they're names and the Category Real World Animals. Seriously The ''look at them'' reason is The STUPIDEST reason i've ever heard! Third. i always thought Moo Moo Farm and Moo Moo Meadows were named that Because Why Not? The Cows Do Moo. Not Because it is inhabited By Cows. i Can Call My Farm or Meadow Big Bug Farm/Meadows that doesn't mean my animals on my farm are Bugs or are any species of Bugs. i also Thought Moo Moo Was a nickname For The Cows not they're species! Last thing i Wanna mention. Why Did The Tweester Page not have it's Generic Tornado information removed?! For What i've seen there is absolutely no info on The Tornadoes From Super Mario Bros. 3 and its TV Show, Super Mario 64, New Super Mario Bros. and Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle Being Tweesters While There Was some information on The Moo Moos Being Cows Yet Tweesters Kept They're info?! Geez what a mess...and yet seven people voted for removing the real world info and NOBODY OPPOSED! i Would've Opposed But it Wouldn't have Matter Because the remove one Won. Ugh....What...a...Mess...   P.S. Thank You Alex95 For informing me the other section was finished With The Comments. [[User:LUIGIRULES71|LUIGIRULES71]]
:That's the point. There's a difference between ''Mario'' species and real world species. They're not the same. {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 11:09, 16 November 2017 (EST)
::But The pigs and mice don't LOOK anything Like The Realistic animals They're Based and The Moo Moo Thing Could Be Just another name or nickname. [[User:LUIGIRULES71|LUIGIRULES71]]
:::Even taking into account artistic liberties, there's a clear difference between cows and Moo Moos in this franchise, least of all the dopey smile. Also, what it is about the [[Mouse|Mice]] that makes them not resemble their real life counterparts? {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 13:20, 16 November 2017 (EST)
::::Regardless, wouldn't according to naming hierarchy the "cow" name be the one to go with, due to instruction manuals being on the highest tier? They were never called "Moo Moos" in any of the games. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 13:34, 16 November 2017 (EST)
:::::OK The Mice in Dark Moon Look NOTHING Like Real Mice. They Look Like Fat Computer Mice instead of the actual rodent plus they lack feet to walk around on. i'd argue that the pigs in PMTTYD Look more realistic than the Mice in DM. {{unsigned|LUIGIRULES71}}
::::::Um... Why is the cow-looking Yoshi in ''[[Yoshi's Woolly World]]'' (see [[List of Yoshi designs in Yoshi's Woolly World]] page) called Moo Moo Yoshi? Wouldn't you say that the cows are called Moo Moos? And there is also that reference down below on the article, which is also mentioned in a proposal support. As for the realistic issue, I am not going to touch due to not being able to help. And it doesn't seem to matter since there are two sources the clearly say Moo Moo over one for Cow and beside Moo Moo is also a newer name. {{User:Yoshi the Space Station Manager/sig}} 14:23, 16 November 2017 (EST)

To me, the LMDM mice look perfectly normal (mostly judging from [[:File:LM2_Mouse.jpg|this image]]), [[Moo Moo Farm]] and [[Moo Moo Meadows]] both provide a name for the species ([[MarioWiki:Good_writing#Reading_between_the_lines|interpretations are fine so far as they're logical and straightforward]], although I would argue that this goes straight into Occam's razor territory), and "Moo Moo Yoshi" is the name used in-game. {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 16:08, 16 November 2017 (EST)
:Except it was a Japanese series, originally "Moh Moh Farm," and in Japanese media, making a name for something based off of an onomatopoeia repeated twice is almost ubiquitous. See "Doki Doki Panic," for example. None of the things in it are called "Doki Dokis." "Moo Moo" is intended as a description, not a species name, and the instruction booklet for MK64 outright calls these "cows." "Moo Moo" as a noun came from a separate guide, so it is probably a mistake. Anyways, why wouldn't they change the name of the location too much for the Western release? Because it was already enough trouble to change the "Moh Moh Farm" sign to "Moo Moo Farm" to do anything further, apparently. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:35, 16 November 2017 (EST)
::And that's just speculation backed up by assuming the developer's action. I don't see your point with the Japanese name: that's still based on a cow's sounds, the same as in English. {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 17:57, 16 November 2017 (EST)
:::I'm saying that assuming it was the name of the creature seems to just be a goof by Prima, since an instruction booklet called them cows. Highest tier for naming. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 18:11, 16 November 2017 (EST)
::::After looking on the wiki, there are more for '''both'''. Just see [[Moo Moo Meadows#Official descriptions|this]]. But, the wiki goes after "most commonly used English name" given it is on an equal tier. Yoshi's Woolly World is also the highest tier also. Since this is the case, Moo Moo should be used. But, naming it cow isn't necessary contradicting. Notice how we call Poodles or Beagles dogs. I would suspect something similar, but I don't have any proof. This is why I am saying necessary. {{User:Yoshi the Space Station Manager/sig}} 18:52, 16 November 2017 (EST)
::::Seems to be. Right. They used the same wrong name multiple times in multiple guides. Did ''Woolly World'' also make a goof? Also, [http://www.mariomayhem.com/downloads/mario_instruction_booklets/Mario_Kart_64_-_Manual_-_N64.pdf which] [http://www.mariomayhem.com/downloads/mario_instruction_booklets/Mario_Kart_Wii-WII.pdf manual] are you citing? {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 19:54, 16 November 2017 (EST)
:::::64. Also when I typed that I didn't know a Wii guide used that name, figured if it had, it would have been brought up before a few months ago. Anyways, the description for Moo Moo Farm refers to them as cows. Also, it bugged me for years that the porcupine on this wiki was misnamed for so long, as the real name's right there, so...yeah. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 20:23, 16 November 2017 (EST)

Since the most recent naming of these familiar cows as "Moo Moo" is by a ''Mario Kart 8'' guide, and not "out of nowhere" (we've been given Moo Moo Farm, Moo Moo Meadows, Moo Moo Dairy, and Moo Moo Yoshi), I say "Moo Moo" is fine. Whatever's been used 20 years ago could be totally out-of-date (heck, "Princess Toadstool" was still very widespread at that time), so given we have an official contemporary source, "Moo Moo" should be fine. [[User:MarioComix|MarioComix]] ([[User talk:MarioComix|talk]]) 00:13, 17 November 2017 (EST)


Oops did i say 9? i meant 7... The other two Were the split. [[User:LUIGIRULES71|LUIGIRULES71]]


also in Mario Party 2 in The Ending To Mystery Land Koopa Troopa Guesses The Bloody Shadowy Figure (Which is actually Bowser LOL Spoilers) is a Cow. [[User:LUIGIRULES71|LUIGIRULES]]

:1. That's an old source compared to ''MK8'' Guide, which is to say, they could have changed their mind on the name by now (look at the case of Unagi and [[Maw-Ray]]). 2. Just because someone calls something a cow doesn't mean it can't have a more specific name. [[User:MarioComix|MarioComix]] ([[User talk:MarioComix|talk]]) 02:48, 28 December 2017 (EST)

== Name ==

{{talk}}
Have the cows ever ''actually'' been directly called "Moo Moos" in any source other than MK8's PRIMA guide? Because all I can find are "cows." And no, the farm/meadows name and occasional nods to it don't count, that'd be like saying the cows in Zelda games are called "Lon Lons" because of the similar "Lon Lon Ranch" and "Lon Lon Milk." Does, like, MKT call them that or something? [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 11:16, November 12, 2023 (EST)
:Cows don't appear as obstacles in Mario Kart Tour, so we don't benefit from an exact in-game label like what most obstacles in this game have. That said, Tour and 8 Deluxe have a Mii suit designed after the Moo Moo Meadows cows, called the "[[Mii#DLC racing suits|Moo Moo Mii Racing Suit]]". Don't know if that's anything particularly decisive, though, especially since it's named after the cow onomatopeia [[List of Mii Racing Suit names in other languages|in other languages too]]. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 11:58, November 12, 2023 (EST)
::The racing suits and yarn Yoshi skins I wouldn't count, as they're more of a "Lon Lon Milk" situation being named after the farm. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 12:03, November 12, 2023 (EST)
:::I don't think the Yoshi is named after the Mario Kart cow. The Japanese onomatopoeia is written in hiragana, while the "Moo Moo" version is consistently in katakana, and also, quite a few translations just call it "Cow Yoshi", unlike the Mario Kart suits. As for the suits, I can see the Portuguese translators at least seems to have interpreted "Moo Moo" as a noun, judging from it being "Fato de Mu Mu" and not "Fato Mu Mu", which would imply that "Mu Mu" / "Moo Moo" is the name of whatever the suit is depicting. Though the Portuguese translations aren't exactly the most reliable. Case in point, they do the same thing with the Pikmin Suit, which doesn't actually depict a Pikmin. [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 12:54, November 12, 2023 (EST)
@@ Line 94: / Line 94: @@
 :Cows don't appear as obstacles in Mario Kart Tour, so we don't benefit from an exact in-game label like what most obstacles in this game have. That said, Tour and 8 Deluxe have a Mii suit designed after the Moo Moo Meadows cows, called the "[[Mii#DLC racing suits|Moo Moo Mii Racing Suit]]". Don't know if that's anything particularly decisive, though, especially since it's named after the cow onomatopeia [[List of Mii Racing Suit names in other languages|in other languages too]]. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 11:58, November 12, 2023 (EST)
 ::The racing suits and yarn Yoshi skins I wouldn't count, as they're more of a "Lon Lon Milk" situation being named after the farm. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 12:03, November 12, 2023 (EST)
-:::I don't think the Yoshi is named after the Mario Kart cow. The Japanese onomatopoeia is written in hiragana, while the "Moo Moo" version is consistently in katakana, and also, quite a few translations just call it "Cow Yoshi", unlike the Mario Kart suits. It also has a different color scheme and lacks the bell of the Mario Kart design. The Crafted World version does have the bell, but it's simply called a "cow". As for the suits, I can see the Portuguese translators at least seems to have interpreted "Moo Moo" as a noun, judging from it being "Fato de Mu Mu" and not "Fato Mu Mu", which would imply that "Mu Mu" / "Moo Moo" is the name of whatever the suit is depicting. Though the Portuguese translations aren't exactly the most reliable. Case in point, they do the same thing with the Pikmin Suit, which doesn't actually depict a Pikmin. [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 12:54, November 12, 2023 (EST)
+:::I don't think the Yoshi is named after the Mario Kart cow. The Japanese onomatopoeia is written in hiragana, while the "Moo Moo" version is consistently in katakana, and also, quite a few translations just call it "Cow Yoshi", unlike the Mario Kart suits. As for the suits, I can see the Portuguese translators at least seems to have interpreted "Moo Moo" as a noun, judging from it being "Fato de Mu Mu" and not "Fato Mu Mu", which would imply that "Mu Mu" / "Moo Moo" is the name of whatever the suit is depicting. Though the Portuguese translations aren't exactly the most reliable. Case in point, they do the same thing with the Pikmin Suit, which doesn't actually depict a Pikmin. [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 12:54, November 12, 2023 (EST)
-::::For what it's worth, the Pikmin suit could also be referring to the ''Pikmin'' series, not sure how that affects the noun and noun-adjacent grammar in Portuguese, though. [[User:MarioComix|MarioComix]] ([[User talk:MarioComix|talk]]) 18:30, November 12, 2023 (EST)
-:::::That's a possibility, but the Animal Crossing Suit is spelled without the "de", and it's also the only obvious series name. [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 16:40, November 13, 2023 (EST)
-Two things to consider:<br>1. The Latam and European Spanish names of the Moo Moo Mii Racing Suit directly give its inspiration the ''Mu-Mu'' ("Moo-Moo") designation in brackets. This is in line with other Mii suits inspired by Mario characters, who also have the name of the original character in brackets, such as ''Mono de Mii (Huesitos)'' for Dry Bones; meanwhile, those based on generic subjects are given a mundane designation rather than something made-up, e.g. ''Mono de Mii (Reno)'' for the reindeer suit.<br>2. Somewhat contrarily, the in-game flavor text of ''Tour's'' [[Moo Moo Offroader]] kart [[Moo Moo Offroader#Profiles and statistics|invokes]] its similarity to a cow, but not a "Moo Moo". This is the case in most localizations, including {{media link|MKT Tour109 Special Offer Moo Moo Offroader.jpg|English}}, {{media link|MKT Tour109 Special Offer Moo Moo Offroader JA.jpg|Japanese}} etc. but excluding {{media link|MKT Tour109 Special Offer Moo Moo Offroader ES.jpg|Spanish}}, which doesn't outright mention cows or Moo Moos.{{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 11:58, November 30, 2023 (EST)
-:The example of "Lon Lon" isn't the example I'd use. Lon Lon is consistently established as a place throughout the Legend of Zelda games. This case, less so, moreso by the Mario franchises's naming conventions often being playful. The counterargument goes: inference dictates "Moo Moo" is the sound a cow makes so it's not unreasonable to assume it's referring to the cows. I know speculation is like a dirty word on this wiki, but I think this discussion is overly cautious about nomenclature here, and also I'm getting vibes of "Prima named this character a way I don't agree with so it ''must'' be a mistake on their end." {{User:Mario/sig}} 20:44, November 30, 2023 (EST)
-::While it's not unreasonable to assume it's a nod to the cows, it ''is'' unreasonable to assume that the name "Moo Moo Farm" means "a farm of Moo Moos" rather than "a farm of a generic animal that says moo." The point is more that far more sources of a higher priority ''do'' just call them cows, so saying that they should be called "Moo Moos" because it's the outlier doesn't make sense to me. Just because it's capitalized doesn't make it "proper" or "correct," which seems to be what the argument above for it was mostly based around. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 20:55, November 30, 2023 (EST)