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Talk:Piranhacus Giganticus: Difference between revisions
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==Merge with Big Piranha Plant== | ==Merge with Big Piranha Plant== | ||
{{ | {{SettledTPP}} | ||
{{ProposalOutcome|passed|6-2|Merge}} | |||
As gathered above, the Prima guide of ''New Super Mario Bros. U'' mildly implied that Big Piranha Plants are different from these Giant Piranha Plants due to the guide mentioning that Big Piranha Plants are only grounded rather than in pipes; therefore, this would support the separation, right? Looking at the [[Talk:Big_Piranha_Plant#TPP:_Merge_Piranhacus_Giganticus_with_Big_Piranha_Plant|previous proposal]], there might have also been too much emphasis on the unsourced Japanese names being the same, which can be treated as incidental at times. | As gathered above, the Prima guide of ''New Super Mario Bros. U'' mildly implied that Big Piranha Plants are different from these Giant Piranha Plants due to the guide mentioning that Big Piranha Plants are only grounded rather than in pipes; therefore, this would support the separation, right? Looking at the [[Talk:Big_Piranha_Plant#TPP:_Merge_Piranhacus_Giganticus_with_Big_Piranha_Plant|previous proposal]], there might have also been too much emphasis on the unsourced Japanese names being the same, which can be treated as incidental at times. | ||
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#{{User|Bwburke94}} Per all. | #{{User|Bwburke94}} Per all. | ||
#{{User|Burningdragon25}} That's a merge! I approve this proposal! | #{{User|Burningdragon25}} That's a merge! I approve this proposal! | ||
#{{User|Lord Grammaticus}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|Magikrazy}} I'm surprised this wasn't merged sooner. | |||
===Keep=== | ===Keep=== | ||
#{{User|Andymii}} While I appreciate the purpose of this proposal and have read the arguments, many thing still have to be touched upon, starting with how the two have different attack patterns. Piranhacus Giganti are the same as regular Piranha Plants, just bigger. Big Piranha Plants, on the other hand, sways around erratically. As they have no pipes, they also serve as a semi-permanent obstacle, while a regular Piranhacus Gigantus can simply be timed. Merging the two species together would be along the lines of merging, say, a [[Venus Fire Trap]] with the Regular Piranha Plant article. Using this logic, all the Piranha Plant-related characters could then technically be put under on page, which would be a mess. The bottom line is this: they attack differently, look different, are named different, and all and all, ''are'' different, albeit under the same family of species. | #{{User|Andymii}} While I appreciate the purpose of this proposal and have read the arguments, many thing still have to be touched upon, starting with how the two have different attack patterns. Piranhacus Giganti are the same as regular Piranha Plants, just bigger. Big Piranha Plants, on the other hand, sways around erratically. As they have no pipes, they also serve as a semi-permanent obstacle, while a regular Piranhacus Gigantus can simply be timed. Merging the two species together would be along the lines of merging, say, a [[Venus Fire Trap]] with the Regular Piranha Plant article. Using this logic, all the Piranha Plant-related characters could then technically be put under on page, which would be a mess. The bottom line is this: they attack differently, look different, are named different, and all and all, ''are'' different, albeit under the same family of species. | ||
#{{User|Stonehill}} Per Andymii. You need reliable sources before you can merge the two. Plus, what name will be given when they '''''are''''' merged? | |||
===Comments=== | ===Comments=== | ||
@Andymii Regular Piranha Plants do the same thing in some games (Super Mario 64, for one). Does that make them a new species? [[User:Binarystep|Binarystep]] ([[User talk:Binarystep|talk]]) 14:40, 18 April 2015 (EDT) | @Andymii Regular Piranha Plants do the same thing in some games (Super Mario 64, for one). Does that make them a new species? [[User:Binarystep|Binarystep]] ([[User talk:Binarystep|talk]]) 14:40, 18 April 2015 (EDT) | ||
:Well, if the Mario 64 plants are officially called "Piranha Plants," then the developers wanted them to be the same (many things were tweaked from the change to 3D, says there had been on other 3D game to base it upon). Again, if we are going to merge based on the fact that they are similar, then we might as well put ''all'' Piranha Plant species under one page, which I find illogical. [[User:Andymii|Andymii]] ([[User talk:Andymii|talk]]) 12:04, 19 April 2015 (EDT) | :Well, if the Mario 64 plants are officially called "Piranha Plants," then the developers wanted them to be the same (many things were tweaked from the change to 3D, says there had been on other 3D game to base it upon). Again, if we are going to merge based on the fact that they are similar, then we might as well put ''all'' Piranha Plant species under one page, which I find illogical. [[User:Andymii|Andymii]] ([[User talk:Andymii|talk]]) 12:04, 19 April 2015 (EDT) | ||
::I've already addressed this under #3 - the current difference between a Big Piranha Plant and Piranhacus Giganticus (which, might I add, hasn't been used for nearly two decades) applies to normal Piranha Plants, Fire Piranha Plants, and Ice Piranha Plants, and splitting ''those'' on the same merits would be a nightmare. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 16:25, 19 April 2015 (EDT) | |||
@Stonehill - Can you elaborate what you mean? It should be understood that official references already don't distinguish between the grounded and pipe-dwelling normal Piranha Plants, Fire Piranha Plants and Ice Piranha Plants, and these reliable sources also don't mention a similar explicit difference between the large grounded (what we have as Big Piranha Plant, the modern name) and pipe-dwelling (Piranhacus Giganticus/Giant Piranha Plant, a name last used in supplemental ''SMB3'' material) varieties. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 12:12, 25 April 2015 (EDT) | |||
:::What I mean is, you need very reliable sources from areas other than Prima guides (considering how much the Prima guides and Nintendo are apart from each other). Most of your observations are what you've come up with yourself. {{User:Stonehill/signature}} | |||
::::@Andymii vs. LinkTheLefty - Referring to what LinkTheLefty said, that's not a very valid argument. {{User:Stonehill/signature}} | |||
:::::@Stonehill - Isn't "reliable sources from areas other than Prima guides" exactly that what I've done? What's not valid about the observation that, since these two appear alongside each other in ''New Super Mario Bros. U'', they display about as many differences as normal Piranha Plants, Fire Piranha Plants and Ice Piranha Plants do on the ground versus in pipes? Would it be a better thing for the wiki to go the other direction and split normal Piranha Plants, Fire Piranha Plants and Ice Piranha Plants between grounded and pipe versions using these same amount of differences? A lot of [[MarioWiki:Naming#Name_changes|name changes]] don't have a formal statement (or "reliable source") from Nintendo saying something along the lines of, "we are now officially calling this thing something else now." This proposal is like many other merges in that we have to rely on our own design, gameplay and translation-related observations. For example, we've concluded that ''SMB3'' Grand Goombas are the same as modern Big Goombas despite the latter splitting into two in the ''NSMB'' games, or that the homing Fish Bones in the ''NSMB'' games are not a separate "Missile Bill" type of species. If we were as strict as to require a declaration on every little detail, Princess Peach might be one of the few merged articles from Toadstool. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 12:06, 29 April 2015 (EDT) | |||