94,025
edits
Talk:Moneybags: Difference between revisions
→Oppose
(→True name, again: new section) |
LinkTheLefty (talk | contribs) (→Oppose) |
||
| (15 intermediate revisions by 6 users not shown) | |||
| Line 61: | Line 61: | ||
== True name, again == | == True name, again == | ||
Why is the name Moneybag not used again as the page title, seeing as it comes from a Nintendo-created page about Mario 64? The Moneybags and Money Bags plural names come from the NSMB Player's Guide which, as stated above, is already "rife with mistakes" anyway, and the SM64 Player's Guide, respectively. I believe by normal means the Nintendo JP website should take presedence over a guidebook. I would have made this change myself but seeing as this was an agreed-upon decision before I figured it was appropriate to put on here. ~ [[User:Qyzxf|Qyzxf]] ([[User talk:Qyzxf|talk]]) 22:45, September 25, 2023 (EDT) | |||
:What it comes down to mainly is that they haven't appeared in a new game and the wiki generally makes it a point to use the names as they evolved over time, and since the site takes an entirely different approach where they retroactively use the modern names (which I guess works for their purposes), we get to keep the 'pluralized' form they had officially for over twenty years straight (and it doesn't help that the 'singular' started off being [[Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia#List of English translation mistakes and names from the Super Mario Wiki|unofficial]]). [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 23:20, September 25, 2023 (EDT) | |||
::But it's also a rule to use the current name as the title regardless ([[Nipper Dandelion]], [[Propeller Piranha]], etc.), and honestly I think it's entirely plausible that Nintendo just decided to change the name to the more logical singular version independently from the wiki. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 13:29, November 17, 2023 (EST) | |||
:::In general cases (not all, but often), if a more recent name comes from a lower priority source, the older name still stays as the title; otherwise we'd have, say, moved Banzai Bill to Bomber Bill. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 15:20, November 17, 2023 (EST) | |||
::::Portal also had its own collection of outright typos; for example, the SM64 page repeatedly misspells Piranha Plant as Piranha ''Plan''. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 15:24, November 17, 2023 (EST) | |||
:::::I don't see much of a reason to assume this is also a typo. Piranha Plant (and also Banzai Bill) have ''plenty'' of games confirming their names, while this only seems to have been named in two guides that already disagree on how to spell it. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 21:14, November 17, 2023 (EST) | |||
==Move to Moneybag (enemy)== | |||
{{TPP}} | |||
So there's only three sources cited for the name of this enemy, and all of them disagree with each other in some way: a Super Mario 64 guide calling it "Money Bags", a New Super Mario Bros. guide (which is "rife with mistakes", according to Doc a couple sections above) calling it "Moneybags", and much more recently, Mario Portal calling it "Moneybag", without the s. It's true that we haven't moved every enemy to its Mario Portal name, but as far as I can tell, the ones we haven't are ones whose names have been confirmed in a bunch of games up to recently (e.g. [[Banzai Bill]], [[Parabomb]]). It seems like the only reason this page hasn't been moved yet is because the singular Moneybag name first appeared in Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia, but I don't think that's a very good reason not to move it - it didn't stop [[Fireball Boy]], [[Whimp]], or [[Mega Grrrol]] from using names that also appeared in Encyclopedia and then Mario Portal. And honestly, I think it's entirely possible for them to have come up with the name "Moneybag" independently of the wiki, seeing as it's just a much more logical name than "Moneybags". | |||
'''Proposer''': {{User|Hewer}}<br> | |||
'''Deadline''': May 13, 2024, 23:59 GMT | |||
===Support=== | |||
#{{User|Hewer}} Per proposal. | |||
#{{User|Jdtendo}} Per proposal. Moreover, per [[MarioWiki:Naming#Acceptable_sources_for_naming|naming policy]], a name from an official Nintendo-hosted website has higher priority over any physical guide source. | |||
===Oppose=== | |||
#{{User|PrincessPeachFan}}: We have two strategy guides saying Moneybags and official sources disagreeing with each other is nothing new. Just check out Gnawties from Donkey Kong 64 which were only called that in the manual whereas literally everything else calls them beavers. | |||
#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} My position is admittedly weaker with the naming policy adjustment, but the fact remains: it's not a source contemporary with the original release of the game (or any releases, for that matter), so it breaks the wiki's spirit of generally keeping the legacy names as they were used at the time, and there is still no new game with the new spelling. (Honestly, I might suggest to rethink tiers 2 and 3 with either a swap or a merge.) As for judging our sources based on mistakes, I'd say that the ''New Super Mario Bros.'' Player's Guide is arguably the ''least'' mistake-ridden; sure, the "Sumo" Sledge Bro raises eyebrows, but I think there was probably just internal miscommunication due to Sledge Bro's Japanese name also changing, and it lasted as late as the ''New Super Mario Bros. U'' Prima guide. | |||
===Comments=== | |||
As LinkTheLefty pointed out above: In general cases (not all, but often), if a more recent name comes from a lower priority source, the older name still stays as the title; otherwise we'd have, say, moved Banzai Bill to Bomber Bill. And as Doc pointed out, the portal has a lot of naming errors anyways. [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 08:54, April 30, 2024 (EDT) | |||
:As I said in my vote, per [[MarioWiki:Naming#Acceptable_sources_for_naming|naming policy]], a name from the Mario Portal has higher priority over physical guides. This is not comparable to the "Banzai Bill"/"Bomber Bill" situation because the name "Banzai Bill" has been used in games (which means it is a higher-priority name than the name "Bomber Bill" which has yet to appear in a Mario game) whereas the name "Moneybags" has never appeared in any game to begin with. Besides, official guides make a lot of naming errors as well. {{User:Jdtendo/sig}} 09:09, April 30, 2024 (EDT) | |||
::<s>I concur with official guides making naming errors as well; I'm still under the impression that the "Swoopin' Stu" name was misplaced to [[Gooble]] and was supposed to be for the [[Winged Strollin' Stu]], as well as that "[[Snifit (Super Mario 64)|Snufit]]" and "Sniffit" may be typos.</s> {{User:Arend/sig}} 11:29, April 30, 2024 (EDT) | |||
:LinkTheLefty's argument above is outdated, as the naming policy was updated in January to prioritise official websites over guides. Of our three sources for this enemy's name, Portal wins both recency and source priority, so why shouldn't we use it? This is nothing like Banzai Bill using that name in a ton of games for years - our only source for "Moneybags" is one old, "rife with mistakes" book. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 11:24, April 30, 2024 (EDT) | |||
::No more rife with mistakes than portal, which has just as many blatant misspellings per available word as the guide does. The singularization this time is a potential mistake; "moneybags" is essentially slang for a rich person, like the Spyro character and how the Monopoly guy is named Uncle Pennybags. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 11:36, April 30, 2024 (EDT) | |||
:::In that case, Portal should take priority per naming policy. This is a case where I feel like there's no way of knowing if it was truly a "mistake" or not, since both of the names make sense, and I'd rather just go with the much more recent and higher priority name than pick favourites. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 11:53, April 30, 2024 (EDT) | |||