94,025
edits
Talk:Donkey Kong (game): Difference between revisions
m
→Arcade release dates: I think these games are more or less settled.
LinkTheLefty (talk | contribs) m (→Arcade release dates: I think these games are more or less settled.) |
|||
| (36 intermediate revisions by 8 users not shown) | |||
| Line 39: | Line 39: | ||
== Featured Status == | == Featured Status == | ||
This article looks like its ready be nominated for a featured article. Any suggestions to improve it first? <span style="font-family:verdana; color:#red;"><font size="5">'''[[User talk:Yoshario|Y]]'''oshario'''</font></span>[[ | This article looks like its ready be nominated for a featured article. Any suggestions to improve it first? <span style="font-family:verdana; color:#red;"><font size="5">'''[[User talk:Yoshario|Y]]'''oshario'''</font></span>[[File:Yoshi Mario Hat SM64DS.png|30px]] | ||
:Well, it should probably look more like this first: [[:wikipedia:Donkey Kong (video game)|''Donkey Kong'']]. -- {{User|Son of Suns}} | :Well, it should probably look more like this first: [[:wikipedia:Donkey Kong (video game)|''Donkey Kong'']]. -- {{User|Son of Suns}} | ||
| Line 91: | Line 91: | ||
:I thought ''[[Donkey Kong Jr. (game)|Donkey Kong Jr.]]'' was the first game to call Mario "Mario". {{User:Alex95/sig}} 16:45, 19 October 2018 (EDT) | :I thought ''[[Donkey Kong Jr. (game)|Donkey Kong Jr.]]'' was the first game to call Mario "Mario". {{User:Alex95/sig}} 16:45, 19 October 2018 (EDT) | ||
::Nope, it's this game here. The instruction flyers handed out to patrons of arcades called him Mario. Not to mention the ports (including the G&W game...) [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 16:49, 19 October 2018 (EDT) | ::Nope, it's this game here. The instruction flyers handed out to patrons of arcades called him Mario. Not to mention the ports (including the G&W game...) [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 16:49, 19 October 2018 (EDT) | ||
::[https://www.arcade-museum.com/manuals-videogames/D/dk-tkg4u.pdf This] is where it's from. Please note the name is used a grand total of three times in it (always in reference to extra lives, having the grammatically nonsensical phrasing of "number of jumpman," while the rest is schematics, which would be of no interest or business to most of the patrons. The public first got background information in English {{media link| | ::[https://www.arcade-museum.com/manuals-videogames/D/dk-tkg4u.pdf This] is where it's from. Please note the name is used a grand total of three times in it (always in reference to extra lives, having the grammatically nonsensical phrasing of "number of jumpman," while the rest is schematics, which would be of no interest or business to most of the patrons. The public first got background information in English {{media link|DK English Flyer.jpg|here}}, where he is consistently called "little Mario." And of course, "jumpman" was never used in Japanese at all. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 20:29, 19 October 2018 (EDT) | ||
::OK, Glowsquid showed me that it was additionally found on [https://imgur.com/GgGz1gn the marquee card] that came with some cabinets, so that's definitely something relevant. However, we still need to take out all claims on the wiki that he was renamed for later games. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 13:34, 22 October 2018 (EDT) | ::OK, Glowsquid showed me that it was additionally found on [https://imgur.com/GgGz1gn the marquee card] that came with some cabinets, so that's definitely something relevant. However, we still need to take out all claims on the wiki that he was renamed for later games. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 13:34, 22 October 2018 (EDT) | ||
:::By the way, Mario is also referred to as "Jumpman" in [https://youtu.be/KumJPLR_wb8?t=54 the manual of ''Arcade Archives Donkey Kong''].<br>--[[User:PhGuy12|PhGuy12]] ([[User talk:PhGuy12|talk]]) 15:27, 22 October 2018 (EDT) | :::By the way, Mario is also referred to as "Jumpman" in [https://youtu.be/KumJPLR_wb8?t=54 the manual of ''Arcade Archives Donkey Kong''].<br>--[[User:PhGuy12|PhGuy12]] ([[User talk:PhGuy12|talk]]) 15:27, 22 October 2018 (EDT) | ||
::::Yeah, but Nintendo has commonly acted as though that was his only name at the time, despite that not being the case. They've probably gone down the whole "look online for own company history" rabbit hole. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 15:30, 22 October 2018 (EDT) | |||
The article prioritizes the original arcade version, mentioning that Jumpman was first rebranded as Mario in [[:File:DK English Flyer.jpg|that specific promotional flyer]] by Nintendo of America (and its [[:File:DK French Flyer.jpg|translation]]). In addition to the [https://www.arcade-museum.com/manuals-videogames/D/dk-tkg4u.pdf operation manual] and [https://imgur.com/GgGz1gn marquee card,] you can see Jumpman is still present in most other arcade materials such as an instruction [[:File:DK Instruction Page.jpg|page]] and [[:File:DK Instruction Banner.jpg|banner]], which I imagine most players would have been more immediately aware of when physically playing the game. The idea that Jumpman was never used in Japanese is also false - while we don't currently have pictures of the Japanese version explicitly showing ジャンプマン (although I'm fairly certain I've casually come across scans online somewhere), [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnu-EqVGRow&t=2m15s Don James confirmed it.] You may be thinking of when the names Ossan and then Mr. Video were tossed around when Shigeru Miyamoto was [https://web.archive.org/web/20101009201546/http://us.wii.com/iwata_asks/mario25th/vol2_page4.jsp initially] designing the character, but they never ended up in any released materials. Basically, the reason why ''Arcade Archives'' version uses Jumpman is to be as authentic to the 1981 experience as possible since Mario only overtook Jumpman in home ports the following years. So I disagree with calling this an [[List of rumors and urban legends about Mario#The usage of the name .22Jumpman.22|urban legend]] because I don't believe the article was misleading (if the ''Mario Bros.'' game page claimed that it was the first in-game reference of the name Mario, it should've been corrected a long time ago since that honor belongs to ''[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmOJN-zq6yg&t=7s Donkey Kong Junior]''). In anything, the real story should be the name of Lady / the lady, which the PAL version of ''Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS'' / ''Wii U'' claimed was originally her name in Japan when the name Pauline didn't actually appear in game material until the western NES port and then for Game Boy ''Donkey Kong'' in Japan (oddly enough, it seems it was first used in ''Saturday Supercade''). [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 13:50, 19 November 2018 (EST) | |||
:Except as I said before, players would not be familiar with the operation manual, as it was a collection of schematics intended for employers and employees only, with the name, once again, only being used in reference to the life counter. The marquee is the ''only'' area that "Jumpman" was shown to the public at the time, and it wasn't even on all machines. And you're also forgetting the fact that the G&W game's manual additionally calls him Mario, and that seems to have come before DKJr, if my ordering of the Donkey Kong gallery based on release date is any indication. As for the "why would it not have gone corrected," it was ''ages'' until Luigi's article finally acknowledged that the G&W ''Mario Bros.'' was released before the arcade game of the same name. Now that Japanese thing sounds interesting; have a source that isn't a video, so I can look at it easier? [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 16:51, 19 November 2018 (EST) | |||
::So here's something interesting: the [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ddo_WVKCd8&t=33s Japanese release] of ''Arcade Archives: Donkey Kong'' doesn't refer to Mario as Jumpman, but rather プレイヤー (Player). I could ''swear'' I've seen a Japanese flyer with ジャンプマン (Jumpman) on it, though I'm not having any luck finding it right now. I also checked [https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%89%E3%83%B3%E3%82%AD%E3%83%BC%E3%82%B3%E3%83%B3%E3%82%B0#%E3%82%AD%E3%83%A3%E3%83%A9%E3%82%AF%E3%82%BF%E3%83%BC Japanese Wikipedia] and they state with references that Mario's name is "Player" in the Japanese version and "Jumpman" in western releases. So it looks like I was mistaken and Mario was unnamed in Japanese release materials, but Nintendo of America received the development name Jumpman before being asked to make it more marketable later (which would explain why the Japanese version of the Game & Watch game called him "Kyūjo Man"). So unless we can prove otherwise, I'd be okay with flipping Mario and Jumpman around. Still, I think we're underselling how the Jumpman name became known since it seems to be the localized flyer calling him Mario and everything else arcade calling him Jumpman. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 19:00, 19 November 2018 (EST) | |||
:::There's a reason I rewrote the section on the Urban Legend page once I learned of the marquee card. The purpose of the section now is to explain how the name "Mario" was used and seemingly-preferred before the release of DKJr. or MB. People not taking into account the obscene amount of ports presumably caused a lot of confusion regarding the order of how things were named. I still need to resort the sprites in Mario, Luigi, Pauline, and Junior's galleries, but all but the first of those should be much easier. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 19:15, 19 November 2018 (EST) | |||
The spelling "Jump Man" was used in [https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=14413211357527714092&q=564+F.+Supp.+937&hl=en&as_sdt=2,5 Nintendo of America's lawsuit against Elcon Industries in 1982].--[[User:Platform|Platform]] ([[User talk:Platform|talk]]) 01:49, 3 December 2018 (EST) | |||
In ''Super Smash Bros. Ultimate'', Mario has this helpful little nugget as one of his tips: | |||
<big>Mario's Name</big> | |||
<br>When Mario first appeared in the arcade version of Donkey Kong, <br>he was known as Jumpman. The kidnapped woman was called <br>"Lady," but she was later given the name Pauline. | |||
If you select the language as Japanese, the text becomes... | |||
<big>マリオの<span class="explain" title="なまえ">名前</span>は......</big> | |||
<br>アーケード<span class="explain" title="ばん">版</span>『ドンキーコング』で<span class="explain" title="はつとうじょう">初登場</span>のマリオは、「ジャンプマン」と<span class="explain" title="よ">呼</span>ばれていた。<br><span class="explain" title="とうしょ">当初</span>、さらわれた<span class="explain" title="じょせい">女性</span>の<span class="explain" title="なまえ">名前</span>は「レディ」だったか、<span class="explain" title="のち">後</span>に「ポリーン」と<span class="explain" title="なづ">名付</span>けられた。 | |||
...which means the same thing. Nintendo of America may have indeed been adding more references to "Jumpman" in localizations, but this at least proves that Nintendo of Japan ''also'' considers Jumpman to be the main character's name in the arcade version of ''Donkey Kong'', meaning that it is not an open-and-shut case. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 18:24, 18 February 2019 (EST) | |||
:That's still nearly 38 years retroactive, from the same people who assembled a list of Pakkun Flowers by slightly editing a list from the Japanese Wikipedia. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 19:13, 18 February 2019 (EST) | |||
::Is it? We don't have access to all of the Japanese arcade materials, so it wouldn't be surprising if 「ジャンプマン」 was found ''somewhere'' (my hunch is it's in the operation manual). Not to mention, as previously pointed out, the lawsuit made reference to Jump Man and not Mario. Japanese Wikipedia disagrees with the usage of Jumpman anyway. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 19:22, 18 February 2019 (EST) | |||
:::If it comes to pass that that's true, I still think that "Mario" should be the predominantly-used name on this page, as it was used in the majority of materials it would seem, even at the time it was at its strongest. And once again, the only time it was used in a customer-intended place was the not-always-present marquee card. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 19:32, 18 February 2019 (EST) | |||
::::Problem is that it's not just the [http://www.arcade-museum.com/manuals-videogames/D/dk-tkg4u.pdf operation manual] and [https://imgur.com/GgGz1gn marquee card], but also the [[:File:DK Instruction Page.jpg|instruction page]] and [[:File:DK Instruction Banner.jpg|instruction banner]]. Mario is still overwhelmingly used in all of the home ports, though if the article splits the different versions of the game, then I suggest the arcade article use Jumpman. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 19:48, 18 February 2019 (EST) | |||
:::::That appears to be the same blurb as the marquee card on different parts of the cabinet .I wouldn't count those as separate sources. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 21:06, 18 February 2019 (EST) | |||
::::::Still, the "Jumpman" sources can be thought of as the equivalent of a booklet, while the "Mario" source can be thought of as the equivalent of a guide or other media. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 21:10, 18 February 2019 (EST) | |||
:::::::And the home ports and G&W take on the game? [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 21:35, 18 February 2019 (EST) | |||
::::::::Hence what I mean by if the article [[Talk:Luigi's Mansion#Separate Page|splits]] into port subpages. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 21:42, 18 February 2019 (EST) | |||
:::::::::Aside from those that already have, I'd say the only one that deserves it here is the Coleco Tabletop version, which is almost a different game entirely. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 21:51, 18 February 2019 (EST) | |||
== Requesting sprite of a rivet == | |||
A sprite of a [[rivet]], preferably from the arcade version should be uploaded and added to the items section.--[[User:Platform|Platform]] ([[User talk:Platform|talk]]) 07:13, 19 November 2018 (EST) | |||
== Donkey Kong NES NA Release Date == | |||
{{talk}} | |||
Hi, I am seeing a lot of disagreeing info on the internet about this game's release date. The release date for the North American release on the NES on this page says it is June 15, 1986. I haven't had any luck proving that by searching online. The most specific source I could find confirms the month but not down to the day. | |||
*Source 1: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0By3fjn1rWdp3RXVMcVBfZTdjeUk (says the arcade series are coming that year, but no specific dates) | |||
*Source 2: chrome-extension://cbnaodkpfinfiipjblikofhlhlcickei/src/pdfviewer/web/viewer.html?file=https://retrocdn.net/images/6/60/ComputerEntertainer_US_Vol.5_04.pdf (at the bottom, lists several upcoming games for the year including details of months) | |||
Does anyone have any info that may help push me in the right direction? Thanks! --[[Special:Contributions/173.167.188.51|173.167.188.51]] 21:04, 21 February 2019 (EST) | |||
:For the record, the NA [[smashwiki:Chronicle|Chronicle]] in ''[[Super Smash Bros. Brawl]]'' doesn't show the exact date either, and [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mdIg-m69Bo Masterpieces] in ''Super Smash Bros. for Wii U'' shows an ''entirely different'' date of 9/9/1988 (compare [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sGUS8MI_fM JP] - though I'm not sure if that is supposed to be the NA date as the Masterpiece dates apparently don't change in EU text, unless I'm mistaken). English ''Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia'' also claims that the US release date is 6.15.1986, but the release dates are currently an under-scrutinized part of the book and Dark Horse's "encyclopedias" have been known to mess that up too. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 11:20, September 3, 2022 (EDT) | |||
==Arcade release dates== | |||
I figured I'd put this here since it mostly concerns ''Donkey Kong'' arcade games. According to [https://archive.org/details/ArcadeGameList1971-2005/page/n57/mode/2up page 57] of アーケードTVゲームリスト国内•海外編(1971-2005), Japanese arcade release dates are as follows: 81/08 for ''Donkey Kong'', 82/08 for ''Donkey Kong Jr.'', 83/10 for ''Donkey Kong 3'', and 83/06 for ''Mario Bros.'' According to [https://archive.org/details/ArcadeGameList1971-2005/page/n129/mode/2up page 128] of the same source, the American arcade release dates are as follows: 81/10 for ''Donkey Kong'', 82/08 for ''Donkey Kong Jr.'', 83/10 for ''Donkey Kong 3'', and 83/03 for ''Mario Bros.'' However, we have currently have unsourced July dates for ''Donkey Kong'', unsourced JP October 21 / NA November dates for ''Donkey Kong 3'', and unsourced JP June 21 / NA July 20 dates for ''Mario Bros.'' (The ''Donkey Kong Jr.'' dates seem to be correct as they have 1982-relevant sources, though the NA date could be late August.) Does anyone know where the current dates come from? [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 11:20, September 3, 2022 (EDT) | |||
:''Mario Bros.'' JP already has a source. It's in the first sentence of that page. I'll dig up the sources for the rest now. The main ones are ''Game Machine'' for Japanese releases; ''Cash Box'', ''Play Meter'', ''Arcade Express'', and ''The Video Game Update'' for US releases. I've long given up on Masumi Akagi's book. Lots of stuff seem off by a month and you can't find out what is the source for each entry.--[[User:Platform|Platform]] ([[User talk:Platform|talk]]) 13:46, September 3, 2022 (EDT) | |||
== Arcade Archives == | |||
What version does the Arcade Archives version use? And no, don't say "It's the arcade version, silly", I know that. I mean Japanese or International? {{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} 13:29, March 09, 2023 (CST) | |||
:Never mind. It says so in the re-releases section. {{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} 13:40, March 28, 2023 (CST) | |||