Talk:Comet Tico: Difference between revisions

Talk:Comet Tico (edit)

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 ::::I think the rationale for that is supposedly due to the {{media link|Lumacomete.png|French-language text}} being the [[MarioWiki:Naming#Naming_an_article|first international name]], but that's not true. It might be the case for ''Super Mario Galaxy 2'' since the North American release predates the Japanese release, but it's vice versa for the first ''Super Mario Galaxy''. In-game, Butler/Polari does indeed refer to it as [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcIqX2IY9lI&t=9m53s Kometto Chico] (the corresponding English line is "''If you want to learn more about these curious comets, ask the '''Luma who knows about such things.'''''"), which we would render as [[MarioWiki:Japanese#Subjects_with_Japanese_names|Comet Tico]]. Or we could wait until the English translation of  ''[[Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia]]'' comes out, since it's listed among the other NPCs on page 126. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 08:05, 11 May 2018 (EDT)
 :::::I think it would actually be "Comet Chico". [[User:Raymond1922A|Raymond1922A]] ([[User talk:Raymond1922A|talk]]) 21:08, 13 May 2018 (EDT)
+::::::Makes sense, since that's the route Dark Horse went with ''Zelda: Arts and Artifacts'' (which was kinda disappointing...), but it still remains to be seen what they'll do here. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 21:09, 13 May 2018 (EDT)
+:::::::So can we move it to "Comet Chico"? [[User:Raymond1922A|Raymond1922A]] ([[User talk:Raymond1922A|talk]]) 17:07, 18 May 2018 (EDT)
+::::::::We should really wait for SMBE to be released so there's not a bunch of superfluous link-changing, though the amount of pages that link here through ways other than the SMG template is probably rather small. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:08, 18 May 2018 (EDT)
+::::::::"Tico" is the official romanization for ''Super Mario Galaxy'' and ''Super Mario Galaxy 2'', but "Chiko" is how it's spelled in ''Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS'' / ''Wii U''. Either way, not Chico. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 17:15, 18 May 2018 (EDT)
+:::::::::OK, so it ended up being pointless, as Dark Horse are stinky. Anyways, Tico or Chiko? [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 19:23, 23 October 2018 (EDT)
+::::::::::We'll see how things run their course, but if we wanted to reference the object data in lieu of Dark Horse, it's "<tt>TicoComet</tt>". [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 20:40, 23 October 2018 (EDT)
+:::::::::::So given how ''Jungle Beat'' names were used, that would work out as "Tico Comet" for us if we did the filename approach? [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 21:09, 23 October 2018 (EDT)
+::::::::::::It would be swapped to "Comet Tico" since most of the time filenames only consist of "base" first and descriptor second so that related objects are grouped together (also it would be more consistent with the order of the Japanese name). [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 22:51, 23 October 2018 (EDT)
+:::::::::::::Dark Horse was incompetent at this. We can't cite the encyclopedia, but is it still the english name because it's in an officially licensed encyclopedia? Also, does it have a passing mention on the Prima, or isn't mentioned at all? --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 13:41, 27 January 2019 (EST)
+::::::::::::::No, that would defeat the purpose of the [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive 52#Citing the Super Mario Encyclopedia|proposal]]; even the partial citation option was only meant for apparent new names (e.g. the ''Super Mario 64'' section's "Micro Koopa" and "Micro Piranha Plant"). "Lumacomète" was part of the co-translator's self-admitted tendency to take from wiki souces ('''despite''' there being a nice, big disclaimer for our foreign and conjectural titles), and thus citing it would be citing ourselves. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 01:05, 28 January 2019 (EST)
+:::::::::::::::I wasn't asking to cite it. Also, i don't think it's mentioned on the [[Prima]]. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 05:12, 28 January 2019 (EST)
+::::::::::::::::It isn't, unfortunately. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 07:19, 14 February 2019 (EST)
+== Move to Lumacomete ==
+{{SettledTPP}}
+{{ProposalOutcome|failed|1-8|Keep as Comet Tico}}
+Oh boy, this might be my most controversial proposal yet. The wiki [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/52#Citing_the_Super_Mario_Encyclopedia|previously banned the ''Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia'' as a source for English names]] due to Dark Horse's [https://twitter.com/SMWikiOfficial/status/1054818140675284993 laziness in using fan-made ones from the wiki for certain English subjects.] But then, the English Mario Portal came to accept that book's citogenesis as acceptable. As a result, [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/60#Partially_unban_citing_the_English_version_of_the_Super_Mario_Bros._Encyclopedia_as_official_names_for_subjects|we overturned that decision]], [[MarioWiki:Naming#Acceptable_sources_for_naming|but we are still keeping it as a last resort if no other English names exist.]] Lumacomete is one of those characters with their names taken from this wiki. It was its French name, so it was even more of an epic fail. Now, I am aware the uban did make an exception not to use that name because it has an internal one and the wiki ''does'' state that we need to use an internal name if no other names can be found. However, it is '''Japanese''' and not '''English'''. It already has a name for the English language in that cursed book. Since we have unbanned that book when it comes to English names, let's sadly go with that one.
+The most likely reason to reject this proposal is that it's a French name and not a proper English name. However, Comet Tico is a literal translation of its Japanese name. The internal data in many Mario games use literal translations. Therefore, it's much more consistent with using an actual one that appeared outside game data, which is the Encyclopedia. Yes, it sucks, but blame Nintendo's translators. And if one is to reject this proposal because it was a mistake by Dark Horse, [[Electro-Koopa_King|we have used mistakes as acceptable names before until a correct one appeared]].
+'''Proposer''': {{User|Wikiboy10}}<br>
+'''Deadline''': March 9, 2023, 23:59 GMT
+====Support====
+#{{User|Wikiboy10}} Per proposal
+====Oppose====
+#{{User|Somethingone}} Per [[MarioWiki:Naming|our policy]], development names have higher priority than Encyclopedia. And comparing Lumacometé to "Big Red Electrokoopa" is not that valid considering those are two different situations; the former is blatant citogenesis (the page was named Lumacometé for years because that was the only in-game name found, where else would Encyclopedia get "Lumacometé" from when all their other transliterations were from Japanese?), while the latter is a complicated, but fitting, name for the entity (the Electrokoopa King acts like a large, sleeping Red Electrokoopa, even if it is actually green).
+#{{user|7feetunder}} Per Somethingone. Also, the proposal on what to do with Big Red Electrokoopa (before the current name was found) did not reach a consensus, so it can hardly be used as evidence in favor of this.
+#{{User|Swallow}} Per all
+#{{User|Killer Moth}} Per all
+#{{User|LadySophie17}} Per all.
+#{{User|ThePowerPlayer}} Per all.
+#{{User|RHG1951}} Per all.
+#{{User|bwburke94}} Per all.
+====Comments====
+Isn't "Lumacomète" pretty much a literal translation, too? I don't understand why the French name should be prioritized over a Japanese one. {{User:Arend/sig}} 19:38, February 23, 2023 (EST)
+:"''Per [[MarioWiki:Naming|our policy]], development names have higher priority than Encyclopedia.''"
+:Also, when two names are on the same tier, we use the name that came from the first released version of the game. In the case of SMG, it's Japan. So even without the internal name it would still be in our policy's best interest to use "Comet Tico" and not "Lumacometé". {{User:Somethingone/sig}} 19:45, February 23, 2023 (EST)