Talk:Prince Froggy
Name in French
Are you really sure that his name is Couac La Goinfre??? La goinfre would indicate that he is in fact a she.
The preceding unsigned comment was added by Iggy Koopa Jr (talk).
Prince ≠ Princess.
Anyway, I'm fairly certain that "La" is a mistake.
Shokora (talk · edits) 07:37, 19 May 2013 (EDT)
Is it a mistake on the wiki's part or the game's part? 
It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 17:42, 19 May 2013 (EDT)
Japanese and English version
So as i understand, the original Japanese localizations consider him as just a normal Frog Pirate hence the Japanese name, while Western localizations consider him as a Loyal Prince. --83.156.220.80 10:21, 12 June 2018 (EDT)
The Prince and the Froggy
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Take note of these pages from the original Shogakukan guide - all of the boss characters are in their own section except for Prince Froggy / Frog Pirate, which is only listed among the game's enemies (it's on the top-left of the former page). In the Super Mario Advance version, an additional sentence was added stating that it also appears as the boss of World 3-4. During the encounter, Yoshi changes size, not Prince Froggy, so it is technically the same as any Frog Pirate. Also, in Tetris Attack, it is simply referred to as "Froggy", which seems like a clear attempt to merge the enemy and boss since all of these are just referred to Gerogēro in Japanese. Could both articles work under the title "Froggy"? LinkTheLefty (talk) 00:48, August 21, 2020 (EDT)
- Agreed.
DarkNight
00:53, August 21, 2020 (EDT)
- You mean "both articles" as in Frog Pirate and Prince Froggy, sharing the same Froggy title? Even if they have the same Japanese name, I haven't seen an English source which overrides Frog Pirate. That said, I'm a bit confused about the Tetris Attack appearance- to your knowledge are we sure that is the prince, or the generic enemy?
- Shokora (talk · edits) 01:16, August 21, 2020 (EDT)
- The answer to your question is 'yes,' owing to them being the same thing. Since "Frog Pirate" isn't an in-game name, it comes off to me as an awkward attempt to split what is clearly the same subject. I've been considering bringing up a merge discussion here myself. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 01:20, August 21, 2020 (EDT)
- Hmm, but what about the in-game name we do have- Prince Froggy?
- Shokora (talk · edits) 01:22, August 21, 2020 (EDT)
- I doubt that every chairlift-riding seemingly non-sentient snowman actually has a doctorate nor every generic balloon with a face on it is Germanic nobility, so they could easily all be "Prince Froggies" by the game localizer's intent. Note the localization of the game and the writing of the guide seem separate, given "Kamek" was translated as "Magikoopa" prior, was simply transliterated by the game, with the guide trying to reconcile this inconsistency with "Kamek the Evil Magikoopa." Also, let's not forget how difficult to pluralize "Hootie the Blue Fish" is. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 01:33, August 21, 2020 (EDT)
- Okay, but we shouldn't disregard the Prince title in the primary source. I think if there's ambiguity about the Tetris Attack appearance (as it's partnered with another generic enemy), the info should be moved to Frog Pirate and Froggy becomes that page's new title, and the Yoshi's Island/Mario Kun appearance remains as "Prince Froggy" because it's clearly referring to the same character. This may need a TPP to resolve.
- Shokora (talk · edits) 01:36, August 21, 2020 (EDT)
- Agree that this needs a TPP. I, for one, strongly disagree with an outright merge for the reasons Shokora mentioned.
(T|C) 01:41, August 21, 2020 (EDT)
- I'd liken this situation more to Grinder / Seedy Sally / Short Fuse / Ukiki, or maybe Nep-Enut / Submarine Nep-Enut and Boo Balloon / Blue Boo, but to be clear, my idea isn't so much to merge Frog Pirate with Prince Froggy as it is to merge both articles into a new one titled "Froggy". With Frog Pirate referring to the enemies and Prince Froggy referring to the indistinguishable one that swallows tiny Yoshi, I feel like Froggy from Tetris Attack is the "unifier" (note that the game has regular enemies in the roster in addition to bosses like Raphael The Raven). I realize that reissues are usually factored as a more recent source and thus the name would normally be Prince Froggy on a technicality, but given the unusual localization, I think we can make an exception here. Besides, it can easily be argued that Super Mario Advance 3 only left Prince Froggy as-is due to an oversight - despite much of the minor text being touched up, take a glance at the game's levels. All The Ones From The SNES-Version Retain Capitalization Of Every Word, whereas new secret levels from the GBA version have more standard titles. It seems like an obvious thing to clean up in hindsight, so you can say Froggy was the intentional rename. If not, then what's keeping Froggy from becoming its own article? LinkTheLefty (talk) 13:51, August 21, 2020 (EDT)
- I'm fine with renaming Frog Pirate to Froggy, but not something like this; after all, Prince Froggy could be considered an individual much like the other bosses in the game. Not to mention, it just seems counterintuitive to make this an exception to the treatment we usually give to separate enemies from bosses specifically if they're distinct for certain reasons. It may sound convincing on paper, but wouldn't that lead to an organizational mess? Remember, it's not always about developer intent, but rather if they work as separate articles from an organizational standpoint. All in all, this will need a TPP for that reason. (T|C) 15:47, August 21, 2020 (EDT)
- As I've shown however, official documentation we have on hand doesn't consider Prince Froggy to be any different from Frog Pirate, hence the above comparisons to the game's other odd name choices, not to mention it is unique at the only boss that doesn't transform from its default state as a regular enemy. If observations about the imported level titles and other details aren't sufficient to consider Prince Froggy's reuse an error/oversight then using Froggy as the title would require a proposal, which would be fine by me. I guess the question is, should the proposal have multiple options or do we have the idea of moving the current Frog Pirate article to Froggy should it fail? And Doc, do you still want Prince Froggy as the merged title? LinkTheLefty (talk) 16:13, August 21, 2020 (EDT)
- It doesn't particularly matter to me, Froggy or Prince Froggy can work, merged or otherwise. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 16:19, August 21, 2020 (EDT)
- As I've shown however, official documentation we have on hand doesn't consider Prince Froggy to be any different from Frog Pirate, hence the above comparisons to the game's other odd name choices, not to mention it is unique at the only boss that doesn't transform from its default state as a regular enemy. If observations about the imported level titles and other details aren't sufficient to consider Prince Froggy's reuse an error/oversight then using Froggy as the title would require a proposal, which would be fine by me. I guess the question is, should the proposal have multiple options or do we have the idea of moving the current Frog Pirate article to Froggy should it fail? And Doc, do you still want Prince Froggy as the merged title? LinkTheLefty (talk) 16:13, August 21, 2020 (EDT)
- I'm fine with renaming Frog Pirate to Froggy, but not something like this; after all, Prince Froggy could be considered an individual much like the other bosses in the game. Not to mention, it just seems counterintuitive to make this an exception to the treatment we usually give to separate enemies from bosses specifically if they're distinct for certain reasons. It may sound convincing on paper, but wouldn't that lead to an organizational mess? Remember, it's not always about developer intent, but rather if they work as separate articles from an organizational standpoint. All in all, this will need a TPP for that reason.
- I'd liken this situation more to Grinder / Seedy Sally / Short Fuse / Ukiki, or maybe Nep-Enut / Submarine Nep-Enut and Boo Balloon / Blue Boo, but to be clear, my idea isn't so much to merge Frog Pirate with Prince Froggy as it is to merge both articles into a new one titled "Froggy". With Frog Pirate referring to the enemies and Prince Froggy referring to the indistinguishable one that swallows tiny Yoshi, I feel like Froggy from Tetris Attack is the "unifier" (note that the game has regular enemies in the roster in addition to bosses like Raphael The Raven). I realize that reissues are usually factored as a more recent source and thus the name would normally be Prince Froggy on a technicality, but given the unusual localization, I think we can make an exception here. Besides, it can easily be argued that Super Mario Advance 3 only left Prince Froggy as-is due to an oversight - despite much of the minor text being touched up, take a glance at the game's levels. All The Ones From The SNES-Version Retain Capitalization Of Every Word, whereas new secret levels from the GBA version have more standard titles. It seems like an obvious thing to clean up in hindsight, so you can say Froggy was the intentional rename. If not, then what's keeping Froggy from becoming its own article? LinkTheLefty (talk) 13:51, August 21, 2020 (EDT)
- Agree that this needs a TPP. I, for one, strongly disagree with an outright merge for the reasons Shokora mentioned.
