Talk:Chestnut King

Is the name a translation error? Was this guy supposed to be the Goomba King? --Zeta 00:14, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

Not a translation error. The Chestnut King is named cos' the Kingdom Luigi traverses in TTYD has a food motif to it. My Bloody Valentine

I'm not so sure. At least in the German translation of the game, he is called "Gumba-König" (which means Goomba King, of course). "Chestnut King" is a literal translation of the Goomba King's/Goomboss' Japanese name, Kuri King (クリキング). It seems that the German translators paid more attention on the name (but not in general, they renamed Toadette "T. Tanja" this time). --Grandy02 13:04, 11 July 2008 (EDT)

I think German translations are Japanese->German and not English->German for various reasons in various games. The German names are mostly much closer to the original Japanese name. - Cobold (talk · contribs) 16:06, 11 July 2008 (EDT)

You are right, the European translations for M&L1 and PM2 are obviously based on the Japanese texts, also beacuse Vivian is a tranny in at least the French and Spanish translations. But I think PM, M&L2 and SPM translations are based on the English texts, because for some important characters the English names are used in two or more European translations in these three games (e.g. Shroobs, Tippi, Kammy Koopa, Mimi, partners in PM). --Grandy02 06:44, 12 July 2008 (EDT)

Uniqueness?

This gets its own page and not on the List of implied characters... why? 12:20, 15 July 2018 (EDT)

So do Scarlette and the Croacus dynasty (the latter of which at least have pictures). Probably due to his importance in a secondary character's little story arc, but I really don't know. I think the reason has waned over time. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 15:23, 15 July 2018 (EDT)

If the Chestnut King warrants his own article, so do Minister Crepe and Princess Eclair. Otherwise this should just be merged. 17:02, 15 July 2018 (EDT)

The reasoning given in the edit summary of List of implied characters states that the reasoning for the split was "There's enough interesting information here, plus he's referenced multiple times in Luigi's story." Since this has a similar amount of content to the section for Princess Eclair, and there are a few larger sections (Pixl Queen, for example), this seems like something that could probably be merged. --TheFlameChomp (talk) 17:17, 15 July 2018 (EDT)

I'm not seeing a good reason to keep this. Him being only mentioned in Luigi's arc, no matter how important he is in that arc, doesn't give him enough legitimacy to warrant an article of his own. He's never seen and has no bearing on the main story of The Thousand-Year Door. Any categories related to him can just be on his redirect. 18:16, 15 July 2018 (EDT)

I support merging, but to the Goomba King page. The translations in other languages and TTYD having other instances of the English translators mangling references to the original Paper Mario ("Mushville" = Toad Town, "Goomstar Temple" = Crystal Palace) makes it blatantly obvious to me it's supposed to be that character. --Glowsquid (talk) 19:06, 15 July 2018 (EDT)

That makes sense to me. We can just add a {{redirect}} to the top. 19:48, 15 July 2018 (EDT)

Redirect to what exactly? The info would go on that page alone. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 20:53, 15 July 2018 (EDT)

Could be like

"Chestnut King" redirects here. For information about the implied character from Luigi's story in Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door, see List of implied characters#Chestnut King.

on Goomboss's page. 10:44, 16 July 2018 (EDT)

Except there'd be no point....'cause they're the same person. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 14:48, 16 July 2018 (EDT)

...Oh. Misunderstood something, then ^^; I'm for that, too, I suppose :P 15:04, 16 July 2018 (EDT)

I vehemently oppose merging this with Goomba King/Goomboss. Even if the Chestnut King's Japanese name is intended as a reference to the Goomba King, it is highly unlikely they are the same character, mainly because that makes no sense. The Goomba King was a Goomba who begged Bowser to turn him into a king with the Star Rod. The Chestnut King is the lover of a princess from a completely different kingdom who was turned into a monster against his will by an evil minister. There is nothing "blatantly obvious" about this (what's "blatantly obvious" is that the people responsible for Donkey Kong Land's manual seriously botched the names of Balloon Barrage and Construction Site Fight, yet we aren't doing anything about that); there is no connection between the two besides the name, so if we merge these, we might as well merge PM Lily with SPM Lily. 17:15, 16 July 2018 (EDT)

I mean, dialogue from Luigi's partner and some of the text itself (ex: Knowing that [Luigi]'s older, though less talented, brother was out on a no-doubt inconsequential errand") hints the Super Luigi books are heavily embellished and distorted, if not outright nonsense. That the text doesn't acknowledge in any way the "Chestnut King" is a character that appeared before is pretty weird, but it can be chalked-up to in-universe sheanigans and stranger things have happened in the Mario series.

It's like: If the Treehouse guy who handed the translation didn't mangle the reference/make an arbitrary judgement call to not translate the name of the character and just called the character "King Goomba" like every other languages the game was written in, I doubt we'd get people vehemently arguing the King Goomba in The Thousand Year Door is a separate character that should be split into his own page (or spot on a list). --Glowsquid (talk) 22:59, 16 July 2018 (EDT)

Either way, Goomboss's origins already conflict between PM and SM64DS, as in the latter, he seems to be a magically merged bunch of Goombas akin to Megasparkle Goomba, as he explodes into a cloud of them when defeated, something no other boss in the game does anything comparable to. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 02:18, 17 July 2018 (EDT)

Luigi never mentions anything about the Chestnut King being a past foe of Mario's or a Goomba at all, so we have nothing to go on beyond the shared names in other languages. Everything we know about Luigi's tale comes from him, his partners, and the books, so embellished or not, they're all we've got. So the fact that it's not acknowledged that the Chestnut King is a character that appeared before is very likely because he isn't. The name "Chestnut King" was likely just chosen to go with the food theme the Waffle Kingdom has, even if the original Japanese text intentionally made it double as a throwaway reference to the first game despite the shared name making no sense in context.

As for the Goomba King being different in SM64DS, that's not really relevant as that's from a different game series; continuity between different Mario sub-series is shaky at best. We're talking about two characters from the same series. Even if you were to use Merlon and his clan as examples, the different incarnations of those characters have distinct similarities in appearance and role. The Goomba King and Chestnut King do not. There is no indication that the Chestnut King is a servant of Bowser, is or was ever a Goomba, or has ever encountered Mario. 03:22, 17 July 2018 (EDT)

How about how Chet Rippo went from being a lying fat platypus alien vampire to an honest washtub Merlon bootleg? That's pretty different.... Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 03:36, 17 July 2018 (EDT)

Completely different appearance, yes, but at least his role is identical. If it wasn't, they'd have nothing in common and that would be grounds for a split. 03:45, 17 July 2018 (EDT)

OK then, well how about instead, we split off Luigi from this story, since he was a bride and grass/"Earth Spirit" in it, neither of which are his usual role? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 03:58, 17 July 2018 (EDT)

OK, now it just sounds like you're misinterpreting my comments on purpose. You are well aware that the scenario you just presented is ridiculous, but more importantly, it does nothing to rebut my original point: a shared name, even in multiple languages, does not automatically make the Goomba King and Chestnut King the same being, especially with no other connections between the two. 04:20, 17 July 2018 (EDT)

So...proposal time? 10:18, 17 July 2018 (EDT)

@7 I'm saying your comments are making subjective exceptions, which is not a good thing. @Alex if ya want, I suppose. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 17:21, 17 July 2018 (EDT)

Going to put it on Talk:List of implied characters since this could also involve Scarlette. 17:34, 17 July 2018 (EDT)