MarioWiki:Proposals: Difference between revisions

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==Writing guidelines==
==Writing guidelines==
===Italics formatting of boat names, fictional products, and others===
''None at the moment.''
A disagreement between {{User|LinkTheLefty}} and me has started in [[Talk:The Princess Peach]], a talk page concerning a ship (not the princess herself!) in ''[[Paper Mario: The Origami King]]''. I and others advocated italicizing the name of the ship as [https://style.mla.org/format-the-name-of-a-ship/ it is consistent with MLA standards].
 
LinkTheLefty, however, argued these points:
*The suggestion to italicize ship names contradicts with [[MarioWiki:Naming#Italics]]: "''Italics are used in main and gallery namespace page titles in the same way that they are used in text.''"
*The in-game name for the ship is not italicized, and we shouldn't be italicizing names that Nintendo doesn't italicize to "fix" their formatting.
*The [[MarioWiki:Manual of Style]] makes no mention of italicizing boat names.
*MLA may not be a relevant standard to follow as it is not explicitly stated to be followed in our wiki. Additionally, style guides such as AP Stylebook or U.S. Navy Style Guide does not italicize ship names.
 
I hope I have accurately summed up LinkTheLefty's points. If I have misrepresented their comments or left out any important points being made, please let me know.
 
I, however, disagreed, arguing the following points:
*I do not see a contradiction. "Text" in the cited sentence refers to the content of an article, not in-game text as I assume that's being argued. The sentence in the naming guidelines refers to the wiki's requirement to italicize the titles of the subject to be consistent with the game text. For example, ''Mario Party 4''{{'}}s article needs to include {{tem|italic title}} to italicize the article header per policy.
*The text in a video game medium is different from in an encyclopedia and thus is not subject to formatting standards that we have. Additionally, video game medium tend to not italicize in-game names. I cite non-italicized game names from the tips from ''Super Smash Bros.''. There is also mention of [[Super Luigi series]]. Finally, we already italicize implicit names in the big list in [[List of implied entertainment]] which are likely not italicized in the in-game text.
*If our Manual of Style already takes elements from MLA (which is does by advocating italicizing "games, series, movies, television programs, albums (music) and publications (print: comics, books and magazines) [...]") but does not explicitly state adhering to MLA), then we should be expanding what needs to be italicized to include ship names and other applicable titles, even if they are fictional, in accordance to MLA (Wikipedia italicizes fictional titles too, see {{wp|Pequod (Moby-Dick)}}; I assume it's reasonable to use Wikipedia as an example).
*If MLA is not relevant, then we should be following styling standards from other wikis. Wikipedia is a major wiki and it italicizes ship names, so I believe it makes sense to try to follow Wikipedia in that regard. I do concede that there are some Wikipedia guidelines not strictly followed in our wiki ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Sic such as minor grammar and spelling errors in [sic] quotations needing to be silently corrected] while we include [sic] even for minor grammar errors).
 
My proposal is to amend our Manual of Style to add italicizing titles not already mentioned in our Manual of Style, but outlined in the MLA guidelines. We should have it be policy to italicize ship names, play names, artwork, web publications, and anything else not already mentioned in our Manual of Style. If MLA is not relevant, then we should be at least following a bit of what Wikipedia does, as we're an internet wiki that is designed similarly to Wikipedia. We also must include names of fictional elements such as fictional books, fictional games, and so on. I believe this is simply just a policy update to keep up with increasing standards with this wiki over time.
 
Even if this proposal is rejected, there has to be some clarification of what should not be italicized, and if it is rejected, I'm going to try to get a discussion running on what we can agree should not be italicized.
 
'''Proposer''': {{User|Bazooka Mario}}<br>
'''Deadline''': <s>December 26, 2020, 23:59 GMT</s> <s>January 2, 2021 23:59 GMT</s> January 9, 2021 23:59 GMT
 
====Change the guidelines====
#{{User|Bazooka Mario}} I think it's reasonable to italicize ship names and I do think policy should be updated to reflect any other applicable titles that need to be italicized and are not explicitly mentioned in our Manual of Style.
#{{User|Archivist Toadette}} I think it's reasonable enough.
#{{User|Ray Trace}} I was the one who decided to italicize ship names. I think it's formal writing and it should have been done earlier, honestly.
#{{User|DarkNight}} Per all.
#{{User|Koopa con Carne}} Per all and MLA FTW.
#{{User|Doomhiker}} Per all. Just because were not Wikipedia doesn't mean we can't do ''some'' things like Wikipedia. And using proper and professional formatting isn't "being fancy for the sake of being fancy", it's being formal.
#{{User|TheDarkStar}} - per all
#{{User|Ninja Squid}} Per all.
 
====Do not change====
#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} Per myself in The Princess Peach talk page and summarized points. <s>All</s> I'd add <s>is</s> that it's not just the text within video games that hasn't been italicizing ship names, but also ''Nintendo Power'' and related guides as far as I'm aware. Additionally, I'm still not sure why MLA style in particular should be adopted when even certain other styles disagree and have other ideas. Personally, I think a fan wiki can easily afford to adopt and discard the conventions that work best for it in its own Manual of Style, and as-is is closer to our goal of being as official as possible. Also pointing out observations in the comments below such as the full-on [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive_27#MLA_Format|rejection]] of enforcing MLA in [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive 55#Create a template for citations|proposal]]s and [[MarioWiki talk:Manual of Style#On the Topic of References|discussion]]s, shortsightedness of modeling ourselves after other wikis that don't have the same goals, science [[Halberd|fantasy]]/[[Arwing|fiction]] [[:Category:Aircraft|ve]][[:Category:Spacecraft|hi]][[:Category:Trains|cl]][[:Category:Watercraft|es]] unnecessarily affected in accordance, etc. And for those repeating that the MLA is just more "formal" - the MLA was designed with the express intent of academic/scholarly purposes. Those who drafted our Manual of Style understood that there are other valid ways to suitably formalize and knew to draw the line at overcorrection.
#{{User|Alex95}} - Having ship names in the mix would probably be confusing considering we've only been italicizing media names and nothing else. "The Princess Peach" is not a media. I think the point of italicizing titles is to make it clear on what's media and what's not (though I see the [[Super Luigi series]] is an outlier here, given it is not a real piece of media).
#{{User|Keyblade Master}} - Although this is something the Kingdom Hearts Wiki does (for the ships in the Pirates of the Carribean worlds), doing it here would be a bit too much.
#{{User|AwdryFan1997}} Per all who disagree. I like the idea of italicizing the names, don't get me wrong, but if a multimillion-dollar company like Nintendo doesn't bother with MLA, why should we? It feels like we're going out of our way to be less accurate. And, yeah, again, let me re-emphasize the "per all" thing, we're not Wikipedia and we shouldn't hold ourselves up to the MLA standards. We're MarioWiki, we're independent, and we're well past the days of being overly fancy for the sake of it. If the ship names were italicized in the games themselves, by golly would I want us to do so as well. But they don't, so, let's just not.
#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} Per all.
#{{User|Glowsquid}} Per everything LTL wrote on this topic (I will also say that the suggestion WIkipedia is in any way a standard to be followed is ''fundamentally offensive'' to me.)
#{{User|Jazama}} Per all.
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per LinkTheLefty on the issue of MLA, and I also do not agree with using the standards of other wikis such as Wikipedia to determine our own standards.
#{{User|MrConcreteDonkey}} - Per all. I can see the logic behind it and I know very little about systems like MLA, but I think keeping italics just for real-world media as it is now feels more consistent and makes a lot of sense. As for the formality argument, I really don't think most people who visit the Wiki will really notice or care if ship names etc. are italicised or not.
#{{User|Yoshi the SSM}} - Per all.
#{{User|Chester Alan Arthur}} Per all
#{{User|Power Flotzo}} Per all.
 
====Comments====
Alex95: According to guidelines, this won't lead to italicizing shop names and locations as they're not normally italicized. See [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Titles#Major_works Wikipedia] as a bit of a guide to see how things will get italicized (note that ship names are indeed one of the few things not in the big list of long works that are italicized). There seems to be a reasoning behind the italicization of ship names ([https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/320181/why-are-vessel-names-italicized#320187 here]). Whether a work is fictional or not seems irrelevant, as, again, I cite [[List of implied entertainment]].
 
Keyblade Master: There has to be a reason Kingdom Hearts Wiki does this? Why can't MarioWiki do it? {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 18:42, December 12, 2020 (EST)
:Different Wikis don't have to have the same rules as each other. They even allow strategy writing while we don't. {{User:Keyblade Master/sig}}
:I understand there's a precedent for italicizing ship names. I just think we should keep it to media titles, for this wiki, so people don't think ''The Princess Peach'' is a book title or something. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 18:47, December 12, 2020 (EST)
::I'm fairly certain context clues help out identifying what the title is rather than glancing at a name, as it can be argued that you could also mistake ''Super Luigi'' series as a video game series and not a fictional book series. {{User:Ray Trace/sig}} 18:50, December 12, 2020 (EST)
:::Fair enough. It's a personal preference, then. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 18:51, December 12, 2020 (EST)
::(ec) Keyblade Master: This is true that our policies and styling should not mirror wikis just because other wikis do it, but I'm asking for why this needs to be different in MarioWiki than in other wikis? We do have certain formatting consistencies across wikis, including italicizing game names and bolding the first instance of an article name in the body text, and my reasoning for this is that there's a sort of implicit formatting professional standard that emphasizes readability and consistency.
::(ec) Italics will not introduce confusion. Chances are, many readers already know names for ships are already in italics as it's widely practiced (even if not always consistent) in other wikis, and even if MarioWiki is their first exposure to an italicized ship name, they can easily take inferences from context clues what the ''Princess Peach'' refers to and learn that ship names are in italics. Furthermore, italics already encompass many different kinds of works and is always reliant on context; ''Donkey Kong Country: Rescue on Crocodile Isle'' is referring to a book but can easily be interpreted as a title for a video game without any context or prior knowledge of the media. {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 18:58, December 12, 2020 (EST)
:::I'm not sure how ''Kingdom Hearts'' handles things (preliminary glancing suggests that series also doesn't italicize ships but there are so many different games and versions it may not be consistent), but I don't think it was sufficiently [[Talk:The Princess Peach|answered]] why the wiki must adopt this aspect of MLA style specifically when Nintendo themselves demonstrably do not. Other styles are just as valid if not moreso for the general purposes of a wiki. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 05:22, December 13, 2020 (EST)
::::Nintendo is inconsistent with italicizing game titles: they don't do it for in-game text either, especially in Smash Bros. bios for characters where game titles are left unitalicized. I don't think they're the ideal model to look to when it comes to formatting things in an encyclopedic fashion because they serve a different medium: it's unnecessary for them to italicize things for in-game purposes. {{User:Ray Trace/sig}} 14:53, December 13, 2020 (EST)
:::::But I still fail to understand what makes going further with MLA style ideal for this encyclopedia. There's a difference between italicizing subjects that exist in the real world and italicizing subjects that have never been officially italicized as they simply don't exist. In the end, it's a stylistic choice that not everyone universally uses - so again, why even enforce MLA in particular? Consider also that the [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive 27#MLA Format|topic]] [[MarioWiki talk:Manual of Style#On the Topic of References|of]] [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive 55#Create a template for citations|MLA]] has come up several times in the past, and each time it was decided not to strictly use it. Also, I understand that not all in-game text supports italics - which is why I am additionally referencing [https://archive.org/details/NintendoGameBoyManuals/Wario%20Land%20-%20Super%20Mario%20Land%203%20%28World%29/page/n9/mode/2up manuals,] ''Nintendo Power'', and related guides and supporting material, where it would have made the most sense to italicize these things (for example, [http://web.archive.org/web/19980610012500/http://www.nintendo.com/gb/wario_land_ii/2.html here] is the "SS Tea Cup" on the ''Wario Land II'' website). Different styles are meant for different purposes - for example, the U.S. Navy Style Guide specifies not to use "the" before a ship's name, running counter to "the Sweet Stuff" and "the Princess Peach" among all other mentions - so is it really our role to fix what, by most accounts, isn't broken? [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 16:12, December 13, 2020 (EST)
::::::I realize that we're not explicitly using MLA but I think italics for works and the odd ship name is the way to go and in terms of general formatting, I think it's best to follow closer to that. I don't think it's that much of a major change but I'd like to see text for ship names appear similar to the ship names in Wikipedia, as well as fictional works. Citations ''should'' be formatted by the way and there's agreement that we need the formatting here and I'll still pressure featured articles to have proper sourcing. I think style guides can be inconsistent and some game guides don't italicize ship names, but I'm not really seeing the connection we have to make between game guides and wiki compared to looking at examples from big wikis. I will ask, however, about the reasoning for format to begin with: why do we bold the first instance of the subject in an article? Why italicize game names at all? Why even encourage italics for practically all major works (quotations for smaller works) and stop at ship names (as well as names for things not mentioned in our Manual of Style including web publications and artwork; what if a famous pop artist creates a titled work about Mario? should we not italicize even if it's not explicitly spelled out in the Manual of Style?) even if ship names are usually included? Why put dates in citations in parentheses? Why forbid the use of 2nd person? Why discourage contractions? In the end, this might just boil down to fundamental disagreement on how to format prose, but I feel the reasons for stopping at ship titles are reliant on nonencyclopedic styling from other sources, that we aren't adopting MLA (which is technically true it appears but I do not see the harm in using its suggestions especially when other encyclopedias do this) and the argument that we aren't Wikipedia (this needs to be backed up to why we should deviate here; only example given was the formatting on a video game article name regarding ''NiGHTS into Dreams'' which I do not think is a strong case against italicizing ship names and fictional works), which I do not agree. {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 21:00, December 13, 2020 (EST)
:::::::The change from ''NiGHTS into Dream...'' to ''Nights into Dreams'' is one I can only charitably describe as braindead idiocy, but if you want more examples of Mario Wiki articles that would be butchered under Wikipedia standards, a lot of titles should probably be considered generic within their context - meaning that we would uncapitalize the names of [[ape]], [[bear (enemy)|bear]], [[Bee (Super Mario Land 2: 6 Golden Coins)|b]][[Bee#Yoshi's Story|e]][[Bee (Wario Land II)|e]][[Bee (Donkey Kong Jungle Beat)|s]], [[chicken]], [[cobra]], [[cook]], [[Drill Bit|drill bit]], [[Ghost (Piranha Plant)|ghost]], [[hog]], [[Hot Dog (item)|hot]] [[Hot Dog (enemy)|dog]] [[Hot Dog Stand|stand]], [[Maw-Ray|unagi]], [[Poison Mushroom|poison mushroom]], [[poltergeist]], [[raccoon]], [[Sea Turtle|sea turtle]], [[shadow]], [[Small Spider|small spider]], [[Snake (Mario Clash)|snake]], [[twister]], [[urchin]], among dozens of others. Then what? Do those names become unusable, or are we merely "fixing" Nintendo's "mistake"? Is that not going to put off readers expecting something more out of this wiki and have for years seen this corner of the Internet as being next to official to their interests? Frankly, becoming more like other wikis means going down a rabbit hole that I'll refuse to part of, so let's try to keep the discussion about "MLA style and its merits" instead of "MLA style because of Wikipedia". Now, our Manual of Style certainly does use a few elements of MLA*, but previous attempts to adopt MLA [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive 27#MLA Format|wholesale]] have been shot down (the main argument against [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive 55#Create a template for citations|this]], by the way, isn't that we ''shouldn't'' properly source citations, but rather that such templates are too restrictive to one arbitrarily "right" style, promote unnecessary elitism, would be too cumbersome to enact, etc.). As for a reason for not italicizing ship names that doesn't boil down to "this is my personal preference"? Well, aside from the idea that it is not our place to "fix" Nintendo's fiction (interpretations are one thing, but corrections are another), keep in mind that said fiction is a fantastical video game franchise with outlandish things such as [[Doom Ship|fanciful]] [[Rainbow Cruiser|airship]]s, [[Jumbo Barrel|barrel]] [[Biplane Barrel|aircraft]]s, [[Submarine Yoshi|vehicle]] [[Train (form)|transformation]]s, and [[Flying Pizza|advanced]] [[Pleiades|spaceship]]s - are we really going to italicize all of these too despite how silly we will look? And if not, "why stop there" if it's MLA? If so, what about cases like the multipurpose [[Dribble Taxi]], where there's no clear idea on if it should be unitalicized like most other automobiles or italicized like most other vessels? I just think this is much more trouble than it's worth. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 06:25, December 14, 2020 (EST)
::::::::You are misinterpreting the goal of that citation proposal. The template would have been used in the same vein as <nowiki>{{</nowiki>[[:Template:Ref quote|ref quote]]<nowiki>}}</nowiki> in that it would have been an option for editors who opt for some formatting consistency. Also, promoting "elitism"? I see that as adhering to more academic conventions. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 07:37, December 14, 2020 (EST)
:::::::::There are many other reasons it lost as sorting through all those comments is outside the scope of this discussion and, frankly, irrelevant (anyone is urged to read through and decide for themselves if those reasons are justified in their free time, hence "etc.", but I'm not the only one who disagrees with the notion that it must mean we do not encourage proper citations) - it serves as an example of MLA being brought up and rejected by other users in the past. I will address the "academic / looking to Wikipedia" angle as I feel it is relevant here: the simple fact is that we are not an academic resource, and {{wp|Wikipedia:Academic use|neither is Wikipedia}}. Furthermore, Wikipedia has a motto called {{wp|Wikipedia:Verifiability, not truth|verifiability, not truth}}. How about {{wp|Wikipedia:No original research|no original research}}? That would mean many things like [[Special:Contributions/Dayvvbrooks|Dayvv Brooks]] and [[Talk:Virtual Boy Wario Land#Official boss names|NOA]] [[Talk:Wario Land II#Some more enemy names|emails]] are out the window. {{wp|Wikipedia:No original research#Using sources|Primary sources}}? Our stance is basically backwards from theirs. Among a myriad of reasons, modeling ourselves after Wikipedia (or most other wikis for that matter) does not suit the goals and needs of the Super Mario Wiki, which is to accurately represent all things ''Mario''. It does no one any favors to get wrapped up in the trivialities of the formatting originating from more general wikis. Let's not use this as an excuse to sidestep active issues though. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 08:23, December 14, 2020 (EST)
::::::::::I will not disagree that this wiki has certain fundamentals that differentiate us from Wikipedia, such as our focus on original research--[[Talk:Game Over#Verification through video clips|which I attempted to address in some capacity several years ago]]. However, us having a much lighter verification system (nonetheless dictated by the scope of our wiki) does not mean we should ignore certain conventions that are telling of a, dare I say, professional and believable medium. While wikis are generally unacceptable in academic sources, let's not forget that they in and of themselves are collections of research made by a community of users, which asks for certain conventions to be put in place. The bottom line is that this wiki is made of constants and variables; we are compatible with Wikipedia in some areas and in others we are not, and if something they do wouldn't harm our wiki or contradict its manual of style, I personally see no reason not to borrow from them. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 09:10, December 14, 2020 (EST)
:::::::::::The thing about the video clip proposal is that I believe it falls under in-game/media references, which are generally removed or considered unneeded (I do personally think we can change it a bit, but that's neither here nor there). That brings us full circle, however: why the need to borrow this aspect from MLA? I've been asking this since almost the start but I still don't have a satisfactory answer ("[[Special:Diff/3084638|I'm not 100% sure]]" didn't exactly inspire confidence). If there are "some Wikipedia guidelines not strictly followed in our wiki" then why the push to be more like Wikipedia? It shouldn't mainly be because it's popular on other wikis, since it's been demonstrated how being much more like Wikipedia would only cause upheavals. Why does ''that'' style make ''this'' wiki more "professional" over other styles? I think a far more valuable trait on a wiki like this is internal consistency; a regular reader should not flip through game worlds and have to wonder why one level is suddenly the odd one out or find inconsistent italicization between a similar-themed [[Super Ludship|nickname]] and [[Super Ludsub|real name]]. What about quotations? Those are already in italics, so we are losing detail when we are adding italics to things that don't already have them outside of quotes (this is already a minor annoyance of mine with about templates, but I digress). I realize this is anecdotal, but I've seen the Super Mario Wiki referred to as the "gold standard" in casual conversation within the past year or so. Let's keep it that way. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 11:15, December 14, 2020 (EST)
::::::::::::From what I understand, the subject we refer to as "The Princess Peach" on the wiki is the overarching area around the actual ship, not the ship itself. If so, this would make it a similar case to levels and ''WarioWare'' microgames named directly after certain games, such as [[Super Mario Kart (microgame)]], which we do not italicize on grounds of it not being ''the'' game ''[[Super Mario Kart]]''. So too we wouldn't italicize [[The Princess Peach]] (and any other gameplay area names based on ships, such as [[Gangplank Galleon (world)]]) as it is not the ship itself. This eliminates the possibility you mentioned of leaving readers confused as to why one level stands out among the rest; any mentions of the actual ship will, however, be italicized if the proposal passes, and that applies to ''[[S.S. Caviar]]'', ''[[Daisy Cruiser]]'' and ''[[Gangplank Galleon]]'' as well, along with all the other ships in the ''Mario'' universe. Also, can you provide examples in print or digital media where Nintendo italicized game titles? The ''Wario Land'' manual you offered above does not format the game's title in any distinctive way, so the point that the S.S. Teacup should remain unitalicized according to that falls asunder. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 13:45, December 16, 2020 (EST)
 
@Glowsquid: How is following ''some'' of Wikipedia's guidelines "fundamentally offensive" to you? This proposal doesn't automatically call for a sudden following of Wikipedia standards to the letter. {{User:Archivist Toadette/sig}} 14:09, December 16, 2020 (EST)
: The last bullet point in the main proposal textstates "If MLA is not relevant, then we should be following styling standards from other wikis. Wikipedia is a major wiki and it italicizes ship names, so I believe it makes sense to try to follow Wikipedia in that regard." The main thrust of the proposal may not be "We should do it because Wikipedia does it" but the quoted is an implication that Wikipedia's adoption of the standard, in some way, legitimizes it or makes it preferable. I am stating my disagreement with ''that'' idea. --[[User:Glowsquid|Glowsquid]] ([[User talk:Glowsquid|talk]]) 16:48, December 16, 2020 (EST)


==New features==
==New features==

Revision as of 03:39, January 10, 2021

Image used as a banner for the Proposals page

Current time:
Thursday, March 28th, 10:42 GMT

Proposals can be new features (such as an extension), the removal of previously-added features that have tired out, or new policies that must be approved via consensus before any action is taken.
  • "Vote" periods last for one week.
  • Any user can support or oppose, but must have a strong reason for doing so (not, e.g., "I like this idea!").
  • All proposals must be approved by a majority of voters, including proposals with more than two options.
  • For past proposals, see the proposal archive and the talk page proposal archive.

A proposal section works like a discussion page: comments are brought up and replied to using indents (colons, such as : or ::::) and all edits are signed using the code {{User|User name}}.

How to

Rules

  1. If users have an idea about improving the wiki or managing its community, but feel that they need community approval before acting upon that idea, they may make a proposal about it. They must have a strong argument supporting their idea and be willing to discuss it in detail with the other users, who will then vote about whether or not they think the idea should be used. Proposals should include links to all relevant pages and writing guidelines. Proposals must include a link to the draft page. Any pages that would be largely affected by the proposal should be marked with {{proposal notice}}.
  2. Only registered, autoconfirmed users can create, comment in, or vote on proposals and talk page proposals. Users may vote for more than one option on proposals with more than two choices.
  3. Proposals end at the end of the day (23:59) one week after voting starts, except for writing guidelines and talk page proposals, which run for two weeks (all times GMT).
    • For example, if a proposal is added at any time on Monday, August 1, 2011, the voting starts immediately and the deadline is one week later on Monday, August 8, at 23:59 GMT.
  4. Every vote should have a strong, sensible reason accompanying it. Agreeing with a previously mentioned reason given by another user is accepted (including "per" votes), but tangential comments, heavy sarcasm, and other misleading or irrelevant quips are just as invalid as providing no reason at all.
  5. Users who feel that certain votes were cast in bad faith or which truly have no merit can address the votes in the comments section. Users can ask a voter to clarify their position, point out mistakes or flaws in their arguments, or call for the outright removal of the vote if it lacks sufficient reasoning. Users may not remove or alter the content of anyone else's votes. Voters can remove or rewrite their own vote at any time, but the final decision to remove another user's vote lies solely with the administrators.
    • Users can also use the comments section to bring up any concerns or mistakes in regards to the proposal itself. In such cases, it's important the proposer addresses any concerns raised as soon as possible. Even if the supporting side might be winning by a wide margin, that should be no reason for such questions to be left unanswered. They may point out any missing details that might have been overlooked by the proposer, so it's a good idea as the proposer to check them frequently to achieve the most accurate outcome possible.
  6. If a user makes a vote and is subsequently blocked for any amount of time, their vote is removed. However, if the block ends before the proposal ends, then the user in question holds the right to re-cast their vote. If a proposer is blocked, their vote is removed and "(banned)" is added next to their name in the "Proposer:" line of the proposal, which runs until its deadline as normal. If the proposal passes, it falls to the supporters of the idea to enact any changes in a timely manner.
  7. No proposal can overturn the decision of a previous proposal that is less than 4 weeks (28 days) old.
  8. Any proposal where none of the options have at least four votes will be extended for another week. If after three extensions, no options have at least four votes, the proposal will be listed as "NO QUORUM." The original proposer then has the option to relist said proposal to generate more discussion.
  9. All proposals that end up in a tie will be extended for another week. Proposals with more than two options must also be extended another week if any single option does not have a majority support: i.e. more than half of the total number of voters must appear in a single voting option, rather than one option simply having more votes than the other options.
  10. If a proposal with only two voting options has more than ten votes, it can only pass or fail by a margin of three votes, otherwise the deadline will be extended for another week as if no majority was reached at all.
  11. Proposals can only be extended up to three times. If a consensus has not been reached by the fourth deadline, the proposal fails and can only be re-proposed after four weeks, at the earliest.
  12. All proposals are archived. The original proposer must take action accordingly if the outcome of the proposal dictates it. If it requires the help of an administrator, the proposer can ask for that help.
  13. If the administrators deem a proposal unnecessary or potentially detrimental to the upkeep of the Super Mario Wiki, they have the right to remove it at any time.
  14. Proposals can only be rewritten or deleted by their proposer within the first three days of their creation (six days for talk page proposals). However, proposers can request that their proposal be deleted by an administrator at any time, provided they have a valid reason for it. Please note that canceled proposals must also be archived.
  15. Unless there is major disagreement about whether certain content should be included, there should not be proposals about creating, expanding, rewriting or otherwise fixing up pages. To organize efforts about improving articles on neglected or completely missing subjects, try setting up a collaboration thread on the forums.
  16. Proposals cannot be made about promotions and demotions. Users can only be promoted and demoted by the will of the administration.
  17. No joke proposals. Proposals are serious wiki matters and should be handled professionally. Joke proposals will be deleted on sight.
  18. Proposals must have a status quo option (e.g. Oppose, Do nothing) unless the status quo itself violates policy.

Basic proposal and support/oppose format

This is an example of what your proposal must look like, if you want it to be acknowledged. If you are inexperienced or unsure how to set up this format, simply copy the following and paste it into the fitting section. Then replace the [subject] - variables with information to customize your proposal, so it says what you wish. If you insert the information, be sure to replace the whole variable including the squared brackets, so "[insert info here]" becomes "This is the inserted information", not "[This is the inserted information]". Proposals presenting multiple alternative courses of action can have more than two voting options, but what each voting section is supporting must be clearly defined. Such options should also be kept to a minimum, and if something comes up in the comments, the proposal can be amended as necessary.


===[insert a title for your proposal here]===
[describe what issue this proposal is about and what changes you think should be made to improve how the wiki handles that issue]

'''Proposer''': {{User|[enter your username here]}}<br>
'''Deadline''': [insert a deadline here, 7 days after the proposal was created (14 for writing guidelines and talk page proposals), at 23:59 GMT, in the format: "March 28, 2024, 23:59 GMT"]

====Support====
#{{User|[enter your username here]}} [make a statement indicating that you support your proposal]

====Oppose====

====Comments====


Users will now be able to vote on your proposal, until the set deadline is reached. Remember, you are a user as well, so you can vote on your own proposal just like the others.

To support, or oppose, just insert "#{{User|[add your username here]}}" at the bottom of the section of your choice. Just don't forget to add a valid reason for your vote behind that tag if you are voting on another user's proposal. If you are voting on your own proposal, you can just say "Per my proposal".

Talk page proposals

All proposals dealing with a single article or a specific group of articles are held on the talk page of one of the articles in question. Proposals dealing with massive amounts of splits, merges or deletions across the wiki should still be held on this page.

For a list of all settled talk page proposals, see MarioWiki:Proposals/TPP archive and Category:Settled talk page proposals.

Rules

  1. All active talk page proposals must be listed below in chronological order (new proposals go at the bottom) using {{TPPDiscuss}}. Include a brief description of the proposal while also mentioning any pages affected by it, a link to the talk page housing the discussion, and the deadline. If the proposal involves a page that is not yet made, use {{fake link}} to communicate its title in the description. Linking to pages not directly involved in the talk page proposal is not recommended, as it clutters the list with unnecessary links. Place {{TPP}} under the section's header, and once the proposal is over, replace the template with {{SettledTPP}}.
  2. All rules for talk page proposals are the same as mainspace proposals (see the "How to" section above), with the exceptions made by Rules 3 and 4 as follows:
  3. Voting in talk page proposals will be open for two weeks, not one (all times GMT).
    • For example, if a proposal is added at any time on Monday, August 1, 2011, it ends two weeks later on Monday, August 15, 2011, at 23:59 GMT.
  4. The talk page proposal must pertain to the article it is posted on.
  5. When a talk page proposal passes, it should be removed from this list and included in the list under the "Unimplemented proposals" section until the proposed changes have been enacted.

List of ongoing talk page proposals

Unimplemented proposals

Proposals

Merge the Wrecking Crew and VS. Wrecking Crew phases into list articles, Axis (ended February 24, 2022)
Do not consider usage of classic recurring themes as references to the game of origin, Swallow (ended March 9, 2022)
Split Mario Kart Tour character variants into list articles, Tails777 (ended May 4, 2022)
Enforce WCAG Level AA standards to mainspace and template content, PanchamBro (ended May 29, 2022)
Change how RPG enemy infoboxes classify role, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 18, 2022)
Trim away detailed special move information for all non-Mario fighters, Koopa con Carne (ended January 30, 2023)
Classify the Just Dance series as a guest appearance, Spectrogram (ended April 27, 2023)
Establish a standard for long course listings in articles for characters/enemies/items/etc., Koopa con Carne (ended June 8, 2023)
Consider filenames as sources and create redirects, Axis (ended August 24, 2023)
Add tabbers to race/battle course articles, GuntherBB (ended November 18, 2023)
Remove elemental creatures categories from various Super Mario RPG enemies, Swallow (ended January 11, 2024)
Standardize the formatting of foreign and explanatory words and phrases in "Names in other languages" tables, Annalisa10 (ended February 7, 2024)
Trim or remove various Smash franchise-specific subcategories, Camwoodstock (ended February 25, 2024)

Talk page proposals

Split all the clothing, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 12, 2021)
Split the various reissues of Mario Bros., Doc von Schmeltwick (ended April 22, 2022)
Split machine parts, Robo-Rabbit, and flag from Super Duel Mode, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 30, 2022)
Expand source priority exception to include regional English differences, LinkTheLefty (ended January 14, 2023)
Add product IDs in game infoboxes, Windy (ended March 18, 2023)
Remove the list of Super Smash Bros. series objects, Axis (ended May 10, 2023)
Merge Start Dash with Rocket Start, Koopa con Carne (ended August 17, 2023)
Use italics for the full title of the Mario Kart 8 Deluxe – Booster Course Pass, Hewer (ended September 15, 2023)
Split Special Shot into separate articles by game, Technetium (ended September 30, 2023)
Convert the lists of episode appearances for television series characters into categories, Camwoodstock (ended November 22, 2023)
Decide which series certain Yoshi games are related to, GuntherBB (ended December 14, 2023)
Change the Super Mario 64 DS level section to include more specific character requirements, Altendo (ended December 20, 2023)
Replace "List of Game Over screens" and "'Game Over' as death" sections with a "History" section, DrippingYellow (ended December 20, 2023)
Split the Jungle Buddies from Animal Friends, DrippingYellow (ended December 22, 2023)
Make major changes to the MarioWiki:Links page, PnnyCrygr (ended January 10, 2024)
Make bestiary list pages for the Minion Quest and Bowser Jr.'s Journey modes, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended January 11, 2024)
Merge the "Johnson" running gag into one page, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended January 11, 2024)
Merge the ghost Bats and Mice from Luigi's Mansion to their respective organic counterparts from the later games, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended January 20, 2024)
Split Strobomb from Robomb, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended January 20, 2024)
Stop listing reruns of tours separately in the lists of tours in Mario Kart Tour, Hewer (ended February 23, 2024)

List of ongoing talk page proposals

  • Renaming the Red Flagpole page to Secret Goal Pole (discuss) Deadline: January 12, 2021, 23:59 GMT
  • Remove "description" from the item infobox (discuss) Deadline: January 13, 2021, 23:59 GMT

Unimplemented proposals

# Proposal User Date
1 Decide how to cover recurring events in the Mario & Sonic series BBQ Turtle (talk) July 17, 2018
2 Split Jump Block (Mario & Wario) from Note Block Alternis (talk) July 21, 2019
3 Reorganize and split Gallery:Toys and other Merchandise galleries Results May Vary (talk) July 30, 2019
4 Split all multi-items in the Mario Kart series Archivist Toadette (talk) October 12, 2019
5 Include information on Construction Zone for the rest of the Mario vs. Donkey Kong series Koopa con Carne (talk) November 24, 2019
6 Split backwards somersault info and merge it to Backflip Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) February 26, 2020
7 Create a "character/species" infobox Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) April 16, 2020
8 Split the attacks from Paper Mario: Sticker Star and Paper Mario: Color Splash Scrooge200 (talk) July 4, 2020
9 Split the enemy variants from Wario World Koopa con Carne (talk) July 11, 2020
10 Split the item lists from Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) July 12, 2020
11 Clean up Category:Undead and Category:Deceased Pokemon (talk) August 6, 2020
12 Reorganize images in levelboxes pertaining to games with remakes, remasters, etc. DarkNight (talk) September 30, 2020
13 Decide on the terminology to define tiers in Mario Kart Tour Koopa con Carne (talk) October 19, 2020
14 Create articles for minor locations in Super Mario Sunshine The Mansion (talk) October 30, 2020
15 Create an article for Cheese the Chao BBQ Turtle (talk) November 25, 2020
16 Create an article for Froggy BBQ Turtle (talk) November 25, 2020

Writing guidelines

None at the moment.

New features

None at the moment.

Removals

None at the moment.

Changes

None at the moment.

Miscellaneous

None at the moment.