MarioWiki:Proposals

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Decide where to cover Cheese the Chao
Alright, continuing with the improvement of our Mario & Sonic content, it's time for another proposal, and this time it's about deciding where we cover Cheese the Chao. Following the guidance on Coverage, the Mario & Sonic series does receive full coverage of the Sonic-related content in relation to Mario & Sonic, which does mean that Cheese needs to be covered somewhere. At the moment, the coverage of Cheese is in a bit of a weird place- he's partly covered on Cream's page, but it's very much a half-done job there- he's mentioned in the opening paragraph, which makes it seem like the page is a split between him and Cream, but after that the page is almost entirely focussed on Cream with a few places just mentioning that Cheese appears (also, the introductory sentence for him is wrong an the rest of that article goes on to contradict that). There's also a Cheese the Chao redirect, which does just lead back to Cream's page. Cheese is also partly covered on the page for the Chao species, but it's limited to just saying Cheese appears there too. And to make things a bit more complicated, although I can't remember exactly where, I know I've seen articles which talk about Cheese like he has his own article.

Apparently the idea of renaming Cream's article to include Cheese was brought up before, but the proposal failed with what seems like some weak reasoning that basically came down to "He doesn't do much and Cream is the page's main focus, we don't need to rename the page"- despite the fact he was still covered there, and the page was treated like it was about both. Also, the example used to say that articles shouldn't be named after everything in them during that proposal is no longer valid, as the Crystal Bit has since been split from the Crystal King.

At the moment, I can't list off every appearance that Cheese has in the series, as there are so many side modes and things where he could appear and I just haven't found him yet. I think he first appears in 2012, where he accompanies Cheese at times in the Wii version, and then appears with her in the story mode for the 3DS version, where they both only appear in one episode, but Cheese does have some of his own dialogue here (albeit limited to the word "Chao"). I don't think he appears at all in 2016, but he does return to accompany Cheese in 2020 (He even gets his own artwork in this game). There are also a number of references to him in the series, but I can't pick those all out right now.

I think that there are three main ways we can go about this: I've been thinking over how to get this done for a while, but I haven't been able to come up with a single answer, so I think it's time for a proposal so we can get this straight and work out the best way to get Cheese covered properly.
 * Create a new article for Cheese- Convert the existing Cheese the Chao redirect to a full article for him, and reduce the Cheese specific content on Cream's page. Given that more often than not Cream appears without Cheese, I think it would make more sense to just give Cheese his own one so that most of the article actually has some relation to him, and I think with the differentiation of things like the references there'd be enough unique information to justify it.
 * Cover on Cream's page and rename it- Expand the coverage on Cream's page to make it more in line with the pages for the WarioWare duos (Ashley and Red, Dribble and Spitz, etc.)- add full information for him to the page, expand the infobox, fill out the gallery, etc. The page would need to be renamed to go with this, likely to Cream the Rabbit and Cheese the Chao to be in-line with all of the other Sonic character pages.
 * Cover on the Chao page- Probably not the best idea, but it's worth including as there's already some stuff there, and funnily enough Cheese is currently the infobox image there. I'd probably go about that by adding a separate paragraph for Cheese for each of the games he appears in, but there might be other ways to do it.

Proposer: Deadline: November 25, 2020, 23:59 GMT

Create a new article for Cheese

 * 1) Per proposal and the points raised above.
 * 2) Hey look mom, it's my ancient proposal! Considering that Cream and Cheese aren't nearly as joined at the hip as the WarioWare duos (even Ashley's appearances without Red are pretty sporadic), this seems like the best option.
 * 3) Per all.
 * 4) Per all.

Comments
I think the Chao's name is just "Cheese", hence "CREAM THE RABBIT & CHEESE " here. If it has its own article, it should probably be "Cheese (Chao)". Although, can we have an option for covering on Cream's page and not renaming it? Ditto for Froggy. Reason being that Sega doesn't usually give them separate character profiles. Also, if the Mario & Sonic series gets "full coverage", doesn't that mean Flicky and the like should have their own article too? LinkTheLefty (talk) 14:00, November 18, 2020 (EST)
 * Alright, I'm not entirely familiar with the Sonic series so I didn't know about the name thing- I'm sure I've seen him referred to as Cheese the Chao somewhere, but I might be wrong about that. So if he's only consistently referred to as Cheese, then yeah, we can call the page that (It might need to be Cheese (character) though, looking at MarioWiki:Naming). I've tried to avoid the non-renaming option as otherwise I think we'd either end up with the messy situation that we have now, where the page is poorly balanced between the content for the two characters, or would end up becoming a misleading title, where the whole thing is clearly talking about the pair but is only named after one. And yes, I am thinking about getting something done for the animal friends, particularly as you can speak to a number of them within the Tokyo '64 in the story mode of 2020. I'd want some time to get together a list of all of them first and I'm still thinking about whether to give them individual pages or a big group one yet. I'll get to that eventually, there's still a lot of other stuff to do, but it is on my radar. BBQ Turtle (talk) 06:40, November 19, 2020 (EST)
 * Well, if "Cheese the Chao" is ever used as a full name, it's so rare that it should only belong in the infobox (Sonic New Network does that while citing...a sticker book?). Anyway, I'm more asking for a status quo option because that's the norm, not because I necessarily believe that's the right option. I'm admittedly unfamiliar with the Olympic games, so I think it's best for me to abstain for now. I imagine if Flickies and company were to share an article, it'd be based on their Wii U trophy title, Fauna [of Windy Hill Zone]? LinkTheLefty (talk) 07:56, November 19, 2020 (EST)
 * I think it's too late for me to add it now, but if this goes to a no quorum I can add it on to the next one. That could be a potential name for it, yes, but there could be some other ones floating around- There's a badge in 2012 for the "Audience" which says "Sonic's animal pals have come from the forest to cheer!", so that's another two potential names right there. It just all needs a bit more research, so it's not something to worry about until the future, but if you come across anything else it'd be helpful to know. :) BBQ Turtle (talk) 05:08, November 23, 2020 (EST)

I need to see a case that Cheese the Chao has to receive a separate article compared to the WarioWare pairing. I don't think it helps Cheese's case that the WarioWare series is granted full coverage, which didn't prevent Red from having his own page, while crossover scope is much more limited. 15:22, November 25, 2020 (EST)

Decide where to cover Froggy
Yes, this does need to be a separate proposal from the Cheese. Froggy is handled differently, as he only appears in one episode of 2012 3DS to my knowledge aside from a couple of references, but the coverage policy does mean that he needs to get some proper coverage somewhere. Froggy isn't really covered properly anywhere at the moment, and is just limited to being mentioned in relevant places, so a place to have information on the character is s good idea. I think it comes down to two options- either give him a new page entirely, or rename Big's page and cover him there. Personally, I'd lean towards giving him his own page, as most of the content on Big's would have little to no relation to Froggy, and within his appearance, Froggy does do some stuff independently from Big. The other option is to just put him on Big's page though, but it would need to be reworked to reflect the fact that it is about both of them, like the shared WarioWare articles for characters like Kat and Ana and should probably be renamed to something like "Big the Cat and Froggy" if this was to be the case. This is another thing that I've been struggling to make a decision on for a while, so I though it was time to get it to a proposal and work out where to go from there.

Proposer: Deadline: November 25, 2020, 23:59 GMT

Create a new article for Froggy

 * 1) Per proposal and the points raised above.
 * 2) Froggy? Where are you? Per my reasoning on the Cheese proposal.
 * 3) Per all.
 * 4) Per all. Froggy is definitely not like the WarioWare Duos at all.