MarioWiki:Proposals

Writing guidelines
None at the moment.

Create a page for Luigi's Mansion (series)
I am honestly surprised that this page does not exist, as I believe it once did. In short, there are three installments to this series: Luigi's Mansion, Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon, and Luigi's Mansion Arcade. Though it might seem to some that only three games won't be enough to warrant a series page, keep in mind the DK series and the Mario Baseball'' series pages. There is plenty of information for this page, as we have a main protagonist (Luigi) and many other supporting characters and reoccurring enemies such as King Boo and Boos. It only seems logical to create a page for a series within the Mario franchise that features two games for consoles and one arcade game.

Proposer: Deadline: January 9, 2018 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) Per my proposal.
 * 2) Good Idea! :P
 * 3) - A series page did exist before, but it was deleted back in 2011. That was before the arcade title, however, so I don't see a reason to not make one now.
 * 4) Per proposal.
 * 5) Per proposal. Since other similar series pages exist, I don't see an issue with creating this one.
 * 6) Per proposal.
 * 7) OH YEAH! I KNEW this was supposed to be a thing. As a person whose favorite video-game character is the man in green, Mr. Number Two, I think this proposal is just great. After all, don't we hear people talk about the Luigi's Mansion games as a series? I think we're on a roll, boys. Per proposal. This thing should have been created when Dark Moon was released.
 * 8) Per all.
 * 9) If we have articles on series with only two games, then clearly this subject merits an article. Per all.

Comments
Is there a policy page/section about what qualifies as a series and allow for a series article? -- 15:00, 2 January 2018 (EST)
 * Not finding one, but I think the unspoken rule is about three games? I remember reading that somewhere. 15:13, 2 January 2018 (EST)
 * Thought there would be so that way proposals don't need to be created. Would the admins be in favor of a policy to bypass the need for a proposal? I wouldn't know how to define the prerequisites. -- 17:38, 2 January 2018 (EST)
 * This page was previously deleted, so I understand the need for this proposal. But, imo, a policy for it doesn't seem necessary. As long as there is more than one game in the same series and a decent amount of information can be written, then proposals shouldn't be necessary either. Something can probably be added to Glossary though. 17:50, 2 January 2018 (EST)
 * Just thought of something else. Series vs. Franchise. We got both those types of pages that are similar-ish in concept. -- 23:24, 2 January 2018 (EST)

2011 was even before Dark Moon was released so I see why the original page was deleted.
 * Whoop, forgot when Dark Moon was released. That makes the original page even more pointless :P 15:19, 2 January 2018 (EST)

Lcrossmk8: I do not think you can just support this proposal just because you like Luigi. Please, look rule #4.-- 16:40, 2 January 2018 (EST)
 * I'm not supporting the proposal just because I like Luigi. I agree with all the other reasons the proposal is on here, and that's why I voted for it. 16:42, 2 January 2018 (EST)
 * You just say in your reason for voting: "As a person whose favorite video-game character is the man in green, Mr. Number Two, I think this proposal is just great." This is not a valid reason to support a proposal. Rule #4 says: "irrelevant quips or comments are just as invalid as providing no reason at all. But now, I saw you put "Per proposal." so your vote is now valid."-- 16:50, 2 January 2018 (EST)

Removals
None at the moment.

Allow the coverage of distinctly Mario aspects from guest appearances
According to Coverage, Nintendo Land is "not a crossover" and is therefore a guest appearance; since the game constitutes a guest appearance, it should only receive one page and the minigame pages (Donkey Kong's Crash Course, Luigi's Ghost Mansion, Mario Chase, and Yoshi's Fruit Cart) should be deleted, per the rules on MarioWiki:Coverage. However, why not change the rules? Instead of having these pages exist in a grey area, why not change things so that they, and any other subjects from guest appearances that are clearly baked in Mario iconography, can have articles? To be clear, this is not a proposal to give articles to every subject from a guest appearance: LeBron James and Psymon would still not have articles, but, for example, Nintendo Village might be eligible. These are subjects that use the Mario IP with Nintendo's express approval, if not because Nintendo themselves created them, and they're arguably more related to the franchise than some of the stuff that the wiki already covers. I don't see why we shouldn't allow them here.

Proposer: Deadline: January 4, 2018, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) Per proposal.
 * 2) I'm with you on this one. Sounds like a good idea to cover Mario-only elements of any non-Mario game. And plus, why even bring up LeBron James in the first place? Come on now, I don't want an article on that, because then we might have people yelling out constantly about how the stupid Warriors blew a 3-1 lead. Jesus, man, can we just not do that?
 * 3) Per proposal.
 * 4) The summary above sounds convincing. Per all.
 * 5) Policy needs an overhaul for these cases, and this is a step in the right direction.
 * 6) Per all, it leaves a gap in our coverage otherwise.
 * 7) - I honestly thought this was a crossover already. Per proposal.
 * 8) Per proposal.
 * 9) Per all.
 * 10) Per all.
 * 11) Per all. Yeah, I don't think LeBron James or Mooshroom need an article, though I think subjects such as Tetris DS Puzzle Mode are deserving of one.
 * 12) Per all.
 * 13) Per all.
 * 14) Per all.

Does Tetris DS count as a guest appearance?
Once upon a time, a proposal deemed that Tetris DS was irrelevant to the Super Mario Wiki, and should therefore be deleted... except that was four years ago, and the article still remains. Now it just sits in limbo or something, and that's not satisfying to me. To me, Tetris DS is about on par with Nintendo Land in terms of Mario content. From the six games, half of them prominently feature Mario characters and integrate them into the gameplay, especially with the Standard game's multiplayer items and the Yoshi's Cookie Puzzle game. If you say that the Mario aspect only affects the visuals and not the gameplay, and therefore shouldn't be covered here, then I'll ask why Nintendo Badge Arcade and Minecraft are covered at all, or even why Nintendo Land is covered when its line-up includes a game of tag and moving a cart around. Also, that clearly ignores the multiplayer items. Simply put, this game has more than enough Mario-related content to justify its coverage on the wiki.

Proposer: Deadline: January 4, 2018, 23:59 GMT

Yes, it is a guest appearance (and therefore, keep the page)

 * 1) Per proposal.
 * 2) I guess I will support this one, but holy smoke, are you a proposal machine or what? You keep belching these out like factory goods on the conveyor belt every day.
 * 3) Should be a no-brainer, per all.
 * 4) Per all.
 * 5) - Per proposal.
 * 6) Per proposal.
 * 7) Per proposal, to me Mario content in Tetris DS is no different from Mario content in Smash Bros.
 * 8) Per all.
 * 9) Per all.

No, it is not a guest appearance (and therefore, delete the page)

 * 1) The games mentioned besides Tetris DS are governed by a very black and white policy. I have also wanted to stir up discussion to no avail. I don't think the game is the issue. It's how we cover crossovers, which isn't satisfactory, because we end up covering non-Mario things. It's a very hard call due to the current complexity of the Mario universe intertwined with other video game universes.
 * 2) Per Wildgoosespeeder.

Comments
@Wildgoose: What are you talking about? What's so black-and-white about the policy that it completely annuls Tetris DS from having an article? 00:30, 28 December 2017 (EST)
 * Watching playthroughs of Tetris DS, NES games are used as a background theme as you play Tetris, which Super Mario Bros., Super Mario Bros. 3, Donkey Kong, and Yoshi's Cookie for some examples. This sounds like a guest appearance to me. -- 00:46, 28 December 2017 (EST)
 * Yes. That is the point of the proposal. 00:47, 28 December 2017 (EST)
 * But wanting to allow it anyways (at this time 3-1 vote to keep) means the policy is very black and white about this, but not just with Tetris DS. Policy needs to be reworked for these instances. NES Remix, Tetris & Dr. Mario, and others all have issues with policy. Not just Tetris DS. -- 00:56, 28 December 2017 (EST)
 * I think I knew where I confused myself. I want Tetris DS to be considered a cameo. I just looked at Densetsu no Starfy 3 and that makes a little more sense to cover levels where Wario makes a physical appearance. In Tetris DS, you don't interact with the themes, but in Densetsu no Starfy 3, Wario interacts with Starfy. -- 01:08, 28 December 2017 (EST)
 * And what about the multiplayer items? 10:40, 28 December 2017 (EST)
 * List of Mario references in Nintendo video games
 * List of Mario references in Nintendo video games
 * List of Mario references in Nintendo video games
 * List of Mario references in Nintendo video games
 * List of Mario references in Nintendo video games
 * List of Mario references in Nintendo video games
 * Just some examples found in List of Mario references in Nintendo video games. There's likely many more. Does that mean these games deserve their own article? -- 11:38, 28 December 2017 (EST)
 * How are they relevant to my point? 11:43, 28 December 2017 (EST)
 * I read the section about multiplayer items, and there is a level of interaction with the Tetris universe. My point was we have many games that don't have articles and there are physical appearances of Mario universe people or things in them that has influence in those universes. This supports my other point that policy is very black and white, leaving people to grasp at straws to cover either by separate article or merge contents in list articles. -- 11:50, 28 December 2017 (EST)
 * You still haven't explained how the policy is black-and-white in the first place. And frankly, what if I say that those games should have articles? What then? 11:55, 28 December 2017 (EST)
 * It's either full coverage (mainstream or crossover) or some coverage (guest appearance or cameo). I don't think this is satisfactory for crossover or guest appearance. Instead of two "modes" of coverage, we need four. Also, you have another proposal going addressing issues with this policy as well, so I think you understand somewhat of what I mean that I think policy is very black and white. -- 12:05, 28 December 2017 (EST)
 * Seriously, what are you talking about? 12:23, 28 December 2017 (EST)
 * Can you elaborate what's not clear to you? -- 12:41, 28 December 2017 (EST)
 * Go basic here: what do you mean by "black-and-white"? 12:48, 28 December 2017 (EST)
 * No grey area. The games in question don't fit the full coverage or partial coverage policy completely. -- 13:40, 28 December 2017 (EST)
 * How so? 13:57, 28 December 2017 (EST)
 * We've had multiple discussions before, like with the creation of Minecraft that I can immediately recall. -- 14:57, 28 December 2017 (EST)
 * And yet Minecraft is being covered on the wiki. What are you talking about? 15:29, 28 December 2017 (EST)
 * Yes, it was covered. I wasn't trying to outright stop its coverage. However, the current way it is being covered just doesn't feel right compared to other games. The point is just because it features Mario characters or references it doesn't mean it is a Mario game. If that were true, the List of Mario references in Nintendo video games shouldn't exist and should be split into separate articles. -- 15:38, 28 December 2017 (EST)
 * The point isn't that it's a Mario game. The point is that it has content that is relevant to the wiki. 15:56, 28 December 2017 (EST)
 * Not arguing that it has relevance. I am arguing the presentation just isn't quite right. -- 16:00, 28 December 2017 (EST)
 * What would be right for you, then? 16:02, 28 December 2017 (EST)
 * A merge to the references list or a general guest appearance article. Since guest appearance, link to the appropriate NIWA wiki article, or Wikipedia article if the game is not a Nintendo property. In the case of Tetris DS, it's a reference and not a guest appearance, although policy isn't definitive on that. -- 16:17, 28 December 2017 (EST)
 * Why shouldn't we give them individual articles? 17:01, 28 December 2017 (EST)
 * It feels like we are giving these games the same precedence as regular normal releases. -- 17:15, 28 December 2017 (EST)
 * One page and dedicated coverage of clearly Mario aspects, versus every single subject within the game getting an article. They are not the same. 17:34, 28 December 2017 (EST)

Shouldn’t this be a TPP? - 17:57, 28 December 2017 (EST)
 * Hypothetically, if Tetris DS didn't already have a page, then the proposal would have definitely gone here. I think this kind of stuff is better suited for here, anyways, as it sets a visible precedent for what future games may or may not be considered as guest appearances. Besides, my other guest appearance proposals have all been here. 18:08, 28 December 2017 (EST)