MarioWiki:Proposals

List of Talk Page Proposals

 * Merge The Big Boo (boss) with Big Boo. (Discuss) Deadline: November 9, 2015 23:59 GMT

Writing Guidelines
None at the moment.

Template:TooManyImages
Long story short, this is for galleries that are stuffed full of redundant pix that need a lot of trimming. I have two possible wordings in mind:  This has too many images. Please help by removing some unneeded images from this article. Or (since the two templates doesn't work for me): There are too many images in this article. Please help by removing some of the unnedded or useless images.

I am open to suggestions on wording and coloration.

Proposer: Deadline: November 1, 2015, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) My proposal

Oppose

 * 1) The sentence of the template is quite generic, I suspect it can lead to wrong or hasty actions that then must be reverted, especially because some images that were uploaded are way harder to obtain than, as an example, simple trivia sentences, and in some cases, such as artworks, this Wiki should possibly have all of them (of course if the same artwork is reused in different contexts, just one copy of said artwork should be here), which means that some galleries will surely have many images. If there are multiple versions of the same image, just keep the higher quality one, if there are images of the wrong subject, delete them. If you think that there are too many images of a certain kind (e.g. screenshots of a game), you should use a template that allows to specify what the problem is.

Comments
If there's too many images, why doesn't whoever's there just remove some? It's not like trying to add images, which involved hunting stuff down and uploading them, and is even easier than dealing with long Trivia sections or overly crufty prose, which both generally require effortful rewriting (e.g. some Trivia needs to be incorporated, rather than simply removed). And for galleries, the main problems are superfluous screenshots, so already, where to chop is narrowed down for folks to make it easy (shoot, maybe we could just axe those sections entirely and leave it to the game and subject articles to showcase strategic screenshots of gameplay, with only overview-type things like maps or package-deal stuff like cutscene slideshows left in the galleries). It just seems a bit lazy to make a whole template to pass the buck on such a simple issue; if someone really just wants to flag and dash, they can use anyway. Plus, if this is mainly for galleries, ideally, once we finally get rid of the everything-but-the-kitchen-sink approach to screenshots that's bloating them up for the most part, then wouldn't the temple be mostly unnecessary? Finally, even if we were gonna make this template, it should be called "Template:LessImages" and be yellow, for consistency with and  -  is completely unrelated to probelms occurring in long-established pages. -
 * So it would look more like this?

 This needs fewer images. Please help by removing some unneeded images from this article. 20:34, 25 October 2015 (EDT)

Removals
None at the moment.

Do not consider ports for an article's most recent name
At the moment, there are a few articles that have had their names changed due to rereleases, including Super Mario Bros. 3's worlds, which was put into place due to a proposal held on a single talk page, and Spiky Gloomba (to Spiked Gloomba), which was put into place after citing SMB3 as precedence (there are likely other examples, but I can't recall them at the moment). To use the Gloomba as an example, it was "Spiked" in Paper Mario, but was renamed to "Spiky" in Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door, and the article followed suite. However, with the Virtual Console release of Paper Mario, the article changed names once again. The logic behind it is that, since the re-release is technically the most recent game, the names of our articles should reflect that. I don't agree with that.

First of all, it'd be incredibly off to only apply this to names, and there are quite a few other aspects that would have to be changed, namely the general order of the games in history sections and every article's latest appearance. It's seems odd to arbitrary exclude everything but the names in our changes. Also, how surreal would it be to see an article with their first appearance listed as "Super Mario Bros. 2 (1988)" and then its latest appearance listed as "Super Mario Bros. 2 (2012)"? It presents the idea that there's a whole new game called SMB2, but it's really the exact same game with minimal differences (I'm not exaggerating). This idea of being misleading is another reason I dislike the idea: having a game carry the same name as it did twenty years ago is not a change; it's an example of preservation. If a museum was commissioning a replica of the Mona Lisa, with the intent of presenting it as it was originally depicted, would you want them to paint a giant clown nose on it? While it'd be a bit funny, it'd completely lose the intent and disappoint a large amount of people looking forward to it. With that said, preserving something is not the same thing as presenting it as something new. Attitudes at Nintendo have not changed by re-releasing an old game, and the wiki's attitude should likewise not change. It's not even as if they're a "new" game; for all intents and purposes, these games are the same games that were once available a few years ago, just for a different platform.

In the case of the Super Mario Land enemies whose names were changed in the Virtual Console, those are different to what's being discussed here. Those names were changed with the re-release itself; it's not a matter of the same name popping up again and clashing with a later game, it's a matter of the same game containing different names than it did previously. One is about staying true to the source, while the other is about a clear change in though. Basically, per what was said by me and Walkazo on the forums.

This proposal intends to revert the Lands proposal and the Gloomba move (and any other ones that may be out there), as well as set a precedent for the future.

Proposer: Deadline: October 28, 2015, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) Per proposal.
 * 2) Definitely, this makes perfect sense. I'm not sure why they were renamed back to the old ones in the first place.
 * 3) Per proposal.
 * 4) Per proposal, Especially because re-releases' modifications are kept to a minimum. The name could have been changed from one game in the series to another, but the developers didn't modify the original game for a re-release. If it was modified to a new name, then this name automatically becomes the newest.
 * 5) I never even knew this was an issue. Per all.
 * 6) Per all.
 * 7) PP.
 * 8) - Per proposal and per myself on the forums. If stuff in a a re-release was actively changed to be different from the original (like the SML names), we should update our titles accordingly - like how we'd update the body text to mention the changes between versions. However, if the differences from current names derived from subsequent games are only because the re-release is being authentic to the original, then we shouldn't use the antiquated name, like how we don't mention over and over in the body text how Goombas are the same in every port of SMB, etc. The infobox "appearance" lines are best saved for original games too, since re-releases aren't new appearances by the subjects at all, just the same old original appearances. We also don't make new History sections for re-releases unless there's major differences involved, so again, leaving the names be would be most consistent with how we handle all other aspects of re-releases.
 * 9) Per all.
 * 10) I think it's dumb to rename a recurring entity only because the predecessor the entity appeared in was released in Virtual Console or as a remake. If I'm correct into thinking this is what the proposal is about, then I agree.
 * 11) Pretty much what everyone else is saying. Per all.
 * 12) Per Walkazo.

Oppose

 * 1) Per comments below, but most importantly - there should be a clear wiki definition of a port if this is to establish a precedent just for that, since one can also technically conclude the Advance series and even All-Stars itself are already ports (the term "remake" is used rather loosely enough around here as it is, last I checked).

Comments
I think it's dumb a name from a re-release of a predecessor has replaced the sequel's name, but I'm not extremely sure about standalone games, so I'm still iffy on applying a blanket standard to disregard all ports. 16:23, 22 October 2015 (EDT)
 * Could you give an example of what you're talking about? Usually, the newer game would take precedence over the older one, so I'm not sure what it being standalone has to do with. it
 * I was thinking about something like one-off enemies in a game getting a rename in the port version. Or the lands in the proposal getting a rename in the port version. But maybe I'm not clear in this whole issue. 15:27, 23 October 2015 (EDT)
 * I think I had the Super Mario Land issue in mind, but the proposal title seems like applying a blanket standard when it really isn't. 15:35, 23 October 2015 (EDT)
 * If a change is made from the original in the port/remake/whatever, then we would reflect that in the page title/etc. (like the SML names). This is just about not reverting to old names simply because remakes were eventually released with the outdated names preserved for authenticity despite later games (or even different remakes released in the meantime, like SMA4 and SMAS) updating the names. - 16:25, 23 October 2015 (EDT)
 * So maybe the proposal's title should change a bit just for easier reference in the future? Because I think it confused me for a bit. 16:29, 23 October 2015 (EDT)
 * Honestly, this is probably the sort of thing that should be done case-by-case rather than indiscriminately across the board. The Super Mario Land enemy names on Virtual Console would be preferable to the average English-speaker over the original ones since the opportunity was taken to actually localize. However, I'd raise concerns over the other examples mentioned in this proposal: for Spiky Gloomba, Spiked Goomba (plus derivatives) would simply be the more recurring/consistent spelling overall, having so far been used in two of the Paper Mario games over the odd mid one out, so it can be easily predicted that "Spiked" will be used over "Spiky" if it makes another appearance. Regarding the Super Mario Bros. 3 Land names: 1) Pipe Land is referenced over Pipe Maze in both the North American and European versions of the Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS / Wii U Pipe trophy (and keep in mind that a few were adjusted between releases such as Larry), so the idea that they are outright ignored in modern titles solely due to preservation purposes doesn't quite work, 2) the fact of the matter is, the Land names were (and continue to be) the most common versions for more generations of Mario fans since any re-releases of All-Stars & Advance 4 are noticeably rarer than the originals, and has a more "universal" appeal over the unique names since they were used throughout a broader range of various media and supplemental materials, and 3) to go off on that - and I realize this might just be personal preference - but "Bowser's Castle (World)" and "Castle of Koopa" were always incredibly ill-fitting names, especially considering most of the stages take place outside the actual final castle and it's supposed to be applied to an entire kingdom, so it would be awkward to, say, direct The Adventures of Super Mario Bros. 3 readers to another "Bowser's Castle" article. In the end, it shouldn't really matter which names are used for the article titles as long as everything is still fully acknowledged within the article itself, but I'd argue that the "newer" names for these particular cases will most likely form a strange disconnect or confusion with certain subjects more than the current arrangement. LinkTheLefty (talk) 12:00, 25 October 2015 (EDT)

Miscellaneous
None at the moment.