MarioWiki:Proposals

A proposal section works like a discussion page: comments are brought up and replied to using indents (colons, such as : or ::::) and all edits are signed using the code.

This page observes the No-Signature Policy.

How To Rules
 * 1) If users have an idea about improving the wiki or managing its community, but feel that they need community approval before acting upon that idea, they may make a proposal about it. They must have a strong argument supporting their idea and be willing to discuss it in detail with the other users, who will then vote about whether or not they think the idea should be used. Proposals should include links to all relevant pages and Writing Guideline proposals must include a link to the draft page.
 * 2) Proposals end at the end of the day (23:59) one week after voting starts, except for Writing Guidelines and Talk Page Proposals, which run for two weeks. (All times GMT.)
 * 3) *For example, if a proposal is added at any time on Monday, August 1, 2011, the voting starts immediately and the deadline is one week later on Monday, August 8, at 23:59 GMT.
 * 4) Every vote should have a reason accompanying it. Agreeing with or seconding a previously mentioned reason given by another user is accepted.
 * 5) Users who feel that certain votes were cast in bad faith or which truly have no merit can address the votes in the Comments section. Users can ask a voter to clarify their position, point out mistakes or flaws in their arguments, or call for the outright removal of the vote if it lacks sufficient reasoning. Users may not remove or alter the content of anyone else's votes. Voters can remove or rewrite their own vote at any time, but the final decision to remove another user's vote lies solely with the administrators.
 * 6) If a user makes a vote and is subsequently blocked for any amount of time, their vote is removed. However, if the block ends before the proposal ends, then the user in question holds the right to re-cast their vote. If a proposer is blocked, their vote is removed and "(banned)" is added next to their name in the "Proposer:" line of the proposal, which runs until its deadline as normal. If the proposal passes, it falls to the supporters of the idea to enact any changes in a timely manner.
 * 7) No proposal can overturn the decision of a previous proposal that is less than 4 weeks (28 days) old.
 * 8) Any proposal that has three votes or less at deadline will automatically be listed as "NO QUORUM." The original proposer then has the option to relist said proposal to generate more discussion.
 * 9) All proposals that end up in a tie will be extended for another week.
 * 10) If a proposal has more than ten votes, it can only pass or fail by a margin of three votes. If a proposal reaches the deadline and the total number of votes for each option differ by two or less votes, the deadline will be extended for another week.
 * 11) Proposals can only be extended up to three times. If a consensus has not been reached by the fourth deadline, the proposal fails and can only be re-proposed after four weeks, at the earliest.
 * 12) All proposals are archived. The original proposer must take action accordingly if the outcome of the proposal dictates it. If it requires the help of an administrator, the proposer can ask for that help.
 * 13) Proposals can only be rewritten or deleted by their proposer within the first three days of their creation. However, proposers can request that their proposal be deleted by an administrator at any time, provided they have a valid reason for it. Please note that cancelled proposals must also be archived.
 * 14) If the administrators deem a proposal unnecessary or potentially detrimental to the upkeep of the Super Mario Wiki, they have the right to remove it at any time.
 * 15) There should not be proposals about creating articles on an underrepresented or completely absent subject, unless there is major disagreement about whether the content should be included. To organize efforts about completing articles on missing subjects, try creating a PipeProject.
 * 16) Proposals cannot be made about promotions and demotions. Users can only be promoted and demoted by the will of the administration.
 * 17) No joke proposals. Proposals are serious wiki matters and should be handled professionally. Joke proposals will be deleted on sight.

Basic Proposal and Support/Oppose Format This is an example of what your proposal must look like, if you want it to be acknowledged. If you are inexperienced or unsure how to set up this format, simply copy the following and paste it into the fitting section. Then replace the [subject] - variables with information to customize your proposal, so it says what you wish. If you insert the information, be sure to replace the whole variable including the squared brackets, so "[insert info here]" becomes "This is the inserted information", not "[This is the inserted information]". Proposals presenting multiple alternative courses of action can have more than two voting options, but what each voting section is supporting must be clearly defined. - ===[insert a title for your Proposal here]=== [describe what issue this Proposal is about and what changes you think should be made to improve how the Wiki handles that issue]

Proposer: Deadline: [insert a deadline here, 7 days after the proposal was created, at 23:59 GMT. (14 days for Talk Page Proposals.)]

====Support====
 * 1) [make a statement indicating that you support your proposal]

====Oppose====

====Comments==== - Users will now be able to vote on your Proposal, until the set deadline is reached. Remember, you are a user as well, so you can vote on your own Proposal just like the others.

To support, or oppose, just insert " # at the bottom of the section of your choice. Just don't forget to add a valid reason for your vote behind that tag if you are voting on another user's Proposal. If you are voting on your own Proposal, you can just say "Per my Proposal".

Talk Page Proposals All proposals dealing with a single article or a specific group of articles are held on the talk page of one of the articles in question. Proposals dealing with massive amounts of splits, merges or deletions across the Wiki should still be held on this page.


 * For a list of all settled Talk Page Proposals, see here.

Rules
 * 1) All active talk page proposals must be listed below in chronological order (new proposals go at the bottom). All pages affected must be mentioned in the brief description, with the talk page housing the discussion linked to directly via "". If the proposal involved a page that is not yet made, use to communicate its title. The Deadline must also be included in the entry. Linking to pages not directly involved in the talk page proposal is not recommended, as it clutters the list with unnecessary links. Place  under the heading.
 * 2) All rules for talk page proposals are the same as mainspace proposals (see the "How To" section above), with the exceptions made by Rules 3 and 4 as follows:
 * 3) Voting in talk page proposals will be open for two weeks, not one. (All times GMT.)
 * 4) *For example, if a proposal is added at any time on Monday, August 1, 2011, it ends two weeks later on Monday, August 15, 2011, at 23:59 GMT.
 * 5) Talk page proposals may be closed by the proposer at any time if both the support and the oppose sides each have fewer than five votes.
 * 6) The talk page proposal must pertain to the article it is posted on.

List of Talk Page Proposals

 * Merge Bulborb to Distant Planet. (Discuss) Deadline: April 14, 2012, 23:59 GMT
 * Split Jumping Pumpkin Plant from Jumping Piranha Plant. (Discuss) Deadline: April 26, 2012, 23:59 GMT
 * Split Star Coin Sign from Star Coin. (Discuss) Deadline: April 26, 2012, 23:59 GMT
 * Delete The Legend of Zelda. (Discuss) Deadline: April 27, 2012, 23:59 GMT

Creating Separate Level Pages in Super Mario Platformers, and Reworking Use of World Pages

 * ''Draft: User:Bwf8398/Draft

Since the creation of this site, users have been told that if a level has a name, such as Awesome, it gets its own article, but if the level is a number, such as World 2-4, then it does not. Currently, World articles are being used to house information about 6 or 7 different levels, in places such as World 3 (New Super Mario Bros. Wii). If the levels had names, they would most certainly be given separate articles, and the idea that the entire position and most of the writing quality of a level article is based on its name is absurd. People say that it is because it can be hard to find a specific level, such as world 2-4, when there are multiple levels under that name, but the current system is no better! Users have to find World Articles instead, and there are even more articles about World 2 than there would be about something like World 2-4. It is much better to have many short to medium length articles that use infoboxes to be easier to understand than to create long, useless world articles, where information about the levels are basically non-existent.

People say that inconsistency is a bad thing, and this is another case of it. The fact that some games have their own level articles, while others are instead lumped together in world articles is very confusing to someone not familiar with the site. I remember spending a long time trying to find an article for World 9-6 in NSMBW before I was on the site, because I thought that the description on the world page was just an overview, and that the actual article was elsewhere.

Though in theory, it is true that articles will be the same length regardless of if they're in a World Article or a Level Article, this is not true in practice. The truth is that there are several paragraphs in a well-written level article at least, and writing quality suffers severely in the level articles. The reason is that the page is already so long, and seems to have so much information that users do not feel it necessary to add more. However, it becomes a problem when articles turn out to be this short: ''This is the only level that features Huckit Crabs. There are also a lot of Urchins and Mega Urchins.'' From World 4-3 (NSMBW) This gives no information about the level, just that three enemies appear in it. Compare that to articles such as this, from Super Mario World, or Bramble Scramble, which attained FA status, and you realize how much having its own article affects if people actually work on it.

Naming
Articles should be named as "Level name (game it's from)". For example, names should be like World 2-4 (New Super Mario Bros. Wii) or World 1-3 (Super Mario Bros. 2), and redirect for all abbreviations (e.g. World 2-4 (NSMBW)). For levels where the second number is a picture, name them as World 3-Fort or World 6-Airship. Disambiguation pages will also have to be created, but there are so many of these already for world articles that it won't increase the total that much.

Components of an Article
Many users oppose this, claiming that this would just create stubs. However, these articles will certainly be longer than things like the minigame articles, such as this, if written correctly. In each platformer article, there should be:
 * An infobox, containing a picture sized at 260 px. There is already an infobox available for New Super Mario Bros. Wii, which could probably be recycled for other games, such as Super Mario 3-D Land.
 * A short introduction, describing the setting of the level, any unique characteristics the level has, etc.
 * One section for each room in the level. A room is defined as a continuous sections of a level, such as the beginning of a level to the first Warp Pipe. If the screen has to redraw, then the player has entered a different room. Rooms which must be gone through in order to complete the level should be called "Main Room (Number)", and optional rooms, such as those that only contain 1-Up Mushrooms or Star Coins, should be labeled as "Secret Room (Number)", where the numbering is based on how early on they appear in the level.
 * One section containing a list of all enemies in the level, such as in the Super Mario Galaxy 2 levels.
 * One section briefly describing position in world; what levels it unlocks, and what levels are prerequisites to play this.
 * One section describing any Hint Movies for the level, if applicable
 * One section for trivia
 * If available, a level map, such as what is currently featured here.
 * Description of Boss Battle (Fort and Castle levels only)

Components of a Room Section

 * Brief description of setting, if changed (e.g. grassland to underground)
 * Any Star Coins or 1-Up Mushrooms in it
 * Hazards: Enemies, Pits, Scrolling Camera
 * For main rooms, any rooms it leads to.
 * For secret rooms, what room leads to them.

Using Template:Main
The other main complaint users have as that this would require a lot of extra clicking, and navigation. To counter-act this, I propose that we write brief descriptions of each level in the world article, and then link these to the main article. That way, the world articles could focus more on the world itself, rather than merely being a collection of disjointed information about different levels. This could be used to give a short summary of the level, so that readers can distinguish and select the level they want, without going to over-the-top detail.

Navigation Template
To make navigation even easier, I propose creating a navigation template for the levels in each game. Similar ones exist for things like "Levels in DKC", and it would make navigation between levels and worlds even easier, as well as streamline it.

Though this will require a lot of work, it will make the information many times easier to understand, and improve the quality of writing on all Super Mario Platformer levels greatly. Please consider carefully, and post any questions in the comments. Example articles are included in the draft.

Proposer: Deadline: April 12, 2012, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) - Per the proposal.
 * 2) - What is special about level names? I consider each level equally important, as all of them are necessary to complete the game. There is next to no information about the "non-named" levels, even though technically they do have names, (1-1, 2-8, ect.) and there is a lot of information on the "named" levels.
 * 3) We need to have consistency. Levels with names shouldn't be given different treatment
 * 4) - Per Arceus79

Oppose

 * 1) Per the arguments in ever other proposal that deals with this matter
 * 2) From a navigational standpoint, it makes more sense to have all of the levels in one article (e.g. by world) rather than separate articles on the levels.
 * 3) Proposal passes = possible load of new stubs. No.
 * 4) – Per Raven Effect.
 * 5) - I stand by what I said on all those Proposals that Raven Effect linked to: everything should be in world pages, regardless of whether they have names or not. Having all the info on world pages rather than separate level pages streamlines navigation, and just because the descriptions are all in one central place doesn't mean they have to be short - on the contrary, long world levels should be striven for. And, at the same time, not feeling pressured to write an entire article will help avoid unnecessary fluff from being added to the level coverage: rambling walkthroughs are for FAQs, not us, and "padding" sections should be avoided too (Each room getting its own speculatively-named section? An entire section devoted to where a level occurs when one line in the intro could cover it? Officially-discouraged Trivia sections? Sorry, but none of these are a good idea). Not everything needs separate pages: what matters is using the best method to deal with a given subject. For example, Rainbow Road contains plenty of individual courses, yet they all have infoboxes, galleries and nice big descriptions, and if we could treat levels the same way, that would be ideal as far as I'm concerned.
 * 6) - Per all.
 * 7) - Per Walkazo. Also, I don't really think that any levels, even ones with names, should get their own articles.
 * 8) - Per Super Famicom 64, As somebody who does wiki maintenance I think That Extra Stubs are Not Needed.

Comments
Please be more specific Raven Effect. You are not giving a reason as much as a redirection to proposals on different issues, and this explains nothing to people who haven't extensively read other proposals that may be similar.

Thank you for the links, but please point out one thing in there that isn't covered here. I have studied them carefully and taken measures to counteract such problems. This won't create inconsistency, which was the main point in number 5, because it will be for all platforming game. Proposal 4 merged them because they were stubs that were badly written, which I have explained how to avoid in the proposal. Proposal 3 is similar to what Mario4ever said- it would be combatted by leaving enough info on the page so that users can distinguish between levels, and if a user wanted to read a level more extensively, it's just one click. Proposal 2 was similar to point 3- users said the info would be harder to reach, which is combatted by main article template. And Proposal 1 was incoherent, since the user seemed to want to merge every World 1-1 into one article, which is irrelevant to my proposal. None of the points in those aren't covered in the proposal

@Mario4ever: That's what the use of Template:Main is all about- there will still be info, but much more will be presented in the actual article. They will all still be in one place, and it will be easy to access.


 * We do have articles for galaxies for SMG 'n' SMG2, but they don't count as levels, and if users search for example World 3 (Super Mario Bros. 3) in search for level information, they won't find it.

@Super Famicom 64 This would not mean that we would have stub articles if they are written correctly

Sorry if I'm going to go mad but MOST OF THE SMW LEVEL ARTICLES ARE NOT STUBS AND THEY ARE THE SAME LEGTH AS NSMBW. Everything needs an article.
 * Wow, stay easy, stay easy. @Raven Effect – I did not mean all articles that are small and have all possible information are instantly marked as new stubs.
 * @New Super Yoshi: Why don't you help out and support the proposal then?

I still have not seen one thing in the links that is not covered in the proposal. @Super Famicom 64, did you not read my entire 'What goes in an article' guideline? I even created a sample article of a level with only one room, which is the shortest level there will be. People are ignoring all of my work in creating guidelines to prevent the problems that they are pointing out. The only opposing argument with merit is that of Mario4ever. I call for the removal of the inaccurate arguments made by Super Famicom 64, Raven Effect, and those who referenced their reasoning. I mean no disrespect to any user in this, but I am merely utilizing rule 4. And even if there is one flaw, which I would be willing to concede to, the articles right now are completely useless! Though my system may not be completely perfect, surely it is much better than the current one! Bwf8398
 * Why would you remove valid votes just because you call for a guideline doesn't mean people will follow it. Also my vote is completely valid because I pered 5 proposals which all shot down this idea

And as I pointed out in my previous comment, none of the previous proposals you 'pered' are relevant to the current proposal or are fixed under the guidelines. I mean no disrespect to any user whose vote I call for a removal of, I just do not think that there vote is fair. When I said that, I was mostly speaking to the stub person. I apologize for any offense taken. Bwf8398
 * Well IMO Super Famicom 64 is invalid he sites the misinformed opinion that this will make loads of stubs which doesn't make any sense that level articles can be very well written but every other vote is invalid
 * I didn't mean every level article being marked instantly as new stub. Now, "Proposal passes = possible load of new stubs."
 * If people follow the guidelines, there will be no new stubs. Bwf8398
 * Now it's you that you have misunderstood: I said "possible", not "guaranteed".

I'm sorry, but could you give me two reasons from the link that are against the proposal? I could make changes to adhere to something I had overlooked because it has been fewer than three days if you just tell me how. Bwf8398

@Walkazo, I think you misunderstood some things. The description of a setting will be one line because that is a component of what goes in the introduction. It will be only one line. And in my opinion, naming them after numbers is better than what they do for the SMG and SMG 2 planets, where they're all subjectively named. How is this any different than those? They would not be padding sections, they would be a better organization method than a long clump of text, which most users generally avoid. I only included a trivia section so that people wouldn't put the wrong thing in there, such as where it is in the world. If you're against splitting, fine, but we desperately need new guidelines, so vote for the third section. Bwf8398

Per requests, I have included a section on Navigation Templates. I would be perfectly willing to make them. Bwf8398

@ Walkazo - Rainbow Road all share a name, and are not levels, they are courses. World 1-1 doesn't share a name with World 1-2 or World 1-Castle.

Important: If you agree with the guidelines, but want to keep the articles merged in world articles, vote for the third category. Bwf8398


 * I figured those sections would be paltry, and the fact that they're supposed to be one-liners just emphasizes that it's not a good idea. One-liner sections are almost always completely unnecessary: they make the page look fragmented and skeletal, and it'd be better to keep that info in the intro (or even put it in an infobox). I think the SMG galaxies are handled poorly too: I'd rather get rid of all the "planet" sections altogether and only have the missions (and I've said as much in past proposals). Long clumps of text are bad, but level overviews can be broken down into a manageable number of reasonably-sized paragraphs without needing sections: here's an example (done as an example for this discussion). Furthermore, merging the levels will create an even greater impetus to avoid long walkthroughs like that page's original incarnation (single pages being swollen like that is tolerable to some, but an entire world's worth of walkthroughs would be much harder to ignore). And while I do agree that new guidelines are needed, I don't agree with the ones in this proposal, and they'd work even worse for merged levels (the extra sections would clutter up the merged worlds way too much), so I'm afraid I can't use the third option. (Plus, the third option sorta waters down the opposition to splitting, so those that do want things to stay merged would be wiser to keep their votes pooled...) I am fully aware that levels =/= courses, and "same name" =/= "same world", but pages merging courses together is still comparable to pages merging levels together, and I stand by my use of Rainbow Road as an example of how merging multiple things into one overarching page can be done well. -


 * We are somewhat in agreement then. Just to clarify, the one-liner you were referring to is just one line in the section before the table of contents, not a section designed to have one line. The problem is, there need to be some sort of guidelines to clarify which section is which. I suppose that we could take out the title components (e.g. Main Room 2) and simply divide into paragraphs. The problem is that my solution really does require worlds being split, like you said, or else the world pages would be cluttered. I'm still not convinced that using Template:Main wouldn't fix that, but the thing I fear is what you said. Users, afraid of making stubs, post as much information as they can, lots of it irrelevant or repeated. I agree that the way BLIZZARD!!! is used is good, but as a community, it's too inconsistent to have some articles in world pages and some in separate articles. We need it one way or the other, and these guidelines fit with articles being split. If someone wants to counter-propose a way for merged articles, then both ways could be used, but again, this creates further inconsistency if the level articles follow different guidelines based on their name. However, once you get that far, you could argue that minigame and microgame articles of the same type should be merged, because it doesn't make sense to have longer level articles merged and keep these semi-stubs split. What I'm trying to say is that, one way or another, the level articles need to be uniform, and it just comes down to personal preference, as to if you prefer them merged or split. These guidelines would only work if articles were split. Bwf8398
 * Ah okay, but my vote was talking about the "section briefly describing position in world; what levels it unlocks, and what levels are prerequisites to play this" (and then I thought you were using "description of the setting" as another way to say "description of the position within the world"). That may not be a one-liner, but I still feel like it'd a be pointlessly short section. Short articles are not "semi-stubs": "stubs" are articles missing info, and short yet complete articles aren't "stubs" in any way. Minigames all have unique controls, gameplay, flavour text, ending and opening sequences and non-English names, but I'll admit that microgames have far less going for them and probably could be merged quite handily. -
 * I agree with you two with a new way of organization. I think that by working together we might be able to create another guidelines that fit if the articles are split. The current format that we have could probably be altered to allow us to use it on merged articles. However, as previously stated, this would create inconsistency between level articles. I am also afraid of users adding a lot of pointless information and having the article required to be cleaned up. There isn't any way that we could stop this as far as I know. I see your point of your comparison to Rainbow Road, and I agree with your point there as well, now that I understand your thinking.

@ Hippihippi and Super Famicom 64 - Even named levels are stubs. Look at Piranha Grove and Lots O'Fish from Yoshi's Story. These are both stubs, and yet have names.
 * Not all levels. These yet have a length reaching other levels.

New Features
None at the moment.

Removals
None at the moment.

Changes
None at the moment.

Miscellaneous
None at the moment.