MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/39

Change the MarioWiki:Signature rules
DON'T CHANGE 1-14


 * See: Draft

I'm proposing a change to the current Signature policy, the changes help reading and reduce the distracting signature does. The following are the rules that got changed, all other rules are unchanged..

First of any thing: Reduce the height of the signatures, The current signature is awfully very tall (See this for example: User:Dashbot/Sandbox). I'm proposing this for multiple reasons, the strongest reason is that signatures higher than 20px in height disrupt the normal spacing between rows of text. Adding ugly unnecessary spacing. This applies for text and images, thus you cannot use any html tags that increase the text size, including but not limited to,   and. The second reason I'm proposing this is that the bigger the signature is, the much more it would be disruptive catching the eye out of the message itself.

Second: You want to use image, as you wish.. but don't use mainspace images, simple! Just use any external or any personal image. That is because the unnecessary linking in the file page.

Third: Use whichever font you want, as long as it is not higher than normal font. It must be easily readable, also.

Fourth: A minor change, you are now required to link to your talk page, instead of requiring you to link to your userpage. 98% of the time I click on a signature is to visit the talk page. You still can have links to your userpage, contributions, etc

Fifth: Another minor change, You are no longer allowed to link to real articles directly.. Most of you guys are already not doing that, just adding that for the record. If you really must link to a real article, use an external link.

Sixth: No External Links such as advertising or any other websites are allowed, Use your userpage for such things. Like the current system, you are allowed for maximum of five word links.

Last and most importantly: Don't make your signature very disruptive.

You can use disruptive, long, anything signature as raw code in other user's talk pages, ONLY if they say okay. If this passes, there will be a week-to-month time until get issued.

Proposer: Deadline: April 5, 2014, 23:59 GMT.

Support

 * 1) We are an encyclopedia, we don't host fancy signatures. Signature should only be used for personality identifications, However, you can still have some good designs, if you adhere to those rules.

Oppose

 * 1) I'm fine with everything except the height rule; it seems okay as it is and you would hardly be able to see the pictures of Rosalina in my signature if you made the height requirement tighter.
 * 2) I don't think this would be great, many people will receive a sigfix warning. Per Epic Rosalina.
 * 3) I think the rules are fine the way they are.
 * 4) - While I am somewhat irritated by how spacing gets screwed up by sigs, I just shrug it off as something that can't be helped. Making images (and text) no taller than 12pt font is too draconian, and given how long the old dimensions have been established for, it's a bit late to try and change them now. Besides, we're an encyclopedia: messy talk pages aren't the end of the world as long as the mainspace and policy pages are solid. And on that note, the proposed MW:SIG draft is way too bulky; even if some things get changed to the policy down the road, the page should stay nice and compact like it is now.
 * 5) Awful. The rules are good as they are. Also, why not use mainspace images?
 * 6) Per Why Bother.
 * 7) Per all, it would be a hassle to get everyone to fix their signatures quickly.
 * 8) I strongly disagree with the second rule. I like the appearance of my signature very much, and I don't want to waste potential personal image slots and possible go over it just because of that rule. And using external links is not the best idea because you can't resize them. In all, this proposal creates more problems than it solves, I don't really hate the spacing and such. I just kind of ignore it.
 * 9) I think the current rules are fine and I don't see any problems with the spacing.
 * 10) I personally thought they were too strict as they are at one point. Per all.
 * 11) This crap is WAYYY freaking stringent for my tastes. Per all.
 * 12) No no no, absolutely not. There's no reason we can't have these. Per all.
 * 13) &mdash; Per Ghost Jam's comments and Walkazo's vote. The overall impact of this proposal is too extensive and the current policy page is neater and concise. While some of the individual ideas might have merit, they should be discussed in the Wiki Collaborations board on the forum so that there is more time to make them into workable policies.
 * 14) Per Super Mario Bros.

Comments
I agree with parts, but I see no reason for why mainspace images can't be used.

I agree that our current signature policy could probably stand a to be reviewed in some parts, and I do like some of your suggestions. However, this isn't like moving an article or banning something everyone is sick of, this is a site wide policy that a large section of our userbase takes advantage of. I feel that the proposals section is the wrong venue for this, you're not going to get the level of discussion really needed for a change of this scale here. More likely, it's going to fail because it only has a week get it's point across (and this is a fairly involved point) and proposals function less like discussions and more like "yes or no" affairs. My suggestion? Move this to the General Discussion forums (perhaps even the Wiki Collaborations sub-forum), get a discussion rolling. Once it's been narrowed down what people like, don't like and the compromises therein, bring it back to proposals as "yes or no" type of thing. --
 * Actually, writing guideline proposals last for two weeks, however, seeing as they can only be rewritten within the first three days and there are probably a few points that need to be ironed out and as Ghost Jam said the discussion for that probably wouldn't happen within that timeframe it would probably be best to discuss then propose.
 * Even at two weeks, I'd put money on this snowballing to the "nope" side.

I don't see why we can't use Mainspace Images, i don't see anything wrong with them.
 * Look at the file usage for File:Booboo.gif, you can still normally use an external link by using something like  http://www.mariowiki.com/images/a/ad/Booboo.gif -- 04:59, 22 March 2014 (EDT)

@Ghost Jam: That's a pretty good idea, I think.. When this proposal reaches the deadline, We will have four weeks to discuss and settle this.. @Epic Rosalina: If you used another image, maybe this, this, if cropped, or this. It would appear better. @Walkazo: The draft can be changed anytime. While it can be too draconian as you said, the talk pages are pretty disrupting, catching my eye out of the main message. The spacing looks ugly, I can't just throw this idea out myself.
 * -- 04:59, 22 March 2014 (EDT)

Pie for Everyone (revisit)
VETOED BY THE ADMINISTRATORS Nah, too much trouble. If you want pie, make it yourself. Any flavour you want: go crazy, it's your pie. Or, if you want cake, make that instead - we won't stop you. And if you don't want pie or cake, then that's fine too. Freedom is delicious, and this way, everyone wins.

Roughly seven years ago, I came to this very proposal page with an idea. Well, a hope, really. A hope for a better tomorrow. A hope for a more complete wiki. A hope for a happier editor. A hope....for pie.

Now, the idea was (and still is) simple. Basically, a pie button would be coded into the top bar that would send a signal to one of our sysops (the original proposal had Wayoshi being the baker of these pies, but I feel that we have sufficiently talented staff now that the work can be evenly divided with no issues), who would then prepare and deliver a piece of warm pie.

As one might expect, there were issues with this idea. Some people liked it (in fact, the proposal passed 12 to 10), others didn't (I recall at least one administrator at the time having a bit of a fit over the whole thing). And I understand. Change is a hard thing to swallow sometimes (unlike pie) and we are a bit of an argumentative bunch. Not to mention that there are some legitimate concerns with this plan. It'll be hard to code, hard to coordinate and could get fairly expensive fairly quickly. On the other hand, if executed with the level of precision and expertise we've developed over the last seven years, I believe that it's well within our current abilities. In fact, this may be something we can eventually take to NIWA and help other wikis grow. So, I bring this proposal back here today because we are a much different MarioWiki than in 2007. We've grown, in more ways than one and I think it's time to reconsider.

The actual division of labor of the idea will be discussed among the administrative staff come the passing of the proposal, but the basics read as follows:


 * A single editor may only make use of the pie button once every 72 hours, due to time constraints on part of the administrative staff.
 * Each piece of pie will cost $3 American. This is to cover basic delivery services. This price may need to be adjusted as the project fleshes itself out.
 * Third point to help make proposal look less like I just suddenly decided to do it at 3am and am basically bull$*@!ing it as I go.
 * Flavors of pie can be decided upon (via community input) at a later date, but the current plans are for cherry, blueberry, freedom and Randy Savage.

I encourage discussion and am more than willing to answer any design related questions the community might have. All I ask is that we keep it civil and work towards a better, pie filled tomorrow.

Proposer: Deadline: April 8, 2014, 23:59 GMT

Delicious Pie

 * 1) as the proposer.
 * 2) IT'S PIE DAY, PIE DAY, GOTTA GET DOWN ON PIE DAY.
 * 3) I'd per YoshiKong but due to an intense hatred of that song I'll per the proposal.
 * 4) &mdash; Ghost Jam has clearly come up with a workable system that will be extremely beneficial to the community. My only concern is where we will get the money to start the program, but I assume we can either borrow some from the MarioWiki's ad revenue or take out a loan. The Super Mario Wiki has always prided itself on being one of the premier Mario resources on the Internet, and implementing this project will solidify our status once and for all. The "Pie for Everyone" feature will increase editor productivity and community morale, (eventually) increase the Super Mario Wiki's revenue, and allow us to expand our appeal. I urge everybody that cares for the future success of the wiki to support this proposal.
 * 5) Let them eat pie.
 * 6) I support because I feel this will bring Randomyoshi back.
 * 7) Pie is a great idea, we shouldn't keep the users from their pie. Pie for everyone!
 * 8) - I have regretted opposing the first pie proposal every day of my life. Never again. Pie for everyone, forever!
 * 9) - Pie is superior to all other desserts.
 * 10) PIEPIEPIEPIEPIEPIEPIEPIEIPEIPIEIPIE
 * 11) Give me pie or give me death.
 * 12) I retired a while ago, then I heard the the pie button was returning... PIE FORE EVRYONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
 * 13) You convinced me SMB. BUT IT MUST BE CHOCOLATE PIE, OR I WONT HAVE ANY.
 * 14) Let them eat pie.
 * 15) Pie will keep productivity up, and people can edit longer without having to worry about fainting from hunger. Plus it's pie. What more could you ask for?
 * 16) I do have a particular craving for chocolate cream pie...
 * 17) - The flaws of the original proposal have been vastly improved upon. This will definitely bring both a greater sense of democracy and also a greater sense of echantment with the MarioWiki administrative staff.
 * 18) I. Think a pie dilevery service would be yummy and delicious!!!
 * 19) Per all, pie for all.

No Pie for You

 * 1) - No delicious fruit pie = no per.
 * 2) If the members of the administration are responsible for making and delivering the pies, then the flavors of pie to be offered should be determined via an administrative consensus and not via community input. The only way I can see that changing is if we accept minimum monetary donations of $20 for every pie flavor that is not currently offered.
 * 3) Cake is better.
 * 4) Per Mario!
 * 5) Pie gives me indigestion
 * 6) Per Mario and Glowsquid-o.
 * 7) Don't like pie,
 * 8) I didn't have pie for my birthday on 5 March, I had CAKE! I WANT CAKE! I WANT CAKE!
 * 9) Per all.
 * 10) I've never eated pie *-*
 * 11) Per Mario, chocolate cake FTW.

Comments
Additionally, as this has proven to be something of a hot button issue, I'm further suggesting that, should this proposal fail, the overturn rule (point #7) be extended for this topic alone from four weeks to a full year. That will basically give everyone a year to discuss and then reconvene on April 1st. --

I think there should be a rota for which admin delivers the pies.
 * Definitely workable. --

@Glowsquid The proposed list of flavors includes a few fruits. However, if you're suggesting we replace baked pies with those little packaged fruit pies.....that would certainly be cheaper and easier to deliver, but I'm not sure how the community would react to that. Anyone else have an opinion? --
 * It depends if you use real fruits or not. 13:34, 1 April 2014 (EDT)
 * I'll support if you can hook everyone up with a free sample first. -- 13:49, 1 April 2014 (EDT)
 * Free samples require $2 for shipping and handling.
 * This is a scam! 14:11, 1 April 2014 (EDT)
 * The admin team does scam, we are 100% truthful the entire time.
 * So wait, why is everyone trusting scammers to bake the pies? How do we know they won't poison them or something? -- 14:53, 1 April 2014 (EDT)
 * Oops, looks my random miss out a word thing happened again :/. Besides why we would poison you?
 * Hey, if you guys want to handle the production and distribution of pies, be our guests, though I should mention that transferring responsibility also incurs a monetary fee. It's less work for us.
 * Is this proposal an April Fool's Joke? Today is April 1st and I don't find it likely to order pie from a wiki. In fact, pies in the face have been used a lot in comedy. SeanWheeler (talk) 17:35, 1 April 2014 (EDT)
 * It'd be passing a lot better if it was an April Fool's joke.

@YK It's do a hop. 17:43, 1 April 2014 (EDT)


 * Aye? Dafaq you talkin bout Willis?! 07:17, 2 April 2014 (EDT)

Now how long will this take until it moves to the BJAODN?
 * Aw, don't ruin the fun! 09:17, 2 April 2014 (EDT)

YoshiKong, why have you voted twice?
 * Because he wants to! There's no rule against it, after all. 14:33, 2 April 2014 (EDT)
 * Rules, schmoolz, I don't give a hoot about 'em. 14:36, 2 April 2014 (EDT)
 * Really, I don't either. Sometimes. 08:30, 3 April 2014 (EDT)

@Bluetoad63: Forget the cake: the cake is a lie. 12:48, 5 April 2014 (EDT)
 * It's still delicious just thinking about it. :) 14:28, 5 April 2014 (EDT)
 * That's what I'm counting on. 15:34, 5 April 2014 (EDT)
 * But i like cake! WHAAAA-*shot* 11:13, 8 April 2014 (EDT)

To address opposing votes, I hereby suggest the Vommack Amendment to the Pie for Everyone Act: Vommack (talk) 17:51, 5 April 2014 (EDT)
 * Any flavor of pie may be ordered; however, pies not currently listed as an available pie will be considered a "custom pie" and extra money will be charged, depending on availability of supplies, etc.
 * The Administrator Bakery will be expanded to allow for the baking of cakes. All restrictions relating to ordering of pies extends to the ordering of cakes. Cake may or may not be a lie.
 * Does it adhere to current government regulations? 17:52, 5 April 2014 (EDT)
 * Which regulations are you referring to? Vommack (talk) 17:54, 5 April 2014 (EDT)
 * Wiki Manual, Section B, Paragraph 19, Subheader 4. 11:14, 8 April 2014 (EDT)
 * Why yes, yes it does, Mr. Toad.--Vommack (talk) 15:27, 8 April 2014 (EDT)

I am so confused. What do you mean by administrators delivering pie? This may sound stupid, but I don't really understand. Could someone please explain? 20:05, 8 April 2014 (EDT)
 * Explanation: seven days ago was April 1, seven years ago was fun times, and pie is awesome. -

Create an "Regional Differences" Page
SECTIONS ONLY 1-6

As far as I know, some games series like Mario Party, Mario Kart and sports spin-offs have some/lots of regional differences in all the world. An example is myself: Ashley in Japan is 8, but in USA she is 15. Also, the majority of the Mario games released on hand-held consoles have differences. Sawaru Meifo in Wario (WarioWare Touched!) has LOTS of differences between all the releases: The american one is totally different from the Japanese's one. I suggest to these pages be called like: List of (name of the game) Regional differences.

Proposer: Deadline: April 13, 2014, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) Per proposal

Oppose

 * 1) Per Walkazo in the comments.
 * 2) Per Walkazo.
 * 3) Per Walkazo.
 * 4) Per all.
 * 5) - Per me (in the comments). Make the pages someday, but keep the priority on getting the info down in the sections for now.
 * 6) Per Walkazo.

Comments
I honestly think it would be better if we merged it with the article itself, unless the regional differences is very substantial or something. 13:16, 6 April 2014 (EDT)
 * We already have a policy for version differences, including regional differences (a broader scope is better, since more info can be covered). The policy only talks about the creation of sections for now; I suppose it could be expanded to have another class of ex-subpages, but perhaps not until we have more information of the sort built up: right now, I feel like we'd only have a few pages, and most of them would be small. -
 * Yes. Games that has lots of differences (e.i WarioWare games) should have an subpage like Quotes. Games with only a few of differences (e.i Super Princess Peach) should have only a section. What about?
 * Eventually, that would be ideal, but again, I feel like we should try to build up the information first and then start making subpages, rather than adding provisions for a whole new subpage class now, only for it to be sparsely populated for the longest time. You cite the WarioWare series as having tonnes of differences, but none of those pages even have sections yet. It would be best to make a Wiki Collab to try and generate more interest in making sections, with the goal being to make enough coverage to move a handful of those sections onto subpages. -

Create separate articles for Standard Kart and Standard Bike
CREATE 10-0

Looking back at my last proposal of splitting the Pipe Frame and Gold Standard from Kart, I was thinking we should give the Standard Karts and Standard Bike their own articles. The Kart and Bike articles can cover Karts and Bikes as a whole. This is how I think it can be laid out: I feel this should be done for consistency sakes, as all other karts have their own article and the Standards should be no different. I know most of the info is just covered in Kart and Bike, but those can cover the vehicles as a whole instead.
 * The Standard Kart page would cover the information and stats of the Standard Karts from Mario Kart DS, Mario Kart Wii, Mario Kart 7 and the upcoming Mario Kart 8.
 * The Kart page can simply cover Karts as a whole, not necessarily the stats of each one. We can also add pictures of karts from the various MK titles much like how the Double Dash!! section does.
 * The Standard Bike page would, like the Standard Kart, list the stats of said bikes from Mario Kart Wii and Mario Kart 8 while the Bike article covers bikes as a whole, such as showing pictures of each bike from Mario Kart Wii and bike part from Mario Kart 8.

Proposer: Deadline: April 14, 2014, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) Per me
 * 2) Per...you? (Tails777)
 * 3) The standards are their own parts/karts, so they should get a different article rather than being lumped into the generic kart article.
 * 4) They are 2 different vehicles; per all.
 * 5) Per proposal
 * 6) Per All.
 * 7) The term "Kart" is a umbrella term for all the 4-wheeled, car-like vehicles used in Mario Kart games. It shouldn't exclusively mean the go-karts. Sure, the article should definitely cover the karts used in the first few Mario Kart games, but it should stop covering just the go-kart-like karts post Mario Kart Double Dash. This applies to "bike" as well. The term "Bike" should apply to ALL bikes, not just the Standard Bikes.
 * 8) Having seen an example of the proposed end result, per Tails777.
 * 9) Per all.
 * 10) - Per all.

Comments
Shouldn't this be a TPP? 20:06, 8 April 2014 (EDT)
 * It could be, but it covers 2 different topics so I put it here.

It seems unnecessarily fiddly to break down Kart just to copy and paste the same information to another article, not really seeing the benefit here. And just going off the information currently up in Bike, we'd be breaking it down into a stub to create another stub, when the current host article seems to serve the purpose well enough. I'm not going to vote until someone explains to me what the end goal really is here, what is the actual benefit of breaking these two articles down further. --
 * The goal is to basically move the stats and information on the general Standard parts into their own article while the Kart and Bike articles cover the 2 vehicles as a whole. The current kart page covers the Karts from all games (looking at the Double Dash!! as it has a picture of all the karts in the game) while covering the information about a single kart/part. Why keep the information on the Standard in the generic kart article when we can have a separate article for said part like all the other karts/parts have?
 * @Ghost Jam, short articles are NOT stubs. I'd rather have short articles organized nicely w/o padding than large articles that a large, bloated, and are padded out on this wiki. 22:30, 10 April 2014 (EDT)

--
 * @Tails777 I follow the reasoning and the logic, and in principle I believe I agree. What's bothering me is the creation of stub or fluff articles. Can you guarantee that there is enough information available to make this worth the trouble? If yes, then I guess I'm behind it.
 * @Baby Luigi The line between "this article is short" and "this article is a stub" is pretty thin and has been something editors have argued about since the start of this wiki. A bloated article is just as bad as a sparse one, both can be dealt with by stepping in before it happens.
 * I've written down here what the Standard Kart article would look like, basically a draft of it.
 * Ok, you've got my support. --


 * Actually, there's a pretty notable difference between a stub and a short article. A stub is an article that lacks sufficient information. Most stubs are short articles, yes, but not all short articles are stubs. They're short because that's all that can be said about them without having to pad the articles out. An article about the level that does not have any further information other than basic information would definitely be classified as a stub because it lacks sufficient information to get an understanding of the subject. Sufficiency and completeness is the key, not the length of the article. 23:07, 10 April 2014 (EDT)
 * Correction, all stubs are short articles (and/or sections, although we see far less of that on MarioWiki than, as an example, Bulbapedia), which is why we have more peer review for short articles and subjects that lack more than passing information. Additionally, you're thinking too hard about the precise words I'm using here. I'm not insinuating that any and all short articles are stubs, rather that they are more prone to becoming stubs, either at creation or due to over specialization. It's not about padding an article (in fact, if you have to pad an article to reach a point where people aren't going to start slapping "fix this" templates on it, it either needs to be merged into another article or dropped), it's about proving that a subject is worth having a separate article. You prove this by supplying context and showing relevance. If that can be done in a few sentences, well done, but that can't be and shouldn't be blanket applied to everything.


 * As we are very quickly moving off subject, I'm going to ask that we end this here and move it to either the forums or talk pages. --