Talk:Noki

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The Packees, Dune Buddy and Mommy Noki
I have found out that The Packees are named in the encyclopedia (and also found out that their English name is the same as their Japanese name. Dune Buddy is the one who cares about Dune Buds, and Momy Noki is the one that holds it baby. What are we going to do about them if they are named in the encyclopedia? -- 07:52, June 5, 2019 (EDT)
 * Packees? Are you talking about the three that introduce themselves in Pinna Park? Pretty sure those called themselves the Buckies or something... Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 14:00, June 5, 2019 (EDT)
 * Yes, those triplets, called Maki-Maki, Miru-Miru and Mai-Mai. -- 09:24, June 7, 2019 (EDT)
 * They're named Plucky, Lucky, and Ducky of the Buckies in-game (I'm not sure which is which). Even the Japanese name more or less translates to "Buckies" (バッキーズ, Bakkīzu). So we've got two errors: one simple diacritical mark mistake, the other for the translator having not played the game. LinkTheLefty (talk) 10:35, June 7, 2019 (EDT)
 * What are their names in the guides? Out of curiosity, do Dune Buddy and the Mommy Noki have names in any guides? -- 13:15, June 7, 2019 (EDT)
 * iirc Ducky was the pink one. I was actually going to suggest making a Buckies page a couple of weeks ago, but I forgot to. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 14:20, June 7, 2019 (EDT)
 * What about Dune Buddy and Mommy Noki? What guides give them a name besides the infamous encyclopedia? -- 14:56, June 7, 2019 (EDT)
 * If they're in Gelato Beach and Noki Bay, then they're unmentioned in English guides. Japanese encyclopedia refers to them as 「きのめマニア」 or "Leaf Bud Mania(c)" and 「母親マーレ」 or "Mother Mare" on page 101. LinkTheLefty (talk) 19:21, June 7, 2019 (EDT)
 * In PP, the Buckies are always with the conch guy, can't remember if they appear with him at the Gelato Beach race (where he appears at the end). Since I'm home for the summer, I may check. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 23:23, June 7, 2019 (EDT)
 * Man, that sucks on the fact that they rarely use "Hiragana above Kanji", for non-Kanji readers, especially me Then what are we going to do with them if they have an english name in the encyclopedia? -- 02:09, June 8, 2019 (EDT)
 * Personally I don't know if the Dune Bud guy deserves an article, since the game itself gives him no more importance than any other Noki. The Buckies are at least a game-named group, and the mother looks unique. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 04:11, June 8, 2019 (EDT)
 * What about the conch-playing ones? -- 04:27, June 9, 2019 (EDT)
 * The conch-playing individual has a unique design, but at the same time he's used to represent the Nokis in both the manual and the in-game map. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 14:20, June 9, 2019 (EDT)
 * That says, i wonder wether the Buckies should have their own articles, or all merged in one page... -- 09:30, June 10, 2019 (EDT)
 * If the encyclopedia gives the Mommy Noki a name, then what are we going to do with it? We can't cite the encyclopedia. -- 07:38, June 14, 2019 (EDT)

Determine how to handle this page
Regarding the above discussion, we have a trio of Nokis collectively referred to as "Buckies", however, the encyclopedia calls them "Packees" both due to misinterpreting the handakuten as a dakuten, and because we didn't add this info earlier. They're called Plucky, Ducky, and Lucky. However, the encyclopedia calls them Mai-Mai, Maki-Maki, and Miru-Miru, reminiscent of their Japanese name, which is also both because he didn't play the game, and because we didn't add this info. The Mommy Noki is called as such in the encyclopedia, although, we can't cite the encyclopedia, and i believe none of the guides distinguish from the normal Nokis. As for the baby, it is neither named, neither seen apart from its mother. Depending on the consensus, i will vote for the option with most votes.

Proposer:

Deadline: August, 28, 2019, 23:59 GMT

Just split Buckies while merging the trio info into it

 * 1) - I don't have enough information on the mommy Noki(s?) at the moment, but as seen above, Doc was going to suggest a separate article for the Buckies. Even if it'll be along the lines of the Fearsome 5 and Traveling Sisters 3, we're the Super Mario Wiki. We document all things Mario. As such, I'm unsure why we're considering to deny at least an article's worth of coverage, regardless of how much we can say about it. Generally, that isn't an object.
 * 2) - Second option to go with my comment below. Prefer nothing happens, but per LinkTheLefty.
 * 3) Per all.
 * Eh, we already have articles for characters from RPGs who are probably as important, or even less, than the Buckies. Per LinkTheLefty.
 * 1) Per all.
 * 2) Per all.
 * 3) Per all.

Don't split anything

 * 1) - First of all, six options is a bit much. Second, this doesn't need to be a proposal right off the bat. Third, I really don't think that every single minor character that barely does anything needs a character page.
 * 2) - Per my comment.
 * 3) - Per all. I've played the game extensively and have no reason to believe they're anything other than named Noki NPCs.
 * 4) Our current coverage, combined with the fact that we apparently didn't even mention these characters for years until the Encyclopedia pointed them out, and the proposer have all failed to convince me that these characters are significant enough to deserve articles of their own.

Comments
I've never had the opportunity to play Sunshine and it's been quite some time since I've watched any footage of it, so I don't know anything about these characters. Do they actually do anything in the game, or are they just generic NPCs who exist to say "hi Mario, I'm this person" and nothing else? If it's the latter, I see no reason to split. -- 12:38, August 14, 2019 (EDT)
 * If we had split the Buckies before the Super Mario Encyclopedia's release, we would have gotten less errors in it. -- 12:39, August 14, 2019 (EDT)
 * That doesn't answer my question. Do they have any significant role in the game, or do they not? If we haven't mentioned them at all for this long, I highly doubt they do anything in the game worthy of articles. (And frankly, the Encyclopedia was an unsalvageable mess anyway, with or without us. There's nothing that can be done to change it now.) -- 12:42, August 14, 2019 (EDT)
 * I remember this from playing the game: They really are just generic NPCS who only exist to say "hi Mario, I'm this person". They don't do anything relevant to the plot, they just stand at the carousel in Pinna Park. 12:59, August 14, 2019 (EDT)

Pretty sure the proposer has to vote for something right off the bat, but I could be wrong. 12:41, August 14, 2019 (EDT)
 * When i make a proposal like this (6 options for example), i usually hold off until which option has the most votes. -- 12:43, August 14, 2019 (EDT)
 * Also, IIRC, they are relevant to gameplay. -- 12:43, August 14, 2019 (EDT)

By the way, there's no reason whatsoever to give each of the Buckies their own page even if the group was split. We already have group articles like the Fearsome 5 and Traveling Sisters 3 where nothing can really be said about the characters individually. -- 12:49, August 14, 2019 (EDT)
 * I'd watch a walkthrough to see if there's enough info, since i have vague memories. -- 12:53, August 14, 2019 (EDT)
 * I have the game, I'll see if my Gamecube allows me to play it. 12:54, August 14, 2019 (EDT)
 * So yeah, very unimportant characters. They do introduce themselves as so-and-so of the Buckies, but they do nothing else. Could maybe give them a group page like we do for those Waluigi Time pointed out, but the Buckies are even less important than those. The conch guy just plays a conch and the mother Noki is just a Noki with a child, doesn't need split. 13:03, August 14, 2019 (EDT)
 * This proposal doesn't cover the conch guy. -- 13:05, August 14, 2019 (EDT)
 * Yeah, but he was mentioned earlier, so thought I'd point him out anyway. 13:07, August 14, 2019 (EDT)
 * Should i cut this proposal to 4 options? -- 13:12, August 14, 2019 (EDT)
 * Also, Doc von Schmeltwick claimed that it at least has an unique design, but regarding the gameplay, it's best to watch walkthroughs. -- 10:29, August 15, 2019 (EDT)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the mommy Noki a generic NPC design (as in, there are several of her around) instead of a specific character? LinkTheLefty (talk) 16:06, August 14, 2019 (EDT)
 * There's only ever one at a time and I always interpreted it as a single character. Anyways, it doesn't really need a proposal, as they aren't currently merged to this article, they just aren't given a lot of info here. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 13:39, August 15, 2019 (EDT)

@LinkTheLefty: The Buckies are just NPCs who stand near a carousel and say "Hello, I'm so-and-so". By that logic, the Pianta who walks in a square in the Pianta-throws-you-land secret level and has caused needless destruction and lost lives can get his own page too. Same goes for Conch Guy and Mommy Noki. Just because it has a name doesn't mean it should be split. 13:50, August 15, 2019 (EDT)
 * Actually, they introduce various attractions, depending on the episode. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 20:22, August 15, 2019 (EDT)
 * And they're still just NPCs who introduce things. If so, we can split the Lumas in front of the domes in the Comet Observatory. 20:27, August 15, 2019 (EDT)
 * Nope. "Having a name" is in fact an extra bonus in the "deserves an article" department. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 20:31, August 15, 2019 (EDT)
 * If they have a name and do something, they definitely deserve an article, even as just a group. Unnamed Lumas are just generic, named NPCs with different dialog that do stuff. (Introduce attractions) There is a reason why we split named RPG characters, and that should apply to named characters outside of RPGS. 20:38, August 15, 2019 (EDT)
 * Agreed with Doc von Schmeltwick and Doomhiker. -- 06:51, August 16, 2019 (EDT)
 * These NPCs, while named, do not do anything of note, and simply say "Hello Mario I'm so-and-so and this is a ride". I fail to see why such minor characters should be split, especially since they weren't mentioned here until the wonderful Encyclopedia mentioned them, of course messing up the name. 10:25, August 16, 2019 (EDT)
 * You could say that about many, many, npcs in RPGs. Just because they were not mentioned here until the book did doesn't mean they are not worthy of an article. We make mistakes too. Again, the Buckies are named characters, and should be covered. 11:11, August 16, 2019 (EDT)
 * Agreed with minor RPG characters, and I also want to really emphasize that "the wonderful Encyclopedia" should actually further motivate us to give them an article, given that the book would likely not have referred to them with an incorrect name had we only covered them earlier. LinkTheLefty (talk) 11:22, August 16, 2019 (EDT)
 * Thing is, RPGs are different from platformers, in that talking to NPCs is normally a large part of RPGs. The NPCs we have covered at the moment actually do things besides nothing. Great, now we're blaming ourselves for the encyclopedia's mistakes, how nice. 11:27, August 16, 2019 (EDT)
 * They are different form platformers, but that does not stop us from covering platformer aspects in RPG games. Even though NPCs are not the focus in platforming games, they still are a part of the game that should be covered. And characters such as the previously mentioned Traveling Sisters 3 are characters that don't do much either except for travelling to different places, but we still cover them. And we are not blaming ourselves for the book's mistakes. However, as our wiki is used more and more, by both official and unofficial sources, it is important that we organize and present our information in more accurate ways, to prevent the users of our wiki making mistakes due to issues with our presentation, such as us merging named characters into a general species page. 11:34, August 16, 2019 (EDT)


 * I don't know if this helps or not, but the mother Noki and the Conch shell Noki have official plushes. 12:00, August 18, 2019 (EDT)
 * What in the solar Underwhere. Interesting, but since they still don't have official names, unless some info shows up at the last second, Nokottasu-style, probably no split. 12:10, August 18, 2019 (EDT)
 * Actually, look at this picture. Their tags shown Japanese names which are different from generic Noki's and Super Mario Sunshine's Japanese names. 13:09, August 18, 2019 (EDT)
 * According to 2257 on Discord the tags simply say "plush" and "resident of isle delfino", not only not giving them names but also implying that they are generic. 14:15, August 18, 2019 (EDT)
 * Considering the choices for the NPC's plushes, it's likely that those characters were only chosen because of their official artwork. The plushes are most likely based on the only Piantas and Nokis that were given official artwork outside of guides. For example, the blue Pianta plush holds a durian, which it only does in its artwork. I just think that's worth noting. 13:03, August 19, 2019 (EDT)