Talk:Yoshi (species)

Knife, Yoshis do change color in Super Mario Sunshine. Haven't you completely played the game? 21:02, 13 December 2006 (EST)

I have and SoS states that only the main Yoshi has appeared in it. See the main Yoshi's talk page.

I personally think the Yoshis on sunshine are a sub spiecies of Yoshis who change color as they eat.

Colors
Shouldnt ALL those different color Yoshi's be merged with this? - Ultimatetoad

Ummm....hello? - Ultimatetoad

I agree. There can be a section about the colors of Yoshis, similar to Toads. I don't see many distinctive properties about the Yoshi colors and they should be merged into this article. 20:34, 28 February 2007 (EST)


 * I agree as well. Per Knife. -- 21:46, 28 February 2007 (EST)
 * I disagree because they are a sub-species. 15:03, 26 July 2007 (EDT)

Excess Express.
I've played the game, but I don't remember being any Yoshis (other than your partner of course). --Bentendo 16:50, 12 March 2007 (EDT)

neither do I,

He's on the train, shows up randomly and says he hopes he isn't late getting home or his wife will kill him or something. -- Sir Grodus


 * He also talks about his love of curry, and his preference of it over meat... (Sometimes.) --YellowYoshi398 16:54, 12 March 2007 (EDT)

hmm.... I never seen one on there... I'll take your word for it,


 * Really? I don't remember that! Happily I'm almost there on my second play through (about to defeat cortez). Could you explain where he is? --Bentendo 11:49, 14 March 2007 (EDT)

I can't really remember, I think near the dining cart or in it, but only occasionally; I think he might be green or orange or something. -- Sir Grodus

He isn't there the first time you play through.

The Yoshi is in the dining car, standing next to the door that leads to the cabins 003-005. He's green, though. He isn't there the first time you play, through, but every time you ride the Excess Express again, he shows up randomly. He's also the only Yoshi in the game besides the Yoshi Kid. Maybe the developers thought having a Yoshi in your party would make up for that, so they didn't include that many. That Yoshi has a saddle, too... --Jolene

I can verify Jolene's statement, if you haven't been convinced already. It's a very well hidden Easter Egg. Thanks for describing it for me, Jolene! 15:53, 19 June 2007 (EDT)

Plural
Is the plural form of the species name Yoshis or Yoshies? It's actually used both ways depending on which game you play, I've heard. I just need to know which one was used more recently then. Maybe in Yoshi's Island DS? 16:02, 19 June 2007 (EDT)

Theoretically etymologically, it should be Yoshi, but mistakes like this happen all the time, or it could be an exception.

Hmm... I remember there was a web site that talked about this. 17:03, 19 June 2007 (EDT)

Canonical spelling is Yoshis. 22:23, 14 July 2007 (EDT)
 * No. Canonical spelling is both Yoshis and Yoshies. It's explained in the article.

The plural for Yoshi has often come up in debates. Some argue that "Yoshis" is the proper term, while others argue that "Yoshies" is correct. Japanese plurals have no indicative marks, meaning that "Yoshi" is another (unlikely) possibility. Nintendo of America has used both "Yoshies" and "Yoshis" in the Super Nintendo and Game Boy Advance versions of Yoshi's Island, respectively. It could be that both versions are valid.
 * To have it said, I somehow dislike the concept of "canon". - 15:24, 26 July 2007 (EDT)

I think it's Yoshis. It is even spelled like that in Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Winter Games!

Yoob
is he realy a Yoshi? I thought he was a robot...


 * He does seem robotic, but he's probably still worthy of mention as he's clearly based on the Yoshis. I agree with you in that I don't think he should be listed under Notable Yoshis, though.

i think yoob is a yoshi. purifieda

Yoshi (isle delfino)?
Either we should make another section, or make a new article! The Yoshis on Isle Delfino CAN'T be the Yoshis we know! That might have to change this Yoshi article to Yoshi (yoshi's island) or something. Tell me no or yes. It's facts! I mean, does Yoshi have cancer all the time? No! New article, or new section?


 * New section would probably be best, or just put Isle Delfino info in the appropriate sections in this article. Just because the game mechanics are different doesn't mean these are a different species of Yoshi.  They are all the same Yoshis - gameplay is different between all games.  And I don't think any character has ever had cancer in the Mario games. -- Son of Suns


 * Actually the Super Mario Sunshine's manual says Yoshis found in Isle Delfino can't stand water, so it's likely they are separate from the other Yoshis.

Mister Wu (talk) 20:06, 11 February 2015 (EST)

Let's just do another section. I'm just saying, those can't be Yoshi's Island Yoshis! And I was only kidding about cancer, because ya know how they're about to do die if they're green. Minimariolover10

i think yoshis from isle delfino are yoshi's island yoshis.

Gold Yoshi
Why isn't there a gold yoshi article cos he appeared as an unlockobable character in yoshi's story Super   Yoshi10 | Lookey This
 * There was White and Black Yoshi... do you have video footage or anything that we could use as proof? 00:01, 22 June 2008 (EDT)

Mario Super Sluggers
Why is there no info about Mario Super Sluggers in this article? Strange...
 * Everything where there's a single character called "Yoshi" on the selection screen is placed in the Yoshi article. 00:02, 22 June 2008 (EDT)

Merge color Yoshies into Yoshi (species)
PROPOSAL DELETED 2-4

Black Yoshi, Red Yoshi, Yellow Yoshi, Blue Yoshi, Orange Yoshi, White Yoshi, Light Blue Yoshi, Brown Yoshi, Pink Yoshi, Green Yoshi and Purple Yoshi. Most of those Yoshies have minute differences between them, and the ones that do have notable differences, well, those differences just aren't notable enough. If we leave, say, White, Black, Red, Blue and Yellow split and merge the rest, it wouldn't be consistent, whereas if we leave one or two really major ones, it would be fair, like Blue Toad and Yellow Toad.

Proposer: Deadline: 24 February, 2010 20:00

Support
 * 1) Proposer.
 * 2) Per Reversinator.

Oppose
 * 1) - This has been rejected previously. Yoshis are different, have different powers, abilities, etc
 * Strict NO. Per Tucayo, they are all different, there are also some sources (comics) which are not yet included in the wiki in which there are also differently-colored Yoshis who have different caracteristics etc. This merging mania on the wiki has to have an end. We're the Mario Wiki, what else could we cover exactly if not a major species in the Mario series?
 * 1) Per all. This issue had already brought up.
 * 2) Per Tucayo.

Comments @Tucayo: You say that the idea was rejected in the past, but now that I look at this talk page, there's a section towards the top of the page in where Knife and KPH (both sysops at the time) agree in merging the articles. Although why it never happened is beyond my knowledge. --
 * All right, where has this been previously discussed?

I also notice that most of the Yoshi color articles are either short, one-section articles (e.g. Orange Yoshi and Purple Yoshi), and some, like Light Blue Yoshi are a collection of one-line sections, many of them simply discussing a color-change of Yoshi as a playable character. If one of Yoshi's color swaps is Light Blue, does that mean that it is then a different character entirely? If anybody remembers the article (which is now in BJAODN I believe), it was something silly about Mario being a species because of his different "pigments". That article was treated as a joke (appropriately so), but the way these Yoshi articles are written imply that when Yoshi from Super Mario Galaxy eats a fruit and becomes an orange color, it has become a different character rather than just a differently-colored generic Yoshi. This is something that should be cleared up. --

If it's just a different color change as associated with an ability, I think it should stay like that in the Yoshi article, as it refers the color of the Yoshi. Just don't list directly as the main orange Yoshi; just say "In Super Mario Galaxy 2, when a Green Yoshi eats blah, he changes color, which is orange. Note that this is not an actual orange Yoshi, just a color change that represents an orange Yoshi" or something like that.
 * You still haven't explained where it was originally discussed.
 * Well, it wasn't directly explained here, but it's still the same subject.
 * This proposal of the opposite of that proposal.

@Garlic: well, yeah, but that was 2007 :P We may have to see what they (Knife) think now. @Reversinator: Proposals. All failed. -- 20:36, 17 February 2010 (EST)

@Reversinator: I know it was the opposite, but it's the main reason why we have the Yoshi pages all separate and other colored enemies merged.

Assuming
Are we just assuming things about Yoshis? First of all, how do we know the Yoshi that appears as a playable character in Mario games is the same as the Green Yoshi that appears in games as a species? Shouldn't the appearances of Yoshi where it is a species be specific solely to the Green Yoshis page? The appearances where he is playable in spin-offs or is clearly his own character are the only appearances that should even be on his page.

Also, there's problems with the Yoshis appearing in SMG2. IT's not the light blue or orange Yoshis at all, it's a singular Green Yoshi, or the Yoshi himself, turning into an ORange and Light Blue Yoshi. It's not the same though because Yoshi has changed colors before, always first as Green Yoshi or "the" Yoshi, and you can even see this Yoshis shoe colors aren't even changing. How does that count as ORange and Light Blue Yoshi appearing as they are listed to? Panchito 08:26, 2 March 2010 (EST)


 * The color changes are worth mentioning because they represent the color being changed to. We can just say, "In Monosodium Glutamate 2, orange is one of the colors Yoshi transforms into, blah blah blah," because it's still an orange Yoshi, just a differently colored Green Yoshi.


 * For the Green Yoshis part, usually, the gaming manual or some other source says "Mario this time rides on Yoshi!" and they don't say a Green Yoshi. But multiple Green Yoshis appear in the game, and we know that Yoshi can't appear in more than one place at a time, no matter how freaky Nintendo is, so that makes that green Yoshi a species.

Yoshis
I've seen articles use Yoshi, Yoshis and I think even Yoshies as the plural form of Yoshi. So what is it?
 * It's already been discussed. 09:09, 3 May 2010 (EDT)

Umm
Your getting it all wrong when Yoshi first appeared, he first appear in The game with the same name as Yoshi. But, if you mean the Mario series, your right. User:Paper Culex
 * The First Appearance concerns the overall Mario series, so the article is correct. - 18:06, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Putting all colors of Yoshies into one article
LEAVE AS SEPARATE ARTICLES 2-16

I think we should put all the colors in one article, so that helps the wiki get more organized.

Proposer: Deadline: June 1, 2011, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) Per my proposal.
 * 2) Given that all of the different colored Yoshi articles don't seem to have all too much useful information, I say merge them. Unless someone can come along and add a considerable amount to each of them.

Oppose

 * 1) each yoshi has it's own abilities and appear in seperate games at the same time it makes no sense to merge them into one article also this article would be huge and overly confusing since there are like 10 different colors of Yoshi who have appeared through out the years and each one of them would have to be given a bio section to detail what they have done in the mario series which would be huge since the different colors of Yoshi often appear in many different games serving many roles.
 * 2) Per Goomba! Red Yoshi appeared many times! So does the green one! Leave it!
 * 3) Per Goomba's Shoe15. Each Yoshi was different appearences and abilites. It would be hard to include all info on one page of every Yoshi colour.
 * 4) Per Goomba's Shoe15 and Tails777.
 * 5) We already discuss about this, but per all.
 * 6) Different color ones appear in different games. I guess thats my way of saying: " Per the Goomba in a shoe-sized 15 That was lame! Per Goomba's Shoe15."
 * 7) Per those who per Goomba's Shoe15.
 * 8) Per the best thing Goombas Shoe15has ever said,and per the opposing comments on the earlier version of this proposal
 * 9) I have dealt with this extensively before and my reasons for opposing any split between these articles stand. My reason: all have different abilities.
 * 10) Je suis d'accord avec tout le monde.
 * 11) - Not all Yoshi colors have appeared in each game.  Keeping them separate helps to figure out which games they've appeared in, along with their abilities.
 * 12) Per M&SG.
 * 13) Per all.
 * 14) Per all.
 * 15) Per all.
 * 1) Per all.

Comments
@Goomba: We can just give each color it's own section.

Who signed this?
 * Ta-daa.

@MarioManiac you want to merge 11 colors into one article despite the fact that each some colors have played a large part in the Mario series and have displayed unique abilities not to mention the length of said article fitting in info on each game apperance by each color of yoshi which would create a huge article that would be less efficent than what we have now

By the way, isn't there a TPP right up there that is simmeral to this?

Rideable
Should we move the info of Yoshi being rideable here? I think the Yoshis you ride are Yoshi species.

yes, i think all yoshis are yoshi species. purifieda


 * Yeah, most of the info in the Powers and Abilities section of Yoshi's page can be moved here, although his page should still mention all the abilities. - 09:54, 7 August 2011 (EDT)

how can you tell is a Yoshi is female?
 * Dialogue. - 11:43, 28 June 2014 (EDT)

Are Yoshis no longer dinosaurs?
The Nintendo U.K.'s "Nintendo Kids Club" site says in the "Read & discover" section that Yoshi is not a dinosaur. Is it just a "mistake" of this site or has any information that states that Yoshi is a dinosaur been removed from recent games as well?Mister Wu (talk) 17:05, 1 December 2014 (EST)

Source for the artwork of Yoshi without a shoe
What is the source of this very interesting artwork? It seems a Japanese guide or manual related to Super Mario World but there's not much information about it. Mister Wu (talk) 20:15, 11 February 2015 (EST)

I have an idea.
Why don't you add the order of Yoshis in Yoshi's Island and Yoshi's Island DS? --Mushroom Koop (talk) 08:42, 21 April 2015 (EDT)
 * Like what we do for the Koopalings? Sounds like a good idea - but perhaps we can do even better by replacing the bulleted list in the Colouration section with a chart about more than just those games - like a presence/absence chart on a spinoff page, only with the order numbers in the Yoshi platformers and the number of steps required to get each colour in PM:TTYD instead of plain check marks. - 17:47, 21 April 2015 (EDT)

Golden Yoshi in the colours section
Should we add a Golden Yoshi alongside Magenta Yoshi in the colours section, because they are both from the same games? 12:59, 2 June 2015 (EDT)

Bahamutt, Dorrie, and Plessie
I have decided to put these three as related to the Yoshi based upon their Japanese names being puns/following the same structure, and their similar heads/anatomy in general/roles, depending on the exact one. Would anyone be opposed to this? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:00, 6 November 2017 (EST)

I'm a bit iffy on Dorrie, but I can see the other two, after all Dorrie had goggles and no shell. And I think there is enough confusion on the Dorrie Page. Chat Man (talk) 00:06, 6 November 2017 (EST)
 * Doshi, in Japanese. As is Bahamutt. And it was only a shell in prerelease, in the final, it's a saddle, according to the book included with the All-Stars 25th anniversary thing. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:10, 6 November 2017 (EST)

I don't know, weren't you disgusted with the nature of my proposal, and how it's science, and now you're saying the opposite (With a name resembling Yoshi's as proof), stay consistent man. Chat Man (talk) 00:13, 6 November 2017 (EST)
 * I beg your pardon? Dorrie is still based off of a plesiosaur, just a plesiosaur-version of a Yoshi. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:22, 6 November 2017 (EST)

I think that's a bit of a stretch, perhaps it's best to just say Dorrie is the the species, cause you know odyssey and all. And I stand by my proposal (although I found an Infobox category for species based on, so that might be a nice thing to try and fail to propose). If there's one thing I can do, it's admit when I'm wrong, I believe you to be right for this case... I still think my proposal is right. Chat Man (talk) 00:27, 6 November 2017 (EST)
 * I did say related, not outright a member of the Yoshi species. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:29, 6 November 2017 (EST)

How do you plan on doing that? If so do you have references? Chat Man (talk) 00:30, 6 November 2017 (EST)
 * The "related" section of the infobox, due something similar for the template. As for references, I'd say the Japanese name being derived from it, coupled with the similar head shape and rideability, is enough of a reference. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:33, 6 November 2017 (EST)

I meant more reference to where you found the name, but I still think that it's a bit loose to be added as a fact. But has enough proof to be logical. I'll stay neutral on this one. Be wary, I'm still not convinced that's enough though. (Also I don't think rideability is a qualification for yoshi, just saying). Chat Man (talk) 00:40, 6 November 2017 (EST)
 * I imagine the name came from a shokakugan guide or the Japanese Mario Party Advance. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:41, 6 November 2017 (EST)
 * The name came definitely earlier than Mario Party Advance, since, so I guess it came from the Nintendo Official Guidebook of Super Mario 64.--Mister Wu (talk) 11:05, 6 November 2017 (EST)

Eh, as long as the administrators are fine, go ahead and add it. Chat Man (talk) 00:48, 6 November 2017 (EST)

The problem is what you mean by related. Did the designers of Dorrie and Plessie follow guidelines similar to those used to design Yoshi and named the characters with the 「ッシー」 suffix accordingly? Likely yes. Does this mean that they are all related species? Definitely not! Currently Yoshi is not considered a dinosaur, with the bio of Nintendo co., Ltd. from last year noting how the saddle is indeed a shell and suggesting that the possible candidates to identify Yoshi's species are dinosaurs and turtles. This year's interview about the origin of Yoshi finally clarified that indeed Yoshi had a shell on the back and was intended to be related to turtles from the start. Plessie on the other hand is officially considered a dinosaur. To remind you how similar development guidelines can often create characters which are then completely unrelated from a species point of view, I'd like to remind you how Madame Broode and the Broodals were almost surely based on Bowser and the Koopalings, yet they are completely unrelated from a species point of view, since the formers are rabbits, the latters turtles.--Mister Wu (talk) 11:05, 6 November 2017 (EST)
 * This comes from what, Nintendo of Europe or something? I'm talking something I'm pretty sure Miyamoto said (it was him or one of the other two). I've come to sort of distrust things that NoE have said, due to the fact that they so heavily contradict things that have been previously said. If Yoshi's not a Dinosaur, why is he the star inhabitant of Dinosaur Land? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 14:30, 6 November 2017 (EST)
 * The one who said that Yoshi is related to turtles is none other than Takashi Tezuka, the director of Super Mario World and character designer as well (he himself made some sketches of Yoshi's preliminary design, correcting Shigefumi Hino's first sketch of Yoshi which was lizard-like). And this is not an European thing, it's on the Japanese site as well, with the very same text. Anyway, if you read the original Japanese manual of Super Mario World, you'll see that Yoshi was actually introduced as a 「ドラゴン」, a dragon (which is also why the Dragon Coins were named like that!), . Nonetheless, on Yoshi was indeed stated to be a 「恐竜」, a dinosaur, as well. Regarding him being a turtle, well, this is actually pretty old, as, and in the Super Mario History Booklet released in 2010 , the only difference is that since last year Yoshi being a turtle started to appear in official bios and nowadays Tezuka speaks more openly, stating that Yoshi is indeed intended to be a turtle.--Mister Wu (talk) 18:06, 6 November 2017 (EST)
 * OK. He's the one that said he was originally intended to be a turtle, now I remember But then he said that "The saddle was supposed to be his shell." This seems to inticatie that that hideous skinny preliminary Yoshi that can be seen with some supplemental material with the SNES Classic was the "turtle" design. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:24, 6 November 2017 (EST)
 * That's what he stated in 2010, look at what he states now:I kind of forced the design through, saying, “It’s related to turtles.”, Hisashi Nogami also sated that the saddle on his back is A shell. Even after I joined the company, Tezuka kept insisting that it was a shell., finally the interviewer, Akinori Sao, stated And that’s how Super Mario World, which debuted Yoshi as kin to turtles, became the top-selling title worldwide for Super NES.. Ultimately, little has changed from what he already stated in 2010, the little difference is nonetheless there: before it was a thing of the past, now Yoshi is stated to have been designed as related to turtles and to actually have a shell on his back, which perfectly reflects what Yoshi's Japanese bio from yesteryear suggested when it stated Even though there's a shell on his back, we actually don't know whether Yoshi's a dinosaur or a turtle!.--

Mister Wu (talk) 19:32, 6 November 2017 (EST)
 * Shelled dinosaurs exist. But they're more Bowser-like. And as ancient reptiles, they are, indeed, related to turtles. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 19:38, 6 November 2017 (EST)
 * On a related note, up until the most recent Nintendo 3DS / Wii U games, the Super Smash Bros. series has consistently called Yoshi a dinosaur. Maybe Tezuka's position explains the sudden stop. LinkTheLefty (talk) 19:42, 6 November 2017 (EST)
 * I'd stll like an explanation behind Dinosaur Land. If Yoshi is a turtle dragon and Rex is a dragon, the only dinosaurs left are Dino Rhino and Dino Torch, found solely on Chocolate Island, and Reznor, which is a 3-time miniboss. Oh yeah, and that ghost Eerie. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 19:46, 6 November 2017 (EST)
 * I think that, conceptually, Yoshi is not a dinosaur, but it's been an established factoid for over twenty years that it's really silly to backpedal on it now. Stranger things have happened, though. LinkTheLefty (talk) 19:55, 6 November 2017 (EST)
 * Well, the official Japanese guide of Super Mario World stated that he was a dinosaur as well, not to say that the Japanese bio of last year still mentioned the word dinosaur. It's a term that also appeared in Japan, although there he was mainly referred to as a dragon. To go more in the detail about the relationship between Yoshi and Dinosaur Land, though, Tezuka actually also talked about this in this year's interview: When we started making Super Mario World, we were working with the concept of a dinosaur land, so I had Hino do art for a kind of reptile.. On Super Smash Bros., the dates indeed match, as Super Smash Bros. Brawl was released in 2008, before the 2010 reveal that Yoshi was intended to be a turtle and the subsequent ongoing process that is apparently more and more leading to Yoshi being considered a turtle. But if you want to look how important was stating that Yoshi's saddle is a shell in starting this process, look no further than the Mario & Sonic series: after Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games (the first) Yoshi was no longer stated to be a dinosaur, and indeed it was actually the DS version of Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Winter Games that revealed in 2009 that Yoshi's saddle is actually a shell.--Mister Wu (talk) 21:04, 6 November 2017 (EST)
 * Aaaaaaaanyways, if none of Yoshi, Bahamutt, Dorrie, and Plessie are dinosaurs, but all are reptiles, and all but the first were in some manner inspired by the first and theme-named in the original language, can they not all be considered related then? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 20:06, 6 November 2017 (EST)
 * I don't see why not, regardless of any apparent current story shenanigans. LinkTheLefty (talk) 20:15, 6 November 2017 (EST)
 * You can consider Bahamutt, Dorrie and Plessie related, as they all seem to follow similar design guidelines, as even the Japanese names imply, but I think you should add somewhere (maybe the main pages of those three?) why they are considered related, if the reason is not already stated, so there's no confusion.--Mister Wu (talk) 21:04, 6 November 2017 (EST)

bahamutt is like the only Yoshi look-alike. IMO plessie and dorrie look NOTHING like Yoshi New Super Luigi
 * The Japanese names and head-shape on both of the others are Yoshi-like.