MarioWiki:Proposals

Discourage use of the singular "they"
I'll start with this: it really annoys me when I see the word "they" used in the singular. In many places I see the words "she" and "they" used in the singular when gender is unknown. This does not annoy me because I am male, but because I know it is grammatically incorrect! I actually had a conversation with the other day on MarioWiki talk:Proposals/Header, and you know what he said? "'Their' is used when gender is indeterminable, so there's nothing wrong here." Look at this Wikipedia article on the singular "they". Notice that not once does it mention that "they" has not been officially accepted as a singular word! Gender and sex are two different things, gender being a grammatical term and sex being a biological term; they are only connected in English. This is a common misunderstanding among society which led to the creation of the informal word "themself"! My computer, in fact, does not like me using that word and underlines it in red! In grammatical terms (don't call me sexist because of what I'm about to say!), masculine is superior and feminine is inferior; hence, we use masculine words for the unknown gender. There is no reason we should use plural, feminine, or neuter words for the unknown gender. However, the Manual of Style encourages such informal grammar! We are a wiki; hence, we use proper grammar. "You" has been accepted as a singular word; "they" has not. So which should we prioritize: grammatical correctness or gender neutrality? Proposer: Deadline: November 26, 2017, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) As a wiki and encyclopedia, grammatical correctness takes priority.  Per my proposal.

Oppose

 * 1) You want us....to refer to the player.....as "he or she"......every single time? Sorry, gotta oppose. Not to mention all the ambiguously-gendered characters that is just awkward to refer to as "it."

Comments
@Doc: No, I am proposing that we just use "he". Using "he or she" is ugly and wrong; so is "they" in the singular. The word "themself" in itself is especially annoying. - 22:46, 19 November 2017 (EST)

New features
None at the moment.

Removals
None at the moment.

Remove the Mario & Sonic header templates
There are seven templates that are used exclusively for events in Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games: M&S-Athletics, M&S-Aquatics, M&S-Archery, M&S-Gymnastics, M&S-Rowing, M&S-Tennis, and M&S-Skeet. All of them are 100% pointless and should be dealt with. For starters, Fencing is completely missing from this deal for no explainable reason. If you say that's because Fencing only has one event tied to it, then automatically, the majority of the templates would also be deleted, since they too only cover a single event. Athletics, Aquatics, and Gymnastics are the only ones that cover multiple events, and even then, Gymnastics has a grand total of two. You don't need an entirely separate template for two articles. This is to say nothing of how none of the other games in the series have these templates or anything that resembles them, and really, they shouldn't. They only add an image to the top-right corner (which also creates ugly overlap with the FA template), which then links to the appropriate event category, and that's it. The categories are already on the pages in the first place, and the infoboxes already mention what kind of event it is. There is nothing to be gained from these templates, especially when they cover so few pages.

The most obvious solution (and most preferable, to me) would be to simply remove them, and have our readers actually look at the article for information rather than a small image in an obtuse location. While it would be possible to merge the templates into one (somewhat similar to Template:Button), which would solve the problem of having a bunch of scattered templates covering so few pages, they would still be wholly redundant and pointless. If someone thinks that the images are crucial to the articles, then they can be worked into the infoboxes, but otherwise, they're just wastes of space.

Proposer: Deadline: November 26, 2017, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) Per proposal.
 * 2) Per proposal.

Comments
Shouldn't this be a multi-option proposal, since you mentioned maybe working the templates into the infoboxes? 12:57, 19 November 2017 (EST)
 * I mentioned including the images into the infobox. I don't see why we can't both do that and delete the templates. 13:07, 19 November 2017 (EST)
 * Maybe someone else can :T Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 22:45, 19 November 2017 (EST)

Overlapping abbreviations in navigation templates
In the previous proposal about navigation templates, I noticed Template:G&Wario and how its name is totally inconsistent with every other name. It was presumably named that because "Template:G&W" could be confused with Template:Game & Watch, but that's not how we resolve overlaps. For example, since "SMS" could refer to either Super Mario Sunshine or Super Mario Strikers, their corresponding templates are written out in full, as Template:Super Mario Sunshine and Template:Super Mario Strikers. There are very few examples of this on the wiki, but in almost every case besides G&W, each name is written in full (the other exception being Template:WWS). With that in mind, "G&Wario" should be moved to Game & Wario to resolve the inconsistency.

However, a while back (in another proposal that involved standardizing names), I actually suggested doing what G&Wario's doing now, with the last word being written in full while the rest of the name is abbreviated. It was shot down in a later discussion by an admin, but now that we have an inconsistency to resolve, I thought that it would be worth bringing it up again. Using the half-abbreviated approach saves on space while still preventing confusion, but at the same time, it's kind of unwieldy and isn't particularly intuitive. With all of this in mind, there are three options: move G&Wario to follow the other templates' examples (option 1), move the other templates to follow G&Wario's example (option 2), and do nothing (option 3). We definitely shouldn't do nothing, since that would leave us with an inconsistency for no good reason, but beyond that, the other options are open for all.

Proposer: Deadline: November 27, 2017, 23:59 GMT

Comments
Affected templates:
 * Template:Game & Watch
 * Template:G&Wario
 * Template:Mario Sports Superstars
 * Template:Mario Super Sluggers
 * Template:Super Mario Sunshine
 * Template:Super Mario Strikers
 * Template:WarioWare: Touched!
 * Template:WarioWare: Twisted!
 * Template:WWS
 * Template:WW
 * Template:Yoshi's Safari
 * Template:Yoshi's Story

What about Template:WWS? That's for Wario's Woods, and it's also inconsistent with everything (Template:WW is for Wario World). 19:51, 19 November 2017 (EST)
 * I didn't even know about that one. Into the pile it goes! 19:55, 19 November 2017 (EST)

Super Hornio Bros Page
This is a bit of a controversial one, but here it goes. I think we should incorporate a full page on both Super Hornio films for preservation purposes instead of a mere description. I would like to do this, as the film is owned by Nintendo themselves, and the history behind them are extremely interesting. I've written a draft here: User:Howzit/Sandbox. We have so many other Mario knockoffs properly documented, why not this one?

Proposer: Deadline: November 19, 2017, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) Per proposal

Oppose

 * 1) Okay, since this has absolutely no relation to the Mario franchise whatsoever, I don't think this is a good idea at all.
 * 2) This is a place that kids visit. We have nothing in place to stop people underage from accessing adult only content, even if it is appropriately censored. Swearing is one thing (Bob Hoskins for example), but pornography is just a big no-no for a kid-friendly franchise and an unofficial wiki that is also kid-friendly.
 * 3) The reason this is owned by Nintendo is that they bought it out to prevent more entries coming out, as they apparently hadn't discovered that wonderful "sue" button they've used to take down far more quality-controlled fan games ever since.
 * 4) Not gonna lie, I would love if we had an article on that. It would be pretty funny and interesting. But it's not an official Mario product, despite Nintendo themselves owning the distribution rights. As such, I don't feel it deserves its own article. Rather, just a section in the bootlegs and knockoffs page we already have.
 * 5) Per all.
 * 6) - I'm going to oppose on the ground that from my understanding, Nintendo only bought the distribution rights and not the actual Super Hornio property (of course in practice, this is not that relevant of a distinction because only Nintendo has controls over wheter that is released). Because of that technicality, I think the way it's currently covered on the knockoffs page is the best (btw "Think of the children!" is a totally invalid reason)
 * 7) I think the brief description's enough, it is just a rip off and isn't part of the Mario series, so it definitely doesn't deserve an article of its own.
 * 8) Per all
 * 9) A) It's a bootleg. B) It is quite easily covered in List of Mario knockoffs acknowledged by Nintendo, so per all.
 * 10) Per all.
 * 11) Nintendo simply owning the distribution rights is not enough for a page like this to be covered in MarioWiki. While it may be tangentially related to Mario, it's around as relevant as Nintendo of America owning that Miami baseball team that I forgot the name of, and it borders on parody levels of content, which is not explicitly Mario (we don't mention Mario parodies on Mario's main article, for example such as Fix-It-Felix from Wreck-It Ralph, the same logic applies to Super Hornio Brothers). Everyone has already said that the best place for it to belong is an entry bootleg article and I agree with them, as it still deserves a mention of some sort by still being related to Mario.

Comments
@Wildgoosespeed: We already cover it on the wiki. Also, the subject matter is irrelevant, as we're a wiki first and foremost (as the point was made on Bob Hoskin's page; we're not about to censor anything). Besides, have you read the draft? It's purely professional. 01:12, 12 November 2017 (EST)
 * The more you know, am I right? Still, I consider such coverage questionable. -- 01:14, 12 November 2017 (EST)
 * Official content is official content, no matter what form it takes. What should be debated here is whether or not it should be covered in full. For the moment, I'm leaning towards giving it a separate page, simply because it was bought by Nintendo and is therefore an official product. 01:20, 12 November 2017 (EST)
 * Legal definitions are messy. I mean, the Mario IP was licensed to those who made the Category:Edutainment Games for DOS, PC, NES, and SNES, but that doesn't mean that the games are owned by Nintendo are official. Maybe I am wrong about that. The point is the original author isn't Nintendo and yet giving credit to them as if they were because they bought the film rights isn't quite right to then label it as "official". Legalities isn't the only measure of being official. I think that Nintendo has long since forgotten those licensed instances of the Mario franchise. -- 01:34, 12 November 2017 (EST)
 * Yeah TT the only way it's official is that Nintendo literally owns it and tell me what does that really mean?

@TimeTurner: Oh. My bad. I had no idea. I should probably think twice before I start shooting my mouth off for no reason. 18:35, 12 November 2017 (EST)
 * Seems nobody actually read my post. If anyone paid attention, yes, I am WELL aware that it is a knockoff which was then bought by Nintendo to stop production. I had even put that in my draft I wrote before hand. I simply wanted to just create a full page for more coverage on the topic, but apparently so many people are "offended" by having a full page on it. (Howzit) 15.11.2017
 * That's very presumptuous of you. Note the various other reasons stated in the opposition. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 04:04, 16 November 2017 (EST)
 * Thanks, I can read. (Howzit) 15.11.2017
 * Well then you know that the opposition is coming from policy due to it not being within this wiki's coverage to support a full page, not due to people being "offended" by its content. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:15, 16 November 2017 (EST)
 * "This is a place that kids visit. We have nothing in place to stop people underage from accessing adult only content, even if it is appropriately censored. Swearing is one thing (Bob Hoskins for example), but pornography is just a big no-no for a kid-friendly franchise and an unofficial wiki that is also kid-friendly." Also, it is entirely in the wiki's coverage. I wouldn't have made this post if it wasn't. Don't post a comment on a topic you know nothing about. (Howzit) 16.11.2017
 * It is completely outside the wiki's coverage. It is a bootleg parodic film made outside Nintendo without their permission, and as such deserves its own article here as much as Dian Shi Ma Li, Kart Fighter, Somari, Super Maruo, or whatever on Earth this is. Yes, Nintendo bought the distribution rights, but only because they didn't want it to exist. They didn't buy the rest of the rights, including the ones for the film itself. Also, do not insult people by telling them they know nothing about how this works, especially when they have more constructive edits here. While that doesn't describe me personally, it describes many of the others you're essentially yelling at here. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 01:06, 17 November 2017 (EST)
 * It's so completely outside of the wiki's coverage that we already have a section of a page dedicated to it? 01:27, 17 November 2017 (EST)
 * Crazy kids. Everyone gets offended over nothing now. I did not insult you. All you're doing is telling me stuff I already know. Stop telling me they bought the rights, I already knew that. It's also extremely obvious that you know nothing about the film. "Oh you're yelling at me here", you take everything as an "insult". Stop crying about it. I've done nothing nor said anything wrong, yet you keep making these half-arsed accusations of me. You are also literally stalking my posts. All of my recent posts, has had a reply from you. Quit it. (Howzit) 16.11.2017
 * You insulted me by saying I knew nothing about this, when in fact I did indeed do research on this film, as well as its plot and history. Rule of thumb: Telling people they're ignorant is generally considered to be an insult. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 01:37, 17 November 2017 (EST)
 * Cant be an insult if it's true. I actually own these films, unlike you. I've been studying them for over a decade. I think I know my stuff. (Howzit) 17.11.2017
 * You just said it is an objective fact that I am ignorant. This, combined with your suspicious recent userpage edits, is really starting to unsettle me. Stop, please. (Also I'm not ignorant, I made a 33/36 weighted average on my ACT the first try). Anyways, by textbook definition, you insulted me. Just because you're losing a proposal. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 01:43, 17 November 2017 (EST)
 * Why would you be unsettled if they weren't even aimed at you? You need to mind your own business. Second of all, It's not because of me losing a proposal. You replied to my comment, so naturally I replied back. After that you started throwing a complete two-year-old fit that I was "insulting you". (Howzit) 17.11.2017
 * And you started using implausible deniability to claim you weren't saying I was a moron who doesn't do research when you outright said "Cant[sic] be an insult if it's true" (which is flawed logic anyways). Anyways, the comment I made was in response to your emo-woe-is-me "Oh everyone's so 'offended,' that's the only reason they wouldn't support this!" comment. If you're going to accuse people of acting like they're of an age that people normally are just learning to speak, make sure you aren't doing the same thing. Also, "my own business." This is a community page, it's everyone here's business. As for your userpage, it's meant to be read by other wiki members, and they are allowed to draw their own conclusions from it. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 01:50, 17 November 2017 (EST)
 * You know absolutely nothing about me, you don't know who I am. What I decide to post on my own user-page is my own business. You can look at it all you want, I don't mind, but don't ask me about it. It has literally nothing to do with you. Look, I'll give you one bit of advice. Don't comment on back or on any of my other stuff. I don't want to see another single comment coming from you on any of my posts. You really need to learn to shut your mouth. Stop trying to just get the last word and let it die. (Howzit) 17.11.2017

This rubbish can stop here, or you’ll both be blocked.

07:08, 17 November 2017 (EST)

what is going on, someone hold me  ~Camwood777  (talk)  11:47, 17 November 2017 (EST)

Bring back game-similarity charts
Okay, so anyone reading this probably doesn't know what I'm talking about. Let me give you an example. This was my first edit on the wiki. I fixed the chart under "gameplay menus". But now this chart and the other one are both gone. The editor that removed the charts gave a one-word summary: "Unnecessary". It has happened with Mario Golf (series), Mario Tennis (series), Mario Party (series), and several others. Why? "Unnecessary" is an unacceptable reason to remove such charts. As an encyclopedia and a wiki, we should never remove info because we classify it "unnecessary". An encyclopedia includes all obtainable information, necessary or unnecessary. Therefore we should stop the removal of these charts and bring them back.

Proposer: Deadline: November 20, 2017, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) Per proposal.

Oppose

 * 1) Those charts don't give any information, they only show similarities between games. I don't see how they help to convey information and agree that they are (apologies in advance) unnecessary. If you can tell me how they are useful, I'll consider changing my vote.
 * 2) These charts are incredibly unwieldy and they make a shoddy attempt at comparing two different types of gameplay. It's uninformative, a messy way to organize comparisons, and simply writing similarities and comparisons in prose format is far more useful to the leader than creating a confusing table that lists elements that do not have anything in common with each other at all. Our gameplay sections in the way the articles are written are fine and are better than what they used to be.
 * 3) Per Baby Luigi.
 * 4) - These doesn't really seem useful in the least.

Comments
Your edit link is fouled up. To get it to display the word This, remove the  and replace it with a space. Right now, the link not only looks wrong, it doesn't work right. 15:55, 13 November 2017 (EST) P.S. I noticed that your were trying to fix the  issue. That's a glitch that shows up all the time. To fix it, just throw some sort of code under the header. A colon works nicely, since it then doesn't actually show up on the page, but the header works right.

I kind of get why someone would want a quick 'n' easy way to check which Mario Tennis games (for an off-the-cuff example) allow mirro matches, but man, not like this. Ugly, IMAX-wide charts that only get uglier and bigger the more games are released. --Glowsquid (talk) 21:05, 13 November 2017 (EST)

Online Flash games
We currently have little coverage on official Flash-powered games used by Nintendo to promote their games in the past. In fact, the only relevant thing here is the Barrel-Blastapalooza page, which I wrote and nobody seemed to mind, but when a bunch of other games were added to the Mario games nav template, they got removed by someone stating that they need to be discussed first.

Many of these games were listed in a selection on Nintendo's website (link: https://web.archive.org/web/20070911004647/http://www.nintendo.com/arcade).

Under 's guidance, I decided to make a proposal dedicated to the matter. Should we give official Flash games the same treatment as full-fledged games? Should there be a separate template to include them all?

I visualise three options:
 * 1) Each Flash game could receive its own page. I strongly recommend this to be done because I consider these games to be games after all, no matter if they are mere advertisments. Donkey Kong Country: Barrel Maze is an example of a game that seems to stand on its own without a relation to a particular game, and if it is to have an article, the other games should too.
 * 2) Info on Flash games could simply be incorporated in one big article. This would mean merging Barrel-Blastapalooza with said article. I'm not keen on the idea, but it could be a workaround for games that have become unavailable, whereabout information is scarce.
 * 3) The Flash games should not be covered. I obviously don't agree with this option, since we're talking official material.

Proposer: Deadline: November 25, 2017 23:59 GMT

Make separate pages for Flash games

 * 1) per proposal.
 * 2) Per proposal.
 * 3) Per proposal.
 * 4) I don't see why we shouldn't cover them, so per proposal.
 * 5) Per all.
 * 6) They're games. They're official. Hence, we cover them. Per all.
 * 7) Some of them might look simple and thin in content when compared to other videogames, but they're still games licensed by Nintendo and I guess the content there should be anyway enough to make a page for each one of them, as Barrel-Blastapalooza showed.
 * 8) Per all. (I had no idea that Nintendo used Flash games.)
 * 9) Per all.

Present the games in a comprehensive article

 * 1) Considering Flash games are smaller than full-fledged games, this seems like a workable option.
 * 2) This isn't a bad choice either.  After all, it still covers the information.

Comments
@Super Radio: My suggestion to make a proposal wasn't over wheter the flash games should get their own pages (it's offishul material and nobody has objected) but rather wheter they should be listed alongside "real" games on templates or rounded up in their own ghetto (personally I favor the later solution). --Glowsquid (talk) 19:15, 18 November 2017 (EST)
 * I'd personally vouch for them appearing on Template:MarioGames and the like. If they're official, we might as well treat them officially (and if the Donkey Kong slot machine is already on the template, I think they'll be in good company). At the very least, we could have a computer games template and lump in the edutainment games with the flash games. 22:00, 18 November 2017 (EST)
 * @Glowsquid: I know, and I did ask in this proposal if web games should have their separate template. However, I wanted a proposal to discuss the whole matter of Flash games, as it was requested by Lindsay151 to happen. I agree with Time Turner; there should be a template with all PC games like Mario's Time Machine and Mario's Missing, which could include Flash-based games. Although Flash is a computing platform in itself, similar to any OS, the games in question were only meant to be playable on a PC via web browser (any sort of emulation notwithstanding). -- 05:02, 19 November 2017 (EST)

One thing I am not sure of is what genres are some of these games fit in. DK: King of Swing -- Hurling for Distance, for example: it plays very similarly to the Yetisports games, if anyone's ever heard of them, but I can't find a professional term to describe this particular genre, other than "distance games". Are they just called action games? Well, you certainly can't compare them to. What do you think? -- 07:57, 19 November 2017 (EST)