MarioWiki:Proposals

Writing guidelines
None at the moment.

New features
None at the moment.

Remove the eleventh featured article/list standard
"11. [An article must] be of reasonable length and not marked as a stub."

This is the eleventh and final standard that must be followed for featured articles and featured lists, as described on Featured articles, and it is completely unnecessary. For starters, it is too vague to be of any practical use, and it would be difficult to use our current featured articles for comparison since they have wildly different sizes. Mt. Teapot, Mystic Forest, Mario Kart: Double Dash!!, and Mario Sports Superstars clearly all have different lengths, and yet they're all featured articles. If we tried to be strict and set a minimum character count or word count, then we're only going to promote articles that have been stretched and padded out solely to meet the minimum count. Needless to say, that is bad. With that in mind, why should we look at the length of an article to judge its quality? There are plenty of articles that are long, but they haven't been featured because they're missing information or their writing isn't good or their images are blurry or they have an improvement tag or for a myriad of other reasons based directly on the article's content, all of which are already covered by the other featured article standards. An article's length has next to nothing to do with its content and quality, so why should it be used to judge articles that, and I quote, "represent the best the Super Mario Wiki has to offer"?

Finally, there's already a proposal that discusses lowering the size requirement for featured articles (which was also my original idea apparently although I genuinely don't remember it), and it passed. Since the proposal was four years ago, it's hard to see how much of it is still in effect today, but my proposal clearly hasn't come from nowhere, and this is to say nothing of the recent forum post and the replies therein that inspired me to make this proposal. Simply put, the eleventh standard is too vague to be useful and is redundant with the other standards, and that is why I want it to be removed.

Proposer: Deadline: June 11, 2017, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) Per my proposal.
 * 2) - Per proposal.
 * 3) Sure. Per all.
 * 4) This rule really has no purpose. Featured articles are about quality, not length. If a stub is a good article, it should still be featured. There is absolutely no reason why this rule should not be removed. Additionally, if there is a proposal that passed for this 4 years ago, then this proposal doesn't need to be here. Remove the rule, end of story.
 * 5) Per proposal.

Oppose

 * 1) The purpose of the Featured Articles system is to be applied to the best articles on the wiki. There are many articles that are very well-written and that meet all the requirements, but shouldn't be featured because they are very short and therefore cannot be the best articles on the wiki. I think an article needs to be long enough to be featured, but there should not be a specific number of bytes because articles vary due to images, tables, etc. and reasonable length can vary between different types of articles. I support 's page. I agree that the rule should be changed but not removed.
 * 2) Strong oppose: This entire proposal has its foundation on a logical fallacy. Honestly, I think removing featured article size requirements altogether would be disastrous for Featured Articles in MarioWiki. It's far better to revise the guideline that outright remove it all together. This is really a sledgehammer situation to a problem that can easily be solved through compromise. Also, per my comments below.
 * 3) Per Baby Luigi. Her point has motivated me enough to change my vote. Change it, but don't outright remove it. Even if an article was featured as a stub, the very little information on it would be contradictory to the purpose of featured articles.
 * 4) Changing my vote. Per Baby Luigi. The rule should be changed, not removed. (I was a bit confused when I supported. :P)
 * 5) Per Baby Luigi. I have changed my mind, as I agree that it is better to change the rule than remove it completely.
 * 6) Per Baby Luigi.

Comments
So, to confirm, articles of any size would be able to become featured as long as they meet the other ten requirements, right? -- 21:46, 3 June 2017 (EDT)
 * I'll agree with Steve on this point. 22:00, 3 June 2017 (EDT)

@YoshiFlutterJump: The proposal linked to is referring to decreasing the the size an article needs to be to become an Featured Article, not about removing the rule, so this proposal still is necessary in order to remove the rule. Also, stubs cannot become featured articles, as a featured article cannot be tagged with any sort of improvement tags, which includes. -- 14:35, 4 June 2017 (EDT)

@Supermariofan67: Why can't a short article be the best? If it follows all of the other standards to a T, I frankly don't see why the content should be outright ignored. What about its length says anything about the article itself? 16:27, 4 June 2017 (EDT)

I'll try to rebuke several things brought up in this proposal.

If that were the case, the Featured Article nomination would easily fail because it doesn't pass the "well-written" rule that is put up there easily for that reason, and therefore, would not be fit as a Featured Article. This is a strawman of imposing a minimum size guideline, and obviously, we're not going to feature articles that are flowery or padded out just for the sake of meeting just one rule out of the rest of rules that are there to keep things in check. It's like badly formatting images just so the article can meet the image requirement. A minimum size requirement rule assumes that the article is already well-written and covers everything about the subject. My idea is to make it, y'know, a guideline. Have say 2,000 words give or take 100 or 50 or whatever.
 * If we tried to be strict and set a minimum character count or word count, then we're only going to promote articles that have been stretched and padded out solely to meet the minimum count.

I'd argue that length is an element of quality for an article to be featured on MarioWiki, just like how something should be well-written or something should have high quality images to be considered to be featured. We feature articles because they provide meaningful, detailed content, they represent the best MarioWiki has to offer. The best means that all factors have to be taken into account, and for this, we're not looking at just its length as you're implying. Many articles have barriers to prevent them from passing to be featured on the main page, even if they're written the best they could. If they lack images because they're too obscure to be found, they can't be featured. Shorter articles have their length as their barrier of entry, and this barrier prevents us from calling any article the "best" on MarioWiki. There's plenty of fish in the sea for MarioWiki, and having a minimum size limit rule picks out only the best and biggest fish, which is supposed to be the Featured Article's original purpose. There's a huge reason that most Featured Articles are long and detailed, it's because they provide content in both size and quality, and there's a reason shorter articles like Culex are in the vast minority. And finally, this argument fails because it's a false dichotomy. This is not a binary problem, an article can be BOTH large and have quality content, it's what separates the longer FAs from the very, very short ones, and what I think is a huge quality difference between the two.
 * With that in mind, why should we look at the length of an article to judge its quality?

The proposal Time Turner linked to looks really flimsy to my eyes today, I really wouldn't cite it for serious reasons. Also, in my thread, most responses were against the Good Articles idea, and no one has bothered even refuting my comments on how quantity can be linked to quality if you think about it. I'd also per Glowsquid's comment in that thread, "It's like, if you think there's a minimum length needed for front page exposure, that's fine, and it's a principle nearly every print media operates on, but "featuring" content will always be exclusionary in nature." Removing a minimum word limit is not how print media operates on and we shouldn't ignore why they have a minimum word count, aside from using false dichotomy arguments that quality and quantity have to be separate qualities of an article. 16:59, 4 June 2017 (EDT)
 * I've messaged Steve so that he can participate directly in this discussion. 20:18, 4 June 2017 (EDT)

I think the "stub" part could be removed, as that seems to also fall under Rule 5. "There are plenty of articles that are long, but they haven't been featured because they're missing information or their writing isn't good or their images are blurry or they have an improvement tag or for a myriad of other reasons based directly on the article's content, all of which are already covered by the other featured article standards." In this case, then they should remain unfeatured. Not because of the length, but because they should be tagged for improvement or the images need to be replaced, etc. I agree padding should be removed when noticed, but if they have other problems, then length isn't the issue. I do think articles should have length to them, for example, nothing like Water Bomb and has headers that describe what the subject is, infoboxes if needed, images, etc. However, length should probably be of the lowest priority when it comes to article content, but still be considered. If there isn't anything more to add, then there's nothing more to add. Not sure how I'm voting on this, but just putting in what I think. 22:42, 4 June 2017 (EDT)
 * Really, the issue of prioritizing length all depends on the article itself. When it comes to being detailed about media, a longer length should just come naturally as a result of being comprehensive and detailed. I do agree that good writing and formatting should be stressed over length, but length cannot be ignored outright either, which is what this proposal is proposing to ignore, as people here think quality and quantity are two mutually exclusive aspects of a Featured Article when they're not at all. 23:02, 4 June 2017 (EDT)

I am going to bring up the Bible. I know not every one believes it, but it is one of the largest books and it is considered one of the bests. So, this does show quality and quantity to be near equal. But, let me show you two different things. The first is the incomplete Bible. This Bible is a little less than the Bible, but you wouldn't know that unless you compared them. This incomplete Bible drops in quality, too. The second is child Bible. This may sound like an incomplete Bible, but the difference is it is meant for children. It has the quality of the Bible it comes from without the quantity. The only time quality and quantity aren't related. Now to translate this to articles. There will be long articles with good quality, and long articles with no good quality. If we bring in short articles of good quality, they won't make much difference. And, by the way, there would be an indirect length standard. Why? We would not want a whole article or a lot of it on the front page, which would only happen if it is just an intro. 22:42, 4 June 2017 (EDT)

Changes
None at the moment.

Miscellaneous
None at the moment.