Talk:Monty Mole

Are the moles in Moleville Monty Moles, or just plain old Molepeople? I wasn't sure if I should add them here or they merit their own article Almighty Rajah 14:40, 2 August 2006 (EDT)
 * They are a seperate people. Perhaps Mole folk could be used as a good article title... -- Son of Suns

Just to clarify, those weren't Monty Moles that handed out prizes. They were referred to with another name, but I can't remember it offhand. At any rate, it's probably not a Monty Mole, because very few enemies in the Mushroom Kingdom appear at all in the Beanbean Kingdom. . . Bob-omb is the only one I can remember. Waluigi Freak 99 20:28, 9 September 2006 (EDT)

Discussion from Talk:Chubby
What is the source for this name? I thought they were just regular Monty Moles. -- Son of Suns


 * The Instruction Manual for Mario Kart 64 says under the Moo Moo Farm description clearly states that the mole's name is Chubby.
 * Waluigi Freak 99 20:06, 9 September 2006 (EDT)


 * PS: It's easy to get the two mixed up, since, in the Moo Moo Farm remake in Mario Kart DS, they were called Monties, but in Mario Kart 64, it's called Chubby.
 * Waluigi Freak 99 20:09, 9 September 2006 (EDT)


 * So wouldn't the second name be canon, as it is the most updated version? Regardless, perhaps this information could be added to the Monty Mole page. I don't think it is significant enough to receive it's own article. If this info is added to Monty Mole page, you can say that the Monty Moles in this game were referred to as Chubbies. -- Son of Suns


 * True. OK.  Go ahead and delete it.  I'll add the info to the Monty Mole page.
 * Waluigi Freak 99 20:18, 9 September 2006 (EDT)

Deleted OK, it's gone. Information to Monty Mole added. Waluigi Freak 99 20:29, 9 September 2006 (EDT)

In the official Nintendo Power guide (1997) simply calls them moles and mole holes, though it's safe to assume that they are Monty Moles, the common enemy first found in SMW. Wayoshi ( T&middot;C&middot;@ ) 23:38, 9 September 2006 (EDT)

Mario Party Series
Didn't monty moles appear in mario party games?

Sometimes, I've only seen them in Mario Party 7, they are in two mini-games, and one hosts a coin-giveaway in Pyramid Park.

Oh, yeah. They appear in a mini-game in Mario Party 6 called....called..... Mole-It

It's actually Mole-it!, and such information is already discussed in their respective places. Irony, no?

Didn't they also appear in Monty's Revenge?

Tattle
Why is there no Paper Mario tattle?

Be bold and add it in there.-- 13:12, 4 October 2009 (EDT)

Split Undergrunt from Monty Mole
In the offical PRIMA game guide for Super Mario Galaxy and it's sequel these enemies were listed as "Undergrunts". Not "Monty Mole". Not "some kind of mole speicies", Undergrunt. Undergrunt Gunners have their own page. So why don't Undergrunts?

Proposer: Deadline: August 3 2010, 23:59

Support

 * 1) Per me.
 * 2) This makes sense. I doubt Undergrunts are Monty moles
 * 3) I am Zero! Per all. Zero signing out.
 * 4) Per all, they look different. First, they have helmets. Second, they have different colors. Third, Undergrunt's eyes are open, and the Monty Mole's are closed. Always. Also, they DO different. Monty Moles pop out, while Undergrunts dig underground.
 * 5) Even if they were Monty Moles they're totally different.
 * 6) Definitly, per everyone
 * 7) Per all.
 * 8) Per proposal.

Super Paper Mario
Did they really not appear in Super Paper Mario? Or haven't they simply not been added yet? I'm asking because there are sprites of Monty Mole in the game: http://www.spriters-resource.com/other_systems/superpapermario/sheet/26974 It could be added as trivia if you think it's not worth being in the article. --Nelde 14:48, 17 January 2011 (EST)
 * It appears so. I think those sprites might be fake. The body style of Monty is very different than in other artwork of him that is confirmed official.
 * I have no doubt that they are real. I also found them in RetrieverII's directory: http://www.hocuspocus.taloncrossing.com/rii/pm3/Unused/ He ripped those textures straight from the game's data. I think it's more plausible that the different body style you mentioned comes from the fact that they didn't make it into the final game, although for me they don't look very different... --Nelde 16:00, 17 January 2011 (EST)
 * Then it probably was removed and it should be mentioned that Monty appeared in the beta version but was removed.

Paper Mario
According to this video, the palette-swapped Monty Moles in Flower Fields are called Flower Choropū in the Japanese version. That should probably be mentioned here. --Kahran042 07:37, 21 April 2011 (EDT)

I would agree with you, but I can't read Japanese. Perhaps someone else who can read Japanese can confirm this? If you feel this is an accurate translation, you can add it to the article.-- 11:19, 4 July 2011 (EDT)

Copied from Wikipedia
I notced that the very first paragraph is copied from Wikipedia. Here is a link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recurring_enemies_in_the_Mario_series#Monty_Mole

I attempted to change the text so that it would not appear to be so similar, but that seems to have been undone. So... here is the text I propose. Anyone care to change what we have to something like I've written?

Monty Moles (also known as Gophers' in the Super Mario World TV series) are moles that appear in several Mario games; first appearing in Super Mario World and then in later titles like Super Mario Galaxy and New Super Mario Bros. Wii. In each game their attacks will vary. In earlier games they pop up out of gopher holes and chase the player. In later games they pop up and throw rocks before burrowing back into their holes, like a coward. Monty Moles have been given major roles, for instance in Super Mario Sunshine they acted as bosses. Two of them can be encountered, both using a cannon to attack Mario with Bullet Bills and Bob-ombs. As such, Monty Moles appear to be technologically savvy.


 * It isn't copied from wikipedia, and your edit was reverted because it didn't improve the grammar much, if any, and removed a good deal of content that belonged at the top of the article. The article is fine as it is.

Split the Monty Mole variant in Flower Fields in Paper Mario from Monty Mole
I created this proposal due to a thread on the forum. I recommend checking the thread out first before reading this proposal.

There are multiple reasons why I want to split the Monty Moles that appear in Flower Fields from this article. First off, the Monty Moles in Flower Fields have a different appearance then the Monty Moles in Mt. Rugged, as well as different stats and different tattles. Secondly, in Japan, Paper Mario's country of origin, they have different names, indicating that they are supposed to be different characters. Third, this has been done before at least once. Dry Bones (Teehee Valley) was created since it had a difference appearance and different stats than the other Dry Bones in Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga, as well as a different name in Japan. I think Piranha Plant (Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door) is also an example, but I'm still confused. Yes, there were the failed proposals to split the color variants of Klobber and Krochead, but the only difference was appearance and actions. Since Paper Mario is an RPG rather than a side-scroller, we have more to work with, like stats and the enemy description (or Tattle, as it's called in the game). Yes, there are other RPG enemies that have variants but are not split, like the two Chuck Guys in Superstar Saga, but I think that's due to nobody bothering to make a proposal. Now that I've rambled, let me set down the choices: Split the Flower Fields Monty Mole, or do nothing.

Proposer: Deadline: August 1, 2012, 23:59 GMT

Split

 * 1) Per proposal.
 * 2) Per him.
 * 3) Per proposal.
 * 4) - Per proposal (and by extension, per what I said in the original thread).
 * 5) Per all.
 * 6) We have seperate articles for the Dry Bones in TeeHee Valley and normal Dry Bones. Per all.
 * 7) Per proposal, and Walkazo in the comments.

Comments
Just for the record, yes, Piranha Plant (Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door) is another example of the "whatever language makes the most sense is the ones we use" approach to splits and merges. It got its own page because its Japanese name is unique (Killer Pakkun, rather than Pakkun Furawā), letting us act on the other unique aspects (unusually strong, very specific location). Pale Piranha is the opposite: it had the same Pakkun Furawā Japanese name, however its unique English name let us keep it split to reflect the fact that it doesn't look anything like a normal Piranha Plant. - 16:56, 18 July 2012 (EDT)

I'm not going to be able to create the article due to my vacation. I'll have access to a computer, but it's really not the greatest. GreenDisaster (talk) 17:30, 30 July 2012 (EDT)

The infobox
It's broken. Can someone fix it up? Jeansowaty (talk) 09:13, 4 August 2013 (EDT)Jeansowaty
 * Done. 09:29, 4 August 2013 (EDT)

Should we split the Mario & Luigi Presenters from Monty Moles?
It turns out that the moles introduced in Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga have a unique Japanese name as well:. Considering their peculiar appearance, name and role in the games, should we split them from Monty Moles?--Mister Wu (talk) 19:42, March 29, 2019 (EDT)
 * I wouldn't mind that too much. 20:54, March 29, 2019 (EDT)
 * Given the seeming pun off Pu (indicating it's some manner of variation) and the resemblance to Mega Mole, seems like a good course of action. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 22:27, March 29, 2019 (EDT)
 * They look different, act different, and have a different and unique Japanese name. It seems like they are intended to be separate species. I am for a split. Also, do they retain their appearance in the remake?  22:42, March 29, 2019 (EDT)
 * Kind of. They now resemble regular Monty Moles rather than Mega Moles, but they retain the red bowtie. 23:22, March 29, 2019 (EDT)
 * The questions we still need to answer are:
 * -Should we call these "Mole (Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga)" or "Presenter?"
 * -Should we include the remake info, since they now resemble regular ones?
 * -For that matter, should we take the difference in appearance into account at all, given this is the hideously off-model Superstar Saga we're talking about?
 * Doc von Schmeltwick (talk)
 * From what we've seen in the case of Batton and Nokottasu, the English names are pretty much placeholder names, and by the looks of it, in this case they are not capitalized. This means that we are not forced to use them as they are not meant to name the subject, just state what animal they resemble. We can of course still use them, but using Presenter from a lower priority source would be fine as well. The original proposed idea is to use Presenter, since this is just a discussion and not a proposal, if a page is made you can start a discussion in the talk page or even immediately create a proposal to use mole if you prefer said name.
 * Unlike in the case of Turtles/Nokottasu the moles of the remake still have the red bowtie as distinguishing trait, so I see no issue in including them in the page if it is created.
 * In terms of inferring the intentions of the designers (making a unique species versus just making off-model Monty Moles), I don't think we can really do that with the material we have, it's something the developers must tell us, considering how we are missing internal names of the remake as well; until more information surfaces we should limit ourselves to the descriptive part. The work is largely done for the original version, anyway.
 * These are the answers I'd give you right now, others can feel free to provide their own view, of course.--Mister Wu (talk) 20:00, March 30, 2019 (EDT)
 * Though, we already have two pages using the most usable generic descriptor possible. We have thorny flower and rubbery bulb. -- 07:03, April 1, 2019 (EDT)
 * These are different cases, due to the choices available, all of which are generic common names rather than more specific names. In any case, to be clear, I made the discussion using the Presenter name just because that name is consistent with the name proposed in the template and because that name is allowed. As I said before, mole is a valid name as well, a discussion and a proposal to use said name are both allowed once the page is created. We can also use mole right away, if everyone agrees on that. I'm personally neutral on the point of the name, as I'm more interested on whether the page should be made or not. As last point, in case there are doubts because of the new proposal, keep in mind that Presenter comes from a guide, not an internal filename, thus falling outside of the scope of said proposal as it is currently written.--Mister Wu (talk) 09:47, April 1, 2019 (EDT)
 * I'm neutral on Presenter, given that i know that it doesn't come from an internal filename. -- 09:54, April 1, 2019 (EDT)
 * My stance on file names isn't that they're automatically out, I just don't like them being used as proof for saying that something is something else that it isn't, as they generally represent a period of early development for an entity. For instance, rubbery bulb is not a mushroom in the final game. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 12:23, April 1, 2019 (EDT)
 * You also (much like me) don't like them being used to say that some of them are a subject's english name, while it's actually romanized. What do you think about cases like the "Beamer" enemies Anyways, this is getting off-topic, as well are talking about wether to split these Monty Moles or not. -- 13:09, April 1, 2019 (EDT)

If there aren't major issues, I think the following days I might create a page for the Presenters, basically following the content of the section we alraedy have as starting point (althoguh if I have time I'd add the sprites at least).--Mister Wu (talk) 21:42, April 8, 2019 (EDT)
 * In the end, I created the page. Sorry for the double uploads of sprites, by the way.--Mister Wu (talk) 21:04, April 10, 2019 (EDT)

Paper Mario series
The Super Paper Mario and Paper Mario: Sticker Star sections only talk about the fact that they are unused enemies and do not appear at all in normal gameplay. Should those be moved to Trivia or should a "other appearences" section be made? Or do we leave it as is? Mario Sakuraba (talk) 11:52, June 13, 2020 (EDT)
 * Per this proposal, scrapped/unused content should be put in an "Other appearances" section. -- 12:08, June 13, 2020 (EDT)

Quote
So, can the main quote be changed to this? It talks more about Monty Moles considering the main thing about them is that they're moles. "You never know what you're gonna find when you you start diggin'. That's what I love about it!"

- Monty Mole --Magma. (talk) 21:40, February 19, 2021 (EST)
 * I think the current one doesn't fit them too well, this one does much better. 22:00, February 19, 2021 (EST)

Super Mario Sunshine Monty Moles
Should the Monty Moles from Super Mario Sunshine have their own page since they unique from normal Monty Moles? Also Monty Tank has a separate page so why not the Sunshine Monty Moles? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 01:45, September 28, 2021 (EDT)
 * It's hard to say, the official Japanese names list states that they are currently considered Monty Moles, and effectively Super Mario Sunshine is notorious for its off-model designs, this being retroactively explained by Nintendo as stemming from the fact that they derive from the graffiti of Bowser Jr.. Keep in mind that we have Monty Tank separate because it's a boss. The only reason to split would be their different role, in case if you think the role is enough to warrant a split and the discussion here goes nowhere, you can make a proposal.--Mister Wu (talk) 19:24, September 28, 2021 (EDT)

Wait the Mario Sunshine Monty Moles are from Bowser Jr.’s graffiti? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 20:11, September 28, 2021 (EDT)
 * Pretty much every enemy from Super Mario Sunshine is. 20:12, September 28, 2021 (EDT)

Also the Mario Sunshine Monty Moles are bosses to MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 20:12, September 28, 2021 (EDT)

Also wasn’t that confirmed in the Japanese Super Mario Encyclopedia (Which maybe includes the bosses as well) MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 20:14, September 28, 2021 (EDT)

Also should something saying that the Mario Sunshine Monty Moles are Bowser Jr.’s graffiti be added? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 20:21, September 28, 2021 (EDT)
 * I think it would be redundant when it applies to everything, and I'm not sure I would consider these moles bosses. 20:27, September 28, 2021 (EDT)

Also wondering about the fact that the Sunshine Monty Moles return in Mario Power Tennis with the Gamecube/GBA era design? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 22:38, September 28, 2021 (EDT)

And also would it be better if the Mario Sunshine Monty Moles are notable members? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 18:16, September 29, 2021 (EDT)

Super Mario Sunshine Monty Moles: The Proposal
Should the Super Mario Sunshine Monty Moles be considered notable members to Monty Moles and getting their own page (Like Monty Tank). Or should they stay as is and just be on the Monty Mole page.

(Support is choosing the former option and opposing is choosing the latter option.)

(Also this is my first proposal so any fixes to grammar and such are welcome.)

Proposer: MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) Deadline: October 13, 2021, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) - They have enough differences and are original enough to feel like they should get their own page as unique Monty Moles (The Mario Sunshine Wiggler also has their own page so why not the Mario Sunshine Monty Moles).

Oppose

 * 1) SMS Wiggler is a bad example. It's Japanese name is "Boss Hana-chan", meaning "Boss Wiggler", so it's actually a "boss" variant along the lines of Boss Brolder or Boss Sumo Bro. We split it because of that, not just because it looks different than a normal Wiggler. SMS Monty Moles are just Monty Moles, and their design isn't even that far off from their usual design compared to other enemies' SMS incarnations.
 * 2) - Per 7feetunder. I'd also like to note that while the "Chorobe" developmental name seems to indicate it was a variant/notable at some point in the design process, in the finished product, it is treated simply as a Monty Mole/Choropoo.
 * 3) Monty Tank isn't a good example either since that has its own name in both Japanese and English and is a notable individual. Per all.
 * 4) Per all.
 * 5) Per all.

Comments
Thanks for the feedback but the polls aren’t over yet. Also sorry for the bad examples. Also also I was wondering your thoughts with the Mario Power Tennis Monty Moles in cannons? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 18:27, September 30, 2021 (EDT)
 * If anything that's just further proof they're the same. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:31, September 30, 2021 (EDT)