MarioWiki:Proposals

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r149/Deadringerforlove/dessert1.jpg A proposal section works like a discussion page: comments are brought up and replied to using indents (colons, such as : or ::::) and all edits are signed using the code. This page observes the No-Signature Policy.

How To
 * 1) Actions that users feel are appropriate to have community approval first can be added by anyone, but they must have a strong argument.
 * 2) Users then vote and discuss on the issue during that week. The "deadline" for the proposal is one week from posting at:
 * 3) *Monday to Thursday: 17:00 (5pm)
 * 4) *Friday and Saturday: 20:00 (8pm)
 * 5) *Sunday: 15:00 (3pm)
 * 6) Every vote should have a reason accompanying it.
 * 7) At any time a vote may be rejected if at least three active users believe the vote truly has no merit or was cast in bad faith. However, there must be strong reasons supporting the invalidation.
 * 8) " # " should be added under the last vote of each support/oppose section to show another blank line.
 * 9) All proposals that end up in a tie will be extended for another week.
 * 10) If a proposal has more than ten votes, it can only pass or fail by a margin of three votes. If a proposal reaches the deadline and the total number of votes for each option differ by two or less votes, the deadline will be extended for another week.
 * 11) Any proposal that has three votes or less at deadline will automatically be listed as "NO QUORUM." The original proposer then has the option to relist said proposal to generate more discussion.
 * 12) No proposal can overturn the decision of a previous proposal that is less than 4 weeks (28 days) old.
 * 13) Proposals can only be rewritten or deleted by their proposer within the first three days of their creation. However, the proposer can request that their proposal be deleted by a Sysop at any time, provided they have a valid reason for it.
 * 14) All proposals are archived. The original proposer must take action accordingly if the outcome of the proposal dictates it. If it requires the help of a Sysop, the proposer can ask for that help.
 * 15) There shouldn't be proposals about creating articles on a underrepresented or completely absent subject, unless there is major disagreement about whether the content should be included. To organize efforts about completing articles on missing subjects, try creating a PipeProject.
 * 16) Proposals can not be made about System Operator promotions and demotions. Sysops can only be promoted and demoted by the will of Bureaucrats.
 * 17) No joke proposals. Proposals are serious wiki matters, and should be handled professionally. Joke proposals will be deleted on sight.

The times are in EDT (UTC -4:00), and are set so that the user is more likely to be online at those times (after work/school, weekend nights). If a proposal is added on Saturday night at 11:59 PM EDT, the deadline is the next Saturday night at 8:00 PM. If it is a minute later, the deadline is a day plus 15 hours (Sunday), as opposed to a day minus 4 hours.

CURRENTLY: , 27 2024 (EDT)

New Features
''None at the moment.

Remove Quote of the Day from the main page
Quote of the Day uses a processor heavy combination of the &lt;choose&gt; and &lt;DPL&gt; tags that increases loading time significantly. In my tests, it took an average of 7 seconds longer to load the page with QOTD than without, but compare for yourself here and here. Other than those seven seconds, I don't see that it adds much to the page. It could be moved to a dedicated page, if people still want to use it.

Proposer: Deadline: August 7, 2009, 20:00

Support

 * Whoah, looks like you're right. Much faster for me, too, without the quote. Plus, I agree with you that the quote is not exactly necessary. So yeah, get rid of it.
 * 1) True,very true.
 * 2) - Per 2257
 * 3) Per all.
 * 4) Yoshi! I HATE the slowness. Not really interesting either since there are quotes on character pages anyway. Plus then we could have the calendar back.
 * 5) I was wondering why it took so long to load! The quotes must go! I HAVE FURY!
 * 6) The quotes should absolutely go. I've always wondered why loading the Main Page takes so long.
 * 7) Per Twentytwofiftyseven.
 * 8) Per 2257.
 * 9) What Yoshi Boo 118 said. Also per all.
 * 10) i am NOT a patient person!!!
 * 11) Per all, plus, the quotes often show different quotes jammed together (Maama!Wheee!No No no! -BabyLuigiBabyLuigiBabyLuigi) or something like that, which is really annoying.
 * 12) Per Luigifreak, I don't understand the double quotes, and the combined words. Also, many users have the quote of the day on their page.
 * 13) &mdash; Per 2257.
 * 14) - its not even quote of the day, its some random quote every time. Per all.
 * 15) - I don't get why they call it the quote of the day. Per S-Y.
 * 16) - Per all. I can't believe something I hardly noticed is taking up all that time.
 * 17) Per all. I hate how long it takes to load the main page.
 * 18) - So thats why it's so slow! BTW the quote of the day is kind of pointless.
 * 19) - See comments.
 * 1) - See comments.

Oppose

 * 1) I don't really care how long it takes to load, cause I'm a patient person. Plus, I think it's fun to see what quote will be next.
 * 2) - Patience is a virtue, per my comments.
 * 3) - I enjoy seeing the daily quotes, and I'm patient enough to wait an additional few seconds. I say it stays.
 * 4) - Oh my gosh!  There are a couple seconds difference!  That is so harmful!

Comments
BTW, I just tried loading both versions of the main page a few times. The one without the quote always took only 4 seconds. With the quote, there were durations ranging from 25 seconds to 1 minute and 35 seconds! That's a massive difference. Please keep that in mind when voting.
 * Both pages took ages to load for me, but the MarioWiki mainpage was a little bit faster (probably by the time it took me to click on the second link). Considering the wiki's infinite slowness, it doesn't make much of an impact. - 16:10, 31 July 2009 (EDT)


 * Well, i can say, for people who reaches the wiki via devices that are not Computers (such as the Wii, cellphones....), this is a great advantage step for joining the Wiki, when i try entering the Wiki through my Wii, it really takes long, (from 20 secs. to 2 minutes!) and without the Quote of the Day it loaded in just 7 seconds.
 * Writing articles without a keyboard on the Wii sounds unrealistic though. -
 * Actually, the Wii supports keyboards. I don't know if doing so allows you to view more than 2 lines of text, though.
 * Hmm.... There's no difference for me writing from a Computer or from my Wii but while writing (opening the Keyboard screen, and yes, then, using a USB Keyboard), also, if you wanna see more than 2 lines in the screen just scrool up or down, but i think Wii Editing thing is out of topic tho, i used the Wii as my option, since i do most of my edits by using my Wii.

on a different note, if it is a quote of the day, it should not keep changing!!! Lu-igi board


 * well, i dont know where to vote, at one side, i always take my time to read the quote, but on the other hand, what will the people coming here for first time will think? that the wiki gets really slow? well, it gets, but thats not the point.

First thing: you should be comparing a copy of the main page on a user subpage (with the quote on there) vs. the user subpage with no quote. Comparing it to the actual main page might not be fair because it is already getting so much more traffic than the user subpage. And secondly, when voting, keep in mind that guests (people who are not logged in--aka 99% of our visitors) see a cached version of the main page. A new quote is not generated for them every time they visit the main page because a static page is shown (which is why the quote is called quote of the day and not quote of the moment--because the same one is shown for a while before the cache is regenerated). That's all. -- 21:34, 2 August 2009 (EDT)


 * I'd like to note that doing it this way, it still takes an average of five more seconds to load with QOTD than without.


 * Just letting you know, i just made a test joining from a Laptop and a Wii.... As Twentytwofiftyseven says: It still takes more than 5 seconds with the Quote, also,while i joined from the Wii, i noticed a really great difference in time. Less than 10 seconds to load the main page. (With the QOTD, a minimal 20 seconds were needed, or a maximum of 5 minutes)
 * TO ALL OPPOSERS:Yes, I do agree, patience is a good quality to have, and many of you might have it, but some of our guests might not, and as Porple said above, guests make up a majority of people who view the wiki. If they find the length of time it takes to load too long for their liking, they could go to another Mario website instead, therefore losing our traffic, and probably much worse, a possible contributor. So yes, loading time DOES matter.
 * Actually, as Steve said above, this doesn't apply to guests. They see a cached page that loads much more quickly.

As much as is one of my coding prides on this wiki, 7 seconds is a major difference. I hope we can still use it somewhere, maybe not...maybe just an example on how to do esoteric coding, maybe... also, per Luigifreak, the remedy to multiple quotes on the same page is still an issue.
 * Maybe you could fix it with multisecseparators?

To Opposers: If you have "patience", you would have the patience to go to the seperate page Twentytwofiftyseven was talking about. This proposal is just to remove it from the front page and move it to another page, not to remove it entirely. And besides, it may be a few seconds difference for some of you, but for other users, it may be several seconds difference or even minutes in some cases.

Remove Featured Image Template From Main Page
Well, I'm am removing my other proposal and replacing it with this. Although I don't think we should get rid of the F.I. completely, I think that we should instead put it on the 'Shroom, which I would be glad to put it under my section (The Music & Artwork Team). We could still have the voting, and we could possibly link to the voting page on the sidebar, but it should go off of the Main Page (it will reduce loading time). A link to what the page would look like after can be found here. Proposer: Deadline: Thursday, 13 August 2009, 17:00

Remove Template

 * 1) Per my reasons above.
 * 2) Sure, I'll support Super Mario Bros.!  Never really liked it.

Comments
I'm not sure. On the one hand, unlike the Featured Articles, what we're featuring here is NOT an achievement of our wiki and our editors, but rather of Nintendo, or whoever made the images. So the FIs are a bit pointless. On the other hand, I think they do make the main page more attractive, and we shouldn't undervalue that. They could attract new editors. If we wanted to clean the main page of all things that are not directly useful for the wiki, not much would be left. So I'd say, before removing the FIs, rather get rid of the Poll and Tournament thingies.


 * Also, the FI''s change weekly, and the Shroom monthly, so should we out the 4 images?

per Tucayo. the whole consept of the FI would need to change. You can't have a monthly FI that would kill it! Lu-igi board 16:59, 7 August 2009 (EDT)

Splits & Merges
''None at the moment.

FAQ transformation
OK, let's see, my second proposal, totally random section and the vote count is already 3-1. Anyways here is the proposal: I think the FAQ page is basically a large thing where users can read questions that they all ready know the answers to. On the FAQ talk page we have asking questions. I ask, why don't we put proposals on the Proposal talk page or FI noms on the FI talk page, why do we put it on the main page? I'll answer myself, because it's easier. Since it's easier, I propose we change the old FAQ into my new version (see here) so that users can actually ask their questions on the real Mariowikispace page!

Proposer: (but I give  permission to man it while I'm away) Deadline: July 31, 2009, 20:00 Extended: August 7, 2009, 20:00

Remake FAQ

 * 1) - Yes, I moved it here to eliminate the problem
 * 2) I am Zero! It will be a good idea with the correct set rules. And plus this will keep me busy from the poll selection page being discontinued for a little while, since the remake FAQ is sort of like the poll selection page, without an "oppose" section. You know how you have that "answer" area, well probably you can also put in a "Tip" or "Pointers" area just for users to give there extra info of what they usually do as a habit. Zero signing out.
 * 3) Per all.
 * 4) I very much like the example you showed. It is a much easier way to ask and answer questions than the previous FAQ.
 * 5) it's a good page for teaching new editors how to do stuff. p.s thanks for including me in the example :P
 * 6) Love the idea of an easier FAQ.I Think it would make everything a little less complicated.

Don't Remake FAQ

 * 1) -– I believe the FAQ is fine the way it is. Having a whole lot of answers to a question may be overwhelming to a new user.
 * It's called "Frequently Asked Questions", and as such it should be a collection of, well, frequently asked questions (plus the answers). Turning it into a "Ask your questions" system defeats the purpose: Users wouldn't check first if there's already an answer to their question, they would ask it right away. Too much work for everyone.
 * 1) - Per all. We vote on the main Proposal and FA pages because that's the point of those pages, whereas the FAQ page is, as Time Q said, an FAQ page, not a public Q&A - that's the talk page's job (just like the Proposal talk page is a Q&A about general Proposal stuff).
 * 2) Per all, and I find it pointless to have that new template as it is just like the talk page. There is no rule saying that there can't be multiple answers adding onto previous answers, so the multiple answers table will not encourage users to put multiple answers. In addition, there is usually only one answer per question, so the template will just take up space.
 * 3) Per Walkazo
 * 4) - Per Walkazo.
 * 5) - Per Walkazo.
 * 6) - Per Walkazo.
 * 7) - Per all.

Comments
I'm not sure I completely understand your proposal. If it passed, what would happen to the FAQ page we currently have? Where would we put the questions already answered on the page?
 * In the archives! That's how the archives would stop being a red link, then users could actually ask questions and other users could still get that glowing feeling of accomplishment by answering them. Now there is only one page to ask questions. Wait, do you think answered questions should go into the archive or just stay there?
 * Zero: Tell you what, I'll open a little thing on User talk:Marioguy1/Mariowiki:FAQ for any user to tell me how they think it should look; I'll have the agreed-on version on the User page.
 * Yoshario: I kind of agree with your logic but these are people we're talking about. I may not know much about people but I think one of their qualities is that they are not overwhelmed by more than one answer. If it were a cat or a dog I would understand but people are the most intelligent species on the planet (most of them anyways) and will not be overwhelmed by five or six answers.
 * If we use this system, we may also have a lot of repeat questions, whereas if we use a FAQ page, they would read the FAQ first. @Zero777 When we removed the poll one of our goals was to get users editing in the mainspace, and I don't think creating a whole new FAQ system would work. @Marioguy1 They still might get overwhelmed by repeating tips and answers. --
 * Yoshario: This is SMB, Marioguy 1 told me to handle all proposals-related stuff for him, including replying to questions. What I have to say on the matter is that perhaps we should make a rule not allowing repeat answers.

Wow that's a high level of opposition! Anyhow, @Yoshario: The repeat tips and answers will be added in gradually so that users will not be overwhelmed, while I agree with SMB's logic, you could see the talk page of my example for another version of what the FAQ could look like that would eliminate your problems. @Time Q: Well then those user's questions would be referenced to the previous question or they could be asked again. What's the problem with that? @Walkazo: Thanks for a name! It could be called a Questions and Answers page instead of a Frequently Asked Questions page! Anyhow, why can't it be a Q&A page? The FAQ page is so empty that a Q&A should be used just to fill it up with information because information is a good thing in a wiki. @Luigifreak: Remind me again what template you are talking about? I think you think my example is a template! Anyways, multiple answers is not a problem. Neither is space.

Marioguy: The template is the new FAQ you our proposing. I am saying, that generally, only ONE answer is put, so the table is unnecisary, as it's only purpose is for multiple votes, which it will not have. As for space, it's not a big deal, but the subheadings are unnecisary, as 1. The second section will never be used 2. there will be only one answer for the first section so why have them at all? I'm not saying it's a bad idea, I'ts just, If it a'int broke, don't fix it.

Marioguy: The FAQ page isn't "empty", it's concise, which is a good thing. Most people don't have the patience to read pages and pages of policies and rules, so having a comparatively short and straightforward FAQ page in place as a "how to" tutorial is a must. The whole "page" vs. "talk page" issue is a stupid reason to want to replace the FAQ page with something we already have. Why don't we just rename the FAQ's talk page as the "Q&A" page? (Like what we've done we did in the past to the Main Page's talk page, the "Community Portal".) Then all the question stuff is still together, nothing is removed, and the "stigma" there seems to be against talk pages gets to be quelled by the ritzy name. -
 * I personally like that idea, it's more of a compromise than a change. But how do we rename the talk page? Do we move it to another page in general? Also, what ever happened to the link on the sidebar that went to the Community Portal?
 * Good question. I can't remember why it was taken off the sidebar, I can't even find it in the sidebar's history.
 * We use PipePlaza as our "Community Portal". --
 * Heh, guess I should get with the times, eh? Anyway, I don't remember exactly how the Main Talk was renamed way back when, but I know it's doable. -
 * You add to the page.

Do Not Allow Newbies in Voting
When browsing the Luigi nomination page, I saw that many are fan votes of newbies who dont even know what a FA is! So I propose we delete votes of accounts 3 weeks or younger in ALL voting pages (Proposals, FA's, FI's...) becuase many of them ahve been here very few time to know how the wiki works, so we should wait until they know better.

Proposer: Deadline: Thursday, August 13th, 17:00 EDT

This is the support section

 * 1) - Per me, I suppose

This is the oppose section

 * 1) Tucayo, although I agree with you that it is very annoying to see terribly reasoned votes, this might scare off newbies. We already have rules on the Proposals page that eliminate the problem here. The Featured Images we can't help, as anybody can provide any reason, whether they are new or not. For the Featured Articles, there is no need to enforce these proposed measures as there is the remove vote feature (that is, for removing oppose votes), and for the support votes, all you need to do is oppose and the nomination can't pass.
 * 2) - While it can be annoying to see people join simply to vote on FAs or whatever, some of them will move on to become active users, and blocking them from voting may turn potential help away. The thought of discriminating against new users like this is wrong.
 * No, just no. As Walkazo said, this is wrong. Even if we could prevent some "useless" votes this way, we would punish lots of users who actually want to make constructive contributions to the wiki. Also, three weeks is a long time, Proposals last only for one week, so those users wouldn't have a chance to participate in them.
 * 1) - Per Walkazo
 * 2) - Per all. Whats the harm? Right now, newbies who vote on proposals and make uneducated decisions are vastly outnumbered by more experienced voters. Per SMB for articles..... and the images are just for fun. It is annoying for me too, but its not gonna hurt our wiki, right? In addition, I remember the community (That includes proposals and Fa's) was one of the reasons I joined, so this rule would have discouraged me.
 * 3) do you have no heart? per all Lu-igi board 16:55, 7 August 2009 (EDT)

Miscellaneous
None at the moment.