MarioWiki:Proposals

Writing guidelines
None at the moment.

New features
None at the moment.

Removals
None at the moment.

Add a section to Naming regarding technical restrictions
I'm surprised no one has talked in depth about this yet. Sure, we don't have that many technically restricted names, but we still have some, so I think we should set in stone a policy for these titles. Take the castle levels from Super Mario World as an example. "#1 Iggy's Castle" is located at "Iggy's Castle" rather than "1 Iggy's Castle"; while the former title is fine, it might still cause some initial confusion for the newer readers. Basically, what I'm proposing is that we start officially use closely-matched titles for subjects if the correct title is technically restricted.

A draft of the proposed text can be found here.

Also, if you're wondering, Porplemontage green-lighted this proposal.

Proposer: Deadline: April 5, 2018, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) Per proposal.
 * 2) - Per proposal.
 * 3) Per proposal.
 * 4) Per proposal.
 * 5) Per proposal.
 * 6) Sounds good to me! Per proposal.
 * 7) Considering that we can't use the actual name, the closest match surely makes sense.
 * 8) Per all, this just seems like the sensible thing to do anyway.
 * 9) Per all.
 * 10) The proposal is about allowing as many characters in the original title as possible, if the suggested title has technical issues. When such a case occurs, use the   MediaWiki Magic Word to correct the title.   in URLs are used for linking to headers in a page name, like this example. Even forcing URL encoding brings up an error.  I couldn't get MediaWiki to parse this normally, so a forced URL is used to demonstrate.

Comments
So if this succeeds, what will happen to the Iggy's Castle article? (Also, remind me for when I start my own franchise, to name a character "<>'' ," symbols included, just to mess with the ensuing wiki.) Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 02:04, 29 March 2018 (EDT)
 * It'll be moved to "1 Iggy's Castle", with the display title unchanged so it still shows the proper title. MediaWiki doesn't like certain symbols in page titles, so have fun with that hypothetical wiki if it comes ;) 11:09, 29 March 2018 (EDT)

Just thought about it but how about a notice template for such pages? -- 17:00, 29 March 2018 (EDT)
 * That's not needed unless even cannot display the correct title.  10:56, 31 March 2018 (EDT)

Give the seven boss Tikis from DKCR their own articles
Because the rest of their official names have just been discovered in a datamine of the original game.

Proposer: Deadline: April 5, 2018, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) Need I say more?
 * 2) These guys are like the Seven Notorious Koopalings.  Each one not only has a name, but is also a character and a boss.  It’s not quite like Gary or Johnson (whose articles SHOULD be deleted) or even the Sammer Guys.  The Tikis are characters—major boss characters at that, and not just minor NPCs.  One of them, Kalimba, even has a Smash 4 trophy.  And the fact that the Tikis only appear in a single DK game should not stop us from giving them articles.

Oppose

 * 1) A name, in and of itself, is not enough to substantiate having separate articles (see: List of Sammer Guys). Is there another reason they should have articles?
 * 2) - Per Time Turner. They may all have a name, but they aren't diverse enough (they all do the exact same thing) to justify individual articles.
 * 3) Per Time Turner.
 * 4) Per all. Plus, they're not even fought normally at all, which that case would guarantee articles.

Comments
I forgot to mention, but in order, they're called: Kalimba, Maraca Gang, Gong-Oh, Banjo Bottom, Wacky Pipes, Xylobone, and Cordian. BooDestroyer (talk) 18:07, 29 March 2018 (EDT)

@YoshiFlutterJump They are different from the Koopalings in that the Koopalings are: also, why should Gary or Johnson not have articles? They deserve articles as much as Otto or Heronicus. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 23:05, 30 March 2018 (EDT)
 * A: Bosses themselves
 * B: Characters with actual personality
 * Let me tell you one thing. The Seven Notorious Koopalings (that’s what Minion Quest calls them) hardly had personalities before Paper Jam (to the extent of having NO dialogue), and we had articles for them long before then.  While the Tikis are not bosses, they possess bosses and are key to the story.  As for your second point...minor NPCs shouldn’t get articles just because they have names.  The Tikis are not minor, though. - 23:18, 30 March 2018 (EDT)
 * Even just regarding Super Mario Bros. 3, the Koopalings had enough diversity to justify their own articles if the wiki was around then. They each had the same role, but different names and abilities. Regarding the SMB3 cartoon as well, they also had different personalities. The same cannot be said for these Tikis.
 * Gary and Johnson, according to Minor NPCs, their articles are valid. 23:23, 30 March 2018 (EDT)
 * Saying the Koopalings didn't have personalities before Paper Jam is outright wrong, remember their individual speech balloons in the SMB3 manual? The depictions in the cartoons and comics? Their pre-battle behavior in NSMBW? The Tikis all act exactly the same, and are only ever on screen for like 5 seconds each, and have no dialog. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 23:27, 30 March 2018 (EDT)

I fail to see how character personalities is any sort of viable argument against article creation. I can get on board with their extremely minor role and their appearance, but not their personality. 00:54, 31 March 2018 (EDT)

I should point out one thing: we don’t even have an article for them as a group. Tiki Tak Tribe just covers every enemy in the game, and is not devoted to the boss Tikis. At the very least, we need an article for them as a group. - 13:19, 31 March 2018 (EDT)

Smash Bros. Articles: What Stays and What Goes?
The previous Super Smash Bros. proposal allowed us to justify previous exceptions to Smash coverage (i.e. the stage hazards and Smash Taunt characters) and paved a path for future exceptions. After the discussion on the forums, this proposal will outline exactly what further exceptions will be made, as in which pages will be merged and which pages will remain intact. With that out of the way, let's dive in!


 * Fighters: No changes are planned.
 * Stages: No changes are planned.
 * Items: No changes are planned.
 * Bosses: The inconsequential bosses of Subspace Emissary, including Duon, Galleom, Meta Ridley, Porky, Porky Statue, and Rayquaza, will be merged to a page specifically for the mode's bosses. Tabuu and Ancient Minister remain separate due to significant relevance to the story, with Tabuu also being the final boss. By that same token, Crazy Hand, Master Hand, and Master Core will remain due to also being final bosses. Separately, Ridley will stay due to multiple appearances across more than one game.
 * Enemies: The Adventure Mode, Subspace Emissary, and Smash Run enemies will be merged into separate lists (i.e. "List of Smash Run enemies" and so on), exactly like the ones that existed previously.
 * Stage hazards: Despite my previous comment about stage hazards being exceptions, there are exceptions to that, including Dark Emperor, Flying Man, Metal Face, and Yellow Devil. These pages will be merged to the stages that they respectively appear in.
 * Assist Trophies: They will be merged to Assist Trophy, as it was previously.
 * Pokémon: They will be merged to Pokémon, as it was previously.
 * Moves: Special moves will be merged to the character that uses them (e.g. Mach Tornado, Drill Rush, Shuttle Loop, Dimensional Cape, and Galaxia Darkness will be merged to Meta Knight; for moves that are used by multiple fighters, the information will be split between them, such as with Shield Breaker), as it was previously. The exception to this is with moves performed by characters from the Mario franchise; they will remain separate.

Note that this proposal isn't completely exhaustive: there are scattered pages like List of Mii Outfits and List of bonuses in Super Smash Bros. that also deserve scrutiny, but considering the subtle differences between each of them, it'd be best to tackle those individually and not overburden this proposal. Still, there's plenty that's already being covered here. It's a lot to take in, but these are changes that should be taken for all the same reasons as before. It's disingenuous to treat the Super Smash Bros. series as if its Mario content is even close to that of existing crossovers with the franchise like Fortune Street and Mario & Sonic. The wiki should strive to reflect that.

Proposer:, with input from Deadline: April 9, 2018, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) Per proposal.
 * 2) Per proposal.
 * 3) Per proposal.
 * 4) Per proposal.
 * 5) Per proposal.
 * 6) Per proposal.
 * 7) Per proposal.
 * 8) Seems like the proposal is taking baby steps to get closer to the goal of having more limited coverage of SSB series. One day, I hope, it will be just be Mario-related content where the rest of Nintendo content (Solid Snake and Sonic too) is linked to either their respective NIWA wikis or specifically SmashWiki.
 * 9) I'm happy with these merges.
 * 10) Per everyone except Wildgoosespeeder.
 * 11) Sounds like a good idea. Per proposal. Although, moves related to Mario characters probably should stay separate. Just a thought.

Oppose

 * 1) The Bosses and enemies should stay separate from each other. Period. I will not be moved on that. They are different things with different biological categories. And why should we merge them? The Super Smash Bros. series is derivative of the Super Mario Bros. franchise. It's right there in the name. You want this all on SmashWiki? I've gotten viruses from the site before; I don't trust it. And merging stage hazards with stages makes little sense, as they are under the "Locations" category, and attempting to make an article overviewing two things of fundamentally different gameplay type invariably ends up as a cluttered cluster, because of the aforementioned icompatibility. All I see this doing is costing us a lot of information for arbitrary reasons. All, in all, very detrimental.

Comments
, if you have problems with malware or whatever on SmashWiki, take it up with, as he is the wiki owner, so that way future malware doesn't spread. Oh yeah, just because the name Super Smash Bros. is one word off from Super Mario Bros. doesn't make it a derivative series. In early development, it wasn't even going to have Nintendo characters.
 * OK, well by that logic we shouldn't cover aspects of Diddy Kong Racing, since it was, in early development, not going to have any Donkey Kong influence. I think the idea of "only pure Mario content" is bad, as it is a rather nebulous franchise, and to be honest a good amount of the other wikis suffer from extremely bad writing. This is, plain and simply, a bad idea, which will only have detrimental effects to the wiki. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:20, 2 April 2018 (EDT)
 * Really, Doc, don't insult the wikis that we're partnered with so casually. It's irrelevant to this proposal, and it completely disparages the work that has been put into them, including the work done by several users that write for this very wiki. Making broad generalizations does not help anyone. If you think that a particular page is poorly written, you have the ability to fix it yourself, but not every single page is like that. 18:31, 2 April 2018 (EDT)
 * Except several of them don't allow IP edits, period, and require making accounts on other sites to have an account on them. And have you seen the ad amounts on many of them? My poor browser will slow even worse than when I had to deal with Norton Security! "A good amount" isn't necessarily "broad," either, it is perhaps the most nonspecific phrase one can use. Anyways, the point is, I find this proposal so fundamentally flawed and misguided that I might give up hope on this place entirely if it goes through. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:36, 2 April 2018 (EDT)
 * Why did I forget to sign again? Stupid me. Anyways, I already feel we shouldn't be covering most of Donkey Kong's games since I feel we are robbing Donkey Kong Wiki site traffic, but I don't want to stir up that hive of bees again (*shutters at my talk page*). I've given up that idea and won't push that anymore. Let's try a different game example. -- 18:35, 2 April 2018 (EDT)
 * It works both ways, regardless of your bias. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:36, 2 April 2018 (EDT)
 * The example you gave me was one I would be in support of rather than against, which you were hoping I would be against. Has nothing to do with bias. I merely suggest a different game that I would be against not covering or shifting coverage elsewhere. -- 18:44, 2 April 2018 (EDT)
 * No, I know fully well about your feelings on the matter. OK, well how about that the original Donkey Kong was going to be a Popeye game? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:48, 2 April 2018 (EDT)

@Time Turner: Why would we merge all special moves to the character that uses them? Wouldn't that cause inconsistencies? 18:33, 2 April 2018 (EDT)
 * If you could clarify, what would be inconsistent? 18:34, 2 April 2018 (EDT)
 * Well, at the very least, shouldn't the special moves performed by Mario characters stay? 18:40, 2 April 2018 (EDT)
 * That slipped my mind. Considering past proposals, I think that it'd make sense to leave the moves performed specifically by Mario characters. I'll adjust the proposal. 18:54, 2 April 2018 (EDT)
 * I personally would think that the ones with a non-Smash equivalent, like the Fireballs, should probably stay. I personally have no problem with the idea of merging the moves, as those are less concrete and more abstract things than the enemies and bosses. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:42, 2 April 2018 (EDT)

Then shouldn't this be a multi-option proposal covering how many, if any, changes should be made. After all, I'm supportive of all but one change. 18:56, 2 April 2018 (EDT)

Do not create Super Mario Odyssey sublocation pages
The current Super Mario Odyssey Kingdom nav-template has (mostly red) links for all the named locations within every kingdom in the game. I think each one of these locations getting an article is a bad idea.

While some of these locations are pretty big and unique, like the Deep Woods and Snowline Circuit, most of them are simply extentions of the main world or too small and not so relevant by themselves, and presenting them disconnected from each other would make these pages feel short on content. Island in the Sky (Bowser's Castle), Rocky Mountain Summit (Forgotten Isle), Heliport (New Donk City), Glass Palace (Bubblaine) and Salt-Pile Isle (Mount Volbono) are some examples of locations which are, at most, glorified platforms with a Checkpoint Flag on/near them. There are also three Tostarena Ruins locations, three Water Plaza locations, two Iron Path locations; having an article for each one is unnecessary as they are part of a whole rather than defined places (which is also the case of things like the Waterfall Basin and Stone Bridge in Fossil Falls and the Tostarena Northwest Reaches).

I believe there is enough space for information about these areas in the actual kingdom articles. An overview (what it is, where it is on the map, general layout, what enemies and characters are there) can be written in five lines or so. We do not have articles for Super Mario Galaxy planets, not even for the giant, named ones like the Haunted Mansion in Ghostly Galaxy. Even if (unlike the planets) the SMO locations are named in-game, they are as relevant to their game as planets are to SMG.

So, I propose:
 * Do not create any Odyssey sublocation article: Put the information about these spots in the kingdom articles only.
 * Create separate articles for notable sublocations only: Another possibility is to create separate pages for well-defined structures and areas which are unique within their kingdom: the Top-Hat Tower, Tostarena Town, Tostarena Ruins (as a whole), Jaxi Ruins, Inverted Pyramid, Deep Woods, Water Plaza (as a whole), Underground Power Plant, Snowline Circuit, Underground Moon Caverns keep/get their articles. An overview of every location (notable or not) would go on the main article.
 * Leave everything as it is: Create articles for every Checkpoint Flag location of the game.

Proposer: Deadline: April 9, 2018, 23:59 GMT

Do not create any Odyssey sublocation article

 * Per my proposal.

Create separate articles for notable sublocations only

 * Per my proposal (I'm fine with either).
 * 1) Not giving pages to any of the locations at all, especially when they have official names and notable events take place there, seems incredibly inconsistent with how the rest of the wiki handles its locations. There's nothing wrong with Llama's Temple being separate from Angry Aztec, or Shine Gate being separate from Isle Delfino, so there should be nothing wrong with the other locations having separate articles. The planets in Super Mario Galaxy are not perfectly analogous to the locations in Super Mario Odyssey, considering how the vast majority of them don't even have names. Is the "Haunted Mansion" named officially (beyond Luigi and the Haunted Mansion, although using that as evidence is sketchy when every star mission uses capitalized titles and it could easily be referring to a generic mansion).
 * 2) Per all.

Leave everything as it is

 * 1) I'm a bit skeptical that your list is fully comprehensive, so I'd rather err on the side of caution and let things stay the same, per what I said above.

Comments
@TimeTurner, I see where you're going, actually. My problem is with locations that really do not have anything significant happening in them and those that blend in with the kingdom overworld. I was thinking more about how the Super Mario 64 world pages include sub-areas like the Lethal Lava Land volcano and the Snowman's Land igloo. In my perception the Courtyard in the Lake Kingdom is as important as the starting location in Tiny-Huge Island, for example, but I fully understand that the name can make a difference and that people might oppose because of it. About the selection, it might not be 100% complete, I confess.
 * Names are an important factor in this. One of our most general policies is that, if something has a name, it should get an article (although I usually stress that they shouldn't be the deciding factor). The biggest difference between the locations you mentioned from Super Mario 64 and the ones from Super Mario Odyssey is that Odyssey names them. It gives them an official and clear-cut declaration that this place in particular is important. As I said, I don't necessarily think that all of them should have separate articles, but not giving any of them pages is too broad. 18:43, 2 April 2018 (EDT)