MarioWiki:Proposals

Establish a standard for long course listings in articles for characters/enemies/items/etc.
"Truck Moving cargo trucks appear on GCN Mushroom Bridge. Stationary cargo trucks appear on the road in GCN Mushroom Bridge R, GCN Mushroom Bridge R/T, New York Minute T, New York Minute 4T, and Bangkok Rush; they also appear on the sidelines in Tokyo Blur 3, Tokyo Blur 4, New York Minute 3, New York Minute B, Los Angeles Laps, Los Angeles Laps 3, Bangkok Rush, and Bangkok Rush 2, as well as in these courses' R, T, and R/T variants where applicable."

The number of courses listed in this paragraph was getting so wild that I had to condense it with the "as well as in these courses' variants" statement. Problem is, this sacrifices specificity. The proposal aims to introduce a guideline whereby lists of this ilk are more digestibly integrated in prose writing. To this end, I propose two options, each based on a format already used on some articles; the preferred format will be applied when the amount of courses listed is 7 or higher.

Option 1: Bullet-point lists

The subject's general description for a particular game is followed by a bulleted list of courses in said game, like so: Slippa

Slippas appear in fifteen levels:


 * Jungle Jaunt
 * Freezing Fun
 * Simian Swing
 * Deck Trek
 * Tire Trail
 * Riggin' Rumble
 * Tricky Temple
 * Snake Charmer's Challenge
 * Mountain Mayhem
 * Spiky Tire Trail
 * Kong Krazy
 * Construction Site Fight
 * Fast Barrel Blast
 * Skyscraper Caper
 * Oil Drum Slum

If a subject displays different traits across one game, such as having different colours or behaviours, and these traits are described on one article as opposed to being split between articles (e.g. Bandits/Coin Bandits in Yoshi's Island), each course in the list is followed in brackets by whatever variations of this enemy appear in the course. In other words, if a subject has traits X, Y, and Z across levels A, B, C, D etc. in a game, then the level list has the following form:
 * Level A (X variation)
 * Level B (Y variation)
 * Level C (X variation, Z variation)
 * Level D (X variation, Y variation) and so on, and so forth.

Option 2: Courses show up in-line when hovering/tapping a certain phrase

When the seventh course is reached in a list, the courses listed from that point on are being integrated in a piece of hoverable text.

Maw-Ray

They are found in Piranha Plant Cove, Piranha Plant Cove 2, Piranha Plant Cove 3, GCN Daisy Cruiser,.

Notice that the phrase "and some of their variants" has a dashed underline. Putting your cursor over it (on desktop) or tapping it (on mobile) reveals these course variants.

If the number of courses slated to be included in hoverable text is too small (e.g. the seventh course is the only one left to mention), previous courses in the list can be integrated in the hoverable text at the editor's discretion.

~

Note: Neither guideline will apply where a subject's course appearances are described individually, like in the Skewer article.

Proposer: Deadline: June 8, 2023, 23:59 GMT

Option 1

 * 1) Not the biggest fan of using hover text for large swaths of important information,  I do agree with reformatting the big sentences though, and I am voting for this potion since it's
 * 2) mobile users won't be able to use the second one.
 * 3) I don't think it's very necessary to standardize this format, but organization and consistency are nice anyways. I personally like lists, and, as stated above, they don't affect mobile users, so this choice makes sense.
 * 4) Per all.
 * 5) Per all.

Comments
I do not see the point in standardizing it, really Spectrogram (talk) 14:09, May 25, 2023 (EDT)
 * If you don't see the point, then I suppose you could vote for the "It doesn't matter" option. Or is that not what that's for? 10:51, May 26, 2023 (EDT)
 * Why should I? Abstaining is a better option when the proposal doesn't ruin anything if it passes. Spectrogram (talk) 10:58, May 26, 2023 (EDT)

Clarify how to italicize merchandise titles in articles
This is what Manual of Style currently states regarding italicization of media titles in articles: The wiki has decided it proper to respect all games, series, movies, television programs, albums (music) and publications (print: comics, books and magazines) by italicizing all of their titles...

This policy does a good job covering the vast majority of media (i.e. all digital games, audiovisual media, and print media), with the only type of media not covered being physical merchandise. All of this media is listed in Template:Merchandise, which has led me to notice inconsistencies in how the titles of merchandise are italicized. For example: This proposal aims to fix these problems by standardizing how merchandise is italicized. I've tried to keep the proposal as simple as possible; my apologies if this is unnecessarily complicated.
 * Despite both being board games, Mario Kart Wii Grand Prix is italicized, while Monopoly Gamer is not.
 * LEGO Super Mario only italicizes the name of the Super Mario franchise and not the name of the LEGO brand, but Super Mario Backpack Buddies leaves the entire title unitalicized, including the Super Mario franchise name.
 * None of the food media have italicized titles (i.e. breakfast cereals such as Nintendo Cereal System and Super Mario Cereal, and other packaged food such as Sunshine Biscuits Super Mario Bros. Chocolate Cookies and Keebler Mario Kart Fudge Stripes.
 * The Video Game Super Stars action figure brand is italicized, but other unique brand names, such as Trading Card Treats, are not.

I want to limit unnecessary voting options, so if one thing comes out of this, it's clear that the titles of physical tabletop games (board games, card games, and others such as Donkey Kong Jenga) should be completely italicized, because they are objectively games just like any digital game, and they should thus fall under existing italicization policy. What's left is to decide how the titles of other merchandise types should be italicized, if at all.

As a clarification, only official merchandise titles should be considered for italicization, i.e. titles that are clearly displayed on the merchandise's packaging, on the item itself, or otherwise from a reliable source, such as the manufacturer's website; a title from a source such as an Amazon or eBay listing is too unreliable, and a unitalicized, general description of the item can be used instead in those cases.

There are three notable features of many Super Mario franchise merchandise: Note that in this context, brand names should not be confused with the names of the companies that manufacture and/or sell the brands, such as First4Figures, Mattel, or Taco Bell; these should be left unitalicized. As an example, Freiberger is a company, Pizzatainment is one of their brands, and Triple Salami Explosion is one of the products sold under that brand.
 * Unique brand names used to distinguish a series of merchandise, most commonly with collectibles such as the Super Mario Trading Card Collection, Nintendo Super Secrets, and the aforementioned Trading Card Treats.
 * Names of games and series in the Super Mario franchise, as well as the franchise itself. These should already be italicized per existing policy.
 * Product names used to title each item in a series, such as the Burger King "Donkey Kong Time Racer" toy. A product name can also be given to standalone items, such as the Mushroom Bank. Because these are almost used simply to describe a product in the same way as an unofficial brief description, I believe these can safely be left unitalicized. I haven't included many options regarding these to keep voting options to a minimum, though please let me know if there is a valid argument against this.

Because of these features, I see four possible choices for italicization of the titles of non-tabletop-game merchandise:
 * Completely italicize the entire title, just like the other media already described in MarioWiki:Manual of Style.
 * Italicize any unique brand names and Super Mario games or series, but do not italicize any other words.
 * Only italicize the name of a Super Mario game, series, or the franchise if it appears in the title, but do not italicize any brand names or other words.
 * Do not italicize the title at all.

My personal choice from these options would be to italicize the names of any unique brand names and Super Mario games or series, but leave any other words unitalicized. I believe this would be the best balance between leaving all merchandise titles subject to a lack of standardization and brazenly italicizing merchandise titles where it may be unwarranted, though I can see a valid argument being made for most of the other options.

The option that receives the most votes should be explicitly listed as a guideline on MarioWiki:Manual of Style, under the "Italicizing titles" header. Please bring up any points of confusion or contention in the comments.

Proposer: Deadline: June 16, 2023, 23:59 GMT

Fully italicize titles of tabletop games, and italicize only the names of unique brands and Super Mario games or series otherwise

 * 1) Per proposal.
 * 2) This makes the most sense.
 * 3) Works for us, since this definitely is most in line with how we usually format things as-is, and the tabletop games should've been fully italicized from the start.

Fully italicize titles of only tabletop games, and do not italicize titles of other merchandise

 * 1) Wikipedia italicizes board and card games and doesn't capitalize other merch. I don't really see the point in italicizing franchise names within the name of another product which could possibly already have some italicization going on.

New features
None at the moment.

Removals
None at the moment.

Split the remaining Mario Party and Mario Party 2 mini-game variants from each other
Building off of a discussion and proposal from the Balloon Burst talk page, I'm proposing we aim to split off the rest of the mini-games shared between Mario Party and Mario Party 2. While many of those games play almost identically between both games, many of them still feature various rule differences. Few examples:


 * Hot Rope Jump in the first game is a survival mini-game where everyone must jump 20 times (40 in Mini-Game Island). Anyone who hits the rope loses and pays the people who didn't hit the rope money. In Mario Party 2, it becomes a last man standing game.
 * Crane Game in the first game gives the solo player only one chance to grab something or someone, with the money they earn varying based on who or what they catch. In Mario Party 2, the solo player must grab everyone and is given the option to grab clocks to extend the timer.
 * Grab Bag in the original has everyone stealing each other's money. In Mario Party 2, it's a battle mini-game where everyone grabs pre-disposed Mushrooms and one lucky target gets a golden one worth three points and the aim is to just have the most mushrooms.

Those are just a few examples. Several other games feature differences too. And while there is the argument that "they still play the same at the core", a few things to counter that are the fact that both Mario Party: The Top 100 and Mario Party Superstars actively acknowledge the different versions of each mini-game, regardless of whether or not they had differing names or not. The Top 100 featured the MP2 version of Handcar Havoc while Superstars featured the MP version. And this extends to games with differing names, such as Hexagon Heat and Desert Dash to Mushroom Mix-Up and Dungeon Dash. And finally, this would be consistent with several other mini-games; the aforementioned ones that share the same basic concept, but have different names to the notable examples of Bowser's Bigger Blast and Beach Volleyball, which appear similar to identical to Bowser's Big Blast and Beach Volley Folly. All that being said, I don't think it's that unreasonable to split the rest of these mini-games into their own articles.

The following is a list of mini-games that would be split if we split all:
 * Hot Bob-omb
 * Crazy Cutter
 * Face Lift
 * Skateboard Scamper
 * Platform Peril
 * Grab Bag
 * Bumper Balls
 * Tipsy Tourney
 * Bombs Away
 * Shy Guy Says
 * Hot Rope Jump
 * Slot-Car Derby
 * Bowl Over
 * Crane Game (minigame)
 * Bobsled Run
 * Handcar Havoc

For the second option, these mini-games would be split based on having rule differences:
 * Hot Bob-omb
 * Hot Rope Jump
 * Bowl Over
 * Crane Game (minigame)

And as per the comment below, the third option would split mini-games with a different names across several languages:
 * Hot Bob-omb
 * Face-Lift
 * Skateboard Scamper
 * Platform Peril
 * Grab Bag
 * Bowl Over
 * Crane Game (minigame)

As for the naming convention, I simply say we use the game as the identifier (Crane Game (Mario Party) to Crane Game (Mario Party 2)). It may not be how we covered Balloon Burst, mainly because many of the mini-games share the same category. Some could follow similar suits (Crazy Cutters (4-Player) to Crazy Cutters (Battle)), but I feel the titles work best. If anyone has any further thoughts or suggestions, let me know.

Proposer: Deadline: June 9, 2023, 23:59 GMT

Split all mini-games

 * 1) Secondary choice.

Split only mini-games with rule differences

 * 1) Primary choice. These mini-games have as much differences as Balloon Burst does. They may not be category changes, but they still have significant rule changes.
 * 2) Per proposal. This makes the most sense to me.

Split mini-games with regional name differences

 * 1) The Balloon Burst split not only had the rule change, but its Japanese name was also different, so this makes the most sense to me if we gotta split.
 * 2) I feel like the different names show an intention to count them as different minigames, especially games like Hot Bob-omb and Crane Game where the Japanese names seem to imply they're meant to be sequels of sorts to the original games (which is the same split reasoning as Bowser's Bigger Blast).

Split nothing

 * 1) Technically, these are the same minigames across two different games, so it just seems a bit odd to separate them seeing as there isn't too much to distinguish the different versions. I don't really see why we can't keep them on the same page and list the differences of the minigames anyway. Now, I would suggest improving the clarity and completeness of the existing articles, but separating the appearances altogether just seems a bit unorganized.
 * 2) Cosmetic changes across each mini game version do not warrant a split-up
 * 3) I'm all for splits if the difference is notable (Balloon Burst) or Nintendo bothers to distinguish a visual change in the English localization (Hexagon Heat etc.) but the differences here aren't very significant. I don't think we'll benefit much from this and it'll just make navigation more confusing.
 * 4) Secondary choice; I don't mind it if we kept the minigames merged either, and as Waluigi Time stated, most of the minigames listed only have aesthetic changes.

Comments
So is the idea that this would move Balloon Burst (4-Player) to Balloon Burst (Mario Party) and Balloon Burst (2 vs. 2) to Balloon Burst (Mario Party 2)? I'd support that but I don't think the Balloon Burst proposal is technically old enough to change the names. 14:35, June 2, 2023 (EDT)
 * Actually, the idea of moving Balloon Burst's name is not covered here; that would remain unaffected. This is just the idea of splitting minigames from both Mario Party and Mario Party 2 that are still merged together. I guess I should've made a list of those minigames. As for the naming, I was just mentioning it to show I'm aware that it's not following the naming idea I had. But when the time comes that we can change that, I'd openly support that move too. Heck I tried to suggest it on the proposal itself.

I'm also noticing a few games that are similar to the point where absolutely nothing changes (Tipsy Tourney, Shy Guy Says, Slot Car Derby etc). If people are opposed to splitting all of them, I can make an option to only split those that feature significant changes.

@MegaBowser64 Part of the reason I'm proposing this is because we already have many minigames that are already split, despite being nearly identical. Mushroom Mix-Up and Hexagon Heat feature no gameplay differences between versions, the only reason they're split is because they have different names. And we just recently split Balloon Burst too, which also had the same gameplay focus as in Mario Party, with the only difference being the change in category, going from a 4-Player minigame to a 2-vs-2 minigame. Otherwise, the goal is still to burst the balloon fastest and the controls are identical. And with that minigame, even the name itself was the exact same. Beyond those examples, Desert Dash and Dungeon Dash play the exact same, Tightrope Treachery and Rainbow Run play the exact same, and Mario Bandstand and Toad Bandstand are in the same category as Balloon Burst; play the same, but different category.

Face Lift in the first party game features you distorting Bowser's face; the next game has you distorting other characters' faces. This and other examples like this cannot make a minigame version distinguishable from another. 21:58, June 2, 2023 (EDT)
 * Okay, but I listed examples where the rules differ. As I said, Crane Game in Mario Party ends when the solo player catches one thing while in Mario Party 2 it ends when all three players are caught. Bowl Over in Mario Party gives the player only one shot and will take money from anyone who is hit while in Mario Party 2, the solo player is given two shots and has to hit everyone to win. Those are not cosmetic changes. Again, I can alter things to only include mini-games where the rules and aims are altered, but I feel if we do nothing, we may as well merge the two Balloon Burst mini-games back together and merge Hexagon Heat, Rainbow Run and Dungeon Dash together with their Mario Party counterparts. Hexagon Heat is as much of a cosmetic change as Face Lift is.

I actually think there should be an option to split the minigames based on their differing Japanese names (which also was a factor on why Balloon Burst was split). That would be the following: 03:19, June 3, 2023 (EDT)
 * Hot Bob-omb
 * Face-Lift
 * Skateboard Scamper
 * Platform Peril
 * Grab Bag
 * Bowl Over
 * Crane Game (minigame)
 * I could add that. While I'm more on the rule side of the split, it would be more consistent with how Balloon Burst was split. Plus, several of those games also have different names in other regions, which I feel helps support it.

@Waluigi Time Except Balloon Burst doesn't have any gameplay differences. The category difference doesn't change the fact that the controls to bursting the balloon are the same and the goal of bursting the balloon first is still the same. I don't exactly see how Balloon Burst is a gameplay difference when the core concepts are the same across both games. Again, my points on Crane Game and Bowl Over are that they actually change over the course of two games; requiring the solo player to eliminate all three other players instead of just one. The requirements to end a game I feel are more significant when compared to Balloon Burst. I concede that stuff like Tipsy Tourney or Shy Guy Says would be a bit excessive, but for the examples where the rules do change, I feel that should be at least a bigger focus.
 * I did look at the examples listed, but I don't really find the differences there worth splitting over. You're still doing the same things in the game, just more of it. I put more stock in Balloon Burst switching to a different type of minigame (though I'm not super committed to keeping them split, I can take it or leave it). -- 13:01, June 3, 2023 (EDT)

Miscellaneous
None at the moment.