MarioWiki:Proposals

Writing guidelines
None at the moment.

New Notice Template: refrequest
Currently, there is only one template dedicated to pages that have unsourced information, which is. However, this template is meant for tagging singular, specific instances of uncited facts in a page. My proposal is that we create a new notice template to tag articles that, in general, have multiple instances of unsourced information throughout and need citations added to them. The tag would have the tag date added to it with  and could be added to a specific article section with , similar to  and , and the tag would also add the article to a category, probably Category:Citation Needed. For example, the article on Nintendo literally has absolutely no references/citations in the article at all; rather than adding after every single individual unsourced piece of information, it would be much easier to add a notice to the top of the page indicating that the page as a whole is in need of citations. It's worth mentioning that Wikipedia itself has 2 notice templatesjust like this, as well as a refneeded template.

I actually attempted to create this template last night, but it was deleted since it was created without permission. You can see what the notice would look like here.

Proposer: Deadline: May 6, 2017, 23:59 GMT May 13, 2017, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) Per proposal.
 * Eh, I don't see the harm in creating this template. Some articles could fine uses for it, specifically the glitch articles where it could list a very specific problem that rewrite template couldn't. Having a template like this can easily tell editors that the article needs better sources at a glance, and while the usage of this template is rather niche it would still serve a purpose. I'd support, because I don't see the downsides of having an extra template for citations.
 * 1) This is a good idea, and is better than repeatedly using the refneeded template. Plus, if Wikipedia has it, so should we.
 * 2) Per all.
 * 3) Per all
 * 4) Per all. It won't hurt to have it.
 * 5) Per all.

Oppose

 * 1) I'm sure no one else will join me, but I really think this is unnecessary. I do agree that pages like Nintendo should have more sources, although mainly just in the history section, but I don't think a garish template at the top of the page is best for an otherwise fine article. Same with the glitch pages, in all honesty I see no issues with the  being used in relevant areas. Also, should the proposal pass, I massively oppose the creation of a new category for it. It's asking for the exact same thing as Category:Citation needed, just on a more large-scale situation.
 * 2) Per Yoshi876. I held off on voting for a while, but I really don't see the need for more than one template calling for the same thing.  asks for a specific source, whereas this would cover the whole page, which I can see getting confusing as it wouldn't be clear exactly what needs to be sourced. And having both templates on the page would just look terrible and be redundant.
 * 3) See my reason below.
 * 4) Per Yoshi876 and Alex95. It's more important to let users know what specifically needs fixed (so they are better able to do it) than it is to let to know that something needs fixing. Doing the latter in this case makes it more difficult to determine whether or not citation issues have been (accurately) addressed down the line without someone poring over and interpreting the citation policy after every potential problem sentence. I would say that if an article requires users to do that, then that article has bigger issues than the source(s) of its information.
 * 5) - Per all.
 * 6) Per all.

Comments
Wikipedia has a different policy than us when it comes to creating citations though. We're far more lenient with trusting the userbase on information they have gained from playing video games. The only articles this would be really useful in are articles dealing with real world matters, like reception sections, development, rarely trivia sections, legacy, etc which are very few articles on this wiki. I don't think this template would be as useful as it is in other wikis and having just refneeded actually works (and most of the time when we come across that, we usually just outright delete it if people can't source their claims). 14:14, 29 April 2017 (EDT)
 * For example, Wikipedia does not count YouTube as a reliable source, while we do, as long as the video is relevant to the questioned info. If anything, there could be a "better source needed" tag for sources that don't necessarily prove the into cited. 15:04, 29 April 2017 (EDT)
 * You mean like this? Niiue (talk) 03:50, 1 May 2017 (EDT)

My only concern with an additional template is we already have and we could do something more clever with it. Is there any way to put an alert at the top of the page automatically by editing the already existing template? -- 18:55, 1 May 2017 (EDT)

@Yoshi876: The point of a "garish" template is to direct editors to the main problem of the article, as being unsourced is clearly not fine. If it is being "garish", it's doing its job exactly as it is intended of informing readers of bad problems. In fact, I think it's even uglier on the flipside to what we're currently doing seeing the all over the place in the article (some articles can be mostly devoid of necessary cited sources) instead of all of those issues being congested into one template that does its job of immediately pointing out readers that a good chunk of statements that isn't sourced. It immediately notifies the reader, rather than the less apparent template. But this is an argument from an aesthetics point of view, which is, in itself, fallacious; we intentionally designed those templates to be hideous, garish, and ugly in the first place, you can't really fault it when we designed it that way to begin with. Though the new category proposed isn't such a great idea that I pretty much agree with. 15:38, 2 May 2017 (EDT)
 * A lot of our articles are unsourced, as you say we trust editors from what they find in game. Articles like Nintendo and Sega I think should be better sourced, but I don't think a template like that at the top of the page is the correct way to do so, especially since much of the information is likely to come from the same place, so in all honesty I think a would suffice rather than a template at the top, especially when not everything is going to need be sourced. I can see the point with glitch pages, but in all honesty I think a better policing system is required, rather than a template.
 * And that's why I said that its purpose is niche, but the niche purpose fills a role that the rewrite template doesn't necessarily cover. A lot of articles on the wiki can benefit from this, and this additionally includes sections where a template like this is necessary, and while it's not a lot of articles and only some sections, it's a purpose that's there (many reception sections, such as Mario Kart 8 Deluxe's, needs references). For the glitch page, some glitches can be really sworn to be true but the glitch just happened at a bad time and bad place where you couldn't capture it (though I think better glitches are those that can be replicated, sometimes glitches are caused by faults in the CD and we don't count those). Also, you're making assumptions about Nintendo's article. You're saying that it's "likely" that the information in Nintendo's article comes from one source, but that is not necessarily true in cases like these. Some details you read and some links in between events can easily come from multiple sources, try reading any article on Wikipedia, you'll understand what I mean. 16:10, 2 May 2017 (EDT)
 * My main thing with the Nintendo article is that, for me at least, not everything in it needs references. Having editing a fair few Wikipedia articles, and using sources, I am well aware that information can come from multiple sources, but in Nintendo's case what we have, is highly likely that there's a History of Nintendo website out there that can give us the needed reference. I can see the uses of the template, but I don't like the form is takes, perhaps something like would be better. That way it draws attention to the issue, but isn't so in your face about it, because I do trust the majority of our editors, and so I believe the information is valid, but could be improved by being backed up; and it's not necessarily as bad as a poorly written article, or one that lacks images.
 * Nintendo's article is only an example. What about the other company articles, or the people articles? Or development sections? Also, you're also making more assumptions: considering Nintendo is a huge, well-known company, many articles have been written about its history, Wikipedia's take on it dismantles your argument about a single website covering Nintendo's history. In my opinion, having no sources is just as bad as a poorly written article: if the poorly written article is correctly sourced with good information, we can believe it. However, with a well-written article with dubious sources, it's misinformation, and misinformation is arguably worse than no information. I also don't like the template being, it's far, far too subtle when dealing with a clear, pronounced error with the article. 16:35, 2 May 2017 (EDT)

Removals
None at the moment.

Changes
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Miscellaneous
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