MarioWiki:Proposals talk archive 1

Someone propose the chat be moved. Por favor. I don't think it even needs a vote, so I won't put it there.
 * I'm a bit undecided if I should leave it up to the community. I will consider it though. 23:34, 29 May 2007 (EDT) EDIT: You're a sysop. You can bring it up. 23:34, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

What is this exactly?

Splitting
Shouldn't we perhaps move this page to subpages? The edit glitch problem is starting to happen again. 13:57, 26 August 2007 (EDT)

Anyone? 16:30, 26 August 2007 (EDT)
 * Agree.

Gofer

Go ahead and do such splitting. I don't what type of page is this.(Super F22 Pilot 05:00, 22 November 2007 (EST))

Complete Rehaul
Expect a complete rehaul of this page and archives WITHIN THE NEXT COUPLE OF DAYS by me – sub-pages of this & archive page. It's next on my to-do list after a couple of new MarioWiki pages. 20:59, 30 August 2007 (EDT)
 * No way, that would make things hard to find if you make a sub-page for every proposal or category. 23:29, 11 September 2007 (EDT)

Question
I made the "It's not just america" section,and I want to know, did I set it out right? And about the deadline, is it just the time the section was made plus "EDT"? I don't understand that part... Davidk92

Archives
We need to do something about the super big archive page. It's getting harder and harder to load, so I can't even archive was I just removed from this page. -- Son of Suns
 * Simply make a second archive. The simplist explanation is almost always the corret answer.
 * Should we archive 20 at a time like we do with the Main Page Talk? -- [[Image:Shyghost.PNG]]Chris[[Image:Shyghost.PNG]] 22:20, 15 October 2007 (EDT)
 * Actually, screw it. I'll move everything now. -- [[Image:Shyghost.PNG]]Chris[[Image:Shyghost.PNG]] 22:20, 15 October 2007 (EDT)
 * Done. Not perfect, but it's done. -- [[Image:Shyghost.PNG]]Chris[[Image:Shyghost.PNG]] 22:56, 15 October 2007 (EDT)

I was thinking, a better way to lower load times would be to thin out the archives. How, you might ask. Simple, each section would have it's own archive. IE: Merges & Splits has it's own archive, right? Well, New Features would get the same treatment, as would all other sections. Yes, this will increase the number of archives, but it will drastically cut down the load times for everyone. In fact, I might just make this a proposal. -- Chris 01:52, 18 October 2007 (EDT)
 * Actually, now that I think about it, this isn't such a hot idea. It would create more work that needed. -- [[Image:Shyghost.PNG]]Chris[[Image:Shyghost.PNG]] 02:01, 18 October 2007 (EDT)

Didn't I start a proposal?
 * Wayoshi deleted it. Not sure if this is okay. 15:52, 27 November 2007 (EST)

>=O

Old proposals coming up again
Seriously, a lot of these proposals are on a previous subject. We should do something about it. MarioGalaxy2433g5 17:28, 15 January 2008 (EST)
 * It is annoying, but the most we can really do is point out that the proposal's already been done. Odds are the votes will turn out the same, or the person who proposed the idea again might just take it off, but we can't make them as far as I know. Besdies, things change over time, and I remember at least once instance where a proposal that passed was revoked the second time around because people looked at it again and thought of it a different way and realized it really wasn't really an idea that would fly. - Walkazo
 * A time limit could always be put in place. Say, a particular topic may not be brought up again until 60 days have past since it's last proposal. -- [[Image:Shyghost.PNG]]Chris[[Image:Shyghost.PNG]] 22:03, 16 January 2008 (EST)
 * I'd support a proposal for that if you made it. 01:17, 17 January 2008 (EST)
 * Perhap we could also have a list of proposal idea that passed/failed (and perhap the reasons why said proposals passed/failed) on the proposal page to indicate if it has already have been brought up. That way, perhap we could prevent something like the Improvement Drive from being brought up, accepted and turn out to be a simillar flop. --Blitzwing 06:59, 17 January 2008 (EST)
 * Good idea, it'd be like a shorter, easier to load version of the Proposal Archives. But that list is gonna be pretty big, so we should probably have it on a seperate page from Proposals. - Walkazo
 * Yeah, of course. I think this page (If it ever get created) should be organised in a table. --Blitzwing 17:12, 17 January 2008 (EST)
 * Or we could just say, at the top of the page, to check the archives before making a proposal. MarioGalaxy2433g5 16:35, 18 January 2008 (EST)

The thing is, there are tonnes of archived proposals and most people will not have the patience to look through them all. Plus some of us have old cruddy computers that can't handle the massive amounts of data in those archives or take forever to load the pages. - Walkazo


 * It isn't my fault that some of you have images in your sigs which significantly increases the loading. MarioGalaxy2433g5 17:28, 28 January 2008 (EST)

"Per"
I have a question, and this might make me sound not smart, but remember, I'm new here. What does it mean exactly when you say "per" all the time? I mean, by now, I've figured out that it means "I agree with this person." But why, and how did everyone here learn what it means? Everyone's always like, "Per this user. Per that user." And I'm wondering, "Is that a real thing that people say, or is it Mario Wiki slang? If you think I'm silly because I don't know this, just remember that I'm new here and I don't know many of these terms that people use. Could someone just answer the question? Orangeyoshi 20:33, 21 January 2008 (EST)
 * I just moved this so that it would get more traffic. I don't know personally.  If it is MarioWiki slang I should put it in the glossary.  21:10, 21 January 2008 (EST)
 * It's not MarioWiki slang (see definition 4). 01:21, 22 January 2008 (EST)

Ah. Thanks for helping me out. But why does everyone on MarioWiki use it? I didn't know what it means before Time Q showed me a dictionary entry. Before I was a user, did everyone on MarioWiki get together and say, "You know what? Let's say "Per" all the time when we're voting in proposals.", or what? (Just so you know, I wasn't serious.") Orangeyoshi 20:54, 22 January 2008 (EST)
 * Well, it's way faster than saying "I agree..." and I'm sure a few users have heard it used in real life (like me) or on other Wikis or polls or whatever, and decided to incorporate it here to save time, then everyone started copying them. But I dunno for sure; I've only been here a few months. - Walkazo


 * You're probably right. That's good enough for me. Orangeyoshi 18:55, 23 January 2008 (EST)

More rules
I believe we need two more rules for the proposals page. First, something that appears to be pretty obvious to me but the guidelines don't mention it yet: Every vote must be signed in order to count. (Currently, there's an unsigned vote by Fly Guy 2 on the proposal about Bob Hoskin's quote - I'm not suggesting the rule so his vote will be removed, I'm suggesting it to prevent this in future.) Second, there should be a deadline after which it won't be allowed anymore to edit the wording of a proposal - say, 3 days before the actual deadline. This is to prevent that users who don't visit the wiki very often have no chance to change their minds when a proposal's subject is modified (or when there are new voting options added - yeah, the Bob Hoskins proposal inspired me to that too :P). What do you think about this? Or should I start a proposal about it? ;) 14:50, 9 February 2008 (EST)
 * Signing your votes sorta seems like one of those "well duh" things and I just assumed it was already a bonafied rule... But if it's not we should definitely make it one. But maybe we should be a bit less leniant about editing the proposal. Things like fixing grammer are fine, but if anyone wants to actually change the proposal they should just pitch the idea in the Comments section, and if anyone agrees with that change they can just vote Yes but also say something like "as long as User's idea is enacted." That way, the people who voted for the original proposal and never came back are still voting for the same thing (since it's always possible they only agree with the original idea, and not the updated one; it's like twisting someone's words and meaning, it's just not right). Also, if it's a major enough change another section can alwasy be added, and if any of the original votes say something like "yes we can remove the quote, but I'd rather it be censored with f---" (to use a recent example) than whoever mediating the proposal (or someone else) can move that vote accordingly (but keep the wording the same so you can tell where it originally was from). Long story short, I think saying "no more rewrites, period" or "only in the first 48 hours" is better than "not during the last 3 days". - Walkazo
 * Yeah, you're right, the changing crap was stupid. *Hits head* It should be a rule.

Problem
Am I the only one who gets an error when trying to view this page? Everytime I try to view it, a problem occurs, closing the page, and stopping me from viewing it. I'm not sure if anyone else has this problem, but its prooving fairly difficult for me to argue a Proposal. If the problem isn't just my Computer, then, can someone please try to figure out what is wrong with this page, and fix it.
 * It works for me. Clear your browser's cache (Ctrl+Shift+Del for Mozilla) and then try to load it again. - 07:28, 20 March 2008 (EDT)

Making them?
How do I do it?


 * It is NOT editing Template:Proposal. Read the steps on this page carefully. 23:35, 11 April 2008 (EDT)
 * Well, sorry to say this, but you made it the wrong way. I wouldn't really know how to make one either, but all the proposals I've seen list the proposer and deadline, and have a "support", "oppose", and "comments" section. And maybe you should explain your idea more, I don't really get it. 07:35, 12 April 2008 (EDT)
 * Me neither. Most characters' pages already have such quote sections. Please explain your proposal a bit further. 07:41, 12 April 2008 (EDT)
 * And sign it, put the deadline, and make Voting and Comments sections. 08:55, 12 April 2008 (EDT)

Another Error...
Huh? The page keeps giving my Computer an error everytime I try to load it... AGAIN! I checked the file history, and browsed through all edits in the last three days, and it didn't mess up until this edit. Strangely, when I skipped that edit, and moved on to the following edit, it was working fine, til' I attempted to view Time Q's following edit, in which it bugged up again... Uh, that sounded kinda stupid. But it's true. I think it has something to do with PY's sig, but I'm not sure. Can anyone give me an explanation or a solution? :\
 * All the pages you linked to worked for me. The problem must be on your end. - 10:42, 12 May 2008 (EDT)

...Ugh... I guess I'm the only one with the problem. Blitzwing says the problem comes from someone's sig, and I have reason to believe it's PY's, but that doesn't explain how two of her edits were fine for me, but the one between them gave me an error. My Computer must be getting old. -_-' I guess I won't be able to vote for a while. D:

I was discussing this error with Stumpers, and he agreed with me that we shouldn't allow "special sigs" on the Proposals page. They cause errors for some people, and according to Stumpers, they prove as a hastle in archives. Since I can't, ya know, propose anything (and a proposal on something like this is stupid), I ask that rather than signing sigs, people merely sign their name. Like this -> Pokemon DP.
 * The problem with the sigs in the archieve is that they can cause computers to get sluggish when there are, say, 10+ proposals on a page for, say... 100-300 sigs. I don't have any specific numbers on my side, but if someone want me too I could check out the archieve again.  Anyway, this was coming up a while ago that users who have slow computers don't check archieves because they're so hard to see.  01:32, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Is there any kind of shortcut to put only the name instead of the sig? I always put (~), which is converted into my sig. I don't think it's very attractive to put the whole xyz code everytime you sign a comment. 06:29, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

I'm sure there's a shortcut to signing your name in that style. Not sure, though.
 * You can use for it. I agree we could make this page more formally and easier to load and stop these annoying line breaks because of problems in people's sigs when we use that way. -  12:21, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
 * I'm all for that idea. We could just add it as a rule at the top of the page. 12:23, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

Well, if we're gonna go along with the idea, can we do it really soon? I'm eager to vote! D:
 * Do we even need a proposal to do that? Since it's an answer to a technical problem I don't think it's democratic for people to not be able to vote or view past votes because people desire to use a signature...  23:26, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

Yeah... So, what's the final decision? :|
 * I don't think we need a proposal, everyone here seems to agree that it's best to not use signatures, so let's lay down the rule. 05:17, 14 May 2008 (EDT)

OK, perfect. I'd do it, but... Ya know, I can't visit the page right now cuz of said problem. X|
 * I added a note to the rules, feel free to edit it. So, uh, what to do with the current signatures? Should we convert them all to the thing?  07:56, 14 May 2008 (EDT)

...Uhhhhh... Lol. This is funny. Dude, I Can't visit the page BECAUSE the sigs are there. Unless someone else removes them, I am still unable to visit the page. xP
 * LOL. I didn't talk specifically to you when I said "feel free to edit it", but of course you're right, someone should remove the sigs so you can visit the page again, haha. I'll start right now. 08:04, 14 May 2008 (EDT)

Yay! Thanks! :D If the page still messes up after the sigs are removed, I'm killing myself. o_o
 * So... does it work now? 08:34, 14 May 2008 (EDT)

OMGWTF?! IT STILL DOESN'T WORK! ...Just kidding! :P It works perfectly now! :D - Pokemon DP
 * It definitely looks a lot neater now. Good idea. ;) 14:53, 14 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Thanks! 00:40, 15 May 2008 (EDT)

But now no one knows what time someone made a comment. Uh, is that a problem? 13:41, 17 May 2008 (EDT)
 * It will always be in the page's history if a dispute comes up, and I don't believe it ever has yet, especially with the precident that a proposal cannot be majorly changed after submission. 18:29, 17 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Lots of people (myself included) don't include the time anyway... - Walkazo
 * I'd like to note that by adding 5 "~"s (that's ), it adds solely the time stamp to your statement. That might come in handy for those of you who commonly place times stamps in your signature.  19:52, 27 May 2008 (EDT)

Repeal?
Are we allowed to make a proposal to repeal a proposal?
 * Hmm, that might be a good idea. Courts allow repeals against certain verdicts; I don't see why that shouldn't apply here. 19:54, 27 May 2008 (EDT)
 * It happened before, so yes, it's possible. --Blitzwing 20:09, 27 May 2008 (EDT)
 * You'd have to wait four (?) months after the proposal, though, because of that new rule about no proposal replicating another proposal... hypothetically anyway. I suppose it depends on which proposal we're talking about.  20:32, 27 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Erm, there's no rule about that. I only added the "No Banjo & Conker" notice because:

1: The proposal gets brought up every two weeks, (Infact, before I added the notice, Plumber talked about creating a Banjo & Conker proposal right after a proposal for it got removed.)

2: The result is alway the same: No article for these two.

3: IT'S BLOODY ANNOYING.

Otherwise, there's no rule about replicating a proposal :).
 * Thank you. :D
 * I just hope we won't get stuck going around in a circle over this FA voting-reworking thing... - Walkazo

Removed Votes
I don't understand why votes are removed. Even if they are fan/biased votes, a vote is a vote. Like I've said before, a fan vote has just as much value as a per vote. So why are we picking through vote reasons and removing them based on "not a strong enough reason"? I understand people can re-vote after a vote has been removed, but what if you aren't active between the period your vote was removed and the proposal ended? 16:54, 4 June 2008 (EDT)
 * IIRC, your "reason" was something like "As long as it doesn't get overused" - that's not a reason but a condition on which you support the proposal. This doesn't work; either you support the proposal in it's full form or you don't. I can see your point that it might be a problem if votes are removed and the users are not notified - but it's one of the rules that any vote must have a strong reason, so I don't think it's unfair to remove votes which break a rule. 17:09, 4 June 2008 (EDT)


 * Also, the 'a vote is a vote' argument doesn't really hold water. All voting systems have rules in play to prevent abuse and to assure that most of the people voting know what they are voting on. -- [[Image:Shyghost.PNG]]Chris[[Image:Shyghost.PNG]] 18:44, 4 June 2008 (EDT)
 * "Like I've said before, a fan vote has just as much value as a per vote." I'm curious about this one. How is supporting another user's opinion on the same level as supporting a fictional subject?  23:39, 4 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Yeah, I thought that statement was a bit off too. - Walkazo

Hmm... yeah, I understand. 15:18, 8 June 2008 (EDT)

Article Moves
I was wondering if a proposal could be made to move an article (for example, Cyan Yoshi to "Light Blue Yoshi")? If so, which section of the page would it go under?
 * I don't think an actual proposal is needed for this. Why not make a "pseudo-proposal" on the Cyan Yoshi talk page? If there's no agreement, it can still be made an "official" proposal. (I would put it in the "Changes" section.) 18:30, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
 * I opened the topic on the talk page, so far there are just two of us talking about it, and he/she is also supporting it. 18:55, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
 * You could also put on the talk page, trying to call attention to it (although often it doesn't quite seem to have the desired effect :/). If there are no objections, I think it's fine to move the article, no matter how many people actually voted.  19:13, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Thanks for the advice! I'll be sure to keep the pages on my watch list in case anyone objects.  21:47, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

Template Inside Scrollbox?
When archiving Walkazo's Fire and Ice template proposal, I noticed that it doesn't seem to be possible to put a template (Soler put a template as an example on the proposals page) inside the scrollbox. So when I archived it, I put  after the template syntax. Is there a way to show the template inside the scrollbox? 09:09, 13 July 2008 (EDT)
 * I don't think so. Templates shouldn't really be put on the page either, just linked to. - 09:29, 13 July 2008 (EDT)
 * I agree, but what should we do in this case? 09:31, 13 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Well.... Maybe we could cut/paste the coding on the page of the template and put it instead of  . --Blitzwing 12:15, 13 July 2008 (EDT)

new proposal
how do make one? can I have a step by step dont wanna get it wrong...
 * It's easiest to simply copy another proposal, and replace it with your text. So, go to the Proposals page, click "edit", and choose a proposal to copy. Select the appropriate section (depends on what your proposal is about: Splits & Merges, Changes, Removals, etc.) and paste it there (if there already is a proposal in the section, paste it below). Now, change the header and the actual proposal text, and be sure to replace the Proposer and Deadline lines. How to add the correct deadline is explained at the top of the Proposals page. Remove the Support, Oppose and Comments sections, leaving just the headers, and then it's done, I think. 06:03, 24 August 2008 (EDT)

Signature Tech Issue?
Can someone tell me what exactly is wrong with putting sig templates on this page? They worked completely fine at the beginning. 14:02, 13 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Some sigs mess up the numbering of lists. Which is why I'm trying to make people use the user template on FA nomination articles as well.
 * That isn't the only reason. As seen before this "policy" was put up, a lot of sigs were used. Due to this, it gave some users' computers problems, such as Pokemon DP's computer. --Palkia47 14:25, 13 September 2008 (EDT)
 * The numbering problem is from incorrect tag(s), usually forgetting to put . I have no idea how "too many sigs" can cause even a weak comp to crash. 14:52, 13 September 2008 (EDT)
 * The "too many sigs" problem can be seen a few headers above. --Palkia47 14:56, 13 September 2008 (EDT)
 * The images in the signatures are what give the old computers grief, especially when it comes to viewing the archives. Also, the backgrounds have a nasty habit of streaking and obscuring text further down the page (on my machine, at any rate). - 15:06, 13 September 2008 (EDT)

Per votes
This is something that's been bugging me for a while now. Many votes are simply "Per X" and nothing more. While I don't know how all this "per" nonsense got started, it needs to stop, at least with those users whose vote consists of "Per X". It doesn't add anything and only serves to provide one more vote to overcome when actual reasons could be given instead.

By the by, "per" is nothing new. I remember using it in an edit summary as early as 2006. However, I've only rarely used it since then and only when its use is necessary. I know it's a lot to say about a simple three-letter word, but I'm seeing it everywhere on the Proposals page and it's irritating me. Stop saying it if you don't have anything to add. 15:00, 13 November 2008 (EST)
 * There was a proposal to get rid of Per Votes. It failed miserably.

The reason? "Per" mean you agree with someone and you have nothing to add. I'd rather see a bunch of three-letter support than redundant votes that takes up space merely to say the Exact same thing. --Blitzwing 17:14, 13 November 2008 (EST)
 * I'm not trying to be funny when I say this, but...per Blitz. 19:19, 13 November 2008 (EST)
 * I agree with Blitz.
 * Me three! There just three letters. (Is this turning into a proposal?)


 * I do see your point, Phoenix; there's a lot of one-off voters who just put "Per X" in order to make their votes count. It may seem unfair that their quick votes count just as much as those by users who are actually concerned about an issue, comment on it etc. But what do you want to do about it? Ban the phrase? Soon another one would be found. It won't help. Plus, it's indeed a very useful phrase if you agree with someone completely. 11:07, 14 November 2008 (EST)
 * "In accordance with the assertions of TimeQ"... just one example. It's one of those things that I wouldn't mind if it stopped, but stopping it would nearly be impossible.  14:00, 14 November 2008 (EST)

I also agree with Blitzwing's assertion that "Per X" is better than the redundant rehashing of the same ideas; he put it better than I could have, and that's often the case with proposals. It's not necessarily the "Per"-er's fault they don't have anything to add: if they got there first, they would have been the one writing the speech and being "Per"ed, but they weren't. Unfortunately, there's no fair way to separate them from the "one-off" voters, and it looks like the stigma and the phrase will remain for quite a while. - 20:48, 14 November 2008 (EST)

Proposal deletes
Why was the super mario wiki in various languages proposal deleted?