Talk:Fruit (Yoshi food)

Yoshi Fruit...
These things are called Yoshi Fruit in the SMG2 guide...
 * I think there called berries in every other game there in though


 * OK. Just sayin'
 * It could be used in the Super Mario Galaxy 2 section though or even at the start of the article where it say also called apples after that you could put Yoshi Fruit

Should it be noted that berries can be destroyed by ground-pounding, as well as Yoshi's powerups (even though they respawn)?

Other items that ARE called berries, like the berries in Paper Mario 64, are here... I think we should consider that before making a move.  ~Camwood777  (talk)  21:30, 24 November 2017 (EST)

Remember, Prima is licensed, but not made by Nintendo. I agree it's a better name, but I think it should stay as Berry until we can find some Nintendo verification for Yoshi Fruit. (Remember: the same guide calls Swoops "Bats" and Scuttlebugs "Spoings" and "Spanglers") DarkBowser777 (talk) 15:44, 24 June 2018 (EDT)

Move to ?
Currently this article is named Berry, a name that, to my knowledge, hasn't been used since a 1991 game manual. Meanwhile, both NSMBU and Odyssey call it Fruit. That name is far more recent and has been used more than once. So I think it would be a good idea to move this to Fruit. Thoughts? - 13:16, 26 February 2019 (EST)
 * Actually, never mind, just found out that we actually have a Fruit article. So maybe the current name is better. - 13:18, 26 February 2019 (EST)
 * That fruit article doesn't appear to be needed. It appears to be a generic subject. 14:02, 26 February 2019 (EST)
 * It as a concept is a very important element of Donkey Kong Jr., Yoshi's Story, and Super Mario Sunshine and is more of a concrete thing than "happiness" was. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 14:05, 26 February 2019 (EST)
 * What I meant to say was, there are other articles (Apple, Banana, Melon, etc) that already fulfills what the Fruit page essentially covers. 16:53, 26 February 2019 (EST)
 * And like I said, as a concept. It's good to have an inclusive page to run through those appearances rather than having it solely broken up with no unity. Particularly with DKJr, as all but the bananas are pretty ambiguous-looking. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 17:01, 26 February 2019 (EST)

What to do with this article?
See above section. Since this is now known as "Fruit" in more recent sources, and yet a Fruit article already exists, I've narrowed it down to three options as per Porplemontage's suggestions.


 * Option 1: Delete Fruit and rename this article to said title. Basically comprises of relegating the information on the Fruit article to the articles on individual fruits, deleting it, then renaming this article to Fruit.
 * Option 2: Rename this article to or, depending on which title is agreed upon. Literally that, and a compromise for those who want to see the current Fruit article kept.
 * Option 3: Do nothing. Literally that as well.

I'm fine with either of the former two options passing.

Proposer: Deadline: March 30, 2019, 23:59 GMT

Option 2

 * 1) I'd prefer to keep the general fruit article, as there are instances like the general nonspecific fruit in DKJr that can't be covered in the minor pages, and the ones where fruit as a whole are a primary game mechanic like Yoshi's Story and Super Mario Sunshine.
 * 2) Per Doc von Schmeltwick. It should be Fruit (Yoshi food)

Option 3

 * 1) The Fruit article should be kept, and I think deleting it for this would be silly. Fruit (Yoshi) is, in my opinion, a terrible name. At first glance, I think of a Yoshi named Fruit, not Fruit that Yoshis eat. We already have a perfectly good name that doesn't cause confusion, we should stick with it. Fruit (Yoshi food) isn't really a descriptive identifier either, as the Fruit page already mentions non-Berry fruit that Yoshis eat in Yoshi's Story and Super Mario Sunshine. Yoshi Fruit is better, but then we're using a name that's still outdated from one Prima guide, and we might as well stick with Berry at that point.
 * 2) Per Waluigi Time.
 * 3) - Fruit could be better (it's literally asking for it), but there are instances where fruit is not used to feed Yoshis.

Comments
@Waluigi Time: The "(Yoshi)" part is an identifier, and for a complete lack of a better one, too. 12:06, March 16, 2019 (EDT)
 * I know it's an identifier, I just don't think it's a good one. -- 12:23, March 16, 2019 (EDT)
 * I believe Porple recommended the alternative to deletion be to move it to "Yosh Fruit," seems pretty clear-cut to me. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 12:38, March 16, 2019 (EDT)
 * Okay, I wasn't sure if that was the exact title he was referring to. Still, it's usually just named "Fruit" in nearly every recent appearance, so I've changed the proposal accordingly to address complaints. 16:45, March 16, 2019 (EDT)

New name
In the years since the above proposal, we've had five sources that state that these are now known as Fruit including two in-game names (Super Mario Odyssey's Fruit-Collecting Missions and 8 Deluxe's Fruit Cup). I say we should move these to Fruit (Yoshi) or Fruit (Yoshi Food) on account of Fruit being the most recent, in-game name. PrincessPeachFan (talk) 08:56, August 12, 2022 (EDT)
 * Agreed. These things look much more like apples than true berries, anyways, and AFAIK berry was only used in one source. 09:38, August 12, 2022 (EDT)
 * Well, if any of you want to start a new proposal about it, then go ahead. It's been three years since that proposal, so more than enough time has passed for it to be overturned. I am definitely in agreement that it should be moved to or even . Frankly, I'm surprised that it's not listed in the About section on top of the Fruit article yet. Arend (talk) 04:27, September 3, 2022 (EDT)

Rename to Fruit (with an identifier): Round 2
See all discussions above. It's been a couple years since a previous proposal about renaming "Berry" to "Fruit", which had failed back then. But as time passes, it becomes more and more obvious that Nintendo wants to refer these things as fruits rather than berries. Super Mario Galaxy 2 calls these "fruits". New Super Mario Bros. U calls these "fruits". Super Mario Odyssey calls these "fruits". LEGO Super Mario calls these "fruits". Even the Booster Course Pass from Mario Kart 8 Deluxe calls the Fruit Cup the "Fruit Cup" and not the "Berry Cup". And Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam, which actually does have something called berries, doesn't even feature the same design: as you can see in this video, the berries in Paper Jam look completely different and might as well be split off.

This really only gives us two instances in which these fruits are actually called berries: the Mario Mania guide for Super Mario World (which are promptly called "apples" instead in Nintendo Power), and the European version of Puzzle & Dragons: Super Mario Bros. Edition (in which the American version calls them... "fruits"; not to mention that this was the last appearance of the spotted design from the Super Mario World artwork rather than the more apple-like design from the Super Mario World sprites that were already in use since New Super Mario Bros. Wii).

And to top it all off, literally every language listed here calls them "fruits" in some way (including Japanese). In fact, all but two of them exclusively calls them "fruits" rather than "berries"; seemingly, only Spanish and Italian used both.

So all of this is pretty straightforward evidence that this article should be moved to "Fruit", but as you may know, we already have an article on Fruit in general; Fruit in general that also have made important appearances in various games. Meaning that we should rename it to "fruit" with an identifier, and then it becomes difficult what identifier to use.

To me, the simplest and clearest would be, as most of the time, the games only allow Yoshis to eat/collect them. Alternatively, one can call them instead, which gives these fruits a clearer distinction (not to mention it also matches a more current Japanese name), but it's not used as often. Personally, I'm fine with either option.

Proposer: Deadline: September 21, 2022, 23:59 GMT

Rename to "Fruit (Yoshi food)"

 * 1) Primary choice, per proposal
 * 2) Also my primary choice, since unlike Yoshi's Egg, they're pretty much known as "fruits" in every single English-language source. Also, the Fruit article can be dealt with in a separate proposal if we absolutely must do so.
 * 3) Per proposal. Even if I am personally partial to "Yoshi Fruit", the source material clearly prefers "Fruit".
 * 4) Per proposal.
 * 5) Per proposal.
 * 6) Per proposal.

Rename to "Yoshi Fruit"

 * 1) Secondary choice, per proposal
 * 2) My pick as unique names are generally less confusing than identifiers, and it's not like we rename Yoshi's Egg to "Egg (Yoshi)" whenever there's a new game that only refers to them as eggs.

Comments
I'm not sure if the identifier is the best one to use but this thing highly overlaps with the the generic fruit in terms of function that it's kind of hard giving it a satisfactory article name. Yoshi fruit doesn't occur as often as I like, one being in a Prima guide, another being derived from a file name from Odyssey. 20:40, September 7, 2022 (EDT)
 * Yeah... like I stated, it's kind of difficult what identifier to use here. The ones I suggested are probably the best ones I could come up with, but if anyone can come up with something even better, they can suggest it right here. Alternatively, this article could just be named, while the already existing article Fruit gets the identifier instead. But then the question becomes what identifier to use for that article? I suppose would describe the current Fruit article well, but that one doesn't really sit right with me. Arend (talk) 21:54, September 7, 2022 (EDT)


 * I don't think "Yoshi food" is an appropriate identifier either, since the other Fruit would be considered "Yoshi food" as well and can cause some confusion. Though I would support the option of giving this fruit the identifier-less name and giving the other fruit the identifier (maybe something like "Fruit (general)" or "Fruit (generic)") since the former is more prominent and unique to the Mario franchise. 10:00, September 11, 2022 (EDT)
 * does sit a bit better with me than . Now, I could maybe add another option "Rename to 'Fruit', and rename the already existing 'Fruit' article to 'Fruit (general)'", but I think I'd rather wait a month after this proposal succeeds and then figure what to do with it, as currently, Fruit also describes examples of single fruits (cherries from SMB2, bananas from the DKC games, the fruits from this article): some of these examples could be moved here (namely, the entire Mario and Luigi series section), or be split off or moved elsewhere (e.g. the beans from Pyoro in the WarioWare games, and maybe the Fruit Bombs from DK Jr.). Yet it doesn't include ALL other examples of single fruits, either. So perhaps a different proposal is needed for that article on whether the general fruit article should describe all instances of singular fruits appearing, or only the instances in which multiple fruits appear in a game (e.g. like in Mario Sunshine or Yoshi's Story), so I think whether or not to decide if that article needs an identifier is more appropriate to discuss then. 19:36, September 11, 2022 (EDT)

@LinkTheLefty: You're forgetting that Yoshi's Eggs are usually given their straightforward name in most of their appearances, whereas Yoshi fruits are always referred to as "fruits" regardless of source. 22:31, September 7, 2022 (EDT)
 * It's actually relatively uncommon in the mainline Yoshi platformers. Either way, it's a valid name and will cause less headaches with the other fruit article in the long run. Source priority exceptions are always possible, especially via proposal. LinkTheLefty (talk) 08:59, September 8, 2022 (EDT)