MarioWiki:Proposals

 http://img33.picoodle.com/img/img33/9/9/17/f_propcopym_9045f2d.png A proposal section works like a discussion page: comments are brought up and replied to using indents (colons, such as : or ::::) and all edits are signed using the code. Signing with the signature code (~) is not allowed due to technical issues.

How To
 * 1) Actions that users feel are appropriate to have community approval first can be added by anyone, but they must have a strong argument.
 * 2) Users then vote and discuss on the issue during that week. The "deadline" for the proposal is one week from posting at:
 * 3) Monday to Thursday: 17:00 (5pm)
 * 4) Friday and Saturday: 20:00 (8pm)
 * 5) Sunday: 15:00 (3pm)
 * 6) Every vote should have a reason accompanying it.
 * 7) At any time a vote may be rejected if at least three active users believe the vote truly has no merit or was cast in bad faith. However, there must be strong reasons supporting the invalidation.
 * 8) " # " should be added under the last vote of each support/oppose section to show another blank line.
 * 9) Any proposal that has three votes or less at deadline will automatically be listed as "NO QUORUM." The original proposer then has the option to relist said proposal to generate more discussion.
 * 10) All proposals are archived. The original proposer must take action accordingly if the outcome of the proposal dictates it. If it requires the help of a sysop, the proposer can ask for that help.
 * 11) There are two topics that cannot be decided on through a proposal: the first is sysop promotions and demotions, which are decided by Bureaucrats. Secondly, no proposals calling for the creation of Banjo, Conker or Sonic series articles are allowed (several proposals supporting them have failed in recent history).

The times are in EDT, and are set so that the user is more likely to be online at those times (after work/school, weekend nights). If a proposal is added on Saturday night at 11:59 PM EDT, the deadline is the next Saturday night at 8:00 PM. If it is a minute later, the deadline is a day plus 15 hours (Sunday), as opposed to a day minus 4 hours.

CURRENTLY: , 28 2024 (EDT)

New Features
''None at the moment.

Removals
''None at the moment.

Smash Bros. Moves
In light of recent applications of our importance policy, many users would like to see minor Super Smash Bros. subjects merged. One such suggestion has been to merge the special moves with the characters’ pages. For example, Hand Grenade, Remote Controlled Missile, Cypher, C4, and Grenade Launcher would be merged with Solid Snake.

This merge would decrease the emphasis placed Smash Bros. while still retaining all Super Smash Bros. content. If this proposal passes, the following assurances are granted (1) ALL content from a special move page must be transferred to its respective character page BEFORE the special move page is blanked. This includes pictures. (2) ALL special move pages affected will become redirects to their appropriate section in their characters' articles. In other words, you will still be able to easily look up each special move. It will simply no longer have its own page. (3) The Super Smash Bros. Special Moves page will still be in place.

If you would like an example of how this would look, please see here. Please note how the image templates and stub templates carried over. Trophy information when applicable has now been moved down to the larger trophy information section. The only real change is that images have been made smaller. For the purpose of example, I have including the SSB Moves template at the bottom of the section. Unless people really want it to be there, when/if I merge the moves, I will not be including the template. Let me know.

Proposer: Deadline: 17:00, October 2, 2008

Support

 * 1) - Per myself above.  This merge will retain all information about the Smash Bros. series, but it will present it in a way that will not give unequal attention to the Smash Bros. series over other cross-overs.  We need to either follow the importance policy by measures such as the one described in the proposal or we need to modify the importance policy.
 * 2) - I completely agree with Stumpers.
 * 3) - You have my full support on this incentive. It's about time this happened.
 * 4) - I'm all for this. From what I gather, moves pertaining to Mario characters will be merged as well, yes?
 * 5) - This is a great idea. The wiki needs a little less focus on the SSB series, and some more on the Mario series; I don't want anything to drastic to be changed, so this seems like just the right way to do things.
 * 6) - Per all.
 * 7) - I suggested this ages ago. I didn't want to create a proposal after the debate didn't work out. This step should be all right to put some weight onto the Importance Policy, it was only a theory before.
 * 8) -I didn't like this initially but when I looked a stumpers test page It made sense.Per all.
 * 9) - For those who want the Smash series info, it is still there, and for those who want less focus on the Smash series, there would be fewer pages about it.
 * 10) - Per all. It'll make navigating the SSB information easier as well.
 * 11) - Per all. It makes navigation more easy, and less stubs.
 * 12) - Per all. Could look up on SmashWiki.
 * 13) - Per all
 * 14) - This is the Mario Wiki, not the Smash Wiki or the Nintendo Wiki.  Merge 'em.
 * 15) YES! YES! They're all unnecessary!
 * 16) I highly agree on all of this.  Making separate articles about special moves is foolish and a big waste.  After all, they're THAT character's moves, so place them in THAT character's article.  Already I merged Lucario's special moves onto its main article.

Oppose

 * 1) It's not like the move articles are stubs or anything, they can stay.

Comment
Just a question to those responsible for the random quote generator: many Final Smash articles include quotes from Masahiro Sakurai. Will we need to remove these in the event that the character page has a quote at the top? Alternatively, we could merge quotes into the actual text, like so: In his Super Smash Bros. Dojo! entry for Peach Blossom, Masahiro comments, "[insert quote here]."

Booster: It does also apply to Mario characters. 23:19, 25 September 2008 (EDT)
 * About your first comment, you could just use  23:41, 25 September 2008 (EDT)

Well, this what I've actually wanted (and some others) and this will definately prevent vandalism. Srsly, we would have to patrol 195 articles if there isn't a merge. Plus, I think somebody went a little too far when they put that Diddy Kong can perform "Diddycide". That's a technique that is only meant to be on Smash Wiki. Are you going to merge the moves for the Mario series characters too, Stumpers?
 * I was considering only merging non-Mario characters, but then Blitzwing and Stooben suggested to me that we merge all the moves. So, yes - that is the current plan: Fireball, Cape, Mario Tornado, and Jump Punch will all be merged with Mario.  If anyone would rather this not be the case, please speak up.
 * Say wut? Fireball is in more than just Smash Bros., you know. Screw the importance policy.
 * Please try to remain civil.
 * Just as Mario's cape form from Super Mario World will not be merged with Mario, neither will the article Fireball. We will be merging the SSB section from the article into Mario, but in its place we will be lightly mentioning that fireball became an attack, with a link to the Fireball section in the Mario article.  As much as its worth, I can tell you that it is not my intention that this proposal lead to all major Smash Bros. elements being merged.  I'd like to refer you to Yangus, White Mage, and Knuckles.  They have articles, and so I see no reason why we should merge characters from Smash Bros..
 * Sorry about giving my honest opinion being rude. Anyway, I'm all for Stumper's last comment, although i think Final Smashes should have there own pages. Another option could be to make an article like " Movesets (Super Smash Bros.)".
 * I'm going to say that this idea of yours will not work. FSs will be merged with teh characters.
 * Actually, it might work. It's an idea I toyed around with after Cobold brought up the topic of merging SSB articles.  Phailure: don't forget that you can make your own proposal even if this one passes that would change the way we present data.  So, for example, if this proposal passes and we merge the pages as shown above, you could then make another proposal offering up an alternate solution.  Just some advice from having watched a bunch of proposals going down: give people time to get used to this proposal and to weigh the pros and cons before you put forth another proposal.  If people are just starting to use a new system that they just approved of, they're unlikely to notice its defects, and therefore more unlikely to vote for a new system right away.
 * Stumpers:Works for me. R.O.B. 128: Fine... but at least Giga Bowser should get a page, since he was a boss in Melee.
 * Noted. I'll be sure to only merge the Final Smash portion of the article.  If you'd like a mock-up done I'd be more than happy.

M&SG: Please do not act upon a proposal until it has passed. Did you make sure that all text and images were transferred over?

New Super Mario Bros. Level Articles
Looking through the site, I noticed we have some articles on each level of New Super Mario Bros.. I'm not exactly sure why. The levels of Super Mario Bros, Super Mario Bros. 3, The Lost Levels, etcetera, are all merged with their respective world article. (Ex: World 1-1 (SMB) is non-existent because it is already in World 1 (SMB)). So here's my proposal: merge the NSMB level articles with their respective world articles, just as we have done with the aforementioned articles. Please take this as a rough example.

Proposer: Deadline: 17:00, October 2, 2008

Merge

 * 1) - Per my statement above.
 * 2) - Per St00by.
 * 3) - There's no back story or info or even a name for NSMB levels except that what their theme is (eg forest or snow), and who will go to Mario Wiki to find that out?
 * 4) - There is very little info that can be put into those articles and all the levels in a world are prety much the same.
 * 5) - See below comment.
 * 6) - We should merge them because they are just levels and they dont have names
 * 7) - This wiki doesn't need articles for every little thing. Those would be to many stubs! I support this just as I support the merge for the Special Moves.
 * 8) - Changing my mind because of the featured article thing.  Plus, the mock-up shoes that it's a better system to drift around gathering information.
 * 9) - Per all above.
 * 10) - Per all above. ._.
 * 11) Per all!

Keep Separate

 * First, what makes a level article-worthy? Super Mario World levels all get articles (which I think is good), so why not do the same for NSMB, SMB, etc.? The only difference here is that they don't have proper names, but most SMW level names only consist of the world name and a number as well. Levels definitely have enough content to write about in separate articles, so IMO we should allow level articles for any game. Secondly, we're talking about levels (you can write so much about them!) of a main Mario game, so I don't feel they should be merged into one single page. Finally, if we do merge them, we can't put the single levels into separate categories (such as "Castles and Fortresses", "Grasslands", ...).
 * 1) -Per Time Q,and I have found that merging levels loses info.
 * 2) - Per Time Q; in fact, if the proposal is declined, we could start a PipeProject to complete all of these levels.
 * 3) - Per TimeQ.
 * 4) - Per all.
 * 5) - Per all. We are a Mario Wiki, and we have and need the most Mario info we can get, and just having like two sentences on the World article isn't info; a description of the level in an article is info :D
 * 6) Per all.
 * 7) - Per Time Q. All levels, IMO, should have their own page.

Comments
Time Q: I do see your point, and I actually expected someone to point this out. The reason why I didn't propose that SMW levels get merged, is because they do consist of more that solely numbers. Ex: SMB, SMB2, SMB3, TLL, YI, YIDS, NSMB, SPP, and probably a few others each have levels titled "World 1-1", or "World 2-1", etcetera. SMW does actually name their levels, albeit some of the names are less "wordy" than others. But, SMW has levels with titles like "Awesome", "Gnarly", and even "Yoshi's Island 2". While the all games have official level names (even if they are just a sequence of numbers), SMW is the only one to give their levels more original names. If we were to separate every "World 1-1", "World 1-2", "World 1-3", and so on into their own articles, we would have at least 32 disambiguation pages with the aforementioned titles. So, in this aspect, I find merging the NSMB level articles to their respective world articles makes navigation all-the-more easier. 02:29, 26 September 2008 (EDT)
 * You've got a point here, but I don't think navigation would be that much of a problem. How would having disambiguation pages make navigation more difficult? I'm still all for putting brief level summaries into their respective world articles (and linking to the actual level articles). The only thing that separates the "article-worthiness" of NSMB levels from the "article-worthiness" of SMW levels is that the former do not get names. But we have a lot of articles about things that don't have (official) names.

How is there a disambig,And dosent every one of the pages list the levels at the end of the page?

World 1 (SMB) isn't even complete yet! Before we consider whether to carry this action out or not, shouldn't someone complete all of the incomplete world/level articles first?
 * Time Q: The excess amount of navigation templates and disambig pages seem rather unnecessary. (I do admit I have created a lot of navigation templates. :P) We would have at least 32 disambiguation pages if we are to separate all levels from their respective world articles. Take SMB3's world articles for example: Grass Land is a nice, long article that gives a descriptive entry for each level in that world; not to mention SMB3's levels have practically the same level names. In my opinion, it would be better to have eight long, descriptive articles on worlds and their levels, rather than around 40-60 stubs. Expansion is possible on the level articles, but if we were to do that, we might as well separate any and all levels from their respective world article. Bob-omb Buddy: 1) Merging articles does not always mean loss of information. It depends on who's doing the merging and how it's being done. Take for example when I merged controller articles to their respective console article: I left the lengthy description of each controller exactly as it was and merely implemented it into the respective console article. Pikax: I can finish World 1 (SMB). 17:12, 26 September 2008 (EDT)
 * I agree that a few long articles are better than dozens of stubs. In fact, I'd even like to see the SMW levels merged, because empty articles like Chocolate Island with a list of stubs like Chocolate Island 3 are, frankly, irritating: you hope for information, but get next to nothing. If people want in-depth descriptions of each and every article, they should use Walkthroughs or FAQs (which we should find for them and link to, in order to continue to be a helpful, worthwhile resource for them); if they want to understand the Mario series as a whole, the sections within the larger world articles should be enough. However, Time Q's "what makes a level article-worthy?" point is valid: all levels should get merged, or none at all; because inconsitancy is just as distasteful. And finally, I think the numerous disambiguation pages can't be phased out anyway: because, people are still going to search for "World 1-1", and it will still apply to a multitude of articles, even if "1-1" is only the name of a single section within an overworld title. -

ZOMG to Garlic's comment! I was about to work on the level/world articles, but then this Proposal popped up. That's weird :blink:
 * Ah, then if it turns out that we will have to expand on those articles, I shall help as well :D!
 * Well, since a good portion of the opposers believe that the world articles wouldn't give enough level description (as opposed to the level articles staying separate), why don't you guys take this as an example of what I intend said world articles to look like? Though it currently contains only two level descriptions, I think you can get the gist of what the world articles would look like. 20:53, 26 September 2008 (EDT)
 * St00by thats a great idea. Of course, we would have to expand on the sections alot, but it won't take that long. If alot of NSMB players put their effort into it, that article would become huge. -
 * Thank you, Super-Yoshi! As you can see, I've expanded the example even more. I even added a section for the world's cannon. As of now, the article is over 8,500 bytes, and it is only halfway completed. So, if the article were to be written in this format, it would roughly be around 15,000-17,000 bytes, which is more than long enough to be a Featured Article. The article lacks several images, sure, but with enough searching I'm fairly sure we could find level maps or screenshots for each level.

What would be the problem about doing it like here? Brief level descriptions in the world article (that could be longer than in the Yoshi's Island example), with links to in-depth articles. This looks just fine to me and navigation is easy too. I really don't like the idea of merging stuff that has so much content you can write about. Plus, it's from a main Mario game, so it is of major importance. Plus, if we merge all levels into world articles, we can't put the single levels into separate categories.
 * I agree with TimeQ. Plus if we keep the images, wouldn't they make the pages' appearence look worse?
 * Time Q: That is a fine idea, but as Walkazo said, "inconsistency is distasteful". The brief level info can be hard to do, especially when summing up many levels that have similarities. The levels in NSMB all have the same atmosphere, enemies, and all that – the only difference being that they require different strategies to make it through the levels. IMO, the level summaries in World 1 (YI) are pretty poor. (No offense.) TWG: Well, take World 9 for example; each level has a map image, but they are laid out tastefully, just like World A. And, if that weren't to work, we could always do it like in this article.
 * I'm not understanding why Stages with names are superior to those without names. For instance DKC level articles are not affected by this proposal, while having about the same, if not less, information contained in the article itself. I don't beleive that names are what makes some articles inferior and less important, but rather the content, which can indeed be improved, if enough users work on it. I will contribute to NSMB, SMB, and other games that I may have. After all, levels could be anywhere from 1-1 in Super Mario Bros, or Bob-omb Battlefiled from Super Mario 64. All should be treated equally, not discriminated by game.
 * They're not superior. I just didn't think about it at the time. :P Also, I don't think the paintings in SM64 are really levels. I think their worlds... Correct me if I'm wrong.
 * Well, technically, they are "Courses"; but no other game, I don't think, uses that name, so. Also, even "Galaxies", are part of "Domes", which may be considered as Worlds, and the galaxies as levels within the domes and areas. I also noticed that I think the proposal changed to just NSMB now...
 * Well, unless anyone objects, I think this can cover SMW, YI, and DKC level articles as well. It seems like a good portion of peoples' reasoning for this proposal is that they are levels, (that operates in both support and oppose). As for SMG and SM64, Maybe we should make another proposal pertaining solely to those.

Mario Kart Arcade GP 2 Special Items
I propose that we should merge all the items for foreign Mario characters (such as Mametchi and Pac-Man) into one page, since we cannot expand them too much. They aren't really needed, and just keeping them on one page would be the right thing to do since most of them are stubs. For example, the Mame Block contains such little information, a template, and a picture. Pac-Man and stuff aren't even related to Mario, except for the fact that they did appear in MKAGP. But thats it, so why should we have all these new articles? We shouldn't be expanding on little articles like that, we should be focusing on more Mario related things such as Chocolate Island 2 or stuff. I propose we merge all these items into one page.

Proposer: Deadline: 14:00, October 4, 2008

Support

 * 1) - Per my comment above.
 * 2) -Per S-Y and my brief comment below.
 * 3) - Per S-Y.
 * 4) - Yeah, they should all be in one page and the old pages should be redirects
 * 5) Per S-Y No matter what we can't write more on the Pac-man page with out telling every game he has been in or tell about his charter saying some Mario related.
 * 6) - Per all. Half the items don't have articles yet anyway.
 * 7) - Pauline's Items were merged, and she's a Mario character.  It's both about importance and amount of information, both of which are working against these items having separate articles.  As long as all the information is kept, just in a merged form, I am fine with this.
 * 8) - I've never played any of the GP games, but this is a good idea. You have my support.

Oppose

 * 1) - The reason i oppose is because they are part of the mario universe just like mario vs wario

Comments
Well, we do have articles on foreign character items in Super Smash Bros., so aren't they technically at the same level according to the importance policy?
 * Example, please.
 * Garlic Man: Yes and no: while they are from foreign games, any Marioverse character can use them.
 * I was just about to say "Yea but items such as Poke Balls can be used by Mario or Yoshi and anyone else, but these items cannot." when I got an edit conflict XP
 * Iggykoopa, can you rephrase your comment? I do not seem to understand what your trying to say, sorry.

It seems like you are saying that the game charecters are not that importent because they were never released in america but your wrong even though they were never released here they are still part of the mario universe and should be treated as such.
 * No im not saying the game characters arent important, and Tamagotchi and Pac-Man are in the Americas. Im saying that we arent going to expand on those articles, since such few MWikians live in Japan, and most of them I guess are inactive. So, the best possibility to save space and other stuff would be to merge these articles into one. Also please sign your comments with
 * Ok but then it gets down to what is important and whats not and then before you know it this becomes wikepidia
 * Im not really getting your point, please rephrase it.
 * S-Y: Oh, I didn't know that Mario characters cannot use the foreign items. I understand now :).

To Iggykoopa on the topic of us becoming like Wikipedia, several things should be addressed (1) Whether something has appeared in one region (such as Japan) or in multiple regions is of no importance: American, Japanese, European, etc. exclusive content all should get equal treatment. Our inability to do so because most of the editors are American does not mean that we cannot strive to make it so. I believe the proposer misused foreign - he probably meant non-Mario series. (2) There is a big difference between the Mario universe and the Mario series. The Mario universe is connected to many other fictional universes, including Legend of Zelda, Sonic, Pac-Man, etc. However, this does not mean that the Legend of Zelda series is part of the Mario series: they are two independent series of games that have occasionally crossed-over with one another. The Super Mario Wiki covers the Mario series, not the Mario universe. There is simply too much content to cover if we covered the entire multiverse of which Mario is one small part. Giving equal coverage to, say, Legend of Zelda as we did to Mario would require that we have articles for the Hookshot, Midna, and Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening to name a few subjects. However, these crossovers are still part of the Mario series, and so to accommodate that we cover any part of a non-Mario series that has crossed over, such as these items. However, we do not give equal coverage. We would not go in-depth talking about all the many times Link saved Hyrule, just his involvement in Super Mario RPG, Smash Bros., etc. Because we cannot go so in-depth we sometimes need to merge articles together because they are so short. This is one such case. The subjects will still be given the same treatment as before, people will still be able to search for them and be brought to the appropriate page, and so one and so forth. The only difference is that they are on the same page. 00:30, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Garlic: Thanks for understanding. Stumpers: Thanks for telling Iggykoopa about this.
 * Of course. The fact that we're a Wiki about a series rather than the universe is a little hard to grasp - especially for new users, so I'm happy to describe it.
 * what i was saying is that if we decide what is important then other things start geting merged such as the super luigi storys charecters
 * But Super Luigi Stories is Mario related, while these are not. They've breifly just appeared in one game along with Mario and the gang. -

Super luigi is only in one game while there are to mario kart gp games
 * Yes but he is part of the Big Eight, so he should have an article about him. The other characters from MKAGP DO NOT appear in any other Mario game, just one. Super Luigi has its own article because a character thats actually from the Mushroom Kingdom can use that. Now do you see what Im trying to say?
 * Iggy, your fear of us going merge happy is appreciated, but you don't need to worry about it: it's an issue that has already been thoroughly discussed and decided upon. Yes, we do merge implied characters and characters who are inseparable, such as Ashley and Red, but we draw the line there.  You don't see us merging Penguin Patrol with other minor Paper Mario characters, for example.

Iggykoopa Ok but think about this do the races take place in the mushroom world.
 * No one's going to deny that. ;) We just got over a big discussion about what could be considered canon and non-canon, and the verdict was that no fan opinions should make something be considered non-canon, so no one is about to call those items non-canon.

Iggykoopa But the problem is if you do that what happens to the rest of the items also some items still appear in mario kart wii

Changes
''None at the moment.

Miscellaneous
''None at the moment.