MarioWiki:Proposals

List of Talk Page Proposals

 * Create the page: Drilldigger (Discuss) Deadline: January 17, 2016, 23:59 GMT
 * Split the sections Attackathlon, Toad Quiz and Lakitu Info Centre into and  (Discuss) Deadline: January 18, 2016, 23:59 GMT
 * Split Gold Bar and (Discuss) Deadline: January 18, 2016, 23:59 GMT
 * Split Banana and (Discuss) Deadline: January 19, 2016, 23:59 GMT
 * Split from Rope (Discuss) Deadline: December 29, 2015, 23:59 GMT Extended: January 5, 2016, 23:59 GMT, January 12, 2016, 23:59 GMT , January 19, 2016, 23:59 GMT
 * Use only when pages clearly have an informal appearance (Discuss) Deadline: January 15, 2016, 23:59 GMT Extended: January 22, 2016, 23:59 GMT
 * Decide if Scorchit should be moved to (Discuss) Deadline: January 28, 2016, 23:59 GMT
 * Move Baby Dragoneel to . (Discuss) Deadline: February 1, 2016, 23:59 GMT

Writing Guidelines
None at the moment.

New features
None at the moment.

Removals
None at the moment.

Require short detail of change in future Support/Oppose/Comment/etc proposal headers
The reason for this is similar to the proposal above - when adding a vote or comment on a page that has a prior (usually settled) proposal, you get sent to the equivalent section for the first proposal. Similarly, the section link from RecentChanges will also send you to the wrong section in the same way (in either case, you're sent to, e.g., when the section you're looking for has an anchor along the lines of, even though the header is just ====Support==== ).

It wouldn't have to be long or complicated (e.g., this proposal could have headers of something like "Support/Oppose requiring short detail"/"Comment on requiring short detail"), the point is just for it to be unique on the page (although simplicity of rule-writing means that it would be better to include the first proposal on a page in it). Headers in past proposals wouldn't need to be changed; this would only apply to proposals, including Talk Page Proposals, started after the new policy would come into effect.

Proposer: Deadline: January 17, 2016, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) . Per own proposal.

Oppose

 * 1) - Too much screwing around for something as superfluous as where you appear in the page after saving. The Table of Contents brings you to the right header, and when you try to edit, you're in the right section, so there's really no problem. Maybe someday the MediaWiki bug will be fixed, but in the meantime, it's not worth complicating basic header stuff.
 * 2) Aside from per Walkazo, since the page load bug is a bug, it's not something we can really fix.
 * 3) Per Walkazo and the comments below. It's a MediaWiki glitch that most likely won't be fixed in the near future. All this does is add unneeded tedium to the process of proposal creation; even though  does this, it doesn't mean we should all be required to do this. I get that we're trying to work around something the can possibly get very irritating (I actually talked to Porple about it because at that point, I didn't know it was a well known MediaWiki glitch), but like I said, all this rule (for lack of a better word) would do is add unnecessary and unwanted tedium to creating proposals; and besides, the only thing it would really be absolutely necessary for is TPPs because on this page, it doesn't take much effort to go from one proposal to the next, because scrolling from Proposal A over Proposal B to Proposal C does not take much effort at all. To sum up, it really should just be an option, not a requirement.
 * 4) Per all. I'd rather ignore the bug than go through an extra step in making creative proposal headers.
 * 5) Per all.

Comments
Ghost Jam: Isn't this what this proposal is all about, though? Circumventing a bug? 19:05, 11 January 2016 (EST)
 * Exactly. We can't fix it (it's more or less baked in - the only ways to technologically fix it would be [a] prohibit more than one section with the same name on a page by throwing an error when someone tries to save it as such or [b] make section anchors something like a random alphanumeric code with no connection to the actual header text. The former is a more extreme version of what I'm suggesting, and no-one anywhere wants the latter), but we can work around it. - Reboot (talk) 00:42, 12 January 2016 (EST)
 * Or just ignore it. It's a minor bug: not worth bending over backwards over and adding another, confusingly fiddly step to proposal-making - one that promotes inconsistency and needless wordiness, at that, which will then look terrible in the archives forever. Both the long-term and short-terms costs far outweigh any benefit from avoiding a glitch that causes a second's worth of inconvenience at a time: we've shrugged and carried on for over 8 years, and we should continue with that path of least resistance. - 01:12, 12 January 2016 (EST)

Split the Mario & Luigi and Super Mario RPG consumables into separate articles
Remember back in the day when the word "stub" was thrown around like it was going out of fashion and everything smaller than Bowser's article was a stub? This resulted in a lot of articles being clumped together into one superarticle, which is kind of like Superman if he had to wear Kryptonite. What I want to bring up today involves several articles merged during that period, including Super Syrup, Ultra Syrup, Max Syrup, Super Mushroom, Ultra Mushroom, Max Mushroom, and plenty more (including subjects that were affected long after the merges). Every article that I want to split will be listed in the comments. So, the reason I want to split these articles is because there's no reason for them to be merged in the first place. They're individual items with individual names, individual effects, individual buying/selling prices, and individual locations that the games treat like individuals. In some cases, they even have individual appearances, and no, some items having the same appearance is not enough to keep them merged when everything else about them is different. The clumped articles themselves aren't all that pleasant, trying to hop from several topics in rapid succession when that information would be more easily presented in separate articles. Also, having a bunch of Foreignname templates stacked on top of each other is not good in the slightest. I was one of the people who supported those proposals, but looking back, I simply cannot see how the articles are "clearly not working seperate". In light of the recent splits, I thought this would be appropriate.

Proposer: Deadline: January 17, 2016, 23:59 GMT

Split

 * 1) Per proposal.
 * 2) Per proposal.
 * 3) – Consistency is key. Per proposal.
 * 4) - Per Time Turner.
 * 5) Per proposal.
 * 6) Per all.
 * 7) Should've happened earlier.
 * 8) - Per TT.
 * 9) - Cautious support. I agree with the general thrust of the proposal, but there does have to be a threshold below which two things are similar/minor enough to go on the same page. One-sentence pages, even if notionally complete, don't help anything. (I presume that last sentence doesn't apply to any of these specific splits)
 * 10) Per all
 * 11) Per proposal

Comments
Full list: I'm tempted to thrown in the Peppers alongside this proposal, but they're not quite in the same boat as the other ones. There's also the Mushroom that the Triplets give, which has a completely different effect to a regular Mushroom, but I don't know how the article would be properly identified if split.
 * Mushroom - Super Mushroom, Ultra Mushroom, Max Mushroom, Mid Mushroom, Bad Mushroom
 * Syrup - Super Syrup, Ultra Syrup, Max Syrup
 * Nuts - Super Nuts, Ultra Nuts, Max Nuts (on a side note, shouldn't it be "Nut"?)
 * Nut - Super Nut, Ultra Nut, Max Nut
 * 1-Up Mushroom - 1-Up Deluxe, Double 1-Up Mushroom
 * Drumstick - Hot Drumstick, Fiery Drumstick, TNT Drumstick
 * Candy - Super Candy, Ultra Candy, Max Candy
 * Any others that I've missed
 * It most definitely should be Nut instead of Nuts. It shouldn't be renamed right away, but it should be renamed after you've made the different Nut articles. You're allowed to link to just even if that would generate a red link.  20:17, 9 January 2016 (EST)

@Reboot: We're not giving articles to every subject under the angry sun (see: Fan (souvenirs), Lightwand), but the articles that I've listed all have more than enough information to support themselves individually.
 * I'm not sure if I understand the plan for the mushrooms. Is the intention to give the Super Mushroom from the various RPGs its own article(s), or merely move the information around to the existing one? Either way, it should be noted that the Mid/Super Mushroom and Max/Ultra Mushroom had identical Japanese names. It would appear to be another example of a translator – Ted Woolsey in this case – providing one-off separate names which would later be changed or reverted. The mushrooms in Super Mario RPG do heal different amounts of health, but those values are also inconsistent within the Mario & Luigi series itself. Mid/Super Mushroom definitely seems straightforward enough, but there is confusion with the Max Mushroom since it was actually introduced separately from Ultra Mushroom in the Mario & Luigi series, and it performs just like the original Super Mario RPG version in Superstar Saga and Partners in Time. That's not even considering Super Shroom and Ultra Shroom from Paper Mario (albeit colored differently). How does that all work out under this proposal? LinkTheLefty (talk) 03:00, 10 January 2016 (EST)

Pretty late in the proposal, but should Woo Beans, Hee Beans, Chuckle Beans, and Hoo Beans be added to this list? They're currently in Bean but I feel they can get their own article here. Does this proposal cover those? 00:14, 15 January 2016 (EST)
 * At this point, it's too late to change the proposal, but to me, they're in the same boat as the Peppers. I would like to see them split ASAP, but this proposal was meant for reverting the merges of yesteryear, and I felt that neither the Beans nor the Peppers were really a part of that. From day one, they were a part of the same article before the merges even started, so it would have been misleading to include them here. That's what talk page proposals are for!
 * I actually was about to contact you in your talk page, but better ask here now: are you planning on creating separate article for those aforementioned beans? It doesn't seem like something that would be a contentious issue since the four are pretty distinct enough, but I could be wrong... 00:28, 15 January 2016 (EST)
 * Considering their different locations, different appearances, different uses, and different names, I'm all for each Bean having its own article. I might also extend this to the stat-up Beans from later games, though I don't know enough about them to give a definite "yes this is a good idea".
 * Let's just stick with the Superstar Saga beans stuff. I think the stat-up beans shouldn't get their own page; as far as I remember, they all have the same sprite and don't differ as drastically as the Superstar Saga stuff. 00:47, 15 January 2016 (EST)
 * The Beans have different sprites in Dream Team, and considering they all increase a different stat and can be found in different locations, I wouldn't mind bringing them along for the split.
 * Fair point. Let's do that too. 16:19, 15 January 2016 (EST)

Split the Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga and Partners in Time badges into separate articles
'''Note: This proposal is not advocating to split the lists from the Badge article into separate articles. It is advocating for every single badge in those lists to have their own, respective articles (excluding Bowser's Inside Story and Dream Team). This is to prevent any confusion.'''

Please, put away your snap judgments and hear me out.

The tables in the Badge article are not adequate as fully comprehensive sources of information. At best, they can be used to summarize the basics of each badge, like the tables in various game articles, but they would benefit greatly from having individual articles. The locations of each badge beyond "this entire area", as well as when they can be obtained in shops as the story progresses; a more detailed description of each of the badges' effects, and while this may not apply to several badges in Superstar Saga that only increases stats, every badge in Partners in Time has a secondary effect, and there's no reason to drag them down just because of a few outliers; each of the badges' names in other languages, and no, I don't consider the giant and garish list to be a suitable alternative; both their base buying and selling prices; and this is just what I cam come up with off the top of my head. In theory, several of these elements could be stuffed into the tables, but at some point it'd just become bloated to the point where it'd be better to split the badges out of convenience. The tables are already showing signs of bloat: frankly, a table that requires ten footnotes and two sets of asterisks on top of that is laughably inefficient. Even if they don't have a unique sprite, they're still clearly unique items with unique attributes. There's also another recent proposal from me that wants to split some items that also share appearances, so that alone is not strong enough to keep them merged. If the game treats the items like individuals, we should do the same. From where I'm standing, this is a natural follow-up to my last proposal that involved splitting the Paper Mario badges. This can only increase the wealth of information on the wiki and limit the need to rely on an imperfect list.

As there are notable differences between the use of badges in the first two and later two games of the Mario & Luigi series, this proposal only covers said first two games.

Proposer: Deadline: January 24, 2016, 23:59 GMT

Split

 * 1) Per proposal.
 * 2) Per proposal.

Comments
Wait, but don't we have these articles on the two subjects already? 00:14, 18 January 2016 (EST)
 * You thought the same thing with the last proposal. This proposal is not about splitting those lists into individual articles, but giving individual articles for every item in those lists.
 * Sorry. I'm probably too tired and too stupid to read things through before farting something out of my trap. But is there something the Partners in Time list misses? Only the Superstar Saga list seems convoluted as hell unless I'm being mistaken (being the dumb person I am to repeat the same comment) and even so, why don't the Bowser's Inside Story and Dream Team badges need a split? And what about the battle cards from Paper Jam? What will you do about those? Do those even have names? 00:36, 18 January 2016 (EST)
 * One step at a time. As I described in the proposal, the lists miss out on detailed locations (exact drop rates as well), names in other languages, specific buying/selling prices, and more detail for a badge's effects. While the PiT table isn't as convoluted, it's still missing a wealth of information that could be easily added if the Badges were given individual articles. The BIS and DT Badges were left out due to their radically different nature than the SS and PiT Badges. If this proposal goes well, they can be covered in due time, alongside the Battle Cards (which I, admittedly, don't know much about).