Talk:Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam

Two pages
We have a little problem here.
 * Turn the article with "and" in the name into a redirect then 14:04, 16 June 2015 (EDT)

A separate article for Paper Mario?
Now that we know Mario and Paper Mario are separate characters, should we have separate articles? -- 21:20, 16 June 2015 (EDT)
 * Well, if Paper Mario is another mario, should we can separate, if have a article about Dr. Mario, we can separate every character from their paper version!
 * Not now. What was revealed at the E3 was a scant amount of information. To split the character articles would be making assumptions based on limited information available. Waiting for more information, on the other hand, always works. Let's be cautious about this until, maybe the game is released. Finally, this action would open questions on creating Paper Bowser, Paper Peach, etc., and that's something I really don't want to do. Now is too soon. 21:27, 16 June 2015 (EDT)
 * Not necessarily, according to the plot, the Paper Mario universe is contained inside a book that Luigi ends up knocking over. So it's still Mario, Peach, Bowser, and all them, just from an alternate universe. In the Paper Mario universe, they ARE the Mario. They ARE the Bowser and the Peach. For that reason, I don't think they should be split. -- 21:38, 16 June 2015 (EDT)
 * For the record, this was also brought up here. Anyway, like I said there, I agree that we should wait before hastily splitting info out of our central articles. We don't know how many characters appear in duplicate in this game, and we don't know if this game means all the PM games are separate like Dr. Mario (in which case, what pages get split: just the characters here or all the character who appear in both, or is there a cutoff, like how Nurse Toadstool doesn't have a page, etc.), or if it's isolated and only requires separate pages for the extra characters and only for this game. - 21:58, 16 June 2015 (EDT)
 * It appears that we will probably get more questions on this concerning matter. We now have yet another question on this. 22:28, 16 June 2015 (EDT)

Beans
In the article, it says that Beans are present in the game, but I can't find it anywhere in the directed video reference, footnote #3 (just shows the stream is stopped and an image of Reggie). I also looked through minutes of Treehouse footage uploaded to Youtube, but had no luck (I could of missed it). Can someone please put a timestamp on another video on where exactly they are shown or post an image on the talk page. Thanks! --Pokeguy721 (talk) 11:02, 17 June 2015 (EDT)

Nevermind, I'm so dumb. The video does continue but only after minutes of Reggie staring you down. Still though, if someone could upload a timestamp of where the Beans are shown or an image to the talk page, that would be great. --Pokeguy721 (talk) 11:10, 17 June 2015 (EDT)
 * Just look at this. Crazy8MK8.png King Koopa (talk) MK8 Bowser Icon.png 11:20, 17 June 2015 (EDT)
 * Ah, thank you very much! I found it! At 22:40, Mario wins a Stache Bean after beating Petey Piranha. --Pokeguy721 (talk) 13:19, 17 June 2015 (EDT)

Additional Basic Items Confirmed
In this video here, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIbIN49uoDk, at 7:37, it is confirmed that Syrup, Nuts, and Mushrooms return as Items. --Pokeguy721 (talk) 13:31, 17 June 2015 (EDT)

New things
Source: －yhynerson1 (talk, contribs) 08:02, 8 October 2015 (EDT)
 * There is a new Bros Attack which involves rockets.
 * A move that makes Paper Mario stretch in order to let Mario and Luigi walk across pits.

Famitsu Scans
http://nintendoeverything.com/scans-roundup-ace-attorney-6-animal-crossing-amiibo-festival-mario-luigi-paper-jam-more/

Among other things, these scans confirm the area the game takes place in along with confirming that Kamek, Bowser Jr. and Toadette will appear (with Paper counterparts for the former two). Also, not sure if worth mentioning, but the Paper Clown Car got a face lift.
 * Much of the information has been added, but the Paper Clown Car you are referring to is the one of Bowser? Because Bowser Jr.'s one is identical, it's just bent like Paper Peach.--Mister Wu (talk) 18:25, 14 October 2015 (EDT)
 * I was referring to Bowser's, yes. In one of the screenshots, you can see both Bowsers in their Clown Cars and Paper Bowser's Clown Car looks identical to how it normally looks in the games. The one in Paper Mario 64 and Thousand Year Door looked different. Also thank you for adding the information.
 * You're welcome, although the work was also done by users SmashFan48 and L151! I have seen screenshots of the original Paper Mario that I took a few months ago on the Wii U VC version and I must say that in that game, the Clown Car is angry, so the eyes are different because of that. Other than that, maybe some proportions were changed, but I don't see much difference.--Mister Wu (talk) 19:51, 14 October 2015 (EDT)

Can't Edit
Where's the "Edit" tab? I want to replace the logo with the boxart much like I did in the 3DS Article
 * It's right of the "discussion" tab, the logo of the game is part of the body of the page, this is why you can't edit it directly but you have to edit the whole page. Remember to sign your posts here, by the way!--Mister Wu (talk) 17:53, 18 October 2015 (EDT)
 * The problem is that you're not autoconfirmed yet, so the "edit" tab says "view source" instead. Just wait a day or so more and you'll be able to freely edit semi-protected pages like this one. - 18:32, 18 October 2015 (EDT)

Nabbit?
As seen in the first picture here (http://flare-blog.tumblr.com/post/132219279376/nabbit-confirmed) it appears that Nabbit will be making an appearance in the game (The picture is from one of the icons on the site).

Check the Nintendo Direct
Nintendo Direct gave more details to the game
 * Well, the Nintendo Direct has still to come, so we surely didn't watch it... yet!--Mister Wu (talk) 06:30, 12 November 2015 (EST)

About Paper Bowser
Have you noticed, that Paper Bowser in-game has the appearance from Sticker Star, but in his artwork, he has the original one (look at his back spikes). Piotrek1113 (talk) 09:15, 12 November 2015 (EST)


 * That's weird. Maybe they decided to go back to the original styles some time after E3? -- 10:58, 12 November 2015 (EST)
 * I can confirm this didn't happen. The screenshots from the Famitsu article and the site clearly show the rings around the spikes.--Mister Wu (talk) 11:27, 12 November 2015 (EST)
 * In my opinion, we can wait for today's Nintendo Direct (if the game appear in it), if they change it to his old paper look in-game, then we could put this screenshot in the pre-released and unused content. If not, then it could make a trivia point.-- 11:31, 12 November 2015 (EST)
 * Even in the Nintendo Direct trailer Paper Bowser has rings around the spikes, so it's just the artwork which is using the classic Paper Bowser.--Mister Wu (talk) 18:16, 12 November 2015 (EST)

English version footage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HQBCKD-sHg The user has uploaded a lot of footage from the english version of the game. It's mostly stuff from the beginning. Additional details can be found here: https://www.nintendoworldreport.com/hands-on-preview/41529/mario-n-luigi-paper-jam-bros-3ds-hands-on-preview

Japanese Trailer
A new Japanese trailer just dropped. It confirms several things including the appearance of Tower Power Pokey, King Bob-Omb, The Koopalings, Papercraft Luigi and Papercraft Kamek. See Here: http://nintendoeverything.com/japanese-mario-luigi-paper-jam-introduction-trailer-amiibo-video/

This trailer also confirms the presence of normal Kamek boss in the game. Can't edit the page so I'm just reporting it here. See Here: http://nintendoeverything.com/japanese-mario-luigi-paper-jam-introduction-trailer-amiibo-video/ at 3:56. TheMysteriousMagician (talk) 09:43, 21 November 2015 (EST)

Tower Power Pokey
I realized something: I can be wrong, but the Pokey that is assisting the Tower Power Pokey in his boss battle is slightly larger than a normal Pokey. I compared the Pokeys that appear in video (1) with the pokey that appear in video (2) and in the picture (3). It's posible that Kamek may have enlarged one Pokey to assist the boss or that exist one Tower Power Pokey in Mario & Luigi world that battle alongside Toer Power Pokey from Paper Mario world. Also, Tower Power Pokey, in Paper Mario: Sticker Star is giant, and in Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam, the Pokey that assists him has the same size of the boss.

Videos and Images:

(1): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHEt1zoFXZM&feature=youtu.be&t=1m11s

(2): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4GE6_MMjFI

(3): http://www.nintendo.co.jp/3ds/aynj/trio/img/btn02_on.png

References to paper Mario games
These need to be added such as the paper world debuted in Paper Mario, the paper airplane move is from Thousand year door and many of the bosses are from Sticker Star.

Has anyone seen Toadsworth?
Just wondering. 107.216.152.42 22:49, 22 November 2015 (EST)

Technically this question should not be in this discussion board, but no, he has not been spotted. But he'll probably show up eventually. He's been in every        -       previous M&L. TheMysteriousMagician (talk) 22:20, 28 November 2015 (EST)

New Footage
Tealgamemaster has uploaded his review of "Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam" which is filled with new footage. Among other things, Paper Petey Piranha, Wiggler, Wendy and Roy are confirmed as bosses, Sombreros Guys make a return appearance and Papercrafts of Princess Peach and Bowser Jr. are confirmed (the former a playable one and the latter a boss). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7CueM5wF5w

King Boo
Unable to edit the page, but if someone could add in M&L King Boo that'd be swell: https://youtu.be/nuj0RKmBwcA?t=979

Video of every boss ever.
Tealgamemaster has uploaded a video containing every boss in the game. https://youtube.com/watch?v=ZssjFzaWIng

A new article for Paper Mario, revisit
So the game is out and pretty much everything is known. So shall we revisit the topic of creating an article for Paper Mario? I'm not sure if said issue got solved elsewhere, such as the forums so if it has, pardon for being a bit late (don't have a forum account so, you know). Anyway, I'm getting off topic. Should we create an article for Paper Mario as a separate character? I mean the game does showcase some unique abilities to him and the game does practically call the Paper Mario universe a separate dimension (even if it's only for the game). I wanna get some input on the topic before jumping straight to a potential proposal on the matter. Thoughts?
 * I do not think a page for Paper Mario is necessary. Do not forget to consider the game's story. Luigi dropped a book that drop ​​out many paper characters of the paper world. In this book, Paper Mario is Mario and all the other characters are the same as in the real world.-- 23:44, 5 December 2015 (EST)
 * You do have a point there. I guess if we did this for Paper Mario, we'd have to do it for almost every Paper character in the game and that's probably twice as unnecessary.

Story Finished.... ish.
Ok, I just finished writing out the entire story. It's my first day back on the wiki and boy what a way to start off my return. Except it really isn't done at all. The grammar is attrocious, I'm missing a few scenes, I haven't mentioned Starlow or the Lakitu, and etc. I've got to go now, so, I'm humbly requesting that the rest of the wiki finish the job. If you need help finding the information, youtuber Tealgamemaster has a completed playthrough of it. Bye. Toad  and his brigade!  23:54, 5 December 2015 (EST)
 * Alright, I'm not actually leaving, I'm just tired of writing story. THink I'll do some gameplay bits before I go though. Toad-brigade model CTTT.png Toad   and his brigade! Toadette model CTTT.png 23:54, 5 December 2015 (EST)

Also, does this guy count?
Ok, I'm also asking two questions here. Throughout the game, an individual Paper Goomba plays a major role in the plot. He reaccurs as an enemy in two tutorials, pilots the Megacrinkle Goomba, plays a major role in the plot twice, teaches you Battle Cards, acts like a guide character through two dungeons, betrays you and the focus of an entire dungeon is given to catching him. He plays roles, and the game acknowledges he is an individual character with his own distinctive personality. He's also a key antagonist to the plot. I've included him as his own character, considering how major he is, but there's one problem: he never gets a name. The closest I could find were: The Sunbeam Plains Goomba, Crinkled Goomba, or Battle Card Goomba. I think he should count due to how important he is, but what does the wiki thinK? Toad  and his brigade!  00:58, 6 December 2015 (EST)Toadbrigade5

I've noticed him quite a lot too in videos of the game I watched. I think he shold be noted.

It seems that he plays quite a role. I assume that if it is decided to make a page for him, it'd be called "Goomba (Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam)", or maybe "Paper Goomba (Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam)". MarioComix (talk) 03:51, 6 December 2015 (EST)

So if there is no one against it, then should I create Goomba(Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam) or should we do a proposal first. Toad  and his brigade!  12:05, 6 December 2015 (EST)
 * Why create another article? Just mentioning there's this recurring Goomba in the main Goomba article should get the point across too. SmokedChili (Talk) (Thoughts) 09:26, 7 December 2015 (EST)
 * Underthat logic, why should Toad get an article? My argument is that this guy is a character, and characters get articles. Except some people don't believe they should get an article if they're named after a species (Too blurry between character or just representative). He plays a big enough role for an article, but it's whether he's a character or not that gets debated. If we decide he counts, he gets an article, otherwise, he'll be mentioned in the story sections like you said. Toad-brigade model CTTT.png Toad   and his brigade! Toadette model CTTT.png 19:37, 8 December 2015 (EST)
 * Indeed, why give this "specific" Toad its own article? Or better, why give Kamek one? Even with Treehouse establishing him as a separate character from Magikoopas, recent sources such as his Super Smash Bros. for Wii U trophy and Super Mario Memorial Book released in Japan contradict this and merge him with Magikoopas. Same with Toad, that book makes no distincion between character and species. Also, how would we know if this character is named after the species, and not vice versa? My point is that these "established characters" may even not be characters, and by your argument shouldn't get articles. But if this Paper Goomba gets its article, then surely other generic enemies, like Koopa Troopa, should get their character articles, because there are sources which makes them their own characters. SmokedChili (Talk) (Thoughts) 06:25, 9 December 2015 (EST)
 * See the proposal of merging Toad with the species for reasons. Toad-brigade model CTTT.png Toad   and his brigade! Toadette model CTTT.png 19:18, 12 December 2015 (EST)
 * You could have at least cited some of those reasons for your arguments instead of telling me to look for them myself. Seriously, what exactly am I supposed to refute? SmokedChili (Talk) (Thoughts) 09:38, 17 December 2015 (EST)

Hard Mode?
I've heard rumours of one, but nothing about it can be found on this page, and it wasn't unlocked after beating the game. Is there one in the game, and if so, can information on it be added to the wiki page? User:Cheat-master30

I completed the game and I have not unlocked any hard mode. --Sonic98 (talk) 15:53, 27 December 2015 (EST)

Then it must have been referring to the Lakitu Info Centre quests and their hard modes then. User:Cheat-master30

Bestiary
I think someone should make one for this game, I would do it but I don't have the game yet and there is barely any information on the internet.JigglySmash (talk) 02:13, 23 December 2015 (EST)


 * How's this, then? It only has basic information (LV, EXP, Coins and item drops), but it's a start (unless someone's able to dig into the game's code and post the stats here). --Zootalo (talk) 17:16, 23 December 2015 (EST)

Characters of paper
At this point you think we should create a separate page for the characters of paper? Obviously this would be true for the enemies and everything else. After all, the most important figures have been shown to have a character all their own. The Koopalings even joke that they have met their paper counterparts. Moreover Paper Luigi, although in this game makes only a cameo, unlike to Luigi of the "normal" world can speak. --Sonic98 (talk) 16:02, 27 December 2015 (EST)
 * As I have already clarified, creating a page for all paper characters is not necessary. In the book that appears in the game, Paper Mario is Mario, Paper Luigi is Luigi, like all other characters. There are named "Paper Mario", "Paper Luigi", "Paper Bowser" in this game just to make a distinction between the Bowser of the Paper world that come from the book and the Bowser from the real world. In the Paper Mario series, the characters are named Mario, Luigi, Bowser and Peach, not Paper Mario, Paper Luigi, Paper Bowser and Paper Peach. So, that implied they are the same.-- 16:13, 27 December 2015 (EST)
 * At the very least, Paper Mario definitely deserves his own page. The extent of what the separate Paper Mario page can cover is debatable, though, since you could say it's a different character in the first Paper Mario installments (where he was referred to as Mario and not his own thing) while in Paper Jam, he's clearly a separate person from Mario and even called "Paper Mario". 16:14, 27 December 2015 (EST)
 * But, Paper Mario also come from the book, so in the book, he is the Mario. If Paper Mario was in the real world and was really a separate person, a page for him would be necessary, but not now in my opinion.-- 16:20, 27 December 2015 (EST)
 * You could also say Baby Mario and Baby Luigi came from a time machine and is technically Mario and Luigi in their own world. But, no, they're also treated as their own individual and have their own battle stats and action commands. Paper Mario is his own party member, with his own stats and attacks, and is treated significantly as his own individual in this game. You can make that argument for the other characters, but as for making an article on Paper Mario, I firmly say we should make it. 16:23, 27 December 2015 (EST)
 * In their world that are made of paper it is normal. So I'm not surprised that they are simply called "Mario" and "Luigi". Indeed this does not prove either that the same character or characters that are different. The mere fact that they come from different dimensions is a guarantee that they are not the same person. Also because the other when Peach meets his counterpart, claims to know that there was a book that contained another dimension but did not know it existed seriously.--Sonic98 (talk) 16:31, 27 December 2015 (EST)

From an out-of-universe POV, the Paper versions are separate characters. They coexist along their flesh counterparts, interact with them, in some cases, (as BLOF pointed out) are separate characters in gameplay term with their own moves, stats etc... etc. They deserve separate articles. The real headache is determining if the pages about Paper Mario, Paper Bowser... ec should also talk about the other Paper Mario games. --Glowsquid (talk) 18:00, 27 December 2015 (EST)


 * Dr. Mario is only a separate character from normal Mario in Smash Bros., yet his article also covers his other various appearances as just Mario but a doctor.


 * -Toa 95 (talk)

Things to keep in mind: while it's true that Paper Mario is simply Mario's counterpart in another dimension, I don't think that's enough to disqualify him from getting his own article. There are lot of similarities with Baby Mario's situation:
 * Although he's supposed to be the same character, Baby Mario has been seen alongside Mario on several occasions, whether because of time travel in PiT, or for some unexplained reasons in the spinoff games. Similarly, Paper Mario is supposed to be the same character, but travels across the Kingdom with Mario because of the Paper book.
 * Baby Mario clearly has a different personality, different stats, different abilities, etc. than Mario. The same goes for Paper Mario.
 * Paper Mario is given a separate name in SSBM, SSBB, SSB3DS, and M&L:PJ.
 * I don't think it would be very bothersome to create articles for all the Paper characters. We have Baby Mario, Baby Luigi, Baby Peach, Baby Donkey Kong, Baby Wario, Baby Bowser, Baby Yoshi, Baby Bowser, Baby Daisy, and Baby Rosalina. So why not articles for Paper Mario, Paper Luigi, Paper Peach, Paper Bowser, Paper Bowser Jr., and *maybe* the Paper Koopalings? My point is: there's not that many, so it wouldn't exactly be a mess.

I think the idea is worth considering. Personally, I don't see why Baby Mario is worthy of his own article but not Paper Mario. Even Metal Mario has his own page, and he was originally a power-up. Mr. L has his own article, but he's just Luigi (or Paper Luigi, I guess). Dr. Mario has his own article, but he's just Mario with a lab coat. Sheik is just Zelda disguised. You get the point.

18:36, 27 December 2015 (EST)
 * It's been established that noteworthy aliases of characters get their own article from the getgo (another example being Wario-Man. Alter-egos and aliases already make a character "different" if you get my drift. However, Paper Mario has appeared as his own entity ONLY in Paper Jam, while Baby Mario has multitude of spin-off appearances as his own character to back him up. Same with nearly all the other baby guys. Paper Mario is not an alter-ego of Mario, he was simply Mario in another art-style. It's only games like Paper Jam and Smash Bros. that call him "Paper Mario" to differentiate from regular Marios and Paper Jam was the first game to make Paper Mario his own distinct entity, hence why it's now and not before that Paper Mario will get his own article. 18:42, 27 December 2015 (EST)
 * Good points, I agree with what you jsut said. I thought about Wario-Man but I didn't include it because I thought it might be considered to be a power-up. So far, only Baby Wario and Baby Rosalina have a single appearance. Otherwise, I agree that Paper Mario didn't deserve his article before. As you said, it was mostly a different of art style. 19:00, 27 December 2015 (EST)


 * All games in the series, with exceptions of SPM, start a book. This should be sufficient evidence that shows that the series of Paper Mario takes place in a world apart. So logically a page about Paper Mario should cover all the games of the Paper Mario series. However, I think it makes no sense to speak of simple art style. Ok it's only fiction, but I think it is absurd for a video game that in some games the characters are made of flesh and bones and other paper.--Sonic98 (talk) 12:51, 28 December 2015 (EST)
 * I do think we should cover the events of the four Paper Mario games in the upcoming Paper Mario (character) article. But prior to M&L:PJ, there wasn't a whole lot of evidence. As for the art style thingy, should we create a special article for Yarn Yoshi because he's not made of the same material? What about a Yarn Kirby article if this were WiKirby? 17:20, 28 December 2015 (EST)
 * Yarn Yoshi is very debatable since all his abilities are mainly the same as normal Yoshi, just modified to make use of the whole yarn deal. We do have an article on Yarn Balls, but even if they act the same as eggs, they have slightly different effects rather than just popping at an enemy. Yarn Yoshi I feel behaves more similar to Yoshi than most alternate styled characters.
 * Well, the point is moot anyway, since it seems we agree on what we should do. 19:09, 28 December 2015 (EST)


 * What should we do then? Another proposal?--Sonic98 (talk) 13:24, 2 January 2016 (EST)

Gear/Item Lists
Anyone want to help with these? Because we need to have lists for gear and battle cards, and there are tons I likely don't have at the moment. So yeah, if anyone else has the game and can start recording where they got different items and what their effects are, that'd be nice.

Also, I saw this posted on Mario Boards (the wiki's forum):

http://imgur.com/z2jtd9S

Apparently the Wellington/Farmer Boots gear exists in this game too, but the poster never said where they found it. Any ideas?

User:Cheat-master30
 * I have a French game, so I can't really help, but I'd suggest messaging the poster. 10:49, 30 December 2015 (EST)

Possible Glitch?
The Balloon Blast attack seems to be "glitchy", to get an excellent you need to press the bros. corresponding button just after they pass the button on screen however Balloon Blast doesn't always seem to register this and instead will pull the screen back more but not pump up the balloon. This seems to happen randomly when the attacks used. Another which is not a glitch but im bringing it up, is that the enemy special attack sequence's, such as the bowser jr. paper plane throw, can not turn up from the first time in battle (At all). This being said when such a enemy attack is performed later on from when said attack is first introduced, the tutorial will not play explaining what to do. - Cubeguy(talk)

Split the sections Attackathlon, Toad Quiz and Lakitu Info Centre into Lakitu Info Centre and Arcade (Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam)
Right now the page has the three separate sections about the Attackathlon, the Lakitu Info Centre and the Toad Quiz. I believe the pages should be merged into Lakitu Info Centre for various reasons: Edit: now added the possibility to vote for splitting to just Lakitu Centre. This edit was made the same day I started the proposal.
 * The Lakitu Info Centre is not a sidequest, but a mandatory step of the game multiple times during the course of the story.
 * Toad Quiz is ultimately 5 missions of the Lakitu Info Centre.
 * Consistency with other games: for example, Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story doesn't include the section about the Special Attacks challenges, but has it in Cholesteroad, which is where they are played. Similarly, Arcade (Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam) should include the info about the Attackathlon, as well as the Boss Battle Ring and Papercraft Battle Ring one, just like The Gauntlet contains similar info from Bowser's Inside Story. In Mario & Luigi: Dream Team, instead, they take place in a place somewhere in the various location: it would be stupid to make articles for them. The Arcade, however, is itself a place, just like Cholesteroad.
 * The Lakitu Info Centre is missing all the missions and info about them. However, I think that making a table explaining them would make the article pointlessly long, and so it's best to have the info in its own page.
 * For similar reasons it's best to separate Lakitu Info Centre from Arcade (Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam), as they're two completely different places.

Proposer: Deadline: January 18, 2016, 23:59 GMT

Split into two pages

 * 1) Per proposal.
 * 2) Per Tsunami.

Comments
Not sure that the Lakitu Info Centre and Arcade should be on separate pages. For the rest, I agree with the proposal. P.S. I know you should not spam here but ... you could check the proposal on the Robo-Drilldigger? I think it's very important.--Sonic98 (talk) 06:56, 4 January 2016 (EST)
 * My reasoning was the last point: the Lakitu Info Centre is one place, the Arcade is another. I'm not really sure either, so I think I'll just add an option for merging in a single page.