MarioWiki:Proposals

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Discourage OGG Extension (Not Format)
The *.ogg extension is a generic extension to describe the *.ogv and *.oga file formats. To put that into perspective, that would be like clumping all *.jpg, *.png, and *.gif file extensions to be under *.img or something *.html, *.xml, and *.rtf formats to be included with what we expect of the *.txt extension. Yes, those files all contain easily readable text if opened in Notepad, but it would be very hard to tell each file apart if all HTML, XML, and RTF files all had the TXT extension instead. To make things more easily identifiable on MarioWiki, I propose that *.ogg be a discouraged extension for a file of this type when uploading. Sure, MediaWiki can detect the MIME type regardless of extension, but that's not immediately clear when sifting through categories.

Xiph.Org Foundation, the developers of OGG, recommend the extensions I am proposing. VLC Media Player already registers all known extensions of this standard. My guess is back in the day, OGG was just audio (such as DX-Ball 2) but things were getting more complex so they needed to have a better extension to represent the complexities of the standard and discourage the old extension.

To be clear, I am not looking to discourage the format, just the one extension of the format. OGV and OGA are perfectly safe. There are around 1,000 files to check and move. Let's get them changed before we end up with a insurmountable amount of files to make changes to. I think Pywikibot can do this stuff automatically.


 * Files tested to be moved successfully:
 * File:SMS Opening.ogg to File:SMS Opening.ogv
 * File:VBWL-Title Screen Theme.ogg to File:VBWL-Title Screen Theme.oga


 * Categories to sift through (recommended order to do them in):
 * Category:Fair use video samples
 * Category:Fair use music samples


 * Affected templates that need consideration:
 * - Update it to allow for OGV and OGA as well? Code for row one but apply similar code for each row after it:
 * - Behaves like  but for OGV only
 * - Behaves like  but for OGA only
 * - Only works for files with extension OGG. Deprecate it?


 * Related proposals:
 * Proposals/Archive 29

Proposer: Deadline: May 02, 2017, 23:59:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) Per proposal.
 * 2) Per proposal.
 * 3) My browser (at least the one I use the most as I also have Google Chrome, but I not really going to mess with ogg) doesn't even support OGG, OGA, or OGV. But, OGA and OGV are very different from each other. Banning use of OGG for both audio and video sounds good. But, what about applications if they ever become part of this wiki? What will happen to those? (I am only asking to point out all possibilities.) As for vandels that happen during this, there is a option not to show/hide bots which I have chosen to hide them and this is the only thing I have chosen to hide due to when bots work, it makes a lot of changes reflected on Recent Changes. Overall, I will support this decision.
 * 4) Per proposal.
 * 5) Per proposal.
 * 6) Per proposal.

Oppose

 * 1) There is apparently no technical difference between .oga and .ogv, while there are differences between .png, .jpg, .gif, etc, which renders that point in the proposal moot. I can't really imagine a scenario where only having .ogg would hinder the wiki in any aspect, and besides, .ogg files are relatively infrequently uploaded and used here. Banning the .ogg extension in place of .ogv and .oga seems like a lot of hassle for little benefit, as like you said, thousands of files would need to be moved; however, even more articles than that would have to be edited in order to correctly reflect the moved files, which is a pretty big task even with bots. This is a good idea on paper, but the benefits of implementing this seem to be outweighed by the sheer level of editing that needs to be done across every article that uses .ogg files.
 * 2) Per Lord Bowser. It indeed sounds rock-solid on paper, but if you think more deeply about it, why would it even be necessary to ban one extension when the two umbrella extensions work very similarly to each other, yet are used differently? If anything, I say we ban OGA and OGV because sometimes having less options can actually benefit and relieve more than harm. Unless you can give some other reason for banning OGG, I'm afraid I'll have to oppose.
 * 3) The idea to split the sound files and video files into their own compartments sounds like a good idea on paper, but I think the creation of another category specifically dealing with .OGV versions of .OGG would be more useful in the long run, as we don't have to bend backward to change this rather common file extension across the wiki. As the above two stated, I think too much energy required is worth the hassle of what amounts simply a name change with very little benefit to it whatsoever. Furthermore, .OGG is the default extension for many programs I use such as VLC and Audacity, and I think it's just too much of a hassle going through the extra step of renaming the extension to meet these proposed standards. If you want to rename extensions from .OGG to .OGA or .OGV, no one is stopping you, since that's technically allowed, but I don't support an official, outright ban on .OGG formats either.

Comments
Sort of related...do we still need ? I thought browsers supported this by default. -- 17:43, 25 April 2017 (EDT)
 * With HTML5 supported video playback with the version of MediaWiki MarioWiki uses, that feature seems worthy of . -- 18:01, 25 April 2017 (EDT)

And what exactly is the difference between .oga and .ogv? Is it really significant enough to warrant banning the .ogg extension? This should really be further elaborated upon for those less experienced. 03:01, 26 April 2017 (EDT)
 * Technically, no difference between *.ogg, *.oga, and *.ogv. They are all defined by one standard, as I linked at the very beginning of the proposal. For MarioWiki, it would make maintenance easier by making all files by the standard easily identifiable by file extension rather than by MIME type. We should assign *.og a  for  a udio, assign *.og v  for  v ideo, and forbid *.ogg rather than use the extensions interchangeably with audio and video data streams. By posing these restrictions, we can integrate and  better than what is currently being done with the restrictive  for *.ogg files only. -- 04:33, 26 April 2017 (EDT)
 * No article editing required because the templates force .ogg, .ogv, and .oga for, , and respectively. Only one edit will take place, on . The rest is moving. You don't specify the extension if you use the template. Not sure why but OK. All that needs to be done is the move bot work, which I have my credentials hooked to, so this work is all me. I have done thousands of edits before at a time with Category:Beta Images by moving the remaining hundreds of images to Category:Pre-release and unused images. It got done in two hours or so. If a vandal runs rampant during the transition, I immediately stop the bot so that way Special:RecentChanges doesn't render the vandal unnoticed. -- 17:33, 26 April 2017 (EDT)

, this is just a browser issue. Chrome supports MP4, WebM, and OGG/OGV/OGA. Internet Explorer just MP4 (automatically) and WebM (with a codec installation by Google). For some reason, Internet Explorer forces you out of being able to play OGG/OGV/OGA. Just open up the file in an external application, such as VLC Media Player.

Applications? You mean like *.exe, *.zip, *.rar, *.7z? That's 's decision and I don't blame him for it.

People have brought up to flag my account as a bot temporarily but I don't use the bot often enough for it to be worth it. -- 18:21, 26 April 2017 (EDT)
 * When I say applications, I am referring to something else the OGG covers which can be viewed on the Wikipedia site provided. 18:26, 26 April 2017 (EDT)
 * I'm not entirely sure how MarioWiki can take advantage of those added perks of the OGG standard. Because of how the four media templates are coded, we just create additional templates for each extension and amend the switch.


 * .ogg
 * .ogv
 * .oga
 * .ogx
 * .ogm
 * .spx
 * .opus


 * If I really had my way with the four templates, I would delete the subpages and code everything into . -- 18:56, 26 April 2017 (EDT)

Xiph.Org Foundation recommends the extensions I am proposing. -- 18:56, 26 April 2017 (EDT)

Again, I'll be doing the work to get things up to standards. It's a one time deal. Title changed so the file extension is acceptable but should be moved to a better extension. -- 20:39, 26 April 2017 (EDT)
 * Yeah...dissuasion is usually better than an outright ban. 21:02, 26 April 2017 (EDT)
 * @Wildgoosespeeder, I've read everything, and I understand what you want to do, but I don't entirely understand why. First, you mention that "it would make maintenance easier by making all files by the standard easily identifiable by file extension rather than by MIME type." From an organizational standpoint, it makes sense, but what do you mean by "maintenance," and how does keeping the .ogg extension currently complicate things? Second, you said that "by posing these restrictions, we can integrate and  better than what is currently being done with the restrictive  for *.ogg files only." Is there only an organizational benefit here, or am I missing the bigger picture?
 * Proposal now has a reason to move over each file to the extension based on standards by Xiph. Consider each subcategory of Category:Media by game. They contain a mixture of audio and video under the extension OGG in most cases (only five uploaded files are up to Xiph's extension standards). I also explain a better example with text files why keeping the OGG extension is a bad idea. Right now, is calling  only 30 times. With the switch code I can implement very easily,  could call, , or  depending on the   specified. The OGA and OGV templates were proposed, passed, and created, just never properly implemented. Also, Media/OGA and Media/OGV isn't transcluded very much compared to Media/row. The special thing about templates and categories is that if you edit the template to change its category, it affects all places it is transcluded, autosorting everything in Category:Pages with media files to go into Category:Pages with audio files and Category:Pages with video files. -- 21:55, 26 April 2017 (EDT)

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