Talk:Mario

Mario's Last Name
I would argue that the source for Mario's last name also being Mario is false. Miyamoto's quote clearly leaves Mario and Luigi's last name ambiguous, equating it to Mickey Mouse not really having a last name. https://nintendoeverything.com/miyamoto-says-marios-full-name-is-mario-mario/ --Seandwalsh (talk) 10:28, 20 November 2018 (EST)
 * That was back in 2012. Miyamoto has embraced the last name since 2015, even joking more recently that Link's full name is just like Mario's: Link Link. LinkTheLefty (talk) 10:42, 20 November 2018 (EST)

The writing is AWFUL
I needed something to listen to while I worked on something, so I had text-to-speech read out this article because I was curious. Most of the article is fine, but the "History" section is a complete and utter mess. Tons of poor grammar, spelling and grammatical errors, missing words, nonsensical statements, unnecessary information, and unrelated tangents. Everything beyond the History section is competently written, so it's just the big section that goes over all the games Mario has been in.

I'm afraid I don't have the time to fix it, but I thought I would at least bring it up here. 96.48.239.44 07:34, 19 January 2019 (EST)
 * You mean you can't? Yes, it is protected. You have to create an account first, make at least 5 edits on pages, during 4 days, and you'd be autoconfirmed to edit the page. -- 07:46, 19 January 2019 (EST)
 * Uhh... No, I said "I don't have the time" because I don't have the time. 96.48.239.44 20:43, 19 January 2019 (EST)
 * Okay... Can you provide a few examples of the "awful" writing? 02:57, 20 January 2019 (EST)

Please just remove Mario's dang height....
There is no confirmation on what Mario's "canon" height is as far as I'm aware and saying Mario's canon height is 155cm just because a Statue that said "Life Size" on it exists is an outright stupid reason to say he's over 5 feet, and it's outright insane to think he's somehow 155cm, it makes no sense whatsoever and it's offensive to short people such as myself, because I stand at 165cm and I will never grow a bit anymore. And when someone says stubby freakin' Mario is 155cm, I find that so insulting, especially when Mario Odyssey gameplay depicts Mario just a tiny bit taller than a freaking Fire Hydrant, which Hydrants are standardized at around 2 feet, and when I measured a Fire Hydrant height, it was 2'06" not to mention I measured my own head at 9 inches, and doing the math with a ripped model (from a Gmod Addon) of the New Donk Male Citizen, measured the height in heads (removing the head from the rest of the mesh and stacking the heads on top of each other), the height in heads was 7.05, I took my own height (65 inches) and divided it by 9, and I got 7.22, which means I must be taller than the New Donk City male citizen, if anything, Mario stands at 3'00" (92cm) not to mention he displays common complications of Dwarfism, for instance, he's usually bow legged and has a slight hunch back. And, I mean, unlike people who claim Mario is 155cm, at the very least I can show my work that shows how I got my answer for Mario's height, and essentially show prove, and evidence of Mario's height being otherwise - https://ibb.co/WKMm22j and to think, people have yet to convince me Mario is somehow 5 feet, and honestly, I'll probably never believe it, because it's so outlandish and stupid to think, want to know why using that "Life Size" statue is so stupid? - https://us.amazon.com/Authentic-Nintendo-Licensed-Super-Collectible/dp/B01IGY1AFA it is apparently a "Life Size" Mario plush... yet it's a completely different number in height from the dang statue... And Let's be honest, I have more evidence on my side, Against calculations? Rather have officials say so? Welp, here ya go - https://gonintendo.com/stories/293589-super-mario-odyssey-director-explains-why-new-donk-city-takes-a-r, Want More? Take more - https://www.dualshockers.com/miyamoto-explains-initially-worried-super-mario-odyssey/, notice that our key words on that second one are "Miyamoto" and "Normal People" Mario just can't be 5 feet, it makes no sense, and, well, this is probably a stupider reason I have to disbelieve it, but wouldn't it look so dang weird if a 155cm Mario were next to any anime girl of the height of 5 feet, like a lot of them are?

If you aren't mad at me for making this message and trying to defend my short height of 165cm (in imperial terms, that's 5'05"), and if you decided to take the time to look at my calculations and my points rather than outright say "UR RAWNG! UR RAWNG! IGNURINCE" or nailing me to a cross and burning it to the ground for saying Mario isn't over 5 feet tall, Thank You. GoldyFish110 (talk) 21 June 2019

Sigh... I didn't wanna ask this again, but
Please remove a certain something from this quote I put here "Mario wears a trademark cap, brown hair (although the DiC cartoons sometimes depict it as black), a black or dark-brown mustache, and overalls and is 155 cm (5 ft, 1 in) tall.[24]" That certain something is "and is 155 cm (5 ft, 1 in) tall.[24]" Please, that is false information, and completely unconfirmed. Not to mention I personally find it very insulting, as a 165cm guy, so not only is this false information, but it's insulting and a mockery toward short people. If you aren't gonna respond to my first comment where I link several sources to debunk 155cm Mario as well as showing my math, then I have only few things to assume, either you don't care about short people's feelings and think this is a canon thing just cuz Matpat said so, or no one saw my last comment. Now don't get after me for being peeved when making this comment, ya didn't respond to the last in anyway, either show me an actually valid source that isn't the stupid statue, or get rid of that one quote. Please please please please please, It's soooooo annoying when people say Mario is 155cm, and the fact the freakin' Mario wiki is saying this, I'm not surprised, they got Larry's height way wrong, and I had to go in there and fix it and state that Larry is actually shorter than Mario and is in no way the same size as freakin' Peach, which was the dumbest oversight I've seen. I'm not trying to be mean or rude, I'm just peeved that "and is 155 cm (5ft, 1 in) tall." remains on Mario's page, and the fact I was never given any response for my last comment, what, you want to keep claiming Mario is 5 feet yet at the same time, you know my math and my sources probably debunk that by a landslide? Oh dear I really apologize about the anger on this... GoldyFish110 (talk) 23? I think, I forgot to change the day so I guess I won't know, June 2019
 * First of all, if you feel insulted by a fictional character's height, yet you are taller yourself and people can actually be shorter, you might need to rethink something. People can be various heights, and Mario's 5'1" is certainly possible. There's nothing insulting here in the slightest.
 * Second, yes, the only source we have for that statement is a Kotaku article, which isn't the most credible source. Not only that, but the page being referenced is actually dead! If you can find something better, that would help.
 * Third, Mario is, again, a fictional character. His height fluctuates based on the game. Sonic is confirmed to be 3'3", yet Mario can stand about the same height in the Olympic Games. Even if he has a confirmed height or not, it doesn't really matter in terms of gameplay. 11:24, June 24, 2019 (EDT)
 * I agree with Alex95! It's subjective! -- 12:32, June 24, 2019 (EDT)
 * Well, 165cm is 5'05" and that is short, and yes, it's taller than 5'01" but how much taller? And it must be worse for people who are also full grown adults, but shorter than me, right, because of a certain reason, Honestly... I feel insulted by a fictional character's height being claimed to be over 5 feet because of how Mario was depicted next to realistic people, so this is why I feel insulted by that - https://cdn.newsday.com/polopoly_fs/1.14592066.1508804067!/httpImage/image.jpeg_gen/derivatives/landscape_768/image.jpeg and this - https://cdn.gamerant.com/wp-content/uploads/super-mario-odyssey-miyamoto-worry-new-donk-city.jpg.optimal.jpg now look at that, say Mario is 5'01" and tell me that doesn't sound like an insult or jab at people who are below 6 feet tall, just look at that, my calculations with heads, and the two sources I sent and tell me they didn't at the very least retcon Mario somehow being 5 feet, he's like, a little taller than a freakin' hydrant for crying out loud. Also, how is Mario being 155cm possible? I don't get it, I did all the math I could, and he's never that tall, compare him to objects and he's always shorter than 5 feet, and actually, when you pay attention, Mario's height is surprisingly consistent... with not being 5 feet, but rather, around the 3 foot mark. And with the heads thing, measuring Mario how I was told to by one of the articles "I thought that we needed a scale that was easy to understand. Users will wonder how high Mario can jump and how far he can fall. We thought that it would be easier for users to understand and relate to the world in which they actually live. Mario is a strong enough character that he fits in just fine in a realistic environment." They said for measuring his jump height, but I use that for measuring his Mario height, I compare him to the realistic people, and the realistic people happen to be 7.05 heads tall when T-Posed, I'm 7.22 heads tall, and I'm 5'05" and because of this, I must be taller than the New Donkers, and my estimate is that they're about 5'03" and I got 92cm (3'00") for Mario's height given the size in heads of myself and the New Donker, I must be taller than the New Donker, while I don't think my measurements were super efficient given I was forced to use imperial measurements because I didn't have a metric measuring tape and I don't actually know anyone who is 7.05 heads tall, but at the very least it makes more sense than saying he's 5'01" cuz statue said so, at least, that's the only source I know of that say's he's 5'01" and even then, there is a "Life Size" Mario Plush that is 48 inches, Also, I'm insulted because I'm short, I'm classified as short, and so is 5'01" because 5'05" is only like, what, 4 inches taller, 10cm taller. So yes, I'm taller, but not much, and I'm still classified as short...

And well, about finding something better, I did find something better, but it doesn't really confirm Mario's height, it just confirms he isn't 5 feet, it was those two sources... And I apologize for making a large comment, I can't freaking stand this, and I really don't think there is any "confirmation" and if that article said anything, can you tell me who said the supposed height of Mario?

Okay EDIT: I took a look at the dead link's name (as in, hovered the mouse over it) and SIGH, that's just the "Life-Sized" Mario statue, and as I said before, "Life-Sized" Mario plush, and it's a completely different height, as far as I'm aware, Mario doesn't have an officially canon height, but is likely around 3 feet tall, as I calculated him to be 92cm tall. GoldyFish110 (talk) 24 June 2019
 * I don't see how this is insulting, it's more supposed to be humorous. Mario's always been on the short side, but I don't really know why they went with realistic proportions for the New Donkers. Probably because of Pauline ( it also resembles Sonic '06 ). The Mario world is weird, there's no real set canon height for anything.
 * As for where the claim initially came from... Only thing coming to mind is Game Theory. I don't know what the Kotaku article said, or if they had an official story. Searching "Mario's official height" in Google doesn't help, neither does Wikipedia. I'm leaving the dead link template next to the source anyway, in hopes it can be replaced or updated later.
 * I don't think 5'5" is short, I think that's pretty average. 14:30, June 24, 2019 (EDT)
 * Actually, one of the articles I sent explains why they went with the realistic proportions for the New Donkers, I'll link it again - https://gonintendo.com/stories/293589-super-mario-odyssey-director-explains-why-new-donk-city-takes-a-r and there is this source too, but it doesn't explain anything - https://gamerant.com/super-mario-odyssey-miyamoto-worry-new-donk-city/ where Miyamoto says "Where Mario is THIS Tall and Normal People are just a little bit taller" Though perhaps you aren't listening to them because they're bad sources? Tell me, do these sources seem valid? I decided to never go with Nintendo Life sources, however, because they tried to trick people into thinking the next Cuphead game was gonna be in an anime art style. And this - https://www.ebay.com/p/Nintendo-Licensed-Giant-Life-Size-Super-Mario-48-4ft-Plush-Doll-Toy-Very-RARE/2256117198 just sort of shows why it's a bad idea to go with the statue height thing, heheh. And to be honest, what I was thinking about when people say Mario is 5'01" and I look at New Donk City, I think about a Theadore Roosevelt political cartoon drawing where for some reason they depicted him as being way cartoonishly short, and I didn't find it funny. Also, I think my height, being 165cm, it is actually short, at least in America, where I lived all my life, until now (I'm Finally free) I was much shorter than everyone there, though I didn't look too much shorter or feel too much shorter, I was just short, and I mostly only ever compared to the girls in height, even then they were taller than me for the most part, oh, and American School was the same place the teacher showed me that political art, where everyone was taller than me and I noticed it much more, and the political art making fun of short heights, that got to me, and currently living in Czech, my height doesn't feel much different around people at stores and such, I still feel like a short stack. Also, I did my calculations, and this is my math I did - https://ibb.co/WKMm22j and to be honest, with no actual confirmation on the character's height, does the height really need to be on the page? It really isn't true as far as I'm aware, and I also had problems a while back with people claiming Larry Koopa was the same size as Princess Peach, arguing with the Larry Koopa fan who probably knew what he was talking about when saying that Larry is actually shorter than Mario, from what I calculated, Larry seems to be around 74cm, or 2'05" (with pixel measurements in the 3DS Mario and Luigi games given those are my favorite games and I gave up long ago trying to calculate every single height, and I only really need one Larry Koopa height for my fan game starring Larry given I want to put him next to anime characters who have confirmed heights of their own, I even got Ludwig's official voice actor from Mario Kart 8 in it, and it was cool), and yeah, about Game Theory, that made it worse actually, and it made me miserable for a while debating the height, because people would toss my calculations aside and tell me "YA DIDN'T EVEN TRY ONLY HATIN ON MATPAT CUZ NO ONE BUT MATPAT CAN DO MATH" "U RUSHED THAT CUZ MATPAT'S IQ OF 140 PROVES HE'S RIGHT ABOUT EVERY SINGLE THING OF ALL TIME AND UR POSSIBLE IQ OF 118 DOESN'T COMPARE" and so on, though I can tell them just because Matpat is smart doesn't mean he can't make a mistake, I even more than triple-check my work and they accuse me of rushing it, lol. I actually feel like I legit want to call Miyamoto on a phone or something and ask him myself how tall is Mario, just to end the debates, lol, though perhaps that's going too far, and I don't even know if Miyamoto can speak English. Though the rest of that stuff aside, the political cartoon, sometimes jokes are funny, but I don't see how this is, it's just saying "look, see that dwarf, he's 5 feet, just like you short people! hahahaha!" maybe they should make a tall person joke and say "he's over 6 feet tall" yet display him as around twice the normal people's sizes.
 * GoldyFish110 (talk) 24 June 2019
 * Yeah, interviews are proper sources. I don't believe the Game Theory (or any of the theories), but it's popular. See this for example. It gets around.
 * Anyway, your point is completely lost on me here in the midst of this large wall of text. I already agreed what we have on Mario's height is debatable, but I'd rather we find a new source that confirms something than outright remove the one we already have. New Donk isn't the first time Mario's stepped into realistic worlds, either; take the various episodes of The Super Mario Bros. Super Show and The Adventures of Super Mario Bros. 3.
 * Miyamoto knows some English, but not a lot. I think he can understand it, but can't really hold a conversation with it. 15:37, June 24, 2019 (EDT)
 * oh, I apologize for making it so large, heheh, though I think that if Mario doesn't have a confirmed height, why bother put his height on the page to begin with, heheh, is it really nessessary? and not to mention the dead link, it used the statue as the source (some vandalizer that watches Game Theory must have put it there if you don't know anything about it), and the statue can easily be proven to be a really bad source because of this - https://www.ebay.com/p/Nintendo-Licensed-Giant-Life-Size-Super-Mario-48-4ft-Plush-Doll-Toy-Very-RARE/2256117198 also, the TV shows aren't really canon, so I don't count them, heheh. And I did calculations using the two sources, this is what I got for Mario's accurate height - https://ibb.co/WKMm22j and I would like to ask Miyamoto if this is correct, heheh, and just simply that. Also, I became so obsessed with Mario character heights because of both Game Theory making a horrible theory on New Donk City and I'm making a fangame starring Larry Koopa, and I needed an actual height for Larry, given I'm going to put him next to anime characters with confirmed heights of their own, and he'd look bizarre at around 4 feet, not to mention I don't believe Mario is 5 feet to begin with, oh, and also, I managed to get Ludwig's official Mario Kart 8 voice actor in my fan game to voice Ludwig, and it was cool, and very fun. GoldyFish110 (talk) 24 June 2019
 * Looking at the reason why you're asking, I can assure you that Mario's height is the least concern. You can draw or model Larry as being as tall as Mario and you'd still agree with official material or . If anything, New Donk City and Mario & Sonic reconfirmed how relatively important is Mario's size.--Mister Wu (talk) 17:12, June 24, 2019 (EDT)
 * I'm not sure what's to get so worked up on a source. Maybe we should change the language to "Mario's height is suggested to be 5'1'' tall, but other sources have a disparity on the height, such as the comic of a guy smacking a small Mario around, Mario being really short to New Donkers, and Mario being more 'normal' in cartoon". Mario's height is similar to its relationship to Bowser's height, being wildly inconsistent. But what is established in official bios is that Mario is intended to be shorter than normal, such as the reference to "little Mario" in the original Donkey Kong, Mei Ling referring to Mario on "the short side", the cartoon bio calling him the "the shortest, chubbiest, most comedic-looking superhero ever to have his own show," and likely more that I missed, such as the "shorty" insults. Also, we don't dismiss sources for not being "canon", Mario has no canon, so official information should always be taken into account. Not arguing that the cartoon sources are the de facto information, but if they do list a specific height for him, we have to document it. Calculations in of themselves require a lot of assumptions to be made (such as when calculating a New Donker height) and you also had to ad hoc assumptions about the possibility of a statue being vandalized, which is not good thinking. The best way to go around, IMO, is to just apply Occam's Razor and document size disparities, rewrite the sentence that implies that Mario's height is confirmed 155cm and just way it's one of the few precise sources but most are ambiguous and inconsistent like Bowser's height in relation to Mario's. 18:02, June 24, 2019 (EDT)
 * Okay, I apologize if I seemed too direct and mean, I really don't want to be, I just want to get my point across, just saying, you should still dismiss all "Life Size" Statues, figures, whatever, because as I've said before, there is a "Life Size" Mario Plush that stands at 4 Feet tall, and none of those statues seem to be the same height, heck, I even found a 4 foot Mario statue, a really old one, and it still says "Life Size" heheh. I think that "Life Size" in statues just means that it's a large size, like, Human-sized. And, while yes, I did have to assume the New Donker's heads were also roughly 9 inches, the assumption didn't inherently ruin the calculations, because while yes, the head size was assumed, but if they are around 7.05 heads tall, and I'm around 7.22 heads tall, and I'm 165cm, shouldn't the New Donker's NOT be taller than me? And 9 inches would be a very close head size for them when they have a very close height in heads to what I have. Given it takes less of their own head to make their full height, very slightly less of their own head than for me, but less of their own head nonetheless, and shouldn't their head size be a fraction smaller than my own if anything? My calculations would have been better if I knew someone just a little shorter than me with a height of 7.05 heads, but I mean, they aren't terrible, of course, I'm not asking to say Mario's height is what I calculated, because I'm aware that it is unconfirmed, I'm asking that Mario's height is removed entirely (and as I explained, the plush is also "Life Size" so Life Size in merch probably just means large sized and like a human in height)and if Mario's height is really something inconsistent, why have a height for him on the page? Ah well, I think I can edit this page now, probably because I was annoying about it (I apologize for being annoying about it, but thanks for granting me access to editing the page, I saw what was done there, the statue was swapped in for a different one that was close in size, but as I explained before, the plush, but is it okay if I just, remove Mario's height entirely, I really don't think that "Life Size" is meant to be taken literally, and is it okay if I just remove it myself now? I just wanna make sure I'm not doing anyone wrong by removing it) GoldyFish110 (talk) 25 June 2019


 * Mister Wu, I mean, if I said that if I made Larry 4 feet, it'll look bizarre, why would I make him 5 feet or bigger, that'll look worse, heheh, not trying to be rude or anything, just saying, and going "underboard" would not agree with official material, now would it. He mostly is shorter than Mario on average with most of his heights, so I'm just gonna say shorter than Mario, though it would be a great idea to calculate all his heights and figure out which one is the average, actually, then I'll change his height again in my fan game, I think Color Splash is the only exception to that rule actually (and the concept art, but he's smaller in the actual game), but that's Paper Larry, heheh, and Paper Jam pretty much established that the Paper characters are completely different from the regular characters, and even then, the sprite size is shorter, so I don't exactly know how tall Color Splash Larry is because Paper Mario decided to do me dirty by re-sizing the plane, lol. And if Mario doesn't have a truly canon height (which I agree with), why would I use a height that is around 5 feet? Just because there are statues around 5 feet? But there is a Plush that is around 4 feet. Yeah, Mario has no canon, but I still think there are standards, such as things that Nintendo have very little involvement with should not be included (this includes the cartoons) and you shouldn't take a statue height seriously. EDIT: Also, How is the height the least of my concern when I'm putting Larry next to anime characters with confirmed heights to begin with? I can't just slap 'im in there and put him at whatever random height he ends up being, I'll end up with inconsistency, and that's the last thing I'd want to deal with, heheh. GoldyFish110 (talk) 25 June 2019


 * And oh dear, I apologize for all this writing. GoldyFish110 (talk) 25 June 2019
 * See, you're making assumptions on how tall a New Donker is (no, seriously, you don't actually know how truly tall a New Donker is; relative sizes are only part of the picture) and then working on their proportions without knowing how tall they actually are. I think life-size isn't just large, it's supposed to be how Mario is sized in real life. If there are several officially licensed products disagreeing with each other, we should mention it in the article. Again, the entire point is to show that Mario's height is inconsistent, and the evidence provided reinforces that point more. My solution was to change the writing that's at odds with conflicting sources to be more line with the conflicting sources. Don't remove the source, add others and rewrite the section. 14:39, June 25, 2019 (EDT)