MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/35

Add all nozzle locations
I have noticed something. We explain locations for Blue Coins, & Fruits on Isle Delfino, but no info for where nozzles are located. Even if they're easy to find, I still think this should be explained. Players have the right to know where nozzle boxes are found. Proposer: Proposed Deadline: July 4, 2013, 12:11 GMT Date Withdrawn: June 28, 2013, 18:28 GMT

Support

 * 1) It's my own proposal.
 * 2) It's useful information to add. Per proposal.

Comments
I don't think that require a proposal.17:06, 27 June 2013 (EDT)
 * You sure about that?
 * Unless there's been an official mandate to not have the locations of nozzles written, this is simply information that we haven't gotten around to including. There's no need for a full-fledged proposal; you're free to insert the info yourself.
 * Yeah, adding information does not need a proposal (in most cases), but removing them does! As per rule #14 you could cancel this proposal anytime, and archive it. If you can't, just point here.--

Add a spoilers template
I have no idea if this was made before but I did a quick check and did not see it, ahem, to the topic, I think we should add a spoilers template to the wiki because I have seen one page in Mario and Luigi: Partners in Time to check how to solve something (which doesnt really count as story spoilers), but I looked by the story section, and I got completely spoiled on what happened, so what I say is we add a simple spoilers template to warn people of ending story stuff.

Proposer: Proposed Deadline: July 5, 2013, 23:59 GMT Date Withdrawn: June 28, 2013, 19:47 GMT

Support

 * 1) Per proposal.

Oppose

 * 1) - We have gone through this many times. We are a wiki, people must expect spoilers.

Add navigation boxes for games articles and their subpages
I propose we make boxes to navigate through games page/subpages, like this example that might be used in the Mario Kart Wii article:  Game • Gallery • Beta Elements • Glitches • Staff • Media These boxes can be placed on top of the pages to make navigation simpler than looking for sections inside the articles (even because in some pages they are spread in a confusing way). With this, we can erase incomplete or empty sections with "Main Article: List of [such game] beta elements" or "Main Article: List of glitches in [such game]" and things like this being all the text in them (like this and this).

As I said with the comment below, the box can sum every of these sections (gallery, beta elements, glitches, media, staff and quotes) in one line, so we won't need the sections just to mention the subpages exist. See this example.

Proposer: Deadline: June 29, 2013, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) My proposal, so I support it.
 * 2) Awesome idea, per proposal.
 * 3) Not just because it's the easiest way to find the subpages (as we have the content table with the use of sections), but also because all those sections can be summed up in one line.
 * 4) I find it very convenient.

Oppose

 * 1) We already have a big list of sections for an article, right near the top. Having a template for it really isn't necessary.
 * 2) Per TT. And I think placing that at the top of the pages would look ugly.
 * 3) - Completely unnecessary. The main article is where the important info is, and the ex-subpages are extra, so why would we advertise them front and center in an ugly box that distracts the readers from the whole reason they came to that main page: to read the article. The TOC will get them down to the sections that link to the ex-subpages, and if it's done right, you should be able to get there using the game's basic category too.
 * 4) Per TT and Walkazo.
 * 5) Per all.
 * 6) Per Time Turner and Walkazo.
 * 7) - Per all.
 * 8) Per all; we don't need more templates like that.
 * 9) Per all, these would just take up extra space.
 * 10) Per all.
 * 11) - I just can't say another word, Walkazo said it. other than that, I think a small entry is better than only a link.
 * 12) Per Walkazo.
 * 13) Per Time Turner and Walkazo.

Comments
But, wait, don't we have the Table of Contents for that?
 * Table of Contents? Where's this?
 * There's a big box at the beginning of an article, after the opening paragraph(s), showing the links to all the headers.
 * Oh, these, okay. But even with this, there are lots of sections to choose and still have the bunch of short sections.
 * I am not entirely sure what you're saying.
 * The sections like this one are just like redirect pages converted into sections, so they are too short. There are also the ones with examples, like this one, but they are kinda useless because there's already the link for those and more images/beta elements/glitches/etc in the section itself. With the box, all of these pages are listed in one single line with no need of sections just to mention they exist.
 * As seen here, empty redirect sections are not actually allowed, and should be replaced by succinct overviews of the pages in question (and not just random samples of the other page, although it's hard to summarize an image gallery). So that's a moot point. -

Ugly? Distracting? In my opinion, it's far better than sections that take unnecessary space.
 * Everyone's entitled to their own opinions. But you're still arguing against an organization standard that is already outdated: once they're updated, those sections won't be wastes of space anymore. -

Create pages "Remake" and "port"
A lot of users have often asked questions on "what is the difference between a remake and port" or "what is a port" and "what is a remake". Therefore, I think we should create articles on the two terms, briefly describing the definition, and some examples from the Mario series.

Proposer: Proposed Deadline: July 5, 2013, 23:59 GMT Date Withdrawn: July 1, 2013, 23:51 GMT

Support

 * 1) Per what I said above.

Comments
If we're going to create terms like that, would it be an idea to also create an article 'Game'. It may be obvious to everyone what it is, but still.

In my opinion, having the terms on the Glossary should be enough. --
 * I agree with Tucayo.

It is kind of obvious what the terms mean, but the main reason for creating them would be to list examples from the Mario series.

This poll should be for "port" only, considering there already is a remake page.

Create an archive system for Talk Page Proposals
Proposal says what it is on the tin. I'm not thinking something radical, I'm thinking more along the lines of the current proposals archive with them listed in order with colours signifying whether it passed, failed etc. Unlike the current proposals system it they wouldn't require subpages as they are already on the talk page. I think this would make finding TPPs easier as the current system doesn't link directly to the proposal and this new system would.

Should this proposal pass then the Category Settled TPPs would be deleted as it would be made redundant.

Proposer: Proposed Deadline: July 6, 2013, 23:59 GMT Date Withdrawn: July 2, 2013, 20:20 GMT

Have archive system

 * 1) Per proposal.
 * 2) Per proposal.
 * 3) Per proposal.

Keep how it is

 * 1) - A TPP only really matters to a couple pages, and it's always on one of those page's talk pages, so it's not like it's hard to find old TPPs, nor is it really necessary (unlike full Proposals, which often influence overall wiki policies). And if for some reason someone does want to browse the TPP archives, the category means there is a way to get around, so they're not totally scuppered.
 * 2) Per Walkazo.
 * 3) - Per Walkazo.

Comments
I'm not sure if this is exactly necessary because finding talk page proposals isn't as much as a guessing game as finding main page proposals. The problem with main page proposals archive system is that the archives used to be listed by links to Archive 1, Archive 2, Archive 3, and so on, while talk page proposals can be found on the talk page if you want to refer to them. The changes the talk page proposal require is usually only on the main article related to the talk while main page affects a broader spectrum, which means that it's not that often you have to refer to talk page proposals compared to main page ones. It's nice to have all archives in one spot, but, again, I'm not sure if it's necessary.
 * I mentioned the subpage thing in the proposal as I thought that was unneeded, but I think it's necessary as it makes the wiki look more professional to have a proper archive system for them, like we do with proposals.

@Walkazo Just because it only affects certain pages doesn't make it any less important, I know that's not what you're saying, but still, and the way the category is set up means that a user would have to scroll through the page to find a TPP this makes it easier to find and that and the fact I feel it makes the wiki look a bit more professional is why I don't think it's unnecessary.
 * Making a category would also require scrolling through the page. Your point?
 * Category:Settled TPPs already exists, I'm not proposing a category.
 * Sure it does. Even with regular Proposals, some are way more important than others: that's just how it goes (not that it's necessarily page-number-dependent: it depends on the page(s) and the change(s) involved). Of course, importance and necessity aren't the same thing, and TPPs and minor Proposals are all as worthwhile as the occasional game-changing idea, but that doesn't change the fact that there is very little need to go scrolling through old TPPs, whereas some proposals still get referred back to even years after they ran. Plus there's the issue of how the 400+ TPPs are going to be archived anyway: the only feasible way would be to use the category (which wouldn't be redundant even with an archive system and shouldn't be deleted), but that's alphabetical order: you can't leave it like that because new ones would need to be slotted in, which is a pain and makes manual numbering like the main Proposal Archive impossible - but rearranging everything into chronological order would be a huge pain. Either way, it'd be a lot of work for something of limited usefulness. -

Guidelines for what is a reference and what is not
Lately I've been seeing a lot of pointless references, such as saying that the appearance of Shy Guys or Pokeys is a reference to Super Mario Bros. 2, even though they've become so mainstream now. I think we should set guidelines for references, i.e. if Albino Dino appeared that could be a reference because it only appeared once, but if Monty Moles appear, that's NOT a reference to Super Mario World.

Proposer: Deadline: July 8, 2013, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) My proposal.

Oppose

 * 1) I'm not going to pretend anything's perfect, but this sounds way too vague at the moment. Get a draft of the guidelines setup, then we'll see.
 * 2) - Vague calls for regulations are not helpful: better to bring it up in conversation on the forum or on talk pages.
 * 3) I don't see a big problem with references. Plus, the referred guideline doesn't sound like a clear and useful one...
 * 4) - Per all.
 * 5) Per all.
 * 6) Per all.
 * 7) Per all.
 * 8) Make it a bit clearer and i'll change my vote. Per Vommack.

Comments
Please specify your guideline?
 * I think what it would be is 'If an enemy was appeared multiple times then it's not a references i.e. a Goomba appearing in something, but if the enemy has only appeared once i.e. the Albino Dino, then it could be a reference'.
 * A Goomba appearing more than once is a reference, without a doubt —
 * No, as in a Goomba appearing in New Super Luigi U isn't a reference to Super Mario Bros. due to their appearances in all main-series Mario games bar 1.
 * Oh, okay. Currently, we don't cover references inside of the series. We gather information about Mario stuff appearing in non-Mario media. We don't gather information about Mario stuff appearing in Mario media. —
 * I think the proposer means in the References to other games sections in games articles.
 * Oh, that makes a lot more sense. Yeah, a Goomba in NSMBU is not a reference. —

Why is this under "Removals"?
 * I think it's because if it passes then things like 'Shy Guy appearing in here is a reference to this' would be removed though the title does make it sound like it should be somewhere else.

I'll make a draft soon, and then I'll start the proposal again. Sorry for the misunderstanding!

Do not allow subpages to be featured
I can't say much more than that, other than I don't believe that subpages should be featured.

Proposer: Proposed Deadline: July 18, 2013, 23:59 GMT Date Withdrawn: July 13, 2013, 02:03 GMT

Support

 * 1) Per me

Oppose

 * 1) - And exactly why do you think they shouldn't be featured? This is far too vague. Give me a better reason and perhaps I'll change my vote.
 * 2) I don't see why not, as long as they meet all the requirements to be an FA they should be an FA.
 * 3) Per all. Your reasoning is far too weak to have subpages unfeatured.
 * 4) Give me a reason as to why I should support what you're saying.
 * 5) Just saying "don't feature subpages" is not enough, people don't even know as to why this idea is being put forward.
 * 6) Why do you want this? I am confused on what the reasoning behind this is. You haven't supported this statement in any way, and you have not told us how this will improve Mario Wiki.

Comments
By subpages do you mean ones like List of Paper Mario beta elements?


 * Subpages: Any glitch page, beta page or gallery.


 * We now officially call them "ex-subpages", becuase they were once subpages of the main articles. But now that they are stand-alone articles in their own right, I don't see why they shouldn't be eligible for feature status if they were of standard... -- 08:49, 12 July 2013 (EDT)
 * Thanks, my only problem with them being featured is a short starting section, but I'm sure that can be cleared up.

Can someone archive this? I'm withdrawing it.

Create policy page for galleries

 * Draft: User:GBAToad/sandbox

In regards to consistency, there has been a lot of lenience given to galleries. It was only very recently that we addressed a significant problem with their organisation, but in my opinion, there are multiple other issues with the way galleries are structured and formatted which also need to be fixed.

To clarify, there is a clear difference between newer galleries (such as this and this) and older galleries (such as this and this). Newer galleries seem to follow a much higher standard than their older counterparts, which makes them look better in comparison. Newer galleries are also much more consistent with each other than older galleries are. I believe that this inconsistency between galleries is due to the lack of a detailed gallery policy page with a set of rules that all galleries should follow.

I'm proposing that we enforce this new policy page which will apply a comprehensive standard to all galleries to maintain their appearance and structure. There are some fantastic examples of galleries out there, and these should be used to set the standard for all galleries new and old. Thus, using galleries such as these as a guideline, I have expanded on what is present on the Help:Gallery page (namely just the bottom bit) to include other important formatting rules that (if followed) should keep all galleries looking neat and constant with the majority. Most of what I've mentioned is already standard in most galleries, but having a written outline should make maintaining all galleries much easier.

Some things I've included:
 * The current organisation standard, which includes a new section dedicated to printed media. It also makes it clear that screenshots from animation (such as The Adventures of Super Mario Bros. 3) should be included on subject galleries as per this proposal.
 * Formatting standards. There needs to be some consistency with the alignment of images and use of headers. Some galleries use and some galleries don't. It is clear that the wiki favours using and Header 2 (==) for sections.
 * Definitions for each section and what it contains. I've also included definitions for the three types of galleries and the differences between them (such as the amount of pictures they need to contain). This will help avoid any confusion when adding images to sections and when creating subsections.

(Note: This policy won't replace the Help:Gallery page, it will be created under the title Galleries.)

Proposer: (with ideas from ) Deadline: July 12, 2013, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) I'm certainly not saying that enforcing this policy will suddenly make the galleries perfectly consistent, but it should greatly improve the standards of all galleries.
 * 2) Great proposal! I think you already expected me to support it, but yes, this policy will provide a good rule for galleries. Galleries do seem wonky, with a lot of inconsistent coding and formatting. This proposal will clear things up.
 * 3) - Per GBAToad. Having a solid Writing Guideline to refer to when formatting gallery pages will be really helpful.
 * 4) - Yes please! This would make everything way more organized and make the wiki look more professional. Per all.
 * 5) - Per all.
 * 6) — Per all; also, maybe we could write one line or two about the intro? I mean, now we have a kind of standard, so we might as well mention it there.
 * 7) - Too logical to disagree with, per proposal.
 * 8) Looked at the draft and I like what I saw. A great way to organize galleries. Per all.
 * 9) Per all.
 * 10) A better question: why should we not make a gallery page? Per all.
 * 11) Great policy here. Love it.
 * 12) Yeah, I don't see any reason to oppose this, so that galleries will be all tidy and neat.
 * 13) Per all.
 * 14) Per all.
 * 15) Per all.
 * 16) Per LGM and Sinanco, the galleries (starts whispering) go a little crazy.

Comments
@Banon It's the first bullet point of the "Proper Formatting" section. 09:08, 29 June 2013 (EDT)
 * Oh, ok, I thought it didn't refer to the intros. —
 * The topic has been discussed on the forum, and we decided we will add a section for the standard to the Lists. So maybe, you could link there. —
 * Done. Thanks for the tip.

Impose a standard for dates
Recently, we have no clear standard for dates. Often, we see dates like this: Month DD, YYYY, and other times like this: DD Month YYYY. I think we should have a set standard for imposing dates. So, here are two choices.

Month DD, YYYY TT:TT (GMT) | July 13, 2013 23:59 GMT DD Month YYYY TT:TT (GMT) | 13 July 2013 23:59 GMT

Proposer: Deadline: July 13, 2013, 23:59 GMT

Month DD, YYYY

 * 1) - Starting with the word, having all the numbers together (broken up perfectly well by commas), and then closing with letters seems neater to me than mixing them all together and not using punctuation. It also mirrors how the date's spoken aloud (in my experiences), and from what I understand, MDY's the main format in the US as well; so, going by the same logic as the North American name thing, most editors and readers will have been schooled in MDY notation too - but of course, I can't assert that for sure. It's also been the proposal standard for years (starting with the List of TPP section, iirc), and changing it now seems arbitrary and will require a lot of archives to be fixed if we wanna remain consistent (most of the pre-MDY archives are already inconsistent and need fixing either way - although I've already done a few of them there and there).
 * 2) - Even though I was raised with D/M/Y and have used it all my life, for the sake of consistency the wiki should use the Month DD, YYYY format. Not only that, but, as Walkazo mentioned, it looks much better than having  , and the comma lets it flow easier.
 * 3) Per Walkazo.
 * 4) We are trying to "Americanize" this wiki, so to speak, so having the date format of the US makes sense. Per all.
 * 5) Per all.
 * 6) Per TT.
 * 7) Per all; for consistency.
 * 8) DD Month YYYY seem to be confusing to me, so I'll rather stay with Month DD YYYY instead. Per all.
 * 9) Per all.
 * 10) Per.
 * 11) The most important part goes first. And this class is neater than the others. It is used in the outer american world. Per Walkazo & Tucayo
 * 12) Per all, though the majority of users here aren't American.

DD Month YYYY

 * 1) This should be the standard date. Signature dates and Featured Article dates already use this format, so it's a wonder how proposal deadlines don't use this format. In fact, I've tried using this standard for proposal deadline dates, but it keeps getting "reformatted" into the first one. The reason this format is so attractive for formal writing is that it is quickly grasped since the figures are separated by word. So, I support using this standard.
 * 2) Per Lefty, I also find it easier to read if it goes day, month, year.
 * 3) Per Lefty and Yoshi.
 * 4) It's standard formatting. Only in the United States are we weird and use the other way.

Comments
Why does the time have to be first in the second option? I prefer DD Month YYYY to Month DD, YYYY, but I'd like the time to be after that because it's always the same and the date is the important part. Aokage (talk) 15:57, 6 July 2013 (EDT)
 * The time is first because it's the way the signature and the featured article is arranged, but the time can go after the date.

Walkazo: The numbers aren't mixed. They're ordered by the the smallest time frame to the largest one without punctuation. I think this notation is preferred in formal works, and I think this reminds me of how the U.S. uses the customary system, but most scientists (including those in the U.S.) prefer metric. According to the article you listed, more and more written works are written as this format as well. This format also eliminates ambiguity, which is the purpose of that format. I'm not calling for an immediate change in the archive system, though, but Walkazo, if you're calling for that first one, you have to change the signature formatting and the FA dates as well. Either way, something's being changed.
 * Graphically, it's mixed. There's no ambiguity as long as the month's written in letters and the year's got all four digits: the ambiguity comes when it's all numbers and 11/12/10 could mean anything (especially in Canada, since we use all three orders, which is just super). If I could change the sigs, I would, and I'd much rather change the FAs to mach the proposals, too. Aokage's point about the time being way less important than the date, and thus, should come last, is valid for FAs as well as proposals: unlike proposals, the times may change, but does it really matter what hour and minute an article becomes an FA? The month and year seems much more important, especially when you consider that histories are navigated using months and years (in case someone ever wants to go see what an article was like when it was featured, like if it since goes downhill and makes them wonder how it was FA'd in the first place, or if they want to just do it out of curiosity, or whatever). -
 * The format we use (the one for writing out the months) works better in day month year since it's cleaner and easier to read, so there wouldn't be any ambiguity in rearranging the dates that way. I'm not asking for all numbers, by the way. I do think the time should go after the dates, though. Still, I'm not sure if DMY format is used in formal spots, much as how metric is used instead of customary in scientific works, even in the U.S.
 * Which method is cleaner and easier to read is subjective: you think DMY is better, but I think MDY is better; there's nothing to debate there, because both are valid opinions and it's just a matter of which opinions is more popular. I didn't think you were arguing for numbers only, I was just using it to show what is ambiguous, because saying DMY "eliminates ambiguity" implies the alternative, MDY, has ambiguity that needs eliminating, which is doesn't - unlike the number method. From my experiences, MDY is used in formal situations all the time, including academia, but either way, I still maintain that concerns about formality should take a backseat to the more important question of which format feels more natural for the users and thus, will be easier to read and use. The subjective, popular vote. -

I'd like to go for ISO 8601: YYYY-MM-DD (hh:mm:ss). I think it's a bit more logical because year < month < day < hour < minute < second. —
 * Never mind. —

@TimeTurner: Please don't bring political agendas into this. The wiki is international, that's why we allow both American and British spelling, among other things. Going with the North American titles and the date format primarily used in the States isn't about "Americanizing" the wiki at all. The former is to make it easier for the most number of potential readers to find us with their Google searchers, and my argument (in addition to the subjective looks call) for this matter is similar: use the date format used by the most editors. Since the bulk of the wiki's userbase and reader traffic is from (North) America, that means the (North) American standards are the ones that will best serve the most people. It's demographics and the popular vote, not political at all, and dragging those sorts of issues into things is nothing but a recipe for disaster. -
 * I... what? You have me completely at a loss, Walkazo.
 * Look up the old First English Name vs. North American Name proposals, or even the comments here. The last thing any objective wiki discussion needs is to get sidetracked by any sort of political chatter, including terms like "Americanization", which can inspire rather strong feelings on either side of the argument. Besides, we're not trying to Americanize the wiki, and so, that's not why anyone should support or oppose the MDY format. -
 * I... didn't realize that "Americanize" is a political term, nor that it would actually cause political arguments. I know next to nothing about anything politics-related, and since I've apparently, I do apologize.
 * No worries: if I hadn't seen arguments flare up over that sorta thing many a time already, I probably wouldn't think it'd be something to avoid either. So no need to apologize - you just might want to rephrase your vote, is all. -

Other Appearances, Cameos and References sections
It would be useful to have subsections at the bottom of the History sections to group all the random data-deficient appearances (rather than littering the place with section-stubs), as well as things that wouldn't really fit in the History proper, like merchandise, commercials, references and cameos. Right now, they're already used on the Mario, Luigi, Princess Peach, Wario, Thwomp and Bowser articles (and maybe others too), and on a whole, seem to work well. However, the Bowser page has a rewrite template calling for the removal of the section, which is what brings me here. Currently, there's no policy about this type of section: it's just something that's been done informally, but I think that should change.

The style of these sections should follow the example on Bowser's article: nice, full paragraphs that group related bits of information (lump the games, lump the merchandise, give the "How to Draw" books a separate paragraph, etc.), as opposed to a bulleted list like Peach's page, which looks lazy and sloppy and should be avoided. Bowser's page also has a few subsections: the Wreck-It Ralph one is a good idea since the movie's pretty notable and folks are likely going to look for info about it; the others are about series in which Bowser has made multiple cameos/references, which is okay, although the Thwomp page is a better example of this practice, as it makes full use of its Zelda subsection, with multiple, information-rich paragraphs. However, even though there's a lot of into, they're still just cameos: "guest appearances" should still be incorporated into the History whenever possible, like how Wario's Densetsu no Stafy 3 appearance is nestled in his page's History, while things like the PM:TTYD badge are in the "Other Appearances" section. Similarly, while putting data-deficient Mario series games in these grab-bag sections is better than nothing, the hope is still that if enough info can be collected to make sections worth reading, it'll be done. It's also worth noting that while things like Super Mario-Kun and other obscure publications are likely to land in these sections more often than not, it's not meant to be a return to ye olden days of separating appearances by media: merchandise (including Nintendo Monopoly and Super Mario Chess) is really the only medium that should be limited to "Other Appearances" (for obvious reasons).

Finally, as seen in the examples, the name's not consistent. The goal would be to call the sections "Other appearances, cameos and references", but if (for example) there are only cameos and references (like on Thwomp's page), it'd be more accurate to call the section "Cameos and references", and if no cameos or references have been added to the section (yet), it could simply be called "Other Appearances" for the time being. If this proposal passes, the name, the structure and the content of these sections will all be outlined in a paragraph added to the History section of the Manual of Style, thereby making these handy sections official and welcome on the wiki.

Proposer: Deadline: July 16, 2013, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) - Per me. When done right, these sections are a great asset, especially for massive character pages that will simply get bogged down by attempts to incorporate one-liner appearances in the History proper.
 * 2) Although it takes a lifetime to read, per proposal.
 * 3) - Per proposal.
 * 4) We need an official writing guideline on this and this is a great start. Per proposal.
 * 5) There are no downsides to this proposal, except that it requires work to do. Accessing those giant pages is still a problem, though, but that's another issue. Per all.
 * 6) Per all
 * 7) Per proposal.
 * 8) Per LGM
 * 9) - Per Walkazo.
 * 10) — Per all. I don't know which name we will use, but we shouldn't use uppercases as in "Other Appearances".
 * 11) Per proposal.
 * 12) Per all.

Paper Mario: Sticker Star Level Pages
Since Paper Mario: Sticker Star is a level-based game, there is a page for each level. However, the format for these are inconsistent, as you can tell by comparing Warm Fuzzy Plains, Water's Edge Way, and Jungle Rapids, though there are more inconsistencies. I think that there should be one format for all of these levels, which I have included below. There is also very little information on some pages, and I feel that they should be expanded. One area that many of there articles are lacking in is the Tattles section, which Kersti gives throughout each level. I believe that all of these pages should be formatted the same and have more information in general.

Suggested Normal Level Page Format:

*Not relevant for all pages

A few sentence into =History= =Layout= ==HP-Up Heart==* (Location/How to get) ==Traveling Toad==* (Being bullied by ___, bribe, reward) ==Secret Door== ==Secret Exit==* =Sticker Shop=* (Inventory) (On levels like Rumble Volcano) =Area Tattles= ==Advice== =Enemies= ==Bosses==* =Things= =Trivia=* =Names in other Languages=

NOTE: Some special levels like Bowser's Sky Castle will take away many sections or add in specialized sections for that particular level

Suggested Shop Level Page Format:

*Not relevant for all pages =History= =Layout= ==Secret Door==* =Sticker Shop= (Inventory) =Area Tattles= =Things=* =Trivia=* =Names in other Languages=

Proposer: Deadline: July 16, 2013, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) I think that we should keep all of the pages on this wiki organized to the best of our ability, and this will organize and expand all of the level pages for Paper Mario: Sticker Star.
 * 2) Per Mario7.

Oppose

 * 1) - One "Overview" section like in some other leveled games' articles seems more efficient than splitting the plot and layout; then just put the subsections in there (although I'm a bit unsure if one-liners would need full sections anyway). Subsections for Bosses also seems unnecessary: just bold them in the regular enemy lists or something to cut down on header clutter. Also, Trivia sections go at the bottoms of pages (and are actually discouraged).
 * 2) Per Walkazo.
 * 3) Per Walkazo.
 * 4) Per Walkazo.

Comments
"Shop Levels" are things like Shaved-Ice Cave, right? Seems like they wouldn't even need History/Layout sections at all, or is that article actually lacking in a lot of info? I haven't played the game yet, so I wouldn't know... -
 * It's not lacking info. It's just a shop that, because of how accessing the game's locations is done, is given its own space in its "world."
 * Maybe the page layout for shops does not need to change, but the other pages are not in a set format (e.g. =Layout= =Secret Door=  =Secret Exit= for one page, but =Layout=  ==Secret Exit==  ==Secret Door== for another ) and I want to change that.

Do Something with the Mario Party One-liner sections
Recently I've found way too many one line sections in minigame articles. I just say we do something with them.

Proposer: (third option suggested by ) Deadline: July 17, 2013, 23:59 GMT

Incorporate them into the Main Sections

 * 1) Per myself.

Comments
Why are we having this proposal again? Just merge them: 9/10 of the opposers of the last proposal essentially voted for that option already when they per'd me (including "per all" votes, since "all" were pering me - until the last vote, at any rate, and not including RAP's comment). That should be enough of a show of support to go through with the change. -


 * I want to make sure I don't do something that the other users don't like.
 * Fair enough, but I still think the last proposal made it clear what users would like. At least, the users who voted. -
 * Huh?

Featured Image
On the Main Page, I would like to see a Featured Image section added in. It would change every week, much like the already existing Featured Article section. It would be any picture or artwork that is related to the Mario series that had some sort of significance (not some random screenshot or logo) to something in the Mario universe. The image could be a multitude of things, as long as it is visually impressive (high-quality). There would only be one per week, so there will always be plenty to choose from. This is on many of the other websites in the NIWA, and Super Mario Wiki should have it as well. It would add content and variety to the Main Page and would attract first-time visitors to this site. Unlike a few years ago when no one updated the section, I will update it every week and would welcome anyone who wants to help. Voting will not be an issue because there will be a committee of five users, selected by administrators, (though that number can be changed it this proposal gets passed) that will decide the image of the week. An administrator, with the consent of 4 other administrators, can remove a user from the committee if they become inactive or are not carrying out their duties. This will get rid of the system that Mario Wiki had before and will fix any controversies that happened in the past. It would not replace any other sections, so it would be beneficial in many ways.

Proposer: Deadline: July 17, 2013, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) It would expand the Main Page and be another interesting on this wiki that will help to improve it and make it grow

Oppose

 * 1) – Per the vote made by Super Mario Bros. in a previous proposal here.
 * 2) Per the vote YoshiKong showed us.
 * 3) &mdash; In addition to my reasons in the older proposal, the proposed committee system is relatively infeasible. It is not correct to task the administration with micromanaging a Featured Images Committee, and it does not take into account any sort of quorum system the administration already has for its internal proceedings. Rather than improving any sort of problem, this new idea simply introduces its own problems.
 * 4) Per YoshiKong.
 * 5) Per Super Mario Bros.
 * 6) Per Super Mario Bros.
 * 7) - Per SMB.
 * 8) - Per SMB, and per the same reasons I always voted for the removal of FIs whenever it came up in years past. FAs are a testament to the quality put forth by the wiki - they are a direct result of our hard work and are something to strive for and take pride in. On the other hand, FIs simply showcase Nintendo's handiwork, which would do nothing but add extra clutter to the main page, thereby detracting from the sections that actually matter.
 * 9) Per all.

Comments
Due to my going to sleep after posting this, you are aware that we voted to delete this ages ago for some odd reason. It kight be wise to see why, so you can try and convince those who voted to remove it why it should be back.
 * Thanks

YoshiKong: I read the archived proposal and I have a plan to fix it.
 * And what is that plan? —

Remove indirect appearances and name-only references from the "Appearances" sections on character pages
So, I was looking at the appearances section on the Wart page and noticed that for some reason he's listed as having appeared in games that only referenced his name. We include Stickers and Trophies on these sections, but I don't think a character should be listed as having appeared in a game just because his/her name is mentioned/referenced. Then there's his so-called "indirect appearances" in the Animal Crossing games, just because there's a character called Wart Jr. I don't believe these type of references should be included on the Appearances sections on any character pages, so I'm proposing that we remove them.

Proposer: Deadline: July 19, 2013, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) Per my proposal.
 * 2) Per proposal.

Comments
The "Wart Jr." thing is even debatable if it really references Wart or not. I mean, I'm pretty sure "Wart" would be a pretty common name to name a toad.
 * Yeah, which is why it's only mentioned in the Trivia. I have no idea why all the games Wart Jr. appears in are included as "indrect appearances".

The Animal Crossing ones should definitely be removed, but I think it's plausible for the "Cyber Wart" comic in Super Paper Mario to be a reference to Wart himself. The Brawl one could also be an actual reference. --
 * It's very likely that they are references, but I don't think name-only references should be included in the "Appearances" section. If a picture of the character appears, then sure, it's a cameo. But a simple mention shouldn't really count as an appearance in my opinion. Of course the reference should be mentioned in the article itself, in the "Other Appearances, Cameos and References" section (since that proposal will pass).
 * I support not counting mentions as appearances and instead listing them under the "Other Appearances, Cameos and References" section, but you'd need to specify that in the proposal. --
 * Well, I can't apparently add anything anymore. But it should be clear that this proposal was never about removing them entirely, only from the "Appearances" section. They are already in the History section and should go under the "Other Appearances, Cameos and References" sub-section now that the proposal about that passed. Aokage (talk) 13:27, 17 July 2013 (EDT)

Yeah, sorry about that. For the record / just so others can see, this is what you tried to add (including your initial comment down here, which shouldn't have been removed on you): Addendum: Of course, this doesn't mean that they should be removed from the articles entirely, per this proposal they should be listed under the "Other Appearances, Cameos and References" section.
 * Okay, I'll add that in. This proposal was never about removing them from articles entirely. Aokage (talk) 13:00, 17 July 2013 (EDT)

-

Inconsistencies with Template Names
The vast majority of our navigational templates (templates that serve as an index of sorts for a certain subject) for games follow a specific format for its title: the beginning is always "Template:", and what subsequently follows is an abbreviation of the game's title. This is what's used for almost all of our game's templates (Template:MK7, Template:YI, Template:SMG, and others). However, this is only used for almost all of our game's templates. There are several titles out there that use the full version of their game's title for their template's title (Template:WarioWare, Inc.: Mega Microgame$!, Template:Super Mario Bros. 3, Template:Mario Superstar Baseball, and others), which, from my point of view, is a fair bit inconsistent. This is something that I would like to change.

Another point I'd like to bring up is subcategories of nav. templates: when a certain aspect of a game becomes too large to fit into a standard template (such as levels or minigames), it often gets put into its own template. The names of these often follow the same rules with "Template:(game name) [aspect]", such as Template:NSLU Levels and Template:WarioWare: D.I.Y. Microgames, but there are some that are non-indicative of what game it covers, such as Template:Baseballpowerups and Template:MK Battle Courses, and others that don't even mention what aspect it covers, such as Template:Doubledash, Template:Galaxy, and Template:Gadd, which I find both inconsistent and just odd. This is something else that I would like to change.

So, I want to propose a simple standard for the names of these templates. For starters, all game-centric navigation templates would have use an abbreviation of the game's name, so Template:Mario Pinball Land would become Template:MPL, Template:Mario Super Sluggers would become Template:MSS, and so on. For templates that cover larger aspects of a game, they would use both the abbrevation and the aspect that they're covering, so Template:WarioWare: Smooth Moves Microgames would become Template:WWSM Microgames, Template:Galaxy2 would become Template:SMG2 Levels, Template:Mario Party 1 would become Template:MP Minigames, and so on. For games that share an abbreviation, such as Yoshi's Story and Yoshi's Safari, they can't both have Template:YS, so as an alternative, the first few words of the title would be abbreviated, while the final word would remain in its full form. Thus, we would have Template:YStory, Template:YSafari, and so on. Just about every template can conform to these rules, and the biggest problem here would probably be changing all the links, but in the grand scheme of things, that's really not that big of a deal.

I understand that this may not be the biggest issue on the wiki, but nevertheless, this is still an issue, and it's something that I think should be dealt with, for the sake of consistency.

Proposer: Deadline: July 22, 2013, 23:59 GMT

Make the changes

 * 1) I support my proposal.
 * 2) I support Time Turner's proposal too.
 * 3) It might take a lot of time, but eventually it should be done.
 * 4) Per all. Having a standard to distinguish templates such as Template:MP9 and Template:Mario Party 9 is a great idea, though I also agree with Walkazo. Ambiguity should be the reason these templates are being adjusted, not for the sake of consistency.
 * 5) I was actually planning to put forward something like this a while back, but apparently I've been ninja'd. Per all.
 * 6) – Per Time Turner.

Comments
Rather than random truncation, names that share the same abbreviation should just be written out in full. Similarly, any other cases where abbreviations or shorthand would create ambiguity should be avoided (i.e. "tem:MP1 Minigames" is better than "tem:MP Minigames", since the latter could refer to the series), and while the emphasis is on making template names short, making them clear is still number one priority. There should also be explicit allowances for "species"-type templates getting whatever names work (speaking of which, the two galaxy templates have always struck me more as species templates than level templates to account of how specialized their designs are - just a thought). I also think you're underselling the amount of work updating all the links is gonna be, and while having a guide definitely names sense, it shouldn't be something that should be enforced to the letter especially not retroactively and when dealing with tricky cases like shared abbreviations or cases where more than one abbreviation is understandable. Heck, part of me even wants to argue that the current mix isn't dysfunctional and readers won't see any difference anyway, and so our efforts might be better spent elsewhere, while old titles simply get grandfathered through... -
 * I've spent most of my time here systematically going through links and changing them. Doing stuff like that doesn't even faze me. In any case, you do raise a fair point (though I'm not sure I'd classify Galaxy as a species template), but... I want something to be done. Even if we don't have a rigid format for all the template names, I still want something to be done about all those ones with awkward names (MFb, Gadd, and the like). Maybe I'm just being overly OCD...
 * I enjoy that sorta maintenance work too, actually (just cruising along, not having to think - nice and peaceful), it's just that replacing templates en masse will take a lot of time that could potentially be used for other maintenance work, like updating categories or fixing headers. And I also agree that something should be done, with a nice section on naming rules/recommendations getting added to Navigation templates as a reference for making new templates or fixing the oddball ones that should be replaced. (As for the Galaxy templates, if they were regular game templates, they'd technically have to be red, but I like their current design and colours (and I'm sure others do too), and calling them a species template lets them stay that way without technically breaking from policy.) -
 * We could see if Porple could make a bot to do it, because if you go by the comments in this TPP Porple can make a bot to delete all those links, it might be possible for him to make a bot to change the template names.
 * Operating under the assumption that it's even possible for a bot to rename templates according to the standards outlined in this proposal should it pass, I think that creating a bot that does that would take more time than just changing the template names ourselves.

Remove references from "Appearances" sections on character pages
(Re-listing this, since it was "no quorum". See here for the archived proposal)

So, I was looking at the appearances section on the Wart page and noticed that for some reason he's listed as having appeared in games that only referenced his name. We include Stickers and Trophies on these sections, but I don't think a character should be listed as having appeared in a game just because his/her name is mentioned/referenced. Then there's his so-called "indirect appearances" in the Animal Crossing games, just because there's a character called Wart Jr. I don't believe these type of references should be included on the Appearances sections on any character pages, so I'm proposing that we remove them.

Of course, this doesn't mean that they should be removed from the articles entirely, per this proposal they should be listed under the "Other Appearances, Cameos and References" section.

Proposer: Deadline: July 28, 2013, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) Per my proposal.
 * 2) - Per Aokage. Makes sense.
 * 3) Per proposal.
 * 4) I supported this the last time, it's a good proposal.
 * 5) Per proposal.
 * 6) Per proposal
 * 7) Makes sense.

Document "Regional Differences" in game pages, and create a policy page for them

 * Draft: User:Walkazo/Essays

This project is pretty self-explanatory. Basically, the idea of this project is to document changes made to a game during localization, re-releases, ports, etc. These changes can include anything from different placement of coins or items to drastic gameplay changes or even characters being added in later versions of a game, such as Metal Mario being added for the North American version of the game Mario Golf, for example. As explained on the draft for the policy page and the example following it, we would create sections for "Regional differences" in the pages of games that have them, and further organize them into subcategories that include "Gameplay changes", "Level design changes", "Graphical changes", and "Textual changes". Of course, if there are changes made to other aspects of the game in question, such as changes in the soundtrack of the game, additional sections can be created to properly document them.

Proposer: and Deadline: July 29, 2013, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) &mdash; Per proposal, natch.
 * 2) Sounds good, per proposal.
 * 3) - I really like this idea. Per proposal.
 * 4) Nice one. Per all
 * 5) - Per our proposal.
 * 6) Per all.
 * 7) per all, hurp. You don't know how long I've been waiting for this.
 * 8) Per all
 * 9) Per proposal.
 * 10) Per all.
 * 11) -- Per all.
 * 12) Per all.
 * 13) Great idea, per all.
 * 14) Per proposal
 * 15) Per all.
 * 16) • heck yes, per all.
 * 17) I like it, per all.
 * 18) Per all.

Comments
Without going full plagiarism, maybe we could use this -
 * I agree, that site (which is a great resource) was where I used to read up on Mario before I found the wiki.

Should unused game files existing in some versions be included as regional differences? The Japanese version of Super Mario Sunshine contains message.szs, which is an unused file not present in other versions.--Holyromanemperortatan (talk) 18:53, 28 July 2013 (EDT)
 * I think that kind of information would fit better in the game's beta elements page. --

Separate Broken File Links
When browsing the Category:Pages with broken file links page, I noticed that most of the pages in this category were userspaces. My proposal is simple: either have a subcategory for all userspace pages (User:___, User talk:___, etc.) with broken file links, or have only "real" articles link to this category. This would make it easier for users to fix broken links without having to browse through so many userspace pages. Thank you for reading, and I am open to any suggestions in the comments below.

Proposer: Deadline: August 4, 2013, 23:59 GMT

Create Sub-Category for Userspace Pages

 * 1) I don't think we should keep userspace out of the picture altogether.
 * 2) Per SYB

Prevent userspace pages from being included in category

 * 1) Per proposal
 * 2) I decided a while back to make this proposal, however I didn't think it is possible. I agree with making Category:Pages with broken file links specific for real articles only. However, I don't think a sub-page for userspace pages is necessary, nor I think it is possible.
 * 3) - It seems difficult but it should be possible to accomplish.

Comments
You will need to bring this to Porplemontage. 11:20, 28 July 2013 (EDT)

Please use the Month DD YYYY format for deadline dates per this proposal. Thanks.

Remove Select Level Image Maps
See walkazo's comment: "I also question the need for platformer image maps at all. They've always struck me as a bit superfluous, especially for linear games - like Template:YISMA3_Map - what's the point? The level numbers are right there already, so it's not like an amorphous RPG map or whatever..." I read her comment and I totally agree with her, And yeah, Navigation Templates will do the trick for them, and If we must keep something, I'd like to keep the Icons, But remove the templates. By removing I mean the following templates:, , , and.

Proposer: (Walkazo's Idea) Deadline: August 14, 2013, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) Per above.
 * 2) I got an idea to make them images. Per proposal.
 * 3) In my opinion, it's pointless. Per all.
 * 4) - Per me. Straightforward and simple set-ups are better than needless flash.
 * 5) I don't really support any image maps in general. They always strike me of more of what the capability of the wiki can boast. However, this is just plain redundant. Images mean a thousand words and all, but if this image level maps' purpose are as the same as a simple nav template, then the point of an image becomes pointless and taking up space.
 * 6) Per all.
 * 7) Per Walkazo.
 * 8) Per all
 * 9) Per all.

Oppose

 * 1) I don't see anything wrong with them. They seem helpful to me.
 * 2) Per Tails777.
 * 3) - These templates don't clutter the pages they are in, they help with navigation, and they embellish the articles they are in. All the CSS the wiki has is by no means necessary, but it makes it look attractive, and attractive is good.
 * 4) Per all.
 * 5) Per all, they are easier to navigate with.
 * 6) Per all.
 * 7) They can help see the layout of the map (e.g. location of Toad houses, the castle, any ghost houses, etc.). Per all.
 * 8) Per all.
 * 9) – Strongly disagree, per all.
 * 10) Per all.
 * 11) Per Tucayo
 * 12) Per All.

Comments
Is it really necessary to get rid of them? They look really nice and don't make too much of a clutter. -- 15:03, 6 August 2013 (EDT)

What's the point of keeping the icons?
 * The icons being the images themselves? It'd make sense to have them on the world pages, but not the level pages. Also, thanks for crediting me with the idea, but for the record, I'm a girl, so if the pronouns could be fixed, that'd be great... -
 * I dunno what your problem is but that sounds a bit rude... PPLToast (talk) 15:47, 6 August 2013 (EDT)
 * I already know, just a typo. @Tucayo, If a thing is unneeded, then we don't need it. they may be nice, but not fantastic, I'd prefer them, if they are em, locations. not just 'worlds'

Stuff like, , , and , also feel a bit pointless for me other than showing off. In the sections of the articles they appear in, it feels redundant, but preferably, I'd like the links of the locations in the article get removed, not the picture.
 * Lists are good if you don't want to have to waver your mouse all over an image, or if you're just looking for a list of names at a glance, and whatnot. Things like are handy when you don't know the name, or when you'd simply like an annotated map to help match names with locations. They're good for game articles and pages like Bowser's body or Mushroom Kingdom, although I'm honestly not too crazy about them also being used as navigation templates on the individual location pages; it's not as bad as linear games getting the image map treatment, but it still seems a bit unnecessary. -
 * First, keeping the picture without the links is bit confusing. Especially for games like PiT. How can i know where this location is on the map? The propose of any Image Map, is to make navigation easier. Plus knowing what is the name of every part of the map. Keeping templates like does not add any help in navigation stuff. However, Templates like  is good, because people may know the location but not the name. And searching wouldn't help at all. Visual maps are the really type of Image Maps that should be kept.
 * If I use the Yoshi's Island here as an example, some people may remember the icon of the level, but not the level name, so keeping that template and others like it are necessary for easy navigation.
 * If we have to, we could add those to the navigation template.

@ParaLemmy1234: What you mean with that? I'm talking about linear games maps (just icons) not other maps (real location).

Moving pages like "Cat Mario" to "Cat Form" and so
Well this is my first proposal so I am going to attempt. I was linked here. I think that pages for Mario's forms (Raccoon, Cat etc.) should be renamed to like "Raccoon Form", putting the word "Form" at the end of Mario's form articles. Because some characters (like in SMB2 or NSMW) can also achieve the form, not just Mario. It would make more sense to just put for example "Cat Form" instead of "Cat Mario", since all the chars in NSMW can go Cat form. (that is an example, I mean for all of Mario's forms, even if it is only Mario that ever achieves them).

Proposer: Deadline: August 16, 2013 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) Per proposal.
 * 2) I was actually thinking about this recently. Per all.
 * 3) I agree, Mario isn't the only one who can obtain the powers of the fire flower. Plus that template at the top of those articles that say that it may also apply to a Luigi form is really ugly-looking, and, to me, unprofessional.

Oppose

 * 1) Since nobody has answered my question about this making more conjectural names, I've decided to oppose any changes until Megadardery's and my question is cleared. Is Fire Form ever used?
 * 2) - Per LGM: the forms always defaulting to "X Mario" has always bugged me a little, but conjecture is best avoided. Besides, afaik, the manuals all use "X Mario" as the term for the forms with the understanding that players know it applies to any other playable characters too - just as we know that these pages apply to all the characters. There's also the matter of Google traffic: folks are more likely to search "Fire Mario" than generic "Fire from", and searching for things like "Invincible Wario" or "Penguin Luigi" still bring our "X Mario" pages up as the top hits (with those non-Mario names in the  template getting the boldface); maybe it'd still work with "X form", but maybe not.
 * 3) Per all.  I'd like to have them like that, but they are conjecture.
 * 4) Per Walkazo.
 * 5) Per all.
 * 6) Per Dardery.
 * 7) Per all.
 * 8) – Per all.
 * 9) – although I agree that the template used to say that it applies to whoever concerned in the game is very messy.
 * 10) Per all. Besides, even though the template does look unprofessional, wouldn't we still have to put a conjecture template anyways?

Comments
If this passes, will have to be deleted?
 * It'd be unneeded, so I'd say yes.
 * No, it is necessary for other uses. like this -

Stupid question, but is the name "Tanooki form" and "Fire form" ever used?

I won't vote now, but isn't "Fire form" a conjecture name? -
 * I was asking that...
 * Sorry, I didn't understand you. better contact an admin before this proposal pass -

Little note: I had to edit the way the proposer put his username so there was a link to his user talk page. If you must, change it back, but I'm pretty sure that's the rules.