Talk:Fake Bowser

Clone
Is the Bowser Clone really related? These are magick'd enemies, whereas the other was a creation of Belome after eating Bowser. Binks 00:07, 20 July 2008 (EDT)

Fake
Can we move this to Fake Bowser because it sounds better?--Yoshidude99 11:48, 13 February 2011 (EST)

False or fake Bowser
This shold be called false Bowser or fake Bowser instead of Bowser impostor. MarioKart7player (talk) 08:26, 9 February 2015 (EST)
 * Why? LinkTheLefty (talk) 11:49, 9 February 2015 (EST)

Because it sounds better. MarioKart7player (talk) 11:56, 9 February 2015 (EST)
 * Conjecture is only a placeholder until an official name is found, so that's not a valid reason... LinkTheLefty (talk) 12:09, 9 February 2015 (EST)

Well it use to be false Bowser. MarioKart7player (talk) 12:12, 9 February 2015 (EST)
 * There wasn't a proper citation, so it was tagged as conjecture (from what it seems, since 2007). Looking at the older manuals shows that they don't really refer to the fake Bowsers by name, and at least one of the original guides (How to Win at Super Mario Bros.) only calls the castle bosses "KOOPA" and "BOWSER" interchangeably. The current name was used recently in a Nintendo product to refer to these guys, so I think that gives it an official source at last. LinkTheLefty (talk) 12:21, 9 February 2015 (EST)

Well I think I know what you are talking about. MarioKart7player (talk) 12:25, 9 February 2015 (EST)

To be honest, Bowser Imposter was the title of the fact file, in a Smash Bros. Game, probably meaning A: the name wasn't taken from Mario canon and B: it wasn't referring to the actual name. I'd say False Bowser is more fitting as it is closer to the name of what it is commonly referred to. Both a unofficial names, so using a more common name just seems more fitting. 86.166.167.225 08:09, 10 July 2015 (EDT)
 * Canon or not, conjectural names are a last resort; since we accept Smash Bros. series info, the name "Bowser Impostor" applies to this article. There's the Bowser Clone from Super Mario RPG (also known as 「にせクッパ」 Fake Koopa in Japan), but that's another article. LinkTheLefty (talk) 11:10, 21 July 2015 (EDT)
 * The actual Smash Bros. text refers to him as "fake Bowser" though, twice, with "A Bowser Imposter?" simply being the title of the fact rather than a specific name (the capitalization in this instance is for all titles, so it means nothing). It's also only referring to the blue fake at the end of The Lost Levels, NOT the other fakes, therefore the name given for the title of the page doesn't actually apply to the majority of the entries. "Fake Koopa" also seems to be the Japanese name used for both the SMRPG enemy and the blue fake Bowser. I think it might be worth looking into any possible Japanese sources for the name given in various games, particularly The Lost Levels's blue fake Bowser.
 * As for the other fakes, I'm not sure any official sources ever distinguish between them and the real Bowser, they're always just called Bowser. I've certainly never seen them referred to as a separate entity, despite the fact that they are not the real deal. Fizzle (talk) 11:36, 26 September 2015 (EDT)
 * I'd like to echo Fizzle's point about the title of this page. The Tip is SSB4 clearly calls this enemy "fake Bowser" and does not call it a "Bowser Imposter". "A Bowser Imposter?" is the title of the tip, and is purely descriptive rather than being a name. The current page title is incorrect. -- Snorlax Monster  20:18, 11 February 2016 (EST)
 * The current title of this article is based on the Super Smash Bros. for Wii U tip, but we can take a closer look at the English and Japanese versions.

English:

"A Bowser Impostor?!　In Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels, Mario fights a blue fake Bowser before the real thing. That blue fake is his eighth color in this game!"

Japanese:

「にせクッパ!? 『スーパーマリオブラザーズ2』には、青いクッパが登場する. 倒すとその先にいつもの緑のクッパがいる. 『スマブラ』では8Pカラーで青いクッパになる. 」 (Fake Bowser!?　In Super Mario Bros. 2, a blue Bowser appears. Defeat him and beyond is the usual green Bowser. In Smash Bros., the 8P color is the blue-colored Bowser.)


 * A couple of points:
 * The word "fake" does not show up more than once in the Japanese text.
 * 「にせクッパ!?」 is a reference to the blue Bowser's confusing history, where he is sometimes called the same thing as a fake Bowser.
 * While 「にせクッパ」 would literally mean Fake Bowser, the corresponding phrase in the official English localization is "Bowser Impostor".
 * Since "Bowser Impostor" looks more like a proper name than "fake Bowser" (or "Bowser's decoy" for that matter), and we don't have any other sources besides Super Smash Bros. for Wii U or NES Remix to go off of, I motion moving the title back. LinkTheLefty (talk) 16:07, 27 November 2018 (EST)

Fireball death

 * "Hitting a Fake Bowser with fireballs reveals that they are really just common enemies disguised as their king with a spell"

Shouldn't we actually say "killing a Fake Bowser with fireballs"?

From what I recall from playing, hitting with a single fireball doesn't reveal anything, it's only when he dies (or at least, is knocked off the level, whatever you want to call it) via the fireballs that the true form is revealed.

Also shouldn't we mention how many fireballs it takes to do this? Is it always the same amount? Or does it take more balls the higher in level you go? This isn't specified or if it is I don't know where. ty (talk) 00:49, 24 May 2016 (EDT)

Blue Bowser might not be a Fake Bowser
In the Encyclopedia Super Mario Bros. Blue Bowser is mentioned, both in the enemies section and in the "AND MORE" section of Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels:

ENEMIES' SECTION

「クッパ(青)

青い体のクッパ. 3か所に出現し、炎やハンマーで攻撃してくる. 」

Blue Bowser

''Bowser with a blue body. He appears in three places and attacks with fire or hammers.''

AND MORE SECTION

「謎の青いクッパ!

W8-4でクツパと対決する直前、体の青いクッパと戦うことになる. クッパと同等の能力を持つが、その正体は不明. W9-3とWD-4にも登場する. 」

The mystery of the blue Bowser!

''Just before the confrontation with Bowser in World 8-4, a Bowser with blue body is fought. He has abilities similar to those of Bowser, but his identity is unknown. He also appears in Worlds 9-3 and D-4.''

At this point should we consider him a separate character from the Fake Bowsers?--Mister Wu (talk) 20:39, 12 July 2016 (EDT)


 * Interesting. It doesn't even refer to him as "it," as if he was a species. It calls it "him," indicating he is his own character. It gives him an official name, Blue Bowser. I'm not completely sure he deserves his own article. I kind of think he does, but as always, I would like to wait for other users' input. Also, we may want to keep an eye this new article if it is made. I have a feeling it could be the target for lots of speculation.
 * 16:23, 16 December 2016 (EST)
 * It turns out that this is more interesting than it seems! On the Blue Bowser is actually stated to be Bowser's younger brother and a member of the Royal Family! This is also reconfirmed on, while page  at first glance seems less clear on the matter. It must be said that  clearly states that Nintendo collaborated in realizing the book, so the hypothesis of the unofficial bio should be ruled out. What is intriguing, however, is that since in Super Mario All-Stars Blue Bowser was missing, the substitute is refferred in the official guide as either a fake Bowser (on World 8-4) or as Bowser. This is further elaborated on , where the Blue Bowser is referred to as being replaced by a fake Bowser that looks more like Bowser, although the guide now suggests that the Blue Bowser looks like a fake Bowser. Since even the Encyclopedia Super Mario Bros. states that his identity is unknown now, it seems that this character was treated like the Koopalings were in Super Smash Bros. for Wii U, where their relationship with Bowser is stated to be a mystery. I will try to see if I can get more material on the matter, although many Japanese characters picture books were released after Super Mario All-Stars.--Mister Wu (talk) 07:20, 4 February 2017 (EST)
 * Have you checked the Japanese Wiki page for Koopa Family? Blue Bowser is also listed there, but there's this really interesting line that says that in one game book, he is Bowser's big brother named "Bibinba". Granted, it could be the same as this translated guide, with stuff like the Mushroom King added in. No links or references to that sadly, and I found nothing about it with Google.
 * @Ultimate Mr. L: I think it's better keep this at the appropiate pages due to how ambiguous it is. As the Complete Encyclopedia states, Blue Bowser appears in W8-4 and WD-4 while the one in W9-3 is Bowser. Compare to Encyclopedia of 2015, where all three are Blue Bowser. Also, it isn't called "him" in the Japanese texts, that was added to make the translation look coherent. SmokedChili (talk) 08:43, 4 February 2017 (EST)
 * Looks like "Bibinba" is just another Korean dish, Bibimbap; of course for the identity of Blue Bowser before Super Mario All-Stars to be confirmed, other official sources would be useful. Unfortunately, the Japanese manual is nowhere to be found, so we'll probably need the game to obtain its scans. Beside that, I found the 「全スーパーマリオ大百科」, a book published in 1992 by 「勁文社」 that unfortunately I cannot know whether it is official or not, and the 「スーパーマリオ大図鑑」 that has the copyright of Nintendo on its cover, but has been published in 1994 and, as a consequence, only seems to show the Koopalings and Bowser as part of the Royal Family. Is there a way to clarify whether that 「全スーパーマリオ大百科」 might be a good source of information or not?--Mister Wu (talk) 10:32, 4 February 2017 (EST)
 * I've actually seen scans of The Lost Levels manual. They're the same as the SMB manual but with updated artwork. SmokedChili (talk) 11:21, 4 February 2017 (EST)
 * At this point I wonder how much we can rely on that Wikipedia page. As far as I know, the official Japanese guides from Nintendo started with Super Mario World, so the game book cannot be neither the official guide nor the manual. Is there another official source beside the Super Mario Complete Encyclopedia?--Mister Wu (talk) 17:35, 4 February 2017 (EST)
 * It ends up that on, a book by Keibunsha, Nintendo copyright is effectively there, although the involvement of the company is unknown at the moment. Anyway, still refers to the two Bowsers as brothers. At this point I think we can sum up what e know about Blue Bowser:


 * He isn't strictly a fake Bowser as he doesn't become something else when defeated with fireballs
 * Two guides of different editors published before Super Mario All-Stars, one of which was made by Shogakukan in collaboration with Nintendo, state that he was Bowser's brother
 * Since Super Mario All-Stars and his replacement with a fake Bowser, he was considered akin to a fake Bowser, at least until Super Smash Bros. for Wii U
 * However, the Encycloepdia Super Mario Bros. apparently redacted this, rather saying that his identity is unknown
 * At this point, I'm seriously considering a page dedicated to him. I would like to know your opinions on the matter.--Mister Wu (talk) 14:55, 21 March 2017 (EDT)
 * DO IT. --Glowsquid (talk) 15:26, 21 March 2017 (EDT)
 * That's odd. Mister Wu added Blue Bowser to the template, but it's not showing up. Is there a maximum amount of pages that can be on the template?
 * 16:49, 24 March 2017 (EDT)
 * According to the source code, yes. It can only contain up to seven variables. 17:07, 24 March 2017 (EDT)
 * So should we replace one of the links already there? Because I think it's more important to have Blue Bowser up there than King Boo.
 * 21:11, 24 March 2017 (EDT)
 * I think that the King Boo link should be replaced by Blue Bowser, as it is the only link to a page that is not completely about a fake version of Bowser. -- 21:22, 24 March 2017 (EDT)
 * I'm an idiot. When an about gets too full, we make a disambiguation page, right? I'd be happy to do it.
 * 21:24, 24 March 2017 (EDT)
 * I'm an idiot. When an about gets too full, we make a disambiguation page, right? I'd be happy to do it.
 * 21:24, 24 March 2017 (EDT)

Fake Fake Bowsers
There are at least two subjects that don't really belong in this article: the Tail Bowsers that first appear in Super Mario 3D Land and the "Bowser" from Yoshi Topsy-Turvy. While Tail Bowsers seem to be inspired from the original fakes since they are also transformed enemies, the addition of the Super Leaf makes them fairly different. The other subject, the one from The Tale of Bowser's Fields, turned out to be a cardboard cutout held up by the Spirit Who Loves Surprises. The inclusion of these two gives the impression that the article can be about any fake Bowser in general rather than the specific concept of the seven decoys from Super Mario Bros. LinkTheLefty (talk) 17:54, 28 November 2018 (EST)
 * What about the equally-flat inanimate one from Superstar Saga? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 17:56, 28 November 2018 (EST)
 * I wasn't too sure about that one. Maybe it can be moved to trivia since it could refer to either the real or fake? LinkTheLefty (talk) 18:14, 28 November 2018 (EST)
 * I'll point out that the same area has rotodiscs, which weren't in any game featuring Fake Bowser, discounting the tenuity of World-e (which came later) and SMAS. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:21, 28 November 2018 (EST)
 * Neither were they in a game with the bridge/axe setup, and the thing is goofy-looking enough that it could conceivably be a cheeky charicature making the fake more obvious. Though for what it's worth, the Prima Games guide does refer to it as a "cardboard Bowser" (and the Nintendo Power version doesn't mention it despite being pictured). LinkTheLefty (talk) 18:35, 28 November 2018 (EST)
 * Neither the Nintendo Official Guidebook of Mario & Luigi RPG says anything on the matter. Anyway, its presence in this page is odd, as it's not clear if the cardboard wants to actually reference a fake Bowser (being an exaggerated caricature of it) or the actual Bowser. It's also odd that two cardboard Bowsers from Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga and Yoshi Topsy-Turvy are mentioned, while the one from Super Mario 3D World isn't. In any case, now that Super Mario Run took back the original fake Bowsers, a split of the Tail Bowsers and cardboard Bowsers from the original fake Bowsers can make sense. If nobody is against the split, you can go on.--Mister Wu (talk) 21:55, 28 November 2018 (EST)
 * One thing came up: I checked the internal files of Super Mario 3D Land, and I found that the model for Tail Bowser is named "KoopaFake". What do we make of this? LinkTheLefty (talk) 06:22, 16 December 2018 (EST)
 * At this point we need to see the internal filenames of Super Mario Run, in theory Mario & Sonic and Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam might help as well, but it's unlikely that someone has access to the filesystem of the former, while the latter might not have labeled the Battle Card with the proper name. Furthermore, we'll need to have a look at the guides to see if they were pulling another case like the one of Batton - in Super Mario Run we definitely have the original Fake Bowsers.--Mister Wu (talk) 05:42, 17 December 2018 (EST)
 * Shall i make a proposal to split Fake Bowser and Tail Bowser? -- 05:46, 17 December 2018 (EST)
 * I was thinking it can still be split, but as a derived species (as it's pretty clearly the same idea except in "Raccoon" form due to the addition of Super Leaf). LinkTheLefty (talk) 06:00, 17 December 2018 (EST)
 * You can also use the Parent species part of the infobox, anyway considering how both the Nintendo Official Guidebook of Super Mario 3D Land and the Encyclopedia Super Mario Bros. confirm how Tail Bowsers have a different Japanese name (「しっぽクッパ」) I still agree with the splitting.--Mister Wu (talk) 16:46, 17 December 2018 (EST)
 * All right. If I don't see any objections, I'll go ahead and do that. LinkTheLefty (talk) 17:02, 17 December 2018 (EST)
 * On the proposal there should also be an option to also split the cardboard bowsers into well, Cardboard Bowser. 17:16, 17 December 2018 (EST)
 * I already removed the Topsy-Turvy info since it seemed we were all in agreement on that earlier, but if it and Superstar Saga's "cardboard Bowser" were to share the same article then it would be considered part conjecture. LinkTheLefty (talk) 17:30, 17 December 2018 (EST)
 * If Fake Bowser appears as Tail Bowser then we should have Fake Tail Bowser. B700465189a9 (talk) 17:25, 10 March 2019 (EDT)
 * We would go with the official North American name, that in this case is Tail Bowser.--Mister Wu (talk) 20:52, 10 March 2019 (EDT)
 * The cardboard Bowser from Mario & Luigi Superstar Saga isn't sentinent. The Yoshi's Topsy Turvy thing is not a Fake Bowser either. The Tail Bowser should be considered as a Swoop/Bat Mega Mole/Morty Mole, and as such, split. That says, i'm interested about what the Mario & Luigi Nintendo Official Guidebook Japanese guide says about it. -- 08:27, March 14, 2019 (EDT)

I think there should be a Fake Bowser and a Tail Bowser page. The bowsers are too different to be counted as the same. User:LuigisMansion4GameCubeFan 15:44, 17 December 2019 (CTZ)

Is there a plan to go on with the split? While the internal data points out that Tail Bowsers are derived from Fake Bowsers, they keep their own name and appearance, and with Super Mario Run reintroducing the original Fake Bowsers, I still think that a split makes sense.—Mister Wu (talk) 16:59, February 28, 2020 (EST)
 * I plan on making a proposal at some point. -- 11:16, March 4, 2020 (EST)
 * Is there a need of a proposal in the first place? The only point brought up against the split, the internal name of Tail Bowsers in Super Mario 3D Land, was brought up by who was the one who stated that they wanted to go on with the split. When everyone agrees proposals should be avoided, as proposals were created to solve disagreements, so we should rather see if someone still has some points against the split.—Mister Wu (talk) 12:56, March 4, 2020 (EST)
 * I'm okay with splitting as long as Tail Bowser is considered a derivative/offshoot of fake Bowser. LinkTheLefty (talk) 10:44, March 5, 2020 (EST)
 * Like in the case of Baby Cheep and Flutter, different page doesn’t necessarily mean unrelated, they are indeed special fake Bowsers who were given a Super Leaf, so I agree with considering them as such.—Mister Wu (talk) 10:56, March 5, 2020 (EST)