Talk:Lava Bubble (blue)

...Official name? ;|

I been wondering the same thing...--Swooper888 07:42, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia Japan describes these things under バブル Bubble, so I guess they really are Podoboos after all. Vent 14:51, 28 May 2012 (EDT)

Different Name
Lava Bouncers.... I'm not too sure. They don't look like lava to me, more like melted ice. Since they resemble Podoboos, why not call them Ice Podoboos? This makes more sense in my opinion... 03:09, 29 August 2012 (EDT)


 * When we choose a name for a conjectural title, it must be as brief and accurate as possible. Lava is in a way accurate, because in Super Mario Galaxy the creatures emerge from lava. But feel free to make a Talk Page Proposal if you feel that it is necessary.


 * 03:16, 29 August 2012 (EDT)

Change Lava Bouncer to Ice Podoboo
Since it has been claimed that this enemy could be a Podoboo, isn't Ice Podoboo a better and more fitting name? This makes consistency for both their appearance and their lava origins.

Proposer: Deadline: September 12, 2012, 23:59 GMT

Change

 * 1) Per proposal.
 * 2) – per all. It's more fitting and describes better what enemies they are.
 * 3) Per proposal. Ice Podoboos is a more logical, professional and fitting name.
 * 4) In the article it says it is a Podoboo, easy decision.
 * 5) Per all.
 * 6) Per JORDAN DEBONO, MarioSmasher, Koopa K, and Technickal

Leave

 * 1) It still makes no sense to give a lava creature an ice name.
 * 2) Per Tails777.
 * 3) Per Tails
 * 4) Per Tails.

Comments
@Koopa K. Well that comment in the article is more of an assumption really. But since it's there, more of a reason to change the name.
 * I still would've gone with the proposal if it wasn't there.


 * I know thank you. I wrote it more for future possible opposers.

This is confusing me, the Podoboo isn't even ice related, why would we change the name to Ice Podoboo?


 * The Podoboo isn't ice related, that's why we're adding Ice in the beginning. We're adding Podoboo because, like the actual Podoboos, they emerge from lava.


 * Then if it isn't ice related, why are we adding ice to it? That makes no sence.
 * It looks like ice, it makes sense.
 * Just because it looks like ice, that doesn't mean it is ice. If we had an apple that looked like an orange, would we call it an orange? No, it's an apple never the less. This is the same deal.
 * Sorry to barge in, but can you suggest an alternative name, Tails? GreenDisaster (talk) 18:38, 10 September 2012 (EDT)
 * Like a better name for the article? I suggest leaving it as it is.
 * But if we recognize this enemy as a Podoboo, shouldn't its name reflect this? I'm not agreeing to the "Ice Podoboo" name, but "Lava Podoboo" is a mite redundant. GreenDisaster (talk) 18:54, 10 September 2012 (EDT)
 * We could call it Bouncing Podoboo. It's not the most creative thing, but it is descriptive.

Rename?
Shouldn't this be renamed now that Podoboos are called Lava Bubbles now? Binarystep (talk) 22:13, 25 March 2013 (EDT)
 * I'm not sure because the name is conjectural in the first place. Still, we can call them "Ice Bubble" just to be consistent with "Lava Bubble". EDIT: Also, those things aren't even made of ice in the first place. It's blue fire. 22:47, 25 March 2013 (EDT)

Rename Ice Podoboo to Blue Lava Bubble
I am proposing that we rename Ice Podoboo to Blue Lava Bubble because the name "Ice Podoboo" is a huge misnomer. First, these "ice" enemies come from lava and can burn Mario. Second, the name "Podoboo" is outdated; they're called Lava Bubble at this time of writing. Conjectural names are supposed to be accurate and simple; while it may be simple, "Ice Podoboo" is outright inaccurate and misleading

We do have a blue Lava Bubble enemy called Ember, but at least that enemy has a definite name. We can say, "Not to be confused with Ember" and "Not to be confused with Blue Lava Bubble".

Note: While "Bouncing Lava Bubble" might be another fitting name, there are a lot of normal Lava Bubbles that make bouncy movements, so I think the name is a bit of a misnomer.

If you have any other naming suggestions, feel free to put it in the comments. I'll consider it.

Proposer: Deadline: April 9, 2013, 23:59 GMT

Rename to "Blue Lava Bubble"

 * 1) Calling these fiery entities "ice" is downright misleading. If we want to name something based on its color, "ice" isn't the way to go. That's why I want to rename it.
 * 2) Per the reason I opposed to rename it Ice Podoboo in the first place. It's made of fire, not ice so it shouldn't be named Ice Podoboo.
 * 3) Ice Podoboos come out of lava and burn you? HEAD ASPLOSION!! Per all.
 * 4) Per all, otherwise the title's an oxymoron.
 * 5) Podoboos were renamed to Lava Bubbles a while before, so we should follow the same process for their sub-species. Also, how can they be ICE Podoboos when they burn you?
 * 6) - Per all. The current name is indeed misleading.
 * 7) Ice? They don't even FREEZE you!
 * 8) Per all.

Comments
Taken directly from the article itself: They seem to closely resemble Li'l Brrrs, but are fiery instead of icy.

Actually if ice is cold enough it can burn you
 * I wanted to say that "First, these "ice" enemies come from lava and can burn Mario by setting fire to his butt", but it sounds...um... silly. I'm pretty sure you can figure out what "burns" mean in this case. 19:25, 27 March 2013 (EDT)

Edit: LOL internet

I mentioned at the very top of the page that this enemy IS a Podoboo based on the Japanese name. Vent (talk) 02:51, 2 April 2013 (EDT)
 * Podoboos = Lava Bubble. We just chose Lava Bubble because it's the more recent name. Also, you're basing the name off Japan Wikipedia. Does that information have a source? 01:16, 3 April 2013 (EDT)

It's also in the Japanese official SMG guide. Vent (talk) 04:24, 13 April 2013 (EDT)
 * Can you provide a source for this? 05:34, 13 April 2013 (EDT)

Move to Ice Bubble
I am proposing we move this article to Ice Bubble, because the official Super Mario Galaxy Prima guide calls it that. I am well aware Prima Guides are our last priority for naming, but there's no other official source that gives this enemy a name, so we should move it to Ice Bubble.

Proposer: Deadline: August 16, 2013, 23:59 GMT

Move to Ice Bubble (Support)

 * 1) Per Proposal.

Keep as Blue Lava Bubble (Oppose)

 * 1) I have the guide as well and they are simply refered to as Lava Bubbles. Calling a lava or fire creature ice is misleading (as previously said). I opposed this idea once an I'll do it again.
 * 2) Per Tails777. These enemies are made of blue fire, not ice, which means when Mario touches it, his butt goes on fire.
 * 3) Per Tails777 and LGM.
 * 4) If they burn Mario, unless they happen to be dry ice, they are lava, then it should stay lava bubble.
 * 5) At times Prima guides can give false names for enemies, and the previous proposal for renaming them was a good reason to rename this because they don't freeze Mario, instead burn him so per all.
 * 6) The "blue" refers to its color, not if it is ice.
 * 7) No way. They aren't even icy! Per all.
 * 8) Per all
 * 9) Per all.
 * 10) There is a big difference between them!

Comments
Hey, I think an official Japanese SMG2 guide I own may name them. And for the record, their official artwork (which I still need to get around to scanning) appears to be an ice texture. Here's a photograph I took. If someone was fluent in Japanese, may we please seek the Romanised title?

http://i.imgur.com/Z3eOBVC.jpg

03:05, 10 August 2013 (EDT)


 * 'Kachikochi' and 'Meramera' respectively. I can read the descriptions but can't translate everything in them. Those are actually Li'l Brrrs and Li'l Cinders, darn it. GBAToad (talk) 03:59, 10 August 2013 (EDT)


 * Shit :P


 * 07:26, 10 August 2013 (EDT)

Confusion between Li'l Brr
Is it possible people are mistaking this enemy for the Lil Brrs? They do look alike. Should we put Not to be confused with... on this page?

Embers
We should change the name of the article to Ember! That makes more sense than Ice Bubble!

Maybe we'll find out the name once Super Mario 3D World's Prima Guide is released. I mean, they were confirmed via a picture... Barely, but y'know...
 * Even so, the Prima Guide isn't the best source for getting names from enemies. Besides, Ember isn't the best way to rename them because while Embers are just a blue variant of Lava Bubble, this is more like a subspecies of Lava Bubble. We have no idea if they're the same, so we assume that they're different. 16:54, 9 November 2013 (EST)

So... does the guide mention it at all? If yeah, what does it call it? Does it just call it Lava Bubble?


 * Embers are basically blue versions of lava bubbles in the 1st place. They do hav their differences. [[Image:Strollin' Stu.png|35x35px]] Bo yg  ey  Ma  rio  SMS Smolderin' Stu.png 20:49, 23 January 2014 (EST)

Move Blue Lava Bubble to Ember
The fact that this article is conjectural make a good reason that Blue Lava Bubble need to move to Ember, also since the red one in the Paper Mario (series) is name Lava Bubble and the blue one is name Ember make a another good reason this article need to be move. It is a conjectural name, it would be more appropriate if the article would be with Ember, the Blue-colored Lava Bubble's name in Paper Mario (series).

Proposer: Deadline: April 30, 2015, 23:59 GMT

Move to Ember

 * 1) Per my proposal.

Don't move

 * 1) I'm a bit sceptical of merging because there's no Japanese name known for these, which means it could be a case of something in a platformer resembling something from Paper Mario (see also: Spike Top and Red Spike Top).
 * 2) Per Binarystep.
 * 3) This TPP contradicts with another article. It has to be "Merge to Ember".
 * 4) - Merging it with Ember seems like too much interpretation. As stated in the comments, Lava Bubble would make more sense, but I actually think it's perfectly fine as a stand-alone article, despite the lack of an official name.

Comments
I'd rather actually merge this with Lava Bubble article itself. Aside from the fact that both these and regular Lava Bubbles (or are they?) appear in Super Mario Galaxy 2, both have the same behaviour in 3D World. SmokedChili (Talk) (Thoughts) 16:08, 16 April 2015 (EDT)

Binarystep, as the red one that appears in the Paper Mario (series) is known as the Lava Bubble and the blue one is named Ember, it makes us a little evidence that Ember is certainly considered as the Blue Lava Bubble. Better to go with the evidence that having articles with conjectural name.-- 16:20, 16 April 2015 (EDT)
 * I suppose, but I think this would be better off being merged with the Lava Bubble article if anything, unless an official name is found. Binarystep (talk) 16:31, 16 April 2015 (EDT)
 * I can see the rationale behind this proposal; after all, if the red Podoboo / Lava Bubble is considered the same in Paper Mario, then it stands to reason that Ember corresponds to the blue Lava Bubble. no? I believe we've seen blue Lava Bubbles in other appearances such as the Mario Party series, though; we're not saying that the blue Lava Bubbles of Hot Rope Jump are actually metamorphosing Embers, for instance. Overall, I think I agree with SmokedChili and Binarystep - in this case, the main Lava Bubble article would probably be the better merge at this point. LinkTheLefty (talk) 23:40, 17 April 2015 (EDT)

Naming issues
With access to the Prima Guides for Super Mario Galaxy and its sequel, I can safely say that naming this is slightly complicated. First of all, SMG1 bluntly calls them plain ol' Lava Bubbles during their first appearance: "King Kaliente sinks under the lava and unleashes a handful of Lava Bubbles." I'm not certain if we can just chalk this up to another Prima goof or if we're seriously going ahead with it, but there's aren't many other options: there's a "name" under its loosest definition used during the second Kaliente boss battle ("After rising from the attack, the king issues forth burning blue monsters."), and SMG2 isn't much more help ("After the second successful strike, Kaliente spits five blue flames at you."). That's all I was able to find. If we had to pick a name, the first one would be the most obvious one, but I'm not sure how comfortable I am with "Lava Bubble (blue)" or something. In any case, if we want an official name, this is probably the best we can do.
 * I'd say to just merge it with the main Lava Bubble article, they have literally no differences except color. Binarystep (talk) 23:22, 22 May 2015 (EDT)

Merge Blue Lava Bubble with Lava Bubble
After my first proposal failed and from the comments, I think this article need to be merge now with Lava Bubble. They are the same except from the color, what else? Also, since this is conjectural name, it will be better to put this with Lava Bubble until there's a official name for this one. So, why not?

Proposer: Deadline: June 25, 2015, 23:59 GMT

Support (with Super Mario Galaxy)

 * 1) Per LudwigVon. As pointed above by Time Turner, these are called "Lava Bubbles". I also don't believe different behaviour is a strong point, since there are actually multiple examples of enemies in core Mario series having different behaviours and looks; see for example Boos in Sunshine, Piranha Plants in 64 and Sunshine, as well as Mechakoopas in both Galaxies.
 * 2) Per all. I would suggest creating an article about the Galaxy enemies, but moving the blue lava bubbles to the normal ones.

Support (without Super Mario Galaxy)

 * 1) Per my proposal, change my vote.
 * 2) Makes sense; besides SMG, they are basically the same.

Oppose

 * 1) Per my comments below. If I recall correctly, the Galaxy incarnation is much different than the other Lava Bubbles. These jump out of the lava and make sort-of flopping movements on the ground, following you. Lava Bubbles are seen typically jumping out and into lava. I think that behavioral difference along with color difference is enough to separate the two. Not to mention, you tend to see these one at a time, whereas Lava Bubbles come in rows/patterns.
 * 2) - Per Bazooka Mario. The "perhaps name it 'Lava Bubble (blue)' instead" discussion in the above section might be a reasonable option too, but not a merge.
 * 3) Per both.
 * 4) Per all and my comments below. Merging the ones in 3D World could be an option, but the ones in the Galaxy games exhibit the unique trait of being able to jump even outside of lava. Lava Bubbles in other games either levitate or stay in place. Also, while the ones in 3D World could appear the way they do due to the blue lava this derived species is seen around typical red lava.
 * 5) Per all.

Comments
If you're opposing this because of the color difference, let me know you that the green and red Koopa Troopa share a article together.-- 20:46, 11 June 2015 (EDT)
 * I will not oppose due to their color alone, but their behavior in Galaxy 1 and 2 is unique from any red Lava Bubble as far as I see. I may be missing something from one of the spin-offs, but that's why I am hesitant to support this. Lumastar  ( talk) [[Image: SMG GreenLuma.jpg|30px ]] 21:49, 11 June 2015
 * I read through the Lava Bubble article, and I was reminded that in their appearance in Mario Party 2 they start off as blue before turning red. My last point still stands, but I will think over this before giving my one-sided opinion. Lumastar  ( talk) [[Image: SMG GreenLuma.jpg|30px ]] 21:55, 11 June 2015
 * Not voting yet, but I'd like to point out how Koopas seem to be the exception, not the rule (as evidenced by other merge proposals in the past). Binarystep (talk) 21:52, 11 June 2015 (EDT)

This one has drastically different behavior in Super Mario Galaxy, where they come out of the lava, and they make little hops toward you. If I recall correctly, they're not consecutive hops like a normal Lava Bubble, but more like hop, pause, hop, pause, and so on, so the movement is more like flopping than hopping; finally, they don't come in groups; these Lava Bubbles are typically found individually. Heck, I didn't even know they were lava bubbles since they look way more solid than normal fire. It's only in 3D World where the color differences don't matter. 22:02, 11 June 2015 (EDT)

Okay, I add a new option, you can change your vote if you want... -- 15:39, 12 June 2015 (EDT)
 * You can compromise and add information for both articles. There is no one stopping you from that, I believe. 17:25, 12 June 2015 (EDT)
 * Yeah. The best solution, imo, is the current state of the pages, with the blue variety being mentioned and linked to in the SMG, SMG2 and SM3DW sections of the main Lava Bubble article, and the main chunk of info about all three appearances staying here here, rather than merging this page or just merging part of it, thereby splitting up the blue info (and thus, necessitating this page to mention SM3DW but redirect users back to the main page). Just seems like a lot of bouncing around if all you wanna do is read about blue Lava Bubbles: it's simpler to leave it in one place rather than splitting hairs with a partial merge. - 18:01, 12 June 2015 (EDT)
 * Finally you are right Walkazo and Bazooka Mario, I will closed this proposal and state the blue one in the main Lava Bubble article, but leave the Blue Lava Bubble in this article.-- 18:26, 12 June 2015 (EDT)
 * Okay, sounds good. 18:30, 12 June 2015 (EDT)

@SmokedChili: Saying that "there are actually multiple examples of enemies in core Mario series having different behaviours and looks" is not a really strong case to make, especially when normal Lava Bubbles have appeared in Super Mario Galaxy 2. To argue that Galaxy 1 is just using creative differences is, what I feel, grasping at the straws and making unnecessary assumptions. 18:30, 12 June 2015 (EDT)

Internal name
"FireBubble" is the internal name for this enemy. Is it preferable to the current "Lava Bubble (blue)" now that this proposal is in effect? LinkTheLefty (talk) 13:27, 8 December 2017 (EST)
 * If we split off the SMG/SMG2 versions from this and merge the rest to Lava Bubble, then certainly. And if it weren't for the fact that normal ones appear in SMG2, the whole thing could be merged, given the amount of odd redesigns many enemies had in those games (though not to Sunshine/Superstar Saga levels). Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 13:57, 8 December 2017 (EST)
 * I've confirmed for myself that "LavaBubble" (dvd:/1 Data/files/ObjectData/LavaBubble.arc) is a separate internal name for the traditional red version in Super Mario Galaxy 2. I haven't checked Super Mario 3D World at this time, but I imagine it would be straightforward enough to include with the Super Mario Galaxy appearances. It acts completely differently in Super Princess Peach and is one of the few unnamed enemies not appearing in the game's glossary, though. It's probably supposed to be a "Sad Podoboo" given how the vibes tend to be color-coded (although it doesn't cry). LinkTheLefty (talk) 09:01, 16 January 2018 (EST)
 * The ones in 3D World are literally just reskinned red Lava Bubbles. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 21:21, 16 January 2018 (EST)
 * Right, and the blue Super Mario Galaxy Bubbles come from red lava and try to hop after Mario/Luigi, so it's definitely a palette swap in Super Mario 3D World. In that case, making the Fire Bubble article just about the Super Mario Galaxy games and merging the Super Princess Peach and Super Mario 3D World appearances with Lava Bubble is fine for now. LinkTheLefty (talk) 06:43, 17 January 2018 (EST)
 * Especially given there's already two separate other "Blue Lava Bubbles" already, lumping a bunch of other completely different ones together seems like an odd thing to do. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 08:01, 17 January 2018 (EST)

I may be off-topic with this just gonna throw this here: I asked Mister Wu about the Encyclopedia SMB names of these and they are called "Bubbles" in both Galaxies. SMG2 entry just gives it a color identifier to separate it from the red ones in that game. SmokedChili (talk) 10:08, 3 February 2018 (EST)
 * This is true as far as Shogakukan is concerned; in the book, the blue one is called "Bubble" in the Galaxy section (128), whereas in the Galaxy 2 section, the returning red one has that name and the blue one is labeled 「バブル(青)」 or "Bubble (blue)" (161). However, the problem with that simple identifier is that it can pretty much refer to any blue Lava Bubble rather than the Super Mario Galaxy enemy specifically, which is what using "Fire Bubble" would resolve per source priority exception.


 * For reference, the Super Princess Peach Shogakukan guide, 「スーパープリンセスピーチ 任天堂公式ガイドブック」 (Super Princess Peach Nintendo Kōshiki Guidebook), does not refer to that game's blue Lava Bubbles by name. It actually doesn't seem to have names for any of the enemies not listed in the in-game glossary - the closest are that the game's Blindfold Boos are generically referred to as 「テレサ」 (63, 124, 130, 180), the Japanese name for a Boo. It does, however, call the light sources that make them vanish and weaken Big Boos "spotlights" 「スポットライト」 (63), in case we want to make a separate article for that object. LinkTheLefty (talk) 20:42, 23 February 2018 (EST)
 * From what I can tell, this is how this should work: The SPP ones should be considered a similar situation to Red and Green Koopa Troopas, ie behavioral variations of the same enemy, and merged thusly; The SMG/SMG2 ones should stay in their own article, as they are distinct enough in design and behavior, and have that alternate file name; the SM3DW ones should be considered a similar case to the variously-colored Shy Guys in the Yoshi's Island games, ie a color variation that makes no gameplay difference whatsoever, and as such merged. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 19:01, 13 April 2018 (EDT)

We don't need to rename it Fire Bubble. The SME says it's blue in the Lava Bubble thing, and if we just rename this article to Blue Lava Bubble, everyone will be happy.
 * Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia calls it "Lava Bubble (blue)" (160), which is accurate to the Japanese but I have a feeling it was taken from this article's name given the controversy. LinkTheLefty (talk) 17:48, 24 October 2018 (EDT)
 * I'd be for the move, if the name "Fire Bubble" didn't make it confusing with the also-a-fire-bubble Lava Bubble. But since Fire Bubble isn't even so much as a redirect at this point, I suppose I'm indifferent to the change. 17:32, 29 October 2018 (EDT)
 * Unless you mentioned the guide somewhere, Toadette the Achiever has the 3D World Prima so he/she can tell us what does it says about them. -- 12:36, 16 December 2018 (EST)
 * Unless the partconjecture template is needed, what are the internal filenames for the blue Lava Bubble, Blindfold Boo and Security Thwomp? Security Thwomps currently has a conjectural name, and regarding Super Princess Peach, i'm interested if this is intended to be those found in Super Mario Galaxy.

I think it would be misleading, seeing that it is blue. I know there's also blue fire, but it's more like lava. -- 07:04, 8 January 2019 (EST)
 * (cough) Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 13:37, 8 January 2019 (EST)
 * IMO, this is how it should work: The title should be kept as-is, we should wait for more evidences on the Super Princess Peach thing, the SMG info can stay due to both games consinstently using "FireBubble" as the internal filename, while the Super Mario 3D World, the same color being coincidence or not, should be merged to Lava Bubble. -- 08:20, March 20, 2019 (EDT)
 * Fire Bubble is even less descriptive than current title TBH. We also have the red Urchin with an identifier though. -- 03:03, April 17, 2019 (EDT)
 * Also, given how the Lava Bubble's Japanese name is Bubble, "Fire" might just have been a descriptor to determine where it lives. -- 03:08, April 17, 2019 (EDT)
 * Not really. Lava Bubbles look like (and are) globs of lava, "Fire" Bubbles look to be somewhat more gaseous. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 03:25, April 17, 2019 (EDT)
 * Then what do you think about that red Urchin that uses an identifier, because of a proposal that drove me mad during this whole time? -- 03:34, April 17, 2019 (EDT)
 * They weren't quite recolors, as they had that fuzz thing going on, and the JP name was additionally more than just an identifier (of which the book had plenty). Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 03:39, April 17, 2019 (EDT)

Not really what i asked. It was because we are using an identifier rather than following the source priority proposal. The reason that drove me mad on this proposal is because LinkTheLefty continued to say that the internal filename was a "translation", but while it contained an english loanword, it wouldn't be much of an english name due to reusing the Urchin's Japanese name. (Iron Noko on Gorumondo talk page, anyone?) -- 03:45, April 17, 2019 (EDT)
 * It contained an English loanword, but so does Super Big Unbaba. "Fire Bubble" is nothing but English loanwords. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 04:09, April 17, 2019 (EDT)