Talk:Birdo/Archive 1

Birdo's Voice
How does Birdo get her voice back in Superstar Saga? She can speak as "Rookie", so how did she get it back?


 * She also said "Birdo" when they first saw her.


 * Yeah, but how did she get it back?

Maybe that was a different Birdo? 23:41, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

I imagine after the Peach Bots were a failure that they simply would have gone back and retrieved it once it had been abandoned by Cackletta, probably using a similar method as to the way it was stolen originally (E.Gadd was in that game yeah he could have helped?) I'd just assume that it was no pivotal enough of a story line to be included in a cutscene. - Despot_joil

You could mention those two possibilities in the article, but say the real reason in not known for sure.

Characters and Species
Information on Birdo, both "characters" and species, will go on this page. There is not one Birdo character, but many, and we are not creating an article on every specific Birdo. Unlike Yoshi or Toad, which started as a character and became a species, Birdo has always been a species and individual Birdos have appeared, such as what happened with Goombas and other enemies. -- Son of Suns

I would think the Birdo with the ring who always hangs-out with Yoshi is always the same person though. -- Sir Grodus


 * I would think the Birdo with the ring who always hangs-out with Yoshi is always the same Birdo though.


 * Corrected! --Bentendo 14:47, 26 March 2007 (EDT)


 * Well, it would not be incorrect to label Birdo a person. Birdo is an intelligent, sapient being, and thus can be labelled a person. Birdo is of course not a human though. Anyways, there are just so many individual Birdo characters, it would be better to keep all info on one page. In this game, a Birdo did this....in this game (likely the same Birdo from that game) did this....etc. -- Son of Suns


 * I was just kidding... 8/ --Bentendo 15:31, 27 March 2007 (EDT)


 * Umm.....well, the second part is still relevant. -- Son of Suns
 * Hey, you guys, shouldn't we make an individual Birdo (species) page? I mean, the species is different than the actual individual Birdo, am I correct? I know for a fact that they are a species from games like Super Mario Strikers. Any thoughts on this? --Jolene
 * My thoughts exactly. Based on the information in Super Mario Advance, each Birdo encountered by Mario and friends was the same (note the voice, and the irritation at their persistence, etc.).  This is proof in my book that there is a special Birdo.  Even Toad does not have that great of a distinction.  Let's take a vote. --Stumpers


 * Well, the birdo in Super Mario Bros. 2 is bad, while the birdo who is Yoshi's friend is good. They're a species. 20:14, 27 February 2008 (EST)

Well, I think that Birdo is indeed a species, but the Birdo that Yoshi is usually partnered with is THE Birdo. MarioFan9999 20:09, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

Should the article be separated into Birdo (species) and Birdo as a character?
'PLEASE DO NOT POST HERE. AN OFFICIAL PROPOSAL HAS BEEN CREATED ON Proposals. TRANSFER YOUR VOTE, PLEASE!' 01:38, 1 March 2008 (EST)

Now that we have proposals, this can't decide anything. I've been noticing some new votes coming up, so... should I make one? 09:50, 29 February 2008 (EST)
 * Yup. 09:59, 29 February 2008 (EST)

Support

 * 1) Stumpers
 * 2) Javier12345:Like that is Toads article
 * 21:25, 10 December 2007 (EST) I believe there is only one Birdo in SMB2 and that is the same one that appears in later sports games. Her ring makes her stick out from other Birdos and although she has appeared in less games, she is more distinct than Toad.
 * 1) Walkazo - Per all. But shouldn't we make this an official Proposal?
 * 2) - My comment below.
 * 1) - My comment below.

Oppose

 * 1) Son of Suns - There have been many Birdo characters and its quite clear they are all not the same Birdo.


 * 1) Theryguy512 19:57, 10 December 2007 (EST) Well, the Birdo (character) is a Birdo (species), and if we move this one, we have to move Yoshi, etc.


 * 1) http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/3473/linkswordmi2.gif Paper Jorge ( Talk&middot;Contributions)&middot; http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/3473/linkswordmi2.gif Per Son of Suns-we have no proof all those Birdos are the same. But we already moved Yoshi, Theryguy.

Comments
Please see my above comment for my reasoning. --Stumpers
 * Actually, my point is that we're being inconsistent, since we DO have all of those for Yoshi, Toad, and the like. 20:55, 10 December 2007 (EST)
 * This was started before the proposals were in effect. I don't do proposals b/c I'm very sporatic in terms of Wiki editing, but if you wanted to submit this and transfer the votes you're more than welcome.  01:15, 31 December 2007 (EST)

We have one Birdo and an entire species. Should we split? Yes. One Birdo has appeared, and it happened to be the Birdo we all know. And the species we fight in SMB2. So I see a need why we need to spit them. I know without the two combined, the article would be a bit smaller, but, Birdo deserves to have its own article, and so does the species.

Birdo is definitely a species, because the Super Mario Bros. 2 birdo is bad and the one or ones (I don't care) who hang out with Yoshi are good, as Yoshi is good. It could be split, but since it's not for sure that any two are the same, and there's not much to say about Birdo as a character or species, you should maybe leave it as one, and mention in the article that the Birdo in the sports and party games may be the same, but it's unsure. After all Koopa Troopas are in many sports games, and they're probably not the same. 16:34, 29 February 2008 (EST)


 * The way that the Wiki has previously (Toad, Yoshi) decided whether there could be a character AND a species was whether the character was referred to directly. As in, "Go with Yoshi and save Peach!" rather than, "Go with THIS Yoshi and save Peach!" And, Birdo has been referred to directly as Birdo in Mario Party (as has any "species" character).  Additionally, the manual to Super Mario Bros. 2 (USA) specifically notes Birdo, Mouser, etc. as characters rather than a species.  This idea was further cemented in Super Mario Advance when Birdo was given a voice.  It remained consistent throughout the game.  She voiced continued growing annoyance, and even when a green Birdo showed up (which you would think would constitute a different character), the line was, "I'm ready for you THIS time!" which of course implies that she had seen Mario and friends before.  In other words, if nothing else, the character article should cover "Birdo" from Super Mario Bros. 2 (USA).  You can't deny that.  20:06, 29 February 2008 (EST)


 * But do you really think one Birdo would fight Mario and friends, and then be Yoshi's secret girlfriend? 20:35, 29 February 2008 (EST)


 * I would hold my own opinion below Nintendo's for the purpose of the Wiki in either case, but I gotta admit you have a point. But: love can do strange things, right?  01:06, 1 March 2008 (EST)


 * Heh heh. I'm not sure of their real relationship, but it's obvious they're friendly with each other. I think the best expaination is that the Birdos in the sports and party games are the same, but not the one or ones in SMB2.

Heh

Could there at least be one mention that it's unknown why Birdo changes from bad to good? It doesn't have to say there might be two birdos, just say it's unknown why she- he- it changes alliances.
 * Of course! What I was trying to get away from was speculation regarding solutions to the "plot hole." I mean, I'm fine with speculation when it's needed (ie the Luigi's Mansion Bowser Suit theory), but it's just when the article can be written with out it, I'm pretty sure we're supposed to leave it out.  So, to point out a plot hole is a-ok, and is actually good writing if you ask me.  18:05, 12 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Maybe I'll add it later. I thought that's what you didn't really want me to do.

Birdo image
Can we use this for the first image???Javier12345

Issue
There's a little issue I have about Birdo in Mario and Luigi: Superstar Saga - Does the game have two Birdos, or just one? I mean, for one thing, there's the voice. The first Birdo gets her (yes, her) voice stolen, in disguise of Peach. The later Birdo, Popple's helper, can talk. This was discussed in the "Birdo's Voice" section above, and one user said it might have been a different Birdo. Another user had a theory about Birdo getting her voice back after it was abandoned by Cackletta.But to be honest, that theory is kinda far-fetched since there's no evidence of it in the game. Also, the first Birdo helps Peach (meaning that one is good) and the other is a boss who attacks Mario and Lugi (meaning that one is bad). And correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I remember Popple referring to the Birdo directly as "Birdo", which would make that one the Birdo. So if I'm right and the game has two Birdos, the first one is a generic Birdo and the second one is the Birdo. Anyone agree? 6/4/08
 * I think you had the right solution above, but what it would mean now that the page is split is that you would mention both instances of a Birdo character in the article and say that one was definately Birdo, and the other used the same sprite. If you want to find Popple's exact wording, someone on GameFAQs put up the game's script for the cutscenes.  I can confirm that Birdo was called, "Birdo" on the battle screen.  22:58, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

Possible vandalism
Has Wario565 been vandalizing the article? Look at the history. He wrote stuff like "ORGINALY BIRDO WAS A BOY BUT THEY CHANGED ITS GENDER TO A GIRL" at the top of the biography section. I reverted it, but he's been doing a lot of stuff to the article. 15:08, 30 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Technically, it's not vandalism, but it should be deleted, so thanks CY. I'll take a look at his edits and probably drop him a message.  18:20, 30 March 2008 (EDT)

Oh great now Birdoshi is spamming the page with vandal. Princess Grapes Butterfly 15:46, 31 March 2008 (EDT)
 * I talked to him/her about putting the images in thumbs. Thanks for cleaning up, Princess Grapes!  16:14, 31 March 2008 (EDT)

Thanks. (So many image on that page O_0.Yay for Grapes I mean me my first time removing vandalism!) Princess Grapes Butterfly 16:19, 31 March 2008 (EDT)

Hey Princess Grapes Butterfly so that you insist on clearing images of Birdo that I put that by the way those images are very real and that all those images come from their respective games and soon your you say that this is vandalism and it is not certain I I put images in the beginning and your you erased them but that was so that I put bad but Stumpers soon! it said to me as to put them or and soon I put them or and your you insist on clearing them and like examples the Birdo that this giving returned from Mario Strikers Charged also the Birdo that give kisses and the Birdo that throws eggs and if this it beams so that you say that either images in this section of Birdo are many then these mistaken since characters like Dry Bones are others and where this normal section also has many images and GIF and when you clean one page of the things that puts another user you must be safe of not erasing the information that or was in that page then that you did your with me since I put images single real and your you erased information for the other affluent beam what beams and lets erase my images who is certain.

En español: Hey Princess Grapes Butterfly por que insistes en quitar las imagenes de Birdo que yo pongo que por cierto esas imagenes son muy reales y que todas esas imagenes vienen de sus respectivos juegos y luego tu dices que esto es vandalismo y no es cierto al principio yo puse unas imagenes y tu las borraste pero eso fue por que yo las puse mal pero luego Stumpers! me dijo como ponerlas bien y luego yo las puse bien y tu insistes en quitarlas y como ejemplos la Birdo que esta dando vueltas de Mario Strikers Charged tambien la Birdo que da besos y la Birdo que arroja huevos y si esto lo haces por que dices que ya hay muchas imagenes en esta seccion de Birdo pues estas equivocada ya que hay otros personajes como Dry Bones y donde esta seccion tiene muchas imagenes normales y tambien GIF y cuando limpies una pagina de las cosas que pone otro usuario debes de estar segura de no borrar la informacion que ya estaba en esa pagina pues eso hiciste tu conmigo ya que yo puse solo images reales y tu borraste informacion para la otra haz bien lo que haces y deja de borrar mis imagenes que son ciertas.

Birdoshi: Please don't use a Spanish-English translator. It's not clear in English. Grapes: Birdoshi's edits are not vandalism/spam. Please see Vandalism. What you're finding issue with is the relevancy/professionalism of the images. Both of you, remember that you should assume good faith (ie, that an edit was made to better the Wiki) whenever possible. You'll notice that Birdoshi has added some very relavent images, although I'm questioning the two animated GIFs. I think we need to take a vote on whether to keep or remove each image. Birdoshi and Princess Grapes, can you please post the images you two are arguing about here and we can discuss them? 02:25, 1 April 2008 (EDT)

I had a feeling that there were offical except the gif. He/She put some image that don`t belong in some sections. How 'bout we just put the offical images in the gallary! (He/She Put a foto of Birdo dancing in his power section. that not showing birdo power.) Princess Grapes Butterfly 06:17, 1 April 2008 (EDT)
 * I think that dancing Birdo was from Super Mario Strikers? In which case it belongs on the Birdo (species) page rather than this page regardless.  16:28, 1 April 2008 (EDT)

Yeah I agree! Princess Grapes Butterfly 17:24, 1 April 2008 (EDT)
 * The other one had her blowing kisses, right? I think that's from Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga, which does make applicable to this article.  19:00, 1 April 2008 (EDT)

Bueno es que no se hablar muy bien el ingles por eso lo traduzco si quieren pueden pasarme un buen traductor mientras aprendo el ingles y respecto a las imagenes pues es cierto lo de la Birdo que baila bueno ya se me equivoque y es que cuando puse la imagen me falto agregarle al articulo donde vienen los poderes de Birdo que ella gira muy rapido pero bueno la imagen de Birdo bailando ya la voy a poner bien de hecho se las voy a dejar aqui abajo junto con las otras 2 imagenes GIF que por cierto la Birdo que arroja besos si es de Mario & Luigi Superstar Saga correcto Grapes! y aparece en el juego cuando Peach les explica a Mario y a Luigi que cuando vino la bruja y le robo la voz pues que no era ella (Peach) si no que era Birdo transformada en Peach y en eso aparece otra Peach frente a Mario y a Luigi y derrepente se destruye el disfraz y resulta que si es Birdo y ahi ella arroja besos y luego ve a unos niños frijol y se los persigue. Y bien la otra imagen de Birdo que arroja huevos es de Super Smash Bros Melee donde ella aparece en su escenario y arroja huevos a los personajes de Smash.

Good it is that not to be spoken very or english for that reason I translate it if they want can pass a good translator to me while I learn english and with respect to images because it is certain the one of the Birdo that dances good either mistakes to me and is that when I put the image I lack to add to him to I article where the powers come from Birdo that it turns very fast but good the image of Birdo dancing or I am going it to put or in fact I am going away to down leave them along with other 2 images GIF that by the way the Birdo that throws kisses if she is of Mario & Luigi Superstar Saga correct Grapes! and it appears in the game when Peach explains to them to Mario and to Luigi that when the witch came and him robbery the voice since she was not she (Peach) if who was Birdo transformed Peach and that does not appear another Peach as opposed to Mario and to Luigi and destroys the disguise to him and is that if is then Birdo and she throws kisses and soon she sees children bean and she persecutes them. And the other image of Birdo that throws eggs is well of Super Smash Bros Melee where it appears in her scene and throws eggs to characters of Smash.

-> http://www.mariowiki.com/images/4/4e/BirdoSmallAni.gif

http://www.mariowiki.com/images/1/1b/Mauj.gif

http://www.mariowiki.com/images/e/e4/Charged.JPG

I thought that this image (The one with the ->) is from Super Mario Advance? (GBA) 20:12, 1 April 2008 (EDT)

Hey Princess Grapes Butterfly watches the photo of Birdo giving returned is a power or that? I think that if so that in Mario Strikers Charged Birdo gives returns when it brings the ball and cradled an enemy she approaches she sends it to fly with his returns.

Hey Princess Grapes Butterfly mira la foto de Birdo dando vueltas es un poder o que? yo pienso que si por que en Mario Strikers Charged Birdo da vueltas cuando trae la pelota y cunado un enemigo se acerca ella lo manda a volar con sus vueltas.

Oh I didn't know! I don't have that game. Princess Grapes Butterfly 20:45, 1 April 2008 (EDT)

oh pobre de ti pero tarde o temprano lo conseguiras esta muy padre el juego pero bueno mira te mando este link para que veas las animaciones de Birdo ya saves cuando ella anota un gol asi celebra ella y en la segunda animacion ella da vueltas y luego arroja un huevo mirala.

oh poor of you but sooner or later you are going it to play this very cool the game but good sight I send east Link to you so that you see the animations of Birdo if when it writes down a goal she celebrates and in the second animation she gives returns and soon she throws an egg.

Oh really (It looks more like dance.) Princess Grapes Butterfly 21:05, 1 April 2008 (EDT)

If I if I have the game and it watches this is the Link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WNYZ7mAJWY&mode=related&search=

and that you think of the video

y que opinas del video

Que pasa ya lo vistes responde pues no que eres buena discutiendo

That it happens already you observed the video then answers not that you are good discussing

As I mentioned earlier, the Strikers pictures and information aren't a problem: they should only be on the Birdo (species) page. The kissing image should be placed under personality or Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga. The egg shooting image should be placed under abilities or Super Mario Bros. 2. 22:59, 1 April 2008 (EDT)

ok! Stumpers

There is no personality section, actually. We should have one, we have one for a plant, for heaven's sake. Just it might be hard with Birdo sometimes good and sometimes bad, she (yes, it is she) has no set personality. I told you, Stumpers...

Then I am going to make the section of the pesonality of her

Pues voy a hacer la seccion de la pesonalidad de ella

>.> Um... 'k. She always struck me as a Rouge the Bat sort of personality. Kind hearted at the core, but with very loose morality. Well, if you have problems putting the pieces together to find a set personality, I think I could help. I'm pretty sure the key thing is this:
 * She's flirtatious and very affectionate (kissie, kissie!), even when she doesn't know someone very well. (met Yoshi in Mario Tennis, Popple in Mario & Luigi)
 * She flip-flops in everything according to her desires. She's not afraid to fight her old aquaintences for a new love (Mario & Luigi).

Yeah, that's basically my interpretation. Her personality doesn't change, only her affections. Not the kind of girl you expect to settle down anytime soon! 02:14, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

No. The personality section doesn't make any sense, and it's in the wrong place. I think someone else needs to write it. Where are all the images coming from? 18:25, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

The image of Birdo is of Mario Party 7 whell, she winn the game.

I'm glad the personality section was rewritten. Thanks Stooben Rooben, but it's not actually bad writing, it just looks bad since it was translated from Spanish. 16:01, 14 April 2008 (EDT)

Age
--http://www.mariowiki.com/images/1/1b/Mauj.gif 15:18, 24 April 2008 (EDT)Birdo is a small kid? Or she is a great girl? I talk about the age.
 * Generally Nintendo leaves the ages of characters indeterminent. Based on a comparison between her and Yoshi, in addition to her love life, I would place her around 18-30 in human years, but that's not official, just a guess, so we CAN'T put it into the article.  23:44, 24 April 2008 (EDT)

--http://www.mariowiki.com/images/1/1b/Mauj.gif 21:01, 25 April 2008 (EDT)I think so, she have 17 years, she behaves like one girl of preparatory. And, but the Dinosaurs are very great and she is small, and she does not even have breast, so that she is one little girl,like about 13 years.
 * Uh... Birdo's a dinosaur. Dinosaurs don't have breasts?  Not to mention Birdo was originally a male, so unless he's been takin' some estrogen... I just think Birdo's age shouldn't be an issue.  We don't know how old Peach, Toad, Mario, Bowser, etc. are, why would we know how old someone more obscure like Birdo?  And we can't judge based on appearance or personality seeing as Birdo's, well... a fictional dinosaur. UrsulaBoi 11:12, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

--http://www.mariowiki.com/images/1/1b/Mauj.gif 19:17, 26 April 2008 (EDT)Hellooooo! There are many characters who have breasts,and they are rare animals and have breasts!,and Birdo is not real, and are many Birdos, and the Birdo of Doki Doki Panic, yes he is male,but, he is one of many Birdos that there is,there is Birdos females and there is Birdos males,and all the Birdos females and males they are called equal,Birdo, and our Birdo is female, since she exists from Mario Tennis N64 and in this game she is female,the other Birdos of the last games, they are others Birdos of many that they exist,his gender does not matter they are Birdos of the crowd.

Rewrite?
This article is in need of a big rewrite. A lot of it's information is either horribly placed or horribly biased. The Introduction, Biography, Spin-Off Information, and Artwork & Screenshots sections are fine. Other Appearances needs a LOT of work. It's jam packed with information that is very confusing, and not placed well. The Other Information sections are very biased, with the Relationships section being the worst there. Don't get me wrong, this article has a lot of information, but the overall presentation is... Poor. And I don't think I could rewrite it too well, and perhaps it's just me. Which is why I've brought it up on the talk page; To see if it's just me (get others thoughts), and to get others alerted that it needs a rewrite.
 * Maybe It's because Birdoshi, Birdo's apparent biggest fan, is learning English as a second language, so what she writes is not always clear. I also don't think she understands not to put opinions into the articles. If there's anything really bad, someone will take care of it eventually.

--http://www.mariowiki.com/images/1/1b/Mauj.gif 22:23, 1 May 2008 (EDT)Hey!! and the Quotes of Birdo?

Birdoshi is doing very good for an ESL (English as a second language) writer, and plus Birdoshi is learning the ropes of things around the Wiki at the same time. Birdoshi's content is usually good though! 22:58, 1 May 2008 (EDT)

--http://www.mariowiki.com/images/1/1b/Mauj.gif 16:15, 2 May 2008 (EDT)Thanks Stumpers!!! that is cute of its part!! and it is truth!!
 * No problem! I'm learning Spanish myself, and even though I'm in my fifth year of it, it's still really hard, so I understand where you're coming from.  21:56, 5 May 2008 (EDT)

Umm, isn't Birdo a male????
 * Originally she was a male, but Nintendo "retconned" (ie created an inconsistency and ran with it) her to be female. Her trophies in Super Smash Bros. Melee and Brawl (both Japanese and English versions) are your best bet for finding out more if I remember correctly.  21:56, 5 May 2008 (EDT)

Isn't there Two Birdos on Female (that likes Yoshi) and the Male? (Or maybe it was just a rumor.) Princess Strawberry Butterfly 16:57, 6 May 2008 (EDT)

Just a rumour. Ok, so, what's the verdict on the relationships section?
 * Well, I don't see why Toad should be there after 1 game. 14:43, 9 May 2008 (EDT)
 * But can we bring the Others relationship section back? I think it explained the stuff I was trying to say during the proposal to split into character and species. 11:43, 10 May 2008 (EDT)
 * I think all threee of you guys will like this... I know DP does already: check out the Princess Daisy Talk Page. Under the header, "No, just no" (or something like that) I offered an alternate solution to this.  Just go have a look.  12:15, 10 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Oh so it is a rumor so that mean Birdo a male.

--http://www.mariowiki.com/images/1/1b/Mauj.gif 20:48, 11 May 2008 (EDT)Yeah, Birdo its female!
 * I think Birdo was originally male, but the decided (s)he was female. But you don't need to talk about that here.

--http://www.mariowiki.com/images/1/1b/Mauj.gif 16:59, 13 May 2008 (EDT)It thinks what you want,but Birdo is female,so, please, you must respect to Birdo, equal, you do not speak of that form here.
 * CrystalYoshi wasn't disrespecting Birdo – (s)he was merely stating the facts. 17:03, 14 May 2008 (EDT)

--http://www.mariowiki.com/images/1/1b/Mauj.gif 18:08, 14 May 2008 (EDT) yeah yeah

Oddly in Mario Kart Wii Birdo's bio states the Birdo is a female.

--http://www.mariowiki.com/images/1/1b/Mauj.gif 18:52, 14 May 2008 (EDT)Yeah!, Birdo is a female in very much games!.
 * Alright, let's settle this once and for all. Birdo was, at one point, male; only so in the older games (Doki Doki Panic, Super Mario Bros. 2, etc.) Later on, Birdo's gender was swapped to female. She has since been labeled as a female in any and all games (including remakes). So, for now, Birdo is a female, a male no longer. End of story. 23:20, 27 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Whoa, man. I don't think that's for you to decide. I have the instruction manual for the Japanese version of Double Dash!! and it states Birdo is male. I think it's a bit earlly to decide about its gender, just yet.
 * Sorry, I got outta hand. =| This whole "gender controversy" seems quite superfluously-incorrect somehow. I just don't understand why Birdo is constantly flipped back and forth to be male, then female, and back again. She's pink, and acts quite feminine, yet most of the Japanese instruction manuals (that I've read online) indicate Birdo's male. ...I'd almost classify Birdo as in it. ...Is it possible that in America Birdo is considered female, but in Japan Birdo's a male? This is why I hardly ever edit this article: if I put 'she' instead of 'he' or vice-versa, it's always wrong. There's no confirmed gender, which makes Birdo more of an 'it' balanced between the two said genders. Once again, sorry for losing my temper up there. 23:40, 27 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Oh, yes. That is very possible.  Vivian is in that same boat: a male in Japan but female in America, probably to avoid accusations that crossdresing/homosexual characters are unfit for family games.  The collective views of what children should and should not be exposed to is very different in Japan and America.  22:08, 1 June 2008 (EDT)
 * You're probably 100% right. America is very, very "concealing" of this type of stuff. 22:13, 1 June 2008 (EDT)


 * Let me state this for everyone.

Birdo is male. Although this is true even if you were to ask Shigeru Miyamoto himself he would have to tell you that Birdo has no real gender. Although this is true it is a fact that Birdo is known to be a transvestite male in Japan. America will refer to Birdo as she, because it is more simple to tell people playing a Mario game that if it looks like a girl, it is a girl. Due to this, it is most logical to refer to Birdo as not a gender, but just say Birdo's name or use the word "it" or "its". It's not hard people. ForeverDaisy09

User box
Why there's a userbox on this page is this a glitch? (Or is that vandal) No idea. Maybe someone put it by mistake?

I think it is a glitch beacause if you tried to edit the talk page you can't see the User box template.

Yeah, it's freaky. The ghost userbox... 20:13, 10 May 2008 (EDT)

It came out of no where. Hmmmm I just wonder how were going to remove this.

Well, can anyone else besides us three see it? 20:18, 10 May 2008 (EDT)

I think so.
 * Yup, I can see it. 20:25, 10 May 2008 (EDT)

But can you see it in the source of the page? I mean what you get to when you click edit.

Nope all I see is just the word writen here. That very odd. But then you press show peview the user boxes shows up.
 * I'll check out the page section-by-section to see where it might be hidden... 20:33, 10 May 2008 (EDT)
 * I fixed it! Up at the top, User:Despot_joil signed his message  , which put his userpage content up there. It works the same way with a sig – you sign   , the your signature's page content appears; if you sign   , then your userpage's content appears.  20:43, 10 May 2008 (EDT)

I'm really really sorry! I had no idea that would happen when I signed my user name to my post incorrectly (mostly because I was unaware I signed it wrong). As you know thanks to Stooben Rooben, also thanks to Stooben Rooben for fixing it for me, sorry you had to do so much work to fix my blunder. I had no Idea it had happened. I'll try to be more careful in future. Sorry for the confusion. I hope I do it right this time (I'm pretty new at this I have not got the hang of everything yet). Despot joil
 * It's okay. It wasn't any trouble to fix. ;)
 * Thanks, SR. It's okay, DJ. Next time, try following the instructions on Help:Signature, and then if you type three of these ~ things (four to include the date and time) it will show your signature.  07:20, 11 May 2008 (EDT)
 * So it was a user sig the did that.

Italian name
Are you sure the Italian name doesn't actually refer to Ostro? The mix-up was there in the English SMB2 credits. - 13:45, 5 June 2008 (EDT)
 * "Strutzi" is definitely Birdo's Italian name. Look here (0:15). It's Mario Party 7 in Italian, and Toadsworth calls Birdo "Strutzi". I also wondered about the name, it surely has something to do with that mix-up. Anyone (Italian) here who could clear it up? --Grandy02 14:01, 5 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Now I'm unsure if the name really comes from "struzzo" (ostrich). Because I read the Italian name of Mona's microgame set "Cute Cuts" in WarioWare: Touched!, which is "Tocchi stuzzicanti". They replaced "cute" with "stuzzicante". As I've read, this word means "appetizing" or "stimulating". Maybe it is used in a similar manner as the English "cute" to refer to "cute" people? It would be at least more likely to name Birdo/Catherine/Strutzi after a word like this than after "ostrich". Hum, I think only a native speaker of Italian could definitely say what Strutzi means. But I don't know any such a user here on MarioWiki. --Grandy02 14:45, 26 July 2008 (EDT)

Birdo
Hey!!!, I dont know, why? in all the Birdo article,this refer to Birdo how male!, is female!, Aaaagghhh!! I am tired of this!!.
 * Well, it's a controversy, so not everyone will refer to Birdo as female. I think it's female, but until we've figured this out, we should maybe just say "it" and sometimes just "Birdo". Fixitup thinks that Birdo is a male passing itself as a female, but I don't know it that's true. I think Birdo is male in Japan, and Birdo used to be male, but now it's female. Maybe we should have a vote on what gender to refer to it as. 12:59, 7 June 2008 (EDT)
 * I agree with having a vote, and the article of vivian has a similar problem now, it doesn't refer to her neither to male nor female. I personally think both of them are female. Javier12345 23:20, 8 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Solution? --> Let's put a notice at the opening of the article saying that Birdo is male in Japan and female outside of Japan (or whatever is the facts)... then, just as the Wiki uses American names for everything, we use American genders as well. This doesn't mean that we remove any information, though.  23:27, 9 June 2008 (EDT)
 * This seems like a very good idea to me! I't accurate and informative but, will keep the article consistent. (Plus it is polite to call a gender confused person by there preferred gender even a fictional dinosaur.) Despot joil
 * That last point is very true. I'm sure if we asked the folks at Wikipedia or Britanica they'd agree.  13:03, 10 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Wait a minute-- her bio in Mario Kart Wii calls her "she." That settles it, she's now official female. So... can we call her as such? 20:43, 10 June 2008 (EDT) If anyone disagrees, let's have a vote.
 * As bad as I feel for FD09, since he obviously cares about this site very much, I'm afraid I'm caught siding against him again. I think he (and perhaps one other user who is not actively commenting here either) were the only opposers, so if we do end up voting there will be a majority for "she".  23:33, 10 June 2008 (EDT)
 * I don't care one way or another on calling Birdo as a whole she, as long as the gender controversy section stays and people realize that Birdo does have that about him/herself. I personally consider Birdo male, as he's such in Japan and was such in earlier games.  Also, I'd like to point out that the recent games saying Birdo is female shouldn't be the end-all deciding factor, since SOME recent games say Birdo is male (ie. Mario Strikers Charged).  UrsulaBoi 01:05, 11 June 2008 (EDT)
 * You have my assurance as a sysop that removing the gender controversy section without prior consensus would currently be vandalism, and will be treated as such. Please keep in mind that the Mario Strikers series contains multiple Birdos, and thus a maximum of one can be the Birdo.  01:33, 11 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Oh, I totally understand about the multiple Birdo's. But, at the same time, they chose their words as "he" instead of "they".  Also, in Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Birdo's considered "indeterminate gender," which I think works fine.  Like I said, it doesn't matter much to me if the entire page says Birdo is female as long as it points out the evidence that Birdo might not be one.  I do find it strange that so many people refuse to believe Birdo as anything but female, however.  UrsulaBoi 13:17, 11 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Maybe they refuse to call Birdo anything but female because they're against this thing called cross-dressing. Also, the only time Birdo is usually called a male is in Japan, sort of like Vivian (except Vivian is male in Japan).

You realise that crossdressing isn't an accurate term, since this character does not wear clothes...... - Ultimatetoad
 * Technically it is. Birdo wears a bow on it's head. Most boys, in fact, do not.

Bows arent clothes. They're accesories..... But anyway, I thought Birdo's were a species. A species can usually be gender (outside of Pokemon, that is...). Maybe there are Girl Birdo's and Boy Birdo's... - Ultimatetoad
 * Maybe...but the only time I've seen a Birdo without a bow is if you rip is off its head and in the NES SMB.2, where it said it did wear a bow. o_O

...Why don't we just say "Birdo's gender is extremely inconsistent from game to game" and be done with it?
 * I support Blitz's idea. But, I have a question. In the controversy section, it says it is possible that Birdo is a transexual character. Is that really needed there?
 * Yeah, that's speculation. Get rid of it!  We should say, like Blitzwing suggested, that Birdo's gender is male in the original Super Mario Bros. 2 USA and the Japanese versions of games, but female in all American releases after SMB2USA, and then walk away without drawing conclusions.  15:58, 11 June 2008 (EDT)

That there are multiple Birdoes in Mario Strikers doesn't count as a counter argument. There were quite a lot Birdoes in the first game already, and in this SMB2, the gender controversity (which was a controversity to begin with: "Birdo is a boy who thinks he's a girl".) was started. Birdo's gender isn't different between versions here, it's controversial within the same version. It's nothing that arose because of inconsistencies between different versions or games, but something that was intended, and it should be treated as such. - 16:41, 11 June 2008 (EDT)

Oh, I am sad!, this is a war!!, please,stop, Birdo is female and this is all!!
 * If you believe in the "retcon" principle, when a game made later comes out contradicting an earlier game, the newer game takes precedence. It's not official Nintendo policy, but if you want to think of Birdo as female, you can argue that she was "retconned" into a girl.  21:08, 11 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Hey, if Nintendo intended for Birdo to be male they would refer to Birdo as "he" in her Mario Kart Wii bio. But they don't-- they refer to her as "she". Mario Strikers Charged is a game which has the Birdo species in it. If they refer to those Birdos as male, it says nothing about the individual character Birdo. So therefore, we should refer to Birdo as female in the artice. We can keep the gender controversy section, though. 12:41, 12 June 2008 (EDT)
 * There seems to be some confusion here over gender and sex. Gender is psychological and determined most by culture, while sex is biologically determined.  Whether her sex is male or female (or whether she has any biological sex at all), is debatable, but she obviously identifies herself as female-gendered.  It is for this reason I think Birdo/Birdetta should be referred to as "she" Goomb-omb 19:07, 12 June 2008 (EDT)

Birdo is NOT female, regardless of your fanon opinion. I don't care if you absolutely love Birdo, he's not a she. Birdo is a male posing as a female. It is cross-dressing as he wears a bow and a diamond ring. This is how Japan ties him in with being a male posing as a female. Like I said before, due to this it is most logical to stray away from referring to Birdo as a specific gender. In America, Birdo is referred to as 'she' because Birdo looks like a she. Do you honestly expect Nintendo to tell the people playing Mario games in America to tell us Birdo's a boy with how he looks? Do you realize how confused Americans would get? It would only cause problems. Although this is an American wiki, and we go by the American way, it makes the most sense to just stray away from the gender issue in general. It only makes things easier. Calling Birdo 'she' throughout the article would only go against the true character definition, and referring to Birdo as 'he' throughout the article would only be seen as, like I said, confusing. SOO the simplest way is to call Birdo 'it' when necessary and use Birdo's name as much as possible. Do we get it yet? I don't feel like writing another one of these. FD09
 * It is not a "fanon" opinion. If you read what I wrote, I never said that Birdo was biologically female, in fact it was Nintendo that said "he often thinks he is girl." Transvestites and transsexuals in the real world often go by their assumed gender, not their biological one. Get your facts straight and read the preceding comments before you throw a tantrum.  However, "it" will suffice.Goomb-omb
 * Do you assume I was actually talking to you? I feel you are mistaken. Also, I'm not upset, so I don't see how I'm throwing a tantrum. Calm down, person. FD09


 * According too more current sources, Birdo is refered too as a girl. It is not a fanon opinion that Birdo is a girl. As Goomb-omb said, get your facts straight. I think that it should be called "he" in sections where it was a boy posing as a girl, "she" in places where she is a confirmed girl, and "it" elsewhere. GreenKoopa - Comments or questions?
 * Like I said, in American that is so, and I explained why. Birdo is never 'confirmed' as a girl, and more than anything, Birdo is hinted as being male. FD09
 * FD09, since when can you tell everyone what the article must say? Just because you think Birdo is male doesn't mean we have to refer to it as "he". Most of us agree here that we use "she", because she's a she in most NA games, or it.
 * Something I'll never understand is why when someone tries to explain something, people assume they are trying to rule with an iron fist. Also, I never said we should refer to Birdo as he. FD09
 * Your quote: Birdo is NOT female, regardless of your fanon opinion. I don't care if you absolutely love Birdo, he's not a she. Birdo is a male posing as a female., you're saying that Birdo is male no matter what, basically saying that we should have it as that. I never was acting like I was ruling with an iron fist, I was questioning why you get to tell everyone what the article must say.
 * Uhm, just because I said Birdo is absolutely male, doesn't mean I said that's what we should refer to Birdo as throughout the article. Also, you don't even understand what you're saying, as I never said you said you were the one ruling with an iron fist, I said you were acting like I was. Also, why should you get to tell everyone what the article says? I was voicing my opinion and explanation, nothing wrong with that. FD09
 * Lol I just typed that exact quote. I agree with Toadette, and also, it doesn't matter if Nintedno originally said she was male, as they currently regard her as female.  Even if we all agree that Birdo is biologically male, Birdo identifies as female in any game and should be treated as such, as I said before.

Goomb-omb
 * Uh, it doesn't matter? Like I said, Birdo is only referred to as she because of its appearance. Another thing, if we are gonna do the same type of thing with the Vivian article, it won't be exactly the same, as it's not the exact same situation. Let me work my hand at trying to change it to be 'like' what we did for the Vivian article. FD09
 * Exactly. If I'm right, SMSC was the first game to call her male since way back in the NES days in NA. She's male in Japan, to say the least, like Vivian. We called Vivian she, so we should do the same here.
 * 2 things. 1)FDo9, post comments at the bottom of the page. Simply put "So-and-so:" 2)I'm not the one bossing people around. I'm simply telling you that mos of us agree to use "she", which you're objecting. Some people also agree you're getting a little to upset about this, please calm down.

How is the recent edit for 'ya'll'? - FD09
 * Good. I made some slight edits to make it less confusing, though.

Birdo is never stated to be female, that's why when Birdo is officially referred to as "she", that's why I put that it is correct to refer to Birdo in that manner. All of what I put makes complete sense, and what you're changing has no explanation, and now you're just straying away from your point. - FD09
 * You said it doesn't refer to Birdo as female, it just refers to her as "she". *starts laughing* That's the funniest thing I've ever heard, FD09! We settled this already, we can re-settle it if you want.
 * Now you're not even making sense. Oh wait, no change. FD09
 * Hardy-har-har. Why don't we just delete the paragraph instead of getting in an edit war? 23:17, 12 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Sorry to interrupt, but I'm confused as to why we would refer to to Birdo as male in any case. If we are dealing with "marioverse" canon, then Birdo identifies as female and should be treated as such.  If we are dealing with Nintendo of America's official stance, then Birdo is female.  I thought we resolved this?

Goomb-omb
 * We did, untile someone got mad and threw a tantrum.
 * Yeah, you did. Also, Birdo has been stated to be male even in America. That NOA explanation had no source or reference. The paragraph explains everything, but someone keeps denying things with no explanation of logic. FD09
 * I used Blitz's compromise. If you don't like it, talk to everyone who liked the idea.

Look, it's obvious the only problem we're having here is with you. You seem to not be able to condone with the facts just because it is your personal belief that Birdo is female. I really don't know how to get it through to you, as I'm beginning to wander if you honestly don't understand. Every time I try to explain it to you, you seem to try to ignore it and focus on the fact there was a previous compromise. What you also don't get is that this does not actually intervene with the compromise. As such, there is nothing wrong with the paragraph, and you continuing the edit war is only because you want to have it your way. FD09
 * We've had more than one. We try use them, but so many users object to it that we have to start over. Also, I requested the page be protected to stop the war.
 * Once again you have ignored what I said, and you have also failed to notice the page is already protected.FD09
 * I'm not an idiot. The reason it's protected is because I requested it. Enough off-topic. I think we should remove the paragraph because all it's doing is causing an edit war.
 * Actually Daisy I agree with her too. But you haven't read any of my comments or looked at my logic. Either way, she is female, no matter what canon you use.  My only gripe now is that the second paragraph says "it is still correct to refer to him in the female gender" which doesn't really make any sense.  I don't really think that Birdo really warrants this much strife and argument either way though. Goomb-omb
 * Well said Goomb-omb.
 * You agree with her? Why is Birdo female? Where's the proof? You just said yourself Birdo's canon male. Also, it's so people know Birdo is male, but is referred to as she. If it doesn't make sense you aren't comprehending it correctly. It doesn't matter what people THINK because the FACT is that Birdo is not female, but it is ok to refer to him as she because of his appearance, it's that simple, and that's what the paragraph says. Oh, and yet again, Toadette 4evur has ignored my point, go figure. Also, just because someone agrees with you, doesn't make you right.FD09
 * Birdo has been called male in about 2-3 games. It has been referred to as a female umpteen times. Just because you think Birdo is male doesn't mean its true.
 * Birdo has not been called female though, and that's the point. If Birdo was female, Birdo would've been stated to be female, but has only been stated to be male. Nice try.FD09

One simple word: "It". Not "He" or "She", "It". :|
 * Yeah? I tried that, and this is what happened. Regardless, that would not solve the fact there is no problem with the paragraph. FD09


 * Poor Birdo. :P Goomb-omb
 * It's better than an edit war. I still think we should put something like Blitz suggested in there somewhere, though.
 * You don't say that because you care about an edit war, you say it because you want to lead away from the facts. FD09

Hey, calm down, FD. Is there not a Gender Controversy section? That's good enough, and you can expand from that. Just referring to Birdo as an "It" throughout the article with the gender information in said section is decent enough. No need to pick on other Users who don't share your opinion.
 * The point of having that paragraph was to explain why Birdo was being referred to as she throughout the article. Adding it to another section wouldn't change anything as someone *cough* would still be determined to remove/change it.

FD, you do realize that if you didn't say things like "someone *cough* would still be determined to remove/change it" you might get people to agree with you, yes? Here's the facts: Nintendo most recently refers to Birdo as, "it" in Super Smash Bros. Brawl. 11:04, 13 June 2008 (EDT)
 * So should we just call Birdo "it" then?
 * I guess we'll have to.Better than the alternatives... Goomb-omb
 * Yes, it's the latest official word. We'll have to see if they mention its gender in Super Mario Sluggers.  15:58, 13 June 2008 (EDT)
 * If all Birdos had the same gender, they'd be dying out rather fast. Don't take this matter to scientifically. Birdos are they, the SMB2 manual refers to the species. A single character was only created in sports games, similar to Koopa. The sentence written in the manual, however, applies to a single character and not a species. I think this is non-game content. My suggestion would have been using "she" for sports games and still have the gender controversity section. - 16:06, 13 June 2008 (EDT)
 * I guess we can do that.
 * Yes, let's do that. Stumpers, Mario Kart Wii is more recent than Super Smash Bros. Brawl. And Mario Kart Wii calls her a she. It's Nintendo of America's latest way of referring to her, so we should go by that. And FD09, there is no proof that Birdo is a male passing herself as a female. That's your opinion. Maybe in Japan, but we are an English-speaking wiki. 16:16, 13 June 2008 (EDT)

Uh, what? "According to the North American instruction manual of Super Mario Bros. 2," The controversity is not Japan-only. - 16:22, 13 June 2008 (EDT)
 * However, that game might have had the species and not the single character (I don't know, actually), but that part doesn't matter. What matters is, even if Birdo was portrayed as male in that game, Nintendo has chosen to change that. Mario Kart Wii is the most recent game with Birdo in it, and she is referred to as "she" in her bio. Therefore, Nintendo of America intends for Birdo to be male now. 16:29, 13 June 2008 (EDT)
 * They sure don't. That's a typo, isn't it?
 * This should go by the same policy as Bowser's Castle/Bowser's Keep. The article itself uses the most recent and most common name of Bowser's home. The Super Mario RPG section, however, uses the name that it was called in that specific game. We could do the same with genders here. Or simply keep the genders out of the SMB2 section overall, it are multiple Birdos anyway, and just have the gender section as is. - 16:33, 13 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Yes, I meant to type female. That would be fine, just don't you think that someone reading it would be like "huh? first it said "it" and now it says "she?" But it's your decision. 17:42, 13 June 2008 (EDT)
 * No it's not. Everybody's opinion counts. My concept wouldn't use "it" for the SMB2 section, but have everything in the plural though. - 17:47, 13 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Why don't we just use it for the whole article? That way it doesn't confuse people like it would if we switch from "it" to "she" to "they" to "he" etc.
 * I think it would be best when referring to Birdoes in games other than Super Mario Bros. 2, but the Birdo in THAT game, the one that prefers to be called "Birdetta" should be referred to as she, not they, because it is just the one Birdo. Goomb-omb 18:07, 13 June 2008 (EDT)
 * The problem is that there are multiple Birdos in SMB2, including differently colored sub-species. - 18:10, 13 June 2008 (EDT)
 * How about we use "they" for any section about a game that includes more than one Birdo and "it" for the rest?
 * No, I think we should say "she" (I've already said why) in the parts about where Birdo is not referred to as male. But I'm still figuring out whether SMB2 has Birdos or the Birdo.
 * I think that would be fine, since Birdo is more of a "thing" it is okay to use "it."Also, I was always under the impression that that was the same Birdo over and over again in SMB2 :/ Also, if the Birdo you think is male is the one that is called "Birdetta", that too should be referred to as she.Goomb-omb 18:17, 13 June 2008 (EDT)
 * We don't know if it is really boy or girl though, CrystalYoshi, and if we use "it", no-one can say "Birdo is a boy, take out the 'shes'", or vice-versa. Also, SMB2 has "Birdos", there are about 16 different Birdos in the game, I highly doubt you'd same Birdo over and over...

Cobold, I think you're going off in the wrong direction. This article is about the Birdo, so no, we're not saying that all Birdos are female, male, or whatever. Any content about multiple Birdos should be on Birdo (species). This article is a little out of date, unfortunately, so maybe that's where the confusion was, I dunno. Super Mario Bros. 2 USA did indeed have a single Birdo. As you all know, the instruction booklet refers to a single Birdo, right? So, unless there's some obscure thing I missed where they say, "At the end of the first level of each world you will fight a Birdo," then there's only one Birdo in the game. The remake further clarifies this, since Birdo is given a voice actress. When you first meet the green Birdo, she says, "I'm ready for you this time!" So, in other words there's no reason to use they. Just, "he," "she," or "it." Regardless of which pronoun Nintendo of America decided to use, we do still have that official statement from Brawl that calls Birdo (or her species, it's not clear) "gender indeterminate." The Webster definition of indeterminant is, "not precisely determined or established; not fixed or known in advance" So, yes, it probably has a gender, but there's no real way to tell. 18:27, 13 June 2008 (EDT)
 * I doubt you'd fight the same Birdo about 16 times in SMB2.
 * This subject is much more complicated than I thought. - 18:33, 13 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Why do you find that hard to believe? Bowser falls in lava again and again, you wouldn't say there were more than one Bowsers. I always got the distinct impression that there was only one Birdo in existence, until the sports games, etc. So don't you all think that THAT particular Birdo was a 'she'? It feels like we are going in circles here :/18:35, 13 June 2008 (EDT)
 * You're not listening to me! Birdo is called "she" in her MKWii bio, and that's after SSBB! So we should say she. Maybe for the SMB2 part, we could say, "Birdo might have been male in this game." Then we could use "he" or "it". But in the rest of the article, we should say she. 18:36, 13 June 2008 (EDT)
 * By that logic, the European version of Brawl, which is yet to be released, should also use "she". Which it won't, I bet on that. - 18:41, 13 June 2008 (EDT)
 * We actually do consider False Bowsers separately. - 18:37, 13 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Plus, there are different colored Birdos. Don't get me wrong, I think Birdo is female, but I think "it" is the best solution.
 * Yoshis change color in SMW. Also, I didn't mean false bowsers, I meant at the as the very last boss, when he is finally defeated in games like SMB or SMB3.  If Nintendo has most recently called Birdo she, then that's what Birdo is. Regardless, the Birdo in question, from SMB2, identifies as female, and should be called she.Goomb-omb 18:42, 13 June 2008 (EDT)
 * But those are considered different Yoshis. Like Cobold said, the PAL version of Brawl will likely call Birdo it, making that game the most recent English game.

Here's a deal: Use "it" and be happy with it. ;) - 18:45, 13 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Haven't I been suggesting that for the last half hour? :P
 * I vaguely remember. =P - 18:48, 13 June 2008 (EDT)
 * I just hope that someone who hasn't read this doesn't bring this up again in a couple months (along with vivian) :x Now I'm confused about the whole Yoshi color thing....:XGoomb-omb 19:01, 13 June 2008 (EDT)
 * If they do we should just tell them we've settled this...umpteen times...

I can't help but think that this whole argument wouldn't have happened if I didn't even mention Birdo on Vivian's talk page lol. Why is it that whatever I do is followed by controversy? First Baby Daisy and now this... Moonshine
 * It's not your fault. This page had very much potential for a controversity before you mentioned it. It would have happened sooner or later. The general editing policy of practically everyone here is that "you are wrong and I am right". Problematic, but I don't see that easily changing without us having either tiresome debates or heated proposals. ;) - 19:35, 13 June 2008 (EDT)

Okay, so are we all agreed on "it" or should we take this to the proposals? 01:36, 14 June 2008 (EDT)
 * I'd actually rather have a proposal, because that would settle it once and for all. 08:56, 14 June 2008 (EDT)
 * The majority agrees on calling Birdo "it".
 * I honestly don't think that that makes much sense. Doesn't it seem like Nintendo intends for Birdo to be female? If you really just want to say it for someone who Nintendo has said was a she, go ahead. But: if another game comes up where Birdo is referred to as female, we should reconsider. Oh, and I'm putting it in the gender controversy section that Birdo was referred to as female in MKWii.  14:10, 17 June 2008 (EDT)
 * I'd like for her to be "she" as well, but if we do that, we'll get a bunch of complaints from people who think Birdo is a boy. We don't want that.
 * Do whatever you want. But I'd like to note that many of Birdo's bios, not jsut her MKWii one, call her she. But I really don't care anymore. 19:59, 17 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Sorry, I know we're done with this, but just to back up my point that there is just one Birdo in SMB2, when you place Super Mario Advance and defeat Birdo, she says "I'll remember thiiiiis!" And as for the fact of Birdo changing color, the part of super mario world I was referring to is the stage where you have Yoshi and jump into the pair of flying wings, and your Yoshi remains as a Blue Yoshi even after the level is completed.

Sorry to beat a dead horse, I just wanted to get that out there :P Goomb-omb 13:10, 19 June 2008 (EDT)

Hey!, Captain Rainbow???,ridiculous!! is a lie!
 * Go here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yEhvG4jYoQ, it's the trailer for Captain Rainbow which clearly shows Birdo (with a male voice I might add). Stop deleting factual information and replacing it with fan speculation. UrsulaBoi 17:58, 12 July 2008 (EDT)

"That bug is not Birdo!, Just look! That does not resemble Birdo, or has the same size as it or anything! Clearly it is a cheap copy and stupid! A Birdo does not have a human voice! There is a Birdo in Super Mario Advance that talks however that Birdo has a female voice! Understand?"

If I may? Sorry to be quick, on my Wii. Does the controversy matter? If Birdo claims femininity, call Birdo a girl simply to run things smooth. I mean, if you identified as a girl but weren't, you'd want to not be called a boy. Follow the silver rule (treat others as they wish to be treated, foolishly second to "as you wish..." but whatever) and the controversy dissolves. Shrikeswind

Birdo in Captain Rainbow
Birdo seems to have a quite big role in the upcoming obscure crossover Wii game Captain Rainbow (see here). Considering it's by Nintendo, should we put the information on this article or at Game Sightings? - 17:45, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Who is Captain Rainbow anyway? And why would Birdo be in some other game like that? 08:31, 26 July 2008 (EDT)

Birdo's information should probably go on her page, assuming she has a decent role in the game. -- Booster
 * Even if this is just a cameo, per that recent cameo appearances proposal, this information should be in both places. 10:37, 26 July 2008 (EDT)

Maybe it's now too early to decide if this game needs an article. We don't know enough about the importance of Mario characters in Captain Rainbow so far. All three present trailers with English subtitles can be watched here:
 * 1st trailer – Birdo about the main character Nick/Captain Rainbow
 * 2nd trailer – Little Mac about Birdo's part (a Piranha Plant is briefly seen as well)
 * 2nd trailer – Translation of Birdo's lines
 * 3rd trailer – Takamaru about Little Mac's part

--Grandy02 10:44, 26 July 2008 (EDT)

We have an articles upon articles about Super Smash Bros... I suppose we should do the same for Captain Rainbow? I wouldn't consider it because it is a crossover title that is not in the Mario series, but I suppose for consistency we'll have to, because this Wiki is not about to call for the deletion of the SSB articles. 10:50, 26 July 2008 (EDT)
 * If you think it is needed now, I'd support a single article for Captain Rainbow, but currently no articles for the Mario-unrelated characters, for reasons I told. For example, there is an article on SSX on Tour, but no links for the Mario-unrelated stuff, because the game isn't Mario-influenced enough. Smash Bros. seris are full of major Mario references, that's a different thing. --Grandy02 10:56, 26 July 2008 (EDT)
 * I agree with that. We could get an article considering we have Captain N: The Game Master, in that style. - 12:11, 26 July 2008 (EDT)

We can probably do something similar to what the Zelda Wiki did for Soul Calibur II. -- Booster

Where is the bar for "Mario-influenced enough"? We consider Smash Bros. because it is "full of Mario references" But that still doesn't mean we have to cover all of the Zelda, Metroid, Sonic, MGS, etc. content in the game. I know of an Animal Crossing, a Sonic, and a Metroid Wiki that only cover Animal Crossing, Sonic, and Metroid references, leaving the Mario references at the door. We're alone in the fact that we cover everything (and that is fine; I'm not complaining). So, then we have Tetris DS, and we covered everything about that title because it contained numerous Mario references. Then we have SSX and NBA Street, which we don't cover. The big difference, looking objectively, between these titles is that Smash and TDS are Nintendo published titles. SSX and NBA aren't. But then we bring in Idakdi (or whatever) Street DS and Mario & Sonic. We cover all of it even though it wasn't published by Nintendo. So, where's the line here? The line is not defined by the Mario series crossing over with a single series (Smash crossed over with everyone), it's not a first party/third party arguement. As far as I can figure, it's opinion that we're looking at. We're not covering the Legend of Zelda cartoon, Captain N, and now it looks like we're not covering Rainbow. Two "alternate canon" sources, which the majority of the Wiki ignores, and an obscure title that no one feels attached to. We seriously need some consistency here. Yet, I have to agree. Like each of the Smash Bros games, Captain Rainbow only deserves one article listing the Mario references. 14:08, 26 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Captain Rainbow will be published by Nintendo. Would you want to cover it now? I don't think we should cover the game, the article only should be about the Mario influence. Because the game, unlike the other cross-over games, has a story, we have to go a little more in-depth in this case though, just as we did with Captain N. - 11:35, 27 July 2008 (EDT)

Isn't Birdo a Guy?
It says that Birdo is a guy in the SMB2 Instruction Manual.
 * There's a big debate behind Birdo's gender. In Japan, Birdo is named Catherine, and is indeed male.  The translation of the instruction manual was taken directly, but Nintendo of America seems to shy away on Birdo being a transvestite.  In some recent games, they've referred to Birdo as a female (Mario & Luigi called her "dame," and a few of the sports games, not to mention SMB2 for Advance), but other games use "gender indeterminate" or stick with the male version (Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Super Mario Strikers Charged, Captain Rainbow).  So really, it could go either way... America needs to sort it out and either confirm that Birdo is "female" (which wouldn't make sense anyway since the original Japanese character is male), or keep it a male, which would make it a very unique character in the world of video games (the first transvestite Nintendo character).  UrsulaBoi 19:24, 31 August 2008 (EDT)
 * TMK has recently added a work-in-progress Birdo special. --Grandy02 14:57, 3 September 2008 (EDT)
 * This is a really easy solution, people - just use "it" like in Super Smash Bros. Brawl. LinkTheLefty 16:14, 12 November 2008 (EST)

Trivia
I wonder about the following trivia a user some time ago added: So I looked up Wikipedia. But both in the main article for the anime and in the character list, the word "egg" is nowhere mentioned. So this trivia needs further explanation, if it is true. But if it is just an egg with pink dots, it could be coincidence. --Grandy02 11:07, 4 September 2008 (EDT)
 * In the anime: School Rumble, a teacher have a Birdo Egg.
 * Especially because Birdo eggs are also traditional white eggs except in MK:DD. Unless School Rumble has a history of making small references to video games and such, I'd say we should remove this.  14:50, 4 September 2008 (EDT)

WHO is Birdo's Creator?
I tried using google but it couldn't even find the answer to that question. You know, it would be Very Convenient to update every Character's Page to list it's Creator. Kinda like this:

--Arima 22:39, 4 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Mario
 * "Picture"
 * Full Name: Mario Mario
 * First Appearance: Donkey Kong (1981)
 * Species: Human
 * Affiliation(s): Mushroom Kingdom
 * Latest Appearance: Mario Super Sluggers
 * ++Created by: Shigeru Miyamoto++


 * As far as I know your best bet would be to look up the Super Mario Bros. 2 credits and find character design. 00:21, 5 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Youtube may also have a video of the end credits. 00:23, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

Oh! I know!! her creator is: Shigeru Miyamoto, right?
 * It's very possible, but game credits would say for sure. 00:50, 24 September 2008 (EDT)

Featured Article!
Her article is perrrfect!!! can be a featured article?
 * Currently there is an improvement tag (the trivia section is too long). As long as it has this tag, it cannot be nominated. 08:35, 18 September 2008 (EDT)

Ok!, what do you think, now?, it is short and better yeah?
 * Definitely better! I think it's short enough to be featured now, but I can't say for sure I won't vote against it.  Don't worry, though, I promise to make my comments legitimate and work on them myself. ;3  23:40, 18 September 2008 (EDT)

Ok!

Artwork
I've found her artwork from the menu: Captain Selection (Mario Super Sluggers) so.. can I put the pic?


 * Of course! 12:14, 26 September 2008 (EDT)


 * You gotta be kidding me, Birdoshi! Are you referring to her "main" art for the captain selection, or the art we see on the loading screen before the game begins? - M. C. - "Mario Gals" Fan! User Page | Talk Page 12:45, 26 September 2008 (EDT)

The pictures!
The first one is edited...The other ones look fine tho.

Oh.... ;_;     .... T_T
 * Hey but look on the bright side, those other 3 images are very useful :)

Ok!

Grey Birdos?
On the page that shows the levels in SMB2, A Grey Birdo is labled as an enemy. As far as I know, there never was a grey one. Is there any proof of any?

Bye Bye dear Birdo!!!!! n_n

Birdo the Character?
I don't think we can say all of these appearances featured the same exact Birdo. Instead we can say that there is a prominent pink Birdo in the Mario series just as there is a prominent Green Yoshi, although the actual Birdo or Yoshi could be different in different appearances. --
 * I think a disclaimer statement to that effect would be fine. Go for it.  18:38, 22 December 2008 (EST)

I found an image of birdo at mario and sonic at the olympic games. i'm a noob -_- so please don't say THIS IS THE WRONG FORUM D:< [IMG]http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j82/Mop_it_up/Official%20Nintendo%20Artwork/BirdoSkate.png[/IMG]


 * The picture is a fake! It is not real, and all the characters are all pretty much confirmed! And, I think it is a wrong forum.

"It" is not correct
I hate to bring this issue up yet again, but I did some research in response to the similar gender/pronoun trouble brought up on Talk:Vivian, and I found that calling a transsexual (like Birdo) "it" is actually considered derogatory. According to the Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation, transsexuals should be identified with the gender they identifies themselves with (see here), so Birdo should be called a "she" in the article. Super Smash Bros. Brawl may call Birdo an "it", but it's the exception, not the rule. - 19:38, 24 December 2008 (EST)


 * Yes exactly. Birdo (or at least some of these Birdos) may be "biologically" male, but their gender is female, so "she" would be the proper pronoun. --

Super Mario Advance ^,^
Well, this information, must be in this page: http://www.mariowiki.com/Birdo_%28species%29 , right?

Changing colors?
How is it possible that Birdo appears with different colors and abilities in each level? Is it a special power of hers, or are the Birdos in the game just generic Birdos?
 * Well, Yoshi changes colours and abilities depending on what he eats (or encounters, as is the case with the wings that turn him blue in Super Mario World), so it's possible Birdo can do the same. However, that's just speculation, so it can't be included in the article. As for whether or not they're all one Birdo or multiple Birdos, I'm not sure if that's ever been set in stone, to be honest; but I could be mistaken. - 22:50, 11 March 2009 (EDT)

I think it might be possible that Birdo does possess the same ability, but, because it's never been stated, this is just speculation. I think the Super Mario Bros. 2 manual was labeling Birdo herself as an individual Birdo that appears, and wasn't trying to say that each Birdo is Birdo.

Is Birdo evil, or does she happen to attack because of circumstance, like Petey Piranha?
It never really said that Birdo is evil, and she's been portrayed as a nice and peacful creature. She never seems to attack the Mario Bros. unless there's special circumstances, such as them attacking Popple, and Wart enslaving the creatures of Subcon and forcing them to work for him (which might include Birdo). In Mario RPG, she attacks Mario because she "wanted to play" and "didn't want to let Mario go", and she was raised as a weapon. (although she didn't turn out like one)

I think she's peaceful n,n


 * In Mario & Luigi, he helps Peach out, but then later recognizes Mario and Luigi and seems to have a vendetta against them. This is her last appearance in a storyline-based game so far. I'm guessing it's situational, and Peach? Well, she's not one to make a lot of enemies anyway. Best to think of Birdo as a "neutral" character, like Wario (for the most part). LinkTheLefty 12:33, 28 August 2009 (EDT)

Birdo's Gender
I Am so confused about birdos gender.I know that it was origionally known as a guy. I still believe birdos a girl but I'm wondering when this problem with birdos gender will end. I just hope the problem ends soon.

Don't worry she's female :P


 * Male in Japan. Whatever you want it to be outside of Japan. There, hope that satisfies everybody. LinkTheLefty 12:29, 28 August 2009 (EDT)

Birdo,Birdo,Birdo. (it is repetitive). She is a good idea.

Catherine or Katherine
I know.. that's her japanese name ,but what's the correct name? ','

The Japanese romaji says "Kyasarin". It can technically translate either way, as the pronunciation should be identical to what they're going for. However, if you really want to know which one is the "correct" one, Catherine seems to be the preferred English spelling as seen in Japanese materials. For example, the Mario Kart: Double Dash website (http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ngc/gm4j/02.html) LinkTheLefty 12:50, 28 August 2009 (EDT)

The SMB2 image?
I thought only the pink variation was seen in the solo artwork. Someone recolor it? LinkTheLefty 12:51, 28 August 2009 (EDT)
 * I have never seen that artwork of Birdo in orange (Birdo is orange on the covers of Doki Doki Panic and Super Mario USA, but the artwork looks different there). I asked the same question before, but nobody really seemed to know why. --Grandy02 09:51, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Gender?
Shouldn't it be "sex"? There really is no confusion on her gender, she identifies as female. Gender and sex are two different things NinjaCupcake 14:38, 5 October 2009 (EDT)
 * Good point. The most appropriate title would be "Gender and Sex", since the section deals with both aspects of Birdo's sexuality, but my guess is that we've shied away from a "sex"-containing header because of the obvious homonym trouble. It's better to simply go with plain "Gender" and avoid all the complaints / edit wars as people try and change it to something less eye-grabbing. - 23:37, 6 October 2009 (EDT)

Mario Kart: Double Dash!! Manual
I (finally) found my Double Dash!! manual and here's what it has to say for Birdo: "女の子に見えるけど、　実は…？" This literally translates to "Looks like a girl, but actually...?" This doesn't come out and say clearly that Birdo is male, but implies so. What to make of it? --
 * As far as I know, Birdo is simply considered to be a male in Japan; the fact that the manual writers for Mario Kart: Double Dash!! decided to be coy about it doesn't change anything. (For the record, the NA English version reads "Birdo's decked out in her favorite bow and ready to race!") - 22:48, 9 January 2010 (EST)
 * Yeah, I realize it doesn't change anything. Which is why I asked what to make of it. It was just an implication that Birdo's gender is, at the very least, unspecified in Japan. --

SSBB
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2xGWwhVsGE You can use Birdo
 * Fake.

Corrections that need to be made
Hi, I noticed several errors in the article, but since the article is locked right now, I cannot fix them myself. In the section Mario Party series, the game Mario Party Fushigi no Korokoro Catcher needs to be italicized (it appears in the last sentence of that section). Also, in the introduction of the article, the following sentence needs to be re-written as it is a run-on:
 * The central Birdo character (that appears in the Mario Kart series, the Mario Party series and the various sports titles) wears a red bow, a diamond ring, she also has some sort of relationship with Yoshi as they are the automatic partners in various competitions, and is a good friend of Daisy, Toadette, and Petey Piranha.

Also, I think it would make sense to wikilink Super Mario Advance in the section Super Mario Bros. 2. It is located in the second paragraph. Thanks, ~ Super  Hamster  Talk Contribs 17:56, 12 April 2010 (EDT)

Also found this sentence, which will also need to be rephrased. It's the last sentence of the section Physical Description:
 * In the Japanese commercial for Super Mario All-Stars, she wears a very expensive black dress, adorned with a black necklace with many pearls, also she wears a white stole, and a very elegant fan.

~ Super  Hamster  Talk Contribs 18:12, 12 April 2010 (EDT)

Also, in the second sentence of the section Powers and Abilities, the following sentence is missing a subject, in which I've inserted a blank space:
 * Birdo has also shown the ability to utilize her snout in a manner similar to a vacuum, using her _____ to suck things closer to herself or even swallow them...

If an admin wants to unlock the page, I'd be happy to make these edits, along with anything else I come across. ~ Super  Hamster  Talk Contribs 18:18, 12 April 2010 (EDT)


 * Unlock the page, at least for a bit. Let this new user work! =) Culex 18:51, 12 April 2010 (EDT)


 * Great, thanks! Oh, wait, I thought you unlocked it :P But thanks for the support ;) ~ Super  Hamster  Talk Contribs 18:53, 12 April 2010 (EDT)

I've made the changes since I got autoconfirmed today. ~ Super  Hamster  Talk Contribs 15:15, 19 April 2010 (EDT)
 * Thanks for being patient about the autoconfirmation and fixing up the article! Protecting pages is only meant to dissuade vandals (and this is a prime target, so it's a necessity here, I'm afraid), so I'm glad productive newcomers aren't driven away as well. - 19:39, 24 April 2010 (EDT)

Featured Article
What information is needed to make this a featured article?

It would be easier to nominate it first people don't comment on these talk pages very often but i think it has all the info needed to be nominate personally