MarioWiki:Proposals

Writing guidelines
None at the moment.

New features
None at the moment.

Remove the 15th infraction for why a reminder can be issued (changing American spellings and grammar conventions to British standards)
Please see Warning policy before voting.

Ok, now there are multiple reasons why someone can get a reminder, but this particular infraction stands out to me because not everyone who has English as their first language uses American English. People all over the world edit the MarioWiki, and that includes people from the United Kingdom who use British English as their primary language. I feel like a reminder is too harsh for this, especially since changing American spelling and grammar conventions to British standards does not negatively affect the article in the long run. If the article is looked at from a bigger point of view, '''it's still readable and not super difficult to follow through. All that was changed was a single word that can still be understood by many people.'''

As for inserting speculation, unnecessary information or trivia, false information, into an article or vandalizing it, I understand how those offenses are warnable to varying degrees. But a good faith user should not be issued a reminder solely because they barely changed a word (simply by adding a letter to it) and left its meaning the same. Changing a word for its American spelling to its British spelling does not damage or degrade the quality of an article, so why should it be a warnable offense to begin with? I have seen only one user get warned (and blocked) for this while browsing this wiki, but the fact that users can get a reminder for this infraction surprises me, and I'm surprised this infraction was not brought up sooner.

In case users do not want to remove the infraction but also do not want to keep the wording for the infraction as is, I've added an option to modify the infraction without entirely removing it. So there are three four ways this proposal can go:

1. Support (and remove the infraction): This option removes the "changing American spellings and grammar conventions to British standards" from the list of infractions that deserve a reminder template.

2. Modify the infraction without entirely removing it: This option keeps the infraction while allowing it to be modified to make it more clear. If you feel that this infraction should stay, then making a few productive changes to it won't hurt.

3. Oppose, but move the infraction under the "Failure to follow the writing guidelines" infraction: This option will not modify the wording of the infraction, but instead of having the infraction be by itself, it will be placed under the "failure to follow the writing guidelines" infraction and indented.

4. Oppose (and keep the infraction entirely as is): This option does what it says on the tin. The infraction will be left as is, and good-faith users from the United Kingdom have something to dwell about (apparently because American spellings are preferred to be used on articles over their spellings). I suggest we do not choose this option.

Proposer: Deadline: August 22, 2022, 23:59 GMT

Support (and remove the infraction)

 * 1) My preferred choice.
 * 2) Per all.


 * 1) It's an academically established spelling convention that many people utilise in their daily conversation. I don't see a practical need to enforcing such restrictive measures on one's regional spelling just because it doesn't perfectly line up with the writing attuned to the wiki's general public. I like standards myself, using American spelling in the main space, but I'd be up for repurposing this rule as a recommendation, and not an obligation, for particular spelling.


 * 1) I think this is the step in the right direction. Though there is a difference between warning someone over using the alternative variants of English and warning someone because they decided to change every word in an article from (for example) American English to British English for seemingly no reason.


 * 1) I always found this clause a bit silly. Literally nobody in the anglosphere would be confused by spelling color as colour or favor as favour, and it's a bit silly to issue reminders to english speakers who don't use the American English style. Also, did we not agree to being okay with British spelling before?


 * 1) per all.

Modify the infraction without entirely removing it

 * 1) My second choice.

Oppose (and keep the infraction entirely as is)

 * 1) Per Waluigi Time in the comments (although I agree a reminder template is a bit harsh for a good-faith editor doing this without knowing it's a rule, I'm pretty sure an informal reminder would be issued in that situation anyway).
 * 2) I'm opposing this proposal mainly due to the reasoning behind it. Like Waluigi Time and Bazooka Mario said, removing this as a specific reason for an infraction does not change the fact that changing American spellings to British ones is against the manual of style, so this proposal passing will not actually allow it, since people can still be reminded and warned for not following the manual of style. Your actual goal here seems to be straight up changing site policy to allow people to make these spelling changes to their heart's content, which is a terrible idea. If some UK editor decides they prefers British spellings and changes them on an article, what's to prevent some US editor who believes otherwise from changing them back? And if edit wars brew over this, how do we decide who's right and who's wrong if we don't have a preference? If the answer is "first come, first serve", the worst solution ever to anything on a wiki, then no thanks.
 * 3) Per 7feetunder, this will require tweaking the manual of style and possibly lead to more edit warring. I wouldn't give anyone a reminder about this straight away, only an informal talk page message.
 * 4) Per all.
 * 5) Per 7feetunder. This is definitely a situation where I prefer informal reminders since it is completely understandable for someone to make this mistake without realizing it is a rule, but it is still against the manual of style. I oppose changing this part of the manual of style, as not having standardized spelling would ultimately lead to unneeded problems. I definitely do think immediately giving official reminders over this is too harsh, though.
 * 6) per all.
 * 7) Per 2.1336metersunder.
 * 8) Per all.
 * 9) changed decision after 213.36centimetersunder's comments.
 * 10) Per all. An informal reminder on a userpage with a link to the explanation in the Manual of Style is enough to quell this issue while maintaining standardized spelling.

Comments
It is stated on the Manual of Style that the reason American spelling and names are prioritised is because the majority of readers come from North America. Just pointing out that I am from the UK though. 20:45, August 15, 2022 (EDT)

I'm not sure exactly what this proposal is trying to accomplish. If all this is doing it as removing it specifically from the warning policy... well, whether it's listed there or not, if someone repeatedly ignores the Manual of Style, we're going to have to do something, including potentially issuing reminders/warnings (this is already covered under "Failure to follow the writing guidelines" immediately below, which makes it a bit redundant actually). To achieve the proposal's desired effect of not giving out reminders for this, it would probably have to be removed from the Manual of Style entirely, which I wouldn't support. -- 21:32, August 15, 2022 (EDT)
 * I feel the whole changing American to British spelling falls under a very general infraction of not following writing guidelines, and I think it doesn't need to be specified in the warning policy. It's like having a warning dedicated to people capitalizing all words in a category or article subsection. Yeah technically they shouldn't be doing it, but I don't think this guidelines is so important and needs to be clear and explicit to the point it has to be mentioned in the warning policy. 20:32, August 17, 2022 (EDT)
 * @Waluigi Time and Bazooka Mario: Would it be ok if we moved the infraction under the "Failure to follow the writing guidelines" infraction? I've added it as a possible option in case this infraction ends up staying-it looks awkward for it to stand by itself, because it's a writing guideline, right? Mari0fan100 (talk) 22:42, August 18, 2022 (EDT)

@Somethingone: It was proposed, but then the proposer themselves cancelled it. Although we did not technically agree to being okay with British spelling before, this proposal gives an opportunity to make it happen. Mari0fan100 (talk) 22:15, August 15, 2022 (EDT)

I want to point out one thing: choosing between British English and American English is not just a matter of spelling of words. There are still elements, such as courses or species, that are named differently in British English compared to American English. The kart, tires and courses in the Mario Kart games, including Mario Kart 8, are the most prominent example, but there's also the case of the naming of all the Magikoopas as Kamek in British English, reflecting their Japanese name. Even many Mario & Luigi games were named differently in British English. Therefore the choice of one English or the other has a lot of implications, and once we decided to stay with the American English, you can expect the rest of the page to follow through to keep consistency, as a page written in British English about a subject that has a different name in British English would look rather confusing to the readers.--Mister Wu (talk) 08:50, August 19, 2022 (EDT)

@Koopa con Carne, @Spectrogram, @Somethingone: I hope I'm not coming off as rude here, but are there any reasons you suddenly decided to change your mind and completely countered this proposal? I'm sure you had great reasons, but none of the edits give a reasonable justification, nor did you give off reasons to change your votes. It seems peculiar that all of you were in massive support of this whole thing and then decided to change your minds for no given reason completely. Wikiboy10 (talk) 08:51, August 19, 2022 (EDT)
 * I know I'm not one of the people being addressed here, but it is possible for people to be convinced to change their minds if a counterargument gets brought up, which it did, and all of them cited that as their new vote reasoning. 10:03, August 19, 2022 (EDT)
 * People can veer to a different point of view if presented with good enough arguments to support it. 7feetunder had the foresight to point out some realistic consequences of this proposal’s passing, and I simply found myself agreeing with him more than with the proposal or my previous statement. 10:14, August 19, 2022 (EDT)

@TheFlameChomp: The points you brought motivated me to add the "Oppose, but move the infraction under the "Failure to follow the writing guidelines" infraction" as a possible option. I feel that if this infraction should stay, then it shouldn't be a standalone. Rather, I suggest that the infraction should be seen as an example of a "failure to follow the writing guidelines" and (potentially) have it moved under there. Mari0fan100 (talk) 17:26, August 19, 2022 (EDT)
 * Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it might be too late to add a new option. Per rule 14, proposals can only be rewritten (which includes adding new options) within the first three days of its creation. You created this proposal at 00:15 on August 16, and you added the new option at 02:40 on August 19 - 2 hours and 25 minutes after three days had passed. 17:42, August 19, 2022 (EDT)

While we're on the subject of this guideline, it has been misconstrued to mean "this is an American wiki", which is untrue; much like Wikipedia, it's an international wiki that just happens to have its servers in the US. RickTommy (talk) 11:16, August 21, 2022 (EDT)

Change "NS" to "Switch"
I saw that the official Nintendo website officially has Nintendo Switch abbreviated "Switch". I wonder if the abbreviation "NS" is an error? I'm going to make a proposal for the change just in case the official Nintendo website is right (which are most cases is).


 * All files with "NS" on their names should be renamed to have "NS" be replaced with "Switch".
 * Similarly, all files with "LANS" on their names should be renamed to have "LANS" be replaced with "LA Switch".
 * The template "" should be renamed " ".
 * The, , , and templates should all have the word "NS" replaced with "Switch".
 * The template should have the game system code "NS" replaced with "Switch".
 * The template should have have the codes "ns" and "nsdl" replaced by "switch" and "switchdl", respectively.
 * The template should have have the codes "nspro", "nsgcn", "nsnes", "nssnes", and "nsn64" replaced by "switchpro", "switchgcn", "switchnes", "switchsnes", and "switchn64", respectively.

Proposer: Deadline: August 26, 2022, 19:51 GMT

Support

 * 1) Per proposal
 * 2) I believe "Switch" is better. Though there probably should be another proposal dealing with this naming anarchy. GameCube's template is called "GCN" while Wii U's "Wii U", Game & Watch is "Game & Watch".
 * 3) easier to understand in my opinion, people who aren't familiar with it being referred to as "NS" will have to spend time trying to find what the actual code is, basically, its less specific and more simple, its just the name rather than an abbreviation, so its easier to understand.

Comments
The inner data of Mario Kart 8 Deluxe Booster Course Pass refer their courses with the abbreviation "nsw" (Nintendo Switch) as the platform code, as noted here. Probably not the most accurate thing because some of the abbreviations are only used for the Japanese versions of Mario Kart, and then there's also just "u" for the original Wii U courses, but "nsw" is one of the few official abbreviations we got for the Nintendo Switch regardless, so that's some food for thought. Arend (talk) 07:15, August 20, 2022 (EDT)

Can there be an option to do this without having to rename every file that uses the abbreviation? That feels excessive to me. -- 13:04, August 21, 2022 (EDT)

I agree with Waluigi Time. I'd support this proposal if it didn't suggest renaming every single file with the "NS" abbreviation. Renaming the templates is easy, but searching for and adjusting every filename is far more trouble than it's worth. 17:30, August 21, 2022 (EDT)

Merge unrelated to Mario objects and items in the Smash Bros. series
Good evening!

Smash Bros. series features plenty of items and objects. Most of these objects have nothing to do with Mario, and it honestly feels like reading Zelda Wiki while browsing through these wonderful articles, considering the actual amount of Mario-related objects and items is really small. Even though most of them really do not fit into Mario Wiki, there is a sizable opposition to outright removing them, which is understandable. I propose we merge (not remove!) items and objects from the Smash Bros. series that have otherwise nothing to do with Mario into two list articles: and. They really feel out of place, especially after previous cut-cut-cut [https://www.mariowiki.com/MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/51#Smash_Bros._Articles:_What_Stays_and_What_Goes? proposals] have passed.

Q: Why don't we merge them into list articles for each game (such as "List of Super Smash Bros. Ultimate objects")?

A: As it turned out, the Smash Bros. series doesn't have that many objects that are exclusive to one game: most of them recur from one game to the other, it would just be repetition in most cases.

I've also compiled a list of affected articles by this proposal, from which I've also removed several gray area entries that somewhat relate to the Mario series one way or the other. The excluded entries (example: Party Ball (item)) can always be dealt with individually at a later date, as I believe they fall out of the scale of this proposal and what it's trying to achieve. Note that I do not consider an item changing color to red if Mario holds it a good justification to keep an article. This proposal also does not target the remaining enemy articles, most of which were merged a long time ago.


 * [!] If you disagree with an entry in List M for whatever reason, leave a comment in the "Comments" section and I'll remove it from the list.

If this proposal passes, the following changes will be implemented:
 * All items and objects that lack connections to the Mario series will be merged into two list articles
 * If a connection is found or introduced to a Mario universe, the page can always be easily reinstated
 * Several seemingly unrelated to Mario gray area objects and items pages are intentionally excluded from the List M
 * Merging the pages shouldn't erase information either

List M
It may seem like a lot, but it really isn't.


 * Flipper (Balloon Fight)
 * Orange cube
 * Master Ball
 * Sandbag
 * Target
 * Back Shield
 * Beam Sword
 * Banana Gun
 * Arwing
 * Beastball
 * Beetle (item)
 * Black Hole (item)
 * Blast Box
 * Bunny Hood
 * Bomber
 * Bombchu
 * Capsule (Super Smash Bros. series)
 * Cucco (wasnt merged with Smash Run enemies previously only because it's an item)
 * Fairy Bottle
 * Pellet
 * Falcon Flyer
 * Drill (item)
 * Dragoon
 * Deku Nut
 * Death's Scythe
 * Daybreak
 * Fake Smash Ball
 * Franklin Badge
 * Gooey Bomb
 * Gust Bellows
 * Killing Edge
 * Killer Eye
 * Home-Run Bat
 * Hocotate Ship
 * Heart Container
 * Healing Sprout
 * Healing Field
 * Pitfall
 * Mr. Saturn
 * Ore Club
 * Motion-Sensor Bomb
 * Maxim Tomato
 * Master Ball
 * Lip's Stick (suggested to also be included in the list by User:7feetunder. Add a comment if you disagree with its inclusion)
 * Pok%C3%A9 Ball
 * Ramblin' Evil Mushroom
 * Rage Blaster
 * Ray Gun
 * Rolling Crate (even Smash Wiki has crates merged. We don't)
 * Rocket Belt
 * Screw Attack
 * Smash Ball
 * Special Flag
 * Smoke Ball
 * Subspace Bomb
 * Food
 * Steel Diver
 * X Bomb
 * Warp Star
 * Timer (item)
 * Superspicy Curry
 * Smash Skiff
 * Smash Coin
 * Pleiades (even Smash Bros. wiki has it merged, it serves ZERO in-game functionality, no proposal should even be needed to have it merged.)
 * Parasol (as suggested by User:Ray Trace, it could redirect to Peach's Parasol)
 * Cloaking Device
 * Fan (Super Smash Bros. series)
 * Smart Bomb
 * Team Healer
 * Cracker Launcher
 * Stock Ball
 * Trophy Stand
 * Staff (Kid Icarus)

Notable excluded entries
These pages will remain untouched if the proposal passes. Note that this isn't a full list, just the more notable pages:


 * Cargo
 * Star Rod (Kirby)
 * Sticker (Super Smash Bros. Brawl)

That's about it. As I said above, if you disagree with a certain entry, I can exclude it from the list, there's always a good chance I've missed something.

Proposer: Deadline: August 26, 2022, 23:59 GMT

Merge the List M entries

 * 1) Mario Wiki
 * 2) As someone who has always been pro-trimming in regards to Smash coverage, per proposal.
 * 3) Ceterum autem censeo Smash Bros esse delenda
 * 4) Per proposal.
 * 5) Per proposal.
 * 6) Per proposal, I am definitely supportive of trimming more non-Mario Smash coverage.
 * 7) I honestly prefer this list idea over any other idea, as not only does it help cut down on our Smash bloat but it also helps us preserve the information at the same time.
 * 8) I'm all for removing tenuously-related Smash articles. Per proposal.
 * 9) Per proposal.

Comments
Why is Lip's Stick excluded? AFAIK its only relation to Mario is that it was in a game that became a Mario game; it doesn't actually have anything to do with Mario. It's not like we have an article on Lip, and even our article on Panel de Pon itself was merged with Tetris Attack via proposal. 17:06, August 19, 2022 (EDT)
 * I've included it on the list along with a few other cameo-only items and objects appearances. Have a look and reply if you disagree with some new entries, I still have two days to edit the list. Spectrogram (talk) 11:30, August 20, 2022 (EDT)

Parasol should have honestly been reworked in the first place, so in case of a move to a redirect, the page should probably redirect to Peach's Parasol. 17:38, August 19, 2022 (EDT)

Question: how would the list articles look like? Would it be a standard table-with-text list or would we make it like the Subspace Army page where the articles are turned into page segments complete with images and NIOLs? Also, it seems that Mr. Saturn does appear as an unlockable costume in SMM, so how would that information be moved? Other than that, I like this approach at remodeling our Smash coverage. 11:37, August 20, 2022 (EDT)
 * Great questions! I think the way Subspace Army enemies are listed is a better way to approach this situation. When it comes to the Mario Maker costumes, all of them are already covered at Costume Mario, including Mr. Saturn. Spectrogram (talk) 11:41, August 20, 2022 (EDT)
 * Yes, but I personally feel like the fact that Mr. Saturn appears as a costume in SMM is enough to exclude it by this proposal's standards, especially since the only reason the Star Rod from Kirby is excluded is because it appears as an item in one issue of Super Mario-kun. 11:48, August 20, 2022 (EDT)
 * Good point. I'll exclude it from the list, as well as Arwing for the exact same reason. Spectrogram (talk) 11:53, August 20, 2022 (EDT)

"Yes, but I personally feel like the fact that Mr. Saturn appears as a costume in SMM is enough to exclude it by this proposal's standards,"

I don't. We previously established appearances in stuff like WarioWare microgames or other crossovers wasn't enough to give characters like Mother Brain their own page, and also that the Costume Mario appearances are too insubstantial to warrant separate articles. The Star Rod stuff is different, because it's actually plot relevant to that Mario-kun volume. --Glowsquid (talk) 12:28, August 20, 2022 (EDT)
 * Fair point. 12:50, August 20, 2022 (EDT)
 * Should I readd the two excluded entries back into the List M? Spectrogram (talk) 12:54, August 20, 2022 (EDT)
 * I mean it's your proposal. Though my personal opinion would be "yes". --Glowsquid (talk) 13:00, August 20, 2022 (EDT)

I assume the F-Zero Racers aren't on this list because of Mario-related comic cameos. In that case, would the Arwing's cameo in Super Mario RPG be sufficient to keep the article? It does seem a touch more notable than the Wolfen. LinkTheLefty (talk) 21:59, August 21, 2022 (EDT)
 * I didn't know this article even existed, but from what it seems it can just barely qualify to not be included in this proposal. It is now too late to change the list anyway. Spectrogram (talk) 01:29, August 22, 2022 (EDT)

Miscellaneous
None at the moment.