Talk:Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS / Wii U

Since the title is conjectural, wouldn't it be a good idea to simplify it to Super Smash Bros. (3DS/Wii U)? 14:40, 11 June 2013 (EDT)

How exactly is the title conjectural in the first place, though? I got this logo from the SmashWiki, and there's a similar one for the 3DS version: Pseudo-dino (talk) 14:54, 11 June 2013 (EDT)


 * It doesn't seem like... a title. It seems they put a "for" to differentiate the two games, not as part of the title of the game. 15:00, 11 June 2013 (EDT)
 * Yes, but it's the closest thing we have to a title for the time being, and it comes from an official source. Even if it's just a working title, it's not conjectural. Pseudo-dino (talk) 16:14, 11 June 2013 (EDT)


 * It's a working title, we should have something better before long. -- 16:17, 11 June 2013 (EDT)
 * Should we keep the conjecture tag for the time being? It seems official enough to me (what if this actually is the official name, no matter how unlikely?), but obviously there's some disagreement. Pseudo-dino (talk) 16:25, 11 June 2013 (EDT)
 * We'll keep it, yeah. And even if it may seem official (it doesn't to me), it is not. -- 16:27, 11 June 2013 (EDT)
 * Er, the conjecture tag was removed, and not by me. I agree with removal, again, since the name is sourced. Should it stay this way? Pseudo-dino (talk) 18:00, 11 June 2013 (EDT)

Another New Comer???
I was just browsing the Super Smash Bros. 3DS/WiiU site and noticed space in the bottom right corner on the character roster, There's another newcomer to be announced!!!! - Cubeguy(talk)

Update!! Further probing reveals through the roster reveals six more character slots!! There's defiantly one more newcomer!!! - Cubeguy(talk)


 * There is a wide space on the bottom right corner, but I guess that's space for two veterans. 00:00, 12 June 2013 (EDT)


 * Well it could be, but it wouldn't surprise me if they decided to round the numbers of for the newcomers. Im hopping! - Cubeguy2ver.pnguy(talk)


 * Empty space on the website has nothing to do with the amount of characters left to be revealed because the website scales according to screen size and if there aren't enough characters to fill a line, there's nothing else to put there and there will obviously be empty space left. TheMultiYoshi (talk) 18:02, 28 July 2014 (EDT)

Special characters for different versions?
So i just rellised that there is no footage or images of the wii fit trainer on the 3ds version, so i have the feeling that there are certain characters on certain versions. - Cubeguy(talk)

Forget that. - Cubeguy(talk)

Characters
Just wondering. Would it be safe to assume that all of the original twelve would appear in this game? User:FireFlower
 * Probably, but it's best to wait until they're announced before adding it in.

Even like Jigglypuff or Captin Falcon User:FireFlower
 * Yes, because they haven't been announced so it'd be classed as speculation and removed.

We can already assume Ness Luigi and Sonic will return. It's Luigi's year, Mother 3 will be released in Europe. Nintendo have scored Sonic so he can return to the series royalty free. Plus they are working in adding many characters as possible so we will see many newcomers first party and 3rd party. User:Donaldthescotishtwin
 * But someone said that the characters would be limited because of the 3DS' capabilities, and so not everyone is returning.

The game is still early in development is it not? Down the line eventually the 3DS version will have a smaller rooster but with more newcomers to replace characters that could not make it, and those will be the ones returning for the WiiU version. The 3Ds may have even more newcomers than the WiiU. There's also the possibility of DLC yes they are not considering it now, but they listen to the fans and they are able to now so it would be crazy not to have downloadable characters. User:Donaldthescotishtwin

That's a good point. It would be crazy if there was no DLC. And I don't know about Ness returning. We haven't seen ANY evidence of him or Lucas returning. Just because Mother 3 will be released soon, doesn't mean Ness will come back. And it's pretty obvious that Luigi's a playable character. He's one of Nintendo's best characters. It would be stupid to not have Luigi in. (Super65)

3D OOT
Since the 3DS version has stages based on portable titles shouldn't we say gerudo valley is based of Ocrania of Time 3D?

It mostly likly will but we wo n't know for quite awhile. - Cubeguy(talk)

Forget that the stages where in the trailer. - Cubeguy(talk)

It was said a long time ago that the characters are the same and the sages are different.

Wii Fit Soccer Ball
I believe that's part of Wii Fit Trainer's moves, not an item by itself. Look at 6:55 in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQD1yJinzeQ&feature=player_detailpage#t=414s --Baconator (talk) 00:02, 14 June 2013 (EDT)

THE TITLE IS ANNOUNCED!!
The title's are simple Super Smash Bros. One is for the 3DS and the other for the WiiU. Here is the link to the article containing it and a bunch of new inforamtion - Cubeguy(talk)

Ice Climbers
"Mentioned during a Q&A with Masahiro Sakurai as some characters being worked on, but may not make it."

This does not confirm them or deny them. He just used them as an example. So I do not think they should be there. Crash-Bash (talk) 16:55, 14 June 2013 (EDT)

Another three characters
If you go on the mobile version of the official website click on somebody scroll all the way down it will show characters go to the third page and it will show 3 empty slots!!! 68.149.81.38

Cubeguy already mentioned that, didn't you hear?


 * Yeah, im all other this like......um....when i was with Luigis Mansion 2. - Cubeguy2ver.pnguy(talk)

The real question is, who will fill those 3 empty slots? Perhaps a few newcomers? (Super65)

Update Artwork
Shouldn't the artwork of all the characters be updated from the Brawl photos to the new ones released ? 15:16, 19 June 2013 (EDT)
 * You mean for articles such as Kirby, Link, and Fox McCloud? I don't know, actually, but I feel that people won't let us change the artwork until the game is released. 15:21, 19 June 2013 (EDT)

Possible boxarts
Her you go: http://www.mariowiki.com/File:SSB4_boxart_2.jpeg http://www.mariowiki.com/images/7/7c/ShyGuyRed-CSS2-MSS.png Shyman


 * Sorry that's fan art, which is something we don't cover here.


 * 11:24, 22 June 2013 (EDT)
 * @YoshiKong: Don't you mean something we don't' cover here? -- 11:25, 22 June 2013 (EDT)


 * Yes that's exactly what I meant lol. After two work shifts in one day I don't think my hand-eye co-ordination is being careful with the keyboard strokes :P


 * 11:30, 22 June 2013 (EDT)


 * May i just say the titles of the games where announced earlier, which i posted here with the link to the article. Just saying we can easily dodge fan art covers as the names for both games is just Super Smash Bros. - Cubeguy2ver.pnguy(talk)

Yellow Devil explanation
I put Yellow devil on the page back during Megamans reveal trailer at E3, but i really didn't explain where he is seen. Frankly if it wasn't for a friend i wouldn't have noticed him. After the Smash bros. title at the end of the trailer, there is a small scene, a few seconds long, showing megaman about to face Yellow Devil on the Wilys castle stage, i dont know if it is apart of classic mode or the new adventure mode, most likely the latter. I hope this clears up any confusion. - Cubeguy(talk)

Donkey Kong Country Returns stage?
First of all why is this in the 3DS stage selection unless it's the 3DS version, and second could we move this to Other until it is actually revealed if its a stage or part of story mode. - Cubeguy(talk)
 * Just mentioning that although there will be no story mode it could be part of an adventure mode. I agree, I think it should be moeved to Other. MarioComix (talk) 01:05, 9 August 2013 (EDT)
 * Adventure Mode? Story Mode? Whats the difference same thing,was a bit confused for a bit and started going on a pointless search. Also i recommend proper investigations in to stages from now.
 * Well I believe that Melee had an Adventure mode, which was just a unique single player mode with no real storyline, while Brawl had a true Story mode with cutscenes and all. I'm just saying that with the confirmation of no story mode and cutscenes, it's still possible to see an Adventure mode like seen in Melee. MarioComix (talk) 03:47, 12 August 2013 (EDT)
 * I remember though there being an article from an interview stating that all the story mode cut scenes would be unlocked from the beginning for some reason. im just putting this out there. - Cubeguy2ver.pnguy(talk)

Now, are we SURE...
Now, it says that as "Part of the Year of Luigi", Luigi will be a playable character in SSB 3ds/Wii U. Luigi appears in previous installments as a playable character, are we SURE that it's part of the YoL??? 12:38, 9 August 2013 (EDT)
 * I don't think it is, considering the game comes out next year, after the Year of Luigi has finished.
 * Well, seeing that it comes out in '2014, that's next Year, right??? 13:59, 9 August 2013 (EDT)
 * Yep, that's basically what I said :P

What it meant was that as part of the Year of Luigi, they announced him earlier than usual, since in the past games he was a secret character and would remain hidden for a while. MarioComix (talk) 17:19, 9 August 2013 (EDT)

Exactly. Luigi will make it either way. He's one of Nintendo's best characters of all time. He'll never leave a Smash Bros game by any means. (Super65)

Different Final Smashes?
This looks similar to some kind of final smash. Is it just me, or does it look like a new Final Smash? Thats what I think. 08:14, 16 August 2013 (EDT)
 * If this was a new Final Smash, then that would mean they pretty much confirmed five-player mode with this screenshot. We will just have to wait and see. DK Fan
 * It's the X Bomb from Kid Icarus, it's a new item.
 * That doesn't look like the X-bomb. Can someone confirm this, also if it is a characters smash then it wouldnt confirm 5 player support, honestly why would there be 5 players. - Cubeguy2ver.pnguy(talk)
 * I can't get direct quotes from Miiverse, but this has the quote http://www.ssbwiki.com/X_Bomb
 * I see it now, sorry for the inconvenience. - Cubeguy2ver.pnguy(talk)

Multiplayer mode
Does this have multiplayer mode??? Is it like NSMB2, where only local works, or like LMDM, where you can play online (3DS)???


 * Muliplayers one of the key aspects of the Super Smash Bros. games so it's not surprising if it is included. Though the process for playing multiplayer on 3ds where by its required for all participants to have a copy of the game or not is not known. These connectivity questions are usually answered towards the games release so just wait till then. - Cubeguy2ver.pnguy(talk)

Split Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS / Wii U into and
DO NOT SPLIT 1-11

I feel that these articles should be split - there's a lot of information and pictures differentiating the two, and even new sets of courses. This is NOT a remake like Donkey Kong Country Returns 3D is, and we have an article for that game.

Proposer: Deadline: September 14 2013, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) Per proposal.

Oppose

 * 1) We should wait until we have more info on this game before splitting the page. There would also be a lot of duplicate information on each page. Also per Tails777.
 * 2) Not until we got more information, probably the name will be changed. Otherwise per Mario7 and the guy underneath me.
 * 3) Then we'd have to split the Mario & Sonic games since they have home and handheld versions. Per all.
 * 4) We should wait more. They were announced at the same time, and have a lot in common.
 * 5) - Per Mario7 and Tails777.
 * 6) Per Tucayo.
 * 7) Way too little is known besides the systems individual graphics and courses. Everything else could be the same or not. Until both games are out they should be left alone.
 * 8) I don't think the games have enough unique things to warrant their own seperate articles.
 * 9) Per all.
 * 10) Per Tucayo.
 * 11) Not enough information to split it now, per all.

Comments
Now that I think about it - we have an article for Super Mario All-Stars Limited Edition, and that's nothing more than Super Mario All-Stars with a CD in the case. -- 11:52, 31 August 2013 (EDT)

@Tails777: Actually the Mario & Sonic games are different too, so I'd also like to have them split. I'll probably make a proposal for that sort of thing. -- 16:02, 1 September 2013 (EDT)


 * The policy does indeed call for the two games to be split, which must happen eventually (and perhaps with the gallery as well). But now isn't a good time. The amount of information about the game is still very limited, and it seems that the best thing to do is to have all the known info collected onto the one page as of now.


 * 04:27, 2 September 2013 (EDT)

If i may say, and this might not be of any use but something to keep in mind, is that both games are not coming out at the same time. The one that comes out first, most likly the WiiU version as a large portion of images and video seem to come from it, will come out allowing development on this main article which if the splitting does happen at a later stage, is no real big deal as the article weill be more aimed at the version that was first released. Just saying to keep this thought, possibility in mind. - Cubeguy(talk)


 * We'll try our very best to maintain clarity between both articles. And besides, it's not as if everyone will choose the Wii U version over the 3DS one: in the long run I think they will both become as complete as each other. Ohhhhhh I'm so excited!


 * 07:19, 4 September 2013 (EDT)

What did choosing have to do with anything i said? I was just making a hunch due to the amount of media that was focused on the WiiU version. - Cubeguy(talk)

Bump. 16:32, 13 September 2013 (EDT)
 * What?
 * I'm bumping the discussion. 16:38, 13 September 2013 (EDT)
 * There is literally no reason to do so, if the users are going to continue their discussion they will, if they don't they don't.
 * Whatever. I don't really care :| 16:41, 13 September 2013 (EDT)
 * You must care if you went to the trouble of those posts. - Cubeguy2ver.pnguy(talk)
 * Why the fuck are you continuing this? 08:36, 14 September 2013 (EDT)


 * Easy now, guys.


 * 08:40, 14 September 2013 (EDT)

This is called Super Smash Bros. 4 by SmashWiki, so why do we say SSBF3DS/WIIU?!?!
The Mario series is less represented in this game and the title is goofy. There's no relation to the title by Donkey Kong and Donkey Kong, so why call it this dumb title? Also, the Fake ? Panel should be called ¿ Panel instead. But only ONE stage based on Mario appears, and that is Super Mario 3D Land?!?! That's it! ¿¡@& this title and just call it Super Smash Bros. 4.

UnshyGuy

It's called this, because at this current moment in time it is its official name.


 * Im just adding this, but it was never actually called SSB4 at all, its been Super Smash Bros. For 3DS & WiiU since its announcment. - Cubeguy2ver.pnguy(talk)

"Other Characters"
I had removed this section in a rewrite before because there is really no confirmation that they are characters. For all we know, they could serve different purposes within the game, such as stage "objects," Assist Trophies (should those return), bosses, or items. It also kind of strikes me as inconsistent to list them as characters and format it differently from other sections about characters. 20:10, 28 October 2013 (EDT)


 * Indeed, it seems like speculation to list them as "characters" when they could actually be, as you said, another element such as stage object. But we're not yet sure how they appear, but nevertheless they do. So it would be acceptable to list them as "others", and their role within the game can be elaborated on as more information becomes available.


 * 03:33, 29 October 2013 (EDT)


 * It does make sense to include them in a manner similar to the one suggested– not including them at all would render the article incomplete. However, my one concern is that "others" is a little too generic as its own heading (like, other whats, exactly?). I think it would be acceptable if there was something else a little more specific but that does not indicate them as characters yet. 03:49, 29 October 2013 (EDT)


 * That's true. Having a separate header titled "Others" wouldn't seem logical. Perhaps, as we use "Others" under the stages header to describe unidentified stages, we could have "Others" listed under the characters header. Or alternatively, we could have two separate main headers: "Playable characters" and "Other characters".


 * 04:10, 29 October 2013 (EDT)
 * We could add something along the lines of "The roles of these characters is unconfirmed at the moment" under the header. Or just call it "Unknown Characters". Just throwing out suggestions. -- bluereddarkorangegreenpurple
 * Since we got rid of "Others" under the "Stages" header, perhaps we should just go with the separate "Other characters" header as YoshiKong suggested and add a disclaimer like Skittles suggested. Should the section be formatted in a list (as it was before) or in tables (like most of the other sections are)? If we go with tables, we will need to get images of the "other characters." 16:55, 4 November 2013 (EST)

Donkey Kong Stage not confirmed
This stage has not been confirmed as an actual stage, and thus it has been titled as "other" since there is no real evidence supporting it as a stage or a section of the adventure mode. - Cubeguy(talk) BOO!!! ^w^
 * Your solution is inconsistent with your argument behind it. You say that this area is not a confirmed stage, yet you classify it as an "other stage." It is either a stage or it is not. Also, we classify stages either as being in the 3DS version or the Wii U version of the game– an "other" classification in this instance would indicate that it can be something other than a 3DS or Wii U stage, which is not possible. From what I understand, this area is in the 3DS version, so we have classified it under that section. 01:35, 30 October 2013 (EDT)


 * I agree with Super Mario Bros. It wouldn't make sense to list it as "other".


 * 01:57, 30 October 2013 (EDT)

I agree that its not the best thing to list it under but there just isnt enough informationt supplied to list it as a stage. The only info on it is a couple of seconds of just mario jumping on it. - Cubeguy(talk) BOO!!! ^w^
 * But this fits the definition as a stage, regardless if you fight there in adventure mode or not. All settings you fight on are considered stages. This includes those levels in Adventure Mode in Melee, that counts as a stage. Same with the nonplayable Metal Cavern and Final Destination level in Super Smash Bros. Granted, most of these are very big stages, but we don't discriminate. 15:54, 31 October 2013 (EDT)

Alternate Costumes Return? Maybe, Maybe not....
So ran across this article and thought id bring it to light.  It has the male version of the wii fit trainer but doesn't confirm it actually being ingame. - Cubeguy(talk)
 * What's the source of the image? We need more information before we say that the male version of Wii Fit Trainer even exists in Super Smash Bros. 4. 18:59, 1 November 2013 (EDT)
 * I think I've seen it on the Smash Bros. official website.
 * Oh, I haven't visited it in such a long time, so please refresh me. Even then, we shouldn't jump to conclusions. 19:03, 1 November 2013 (EDT)
 * That was the daily SSB4 pic that Sakurai posted on Miiverse on the 31st of October, I believe.
 * Hm, if it's true, then it's more likely an alternate skin (and probably a different set of voices) than a separate character. It would be weird if there is only a female version of the Wii Fit Trainer. 19:07, 1 November 2013 (EDT)
 * This page has all of the daily pictures Sakurai posts, and was where I saw it:

Name of the Super Mario Galaxy-based stage
As Sakurai have mentioned in his Miiverse page, the official name of the stage is "Mario Galaxy". So shouldn't we change the name of the unknown stage from Super Mario Galaxy to "Mario Galaxy"? --Csrspirit (talk) 02:49, 10 December 2013 (EST)

The name
for the Galaxy stage is Mario Galaxy, according to SmashWiki.


 * Is this sourced?
 * Never mind found a source.

Release Dates
While checking the list of games, I've noticed that the release dates for Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo Wii U are set as 2014/08/27 for Japan, and 2014/08/31 for North America. Do we even have a source that proves this? 13:59, 25 December 2013 (EST)

Re: Zelda
Just confirmed, I know, and I saw an image of her with a Phantom from Phantom Hourglass. Think it's a new trophy, or somehow a sign of something else altogether? Lord Grammaticus (talk) 01:48, 26 December 2013 (EST)
 * I have a feeling it's part of her moveset, since the Phantom seen is pinkish, which is the colour of the Phantom when Toon Zelda is controlling it in Spirit Tracks. Also, I find it unusual that basically none of her pictures show off her attacks. MarioComix (talk) 01:53, 26 December 2013 (EST)
 * You say thay like we didn't wanna see Peach stealing Link. :y
 * But yeah, definitely noticed, which is why I asked. We'll probably get attack images and/or more Phantom-related details in the next few days. Though Zelda pulling a Jojo with her Phantom form would be amazing, pipe dream or not. Lord Grammaticus (talk) 02:03, 26 December 2013 (EST)

Starfy confirmed as assist trophy?
Nothing said he was confirmed as an assist trophy! Peteyking
 * Bar the source that I provided that shows a link to MiiVerse items, where he is under the sub-section of Assist Trophies. }

Yeah, but is that actually Miiverse or another source. The Smash Wiki says he's not a assist trophy. Peteyking
 * SmashWiki doesn't know everything, and the source seems pretty reliable.


 * Smash Wiki lists him in the Assist Trophy template. SeanWheeler (talk) 22:08, 29 December 2013 (EST)

Wii U Control options
The main article page states that the Wii U can use Gamepad and Pro Controllers. I'd like a source for Wii Remotes and Nunchucks not being an option.

Wario?
With the announcement of Waluigi as an Assist Trophy, is that sufficient confirmation that Wario is a playable Character again? 3D Player 2004


 * No because Nintendo themselves never said anything about it.

You have a point there. But remember, this game still has a long ways till it's released, and since Waluigi is once again an assist trophy, there's no doubt Wario be something in this game. Whether it's an assist trophy or a playable character. But for now, let's wait for more evidence. (Super65)

Ashley from Warioware is an assist trophy so he could be in the game as a hidden character.

Alt Stages
Just a dumb question, but why does our wiki list both variations of the Punch Out!! stage as separate stages instead of a single stage? It's a safer and honestly much better assumption given previous stages with similar mechanics (see: Spear Pillar).

In a similar vein, we also have "the city from Animal Crossing: City Folk" listed as a separate stage when it's just an alternate background for the new Animal Crossing stage. Like, wut. GBAToad (talk) 06:37, 13 March 2014 (EDT)

Adventure Mode
"the game's Adventure Mode will be significantly different than the Subspace Emissary."

Has "Adventure Mode" been explicitly mentioned, or is it actually this Smash Run that has been revealed from the latest direct? I just need clarification. 19:28, 8 April 2014 (EDT)

Super Leaf
I don't remember seeing the Super Leaf anywhere in the direct, could somebody possibly get a source for this, or is it just speculation? bluereddarkorangegreenpurple
 * Nevermind, saw the source in recent changes. bluereddarkorangegreenpurple

Ridley Boss
It was implied but not confirmed that he was a boss, and considering how much Sakuria was trolling during the direct, I think Ridley should be removed from the boss list until it's flat out confirmed.

~Chaoxys

Leak of Roster
There is a leak on the internet about the Super Smash Bros. 4 roster. I am not able to interpret if it is fake or not however if it is real, I would like to upload the image with the source, or just the source and there is a link that'll take you to the picture. Could someone explain to me how to cite another source/picture or could somebody maybe look around the web to see ifthey can find the same source.

User:FireFlower

Orne
you people do know that orne is from kid icarus: uprising, dont you? http://www.kidicaruswiki.org/Orne


 * The "Unknown" refers to its role in the game. MarioComix (talk) 22:00, 4 May 2014 (EDT)

King K Rool?
I've found a scan of what would be a SSB4 game guide. I got it from IGN. [Click Here]. Is that a confirmation of King K Rool in this game?
 * It is REAL! The thread and the image were pisted in Feb 15, 2014. Long time before SSB Direct and Rosalina's miveset confirmation. Also, the moveset is 100% righy. I am sorty, but I am 80% sure King K Rool is the newcomer instead of Daisy (I hate this K. rool). Don't belive in me? take a look!
 * The moveset is only partially correct. Rosalina's confirmed moveset is:

The one on there is: Peanutjon (talk) 18:36, 22 May 2014 (EDT)
 * Standard - Luma Shot
 * Side - Star Bits
 * Up - Launch Star
 * Down - Gravitational Pull
 * Final Smash - Power Star.
 * Standard - I can't read it...
 * Side - Luma Short
 * Up - Launch Star
 * Down - Gravitational Pull
 * Final Smash - Power Star
 * Maybe is beta: Luma Shot is the onky different, exchanged by the first one. Also the first one says Snowman Luma or StarBits Luma. I also can't read that
 * I am sorry. It says SUMMON LUMA. Good eye >.<
 * Well, I guess anything's possible, but this is far from proof... So let's leave it as speculation for now :P Peanutjon (talk) 18:40, 22 May 2014 (EDT)
 * Ok. Also, the final smash in this smage says Luma Bolt, no Power Star
 * Oh, I meant that, lol. On the other hand, I can't find any proof for Star Bits being a special move, or how to trigger the others (besides Power Star), meaning only Luma Bolt is definitely wrong. But still speculation, so... Peanutjon (talk) 18:43, 22 May 2014 (EDT)
 * Agreed. In a side note, Luma Bokt could be an beta name for Power Star, cause it summons lightning strikes beside the power star, am i wrongg?
 * Aside from the moveset being different, K. Rool's art is actually fan art that has been around for a while. -- bluereddarkorangegreenpurple
 * Nope, this art is a lot different

Definetely fake, Rosalina's final smash is the Power Star, not Luma Ball.

Please make sure the information comes from a first source, not a second or third source material. - Cubeguy(talk)

Coliseum (Fire Emblem)
There's a new stage announced http://mariopartylegacy.com/2014/06/week-51-super-smash-bros-official-site-updates/ user:wario land 3 07:49, 6 June 2014 (EDT)

Pacman?
I was looking around on a site until I found a link showing Pacman being playable for new smash bros games. Here's the link. Whoops, forgot to sign my signature User:Nintendoplayerawesome

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/06/11/e3-2014-pac-man-announced-for-new-super-smash-bros
 * I'm sorry, but there is NO footage of that whatsoever. Tell us when you have reliable proof. - 22:47, 10 June 2014 (EDT)

Well the information is new so there isn't going to be new images of him yet. The only proof I have are just these two sites seeming to confirm that he's in. The above link and this one. http://kotaku.com/pacman-is-a-character-in-smash-bros-1589074217

He could be added now or until we have more info but that's all I have. I'll try to look further into it.User:Nintendoplayerawesome
 * He was announced on Nintendo of America's Twitter. 22:59, 10 June 2014 (EDT)

Confirmation video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYQFy4flXfU. MarioComix (talk) 23:40, 10 June 2014 (EDT)

Game & Watch
SO going off the pacman reveal, (TF2 Heavy) "which is no big surprise", but does anyone know if Game & Watch is back, he does appear at the end of the trailer, but he's used as a timeline example but it might also be another reveal since he has appeared in the series since Melee? Anyone got any other info? - Cubeguy(talk)
 * It just shows that he debuted in the same year as Pac-Man. 15:04, 11 June 2014 (EDT)

I already stated that, after some thought he might be some of the locked unmentioned characters. - Cubeguy(talk)

With the fact that he appears at the end of the trailer, it's very possible that Game & Watch is returning. (Super65)

Split
Shouldn't we split it into Super Smash Bros for Nintendo 3DS and Super Smash Bros for Wii U? they have diffiremt elements and names? I know it't already discussed but now that there is more info? 15:00, 11 June 2014 (EDT)
 * We should still probably wait. 15:04, 11 June 2014 (EDT)
 * We already talked about this. Look up. DK Fan

Ridley
Wasn't Ridley confirmed as a boss on the pyro sphere stage in the boss explanation video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fb35vh33Mb8, heres the explanation of it so you dont have to sit through the whole video. - Cubeguy(talk)
 * The thing is, it's not 100% confirmed. It hasn't been explicitly stated to be Ridley, and it's not like Gamexplain is working for Sakurai. MarioComix (talk) 05:10, 13 June 2014 (EDT)
 * the video is from Sakurai though. - Cubeguy2ver.pnguy(talk)

Where are the trophies?
I just noticed that there are no trophies mentiond anywhere! 07:38, 13 June 2014 (EDT)

Luigis Final Smash!
Heres a link to a video with luigis final smash, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7ao5KReP8U, can someone add it to where it goes, at the current time my nets choppy -.-  - Cubeguy(talk)

I saw a guy on YouTube named Nathaniel Bandy. And he made a prediction on this game. And his prediction of Luigi's final smash is the exact same final smash that Nintendo has confirmed. (Super65)

Non-existent Articles
I've noticed that a lot of the stages are in red text due to there not being pages for them. I tried to fix that buy linking them to the SmashWiki, but it got reverted back. The reverter said they were "future articles, therefore they should be red-linked." I see no reason to wait until October or December just to create a page, when there are already useable pages somewhere else. I suggest we link the pages to the SmashWiki for now, and until pages are created for them here on the Super Mario Wiki, then we keep it that way. Aidanzapunk (talk) 08:59, 26 June 2014 (EDT)

No more userbox signatures
Can people please use there signature and not there userbox's your making a mess of the article. - Cubeguy(talk)

Cubeguy, I'm so sorry

3DS Version ESRB Rating?
When was Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS rated E10+ by the ESRB? When I checked the box, it was still marked RP. Though, I agree with the Nintendo 3DS version being rated E10+ and the Wii U version being rated T.--Tryloubliss (talk) 14:32, 15 July 2014 (EDT)


 * It's shown as being rated E10+ on the Nintendo website.


 * -Toa 95 (talk)


 * Oh, okay. Thanks! (That should be referenced in the article itself.)--Tryloubliss (talk) 16:22, 15 July 2014 (EDT)

Paper Mario Stages
Two new stages I think. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezL2nRRDC9g&list=UUfAPTv1LgeEWevG8X_6PUOQ

New mode?
A target smash-home run contest-angry birds mashup, named target blast. Any info?

- Well basically its home-run and target smash mixed together, when you hit the bomb it starts counting down from 10, you have till 0 to break the barrier and fling it at the targets before it explodes. The aim is to make the explosion destroy as many targets as possible along with causing the structure to destroy the rest. Put it simply angry birds but you only get 1 shot and its timed. - Cubeguy(talk)

August 12, CoroCoro Reveal
I was just wondering. Wasn't there going to be some sort of video or article about the remaining characters and stages for the game? Secondly, I saw that this idea was scrapped and that there was not going to be any information distributed. Is it going to happen or did they jump the gun on this? User:FireFlower


 * Oh that, that was never specified to reveal the remaining stages and characters, its a list of all the current stuff like the wiki page here, some people got over hyped and purplemonkeydishwasherd it. This happened with Brawl as well if im correct with the same company. So, yes the article will happen just not with the information people want. - Cubeguy2ver.pnguy(talk)

Wario: Is this valid proof?
http://nintendonews.com/2014/07/wario-super-smash-bros-3ds-eshop/


 * can't locate this on my eshop, although that may be due to being in a different region. You could say its valid, but its probably just reference since he was in Brawl. To sound like an old record just wait till actual word from Nintendo comes out, rater than from articles with speculation. - Cubeguy2ver.pnguy(talk)
 * It was on the American eShop and was removed shortly after people saw it. Personally, I think it is real, but it'd be best to just wait until Nintendo officially announces him.
 * So... Anyone to make the final verdict, or are we going to need a poll? Toadbrigade5 (talk) 14:26, 16 August 2014 (EDT)
 * We don't need a judge and a poll would be a waste of time, we're better off just waiting until he's officially confirmed.
 * Both Waluigi and Wariowares' Ashley appear as trophies so he's most likely in.

Bunch of pics
I dunno if these are already uploaded, but there is a lot of images at http://www.technobuffalo.com/2014/08/21/why-smash-bros-wii-u-is-releasing-after-3ds/.

LEAK!!!
http://nintendonews.com/2014/08/leaked-videos-smash-bros-characters/ http://nintendonews.com/2014/08/leaked-super-smash-bros-videos-removed/ http://nintendonews.com/2014/08/super-smash-bros-leaker-nintendo-employee/

Read the articles before you say anytning.


 * I've seen these leaks and call my crazy, but regardless of how realistic they look, I'm still very skeptical. I'm not sure if we should do anything about it really.

Because Nintendo has not officially confirmed anything, I don't think we should add it to the wiki yet. MarioComix (talk) 01:36, 26 August 2014 (EDT)


 * A similiar thing happened awhile back with these characters along with ness and the duck hunt dog being playable. Again like everyone else its better to just wait till Nintendo or someone wiht the japanese version tells us so. Although its a bit odd for nintendo of america to pull the videos down, so they could be real, but i'd still wait till where given the word. - Cubeguy2ver.pnguy(talk)

I think this should end up in the rumors page, even though now it's leaked. Surprised that Geno isn't in the list.
 * This footage was probably made so realistic it makes people wonder how it could be fake, as far as I know. This could be like the rumored DLC characters for Mario Kart 8. Tsunami, I don't think this makes the rumors page because it isn't common enough like the insistence of Luigi in 64, and who knows, maybe it is real. But... I don't think so.
 * OK, so, as for now, let's just put a  ?   . Because fanon is already able to do models and textures (Icy Thwomp Ruins). And they could have already boosted to HD too. I dunno, I find out of this today, so I didn't see any video.
 * Shulk confirmed. I bet you 20 dollars BJ and Ganon will tooToadbrigade5 (talk) 23:09, 29 August 2014 (EDT)
 * And I hear theres two more spots, and the leaks graphics and things, and the fact nintendo responded.Toadbrigade5 (talk) 23:10, 29 August 2014 (EDT)

For the Xenoblade fans
This just came out, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaKQWQdcEE0&list=UUfAPTv1LgeEWevG8X_6PUOQ - Cubeguy(talk)

Double Pack
It seems I'm caring about this game even if I don't want it. [] Where to put it?
 * Id put it under promotions. - Cubeguy2ver.pnguy(talk)

Stage confirmations
Distant planet, corneria and yoshi's island, can someone please refrence these, if no one can we shouldn't be jumping to conclusions just because 1 character was announced. - Cubeguy(talk)
 * Sorry, but I don't understand you. If you haven't any pic, let's just put them as text under the table of the respective game.
 * I'm asking for someone to provide actual evidence that these stages are in the game, since these stages where part of a supposed leak, which someone has jumped to the conclusion that they are in the game because of shulk being announced. Unless actual proof of it exist's it shouldn't be on the page, thus i am asking for proof that these 3 stages are in the game, otherwise they will be removed. - Cubeguy2ver.pnguy(talk)


 * http://kotaku.com/five-impressive-minutes-of-super-smash-bros-3ds-1628456200?utm_campaign=Socialflow_Kotaku_Facebook&utm_source=Kotaku_Facebook&utm_medium=Socialflow sorry, like I said in my edit summary, I couldn't get this in the article, but this is my source for the three stages.


 * Also, Mushroomy Kingdom was shown off as well...at least 1-1 in that video - Solarblade 10:45 31 August 2014 (EST)

Order
In which order are the characters? Series? I will leave the Veterans as they are but move all the Newcomers in the order of reveal (which I dunno)
 * The order of characters isn't a concern right now, they will later get moved into the "default" "Unlockable" category once the game is released. - Cubeguy2ver.pnguy(talk)

Pokemon
Just wanted to run by that Inkay and Zoroark are Pokeball characters, confirmed by the official site. - Solarblade 02:03, 31 August 2014 (EDT)

Metal Face
At the end of Shulk's trailer, Metal Face's shadow flies above him and he talks. However, it is unknown what role he has in the game. Where should he go on the page? -- 17:48, 1 September 2014 (EDT)
 * Might be an assist trophy, might be a boss, just wait till it comes out before placing him anywhere. - Cubeguy2ver.pnguy(talk)
 * From what I could imagine, looks like a boss. I will definitely put it an unconfirmed section though.

Ganondorf?
There's a possibility that Ganondorf from the Legend of Zelda series is in. The proof is this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUfvYAj-vHE

Well this is visual proof from an official source, though I'm not 100 percent sure if we will add it. I for one think we should, but that's just me.


 * The consensus right now is to simply wait for the game's 3DS Japanese release, it's not that far off.

Pikmin & Alph
So does this go into new characters? It seems he's an alternate costume to Olimar, but he has his name and such when he battles that makes him look like his own thing Pic

This was from a Demo Event out in Japan - Solarblade (Talk) 04:14, 07 September 2014 (EDT)
 * It could be true... unless it is photoshopped like MK8 fake DLC. If you look closely, the others have alternate costumes too. Rosalina (& Chiko! Wut? ) turns in Fire Flower form (red instead lightblue) Link looks like possessed by something, Diddy Kong is the new Dixie Kong and Olimar takes a break and gives Alph a try . Anyway, I would wait for a confirm. 3 characters have been already leaked, so they may have started with this, though this is unlikely, counterthough the site where the photo was allows to custom them. so it may be fake, but I didn't check any demo or stuff. I also wonder why Rosalina (& Chiko, never forgot) has Japanese name and the others don't. Width problems?


 * It is, it's from a guy who has been playing the demo the last two nights giving a LOT of information. Those are some of the alternate outfits (and Chiko is the Japanese name for Luma.  Others are Fierce Deity Link and Diddy has had that color since Brawl. - Solarblade (Talk) 13:14, 07 September 2014 (EDT)

If any of what you say be true, then provide video proof, and by video proof i mean actual gameplay from the the guy, its alot harder to fake and to keep it up to date then. - Cubeguy(talk)
 * Well, now it's official from the recent Famitsu magazine Pic - Solarblade (Talk) 13:47, 10 September 2014 (EDT)
 * That is an alternate costume? I don't know Japanese, but it was in the corner of the different colored Olimars.

Well its confirmed Alph is in the game, but is one of olimars variations and can't use rock pikmin apparently, the names do change though, now how to list this since he isnt his own character. - Cubeguy(talk)
 * Sooner or later an alternate costumes section will come, and we'll list him there. NOT in Newcomers, even though it is.

Time to split?
I think we have enough information to be able to make clear distinctions between the 3DS and Wii U Smash Bros. games, and I think it's high time we distinguish them as two separate games. Basically, the only thing these games share is the character roster and items. Everything else is different. Most of the stages are unique to each console, each boasts different version-exclusive features (Smash Run for 3DS, Amiibo support for Wii U as for instance), and most importantly they aren't being marketed as the same game, unlike other cross-platform Nintendo games like the Mario and Sonic series. At this point, it's apparent that the only connection between these games is the sharing of character customizations. They are individually named and don't share a title, these are definitely two separate games and not a cross-platform version of the same game. They're not being released together, so at the very least we need to specify that these games aren't a unified cross-platform title.

I know we had a poll for this about a year ago, but we said we'd wait until we knew more about these games and now we do know a lot more, so it's something we need to re-consider. Mariofanatic64 (talk)
 * I would wait until both games will be released and someone of the wiki plays both. If they have enough differences, MAYBE split. Maybe because the games have been treated togheter for a very long time, and the bond brokes only with the anticipied release of the 3DS version in the confront of the Wii U one that should exit in 2014. And having an old poll doesn't mean it's done. It can be reproposed every 4 weeks. So, wait until we see enough differences, someone please list them here and MAYBE this could be a disambig to the 3DS and Wii U versions. But, not yet. Nintendo reveals a lot, but not everything, so wait until it's proven the game are partly completely different.

I must disagree with your amiibo claim, they can be used on the 3ds with a wireless add-on, or in the new 3ds case the bottom screen, also the 3ds version has been the main focus that not alot is known about the wiiu version, theres also this consideration of DLC floating about the interwebs. But back to my main point both versions use amiibo's. - Cubeguy(talk)
 * Maybe he was saying from start in the Wii U (due to preinstalled things in the GamePad), while you have to wait for 2015 (2014 in Japan) to use them in the 3DS version. Still, there aren't enough differences to split them up, so wait for the game to be released! At least in Japan. It's only some days away.
 * I think you meant to say after the wiiU version. - Cubeguy2ver.pnguy(talk)

We don't have confirmation the 3DS version will be compatible with Amiibos at the moment. We know the 3DS will be supporting Amiibos in the future but Smash 3DS hasn't specifically been confirmed to support them, just Smash Wii U. Mariofanatic64 (talk)

Link
Look what I found in Wikia's Nintendo Wiki... Alternate Link costumes! Light blue, purple, and red, and there was a dark one in another pic that has already been linked. Don't look at the article, I was just browsing

Alph, character or variation?
So i gotta say it, Alphs just Olimar with a diffrent skin, sure the name changes but thats just a nod to the character apparently. - Cubeguy(talk)

streams?
should we consider the streamed gameplay as an evidence for unlockable characters?
 * 1) CANTSIGNSEARCHMEWARIOLAND3
 * Uhm. They should be put as reference, as always. YouTube isn't allowed within articles.

Bowser jr. variations
This came up in the following article, http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/news/38484/multiple-new-smash-bros-characters-confirmed, Bowser Jr.s alternates are the other koopa kids, so they'll need to be added to where ever alph's going. - Cubeguy(talk)

Should be noted the other koopa kids have a diffrent victory animation to Bowser Jr. - Cubeguy(talk)

That leak was real
Re cap. The leak everyone hated was real. Question: Does that mean the DLC characters IZAT TRUE mentioned might also be real?

They were Ice climbers, Lucas, Wolf, Snake, Chorus Kids, Mewtwo.

Maybe this can be noted in trivia or incorporated to the article.Toadbrigade5 (talk) 19:17, 11 September 2014 (EDT)

The person who claimed there was DLC stated it was a joke, but Nintendo may do it, who knows, but whether the character leaks should be mentioned or not in the trivia is probably a good idea, im not entirely sure though it does seem worth noting but.... - Cubeguy(talk)

You have to remember the DLC stating guy was the guy who made the leak.If he was revealing true information, why would he lie? And with all the new characters, isn't it strange these six didn't appear? It's hardly coincidential. Toadbrigade5 (talk) 21:49, 11 September 2014 (EDT)

The above website also mentions these characters as likely not returning... Which almost backs up the fact.Toadbrigade5 (talk) 21:51, 11 September 2014 (EDT)

Too much leaks. I will think that in the future they will only increase.
 * Leak: I really don't know what to do with this. The wiki doesn't cover fanmade (otherwise like half of the articles will be fanon), but this story really needs a citation. What to do... rumors page? It seems a good idea.
 * DLCs: we can't be 100% sure. It is very likely the guy was right (and I think so), but he may had only a great luck (though unlikely, he had short gameplay). Well, so I see that someone is already disappointed by the 6 missing characters (me too, why cutting off Mewtwo?), but at this point it is likely that Nintendo, in the future, may release DLCs, just like they did with MK8.
 * Another thing: The SmashWiki has this. If you don't want to check the link, it is about a tweet that says (Japanese) "Don't forget to add Geno from Super Mario RPG, Isaac from Golden Sun and Mega Man". Sakurai responded "2 out of 3", but the Tweet was deleted. Mega Man is in, but how about Geno and Isaac? At this point, I will think that hacks for including Geno again (already did for Brawl) will show up. It could also be not deleted but hided, or instead was an hacker's post. Or maybe it was the truth and either Geno (unlikely though, it is copyrighted by Square) or Isaac are still to be found by anyone. But since I see someone already have the game, maybe it will just took a while to unlock everything, like, a week. But at the end, only Nintendo knows.


 * Its not six missing characters, the chorus kids never appeared before. I agree with you the guy is right, but Geno? Geno doesn't even belong to nintendo, appear only once in a single game, so... Sorry, don't keep your hopes too high.Toadbrigade5 (talk) 19:30, 12 September 2014 (EDT)
 * But it seemed well received (I like more Mallow though)... and it also appeared in Superstar Saga. Everything could happen, like the Koopalings, that were left after Superstar Saga and now are the stars of the moment, starting racing and smashing.

New stages
An F-zreo and earthbound stage have been shown on a stream. Luckly this article caught them, http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/137378-Super-Smash-Bros-3DS-Fan-Streaming-Early-Gameplay-Character-Leaks - Cubeguy(talk)

Stream
I watched part of the Stream (like 15 minutes). Here's some things 100% true (I don't lie):
 * Wario is officially confirmed. I watched it, and his Final Smash turns it again in WarioMan. Apparently Smashers can break the fourth wall by hitting the screen when launched out. Too bad I didn't get any pic, I didn't know how Twitch works yet.
 * This is the roster as of now: SSB43DSChar.png The quality sucks, but it shows you some characters. Though, R.O.B. wasn't unlocked yet, so it's likely those things will soon cover the whole screen. In the center-low-right, we probabily have the Duck Hunt dog and Ness, but I'm not sure. The text is "READY TO FIGHT" (yep, slightly italic, also reddish).
 * This, instead, is the roster of stages: SSB43DSStage.png I have not paritcolar comments, but I think that the unlockables will soon full the screen up.
 * I have a screenshot of one that in the chat says "Ridleay appears at 1000, my uncle told me. He's Nintendo." This is probabily a normal fanon comment, but who knows? BTW, 1000 is about the stages. You should have to do 1000 rounds to APPARENTLY unlock him. Though, you can do a round just by suiciding, so if you keep dying by falling, you should do round fastly.


 * Apparently all the characters listed are the final roster, on one of the streams after unlocking R.O.B another message came up congratulating the player for unlocking all characters. But Ridley should appear as a stage boss as he is in the game. - Cubeguy2ver.pnguy(talk)
 * I am now sure that is the message I hate more. So Geno didn't make it... probabily that Tweet thing is fake, or either Isaac or Geno makes an appearence as unplayable, like cameo or boss. I still don't know a thing... why lefting some space at the angle? It could be easily filled, two characters aren't a lot.
 * I do agree that leaving spaces on the character roster is odd for a smash game, this could possibly be the DLC or some characters didn't make the final cut. - Cubeguy2ver.pnguy(talk)
 * Completely agreed, but 2 characters for a DLC is a not enough. Unless they shrunk the icons, of course. Or maybe they are planning adding a lot of stages. Still there are costumes (Koopalings, Alph... everyone could be hiding).
 * Wouldn't it be 4 spaces? cause it seems to be 4 spaces. - Cubeguy2ver.pnguy(talk) P.S i meant 6 spaces, plus the Mii player option isnt available on the character menu for multiplayer, theres an option for it before hand though. - Cubeguy2ver.pnguy(talk)

Boss listings
Do we plan to list the boss's how we did with Brawl? - Cubeguy(talk)
 * Why the heck not?

Unlocking Wario
Wario's unlocking criteria is listed as Clearing the 100-Man Mode. However, in YouTuber Yoshiller's video, he clears Classic mode with Rosalina beginning at intensity 9.0 and is able to unlock Wario. Is it possible that there are more ways to unlock other characters? MarioComix (talk) 02:06, 14 September 2014 (EDT)
 * Very possible, considering that Brawl has multiple ways to unlock certain characters (for instance, you can unlock Ness by reflecting 10 projectiles, playing 5 VS matches, or saving him in the Subspace Emissary). But the footage isn't enough, since we don't know the specific criteria for that method. 03:20, 14 September 2014 (EDT)

Shadow Boss
After beating Master hand in Classic mode a third boss turns up, the criteria for battling it i don't know. But according to some its name is Master Core. I'll list it as this until its fully confirmed. - Cubeguy(talk)
 * OK, so SmashWiki is advanced. It already has this, with FULL DESCRIPTION! Learn more, and be disappointed from the end... and the info seems pretty reliable. Looks like we should be based from SmashWiki.

Difficult rating
Please check all the 3 pics! Just wanted to point up the Trivia I put... This "Pot of Doom" appeared in Uprising to increase difficulty of chapters. The system was paying Hearts (in SSB speaking, Gold) to increase or decrease difficulty. 2.0 is the normal one. You can decrease from 1.9 to 0.0 by paying Hearts (read as Gold in Smash language, OK?), and increase from 2.1 to 9.0. The following pic explains. See? The difference is a lot. I have to admit, 9.0 is very very though in Uprising. If you die the difficulty goes down by 1.0 normally. And when I tried it, I died twice, almost by the boss. Now, see this... I see, Mario got once more corrupted by gold. :) The bottom screen holds all the info regarding Gold (plus a Link throphy, unknown I think). I see, the meter of its own didn't change much. Maybe now the normal is 3.0, but I'm not sure, neither it's confirmed (someone should buy a Japanese copy). The most notable difference is that the meter is slightly expanded at sides and the 9.0 is purple instead of red. This means it goes further? Who knows, but I think a 10.0 will not harm.

Also, the system goes 0.0 to 9.0 just like in Uprising, and the image on the superior screen changes.
 * In Uprising, it shows more enemies but also more treasures at the sides.
 * In SSB4, it shows a devil that changes color based on the difficulty (and also aspect, the harder the bigger) and the playable character more determined to confront it. Also the chest at the sides contains more (I assume).

Jigglypuff's Palette Swaps and Gender
Two of the eight palette swaps Jigglypuff receives are duplicates of Nurse Joy's cap and Serena's red hat with sun glasses from Pokémon X and Y. Could I add this to the trivia section on Jigglypuff's article? Secondly, I cannot track nor remember the sources however I read that all of the Pokémon representatives receive genders: Pikachu, Gredinja, Charizard, and Lucario being male and Jigglypuff being female. User:FireFlower
 * At this point we should make a giant table that lists all costumes (NOT palette swaps, they are complete change of color). I manted to make it early, but now we need it. No, no trivia at all. I think about listing the costumes on the respective articles too.
 * Then it ought to be started. There is a video that shows all of the character swaps and all of the alternate character costumes. I believe we should use that as a source since it provides all the information that we need. User:FireFlower
 * What is it? Also, retailer lists Wii U versions for 21st November, proof

Character unlocking criteria
YouTuber Yoshiller has uploaded more videos of his Classic mode playthrough, and it really puts into question the character unlocking criteria. He's used Yoshi to unlock Lucina, Little Mac to unlock Jigglypuff, Bowser Jr. to unlock Duck Hunt, Wario to unlock Ganondorf, and Mii Fighter to unlock Mr. Game & Watch. This really calls into question the unlocking criteria for at least these characters, so I think further investigation is needed for this matter. MarioComix (talk) 04:41, 15 September 2014 (EDT)
 * Are they in order? This time I'm pretty sure an hacker is needed to browse through the criteria. What we need? Everyone, try a random character in Classic mode and see what you unlock. They, though, may be at random just like in MK8.

Question
I have see on YouTube that the unlockable characters must be challenging and defeated for be unlocked in the first criteria. But in the second criteria (after have play a number of matches), they are unlocked without be challenging or not ?

109.213.21.127 16:07, 15 September 2014 (EDT)