MarioWiki:Proposals

Writing guidelines
None at the moment.

New features
None at the moment.

Delete the bonuses pages from the Super Smash Bros. series
Considering our limiting coverage of the Smash series, List of bonuses in Super Smash Bros. and List of bonuses in Super Smash Bros. Melee both seem relevant here. Our coverage is near-identical to the SmashWiki, and these pages are certainly not important enough to justify the separate pages, considering how less than five mainspace pages link to them in total. I'm also not particularly interested in merging them to the game pages; that'll add too much bloat which isn't worth it for, again, information that isn't important enough. No information is being lost here: we can link to the SmashWiki and absolutely nothing will be different.

Proposer: Deadline: November 15, 2018, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) Per proposal.
 * 2) I'm per it, until I see newer comments.
 * 3) I opposed the last proposal over this because it fit into our full coverage of Smash Bros. at the time, but since that has been changed, I don’t really see a reason to keep these pages.
 * 4) I agree, SSB coverage could be simplified here as much as possible.
 * 5) As long as relevant bonuses are incorporated into their respective articles, now that the coverage has been limited, this is not explicitly needed much longer. Per all, TheFlameChomp especially.
 * 6) Per all
 * 7) As long as they turn into redirects, it's fine.

Merge Category:Personal images in use and Category:Personal images abandoned into Category:Personal images
Hi this is my first proposal. Something that has bugged me is that "Personal images in use" is not under the more simplified title "Personal images" (which is its master category title). The only explanation I can think of is because of the category "Personal images abandoned". If a personal image is unused or abandoned, I believe it is eligible for deletion. Plus there's no images under that category. If this proposal passes, I think its associated template can also be deleted.

Proposer: Deadline: November 13, 2018, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) - I started this proposal.
 * 2) - Per proposal. I was thinking personal-image-abandoned could be incorporated into the personal-image template, but that'd be kind of pointless if we can just replace the thing with.
 * 3) Maybe instead mark  as  (haha, irony), but other than that, it seems that this is a change I can live with. Per proposal.
 * 4) Per all.
 * 5) Per all.
 * Eh, don't see the point of even marking personal images as abandoned as a good old delete/to be deleted template should do.
 * 1) Per all.

Oppose

 * 1) I've found some neat stuff in the personal-image-abandoned category in the slightly longer time frame they'd have before deletion, and as such I believe the template itself has merit. As that's part of the proposal, I'm opposing the whole thing.
 * 2) Per Schmeltwick.
 * 3) Per Doc. Also see my comment below.
 * 4) Per all.

Comments
The personal image limit is five, so even if you did find an image in the personal images abandoned category, that's one of the five personal images. Would not really be useful to keep around anyway, so.. Results May Vary (talk) 10:07, 7 November 2018 (EST)
 * If they get merged, do they at least will be redirects? -- 14:15, 7 November 2018 (EST)
 * Can't say since i'm not an admin. But the main point is that there isn't a need for more than one personal images category. If it's abandoned, it will show up in Special:UnusedFiles anyway (and be tagged simply Personal images if the proposal passes). Results May Vary (talk) 14:57, 7 November 2018 (EST)
 * @Results May Vary: The image only appears in Special:UnusedFiles if it's abandoned for more than a day, which is not likely to happen as admins usally delete things which are marked for deletion in maximum a few hours. 15:06, 7 November 2018 (EST)
 * Just because you don't think it's useful doesn't mean someone else won't. They're personal images for a reason. And you need to stop deleting them just because they've been replaced on the mainspace. That's rude. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 19:40, 7 November 2018 (EST)
 * Using the template will just place the image in Category:To be deleted anyway. I don't see a need for the abandoned template if it just does the exact same thing as the standard  template with a reason saying "Abandoned PI".
 * As for personal images being replaced, I look over whether they're worth keeping or not (factors include if other images on their page have been deleted, the user hasn't been active in several years, and/or they've exceeded the limit).  19:46, 7 November 2018 (EST)
 * He was putting images of at least one semi-active user in the deletion category. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 20:01, 7 November 2018 (EST)
 * At the moment, the guy has six custom images attributed to him (more than the limit), due to the personal image template linking to his renamed account and his original name. The images that were deleted were replaced with a higher quality version of images that can be used in the mainspace, so he can replace those on his pages if he wants. 20:08, 7 November 2018 (EST)
 * I'd still consider this behavior a slippery slope, myself, and encouraging it's just pushing it further. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 20:11, 7 November 2018 (EST)
 * Probably, but like I said, I do go over the images marked for deletion, as do the other admins. If something should be kept, we'll keep it, but if there's any mistakes, it can be brought up on our talk pages. 20:14, 7 November 2018 (EST)
 * Any accidental deletions can usually be restored (unless the thing itself is entirely purged from the server), so I don't think we even have to worry about accidental deletions. I don't find "but there's neat stuff in there" that compelling of an argument to keep that abandoned template. 21:34, 7 November 2018 (EST)

Create pages with renditions of recognizable music themes
I think I've seen a few people around here entertain the idea of making distinct pages for themes that are very notable, such as the Ground and Underground themes from Super Mario Bros. or the DK Jungle Swing theme from Donkey Kong Country. However, I do not have deep knowledge in music theory to analyse them, but I want to start something of this kind, so I have an alternative: making list pages that comprise all music based on a particular famous theme from the Mario franchise. They'd look similar to those media file pages we already have and the tracks would be listed by the games they appear in.

This way, it would be easier to browse different renditions of a theme for anyone interested, on pages that can be updated at the blink of an eye. Not to mention that such themes are definitely worth covering on their own in some way.

However, there is one rule: the theme must be renditioned in at least 8 games, not counting remakes or reissues. Any renditions made for a remake, such as the Overworld theme from the Super Mario All-Stars version of Super Mario Bros., will be added as an aside. The pages should also describe the changes in each rendition.

To start off, we could take the following themes in consideration (as per 's comment below):
 * All themes from Super Mario Bros. I mean, you know they all appeared in some form in at least 10+ games as of now.
 * Overworld theme from Super Mario Bros. 2. It appeared in the Mario vs. Donkey Kong series with multiple variations.
 * DK Island Swing from Donkey Kong Country. It can be heard in DKC2, DK64, Smash, Mario Kart 7 and 8, Mario Super Sluggers etc.
 * The Slider theme from Super Mario 64. It can be heard in Super Mario Galaxy 2, Super Mario 3D World, Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker.


 * Super Mario Bros. overworld theme
 * Super Mario Bros. cave theme
 * Super Mario Bros. invincibility theme
 * Donkey Kong Country Jungle Hijinks (DK Island Swing)
 * Super Mario 64 Peach's Castle theme

If you can think of any more, or if you want to discuss the ones I listed, please leave a comment.

Proposer: Deadline: November 16, 2018, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) per proposal
 * 2) As themes with lyrics such as Mike's Theme haves pages, I do agree that common music themes should have pages such as the ones mentioned above, even if they do not have lyrics.Per proposal.
 * 3) Per proposal and my addition; I must emphasize that these should not be simple lists of media files, but be actual articles interlaced with media files. (Also I'll finally have an excuse to finish the music theme navtemplate)
 * 4) Per all.
 * 5) Per all.
 * 6) Per all.
 * 7) Per all.
 * 8) Per all.
 * 9) Per all.

Comments
The regulation I came up with was "Must appear in at least 8 games, not counting remakes/reissues." The themes I had come up with were as follows:
 * Super Mario Bros. overworld theme
 * Super Mario Bros. cave theme
 * Super Mario Bros. invincibility theme
 * Super Mario Bros. 3 fortress theme
 * Super Mario Bros. 3 boss theme
 * Super Mario Bros. 3 airship theme
 * Donkey Kong Country Jungle Hijinks (DK Island Swing)
 * Super Mario 64 Peach's Castle theme
 * Super Mario 64 Secret Slide theme

As for your first point, the SMB1 castle theme very rarely has recurred. If this regulation is added, I will gladly support. The pages, however, must entail changes in composition throughout the games, for instance, noting how the instrumentation changes and how later arrangements may add secondary melodies. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:18, 9 November 2018 (EST)
 * I will add this rule to the proposal because it seems reasonable, but I'm curious if there is a basis for the choice of 8 or more themes. -- 18:32, 9 November 2018 (EST)
 * It's not too little, but it's still easily-countable. I was considering what counted as "notable enough for x" as being a similar case to my enemy table addition to the Super Mario series page. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:36, 9 November 2018 (EST)
 * Oh god, if we are to actually analyze the music, I can already see the blue "rewrite-expand" hell that's gonna plague these articles 0_o but I'll try to contribute on that. -- 18:46, 9 November 2018 (EST)
 * I can do it, as long as I am directed to the renditions from the MP, sports, and other miscellaneous subseries I don't buy into. I've composed before. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:48, 9 November 2018 (EST)
 * That's good, very good :) -- 19:13, 9 November 2018 (EST)
 * Oh right, an additional reason for the amount: music can be a bit of a sue-trigger for copyright holders, so I didn't want too many pages focused on individual themes. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:52, 9 November 2018 (EST)

I've compiled a list of at least eight games for each proposed theme (just off the tip of my tongue, since, you know, I have a doctorate in Mariology), and some of them don't reach the quota. Please add more games to the themes that are listed as not ok, if they exist. For now I remove those with an insufficient number of games from the proposal. Mind you, some renditions are used across several games and are counted as one.


 * Super Mario Bros. overworld theme (OK) – Super Mario Bros.; Super Mario Bros. 2; Super Mario World; Super Mario Sunshine; New Super Mario Bros. games; Super Mario 3D Land; Super Mario Odyssey; Super Smash Bros. series etc.
 * Super Mario Bros. cave theme (OK) – Super Mario Bros.; Super Mario Bros. 3; Super Mario 64 (as Hazy Maze Cave); Super Mario Galaxy; Super Mario 3D Land; Super Mario 3D World; Super Mario Odyssey; Super Smash Bros. series etc.
 * Super Mario Bros. invincibility theme (OK) – Super Mario Bros.; Super Mario Bros. 2; Super Mario Bros. 3; Super Mario World; Yoshi's Island; Super Mario 64 (as the theme for the cap power-ups) and New Super Mario Bros.; Super Mario Galaxy; New Super Mario Bros. Wii; New Super Mario Bros. 2; New Super Mario Bros. U etc.
 * Super Mario Bros. 3 fortress theme (NOT OK) – Super Mario Bros. 3
 * Super Mario Bros. 3 boss theme (NOT OK) – Super Mario Bros. 3; New Super Mario Bros.; New Super Mario Bros. Wii; New Super Mario Bros. 2; New Super Mario Bros. U; Super Smash Bros. Ultimate
 * Super Mario Bros. 3 airship theme (NOT OK) – Super Mario Bros. 3; Super Mario Galaxy; New Super Mario Bros. Wii; New Super Mario Bros. U; Super Mario 3D Land, Paper Mario: Sticker Star, Super Smash Bros. series
 * Donkey Kong Country Jungle Hijinks (DK Island Swing) (OK) – Donkey Kong Country; Donkey Kong Country 2; Donkey Kong 64; Super Smash Bros. Melee; Donkey Kong Jungle Beat; Mario Super Sluggers; Donkey Kong Country Returns; Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze etc.
 * Super Mario 64 Peach's Castle theme (OK) – Super Mario 64; Donkey Kong Country 3; Mario Super Sluggers; Mario vs. Donkey Kong: Mini-Land Mayhem!; New Super Mario Bros. Wii; New Super Mario Bros. U; Mario vs. Donkey Kong: Tipping Stars; Super Mario Odyssey etc.
 * Super Mario 64 Secret Slide theme (NOT OK) – Super Mario 64; Super Smash Bros. Melee; Super Mario Galaxy 2; Paper Mario: Sticker Star; Super Mario 3D World; Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker


 * You're only listing the Super Mario games in many cases. There's also the other subseries and the Smash Bros games, in which many of these appear. The later Mario & Sonic games have an additional amount of arrangements that many people don't even know about. The airship page actually lists the times its own theme appears. Furthermore, I'm counting different games using the exact same tune without arrangements as different games. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 19:18, 9 November 2018 (EST)
 * I did list the Smash series for some of these. Again, if you have anything new, add them. As for the last bit, I don't see why we shouldn't peg identical themes together. -- 19:27, 9 November 2018 (EST)
 * Because every time the original SMB ground theme reappears in a faux-retro area, it's a separate occurrence, innit? Also, please remember that the Rainbow Cruise theme is additionally an arrangement of the Secret Slide theme. And the SMB3 fortress theme appears in literally every NSMB game, as well as TTYD. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 19:30, 9 November 2018 (EST)
 * I wouldn't say so. I'd rather the section with the original SMB theme simply mention which games it appears in as a facsimile. The super star theme from Smash, for example, is exactly the same as in SMB. And the SMB3 fortress theme, while veeery similar in tone to the NSMB and NSMB Wii version, has different notes. -- 19:38, 9 November 2018 (EST)
 * Nah, other than slowing parts of it down, it's not any more substantially different from any other arranged song. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 20:19, 9 November 2018 (EST)

Another recognizable song is the N64 Rainbow Road song. But it only has 7 games, one of which isn't a Mario game: Mario Kart 64 (original), F-Zero X (due to that track being playable in that game), Mario Kart: Double Dash, Mario Kart 7 (both of these had it used for their Rainbow Roads), Mario Kart 8 (due to it being a retro track), New Super Mario Bros. Wii (as part of World 9 theme), and Paper Mario: Color Splash (as part of going onto that rainbow road). However, the info is already on the N64 Rainbow Road page (which is where I got all this info from). 19:46, 9 November 2018 (EST)

If we're giving articles for recurring themes, I think they should use the names they were given in various soundtracks and other official sources, with the original game as the identifier if there are multiple of that type, e.g. Also, and I brought this up on Doc's talk page a while back, while we also have the lists of song appearances, I think it'd be good to add some information on the history and making of the song at the top of the page, if available. 20:11, 9 November 2018 (EST)
 * Ground Theme (Super Mario Bros.) - Super Mario History 1985-2010 soundtrack, Smash 3DS/Wii U in-game and soundtrack
 * Underground Theme (Super Mario Bros.) - Smash 3DS/Wii U in-game and soundtrack
 * Invincibility Theme - No sources I can find; conjectural title, maybe?
 * Fortress BGM (Super Mario Bros. 3) - 30th anniversary soundtrack
 * Fortress Boss (Super Mario Bros. 3) - Smash Ultimate
 * Airship Theme - Smash Bros.
 * DK Island Swing - Original soundtrack title
 * Inside the Castle Walls - Original soundtrack title
 * Slider - Original soundtrack title
 * The Smash games just call it the invincibility theme, don't they? Sure, it's a later variation, but it's a more generic name than say, Powerful Infant. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 20:19, 9 November 2018 (EST)
 * I don't recall it being given a name since it was never an individual song in the Sound Test, at least in Brawl and 3DS/Wii U since those are the only ones I've played. 20:28, 9 November 2018 (EST)
 * I was pretty sure it was in the Smash or misc sections.... Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 21:52, 9 November 2018 (EST)


 * The slider theme is in the M&S games, different versions in both Rio and Sochi. So, that fills in 8 games unambiguously. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:06, 10 November 2018 (EST)

Despite not meeting the criteria, I think the airship theme and slide theme (and maybe the SMB3 boss theme?) should still be considered, considering how iconic they are, along with the theme that plays in the SM64 Bowser levels. -- 10:24, 10 November 2018 (EST)
 * I would personally agree with at least the airship theme, as it appears in almost every game that airships appear in, including Super Mario Run, which doesn’t seem to have been mentioned here or on the airship page (it's the same as New Super Mario Bros. Wiis, but so is New Super Mario Bros. Us). -- 10:40, 10 November 2018 (EST)

The Chill and Fever themes from Dr.Mario should get articles too, as they appeared in multiple smash games as well as the Dr.Mario series games.--Doomhiker (talk) 10:53, 10 November 2018 (EST)