Talk:Koopa Troopa

Why are these MK-related items (Red Homing Shell, Green Shell, Blue Shell) under a section of Koopa Troopa? Those are items that should have their own pages. Wayoshi ( T&middot;C&middot;@ ) 15:25, 31 August 2006 (EDT)
 * Long ago, in the early days of this Wiki, some users decided that it would be better to place info of items related to species in the articles. Those days should end now. I think we should seperate the items from the species page. They are related, but both are distinct enough to have their own pages. -- Son of Suns

Stats for Every Koopa
I think the Paper Mario stats for every Koopa should be erased from this page and be placed in the appropriate article. It is really unneccesary to have the stats for each character and sub-species when the articles themselves already have those stats. -- Son of Suns

Specie vs. Character
Should there be an article for the Koopa character (the Koopa in Super Mario Kart, Mario Golf: Toadstool Tour and others) and the Koopa Troopa species like Yoshi and Yoshi (species)? Paper Jorge

I need an answer please. Paper Jorge

No not really. Why not create a separate page for Boo and Shy Guy? Toad and Yoshi are an exception because they have have some purpose as an individual characters. We can't really write anything about the character Koopa Troopa can we? There is not enough info about him other than he appears playable in Mario Sports games.

The Koopa Troopa playable character is just a generic Koopa Troopa. Toad, on the other hand, is the specific name of a Toad. Same with Yoshi. Thus we don't need another Koopa Troopa article. -- Son of Suns

What Is With That Picture?
I am deleting The top picture for Koopa Troopa because it is fanart and not a help to the wiki. Whoever put that picture there in the first place should be given a warning. So there!--PeteyPiranhaLover 22:16, 12 December 2006 (EST)

It is not fanart. Paper Jorge

But if it's not fanart, then what is it from?--PeteyPiranhaLover 22:30, 12 December 2006 (EST)

I believe it is from Super Mario Bros. 3. Always ask before removing images please! Paper Jorge

Ya don't hafta ask ta delete pictures- you don't even hafta replace em'.

Is not possible
Separate the types of shell in the article about koopas species is very difficult, because Shell, Koopa Shell, Spiny Shell, Red, or Green Shell, are linked with the central article. --Coincollector 19:04, 2 January 2007 (EST)Coincollector

Actually it's possible. When you click on a link of those it will redirect you here, BUT! It will say REDIRECTED FROM (Article Name). Click on (Article Name) and then edit and...confusing. Paper Jorge

The only way to quit this confusing classification is to dump the redirections and become them as own articles.--Coincollector 19:12, 2 January 2007 (EST)Coincollector

Who changed my description?!
WHO changed my picture description and its place of the koopa from the Super Mario Bros. Super Show? - Super Yoshi10
 * Does it matter?
 * The wiki can be edited by everyone, and changes have to be applied. You cannot count on that something you did in April (!) still is unchanged in the article. - 09:20, 3 October 2007 (EDT)

Sub-Species?
We really need to sort out what this means. I think Magikoopas and Hammer Bros. should be considered different species from Koopa Troopas, as they have many notable physical differences from Troopas. However, while Paratroopas are different too, they can loose their wings and become normal Koopa Troopas, so what does that make them? I'll agree with calling them sub-species, same with Ankoopas and whatnot, but what about Colossal Koopa Paratroopas? Its a subspecies of a subspecies, so should it really be listed in this article? - Walkazo
 * I wouldn't consider Paratroopas to be a subspecies. They are just normal Koopas who have wings. I feel the same way about Ankoopas, they are just Koopa Troopas who are bigger.Although it's fine to include them there for clairty's sake. Goomb-omb

Hammer Bro. is a seperate species as it has sub-species like Boomerang Bro. However, if all sub-species are counted, Magikoopas would be Koopas because in Partners in Time Kamek says that the Mario Bros. are starting to "chap his shell", although it could be just a saying. Also, Yoshis saddles were once considered shells.

Edited Name Section
I edited the name section a bit to fix some grammar mistakes. Mumbles 15:45, 31 May 2008 (EDT)

Other Apperances
Is two sections for "Other Appearances" REALLY necessary? Kobble

"Other Appearances in Media" and "Other Appearances" are different, but I think the media one should be changed to simply "Appearances in Media". 16:31, 2 June 2008 (EDT)

Yeah, I agree with the name "Appearances in Media". But the second paragraph needs to be deleted, since it's the exact same paragraph stated in "Other Appearances". Kobble

Quote
No offense to whoever found this quote, but could we add a different one? I don't think that Koopa Troopa's love of golf is one of their defining characteristics of the species. Goomb-omb 19:56, 12 June 2008 (EDT)

Noknok shell
Does the Japanese name give the name of SMRPG's Noknok shell? Binks 15:35, 13 September 2008 (EDT)

Not true!
The headline "Fire Sale" needs to be changed because the koopa troopas do make an appearance in The Adventures of the Super Mario Bros. 3 in the episode "Do the Koopa"! --Count b 20:26, 9 February 2009 (EST)Count b
 * You can go ahead and fix it, if you want! ;)

Koopa redirect
I've noticed that a lot of members of the koopa troop, Magikoopas, Hammer Bros, Spiny, and even Bowser are referred to as Koopas which in this wiki redirects to Koopa Troopa. Now Bowser and Spiny are definitely not Koopa Troopas. Should we have a separate article about all "koopa" species, or is that unnecessary since Koopa Troop and Koopa Troopa both provide a lot of information? Either that, or could Koopa redirect to Koopa Troop instead? Sorry if I am being nitpicky :(


 * Personally, I'd like to see "Koopa" be an article in its own right too. A while ago, I actually separated and  for this very idea - as you said, Bowser is not a Koopa Troopa. But the problem is that Nintendo is absolutely horrendous at providing specific terms for us to cling to (i.e. Bowser has no official species name, so we have nowhere to put him), so we're stuck using the quintessential Koopa Troopa as a proxy for a page dedicated to "Koopas" as a whole. Putting the general information on the Koopa Troop page wouldn't do because it's a military organization, and thus, does not represent all Koopas; it also includes non-Koopas, and many species some would consider Koopas while others wouldn't (i.e. Clubbas). Also, creating a stand-alone "Koopa" page runs the risk of turning out like the horrendous  page: it smashes together snippets of information from various sources and tries to make it seem like one big unit, but fails miserably. Similarly a "Koopa" page would be expected to have notes on Koopa culture and Koopa history, which, given what we have to work on, will turn out as fragmented as the Alien page. The only thing we could do is lists of notable Koopas and of the species, though like I said before, stating what is and isn't a Koopa may not be as black an white as one would hope. Lists are disappointing to most readers, but anything more would be more original research than hard facts, which is frowned upon here; we'll have to cite everything to make it credible, and that's something most users don't seem to be up for. It'd be a huge undertaking, but if it's done right, I think it'd be worth it. -  01:37, 29 June 2009 (EDT)
 * i think it would be worthwhile too! i would sure make it a priority of mine, at least :)
 * It's on my to-do list as well... But my list is rather long and I like procrastinating, so it might be a while before I get down there... If you do tackle it, make sure you create a sub-page ( "User:YourName/SubpageTitle" ) of what you plan to make the Koopa page about, and then Propose is, before taking any Mainspace action. Big changes need community approval, and this would be a big change. - 19:14, 29 June 2009 (EDT)

Actually, Bowser IS a Koopa Troopa. He has the same skin/scales and has a shell. Well, sort of. His shell looks like a green Spiny (if they even exist) so, technically, Bowser is a cross of Spiny and Koopa Troopa, so he could be both.
 * This discussion, along with the one you replied to above, is an old, resolved discussion. Please don't revive these discussions in these sections without a very good reason.

Missing
There needs to be a section about them in New Super Mario Bros. Wii.

Red Koopa Troopa
should we create a Red Koopa Troopa page since we have those toad ones (Blue Toad & Yellow Toad) (Mario200 08:06, 26 October 2009 (EDT))

YES. PLEASE. There needs to be a different page for Red Koopa Troopas, Blue ones, and possibly Yellow ones. Krizzy 03:33, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
 * The Blue and Yellow Toads got separate pages because they are specific characters, not because they were different colour morphs, as would be the case with having these Koopa Troopa pages. The four types of Koopas are too similar to bother with pages: there's only differences in a small handful of the games they appear in, which means most of the pages will be carbon copies of each other (or left as stubs merely detailing the difference and redirecting back to the main Koopa Troopa page for the bulk of the coverage). Sorry, it's not happening. - 04:29, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Yes. 17:58, 4 May 2011 (EDT)

Yes,please do create one,they are significantly different and have different abilities just like Yoshis
 * Not without a TPP, but I still advise agaisnt splitting this page. - 16:01, 22 May 2011 (EDT)

Yeah, they need their own pages 'cuz even their SHELLS work differently in the Mario Kart series.

Regarding notable members
I don't think Lakitu, Bowser and the Koopalings are Koopa Troopas. Just looking at their shells makes it apparent they're an entirely different species from the Troopa.--vellidragon 11:39, 4 December 2009 (EST)
 * I agree with you on Lakitu but what species for Bowser and the Koopalings would you suggest? They have to have a species
 * I don't think any particular species to which Bowser and the Koopalings would belong has ever been named. Fact is though that aside from the fact they're turtle-like creatures, they don't resemble Koopa Troopas, and imo the list of notable Koopa Troopas should only include characters that actually resemble the enemy to a big enough degree to recognise them as probably belonging to the same species.--vellidragon 12:35, 4 December 2009 (EST)
 * I think they should stay there until we define a species for them.
 * Read my latest comment on your proposal. I'm thinking a fair way to go about it would be to bump the Koopa Troopas down a notch, and, rather than have them be the "main" species all other Koopas are spun off of, Koopa Troopas, Spikes, Bowser/the Koopalings, etc. would all be listed under the species "Koopa tribe". Redstar 12:51, 4 December 2009 (EST)

Bowser isn't a Koopa, but that is his last name, which confuses people and makes them think he is a Koopa. No, that's speculation. Kelton2 Supermariofan I GOTTA PEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! User: Kelton2!!! 18:18, 8 February 2012 (EST) 18:18, 8 February 2012 (EST)

Technically Bowser is a Koopa, but he's not a Koopa Troopa. There's a number of different varieties of Koopa. (And important to note that the "Koopa Tribe" is called the "Turtle Tribe" in Japan. If Bowser is a turtle, then that technically makes him a Koopa in English.) Vent (talk) 17:34, 23 February 2013 (EST)

DDR:Mario Mix
This article seems to be lacking info from Dance Dance Revolution. Can someone put some info up?--

I don't have the game so I can't.-- 17:56, 4 May 2011 (EDT)

What kind of info is needed? I have the game.

Comparisons of other characters
I'm pretty sure Koopa Troopas do seem to look fragglish to me. Those ones are different but they may not have the same things on them. I compared them by myself but they look like something else.--Mickey 20:03, 29 February 2012 (EST)

Shellcreepers
Why are shellcreepers here if they aren't actually koopa troopas? I get that thay share a strong resemblance, but they should have their own page right?
 * They do Shellcreeper.

But why do they have their own page AND are on the koopa troopa page?
 * Because it's a point of reference because Shellcreepers were the inspiration for Koopa Troopas.

Thanks for clearing it up! ;D

In nintendo seiries. :)

It's less that they were the "inspiration" for them so much as they directly led to their creation. Vent (talk) 17:32, 23 February 2013 (EST)

SML2 koopas
It says that it is unknown what color the koopa troopas in SML2 are due to the game being in black and white, but the answer should be obvious-ones that wall off ledges are green and ones that turn around are red (I haven't played SML2 in a long time and can't remember if it has both kinds.)198.228.201.168
 * They're most likely green anyway. If there are different colored Koopas, the red-shelled ones would be darker (or the green-shelled ones lighter) to accommodate the lack of color in the games. 03:01, 3 December 2013 (EST)

Split Red Koopa Troopa and Green Koopa Troopa
Red and Green Koopa Troopa have been distinctly different throughout the entire history of the Mario series, the shell governing if they would turn around or not. They even have different stats in the sports games (e.g. Mario Super Sluggers). This alone is already a big difference, and isn't a matter of Toad color. It would stay consistent with having a Gold Goomba, Goombrat, etc. where the differences were enough to have its own article. Also, the ongoing Pokey proposal here would lead me to believe this is a good idea.

The only question left would be where this article would go. I say we do what we did with Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS / Wii U, and have the general page and two specific ones. That way, the information in this page doesn't get lost, and if someone wants to learn about a Koopa Troopa in general, they still can. If that idea isn't popular, I've given an alternative choice as well.

Proposer: Deadline: April 8, 2015, at 23:59 GMT.

Support (Keeping original article)

 * 1) Per everything I said above.
 * 2) Per Proposal, although I am writing one for roughly (and more purposes) the same purpose currently exceeding 60 pages. I doubt it will be done by the time this proposal is due, but I'll just help anyway.

Oppose

 * 1) As I've said before, there's a difference between a species and a variant. And the thing is, where does this end? Do we split two-legged and four-legged Koopas? Different colored Goombas? Every single Pokey redesign throughout the series? Do we split Spookum and Snifit because one has a black robe? Or Spike Top (Paper Mario) from Spike Top because of the shell color? It's sloppy and confusing, and overall, unnecessary.
 * 2) - Every grey area split or merge is a case-by-case thing, and in this case, it's too much: they're completely interchangeable in a number of appearances (i.e. Strikers and the PM games iirc), while others (i.e. Sluggers) are likely individuals having different stats rather than the colour morphs as a whole. Besides, splitting them based on shell colour is starting down a very slippery slope: shell colours is variable in many Koopas, and if we split this, then we'll be splitting the yellow and blue ones based on the SMW, and then every other colour too for consistency, and then all the other species with multiple shell colours: forget making one Dragon-Koopa page, clearly all the Kooaplings are their own unique species. Plus, it's also a lot clearer to have all the information in one central location, rather than basically repeating most of it two or more times, and forcing people to look around at multiple pages to get the full story is a hassle for readers and writers alike.
 * 3) Per Walky. No offense, but I legitimately thought this was either ironic or a joke proposal before I clicked on it.
 * 4) Per Walky.
 * 5) First, per all. Second, is this a joke?
 * 6) Per all.
 * 7) Per all
 * 8) I don't appreciate the dismissive attitude because you can technically make a point that two enemies that look different and behave differently should be given separate articles. After all, Mario RPGs aren't shy of the recolored enemy RPG trope. If you look at just the platformers and the Baseball games, you could make a case for a split (although the Baseball is an extremely weak case since stat changes associated with color swaps are common). But no, they appear in several interchangeable roles in spinoffs, nonvideo game media, and other things, as Walkazo said. Despite this, one could argue that we also have colored Yoshis that are given separate articles, but they have different, distinct roles in Yoshi's Story mainly. Walkazo's Koopalings sounds like a strawman because we don't even know what specific species they are, and since they are apparently siblings, it's assumed that they're the same species anyway, so it's more clear-cut here. Anyway, if you're considering splitting the Koopa colors, you might as well split the Snifit and Birdo(!) colors too. Minor behavior differences tied to color variants aren't limited to Koopa Troopas, you know?
 * 9) This stays here so, per everyone.
 * 10) Per all.

Comments
For years I've said some variant of "next time someone will suggest to split red koopa from green koopa" on proposal comments as a joke about ever loosening article standards and now it's actually happening --Glowsquid (talk) 13:23, 25 March 2015 (EDT)
 * I'm pretty sure this is actually a joke referencing my Gritty Goomba TPP. Binarystep (talk) 17:59, 25 March 2015 (EDT)
 * On the bright side, we'll have something clear-cut to point to if this is ever brought up again.

Guys, I get that this isn't very popular, but why does everyone think this is a joke? Andymii (talk) 18:43, 25 March 2015 (EDT)
 * The premise was just so odd when I first saw it. My first thought was that Binarystep made it and it was gonna say something like "Since the Gritty Goombas are different enough, we might as well split these too". Again, no offense to anyone here.
 * Why would I do that...? I don't make sarcastic proposals to spite people Binarystep (talk) 21:33, 26 March 2015 (EDT)
 * Besides, joke proposals are strictly forbidden. The user seems to be doing this in earnest so I highly doubt it's a joke proposal. 22:54, 26 March 2015 (EDT)

That was just my first impression. I was probably too hard on Andymii, though. He does have a case. Also, I would like to point out that Red Paragoomba has its own page. Not sure if that means much, but it's there. Anyway, I'm still opposing, as the different colored Koopas don't have any differences besides color and trivial things like how they react to cliffs.