Category talk:Deceased characters

Shadow Queen
I know that this has been discussed before, but I didn't want to necro that, so I am posting this here.

I feel that the Shadow Queen is a possibility for this list. In my interpretation, the game does not make it clear whether she perished or was simply "sealed away" (as her page on this wiki says) but I think that there is evidence on both sides.

Points for her being deceased:
 * After her defeat, she seems to explode into a wave of blue energy.
 * If the player returns to her crypt after beating the game, her coffin is open but empty.
 * Furthermore, the Shadow Queen could not be sealed anywhere in the Palace of Shadow, as Mario by using the Crystal Stars broke the seal which the heroes initially made and the Thousand-Year Door following that was freely able to open by Mario, the Shadow Sirens, and Grodus.
 * There is no cutscene in the game's ending in which the protagonists make any special effort to try to seal her away following her defeat, unlike with the four heroes historically (according to Grifty.)
 * The tattle log states that "Mario whipped her but for good" implying her defeat was permanent rather than just for another millenium. This suggests a difference between her defeat to the four heroes historically and her later defeat by Mario and co., since in the former case she was able to revive after a millenium.
 * During Grifty's tale, it is said that the Koopa succeeded in badly damaging her but then the Goomba thought of using the Crystal Stars to seal the demon at that time. This suggests it may have been possible for the heroes to destroy her spirit. It also could be that they first thought they could destroy her but later realised they couldn't so they decided to seal her.
 * She was defeated after leaving Peach's body, suggesting that even her spirit was to an extent vulnerable.
 * Unlike Super Paper Mario, this game does not present the concept of parallel universes and was likely written prior to the conception of the Underwhere. As such, the Shadow Queen is unlikely interdimensional, probably eliminating the possibility that she went to another dimension.
 * I have not finished Superstar Saga yet, but from this page (and spoilers : I know that Cackletta is thought to be deceased. That story was similar, in that she survived her body being destroyed and then possessed Bowser, but Mario and Luigi were able to destroy her spirit in the final battle. This counters the point concerning Cortez, as it suggests that undead spirits can be destroyed, but of course neither case is entirely comparable to the Shadow Queen.

Points for her being alive:
 * I think I remember reading somewhere that the Shadow Queen's soul was "one of pure darkness" and hence the four heroes historically could not destroy it even with the power of the Crystal Stars, which are the only reason Mario and co. could defeat her during the game's events. If this is true, it would counter the point saying that the Koopa was able to injure her etc. though it would still be possible that her second defeat was different.
 * Her explosion is not necessarily proof of her death, as Lord Crump survived being blasted into Outer Space following Magnus von Grapple 2.0's defeat, TEC-XX survived the X-Naut fortress exploding altogether, and Sir Grodus survived being attacked by the Shadow Queen with lightning that at first seemed to destroy him entirely.
 * Cortez's soul could not be destroyed by Mario and co., implying spirit forms of previously dead characters cannot be vanquished.

This is all I can think of for now. I would be interested in discussing this further. Personally, I am currently leaning towards the Shadow Queen being dead, so I would be open to changing my mind but if I get no replies I will add the Shadow Queen to this list. MiracleDinner (talk) 06:47, August 9, 2019 (EDT)