Talk:Junior (II)

has anyone ever thought of the fact that if donkey kong jr. is the present-day donkey kong that this one (if it's a girl) is candy kong
 * Candy Kong's not pink. - 18:19, 9 June 2009 (EDT)

In Mario Tennis for the n64, Donkey Kong Jr's alternate outfit depicts his fur as being pink.

should this be added to the video game appearances?


 * Yes, definitely! Add it to the Appearances, but say how the "Pink Donkey Kong Jr." is actually normal Donkey Kong Jr. in that instance. This Pink DK Jr. should also be mentioned on the Mario Tennis page, as well as the section in the DK Jr. article that deals with MT64. -  18:56, 9 June 2009 (EDT)

I gotta do some research because I have a hunch that the pink coloration is some last-minute mistake, but it's just a hunch on no grounds whatsoever.

Don't worry, I added it! Shy Guy (The guy with the mask.) (talk) 14:24, 11 April 2014 (EDT)Shy Guy

Merge Pink Donkey Kong Jr. to Donkey Kong Jr.
Has the end times finally come?

Anyway, I believe this article should be merged with Donkey Kong Jr.. Why? Here's some of my reasons:
 * This character is unnamed and serves solely as a player 2, similar to Luigi. Unlike Luigi, however, it appears ONLY as player two in more of a game-convenient way and doesn't appear on, say, artwork or anything else.
 * Multiple colored versions of characters usually appear as playable characters in many games. Case in point: the Marios in Mario Bros., the Luigis in Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon, the playable characters in Mario Golf 64, the playable characters in Smash Bros. etc. This character falls under that scope and doesn't really deserve its own article, and so should be listed as an alt color to the main character rather than receive its own article.

Proposer: Deadline: December 13, 2014, 23:59 GMT.

Support

 * 1) Insignificant unnamed palette swap clones whose only purpose is to serve as player 2 does not a separate character make. It's like the second clone character in the Subspace Emissary getting its own article. Or the additional Mario in Donkey Kong Jr. I don't think this proposal will pass, but I'll make my opinion on it anyway, as much as I love this sacred idol of the Mario series.
 * 2) Per proposal. This Pinkie Kong "character" is only called Junior (II) as the manual linked in the comments says, and isn't mentioned anywhere else. He also doesn't get any stand-alone status to really separate him from his player 1 counterpart like the Mario Bros., and is more like those multiple Luigis from Luigi's Mansion 2.
 * 3) Leaning towards support on this one since as mentioned above the manual does indeed have "Junior (I)" and "Junior (II)" at one point, but refers to him as a single character practically everywhere else.
 * 1) Leaning towards support on this one since as mentioned above the manual does indeed have "Junior (I)" and "Junior (II)" at one point, but refers to him as a single character practically everywhere else.

Oppose

 * 1) I bet 5 dollars I'll be the only one opposing(Like 99% of the time) but Pink Donkey Kong Jr. seems to be a different case. In my opinions, recolors would should have their own pages, but Pink Donkey Kong Jr. seems like more than a recolor. That and there weren't such things as recolors back in those days. But hey, just my two cents.
 * 2) He's listed as a separate character in the manual.
 * 3) per all.
 * 4) Per Aokage. I looked up the instruction manual, and he's listed as a separate character called Junior (II).
 * 5) Per Aokage.
 * 6) After thinking for a few minutes, I'm going to say no. The manual says he (or she) is a different character. The policy says we have to listen to the manual if the game doesn't say anything about it. I'm not going against the policy.
 * 7) Per the manual, of course.
 * 8) Regardless of my opinion on whether or not he deserves an article, the article should not be merged to Donkey Kong Jr.'s, simply because there's no actual affiliation or connection between the two of them besides the palette swap. The pink one isn't something that emerges from DKJr, like the Crystal King and the Crystal Bits (though honestly I think that could be looked over); it's a clearly-separate entity.
 * 9) - Per all. Even if he is just a construct, he still appears simultaneously onscreen at the same time as the regular DKJr., so it's not unreasonable to treat him as a separate entity, if nothing else, for the sake of absolute thoroughness and to give any curious searchers something to read. Heck, I still think that extra SMG Luigi should be split for the same reasons.
 * 10) Per all they appear at the same time so it can be inferred that they are different characters.
 * 11) What they said.
 * 12) Per all.

Comments
NO

NO

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO --Glowsquid (talk) 16:15, 29 November 2014 (EST)
 * Glowsquid, is that an oppose, or what?Toadbrigade5 (talk) 17:26, 29 November 2014 (EST)
 * Someone dared defy the holy sacrament of MarioWiki. 22:18, 29 November 2014 (EST)

@Toadbrigade and Time Turner: I disagree. To me, Pink Donkey Kong Jr. seems more to be a convienience for a tacked-on feature who isn't advertised on the box. Luigi however, is advertised as Mario's brother directly on the getgo, hence the title, "Mario Bros.". This character, however, doesn't even have a name and has practically zero affiliation with Donkey Kong Jr. anyway other than he competes as a recolor of him, very similar to the Marios from Mario Bros. 19:29, 29 November 2014 (EST)
 * Convenience or not, the pink DK Junior is still a character. Also, you've brought up a good opposing point: he has zero affiliation with the actual DKJ, so why merge them together? However, the Mario Bros. is a good countercounterpoint, since the recolored Marios play the same role as the recolored DKJ... I'll redact my vote for now.
 * The zero affiliation thing is a result of my poor wording. What I mean by this is that, he's literally like the Mario Bros. clones. If he was lamp-shaded, MAYBE he might deserve his own article, but he's not and he's there without any sort of explanation whatsoever, much like the colored Luigi's from Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon. Do we make pages on the colored Luigi's? No, we don't. Also...this point you made:


 * The pink one isn't something that emerges from DKJr, like the Crystal King and the Crystal Bits (though honestly I think that could be looked over) is actually a good point to KEEP this article the way it is, even though it's supposed to be a counter-point. 21:08, 29 November 2014 (EST)
 * The point I'm trying to make is that merging it to Donkey Kong Jr. is the wrong mode of operation. You've already made good points about other multiplayer counterparts, but I'm not the one that needs to be told that. Also, I'm not quite sure what you mean by my point being a counter-point.
 * Like, it's a back-story of him being split-off from the original Donkey Kong Jr. or something. If that was the case, I wouldn't make this proposal. :P 21:14, 29 November 2014 (EST)
 * You're interpreting it a lot more figuratively than it literally was before, but sure.

@Aokage: Really? I like a reference to that. 19:29, 29 November 2014 (EST)
 * Here's a scan of the page in the manual where he is listed as a separate character.     Zakor1138 (talk) 20:30, 29 November 2014 (EST)
 * The I and II identifiers are for the sake of convenience, and they're in parentheses. Notice how the manual also labels the controllers as I and II. This isn't any different when several manuals for Mario Bros. (especially the remade ones in the Super Mario Advance series) also designate numbers for each different-colored Mario. Pink Donkey Kong Jr. is essentially the duplicate player 2 character you see so frequently in older games. 21:00, 29 November 2014 (EST)
 * It calls him "Junior (II)" which still makes me skeptical about him being his own character; it does not reference him anywhere else as his own character. 21:00, 29 November 2014 (EST)
 * Looked up a Super Mario Advance manual. The Mario's are mentioned as just palette swaps, and the numbers refer to which player is controlling them. Compare with "Junior (II)" where he is shown as being unique alongside the other Donkey Kong Jr., a Nitpicker and Donkey Kong. Zakor1138 (talk) 21:13, 29 November 2014 (EST)
 * Junior (II) looks like the Roman numeral also refers to the player who controls them as well. I'm sure the Mario palette swaps are mentioned like this in the Super Mario Advance manual the same way the Donkey Kong Jr. is portrayed here. If the manual referred to Junior (II) a bit more, I'd might oppose this but it doesn't. 21:16, 29 November 2014 (EST)
 * I already looked up the Super Mario Advance manual. It's not the same, it actually refers to the other Mario's as just colors. The numbers only refer to which player controls what Mario color. (P1, P2, P3, P4) Zakor1138 (talk) 21:19, 29 November 2014 (EST)
 * I quite recall that the way it was presented was still in a similar fashion as this, only with Junior (II) instead with (II) telling you that player 2 controls it.
 * The Super Mario Advance manual clearly states that the Mario's are just colors. The Donkey Kong Jr. Math manual shows the second Junior as a separate individual among its cast of characters. Zakor1138 (talk) 21:24, 29 November 2014 (EST)
 * Can you simply post a link to the manual for convenience?
 * PDF file only. Zakor1138 (talk) 21:29, 29 November 2014 (EST)
 * Even after this, I STILL think these Marios are in the same vein as the clone Donkey Kong Jr. The (*roman numeral*) part clearly indicates that it's merely a clone of that character, hence why the name is the exact same except the Roman numeral. 21:32, 29 November 2014 (EST)
 * That's fine. Doesn't look like this page is being merged anyways. Zakor1138 (talk) 21:34, 29 November 2014 (EST)
 * Not being merged or not, I'd still like some more of a discussion. I don't like having valid arguments shut off just because the majority opposes it for most reasons I find unsatisfactory. 22:18, 29 November 2014 (EST)
 * I'd be perfectly fine with the article being merged or simply outright deleted, but I don't necessarily agree with the target of merging, as explained above. How about we discuss other avenues of information migration of the pink guy?
 * Maybe the pink guy's parent game, Donkey Kong Jr. Math? We don't necessarily directly move the article into its own section, but the pink thing gets a mention or so? Maybe we can delete this article instead. Also, I don't necessarily agree with your logic in your oppose. Think about the mulitplayer mode in Luigi's Mansion Dark Moon. Those different colored Luigis fall under the same concept as Pink Donkey Kong Jr. Same thing for the second Mario in Donkey Kong Jr. Yet I don't think people will support Blue Luigi, Pink Luigi, Orange Luigi, and Green Luigi's being made.
 * As for the instruction manual's case, well, I guess it really depends on the eye of the beholder, although both sides make good points. But is the (II) in the manual identifying as a separate character for players' convenience or is it truly a standalone character? It's ambiguous, that's what. 22:31, 29 November 2014 (EST)
 * It's not so much the II as it is that there are 2 Juniors in the same section. As I've stated before, the second Junior is shown alongside the other Junior, Nitpicker and "Papa" (Donkey Kong). Also, the manual has no color so the Super Mario Advance argument doesn't work as well in this case. Unless there is another game manual at the time that says a similar thing for the Player 2 character, I still stand by keeping them separate. Zakor1138 (talk) 23:52, 29 November 2014 (EST)

At the very least, once this is over, the name can probably be changed now that we noticed what it was marked as in the manual all along. LinkTheLefty (talk) 00:55, 8 December 2014 (EST)

Merge Junior (II) (a.k.a. Pink Donkey Kong Jr.) to Donkey Kong Jr. Math retry
It could be me, but since the reasons against merging this feel very weak, I feel this article's notoriety and role as a running gag among regular users is preventing this merge. Not to mention, I feel the significant opposes the last proposal had stifled discussion, so I'm attempting another run-through and see how this turns out now.

Here are my rebuttals for the arguments made.

The problem is, we have multiple Marios in Mario Bros., multiple characters of one in Super Smash Bros., and multiple Luigis in Scarescraper. And no, this Donkey Kong Junior appears only in the mulitplayer mode of the game (if I'm correct), giving further weight to the claim that Junior II is a nameless player 2 duplicate that should be treated as a duplicate and not a distinct character. If he appeared independently in single player, he could be given a separate article, but no, he's tied to a multiplayer mode the same way the Marios are. If this argument is strong, then it would be a case to make separate articles for the Marios in Mario Bros. and the Luigis in Scarescraper. But it's not, and of course, that would be ridiculous. And while it's true that Junior (II) is indeed given a name, it's not quite the name that makes him a distinct character. Let's see further.
 * Junior (II) is a distinct character because he has appeared alongside Donkey Kong Junior simultaneously.


 * Junior (II) is a distinct character because he is named in the instruction booklet.
 * The instruction manual acknowledges the existence of this second Junior.

This is the main thrust of the oppose side. This argument has several problems.

The context makes the difference in this case. In this case, the context turns an argument against the merge into an argument for the merge. Let me elaborate. First, we have two controllers designated as (I) and (II). These Donkey Kong Jr.s then have corresponding designations (I) for brown and player one, (II) for pink and player 2, which suggests that (II) is merely a duplicate in the same way we have different colored Marios in Mario Bros. and different color Luigis in Scarescraper. And unlike Luigi, from Mario Bros. (the green Mario recolor) though, this Donkey Kong Jr. has no name other than Junior (II), which I said, is more likely a simple generic name, making him a indistinct character. Luigi, on the other hand, is shown alongside Mario in artwork, has a separate name, and is promoted as a separate character. The instruction booklet makes no distinction between the two Donkey Kong Jr.s. It doesn't say "Junior's father gives Junior and Junior (II) some math problems". There is no reference to the second Junior as a separate entity anywhere in the evidence used to oppose the merge, other than Junior (II) is listed alongside Junior (I). Furthermore, it has been stated that the instruction booklet has no color, so Junior (II) had to be used as a "name" so players can distinguish between the two. The multiple Marios have no Mario (I), Mario (II), etc., because those instruction booklets were in color. But even then, they're given identifiers per color (P1, P2, P3, P4). So... how is Junior (II) any different?

The Mario recolors are listed and named as P1, P2, P3, and P4 in the Mario Bros. manual They might as well be called Mario (I), Mario (II), Mario (III, and Mario (IV). Is that really the distinction you're advocating for when creating this article?

There's a difference between listing and acknowledging the existence. There is no evidence that Junior (II)'s existence is acknowledged. It says "Junior's father gives Junior some math problems". The controls are listed for Junior. Junior (II) is not mentioned once nor does he have his own name nor does he appear as a distinct and separate entity. I say, "distinct" a lot because that's a key word when it comes to defining separate characters in this case, not merely separate or "acknowledged" in the instruction booklet.


 * "The Super Mario Advance manual clearly states that the Mario's are just colors. The Donkey Kong Jr. Math manual shows the second Junior as a separate individual among its cast of characters."

The manual for Donkey Kong Jr. Math clearly shows Junior (II) as a recolor as much as the Marios are shown as recolors, backed up by what I argued above.


 * "[...]Also, the manual has no color so the Super Mario Advance argument doesn't work as well in this case."

That would be a point for the merge. The lack of color would make the Junior (II) identifier much more important. If they really intended the Pink Donkey Kong Jr. to be a distinct character, surely he would get a more unique name like in Luigi's case?

While the evidence isn't blatant, there is a whole chunk of support and examples to conclude that Junior (II) is a mere player 2 construct in the same way the other three Marios and Luigis are mere multiplayer construct. This Junior (II) does not deserve an article and deserves only as a mere mention in the Donkey Kong Jr. Math article. The reddish recolor in Mario Tennis 64 can be mentioned in the trivia section.

On a final note, this isn't the same as the second Luigi in Super Mario Galaxy because this second Luigi is treated as a separate character in a single-player game, not a one-off multiplayer construct. Unlike Junior (II), he has his own dialogue, suggested lampshading, and just actual recognition as a separate character. It's borderline red herring. I'd still oppose the merge simply because of the facetious lampshading.

So now I spent some breath and brainpower constructing this argument, come at me. I'm ready for the torches and pitchforks.

Proposer: Deadline: April 23, 2015 (23:59 GMT)

Merge

 * 1) I'm up for any discussion, but please reconsider your opposition from last time. If my argument (my rebuttal mainly) has flaws, please let me know.
 * 2) Per Mario.
 * 3) Per all.
 * 4) That is a great idea so, merge it to the game!
 * 5) Per proposal. Also, for consistency, it's either merge this or make a new page for every recolored duplicate character ever.
 * 6) Per my previous stance.
 * 7) Per my previous stance too. It's exactly the same as before.
 * 8) I previously opposed merging Junior II, but now it just seems like keeping a separate article for the Blue Mario in Mario Tennis 64. Per all.
 * 9) Per all.

Don't merge

 * 1) I still believe that this should be a separate page, simply because the instruction manual acknowledges the existence of this second Junior.

Comments
@Aokage: I've refuted your oppose thoroughly in my own proposal. I've listed examples and parallels and stated why it's a logical and consistent merge. Is there a flaw in my point? Seriously, if you can't come with any new points, especially since I've specifically attacked your old points aggressively this time, you shouldn't be using the same reasons as last time. 14:59, 9 April 2015 (EDT)

He is still real to me. --Glowsquid (talk) 16:02, 25 April 2015 (EDT)

Attention, Pink Donkey Kong Jr. diehards
I've just realized that Pinky Kong has made an appearance in even the single-player mode of the game, although he does mostly nothing. What's to make of this? 22:01, 3 October 2015 (EDT)
 * This is also important. If you care, but don't answer to this, I've heard about admin threats to take you off their nonexistent Christmas list this year. 22:03, 3 October 2015 (EDT)
 * I dunno, he's still like the blue Mario from Mario Tennis to me. I still say this is the best solution. 22:11, 3 October 2015 (EDT)
 * Blue Mario isn't playable in that game, but let's assume... what if he was playable? 19:55, 9 October 2015 (EDT)

This is undoubtely proof that pink donkey kong jr is his own character. he shall not be denied agency any longer. --Glowsquid (talk) 22:43, 3 October 2015 (EDT)

Recreate Pink Donkey Kong Jr. Junior (II)
ZOMG somebody's stance has completely done a 360!! Panic! This character shall no longer be oppressed and confined as an unholy redirect.

Here are the reasons.
 * 1) My original proposal's is entirely based on the assumption that Junior (II) appears exclusively in the multiplayer mode of the game. Recent amounting evidence, a gift from God answered by prayers of diehard Junior (II) fans, however, is that Junior (II) does appear as a standalone character in the single player mode. Since he's not dependent on the multiplayer modes of the game, unlike the Marios of Mario Bros. and Luigis in Scarescraper, you can argue that he deserves an article just as much as... uh, I don't know, BUT HE DESERVES AN ARTICLE GODDAMMIT.
 * 2) Previous reasons for keeping this article split may now be applicable since this guy's not dependent on multiplayer mode.
 * 3) This guy has an actual fanbase. Failure to give this character a standalone page will surely piss off a sizeable number of fans, and that will seriously damage MarioWiki's credibility and its Google reputation.
 * 4) It's fucking Pink Donkey Kong Jr..

Proposer: Deadline: October 23, 2015, 23:59 GMT

LET'S RECREATE JUNIOR (II) AGRESIVELLY

 * 1) And God said, Let there be Pink Donkey Kong Jr.: and there was Pink Donkey Kong Jr..
 * 2) we cant let the pink donkey kong jr fandom down
 * 3) The best Mario  no wait, video game character in anything ever needs his page back!!!
 * 4) I don't know why people like Pink DKJr. so much, but I still want his page to stay. Per all.
 * 5) Per the glowing squid Per Glowsquid.
 * 6) Do it! Just do it! Don't let your dreams be dreams. Yesterday, you said tomorrow. So just do it! Make your dreams come true! Just do it! Some people dream of success, while you're gonna wake up and work hard at it! Nothing is impossible! You should get to the point where anyone else would quit, and you're not gonna stop there! No, what are you waiting for? Do it! Just do it! Yes you can! Just do it. If you're tired of starting over, stop giving up! - Shia LaBeouf
 * 7) Per all.
 * 8) - I never agreed with the merge in the first place. Perhaps one day, we will find proof that Pink Donkey Kong Jr. is his true and canon name as well, and can fully restore the page to its proper place and original glory.
 * 9) Per all.
 * 10) Poochy is most displeased with our actions. Recreating Junior II is the only path to forgiveness in the eyes of The Great Dog Lord. Per Bazooka Mario.
 * 11) – As George Wood would have put it, 'This TPP is truly perfect. If you do not support this amazing new TPP of Donkey Kong Jr. Math madness, you are stupid. Yes, I know it's insulting, but that's also the truth. If you're a true Super Mario Wiki fan, you will not hesitate in the slightest bit to support this piece of TPP history.'
 * 12) I have no idea what the heck is going on or what this is all about (other than, you know, splitting a page again), but I'm not one to deny the Pink Kong's page back. So per this crazy proposal.
 * 13) AGRESIVELLY is the only way this article should be recreated. Per all.
 * 14) Per all.
 * 15) Arise, brethren, and CREATE THE PAGE!

Comments
Maybe we can convince the admins for this to pass early so we can recreate it before Pink Donkey Kong Jr. Country inevitably gets announced, we all know it's going to happen. -- 11:30, 10 October 2015 (EDT)
 * Perhaps, but early announcement or not, we still have to abide by the Pink Golden rules of the Wiki Land.  11:33, 10 October 2015 (EDT)

Jokes aside, what in the world is this? It's not exactly April yet... --Andymii (talk) 21:02, 10 October 2015 (EDT)
 * This is actually a serious proposal, but, to provide some background, Pink Donkey Kong Jr. is a running joke among longer-time editors, and this proposal wasn't wholly my idea (nor did it emerge from a vacuum). I mean, look, even the admins are playing along, lol. 23:05, 10 October 2015 (EDT)
 * Any new user who stumbles upon this is going to be amazingly confused.
 * Then we will uphold the wiki's purpose of amassing and sharing the knowledge of the Mario series and teach them about the glory and wonder that is Pink DK Jr. - 10:44, 19 October 2015 (EDT)
 * It even says that to become an admin, you need a sense of humor. PDKJr. is funny, end of story. 18:45, 19 October 2015 (EDT)
 * Per. Knowledge is power. 20:07, 19 October 2015 (EDT)
 * ^ Oh yes it is. 20:10, 20 October 2015 (EDT)
 * I swear this has to be the best proposal that ever happened on this Wiki.
 * This proposal brings Pink Donkey Kong Jr. back, of COURSE it's the best proposal that ever happened on this wiki in the world. -- 18:20, 22 October 2015 (EDT)

Pinky Kong = Stinky Kong
OK, this isn't funny anymore. This should either be merged, or else other p2 recolor non-characters, like the blue fourth Mario from the GBA Mario Bros. ports (who is also not notable, aside from inspiring a YouTuber's color choice), the red Bowser in some Smash Bros. games (who is notable for being a Communist), and everyone else's Mario Tennis P2 colors. Also Snufit Ball. (Now it can theme name with Keronpa Ball!) But not pie, because pie is gross. The point is, this isn't funny, and this page has been sometimes used as an example for attempting to make similar stupid splits, instead of as a stupid pointless joke page. Why do we have a stupid pointless joke page? We have the BJAODN, that's good enough for me. I advocate that this page be DE-CREATED AGGRESSIVELY. And yes, I am serious. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 01:55, 28 December 2017 (EST)
 * AND FURTHERMORE, I advocate destroying this page with a coconut gun. Which fires in spurts. This guy isn't a character, and his coloration makes him almost as ugly as one of those Koroks from The Wind Waker. He's certainly not "pretty in pink." Kill it with coconuts. If you are a fan of this.....ugh, it's too horrible to describe. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 04:44, 28 December 2017 (EST)

No. --Glowsquid (talk) 22:05, 6 March 2018 (EST)
 * Noooooo I'm ruined >-+(V^:{) Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 22:47, 6 March 2018 (EST)

Question
I noticed some missing information here. In the previous proposal by, she says that Pink DKJr. is playable in the single-player mode. Despite that being one of the key reasons why this guy got his own article, the information doesn't seem to have been added regardless. I would add the information myself, but I've never played Donkey Kong Jr. Math and the video she linked to in the proposal isn't quite clear on how the pink gorilla is handled. Does Pink DKJr. show up in both main modes regardless of whether there are two controllers plugged in or not? 12:17, 27 April 2018 (EDT)
 * Also, why has he made it aggressively? This proposal is the reason why i asked that agressive proposals should be cancelled by Admins, and added to the rules, and that agressive proposals are prohibited. -- 06:15, 26 November 2018 (EST)
 * That's just a joke. 07:26, 26 November 2018 (EST)
 * The reasoning was because he's present in single-player mode, not playable. Other gameplay videos I've seen show him to be present even while only player 1 is playing, so I think it's safe to assume he shows up regardless. 07:54, 26 November 2018 (EST)

Inevitable expunging
So Mr. Antichrist here was the star of this year's April Fools' thing. And if the Main page's talk page is anything to go by, I wasn't the only one who was unfond of it. It seemed to be considered "weak" at best and near-loathed at worst. What this tells me is that this stupid "joke" of a page has long run its course, and that it's time to seriously consider getting rid of this living dumpster fire and taking it to where it belongs. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 20:37, April 5, 2019 (EDT)
 * It's just a joke. Calm down. 20:39, April 5, 2019 (EDT)
 * It's a cruddy joke that like 3 people total like anymore. It's.....a dad joke. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 20:46, April 5, 2019 (EDT)


 * Look, I liked the April Fool's joke, you are allowed to dislike it, but April Fool's has ended. This page exists for a reason as PDKJR is the same level of a character as Gooigi. Please keep talk pages about the quality of the page. 20:44, April 5, 2019 (EDT)
 * It is about the quality. The quality of allowing such a page to exist, and not every other pointless recolor "character." It's a severe tax on the quality of the wiki itself. This isn't like Gooigi. This is like "Pink haired Bowser" from Smash Bros. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 20:46, April 5, 2019 (EDT)
 * Every other recolor only appears in multiplayer. This one also is in single-player, has a name, and is not a simple costume. 20:48, April 5, 2019 (EDT)
 * It does not have a name, it has the same name and an identifier relating to the controller port. This is far less important than the now-merged Yoshi color pages. This isn't a character. I repeat, this isn't. a. Character. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 20:51, April 5, 2019 (EDT)
 * I'm wondering that, with that argument, you can make a case for the dupe Luigi in Super Mario Galaxy since he has his own bones, model, and all and even acknowledges he's a dupe. I don't really think Junior (II) is a "name" per se, it's literally just a marker for the player's convenience. But really for the April's Fool thing you really need to calm down about it, weak joke or not, as it's subjective (I don't care how many people disagree with me on that stance frankly) 20:52, April 5, 2019 (EDT)
 * I still think that the Yoshi color thing is the straw that breaks this alpaca's back. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 20:55, April 5, 2019 (EDT)
 * Well, with the dupe Luigi he is kind of a separate form, but PDKJR is like the Yoshi colors which are separate duplicate characters that have few differences. 20:57, April 5, 2019 (EDT)
 * @Doc von Schmeltwick You ARE conversing with an author (and voted support) of a failed merge proposal so you can sorta guess my overall stance on the page if you read arguments above, really. Also @Doomhiker, that's exactly an argument to why Junior II should be merged again with Donkey Kong Jr, come to think of it, all the Yoshi colors are merged with each other. 20:59, April 5, 2019 (EDT)
 * Regardless, nothing can be changed with a standard discussion due to the proposal above. 21:01, April 5, 2019 (EDT)
 * The main problem with the last PDKJR proposal was that pretty much all of the votes were joke votes. Even ones from the admins. So, if a proposal was made, would it be treated seriously with any joke votes being removed by the admins? I hope so. 21:30, April 5, 2019 (EDT)

"And if the Main page's talk page is anything to go by" Seems like you guys are out-of-touch! --Glowsquid (talk) 21:14, April 5, 2019 (EDT)
 * We should not determine wether or not to keep a page based off a joke. 21:18, April 5, 2019 (EDT)
 * Also the people who follow the MarioWiki Twitter generally do so for the memes. This isn't a place for the memes, barring one section of a specific page. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 21:23, April 5, 2019 (EDT)
 * I wasn't opining on the worthiness of the page (though my stance is obvious ;), merely providing a factual counter that this year's AP was "[...] considered "weak" at best and near-loathed at worst." ;). (Also re why people follow the twatter; https://twitter.com/SMWikiOfficial/status/1026150658418855937) --Glowsquid (talk) 21:26, April 5, 2019 (EDT)
 * Oh that's just guilt talking >:V Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 21:30, April 5, 2019 (EDT)

Doomhiker: The proposal was semi-serious, I was contesting the split, but changed my mind after realizing that, yeah, this character is a dupe that appears regardless of the mode the player is using. I used the arguments of the colored Luigis from Luigi's Mansion and colored Marios from Mario Bros. GBA, but they don't appear in the single player mode, whereas Junior II is still there and reacts and shit. That people agree with me, even jokingly adding more reasons beyond it, is that, I specified that the proposal is serious but the language is my own flavor. 00:06, April 12, 2019 (EDT)
 * If i understand, we want to merge this character again. Though, while i dislike him, i'm not too sure how to proceed. -- 02:10, April 12, 2019 (EDT)

why the hell is this even a page? Yes, it's funny, but it's literally a color swap of DKJR. Even if he is mentioned in the manual, that means nothing. He's only playable in singleplayer because they didn't bother GIVING this game singleplayer.

Mayyyybe this page should be removed / Merged with DK Jr.
I've noticed there's been quite the discourse concerning this beloved pink ape. I've decided to make an account so I could give my two cents on the issue:

As much as we all love Pink Donkey Kong Jr., myself included, I honestly think he probably shouldn't be considered a character in his own right. The main defense I've seen is that he appears in the "single-player mode". However, "Challenge A" and "Challenge B" are not true single-player modes, since the goal of the game mode is to try to get more correct answers than the other player. Even if there is nobody controlling Junior (II), the game still behaves as if it were in a two-player competitive environment, similarly to what happens in other NES games when you pick two-player with only one player. In fact, in the only game mode that is truly singleplayer, "+-×÷ Challenge", Junior (II) doesn't even make an appearance.

I've also seen it mentioned that the manual explicitly labels "Junior (I)" and "Junior (II)" as separate under "Characters". However, Junior (II) is not mentioned anywhere beyond this point, with only "Junior" being name-dropped, suggesting that the number distinction between both of them is simply so that the player can tell both "Juniors" apart. For another example, in Balloon Fight's manual, it refers to Balloon Fighters "Player 1" and "Player 2" as separate "Characters". And yet, I don't see anyone clamoring to make a Nintendo Wiki page about the blue Balloon Fighter called "Player 2".

Anyway, those are my two cents, one for each paragraph. Hopefully you can see why Junior (II) doesn't live up to the hype for me. -- DrippingYellow (talk) 15:39, July 4, 2023 (EDT)

De-recreate Junior (II) "agresivelly"
I wasn't familiar with the rules of making a proposal back when I made the post above. Since nobody has replied to it yet, I've decided now to make a proposal myself: merge Junior (II) with Donkey Kong Jr.. My reasons have already been stated, but to repeat them:


 * 1) Junior (II) was originally split due to making an appearance in the "singleplayer mode" of the game. However, he only appears in "Challenge A" and "Challenge B", which, although officially referred to as "one or two player modes", are effectively two-player: the game is constantly checking for Player 2's input during gameplay, and the gameplay loop revolves around the two players competing for score. Similar behavior is also seen other first-party NES games when selecting two-player mode when there is only one player (e.g. Ice Climber and Mario Bros.).
 * 2) In the only game mode where singleplayer is forced, "+-*÷ Exercise", the second Junior is nowhere to be seen.
 * 3) It has been stated that Junior (II) is listed as a "separate character" from the original DK Jr. in the manual. However, at no other point in the manual does it mention this second Junior, or even refer to "the Juniors" in plural. The manual only refers to "Junior" in the control instructions, implying that both characters are Donkey Kong Jr. Additionally, there is another instance in the Balloon Fight manual where both player characters are listed under "Characters", using similar generic names.

Proposer: Deadline: October 11, 2023, 23:59

Merge

 * 1) - Per proposal.
 * 2) Thank you so much for making this proposal. No reason to keep a pallets swap as a separate page if we've merged even more significant things, like the Mario Party Advance characters or Metal Mario.
 * 3) Luigi Crying - Super Mario Sticker.gif
 * 4) After all this time, he'll finally be reunited with  Snufit Ball...
 * 5) fuck Pink DK Jr., all my homies hate Pink DK Jr. and if he needs his own page, so does Purple Captain Toad
 * 6) I never agreed to this being its own page to begin with.
 * 7) - Destructinate the Stinky Kong. Or bring back Snufit Ball. Or both.
 * 8) FUCK THIS GUY WITH EVERYTHING THAT CAN FUCK! *ahem* Although hating on him is a bit too harsh (and even if it's a joke, it isn't even that funny to begin with), i don't think there's enough differentiation to warrant a separate article for him. (oh, and if we're gonna merge this page, ya might as well recreate Snufit Ball)
 * 9) Rip Mario's hard work of re-establishing this legendary figure. But per proposal.
 * 10) Per proposal. This has-been's 15 minutes are up. TEAM PIRATE GOOMBA FOR LIFE.
 * 11) Goodbye... Pink Donkey Kong Jr.... (Per all.)
 * 12) Yeah... we never had (or needed) an article for Green Mario, Blue Mario and Yellow Mario from the GBA version of Mario Bros. either, which is essentially the same thing as Pink Donkey Kong Jr: a palette swap to represent Player 2 (as well as 3 and 4 n the Marios' case). Same goes for the Luigis in the ScareScraper modes in Luigi's Mansion 2 and 3, or any of the palette swaps in Mario Golf, Mario Tennis (which didn't even have a pink palette swap for DK Jr), or any of the Super Smash Bros. entries. Why should Pink Donkey Kong Jr. get the special treatment?
 * 13) Rest in peace
 * 14) Truly a shame to see it go.
 * 15) Unfortunately, yes, I agree. Per proposal.
 * 16) I always thought it was weird how this guy got his own page. I even once brought this up on Discord and I got some sort of excuse stating he's actually a character. But until he reappears in a new game, this was a throw-away palette swap that was created for the sake of multiplayer. Even the name is just telling us he's a Mary Sue.

Do not merge

 * 1) &mdash; I must stand against this injustice to Pink Donkey Kong, Jr., to whom I shall refer by his government name Junior (II). If Nintendo recognizes the game mode in question officially as a single-player mode, then it suffices for us to follow suit. On this basis, I refute the first two arguments that DrippingYellow brought forth so eloquently. Although I must concede that Junior (II) is not described as a "separate character," this is a mere matter of verbiage; the point is that there is a reference specifically to him in the manual. On these grounds, I offer that this article should remain separate. Long live Junior (II).

Comments
Can we at least keep this for bjaodn? 17:03, September 27, 2023 (EDT)
 * Absolutely!!! This page is worth preserving, just... not as a serious article. DrippingYellow (talk) 17:16, September 27, 2023 (EDT)
 * Although it's kinda redundant to this proposal, I... don't actually dislike him. It's mostly cuz i took some people's opinions as a go-to for my thoughts on this character. I'm just indifferent to him... And tbh, i don't particularly find the "'FUCK PINK DK JR" or "Stinky Kong" jokes particularly funny... -- 04:29, September 28, 2023 (EDT)
 * "Stinky Kong" is a mutation of "Pinky Kong," another fan nickname for this guy. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 22:00, September 28, 2023 (EDT)
 * I figured. -- 01:08, September 29, 2023 (EDT)
 * Oh, if this page isn't being archived on BJAODN, we'd have genuine concerns. Mostly because this article's existence is the crux of an entire April Fool's joke we did. That'd probably be a lot more incomprehensible without the context of this article's existence/unexistence/reexistence/soon-to-be-reunexistence. 21:15, September 29, 2023 (EDT)

Wait, this proposal suggests that Junior II will be merged with either DK Jr the character, or Donkey Kong Jr Math... yet we only have a single Support option, and an Oppose option. Shouldn't there be three options ("Merge with DK Jr the character", "Merge with DK Jr Math", and "Do not merge")? Which article does Junior II get merged to if the one Support option wins? 04:49, September 30, 2023 (EDT)
 * I'm guessing the idea is that the relevant information will be added to both articles, and as for which to redirect to, Donkey Kong Jr. makes more sense given the proposal is arguing that both characters are the same and to match Purple Captain Toad. 19:09, September 30, 2023 (EDT)
 * Yeah I'll just... remove the either/or if y'all don't mind, we all know where Junior 2 is going to be absorbed into. DrippingYellow (talk) 15:18, October 1, 2023 (EDT)

If we have any specific requests, when we archive this for BJAODN (seeing as we're practically guaranteed to send this there seeing as it's the basis for a whole April Fool's prank also in there, we should probably give it its own full page, rather than merging it as part of the Characters page. If In the Clouds can get its own page because it invoked a whole major proposal, we think this one easily deserves one considering it has now 3 proposals and a whole April Fool's event for it. 12:53, October 2, 2023 (EDT)
 * In the Clouds really should've been merged with BJAODN/Locations, but it was forgotten about when a proposal was made to merge some of the smaller individual pages into the collections. Infamous as he is, I don't think Junior (II)'s page is long enough to get one to itself in BJAODN. SolemnStormcloud (talk) 13:09, October 2, 2023 (EDT)
 * Yeah, the page itself is definitely too short to get its own subpage, but it also feels wrong to simply plop him into the Characters section, add some witty commentary and a brief explanation of his relevance, and call it a day. Pinky Kong has had a full life, and a loyal troop of fans who were with him to the end. He deserves at least an epitaph dedicated to him, whether it's on its own subpage or not. DrippingYellow (talk) 00:28, October 3, 2023 (EDT)
 * How about also archiving at least one of the older revisions? The state that the page was created in would probably be BJAODN-worthy even if the page wasn't being merged. 03:12, October 3, 2023 (EDT)
 * I can agree to that! SolemnStormcloud (talk) 11:42, October 3, 2023 (EDT)
 * Stupid question, but... Is this page being split no different from hypothetically splitting "pink haired Link" from ALTTP? -- 03:20, October 5, 2023 (EDT)
 * Not quite. Pink DK Jr exists purely as a Player 2 character in multiplayer, to differentiate from the regular brown DK Jr, who would be Player 1. Pink-haired Link is just Link's in-game appearance: ALTTP has no multiplayer mode, so no second Link with alternate colors is necessary. I presume Link having pink hair instead of blonde has something to do with color limitations in the palette regarding early SNES titles, as Super Mario World also has some enemies with weird colorations. Keeping Pink DK Jr split is more comparable to hypothetically splitting the green, blue and yellow Marios from the GBA version of Mario Bros., whilst hypothetically splitting pink-haired Link is more comparable to hypothetically splitting Green Morton from Castle #2. 11:54, October 5, 2023 (EDT)
 * Or just about any Koopalings in this game. (blue Iggy, yellow Lemmy and Ludwig, red Wendy etc.) -- 11:59, October 5, 2023 (EDT)
 * I'd say it's more similar to the individual Links from Four Swords getting their own articles. 12:02, October 6, 2023 (EDT)

@TheUndescribeableGhost I doubt he'll ever make a reappearance, give that normal Dk Jr hasn't gotten a *proper* reappearance (besides MKT, which was just his pixel-self), so... -- 09:20, October 8, 2023 (EDT)