MarioWiki:Proposals

Writing guidelines
None at the moment.

New features
None at the moment.

Delete the "List of bonuses for SSB" pages
This proposal centers on two pages: List of bonuses in Super Smash Bros. and List of bonuses in Super Smash Bros. Melee.

When it comes to the pages centered around the Super Smash Bros. series, there's an unwritten compromise between this wiki and the SmashWiki: we do not cover the same information in the same way. This is evident from the different philosophies each wiki takes, for example with the Super Mario Wiki only covering fan content if it is significantly notable or has been acknowledged by Nintendo and the SmashWiki regularly covering every small-scale tournament and professional player, but it extends to each individual article as well. Take any random article and you'll see that the SmashWiki is far more detailed about the technical information, whereas the Super Mario Wiki presents the information in a more streamlined (and accessible) manner. This is the way things are, and this is the way things'll be for the forseeable future. However, this compromise only works if the information is truly being covered differently, and the two lists that are involved in this proposal fully break that.

These lists are nothing more than us writing down the information that is already present in-game, with little to no additions on our part. It's necessary to supply the means of unlocking each bonus, sure, but when every bonus can only be obtained in one way, there are only so many ways you can uniquely write about it without lapsing into poor writing. There's no additional flourishes in-game, either, so the most we can do is present it in plain text. Here's the rub: that's exactly how the SmashWiki is presenting this, and there's no other way they could present it. There's an impassable level of redundancy here, and since there's no way around it, I'd much rather that we delegate to the wiki dedicated to the series. Even when it comes to the pages on trophies, at the very least, every series' trophies are split into individual pages on the SmashWiki, whereas this wiki lumps every game's trophies into one article (for each game). Splitting the trophies by series and by game helps with navigation, while having the bonuses on separate pages here only spreads thin the little information that exists. It's not like there's a high demand for the pages on this wiki, if the What Links Here pages for each of the pages is any indication. On the very few moments, should they ever exist, that it is necessary to bring up the templates, all we need to do is link to the SmashWiki, and nothing would be different or loss. As it stands, all we're doing is violating Once and only once across multiple wikis. The other articles can stand on their own due to the numerous differences between them and their SmashWiki counterparts, but the lists of bonuses have no such luxury.

Proposer: Deadline: October 8, 2017, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) Per proposal.

Oppose

 * 1) According to  Coverage, we get full coverage of the Super Smash Bros. games, and considering that these bonuses ARE part of unlocks of the Super Smash Bros. series, especially Super Smash Bros. Melee since you need to unlock ALL of them to receive an unlockable item, I don't see the harm of keeping them in. Furthermore, unlike Smash Wiki, the bonuses here are a basic part of the game that any lay player can easily access and view under the respective options menu or part of a strategy guide so technically, these bonuses aren't any more technical than having articles on the various special moves characters have. Are you also going to advocate the deletion of List of Super Smash Bros. Brawl music and the sequel's music lists, since THAT article has pretty much everything you want to be deleted in it, down to it "being redundant" with SmashWiki. Your argument about "writing stuff that is about stuff in-game" is very weak, many of our stats articles strictly concerning Mario games, especially those concerning collectable content are nothing more than a list or a bestiary: having a list is convenient for readers to read rather than needing to boot up the game and read about it there, and it applies to these articles as well. I think the standards your setting up are a bit too arbitrary for my tastes, and I think considering how we cover every other Smash aspect fully, deleting just these pages would have a breach and hole in coverage. I also think the argument for not dealing with the trophy pages is rather weak too: the only thing keeping us and SmashWiki different in our trophy coverage is pretty much only the split in articles, and it's partly due to how they choose to organize their information there rather than how we do it. I also don't feel the Once and only once argument is a strong argument to apply to multiple coverages, since that's not its intended use: we have a DK Wiki yet most of their information there is redundant with ours and it's also the reason it's not as active as here, plus, we even have two NIWA Pikmin-themed wikis to begin with. Tbh, I'm not comfortable with the passage of this proposal without rewriting the Coverage guideline, since as now, it currently allows this as it is and this proposal clearly breaches it.
 * 2) Per Baby Luigi

Comments
@BL: There's a flaw in your argument: this wiki isn't currently covering literally every aspect of the Smash games. The Smash Taunt characters all share one page, as do the various stage elements and enemies from each stage. Would you rather that all of them have individual pages? 15:13, 1 October 2017 (EDT)
 * Of course I'm not advocating covering literally every aspect of Smash game. I'm arguing that the list of bonuses articles are significant enough to the Smash series to warrant an article here, to the point where an unlockable in Super Smash Bros. Melee is tied to it. 15:16, 1 October 2017 (EDT)
 * That unlockable being a single trophy that otherwise does nothing but look pretty. Also, considering how few articles link to it, and considering that beyond that single trophy, the bonuses only exist for the purposes of score attack in a single mode that is far from the game's focus, I'm going to argue that the bonuses are not significant to the series. If they're so signficant, why were they mostly ignored in Brawl and discluded entirely in Sm4sh? 15:21, 1 October 2017 (EDT)
 * Your argument of "Doing nothing but look pretty" is a flimsy, subjective argument. In video games, collectables are always treated like a big deal, even if they're just digital images with text in them, and there's a reason game developers hide these types of things behind rewards. Regardless of how important it is to you subjectively, it has significant value regardless, to the point where it is considered a collectible especially in Super Smash Bros. Melee where you need to "collect" those bonuses to receive something. Maybe they're not important to the series as a whole, but I still say they're important enough to receive an article listing them in the respective games they appear in, pering my previous comments in my opposition. 15:31, 1 October 2017 (EDT)

Changes
None at the moment.

Colons in navigation templates
Here's a simple problem: when it comes to navigation templates for games, some of them include a colon in their name (such as Template:ML:SS and Template:MP:IT) and others do not (such as Template:PMTTYD and Template:LMDM). Unlike my previous proposal about nav templates, this one's more of an issue: it is incredibly annoying for editors when they have to guess whether or not the template they're adding in has a colon or whether the new template they're making should have one in its title. Leaving things as they are just makes things confusingly inconsistent. Given that there's no rhyme or reason for the inconsistency, it'd be best for this to be settled for prevent any further inconvenience. There are two options for tackling this: applying a colon to every nav template that lacks it (assuming the game it's covering has a colon in its name, naturally), and removing a colon from every template that has it. I'd personally advocate not having them in the titles: though it's a part of the game's name, it doesn't convey any information that would help editors recognize the name, making it effectively wasted space. Since these templates will be constantly used by editors, it also helps to compactify them in any way we can. I also highly doubt that there will ever be a case in the future where the acronyms of two games can only be distinguished by the colon in one of their names. It also doesn't hurt that the majority of the (applicable) templates alreadny don't have a colon in their titles.

Proposer: Deadline: October 8, 2017, 23:59 GMT

Remove colons from the necessary templates

 * 1) Per proposal.
 * 2) This makes the most sense.

Comments

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