MarioWiki:Proposals

Writing guidelines
None at the moment.

Create a template for proposer and deadline parameters
Yet another measure intended to improve how proposals are added to pages. You can find the details here. Basically, my proposal is that we change the parameters for the "Proposer:" and "Deadline:" parameters from hardcoding into a template. This will also (quite obviously) mean that previous archives must be temporarily unprotected to enforce these changes. Proposals like these have received near-unanimous support in the past; we have all of these, to name a few, so how does this fare?

Proposer: Deadline: November 14, 2017, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) Per proposal.
 * 2) Templates are for reducing redundant and common markup into an easy-to-use code. We went through it once before.

Oppose

 * 1) Why? This just seems like it unnecessarily complicates the whole process. It's perfectly readable as-is and doesn't take up a notable amount of space.
 * 2) - Per Time Turner. This seems to be trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist.
 * 3) Templates are annoying to use as-is, and what I saw when I viewed the source of that example didn't make me particularly welcoming of this idea. It's just easier to do it the way we've been doing it.
 * 4) Per all. I don't see how this makes things any easier.
 * 5) Per all.

Comments
@MrConcreteDonkey: The problem is that I have seen countless poorly formatted proposer/deadline parameters. 17:30, 7 November 2017 (EST)
 * I haven't noticed anything like that, and even still it's much less hassle to just fix them separately, rather than editing every proposal in every archive. 17:39, 7 November 2017 (EST)
 * Your argument is still flawed; all of these, to name a few. 17:52, 7 November 2017 (EST)
 * But this doesn't make things any more convenient, and it doesn't provide any added insight for future readers. How is this better than manually inputting it? 18:24, 7 November 2017 (EST)
 * It's been fixed. 18:44, 7 November 2017 (EST)
 * It has not. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:53, 7 November 2017 (EST)
 * You've only added the list from your most recent comment to the proposal, and haven't addressed our concerns. How is introducing more complicated formatting going to combat poor formatting? 19:46, 7 November 2017 (EST)

Somewhat related, but I have had a way to streamline calculating proposal deadlines 1 or 2 weeks in advance, but no one responded: MarioWiki talk:Proposals/Header It won't go into the template, but it will replace, found in  (/Header). --

@Wildgoosespeeder: Is our current system not easy-to-use? 09:43, 8 November 2017 (EST)
 * Replacing text is kind of a hassle because trying to preserve formatting. That's why I proposed the template a while ago. Also don't forget . -- 00:32, 9 November 2017 (EST)
 * What text is being replaced? 22:45, 9 November 2017 (EST)
 * This is what is looking to replace with User:Toadette the Achiever/PParameter as a sandbox template.
 * Test:
 * Test:


 * Seems to be working OK. -- 00:19, 10 November 2017 (EST)
 * But is too complicated for the purpose it's trying to fill. The current formula can at least be realistically remembered without copypasting from a different tab. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:21, 10 November 2017 (EST)
 * But the parameters still need to be explained. Nothing is actually being replaced here. 00:21, 10 November 2017 (EST)
 * Too complicated? Does that mean that and  are too complicated as well ? It's not hard. The sandbox template has documentation how to use . If you want the code to be   instead of , just let  know. Also the name of the template can change later. -- 00:27, 10 November 2017 (EST)
 * It's complicated because there's like 3-4 separate blanks on there, which in my opinion is too many. And again, there is no point to it. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:34, 10 November 2017 (EST)
 * Template coding is possible to make two of the four parameters optional to specify (proposer and deadline mandatory, start and withdrawn optional). I think that the template is like that already. Only thing left to do is to simplify the code by using,  , etc.. See  or  for exact code how things are achieved. -- 00:56, 10 November 2017 (EST)
 * It doesn't matter what's possible for the system what matters is human limitation for a thing that gets used like 3 times per week. And again, it is completely unnecessary. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 01:11, 10 November 2017 (EST)
 * I think you are making it more complicated than it actually is. What you will be typing is  (if the template is coded to use ,  , etc. instead). The proposed template page doesn't make it clear what the effects are compared to what I did when  was first proposed. Maybe that is what you are concerned about? -- 01:24, 10 November 2017 (EST)
 * And this is simpler than what we have in place currently how? And why on earth would it be "PParameter?" Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 01:25, 10 November 2017 (EST)
 * Replacing text of the hard-coded copypasta version is a hassle. That's why templates are a thing. Also templates formalize and standardize things. For the name, I said that it can be changed later. Nothing is absolute. That's what a proposal is for. What would you call this template? -- 01:34, 10 November 2017 (EST)

Delete the categories for the levels that an Animal Friend appears in
The title's a bit unwieldy, but it's a good way of describing the categories I'm talking about, like Category:Levels with Parry and Category:Levels with Winky. Why do we have these categories? It's not like we have categories for every level featuring Orange Yoshi or Goombas or 1-Up Mushrooms or anything else apart from Animal Friends. It's not even all of them: the animals from Donkey Kong Jungle Beat are completely absent from the category deal. If you want to know every level that a certain Animal Friend appears in, their pages already list them. Although the lists are a bit unwieldy, especially when multiple of them are on the same page, the solution is not to make categories. Who would actually benefit from these categories in the first place? Who requires a compact list of every level that an Animal Friend appears in, especially when some of them have less than five entries? As I said with the proposal to delete Category:New Levels, we shouldn't need to cater to every single remote possibility.

Proposer: Deadline: November 17, 2017, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) Per proposal.
 * 2) Per proposal; just having the Animal Buddy pages list the levels is good enough.
 * 3) - Per proposal.
 * 4) Per proposal.

Comments
Affected categories:
 * Category:Levels with Ellie
 * Category:Levels with Enguarde
 * Category:Levels with Expresso
 * Category:Levels with Parry
 * Category:Levels with Quawks
 * Category:Levels with Rambi
 * Category:Levels with Rattly
 * Category:Levels with Squawks
 * Category:Levels with Squitter
 * Category:Levels with Winky

Make "Bestiary" its own namespace
Sure, we have a namespace for galleries, but I don't see why we can't do the same for bestiaries. It's the same kind of "special" article that I would define galleries as as well. Therefore, I propose that we rename every instance of  to.

Proposer: Deadline: October 26, 2017, 23:59 GMT Extended to November 2, 2017, 23:59 GMT Extended to November 9, 2017, 23:59 GMT Extended to November 16, 2017, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) Per proposal.
 * 2) Per proposal.
 * 3) Per proposal.
 * 4) Per proposal.  Why not?
 * 5) This is (similar to?) one of the things Zeldawiki does that I think we should too.
 * 6) Per all.
 * 7) Per all.
 * 8) Switch sides again, Per Toadette's comment.
 * 9) - Just because we've got fewer bestiaries than galleries doesn't really give much an excuse. This helps keep the wiki more organized than it would be, and that's more than a good enough reason IMO.

Oppose

 * 1) - For galleries it made sense because most major articles had one (there are currently 319); for bestiaries, I don't see the point at all. There are 12 proper bestiaries, I don't think this warrants a namespace by any means.
 * 2) Per Tucayo. I also don't see the benefit of this; it seems like more hassle then it's worth for little payoff when considering the few bestiaries on the page.
 * 3) Per Tucayo.
 * 4) - Originally supported, but considering the number of bestiaries there are, per Tucayo.
 * 5) I don't think we have enough pages of this thing to make it into a separate namespace. Per all.
 * 6) Per my comment below and Tucayo.
 * 7) Per all. I see what's trying to be done here, but it seems overly fiddly considering what is being effected, making this extra work for little reward.
 * 8) Per all.
 * 9) Really?! Per all.
 * 10) - Per all. At least for now I don't see why this is needed.
 * 11) Per all.

Comments

 * I might just be a bit dumb, but I don't fully understand what this means or what the difference is. Could you give an example?-- 12:15, 20 October 2017 (EDT)
 * For example, Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga bestiary would become if this were to pass. -- 12:18, 20 October 2017 (EDT)
 * I can only see one problem with this. On every enemy page where the enemy template is placed, transcluding its info from the bestiary page, they look like this:
 * The bolded part is where we're going to get into some issues. It'll be a simple fix, but we'd have to change the link for EVERY page with an enemy template.-- 12:54, 20 October 2017 (EDT)
 * Sounds like bot work. 12:56, 20 October 2017 (EDT)
 * The bolded part is where we're going to get into some issues. It'll be a simple fix, but we'd have to change the link for EVERY page with an enemy template.-- 12:54, 20 October 2017 (EDT)
 * Sounds like bot work. 12:56, 20 October 2017 (EDT)


 * Could we keep the current names as redirects until all of the transclusions are fixed?
 * 14:05, 20 October 2017 (EDT)
 * @Ultimate Mr. L: Isn't that a standard measure? @Alex95: That was my exact plan for fixing those pages. 17:37, 20 October 2017 (EDT)

@Tucayo: "There's too little" is not an argument in and of itself. It's so that normal readers don't get confused into thinking it's an actual article. 18:00, 23 October 2017 (EDT)
 * They are articles, though?? What makes them any different from quote pages, lists of badges, recipes, assist trophies, etc.? Bold + italics doesn't make it true. -- 22:01, 23 October 2017 (EDT)
 * Those are actual list articles. Bestiaries are not technically list articles; they are rather pages that are there to have individual sections be transcluded onto actual articles. 22:07, 23 October 2017 (EDT)
 * But they are still articles by themselves. I truly fail to see the point here. -- 22:09, 23 October 2017 (EDT)
 * Again, why do you think that they're actual articles? They are not meant to be. 08:25, 24 October 2017 (EDT)

If we gonna have them as separate namespaces I honestly think the category should expand to all list articles since they are the very similar to bestiaries. I honestly think having a separate namespace for just 12 pages for something very specific is inconsistent and unprofessional.
 * @NSY: Again, bestiaries ARE NOT technically list articles; they are relevant sections of a page transcluded onto other articles, and having too few does not make too much of a difference. Also, could you please elaborate on the "inconsistency" argument? I understand it less so than Tucayo's arguments. 15:10, 24 October 2017 (EDT)
 * Well according to dictionary.com a list is defined as "a series of names or other items written or printed together in a meaningful grouping or sequence so as to constitute a record". Pretty certain an article that has a record of every enemy and their stats falls under that. It's inconsistent because these would the only list articles that got their own namespace, what about the articles listing all the mini games in a Mario Party game, would they also get their own namespace.
 * No, because that's an actual list:
 * Balloon Burst
 * Bombs Away
 * Crazy Cutter
 * Where as the bestiaries are tables:
 * {| class="wikitable"

! Name !! Location !! HP !! Items
 * Bowser || Castle || 100 || Key
 * Goomba || Plains || 3 || Mushroom
 * Koopa Troopa || Mountains || 12 ||N/A
 * }
 * We don't list out the enemies on a bestiary like we do for every single list on this site. The lists are spilt up into categories, like the Species list, and they only have a name that links to it's main article, ONLY. Nothing else about that link exists on the page.-- 17:32, 26 October 2017 (EDT)
 * However, there are some "list" articles such as List of enemy formations in Paper Mario that are tables, so the lists are not always simply just a name that links to its main article. I agree that bestiaries are like list articles. -- 17:36, 26 October 2017 (EDT)
 * Didn't know that existed. Is that article necessary? If so, seems like that should be integrated into the Paper Mario bestiary.-- 17:40, 26 October 2017 (EDT)
 * I feel that there is enough information for it to remain separate (a proposal to merge it could be created though). Even if that and the Thousand-Year Door version were merged with their bestiaries, there are still other list articles that are more than just simply names (see Category:Lists for more examples). -- 17:55, 26 October 2017 (EDT)
 * There is also List of Sammer Guys. The only reason why it is kept separate from Super Paper Mario bestiary is that it is a list of Sammer Guys fought in an optional thing (though the first 20 are required) and they are too similar to each other. As for another this bestiaries are, they are compendiums which is "a collection of concise but detailed information about a particular subject, especially in a book or other publication (not really relevant to these bestiaries, but I am quoting this word for word)" -- definition found by searching compendiums on Bing. The list of enemy formations and others listed here may be the only exceptions, though.
 * Didn't know that existed. Is that article necessary? If so, seems like that should be integrated into the Paper Mario bestiary.-- 17:40, 26 October 2017 (EDT)
 * I feel that there is enough information for it to remain separate (a proposal to merge it could be created though). Even if that and the Thousand-Year Door version were merged with their bestiaries, there are still other list articles that are more than just simply names (see Category:Lists for more examples). -- 17:55, 26 October 2017 (EDT)
 * There is also List of Sammer Guys. The only reason why it is kept separate from Super Paper Mario bestiary is that it is a list of Sammer Guys fought in an optional thing (though the first 20 are required) and they are too similar to each other. As for another this bestiaries are, they are compendiums which is "a collection of concise but detailed information about a particular subject, especially in a book or other publication (not really relevant to these bestiaries, but I am quoting this word for word)" -- definition found by searching compendiums on Bing. The list of enemy formations and others listed here may be the only exceptions, though.

Okay, this just doesn't make any sense at all. How and why in the world would we make this thing its own namespace if there are only twelve of it on the market right now? I don't get it. 17:49, 27 October 2017 (EDT)
 * Because it's not really an article. Its main purpose is infoboxes to transclude onto articles. Because it is more than just an article, I feel it warrants its own namespace. It doesn't matter how few of them there are.
 * 19:48, 28 October 2017 (EDT)
 * But why does it need a separate namespace to exemplify that fact? 20:00, 28 October 2017 (EDT)
 * Are you suggesting that the Template namspace might be the ideal home for them? (Yeah, it just now occurred to me.) 13:25, 29 October 2017 (EDT)
 * ...No? 00:11, 30 October 2017 (EDT)

Make indenting comments during discussions an official rule
You know, when I was just discussing with my good friend Black Lightning when he reminded me to indent my comments, he told me that indenting comments during discussions was an unwritten rule that the wiki abided by. I started to think, why not make this an official rule? So that's the point of this proposal, why not make indenting comments during talk page discussions an official rule? The rule will state that all participants in a talk-page discussion must indent their comments, but after around five to seven colons have been used to indent comments, the bar will reset to zero, and the cycle goes on and on until the discussion ends. This would be a great rule to increase the efficiency and effectiveness of all talk-page discussions. However, unlike most rules, there will be no punishment for violating this rule, as it's more of an official guideline than an official rule, although very occasional reminders will be given. The official rule part is to make it so that all autoconfirmed users do it regularly and get in the habit of indenting their comments early on in their work on the wiki. Proposer: Deadline: November 11, 2017, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) I'm sticking with my proposal.

Oppose

 * 1) 1) I strongly disagree with the cycle resetting to zero. It would be better if it just stopped and stayed at seven. 2) It wouldn't really increase the efficiency of talk pages since pretty much everybody follows it anyway. You can't solve a problem that isn't there. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 3) "Good friend" is really stretching it. "Acquaintance" maybe. Nothing personal, but, as my page says, I don't do internet friends.
 * 2) No. This type of rule works best as a guideline rather than something users can get reminders and warnings for, and I think this veers almost on common sense at this point. To be frank, this isn't something major enough to be addressed, and as Ultimate Mr. L said, most people already abide by it anyway, so there's no point in making this a rule.
 * 3) Per all.
 * 4) - Per all. In most instances it's just common sense, and making not following it punishable with a reminder/warning does not sound like a good idea.
 * 5) - Just indent your discussions like people have been telling you. No need to shoot your foot off.

Comments
THANK YOU! It FINALLY did what I wanted it to do, which is show up as a black header and not a bunch of code. Anyway, you don't need to apologize, Black Lightning. We've all got our opinions, and no one can take them away from us, even if their life depended on it. In the end, that's all that matters. And by the way, I meant "good friend" as in quite literally, "good friend". I didn't mean to use the specific Internet term. 22:56, 4 November 2017 (EDT)
 * Not sure what's with that glitch, it seems to happen every other time a new proposal is made. Encountered it at my first proposal and its shown up form time to time ever since. It fixes itself as long as there some code under the section. As for the friend thing, I mean I haven't met you face-to-face and therefore do not consider you a friend. But this really isn't the place for this conversation.
 * 23:00, 4 November 2017 (EDT)

Help:List <- Closest thing to a written "rule" I can find. 22:04, 5 November 2017 (EST)
 * By the way, I should point out that while not indenting comments is not currently a warnable offense, it is equally minor as forgetting italics, which is as it is detailed on this user's talk page. Drawing from that user's example, if not indenting comments were to become a warnable offense at all, it should only get serious after the user in question is reminded about it more than ten or so times. 16:28, 7 November 2017 (EST)
 * The difference is, I think user space dealing with formatting are lot more lenient on formatting than writing formatting stuff on actual articles. For example, we encourage people to not copy paste raw signature coding all over the people's talk pages whenever they sign, but that rule is not enforced all that often...indenting is even more minor than that, I say. 21:26, 7 November 2017 (EST)
 * @Toadette the Achiever Non-italicizing is something that shows up on articles random people read, while indenting is a talk page thing. I'm not sure how I can explain it any better.
 * 21:44, 7 November 2017 (EST)

Oh, come on, can I ever get any proposal I make to get off the ground and start running? I always seem to epically fail with every proposal I make. Anyway, don't mind me here, I'm just being good old me. 21:45, 7 November 2017 (EST)
 * Complaining isn't going to help you, if anything it will make you look bad. Sometimes proposals just don't go in your favor. One of the points of a proposal is to see what others think, and this is what they think. 21:47, 7 November 2017 (EST)
 * Proposals pass if they are well-thought out and have a decent point to make. Most of the ones you proposed are usually neither. 22:42, 7 November 2017 (EST)
 * I admit that it's difficult to come up with good proposals every now and then, and let's be honest, it's ESPECIALLY difficult to come up with flaws and counterarguments that could be presented to the proposer when they already made their proposal. Just take the commentary as advice, and it'll flow smoothly. 23:25, 7 November 2017 (EST)
 * Well, that's why I usually discuss things in forums or in Discord chat before I enact anything major. 23:28, 7 November 2017 (EST)