Talk:Green Star

Locations
For the Super Mario Galaxy, I agree with the locations of these green stars. But in SMG2, the green stars locations are found in the galaxies article themself. Should we remove that?
 * Yeah, they ARE found in the articles themselves. OK, I'll remove it.

Move to Green Star?
Unlike Power Stars, these are never referred to as "Green Power Stars" in-game. I think it's just Green Star.

TPP: Merge with Green Star (Super Mario 3D World)
I'm pretty sure we don't need two seperate articles for this, as they're practically the same item. They look exactly the same too.

Proposer:

Deadline: December 16, 2013, 23:59 GMT

Merge to "Green Star"

 * 1) Per my proposal.
 * 2) Per proposal.
 * 3) Per proposal.
 * 4) Per proposal, comments below.
 * 5) Sure they act different but they look exactly the same, have exactly the same names and are obviously intended to be the same thing. The Green Stars in SMG2 were the SMG version of Star Coins anyway (With the difference that they only appear post-story and end the level after getting them). The Comet Observatory, Lumas and Rosalina all appear in 3D World so them being treated as "sources of power" is irrelevant. Tons of items change functions over the course of Mario games, and this change isn't drastic enough to warrant seperate articles IMO.
 * 6) I can't believe these articles were seperated anyways, I remember one of the the E3 interviews they specifically stated they brought back Green Stars to pay homage to SMG2. This is silly.

Leave 'em be

 * 1) From what I heard, they have separate uses, the Galaxy Green Stars are a source of power while the Green Stars in 3D World are collectables.
 * 2) They're not the same at all. In SMG/SMG2, they act like Power Stars. In SM3DW, they act like Star Coins/Medals/Comet Coins/whatever. They're not the same thing.
 * No, they're not "practically" the same item. They even have different names. One is a bonus Power Star while the other is akin to a Star Coin. This alone would warrant them split. Would you merge Super Star (power-up) with Star (Mario Party series) just because they look the same? Would you merge Super Star (power-up) with Super Star (Yoshi's Island)? Your reasoning is weak.
 * 1) Per all.
 * 2) – Per Lefty.
 * 3) Per Lefty.
 * 4) Per the first three opposes.
 * 5) Per Tails777, SYB, and LGM, they have different functions and roles in the game. Keep them as is.
 * 6) I think the vote directly above mine explains my thoughts better than I could.
 * 7) Per LeftyGreenMario, Green Power Stars are similar to normal Power Stars, while the Super Mario 3D World Green Stars act similar to Star Medals from Super Mario 3D Land.
 * 8) Per all.

Comments
I rarely contribute to this wiki, but I'll go ahead and contribute to this subject. A good point on the disagreeing side, they operate similar to Star Medals, as they technically aren't a source of 'power'. However (Feel free to correct this), in both Galaxy titles Green Stars are never refereed to as "Green Power Stars" anywhere in the game. The basis of the opposers' side is that the Green Stars featured in 3D World aren't 'Power Stars', but rather 'collectibles', being compared to Star Medals in 3D Land, which are compared to Comet Medals from the second Galaxy title.

Looking back, around the time 3D Land surfaced and images of Star Medals were made available, and due to their similar design, they were instantly paired with Comet Medals from the second Galaxy title, being said to work 'similarly', which in itself is quite invalid. As where Comet Medals are appear alongside Power Stars in Galaxy 2 as an extra (Un-required) feature to unlock bonus missions in existing galaxies, both Star Medals and Green Stars (3D World) are mandatory, at several points in the game you are not allowed to enter certain worlds/levels without X amount of Star Medals/Green Stars. That sounds pretty similar to the function held by Power Stars in Super Mario 64 & the Galaxy series.

The current thinking technically says that the Green Star featured in 3D World are the game's version of Comet Medals (It is said that Comet Medal = Star Medal, and Star Medal = Green Star (3D World), so Comet Medal = Green Star (3D World)), I believe this to be an invalid belief. My point: They operate exactly as Power Stars would, but within a game like New Super Mario Bros., where your goal is to reach the flag pole at the end of the level before the time runs out. I believe in both '3D' titles, they meant to not betray the origins of the previous Super Mario titles in which you collect 'something' (Be it Shine Sprites or Power Stars) in order to advance. That would "technically" make both Green Stars the same thing. --SM64DSMK (talk) 22:51, 2 December 2013 (EST)
 * I'd say that the Green Stars double as a Star Coin-like and a Power Stars-like collectible. You do need Green Stars to open levels, but in New Super Mario Bros. titles, you also need Star Coins to open several levels. Green Stars, however, are still closer to Star Coins than Power Stars, and since they also function slightly different compared to Star Coins AND Power Stars, they still keep their article. Green Stars don't trigger a Star-get animation and there are numerous Green Stars in one run, usually located in more precarious or deviating spots (just as with Star Coins), but you need enough Green Stars to advance in the game (much with Power Stars). 23:19, 2 December 2013 (EST)


 * It wouldn't make much sense for a "Star-get" animation mid game, I see that wouldn't work well in a timed level, or when projectiles (Such as boomerangs) come into contact with the star you wouldn't necessarily be there to "get" it. You have made a good point, it functions as a Star Medal/Power Star hybrid. The New Super Mario Bros. series used Star Coins in a similar fashion (Only they unlock bonus non-mandatory levels/Toad Houses), but in that case, there's not a comparable item in a previous game with a similar function. If this reasoning was put into everything, then the Bloopers in Super Mario Sunshine should have their own article, they bare little resemblance to other bloopers and act differently. Same with the Blue, Green and Red coins appearing across various titles, they work differently but are the 'same' thing. If this were to receive a thumbs down, then every article with similar cases would have to be changed to remain formal. --SM64DSMK (talk) 00:09, 3 December 2013 (EST)
 * True that a Star Get animation would be impractical, but my point is that the Power Star serves its purpose as a goal in Super Mario 64, Super Mario Sunshine, Super Mario Galaxy, and Super Mario Galaxy 2. There are a few Power Stars that break this, but they're usually the bonus stars (such as 100 coins). Again, my reasoning is this: Green Stars in 3D World are not Power Stars because they are not goals and they are collectibles scattered like Star Coins, but they aren't Star Coins either because it is mandatory to get them to beat the game, unlike Star Coins. They still bear a closer resemblance to Star Coins than Power Stars, however. Although I disagree with Green Stars in 3D World being merged to Star Coin, it is a stronger reason than merging it with Power Stars, which is what this proposal is asking for. This is the main reason I opposed. Green Stars in 3D World have a significantly different function than the Green Power Stars in 3D World, and that's my reason to leave them as separate articles. I don't know where you got this illogical situation point you delivered. 02:48, 3 December 2013 (EST)


 * And I don't know at which point you felt it was necessary to say it was "illogical". I cannot recall Nintendo ever releasing a formal definition of "Power Star", we've only created our own, and with that, what a Power Star should and shouldn't be. Again, I'll bring up the situation with coins:


 * Blue Coin
 * SM64: Function - Awards 10 "normal" coins.
 * SMS: Function - Awards two coins, is used to purchased Shine Sprites.
 * NSMB (Series) - Appears for a brief, timed period when a switch is activated, no difference from "normal" coins.


 * Red Coin
 * SM64/SMS: Function - Collect eight and receive that game's variation of "Power Star".
 * NSMB/3D (Series): Function - Collect five/eight of them to get a power-up.


 * Green Coin
 * NSMBU: Function - Pass through a green ring, collect a few (spinning) groups of them (In threes) to get a power up.
 * SM3DW: Function - Pass through green ring, collect eight of them to get a Green Star.


 * If this goes through with the Green Star, then you might as well split those articles up as well, something that could have been simple would become 10 separate articles (Including disambiguations) because this logic is being applied to the Green Star. However, it's safe to assume that Green Coins likely won't reappear in the form they did in 3D World ever again (Award a Green non-"Power" Star), so it's pretty reasonable to have it paired with the other 'variant' of Green Coin to avoid two smaller articles. Same with the Green Star, it seems pretty reasonable to assume that the Green Star won't be used this way in future, in the form of Star Coins/Medals. Pretty much what's being fought for here is more, smaller articles on objects that "are the same but different" (Fire Flowers in the original SMB acts as a Mushroom if you are already in Mini form! Ah! Separate articles! (Fire Flower (Super Mario Bros.)). If Nintendo were to continue the Galaxy series (It's been hinted to possibly happen in the least), then Green Stars will likely return "as a source of power". With that, you'll have one lengthy article about Green "Power" Stars, and one dwarfed article about Green non-"Power" Stars in Super Mario 3D World.


 * A completely separate point, Green "Power" Stars were used previously in both galaxy games as an unneeded side-quest or for optional missions. Only three of them appeared in the first Galaxy game, then another 121 in Galaxy 2, hidden throughout each level, usually in groups of three, each one required to unlock the final bonus level (Sounds pretty familiar, huh?). The decision to use Green Stars over the traditional Star Medal/Coin seems a bit outlandish, but coming off of a previous home console game like Super Mario Galaxy 2, while being a follow-up to 3D Land, as pointed out above, it seems they've decided to cross the two, introducing the traditional star collecting to a game stylized after the old fashioned "reach the end of the level" formula. Really, there's nothing saying they are or aren't the same, same with different coloured coins. Does Princess Peach need separate articles too? Princess Peach (Damsel is distress) and Princess Peach (Playable). The too look the same, but obviously they're different because they serve different purposes. Really, just put the two together. --SM64DSMK (talk) 12:05, 3 December 2013 (EST)
 * While Red Coins, Blue Coins, and even Yellow Coins have gotten different functions, another main reason they aren't split is that they share identical names and they're still coins. None get a drastic overhaul (if Red Coins become an essential part of a powerup, where characters toss red coins to inflict fire, then it's likely to get another article), especially the Red Coin, which has the same conditions to meet for an award. Meanwhile, this is a Green Power Star while the ones in 3D World are simply Green Stars. I suppose if Green Stars appeared in, say, Mario Party, then what? I suppose we can create an article entirely about green colored stars then. But for now, we keep them separate from the different names and different function. After all, we keep Power Stars and other stars different from each other. 14:05, 3 December 2013 (EST)


 * May I ask you to point out the "major differences" between both stars? I'll quote: "Red Coins, Blue Coins, and even Yellow Coins have gotten different functions, another main reason they aren't split is that they share identical names and they're still coins...". Green Stars are still Green Stars it seems, "hey share identical names and they're still coins(stars)". It serves a similar purpose and the same function as it did before, collect, unlock (Needed) levels. If a Green Star were to appear in Mario Party, and serve the same function (Assume they added some sort of level progression?), then why wouldn't they go into the same article? I see if you used them as weapons, or rode on them, then sure, they'd be separate. In this case, they act as a form of progression, look similar and act similar. The recent rise of supporters in the pages not being merged seems a bit suspicious in the least. How about this: In the future, if Green Stars were to appear in in several other games (Mario Party, Kart, future Mario Games), would you change your stance on the subject and be for having a general "Green Star" page? I really don't understand the double standard on this, articles such as the Magnifying Lens feature two completely separate objects under the same name, and there's been no dispute over that. If this goes through, then I'll make a proposal for all articles featuring similarly named but "different" object articles to be split. Really, there's no solid reason to keep them separate it seems, a Green star is a GREEN star, no need to tag them with specifications. --SM64DSMK (talk) 15:00, 3 December 2013 (EST)
 * Green POWER Stars are in Super Mario Galaxy. Those in 3D World are merely Green Stars. Green Power Stars are Power Stars that are green. If Green Stars made several other appearances, we must create a general Green-colored star page. Otherwise, these are Power Stars. Green Stars in 3D World aren't Power Stars. I'm not sure about Magnifying Glass's case, but they still share the same name UNLIKE Green Power Stars and Green Stars. It's a combination of factors that leads to my oppose, not just one factor. 20:04, 4 December 2013 (EST)

'Iwata Asks' mention of Green Stars
Sorry to abandon the previous discussion, but after doing a bit of research on the subject, I found an Iwata Asks interview discussing Green Stars in Super Mario 3D World:

''This time, we replaced Star Medals with Green Stars. We made that change because as with gameplay since Super Mario 64, we wanted gameplay that goes a step further, so that you take on a challenge and get something when you clear it. That way each person, advanced players as well, can enjoy all kinds of ways to play. It turned out so that players can enjoy a feeling closer to 3D Super Mario games. -"Hayashida''" (See interview here)

What does that seem to imply? We made that change because as with gameplay since Super Mario 64, we wanted gameplay that goes a step further, so that you take on a challenge and get something when you clear it. - This seems to imply the swapping of Star Medals for Green Stars was homage to Super Mario 64, implying that they're meant to be 'Power Stars' in this sense. He mentions that Super Mario 64 changes the basic Mario formula from "Reach the end of the level" to "obtain this to end". With that comment, he mentions that the Green Stars serve this purpose, both visually and mechanically: It turned out so that players can enjoy a feeling closer to 3D Super Mario games. And what was that 'feeling'? Collecting stars. This atleast seems to imply a relation to Power Stars, but in a game stylized after the formula the series originally followed. This seems to be relevant to the topic at hand, an implication that these Green Stars are Power Stars in a different gameplay environment. --SM64DSMK (talk) 19:29, 3 December 2013 (EST)
 * It's an implication, though. Iwata has made no mention that Green Power Stars and Green Stars are the same entities. Green Stars can be retooled Green Power Stars, but it doesn't make them the same necessarily. 20:04, 4 December 2013 (EST)

Question?
I got redirected here from a link in the Rabbit article's SM3DW section. Is a disambig gonna be created to remedy that soon, or does that somehow hinge on the outcome of this proposal? 71.190.20.181 04:25, 8 December 2013 (EST)
 * Hinges on the proposal, of they're merged they'd all be on one page so the disambiguation would be unneeded, if they remain split a disambiguation will probably be created.
 * Right, thanks. Not that it means much towards the process itself, but a split would make sense to me, which is why I asked. The link I mentioned should still be fixed at least, in the event I don't remember to do so myself. 71.190.20.181 04:37, 8 December 2013 (EST)
 * I've already handled that, don't worry.