MarioWiki:Proposals

List of Talk Page Proposals

 * Remove all cartridge tilting glitches from List of glitches in Super Mario 64 (Discuss) Deadline: July 11, 2013, 23:59 GMT.
 * Rename the Hostages category to Kidnapped (Discuss) Deadline: July 14, 2013, 23:59 GMT.
 * Delete Player. (Discuss) Deadline: July 20, 2013, 23:59 GMT.

Create policy page for galleries

 * Draft: User:GBAToad/sandbox

In regards to consistency, there has been a lot of lenience given to galleries. It was only very recently that we addressed a significant problem with their organisation, but in my opinion, there are multiple other issues with the way galleries are structured and formatted which also need to be fixed.

To clarify, there is a clear difference between newer galleries (such as this and this) and older galleries (such as this and this). Newer galleries seem to follow a much higher standard than their older counterparts, which makes them look better in comparison. Newer galleries are also much more consistent with each other than older galleries are. I believe that this inconsistency between galleries is due to the lack of a detailed gallery policy page with a set of rules that all galleries should follow.

I'm proposing that we enforce this new policy page which will apply a comprehensive standard to all galleries to maintain their appearance and structure. There are some fantastic examples of galleries out there, and these should be used to set the standard for all galleries new and old. Thus, using galleries such as these as a guideline, I have expanded on what is present on the Help:Gallery page (namely just the bottom bit) to include other important formatting rules that (if followed) should keep all galleries looking neat and constant with the majority. Most of what I've mentioned is already standard in most galleries, but having a written outline should make maintaining all galleries much easier.

Some things I've included:
 * The current organisation standard, which includes a new section dedicated to printed media. It also makes it clear that screenshots from animation (such as The Adventures of Super Mario Bros. 3) should be included on subject galleries as per this proposal.
 * Formatting standards. There needs to be some consistency with the alignment of images and use of headers. Some galleries use and some galleries don't. It is clear that the wiki favours using and Header 2 (==) for sections.
 * Definitions for each section and what it contains. I've also included definitions for the three types of galleries and the differences between them (such as the amount of pictures they need to contain). This will help avoid any confusion when adding images to sections and when creating subsections.

(Note: This policy won't replace the Help:Gallery page, it will be created under the title Galleries.)

Proposer: (with ideas from ) Deadline: July 12, 2013, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) I'm certainly not saying that enforcing this policy will suddenly make the galleries perfectly consistent, but it should greatly improve the standards of all galleries.
 * 2) Great proposal! I think you already expected me to support it, but yes, this policy will provide a good rule for galleries. Galleries do seem wonky, with a lot of inconsistent coding and formatting. This proposal will clear things up.
 * 3) - Per GBAToad. Having a solid Writing Guideline to refer to when formatting gallery pages will be really helpful.
 * 4) - Yes please! This would make everything way more organized and make the wiki look more professional. Per all.
 * 5) - Per all.
 * 6) — Per all; also, maybe we could write one line or two about the intro? I mean, now we have a kind of standard, so we might as well mention it there.
 * 7) - Too logical to disagree with, per proposal.
 * 8) Looked at the draft and I like what I saw. A great way to organize galleries. Per all.
 * 9) Per all.
 * 10) A better question: why should we not make a gallery page? Per all.
 * 11) Great policy here. Love it.
 * 12) Yeah, I don't see any reason to oppose this, so that galleries will be all tidy and neat.
 * 13) Per all.
 * 14) Per all.
 * 15) Per all.
 * 16) Per LGM and Sinanco, the galleries (starts whispering) go a little crazy.

Comments
@Banon It's the first bullet point of the "Proper Formatting" section. 09:08, 29 June 2013 (EDT)
 * Oh, ok, I thought it didn't refer to the intros. —
 * The topic has been discussed on the forum, and we decided we will add a section for the standard to the Subpages Policy. So maybe, you could link there. —
 * Done. Thanks for the tip.

Other Appearances, Cameos and References sections
It would be useful to have subsections at the bottom of the History sections to group all the random data-deficient appearances (rather than littering the place with section-stubs), as well as things that wouldn't really fit in the History proper, like merchandise, commercials, references and cameos. Right now, they're already used on the Mario, Luigi, Princess Peach, Wario, Thwomp and Bowser articles (and maybe others too), and on a whole, seem to work well. However, the Bowser page has a rewrite template calling for the removal of the section, which is what brings me here. Currently, there's no policy about this type of section: it's just something that's been done informally, but I think that should change.

The style of these sections should follow the example on Bowser's article: nice, full paragraphs that group related bits of information (lump the games, lump the merchandise, give the "How to Draw" books a separate paragraph, etc.), as opposed to a bulleted list like Peach's page, which looks lazy and sloppy and should be avoided. Bowser's page also has a few subsections: the Wreck-It Ralph one is a good idea since the movie's pretty notable and folks are likely going to look for info about it; the others are about series in which Bowser has made multiple cameos/references, which is okay, although the Thwomp page is a better example of this practice, as it makes full use of its Zelda subsection, with multiple, information-rich paragraphs. However, even though there's a lot of into, they're still just cameos: "guest appearances" should still be incorporated into the History whenever possible, like how Wario's Densetsu no Stafy 3 appearance is nestled in his page's History, while things like the PM:TTYD badge are in the "Other Appearances" section. Similarly, while putting data-deficient Mario series games in these grab-bag sections is better than nothing, the hope is still that if enough info can be collected to make sections worth reading, it'll be done. It's also worth noting that while things like Super Mario-Kun and other obscure publications are likely to land in these sections more often than not, it's not meant to be a return to ye olden days of separating appearances by media: merchandise (including Nintendo Monopoly and Super Mario Chess) is really the only medium that should be limited to "Other Appearances" (for obvious reasons).

Finally, as seen in the examples, the name's not consistent. The goal would be to call the sections "Other appearances, cameos and references", but if (for example) there are only cameos and references (like on Thwomp's page), it'd be more accurate to call the section "Cameos and references", and if no cameos or references have been added to the section (yet), it could simply be called "Other Appearances" for the time being. If this proposal passes, the name, the structure and the content of these sections will all be outlined in a paragraph added to the History section of the Manual of Style, thereby making these handy sections official and welcome on the wiki.

Proposer: Deadline: July 16, 2013, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) - Per me. When done right, these sections are a great asset, especially for massive character pages that will simply get bogged down by attempts to incorporate one-liner appearances in the History proper.
 * 2) Although it takes a lifetime to read, per proposal.
 * 3) - Per proposal.
 * 4) We need an official writing guideline on this and this is a great start. Per proposal.
 * 5) There are no downsides to this proposal, except that it requires work to do. Accessing those giant pages is still a problem, though, but that's another issue. Per all.
 * 6) Per all
 * 7) Per proposal.

Removals
None at the moment.

Impose a standard for dates
Recently, we have no clear standard for dates. Often, we see dates like this: Month DD, YYYY, and other times like this: DD Month YYYY. I think we should have a set standard for imposing dates. So, here are two choices.

Month DD, YYYY TT:TT (GMT) | July 13, 2013 23:59 GMT DD Month YYYY TT:TT (GMT) | 13 July 2013 23:59 GMT

Proposer: Deadline: July 13, 2013, 23:59 GMT

Month DD, YYYY

 * 1) - Starting with the word, having all the numbers together (broken up perfectly well by commas), and then closing with letters seems neater to me than mixing them all together and not using punctuation. It also mirrors how the date's spoken aloud (in my experiences), and from what I understand, MDY's the main format in the US as well; so, going by the same logic as the North American name thing, most editors and readers will have been schooled in MDY notation too - but of course, I can't assert that for sure. It's also been the proposal standard for years (starting with the List of TPP section, iirc), and changing it now seems arbitrary and will require a lot of archives to be fixed if we wanna remain consistent (most of the pre-MDY archives are already inconsistent and need fixing either way - although I've already done a few of them there and there).
 * 2) - Even though I was raised with D/M/Y and have used it all my life, for the sake of consistency the wiki should use the Month DD, YYYY format. Not only that, but, as Walkazo mentioned, it looks much better than having  , and the comma lets it flow easier.
 * 3) Per Walkazo.
 * 4) We are trying to "Americanize" this wiki, so to speak, so having the date format of the US makes sense. Per all.
 * 5) Per all.
 * 6) Per TT.
 * 7) Per all; for consistency.
 * 8) DD Month YYYY seem to be confusing to me, so I'll rather stay with Month DD YYYY instead. Per all.
 * 9) Per all.
 * 10) Per.

DD Month YYYY

 * 1) This should be the standard date. Signature dates and Featured Article dates already use this format, so it's a wonder how proposal deadlines don't use this format. In fact, I've tried using this standard for proposal deadline dates, but it keeps getting "reformatted" into the first one. The reason this format is so attractive for formal writing is that it is quickly grasped since the figures are separated by word. So, I support using this standard.
 * 2) Per Lefty, I also find it easier to read if it goes day, month, year.
 * 3) Per Lefty and Yoshi.

Comments
Why does the time have to be first in the second option? I prefer DD Month YYYY to Month DD, YYYY, but I'd like the time to be after that because it's always the same and the date is the important part. Aokage (talk) 15:57, 6 July 2013 (EDT)
 * The time is first because it's the way the signature and the featured article is arranged, but the time can go after the date.

Walkazo: The numbers aren't mixed. They're ordered by the the smallest time frame to the largest one without punctuation. I think this notation is preferred in formal works, and I think this reminds me of how the U.S. uses the customary system, but most scientists (including those in the U.S.) prefer metric. According to the article you listed, more and more written works are written as this format as well. This format also eliminates ambiguity, which is the purpose of that format. I'm not calling for an immediate change in the archive system, though, but Walkazo, if you're calling for that first one, you have to change the signature formatting and the FA dates as well. Either way, something's being changed.
 * Graphically, it's mixed. There's no ambiguity as long as the month's written in letters and the year's got all four digits: the ambiguity comes when it's all numbers and 11/12/10 could mean anything (especially in Canada, since we use all three orders, which is just super). If I could change the sigs, I would, and I'd much rather change the FAs to mach the proposals, too. Aokage's point about the time being way less important than the date, and thus, should come last, is valid for FAs as well as proposals: unlike proposals, the times may change, but does it really matter what hour and minute an article becomes an FA? The month and year seems much more important, especially when you consider that histories are navigated using months and years (in case someone ever wants to go see what an article was like when it was featured, like if it since goes downhill and makes them wonder how it was FA'd in the first place, or if they want to just do it out of curiosity, or whatever). -
 * The format we use (the one for writing out the months) works better in day month year since it's cleaner and easier to read, so there wouldn't be any ambiguity in rearranging the dates that way. I'm not asking for all numbers, by the way. I do think the time should go after the dates, though. Still, I'm not sure if DMY format is used in formal spots, much as how metric is used instead of customary in scientific works, even in the U.S.
 * Which method is cleaner and easier to read is subjective: you think DMY is better, but I think MDY is better; there's nothing to debate there, because both are valid opinions and it's just a matter of which opinions is more popular. I didn't think you were arguing for numbers only, I was just using it to show what is ambiguous, because saying DMY "eliminates ambiguity" implies the alternative, MDY, has ambiguity that needs eliminating, which is doesn't - unlike the number method. From my experiences, MDY is used in formal situations all the time, including academia, but either way, I still maintain that concerns about formality should take a backseat to the more important question of which format feels more natural for the users and thus, will be easier to read and use. The subjective, popular vote. -

I'd like to go for ISO 8601: YYYY-MM-DD (hh:mm:ss). I think it's a bit more logical because year < month < day < hour < minute < second. —
 * Never mind. —

@TimeTurner: Please don't bring political agendas into this. The wiki is international, that's why we allow both American and British spelling, among other things. Going with the North American titles and the date format primarily used in the States isn't about "Americanizing" the wiki at all. The former is to make it easier for the most number of potential readers to find us with their Google searchers, and my argument (in addition to the subjective looks call) for this matter is similar: use the date format used by the most editors. Since the bulk of the wiki's userbase and reader traffic is from (North) America, that means the (North) American standards are the ones that will best serve the most people. It's demographics and the popular vote, not political at all, and dragging those sorts of issues into things is nothing but a recipe for disaster. -
 * I... what? You have me completely at a loss, Walkazo.
 * Look up the old First English Name vs. North American Name proposals, or even the comments here. The last thing any objective wiki discussion needs is to get sidetracked by any sort of political chatter, including terms like "Americanization", which can inspire rather strong feelings on either side of the argument. Besides, we're not trying to Americanize the wiki, and so, that's not why anyone should support or oppose the MDY format. -
 * I... didn't realize that "Americanize" is a political term, nor that it would actually cause political arguments. I know next to nothing about anything politics-related, and since I've apparently, I do apologize.
 * No worries: if I hadn't seen arguments flare up over that sorta thing many a time already, I probably wouldn't think it'd be something to avoid either. So no need to apologize - you just might want to rephrase your vote, is all. -

Paper Mario: Sticker Star Level Pages
Since Paper Mario: Sticker Star is a level-based game, there is a page for each level. However, the format for these are inconsistent, as you can tell by comparing Warm Fuzzy Plains, Water's Edge Way, and Jungle Rapids, though there are more inconsistencies. I think that there should be one format for all of these levels, which I have included below. There is also very little information on some pages, and I feel that they should be expanded. One area that many of there articles are lacking in is the Tattles section, which Kersti gives throughout each level. I believe that all of these pages should be formatted the same and have more information in general.

Suggested Normal Level Page Format:

*Not relevant for all pages

A few sentence into

=History=

=Layout=

==HP-Up Heart==* (Location/How to get)

==Traveling Toad==* (Being bullied by ___, bribe, reward)

==Secret Door==

==Secret Exit==*

=Sticker Shop=* (Inventory) (On levels like Rumble Volcano)

=Area Tattles=

==Advice==

=Enemies=

==Bosses==*

=Things=

=Trivia=*

=Names in other Languages=

NOTE: Some special levels like Bowser's Sky Castle will take away many sections or add in specialized sections for that particular level

Suggested Shop Level Page Format:

*Not relevant for all pages

=History=

=Layout=

==Secret Door==*

=Sticker Shop= (Inventory)

=Area Tattles=

=Things=*

=Trivia=*

=Names in other Languages=

Proposer: Deadline: July 16, 2013, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) I think that we should keep all of the pages on this wiki organized to the best of our ability, and this will organize and expand all of the level pages for Paper Mario: Sticker Star.

Oppose

 * 1) - One "Overview" section like in some other leveled games' articles seems more efficient than splitting the plot and layout; then just put the subsections in there (although I'm a bit unsure if one-liners would need full sections anyway). Subsections for Bosses also seems unnecessary: just bold them in the regular enemy lists or something to cut down on header clutter. Also, Trivia sections go at the bottoms of pages (and are actually discouraged).

Comments
"Shop Levels" are things like Shaved-Ice Cave, right? Seems like they wouldn't even need History/Layout sections at all, or is that article actually lacking in a lot of info? I haven't played the game yet, so I wouldn't know... -
 * It's not lacking info. It's just a shop that, because of how accessing the game's locations is done, is given its own space in its "world."

Miscellaneous
None at the moment.