Talk:Demon

Shouldn't be a Redirect
The Shadow Queen article links to this as though demon were a species. Since we both have that demon and the one who appeared in Brawl, shouldn't we consider making an article about the topic? There are probably even more demons that I just don't know about. 20:31, 15 February 2009 (EST)
 * I agree. You could also mention Black Chest Demons. 20:43, 15 February 2009 (EST)
 * I changed it to a regular article.


 * Is demon even notable enough, as it is just a general term used to describe certain characters? Should we have an article for Fish or Magicians?  Seems better as a category.  The concept just really isn't well established. --  P.S. Or this page could serve as a disambig for different subjects referred to as "demon."
 * I agree with your second idea of a disambig, SoS. -- Shiancoe 21:18, 15 February 2009 (EST)
 * Red is also a demon. 23:20, 15 February 2009 (EST)

Delete Demon.
Is this really necessary? There's a category.

Proposer: Deadline: September 19, 2014, 23:59 GMT

Delete

 * 1) There's a category for this' so do we need this? Also' disambiguations are pages With The Same Name. Take Red and the Shadow Queen for example. Do they sound alike? Exactly.
 * 2) My question: are there multiple things called "Demon" from the games? Then yes, we need a disambiguation page. But "demon" receiving a disambiguation page is like having "Plumber" receiving such a page. Disambiguation pages are supposed to help people search for the right name, not be a page that lumps all shared entities into one spot.
 * 3) There's maybe the Resident Demon and maybe the Black Chest Demon that are worth keeping if we were to trim it, but I really don't think those two alone are really worth keeping this.
 * 4) This is a page made for what someone has been called. Let's make a page on "Loser" and put Wario on it while this page exists.
 * 5) Per all (and we should do that ninelevendo)
 * 6) Per what there's at the bottom of the page. While a dsambig is for something that have the same title (or similar, that's why I included Mini-Mario in Mini Mario disambig), the entries in this page doesn't even share a single letter.
 * 7) Though I originally opposed (because of the small clarification at the top of the section) I see enough reason from others to move my vote over here. (Though I see no problem with "Loser" :P)
 * 8) Per all, as usual.

Keep

 * 1) So what? We have a category for Dogs and yet it has a page.
 * 2) Having a disambig and a category with same/similar names isn't the same thing. They have two seperate functions, and having one doesn't prevent from having the other. That said, most of the things on here are demons, but aren't named demon. That's the function of a category. There are a few that do have demon in the name, so keep those. Tl;dr: Trim entries, but don't delete.
 * 3) Per Vommack.
 * 4) Eh. Someone might get this only knowing one demon, only to find there are more. Helps a bit.

Comments
@Randombob-omb4761 that's because it's not a disambiguation.
 * That still doesn't prove anything, a disambiguation is a type of page.

Shadow Queen IS a demon. The other stated not. I agrre we should delete this


 * "This is a disambiguation page — a list of pages that otherwise might share the same title." These pages do not share the same titles at all: this kind of disambig page misuse happens all the time... Now, one can make a case for making a general "Demon" article, like Dog or Dragon to talk about demons like Red, Abigor and Akuman, which don't have specific species, and are just "generic" demons, but as it is, the disambig page approach is no good. - 19:12, 5 September 2014 (EDT)

See, now this is making enough sense. The original reason of "There's a category too" is why I opposed originally.

Thanks for your support! This may be the first voting (FA' UNFA' and proposals) that I've won!
 * I think you won the unfeaturing of Star Piece as well. :) 23:36, 6 September 2014 (EDT)

Also' Dragon and Dog are different. They are not disambiguations.
 * You should include more in your summary for your proposals, et cetera. As you can see, everyone else is supporting for a different reason than the existence of the category.
 * Yeah, the reason you're winning is that other voters have provided more convincing reasons the article should go. 23:36, 6 September 2014 (EDT)
 * Same goes to this as well. - 01:04, 7 September 2014 (EDT)

The proposal should be finished today.

Reinstate this page as an article for the Shadow Queen and Shadow Siren's species
Should've realized I needed to make a proposal to do this.

From what I can tell, the old page was a catch-all article for all demons in the series, and I agree that article would have been kind of useless. That would effectively be a bunch of species with no real common characteristic. But I do think an article with this title should exist to cover... well, you read the section title.

I do not think it is in any way a leap to say that the Shadow Queen and Shadow Sirens are the same species. That's not speculation, that's just picking up on an implication. And the only species-like descriptor we get of the Shadow Queen is "demon", said often by multiple characters. So it's simple logic to say that the Shadow Sirens are also demons.

I believe an article on this species is warranted because it's a species that ties together the final boss of the game and a prominent group of antagonists (one of whom becomes a party member), so even though it's not really explicit, I think it's a major enough presence in the game. It's similar to how we treat Shamans and Flip-Flop Folk.

One last note: I understand "Demon" might seem too generic of a name for such a specific subject, so perhaps my proposed article should instead be titled. I've included that as an additional option below.

Proposer: Deadline:: May 10, 2023, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) Per proposal.

Make "Demon (Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door)" instead

 * 1) Could go either way on this.

Oppose

 * 1) Only the Shadow Queen is called a "demon", and it's not treated like the name of a species, just a general term for "evil, supernatural creature". The Shadow Sirens appear to be the same species as her, but she is also much larger and more powerful than them. Combine that with all the media out there where, appearance-wise, a demon is just a human with horns and a tail (and sometimes not even that), and I see no reason to assume that the Shadow Sirens are demons, nor that "demon" is the name of a species to begin with.
 * 2) Per 7feetunder. Demon is just used as a way to describe something as evil.
 * 3) Per 7feetunder.
 * 4) Per 7feetunder and the first part of my comment.

Comments
Not voting just yet, but considering we have an article about the Shadow Sirens as a group this might be a bit redundant. If the article was to be made, I think "Shadow (Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door)" might actually be a better title (identifier because of the Super Mario RPG enemy) because the Sirens themselves are never referred to as demons. 14:44, April 26, 2023 (EDT)
 * Agreed: considering the only people from this species are the Shadow Queen and the Shadow Sirens, it makes more sense to call them "Shadow" folk rather than "demon" folk. Not to mention that we don't even have another page for anything else called just "Demon", while we also have a page on Black Chest Demon, so I think "Demon (Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door)" as a page title would be generally confusing. 15:32, April 26, 2023 (EDT)
 * Fair point on "Shadow" being a more intuitive descriptor, but it's also... never used in a species-like way for the Sirens or the Queen. I mean, "demon" is also never put in the franchise's usual "this is a capital-G Goomba" terminology, but they state "[the Shadow Queen] was a demon" several times. I think naming the article "Shadow" would be putting a conjectural name over a name that's official in at least some capacity, which is against our naming policy. Ahemtoday (talk) 17:28, April 26, 2023 (EDT)