Talk:Super Mario Land (series)

Is Super Mario 3D Land a game from the Super Mario Land series? I want to write about it here, but I'm not very sure. -- Super  Radio
 * No. It is not considered to be a Super Mario Land series game.

The Super Mario Land games are confirmed canon by Nintendo
Nintendo on their Japanese 30th anniversary website has posted "the history of the super mario series." All the games considered canon are still on the list, however the Super Mario Land games (specifically the first mario land and six golden coins)are added. Since this is indeed an official source by Nintendo, we have no choice but to delete the "Super Mario Land series" article to fit this official picture by Nintendo. If there is any reason why we should deny this official source please speak up. Here is the official source.

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/mario30th/index.html#/history/

Merge to Super Mario (series)
For the Super Mario Bros. 30th Anniversary, Nintendo retconned from what they didn't do for the 25th Anniversary: include Super Mario Land and Super Mario Land 2: 6 Golden Coins in the line-up of the main Super Mario platforming games. This wiki hasn't do anything at this respect, except for pointing this curiousity in the pages. With this change of mind from Nintendo, we no longer need this article on its own and should be merged with the Super Mario series one, no matter if they weren't made by Miyamoto or his EAD team, what it should matter is that they were made by Nintendo and they have been offically included to a greater, and more important, series. But what about Wario Land: Super Mario Land 3? well, up to this point people should know that game belongs more to the Wario Land series, 'nuff said, it's the inaugural game for that series. This is similar to the case for Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island, who took the name of another game in order to appeal people to get the game. Nintendo did that because they were experimenting for the then-new series, but a name doesn't necesarily make a game part of a series, that's why we never included Super Mario 3D Land to this page. We should be aware that Yoshi's Island was called a main Mario game by Miyamoto, but has been excluded from the line-up for the 25th and 30th Anniversaries of Super Mario Bros. so Wario Land is no different for this. Wario Land will be fine on its own series.

Proposer: Deadline: October 17, 2015, 23:59 GMT.

Support

 * 1) - If people is not convinced, I would suggest reading my comment below.
 * 2) Per Byllant.

Oppose

 * 1) - Per what I said in this proposal. While I think the SM series page should include the first two SML games (and Yoshi's Island) somehow, like how it has all the random SMB remakes and whatnot listed separately from the main games, it should NOT be instead of having a separate SML series page. It isn't just some redundant/nested subseries (as "" would be): it's straddling both the SM and Wario Land series, and it is not our place to arbitrarily cut perfectly good series in half. WL:SML3 (and VB Mario Land) would indeed be out of place in the SM series page, but I think it's important that there is a series page that groups all the Land games together (like how we have a Super Mario Advance (series) page to group Yoshi's Island with the three main SM remakes). Furthermore, it's not just the series pages at stake: History sections, templates and categories are all affected by how we organize these games (we want to be consistent, after all), and I feel very strongly that it makes sense to keep the SML games separate in these capacities, given how different the games are to the usual SM games (SM3DL is no SML), the awkwardness of how the three finished games bridge two series, and their historic separation - the 30th anniversary stuff may include them now, but the 25th's exclusion of them should not be ignored, nor should all the years of separation preceding it. Also keep in mind that the 30th stuff leaves out major remakes like SMAS and the SMA series, the US version leaves out Lost Levels, and neither it nor the 25th stuff included the aforementioned random SMB remakes we still gotta keep in our article: Nintendo's free to pick and choose what to celebrate in their highlight reel, but we're stuck reporting on everything, and keeping the SML series intact is the best way to organize that info.
 * 2) In general, per Walkazo. In the long, pretty much what I said last time. There are some interesting talking points to be had and both sides are going to make the same valid arguments, but there just isn't enough compelling reasons to A. Shake up our entire core structure (with this proposal acting as the first quake), B. Disrupt the main point of MarioWiki, which is to document all things Mario, with an emphasis on the games and C. Make broad, unsupported judgement about what is or is not valid (keeping in mind that our main designation is "educational archive", thus we document, not judge). Perhaps we could display the perceived discrepancy differently or otherwise work it into relevant article bodies better, but I fully disagree with burning the forest for the trees.

Comments
I really wish people who would oppose this will not shield up with the excuse these games weren't made by the former Nintendo EAD or Shigeru Miyamoto, I mean, we can compare this to The Legend of Zelda: The Minish Cap, which was developed by Capcom and Vanpool and not Nintendo EAD, with Keiji Inafune directing the game and not Eiji Aonuma, yet is still a canon Zelda game. Also, we should be aware that this retcon makes this page as if we have a page for the New Super Mario Bros. games, which by the way, failed to be made as an actual page, so people who opposed that proposal should consider the same arguments they gave for that proposal as well. -- BYLLANT   04:11, 3 October 2015 (EDT)