MarioWiki:Main Page talk archive 21

Response to Feedback
There is  no guarantee the results from Feedback will have us take action. However, if there's an agreeable consensus (and the worry of a quorum is not needed – at least 30 have answered already, even 40+ on one), we will act. It'll be a couple of weeks at the minimumas we continue to take in more data before we come to any conclusions. 20:13, 6 September 2008 (EDT)

Right call on this? (and trying to get this straight about reminders/warnings)
Okay, I just had to hand out a reminder to this person because he was repeatedly replacing images in character infoboxes (for main character article pages) with their artworks for Mario Super Sluggers. What this the right call/explanation? I'm very confident about this, but still had to ask to be sure on this.

Also, in the case of reminders/warnings -- I am lead to the conclusion -- if warnings are issued -- they are to be treated as permanent records on the talk page itself (meaning that those warnings are set in stone and cannot be removed)? As for issuing them, I would imagine having to hand our reminders and warnings when necessary (if the need arises) -- does the same procedure apply for "last warnings" as well? I do understand having to contact Sysops if any users are problematic, though.

All right; thanks! --M. C. - "Mario Gals" Fan! 12:36, 9 September 2008 (EDT) User Page | Talk Page

1:: Errr... What?

2: err, if I understand you correctly, Yes, warnings are permanent. Reminders are kind of in a grey zone, however. --Blitzwing 15:27, 9 September 2008 (EDT)

On 1), important artwork such as infoboxes shouldn't have any extra items that relate the character to a particular game. That's why Mario Party works so well – it's just the character, most often. But in MSS, the bats are often in the artwork, so, favorably, that is not the optimal choice for the top infobox image. MP8 is fine for now 15:47, 9 September 2008 (EDT)


 * That's what I also thought -- in terms of just "general" character artwork itself on infoboxes; not artwork of characters with extra stuff. I also explained this to the guy that I placed the reminder on via his talk page. Thanks for clearing that part up. Also, I understand that the warnings are permanent -- that applies for "last warnings", right? (Only that afterwards is when the sysops have to be called in if the violator(s) still ignore that one; this part I know). --M. C. - "Mario Gals" Fan! 15:57, 9 September 2008 (EDT) User Page | Talk Page

Hold up: am I right in understanding that you warned a guy because he was putting valid artwork in an infobox? There's actually no policy regarding this issue right now, so he didn't do anything wrong... unless I'm not understanding all of this. 00:43, 11 September 2008 (EDT)
 * No, not a warning - a reminder -- because he accessed every article of the main characters and replaced the pictures in their infoboxes with the artworks of them for Mario Super Sluggers. I noticed the red flag immediately and changed them back to more suitable artworks (as Wayoshi said earlier). Besides, using artworks done for sports installments to "feature" in character infoboxes for main articles just doesn't make sense to begin with, anyway. "General" pictures are better. --M. C. - "Mario Gals" Fan! User Page | Talk Page
 * I don't think it's much of a problem of giving out reminders for issues like that: I mean, it's just reminders. I don't think there's a difference between giving a reminder on the one hand and simply telling the user that (s)he did something wrong on the other. 05:33, 11 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Exactly: why not just take the time to explain the issue fully rather than just put a reminder on someone's page? The reminder is so generic that I've always had to explain why I was issuing it.  I think the removal of a reminder should be dealt with individually: something like this is fine because it's just for the user's benefit.  But, something like swearing or advertising would be the kind of reminder that should be kept, IMO, that way, if the user does it again a warning can be issued.  Regardless, we DO need a policy for the main image - personal opinions on the matter may be valid but it doesn't mean anything unless it's backed by policy.  10:36, 11 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Sorry to cause a bit of an issue. If the template can't explain the problem clearly, it should be elaborated on, yes. And, what would we call such a policy? 15:35, 11 September 2008 (EDT)
 * I think the current "reminder" template is fine, actually. Just as long as the situation warrants it. --M. C. - "Mario Gals" Fan! 16:09, 11 September 2008 (EDT) User Page | Talk Page
 * Actually, a policy might be a good idea to avoid confusion. It'd be much easier than handing out reminders and explaining to users how things work. We could call the policy the "General Image Policy" or something like that. It would explain which kind of artwork would be the main image in character articles, the appropriate locations for screenshots, etcetera. 17:35, 11 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Yes, I think a policy could work. There already is a policy named Image Use, so we could call it or something, which we might even cover about the "3 images per game in the gallery" rule, "Two Images in one article" rule, and other non-written laws. On a different note, I don't think a reminder for Koopalmier was very appropriate, 1) Because there was no official rule against it when he changed it; he did it unknowingly, and 2) He even left a note on the talk page(s), so he wasn't being bossy or anything. But yeah, that's my opinion.
 * I agree with Garlic Man, except that maybe we could just keep Image Use Policy and add more information and rules to it. 18:27, 11 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Hmm... well, they seem to cover different areas(one's about image file format), but since they're(or will be) both policies, I suppose that could work. Either way(seperate or combined) would probably work effectively. I'm not picking on Merit C, but we would like to make sure to make rules clear for users who did something, not knowing that it was generally unrespected.
 * I agree. 18:47, 11 September 2008 (EDT)

Poll problem again
Once again, the vote button on the poll box is not there. To all the people who made the polls, this is why there was a guideline seven-option limit. 08:14, 13 September 2008 (EDT)
 * It could be your browser; I can access the vote button just fine. 11:46, 13 September 2008 (EDT)
 * How about: What is your display resolution? This is why I added the (full) link after the question. -- 14:13, 13 September 2008 (EDT)
 * I think a vertical scroll bar should be in order. ...Unless it ruins how the main page looks. :< However, I can indirectly scroll down to the view results button without voting lawl. 7 vote limit. Right, unless it can be leaked somehow!

another poll option
shouldn't a "other" option be added to the polls
 * I agree with Tucayo. 12:04, 15 September 2008 (EDT)
 * This was the last poll chosen by me. In the future any such changes to a poll should be suggested during the selection process. -- 15:42, 15 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Sweet. Will do.  21:04, 15 September 2008 (EDT)

Canonicity Update
A while back GhostJam started a discussion among the sysops as to our canonicity policy at Canonicity. The discussion concluded and updates to the page were made. Few, if any, changes will be required as a result of the new canonicity policy - it's mostly just a vocalization of the policy that we have been endorsing for the last half of a year (example: We have been removing uses of the terms "canon and "alternate canon" from articles. Now, MW:Canonicity no longer mentions alternate canon and prohibits the use of the term "canon.")   11:02, 16 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Yay. Template:Conjecture should be updated to read "unofficial". - 13:03, 16 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Speaking of said template, should we change it add more emphasis on the fact that the subjects we use it on are unnamed? 19:50, 16 September 2008 (EDT)
 * That would be a good idea. - 12:40, 18 September 2008 (EDT)

Is Mariowiki also dying?
Well, Ive been experiencing data errors alot, I cant connect to chat anymore, and some other stuff. Is our server really that bad, slow, or what? Im starting to get annoyed that the fact that pages are taking longer to load, errors popping up every 10 seconds, and Mwiki being down sometimes. It eventually goes back up though. So, have you been experiencing this problem, or have something to say?

I've been experiencing errors to. This is really starting to get annoying. I almost lost a huge rewrite because of this what is starting to be an 'unstable' server. I'm not saying its one but the way the server is going is very odd indeed. I don't want this server to go as well since Scribblewiki is already down :(

We used to have this problem on Porple's other forum. I personally haven't seen the errors for a while there (Have they moved over here?) But I would hate to see this site die >: Neurario 01:53, 25 September 2008 (EDT)

Nah, It's just a sign we need to change host once again. I remember that past errors used to be far, far worse (The "Mario is not amused" crash, anyone?"). --Blitzwing 06:45, 25 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Per Blitz. I remember several server crashes and malfunctions that were worse than this; give it around a week and the site will probably be back to normal. 11:58, 25 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Oh ok.
 * Yeah don't worry S-Y. Mariowiki goes through these kinda phases once in a while.
 * (oh and by the way, the first time I wrote this, the site gave me an error so I couldn't save it XD)

Let's not overreact yet. That server move 14.5 months ago put us offline for a fortnight, and really killed the activity at a critical time - the start of summer. Things seem to be back to normal at this moment, anyways. 20:35, 25 September 2008 (EDT)
 * I remember those two weeks; I was like "Wut?" when I saw the Brawl artwork for Mario, and the text at the bottom, which I don't remeber what it said.

I remember a friend of mine telling me that he made an edit to a page and it came up as "Mario is not impressed". Could that have been some sort of hack?

I was probably the first to encounter these problems. Around the time I created my first account, I kept encountering errors. I just thought that it was my Windows Vista, though.-KP Blue 14:56, 26 September 2008 (EDT)

Per Blitzwing and Stooben Rooben, I keep having the 'Mario is not amused' malfunction everytime I tried to get on to my user page on my old account! -- 23:03, 29 September 2008 (EDT)

GIFs
Is it against the rules to implement GIFs into articles that demonstrate a certain enemy's or character's performance? Ex: If one were to make a GIF demonstrating the Chuckolator's attacks, would this be alright to implement into an article? Of course, you would use official game sprites. 21:17, 25 September 2008 (EDT)

I think it would be alright, but they can't be made up. ☆R.O.B 128♂ 21:24, 25 September 2008 (EDT)


 * Yup. No policy exists against it and it has already been done on the Bubbles page.  22:23, 25 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Anybody got a GIF for ROB? ☆R.O.B 128♂ 22:34, 25 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Check out his old NES games and see if he ever appeared in-game. If not, you'll know that no official sprite GIFs will exist.  22:39, 25 September 2008 (EDT)
 * I know that there aren't any so far, but what about Warioware? I'll look for that. ☆R.O.B 128♂ 22:45, 25 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Alright, thanks guys. :) 22:49, 25 September 2008 (EDT)

Search Box Extension
Maybe this is a bit fancy for this site, but I noticed Wikipedia has a (relatively) new extension where it searches the database for a page as you type it in. I was wondering if such an extension could be implemented here. It would be helpful for users who don't know if a page exists (or may not know how to spell it) 18:52, 29 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Wow, I was actually thinking the same thing recently, after seeing Google, Wikipedia, Youtube, and several other sites started using it. I think it would definitely help new users if it was implemented.
 * Good idea, PR. I've contacted Wikipedia to see how exactly they enabled that new function. 20:29, 29 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Wow, I got a response already. o_o; Anyway here is what's needed to install that function to the wiki. 20:35, 29 September 2008 (EDT)

ScribbleWiki Destruction
It seems that ScribbleWiki is permanently shutting down in the wake of some type of major server crash such that they cannot even recover the wiki data. Userpedia will effectively have to start from scratch on Wikia.

'''Userpedians now about to spend more time back here on MarioWiki: remember NOT to overload us with all your user comics. We WILL take appropriate action if you step too far.'''

That is all. 22:32, 29 September 2008 (EDT)
 * For those of you who want to contribute to the new Userpedia, this is the link. We at Userpedia greatly appreciate any contributions you make. 22:36, 29 September 2008 (EDT)
 * No Wayo. Just no. It WILL recover. And when it does, part 2 of your little MKWii thingy is gonna go up :)

Wayoshi, I really doubt you need to worry so much about Userpedians. I'm sure Stooben and the other sysops have the situation under control. 02:08, 30 September 2008 (EDT)
 * He isn't "worrying", he's just trolling Userpedia users. --Blitzwing 06:51, 30 September 2008 (EDT)

Wayo: Do you REALLY think that we're gonna upload our comics here? We're not because we don't need to. We've also recovered over 1000 pages so it doesn't really seem like we will need to worry...'cept me since mines unrecovaroble. And others...

I just had an error It says "Wikia is sadly having problems. Our backend servers are not responding. We are working to fix it as soon as possible. " WOW -___-

Never mind it's back up.
 * No, the error came back. Hopefully, Wikia won't have the server problems that Scribblewiki had. --Palkia47 10:28, 30 September 2008 (EDT)

Like I said before: WOW -___-
 * Wikia acting up right now is not the perfect time <_< --Palkia47 10:36, 30 September 2008 (EDT)

We have had sysop discussions about this before and we just want to make sure our focuses won't be distracted by this shake-up. That's why I brought it up. 15:46, 30 September 2008 (EDT)

I personally think its gonna be back up... I DONT RLY LIKE WIKIA THAT MUCH and the pages are to short
 * Yeah; and due to it being moved to Wikia and a few other reasons; I've retired from Userpedia. --Palkia47 17:01, 30 September 2008 (EDT)

Im probably gonna retire 2...
 * Didn't the "old" userpedia start out at Wikia in the first place? Is it still there?
 * I thought it was on editthis.com. 18:13, 30 September 2008 (EDT)
 * No, I think all of the Userpedias were on Scribblewiki. --Palkia47 13:05, 1 October 2008 (EDT)
 * The oldest one is in editthis.info link

Mario & Luigi 3
I'll let someone with more.....well, I'm far too lazy to do anything about it, so.....a new Mario & Luigi game was announced at the Nintendo Conference, a few frames of which can be found here (scroll down to Nintendo Conference and click on DS).

As it is a new game, we may want to think about creating a tentative game article and start gathering information as it is released. Thanks. -- Chris 02:26, 2 October 2008 (EDT)


 * OMG! It looks like Bowser is playable! But let's not jump into conclusions just yet. ;o And there is a another WarioWare game for the DS. :P *breaks the trivia entry that each console has at least one WarioWare game lawl* Watch the DS upcoming games by clicking here! :> BTW, I'll be completely gone at Saturday due to a field trip, 'nuff said rawr.
 * The new WarioWare/Made in Wario title is called Made in Ore (メイド イン 俺) in Japanese, literally "Made in Me". Makes sense, since it is clearly seen in the video that one can create own microgames. And they use icons from Mario Paint. XD --Grandy02 04:40, 2 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Do we have an article for that yet? 10:07, 2 October 2008 (EDT)
 * What's "each console has at least one WarioWare game" meaning? The GBA already had Mega Microgame$! and Twisted!. - 11:47, 2 October 2008 (EDT)
 * And I don't think the Nintendo 64 had any WarioWare games. 11:59, 2 October 2008 (EDT)
 * I believe the only systems a WarioWare game were on were the GBA, GCN, DS, and Wii. 12:05, 2 October 2008 (EDT)
 * I think RAP referred to consoles active in 2003 and later (but as Cobold told, he was wrong nonetheless), the N64 was already dead in 2003. But the Japan-only precursor of the series was indeed for the N64, for the 64DD to be exact. Mario Artist: Polygon Studio had a few microgames and a game mode in the same manner as WarioWare. As to the new game, there is an article. --Grandy02 12:12, 2 October 2008 (EDT)

Awesome, a quality game. For now, these can be stubs and moved when official NA titles are announced (hopefully soon!). 15:58, 2 October 2008 (EDT)
 * EPIC 16:08, 2 October 2008 (EDT)

There seems to be a confusion with RAP's comment; when he says "at least one per console", two is "at least one".
 * Actually, one is "at least one ", because at the least, there has been one . However, he's still wrong about the "per console" part. 18:31, 2 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Yes, but if a system has 2, a system has at least one . Aw, forget it. Stupid arguement :P.

LOL! XDDD Despite the fact that I made a mistake in this, you guys seriously blew into the "stupid argument", oh man!! XP No seriously, the guys who are smart enough to correct that mistake, thanks for stopping by. So... W00T to the two new upcoming games and two new updated consoles, the DSi and the Wii HD! This has been fun, but sadly I'm completely gone at Saturday due to a field trip, nuff' said, again! :P

SSB Special Moves
I'm currently starting a mini-project in order to apply the changes required by my recent proposal. I would appreciate help in this matter. I'm creating a "planning page" at User:Stumpers/Test currently. If you'd like to merge a particular character's special moves, please put your username in parenthesis by the character's name, and I'll leave the job to you. Just make sure you do the following in accordance to the proposal: (1) Copy all text and pictures over - even if it makes the character page look messy. (2) Change the move's page to a redirect to its section in the character article. (3) Only then can you start editing the images and text that used to be in the special move page... sorry, it was a stupid thing to guarantee the two opposers in hindsight... :(

Thanks so much! 19:43, 3 October 2008 (EDT)

Traffic
I thought you guys might find this interesting. According to here, we are the 41,759th most visited site on the internet. That may sound like a low number, but that's fairly high considering all the other websites in existence. :) 00:55, 6 October 2008 (EDT)
 * That is awesome! Yay!  We're one of the more major fansites!  02:29, 6 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Well, as of wikis, Wikipedia stands at 8. Google 2nd, and Yahoo 1st. I looked up Zelda Wiki(just as a comparison I guess), and they're 114,938, so we're well ahead of them :). (Some other sites: smashbros. com - 6980, nintendo.com - 2,699, amazon.com - 33, ebay.com - 18)
 * Not to rain on the parade, but I never trusted Alexa. Their info always seems out of date. If it is true though, go us. 16:59, 6 October 2008 (EDT)
 * I didn't know they were usually outdated. But, I can easily fathom the top ten sites being correct, so hopefully we are as high as they say. (Hopefully higher!) 17:06, 6 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Is there a possibilty that we're becoming less popular...? Our ranking is now 42,154. Hopefully it's temporary.

Heh, I already looked over this way eariler before you guys. Yes, we are a very popular Mario site indeed. :3 Here's the limitation; it is possible that there are more people visiting this website than you think; well, majority of the fact that most users don't have the Alexa Toolbar that records which websites we visit and slot in a hit in the counter. So techinally, that may be bad per limitations of what we gathered for people visiting this website. PR, Alexa can't track everything you know. As I said, the Alexa Toolbar can send info of how much you visited a website. ;) I thought you guys know about most of the tools in the intenet, I guess I was wrong... Hm, I might share some more; if I can find it. :P

Delete
Is there any way in which we can delete TC or Upload?
 * These aren't pages. They're links to pages on the MediaWiki homepage. - 09:10, 13 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Oh. Then why do they appear in here and here? =\

Errors
I'm getting frequent database errors when trying to load any page, including the log-in. Does anybody have the same problem? - 17:22, 14 October 2008 (EDT)
 * I'm having them multiple times whenever I access a new page and/or edit. 17:34, 14 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Must we bring this up on the Main Talk every time the wiki hits a pothole on the road? But anyway, yes, everybody is experiencing errors, at least I am.
 * You users aren't the only one. Ony day I tried to acess the Recent changes and Proposals page and I couldn't edit 'cause I could sign in. (Is Media Wiki dieding or have problems?) The only page I could acess was the Random page and the Main page.
 * Like any other website on the planet, we have hiccups from time to time. I've only had a few errors myself. -- [[Image:Shyghost.PNG]]Chris[[Image:Shyghost.PNG]] 20:09, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

Article Organization
Hey, all! Recently the sysops rewrote Canonicity and Chronology to remove the speculation from it. Based on the lack of feedback, I'd say everyone is pretty happy with it or doesn't mind either way. There's a bit of a problem, however: with the new canonicity system, we're aiming to treat everything official equally while removing as much speculation as possible. The majority of our character articles are organized in the following sections: biography, spin-offs, appearances in alternate media, personality etc., trivia, and official profiles/statistics. Our biography sections are really a list of video game appearances in the order described in MarioWiki:Chronology. However, MW:Chronology specifically states that it makes many assumptions. In other words, to a certain extent it is speculation. However, with our current article organization, this speculation is necessary. "Biography" means that we need to have a singular, specific order in which the events happened. But, what if we could reorganize the articles so that speculation was not necessary? We'd be removing an enormous amount of speculation!

This is where our new idea comes into play. I'd like to know how you would feel about reorganizing articles by series and media. In other words, we would have a section for "Video Game Appearances" which (for, say, Peach) would include sections for Super Mario series appearances, Super Mario RPG appearances, Mario Kart appearances, Mario Tennis appearances, etc. Each section would be organized by release date except when a title specifically places itself in an earlier or later timeframe than other titles. For example, Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island will still be listed before Super Mario Bros. for Mario. There are several advantages to this idea. (1) As stated before, it would remove the speculation implied by our previous organization (that the games happened in a particular order, that all spin-offs and alternate media events weren't part of a character's life) (2) Would provide a more orderly design for readers wishing to know about a character's roll throughout a series (More connections in story are made between series than they are between all video games) (3) Would prevent confusion by new users. The belief that there is a canon is very strong as it is, and our organization only makes the problem worse. I myself am one of those who originally believed that many sources separated from the biography were "non canon," assuming that the previous editors knew better.

I'm more than willing to make a mock-up for anyone who would like it. For now, I'd like to get input from you users on this. If there as much support from regular users as there was from the sysops, I'll send this concept straight to the proposals page for voting. 22:28, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

Absolutely, this is the way it should have been all along. Readers will be able to get specific information much faster when organized as such. Let's face it as well, SoS was great...but his ideas ended up being outlandish. Good to see us fixing what was wrong in that era - 16:05, 15 October 2008 (EDT)
 * I believe I've already shown you my support, but anyway, this sounds like a great way to set things in stone. 16:21, 15 October 2008 (EDT)
 * I think it's also worth noting that by passing this, we'd make a centralized organization. Right now each article has its own, it feels.  SoS did a lot of good things, and I think he was right about needing a central way to organize articles.  However, it was a speculative way that he eventually chose, so hopefully we can fix that - I actually think this new organization follows his desires to remove speculation, actually.  Thanks for the support, both of you!  16:31, 15 October 2008 (EDT)

MW Shortcuts
I suggest that we stop making shortcuts to MarioWiki namespace pages that contain "MW" in it. They commonly become double and broken redirects, that glitch the system. As you can see, UPLOAD is a double redirect, but we can't fix it because it takes us to a MediaWiki.org page. TC, which was supposed to redirect to the Trouble Center, is a broken redirect that links you to a MediaWiki.org page. Even if you search for BLAH, it still links to a MediaWiki.org page, albeit nonexistent. 18:27, 17 October 2008 (EDT)
 * I've noticed this too. I never really followed through with the idea, but I once thought that instead of short cuts, it would be much more beneficial to just have a page called MarioWiki:Policies that liked to all of our policies for easy reference. -- [[Image:Shyghost.PNG]]Chris[[Image:Shyghost.PNG]] 05:32, 18 October 2008 (EDT)
 * This is Steve's fault for including mw on the InterWiki table. A small removal should fix all 12:10, 18 October 2008 (EDT)

Collapsible Galleries
On a lot of pages, galleries take a long time to load – especially when they're filled with a lot of images. (ex: Mario, Toad, etc.) Adding a show-hide feature to the galleries could help the loading period greatly for articles. As you can see here, I've made a model for the concept. What do you guys think? Should this be implemented into articles? 18:47, 21 October 2008 (EDT)
 * That a very good idea! (You can hide that gallery :D)
 * Hey thats pretty neat. Sounds good to me.
 * Thanks, guys. :) 19:38, 21 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Your welcome. :D

Eh, aren't hidden objects still loaded? I had that kind of collapsible gallery of images I've uploaded on my user page and it took ages to load still. That could of course also be because of the script to list the images. - 17:04, 22 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Well, it could just be my browser – the images didn't load until I hit 'show' on the template. 17:08, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

I believe hidden items still load. It won't really speed up your comp. But this is still a great idea for other reasons. A showhide feature can make navigating through a gallery filled page much easier, like the case we had with templates. 19:10, 22 October 2008 (EDT)
 * It must just be my computer then. :\ So, should this be made into a proposal, or should we just implement the new feature now? 20:51, 25 October 2008 (EDT)

I say go for it. There really are no cons to this idea, so there'd be no point to the proposal. 23:31, 25 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Alright then, I'll get started on it ASAP. 23:38, 25 October 2008 (EDT)

Inactive Users
I wonder why there's so many inactive users here? Is this a joke? Cause I don't find this funny. And what's driving away users from here?


 * I see what you mean but remember, not everyone is obsessed on a video game series staring a redcapped plumber and his friends like we are... Also we seem to get a spark of users during vacation times where people get all the free time. I wish I had a life like those people
 * Maybe because they're losing intrest of this wiki. Princess Grapes Butterfly
 * Remember, people are busy, and eventually don't have time for the wiki any more. Sometimes, they just lose interest in it. It's not a joke, it's real life. It happens everyday to every person, and it'll happen here too. 16:59, 26 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Yeah no lie. And also because of school. Princess Grapes Butterfly