MarioWiki:Proposals

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Merge M&L Wiggler articles with Wiggler
Seeing Wiggly and the Wiggler from M&L PJ split makes me question why aren't any of these merged in the proper Wiggler article. I mean sure they have a different role from other Wigglers but they all have the same name and there really is no real reason to keep these split.

Proposer: Deadline: June 28 2016 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) Per my reason above 🔼
 * 2) per my comments below
 * 3) - Per Baby Luigi
 * 4) Until we figure out a solid way of determining which generic enemy characters get articles, I think it's best to merge these Wigglers.

Oppose

 * 1) The Wiggler article serves as a species page, which covers each officially recognized appearance of the Wiggler. When a Wiggler is given a specific role in a game or appearance such as appearing as a boss, they are treated as an individual character which is separate from the generic species, such as the Wiggler enemies in Super Mario World. For example, Wiggler (Super Mario Sunshine) is also a separate article. But it is given a brief section on the Wiggler page to cover a variation or character as part of the species, and then a reference is made to the main article. I believe this should always be done when Wigglers are treated as a character rather than having a common appearance such as an enemy. Sharing the same name isn't a deciding reason to merge two separate articles.

Comments
YoshiKong: So if we give a article for each time Wiggler appears as a boss, should we do the same when Wiggler appears as a playable character and give it a page each appearance of Wiggler as a playable character?-- 19:06, 23 June 2016 (EDT)


 * This issue has been discussed in a past proposal. I agree with the opposing arguments there. 19:41, 23 June 2016 (EDT)
 * Your decision to oppose goes against a lot of what has been established in the wiki. For example, various Koopa Troopa plays specific roles in Mario Party, especially in Mario Party 4 where there's an outfitted Koopa Troopa who's the host (there's a proposal that failed to gain traction because of some dispute, despite that the game clearly intended them to be their own characters). Another example is a single Dry Bones appearing as a boss in Mario Party DS, where bio descriptions specifically list the Dry Bones as his own character in the game, where they use singular pronouns to describe him. In the Mario Baseball games, there's a specific Lakitu who plays the role of the referee, complete with his own dialogue and personality, as well as the only Lakitu appearing in the game. There's a single character called Pink Boo in Mario Party 5 where she was given her own personality as well as even given a gender pronoun, making her technically separate from her species. Calling to split all generic subjects who have been having a unique role at one point unnecessary complicates piping, and I believe it's better off to have articles such as the Wigglers from the RPGs be merged with the general Wiggler article, as, aside from the personality, the single Wiggler is just as relevant as those aforementioned characters I mentioned, yet I don't see the other enemy characters getting split any time soon. Hell, the playable Lakitu character from Mario Kart 7 doesn't even have his own article because the game bios acknowledge that he's the same guy as the guy who held races in the past despite his different shell color from the Lakitu referee. I know Mario Party is a pretty ubiquitous mention here, but it, alongside the RPGs, are the game series most defined for giving generic enemies specific roles and characters, so, we can't ignore what those two game genres did to the generic characters. 20:01, 23 June 2016 (EDT)
 * Pink Boo's gender and personality were introduced in Mario Party 6, not 5. Nitpicking aside, shouldn't this proposal include the Wiggler from Sticker Star? It and the one from Paper Jam are so similar anyway, there's no reason to merge one and not the other. 20:45, 23 June 2016 (EDT)
 * Yeah, probably. Giving all of the Wigglers their own page also unnecessarily complicates piping and navigation. Keeping those appearances all under one article is sufficient enough. 20:51, 23 June 2016 (EDT)

My question is, what makes a character a character worthy of an individual article? What is this "specific role"? The example (Wiggler (Super Mario Sunshine)) provided is a weak one: this one has a drastically different appearance (it also turns into sand when defeated) and has a different Japanese name. 21:05, 23 June 2016 (EDT)
 * There's the Mario Party Advance characters... 22:07, 23 June 2016 (EDT)
 * According to Time Turning (here), they get articles cause "they're found in unique circumstances, interact with the player in a unique manner compared to other games, have unique dialogue, give unique items and quests..." In a sense, I understand that, but at the same time I feel like there are plenty of characters who meet these requirements. Many of the characters in Mario Super Sluggers have unique personalities, outright challenge the player to missions, a few give quests to the player. I'm not fully sure, but do we have a real way of determining which generic characters get articles? I mean characters from most RPGs are exceptions for their more unique designs, actual names and such, but what of the characters who differ very little from their parent species? 23:09, 23 June 2016 (EDT)
 * I think for characters that differ very little from their parent species, we just assume they're a member of that species and list information about them in the parent species article. Of course, Goombob, Goombetty, and Akiki will still keep their own pages, but for the other members, I think they should be remerged. The logic that Time Turner gives can be applied to pretty much anything with a dialogue and a role, including the Wiggler giving out hootenannies in Mario Party 3, the Lakitu in Mario Kart 7, the Bob-omb host for Mario Party 4's duels, the Para-Beetle in Super Mario Momotarō, and a lot of characters in Mario Super Sluggers. Keeping their articles because Goombob, Goombetty, and Akiki have their articles doesn't seem like a great justification for me. There also raises the question for articles like Yoshi, Toad, Boom Boom, and maybe even Fry Guy but whole confusion about the identities of characters named after their species is a tricky question and frequent contentious issue in this wiki. 19:49, 24 June 2016 (EDT)
 * Honestly, the fact that Akiki, Coach, Goombetty, Goombob, and Hulu have articles should be reason enough for the rest to have articles. The characters with more generic names play exactly the same role as the ones with names, so to sweep them aside solely for their name is incredibly inconsistent. I wouldn't agree with citing other games, either, since, as far as I can tell, this is the only game to give distinct, non-general names to some of its NPC's while also giving general names to other NPC's. This game is the one setting the track record for others to follow. Beyond that, per the stuff I've said every other time this has been brought up.
 * also it's time turner
 * The names and appearance make all the difference, though, in the Mario Party Advance case. How do you know that these names are as distinct? What about Rex, Thwomp, and Dino-Torch in Super Mario-Kun (though I do think the baby Boo, the Thwomp's grandfather, its mother, and the Buzzy Beetle boss should get their own articles)? The Koopa Troopa in the Super Show that's in the same group as Mouser and Tryclyde (Mouser has his own article though)? They are named like that, you think they should get their own articles? The characters are referred to their species name. They also differ very little from their parent species. What's wrong with the alternative to make them a redirect to a section in their parent species's articles? Generic referrals are shaky at best and alleged consistency don't really convince me that much. 20:25, 24 June 2016 (EDT)

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