Talk:Birdo

Gender
Birdo and Yoshi both are genderless. 24.187.191.151 22:52, 24 January 2013 (EST)
 * Yeah, no. - 23:27, 24 January 2013 (EST)
 * I called nintendo, and I did get the answer that birdo was genderless...not sure about yoshi however. 23.16.104.17 20:08, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
 * I also work for Nintendo and am the President of the United States. What's your point? Where's your proof? Nintendo hasn't formally confirmed that Birdo is genderless. Let's leave it as it is.
 * I was just saying, I wasn't asking for the page to be edited in such way.

I think the birdo in spinoffs is a girl but in various other games it is genderless or male. --Poponana2 (talk) 23:13, 2 January 2014 (EST)

The Condition of Birdo's Page
It is repetitive to state that Birdo lacks a speed boost twice throughout her page. This is stated in the Mario Kart Wii section and the Trivia section. Should this be fixed? Secondly shouldn't every single "she" pronoun on Birdo's page be changed to it? The reason why I am bring this infamous topic up again is because previous discussions in Birdo's talk page states that "her" gender is unconfirmed in America. If this is true and has been announced by a Nintendo representitive, this page needs to be revised entirely to match accurate documented information. Also if this idea is to be taken into consideration, new sources relevant to this situation need to be found and documented. Lastly, if Birdo's gender is unconfirmed, that information needs to be validated in her gender section; if all of this turns out to be accurate, the "gender section" needs revisions and needs to be updated with accurate information. (The section's current state is fairly vague in terms of describing many facts about Birdo's gender.) User:FireFlower
 * The constellation information in Mario Party 9 that is referring to Birdo uses a 'her'. MarioComix (talk) 05:00, 13 June 2013 (EDT)
 * There have been numerous discussions about Birdo's gender. On the archived Birdo talk page, there's 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 sections that address it, plus the section above this section on this page, and not one, not two, but three proposals about it. Aside from some earlier indecision, everything has been in agreement that for all intents and purposes, she's a female, and female pronouns will be used from her on this wiki. Using "it" when referring to sapient beings is really inappropriate and while SSBB may have committed that faux pas, we're not going to do that here. Also, while SSBB and some unconfirmed Nintendo representative speaking on the telephone (hardly an announcement) say she's genderless, the vast majority of English-language Mario releases call her female, last I checked, and our article reflects that majority rule, rather than the few exceptions, one of which can't be verified. The Gender sections does mention SSBB and the original SMB2 stuff; perhaps some more games besides M&L:SS could be cited to back up the "most of the time NoA and NoE call her a girl" point, and more info on non-English versions would make the section even more informative (like the Vivian page), but while it could be expanded, the section's current body of info is neither outdated nor obstructively vague. Long story short, Birdo's gender is not unconfirmed: most English sources say she's female and that's what we're going with; if anyone wants to change the wiki's stance on this controversial matter, it'll need to be attempted via a TPP or a Proposal, rather than an informal discussion. - 11:30, 13 June 2013 (EDT)

Okay thank you. Is Birdo a male in Japan though? User:FireFlower
 * I believe Birdo is a male in Japan, yes. However, this wiki is geared towards English, and especially North American, versions of games, so the majority of pages would follow what the NOA version of the game says. MarioComix (talk) 17:55, 13 June 2013 (EDT)
 * Well, going by what little info we have, it sounds like she's meant to be physically male, but dresses (and acts and probably talks) like a girl, and either wants to be female (SMB2) or fully identifies as female (Captain Rainbow). Again, having more info would be helpful for nailing it down, although I suspect it's not meant to be taken seriously either way... - 19:48, 13 June 2013 (EDT)

Suspecting Birdo is male in Japan and having American sources say Birdo is female makes no sense and is bound to make the controversial matter more questionable. '''If Birdo actually is male in Japan, then Birdo is male in all the games, simply because all of the nations obtain their merchandise from Japan.  Despite all of this, are their any''' Japenese representitives or sources stating she is female? Also, if Nintendo wanted or knows Birdo by a male, why is her appearance so feminine if she is male? User:FireFlower
 * The Japanese versions do not overrule the other languages: everything is canon and of equal importance and validity. The gender section deals with the conflicting story, which is the best we can do; the rest of the page treats her as a girl, partly because it's an English database and if we have to go with something, we'll go with that (similar to how we go with the latest story when something's been retconned), but also because transgender males who look, act and identify as females should be referred to as female. Either way, it's the simplest and most politically correct solution. We can't be sure where in the trans spectrum Birdo falls without more info, but there's still enough evidence (including the original English localization of SMB2, before the censorship kicked in) to indicate that her chosen gender is or would be female, and while Nintendo may joke around with it, we're gonna call her a female. - 14:26, 14 June 2013 (EDT)

Okay, but no one has answered my question. Are their any Japenese sources confirming her female gender. Also on many sources I have read calling Birdo a gender confused male in The Super Mario Bros 2 instruction manual state that was an accident which caused contreversy. Secondly, the quote for Birdo's bio on Mario Kart Double Dash in Japan, is a question not a complete sentence that is stating a fact. Finally, the SMB2 manual accident is stated on Ostro's page which happens to be on this wiki. Lastly, if their are any Japense sources site them so I can view them or if thats against policy rules let me know how you can distribute them to me. User:FireFlower
 * The Ostro/Birdo mix-up has nothing to do with the validity of the "Birdo's a guy who wants to be a girl" instruction manual bio: that's way too elaborate to be an accident. The MK:DD sentence isn't a question, it's simply left hanging, rather than spelling it out, but it's pretty clear what it was talking about. I don't have any additional Japanese sources at this time to refer to; if anyone else can help with that, that'd be great. - 20:02, 16 June 2013 (EDT)

Gender - Manual source
Article states:
 * According to the North American instruction manual of Super Mario Bros. 2:
 * "Birdo thinks he is a girl and likes to be called Birdetta. He likes to wear a bow on his head and shoot eggs from his mouth."

Is that really in the NA manual? I only found this, which can also be found at wikipedia and is there said to be in the NA manual:
 * "Ostro: He thinks he is a girl and he spits eggs from his mouth." (USA manual, page 27).

So please name the page number or change it. -80.133.125.90 05:38, 28 September 2013 (EDT)


 * Page 27, but it seems that there's two versions of the manual floating around, because the one here (PDF) has the "Birdetta" line, but the one here (PDF) only has the egg-spitting part (this second one is also where Wikipedia seemingly got their info. Very odd... - 18:20, 28 September 2013 (EDT)

Is confirmed portrayal?
They're listed Birdo's voice actor. I don't think its voice actor is same as Yoshi. It's very sounds different. Birdo's voice sounds like weird noise. Is really same voice actor? Sound effect is more appropriate. Jufemia li Britannia  15:28, 1 November 2013 (EDT)
 * I highly doubt that Kazumi Totaka (the voice of the present Yoshi) voiced Birdo. Birdo sounds kinda like a voice, unlike Koopa Troopa, Goomba, and Monty Mole, so I don't know if it's computer generated or a voice. 18:51, 1 November 2013 (EDT)

Some suggestions from a transgender woman
So i'm really happy with how this wiki has addressed Birdetta's gender and pronouns. One weird slip up i noticed is that under the section on gender another transgender character, Catherine, is reffered to as male and called "he". For the sake of clarity i would recommend, whenever referencing the birth sex of an a character with transgender affiliations who was born male the wiki should used the term Designated-Male-At-Birth (or DMAB) as it clarifies birth sex while also implying that the individual may not necessarily agree with the designation. Orthodoxwaffle (talk) 20:40, 19 February 2014 (EST)
 * Thanks for the input - it's duly noted. It's good to have some guidance from actual trans persons on this matter. --Glowsquid (talk) 20:51, 19 February 2014 (EST)
 * Yeah, I can definitely get behind this. 20:56, 19 February 2014 (EST)
 * I'm a bit wary of using very specific terminology like that, seeing as we're already going a step beyond ambiguity-loving Nintendo by actually calling her transgender. But you're certainly right that the male pronouns were incorrect, and I've changed them to female. My guess is that they were holdovers from when it was argued that the Japanese version just as Birdo/Catherine as a transvestite rather than a transgender character, but the "believes she's female" point is certainly an indication that she's transgender in that version as well, and I'm surprised none of us caught that earlier. Thank you for pointing it out. - 21:07, 19 February 2014 (EST)


 * Oh i see, Catherine is the japanese name, i thought it was another character. Wait, so Nintendo named her Catherine in Japan and then the NA translation team took the already English name Catherine and changed it to "Birdetta/Birdo". Whatever possessed them to do something so bass-ackwards? Orthodoxwaffle (talk) 21:25, 20 February 2014 (EST)

so is Birdo a species now? Grand Master Gamer (talk) 13:15, 19 June 2014 (EDT)


 * Yes, since SMB2. 13:25, 19 June 2014 (EDT)

Staff ghost on Mario Kart Wii
Does anybody know why Birdo was not used a staff ghost for any of the courses in Mario Kart Wii? Davebrayfb (talk) 14:18, 31 May 2015 (EDT)
 * None of the staff picked her, I'm assuming. MarioComix (talk) 18:48, 31 May 2015 (EDT)


 * Well, yes, but why did none of the staff pick her? Davebrayfb (talk) 07:11, 1 June 2015 (EDT)
 * Unfortunately we don't have any concrete facts on that. MarioComix (talk) 23:03, 1 June 2015 (EDT)

Gender
Is the gender section really necessary? (talk|contribs) Kamek Power! 11:00, 23 July 2015 (EDT)
 * Yes.
 * Just wanted to know, thanks!

(talk|contribs) Kamek Power! 11:11, 23 July 2015 (EDT)

gender theory
I've notice that some of birdo's bows can be removed while others can't, could the ones that can't be removed the girls and the ones that can be the boys? oh P.S. Remember the birdo whose only purpose is to fire eggs so you can ride them across the waterfall? Since this one is actually helpful, could it be that it's the recurring playable character?Pikmin theories (talk) 11:18, 8 June 2016 (EDT)
 * I'm afraid this is all pure speculation and so, of no use to the wiki's articles. - 20:08, 17 March 2016 (EDT)

One question…
Despite being Yoshi's partner, has Birdo appeared in a Yoshi game? Toco Bell


 * No but Birdo is only Yoshi's partner in some select games. These include merely Mario Tennis (N64), Mario Baseball games, Double Dash and Mario Kart Wii, and Mario Party 7 and Mario Party 9 (and unofficially Mario Party 8 since this game does not indicate any official partners). This relationship does not perpetuate in nearly as many games as Daisy (to Peach) or Waluigi (to Wario) and so is not significant to the article - that is, her role as Yoshi's partner is not concrete enough to warrant adding a note that she has not appeared in a Yoshi game. MarioComix (talk) 01:06, 11 April 2016 (EDT)

Mario Power Tennis
Birdo makes a brief cameo in Mario Power Tennis in Bowser's trophy celebration scene. I'd add that in.


 * Except that's a red Birdo, and not the pink Birdo character whom this page covers. MarioComix (talk) 18:27, 24 July 2016 (EDT)

Mario tennis power tour
hey i am new here and i am wandering i looked through videos of Mario tennis power tour and i havent seen birdo there could someone put up a picture and upload it to the gallery of birdo please on a side note is it the main pink birdo or the different coloured birdos???
 * Welcome, but thing is, Birdo's not in the game at all. We don't just add photos of characters who aren't in the game(s). Even if Birdo (of any kind) is in the game, she's not important in any way. 11:50, 21 August 2016 (EDT)

On the main page it said birdo makes an npc appearance in mario tennis power tour for the gameboyadvance in the rpg story it said birdo makes an appearance when Ace and Clayarrive at peach dome if birdo is not in the game who put it up o cant see any pink birdos or multicoloured birdos try to reply back

I would like to investigate myself on this matter. I'll be looking for information. MarioComix (talk) 20:19, 22 August 2016 (EDT)

Well is there proof or a fact that Birdo is in Mario Tennis power tour it has been a month now. Mariobirdofan02


 * Unfortunately I could not find any evidence of her being in the game. MarioComix (talk) 01:13, 10 October 2016 (EDT)

Any confirmation that the different colored Birdos are one and the same?
In the Satellaview game they're identified as separate. The Advance version of Super Mario Bros 2 also implied they're separate due to having different pitched voices. Delsait (talk) 19:23, 24 January 2017 (EST)

Voice
I was noticing in mario sports superstars that birdo has better English as she is able to speak a bit telepathically such as hello and oh no. If you listen she says them in her usual honking noise ,but clearly is English. Is there a reason for someone deleting them in the brand new quotes section, if someone could leave an answer we could discuss it. Mariobirdofan02

Theme song
The article mentions 2012 Olympics being the first game to give Birdo her own theme song, but she actually had one three years earlier in Captain Rainbow. Or is that one just not counted since it isn't really a Mario game? SuperDragonRosalina (talk) 09:27, 12 May 2017 (EDT)


 * Probably it's referring to within Mario games. MarioComix (talk) 18:40, 12 May 2017 (EDT)

Mario Party: The Top 100
I have watched a lot of videos on mario party the top 100 and there is no sign of her, she is unfortunately not playable in the game. could someone show proof of her in the game or create a paragraph on the mario party segment. I just want to see if shes in the game or not. Thank you.Mariobirdofan02


 * Unfortunately it seems she only makes a small cameo in the game's Collection. Specifically, the Collection includes box art from previous Mario Party games, and so Birdo can be spotted on the box arts for 7 and 9. The same goes for Koopa Kid. (I haven't gotten far in the game, but this seems to be the only inclusion of her.) MarioComix (talk) 23:37, 11 November 2017 (EST)

Birdo is a transgirl
it's really not that hard to figure out.

Quotes
I've noticed that the quotes section for birdo is increasing and there are loads of other games where she has dialogue in. Should we maybe start up a quotes page for birdo, a lot of other characters have a quotes page so why don't we start up one for birdo? Mariobirdofan02

This Birdo's page miss all informations about her playable appearance in Super Mario Strikers and Mario Strikers Charged.
This Birdo's page miss all informations about her playable appearance in Super Mario Strikers and Mario Strikers Charged. The reference about these 2 games are missing in the description and also in the "List of appeareance by date" section. Can you please autorise me to change it. I also have to change information in Dr. Mario World's "pre-release and unused content" section based on in-game data informations.
 * To edit this page, you'd also need to be autoconfirmed, which means you need to make at least another eight edits, but that information does not go on this page as this one is about the character or singular appearances of the species- this information is already included in its proper place on the Birdo (species) page. BBQ Turtle (talk) 09:39, March 29, 2020 (EDT)
 * That all being said, though, it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to merge the character and species pages outright, as they're in a wishy-washy place like Wiggler. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 14:10, March 29, 2020 (EDT)
 * Except Birdo as a character is always the pink one, and one hardly finds a lone pink Birdo in the audience. (As in, if there's an audience of Birdos, they're almost always the other colours.) MarioComix (talk) 17:04, March 29, 2020 (EDT)
 * . You know how Nintendo's said that not all Yoshis and Toads with the species name are necessarily the same as each other? Same principle applies. Unlike those, however, Birdos haven't appeared in a relevant capacity as a singular character and species at the same time other than SMB2 (which is covered fairly equally on both pages regardless), negating any real benefit this doesn't but hypothetically could have. It's like what I said on Boom-Boom's talk page, it's all developer interpretation per game. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 17:37, March 29, 2020 (EDT)
 * Not just SMB2. Mario Kart Tour features both the pink Birdo and a light-blue Birdo as playable characters. Also, in Mario Super Sluggers, a game where Birdo is playable, you can see variously-colored Birdos in cutscenes. 17:41, March 29, 2020 (EDT)
 * Problem with the MKT thing is that it's formatted in the exact same manner as the "costume" characters, indicating a similar view. MSS is admittedly a different situation, though given one of those is merely a background element, that hardly counts as a "relevant capacity" for the species any more than the multitude of Toadsworths and DKJrs in MKDD. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:02, March 29, 2020 (EDT)
 * It's not just that there are multiple different-coloured Birdos in the audience in Mario Superstar Baseball, and Sluggers, but they also make a point of having the only pink Birdo in the game be the playable captain. Also, the fact that Birdo is specifically invited to Baseball Kingdom in the opening of Sluggers alongside Mario, Luigi, Yoshi, Daisy, and...Red Toad, at least points to her being more developed as an individual - especially when you look at the cutscenes for the game and find that, again, the only pink Birdo is the Birdo. There's also the situation in Sochi 2014, where "Team Birdo" could have consisted of four pink Birdos, but they chose to give each a different colour and put the pink one as the lead.
 * Basically, if this goes through, it could open up a whole other can of worms - which appearances should be on Yoshi's "individual" page and which should be on his "species" page, including appearances in NSMBW? What about Toad, when we've seen instances of both Toads with matching spot and vest colours, as well as multiple Toads who look the same as "the" Toad? Then there's the ambiguity between Magikoopa and Kamek, and even the multiple Petey Piranhas of Daisy's Garden. I think our current logic for determining individuality is fine and works. MarioComix (talk) 02:31, March 30, 2020 (EDT)
 * The Yoshis and Toads have had plenty of relevance as both a character and a species. Birdo really hasn't. Most of the time when she appears, she's just kinda there. While the MSB pages are an exception, it's not like the playable Wiggler in MK7 is the Wiggler from SM64, or from MPT, or from BiS, or from DT, or from PMSS, or from MLPJ. Also, while most cases are ambiguous, the SMRPG pretty much can't be the same as the SMB2 Birdo...and one source calls the MKW Birdo the same as the SMRPG one. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 10:29, March 30, 2020 (EDT)
 * Well, up until MSB, Birdo was basically portrayed as a sole pink individual. Then games such as MSB and MSS include high proportions of Birdos in the audience, all of them not pink. While there are only a few of these games where the Birdo species are delineated from the main pink Birdo, including in Sochi 2014, I think it's upon us to include these rather than strike these out as the exception. The difference with Wiggler is we have several instances of seeing multiple Wigglers at the same time, indicating their presence as a species. Pink Birdo stands out as an individual in almost all of her appearances. And if we're taking into account RPGs as some kind of "continuity", I have to bring up that classic trivia point that someone kept bringing back about Petey Piranha - that Petey Piranha existed in the past and is therefore much older than the Mario bros. It's gone now, precisely because the exact continuity in the RPGs doesn't really matter - supporting characters can be used to play a certain role in the story, especially as a boss, so Birdo being a "newborn" isn't exactly relevant. MarioComix (talk) 18:06, March 30, 2020 (EDT)
 * Except in early spinoff media, where Birdos were only a primarily pink species. Also, again, the audience thing really isn't that relevant due to Waluigi Stadium's usage of characters en masse. Birdos are also in MKW's audience. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:27, March 30, 2020 (EDT)