Talk:Pre-release and unused content

I think we add sources these beta elements

Good news everyone, I found a site with tons of images of Mario Beta Elements, among others. -- Sir Grodus

Since all the images on the page seem to be kind of, crowded together maybe a gallery should be made for them or something. -- Sir Grodus

Good idea. Paper Jorge

Super Mario RPG
I thought it's save space putting all Unused Enemies together instead of individual. Two new ones discovered, Juju and Chompweed. Chompweed was in the game, but as an obsticle and the game data shows it was going to be a enemy you fight.

Well, putting them all on one image makes the image smaller on the page

That's where clicking on it works, I got some real good finds in it.

I recently discovered a Battle Stage not used in the game, but in the data.

Super Mario Sunshine
Is there really a different human girl or is someone getting Peach confused? If there is a girl, could someone please provide a picture or a link?----

There was a link to a video once. Someone removed it? Anyway it's not Peach. Paper Jorge

Is there any chance you could find it for me? I'm curious about what she looked like or if she was doing anything important.----

Nothing important she was just looking at Mario. But it's a video, so you need a good computer to see it. Paper Jorge

No one removed it. It's still there. Click where it says "Source". Paper Jorge

Wow! That was very missable! Thank you.----

You're welcome :p. Paper Jorge

Donkey Kong Beta Elements
Inspired by this page I decided to create a Donkey Kong Beta Elements page, check it out if you want... and yes this is a small cry for attention. -- Sir Grodus

??? and the Laser Suit
According to the Super Mario World section of the article, there's a hidden level in Donut Plains called "???" and with it comes an item known as the "Laser Suit". It isn't that I don't believe that or anything, but its source is a broken link (probably just a mistake). It also sounds more like a game secret than a Beta Element, but I suppose I don't know exactly what the article means by "hidden level"... I suppose it could be a beta/test level featuring an unused item... I sort of want to know if it's legit, and, if so, get a good link to the source. --YellowYoshi398 21:54, 19 January 2007 (EST)


 * Well, it's definately not a secret in the final version of the game. I was wondering about this too. It seems pretty out there. -- Son of Suns
 * fake --Galvanic 08:06, 3 January 2008 (EST)

Beta Delfino pictures
I found tons of pictures of "Beta Delfino" but I can't add them. (Don't know why). Google Super mario beta images to find them. Guy who is NOT signing his comment on purpose. 14:47, 16 February 2007 (EST)

I see you got bailed, Max.. Why can't you upload them?

Don't know. always says the text, not the pic.

Click the red text.

OK, I'll try... Maxlover2 20:36, 19 February 2007 (EST) Ha! I signed!


 * Sigh...

This is a page where citing sources is VERY important..Mada Mada Dane

Is the flying screenshot actually beta?
I know for a fact that in multiplayer, everybody can fly. Klaus Kratchet

For which game?----

Whoops! Super Mario 64 DS. Klaus Kratchet

not like that. Max2 read the talk.

That picture is more like a promotional screenshot rather than a beta one. I would still consider it beta though. Confused

P.S. I've played Mario Circuit in MKDS (w/ Action Replay) It also has more Item boxes, and the Chain Chomp is gone.

Luigi's Mansion
I've heard that there are a ton of Beta things... but can't find a reliable source. Anyone know of one? I want to make a new section.

Search Luigi's Mansion Beta on Youtube. 14:20, 26 August 2007 (EDT)

Ok... not exactly what you'd call "reliable" :P but OK.

Fix Super Mario World!
MINIMARIOLOVER10: Some guy made a link for the Lakitu and blue bird on the overworld source just shows a white background with text saying "OH SNAP!''.

D'oh, it was working when I added it. Gofer

MINIMARIOLOVER10: Well fix it!

I can't fix a website I don,t own. Gofer

MINIMARIOLOVER10: I meant try to find another site that has this. That or get rid of the source before people like me begin thinking it was a prank.

'Kay, found it. Gofer

The Yoshi Shroom
Judging by a third sprite of the Yoshi Mushroom, I think it was going to be used as a parachute making falls alot slower. PP (walkazo's brother)

The Ladder Pixl
It seems to me like the Ladder Pixl might be a beta version of Carrie. After all, it does slightly resemble a platform and has Carrie's wings. While I know it isn't be possible to obtain Carrie at that time, Tippi is also in that same screenshot despite that she should be kidnapped. --Akruru

Idea
why miamoto don't use the unnameds kongs on DK Bongo Blast a rumor of DK Barrel Blast

Look in some games.
There could be beta elements just hidden around out of reach. Like the train set in Toy Time Galaxy.

I fixed the Glad and Calm Goomba Part.
Normal Enemies don't have HP in the game.

Glad Goombas would probably move around and bounced (or dancing as the glossary says about most Glad Enemies)

Calm Goombas would just sleep, until Princess Peach gets near them and act like a normal Goomba afterwards.

Mewtwo
Can anybody source the Mewtwo in original SSB romour? --HyperToad 14:07, 7 December 2007 (EST)

Mario Galaxy Note
I saw in a pre-release demo video for Galaxy that there was a hidden Life Mushroom at the beginning of Honeyhive Galaxy. In the game itself, though, it was a 1-Up Shroom. --Galvanic 08:09, 3 January 2008 (EST)

melee
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n01/n64/software/nus_p_nalj/smash/flash/1005/index.html Thats were i found the zelda locked image --Blue Koop 21:31, 26 March 2008 (EDT)

In Super Smash Bros. Brawl
When I play the Super Smash Bros. Brawl, It was Princess Peach that transformed into a trophy by Wario and Zelda and Kirby on the Warp Star. Does that count as a Beta Element?
 * No, cause this depends who you save from petey

Could someone please put in that DK's symbol for Brawl was originally going to be different?
http://www.mariowiki.com/Talk:Super_Smash_Bros._Brawl/Archive_2#Change_the_DK_symbol.21

Paper Mario
Um... http://themushroomkingdom.net/pm_pre.shtml

I found some more beta screenshots of Paper Mario Superjustin 17:20, 10 May 2008 (EDT)

Beta Items in Paper Mario
Um... I'm working on an article about beta items and key items, which is here until I'm done. But it's sorta long, so I don't know whether to put it here or to give it a new article. Opinions? 21:34, 1 June 2008 (EDT)

Fix Super Mario World!
It's there, but can only be seen when editing the page <_> 9 June 2008 05:52 (GMT +01)

Fix this page !
Someone should put the games on this page in order in order.
 * Instead of whining that something isn't right, why don't you fix it yourself? There's a reason for why the wiki can be edited by anyone -_-. --Blitzwing 07:23, 13 June 2008 (EDT)

Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door Music
Where it is said that a beta piece of music is probably a boss theme, the likelihood is that, in actuallity, is is a beta 'File Select Screen' theme. The name for the file in-game is 'sys_mmc1_32K'. The 'sys' denotes a pre-game sequence, such as Title Music, or the prologue, and I'm guessing the 'mmc' stands for memory card.

Has anyone solid evidence that the music is a beta boss theme?

Nope, not as far as I know. Anyway, plz sign comments with ~ .GreenKoopa - Comments or questions?

error
as a matter of fact, donkey kong is playable on mario and sonic at the olympics --http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/1526/tucayosz9.png 15:38, 15 July 2008 (EDT)

uh...no. #Yoshitheawesome

BETA PARTNER?
can anyone tell me how to get this beta partner in paper mario the thousand year door? User:Mario rex33


 * I'd be willing to bet that no one really knows, since it isn't sourced and, who added it here is inactive.  Also, that was his/her only edit.    Furthermore, Google isn't giving me any results. I'm thinking this is fake, so I'm going to remove it ... Incidentally, there was a Beta Partner in the first Paper Mario.   17:47, 6 August 2008 (EDT)

Realy? add the info to the article(Paper Mario). -Nerdy Guy


 * It's already there. O_o It's only Goombaria though, not a new character.  15:06, 13 August 2008 (EDT)

Sorry, I didn't know that's what you ment. -Nerdy Guy

64 Beta
I found this video of many Super Mario 64 Beta elements [] Should we take note of the differences in the video? -Nerdy Guy


 * Go nuts, but be careful of Toad's Tool 64 users making fakes. (The first of those videos is an obvious fake, #4 and #5 also look pretty dodgy to me.)  20:27, 15 August 2008 (EDT)

Debug Rooms of PM
Could someone who has the info please add how to access the rooms? I assume it's only possible by hacking, but I don't actually know, and I don't want to add unsourced info. Thanks!

Super Mario Galaxy Beta Models
If you have any questions/issues about it, ask me here.

The Super Mario Sunshine model I found is exactly the same model in Super Mario Sunshine. The model in Super Mario Sunshine also has the tropical shirt, and it is removed from the model in-game- the shirt is not separate. Also in Super Mario Sunshine, FLUDD is separate from Mario in the models. And the Geniehand's blue color and yellow band is exactly the same as the Disney's Aladdin genie, and the name "Geniehand" is just common sense.

Is This Beta?
-Nerdy Guy


 * Yeah. Never seen the GB Horror act like that before. 22:24, 8 September 2008 (EDT)

And these? -Nerdy Guy (Again)


 * Yes. 02:19, 10 September 2008 (EDT)

Super Mario 64 Almost completely incorrect
While I'd like to say some of this is true, 80% is wrong, wrong, wrong. Now I'm no expert, so I need sources to back up these claims. Especially for the Luigi and the FX chip thing; those are really sketchy and probably incorrect. Notes:

textures with lava outside the castle instead of water; Never heard this one. Proof? two text-circles; Wtf does this mean? a leaf; leaves come off of trees, doofus! strange stars and moons symbols; these are found in the TTM slide... loads of unused wall and floor textures; more proof please? a strange unused palm tree; this one is used in SSL. I can't believe people are this stupid. And if it's different, pictures of TT64. an scary looking door with a bat alá Bowser; it has a jolly roger (skull and crossbones) on it. ;P and a beta tree; They already said this. Pictures? 21:12, 19 September 2008 (EDT)


 * I've removed that. FINALLY. Also, the FX Chip and Luigi things IS correct. KingMario 16:13, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

SM64 DS Beta.
I found a beta element in Super Mario 64 DS, but I want to see what others think before I add it. When using my AR, I put in a code that makes all Goombas into Koopas. I went into Bob-omb battlefield, and some of the Koopas were red! They acted like the green ones when I first saw them, walking normally until you get close, but when I attcked on, instead of running franticly trying to find it's shell, it just kept on walking like normal until I got close. Also, you can't ride the red shell, if you dump on them or attack them, they roll in the direction you hit them in, killing anything in their path until they hit a wall.--Kirbychu 15:20, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

What code is that? 19:35, 14 October 2008 (EDT)
 * It must be something that Nintendo forgot to remove, or coulsnt remove. So I would say add it.

Super mario sunshine test level
What banana-like creature? None of the youtube videos showed it. Sure they showed something that looked like a soccer ball and could be kicked around, but I couldn't see anything moving other than some piantas and a yoshi egg with thought bubble.--YourBuddyBill 21:03, 25 November 2008 (EST)

Diddy Kong Pilot
Should we move the Diddy Kong Pilot section infromation to it's page, because the game was canceled and never released. So basicly, it's redunent to have info on a cancelled game on the Beta Elements page. Plus we have all the info we have on this page, on the Diddy Kong Pilot page, plus a screenshot of K. Rool we don't have on the Beta Elements page. This will also make room for futre games once they get relesed.

Super Mario Advanced 2 to...4? O_O
I saw who someone changed the title of the section to "Super Mario Advance 4", I changed it again ;)


 * No, it was correct before. Would you really be surprised to find SMW graphics in an SMW remake?  14:04, 2 January 2009 (EST)

DK64 Glitch Reveals Beta Room?
Everybody pretty much knows how the under island glitch in DK64 leads to being able to find a secret room, but is that room beta? I think it is, because it seems unfinished because you can jump over the computers in the room and fall onto a "black floor".


 * It's used in a cutscene. 17:22, 2 January 2009 (EST)

Galaxy Codes
What are the cheats in Super Mario Galaxy in the Purple Coins of the Deap Dark? - Lewa159

bata brawl
http://www.mariowiki.com/images/8/82/Leaked_roster.jpg

what do you think of this? is ir real? note that characters that arn't unlockable are missing and wario is in the wrong slot. can someone please tidy this up (cut out tv, etc) and add to article. thanks :) Lu-igi board 12:17, 12 March 2009 (EDT)

PM: TTYD Beta Item Shop label reappearance
The beta labels for item shops in TTYD are the same as the final ones in Super Paper Mario, so I edited that in. Ninja   Mario  19:10, 15 March 2009 (EDT)

How to play 0xXXXXXX levels?
--Bowser the Shredder 11:55, 4 May 2009 (EDT)

Meaning the Super Mario World levels? 09:45, 5 May 2009 (EDT)

Yes. --Bowser the Shredder 07:29, 23 June 2009 (EDT)

Beta Mario Kart Wii Items
http://www.spriters-resource.com/other_systems/mkwii/sheet/23542 I think I just found some items from the prototype MKWii. Superjustin 19:06, 4 May 2009 (EDT)
 * Very strange. Someone should should also check this out.

I also found this: http://www.spriters-resource.com/other_systems/mkwii/sheet/23874 http://www.spriters-resource.com/other_systems/mkwii/sheet/23541 These were all made by Girrrtacos, and since he's a member of the wiki, i think he's the one we should ask about these, but they look all like beta stuff+ actual stuff combined (since are rips) MasterBlaster3000


 * In fact, the "beta items" you're considering (fireballs, wiggler and, possibly, chain chomp) are found in the game, although they appear only in a game mode, the tournaments (or hacking). Girrrtacos has added other characters on such sheet from other games.

The beta characters (Petey, Hammer Bro, etc) are beta, aswell as the Chain Chomp (That Japanese symbol pretty much means "beta"). -Girrrtacos

Beta Riverside Station Song
That first unused Thousand Year Door song, when its file name is translated, it says something like "train station". This could be a beta song for Riverside Station. Someone else should look into this


 * Indeed. The filename is "stg eki1 32k.stm", and 駅 eki means station. Riverside station's indoor areas are referred to with "eki" by the game. Outdoor areas get "hom" instead. The final riverside station theme is called "stg hom1 32k.stm". So, I'd guess that the music was intended to change to this when you moved indoors. ...I'm glad they didn't go with this music, it really doesn't fit.


 * Incidentally, the other unused music is "sys mmc1 32k.dsp", which I'd guess stands for "Memory Card. 17:32, 10 May 2009 (EDT)

Very slow...
On my PC the scrolling slow down. Propably because these all PM:TTYD beta things. Can somebody split this?

Beta Super Mario World
This very large glitchy bush depends of type of level... (it's still a background but it's look other way)

I decided to list all of these effects (also - ignore these 1/2/3, this is because of SMW programming to make more objects):

Era64 09:55, 23 June 2009 (EDT)
 * Grassland: very glitchy bush
 * Castle 1: the middle of the Stone Block
 * Lineguide/Mushrooms: the background from lineguide fragment
 * Undergrounds: really glitchy background (this because it's use block reserved to "Castle 2", which isn't look good with Undergrounds)
 * Switch Palace: ???, this look with sense, even the blocks used by this background are unused. This really looks like BETA. It looks like net. It's depends of background color setting. (most of these "backgrounds" use foreground or shared colors).
 * Ghost House 1: Yes... it's background with sense... but the graphics of it are used... looks best with black backdrop. Maybe it has to be used in falling Sunken Ghost Ship because it look. But this falling part uses Castle graphics... strange... (it's sense because SMW vertical background bug). Wait... in the background levels take two screens... maybe it's use of this...
 * Castle 2: Fragments of canvasses
 * Forest: It's only bush fragment. Bushes looks glitchy in forest tileset, even through they can be inserted...
 * Ghost House 2: Tile used by this isn't meant to be used by foreground/background, but by sprites.

false characters
It said marth, mewtwo, ash ketchem, diddy kong, gooe (sic), james bond, mr. saturn, mew, ganondorf, wario, toad, banjo and kazooie, and sukapon were supposed to be in super smash bros. I removed them. Was I wrong? Plasma12 00:50, 25 July 2009 (EDT)

I am Zero! What the hell are you even talking about!? Zero signing out.

The James Bond franchise isn't even property of Nintendo, so you're right, unless it had references from a reliable source. -- Yoshario'''

I am Zero! Ok, I know what your'e talking. Who the hell put all those stupid and random characters in the beta elements!? Zero signing out.

Questionable Paper Mario: TYD elements?
I saw the beta elements here and saw a whole bunch of unsourced beta elements. I can understand the explanation of the text and I've seen all the graphics before, but what exactly is this beta 9? Why are there more fights in this beta 9 (including Prince Mush!), and why aren't there tattles for this information? Is beta 9 in "circulation," because I've certainly never heard of it. Or is it like the Ocarina of Time "beta quest," which ended up being garbled data taken from cutscene codes?

With that out of the way, I have two contributions to this section. Firstly, I'm surprised the hidden badges aren't listed there in greater detail. You can actually unlock some unused badges with an Action Replay, including - believe it or not - a fully functional Debug Badge! It has no name and I don't believe it uses BP, but if you use it Mario (and I think his partners) will be invincible. Mario will always perform a timed hit and make the audience go wild for you. He will also always dodge an attack without taking damage. However, if you do that multiple bounce attack, he'll be stuck jumping on that enemy forever. I no longer have the Action Replay to look up the code, but I got it off GameFAQs a while back and I still have a save file with it if you want me to check it out again.

Secondly, there's a YouTube video I remember seeing sometime after the Japanese version was released. This seemed to be Japanese footage, but since this wasn't listed in any Japanese / English differences anywhere, so I'm assuming it's something that's a beta element. Do you know that empty house in the back alley of Rogueport, just north of the central area? The one with the flies in it and I think a Trouble Center fellow wanted to live in it? In this video, there was police tape in this house! Not that "do not cross" police tape, but that white police tape in the middle of the floor outlining the body in a crime scene, shaped like a human! The implication being that someone was murdered, obviously. Very un-Mario, but it was there, and that's why I'm wondering if this is a localization change (Japan generally finds more things acceptable than us sheltered folk) or something taken out entirely. I'm sure I can find that video if I tried. It qualifies for a surreal beta element... Probably just a mere aesthetic change and nothing important to the plot.

Anyway, that's all I have to say regarding Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door. Hopefully someone could tell me what this beta 9 is and verify the police tape thing. LinkTheLefty 13:55, 19 August 2009 (EDT)


 * Beta 9 is currently owned by one of our users, User:Stooben Rooben. You can talk to him for more info about it. Yes, it may be questionable practice to go on the word of a single person on the internet. As for why there's no tattles, keep in mind that the beta tattles that are present are unused data in the final game, not info from Beta 9 (This may not have been clear, sorry.) Therefore there doesn't need to be any correlation between the two. 14:35, 19 August 2009 (EDT)


 * And yes, it seems that some white marks removed from that room. Localization teams suck. 15:13, 19 August 2009 (EDT)


 * Ah, I see. Thanks for clearing that up. I just find it fishy that Prince Mush was programmed as a fully functional boss at one point (and is SORELY missing from the final game at that), yet in the final game no one seems to find any of these missing battle frames and yet we can reconstruct so much other beta material. But it's understandable in the end, I suppose. Also, now that I re-read the article, it seems that the same Debug Badge was also in the original Paper Mario, so I guess it may be a remainder of the original game (obviously edited for the applause actions). Lastly, the picture - it's actually kind of funny to me since I see now that it's a Toad, but there's also what seems to be dry blood on the floor that I don't remember being in the game! Interesting. Is this your picture, or know the person who took it? I really think it should submitted to The Mushroom Kingdom website for archive purposes. LinkTheLefty 15:05, 20 August 2009 (EDT)


 * I think that Batchiri Command / Right On! was actually something else. It's just that if it was intended to be used only for debug purposes, then several of its properties are inconsistent. For example, why make it use 8 BP? Why give it the flashing バッチリ sign? I think it was actually intended to be a real badge. But, since it makes gameplay trivial, and hangs when you use Power Bounce, it was scrapped. As for that image, I screencapped this. I guess I'll go ahead and submit it to TMK.


 * On a totally unrelated note (but still relevant to the page,) what's up with Kamek in Japan? 16:38, 20 August 2009 (EDT)
 * Oh, if you mean that Mario Kart 64 edit I made, I did that because, since Magikoopas are known as Kameks in Japan, the game is developed in Japan and there was a lone Magikoopa racer, it's pretty much a given that this was intended to be Kamek anyway (like the SMRPG Magikoopa). That, and at the time of the character's scrap he'd have been known as Kamek rather than Magikoopa anyway, based on these facts. But if you guys are opposed to that change for whatever reason then I won't argue with it. LinkTheLefty 20:10, 20 August 2009 (EDT)


 * I was really just interested personally, since I'd noticed that every Magikoopa was called Kamek, didn't know why. I think your edit's fine. 22:13, 20 August 2009 (EDT)

Rabbit
I'm beginning to doubt that the "purple rabbit" is real. Because I was playing my copy of SM64DS and the angle and shading of my DS screen made the pink rabbits that Mario has to catch appear purple in color. Besides, the picture appears rather distorted anyway so it could be a hoax. And if I'm wrong, and this was already in the coding then I'm wrong just let it go... Electrobomber

Title
Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't this be called "Beta element"? (Singular form with a lowercase 'e'.) I don't recall "Beta Element" being a proper name, and we normally don't have articles with a plural title. 15:28, 29 September 2009 (EDT)
 * I agree on the lowercase e, but why do you suggest to use the singular form? I mean, it just sounds strange to me since there are clearly several elements on this page ;) 15:33, 29 September 2009 (EDT)
 * Well, that part I can concur with. I guess I just mentioned the singular form because I had my new proposal on my mind. :P 15:49, 29 September 2009 (EDT)

Paper Mario 2 beta japanese element that is not translated
The first japanese text that isn't translated is an explanation of how to use the Ultra Jump... Is it really a beta element ? Koopalmier 02:59, 5 October 2009 (EDT)


 * Yes, it was in Japanese in the NA ROM, which has no capability to display Japanese characters. Therefore, it must be unused. Also, where did you get the translation you provided? 12:09, 5 October 2009 (EDT)
 * Uuuh... I translated it, I suppose ? Well, I used a translator. Koopalmier 16:54, 7 October 2009 (EDT)
 * I thought you can hack and toggle the Japanese back in, and vice versa? Though I might be thinking about Ocarina of Time... But isn't that more of a regional leftover than a true beta element? LinkTheLefty 12:08, 26 April 2010 (EDT)

Mario 64 original voice?
I've seen beta footage, and it sounds normal, higher, but normal. Was that earlier? Anyone have footage? NinjaCupcake 14:36, 7 October 2009 (EDT)

Mario vs. Donkey Kong info, and miscellaneous others (NSMB & SMS).
There needs to be a Mario vs. Donkey Kong section. We only have one for the sequel. There is actually more than enough unused material to warrant a new section. For instance, there is unused Bob-omb behavior in which they run whenever Mario picks up a hammer, but this never happens since they don't exist in the same stage. In addition, there are missing levels that appear to be unfinished working versions of the rare Japanese e-Reader levels, and - this is a big one - there is a fully functional level editor within the game's code, linking this game's development with the lost Donkey Kong Plus. This could all be seen on Unseen 64, which also had info on a leaked prototype of the sequel: http://www.unseen64.net/2010/03/13/mario-vs-donkey-kong-gba-beta-unused/

Also, there is much more to add in the New Super Mario Bros. (DS) section. For instance, there are a lot of unused elements and further code than never saw use in the finished game. There are a few glitchy or unfinished levels that have been found (five to be exact). Further analysis also shows that the early builds of the game also seemed to have ripped animations straight out of Super Mario 64 DS, such as Mario's idle pose, and his hat would fall down after him whenever he jumped like in Super Mario World: http://www.unseen64.net/2008/04/22/new-super-mario-bros-ds-beta/

Lastly, although development seems to have been abandoned, several unused models were found on the X-Cult forums regarding Super Mario Sunshine. One of these includes a version of one of the strange enemies ("Hinokuri" - I'm guessing that means "Fire Goom") seen in an early build (walking around town with long legs). It has a bunch of finished animations, such as a "hurt" one and so on, and it wore a mask that broke over time. There are a few more unseen things, such as loaded enemies and objects depending on the level (similar to Super Mario 64): http://forums.x-cult.org/topic/4929-mario-sunshine-leftovers-122509/

Just thought I'd bring this all to you guys' attention, it's noteworthy stuff. LinkTheLefty 16:16, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

Sorting
That little bar at the bottom of all the beta pages is really cluttered. We could sort it. By perhaps DK-Yoshi-Mario series? Or by console? Just an idea. --TimTamChimchar 01:02, 15 January 2011 (EST)