User talk:LinkTheLefty/Archive 6

SM64 Piranha
According to DryKirby on the P Plant talk page, regular Piranhas in SM64's JP iteration were called Chibi Pakkun Flower. Does this mean that the sleepers too were differentiated as "small?" Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 23:00, 29 January 2019 (EST)
 * NVM, they meant the fire-breather. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 23:08, 29 January 2019 (EST)

In regards to the Nipper Dandelions, fair enough, sorry! I understand the reasoning, I'm just not entirely 100% on what our policy for these kinda things are.

"Normal Pokey Doesn't Appear In The Game"
Then what, pray tell, is that scarlet thing that appears in that one mission of Dusty Dune? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 17:47, 31 January 2019 (EST)
 * I'll remind you that the Wiki only arrived to that through my own personal machinations. Anyways, it's certainly a "full" counterpart to the Pokey Heads in that game. I am curious as to how it fits into the concept of "Dharma," though. Do the filenames additionally match up? I know there was a collection of those.... Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 19:12, 31 January 2019 (EST)
 * Well crud buckets. Problem with splitting is that "Pokey (identifier)" would be tricky in that situation anyways, because if we consider them different subjects, they're both exclusive to that game (unless the MKW tournament thing is the same as "Coco Sanbo"). Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 20:35, 31 January 2019 (EST)
 * It may very well be that "coco" and "daruma" are themselves intended more as identifiers than an indication of a derivative. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 22:16, 31 January 2019 (EST)
 * Not really. They're both Pokeys, both act like different previous iterations of Pokey, one's designed to resemble the then-normal design for a Pokey, but huge. It's more of a "big is a generic subtype across enemies" thing. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 23:04, 31 January 2019 (EST)
 * I think there were actually some in Double Dash in the desert course, iirc....mighta been Wii's Dry Dry Ruins, though. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:01, 1 February 2019 (EST)

SMRPG Magikoopa
Still the intro appears to show it leading a battalion of Terrapins, indicating it was an individual of some importance. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 17:15, 1 February 2019 (EST)

YKDDP guide vs. SMUSA guide
Recently, a bunch of images were uploaded for YKDDP/SMUSA enemies, and attributed to a help guide for the former. However, on the talk page for the SMB2 gallery, you gave it a name that stated it was for SMUSA (and it is indeed the same artwork). Is it both? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 19:57, 4 February 2019 (EST)

Skeletal Fish Guard
Speaking of it in the Boolossus talk page, you told me in the proposal that it was modified. And you said that in the english version of the game, Ocean Small Turtle had proper spacing in its internal filename rather than being CamelCase like in the original version. What's the Skeletal Fish's internal filename in the original Japanese version of the game? -- 11:37, 8 February 2019 (EST)
 * Also, what name does it gives to Lumacomète in the Prima Guide? Does he has a name, simply referred as a Luma, much like in-game, or no mention at all? -- 12:08, 8 February 2019 (EST)

About using romanized file names
It's still not OK to use that as a reference to claim it's a name change that happened then, when it's the same JP name it had since the beginning. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 21:56, 11 February 2019 (EST)
 * Yes, but using a generic descriptor from a cartoon that likely no one on the production or even localization team had watched would make no sense, as it wasn't based off them, it just happens to be the same generic idea. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 22:16, 11 February 2019 (EST)
 * Red Giant Koopa Troopas did appear though. Red Giant Koopa Paratroopas didn't, though. Anyways, regarding the Paragoombas, no English name had been given in relation to a game at the time. I think it to be common sense to separate naming between media. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 23:01, 11 February 2019 (EST)
 * No, there objectively are red giant Koopa Troopas in World 4 of Super Mario Bros. 3. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 23:16, 11 February 2019 (EST)
 * A game you hadn't mentioned in several edits prior to your mention of SMB3. Anyways, a name from a guide referring to a game is more relevant than a generic description that isn't even a proper name from a cartoon. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 23:21, 11 February 2019 (EST)
 * Troopa was ambiguity, Paragoomba was "not only is 'Giant Land Para-Goomba' a cartoon-specific name that no one on any level of the creation team for SMG2 would have known about, but it's an inaccurate name due to certainly not being from Giant Land, and is more of a vague description, ie 'Para-Goombas from Giant Land.'" Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 23:34, 11 February 2019 (EST)
 * If something's clearly not based on something else, but the same basic thing (as is the case with the Paragoombas), don't give them both the same name if they're different. This does not change the fact, however, that "GIant Land Para Goomba" is not a species name, but just a generic description of Para-Goombas that were shipped specifically from Giant Land. And so what about the Wigglers and Thwomps? The Big Wigglers are named in SMG2 itself. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:13, 12 February 2019 (EST)
 * In that specific case. Pretty sure "Giant Goomba" had at least one more usage, if memory serves me correctly.... Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:20, 12 February 2019 (EST)
 * And how about in-game Color Splash breaking that by calling it a Mega Goomba, in-game? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:40, 12 February 2019 (EST)
 * Yeah that logic doesn't make that much sense to me. Unlike with the small ones, where the "normal" small ones are sometimes implied to be babies, there's no such explanation for the "normal" giant ones. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:59, 12 February 2019 (EST)

Yet other SM3DW internal filenames, Prima names, and SPP internal filenames
Hey i wanted to ask.
 * 1) What is the blue Lava Bubble's internal filename in both Super Princess Peach, and Super Mario 3D World? It's for determining what stays, and what goes.
 * 2) What are both Blindfold Boo and Security Thwomp's internal filenames in Super Princess Peach?
 * 3) What are the closest mentions of the the Fishbone-like variant from Super Mario Galaxy in the Prima guide?
 * 4) What are the closest mention of the Beamer enemies, including, the spring-like Sentry Beam, Ring Beam, Bolt Beam, one called Sentry Garage on both Super Mario Galaxy and Super Mario Galaxy 2 Prima guides. (No, i don't own the Encyclopedia but found some scans). -- 13:09, 12 February 2019 (EST)
 * Ps: What are the closest mention of the Electric Pressure if Water Shooter and Fire Cannon had generic names in the Prima? "electricity cannon" or something like that, i guess? And i remember seeing a review of the SMG2 Prima guide, with labelling Mandibug Stack as simply Mandibugs. Does it does the same for its entry, and everywhere else, along with the SMG Prima? -- 04:59, 13 February 2019 (EST)

Flurry Sunshine
They look pretty Flurry-ish to me, the "male" one even seems to have the buttons from the artwork. Additionally, given how that game uses so mny assets from the "classic" games (with Pidgit Bills even cameoing during the end), I'd say it's safe to assume they're a Flurry cameo. Particularly with the more generic snowman on the other side. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 17:25, 14 February 2019 (EST)
 * Pink one seems pretty squat to me, and there were statue camoeos of Lantern Ghosts in the King Boo Battle and Circlin' Boo Buddy-type Boos on the Shriek Mansion overworld. Anyways, when linking to VGAA, please for the love of all things good link to the specific post with the images and not just the basic site, as it is a major grind to search through. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:32, 14 February 2019 (EST)

Re: Question about source priority exception proposal
It was meant to factor in foreign names, seeing as how it started because of Hatopop, which is definitely Japanese in origin (albeit a filename used in the English game). Niiue (talk) 09:03, 17 February 2019 (EST)
 * I'd be in favor of moving the Jungle Beat enemies, especially since the English names are pretty placeholdery. As for ingame names, I think making those an exception to the source priority override might be a good idea? Niiue (talk) 09:14, 17 February 2019 (EST)
 * Sounds about right. Personally, I wouldn't mind overriding generic ingame names, but it's probably better to use those just so people don't get confused. Niiue (talk) 10:18, 17 February 2019 (EST)

Surprise Flower
Hey, how do you think we should handle the renaming of Venus Flower Trap? I'm not sure of the book lists it as one or two words, and that will make all the difference. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 21:53, 18 February 2019 (EST)
 * No idea. By the way, do you know what the true origin of artwork is? It's been alternatively labeled as Nintendo Power artwork and Super Mario Advance artwork. For all I know, it's SMUSA artwork, since I can't find a .pdf of that manual. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 22:11, 18 February 2019 (EST)
 * The proto-SMA Ninji art seems to be considered its SMW art, being in various JP guides and the pinball table. Regarding the Goomba thing, probably, but I don't feel as strongly about it. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 13:31, 20 February 2019 (EST)

More Prima mentions
Do Spiny Hermits and Venus Flower Traps, along with both types of Stretch Plants have a mention in the Prima guides? -- 07:52, 21 February 2019 (EST)
 * Also, is Baby Bowser's pet named in the Yoshi's Story Kokishi Guidebook, and does it have an artwork? -- 02:54, 22 February 2019 (EST)

Re: More Filename Request
Pulse Beam = CapBeamer. I'll hopefully get the others soon. --Hiccup (talk) 09:43, 26 February 2019 (EST)

RE: Revisiting thorny flower
Okay. 06:15, 1 March 2019 (EST)

By the way, does the SMG2 guide mention the large variant at all? The SMG guide refers to it as "giant prickly plant". 06:23, 1 March 2019 (EST)


 * Yeah, on pages 202 and 207. Since that's currently the only name we have, that's the name we go with, even if it's different from its parent species name. 22:29, 2 March 2019 (EST)

Zeldawiki
So I visited the ZeldaWiki page on my old friend Lobarrier, and the one for "Sand Crab," and am ultimately appalled at how they handle information on that site in regards to officiality hierarchy. Is that site even worth attempting to salvage at this point? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 16:45, 1 March 2019 (EST)
 * Reason I ask is that owing to the current efforts of Results May Vary to make and nurture Rare-based mediawikis with good sourcing, I figured it was about time to start getting certain other "problem areas" under control by simply starting from the ground up. Also, if they're sucking up to them so much, why the heck is A&A calling Zazack "Daira" twice a "mistake," with everything else they contain being "canon?" Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:22, 1 March 2019 (EST)
 * Apparently it's "Most recent English source." No matter what said source is. Hence why Helmethead is "Jermafenser" despite the ersatz reference in BotW through a location called Helmhead. Which I'm pretty sure is trumping the NES game's own manual, and it's not like it was a Mega Man 1 type of localization. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 19:03, 1 March 2019 (EST)
 * They don't, but they do that anyway. It's another reason why I find them incompetent. Ironic, isn't it, that a site that disparaged Zelda.com for its loose take on what was canon would themselves happily fling themselves into the same pitfalls? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 20:11, 1 March 2019 (EST)
 * And of course, there's other general inconsistency. Notably, they consider Wart distinct from Arrghus, but Hiploop the same as Helmasaur. Even though the former pair are actually more similar in terms of appearance and function. Anyways, they're likely too far down whatever rabbit hole they're on to be fixed, so I support starting anew. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 17:29, 2 March 2019 (EST)
 * I just think in general it needs reworking. There's also the sloppy splitting up of the Dodongo page. I was figuring making a new wiki entirely (and without any Gamepedia silliness). Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:26, 2 March 2019 (EST)
 * Note that I have no idea if or when I'll be able to do this, as I am currently swamped with schoolwork. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 21:29, 2 March 2019 (EST)
 * To wit: I like the way they do lists, despise the way they do game galleries, cannot stand the deliberate resizing of sprites, also can't stand the conflation of game-rendered and data-rendered models, dislike how theory-driven things on there are (though a few are admittedly plausible to be creator intent), and dislike their inconsistencies regarding when a species gets a different name, or the same name as an unrelated species. It's also a bit telling that the best-cited things on there are the names for minor CDi characters. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 21:54, 2 March 2019 (EST)
 * Been a while since I looked there, but last I checked, the way they separate boss articles between games is ridiculous. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:44, 3 March 2019 (EST)

Anyways, in the event this is done, what do you think should be done regarding the situation between the Zora types and Helmasaur King vs. Helmaroc King? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:03, 5 March 2019 (EST)
 * OoT ones were definitely intended to be the same as the classic ones (note how they occasionally do the "appearing suddenly from under the water" thing), but with Helms, I'm conflicted, especially as the Brawl trophy was seemingly written with the mind that they were particularly-different incarnations of the same thing (though that could be a Kaptain K. Rool error for all I know). And given how Gohma went from not being able to decide if it was a crab or a spider to being some sort of lava caddisfly in that game (not to mention Moblins having been dogs, pigs, oni, and rhino-aardvark things over the years), it wouldn't be too much of a stretch, as the amount of stretching already done is rather large. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 21:38, 5 March 2019 (EST)
 * I noted that, though we have yet to see what the original "pig" ones in the game look like. On another note, there's the situation between the OG Wallmaster and the later "Fallmaster." Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:03, 7 March 2019 (EST)
 * My thoughts exactly, though it's worth noting that that one early-development screenshot of OoT appeared to depict the "true" Wallmaster. My grandest aspirations if this ever gets off the ground is to replace the current Zeldawiki's slot on the NIWA bar, if possible. By the way, do you know if the Japanese ALBW guide referred to the green rat-like enemy as Kopi still? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 07:18, 7 March 2019 (EST)
 * Glowsquid showed me a link from a person who wanted to talk to me, anyways, this is a desperately in need of expanding wiki over the initial LoZ that could potentially be made something of, but before I do anything, I have to ensure I have the kind of free time necessary to deal with this. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 22:42, 7 March 2019 (EST)
 * Well that ended up being a bust. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 19:57, March 14, 2019 (EDT)
 * Take 2....or 5 or something, I don't know anymore. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 01:26, March 15, 2019 (EDT)
 * LinkTheLefty, I don't plan to use it on shoutwiki forever. I've just never set up a MediaWiki website before, and so this is a temporary solution for the time being. It's more in the context of preserving the existing info from Zelda Archive, seeing as he deleted it. I wouldn't want to manage a Zelda wiki either, since I'm far from an expert. Results May Vary (talk) 19:48, March 16, 2019 (EDT)

I don't think you're going to change how Zelda Wiki works by talking about it on Mario Wiki. If you think something should be changed, it should be discussed there (though I think they are currently avoiding any major changes due to dealing with the Gamepedia/Wikia merge). However, their naming guidelines are outlined at zeldawiki:Guidelines:Terminology. 12:26, 7 March 2019 (EST)
 * It's more honorary at this point. A majority of the staff members (probably all, but at least 80% of them) from other wikis agreed to keeping them in the alliance due to being one of the founding members. While currently with Gamepedia, one of the Gamepedia staff is also a member of the ZeldaWiki staff, which helps keeps ZeldaWiki continue as it usually does.
 * The kicker here is the recently-clarified merge of Gamepedia into "FANDOM, powered by WikiaTM ". We're still deciding how that's going to effect things, but hopefully ZeldaWiki can go independent again without too much trouble soon. 13:11, 7 March 2019 (EST)

Perhaps you can clarify for me, why even is this a situation? I can't even accurately describe it without delving into vulgarities. They split a thing which the source outright says is the same thing.....due to a lowercase generic identification. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 02:31, March 24, 2019 (EDT)
 * It seems to me that they took "the hand in the toilet [...] from Majora's Mask" to mean it's a different character named "Hand." Despite that being the exact opposite of what the source says. And of course, Hyrule Encyclopedia obvious citogenesis. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 12:25, March 25, 2019 (EDT)

SML2 items and obstacles
In the "items and obstacles" section in the SML2 section in the Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia on page 78 has a lot of items and obstacles listed that do not currently have pages on the wiki and never have been named before such as Bone Blocks, Propeller Lifts that are different from the YS ones, Bone Lifts, Flashing Blocks, Witch's Cauldrons, etc. These would all warrant pages except for the fact that all of these things are only named in the Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia which we cannot cite. I have seen that you have found internal file names for several enemies such as with the Eye Beamers so are there internal file names easily available for SML2? Thanks! 17:42, 3 March 2019 (EST)

Eye Beamer
Isn't the "Beam Planet" the hourglass-shaped structure where the lasers are coming from within holes on the planet itself? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:05, 3 March 2019 (EST)

RE:Encyclopedia error uploads
I added the images into my sandbox for now, although I will try to get admin approval to use the images in the list only. I will also ask if the lists are wanted. 11:40, 4 March 2019 (EST)
 * Regarding the deleted image, re you referring to the Electric Pressure? It was deleted due to being unused within the last 24 hours of uploading. -- 11:47, 4 March 2019 (EST)

Royal Bus Driver and something else
Hey there! i was wondering! [[media:Super Mario Kun Royal Bus driver.jpg|I've recently found a Super Mario Kun arc]], and was wondering if there was any definitive Japanese name for the Royal Bus driver... Also, i like to know what mention something has when it is not named in the Prima. I'd like to know what is the Ocean Small Turtle's mentions on the Prima guide. -- 12:29, 4 March 2019 (EST)

Invisighouls
I'll need to check to see if I still have the guide, but I do remember that page from all those years ago. It's the page that covers Hector's boss fight, if you or someone else wants to double check. 73.50.180.97 12:39, 5 March 2019 (EST)

So I just got back from visiting my parents and if the guide is anywhere, it'd be at their house; I sadly couldn't find it. I know the word of an anon probably doesn't count for much but I 100% recall the guide using that name. 73.45.209.99 14:51, 6 March 2019 (EST)

Fiery Gobblegut's name
Hi, I don't think Fiery Gobblegut's name is official either. Much like the Queen Hisstocrat situation, I'm pretty sure that the game itself uses just "Gobblegut" again as evidenced in the Snacktime for Gobblegut mission name. Could you please verify through your Super Mario Galaxy 2 Prima guide that this is correct? (P.S.: Curse you, Davisson. Again.) 20:52, 5 March 2019 (EST)
 * I would rather see the fiery version of King Kaliente be split into its own article, seeing as how we have not just the pink Hisstocrat split, but also the X bosses from the Mario & Luigi series, the latter of which are even less differentiable from their normal counterparts. 21:51, 5 March 2019 (EST)

Colored Yoshis
I still think that you should cancel this proposal and directly deal with every colored Yoshi article, not just that one, seeing as how even Doc agrees with me in that regard. 23:11, 9 March 2019 (EST)
 * Cool. I'll gladly await the replacement proposal. 09:00, 10 March 2019 (EDT)

Secret Extra SMW2 levels
You should add the boss levels in a separate "before" arrow in the extra levels, since the secret levels only exist in SMA3, and as such are not relevant to SMW2. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:30, March 20, 2019 (EDT)

Piscatory Pete
If they're called Cheep Cheeps in the English version of the YIDS book as well (like in the JP version), I really think they should be merged, especially as the design appears to be based on the rather off-model SMW sprites, and the so-called "replacement" in YNI rendering the in-game design differences pretty much moot. Not to mention how Petes are more like the other iterations of Cheeps than Flopsies are, due to following the 16x16 parameters (which in relation to layered graphics and palettes may very well relate to the odd coloration). Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 01:39, March 20, 2019 (EDT)

More filename request and Prima names
Hey there! Haven't seen you in a few days! I wanna know about something.
 * 1) What are both Dragoneel and its twin variant internal filenames in New Super Mario Bros?
 * 2) What is the Fuzzler's internal filename? I'm curious wether it has a relation to Wiggler in the internal filename (and possibly even a Fuzzy)
 * 3) What are both internal filenames of Hisstocrat, the queen Hisstocrat (Holy gods, Zack Davidson is an attacky Zack) and their minions as well?
 * 4) Regarding the Nipper Dandelion, can you double-check both guides if there is a name and/or mention for it. -- 07:54, March 20, 2019 (EDT)
 * When you'll get the Dragoneels for me, i'd ask to Alternis what are those in the Switch remake, given that he ripped models on the italian wiki. -- 13:38, March 21, 2019 (EDT)
 * And, when you meant that the Ground Urchin wasn't directly called "Urchin" in the Prima guides, do you mean that it has generic mentions, or no mention at all? -- 08:33, March 23, 2019 (EDT)
 * Also, to be sure that "Stompin' Chomp" is definitively this enemy's english name, can you please double check both guides? -- 06:12, March 25, 2019 (EDT)

SMBE approval
The lists are approved for use. 09:56, March 23, 2019 (EDT)

Wallmaster Vs. Bob-omb
When we were discussing what a Zelda wiki should do regarding the Wallmaster vs. Fallmaster situation, it occurred to me that this is quite comparable to the Bob vs. Bombhei situation in Bob-omb, ie "English names what ends up being a recurring enemy the same name as a strikingly similar one-shot from earlier game." What do you think of this? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 22:53, March 23, 2019 (EDT)

Quick solution
While I personally still think that we should not be picking and choosing what things in official material is "official" I did find a quick solution for names that may of come from us as seen here. Thoughts? 14:36, March 25, 2019 (EDT)
 * Regarding the Nipper Plant, i undid that, because i also have a feeling that it is copied from the wiki, even though it is more straightforward to Fire Puchi Packun. -- 14:42, March 25, 2019 (EDT)
 * Also, stating that a name was formerly used as a fan name on wikis before being officially used is still notable regardless of how the discussions about the SSBU names end. As for clunkiness, perhaps we could use something along the lines of "In Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, Watage Pakkun (called Nipper Dandelions, a name previously used on fan websites)[...]" This would also explain the situation quickly to readers. 14:48, March 25, 2019 (EDT)

They probably weren't just going off the names, they probably searched for said names to see context of what each entity is, and if it had a viable English name. The fact that "Hootie the Blue Fish" was discarded leads me to believe they were showing at least some discretion regarding how good a prior official name was). Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 15:09, March 25, 2019 (EDT)

Re: Triforce Wiki
i mean i did start it, but i want it to be for everyone. I'm currently trying to get it independently hosted--putting it on ShoutWiki was just a temporary solution/fix for preserving the content written on Zelda Archive, which Hylian pi decided is best as his own personal project (seeing as he doesnt like collaboration, which i disagree with but anyway). Triforce Wiki is just a base for getting a new Zelda wiki off the ground, and I dont plan to be like the admin/crat of the wiki since i dont know absolutely everything. I'd rather someone better experienced have the role (and there's already interest for a new zelda wiki). Results May Vary (talk) 18:52, March 25, 2019 (EDT)

Yoshi Colors
I somehow completely missed that proposal, otherwise I would've said something then. I would've opposed for two reasons: Since the proposal only mentioned Super Mario World and Yoshi's Story, how do you plan to incorporate this information into Yoshi (species)? 11:04, March 27, 2019 (EDT)
 * 1) As is pointed out, the different colors have different abilities. This is most noticeable in Super Mario World, Yoshi's Story, Super Mario Sunshine, Super Mario Galaxy 2 (kinda), and Mario Tennis Open. Yes, most of the time, the colors are simple palette swaps, but the separate abilities should still be noted.
 * 2) Not every color Yoshi appears in the same games as the others. It would be easier to have a list of what games they appear in on their separate pages.