MarioWiki:Proposals

A proposal section works like a discussion page: comments are brought up and replied to using indents (colons, such as : or ::::) and all edits are signed using the code.

This page observes the No-Signature Policy.

How To
 * 1) If users have an idea about improving the wiki or managing its community, but feel that they need community approval before acting upon that idea, they may make a proposal about it. They must have a strong argument supporting their idea and be willing to discuss it in detail with the other users, who will then vote about whether or not they think the idea should be used. Proposals should include links to all relevant pages and Writing Guideline proposals must include a link to the draft page.
 * 2) Proposals end at the end of the day (23:59) one week after voting starts, except for Writing Guidelines and Talk Page Proposals, which run for two weeks. (All times GMT.)
 * 3) *For example, if a proposal is added at any time on Monday, August 1, 2011, the voting starts immediately and the deadline is one week later on Monday, August 8, at 23:59 GMT.
 * 4) Every vote should have a reason accompanying it. Agreeing with or seconding a previously mentioned reason given by another user is accepted.
 * 5) Users who feel that certain votes were cast in bad faith or which truly have no merit can address the votes in the Comments section. Users can ask a voter to clarify their position, point out mistakes or flaws in their arguments, or call for the outright removal of the vote if it lacks sufficient reasoning. Users may not remove or alter the content of anyone else's votes. Voters can remove or rewrite their own vote at any time, but the final decision to remove another user's vote lies solely with the administrators.
 * 6) All proposals that end up in a tie will be extended for another week.
 * 7) If a proposal has more than ten votes, it can only pass or fail by a margin of three votes. If a proposal reaches the deadline and the total number of votes for each option differ by two or less votes, the deadline will be extended for another week.
 * 8) Any proposal that has three votes or less at deadline will automatically be listed as "NO QUORUM." The original proposer then has the option to relist said proposal to generate more discussion.
 * 9) No proposal can overturn the decision of a previous proposal that is less than 4 weeks (28 days) old.
 * 10) Proposals can only be rewritten or deleted by their proposer within the first three days of their creation. However, proposers can request that their proposal be deleted by an administrator at any time, provided they have a valid reason for it.
 * 11) All proposals are archived. The original proposer must take action accordingly if the outcome of the proposal dictates it. If it requires the help of an administrator, the proposer can ask for that help.
 * 12) There should not be proposals about creating articles on an underrepresented or completely absent subject, unless there is major disagreement about whether the content should be included. To organize efforts about completing articles on missing subjects, try creating a PipeProject.
 * 13) Proposals cannot be made about promotions and demotions. Users can only be promoted and demoted by the will of the administration.
 * 14) If the administrators deem a proposal unnecessary or potentially detrimental to the upkeep of the Super Mario Wiki, they have the right to remove it at any time.
 * 15) No joke proposals. Proposals are serious wiki matters and should be handled professionally. Joke proposals will be deleted on sight.

Basic Proposal and Support/Oppose Format This is an example of what your proposal should look like, if you want it to be acknowledged. If you are inexperienced or unsure how to set up this format, simply copy the following and paste it into the fitting section. Then replace the [subject] - variables with information to customize your proposal, so it says what you wish. If you insert the information, be sure to replace the whole variable including the squared brackets, so "[insert info here]" becomes "This is the inserted information", not "[This is the inserted information]". - ===[insert a title for your Proposal here]=== [describe what issue this Proposal is about and what changes you think should be made to improve how the Wiki handles that issue]

Proposer: Deadline: [insert a deadline here, 7 days after the proposal was created, at 23:59 GMT.]

====Support====
 * 1) [make a statement indicating that you support your proposal]

====Oppose====

====Comments==== - Users will now be able to vote on your Proposal, until the set deadline is reached. Remember, you are a user as well, so you can vote on your own Proposal just like the others.

To support, or oppose, just insert " # at the bottom of the section of your choice. Just don't forget to add a valid reason for your vote behind that tag if you are voting on another user's Proposal. If you are voting on your own Proposal, you can just say "Per my Proposal".

Talk Page Proposals All proposals dealing with a single article or a specific group of articles are held on the talk page of one of the articles in question. Proposals dealing with massive amounts of splits, merges or deletions across the Wiki should still be held on this page.


 * For a list of all settled Talk Page Proposals, see here.

How To
 * 1) All active talk page proposals must be listed below in chronological order (new proposals go at the bottom). All pages affected must be mentioned in the brief description, with the talk page housing the discussion linked to directly via "". If the proposal involved a page that is not yet made, use to communicate its title. The Deadline must also be included in the entry. Linking to pages not directly involved in the talk page proposal is not recommended, as it clutters the list with unnecessary links. Place  under the heading.
 * 2) All rules for talk page proposals are the same as mainspace proposals (see the "How To" section above), with the exceptions made by Rules 3 and 4 as follows:
 * 3) Voting in talk page proposals will be open for two weeks, not one. (All times GMT.)
 * 4) *For example, if a proposal is added at any time on Monday, August 1, 2011, it ends two weeks later on Monday, August 15, 2011, at 23:59 GMT.
 * 5) Talk page proposals may be closed by the proposer at any time if both the support and the oppose sides each have fewer than five votes.
 * 6) The talk page proposal must pertain to the article it is posted on.

List of Talk Page Proposals

 * Split Rotating Block and Stretch Block (Discuss) Passed
 * Split Fluzzard and (Discuss) Deadline: June 5, 2011, 23:59 GMT
 * Remove the Countdown Timer section from Time Limit (Discuss) Deadline: June 12, 2011, 23:59 GMT
 * Merge Floodgate Handle with Gate Handle (Discuss) Deadline: June 14, 2011, 23:59 GMT

Writing Guidelines
None at the moment.

Make a "List of Blue Coin Locations in Super Mario Sunshine" page
I thought about this idea, so that's why a set up this proposal. It basically says what it is in the name, make a page of that name, and the layout will be similar to the "List of Quotes" pages, with a new section for each place in the game (Delfino Plaza, Bianco Hills, eta) and each different Blue Coin listed in bullets, not numbered. I believe that this page should be made to make this wiki a lot more extensive.

PS. I will be on hatius by the time this proposal finishes, so I will need someone else to create the page if this proposal succeeds. Use YouTube playthroughs to help make the page.

Proposer: Deadline: June 11th, 2011, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) Per my proposal.

Oppose

 * 1) - Wouldn't it be better just to put the locations on the level articles?
 * 2) Per Yoshiwaker
 * 3) Per both!
 * 4) Per Yoshiwaker.
 * 5) Per Yoshiwaker.
 * 6) Per all.

Removals
None at the moment.

No Starting Planet Left Behind!
Well, here we are again. It's always such a pleasure. It's been over a month, and my viewpoints in regards to this matter still have not changed. Now, I'll say this yet again: the "Starting Planets" need better names! I don't know how many times I need to say it, but this is not a race; we would not name a planet "Pit Stop Planet" or "Finish Line Planet," so what's the deal with "Starting Planet?" To reiterate what I said a month ago, renaming the "Starting Planets" would prevent a lot of issues, and is overall a much better decision in terms of consistency and accuracy than the way in which they are named currently. Again, I'm proposing that the name of each "Starting Planet" in every galaxy article be changed to "_______ Planet (Starting Planet)." This way, the affected planets are given actual names which coincide with the rest of the planet names in the article as being generally far less confusing and more understandable, though their position as the first planets encountered in a galaxy is simultaneously maintained. As for the galaxies in which there is only one planet to be visited, I'm now proposing that we drop the "Starting Planet" extention altogether, and simply give it a new name in accordance with the aforementioned guidelines (unless people have a drastic problem with that, in which case I could be persuaded to propose otherwise), given that it is, after all, the only planet encountered in the galaxy, and therefore leads absolutely nowhere after Mario lands on it. So, in these situations at least, the name "Starting Planet" is rendered fairly pointless. Because the name "Starting Planet" is already conjectural, nothing will be lost or compromised by renaming them as detailed above. Should anyone wish to view the previous proposal and its respective arguments, etc., please look here. And like I said before, I would be more than happy to make the majority of the resulting changes myself.

Proposer: Deadline: June 5th, 2011, 23:59 GMT.

Support

 * 1) I definitely support this.
 * 2) Take 2...per proposal.
 * 3) Per proposal
 * 4) Per Phoenix
 * 5) Per all.
 * 6) Per Phoenix
 * 7) Per all six!
 * 8) Per Phoenix proposal!
 * 9) Per Phoenix.
 * 10) – I don't agree with adding "(Starting Planet)" to each section: rather, it can be mentioned that the planet is the first planet that Mario visits when he goes to the galaxy. Otherwise, I feel that this is an improvement from the current way we do each galaxy article now and I'll support.

Oppose

 * 1) Per the reasons I opposed the previous proposal. This proposal makes no new arguments to convince me to support it this time.
 * 2) Per Bop1996
 * 3) "_______ Planet (Starting Planet)" just looks unprofessional, in my opinion. I see nothing wrong with keeping the name "Starting Planet". Per Bop as well.
 * 4) Per all, although, to me, this is still the lesser of two evils: I stand by my opinion that removing the planet sections altogether and putting all the info in the missions would be the best course of action (in other words, per what I said on the last proposal).
 * 5) - If you want it to work the second time around, provide a new reason. Per me in the first proposal's comments, and the summary of it in this comments section.
 * 6) - Per all, including all who opposed the last proposal.
 * 7) - per all
 * 8) One of your reasons for changing the names is that "'Starting Planet' is already conjectural". The names you would change "Starting Planet" to would be conjectural, too! Also, labeling a planet as "Starting Planet" is a great way to help people in recognizing which planet it is. Also, per everyone before me.
 * 9) I don't think it's a good idea, per all.
 * 10) I'm back from my abscence. Anyway, we already discussed this. Per all.

Comments
First off, your argument of the term "starting planet" being just as effective as any other planet is invalid, as having set names for the planets you begin on in every galaxy will set a precedent, which readers browsing our articles will be able to recognize, and use to find the planet where Mario starts. And I agree with Gamefreak when he says that adding (Starting Planet) in brackets looks unprofessional; you still have yet to provide a reason why the creative name is better than "starting planet".

Secondly, adding in random names to articles without the names being fully decided on will cause dispute among users. For example, the galaxy where Megaleg is battled. The first planet (with the bullet bills). What would it be called? User1 might say it should be the Bullet Bill Planet, but then User2 decides that it would be more accurate to describe it as the Cage Planet. Then while those two are arguing, User3 changes it to the Black Hole Planet. What I'm trying to point out is that there is only one name that perfectly describes the starting planet - "Starting Planet".

Thirdly, while you may have opted to do most of the work yourself, this definitely does not remove the point of the matter; it is a whole lot of work (for everyone, including you) for absolutely no benefit. In fact, as I stated in the first paragraph, it is a whole lot of work by everyone to hinder the articles. Which is definitely not the way to go.

Finally, I expect you to oppose this by bringing forth the examples of the Space Junk Galaxy (and the one other galaxy like it) where there is more than one starting planet. But, as I made a strong point of bringing across the last time this was opposed, there are two galaxies like that and I admit, those two galaxies would benefit. However, there are over a hundred galaxies in total and for those other 100+ galaxies, this change would not benefit them at all, and even go so far as to harm them (see above). In short, this proposal fails to provide any reasons in support of the change. All of the reasoning explains why it is not a bad idea, but none of it explains why it is a good idea.


 * I think removing all the planets' section as Walkazo says is bad idea as it would result impossible to define what places the player will go specially in a mission of the galaxy - You know you don't visit the same places on every mission. On the other hand, I believe that the planets should be called according to a feature that the planet has in special. Well that's my opinion.
 * Well Coincollector, what could be a more specific thing - and special thing specific to a single planet - than "Starting Planet" in all but two galaxies, only one planet is ever started on. And if Phoenix would just stop proposing this, I would be able to run a TPP through on those galaxies to get them exemption to this rule. So like I said, what is more special than "Starting Planet"? The answer is nothing, Starting Planet is the ultimate description of the planet that is started on.


 * @Marioguy1: You should know better than to think that I would use the same argument twice :)


 * Well, first of all, what in the world are you talking about? There aren't over 100 galaxies total, there are only 91 between the two games. That aside, it seems to me that you're saying that the rest of the planet names that we have now are fully decided on, which of course is not the case. As you frequently pointed out last time, many of the planet names that we currently use still have not been decided on 100%, and are often changed accordingly. In my view though, this is fairly irrelevant in the long run. I'm certainly not saying that the constant name changing is a good thing for anyone, but it's going to keep happening regardless of what we may try to do to stop it. For the umpteenth time, the overall effect that this proposal will have on the repeated name changes will likely be a minimal one. As I type this, we currently have 11,480 articles. I highly doubt that 91 of them will dominate the majority of edits in the near future. As for the part about using definite names to set a precedent, perhaps it's time to set a new precedent. People will still be able to locate which planet Mario starts on both quickly and easily; that's the whole point of leaving (Starting Planet) next to the new name of the planets. So "Starting Planet" is ultimately still going to be kept intact, just in a slightly different format.


 * And besides, given that every single planet name is conjectural (including the "Starting Planets"), who's to say that naming them one way or the other is the correct way anyway? I mean, who decided on naming them all "Starting Planet" in the first place? I'm simply offering a naming method that will ultimately provide a much clearer picture of the "Starting Planets" in the mind's eye of our readers, and perhaps our contributors as well. Like I've already said countless times, there is a huge difference between planet names that are descriptive, and planet names that seem descriptive. Regular planet names are descriptive, while "Starting Planet" names seem descriptive, yet in reality embody everything but description. The name "Starting Planet" does not help anyone do anything besides indicate to readers that a planet is the first in its respective galaxy. If such a system was beneficial, we would have undoubtedly already replaced every planet name with "Second Planet," "Third Planet," etc. Why do we not do this? Because it would be unbelievably foolhardy and incredibly shortsighted of us to do so. No one in their right mind would be able to discern one planet from another if we were to do something like this. Readers may very well be forced to rely on pictures as a result of taking such action, something which no one should ever have to resort to, especially when one considers the fact that not every galaxy article even contains pictures of every planet that it features.


 * Not only is naming the "Starting Planets" definitely more effective, but it is also much more sensible in the long run. It's not about the new name being creative or cool, it's about it getting the job done correctly and competently, something which "Starting Planet" does not do a very good job of at all. I do see where you're coming from, but I honestly fail to see how the resulting actions of this proposal will cause so-called dispute among users. Like I said, how is it any different from what we have going on now? Names that have not fully been decided on are constantly being changed or reworded, and still I have yet to see a recent dispute between users over a planet name being changed. Why should I believe that this proposal will cause an overabundance of users to act any differently than they have been lately? Also, you say "there is only one name that perfectly describes the starting planet - "Starting Planet"." Well, I definitely agree that there is only one name that perfectly describes each planet (I'm talking about every planet, not just the "Starting Planets"), but "Starting Planet" is certainly not it. Each planet requires a unique name, because every planet is different in size, shape, color, texture, what have you, so how can one name that is the same for 91 separate planets possibly be the best name to be using? Obviously, not every "Starting Planet" is exactly the same as the one before or after it, so why name them all as such? It just doesn't make any logical sense. 04:51, 1 June 2011 (EDT)


 * @Coincollector: That's the exact same thing that I said the last time, it's an interesting idea, but I don't think it would work out very well. It would simply be too difficult to determine what we're talking about and where we're talking about it. Personally, I feel that the planet sections are fine as long as there is some definite semblance of consistency among them. 05:04, 1 June 2011 (EDT)

Sorry, about the 100 galaxies thing, I misread some comments from earlier and basically rounded off; either way, 91 and 100 are both gigantic numbers compared to 2.

Now, first off, I'd like to point out that I have never said anything about the changes to the names dominating the recent changes, or implied in any way that this proposal will affect the rate of change in the other planets in any way. I am saying that if we change the title, that will be one more planet name to change and that will affect the rate of change of the starting planet (prior to this, it would never have been changed, after this, it will be lumped into the same category as all the rest). And about the precedent, I believe I noted that "(Starting Planet)" looks sloppy; it seems like we are going along trying to decide names (which provide no benefit to the overall article) and then, as an afterthought, adding in "(Starting Planet)", "Starting Planet" improves organization and should not be overshadowed by a name that does not properly specify the planet.

Secondly, "Starting Planet" does not just "seem" descriptive, it is descriptive. There is only one planet started on in each galaxy. This planet is the "starting planet". If one is going to try to get a picture in their mind's eye, they could get confused between "Lava Planet", "Rock Planet", "Volcano Planet" or any number of planets whose names apply to multiple planets. There is always the possibility that, unless we have an explicit symbol of the starting planet (that does not appear on any other planets in the galaxy; which are usually shaped so that they look alike), people will get confused and mix up planets. Nobody will ever mix up "Magma Planet" with "Starting Planet" as "Magma Planet" is not started on. And the reason we do not used "Second Planet", "Third Planet", etc. is that there are multiple second planets, third planets, fourth planets, etc. for the missions in each galaxy. Unlike with starting planets, where 2/91 have similar names, that scenario would apply to ~40/91 which is a slightly higher number.

Finally, when I said this would cause dispute, maybe I wasn't clear. What I meant is that, for the time when we are changing the planet names, the users will see the edit, think the name isn't descriptive and then that will cause a dispute. I realize there are already disputes about the planets, but this would be like throwing another fish into a tank full of sharks. On the matter of whether "starting planet" is a descriptive name or not, it seems we have reached an impasse and it's your word against mine (or rather, your opinion against mine) so I don't think we can go forward there. I believe that "starting planet" is a perfect description for the planet started on, and you believe that to create a better picture, we need to be more descriptive. And your argument about starting planets being unique between the galaxies is an improper comparison; the starting planet in Galaxy A is not the same starting planet as in Galaxy B so the comparison does not work.

* Hrm* Portal 2 reference spotted.


 * @Marioguy1 (sequel) – "I'd like to point out that I have never said anything about the changes to the names dominating the recent changes, or implied in any way that this proposal will affect the rate of change in the other planets in any way." Truthfully, I was never trying to say that either, I was merely trying to express that out of the 11,000+ articles that we currently have here, I'm almost certain that the majority of users have more to do with the time available to them than continually switch the names of the "Starting Planets" back and forth to what each one personally desires them to be called, especially those users who could care less about Super Mario Galaxy or Super Mario Galaxy 2, which collectively comprise about 0.02 percent of the total number of Mario games that have been released to date.


 * I mean, if I asked ten random users at this moment what they thought about the goals of this proposal, I bet at least half of them would say something to the effect of "I've never even played either of those games, so I could honestly care less." And again, we continue to discuss this as if it is guaranteed that it will happen. Like I said before, there's no proof that every user is going to dislike names which haven't even been created yet. Sure, some may have a problem with them, but for all we know, 99.9% of users could not only really love the new names, but also like them a lot better than what we have now. I'm certainly not trying to put words in the mouth of every user who's ever edited this wiki, but we can't throw this out the window because of the possibility of an unfavorable outcome, which may, in fact, never occur, especially given the fact that there's no hard proof that such an outcome will even happen in the first place.


 * And as for the part about having the "Starting Planets" become part of "the same category as all the rest," that's exactly what I want to happen! There is no logical reason whatsoever to have any planet physically separated (whether purposely or otherwise) from the remainder of the planets in any given galaxy article, especially not when said planet is the first planet that we're going to be talking about in an article. Again, I'm not saying this was done intentionally, but you can't just name 91 planets one way, and then name the rest of the planets in every article in a different way. If you truly want to improve organization, then we need to pick either one option or the other, and since I've already proven that one option is extremely inappropriate, this proposal favors the more sensible of the two.


 * Now, I know you keep saying that the name "Starting Planet" is descriptive, but in reality, it only gives the illusion of description. Ignoring the obviously distinct differences among 91 independent "Starting Planets" and naming them all "Starting Planet" simply for the sake of people being able to recognize what planet they start on when they enter a galaxy circumvents talking about the actual visible characteristics of the planet, and seems quite lazy to me. Naming every "Starting Planet" as such does little in the way of recognizing the specific attributes that each planet has, which just isn't right. You can't just name 91 planets the exact same thing and cover up how the planet looks and what it does, even if it does accurately describe where it is in relation to the rest of the planets in a galaxy. That's precisely why I want to give it another name, so that we don't have this problem. But that doesn't mean that I haven't fully taken the opposers into account either. If I hadn't, I would've simply proposed that we just give every "Starting Planet" a new name, instead of giving it a new name and leaving (Starting Planet) next to the new name. Long story short, people will only start to "get confused and mix up planets" when 91 planets that are obviously different in size, shape, function, etc. are all named the exact same thing, like they are now.


 * Finally, I have absolutely no idea what you're trying to say at the end of the third paragraph; the fact that "the starting planet in Galaxy A is not the same starting planet as in Galaxy B" is exactly what I was trying to communicate when I said "Each planet requires a unique name, because every planet is different in size, shape, color, texture..." Let's compare, for example, the "Starting Planet" in the Good Egg Galaxy and the "Starting Planet" in the Honeyhive Galaxy. In the former, the "Starting Planet" is fairly small and dual-sided, with a bright garden-like area on the top, and a dark castle-like structure on the bottom. In the latter, the "Starting Planet" is considerably larger, and has trees, water, Bees, fountains, rolling Boulders, Sproutle Vines...the list goes on. And this is just the case for the "Starting Planets" in two galaxies out of a total 91 galaxies! You're telling me that the numerous, obviously incontrovertible differences between every single "Starting Planet" in all 91 galaxies ultimately amount to nothing more than naming all of them the exact same thing? I realize that they're all the first planets encountered in their respective galaxy (with the exception of two), but come on. We cannot, and we should not, sacrifice quality for consistency. It's as simple as that. 17:35, 3 June 2011 (EDT)

Make a new rule for deleting a template
Look at the proposal here.

I'm making this proposal to change valid reasons of deleting a template. The users there said that the Gone template is useless because "people hardly use it" and "you can just copy the code on your userpage". To me, these are more of excuses than good reasons. What if people hardly know of a template you want to delete? What if copying the code is too hard for some people? What if we have to delete the last warning (or any other) template just because you can copy the code on an user talk page? There are just silly reasons.

I'm not saying that we have to restore the Gone template. I'm just saying that we should not accept reasons like what they did on the template's talk page. These are just silly, and they are more of excuses than good reasons.

P.S. I don't care if the Gone template is restored or not. All I care is that people never use stupid reasons like these anymore.

Proposer: Deadline: June 7, 2011 at 23:59 GMT.

Make this rule

 * 1) Per proposal.
 * 2) I have to agree about the deletion of the gone template. I honestly see no reason how that template brought harm to any user. It was useless to delete, didn't affect anyone, and now it's gone for no reason, only because users thought it was "useless" in a harmless way. I think a new rule would be a good idea.
 * 3) "It's quiet for 15 minutes, let's find something to delete or merge." It's getting like the Hazzard County Police here, there's just excuses to delete what you want and no real reasons.

Don't make this rule

 * 1) Ahem, but it is actually easier to have the code instead of copy and paste. You end up needing to view source another person's page to get the stupid code. Highly against this.
 * 2) – Per my reasons below.
 * 3) Per Xzelion.
 * 4) This is more subjective than objective. I think in this wiki, we have to be as objective as possible. And I found the Gone template to be pointless. Some users that are gone don't want to bother using the template.
 * 5) - Per Xzelion.
 * 6) - Per Xzelion and LGM.
 * 7) Heavens no! Per everyone!
 * 8) Per those who per people.
 * 9) QUOTE: "All I care is that people never use stupid reasons like these anymore." What stupid reasons? *insert what Xzelion said here* Per all.

Comments
I think that the people who brought up those arguments or as you called them "excuses", is because the Gone template is very rarely used, and with only two to three users using it at a time it didn't warrant it's own template. However templates like Warning or stubs template are frequently used and are a key part of the wiki and it's administration, if we ever needed to modify the template, we'd have to edit a ton of articles and a ton of user talk pages. However Template:Gone, is rarely used, that and half the people who add it to their userpage are just being babies about an argument and take it done in two to three minutes. Not only that, but it seems to me like you're just mad the template was deleted. You may call these votes "excuses", but others may not, it's clearly just a pov for you. And if we add this rule, who is going to be judge of whether a vote is an "excuse" or " silly", you? What's to keep the judges from being biased so they get there way in an TPP? This rule is going to cause more trouble than it'd fix.

I am not mad that the template is deleted. I'm just mad that people aren't making good reasons. Copying is just highlighting what you want to copy, "Ctrl" and "C" to copy and "V" (P means print) to paste. How is that hard? I take that back. I just don't get Tom The Atum's reason for opposing.
 * I'm confused. In your proposal, you ask "What if copying the code is too hard for some people?" In this comment of yours, however, you mention how easy it is. Aren't you contradicting yourself?
 * For deleting Template:Gone, the challenge was to find a sysop to vote, not one sysop voted and now for Template:Vacation sysops are opposing.

Make a Rule for Changing Votes
I'm noticing in a lot of featured articles, talk page, and just regular proposals, people change their votes, a lot. Now I understand if the article has been improved and whatnot so they change their vote, but to me, it seems more like "jumping the bandwagon". Maybe if there are popular people, or good friends, or even related, users always "per" them or acknowledge them. Again, I understand if major, MAJOR, improvements have been made so that user feels like they can change their vote, but again some users tend to "jump the bandwagon". There is going to be two sections. One will be to make new rule, other will be to keep it the same. I think the rule should be to go through a dreadful, life-threatening small process in which it will determine if they can change their vote. It will possibly to tell a sysop and give a sincere reason why, and the admin can decide if their reason is worthy enough of switching.

Proposer: Deadline: June 9, 2011, 23:59 GMT

Make a New Rule

 * 1) I am getting sick of "bandwagon jumpers" and I think people should only change their vote, if highly necessary.
 * 2) I think we should change the rule, as I've seen bandwagon jumping on other wikis. However, I'm thinking of a different rule: Users are allowed to change their vote whenever thay want, but they are not allowed to say "Per (insert username here)". Instead, the user must fully state their reason for which side they chose. This still applies even if the user changes their vote back. This seems more fair than simply limiting people from changing their vote.

Don't Make New Rule

 * 1) - This would be much more hurtful than it would be helpful. Usually, when someone is changing their vote, someone's argument has convinced them otherwise. I'm pretty sure that all of the time the sysop would say yes. Also, I don't believe that users who are switching votes are "jumping on the bandwagon".Therefore, this would just be a pain for users who want to change their votes.
 * 2) We have no way of knowing a user's thoughts when he or she votes on a given matter. For the sake of the wiki, we like to think that the user takes the matter into consideration and votes based on what he or she believes is the best or most beneficial option, but I think we are all aware that it is naive to accept the notion that every user's vote is cast based on that. That said, making a rule establishing criteria that would outline just when one could change his or her vote would be unenforcible. There is not a time in anyone's life in which one's viewpoint on any given matter is constant. It constantly is changing based on what is seen, what is heard, what is read. Because there are few users with the opportunity to be in the same room with another user at the time of voting, it is impossible to be certain whether a change in vote occurs because the user has been persuaded by an argument or because he or she simply seeks to adopt the opinion of the majority at that moment. Therefore, any attempt to discern one's motives one way or the other would only be a result of speculation and bias and would ultimately be detrimental to the wiki as a whole, as it would undermine the democratic principles under which and by which the proposal and featured article processes operate.
 * I, in fact, change my vote often, as compared to other users. It's a matter of my opinion what I vote for, and if I've had a change of heart or some sort of wiki epiphany than it's my decision what to vote for and whether or not to change it, and I don't think the 'sops need to be involved. It's not their job to decide whether my reason for changing votes is good enough; my opinion is my opinion and in my opinion there should be nothing requiring me, or anyone, to give a reason/excuse for changing a vote.
 * 1) - Way too restrictive for the voters and an unnecessary hassle for the admins.
 * 2) – Per my comments below.
 * 3) - Per all.
 * 4) Since today is my birthday, I'll say it twice: Per all! Per all!
 * 5) Your definition for "bandwagonning" is too vague and this rule will be as ridiculous as the proposal start rule.
 * 6) why should people people be forced to ask an admin just to change their vote it just doesnt make sense since.
 * 7) Now that I've thought of it, I'm against this idea. Per all
 * 8) Yeah, per all.
 * 9) - Per Bowser's luma and Xzelion's comments below.

Comments
I'm mostly aiming at stuff like this being turned into this or this to this. Now this is not because these are my proposals, its because the votes change so gradually without a good reason.
 * You never actually said what the rule would be >_<
 * To go through a process before changing votes. I know it may seem annoying, but like I said three times, STOP "JUMPING THE BANDWAGONS"!
 * @Yoshiwaker, Man, you just jumped off a bandwagon!
 * I just did that intentionally to prove how annoying it would be to ask a sysop just if I wanted to change my vote.
 * Well, it ruins the whole proposal because other people who admire you, may do that and say "Per Yoshiwaker".
 * What you really mean is that people will agree with me and say "Per Yoshiwaker"? I don't think anybody admires me...

Remember to properly format your proposal next time (i.e. include the "proposer" and "deadline" lines). -

You know what I found interesting when looking at those links? They were changing from supporting you, to opposing you. You just seemed frustrated that people can and always will change their minds. I may vote for supporting you, but if someone points out a very good reason why it should be opposed, then people should be allowed to change their minds. Not only that but you, personally have asked people to support your proposals and even asked someone to do it as a personal favor to you, promising them that you'd do anything you wanted them to. So it's not okay for people to "Bandwagon" vote, but it is allowed for you to ask people to support your own proposal? (examples: Here, here, here, and here.) You come across as a huge hypocrite here, wanting fair voting yet when it's your proposal at stake, you do whatever you can to win. You should care about what's right for the wiki, not whether you win or lose a proposal/nomination. Also why dump this all out on a sysop, we will get flooded with people asking us if they can change their vote, and what are the odds we care if they do? We can't outright accuse someone of "bandwagoning", people should be allowed to voice their opinions, and they deserve the right to change their minds without having to consult an admin. And just how, exactly are we supposed to judge if someone is changing just to "bandwagon" or not, how the heck are we supposed to know what they really feel? We can't read minds. Not only that, but this would discourage actual, honest people who want to change their minds, and whose to say the Wiki won't suffer because of it?

@0777, jumping the bandwagon means to switch sides because one side is losing, or your friend is on that side, etc.
 * Do you really think people do that? Seriously. <_<
 * Etc. is vague, again, and per.

@Boswer Jr. And Tom The Atum, thank you for proving my point. We are down 9-2 and you don't wanna be on the losing side so you change. Thanks for proving my point! 16:03, 3 June 2011 (EDT)
 * No. He obviously just changed his mind. You are on the losing side so will you change your vote?


 * Or he could have changed his mind but your right it's prolly cause he doesnt want to be part of the losing side my god man
 * Except that you don't know that for sure DKPetey99. Your reasons may have seemed good at first, but after all the reasons the opposition brought up, maybe he changed his mind? You have done nothing to counter arguments. And also the fact that Tom the Atum has been on the losing side of a proposal before: here which was quite the landslide and here which was a close one, but he still stuck to his opinions on both subjects. Just because someone opposes you, doesn't mean their dishonest or "bandwagoning" some people can and always will change their minds. Rather than throwing accusations around, try countering one of the many good arguments people like Mario4Ever, Yoshiwaker, and Bowser's luma brought up.
 * @Xzelion:To say the truth, you are right. I didn't want to change sides just because Petey and I were losing. I wanted to change sides because I read the users' reasons for why the opposed. They made more sense to me than the actual proposal, so I changed my vote to now what I truly believe.

@Reddragon19k: Happy birthday! :)
 * ^What he said.

Miscellaneous
None at the moment.