MarioWiki:Proposals

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Split all multi-items in the Mario Kart series
Okay, this is something that's been bothering me since I first joined this wiki about three years ago.

One of the habits of choice in 2009/2010 was destroying small articles deemed "stubs" and merging them into parent articles. This included the multi-items from the Mario Kart series, and no one opposed it then.

While back then everything was merged with good intentions, right now I don't see exactly how those articles are "stubs" at all. It's also not like they're just multiple items in one; in fact, there are some traits about Mario Kart multi-items that actually function different from the base item. The most common difference is the multiple items orbiting the player's kart (Double Bob-ombs, Triple Green Shells and Triple Red Shells in all games they appear in except Double Dash!!, and Triple Bananas and Triple Mushrooms in 8 and 8 Deluxe), though there are other differences as well (such as automatically being placed behind the player's kart). Plus, it's usually common sense to split out similarly-looking items when nearly everything else about them is different.

In addition, the way the subjects are clumped together aren't that impressive either; what else would it be but trying to alternate between subjects when presenting them in separate articles would be better? All in all, these are fairly separate subjects I would like to see re-split.

Proposer: Deadline: October 12, 2019, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) Per proposal.
 * 2) - Per proposal.
 * 3) In Mario Kart Tour these are even more different given that all of the items that are in bunches firing at once, plus some multi-items are character exclusive in certain games too. Per all.
 * 4) I support
 * 5) the triple items aren't identical in function either. they form a shield around your kart, and you obtain them in different places and have different probabilities. by all intents and purposes, they're different
 * 6) I honestly never thought about that before, but actually seeing it makes me think about it and yeah, I get where you're coming from. Orbiting items especially serve as both offense and defense. So yeah, per proposal.
 * 7) At first I thought otherwise, but we do have other articles for "something but there's more of it" and these are considered separate items.
 * 8) I can remember that even two years ago, these multi-items had their own articles. What was the point of their merging? Beats me. I'm in full support of splitting these.
 * 9) I don't see why not.
 * 10) Per all.

Oppose

 * 1) - Triple Green Shells isn't much different from Green Shells, it's just more Green Shells. Same goes for the other multi-items, it's just more of one item. Character-exclusivity, being dragged or carried, and whether you fire one or all at a time aren't really arguments.
 * 2) Per Alex95, I'm having a hard time justifying a separate article for "item but there's more of it".

Comments
Here's the full list:
 * Banana → Banana Bunch, Triple Bananas
 * Bob-omb → Double Bob-ombs
 * Green Shell → Triple Green Shells
 * Mushroom → Triple Mushrooms
 * Red Shell → Triple Red Shells
 * All multi-items in the arcade games not covered here

I think it's also worth noting that Banana Bunch is the exceptional case here; I'd also support throwing in the Donkey Kong Country series information seeing as how we already handle 5 Coin and 10-Coin. 15:27, October 5, 2019 (EDT)
 * Exactly. The banana page is an awkward mess because of both that and the stubborn insistence we don't split the peels. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 16:27, October 10, 2019 (EDT)

@alex95: triple items have different probabilities and rarities on your placement than single items (triple green shells do not even appear in ds wifi matches), they also form a shield circling around your kart which makes them more functionality different than single green shells, despite the minor difference, and they take up their own slot separate from green shells. and explain how character exclusivity isn't an "argument" the fact that only some characters can use the specific set of items strengthens the argument for the split rather than not. 16:53, October 10, 2019 (EDT)
 * Alright, you may have a point on whether it circles the racer or not, though Double Dash is an already noted exception that makes Triple Green Shells handle like regular Green Shells, except you drop two if you take any damage. Not sure about probabilities and rarities, that can just be listed in the game section.
 * For character specific items, though, would that just mean gets its own page from Triple Green Shells? Just saying Triple Green Shells are exclusive to Koopa Troopa in Double Dash (which it already does) is enough. Character exclusivity isn't enough for a split, otherwise we'd split Metal Mario (form) between it and Metal Wario.  17:03, October 10, 2019 (EDT)
 * the point about different probabilities is a point in its favor to make it a separate item from the single ones, since practically every other separate item has different probabilities and you obtain them in different placements and rankings. like, the red shell for example can be broken down to just a red-colored shell with homing, like the second upgrade missile from diddy kong racing, but that item also has different rates of obtaining them too. mario kart items don't have deeply nuanced differences from each other (fake item boxes are just see-through bananas with shell hitting capbilities, spiny shells are just red shells that home onto first place, chain chomps are just bullet bills, etc), and even the most minimal effects constitute as a big difference, so that includes the ability to orbit the character's kart in threes and that you obtain it in different positions with different probabilities than you do a single green shell. i don't think character specific items should get their own pages specific to their game appearances though but the fact is that koopa can sometimes get triples as his exclusive in a few games should solidify the point that the games treat triple green shells differently than they do singles. 17:09, October 10, 2019 (EDT)
 * It seems like my comment was misinterpreted. What I meant is that in certain games for example, Triple Green Shells cannot be used by all characters, which is yet another difference between the two. It does not mean in any way that they should be split based off their game appearances, or that items that have no variants such as Golden Mushrooms should be split. I just meant that certain variants of items being exclusive to certain characters in certain games is another difference between them and their regular variants and thus is another reason why we should split the bunch items, and is not an individual basis for a split nor a split of a split. 17:15, October 10, 2019 (EDT)
 * I know the games treat Green Shells and Triple Green Shells as separate items, it'd be a lot more coding if they weren't. But it really is just "Green Shell x3". It creates a barrier around you most of the time, but it otherwise acts exactly like three Green Shells. Probability and character exclusivity I don't think are valid arguments for splitting, unless the item does something completely different when used by a certain character. There are points both for and against this, so I'll say I'll agree with it either way, but I'm more against than for. 17:19, October 10, 2019 (EDT)
 * We split other examples of "subject x number", one notable example I can think of off the top of my head being Goomba Towers, but others include Dangos and Shy Guy Stacks. 17:21, October 10, 2019 (EDT)
 * i'd argue that general availability for players is a decent argument for considering a split and not something that can be simply handwaved away 17:33, October 10, 2019 (EDT)
 * Fair point, I'll probably think about this more. 17:40, October 10, 2019 (EDT)

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