MarioWiki:Proposals

 http://img33.picoodle.com/img/img33/9/9/17/f_propcopym_9045f2d.png A proposal section works like a discussion page: comments are brought up and replied to using indents (colons, such as : or ::::) and all edits are signed with the signature code (~).

How To
 * 1) Actions that users feel are appropriate to have community approval first can be added by anyone, but they must have a strong argument.
 * 2) Users then vote and discuss on the issue during that week. The "deadline" for the proposal is one week from posting at:
 * 3) Monday to Thursday: 17:00 (5pm)
 * 4) Friday and Saturday: 20:00 (8pm)
 * 5) Sunday: 15:00 (3pm)
 * 6) Every vote should have a reason accompanying it.
 * 7) At any time a vote may be rejected if at least three active users believe the vote truly has no merit or was cast in bad faith. However, there must be strong reasons supporting the invalidation.
 * 8) " # " should be added under the last vote of each support/oppose section to show another blank line.
 * 9) At the deadline, the validity of each vote and the discussion is reviewed by the community.
 * 10) Any proposal that has three votes or less at deadline will automatically be listed as "NO QUORUM." The original proposer then has the option to relist said proposal to generate more discussion.
 * 11) All proposals are archived. The original proposer must take action accordingly if the outcome of the proposal dictates it. If it requires the help of a sysop, the proposer can ask for that help.

The times are in EDT, and are set so that the user is more likely to be online at those times (after school, weekend nights).

So for example, if a proposal is added on Saturday night at 11:59 PM EDT, the deadline is the next Saturday night at 8:00 PM. If it is indeed a minute later, the deadline is a day plus 15 hours (Sunday), as opposed to a day minus 4 hours.

Also,

NO PROPOSALS ABOUT HAVING BANJO AND CONKER ARTICLES -The Management.

CURRENTLY: , 28 2024 (EDT)

Poorly Written Articles
Now and then, certain users (usually noobs) will sit down and write up a poorly written article. Sometimes these articles aren't about valid subjects, and get deleted quickly, but what should we do if the subject is valid? Take the article In the Clouds for example. It's a level in Yoshi's Island DS, and qualifies for its own article, but the article itself, while not a stub, is atrocious. It makes the wiki look like a joke, and it amazes me that the author has the reading skills to even navigate the internet and come here (no offense). I can't bear to actually read it, and it's just gonna sit there and rot with a rewrite tag until someone comes along and does a proper write up.

What I'm wondering is if we should delete these poorly written articles. This sort of thing is different from stubs, which may actually contain decent grammar, and may just need expanding. Even if they do get a rewrite, poorly written articles will likely be started over from scratch, and the original context would be lost regardless.

Proposer: Booster Deadline: April 10, 2008, 17:00

Delete Poorly Written Articles

 * 1) Booster: Per my statement above.
 * 2) Huntercrunch Per Booster. The articles tagged for a rewrite always rot and no-one ever checks them out/ attempts to make the article look better.
 * 3) -Per all. No one looks at rewrite pages!
 * 4) Per Booster. I've always wanted these kinds of articles deleted. About time someone stepped up and said something. No one ever, EVER checks the Rewrite pages, and never even bothers to try and rewrite them... As the above three have already said...

Keep Them

 * 1) People DO check the rewrite pages, and improve them greatly. Look at edits on Donkey Kong, for crying out loud!  11:46, 4 April 2008 (EDT)
 * 2) Way to generic of a proposal for my taste.  The point of a proposal is to create a guideline to prevent the problem from coming up again in the future, but this will just lead to more discussion and individual proposals regarding specific arguements, which will happen anyway.  This would be much more efficient if you'd had made a series of proposals, each about one article individually.  Please give us a list and we can look at each of them.
 * 3) Per Stumpers and Plums. This proposal has too wide of a range. There are a lot of poorly written articles tha are also very long. Do we want those deleted? And I agree, someting that's only one line sucks. But this proposal is including the long articles as well. And anyone can edit those articles if they just get up off their lazy butts and do it. (No offense to anyone in particular. Really.)

Comments
I feel that it would be better to delete articles like these on a case by case basis. Many could be saved and many shouldn't be saved.

If there is an issue with the article improvement categories, it might be worth trying to bring more attention to them. -- Chris 01:21, 4 April 2008 (EDT)


 * I agree. If this proposal passes, we'd still have to decide for every article individually whether it is "poor enough" to be deleted or not. Plus, some might be poorly written but could contain information which would be missing when the article is deleted and later re-created by someone else. 07:09, 4 April 2008 (EDT)

Hmm... I'll have to wait and see where this proposal is going, and I would like to see both sides' main points before I vote. My question is this: How do we decide if an article is "poorly written?" Because Spiny used to be terrible, before I started editing it. But it was big. Would we have deleted it?

No. I think only small ones, like stubs with bad grammar or that are obviously idiotic, like "world 2-1" which was coposed of simpy "world 2-1".
 * Plumber: The Donkey Kong article isn't exactly a candidate for deletion because it's poor. - 15:01, 4 April 2008 (EDT)

Yeah, it would have to be a case-by-case basis for this sort of thing. If anyone's unsure about the quality of an article they can always ask. I also think we should also do something about one-sentence stubs, but that's another issue at the moment. -- Booster
 * I think there's already an (unwritten) rules for deleting one-liner. Heck, I think there was even a proposal about it. -
 * I remember something like this as well, but the only thing I could find in the archives is this one - not about deleting one-liners, but against the deletion of new stub articles. 16:27, 4 April 2008 (EDT)

Hey, Plumber! I appreciate the support! Cobold: while I'm on the topic he was discussing how it was a long time ago... go check out the history. It was long, but poorly written. Of course, now that the proposer's specified that he only meant short articles I'm not sure if it's a good example, but whatever. Instead of having this generic proposal, I'd rather the proposer come forth with a list of pages he's talking about, and then we can take care of the stinkers one by one. (seriously, who wouldn't vote yes to, "Fix Something Bad" proposals? Only people who don't like the vagueness...)  17:13, 4 April 2008 (EDT)

Cursing Restrictions
This site has porn ads. Yet cursing/swearing/cussing is not allowed. Porn ads effectively make this site "mature", and to restrict cursing on a "mature" website is stupid.

Proposer: Deadline: April 11, 20:00

Support

 * 11:42, 4 April 2008 (EDT)

Comments
I can follow Plumber's logic, but it's not like we explicitly allow porn ads. They may occur, and can be blocked. Plus, what exactly would happen if this proposal passes? For example, are you proposing to allow swearing only in articles like Bob Hoskins (i.e. in quotes) or also in user talks? 12:58, 4 April 2008 (EDT)
 * I'm pretty sure Plumber is just asking for consistency here. Either we're PG-13 like we were pre-porno adds or we're R-rated... or X rated depending on how often those adds come up for you.  17:17, 4 April 2008 (EDT)

At the moment, I'm leaning towards the "Oppose," but the supporters have a point. Someone convince me.

Damsels
After making a template on the "damsels" in the Mario series, Coincollector brought up an interesting point to me. Why did I put males in the damsels template. I had always thought that damsel meant "someone in need of rescue", when in fact (I looked it up) it generally means a "female in need of rescue". I had then thought of the Damsel Category, and how a lot of male characters are listed in it. So, here's my proposal:

Because of vocabulary mix-up with the category, I believe that the category's name should be retitled to a more fitting phrase/word (such as, Category:Damsels). It isn't a huge change, but it is a confusing thing. Like Coincollector said: "Why do you put masculine characters in the 'damsels' template? Are they 'ladies'?".

Proposer: Deadline: April 6, 2008, 15:00

Name Change

 * 02:09, 30 March 2008 (EDT) Booster has been removing that category and replacing it with a template of "hostages." I think a category for that would be good, too.
 * 1) per Stooben Rooben.
 * 2) See comments below.
 * 3) Walkazo - A hostage is a person "held by another as a pledge for certain conditions to be fullfilled", criteria that does not apply to most of the characters currently in this category/listed in this template. "Characters in Need of Rescue" may be wordy, but at least it's accurate.
 * 4) Damsels... AWKWARD! But anyway, per all.
 * 5) Princess Grapes Butterfly Per all (Doesn't hostage mean captive?)
 * 6) Per all.
 * 1) Per all.

Leave it Alone

 * 1) Nintendo called Mario a "damsel" in Luigi's Mansion. While normally, damsel means female only, there are some cases where it can mean both genders. 11:42, 4 April 2008 (EDT)

Comments
Uh, not sure whether I understand this proposal. Correct me if I'm wrong: There is no Damsels category anymore, only a Hostages category. Do you still want to rename it to "Characters in Need of Rescue"? 06:58, 30 March 2008 (EDT)

According to my dictionary, "damsel" just means a youg, unmarried woman. "Damsel in distress" means a woman in need of rescue. And plus some of the characters are male, which is against the definition. So the name should be changed, I'll vote. 08:44, 30 March 2008 (EDT)
 * But... the category isn't called "Damsels" anymore. Or am I wrong here? 08:50, 30 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Somebody already renamed it. :P MarioGalaxy2433g5   {Talk/Contribs} 09:15, 30 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Yeah, both the template and the category. So as Time Q said, by default this proposal is about changing the name "Hostages" to "Characters in Need of Rescue" (hopefully for both template and category, for consistancy's sake). - Walkazo
 * What's wrong with "hostages"? - 10:53, 30 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Hostages doesn't really sound right. Hostages is more like by professional kidnappers or something. But it's fine. It's "damsels" that I voted against.

15:15, 30 March 2008 (EDT)
 * I agree, "hostages" doesn't sound right to me either (though perhaps only a native speaker of English can judge that). The term "hostage" implies that there are conditions to fulfill so that the captive will be released. Which isn't the case with every single "hostage" on that list, I think. 14:16, 30 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Yes, per Time Q. That's what I meant.

15:15, 30 March 2008 (EDT)
 * I am not going to vote on this proposal, but rather I will sugget something else entirely. "Damsels" could be confusing to some people so no category should be named that, but "Characters in need of rescue" is far too long to be the name of a category.  There are already so many categoryies already, so I propose that we just get rid of the category altogether.  I know the category doesn't exist as of now, but why create it at
 * Category:Hostages does exist. What about calling it, uh, "Kidnapped Characters"? How does that sound to native speakers? 14:50, 31 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Evidently a lot happened since I was gone. Okay, so let me try to get this sorted out. I didn't expect the Damsel Category to get changed while I was gone, (which is evidently why I made the proposal). The original "new" title I came up with is WAY too long, but it was all I could think of in the time I had to write it; that's why I changed that particular part of the proposal. So, Time Q: The category should not be retitled Category:Characters in Need of Rescue, because it is too long. Since Booster changed it to Hostages, that's an improvement. Although I have to say that that's still not quite right. Possibly, the category's name could be changed to Category:Captives; that term is more fitting. Definition: One that is held against his/her own will. I've spent all morning looking up synonyms and definitions for "Hostage", and "Captive" is the best one I can find. (Thanks to PGB for the idea.) And, as was discussed earlier, "Hostage": Definition: Victim of a kidnapper who will be returned via the payment of ransom. So, grammatically speaking, the best category name we probably have is Category:Captives.
 * The only problem with Kidnapped Characters, is that it conflicts with hostage. Kidnappers usually want a ransom, and (although I've never played all Mario games), I don't remember any of the captives being held for ransom. Bowser usually steals Princess Peach, because that's what he does, not because he wants one million coins in return.
 * Captives or kidnapped characters. Just not hostages. They're both good, kidnapped doesn't usually mean held for randsom. Nintendo even uses that word in game booklets and stuff. So either one's good.

16:54, 31 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Once it pulls through, we should probably let a 'Crat decide which title would be more fitting.
 * Well, technically, Category:Characters in Need of Rescue isn't as long as some categories. Category:Characters who break the Fourth Wall, Category:Characters from other Nintendo games, Category:Characters who have kissed Mario, and many others are quite long. So maybe that would be the best term, since it is accurate.
 * The problem I see with "Captives" is that it would also include people put in prison. Don't know if there are any in Marioverse, but that's definitely something else than a character "taken away" by another character. "Kidnapped Characters" would limit the category to characters, so Subcon (species), which is currently listed as a "hostage", would not fit in anymore. If we went for this name, we should simply call it "Kidnapped". "Characters in Need of Rescue", well, aside from the "character" point I mentioned above, is long, but I don't think it's too long (see the examples Stooben pointed out). A shorter name, however, would be better imho. 07:18, 1 April 2008 (EDT) Have we ever thought such a long time about a category name? ;)
 * Mmm...good point. So, in that case, it should just be retitled Category:In Need Of Rescue, if I'm not mistaken.
 * For me, "in need of rescue" sounds like that they are still held captive, while "characters who have kissed Mario" uses past tense. - 15:22, 1 April 2008 (EDT)
 * How about "ones who have needed rescuing", or something similar to that?
 * Oh, well then you're thinking of just plain, "Rescued Characters" 19:08, 1 April 2008 (EDT)
 * Basically.
 * Well, I guess just "kidnapped" is good. But "captives" is better, I don't think being in jail means being held captive.
 * Actually, I like Stumpers' idea better. It's like Cobold said; if it's not in past tense, it means they still are.
 * I've got it. "Characters who have been held captive". Is that good?
 * Once again, it's a bit too wordy, and it basically means the same thing as Stmpers' idea anyway (unless there's a Mario game/TV episode/etc. that ends with someone in captivity who never appears again). - Walkazo
 * Yeah. So far, any character held captive has been returned. I'm good with Rescued Characters. Or Rescued Captives, because you don't have to be held captive to be rescued. Just my opinion.
 * Just the thing is "rescued characters" or whatever sounds like some captives were rescued and some weren't. Long category titles are fine. I think "Ones who have been held captive" is good. Like we've said, there are some other categories with slightly lengthly names.
 * Okay, after long pondering, I've got it figured out. We can't do "rescued characters" because things (like the Super Happy Tree) have needed rescuing, and they're not characters. And then, there are certain characters (like Koopley, who is not in the category), who haven't been held captive, but have needed rescuing; so "captives" doesn't work either; not all who have been rescued are captives. However, "rescued characters" can't mean that some were rescued and some weren't because there is no "characters that still need rescuing"! So, in turn, the best, or rather, most neutral way to name the category is "ones that have been rescued". "Ones" can be characters, and plants; "that have been rescued" is in past tense (also "that" instead of who fits the situation better). So, the name, no doubt about it, after pulling out all minute details, should be called Ones That Have Been Rescued!
 * To be honest, that sounds very artificial. Why not simply "hostages"? - 10:02, 3 April 2008 (EDT)
 * We already ruled that one out because people like Peach weren't kidnapped to trade for something, etc. A better word would be Imprisoned, which not only means someone/thing detaned in custody, but also one restrained or confined in any way. Koopley and the Super Happy Tree would fit into this category, it doesn't sound like a totally fabricated name, and it can mean both past or present captivity, so in the event someone is captured and not released, this category will still be valid. - Walkazo
 * But "Ones that have been rescued" doesn't work for the same reason we can't do "rescued characters". It sounds like at the beginning, everyone was being held captive, and some were rescued and some weren't. Can't we just do ones that have needed rescuing? I don't see a problem with it. 18:33, 3 April 2008 (EDT)
 * CrystalYoshi... fixed your sig. Rooben, thanks for the compliments!  Okay, in light of the Super Happy Tree, how about Rescued Subjects?  Hmm... I guess that's okay... but seriously, I'm not a fan of the word "subjects" (and this is my own suggestion).  I think any way you slice it there's going to be some sort of problem.  19:45, 3 April 2008 (EDT)
 * Too true, if it's not issues with tense, it's issues with the words themselves. Simplest is best, and I agree that "subjects" is awkward, so how about Category:Rescued? - Walkazo

It doesn't seem we're going to agree on a name for the category soon. Not much time is left until the deadline of this proposal. We're voting for or against renaming the category, but not for or against a specific name. I don't believe we need a proposal for that, as the overall consensus is to rename the category, but we still wouldn't know to which name. I propose to continue the discussion on the talk pages of the category or the template and to cancel the proposal. What do you think about this, Stooben? 07:15, 4 April 2008 (EDT)
 * Nintendo called Mario a "damsel" in Luigi's Mansion. While normally, damsel means female only, there are some cases where it can mean both genders. 11:42, 4 April 2008 (EDT)

Miscellaneous
None at the moment.