MarioWiki:Proposals

Writing guidelines
None at the moment.

New features
None at the moment.

Remove rule 4 of the talk page proposals
4. Talk page proposals may be closed by the proposer at any time if each voting option has fewer than five votes.

...Why? Why are proposers given the right of closing their proposals based solely on the number of votes? What purpose does this serve when proposers already have the option of closing their proposal within the first six days? If a proposal hasn't received many votes, why is the solution to completely scrap it rather than try to promomte it? What situation would even exist that would require this rule to be invoked (less than five votes on all sides and more than six days have passed), and even then, why not let an admin close it if there's a valid reason for it? If there's no valid reason for closing the proposal, why let proposers close it at any moment they want? Why only five votes in the first place, and not some other arbitrary number? Why do talk page proposals even have a rule that isn't applied to regular proposals?

This rule is pointless in all circumstances and should be promptly scrapped.

Proposer: Deadline: October 14, 2017, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) Per proposal.
 * 2) Per proposal.
 * 3) So you want to remove it. Why haven't you? (it's basically rhetorical.) Per proposal.
 * 4) No reasoning was provided for why the rule was added, and it's pointless anyways (no one uses it), so per proposal.
 * 5) - As per general proposal rules, every proposer gets three days in which they may alter or remove proposals. That's already a sufficient window to realize if your proposal is sensible and you want to stick with it.
 * 6) Per all.

Oppose

 * 1) I think it's better to give the proposer complete control over the proposal, and this rule does just that.
 * 2) - I don't really see a point to remove it. If there's too few votes, it's usually a no quorum anyhow, so rather than just feebly wait, the proposer might just say "forget it" and close it.
 * 3) I don't really see any actual benefit to this it seems like doing something just to do it.
 * 4) Per all.
 * 5) Per all. There just doesn't seem to be a point to removing it. Maybe I want to put a proposal no one cares about out of its misery?
 * 6) When the proposal passes/fails, a month of waiting is needed between proposals (rule #7). That means 6 weeks of total waiting (if rule #10 doesn't apply). If the proposer has a right to withdraw with less than five votes, rule #7 can be skipped, meaning a refreshed proposal can happen within 0-6 weeks. This can allow tweaks and maybe allowing the proposal to be proposed at a better time where more people are active.

Comments
OK, can anyone tell me the difference between talk page proposals and regular proposals? I know that one type specializes in game-related information and that one type specializes in regular wiki-related stuff, but can anyone tell me which is which? I'd really like to know. 02:40, 8 October 2017 (EDT)
 * Talk page proposals go on talk pages and usually only deal with a handful of pages or sometimes even just one page. Regular proposals go on this page and handle a broader amount of pages or other details that would directly affect policy. 11:56, 8 October 2017 (EDT)

@Lcross: Can you elaborate on what you mean by "complete control"? Would you allow a proposer to make major changes to their proposal the day that it ends? 11:56, 8 October 2017 (EDT)

@Camwood: Is there a point in keeping it around, then? And keep in mind that a proposal only needs four votes total to go into effect; in theory, a proposer could easily cancel a proposal simply because they don't like that a majority of users are voting for something that they don't want. That really doesn't seem fair to me. 12:01, 8 October 2017 (EDT)
 * Usually, by the point they could cancel a proposal simply because people don't vote for something they want/people vote for something they don't want, they wouldn't be able to cancel the proposal by this since the consensus would be above that they could cancel the vote by. And if it were lower, there would still be a no quorum. Really, either way, not allowing this does nothing, and removing this just helps delay votes that have a pretty inevitable no quorum. And before you bring up the "isn't 4 possibly enough votes to pass but they can still cancel?", don't worry. However, I think that's an entire other debacle that I think would be more appropriately addressed in another vote after this one, if this vote to remove rule 4 fails and any purpose in doing so isn't rendered moot by rule 4 simply not existing.  ~Camwood777  (talk)  15:19, 10 October 2017 (EDT)
 * A proposal with 3 votes on one side and 4 votes on the other side would be subject to this rule, and that seems like an adequate amount of votes to reach a legitimate consensus. The rule's especially problematic with proposals that have multiple options, since that naturally thins out the number of votes. Also, who are you to say that a consensus is inevitable? New information can come in at any moment, which could easily lead to new votes or people switching their votes. At the very least, if the information comes in too late, the proposer can ask the admins to cancel it and they have a perfectly valid reason to do so. Cancelling proposals early just because you feel like it only stifles productive debate. In short, keeping this rule could easily cause more harm than good. 23:12, 10 October 2017 (EDT)

@TimeTurner: Thanks for the info. It was really helpful. As for "complete control", I'm saying that the proposer should be able to decide if he/she wants to remove it, and removing rule 4 would restrict them from doing that. If they realized immediately that the said action was done for a reason and that the proposal would go against the action, then they should remove the proposal. If you still don't understand, then do you remember my proposal about merging the Hot Monster article with the Red Monster article that completely failed? I thought they were the same thing, but I immediately learned they weren't. I decided to keep the proposal anyway, because I just wanted to see how it would turn out in the end. 16:09, 8 October 2017 (EDT)
 * There's already a rule that allows you to cancel your proposal without a reason early on, especially with this recently passed proposal. If you learn "immediately" that your proposed change wasn't a good idea, then you're free to cancel it. 00:35, 9 October 2017 (EDT)

@Chester: The danger is that this rule could be used to cancel a proposal solely because the proposer doesn't like the outcome, and not because they had any sort of legitimate reason. If they did, they can inform an admin and close it that way. This is not the kind of power that needs to be given to proposers. Besides, spring cleaning is always good; why bog down the list with a pointless rule? 00:35, 9 October 2017 (EDT)

@Doc: What gives you the right to decide that nobody cares about your proposal? I'll reiterate that it only takes more than three votes for a proposal to pass, making it possible for you to cancel a proposal even if people are participating in it, but regardless, if nobody participates in your proposal and it ends in a no quorum, then the logical reason for that is because the proposed issue was too complex and wide-reaching or the proposal itself was confusing, and that's valuable information in and of itself. Besides, it's entirely possible to people to join in with new information at any point, and that could easily get the ball rolling. I'll also reiterate that it's possible for admins to close a proposal early if there's a valid reason for it; what are you doing, cancelling a proposal without a valid reason? 09:20, 10 October 2017 (EDT)

@Wildgoosespeeder: One, that rule doesn't apply to no quorum proposals, and two, the rule exists for a reason. What's the point of rule 7 if it's so easily circumvented? 00:32, 11 October 2017 (EDT)
 * No quorum proposals is 3 or less votes total (rule #8), or if the three extensions on top of the one/two weeks and no margin of three was reached by the end (rule #11). I think rule #7 was for protections involving very active participation, not for any proposal, even proposals with little voting activity. -- 16:13, 11 October 2017 (EDT)

Changes
None at the moment.

Miscellaneous
None at the moment.