Talk:Yoshi's Island (location)

Under protectors it states Baby Mario/Luigi and Mairo and Luigi. Shouldn't we delete one of those (probably the baby ones, since their real names are Mario and Luigi, not Baby Mario and Baby Luigi), seeing as they are the same thing? --Bentendo 12:41, 4 April 2007 (EDT)


 * It's correct they are the same, but in the game Partners in Time they saved the land as well as Mario and Luigi. So the four of them saved Yoshi's Island, at the same time.

Congratulations
Now the pictures of the other Yoshi's Island stages are deleted. Credit goes to. Now how to get them back? It is not possible to restore them. - 04:50, 21 July 2007 (EDT)
 * Don't blame Knife. How would you liked to be insulted like that. I can get them back, don't worry.
 * I'm just a bit upset now. Why where the images removed from the article anyway? They would have been needed with the infobox, too. And I also don't like it that unused images have to be removed the instant they are no longer used. We should somehow wait at least a single day before deleting them. Sorry Knife. - 04:55, 21 July 2007 (EDT)
 * That's a great idea, I'll put it on Talk:Main Page. Thanks for the idea, hopefully Images won't be deleted that quickly anymore. Also, I already re-uploaded the Images, so don't worry. Cobold, just so you know, don't insult other Users.
 * Was it an insult? I guess it can be considered one. I'm very sorry if it was. Thanks for re-uploading. About the main page, I've already done that. - 05:01, 21 July 2007 (EDT)
 * I know. Lol. BTW, to me, an insult is anything that is purposely offensive to someone. As for the Images, no problem. Another thing, I hardly think adding 200 letters to a page is a Minor Edit :P

SMW picture
There's something wrong with the picture from Super Mario World. It has water in the wrong place. And the water is the wrong color. It's covering the front of the island. Did someone change the picture, or what happened? There should be a picture of how the island really looks in that game.Orangeyoshi

And by the way, I'm going to add a bit more to the Super Mario World section. (Wait, I geuss I don't really need to say that.)Orangeyoshi 20:13, 22 January 2008 (EST)

Lavalava Island
Hey, I posted this on the Lavalava Island discussion, but no one ever goes there, and it is relevant here too. So, heres a copy of what I posted:

I've completed Paper Mario and Yoshi's Island, and I've noticed Lavalava Island and Yoshi's Island appear to be one and the same. The first clue was Yoshi's village, that was on Yoshi's Island in Mario and Luigi: Partners in Time. Secondly, what about Raphael the Raven? In Yoshi's Island, he was native to Yoshi's Island, but in Paper Mario he appears in Jade Jungle on Lavalava Island. I suppose he could have flown from one island to the other, but I doubt that. There are loads more similarities between the two Islands, they are both tropical, they are both volcanic, they both have dense jungle and most importantly it was stated in Paper Mario that Lavalava Island was where all Yoshis live, but Yoshi's Island (DS version I think) stated that Yoshi's Island was where all Yoshis live. Obviously all yoshis can't live in two places!

So could they both be the same island?

-Scruffy

I think it is nessecary to put this on the Yoshi's Island Page. Plus, on the Yoshi's Village page, it states Yoshi's village is on Lavalava Island, but in Mario & Luigi Partners in time, it is quite obviously on Yoshi's Island. I'm gonna post this on the Yoshi's village discussion as well. -Scruffy


 * Nintendo has problems with consistency. Generic statements like "this is the home of all Yoshis" don't hold much water when it's been made clear that Yoshis are found all over the Mushroom World. There may also be multiple villages on the multiple islands, and characters often turn up all over the place (i.e. Yoshi seems to live on both Yoshi's Island and the vastly different Yo'ster Isle). Long story short, it's best to avoid speculation and just assume they're different places for now. Similarities could be noted in the Trivia sections, but that's all that can be said. - 10:08, 15 April 2009 (EDT)

Split into Yoshi's Island (Super Mario World 2) and Yoshi's Island (Super Mario World)
In Japan, Yoshi's Island is two different places: Yoster Island and Yoshi Island. You could say that, after Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island, Super Mario World's Yoster Island was renamed Yoshi Island and completely redesigned, but Yoster Island appears again in Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time as it was in Super Mario World. So, apparently, Yoshi lives (well, lived until he moved to the Sky Station Galaxy) on Yoster Island while the Green Yoshi that saved Baby Mario lives on Yoshi Island. Should we split this article in two, as it's two different places ? Koopalmier 01:03, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Species
Does someone mind filling in the species from SMW2: YI and YIDS? I am too busy to finish it.

Paper Baby Luigi 05:37, 4 July 2011 (EDT)


 * I removed the SMW2 and YIDS species because if we added that in, it's basically listing all the enemies in those games. I just made links to the articles which list the games' (and Yoshi's Island's) enemies instead. Look here: (SMW2: YI; YIDS)

M&L: Partners in Time
Can I get confirmation of the inhabitants of this island? It doesn't seem like their are any Yoshis here. If there are, can we add this?Paper Baby Luigi 14:43, 4 July 2011 (EDT)
 * Their are Yoshis there but if recall they were eaten by Yoob

Yos'ter Island
It stats in this website http://www.smbhq.com/who.htm that Yos'ter Island is Yoshi's summer home and NOT the actual Yoshi's Island. Should that be included somewhere in the article?
 * No i don't think that website is official

Is World 6 in Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island in a different place?
In this page World 6 (Koopa Kingdom) of Yoshi's Island is reported, but from the title screen, the text and the small cutscene before entering it seems to be in a different place than Yoshi's Island. I would like to know if this is actually true or if I just misinterpreted what the game said about the last world.

Split into and
So this article is effectively talking about two fairly distinct locations muddled by localization. One is the small, tropical, and squarish "Yo'ster Island" that appears in Super Mario World, Super Mario RPG, and Partners in Time. It is generally depicted with some polyhedral brown mountains covered in grass in the back and full of plants bearing those fruit Yoshi eats. The other is the sprawling, multi-biomed, rounded "Yoshi Island" that appears in the Yoshi's Island series proper, Yoshi's Story, Mario Golf, and Fortune Street. This one consistently has a cluster of domed blue mountains covered in snow in the center and seems to have more rainbows than fruit. Both these differences are especially visible in the mash Bros. games. Despite both being "the home of the Yoshis," the same is said about Lavalava Island, Yoshi's Tropical Island, and even Yoshi Desert, so it's not like that's ever been too consistent either. I think these should be split for clarity. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 02:49, September 16, 2021 (EDT)
 * I honestly don't think Mario Golf supports your argument - while the giant fruits are an obvious nod to Yoshi's Story, it is a tropical area with no sign of those blue snow-capped mountains. Additionally, while the huts in the Partners in Time incarnation seem to be inspired by Yoshi's House, there are also a lot of Yoshi franchise references there: the SMW2 title screen music in the village area, the Yoshi egg-patterned door at the summit, Kamek's involvement (and him outright calling back to the events of SMW2), Chomp Rocks appearing in Yoob's Belly, and just the fact that it's a Yoshi-themed area in a game where the baby bros. are main characters. There's a notable divide between the Rare and Retro Studios versions of Donkey Kong Island, and we don't split that. 19:24, September 16, 2021 (EDT)
 * I'd disagree here, as Donkey Kong Island has been depicted pretty consistently as having intended to be the same place despite a layout difference, while two separate locations (SMW's Yoster Island and the Yoshi series' Yoshi Island) have been both depicted multiple times in different games with very little to confirm the two as the same other than a shared name in the English localization. BubbleRevolution (talk) 12:26, December 12, 2021 (EST)
 * Honestly this seems pretty arbitrary considering just about every recurring location in the series has inconsistent portrayal. I don't think this would help readers at all. -- 19:32, September 16, 2021 (EDT)
 * There's more consistent differences here than what the latter had with Lavalava Island. As for the golf thing, considering they're Yoshi's Story fruit and not SMW's generic berries (which is what I was referring to), I don't think that makes much of a difference, and as for the mountains, I wouldn't judge skyboxes alongside full-island panoramas. As for PiT, it also heavily featured Yoshi Cookies, which aren't particularly associated to either (barring SMRPG using them for bets), so I think that segment was more an extended reference to entities from Yoshis' various appearances, such as the cookies, Kamek/Baby Bowser, and Chomp Rocks (which technically also appear solely inside Yoob, which itself could be argued is an ersatz Prince Froggy callback). As for DK Island, English is the language-of-origin for both and they didn't give it a different name (and most of the worlds themselves are strikingly similar). Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 21:50, September 16, 2021 (EDT)
 * While there's the possibility that Yoster Island (whose Japanese name, as noted by 2257, might also be a callback to Sutāto, "start") was intended to be different from Yoshi Island, the two have long lost the distinction, especially after Super Mario RPG. The Partners in Time rendition of Yoster Island wasn't afraid of containing plenty of references to Yoshi's Island, and when looking at the rest we mainly saw either the Yoshi Island or references to Yoshi's Story. Super Mario Odyssey only contained references to Yoshi's House and it doesn't look like a completely separate Yoster Island is coming back any time soon.--Mister Wu (talk) 22:27, September 16, 2021 (EDT)
 * Seems more likely an Easter Island pun to me. Anyways, that argument could also be used to merge Lavalava Island, which I would oppose. Anyways, regarding PiT, the island itself, as in, the geological formation jutting from the water, is a dead ringer for the SMW one yet looks nothing like the SMW2 one. References to other things associated with the inhabitants are not the same as being the same, as otherwise Lavalava would definitely be the same. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 22:35, September 16, 2021 (EDT)
 * I wouldn't call Yoshi's Island in PiT a dead ringer for the SMW one; it definitely resembles it more than the SMW2 one with it's big mountain peak in the middle, but the island's general structure is different. The SMRPG location on the map doesn't resemble either, and the golf course is only tied to the Yoshi franchise by it's name and the YS fruit scenery (which might be why World Tour remade it as a Sparkling Waters-themed course). Those blue-domed mountains aren't all that different from what you see in the background of Yoshi's House and Yoshi's Island 1, just with snow on top and minus the spots. Between all that, the existence of areas like Yoshi Park (a Story-themed area with a Yoshi's House effigy in its scenery), and the the various incarnations of Yoshi's Island not fitting as neatly and consistently into two separate categories as you claim they do, I can't help but see this split suggestion as name-centric. I certainly don't think it would benefit casual readers; if anything, it would be a nuisance to them, with a seemingly arbitrary split between different incarnations of the island when we don't treat any other major recurring locations like that. You can't say that about Lavalava Island, which is a one-off location that both Japanese and English treat as distinct. 01:14, September 17, 2021 (EDT)
 * We also need to put things into context: a few developers who worked on Super Mario RPG, including the directors, went to work at AlphaDream. The use of the Yoster Island name again might be simply due to the designers and developers being in part the same. In any case I don't see any reason to split that doesn't go into speculation territory - the name isn't enough for a split, and the places are way too inconsistent between renditions, both the ones referred to as Yoster Island and those referred to as Yoshi Island.--Mister Wu (talk) 18:35, September 17, 2021 (EDT)

I'll probably have a more solid argument once I'm able to be online regularly again in a few days, but for now I should point out that Super Mario RPG is the only one that uses the name "Yoster Isle" while Super Mario World and Partners in Time simply use "Yoshi's Island" like in the Yoshi series. I'm not sure about the Japanese names between the franchises, but I agree with Waluigi Time that this is a bit arbitrary and from an organisational point of view works fine as it is. 18:46, September 17, 2021 (EDT)
 * I didn't expect a lot of support on this, so I'm fine with putting a pin on this discussion. However, one last thing I want to point out is that the Melee and Brawl stages are the only stage's in Ultimate's English translation to have the exact same name as each other, while Super Happy Tree got a rename. This can be interpreted in a variety of ways, though since the JP one kept the original names of all but the 64 one, I'm inclined to believe that means they're intended as different there too. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:53, September 17, 2021 (EDT)
 * I always thought of it as the developers just picking and choosing whichever name they liked more as they went, kind of like what happened to most of the big enemies. There'd be a better case if they ever appeared together at the same time, but like you said, the one time this almost happened led to one of them getting renamed in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. Maybe, if the games aren't going to do this, there's some manga story arc that has both of them in it? LinkTheLefty (talk) 21:59, October 19, 2021 (EDT)
 * I mean both Melee's "SMW" Yoshi's Island and Brawl's "SMW2" Yoshi's Island both appear with names intact in all languages. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 23:48, October 19, 2021 (EDT)
 * You're right, I misread that part. That means this actually happened three times so far by my count, the first time being in Melee where Super Happy Tree was still known as Yoshi's Island (though technically, it was "Past Stages: Yoshi's Island"). The use of the identifier "Yoshi's Island (Melee)" isn't totally unique to that stage since it looks like some stages in other translations use identifiers, since the Spanish name for Princess Peach's Castle is "Castillo de Peach (Melee)". I guess this begs the question: since this is Super Smash Bros. we're talking about, do you think it's possible they're just using those names to represent the originating games and that this isn't meant to be taken literally? For example, Japanese Brawl also used 「カニさん」 (Kani-san) as the name of Sidestepper's Famicom-art sticker when its arcade-sprite-based trophy prioritized its arcade name (which, now that I think about it, Freezie being an established Melee item is probably the sole reason it didn't revert back to Slipice), and Ultimate refers to a piece of old-style Donkey Kong artwork as "Donkey Kong & Lady" instead of Donkey Kong & Pauline. LinkTheLefty (talk) 04:41, October 20, 2021 (EDT)
 * I would definitely put my money on them just being faithful to the source material over them trying to assert that "Yo'ster Isle" is a distinct entity. 19:07, October 20, 2021 (EDT)
 * I glanced a handful of Japanese sites to see what they had to say on the matter. At least one of them claims that Yo'ster Isle is the present-day name of Yossy Island (as Yoshi's Island was set in the past), but it looks like an unsourced fan-theory so my brief search was inconclusive. I decided to work off a hunch and checked the early Japanese text in the proto builds, hoping to find a sign of 「ヨースター島 」 (Yo'ster Isle) in the original story as it didn't make too much sense to me that a game that's supposed to be Super Mario Bros. 5 / Super Mario World 2 took place in an entirely unrelated location. What I found was almost as interesting: the game's location, named 「ヨッシーアイランド」 (Yossy/Yoshi Island) in the final version, was 「ヨッシーズアイランド」 (Yossy 's /Yoshi 's Island) in the early script. The takeaway is that the game's (main) title was decided before the location name was finalized, and the early Japanese name is seemingly based on the English localization of Super Mario World. I'm not sure it's a complete coincidence, given that this wouldn't be the only time something similar happened. As for why use a different name in the first place, I have one idea: this interview says that "Yoshi's universe" is supposed to be distinct from the Mushroom Kingdom. It could be that Yo'ster Isle->Yoshi's Island->Yoshi Island was an early attempt at distancing from pre-established settings when the game's original Japanese subtitle was shortened, but the English localization simply didn't see a need to do the same thing at the time since it kept the subtitle connection. LinkTheLefty (talk) 11:17, October 23, 2021 (EDT)
 * So does this mean these are not distinct locations after all? 11:24, October 23, 2021 (EDT)
 * That's one way to look at it, but I could be missing an obscure interview that confirms or denies it fully. LinkTheLefty (talk) 11:29, October 23, 2021 (EDT)
 * Well, I stumbled upon a recent interview in a very unlikely place: Toby Fox on DELTARUNE Chapter 1&2 of all things. He jokingly says the following: "Now that I’ve finally finished it, I feel… exhausted. I want a break. Hey, can you pass a request on to Mario for me? Ask him to take me to Yoshi’s Island. I want to have some of that green fruit that increases your time limit. If I had some for breakfast, I could have 27 hours in the day and sleep in." I've stressed the key parts in bold. See, the interview was originally published in Japanese by Nintendo themselves. The Japanese transcript of the interview specifically uses the term 「ヨッシーアイランド」 (Yossy/Yoshi Island), which is how it's called in the Japanese version of Yoshi's Island - however, in context, the green fruit he's referring to is the green berry from Super Mario World, which uses the name 「ヨースター島 」 (Yo'ster Isle) instead. Presuming that Fox was probably speaking in English and an interpreter was helping to translate into Japanese for the interview, this might be another indication that Nintendo of Japan doesn't seem to particularly care to distinguish between the two. LinkTheLefty (talk) 15:55, November 29, 2021 (EST)

Late response, but I actually agree and was planning to propose this myself. Considering "Yoster Island" has shown up in multiple games AFTER the introduction of Yoshi's Island in the Yoshi series (Mario RPG, Partners in Time), it's pretty clear to me that they're intended to be different locations. I'd say split 'em. BubbleRevolution (talk) 12:17, December 12, 2021 (EST)
 * I'd be for a split. -- 12:44, December 12, 2021 (EST)
 * What about other major recurring locations with different Japanese names, like Peach's Castle, for instance? 19:05, December 12, 2021 (EST)
 * Peach's Castle is a different case, as it serves as Peach's home and the seat of power in the Mushroom Kingdom, making it pretty clear they're intended to be the same location regardless of naming. The two islands on the other hand, are very clearly not supposed to be the same location, given the presence of "Yoster Island" in several games long after the introduction of "Yoshi Island". Every single Japanese source I could find treats them as two separate locations, and the only thing really linking the two is the English localized name and the presence of Yoshis. It's pretty obvious to me that they're supposed to be two separate locations; "Yoster Island" is the Super Mario World location that's part of Dinosaur Land, and "Yoshi Island" is the much larger pastel-colored island that appears in the Yoshi series. They look totally different, have different names in the series' language of origin, and have both intermittently appeared throughout the various games in the franchise with one name tied to one look and another name tied to another look. Going off that, I personally don't see any way the two can be conflated as being the same place aside from fan speculation, which we tend to avoid here. BubbleRevolution (talk) 01:26, December 13, 2021 (EST)
 * "Every single Japanese source I could find treats them as two separate locations" - can you elaborate a bit more? As mentioned before, my brief search was inconclusive, so I think there needs to be more evidence. Also, it was part of the Mushroom Kingdom in Partners in Time, so geography isn't consistent in that regard. Additionally, according to SmashWiki and the Super Smash Bros. stage articles, the current name is shared in every language except for Japanese and Korean. LinkTheLefty (talk) 02:06, December 13, 2021 (EST)
 * I looked around on various websites cataloguing information from the Mario series, as there isn't a ton of official information on it, though obviously these aren't official sources. I did some digging around in what little official info there is as well (guidebooks, manga, other games, etc.), and would have gone into more detail, but in the process of dredging up that info I believe I've found the smoking gun that definitively shows that Nintendo treats them as two separate places: Yoshi's trophy description in the Japanese version of Super Smash Bros. 4.
 * "ヨースター島やヨッシーアイランドに生息する、マリオたちの冒険を助ける心強いパートナー" translates to something akin to "A dependable partner who assists Mario on his adventures on Yoster Island and Yoshi Island", which seems to indicate that yes, the two are supposed to be separate locations despite the shared English name. BubbleRevolution (talk) 18:44, December 13, 2021 (EST)
 * That's the kind of thing I was looking for. For reference, the Melee trophy doesn't mention either island by name and the Brawl trophy specifies the one from Yoshi's Island. Since both stages don't appear together in for Nintendo 3DS and for Wii U, they could have just changed the text to reflect the version that's in each game, but they didn't and suggest a second island. I'm convinced to support a split. The part I'm not sure about is identifiers: Mario Golf is considered part of the Mario franchise, yet it has the island from the Yoshi franchise, making it somewhat of a misnomer. So I have another idea here: why not use "Yo’ster Isle" from Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars for the Super Mario World (etc.) article, and keep "Yoshi's Island (location)" for the Yoshi's Island (etc.) article? After all, the latter is far more common as a setting, and the former is still sort of acknowledged on occasion. Sure, it's not the most recent name, but as it should mitigate some confusion, I'm for invoking source priority exception in this case. Thoughts? (Also, I'm not sure it was ever stated which island is supposed to be the one in Crafted World.) LinkTheLefty (talk) 07:46, December 14, 2021 (EST)
 * I feel using "Yo'ster Isle" is a bit off since it's only been used in a single game, and most of its other, more notable appearances use the "Yoshi's Island" name. The source priority exception seems to have mostly been used for enemies only named in player's guides, but considering that the Super Mario World level appears with that name in a game multiple times and is known by that name to pretty much anyone (outside of Japan and Korea) who's familiar with the games it appears in, I feel using the Yo'ster Isle name would be a bad idea in this case. I think the distinction between the Mario and Yoshi franchises works, because even if the location shows up in some Mario games like Mario Golf, it's still primarily known for appearing in the Yoshi series and first appeared there. We could also do something like Yoshi's Island (Super Mario World) and Yoshi's Island (Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island) or something (maybe Yoshi's Island (Dinosaur Land)?), but it feels a tad clunky IMO. BubbleRevolution (talk) 12:53, December 14, 2021 (EST)
 * How do you plan on handling the Partners in Time version, which uses the Yo'ster Isle name in Japanese but is otherwise more inspired by the Yoshi franchise? -- 13:48, December 14, 2021 (EST)
 * Its blocky mountains, small size, and tree buildings are all SMW-based, most of the Yoshi references are to the pre-SMW2 puzzle games, and the sole actual SMW2 reference I can think of (Chomp Rock) is found in Yoob's Belly and is an object, not a geographical feature. It seems clear-cut to me. Bowser Jr. and Kamek don't count, as the former is already a major character in PiT and in Japanese, no distinction is made between Kamek and Magikoopas in general, and his sprite in that game looks more like the SMW one. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 15:14, December 14, 2021 (EST)
 * The music theme of the village on that island is clearly that of the title screen of Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island, and there are indeed colored Yoshis living in said village beyond the four colors of Super Mario World, in particular the pink and light blue one, although in Yoob's belly you can even see the white and black ones from Yoshi's Story.--Mister Wu (talk) 19:50, December 14, 2021 (EST)
 * It's clearly references to the Yoshi series due to the prevalence of Yoshis on the island, but if it's called "Yoster Island", it's clearly intended to be the location from Super Mario World. BubbleRevolution (talk) 23:31, December 14, 2021 (EST)
 * I just want to say that I'm still unsure if we should go through with this. 20:52, December 14, 2021 (EST)
 * There's also the very SMW2-esque egg-patterned door at the top of the mountain I mentioned earlier. Your attempt to distance Kamek's PiT appearance from his SMW2 appearance is completely cratered by the fact that he literally calls back to his role in SMW2. We should also take any evidence from Smash with a grain of salt, since it has gotten things wrong before, like calling Wario: Master of Disguise a Wario Land game and calling Kaptain K. Rool "K. Rool's brother". 21:06, December 14, 2021 (EST)
 * I would argue that the reputation of Super Smash Bros. trophies has been grossly exaggerated and is mostly a result of questionable translation choices/miscommunication, which this doesn't fall under. LinkTheLefty (talk) 21:20, December 14, 2021 (EST)
 * Discounting the possibility of a mistake sounds arbitrary to me. It's not like you were there when that trophy description was written. We don't know what the writing process was like. I know some trophy goofs are mistranslations (the "Daisy was in Mario Golf" one, for instance), but that doesn't mean all of them are. 21:31, December 14, 2021 (EST)
 * This doesn't fall under that (meaning most localization circumstances) simply because there is just no room for it to be a product of mistranslation, unlike the K. Rool example describing an overseas character with a language barrier. Chill. LinkTheLefty (talk) 21:43, December 14, 2021 (EST)
 * OK, you're clearly responding to the poorly-worded version of my previous comment that I changed before you responded. That's going to confuse anyone who didn't see it. 22:13, December 14, 2021 (EST)
 * I think the fact that they're two locations with wholly separate Japanese names, have both appeared in different games with both clearly having distinct features to them, and are furthermore referred to in the same game in Japanese as being two different places makes it pretty clear it's not a mistranslation and that they're intended to be separate islands. BubbleRevolution (talk) 23:31, December 14, 2021 (EST)


 * Digression, but how is calling Master of Disguise a Wario Land game a "mistake?" It seems an easy connection to make IMO. (I'd also like to point out how much we've garnered from the Piranha Plant Smash thing, which barring a specific generic citogenesis thing in the localization has been considered wholly reliable.) Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 23:33, December 14, 2021 (EST)
 * @BubbleRevolution: I never said it was a mistranslation. Language-of-origin text obviously can't be a mistranslation since it's not a translation at all. My point was that mistranslations are not the only possible cause of errors in a game's text. There's no way I can prove it's a mistake, of course, but I wasn't trying to completely discredit it to begin with. I just don't think we should take it as the ultimate case-making proof you sold it as.
 * @Doc von Schmeltwick: "Easy connection to make" proves nothing. Nothing about Wario: Master of Disguise ties it to the Wario Land series other than the generic Wario franchise stuff like greed and treasure. Vague thematic similarities do not automatically make it part of the series. Wario: Master of Disguise isn't a Wario Land game any more than Donkey Kong Jungle Beat is a Donkey Kong Country game. About the Piranha Plant thing, I don't remember anyone questioning it's validity (it was a long discussion I don't think I took part in, so I'm fuzzy on the exact details), and I'm not about to do so, but we haven't treated it like the gospel either. Otherwise, we would have merged Frost Piranha with Ice Piranha Plant already. 01:25, December 15, 2021 (EST)