Talk:Fire Piranha Plant

Move to Fire Piranha
DON'T MOVE 3-8

As with this (where I also shared a comment), "Venus Fire Trap" is not a widely used name for this enemy within the games it is present. As far as I know, this name was used only in the SMB3 manual (I ignore if there is another source material that uses the name) but other than that, recent games, like Paper Mario: Sticker Star, and official strategy guides commonly use the name "Fire Pirahna". So in the way Podoboo got renamed to Lava Bubble because of similar issues, Venus Fire Trap should be renamed to Fire Piranha.

Proposer: Deadline: July 29, 2013, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) - Per Proposal.
 * 2) Per proposal
 * 3) per all.

Oppose

 * 1) I should say, that's not valid enough to rename this article. Even after Paper Mario: Sticker Star, they are still called Venus Fire Traps. If it moves, then Venus Ice Trap would have to move to Frost Piranha. When you say Podoboo renamed as Lava Bubble was an issue, it's like you include the Venus Fire Trap in the problem. It doesn't have to change simply because of it.
 * 2) Per Ludwig.
 * 3) Per All
 * 4) Per all.
 * 5) Per all.
 * 6) Per all.
 * 7) Per Prince Ludwig.
 * 8) Per all, especially Prince Ludwig. Plus, Venus Fire Trap comes from Nintendo, while Fire Piranha comes from some Prima Guide I read (in which I think is NSMBU.)

Comments
There is actually no verification from an offical source about the name "Venus Ice Trap" being official name either, and given the fact the name Venus Fire Trap is not use in modern-day materials, gives me the impression "Venus Ice Trap" is actually a conjeture name, something the article isn't actually verificating in case it is official. About Frost Piranha, well, there has been a long history of similar enemies with different names and from different games, like Tanoombas and Tail Goombas. Nobody say they were the same, though. Besides, given what I pointed, there's apparently no official name out there for the so-called "Venus Ice Trap" so a distinctive can be used instead. In such case, Ice Piranha (do not confuse it with the Japanese for Frost Piranha "Ice Piranha Plant") would be the fittest name.
 * Venus Fire Trap's name doesn't have to be changed. But at some points, ordinary Piranha Plants, also their giant relatives also spit fire. I have a theory... Fire Piranhas are supposedly Venus Fire Traps. But Fire Piranha Plant seemingly describe every Piranha Plants capable of spitting fireballs, the Jumping Piranha Plants spit fireballs, even at some points ordinary Piranha Plants spit fireballs as well. Venus Fire Trap sounds more like a name specifically for Piranha Plant species who are specially affiliated with fireballs despite hating them from their usual foe.--Prince Ludwig (talk) 11:51, 18 July 2013 (EDT)
 * The purpose of making this has nothing with the fact they spit fire or are related to fire, whatsover, is about updating the name because "Venus Fire Trap" is a really cheesy name found only in the SMB3 manual and has not been used in many material since then, you think Venus Fire Trap is a more suitable for a Piranha that shoots fire than just Fire Piranha? no offense but this makes me think people in this wiki lacks a lot of common sense. Jumping Piranha Plants spit fire indeed, but is a quality seen only in later levels of SMW, so it's a very insignificant characteristic for them. We can also count its article can make mention of it while describing it is similar to the "Venus Fire Trap" behaviour but no exactly the same. With this stated: they shoot multiple fireballs at loose while retreating back to pipe, while the "Venus Fire Trap" shoots an single fireball toward Mario's direction, gives a glance to him and later retreats to the pipe, or in case they are on solid ground, they wiggle around in their place before shooting the next fireball. We've being updating names in the past, and conjecture titles for related species (that damned "Venus Ice Trap") are not validate reasons for an article to keep an old name that is not seen outside of its orignal source. Pretty much this happened with Podoboo a.k.a. Lava Bubble, it was introduced with the former name, but because of naming conflicts with recent games, game guides and RPG descriptions, the later name ultimately took over. Like your affirmation of other Pirahna Plants that spit fire, there were also multiple lava-based enemies with similarities of Podoboo and that didn't affect the title change. It would be an act of hypocrisy for this to fail, because we would diresgard the fact that for one case, a subject [Podoboo] that was known by a very old name rarely used or mentioned in the media, but a lot more popular among fans than the modern-used name, got abandoned in favour of the barely-known new name, while another subject [Venus Fire Trap], with virtually no differences in the naming question, got the upper hand for the old name just because of indifferences with other similr species, but once again ignoring Podoboo also shared this trait. Seriously, for people who will oppose this anyway, rethink about the situation. Saying "Per all" when only one user is feeding back his opposing reason is quite silly.
 * The purpose of making this has nothing with the fact they spit fire or are related to fire, whatsover, is about updating the name because "Venus Fire Trap" is a really cheesy name found only in the SMB3 manual and has not been used in many material since then, you think Venus Fire Trap is a more suitable for a Piranha that shoots fire than just Fire Piranha? no offense but this makes me think people in this wiki lacks a lot of common sense. Jumping Piranha Plants spit fire indeed, but is a quality seen only in later levels of SMW, so it's a very insignificant characteristic for them. We can also count its article can make mention of it while describing it is similar to the "Venus Fire Trap" behaviour but no exactly the same. With this stated: they shoot multiple fireballs at loose while retreating back to pipe, while the "Venus Fire Trap" shoots an single fireball toward Mario's direction, gives a glance to him and later retreats to the pipe, or in case they are on solid ground, they wiggle around in their place before shooting the next fireball. We've being updating names in the past, and conjecture titles for related species (that damned "Venus Ice Trap") are not validate reasons for an article to keep an old name that is not seen outside of its orignal source. Pretty much this happened with Podoboo a.k.a. Lava Bubble, it was introduced with the former name, but because of naming conflicts with recent games, game guides and RPG descriptions, the later name ultimately took over. Like your affirmation of other Pirahna Plants that spit fire, there were also multiple lava-based enemies with similarities of Podoboo and that didn't affect the title change. It would be an act of hypocrisy for this to fail, because we would diresgard the fact that for one case, a subject [Podoboo] that was known by a very old name rarely used or mentioned in the media, but a lot more popular among fans than the modern-used name, got abandoned in favour of the barely-known new name, while another subject [Venus Fire Trap], with virtually no differences in the naming question, got the upper hand for the old name just because of indifferences with other similr species, but once again ignoring Podoboo also shared this trait. Seriously, for people who will oppose this anyway, rethink about the situation. Saying "Per all" when only one user is feeding back his opposing reason is quite silly.

So what if my reason is silly? After all, we're quite used to old titles. Despite that, we're always calling every Mario stuff by their old titles, even if they were moved to their new names. As long we fans always call a species by its old name and is also still called by its old name by Nintendo, you have believe me. We'll consider it.--Prince Ludwig (talk) 08:42, 19 July 2013 (EDT)

"...and is also still called by its old name by Nintendo..."

- Prince Ludwing


 * OK then, cite me one instance the name "Venus Fire Trap" got used in an official material by Nintendo, as you are saying, aside the SMB3 manual of course.

"Some Piranha Plants, the Venus Fire Traps, even shoot fireballs at you!"

- New Super Mario Bros. Wii Official Prima Guide

There are other recent sources out there about the Venus Fire Traps. You know that official sources cost money, right? By the way, it's Ludwig. So, can you cite me a source of the name Fire Piranha/Fire Piranha Plant? Well, putting aside Paper Mario: Sticker Star's.--Prince Ludwig (talk) 11:12, 20 July 2013 (EDT)

Move to Fire Piranha Plant
It's the official name in the PAL Paper Mario: Sticker Star and both the North American and European New Super Mario Bros. U YouTube videos. Also, (barring "Plant") it had always been the Japanese name, which makes me think "Venus Fire Trap" was just a translation goof like the Koopalings being Bowser's children. The only reason the above proposal failed was because "Venus Fire Trap" was the user-preferred name, but we go by the newest, most official name. And "Fire Piranha Plant" appearing in-game in Paper Mario: Sticker Star supersedes "Venus Fire Trap" appearing merely in player's guides and manuals, along with the fact that Sticker Star is newer than Bros. 3.

Proposer: Deadline: August 29, 2013 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) Per Proposal
 * 2) Policy is policy, if Fire Piranha is being used more than it should be moved to that.

Oppose

 * 1) Like I said before. This reason why it should change is actually just like that proposal before. And for your information, Venus Fire Trap moving to this name is not compared to how the Koopalings stopped being referred to as Bowser's children but his minions. Per my proposal above and here.
 * 2) We had this argument before. The fact is, Venus Fire Trap is not Fire Piranha Plant.

Comments
"Fire Piranha Plant" is the most commonly used modern name, per the naming policy. The only time "Venus Fire Trap" was used after Super Mario Bros. 3 was the NSMBWii Prima guide which is overruled by names used in-game and/or on the official site, like "Fire Piranha Plant". Also, Venus Fire Traps and Fire Piranha Plants are one and the same, just the latter being an updated name.