Talk:Chain Chomp (unchained)

French Name?
What exactly is the reason of the French name being there? We'd have a lot to do to add the names of all species in all languages the games where released in. - 09:56, 15 January 2008 (EST)
 * After browsing throught the Transformers wiki, I thought it would be interresing to add the international names of all character/place/species, especially if they are not litteral translation of the english/japanese name. I thinks this kind of information is, you know, encyclopedic. --Blitzwing 15:36, 15 January 2008 (EST)

Why can't it be. French is a common languege. It shouldnt be in the placement though. Alphaclaw11 09:57, 15 January 2008 (EST)

If anything, Japanese. -- '''Pseudo-dino
 * This discussion is over a year old. Now we're as far as having a template which makes it very easy to list the foreign names in all langauges the games get translated to. -  09:08, 23 January 2009 (EST)

Animation
Do we really need that animation and the image to the right? They're identical, only one of them is moving.


 * I find animations really annoying. --
 * I do too. I just replaced it cuz it was bad before. Anyhow, which should we trash?


 * Animation. I feel it just makes the article look silly. --


 * Alrighty then. Edit upcoming.

Incoming Chomp in Galaxy?
How are we so sure that those Chomps in SMG and SMG2 are Incoming Chomps? I mean, the Incoming Chomps in YI and YIDS attack, by, coming in the scene, and make a large gap. The Chomps in SMG and SMG2 attack by... rolling. In SMG2, there are even smaller Chomps, that roll in a circle. To make it even more unlikely that the Chomp in SMG is an Incoming Chomp, the article name's conjectural for a part. And on the (no longer existing) American and (still existing) European site of SMA3:YI, Incoming Chomps are named Incoming Chomps. So, I think those Chomps in SMG and SMG2 are no incoming Chomps. Should we split it?

Then where should we merge the galaxy one? I don't think we merge it to chain chomp cuz they don't have any chain. I say we keep it like this, since they both have no chains.
 * Is that the only thing? There are enough Chain-less Chomps on the Chain Chomp article. Here's an example. If the Chomp still needs an article, we'd name it "Chomp (Super Mario Galaxy)". Agree?
 * The Yoshi's Story Chomps were immobile, so of course they had no chains. Per Mr bones. 16:13, 2 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I wonder why that is not mentioned there. And like I said before, we could put the SMG Chomp info into a new article and name it "Chomp (Super Mario Galaxy)".


 * Well, I'm not sure about a new article... I mean, alot of links that meant the Smg chomp is linked to Incoming Chomp so, that would be confusing... unless theres a rederict or did you mean?

19:27, 2 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Then we should change that when the article is created, when it's settled.

Move the page to "Chomp"
I think we should rename this page to "Chomp", because it's this article that is the most popular. Furthermore, there is currently no page named "Chomp". 15:06, 30 December 2012 (EST)
 * I agree with this change. I don't think we even need a proposal for this
 * Ok ! I was doing it, but I realized that the Chomp page exists, and it's just a redirect to Chomp (disambiguation). I don't know how move a page to a page that currently exists, so I will let somebody else do it. 15:32, 30 December 2012 (EST)
 * Go to the redirect page and copy pasta the coding for the article into the redirect page. It's simple. I'll do it if you still can't figure out.

Incoming Chomp
"Incoming Chomp" redirects to "Chomp". Can anyone tell me if this name official ? 16:18, 1 January 2013 (EST)


 * It is a redirect left after the page was moved. See this: I can't confirm the name though.


 * 23:37, 10 April 2013 (EDT)

Chomp & Chain Chomp
From what I can tell, these names were used interchangeably for the same creature. Apparently the use of the term comes from Yoshi's "Gabon" Story, but Super Mario RPG preceeded it by also calling the usual chained variety Chomps. It just seems like this would be similar to splitting quadrapedal and bipedal Koopas, or "plumber with a hat" and "plumber without a hat". (On a side note, wouldn't Super Mario Bros. 3 be the first appearance of unchained Chomps if the player allows them to yank their chain too long? Sure it's not called a Chomp there, but neither is Statue Mario.) LinkTheLefty (talk) 12:09, 10 October 2014 (EDT)
 * There's a solid history of large, already-unchained Chain Chomps appearing in games and filling a gameplay niche different from chain-chomps, much moreso than there is of bipedal vs quadrapedal koopas, though.


 * I wouldn't take SMRPG usage of the name as indicative of anything since the English translation was handled on the Square side and features the occassional inconsistencies (I'm loathe to say "errors"...) vs. the rest of the series. Though then again, "Gabon" is also the result of a translation error so... whatever. --Glowsquid (talk) 13:41, 10 October 2014 (EDT)


 * And moreso than the one-off weird Spike redesign that accompanied the "Gabon" name. Yeah, "Chomp" is sometimes used as an umbrella term since it's the common denominator of most of the various Chain Chomp species and related subjects, but that's more like how "Koopa" refers to all the Koopa derivatives, rather than one name being used for the two kinds of Koopa Troopas - with the 2-vs-4-legs thing being mainly stylistic (i.e. it's dome in modern sidescrolelrs to pay homages to the original SMB1/3 sprites before four legs were brought into vogue by SMW, iirc), whereas unchained Chomps act differently to Chained Chomps, so it's not just a superficial change in this case. It seems worth having a page for them, and we might as well get rid of the "unchained chain" redundancy and just call them "Chomps", as per one of the names we've been given for them. The articleabout and disambig page link at the top can take care of folks who were looking for Chain Chomps when they searched for "Chomp". - 15:29, 10 October 2014 (EDT)


 * I guess you can see the chain as sort of like the difference between a winged Koopa Paratoopa and a wingless Koopa Troopa, but as for behavioral or even aesthetic differences, that's not always something that's been entirely consistent (such the same enemies that normally act and sometimes look differently in the transition to 3D). Another thing is that, looking through the page history, this article was originally just about Incoming Chomps from Yoshi's Island, then it included the rolling Chomps from the Galaxy games, which brought about the name change - if this is going to be about unchained Chomps in general, why not also merge the Shark Chomp and Stompin' Chomp info in it as well? After all, they look pretty much identical to the original Chomps, so there's not much to say they belong in another sub-species group besides the way they interact with the player. The way I see it, they're a lot like Chargin' Chuck in that they actually have a bunch of little combat variations, except in that case they all apparently lack their own names they don't get their own articles. (For that matter - and I may be the minority in this - but I think there are a bit too many sub-species articles... for example, Super Mario World in-game and manual just call the Boo enemies "Boo Buddies" and "The Big Boo", but since the strategy guide also listed the different programmed types of Boo Buddies in their enemy index they get their own articles despite "Boo Buddies" itself being outdated. These articles are often somewhat small and the subject in question don't often have significant differences from their original counterparts, and seem to only be named because the respective strategy guide writer wanted to list any differing appearances of the same enemy, so maybe they should taken with the same approach as the "Bubble" enemies of Super Mario World which were named in the Mario Mania guide but not on this wiki.) LinkTheLefty (talk) 18:55, 10 October 2014 (EDT)
 * Regarding things like there being lots of Boo species articles, the philosophy around here is that more articles is better: what's more welcoming to someone who wants to read about all the Boos in SMW, a bunch of "Boo Buddies" pages or all the information crammed ino the one Boo article. There's nothing more frustrating than when the so-called exhaustive wiki on any given series eschews articles for lists and umbrella pages: it can't be helped for minor things like badges, but enemies are a central part of the MWiki. Plus, more articles translates to better changes of getting Google hits: right now, searching "Boo Buddies" brings up the Circling Boo Buddies first, and if we didn't have that page, we might lose searchers to the Wikia's "Boo Buddy" article three hits down. It's better to be exhaustive when it comes to officially named enemies and whatnot, and having lots of little pages to do that lets us be thorough without winding up with our generalized enemies pages getting excessively bloated by all the derivative enemy information, which can be off-putting to readers and can even cause issues for lower strength devices. Small articles are not a bad thing: as long as they're complete, the more the merrier. Separating all the unchained Chomp info from the Chain Chomp page seems logical and practical; there's very little benefit that we can gain from scrapping this perfectly good article. - 21:50, 10 October 2014 (EDT)
 * You bring up fair points about lower-strength devices and the other wiki, so I can completely respect that. In that case, though, the Incoming Chomp should probably have its own page rather than redirect here. LinkTheLefty (talk) 22:18, 10 October 2014 (EDT)
 * A separate Incoming Chomp page sounds legit. It does have a specific name and unique behaviour even among the unchained Chomps. As far as I know, they only appear in SMW2:YI and YIDS - the Yoshi's Story Chomps are the regular kind. - 11:13, 16 October 2014 (EDT)

Split Chomp and Incoming Chomp
Chomps are, as far as I can tell, specifically the Yoshi's Story/Super Mario Galaxy rolling Chain Chomp heads, while Incoming Chomps are the Yoshi series ones that jump out from the background to destroy part of the level. Two different names, two distinct behavioral patterns, and no evidence they're the same other than "they're chainless Chain Chomps" (which is way too broad and unspecific anyway).

Proposer: Deadline: May 11, 2015, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) Per proposal.
 * 2) Different name, different actions. Tell em to make like a banana and split.
 * 3) - Per what I said in the above section: "A separate Incoming Chomp page sounds legit. It does have a specific name and unique behaviour even among the unchained Chomps." In fact, in light of the above section and the lack of disagreement over the splitting suggestion first voiced in October, I'd argue that a TPP is unnecessary.
 * 4) Per all.
 * 5) Per proposal.
 * 6) It looks different to me so, I'll go with a split!
 * 7) Per proposal.

Comments
Are we sure that the Yoshi's Story / Super Mario Galaxy chainless Chomps are plain Chomps and don't have some other descriptor like Incoming? LinkTheLefty (talk) 12:22, 27 April 2015 (EDT)
 * The Yoshi's Story ones are actually called Chomps on the website, but I have no idea about the Galaxy ones. Binarystep (talk) 13:30, 27 April 2015 (EDT)
 * The Super Mario Galaxy 2 Prima guide calls them simply "Chomps".

Unchained Chomp
Should that name really be on here? It seems to apply more for Chain Chomps that have broken free yet still trail their Chains behind them (like in SMB3, Sunshine, SM64DS, and the NSMB games), as that's how it additionally works in SMM, while this article covers Chomps that lack a Chain entirely. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 13:59, 26 May 2018 (EDT)


 * It bothers me too. 20:25, 20 June 2018 (CEST)
 * Chomp isn't an entirely perfect name either, since it also at least applies to the Chain Chomps in Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars and Paper Mario, though I agree that the Super Mario Maker (for Nintendo 3DS?) quote refers to the escaping Chain Chomps due to it still being Chain Chomp verbally. LinkTheLefty (talk) 00:20, 6 December 2018 (EST)

Merge to Chain Chomp?
Should we merge this to Chain Chomp? They have the same Japanese name, and as far as i can tell, they might be intended to be the same thing. -- 11:47, 22 February 2019 (EST)
 * We have official English names. And there's no chain involved, hence the name. 11:49, 22 February 2019 (EST)
 * Nope, we go on creator's intent. -- 09:58, 5 March 2019 (EST)
 * It's "clearly" a separate entity just because of the English name? They don't have a Japanese distinction, and we rely on creator's intent. -- 09:05, March 23, 2019 (EDT)
 * That says, i wonder if i should make a proposal, or wait for a consensus... I'm not too sure. -- 04:26, March 24, 2019 (EDT)
 * As I mentioned on Talk:Flutter, I'm pretty sure some of these reused names are just generic uses similar to Goomba (balloon). Niiue (talk) 04:56, March 24, 2019 (EDT)
 * I don't think so. Let's see what Doc von Schmeltwick thinks about it. -- 05:01, March 24, 2019 (EDT)
 * There's some discretion to be had here. The thing is, most Chomps we have are specific variants, while in Galaxy, many things get new behaviors. Moreover, normal Chain Chomps appear alongside rolling Galaxy Chomps in Mario Kart games starting from Mario Kart Wii, but multiple P. Plant types appear alongside each other as well. This needs some thought put into it to be sure. Unlike Flutter, there's potential for a merge here, it just needs to be done tactfully if it's going to be done at all. And it's not imperative by any means. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 05:08, March 24, 2019 (EDT)
 * Any other Japanese guides group them together? -- 13:23, March 24, 2019 (EDT)

I don't believe this should be merged regardless. It seems like you didn't put in enough research on this topic, and I'm therefore going to oppose it in all capacity until there's compelling evidence that the two are the same. 10:00, April 5, 2019 (EDT)

I moved some things I found to the chain chomp page but maybe this should just turn into a redirect? &#91;-&#93;€40 分@4¡0 (talk) 10:01, April 5, 2019 (EDT)

Hold up!!! People need to decide this like Fan Of Yoshi in a group decision you can’t change stuff unless your like a breucat or something please let us figuer this out ToadettetheAchiever please! &#91;-&#93;€40 分@4¡0 (talk) 10:04, April 5, 2019 (EDT)
 * I totally think that creator's intent is not the only way to go when talking about this. Even if by some means you could argue that they were the same, you have to take into account their different behavior in the Mario Kart games (yes, it really is different) before you bring up a discussion like this. If you want to make a proposal, then go ahead, but don't expect me to support it at all. 10:09, April 5, 2019 (EDT)
 * What is "creator's intent", and what does that have to do with how we handle things? I asked this on Flutter's talk page, and didn't get a response. FanOfYoshi, what's the source for this? 10:51, April 5, 2019 (EDT)
 * "Creator's intent" is an argument I picked up from many talk pages before, and have used on more than a few occasions since. I think it may have started around the time Flopsy Fish and/or Bub got merged to Cheep Cheep. At the same time though, Flopsy Fish are obviously the same entity as Cheep Cheeps, and Bub was made definitely Cheep Cheep in English with Mario Party 2 and 3. Anyways, I just want to avoid ZeldaWiki's "Hand" situation. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 16:46, April 5, 2019 (EDT)


 * All I know is that I moved some stuff over to the Chain Chomp Page. So I don’t know what to do... :( &#91;-&#93;€40 分@4¡0 (talk) 16:39, April 5, 2019 (EDT)

Should I keep the poll up? &#91;-&#93;€40 分@4¡0 (talk) 18:36, April 5, 2019 (EDT)

Uh I don’t know at this point. &#91;-&#93;€40 分@4¡0 (talk) 18:04, April 7, 2019 (EDT)
 * This needs to be settled!&#91;-&#93;€40 分@4¡0 (talk) 18:16, April 7, 2019 (EDT)
 * Please fix your indentation. A two-colon sentence doesn't require eight colons. 18:17, April 7, 2019 (EDT)
 * Thats not the point should we merge to chain chomps and turn this into a redirect?&#91;-&#93;€40 分@4¡0 (talk) 18:19, April 7, 2019 (EDT)
 * Wait for the discussion to continue: that is the point of it. Please do not rush a discussion: it will result in a rushed decision. 18:20, April 7, 2019 (EDT)
 * I asked if another admin could say something, but I'm voting no. 18:21, April 7, 2019 (EDT)
 * I don’t think anyone wants it should I take it off or what?&#91;-&#93;€40 分@4¡0 (talk) 18:22, April 7, 2019 (EDT)
 * Patience. 18:23, April 7, 2019 (EDT)
 * I'm voting no as well, due to the contrasting behavior in the Mario Kart series that I already mentioned above. 18:26, April 7, 2019 (EDT)
 * I think that it is like saying a Cat that has hair (breed with hair) loses it’s hair (or chain in this case) it becomes a (Non hair cat) see my point?&#91;-&#93;€40 分@4¡0 (talk) 18:29, April 7, 2019 (EDT)
 * 18:32, April 7, 2019 (EDT)
 * I'm for some kind of rewrite - "Chomp" has referred to Chain Chomps, and I'm fairly certain I've seen "Chain Chomp" in reference to Chomp. Whether that looks like a merge or further splits, I'm not sure. The behavior for a chainless Chomp isn't very consistent to begin with. LinkTheLefty (talk) 18:42, April 7, 2019 (EDT)
 * For what is worth if you're looking for an example, the Premier Edition of the Mario Kart Wii Prima guide uses Chain Chomp on page 167, that is about Chain Chomp Wheel (When the Chain Chomp arrives, be very careful when you're navigating around him, as he can slow you and flatten you. and It's better to flee than to slow down and engage in combat with the Chain Chomp ready to roll!), the Prima guide of Mario Kart 7 uses Chomps in the part about Rainbow Road (section ROAD HAZARDS: Chomps: Keep your distance from these massive Chomps! You’ll find a few of them near the end of section 2.), while the Prima guide of Mario Kart 8 explicitly mentions unchained Chain Chomps in the part about N64 Rainbow Road (section Roadside Unassistance: Chain Chomps: The enormous, unchained Chain Chomps bounce on sections of Rainbow Road, sending ripples throughout the track. You can Jump Boost off the crests of these ripples. Just be careful that you don’t send yourself flying off the track, or directly into one of the Chain Chomps!).--Mister Wu (talk) 08:55, April 8, 2019 (EDT)
 * Well, Mario Kart Tour uses Chain Chomp as displayed in-game name, we already saw this in the Mario Kart 8 Prima guide (which even went as far as using the unchained Chain Chomps term to remove possible ambiguities) and of course it’s consistent with the Japanese name. In the internal data of Mario Kart Tour, Chain Chomps are known as Wanwan, while the Chomps are known as WanwanRolling, both are named 「ワンワン」 in the actual displayed Japanese text. We now have to decide whether we should split those Chain Chomps, rename the page or make more substantial changes.—Mister Wu (talk) 06:55, December 29, 2019 (EST)
 * I want to add that WanwanRolling is consistent with the Super Mario Galaxy / Super Mario Galaxy 2 internal filename, and there was no base Wanwan in those games. In Mario Kart Wii, Chain Chomp Wheel's rolling Chomp is 1 Data/Race/Course/casino_battle.szs/Twanwan.brres, Mario Circuit's Chain Chomp is 1 Data/Race/Course/castle_course.szs/wanwan.brres, GCN Mario Circuit's Chain Chomp is 1 Data/Race/Course/old_mario_gc.szs/wanwan.brres, and DS Peach Garden's Chain Chomp is 1 Data/Race/Course/old_garden_ds.szs/wanwan.brres. In Mario Kart 7, Rainbow Road's Chomp is 0000.00000000/romfs/Course/Gctr_RainbowRoad.szs/wanwan/wanwan.bcmdl</tt>, and there is no traditional Chain Chomp in that game. So it seems that Chomps are internally distinguished from Chain Chomps in games where they appear together, and occasionally in games where traditional Chain Chomps are absent. LinkTheLefty (talk) 08:45, December 29, 2019 (EST)
 * It's interesting to see another internal name that was changed when migrating the course from Mario Kart 7 to Mario Kart Tour, effectively WanwanRolling</tt> makes sense as they were likely referencing the Chomps of Super Mario Galaxy and Super Mario Galaxy 2. By the way, I had forgotten to add the internal names used in Mario Kart 8 (and to specify that I was referring to Mario Kart Tour, which is something I added later to my comment): CrWanwanB</tt> for the ones of N64 Rainbow Road, DL_Wanwan</tt> for the ones of GBA Cheese Land. In any case, this possible reference to the Super Mario Galaxy games even more prompts us to consider renaming the page as a whole, if we prefer avoid merging.--Mister Wu (talk) 11:32, December 29, 2019 (EST)

Since no further comments were made and since Mario Kart Tour now effectively gives the Chomps an in-game name, consistent with the Mario Kart 8 Prima guide, if no other suggestions are made, the page will soon be moved to Chain Chomp (unchained), this being consistent with the in-game name of Mario Kart Tour while using an identifier that was effectively used in the Mario Kart 8 Prima guide (and that identifies the subject well, in my opinion). This is just a renaming and not a merging, as the discussion so far didn't lead toward that direction.--Mister Wu (talk) 21:07, January 5, 2020 (EST)
 * In that case, they really probably should be merged outright XD Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 21:43, January 5, 2020 (EST)
 * I should have made most of the needed changes. Of course, if at this point for most people it makes more sense to just merge them with Chain Chomps, this discussion should be revived.--Mister Wu (talk) 18:45, February 15, 2020 (EST)
 * I'm open to revitalizing this discussion, as in many respects, there's little more different here than piped and non-piped Piranha Plants (especially in the Mario Kart games where those appear alongside each other as more Retro Tracks are added) and the jumping/swimming Cheep Cheeps. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 03:32, February 28, 2020 (EST)
 * Perhaps, but right now, I myself am leaning towards these Chain Chomps instead being in the same boat as Flutter: something that was established as having an identical Japanese name in a game that didn't feature the traditional variety alongside it, give or take identifiers, but has other evidence suggesting that they are technically separate entities (i.e. physical difference and certain filenames). LinkTheLefty (talk) 10:55, March 7, 2020 (EST)
 * Thing is, the filename in question was "rolling," which doesn't even apply for at least 4 things on here. It only applies for the Galaxy-inspired ones. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 13:31, March 7, 2020 (EST)
 * There's also the Twanwan</tt> filename, and while I'm not sure what "T" might stand for, it doesn't appear to have any obvious reason to be named the way it is since the files are in dedicated archives per course in Mario Kart Wii. Contrast to many other games where files of the same category are instead organized by folders. That's why in, say, Yoshi's Island DS, red/Coin Bandit has a separate filename, but in Mario Kart Wii, the same filename may refer to different models/behaviors like chained or wandering Chain Chomps (and there is also a 1 Data/Race/Course/Object</tt> folder for recurring elements like Goomba, Piranha Plant, and Monty Mole, so it would have been pretty simple to throw Chain Chomp in it if the data was completely identical since it appears as an obstacle in more than one track). LinkTheLefty (talk) 01:02, March 14, 2020 (EDT)
 * I'm thinking it might have to do with what animations it's capable of. The different Piranha types still open their mouths, rolling Chomp doesn't. Maybe tamashi for "boulder?" I know they normally just use iwa, but it's still a possibility....or tama for "ball." Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 01:11, March 14, 2020 (EDT)

Merge with Chain Chomp
[I am makeing this to settle the talk]

Proposer: Deadline: April 19, 2019, 23:59GMT Cancellation: April 5, 2019, 22:52 GMT

Support

 * 1) [I think that they are one and the same]

Oppose

 * 1) - Aside from being the same species, the two are named and act differently in every way possible. Merging them is only going to make things more confusing.
 * 2) Per Alex95.

Comments
I think it is inportant &#91;-&#93;€40 分@4¡0 (talk) 18:22, April 5, 2019 (EDT)

You really should have let the conversation above get somewhere before proposing this. You don't even have an argument in the header. I suggest you cancel. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:26, April 5, 2019 (EDT)

Alex95 Why not put a seperate place for them? &#91;-&#93;€40 分@4¡0 (talk) 18:29, April 5, 2019 (EDT)
 * ...They are already separated? 18:30, April 5, 2019 (EDT)

Super Mario Kart
Should the Chomp-like enemies from Super Mario Kart deserve their own page? Because it feels like the first appearance of Chomps is Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island. --24.188.22.145 19:03, July 9, 2019 (EDT)
 * They act like Chomps, but your edits reminded me to ask TSR about the files they got the sprites from. Maybe I'll have some confirmation later. Regardless, the answer is no. 19:07, July 9, 2019 (EDT)
 * We have no confirmation for them being Chomps, so, i'd say, it stays with a part conjecture template for now. -- 02:28, July 10, 2019 (EDT)
 * Bumping this. Appearance-wise and with the ability to float, they are actually much closer to Fire Chomps, though their sprite also reminds me of the head-on Bullet Bills in Yoshi's Safari. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 16:31, February 28, 2020 (EST)

Mario RPG
Chomps appeared in Boosters Tower. I would add that myself, but I wouldn't know where to put it. Pallukun (talk) 06:50, October 13, 2019 (EDT)
 * You must be thinking of the Chain Chomp enemies, which are referred to under a shortened name in the game and are not actually chainless Chomps. LinkTheLefty (talk) 07:39, October 13, 2019 (EDT)
 * I found them under Chain Chomp, should we add a disclaimer about "if you're looking for the enemies called chomps..." and redirect? Pallukun (talk) 16:54, October 13, 2019 (EDT)
 * The introductory paragraph of the Chain Chomp article also mentions that they're also known as Chomps, however. This was also the case in Paper Mario. We could add it in addition to the top link to the disambiguation page, though. LinkTheLefty (talk) 12:12, October 15, 2019 (EDT)