Talk:Birdo

Gender
Birdo and Yoshi both are genderless. 24.187.191.151 22:52, 24 January 2013 (EST)
 * Yeah, no. - 23:27, 24 January 2013 (EST)
 * I called nintendo, and I did get the answer that birdo was genderless...not sure about yoshi however. 23.16.104.17 20:08, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
 * I also work for Nintendo and am the President of the United States. What's your point? Where's your proof? Nintendo hasn't formally confirmed that Birdo is genderless. Let's leave it as it is.
 * I was just saying, I wasn't asking for the page to be edited in such way.

I think the birdo in spinoffs is a girl but in various other games it is genderless or male. --Poponana2 (talk) 23:13, 2 January 2014 (EST)

The Condition of Birdo's Page
It is repetitive to state that Birdo lacks a speed boost twice throughout her page. This is stated in the Mario Kart Wii section and the Trivia section. Should this be fixed? Secondly shouldn't every single "she" pronoun on Birdo's page be changed to it? The reason why I am bring this infamous topic up again is because previous discussions in Birdo's talk page states that "her" gender is unconfirmed in America. If this is true and has been announced by a Nintendo representitive, this page needs to be revised entirely to match accurate documented information. Also if this idea is to be taken into consideration, new sources relevant to this situation need to be found and documented. Lastly, if Birdo's gender is unconfirmed, that information needs to be validated in her gender section; if all of this turns out to be accurate, the "gender section" needs revisions and needs to be updated with accurate information. (The section's current state is fairly vague in terms of describing many facts about Birdo's gender.) User:FireFlower
 * The constellation information in Mario Party 9 that is referring to Birdo uses a 'her'. MarioComix (talk) 05:00, 13 June 2013 (EDT)
 * There have been numerous discussions about Birdo's gender. On the archived Birdo talk page, there's 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 sections that address it, plus the section above this section on this page, and not one, not two, but three proposals about it. Aside from some earlier indecision, everything has been in agreement that for all intents and purposes, she's a female, and female pronouns will be used from her on this wiki. Using "it" when referring to sapient beings is really inappropriate and while SSBB may have committed that faux pas, we're not going to do that here. Also, while SSBB and some unconfirmed Nintendo representative speaking on the telephone (hardly an announcement) say she's genderless, the vast majority of English-language Mario releases call her female, last I checked, and our article reflects that majority rule, rather than the few exceptions, one of which can't be verified. The Gender sections does mention SSBB and the original SMB2 stuff; perhaps some more games besides M&L:SS could be cited to back up the "most of the time NoA and NoE call her a girl" point, and more info on non-English versions would make the section even more informative (like the Vivian page), but while it could be expanded, the section's current body of info is neither outdated nor obstructively vague. Long story short, Birdo's gender is not unconfirmed: most English sources say she's female and that's what we're going with; if anyone wants to change the wiki's stance on this controversial matter, it'll need to be attempted via a TPP or a Proposal, rather than an informal discussion. - 11:30, 13 June 2013 (EDT)

Okay thank you. Is Birdo a male in Japan though? User:FireFlower
 * I believe Birdo is a male in Japan, yes. However, this wiki is geared towards English, and especially North American, versions of games, so the majority of pages would follow what the NOA version of the game says. MarioComix (talk) 17:55, 13 June 2013 (EDT)
 * Well, going by what little info we have, it sounds like she's meant to be physically male, but dresses (and acts and probably talks) like a girl, and either wants to be female (SMB2) or fully identifies as female (Captain Rainbow). Again, having more info would be helpful for nailing it down, although I suspect it's not meant to be taken seriously either way... - 19:48, 13 June 2013 (EDT)

Suspecting Birdo is male in Japan and having American sources say Birdo is female makes no sense and is bound to make the controversial matter more questionable. '''If Birdo actually is male in Japan, then Birdo is male in all the games, simply because all of the nations obtain their merchandise from Japan.  Despite all of this, are their any''' Japenese representitives or sources stating she is female? Also, if Nintendo wanted or knows Birdo by a male, why is her appearance so feminine if she is male? User:FireFlower
 * The Japanese versions do not overrule the other languages: everything is canon and of equal importance and validity. The gender section deals with the conflicting story, which is the best we can do; the rest of the page treats her as a girl, partly because it's an English database and if we have to go with something, we'll go with that (similar to how we go with the latest story when something's been retconned), but also because transgender males who look, act and identify as females should be referred to as female. Either way, it's the simplest and most politically correct solution. We can't be sure where in the trans spectrum Birdo falls without more info, but there's still enough evidence (including the original English localization of SMB2, before the censorship kicked in) to indicate that her chosen gender is or would be female, and while Nintendo may joke around with it, we're gonna call her a female. - 14:26, 14 June 2013 (EDT)

Okay, but no one has answered my question. Are their any Japenese sources confirming her female gender. Also on many sources I have read calling Birdo a gender confused male in The Super Mario Bros 2 instruction manual state that was an accident which caused contreversy. Secondly, the quote for Birdo's bio on Mario Kart Double Dash in Japan, is a question not a complete sentence that is stating a fact. Finally, the SMB2 manual accident is stated on Ostro's page which happens to be on this wiki. Lastly, if their are any Japense sources site them so I can view them or if thats against policy rules let me know how you can distribute them to me. User:FireFlower
 * The Ostro/Birdo mix-up has nothing to do with the validity of the "Birdo's a guy who wants to be a girl" instruction manual bio: that's way too elaborate to be an accident. The MK:DD sentence isn't a question, it's simply left hanging, rather than spelling it out, but it's pretty clear what it was talking about. I don't have any additional Japanese sources at this time to refer to; if anyone else can help with that, that'd be great. - 20:02, 16 June 2013 (EDT)

Gender - Manual source
Article states:
 * According to the North American instruction manual of Super Mario Bros. 2:
 * "Birdo thinks he is a girl and likes to be called Birdetta. He likes to wear a bow on his head and shoot eggs from his mouth."

Is that really in the NA manual? I only found this, which can also be found at wikipedia and is there said to be in the NA manual:
 * "Ostro: He thinks he is a girl and he spits eggs from his mouth." (USA manual, page 27).

So please name the page number or change it. -80.133.125.90 05:38, 28 September 2013 (EDT)


 * Page 27, but it seems that there's two versions of the manual floating around, because the one here (PDF) has the "Birdetta" line, but the one here (PDF) only has the egg-spitting part (this second one is also where Wikipedia seemingly got their info. Very odd... - 18:20, 28 September 2013 (EDT)

Is confirmed portrayal?
They're listed Birdo's voice actor. I don't think its voice actor is same as Yoshi. It's very sounds different. Birdo's voice sounds like weird noise. Is really same voice actor? Sound effect is more appropriate. Jufemia li Britannia  15:28, 1 November 2013 (EDT)
 * I highly doubt that Kazumi Totaka (the voice of the present Yoshi) voiced Birdo. Birdo sounds kinda like a voice, unlike Koopa Troopa, Goomba, and Monty Mole, so I don't know if it's computer generated or a voice. 18:51, 1 November 2013 (EDT)

Some suggestions from a transgender woman
So i'm really happy with how this wiki has addressed Birdetta's gender and pronouns. One weird slip up i noticed is that under the section on gender another transgender character, Catherine, is reffered to as male and called "he". For the sake of clarity i would recommend, whenever referencing the birth sex of an a character with transgender affiliations who was born male the wiki should used the term Designated-Male-At-Birth (or DMAB) as it clarifies birth sex while also implying that the individual may not necessarily agree with the designation. Orthodoxwaffle (talk) 20:40, 19 February 2014 (EST)
 * Thanks for the input - it's duly noted. It's good to have some guidance from actual trans persons on this matter. --Glowsquid (talk) 20:51, 19 February 2014 (EST)
 * Yeah, I can definitely get behind this. 20:56, 19 February 2014 (EST)
 * I'm a bit wary of using very specific terminology like that, seeing as we're already going a step beyond ambiguity-loving Nintendo by actually calling her transgender. But you're certainly right that the male pronouns were incorrect, and I've changed them to female. My guess is that they were holdovers from when it was argued that the Japanese version just as Birdo/Catherine as a transvestite rather than a transgender character, but the "believes she's female" point is certainly an indication that she's transgender in that version as well, and I'm surprised none of us caught that earlier. Thank you for pointing it out. - 21:07, 19 February 2014 (EST)


 * Oh i see, Catherine is the japanese name, i thought it was another character. Wait, so Nintendo named her Catherine in Japan and then the NA translation team took the already English name Catherine and changed it to "Birdetta/Birdo". Whatever possessed them to do something so bass-ackwards? Orthodoxwaffle (talk) 21:25, 20 February 2014 (EST)