Talk:Toad (species)

From the article: '''Dark Green Spots: Courageous, oftentimes a leader. Rarest coloration. (Example:Chancellor)''' The Toad in NSMB is Toadsworth or another Toad with brown spoots. Dragonfree
 * I don't believe the Chancellor is very courageous. He is the leader of the Mushroom Kingdom in one point in time, but he did not seem brave. In fact, whenever a villain (such as Mack or even a reformed Bowser) appears, the Chancellor gets scared and runs into a corner. This line should probably be deleted, unless there are other Toads with Dark Green spots that are brave and tend to be leaders. --Son of Suns 15:16, 21 June 2006 (EDT)
 * What about regular green?Superchao 21:47, 5 September 2006 (EDT)

The name "toad"
The article mentions that they are originally called mushroom retainers, but it doesn't mention when they are first called toads in the actual games. To tell you the truth, I don't even remember them being called toads, I just remember the character Toad being called Toad in SMB2 and various spinoff games. - Buddy

Name
The name of this article should be Toad (specie), not Toad (species). All article titles should be singular. This is the only article that has species in its name. (I.E. Yoshi (species), Subcon (species), etc.)

My bad.

Yup. Species is singular.

SMB2?
In section 1, it says that Toad has red spots in SMB2. Actually, the spots are blue. It could be lack of colours, though, since on the boxart they are red, and in the SNES and GBA remakes, they are red too. Maybe we should put that in as a side note...?


 * Officially, Toad has red spots in in SMB2. The blue spots are a result of programming in the NES. This could be noted if needed, but this topic is more appropriate for the Toad (character) article. -- Son of Suns

Species
I thought it was the character that appeared in Mario Super Star Baseball.- User: Ultimatetoad

Well, you could change his colors and the different colors do have different strengths... so I put it in the species.

Well, that makes sense. But what about Strikers? Were/Was He/They in it? - User: Ultimatetoad

Yeeeeeeeep. They were.

Toad is Peach's brother???
I thought Toad was peach's brother in the super mario bros super show. This could be truth, because in the multiplayer mode of mario party 5 a special group name appears if two players cooperate. Peach and Toad get the group name "ROYAL FAMILY"!!! and peach has a toad-like grandma in Mario RPG (snes). Does this also mean peach is a toad??? Justwriting
 * You should note that, if you team up Luigi and Yoshi in Mario Party 6, they are called "Green bros.", and they're certainly not brothers. Also, please remember to sign your comments with: -- 16:23, 12 February 2007 (EST)
 * and what about peach's grandma? And hasn't someone maybe heard them saying something like that in the super mario bros super show? maybe it's me who is wrong, but that they are called green bros is not really proof toad and peach are not family. don't know how to sign and don't have a user page --Justwriting 04:13, 13 February 2007 (EST)
 * I really don't feel like debating this, but I already showed you how to sign your comments. Leave: at the end of your comments. And whether you have a user page or not doesn't matter. -- 17:41, 12 February 2007 (EST)

Regardless, this is speculation, so it shouldn't be in the article. And I'm pretty sure theres no mention of Toad being related to Peach in either The Super Mario Bros. Super Show! or The Adventures of Super Mario Bros. 3 or the games. But, you have a point with Peach's Grandmother, her existance probably means Peach is atleast part Toad. -- Sir Grodus

We do have an article about Grandma Toadstool. However, there is no proof that Toad is Peach's brother. -- Son of Suns

Plus the TV. Shows are not part of the Mario storyline. User:Pal101

Quote
Isn't that quote supposed to be THE Toad's quote? 19:42, 18 August 2007 (EDT)

No. -- Sir Grodus

Notable Toads section
Is that how it is supposed to work? To use the template instead of a list? - 16:21, 10 September 2007 (EDT)

Yeah, bad idea on my part, I'm changing it back/expanding. -- Sir Grodus

Hats or Heads?
Most of the series remains silent on this issue, but there are occasional signs that point to one or the other...

Support for Heads:

- In Super Mario RPG, the Chancellor exclaims that he nearly dropped his spores when he heard the crash of Exor into Bowser's Keep. It may have been a joke, but nevertheless, it is what he said. Note that Ted Woolsey, a translator known for spicing up dry Japanese dialogue in Square's SNES RPGs, worked on this game. Therefore, it could have been an invented line.

- In Super Paper Mario, Toad's card claims that the mushroom people of his dimension are known for their strange spotted heads.

Support for Hats:

- In alternate media, they are sometimes viewed as caps. In particular, Toad used his mushroom cap as a parachute in an episode of The Super Mario Bros. Super Show, revealing a bald head.

- This is probably the biggest piece of evidence: http://trsrockin.com/images/om_legend_big.jpg The original player's guide was directly translated and localized from the Japanese version, and included the original Japanese story art (not unlike those you would see in NES games such as Zelda, Metroid, or Kid Icarus). The pictures show a game interpretation of the Mushroom King and Queen for the only time (perhaps they have died?), wearing caps. Also, Princess Peach, wearing a very different dress, is also shown with a royal cap! This shows that either they are detachable, or they are simply wardrobe. Also note that while Peach is technically human, her apparent Grandmother is a Toad and has a cap. Finally, some Toads have hair underneath their cap in the Paper Mario games.

I think the article should indicate that some depictions of Toads describe both. LinkTheLefty 21:53, 20 August 2008 (EDT)


 * A couple small details to add support for hats (only from rpg games, unfortunately):

In SMRPG, the Toads of Rose Town have stripes instead of spots. In Paper Mario, you can see multiple toads with hair poking out underneath the caps. And in Paper Mario TTYD the abandoned sailors have what appears to be a patch sewed onto their caps. Again in Paper Mario games, there are Toads who have special designs or colors on their caps, like Vanna T. who has hearts or the train conductors who have black caps. Just my two sense, I think that the toads are wearing hats. Goomb-omb

I think the "Mushroom Queen" is actually also the Princess, since a Queen is nowhere mentioned in the text. Anyway, I don't think this Japanese art is "more official" than the character depictions in the American cartoons and comics. The art style greatly differs from the artwork Shigeru Miyamoto made for the game's original box art, and it looks nothing like the later designs by Yoichi Kotabe, either (read this interview, part 4). It seems that another artist had his own interpretations of the characters based on the game sprites, I doubt it's "canon." --Grandy02 17:45, 17 October 2009 (EDT)

In Paper Mario, when the train conductor (the one with the hat) blows his whistle, for a split second, you can see that he has no spotted head underneath. - User:TheREALKingK

The "T." in their names
Isn't the "T." supposed to stand for "Toad"? Like Herb T would be Herb Toad and Zess T would be Zess Toad? I forget where I heard this--Mistertrouble189 23:47, 13 February 2009 (EST)
 * That is most likely.

Blue Toad and Yellow Toad Separate pages?
Should the two toads get their own page, being heroes in the upcoming game, new super mario bros wii. Seeing as the other coloured yoshis have their own pages, I just thought to bring it up. But I guess it's not serious till the game is released. Pichufan93

If we have Blue Toad & Yellow Toad shouldn't we have other toad colors, example: Green Toad? Mario200 08:15, 26 October 2009 (EDT)

I think there needs to be a Green Toad article. Green Toad made his most notable appearance in Wario's Woods, where he was the second player. I think that puts him unique enough on the level of Blue Toad and Yellow Toad. Kobble

The truth about the "Toad Suit"
Look here under the "More unused sprites" section.

Toads in Thwomp Volcano
Does anyone know what the Toads in Thwomp Volcano in Mario & Luigi Partners in Time are called? Not the ones Tanoombas turn into, but the ones with red caps and white spots. I'm thinking about creating a separate article or adding more info to this article about them.

They are simply regular Toads with a different patterned cap. No need to create a separate article on them, unless they have some unique abilities separating them from other Toad species.-- 15:37, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

When
When in the game does he say, 'Panic and fear! Panic and fear!'?

Personality being related to color
Red Toads seem to be the strongest, as evidenced by the fact Red Toad could do most of what Mario did in the first mission of Fluffy Bluff Galaxy. Blue Toads seem to be the most intelligent, as evidenced by Russ T. and Toadbert. Yellow Toads seem to be the most lazy, as evidenced by the Toad Brigade's Yellow Toad. Green Toads seem to be the most adventurous, as evidenced by Banktoad (who has to adventure to get you some Star Bits). And Pink Toads seem to be the most hard-working, as evidenced by Mailtoad. Do you think this is worth saying in the article's trivia ? Koopalmier 11:42, 25 February 2011 (EST)
 * Major stretch. --Reversinator 11:43, 25 February 2011 (EST)
 * How is that a "major stretch" ? Are you saying it's not true ? Koopalmier 11:45, 25 February 2011 (EST)
 * Either way, it's speculation that Nintendo intended specific Toad colors to represent specific traits. --Reversinator 11:48, 25 February 2011 (EST)
 * More observation than speculation, but I guess I see why it doesn't belong in the article. Thanks. Koopalmier 14:00, 25 February 2011 (EST)

Hats or Heads solution
the word "cap" doesn't have to mean "hat". I've read about mushrooms in real life, and some people call the top part a cap...

Hey
I used ctrl+F and looked Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon and only got one reaction, which was when it said latest appereance, has a section about Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon been added yet?

Merge "Mushroom Retainers" with this article?
Considering that the policy of the wiki is to use the names from the most recent games, Mushroom Retainer was only used in the NES manual for Super Mario Bros. Releases since then have either neglected to mention them by name or, in the case of Super Mario All-Star Limited Edition (and I think Super Mario Bros. Deluxe, although I don't quite remember), simply called them Toads. "Kinopio" is also the Japanese name for the Mushroom Retainers, so Toad is actually the current localization used for the Mushroom People since at least Paper Mario (before then, "Toad" usually referred to the character). So I think the information from the Mushroom Retainer article should be merged with this article since it's technically just an old name that got superceded by later releases. LinkTheLefty (talk) 11:15, 12 August 2013 (EDT)
 * Year-old comment, but funny, I brought it up recently in the Mushroom Retainer talk page. I still have a few questions to ask, though. Is "Mushroom Retainer" ever used as a title in other media? Or is it also just an early name of the Toad species? If it is just an early name, I think a merge would be reasonable. 22:59, 19 October 2014 (EDT)
 * Looks like you've taken care of it! But yes, to sum up that up here - it was a direct localization of Kinopio in the SMB manuals, and since then mushroom retainer or simply retainer has been used to describe Toad very occasionally (so in any case, it doesn't really refer to the original seven Toads anymore). LinkTheLefty (talk) 09:05, 18 November 2014 (EST)

New info about Toads by Mr. Hayashida
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/nintendo-reveals-the-toads-gender-secret/1100-6423610/

The producer of Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker has revealed some stuff about Toads in general. Here's an abridged version: Toads have no set genders, despite featuring gendered characterics. Also, Toad and Toadette are neither siblings nor a couple. They're more like adventure pals as seen in Treasure Tracker, as Hayashida puts it. SmokedChili (Talk) (Thoughts) 13:22, 17 November 2014 (EST)
 * I guess the ambiguous genders make sense, given we've already seen what are basically naked Toads (although Hayashida may not have been aware of it). LinkTheLefty (talk) 09:05, 18 November 2014 (EST)
 * Here's an update - according to Shigeru Miyamoto (via Bill Trinen), it's more like Toads were first designed without set genders before more clearly female ones like Toadette started appearing, which isn't quite the same as a GameSpot translator or editor claiming they heard Koichi Hayashida flat-out saying that the entire species is genderless. LinkTheLefty (talk) 10:17, 19 December 2014 (EST)
 * Thanks a lot, man, this is what we needed since this whole GameSpot article has turned on my skeptic radars. We didn't need GameSpot journalists mucking up the whole thing with discord with their sensationalized crap. Anyway, this whole genderless thing would qualify as a misconception, and maybe it can have an entry in the List of rumors and urban legends about Mario article. 10:36, 19 December 2014 (EST)
 * Not that genderless Toads then and now are necessarily mutually exclusive ideas, but it does help your journalistic credibility if you at least offer the original language version alongside a translation; there's pretty much no ambiguity on what was directly spoken in the video source, whereas in the GameSpot article there's really no good way of anyone telling if things are being interpreted correctly (professional or otherwise). So, with that in mind, I don't see why this couldn't be considered a rumor, especially since the alleged report has spread well beyond GameSpot at this point. LinkTheLefty (talk) 11:57, 19 December 2014 (EST)
 * This is exactly the kind of stuff the rumor page was created for. I thought of suggesting it for there even before that interview, actually. --Glowsquid (talk) 14:06, 19 December 2014 (EST)
 * Well, then, let's go add another entry before the page as soon as we can. :) 17:38, 19 December 2014 (EST)
 * It's been added to the page. Feel free to add more information and sources if you can. 15:58, 20 December 2014 (EST)

Something worth clarifying here. In the GameSpot interview, Hayashida actually said they didn't give much thought to Toads' sex even though they still have gendered appearances. For some reason, the article was written in a weirdass way that repeated what Hayashida said but changed the words so that it became nothing like what was said. I blame this on the confusion between the terms "sex" and "gender". For example, this could still make Toadette a girl gender-wise while she lacks a sex. SmokedChili (Talk) (Thoughts) 14:58, 20 December 2014 (EST)
 * Did Hayashida explicitly said "sex"? I don't want to see different interpretations what people mean by "gender" and "sex". I was tempted to add it in the rumors page, but I'm adding some speculation and interpretation, which I really don't want to do in that page. 15:58, 20 December 2014 (EST)
 * Quoting Hayashida's answer:


 * This is maybe a little bit of a strange story, but we never really went out of our way to decide on the sex of these characters, even though they have somewhat gendered appearances. But I think what I can say is that Toadette and Toad are not siblings — perhaps it would be more accurate to say they are adventure pals. And that’s certainly true here.


 * So yeah, he said "sex". SmokedChili (Talk) (Thoughts) 16:21, 20 December 2014 (EST)

Make a Green Toad specific article.
I don't know how to make proposal but I think Green Toad need his own article since he appear in various game as a standalone character like Blue Toad (character) and Yellow Toad (character). He appear in Mario Party 9, Mario Party: Island Tour and will appear in Mario Party 10 as the host of the Almost There event. So, why not?--LudwigVon (talk) 17:08, 28 February 2015 (EST)

Create a Green Toad (Mario Party 9) article
I think Green Toad from Mario Party 9 need a article. He host the "Almost There!" events in the game and as you can see in the wiki, each host from the series have a article, so by the way, since Green Toad host something in the game, he need a article. So, why not?

Proposer: Deadline: March 29, 2015, 23:59 GMT.

Support

 * 1) Per my proposal. I reworded the proposal.
 * 2) I thought this would be hopeless, but now I see a chance. Per.
 * 3) Per proposal. I'm glad my suggestion went through.
 * 4) Per proposal.
 * 5) Per all.
 * 6) We've got pretty minor Toads with articles as well so I guess I don't see the issue here.
 * 7) That will do! Per all on this case!

Oppose

 * 1) I don't feel like the Green Toad from Mario Party 9 is really notable enough to warrant its own article. By the way, wouldn't Green Toad be a conjectural name?
 * 2) Opposing this because creating such an article would be based on conjecture itself. Is it really the same green Toad or multiple different ones every time? Are the blue and yellow Toad hosts the same as Blue Toad and Yellow Toad from New Super Mario Bros. games? Who hosts every Toad House in the games? Better keep this green Toad on the species page. I don't see how an article based on assumed singular character is worth it.

Comments
Exactly what games does Green Toad appear in? 13:13, 15 March 2015 (EDT)
 * In Mario Party 9, as the host of the Almost There! events, as a Toad to be rescue in Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon and as a playable character in the Baseball series.--LudwigVon (talk) 13:37, 15 March 2015 (EDT)
 * I'm PRETTY sure the Baseball Toads aren't considered the same characters as Blue and Yellow Toad and the like. -- 16:32, 15 March 2015 (EDT)

What about Blue Toad (character) and Yellow Toad (character) Andymii?--LudwigVon (talk) 14:36, 15 March 2015 (EDT)
 * Well, the Mario Party info should be taken off those pages, since we don't even know if it is the same blue/yellow toad. The only reason we have those pages is because they are recurring characters that have some sort of notable history, in the case of all the New Super Mario Bros. games from Wii and on, plus a brief Mario-Kun appearance. The problem with creating green Toad is that, along with not knowing if they all are all the same character, we also have no information on them. We don't want a page to only have one or two sentences; articles with a page like "this random green toad appears in front of a house and says 'hello' If you talk to him" and no more are ones that are marked as stubs and maybe even deleted. (Sorry for being a little confusing there.) Andymii (talk) 20:47, 16 March 2015 (EDT)
 * If the Green Toad (character) article proposal passed, the page, will content, he's playable appearance, he's appearance in Mario Party 9 as the host of the Almost There and as a Toad to rescue in Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon. (I will make my possible to not only having one or two sentences in that page, I only want to put information in games where only one Green Toad appear. (Like Yellow Toad and Blue Toad in NSMBWii) I hope you understand.--LudwigVon (talk) 20:53, 16 March 2015 (EDT)
 * You know, a good idea would to make a specific Green Toad (Mario Party 9) page, since there he actually does something. Unfortunately, correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears that you are suggesting instead to put all the information about all the green toads in the Marioverse on one page. Unfortunately, this is against wiki canon; Toads come in all colors, with virtually no differences in between them. I don't know what information you could put there, because as I said before, there isn't much information you can really add about the generic green toad. You'll notice that the blue and yellow Toads' pages are not about the whole entire group of Toads under that color, but rather about a single character. In short, I'm not against creating pages on specific characters (a.k.a Green Toad (Mario Party 9), but it is the sheer generality of the article you are proposing that doesn't seem right. I hope this helped explain what I mean. Andymii (talk) 22:37, 16 March 2015 (EDT)
 * I understand what you explain, that's a great idea to make a Green Toad (Mario Party 9) article, but like I say, I would put only in the article I want to create, Green Toad where he only appear as a single character (where only one Green Toad appear).--LudwigVon (talk) 19:06, 17 March 2015 (EDT)

So who is the green toad you are thinking about? Please give an example, and please remember, if we are to create the page, it should only cover one character, not green toads in general. Again, I'm not totally against what you are proposing, but it needs to be reworded. Andymii (talk) 21:45, 17 March 2015 (EDT)
 * If I can, I would reworded the proposal for creating a page about Green Toad that appear as a host of the Almost There events. Since Blue Toad and Yellow Toad has information about their Mario Party 9 appearance, I could do a page for Green Toad too.-- 12:08, 18 March 2015 (EDT)

The rules state that you can reword a proposal within three days. The problem is, since you posted this on the 15th, and it is currently the 18th, if you want to do it, you must do it now, like in less than thirty minutes (since our time is calculated in GMT). Hurry! Andymii (talk) 19:35, 18 March 2015 (EDT)
 * So, do I do it right? :) -- 19:39, 18 March 2015 (EDT)

Yeah, but you should fix the typos to make it more understandable. I'll give it some thought and maybe change my vote; for now, I'm just going to remove it. Andymii (talk) 21:00, 18 March 2015 (EDT)

@All opposing: due to the new proposal, your arguments are now moot. Please revote or they will be deleted. Andymii (talk) 21:05, 18 March 2015 (EDT)

SuperYoshiBros, I don't think this is a conjectural name. Do Yellow Toad and Blue Toad say their name in Mario Party 9? I don't think, so why Green Toad will be a conjectural name?-- 15:38, 19 March 2015 (EDT)
 * I'm not SuperYoshiBros, but I would agree with him that this would be a conjectural name. A conjectural name means no official name has been found. As Green Toad has never been mentioned by name, the proposed article's title would be conjectural. There's nothing wrong with them, though you'll have to add the template at the top. Andymii (talk) 19:33, 19 March 2015 (EDT)
 * Yeah, although Blue Toad and Yellow Toad are named thanks to the NSMB games, Green Toad has never been given an official name. -- 17:44, 20 March 2015 (EDT)

Notable Members
Shouldn't the 'Notable Members' section be trimmed? It inculdes more than 70 Toads... I think it should just include the most reccuring Toads.

Variants/derived species
For the life of me, I can't wrap my head around why you changed it, it was alright the way it was MarioLover54 (talk) 12:35, August 19, 2019 (EDT)


 * See the answer to your complaint on the Boom Boom talk page. I advise you not get repetitive with this. -- 12:44, August 19, 2019 (EDT)

The Toad near the Hazy Maze Cave entrance (Super Mario 64).
The Toad near the Hazy Maze Cave entrance, that holds a Power Star does not appear, until 12 Power Stars have been collected. The same number of Power Stars triggers the appearance of the Boos. I don't know why, and I couldn't locate any other Toads that behave similarly. (Super Mario 64, Nintendo 64, NA Version) Also, I didn't know where to put this information. Gomess 512 (talk) 16:40, February 23, 2020 (EST)

Quote
I think this quote says more about them, because really I think they were only kidnapped in a few games (as far as I know, aside from Super Mario Bros. they are normally either playable or in Toad Houses)--Magma. (talk) 13:37, May 21, 2020 (EDT)
 * So... --Magma. (talk) 13:36, June 27, 2020 (EDT)

About the name キノコー族
So, disclaimer, I don't know Japanese, but this "Perfect-ban: Mario Character Daijiten" thing, in the 35th page, says this about the term キノコ族: キノコ王国を裏切り、クッパに味方したキノコたち.

Just from a machine translation, it seems to describe キノコ族 as a group of mushrooms that betrayed the Mushroom Kingdom (like Goombas). I know the two terms aren't exactly the same, but I'm wondering if キノコー族 is actually supposed to be a name for the Toad species, or a more general term for a group of mushroom-like creatures.

85.243.109.179 16:45, February 21, 2021 (EST)

The redundancy of Yellow Toad and Blue Toad
I'm not sure what the best actual place for discussing this is as we are talking about two different Toads here but I decided to discuss it here so we could at least talk about both at the same time without having to talk about it in one of their talk pages.

I discussed this a bit in the Discord server but I feel we have certain problems regarding the way we handle Yellow Toad and Blue Toad. The problem is that we end up saying most of the same things regarding both Toads, creating an issue of once and only once.

To explain this issue, I'll provide examples from their most notable appearances:

New Super Mario Bros. Wii Both of these Toads play the same exact same role. Also, both of their articles have incredibly flowery writing that tries to make them look all "brave" for being a Toad but that's another issue entirely. Both of their personalities are barely touched upon.

New Super Mario Bros. U / New Super Luigi U / New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe

This is quite interesting but let's get started with the first and second games.

NSMBU has the same exact issue in which there is barely enough worth talking about without bringing up the other Toad. The same applies with Luigi U so nothing worth talking about there.

NSMBUDX is interesting for the fact that Toadette replaces Blue Toad in the cutscenes but Blue Toad is still a selectable color for Yellow Toad (who is renamed Toad in this game). While this game does technically give Yellow Toad more focus, there still isn't a whole lot unique you can say about Blue Toad, and this decision to make Blue Toad a palette swap, speaks volumes for how little unique information both Toads have.

Super Mario-kun Given that this manga tries parody the original events of the games, there isn't much to be said about their appearances and these mangas are hard to find so I can't be certain of their information.

Mario Sports Superstars This is one of the trickier examples as these are just covering Toads in their power-up forms. I guess they are only here because of the fact that the forms also appeared in their games but I feel we are stretching a little bit of what we cover with these characters. Regardless, both of these games don't do anything to explain both Toads exclusively.

Mario Kart Tour This is yet another case of us covering a bit too much like in Sports Superstars, but that is barely the issue of what I'm bringing up.

The conclusion in all of this is that we cover both of these Toads as if they have enough information to split them on but in actuality, they really don't. I've honestly thought about making a proposal on merging these two but I did want to talk about the information regarding these two here and hear other people's opinions first. I apologize if this isn't the right place, but it felt weird having to discuss this issue in just one place. --Wikiboy10 (talk) 18:04, April 20, 2022 (EDT)
 * Just as a side note, I did fix the New Super Mario Bros. Wii to remove the extra bloat added on to their sections. 19:02, April 20, 2022 (EDT)
 * There are two viable solutions I can see: one is to merge these non-subject Toads and "Toad (species)" to Toad, and the other is to have the five main "[color] Toads" (yes, including Red, which doesn't include Captain Toad or "normal" Toad) be general articles regardless of exact role, as SMM2 treats them as actual names (and notes the uncreativity). Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 19:25, April 20, 2022 (EDT)

FACELESS TOAD
Faceless Toads need their own article. - Oaktree13