Talk:Goomboss

Who races the Goomba King in the mission mode of Mario Kart DS? --Son of Suns 19:20, 26 June 2006 (EDT)
 * Toad. I added the info in. :) -Wayoshi 19:34, 26 June 2006 (EDT)

Mario Kart DS
I've never played Mario Kart DS, but does the game ever say that Goomboss and the Goomba King are the same person? -- Y ' o ' s ' h ' i ' 6 ' 2  6  16:02, 16 January 2007 (EST)


 * No game does, it is heavily implied, just like it is implied Chubbies are Monty Moles. -- Son of Suns
 * I agree, but how come this is different? -- Y ' o ' s ' h ' i ' 6 ' 2  6 [[Image:Egg.PNG|20px]] 16:20, 16 January 2007 (EST)


 * Because in SM64 (the original version) there was an enemy named "Big Boo". The Big Boo from SM64 DS could be this same Big Boo, but it is likely King Boo, a different character. There was no Goomboss or Goomba King in the original version of SM64. -- Son of SUns
 * Huh, I never thought of it like that. Thanks. -- Y ' o ' s ' h ' i ' 6 ' 2  6 [[Image:Egg.PNG|20px]] 16:42, 16 January 2007 (EST)

Anybody notice that in MKDS, he has white eyebrows while in Paper Mario, they are just black. Has this Goomba aged?

It's been over 5 years since Gooma King last attacked so yeah. Paper Jorge

Goomboss
We should change this to Goomboss. I haven't seen him called Goomba King since Paper Mario. Our Blooper page isn't called Bloober, is it?!? Para Yoshi Wahoo! 20:32, 17 January 2007 (EST)
 * Good point. But please, try to make your screenshots a bit less fuzzier..
 * I have a Mac and OF COURSE they don't make screenshot processors for MAC !!!!!!! I have to stick with a regular camera. <:( [[Image:Parayoshiicon.jpg|20px]] Para Yoshi Wahoo![[Image:Parayoshiicon.jpg|20px]] 20:35, 17 January 2007 (EST)
 * My digital camera won't take screenshots AT ALL. And I'm stuck with a Windows!
 * I argue with the first comment. He was first Goomba King in his first appearance. He had a crown and King-like clothes. His original name is Goomba King. --General Kelty 18:08, 7 April 2007 (EDT)


 * I think the newest name should be the title. That's how it works at Wikipedia anyway. I   am   Confused  12:07, 8 April 2007 (EDT)

Goomboss = Goomba King?
How do we know that Goomba King has changed his name from Goomba King and Goomboss? Sure they look the same, but is there any proof at all saying that Goomboss is the same as Goomba King? I  am   Confused  22:04, 21 April 2007 (EDT)

Aside from their near identical appearance, no, theres no real proof; so, what should be done about this? -- Sir Grodus

State that it is implied they are the same. -- Son of Suns

Just say that in PM, he was known as Goomba king, but is now known as Goomboss.

They are defintaly the same guys. his basic appearence could be coincidence but they have the same color striped pants to.-Pal101

Just one question: if the "Goomba King" was enlarged by the Star Rod, how could he be Goomboss, if Super Mario 64 DS takes place chronologically BEFORE Paper Mario? If that question could be answered, I'd bet few people would have any more problems with it. That's not to say I don't agree with the merge, though- I'd just like that explained. 12:07, 24 May 2007 (EDT)

Aside from appearence they do have more similarities. They both semm insane. They both stomp back and forth and watch both there eyes. They go up and down alot. Also Super Mario 64 and Super Mario 64 DS are different enough to be considered two seperet incidents.-Pal101

I am glad you have an open mind about it though {{User:Pal101))

Honestly, I consider SM64DS a remake, telling an updated version of the same events- or better yet, sort of a Special Edition. 20:53, 26 May 2007 (EDT)

Okay so we may never truly know. Lets bug Nintendo about it until they give us the answer. User:Pal101

Did Bowser ever say he enlarged the Goomba King with the Star Rod? I believe these are the only lines of dialogue where Bowser mentions the Goomba King's power.

Bowser: "What? Unbelievable! What was the Goomba King thinking? I used the Star Rod to make him a King because he begged me...And Mario whips him so easily? What a wimp!! Uh...Kammy Koopa! You ARE sure Mario can never defeat us, right?" ... Bowser: "...Psst! Kammy Koopa... Are you sure these guys can get the job done? That Goomba King was gigantic and even he couldn't beat Mario." R Ninjakoopa: "Pshaw! Get real, King Bowser! Yeah, the Goomba King was huge, but he was a total wimpola! We're nothing like him! See, what we've got going on is the power of teamwork...Together, we can put the hurt on Mario in seconds flat!"

--Alan Redgown56 17:45, 22 August 2007 (EDT)

Um... that quote takes place after Mario beat Goomboss. It was talking about how big he was in the fight. {{User:Max2/sig}}.

I'll write a letter to Nintendo of America asking if Goomboss and Goomba King are the same character!-KP Shadow

I think that if we are going to merge goomboss and the goomba king, we should merge kammy koopa and kamella-primid snake
 * Goomboss and Goomba King are already merged, there's no "going to" in it. - {{User:Cobold/sig}} 12:10, 30 March 2008 (EDT)

What I ment was if were going to make them the same article. I thought you could infer that.-primid snake

I think that in Super Mario 64 DS his name was Goomboss first but in Paper Mario, Bowser gave him king status, but when he was defeated he lost his royalty and became Goomboss again. MarioFan9999 11:14, 27 July 2008 (EDT)

Mention that...
Shouldn't we at least meniton that it isn't %100 confirmed if Goomboss and Gommba King are the same? HyperToad
 * As far as I know, his name is always the same in Japanese ("Kuri King"), which implies that they are really the same. --Grandy02 15:41, 16 August 2008 (EDT)

made of Goombas
When I was playing Super Mario 64 DS, I noticed when he exploded goombas came out of him. Does that mean he is made of Goombas?
 * That... would be weird. I think that when he's beaten, he splits into Goombas, but I don't think we should care that much about it.

Well, Boolossus is made of Boos, so maybe Goomboss is made of goombas? At any rate, he would then have some motivation to be turned into a king: The Star Rod's magic would probably make his form stable. Goombomb
 * It's probably just a reference to the Big Goombas, which splits into two Goombas when jumped on. --Metalex123 (talk) 23:10, 17 April 2016 (EDT)

Merge Chestnut King into this
They have the same Japanese name, and thus are highly likely to be the same character. 21:21, 5 May 2014 (EDT)
 * Nope, it may be implied, but the only evidence is the Japanese name. 14:17, 6 May 2014 (EDT)
 * It might be a reference to the character of the same name from the prequel, but Luigi embellishes his own story and the Super Luigi author further romanticizes his adventures, so it's still a separate interpretation of the character. LinkTheLefty (talk) 08:20, 16 May 2014 (EDT)

Move the information about the "Chesnut King" currently on the List of implied characters to this page
A while back, there was a proposal to move various article about unseen characters to the previously-mentioned page and I argued the Chestnut King (mentioned in the "Super Luigi" books in Paper Mario TTYD) page should be merged here because X, Y, and Z. The vote didn't go my way but I didn't think the opposition's arguments were very compelling, and I still think this the proper place for the information. I'll adress them all


 * It was a deliberate change by the translators: The original Japanese script and every other official translations of the game call this character "Goomba King". The English translation is alone in this. As detailled here, the English translation of TTYD mangles or remove several references made to the original Paper Mario. Occam's Razor would dictate this is yet another goof.
 * The "Chesnut King" is described differently from the Goomba King and has different motivation: That is true, but there's an in-universe justification: the gag of Super Luigi is that Luigi's account of his adventures and the in-universe book are humorously embelished, as talking to Luigi's partners will reveal how lame or embarassing the events actually were. Making the easy tutorial boss of the previous game into the main villain of the quest and giving an Hollywood ending to a calvacade of farce totally fits with the joke of Super Luigi.
 * The books never acknowledge at any point the Goomba King is a pre-existing character: While this is somewhat odd from an out-of-universe perspective, nothing in the content of the story truly necessitates bringing that up and Luigi never meets the Goomba King during the original Paper Mario.

Basically, think of it this way: If Treehouse had named the character "Goomba King" (as everyone else around the globe did) back in 2004, would we have editors today vehemently arguing the information should be split because they obviously cannot be the same character? In my mind: obviously not.

Proposer: Deadline: December 28, 2018, 23:59 GMT Extended to January 4, 2018, 23:59 GMT

Move here (Goomboss played us like a damn fiddle!)

 * 1) GO ME
 * 2) A gag of references to previous bosses continued with the Grodus Chronicles, I dare say. Anyways, per proposal.
 * 3) Per all.
 * 4) Per all.
 * 5) Per all. It's likely to be a botched translation.
 * 6) I'll repeat myself from last time: "if the English translators had just picked up on the name back in the day like every other localization, would this even be up for debate?" I've yet to see the opposition answer such an essential question.
 * 7) Luigi might be full of shit, but I don't think the localizers for literally every other language are as well.
 * 8) If every other language calls the the chestnut king the Goomba King, then chances are that the english translation mistranslated the name. Per all and my comment below.
 * 9) Well, in my country I didn't have this issue to begin with thanks to localizers who did their homework, considering how even in this case the Japanese name confirms that they weren't wrong, I can only agree with them and this proposal! (By the way, the Spanish team agrees with them as well)
 * 10) Per all aside, I don't see how Goomba King and Chestnut King being different individuals is a good reason to keep them separate when there's Puzzle & Dragons SMB with its multiple King Boos and Petey Piranhas, and Goomboss from SM64DS who doesn't have Goomba King and Chestnut King's background of being transformed.
 * 11) Per all. The Waffle Kingdom sounds very similar to the Mushroom Kingdom with it having a princess and a consoler but not a hero or else they won't need Mario's or Luigi's help. Couple by the fact that Goombas can appear anywhere in the world, it is very likely it is a Goomba King. This part is speculation (and yes I do realize that Nintendo (America) gave him his name, I am not discrediting them, I am just speculating why it could be that way from an in-game perspective), but due to Goombas looking like Chestnuts, the residents of Waffle Kingdom probably called them after Chestnuts and called their leader Chestnut King. Even if Minister Crepe was the one who transformed the prince to the Chestnut King, it is still possible that he based it off of Goombas. And based on this, I think a Goomba King is the best name to call him. Exactly the Goomba King of Paper Mario or Goomboss of Super Mario 64 DS and Mario Kart DS, unlikely (with or without that speculation of why he is called Chestnut King). But those two are unlikely to be the same too. Hence, the reason of support.

Stay on List of Implied (Chestnut King is an actual Chestnut King. He is a new one. That Treehouse invented.)

 * 1) - I'll hold to my original thoughts. The only 100% connection I can find is the Japanese name, everything else is different. Sure, Luigi could be fudging some details, but from what I can remember, Luigi's partners never say anything about the Chestnut King, meaning Luigi's word and Super Luigi is all we have to go off of (perhaps someone could prove me wrong there). The creation of the Chestnut King is also noteworthy, I believe: He's Princess Eclair's lover transformed. Certainly not the story Goomboss goes through.
 * 2) Per Alex95 and the previous proposal.
 * 3) Per all. Honestly, I would have liked it better if we could do both, but I'm opposing for now until we get a proposal with such an option. Then again, both pages feature this information to some capacity, so...what even is the point of this proposal?
 * 4) Per all.
 * 5) I didn't support this last time, I'm not supporting it now.
 * 6) Per all without seeing the character firsthand we have no idea what he was embellishing and what he wasn't so the argument that he was just lying about the description doesn't hold water with me. In addition while they may have the same name in Japanese that in no way proves they are the same character or that Nintendo was intending for them to be the same.
 * 7) Per all.
 * 8) I think it would be speculating when saying that they are intended to be the same character. Per Chester Alan Arthur.
 * 9) Per all.
 * 10) Per all. Would be nice if the connection was mentioned in this article, though.
 * 11) Per Alex95.

Comments
@Alex As addressed in the proposal, "Making the easy tutorial boss of the previous game into the main villain of the quest and giving an Hollywood ending to a calvacade [sic] of farce totally fits with the joke of Super Luigi." Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 13:09, 13 December 2018 (EST)
 * And as I said, Luigi and Super Luigi is all we have to go off of. No matter how much of the information is true or false, it's the only information available. 13:17, 13 December 2018 (EST)
 * The only information available is not the unreliable narrator and his even-less reliable book. Note that when speaking with Luigi, the tale seems more in-line with the partners' stories than the books are. The books seem hyper-embellished (ie role in play going from grass to "earth spirit"), and only in the books is the "fiancee to Eclair" thing mentioned. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 14:05, 13 December 2018 (EST)
 * Does Luigi ever contradict the Chestnut King's origins though? Yes, the books are clearly embellished, but if Luigi and his partners don't contradict certain parts, we have no evidence to say "well it's probably made up". -- 16:33, 13 December 2018 (EST)
 * As said in the Goomba page The original Japanese name, Kuribo, translates to "Chestnut Boy", which was due to the designs looking more like chestnuts than shiitake mushrooms. Perhaps Goomboss being changed to the Chestnut King is a reference to goomba's original Japanese name, with the gag being that Luigi confused a goomba with a chestnut, especially since goombas tend to look more like chestnuts than shiitake mushrooms. 16:45, 13 December 2018 (EST)
 * Why wouldn't Luigi tell him that detail if he'd write about it and it actually happened? He basically said "I beat him and then there was a demon thing and I won, and that's all that happened." If he was willing to tell him about the grass, surely he'd be willing to tell him about how he was cheated out of a relationship because the dog the apparent villain was the true fiance? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 15:47, 17 December 2018 (EST)

@Chester It's not just Japanese. It's every language aside from English. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 13:49, 17 December 2018 (EST)

While we're on the topic, can we do something about Goomstar Temple on the list of implied locations instead of a redirect to Crystal Palace, or is that also a particularly contentious one? LinkTheLefty (talk) 15:40, 17 December 2018 (EST)
 * I'm fine with merging Goomstar Temple with Crystal Palace. At least that connection is much more straightforward than the Chestnut King/Goomba King one. 21:53, 20 December 2018 (EST)

@SmokedChili: They're the same Petey Piranha and King Boo, just as a rematch. 10:43, 23 December 2018 (EST)
 * If there can be multiple of them, how can they be the same? SmokedChili (talk) 11:20, 23 December 2018 (EST)
 * I'd say Puzzle & Dragons is a strange outlier in that regard. The other games, with the exception of Mario Hoops 3-on-3 (which has two Peteys for some reason) show only one Petey and King Boo, goop clone in Sunshine aside. -- 14:21, 23 December 2018 (EST)

@Yoshi the SSM: You realize your entire vote is based on speculation, right? Also, Goomba King/Goomboss are nearly identical except for Goomboss now having white eyebrows, and have the same name in Japanese. -- 11:59, 26 December 2018 (EST)
 * It's not entirely. I said that the Waffle Kingdom has a princess and a consoler. The princess is obviously Princess Éclair. But, Minister Crepe doesn't obviously sound like a consoler at first, but if you look at his German name, he is basically the same as Toadsworth, but different. And thus, I believe he has the same role as him. As for Goombas appearing around the world, the Goombas seen in that game don't come from Bowser's army. Thus, it is indeed possible for Goombas to be in the Waffle Kingdom. As for being different Goomba Kings, this is supported by the fact that PM became that way due to the Star Rod (and was singular). SM64DS became that way due to lots of Goombas coming together. But, other than that, we have no evidence that says that they are different, nor any evidence (besides the Japenese name) that they are the same. 10:16, 27 December 2018 (EST)
 * Yes, it is entirely. None of what you're saying in your vote has any relevance whatsoever, it's just baseless speculation that does absolutely nothing to justify a merge. Your points about the differences between the PM and SM64DS incarnations of Goomba King/Goomboss are also irrelevant, as continuity between completely different series of games is not a thing. TTYD is a direct sequel to the first Paper Mario, so differences in characterization are much more relevant here. Furthermore, you keep mentioning that there's no evidence they are the same; that's a reason not to merge them. Motion to have your vote removed; we do not merge articles based on fan theories. 22:22, 27 December 2018 (EST)
 * There is evidence, namely that English is the only language to foul up the translation, which it did many other times. Saying they're different is far more speculation-based than saying they're the same, and once again, there has not seemed to be an answer to the "would we be having this discussion if the English translation called him Goomba King?" question. Please answer it. I motion to have answering that be a requirement to voting "keep split," as without it, the arguments against look like a "one true canon" sort of speculative deal. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 22:26, 27 December 2018 (EST)
 * There is something else I see. The issue of TTYD being a direct sequel to the first PM being the reason why characterization is more relevant. And I don't think this is a just cause. This is because it takes place in an implied kingdom. So, I looked at things implied and for implied characters. During that search I found the German name of Minister Crepe being similar to Toadsworth. And thus I believe they share the same role. But, it is nothing more than implied they share the same role, not proved. Plus, I don't have the game, so this site is what I have to go on. 09:37, 28 December 2018 (EST)
 * What does Minister Crepe having a similar government role to Toadsworth have to do with Goomboss and Chestnut King though? All I see is you talking about similarities between the Mushroom Kingdom and Waffle Kingdom, then somehow coming to the conclusion that Goomboss and the Chestnut King are separate characters but arguing to merge them anyway because you perceive Goomba King and Goomboss to be separate characters. -- 13:17, 28 December 2018 (EST)
 * Yeah, that does sound like I am reading into the lines too much. However, my vote is my take on my view of the situation. As for TTYD, PM, and SM64DS versions being different idea, I thought because of their Japanese names that they should be grouped together. Yes, it appears TTYD has a loser connection to PM than SM64DS, but both have one thing in common: their English names are different from PM, but their Japanese names are the same. The only difference may be that chestnut is not associated with Goombas in English (while boss is similar to king). But, chestnut is in Japanese. 14:08, 28 December 2018 (EST)
 * @Yoshi the SSM: What are you even trying to say? All I'm getting from your comment is "the Japanese names are the same, so they should be merged." No. If that were true, we would've merged Toadette and Vanna T. a long time ago.
 * @Doc: The Big Boo from Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon shares Boolossus' name in Japanese. In English it doesn't, and we instead list its information on the Big Boo article. But if the English translators had called him Boolossus instead, LMDM Big Boo's info would probably be on the Boolossus' article right now. I'm not necessarily saying LMDM Big Boo's info shouldn't be on the Boolossus article; there are obvious similarities between the two that support a merge. The point is that the "what if" scenario is not nearly as important as you think it is. Like that Chancellor/Toad Minister proposal that's going on right now. If the English names were the same it would probably have more support than it does now, and there's also a possibility the articles wouldn't have been separate to begin with. I'm neutral on that issue, but I'd vote to support that long before this, because again, similarities beyond just the names. The Chestnut King gives me nothing to go on. He's an unseen character in an unseen kingdom consisting entirely of new characters with no obvious connection to the Goomba King other than the name. 00:21, 29 December 2018 (EST)

@Toadette's edit to his vote: That's very unlikely to get any traction due to it could be violating the Once and only once policy. Plus, it is mentioned in the trivia on this page right now. 10:16, 27 December 2018 (EST)
 * How exactly would it violate the policy? 12:19, 27 December 2018 (EST)

Is it just me, or none of the opposition votes addressed the "That Treehouse invented" part of the vote? I'm not even sure if what the Japanese script says about this character is known. Considering how the discovery of the Japanese script describing the same character as the English script bar the mistranslated name would invalidate the concept of Treehouse having invented the character, should we consider rewriting the opposing vote so that it matches the consensus among the people who oppose better?--Mister Wu (talk) 19:33, 28 December 2018 (EST)
 * I think it was more of a jab at the opposition than anything. -- 19:38, 28 December 2018 (EST)

Here's what it comes down to for me. Yes, Goomboss and the Chestnut King share the same name in several languages, but the Chestnut King's backstory is very different to that of Goomboss. That name is the only evidence in support of this merge, and the supporters are handwaving the Chestnut King's backstory as "probably made up". However, all the information we have about the Chestnut King comes from two unreliable narrators; Luigi, and the author of the Super Luigi books. While both authors indisputably fudged a lot of the details, who are we to say which details are made up just because we want to merge an article? I'd argue that doing so would be nothing but pure speculation. -- 21:24, 2 January 2019 (EST)