Talk:Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS / Wii U

Since the title is conjectural, wouldn't it be a good idea to simplify it to Super Smash Bros. (3DS/Wii U)? 14:40, 11 June 2013 (EDT)

How exactly is the title conjectural in the first place, though? I got this logo from the SmashWiki, and there's a similar one for the 3DS version: Pseudo-dino (talk) 14:54, 11 June 2013 (EDT)


 * It doesn't seem like... a title. It seems they put a "for" to differentiate the two games, not as part of the title of the game. 15:00, 11 June 2013 (EDT)
 * Yes, but it's the closest thing we have to a title for the time being, and it comes from an official source. Even if it's just a working title, it's not conjectural. Pseudo-dino (talk) 16:14, 11 June 2013 (EDT)


 * It's a working title, we should have something better before long. -- 16:17, 11 June 2013 (EDT)
 * Should we keep the conjecture tag for the time being? It seems official enough to me (what if this actually is the official name, no matter how unlikely?), but obviously there's some disagreement. Pseudo-dino (talk) 16:25, 11 June 2013 (EDT)
 * We'll keep it, yeah. And even if it may seem official (it doesn't to me), it is not. -- 16:27, 11 June 2013 (EDT)
 * Er, the conjecture tag was removed, and not by me. I agree with removal, again, since the name is sourced. Should it stay this way? Pseudo-dino (talk) 18:00, 11 June 2013 (EDT)

Another New Comer???
I was just browsing the Super Smash Bros. 3DS/WiiU site and noticed space in the bottom right corner on the character roster, There's another newcomer to be announced!!!! - Cubeguy(talk)

Update!! Further probing reveals through the roster reveals six more character slots!! There's defiantly one more newcomer!!! - Cubeguy(talk)


 * There is a wide space on the bottom right corner, but I guess that's space for two veterans. 00:00, 12 June 2013 (EDT)


 * Well it could be, but it wouldn't surprise me if they decided to round the numbers of for the newcomers. Im hopping! - Cubeguy2ver.pnguy(talk)

Special characters for different versions?
So i just rellised that there is no footage or images of the wii fit trainer on the 3ds version, so i have the feeling that there are certain characters on certain versions. - Cubeguy(talk)

Forget that. - Cubeguy(talk)

Characters
Just wondering. Would it be safe to assume that all of the original twelve would appear in this game? User:FireFlower
 * Probably, but it's best to wait until they're announced before adding it in.

Even like Jigglypuff or Captin Falcon User:FireFlower
 * Yes, because they haven't been announced so it'd be classed as speculation and removed.

We can already assume Ness Luigi and Sonic will return. It's Luigi's year, Mother 3 will be released in Europe. Nintendo have scored Sonic so he can return to the series royalty free. Plus they are working in adding many characters as possible so we will see many newcomers first party and 3rd party. User:Donaldthescotishtwin
 * But someone said that the characters would be limited because of the 3DS' capabilities, and so not everyone is returning.

The game is still early in development is it not? Down the line eventually the 3DS version will have a smaller rooster but with more newcomers to replace characters that could not make it, and those will be the ones returning for the WiiU version. The 3Ds may have even more newcomers than the WiiU. There's also the possibility of DLC yes they are not considering it now, but they listen to the fans and they are able to now so it would be crazy not to have downloadable characters. User:Donaldthescotishtwin

3D OOT
Since the 3DS version has stages based on portable titles shouldn't we say gerudo valley is based of Ocrania of Time 3D?

It mostly likly will but we wo n't know for quite awhile. - Cubeguy(talk)

Forget that the stages where in the trailer. - Cubeguy(talk)

It was said a long time ago that the characters are the same and the sages are different.

Wii Fit Soccer Ball
I believe that's part of Wii Fit Trainer's moves, not an item by itself. Look at 6:55 in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQD1yJinzeQ&feature=player_detailpage#t=414s --Baconator (talk) 00:02, 14 June 2013 (EDT)

THE TITLE IS ANNOUNCED!!
The title's are simple Super Smash Bros. One is for the 3DS and the other for the WiiU. Here is the link to the article containing it and a bunch of new inforamtion - Cubeguy(talk)

Ice Climbers
"Mentioned during a Q&A with Masahiro Sakurai as some characters being worked on, but may not make it."

This does not confirm them or deny them. He just used them as an example. So I do not think they should be there. Crash-Bash (talk) 16:55, 14 June 2013 (EDT)

Another three characters
If you go on the mobile version of the official website click on somebody scroll all the way down it will show characters go to the third page and it will show 3 empty slots!!! 68.149.81.38

Cubeguy already mentioned that, didn't you hear?


 * Yeah, im all other this like......um....when i was with Luigis Mansion 2. - Cubeguy2ver.pnguy(talk)

Update Artwork
Shouldn't the artwork of all the characters be updated from the Brawl photos to the new ones released ? 15:16, 19 June 2013 (EDT)
 * You mean for articles such as Kirby, Link, and Fox McCloud? I don't know, actually, but I feel that people won't let us change the artwork until the game is released. 15:21, 19 June 2013 (EDT)

Possible boxarts
Her you go: http://www.mariowiki.com/File:SSB4_boxart_2.jpeg http://www.mariowiki.com/images/7/7c/ShyGuyRed-CSS2-MSS.png Shyman


 * Sorry that's fan art, which is something we don't cover here.


 * 11:24, 22 June 2013 (EDT)
 * @YoshiKong: Don't you mean something we don't' cover here? -- 11:25, 22 June 2013 (EDT)


 * Yes that's exactly what I meant lol. After two work shifts in one day I don't think my hand-eye co-ordination is being careful with the keyboard strokes :P


 * 11:30, 22 June 2013 (EDT)


 * May i just say the titles of the games where announced earlier, which i posted here with the link to the article. Just saying we can easily dodge fan art covers as the names for both games is just Super Smash Bros. - Cubeguy2ver.pnguy(talk)

Yellow Devil explanation
I put Yellow devil on the page back during Megamans reveal trailer at E3, but i really didn't explain where he is seen. Frankly if it wasn't for a friend i wouldn't have noticed him. After the Smash bros. title at the end of the trailer, there is a small scene, a few seconds long, showing megaman about to face Yellow Devil on the Wilys castle stage, i dont know if it is apart of classic mode or the new adventure mode, most likely the latter. I hope this clears up any confusion. - Cubeguy(talk)

Donkey Kong Country Returns stage?
First of all why is this in the 3DS stage selection unless it's the 3DS version, and second could we move this to Other until it is actually revealed if its a stage or part of story mode. - Cubeguy(talk)
 * Just mentioning that although there will be no story mode it could be part of an adventure mode. I agree, I think it should be moeved to Other. MarioComix (talk) 01:05, 9 August 2013 (EDT)
 * Adventure Mode? Story Mode? Whats the difference same thing,was a bit confused for a bit and started going on a pointless search. Also i recommend proper investigations in to stages from now.
 * Well I believe that Melee had an Adventure mode, which was just a unique single player mode with no real storyline, while Brawl had a true Story mode with cutscenes and all. I'm just saying that with the confirmation of no story mode and cutscenes, it's still possible to see an Adventure mode like seen in Melee. MarioComix (talk) 03:47, 12 August 2013 (EDT)
 * I remember though there being an article from an interview stating that all the story mode cut scenes would be unlocked from the beginning for some reason. im just putting this out there. - Cubeguy2ver.pnguy(talk)

Now, are we SURE...
Now, it says that as "Part of the Year of Luigi", Luigi will be a playable character in SSB 3ds/Wii U. Luigi appears in previous installments as a playable character, are we SURE that it's part of the YoL??? 12:38, 9 August 2013 (EDT)
 * I don't think it is, considering the game comes out next year, after the Year of Luigi has finished.
 * Well, seeing that it comes out in '2014, that's next Year, right??? 13:59, 9 August 2013 (EDT)
 * Yep, that's basically what I said :P

What it meant was that as part of the Year of Luigi, they announced him earlier than usual, since in the past games he was a secret character and would remain hidden for a while. MarioComix (talk) 17:19, 9 August 2013 (EDT)

Different Final Smashes?
This looks similar to some kind of final smash. Is it just me, or does it look like a new Final Smash? Thats what I think. 08:14, 16 August 2013 (EDT)
 * If this was a new Final Smash, then that would mean they pretty much confirmed five-player mode with this screenshot. We will just have to wait and see. DK Fan
 * It's the X Bomb from Kid Icarus, it's a new item.
 * That doesn't look like the X-bomb. Can someone confirm this, also if it is a characters smash then it wouldnt confirm 5 player support, honestly why would there be 5 players. - Cubeguy2ver.pnguy(talk)
 * I can't get direct quotes from Miiverse, but this has the quote http://www.ssbwiki.com/X_Bomb
 * I see it now, sorry for the inconvenience. - Cubeguy2ver.pnguy(talk)

Multiplayer mode
Does this have multiplayer mode??? Is it like NSMB2, where only local works, or like LMDM, where you can play online (3DS)???


 * Muliplayers one of the key aspects of the Super Smash Bros. games so it's not surprising if it is included. Though the process for playing multiplayer on 3ds where by its required for all participants to have a copy of the game or not is not known. These connectivity questions are usually answered towards the games release so just wait till then. - Cubeguy2ver.pnguy(talk)

Split Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS / Wii U into and
DO NOT SPLIT 1-11

I feel that these articles should be split - there's a lot of information and pictures differentiating the two, and even new sets of courses. This is NOT a remake like Donkey Kong Country Returns 3D is, and we have an article for that game.

Proposer: Deadline: September 14 2013, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) Per proposal.

Oppose

 * 1) We should wait until we have more info on this game before splitting the page. There would also be a lot of duplicate information on each page. Also per Tails777.
 * 2) Not until we got more information, probably the name will be changed. Otherwise per Mario7 and the guy underneath me.
 * 3) Then we'd have to split the Mario & Sonic games since they have home and handheld versions. Per all.
 * 4) We should wait more. They were announced at the same time, and have a lot in common.
 * 5) - Per Mario7 and Tails777.
 * 6) Per Tucayo.
 * 7) Way too little is known besides the systems individual graphics and courses. Everything else could be the same or not. Until both games are out they should be left alone.
 * 8) I don't think the games have enough unique things to warrant their own seperate articles.
 * 9) Per all.
 * 10) Per Tucayo.
 * 11) Not enough information to split it now, per all.

Comments
Now that I think about it - we have an article for Super Mario All-Stars Limited Edition, and that's nothing more than Super Mario All-Stars with a CD in the case. -- 11:52, 31 August 2013 (EDT)

@Tails777: Actually the Mario & Sonic games are different too, so I'd also like to have them split. I'll probably make a proposal for that sort of thing. -- 16:02, 1 September 2013 (EDT)


 * The policy does indeed call for the two games to be split, which must happen eventually (and perhaps with the gallery as well). But now isn't a good time. The amount of information about the game is still very limited, and it seems that the best thing to do is to have all the known info collected onto the one page as of now.


 * 04:27, 2 September 2013 (EDT)

If i may say, and this might not be of any use but something to keep in mind, is that both games are not coming out at the same time. The one that comes out first, most likly the WiiU version as a large portion of images and video seem to come from it, will come out allowing development on this main article which if the splitting does happen at a later stage, is no real big deal as the article weill be more aimed at the version that was first released. Just saying to keep this thought, possibility in mind. - Cubeguy(talk)


 * We'll try our very best to maintain clarity between both articles. And besides, it's not as if everyone will choose the Wii U version over the 3DS one: in the long run I think they will both become as complete as each other. Ohhhhhh I'm so excited!


 * 07:19, 4 September 2013 (EDT)

What did choosing have to do with anything i said? I was just making a hunch due to the amount of media that was focused on the WiiU version. - Cubeguy(talk)

Bump. 16:32, 13 September 2013 (EDT)
 * What?
 * I'm bumping the discussion. 16:38, 13 September 2013 (EDT)
 * There is literally no reason to do so, if the users are going to continue their discussion they will, if they don't they don't.
 * Whatever. I don't really care :| 16:41, 13 September 2013 (EDT)
 * You must care if you went to the trouble of those posts. - Cubeguy2ver.pnguy(talk)
 * Why the fuck are you continuing this? 08:36, 14 September 2013 (EDT)


 * Easy now, guys.


 * 08:40, 14 September 2013 (EDT)

This is called Super Smash Bros. 4 by SmashWiki, so why do we say SSBF3DS/WIIU?!?!
The Mario series is less represented in this game and the title is goofy. There's no relation to the title by Donkey Kong and Donkey Kong, so why call it this dumb title? Also, the Fake ? Panel should be called ¿ Panel instead. But only ONE stage based on Mario appears, and that is Super Mario 3D Land?!?! That's it! ¿¡@& this title and just call it Super Smash Bros. 4.

UnshyGuy

It's called this, because at this current moment in time it is its official name.


 * Im just adding this, but it was never actually called SSB4 at all, its been Super Smash Bros. For 3DS & WiiU since its announcment. - Cubeguy2ver.pnguy(talk)

"Other Characters"
I had removed this section in a rewrite before because there is really no confirmation that they are characters. For all we know, they could serve different purposes within the game, such as stage "objects," Assist Trophies (should those return), bosses, or items. It also kind of strikes me as inconsistent to list them as characters and format it differently from other sections about characters. 20:10, 28 October 2013 (EDT)


 * Indeed, it seems like speculation to list them as "characters" when they could actually be, as you said, another element such as stage object. But we're not yet sure how they appear, but nevertheless they do. So it would be acceptable to list them as "others", and their role within the game can be elaborated on as more information becomes available.


 * 03:33, 29 October 2013 (EDT)


 * It does make sense to include them in a manner similar to the one suggested– not including them at all would render the article incomplete. However, my one concern is that "others" is a little too generic as its own heading (like, other whats, exactly?). I think it would be acceptable if there was something else a little more specific but that does not indicate them as characters yet. 03:49, 29 October 2013 (EDT)


 * That's true. Having a separate header titled "Others" wouldn't seem logical. Perhaps, as we use "Others" under the stages header to describe unidentified stages, we could have "Others" listed under the characters header. Or alternatively, we could have two separate main headers: "Playable characters" and "Other characters".


 * 04:10, 29 October 2013 (EDT)
 * We could add something along the lines of "The roles of these characters is unconfirmed at the moment" under the header. Or just call it "Unknown Characters". Just throwing out suggestions. -- bluereddarkorangegreenpurple
 * Since we got rid of "Others" under the "Stages" header, perhaps we should just go with the separate "Other characters" header as YoshiKong suggested and add a disclaimer like Skittles suggested. Should the section be formatted in a list (as it was before) or in tables (like most of the other sections are)? If we go with tables, we will need to get images of the "other characters." 16:55, 4 November 2013 (EST)

Donkey Kong Stage not confirmed
This stage has not been confirmed as an actual stage, and thus it has been titled as "other" since there is no real evidence supporting it as a stage or a section of the adventure mode. - Cubeguy(talk) BOO!!! ^w^
 * Your solution is inconsistent with your argument behind it. You say that this area is not a confirmed stage, yet you classify it as an "other stage." It is either a stage or it is not. Also, we classify stages either as being in the 3DS version or the Wii U version of the game– an "other" classification in this instance would indicate that it can be something other than a 3DS or Wii U stage, which is not possible. From what I understand, this area is in the 3DS version, so we have classified it under that section. 01:35, 30 October 2013 (EDT)


 * I agree with Super Mario Bros. It wouldn't make sense to list it as "other".


 * 01:57, 30 October 2013 (EDT)

I agree that its not the best thing to list it under but there just isnt enough informationt supplied to list it as a stage. The only info on it is a couple of seconds of just mario jumping on it. - Cubeguy(talk) BOO!!! ^w^
 * But this fits the definition as a stage, regardless if you fight there in adventure mode or not. All settings you fight on are considered stages. This includes those levels in Adventure Mode in Melee, that counts as a stage. Same with the nonplayable Metal Cavern and Final Destination level in Super Smash Bros. Granted, most of these are very big stages, but we don't discriminate. 15:54, 31 October 2013 (EDT)

Alternate Costumes Return? Maybe, Maybe not....
So ran across this article and thought id bring it to light.  It has the male version of the wii fit trainer but doesn't confirm it actually being ingame. - Cubeguy(talk)
 * What's the source of the image? We need more information before we say that the male version of Wii Fit Trainer even exists in Super Smash Bros. 4. 18:59, 1 November 2013 (EDT)
 * I think I've seen it on the Smash Bros. official website.
 * Oh, I haven't visited it in such a long time, so please refresh me. Even then, we shouldn't jump to conclusions. 19:03, 1 November 2013 (EDT)
 * That was the daily SSB4 pic that Sakurai posted on Miiverse on the 31st of October, I believe.
 * Hm, if it's true, then it's more likely an alternate skin (and probably a different set of voices) than a separate character. It would be weird if there is only a female version of the Wii Fit Trainer. 19:07, 1 November 2013 (EDT)
 * This page has all of the daily pictures Sakurai posts, and was where I saw it:

Name of the Super Mario Galaxy-based stage
As Sakurai have mentioned in his Miiverse page, the official name of the stage is "Mario Galaxy". So shouldn't we change the name of the unknown stage from Super Mario Galaxy to "Mario Galaxy"? --Csrspirit (talk) 02:49, 10 December 2013 (EST)

The name
for the Galaxy stage is Mario Galaxy, according to SmashWiki.


 * Is this sourced?
 * Never mind found a source.

Release Dates
While checking the list of games, I've noticed that the release dates for Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo Wii U are set as 2014/08/27 for Japan, and 2014/08/31 for North America. Do we even have a source that proves this? 13:59, 25 December 2013 (EST)

Re: Zelda
Just confirmed, I know, and I saw an image of her with a Phantom from Phantom Hourglass. Think it's a new trophy, or somehow a sign of something else altogether? Lord Grammaticus (talk) 01:48, 26 December 2013 (EST)
 * I have a feeling it's part of her moveset, since the Phantom seen is pinkish, which is the colour of the Phantom when Toon Zelda is controlling it in Spirit Tracks. Also, I find it unusual that basically none of her pictures show off her attacks. MarioComix (talk) 01:53, 26 December 2013 (EST)
 * You say thay like we didn't wanna see Peach stealing Link. :y
 * But yeah, definitely noticed, which is why I asked. We'll probably get attack images and/or more Phantom-related details in the next few days. Though Zelda pulling a Jojo with her Phantom form would be amazing, pipe dream or not. Lord Grammaticus (talk) 02:03, 26 December 2013 (EST)

Starfy confirmed as assist trophy?
Nothing said he was confirmed as an assist trophy! Peteyking
 * Bar the source that I provided that shows a link to MiiVerse items, where he is under the sub-section of Assist Trophies. }

Yeah, but is that actually Miiverse or another source. The Smash Wiki says he's not a assist trophy. Peteyking
 * SmashWiki doesn't know everything, and the source seems pretty reliable.


 * Smash Wiki lists him in the Assist Trophy template. SeanWheeler (talk) 22:08, 29 December 2013 (EST)

Wii U Control options
The main article page states that the Wii U can use Gamepad and Pro Controllers. I'd like a source for Wii Remotes and Nunchucks not being an option.

Wario?
With the announcement of Waluigi as an Assist Trophy, is that sufficient confirmation that Wario is a playable Character again? 3D Player 2004


 * No because Nintendo themselves never said anything about it.

Alt Stages
Just a dumb question, but why does our wiki list both variations of the Punch Out!! stage as separate stages instead of a single stage? It's a safer and honestly much better assumption given previous stages with similar mechanics (see: Spear Pillar).

In a similar vein, we also have "the city from Animal Crossing: City Folk" listed as a separate stage when it's just an alternate background for the new Animal Crossing stage. Like, wut. GBAToad (talk) 06:37, 13 March 2014 (EDT)

Adventure Mode
"the game's Adventure Mode will be significantly different than the Subspace Emissary."

Has "Adventure Mode" been explicitly mentioned, or is it actually this Smash Run that has been revealed from the latest direct? I just need clarification. 19:28, 8 April 2014 (EDT)

Super Leaf
I don't remember seeing the Super Leaf anywhere in the direct, could somebody possibly get a source for this, or is it just speculation? bluereddarkorangegreenpurple
 * Nevermind, saw the source in recent changes. bluereddarkorangegreenpurple

Ridley Boss
It was implied but not confirmed that he was a boss, and considering how much Sakuria was trolling during the direct, I think Ridley should be removed from the boss list until it's flat out confirmed.

~Chaoxys

Leak of Roster
There is a leak on the internet about the Super Smash Bros. 4 roster. I am not able to interpret if it is fake or not however if it is real, I would like to upload the image with the source, or just the source and there is a link that'll take you to the picture. Could someone explain to me how to cite another source/picture or could somebody maybe look around the web to see ifthey can find the same source.

User:FireFlower

Orne
you people do know that orne is from kid icarus: uprising, dont you? http://www.kidicaruswiki.org/Orne


 * The "Unknown" refers to its role in the game. MarioComix (talk) 22:00, 4 May 2014 (EDT)

King K Rool?
I've found a scan of what would be a SSB4 game guide. I got it from IGN. [Click Here]. Is that a confirmation of King K Rool in this game?
 * It is REAL! The thread and the image were pisted in Feb 15, 2014. Long time before SSB Direct and Rosalina's miveset confirmation. Also, the moveset is 100% righy. I am sorty, but I am 80% sure King K Rool is the newcomer instead of Daisy (I hate this K. rool). Don't belive in me? take a look!
 * The moveset is only partially correct. Rosalina's confirmed moveset is:

The one on there is: Peanutjon (talk) 18:36, 22 May 2014 (EDT)
 * Standard - Luma Shot
 * Side - Star Bits
 * Up - Launch Star
 * Down - Gravitational Pull
 * Final Smash - Power Star.
 * Standard - I can't read it...
 * Side - Luma Short
 * Up - Launch Star
 * Down - Gravitational Pull
 * Final Smash - Power Star
 * Maybe is beta: Luma Shot is the onky different, exchanged by the first one. Also the first one says Snowman Luma or StarBits Luma. I also can't read that
 * I am sorry. It says SUMMON LUMA. Good eye >.<
 * Well, I guess anything's possible, but this is far from proof... So let's leave it as speculation for now :P Peanutjon (talk) 18:40, 22 May 2014 (EDT)
 * Ok. Also, the final smash in this smage says Luma Bolt, no Power Star
 * Oh, I meant that, lol. On the other hand, I can't find any proof for Star Bits being a special move, or how to trigger the others (besides Power Star), meaning only Luma Bolt is definitely wrong. But still speculation, so... Peanutjon (talk) 18:43, 22 May 2014 (EDT)
 * Agreed. In a side note, Luma Bokt could be an beta name for Power Star, cause it summons lightning strikes beside the power star, am i wrongg?
 * Aside from the moveset being different, K. Rool's art is actually fan art that has been around for a while. -- bluereddarkorangegreenpurple
 * Nope, this art is a lot different

Definetely fake, Rosalina's final smash is the Power Star, not Luma Ball.

Please make sure the information comes from a first source, not a second or third source material. - Cubeguy(talk)

Coliseum (Fire Emblem)
There's a new stage announced http://mariopartylegacy.com/2014/06/week-51-super-smash-bros-official-site-updates/ 07:49, 6 June 2014 (EDT)

Pacman?
I was looking around on a site until I found a link showing Pacman being playable for new smash bros games. Here's the link. Whoops, forgot to sign my signature User:Nintendoplayerawesome

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/06/11/e3-2014-pac-man-announced-for-new-super-smash-bros
 * I'm sorry, but there is NO footage of that whatsoever. Tell us when you have reliable proof. - 22:47, 10 June 2014 (EDT)

Well the information is new so there isn't going to be new images of him yet. The only proof I have are just these two sites seeming to confirm that he's in. The above link and this one. http://kotaku.com/pacman-is-a-character-in-smash-bros-1589074217

He could be added now or until we have more info but that's all I have. I'll try to look further into it.User:Nintendoplayerawesome
 * He was announced on Nintendo of America's Twitter. 22:59, 10 June 2014 (EDT)

Confirmation video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYQFy4flXfU. MarioComix (talk) 23:40, 10 June 2014 (EDT)

Game & Watch
SO going off the pacman reveal, (TF2 Heavy) "which is no big surprise", but does anyone know if Game & Watch is back, he does appear at the end of the trailer, but he's used as a timeline example but it might also be another reveal since he has appeared in the series since Melee? Anyone got any other info? - Cubeguy(talk)
 * It just shows that he debuted in the same year as Pac-Man. 15:04, 11 June 2014 (EDT)

Split
Shouldn't we split it into Super Smash Bros for Nintendo 3DS and Super Smash Bros for Wii U? they have diffiremt elements and names? I know it't already discussed but now that there is more info? 15:00, 11 June 2014 (EDT)
 * We should still probably wait. 15:04, 11 June 2014 (EDT)