MarioWiki:Proposals

 http://img33.picoodle.com/img/img33/9/9/17/f_propcopym_9045f2d.png A proposal section works like a discussion page: comments are brought up and replied to using indents (colons, such as : or ::::) and all edits are signed using the code. Signing with the signature code (~) is not allowed due to technical issues.

How To
 * 1) Actions that users feel are appropriate to have community approval first can be added by anyone, but they must have a strong argument.
 * 2) Users then vote and discuss on the issue during that week. The "deadline" for the proposal is one week from posting at:
 * 3) Monday to Thursday: 17:00 (5pm)
 * 4) Friday and Saturday: 20:00 (8pm)
 * 5) Sunday: 15:00 (3pm)
 * 6) Every vote should have a reason accompanying it.
 * 7) At any time a vote may be rejected if at least three active users believe the vote truly has no merit or was cast in bad faith. However, there must be strong reasons supporting the invalidation.
 * 8) " # " should be added under the last vote of each support/oppose section to show another blank line.
 * 9) Any proposal that has three votes or less at deadline will automatically be listed as "NO QUORUM." The original proposer then has the option to relist said proposal to generate more discussion.
 * 10) All proposals are archived. The original proposer must take action accordingly if the outcome of the proposal dictates it. If it requires the help of a sysop, the proposer can ask for that help.
 * 11) There are two topics that cannot be decided on through a proposal: the first is sysop promotions and demotions, which are decided by Bureaucrats. Secondly, no proposals calling for the creation of Banjo, Conker or Sonic series articles are allowed (several proposals supporting them have failed in recent history).

The times are in EDT, and are set so that the user is more likely to be online at those times (after work/school, weekend nights). If a proposal is added on Saturday night at 11:59 PM EDT, the deadline is the next Saturday night at 8:00 PM. If it is a minute later, the deadline is a day plus 15 hours (Sunday), as opposed to a day minus 4 hours.

CURRENTLY: , 27 2024 (EDT)

New Features
''None at the moment.

Removals
None at the moment.

Splits & Merges
''None at the moment.

Using Cheat Sites as References
and I recently found out that the Mario Super Sluggers page uses a cheat site as a reference. This doesn't seem very professional. Cheat sites often contain unofficial information, have no proof to verify their "facts", and commonly have fake cheats. In my opinion, we should avoid linking to cheat sites because of this. After all, this wiki is not a game guide, it is an encyclopedia. We usually write articles on games and levels in a walkthrough manner, yet it does not refer directly towards the reader. We do not place cheat codes on our articles; we do not place game hacks on are articles. Why link to a cheat page when we don't allow cheats directly on an article in the first place? So, here's my proposition: we keep writing articles in the same fashion we have been – a neutral, third person walkthrough style. We always have allowed hints in our articles as long as they are written in a walkthrough manner. So, in turn, we should stop adding links to cheat sites to our articles as references.

Proposers: and Deadline: November 20, 2008, 17:00

Support

 * 1) - Per my and Luigi001's reasons provided above.
 * 2) Kinda obvious why...
 * 3) I agree. We are and Mario Wiki a site for informantion about the Mario series and it only. We don't need codes since they have noting to do with Mario series. We are not gamespot, gamefaq or Open Code Wiki!!!
 * 4) - Per All.
 * 5) Wow, never noticed that. Off with the site! that has NOTHING to do with mario.
 * 6) - Per all. (2 people working together - "TEAM POWER"... or something)
 * 7) - Per all.
 * 8) - Per all, especially SR, 001, and PGB. We aren't a cheat website; we're a natural created Mario-info website.
 * 9) - I definitely agree, it's not professional enough to cite a cheats website. Now, it's better than some FreeWebs website, but still.

Oppose

 * 1) - I don't think we should write about cheats, but I think banning the cheat sites is going about that the wrong way. A cheat site may tell a player how to get unlimited money, but it could also offer information which we should be including (i.e. unused sprites, glitches, etc.), and not doing so because of where it came from would be a mistake. Yes, there is lots of misinformation out there, but really, any fansite could perpetrate it, not just the hackers.
 * 2) - Yeah, after the big issue I made, here I am opposing again.  I can't believe I completely forgot this issue: your definition of cheat sites isn't spelled out at all.  As we've seen below, there was much confusion over whether IGN would count as a reference.  The sensible thing to do would be to judge on a point-by-point basis whether a source was valid or not.  In the case you referred to, the obvious answer would be no, but in the cases that Walkazo presented, it'd be completely different.
 * 3) - Per all.

Comments
Now for those who I know are going to say, "We already have a rule on this," think twice. Why would that bit of info be put on the page in the first place? And did anyone try to delete it? No, no they did not. I even tried to delete it, but a day later, there it was again! So before anyone says what I know is coming, please do think again!

Since when did we write walkthrough-style articles? I thought the focus of level/world pages was general information: enemies, special items, plot line, etc.; not "Mario jumped into the third pipe to the right of the door and found a Blue Coin."-type exposition... -
 * He's means little bits of info on how to get through a level. Just look at the World articles; they say the basic way to get through a level. But still, that's not the point here. The point is whether to keep these "cheat site" resourses or not.
 * Er... You're not talking about IGN, are you? They're not only a cheat site, you know... If you're not talking about them, please tell me. :O
 * IGN, Gamespot, 1-Up, and others can still be used as citations, as long as it's pertaining to things such as reviews or official interviews. That actual cheat part is the only thing that we want to get rid of. Also, Walkazo: Luigi001 said it just as I would have. The level/world articles explained the layout of a level, what enemies are found there, etc.; but they also explain how to get through a level. That's what I meant by "walkthrough-style".
 * As the person who added the "cheat codes" in the first place and who put them back when Luigi001 removed them on the basis of looking "unprofessional," I think it's telling that I see your logic. Now, had you just posted a message on my talk page about this issue, explaining why it looked unprofessional as you did above rather than running right to the proposal page, I would have backed right down like I am now.  Not to critique your actions, but this really was something that could have been settled "out of court" so to speak, and is the sort of thing I've handled many times before with other uses.  Anyway, I'll remove my oppose vote straight away if you address it - it's simply about an oversight I felt you made in the proposal.
 * Actually, I was going to. But I got kind of nervous and went to ask Stooben on his opinion. He said he agreed with my case, and we should make a proposal so everyone is clear we don't want these sources. Who's to say that another user wouldn't add it again after you and only you backed out from it? So this proposal is completely necessary.
 * Gotcha. For future reference, you should never feel nervous to criticize my work.  There's always the possibility I'll argue back until a solution is reached (I wouldn't have in this case), but it's surprising how many people on this Wiki place the good of it above what they've already written.  In any case, I hope I'm not giving off an intimidating vibe!  I'm always for what you're striving for: writing down an unwritten rule of the Wiki, but this proposal is placing so much emphasis on the inclusion of that one blog post that I put up.  You guys are against, "cheat sites," like the one I posted, according to the proposal.  However, the "cheat site" in question was actually a blog.  Obviously, you aren't talking about "blogs" but that's what you're saying by targeting this one instance of a "cheat site," which happens to be the first we've had in ages.  By all means make a proposal about this issue, but please, for future reference, targeting one instance makes the user who's edit is being brought into question feel threatened and more importantly takes away from your aims.  Please clarify this for me: this is what I assume you want, but what isn't necessarily written. (1) Rather than "cheat sites" (which would include IGN), you want to stop people from writing about hacks, cheats, mods, etc. (2) You are not against in-game, official cheat codes that expand gameplay, but you would be against posting a code intended to let players continue their games.  (3) The issue is not with my one edit, but rather the philosophy that people could possibly derive from that edit: that cheats are acceptable to post on this site.
 * Yup. No, no, it's not you at all. I just was never the "personal debate" type! :P Well, you basically hit our achievements from this proposal right on the dot; We are against using cheat sites (or Blogs with cheats!) for resources on the Wiki. It looks very unprofessional, and well, that's not good for a Wiki attempting to be serious on a video game series. Offical cheats for the games are fine, but all others should be excluded. The game SimCity DS, not saying we have in article of it, is a prime example. The game has official "codes," if you will, to unlock landmarks. Because these were intentionally in the game, they'd be fine to mention. However, a cheat to get unlimited money or something should be excluded, as it isn't offically given in the game. And yes, as odd as it may seem, we can never know that with this one edit posted, many others will feel the right to link to IGN's cheats, or another site along those lines. As I've said, it's unprofessional looking and such. This proposal is just to see that all agree to "lay down the law" of no use of cheat site resources. Wait...did that make sense?
 * I'd like to apologize for Stumpers if he thought that we were directing this proposal directly to him; that was not the case. I've noticed this problem since I've been here, but I always tried to revert the citations. Actually, I recall using IGN cheats as a citation at one point, but I realized that it wasn't official. The proposal is only directed to banning using unofficial cheat sites for references. If say, Nintendo were to release official cheats on one of their official sites, then it would be fine to use it as a citation/reference. Sites such as Gamespot, IGN, 1-Up, and others contain cheats from unofficial sources – random members who add cheats. Half of them are hoaxes. This is the only point of the proposal.
 * Stooben and Luigi: thanks for such calm, sensible answers. Since the point has now been clarified, I'm fine with removing my oppose.
 * Well, now that you're opposing again, let me ask this: How do you know the glitches, sprites, and such are real? I mean, as Stooben has said, half of those are random people posting hoax information. If the glitches or what not were real, don't you think a more reliable source would show them? I take this example from my own life, because when I loved Super Mario Sunshine, I really wanted to find more about it. So I came across cheat/glitch sites like IGN or GameSpot, and several glitches were just bad hoaxes. I remember one saying "Use the Rocket Nozzle to blast up and off of the Blue Coin Building, and you'll find a glitched version of it in mid-air." Now, is that really believable? So maybe if you fhnd an interesting "fact" on one of these sites, check other, more official ones to see if it's true. I'm not saying cheat sites are always stuffed with fake info, just that there are more reliable sites out there.
 * Well it best to test them to see if they're real.
 * To Stumpers: Well, what we're targeting here is the banning of user-submitted cheats. By this, I mean that on sites such as IGN and Gamestop, there are many members that randomly submit cheats. Using IGN or Gamestop or whatever as a reference is fine for matters such as reviews, images, or other information. Nintendo has been known to reveal cheats, but they are rarely seen. Whenever a cheat handed out by Nintendo is seen, it will almost always say something along the lines of "submitted by Nintendo". User-submitted cheats always say "submitted by ". Grapes: That's a very good point, but sometimes cheats are very hard to pull off, people may not have the game, etc.
 * Um don't you mean glitches?
 * No, this proposal isn't targeting glitches. Glitches aren't seen very often on gaming guides, and even when they are, I don't recall ever seeing them used as a citation. 15:31, 16 November 2008 (EST)
 * Si! I know but you said cheat were hard to pull off?
 * Yes, sometimes they can be. Like in Mario Golf: Toadstool Tour, there's a cheat in Peach's Castle Grounds where you can get a hole in one on a PAR 5 course, but it's very hard to do.

List of Quotes Pages
Completely Redesigned Proposal, version 2.0:

OK, stuff that - it was merely an experiment to test your reactions, so thank you for participating :P! So, from your reactions I have a better idea for this Proposal: I'm basically just proposing that we make all the List of Quotes pages 'much better than they are - that means finishing all the "Under Construction" ones (for example, the Super Mario Galaxy quotes page is barely started...), removing a few pointless/stupid quotes (mainly on the Mario Kart series quotes, as some are just "Woo-hoo!", "Hi", "Okay", etc - you call them quotes!? The quote pages could also be improved in many other ways - yes, that sounded vague because I can't explain exactly ow, but surely some smart users will know what to do.

Proposer: Deadline: November 19, 2008, 17:00

Support
I give waffles for people who support this Proposal. (*everyone changes sides*)


 * 1) - I've made my points above.
 * 2) - I agree.  For the most part, the quotes are not very detailed.
 * 3) - There are lots of good quotes on there, but a lot of them are just quick, unidentifiable phrases, especially in the less text-heavy Mario games.

Oppose
This means you either don't like me, or have reasons which you must explain clearly why you disagree.


 * 1) - No because i dislike you, no its not true, idisagree because if wikipedia has wikiquote, why shouldnt we have the quotes?
 * 2) - As the proposal is currently written, I cannot support it: to remove Mario's quotes would remove information about The Super Mario Bros. Super Show!, Nintendo Comics System, The Great Mission to Save Princess Peach, and many other sources.  UPDATE: You updated your proposal, so now I need to update this comment.  I still cannot support your proposal because then I'd be saying, "Whichever quotes Dom says are stupid should be removed." There's no objectivity.
 * 3) Quotes are hilarious! Why get rid of them??
 * 4) - I'm really sorry about this Dom, but I have to oppose. If people actually put effort into making the articles aesthetically pleasing, they won't be so bad.
 * 5) Per all. (Mostly Per Stumpers)
 * 6) - Per myself below.
 * 7) Quotes have to belong, or else like Stumpers said, we would have to remove info about some movies and comics and whatnot. Besides, they are under construction, it will be completed soon. It won't take so long, with everyone from Mariowiki contributing to one part time by time.
 * 8) - Per Stumpers. Quotes are also essential for understanding characters themselves, and if you can't get your hands on certain sources, the MarioWiki's quotes are a Godsend, especially for fanfiction writers.
 * The quotes should stay for the reasons that the users above have mentioned.
 * 1) Per all. Like said above, Wikipedia has WikiQuote, Quotes contains sources and some quotes are so funny, you have to ROFL - litterally (Sorry if I spelted wrong). By these 3 of all those reasons, WHY REMOVING QUOTES FROM THIS WHOLE DAMN WIKI??? And you say that Quote pages are under construction, but never finish, because nobody works on it? NOT TRUE! There are MANY, MANY quotes, and how more quotes found, how more construction! So again, per ALL.
 * Per Walkazo. As long as they don't actively dtract from the value of the Wiki in any way, I see no reason to remove them. They're funny and interesting; I see no good reason to get rid of them.
 * 1) - Per all; to get rid of polls would do no one any good at all.

DOM's NOTE: '''The opposes above are referring to my previous, failure version of this Proposal, so any Opposes to this new version go below this comment. So, please don't count the numbers of Opposes above for this version.'''

Comments
I'm not sure if I got the Deadline date correct (I'm in a way-ahead time-zone in Australia)
 * The deadline is fine, but can I just clarify something? Are we talking about quote pages for characters as well?  If that's the case, I must disagree, even for Mario.  The little guy was quite the talker in the anime, American television shows, and comics all over the world.
 * Perhaps a show/hide option for long pages should be added?

Just FYI, these quote pages were the result of two proposals, the reason for these is that some quote sections are ginormous and made long pages like Mario even more tedious to load.

Um CoinCollecter can you please (and thank you) state why you're agreeing with Dom or put per Dom. ( there nothing there next to your user name. ) Um nevermind his vote has been removed.

Yeah, I'm pretty offended by this proposal. I am the only person ever to work on those pages, because everyone else was either too lazy or not interested enough to do it. I started that proposal to make the dang things. And oh, yeah, I forgot how much frickin' talking there was in Super Mario Galaxy! Oh my dear heck, Mario was so dang talkative in that game! And Bowser, whew, those four lines he said each time you battled him were so terribly full of quotable information! And what's your definition of "overly long?" Let's go and split Bowser and Mario while we're at it! And how the heck are we supposed to make it more professional? Put in images of people talking? OOOOOOOH!!! SO EXCITING! Also, shut up about the Mario Kart Quotes. If I made those pages, it was simply because I didn't want to be screamed at by, say, ForeverDaisy09, who had those proposals about Nonsensical Quotes at the time. I never saw you working on them, by the way. Maybe they would be more complete and useful if people contributed to them. Woah, I know, big, crazy idea there. Sorry. So yeah, I say no.

It shows.
 * lolwat.
 * For a minute there, I lost myself, I lost myseeeeeeelf... Yarly.

Calm down and stop saying random crap, IS - calm down. Now, that was highly exaggerated and aggressive. This goes to all Users: Please read my all-new version of this Proposal. It's completely deifferent.

Why you made a proposal to make the quote page better than before. Can users do that with out this proposal?

Dom, you might want to delete this proposal and start a fresh one, so all those oppose votes referring to your old proposal would be gone.
 * We're still going to be counting the old oppose votes: as long as a user has placed his/her vote in the oppose and it was valid BEFORE you edited your proposal, it will still be an oppose and be considered valid AFTER you edited the proposal. However, you can delete the proposal now and nothing will happen, then start afresh.  It's really to your benefit.  13:47, 14 November 2008 (EST)

I could have been more aggressive. And it wasn't random (or crap); I replied to each of your previous points. Plus, you're two calm downs cancel each other out. Haha, J/K, but still, I was offended by the offensive way you wrote it. Just a bit of defense on my part... I'm so sorry that I did, in fact, lose myself. Please forgive me.

I don't see the point of this "new" proposal: we're already striving to improve the Quotes pages (hense they're "Under Construction"), and we had a successful proposal about removing pointless things like "Woo-Hoo" and "Hi" a few months ago (I'd link to it, but computer can't handle archives, sorry). If you wanna do something constructive, suggest it as a PipeProject, not a Proposal. -

First of all If you really really want more quotes than add them yourself; there's no way to enforce people to add quotes.

Walkazo has a point.