MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/13

Mario Kart Name Changes
okay... I have noticed that all the articles on the wii karts all have their european names. Why? What's wrong with the american ones? They used to have american names! and so, I propose we change the article names...

Deadline: March 3, 2009, 17:00 Proposer:

Change them

 * 1) - per myself

Leave them

 * 1) - Per the recent proposal that just passed changing the names.  Both names are listed at the beginning of the article, and both are even included in the Mario Kart Wii vehicles template.  We are simply using the first English title in order to keep consistency and be fair to our international friends.
 * 2) - See below.
 * 3) - Per all.
 * 4) - Per the First English Artical Name. Everthing was changed to it's first English Name. So Mario Kart Wii Kart and Bike names changed to its first english name. So Nostalgia 1 was Classic Dragster.
 * 5) - I really hate that the European name proposal got through, and I wish we could reverse it, but I have to agree with Stumpers. After 6 months, I hope somebody immediately makes a proposal to reverse it.
 * 6) - Per Zafum.
 * 7) - I asked the same question myself.  Son of Suns mentioned that the reason for the European names is so that we're fair to the European gamers.  Keep note that Mario Kart Wii was released in America AFTER it was released in Europe.  If America got the game first, then the American names would be used instead.
 * 8) - Per SoS. Really. We just had this proposal not a short while ago.
 * 9) - per Zafum.
 * 10) - European names > American names at times.
 * 11) - Per all.
 * 12) - The Mario Kart Wii names we now use on Mario Wiki arn't just used in Europe, but also in Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and Japan.

Comments
In accordance with a previous proposal, for six months following a given proposal, no proposals can be made to overturn it. For example, we just had the proposal to use European names for subjects which first appeared in games that were released in Europe first. It passed, and so, for the next six months, we can't make proposals to overturn it. Therefore, this proposal is invalid, but there's no way you could have been expected to know... sorry about this.


 * (Hey Stumpers, have you found a link for that six-month rule? It would be nice if we could point to something in writing.) --


 * I can't remember such a rule, to be honest.


 * Me neither. It's a pretty good-sounding rule to me, though. Although, 6 months is quite a long time.


 * Yeah, we really need to find if such a policy has ever really been established by proposal. And I agree, six months (half a year!) is a long time regardless. --
 * We operated on it - I remember several proposals being shot down because of it, but if no one remembers it, and I can't find it, perhaps we should make a proposal about it. :P
 * If we do, however, it should be a shorter time, like 1-3 months. 6 months is too long.


 * I definitely agree with that. --
 * As do I.
 * Agreed. 3 months tops. Anyone want to make it?
 * Well it was Stumpers' idea. Maybe he wants to make it.

Arend: Those aren't the Japanese names. o_O
 * The PAL version uses more names that are identical with the Japanese names or that are closer to them. For example, the B Dasher Mk. 2 has its original name, and the kart "Hot Rally" is known as Rally Romper in the PAL version. The American version removes the namely references to the B Dasher and to the 3D Hot Rally vehicle Monster by calling them "Sprinter" and "Tiny Titan." --
 * Oicic. That's one of the things I don't like about NoA.

Personally, why the hell was it changed anyways? Doesn't that just screw things up for us Americans? :/ --
 * It was decided in a proposal some days ago. Check the archive.
 * I know that, P_Y. But where did the idea come from in the first place? --
 * In the words of proposer Son of Suns, "This should help us curb American cultural imperialism at the wiki while simultaneously fostering a spirit of internationalism." The proposal passed by one vote after a long discussion with many insults against Americans and no insults sent back (unless "go USA" said once is an insult). :P Go figure, right?  If it's any consolation, Blue, the proposal only affects a handful of titles, so it's not like it even matters that much to us in the US (lol), but, based on what was said during the proposal it apparently means a lot to people in Europe.

Change Six-Month Proposal Reversal Rule to 60 Days
I recently learned of a rule that says proposals cannot be reversed for six months. However, six months seems like a ridiculously long wait, and some of these proposals really do need to be reversed. Simply, it only makes sense to change the limit to 60 days.

Deadline: March 9, 2009, 17:00 Proposer:

Change limit

 * 1) Per above!
 * 2) An actually really great idea. 6 months seens like more than enough of a trial period. 1.5 months is a great trial period!!
 * 3) - Two months sounds good to me.  I'd be up for anything from 2-3 months, but I'm happy as long as we have some policy to go by now. My apologies for propagating something that someone somehow made policy without it really being policy or whatever. (see below) P.S. to Corka: 60 days is 2 months, not 1.5
 * 4) Per all
 * 5) - Per all
 * 6) - Per all; there is a situation that is REALLY nagging to me that I can't mention on this part of the proposal.
 * 7) - Per Ralphfan
 * 8) - Per Stumps
 * 9) - Per all.
 * 10) - Per all.
 * 11) - Per all. Generally after 6 months the proposals are either forgotten or so deeply entrenched in the way things are run that people just accept them; in the dynamic reality of an Internet community, being stagnant does not fly.
 * 12) - Per all.
 * 13) - I completely agree! 6 months is such a long time, and there are certain proposals which really need to be reversed faster than that.
 * 14) - Change it. 6 months is unnecessarily long. 60 days is good, but I think 30 days would be even better. One month is more than enough time for people to make up their minds about almost any change.
 * 15) I'm in! I just read 6 months and jumped on the bandwagon! NEEDS CHANGING!
 * 16) Per all
 * 17) - Per The Great Gonzales.
 * 18) - 6 months is ridiculously long, but 60 days is approximately two months, which is still an unnecessary amount of time. 30 days (approximately one month) is a neat idea. Per The Great Gonzales.

Comments
Look at the proposal above!
 * There's no actual rule about the time limit to revert a proposal, the sixth month thing is completely made up. So yeah, this proposal should be about setting the rule. --Blitzwing 12:04, 2 March 2009 (EST)


 * Yeah, so if this proposal does not pass, there would be no rule about reverting proposals (as opposed to us "leaving as is" a six month rule, which apparently we never had). --
 * Yeah. And you should put the amount of months, not days. (60 days=2 months)
 * Yup, I was just parroting what I was told by people who were sysops and bureaucrats way before I was, so really there's no weight to the six month rule... I'd like to be able to assume that everything told to me is true, but alas. :3 Blitz, were you a sysop when that idea came about?  You'd probably know more about how the notion came about and why it was used to block some proposals even when it wasn't policy than I would.
 * There was never any real idea of a "time limit" for reverting proposals. If someone saw a proposal didn't quite work out, they would just make another proposition and that's it. --Blitzwing 16:06, 3 March 2009 (EST)
 * Except for the two or so proposals about Banjo and Conker articles that were shot down based on the fact that they were released so shortly after each other. :P Whatever - doesn't matter now.
 * Toadette: "60 days" is far more accurate because months are different amounts of days and if we say "two months from July 22*" that can be interpreted in a few different ways, such as two 30-day periods, two month name-changes, etc. So I'd go for days. *Totally random.

Okay, we'll do it... and then change it back 60 days later! :D

Create a Dispute Resolution Committee
So, I've been browsing Wookieepedia and have noticed they have a sysop's noticeboard. I think we should have something like this to alert sysops of important things and solve disputes between users. We would call this the "Dispute Resolution Committee".

Proposer: Deadline: March 16, 2009 17:00

Oppose

 * 1) - A public record of issues may do more harm than good. Sysops can already discuss things on their forum board.
 * 2) Per YY.
 * 3) - Per YY.
 * 4) - YellowYoshi398 does have a point. So per YY.
 * 5) - Per YY.
 * 6) per YY

Comments
I think we need this so regular users may alert sysops, since regular users do not have access to the sysop boards.
 * I used to and still do use the main talk page when the matter is public, and before I was buro or sysop and I wanted to keep something quiet (like an interuser dispute) I just dropped a note on a sysop's page. If this feature was updated and I had something I didn't want to get full blown I'd probably just use the sysop's talk page anyway... What I want to know is, how would it be different from the main page?  We still have a smallish Wiki so I think we might be able to make do with that. :)

Change Log-In
1 hour ago I just had a horrible experience.My computer had somehow forgot my password for this Wiki,thus I took 1 hour trying to remember it,as I had lost the piece of paper the password was written on.So to stop this experience happening to anyone else,we could maybe have two options,like a question? Instead of a password? Are we allowed this? Do you want it? I'll be waiting!

Proposer: Deadline: March 16, 2009, 17:00

Something Different!

 * 1) Huzzah! per above.
 * 2) - SOunds good, maybe adding a security question
 * 3) - I'm Yoshikart, and I've got a severe problem, I entered my password, and IT WOULDN'T LOG ME IN. So I had to resort to my backup account.

Leave as is!

 * 1)  - Um... You guys do realise this will lead to sockpupeting and people being able to log in as other users. So this is one heck of a bad idea.
 * 2) - Umm, no. You can store your passwords in like a secret text document, but losing your password would be kinda silly amirite? If you choose a password that you cant remember well, then choose a password thats both secure and you can remember it from the top of your head. Mistakes happen, I know. I don't think there's a MediaWiki extension for a second log-in thingy.
 * 3) - If someone forgets their password, it's their fault and their problem. If you know you have memory issues (AMNESIA for example...), then save the password in a text document somewhere on your computer. Users must take responsibility for their own account issues.
 * 4) - Per all.
 * 5) - It's better to keep the passwords rather than just add questions, because, as Nerdy Guy said above, this would lead other users into logging onto accounts that don't belong to them, and therefore hacking in to them. Per all.
 * 6) - Per all,We rather have an user who have to make ten accounts because the user forgot the password for the other nine,other then to block an user for what someone else did.
 * 7) - Per all. Even if it is possible to implement something like this, it's too much trouble just to accomodate a few people who can't remember a password. To avoid forgetting, simply choose something easy to remember, and if necessary, store it in multiple places on and off the computer; logging-in shouldn't be a challenge.
 * 8) - Per all.

Comments
Is the password thing something all Wikis HAVE to do? if it is,ignore this.

Hmmm... I'm not entirely sure I understand the proposal. Do you mean two accounts? That's what I think you are saying.


 * No, it means two ways to log in
 * You're going to have to specify that second way. You mentioned security questions as an idea in the proposal, but right now we're just voting for "something" to happen.  You'll need to reword it, otherwise we're voting on whether or not to give you a blank slate to work with as far as log ins are concerned.  22:44, 9 March 2009 (EDT)

Ok,I added an example.This IS my first proposal.
 * Much better - and I'm sorry if I came off strict. :)

Woo-hoo! I'm logged in correctly now!

Courses based on Courses
Hey everyone it's User:MC Hammer Bro. again. This time I've noticed things like Super Smash Bros. stages and Mario Kart courses that share names with courses in games that they are based off of. Mainly I noticed how Article: Tick Tock Clock, course 14 in Super Mario 64 is seperate from Tick Tock Clock (course) but...Rainbow Ride from Super Mario 64 and Rainbow ride (Rainbow cruise) stage from Super Smash Bros. Melee are in the same articel. So my question is show the articles be merged or seperated?

Proposer: Deadline: March 26, 2009, 17:00

Split 'em up

 * 1) Courses of the same name from different games should stay split because, well, they have their own qualities.Besides, SSB stages are usually a "very rough" version of the real stage.
 * 2) - I think it would be crazy to merge these together, because they really are two different things. I mean, wouldn't it be confusing if you clicked rainbow ride on a template trying to get to the ssbm level, but went to the sm64 world instead? Of course you would have it on that page, but not as the main thing, but as a side subject. I say we Split 'em up.

Merge 'em together

 * 1) - I say merge, beacuse they're supposed to be the same place
 * 2) - I would merge article titles that have the same name.  As we now seperate history sections by appearances, articles could have section titles for each game the topic appears in.  For example, Luigi's Mansion could have a section under the title "Luigi's Mansion," then a section titled "Mario Kart series" with the Luigi's Mansion from Mario Kart, which would then state the differences between the original and the MK versions.  Finally, the article could have a "Mario Tennis" section for the mansion's appearance in Mario Power Tennis.
 * 3) - Per SoS.
 * 4) - Per SoS.
 * 5) - Per SoS.
 * 6) - Per SoS.
 * 7) - Per Sos. It's a great idea and I guess there are more articles with this delemas than I though.
 * 8) .-i think merge for the same reasons as SoS but also some articles are very small and even if we merge all of their realated articles it still wont be nealy as song as say... mario's article so yes MERGE!! DEFINATELY MEEEEERRGE!!!
 * 9) - Per SoS.
 * 10) - Per SoS.
 * 11) - I think that we should merge all articles on the same topic. However, we should not go as far as merging Rainbow Ride with Rainbow Road, only articles on things with little to no notable differences, like the Mario Circuits.
 * 12) - Per Son of Suns.
 * 13) - i like sos's idea. per above.
 * 14) - Per SoS.

Comments
Zafum: It will take you to both things, so i dont see whats wrong


 * Also, links can be directed to sections, instead of the top of the article. So say you specifically want to link to the Luigi's Mansion in Super Smash Bros. Brawl.  You simply turn the link into Luigi's Mansion and you will go straight to the Smash Bros. info, passing by the other sections. --

Idk, it just seems......as a "bad example" to new users.Who knows, probanly they'll say, "OMG y don't they put seperate articles 4 it!ZOMG they suck!!!lol.I'm leaving." or something like that.
 * Well that would be their loss, now wouldn't it? You can't always get what you want, and if you storm off just because you disagree with some policy somewhere then you're gonna be unhappy for a very long time; it's better to just be flexible. -

Beta Enemies
I dont know where to put this but here goes.

I propose we create a page for all beta enemies, including stats, behavior, psychopath thoughts etc. and redirect drill bit (the only beta enemy with a page bcause it was accidentaly left in a cutscene (smithy! reember your blood pressure!)) to this page we could add a link 2 drill bit on the page AND if possible, the action replay codes used to access some of these beta enemies. Im sure interested in anything beta. Rite nao, the info is scattered about the beta elements page and pages of similar enemies.

Proposer: Deadline: 17:00 Monday, March 31, 2009

Make Beta Enemy Page

 * 1) YourBuddyBill- Ill take out the part about drill bit. we could just add alink to the page to drill bit
 * 2) - per ybb
 * 3) - This can make extra pages.Extra Pages = better example for guests = MOAR users = better articles.
 * 4) - Great idea, but we better put the beta enemies to the Beta Element page. Also, I've recently seen the name of the beta Blooper enemy of Mario and Luigi: Partners in Time on TMK.
 * 5) - Good idea. But it would be better to take out the part about the action replay codes. I have never seen codes on this wiki so it would be best to leave it that way.

Do Not Make Beta Enemy Page

 * 1) - I'd prefer to see Beta Elements sorted by game. To me, it seems a largely arbitrary distinction to separate beta enemies from the rest of the main beta article. Especially so when considering that all the other information on that page would remain as it is. A subsection under the relevant game's section of the page would work equally well.
 * 2) - Per Twentytwofiftyseven. Keeping all the beta information pertaining to each game together in one place is the most effective way at presenting the info to the readers. Also, if the enemies get their own seperate page, why not beta items, beta characters and beta locations? Regardless of how much info there is about them, enemies are no more important than anything else on that beta elements page, so separating them and nothing else seems wrong.
 * 3) Per all Lu-igi board 15:22, 28 March 2009 (EDT)

Comments
Fixed. ;) And I would like to know all the stuff about them too, but separate pages for each enemy is rather tedious, in my opinion. Maybe not, but I would like it if we could know more about them.

Did Son of Suns vote in the wrong place? He said he wanted to keep separate pages; yet voted in do not make separate pages. Or am I reading it wrong? --


 * Oh, never mind, I read it twice, and I understand now. =D


 * The proposal states we should create one page for all enemies. Bloc Partier labeled the sections incorrectly.  (Not his fault, original proposer did not format anything right.)  I fixed it--

sorry, the directions are a bit complicated 4 me


 * If you remove the Drill Bit part of proposal, leaving it as its own page and linking to it, I will remove my oppose. --

I do think that YBB has a point, though, since it does have to do with the beta enemy being notable or not. Plus, a list is always good as an easy directory for articles. Then again, a category would do that job also.

thing is, not every one HAS an article. theyre just meshed together on the beta elements page with tidbits on other pages

Yoshario, I believe YBB is proposing to create ONE page to cover all Beta enemies, which right now have content in different places, not their own articles (nor is YBB proposing to give them each articles). Drill Bit is unique for being an enemy that appeared in the game but is also a beta enemy, as it was given stats but never used in battle. Hope that clears things up. --

So its not just a list, but an article that has the information on Beta Enemies instead of separate articles? I think that would be good. But then, would we still cover unused Drill Bit information in that article? --
 * OOps, I did read it wrong. The poor grammar threw me off. :P But yeah, one page sounds great.


 * To Yoshario - yep, one Beta Enemies page (there are no separate articles). Drill Bit would probably have a section with a "main article" link to Drill Bit.  The Drill Bit article should cover everything, while the Drill Bit entry in a proposed Beta Enemies page would give a summary of the subject Drill Bit as related to the article subject - Beta Enemies. --

Alright, I like that idea, better remove my oppose.

Instead of creating another page, how about having a sub section in the Beta Elements page? They would classify in that category, but would things get a little too complicated?


 * Yes, that looks better

Arend: Are you sure you voted under the right header? Supporting means the enemies will get a page separate from the Beta Elements, but it sounds like you want them as part of the main Elements page only (which is the current policy, as far as I know)... -


 * To Arend (and Walkazo as well): There is no policy (I believe) regarding how the Beta Elements page should be organized. Currently it lacks a Beta Enemies section, but that does not mean it can't have one.  This proposal is specifically about creating a separate article about Beta Enemies.  If that's what you want Arend, that's fine, but I think several of us are confused by your vote, which would suggest you don't want this page to be created. --


 * Oh, I thought it was proposed on articles about beta enemies. Ah, well, still great idea. But how is is about Categories?
 * It's not really about categories at all (as far as my understanding goes). Since the beta elemets page is currently listing all the beta stuff by game, I'd assume that's the current "policy". None of the specific types of beta elements have their own sections - they're all spread out amongst their parent games (SMB3 enemies under the SMB3 header, etc.). My argument is that creating a beta elements page would make our coverage inconsistant, as none of the other types of beta elements are organized like that; change them all or change none. -
 * I got it, but why some people are saying that YBB says we sort the beta elements page on ememies. After reading SoS's comment, I looked at the whole proposal, and I understood that the proposal is about just adding a page of the beta enemies. This is a great idea, but still, the categories and so. For that Blooper enemy of PiT, we need to add a category of Bloopers; however, Drill Bit is also a beta foe, which needs a different category than Bloopers. That would be a gigantic problem. Plus, that the name of the article is Beta Enemies. Shouldn't new users be confused about that?

I have AR codes for a beta Red Koopa in Sm64ds!Not to mention beta hat boxes.Too bad my AR broke....

Worlds and levels
YBB again, Im noticing that some games have all of the levels of a world on the world's page, like 7-1, 7-2, 7-3, and 7-4 are all on the same page as World 7, but with other games, worlds just have links to level pages, like Chocolate Island and Chocolate Secret. Should we merge them all together, or split them apart? Note that this is relevant to pipeprojects.

Proposer: Deadline: April 2, 2009, 17:00

Merge

 * 1) - Yes, one big stub is no better than lots of little stubs, but this isn't about stubs - it's about organization: the real question is whether the same amount of info should be covered by tens of big articles or hundreds of smaller ones. Merging the levels would not cut down on the amount of information that could be included, it just rearranges it. Whether or not an aspect of a game has its own article shouldn't matter to how important it is in the grand scheme of things; not every named thing needs its own article to tell the readers what they need to know. Bloc Partier's Mt. Teapot is a good example of a world article that negates the need for individual level articles because it essentially has all the important information right there (though I'll admit that "importance" is in the eyes of the beholder). Other world articles need work, such as Desert Land, which has around the same amount of info as all of Chocolate Island's subsidiary stubs put together. However, expanding the former as a whole and expanding the latter stub-by-stub would essentially be the same thing, with only the organization differing (as is the inconsistent case now).
 * 2) - Per Walkazo. It is much easier to see all the information on one page than splitting it and needing to click back and forth between pages just to view all the levels and whatnot.
 * 3) - Per Walkazo and Bloc Partier. Plus, one article per world per game is more organized than one article per level.
 * 4) - Per Walkazo. It makes much more sense to have one umbrella world article than a ton of little one-level articles floating around.
 * 5) - I think that we should. It is more organized and efficient to use when some are already meged and some are not.
 * 6) - Per all.
 * 7) - Per all.

Split

 * 1) - Levels are independently named, even if only by number.  Each level contains a WEALTH of information - to cut down on stubs people should actually expand these level articles instead of creating one-sentence articles for the sake of creating one-sentence articles.  Merging the levels doesn't solve the stub problem, as the world article would still lack A LOT of information and would just be a stub of a larger size.  Level articles can then be linked by a profile template similar to the ones already in use by Donkey Kong Country and Yoshi's Island level articles in order to organize the different level articles.
 * 2) Sos has a good point.
 * 3) - Per SoS.
 * Per SoS. We can't just merge all levels into their world articles.
 * 1) Per all Lu-igi board 15:21, 28 March 2009 (EDT)
 * 2) Per SoS.

Comments
Ugh, this would destroy all my hard work to make Mt. Teapot Featured. But unfortunately it's a good idea. Blech. I'm not voting.

I think it is wrong thinking of merging or splitting everything. Like any other section in every page, if a section about a zone is too large, it'll need an article, if it fits well in the page of the world it'll remain a section. It is fool to have lots of stub pages just because we decided to split them all, or to have incredibly large articles just because we decided to merge. I think the only point is how long should a zone section be to become an article?
 * Well, we do need standards...
 * Kombatgod: I don't agree with all of your points, but I definitely do agree that this should be decided on case-by-case basis. While on the one hand Super Mario Land levels could be perfectly placed in world articles (well, except someone would really expand them), on the other hand it makes no sense to me to merge Super Mario World levels into world articles.
 * I definitely agree with Time Q. SMW levels' articles are good enough to stay the way they are. But there are other levels that don't have enough information to have their own articles.


 * Any level has as much or more information than any SMW level. The problem is someone actually has to write down the information and expand the level's article content on the wiki. --

Change Calendar to Featured Images on Main Page
Of all the sections on the main page, I find the Calendar to be the least useful, so I am proposing to replace it with a Featured Image section. The Featured Image would highlight high quality, interesting, witty, provocative, rare, and important images that can be found in articles on the Mario Wiki. The Featured Image would be selected by a vote just like the Featured Poll. The image would be updated every week and would be selected by the wiki's users. On a new Featured Image Selection page, users could nominate an image (probably just linking to the page instead of putting the image on the selection page), give some reasons for the nomination if they want to (i.e., let us know what makes this image so special) and users can then Support or Oppose. The Featured Image of the week will be decided by subtracting the number of opposes from the number of supports - the image with the most "points" will be featured. Any image with negative points (that is a majority of opposes) after a week will be removed from the selection process. The only condition for images that can be nominated is that they must be in an actual mainspace article in the wiki. No personal images or others; only images that can actually be found in the wiki's articles will be allowed.

Proposer: Deadline: April 9, 2009, 17:00

Change to Featured Images

 * 1) - Per my reasons above.
 * 2) - Nobody maintains the calender. In the six months that it's been running, it has been on time twice. It was 28 hours late this month, which really is plenty of time to make the wiki look silly and unprofessional. A featured image would, I believe, be more popular and better maintained.
 * 3) - Per SoS and 2257. I've always wondered what the point of the calendar is. Does anybody actually look at it and go, "ZOMG, game X was released Y years ago, let's celebrate this day!"? The Featured Image thing, on the contrary, seems like a good idea to implement. It could actually make the main page look better, and that's what the page's point is, isn't it?
 * 4) - Featured images sounds more interesting than a calender im my opinion.
 * 5) - Per all. I hope the Featured Image's support and oppose system works better than the Poll Selection one. And the Calendar isn't useful in my opinion. If someone wants to know when a game was released, he/she just has to see the game's article.
 * 6) - Per all.
 * 7) - Though it is interesting to see what games came out around the time, the calendar is not that interesting and is never prepared on time. Chop it. Also, FI's sound cool.
 * 8) - Featured image: good idea. Calender: bad idea. By that comparison, I mean per all.
 * 9) - Per all.
 * 10) -- Per all. I never found the calendar to be a really great feature anyway. There are tons of high-quality images on this site that would be great to see on the Main Page.
 * 11) Per all.
 * 12) - I think having a featured image is a great idea; I just hope that it's much much better than the calender thingy.
 * 13) I think the Calendar is useless because no one cares about old release dates unless the game is getting re-released. This is a great idea that would coexist with the Featured Articles!! I think everyone should get together and go through the Main Page to get rid of sections we dislike and consider a waste of space. SoS got a Head Start!!
 * 14) - Per All! What's it for anyway?
 * 15) - Agree in response for all.
 * 16) Per all, but I agree with comments below to put the calendar into The 'Shroom
 * 17) User:Supermario6449I don't care for a calander.There is no point "celebrating" release dates.I WANT PICTURES!
 * 18) Per all.

Keep Calendar

 * 1) We can have both, i find the calendar useful and informative. Also, there may be many problems for choosing a FI, and there may not be many images deserving that title
 * 2) I agree with Tucayo

Comments
Why don't do BOTH? there's enough space when you see it on my webbrowser.


 * Because the calendar is not very attractive to being with. At least in my opinion. --
 * I think we can do both! I think the calendar is pretty handy, but the Featured Images are great, too!
 * The Calendar doesn't work as part of the main page, but perhaps it could still be used as part of The 'Shroom. If someone is put in charge of the Calendar as if it were a 'Shroom section, hopefully that would mean it won't be neglected so much. -


 * That's a good idea. --
 * Thanks! -
 * As Sub-Director, I fully support that idea. --

While we're on the subject of the main page, should we consider removing the QOTD? It's not even a QOTD, just a random quote generated each time. We could also do something like change the coding and add an actual quote, rather than DPL.
 * NO! I think it's fun. But yeah, we can better rename it. Maybe just: The Random Chosen Quote?
 * More like "The Quote Chosen By A Random Generator That No One Actually Randomly Picks." >_> But yeah, I've said chop off the QOTD for a while now.
 * I made a version of the QOTD that actually picks a quote based on the date, here. What's there is unfinished, though. Eventually, llquote would be integrated into the main deal, but I don't want to do that until I know people are interested. Also, I'm not guaranteeing it won't suddenly start splitting atoms. Use at your own risk.
 * Well, I just merged it. Assuming it works correctly, which I can't test, the only possible alteration at this point would be to add support for leap days. I'm not doing that. After doing this, I can understand why Wayoshi thought would be better. >_>

I do the Calendar of Events for the Shroom, which was released last month. I could edit it, because I'd love to bring some peace to editing the Main Page!! Check out my Proposal below!!


 * How many people even visit the Main Page multiple times? (Personally, I'm on it once a month.) QOTD may not be the most accurate title, but it sounds better than "Random Quote" (or something like that), since "random" sounds sorta unprofessional / cheap / gimmicky / whatever. In my Grade 6 class we had Quotes of the Day which spanned entire weeks, it's really no big deal. -

Corka Cola: Perhaps for this month's issue you can add some info from the Main Page's calendar

Let Members Go Through Main Page To Eliminate Unwanted Sections
The proposal above by got me thinking, how many sections are unwanted or useless to the Main Page? All Members of any rank will be worth 1 Point for every positive vote, -1 for negative vote. I'll change it if complained. If approved, I'll see if we can get individual pages for voting for each section that will last 1 week. Most likely, it'll go in order based on their location on the Main Page. Anytime during the week after approval, anyone may voice new Section Ideas on this Proposals page. Let's begin voting and see change!!

Proposer: Deadline: April 12, 2009, 15:00

Let Voting Take Place

 * 1) - Since I was the Creator of this proposal, per above.

Leave As Is

 * 1) - I don't think we need to go through a big voting fiasco to change the main page.  We should just stick to the normal channels - main page talk page discussions and proposals.
 * 2) - Per SoS.
 * 3) - Per SoS.
 * 4) -- Per SoS and my comment below.
 * 5) - Per all.
 * 6) Per all, I also have to mention that I strongly agree with SoS
 * 7) I agree with all of you
 * 8) - Per SoS

Comments
I am seeing disorganizatiopn in editing the Main Page, disgust in Members based on what it contains. Let's just see what the people want.
 * Lol, Patrollers are less important than Sysops. You do realize this, yes?
 * More importantly, why should being a sysop/patroller/whatever make someone's opinion more important than anyone else's?
 * I agree. All members here are equal. Just because certain members have more power than others doesn't make them better, more valuable, or more important; it makes them more experienced. --
 * Also, lots of members are just as (if not more) active as many of the Admins, so weighting votes differently based on rank would be even more unfair for them. -
 * Changed it so everyone is equal. Sorry, just didn't understand!!

Change 60-Day Rule to One Month
I think that the 60-day minumum for waiting to overturn proposals is a bit of a long to to wait. What if a proposal is passed and it lowers the quality of the wiki extremely? Or what if a majority of people who voted in favor of the original proposal want to overturn it? I believe that one month is neither too short nor too long.


 * By "month" I mean 4 weeks, or 28 days. Thank you Ralphfan for helping me decide.

Proposer: Deadline: April 13, 2009, 17:00

Change to One Month

 * 1) - Per my reasons above.
 * 2) - Per Super Mario Bros.
 * 3) per all
 * 4) - per all. I really want to go back on a certain proposal, but it hasn't been 60 days yet...
 * 5) - Per Walkazo.
 * 6) - Good point, but make it 28 days (4 weeks) because some months are longer than others.

Keep at 60 Days

 * 1) - The last proposal wasnt more than 60 days ago, so it cant be reversed

Comments
This is not overturning the decision made about a month ago to make a rule to make the limit 60 days. The original intent of that proposal was to change the limit from 6 months to 60 days. This is only changing the limit, and not making it 6 months again. - Previously unsigned comment signed by

I'm not try to be smart or anything,but It haven't been 60 days since the "60 day proposal".Rules are Rules


 * Super Mario Bros. is actually correct. This proposal would not overturn the previous proposal, and thus it should be allowed.  The previous (unstated) rule was actually any proposal could immediately be overturned at any time.  The current rule is to wait sixty days to overturn or reverse a decision.  This proposal would clearly not reverse the decision of the original proposal back to zero waiting time, so it is within the rules. --
 * Why not removing it directly, as if the problem is solved?

Thank you SoS.


 * Not saying that you're wrong, but couldn't one apply that logic in a way that circumvents the "60 day" rule totally? Plus, didn't this proposal get shot down when it could have passed by similar logic? (Actually, I'm glad it did, but I want to be fair.)


 * And on the subject of the proposal I linked, the proposal that it would have half-overturned was quite the hotly contested issue, yes? It just barely passed, and if it came up again, it might be overturned. Seeing as it affected quite a few articles, this would necessitate a lot of reversions. And then what would happen if it came up again in 30 more days?


 * I'm not sure what to do about that, so I thought I'd bring it up. Who knows, maybe nobody will care enough to keep proposing it. But it will be allowed for reconsideration if this passes. (Or five days after it fails.)


 * Yeah, I might have drifted from the topic a bit. Sorry.


 * The Mario Kart Name proposal would have made the naming standard inconsistant, so it already had a strike against it; the 60 day rule was just the final blow. Also, you're forgetting that many of us would be perfectly happy to see that First Official Title proposal revoked. Many more people have come forward and expressed their displeasure with the changes since it passed, so perhaps it would be useful to take another look at the issue now that we've seen it in use - that's one of the points of this "X day" rule, isn't it? But yeah, this is getting a little off topic. -


 * "Also, you're forgetting that many of us would be perfectly happy to see that First Official Title proposal revoked." That was actually my point. It was almost equally divided between people who were for it and people who were against it. If it would come up again in the future, then it could swing back and forth, necessitating many reversions and generally wasting time.


 * Oh, I see now. I've actually been mulling that over too: it seems ridiculous that a change that big passed by a single vote. I've been meaning to propose a new rule saying that if a proposal has more than 10 votes, it can only pass or fail by some sort of margin (maybe by 3 or 5 votes) so that only clear majorities result in changes. If a proposal reaches the deadline and it's a close race (i.e. 13 vs. 14) then the proposal would be extended a few more days (again, 3 might be a good number). That way, we won't have to worry about flip-flopping on issues every month; it also deals with ties, which we don't have any official stance on at the moment. -

Yep, the Mario Kart naming proposal was shot down because it did not offer an alternative policy to the previous proposal. The previous was not simply about changing the name of articles, but established a policy about how all current and future articles should be named. As there was no rule before (I think...I'm not sure), someone could propose a policy to replace it at anytime, but it would need to be a clear system or policy, not simply change article title X to Y (i.e., overturn the previous decision for a small class of articles). A new policy would not overturn the previous proposal and can be issued if need be - to overturn it would mean a proposal calling for the elimination of standard naming conventions (which the Mario Kart proposal was essentially calling for by upsetting the standard). --

Tucayo, this is. I am letting your vote count. I am sorry I kept on pestering you to take it down. I decided to let your vote count because I saw some of your votes on other proposals and I think you have a good voting record, and I feel like a jerk trying to insist to take your vote away. Besides, you are the only one at this point that opposes my proposal, so I guess it would be ok to let your vote count. Also, nobody besides myself has really made this thing a big ordeal, so I am retracting my argument. Once again, I am sorry for making a huge thing out of something little.

Clear Majority Rule
I was looking at the comments of my last proposal and noticed that the proposal itself is a bit controversial. That is why I, Super Mario Bros. am organizing this proposal, which was originally voiced by Walkazo. If it were to pass, this proposal would create a rule that in order to pass or fail, the "winning side" of a proposal (with 10 votes or over) needs to beat the "losing side" of the same proposal by at least 3 votes in order to pass or fail. If it wins or fails with 2 votes or less or ends in a tie, then the deadline will be extended for another week.

Proposers: and Deadline: April 14, 2009, 17:00

Support

 * 1) Per Walkazo's reasons above
 * 2) Per Super Mario Bros.
 * 3) Per Super Mario Bros.
 * 4) - Per my reasons that have been paraphrased above (see below for original version).
 * 5) per all
 * 6) - Per Walkazo. I find the current rule to be rather redundant, anyway.
 * 7) - This proposal is just great! I think we should do the same with the Poll Selection page.
 * 8) - Per all. If only this rule could have existed 2 months ago...
 * 9) - Sounds great, I find it to be cool because some users miss the chance of voting sometimes (reasons: school,problems with internet, lack of time, et cetera) and with the proposal deadline extended, they would have a chance to vote. Plus this would make more users vote when the proposal is extended and we can gather different opinions.
 * 10) - Per all.
 * 11) - Good point; we'll get more opinions in that case.
 * 12) - Per All
 * Per Walkazo. Sometimes which side wins is just a matter of luck (e.g. if it's 13-12). Requiring a greater difference seems reasonable.
 * 1) - Per all, but I think we should include a little addendum (see my comment below).

Comments
What happens if it is still tied or there is no clear majority after another week? --
 * SoS, to answer your question, I don't know. I'm split between letting it pass/fail or marking it as No Conclusion. Which do you think I should do? Then I guess the proposal will have to wait another month (or sixty days if my proposal doesn't pass).

"It seems ridiculous that a change that big passed by a single vote. I've been meaning to propose a new rule saying that if a proposal has more than 10 votes, it can only pass or fail by some sort of margin (maybe by 3 or 5 votes) so that only clear majorities result in changes. If a proposal reaches the deadline and it's a close race (i.e. 13 vs. 14) then the proposal would be extended a few more days (again, 3 might be a good number). That way, we won't have to worry about flip-flopping on issues every month; it also deals with ties, which we don't have any official stance on at the moment." - If you're gonna use my idea, Super Mario Bros., at least have the decency to give me credit, because otherwise it's intellectual theft and if you do it in real life you can get in serious trouble (for example, if you're caught plagiarizing in University you get expelled). -
 * Yes Walkazo, I was actually going to credit you, it's just that I was busy since I have made the proposal, so I am sorry for not doing it sooner. I am not sure if you are interested to hear why, but today was my parent's anniversary and they went out to eat, and I was not at the computer to thank you. But I will credit you in the main part of the proposal. Once again, I'm sorry for forgetting. Plus, I hope it is ok if I put you as one of the proposers.
 * Much better, thank you. -

Son of Suns: The official stance would be to extend the deadline by another week, but the practical thing to do would be that the proposer remove the proposal and rework it, taking into consideration all the arguments for and against it so that they could find a way to appease more Users and reach a clear majority next time (which, as the proposal was removed and not passed or failed, could come at any time without a 30/60 day buffer period). I've found turning all the arguments for and against the proposal into a chart and matching points and counter-points/rebuttals makes it easier to get a clearer idea of which of those arguments are strong and which are weak, and how to address the entire thing more effectively. I know I don't need to tell you how to reason, SoS, but I just thought I'd put my strategy out there anyway. -


 * Technically, "majority" is anything above 50% of the vote. Just throwin' that out there...
 * Yep, that's why we're asking for a "clear" majority. Actually, while we're on the subject of terminology, if you take abstaining Users (who have commented on the proposal but did not vote) into account, it's also possible to end with a "minority" vote. The only Wiki-based example I know of is the First English Name Proposal: the final tally was 14-13, with 2 abstainers, meaning the proposal only passed with 48% support; it beat the 45% opposition, but was not, in fact, a "majority". -

Just to be clear, does it need ten votes total, or ten votes for just one side?
 * Ten total. If the proposal passes, I'll make sure the new rule is written clearly so there won't be any question about what it means. -
 * I'm actually somewhat worried about that... Ten users do often not vote on any given proposal. For example, this one. :O
 * Yeah, but this rule concerns the big proposals more. If there's gonna be a big policy change, people get involved, whereas smaller issues like this aren't consequential to most Users. I've found that these smaller proposals generally accumulate obvious majorities anyway, and if it's close, last minute voters who only sorta cared often flock in and tip the balances rather than risk the possibility of it falling the other way. I also suggested the 10 votes minimum thing because you don't need 3 votes to be a clear majority when the numbers are small: for example, even though a 4-2 tally only differs by 2 votes, at 67% to 33%, it's still clear which side has the community backing. I just think pestering the little decisions with the Clear Majority Rule would be more trouble than it's worth. -

I like the idea, but I see a potential failing: if the proposal is consistently supported by only a one or two vote margin, then it will be hopelessly deadlocked, which is pretty much the same as failing. But that doesn't make sense, because it did get a favorable majority. In this situation, perhaps we could (and I know that this won't always be possible) try to reach some sort of compromise on the issue to circumvent potential logjams. --
 * If an issue is deadlocked, wouldn't it be better to see it rethought than to slip by because of a single vote? If the community is so divided on an issue, there is no right answer. The proposer can take down the proposal and retool it to work for more people, so it'd be more like a rough draft than a failure; the buffer zone is itself a compromise. -

Merge or Delete Demo Articles
I am proposing that we delete or merge articles like The Legend of Zelda: Orcarina of Time. I think that if we keep this article as it is, there will be a whole bunch of Kirby, Zelda, and Metroid game articles. Therefore I am proposing to either merge or delete demo articles.

Proposer: Deadline: April 17, 2009, 20:00

Merge them into one Article

 * 1) - Most of the articles are stubs. This will use up less space here on the wiki.
 * 2) - Merge them in Masterpieces will be much better, they havent got images or category, a total stub
 * 3) - Per. An all-pupose masterpieces article seems about right.
 * 4) - Per all
 * 5) - Per above & Blitz

Keep as it is

 * 1)  I am not sure what you are talking about. If you would go to my talk page and supply me with some examples of these demo articles, then I will definitely reconsider my vote. I personally don't think that pages should be deleted unless they do not supply efficient information and nobody on the wiki is doing a thing about it.

Delete

 * 1) First of all, there never were any metroid or zelda or kirby articles on this site. Second of all, If those pages exist, those pages would be against the rules anyway.
 * 2)  Per Zafum.

Comments
Zafum: Thats why they should be merged in 1 article, because they appear in SSBB, so theyre part of the Marioverse, the articles dont give complete info as if it were a Mario game, its just saying what appears in the demo, have you seen them?

"...they appear in SSBB, so theyre part of the Marioverse..." Please explain this assertion.
 * As we have articles for trophys and stickers, we should have an article for those

DKC T.V. Show Episodes
Okay, I was looking through the episodes of the old Donkey Kong Country TV series, and 27 out of 40 of the episodes were stub articles. In other words, about 67% of the episodes list were stubs, 33% were exceptional articles (and of that 33%, I think more could qualify for stub articles). What I am proposing is that we merge all the articles into one (of course, the articles that aren't stubs would just be linked to). That would reduce many of the stub articles and boost the quality of Super Mario Wiki up.


 * I have created a PipeProject that will deal with these types of articles. If this proposal is passed, and I get enough support for my PipeProject, I will work on condensing the episodes lists for all the T.V. shows into articles accordingly with their own shows.

Proposer: Deadline: April 19, 2009, 15:00

Merge

 * 1) Per my reasons above.

Leave As Is

 * No, merging some of the articles and leaving others separate wouldn't boost the wiki's quality up. It would make the wiki look rather unorganized. Those stub articles can easily be expanded, and I guess they are more likely to be expanded if they are kept separate.
 * 1) Merging the DKC TV show episodes into one article would mean we also must merge, for example, the SMW TV show episodes into one article, which are quite long enough. Also, most TV show articles are long enough, and merging all episodes of a show into one aricle would probarbly be SO long that it is worth too much KB. Plus, if most think merging the episodes AND the show into one, would be worth too much KB, maybe even some MB, all because it's making too long. Look at the SSBB article, it has already much.
 * 2) - Per the individual up there. It will look bad, its all or none (In few words, NO)
 * 3) I am in concurrence with the above users.
 * 4) - Per all.

Comments
I added a note on my proposal above. Besides, the articles for the episodes are not supposed to tell a whole story, but rather give a brief summary, which is why most of the articles are stubs.
 * Actually, the episode articles are supposed to tell the entire story. Same goes for all game, comic, movie and book articles too. -
 * Oh... Never mind then. Um... Forget that part of the argument! Still, many of the episodes articles can still be condensed and still have good quality. If any are still to long to include in a list of episodes with its text, then they can still be linked to. This would reduce the amount of stub articles and lower the number of huge articles while retaining major information.
 * But that would be inconsistant; if you wanna merge a group of articles (stubs or otherwise), you have to go all or nothing. -
 * What do you mean, inconsistent?
 * Don't think that note will get more voters on the supporting side. Just look at my vote on the opposing side.

Add a script project
Since we already have a Staff list project, why not do something similar by transcribing scripts? The Mega Man Network does scripts, so why shouldn't we?

I know we've already got quotes all over the wiki, but this is where it all comes together, in order of context and such.

This would be a useful resource for Mario fans to follow storylines, find their favorite jokes, etc. This would be especially handy for the more text-heavy games like the RPG games or Super Mario Sunshine. However, games that ultilise extensive emphasis methods may be a bit tricky, as do situations where the current character in control affects the dialogue.

As an example of a script format, I've written up a full transcript of Thudley's dialogue when you first meet him in Super Paper Mario, complete with character-specific variants (dialogue following character names in brackets are specific to the character that the dialogue is directed at). The italicised text were presented in the game as shaky text, and the bold are text where the letters jump out at you when written out in the game. Here is my example:


 * Hey! In case you ain't heard, I throw a lot of girth around these parts. And I'm going to check you out to make sure you got the weight to hang with me.


 * All right, let's start by checking that face of yours. [Mario] Looks like you're sportin' a beefy 'stashe, there. Solid! I give it 60 girth points. [Peach] Look at those big eyes! You make my girthy heart flutter, girl. Those eyes of yours have got some heavy to 'em! You get 70 girth points! [Bowser] Dude has shaggy eyebrows! That's not even kinda girthy! You get 50 girth points.


 * All right, I gotta check the girthiness of those clothes of yours! [Mario] Overalls?! Man, only the brawniest heroes wear those! That's worth 100 girth points! [Peach] A pink dress?! It takes guts to wear that here. Bam! There's 100 girth points! [Bowser] What's more girthy than a giant spiky shell?! That's worth 100 girth points!


 * Girth check on the body comin' up. That's where the real heavy comes from. [Mario] Woah, ho ho! You might be small, but you pack a punch of girth! Girth is a state of mind! You just got yourself another 10,000 girth points! [Peach] Unbelievable! You might be a slender thing, but you got a beefy spirit, girl! I wouldn't mess with a chick like you! You get 1,000,000 girth points! [Bowser] Look at this guy! Look him up in the dictionary, and he's the definition of girth! A superheavyweight right here! Bam... 10,000 girth points!


 * The sheer girthitude on display here is blowing my mind! There's no getting around it! You got heavy like I've never seen before! Any fool that gets in your way and you just HAVE to girth him up! Love it! Smash and squish those lightweights! You're goin' places with girth like that, and I wanna come along for the ride.


 * With our girths combined, nobody can stop us! But you gotta get out of this room first. Put my heavyweight power to work!

So what do you think? Should we allow transcripts, and if we do, find ways to translate any kind of emphasis into the format?

Proposer: Deadline: April 22, 2009, 17:00

Support

 * 1) - Per NES Boy. Random quotations are good and all, but having context for them makes them all the more valuable. Also, right now there's no real place to quote any narration, so if scripts in their entirety can be posted, we can include much more information.
 * 2) - Per Walkazo. A fantastic idea! It's a lot of work, but some hardworking gamers have already posted scripts to Gamefaqs. With their permission, that could save a lot of time.
 * 3) Per all. This is a truly ingenious idea. It improves the quality of the wiki so much, and makes it way more official.
 * 4) - Per Super Mario Bros, the wiki's quality will go up and that's never a bad thing.
 * 5) - Per all. It's a good idea.
 * 6) - This is a great idea that would be good for article reference.
 * 7) - Per NES Boy & Walkazo
 * 8) -Hmm......I suppose.It seems like alot of work,but if it's for the Wiki,I'll do it.
 * 9) - You convinced me guys, also, it would be fun
 * 10) Per. I mean, a lot of Tippi's quotes from SPM are just random words when they don't have a context. -- 18:24, 20 April 2009 (EDT)

Comments
As you said, it would be dificult to transcript those that involve character decisions, so that will make some scripts to be missing

I don't know if there would be problems with copyright and stuff, but apart from that it sounds like a great idea that could be useful for the wiki. I'm actually already working on a script of Mario is Missing!.

Make an Official Stance On Ties
I think that we need an official stance on ties completely. We already have a rule about ties, but it only applies to proposals with 10+ votes. So that is why this proposal is here. If passed, it would create a new rule about all ties in general. Voting is set up a bit oddly, but I have it detailed to make it easier to vote.

Proposer: Deadline: 28 April, 2009, 17:00

Let Deadline Be Extended

 * 1) I think that extending a proposal would be the best thing to do because it receives half support, and could possibly draw in more attention.
 * 2) - Per Super Mario Bros. Seeing as there's already a policy concerning 10+ vote ties (in the Clear Majority rule), the only logical thing to do would be to extend that same extension policy to all ties.
 * 3) - I think that it should be all ties, because what if the proposal seems less important and less people vote in it? There would probably be about the same percentage of votes, but one side may still win by 1 vote.
 * 4) - Per SMB
 * 5) -- Something like this would be a great rule to have in place. I agree with everything SMB said.

Comments
But,, on the other hand, if a lot of people vote against a proposal and that means it is a bad proposal; a lot of people vote for a proposal, it must have a good idea/rule to implement. So that is where I say that there is no definition of a "good" or "bad" proposal is, as whether it is good or bad is a matter of opinion.
 * I believe the past past rule said that any proposal with 3 opposes lost, that was because some users think itll be a bad idea, maybe talking with them would be better to decide
 * What do you mean by "The past past rule"? And talking with them and trying to make a compromise would be better if the deadline was extended (at least, in my opinion).
 * You see? Like now, you convinced me
 * Cool... Thanks!
 * To expand on the 'part part rule', when proposals were first introduced, three No votes with exceptionally good reasons would auto-reject a proposal. I wasn't very active at the time, so I don't know the exact reasoning for the change. --

Add a character battle
Recently, I had nothing to do, so I decided to stop by in Zeldawikia and I discovered an awesome community article called the Temple of Courage. In this article, two Zelda characters were put to "fight". People, including those who are not users, voted for their favorite, and the one with the most votes won (obviously :P). Naturally, I didn't lose time and created and account to vote for my favorite participant.

As I already told you, I liked that, so, I was wondering if we, here in the Mariowiki, could *ehem ehem* create an article like this.

I gave you the link so that you can visit it in Zeldapedia.

So...........what do you think? Should we create our on Mario character battle or not? Any special questions in my talk.

Proposer: Deadline: April 29, 2009, 17:00

Support

 * 1) I really want to have this in the wiki.

Oppose

 * 1) - Super Mario Wiki articles are for the cold, hard facts only; save this sort of thing for a Poll.
 * 2) - Per Walkazo. Actually, there was a Character Battle in the Shroom, but it was ignored.
 * Per Walkazo.
 * 1) -- Per Walkazo.
 * 2) -- Yeah per everybody
 * 3) - Per Walkazo. This seems more of a forum-related thing.
 * 4) Per Walkazo and all.

Comments
Perhaps this idea could be incorporated into the 'Shroom?
 * That idea was in the 'Shroom. --Blitzwing 19:39, 25 April 2009 (EDT)

Actually, Walkazo has a decent idea there. A bracket of sorts could be placed on the forums while the actual voting could be held via the Poll, kind of like the GFAQs Character Battles. Might be a fun little time waster. --

Policy on Soundtracks
Looking through the Wiki, I've noticed that we have very inconsistent coverage of soundtracks. This is because we have no policy on soundtracks. Our current soundtrack coverage consists of Music and subpages, and Template:Media table. As it is, these pages are maintained according to the standard of "whatever we felt like at the time." Many of them include unofficial track names and links to full tracks from the games. I believe this system is unacceptable for several reasons:


 * 1) In linking the soundtracks, we might inhibit Nintendo's ability to make a profit, as game soundtracks are often sold as standalone products or promotional merchandise.
 * 2) Most songs from games are not officially named. Therefore, they all fall under the categories of conjectural info and fanon.
 * 3) Relating to #1 above, their inclusion may put the wiki in a questionable legal situation.

Therefore, I propose we instate one of the following alternative policies:


 * 1) Cropped Soundtracks: Include soundtracks, but ONLY as clips of the first, say, 30 seconds of each song.
 * 2) Degraded Quality: Include soundtracks at a low bitrate, so the clips will be undesirably to people looking to pirate the soundtrack.
 * 3) No Coverage: Do not cover game soundtracks.

Proposer: Deadline: 2 May, 2009, 20:00

Cropped Soundtracks

 * 1) - I think that if we are to do something about soundtracks, it shouldn't be to get rid of them completely. I do agree with 2257, but when I finish my pipeproject, we can at least try to start adding soundtracks. I do not see why we have to stop making soundtracks when we have barely started putting them on the wiki, and voting No Coverage though it isn't getting rid of much we currently have, it will get rid of what could be coming eventually. I think 2257 is right so i'll vote for Cropped Soundtracks, but No Coverage is really not necissary.
 * 2) the mariowiki is supposed to cover everything mario which includes soundtracks, and as for piracy a person who wants to pirate the song isnt going to get all they want out of 30 seconds

No Coverage

 * 1) - Per 2257. I find that no coverage should be made on songs featured in Mario games for all the reasons 2257 mentioned. It's an unnecessary risk that the wiki should not take.
 * 2) - Per 2257. There is no reason to keep these pages, and we don't want to make Nintendo not able to make money!
 * 3) - Per 2257, thats piarcy
 * 4) - Per, See discussion.
 * 5) Per all, and I think we should only have the best quality here on the wiki, or nothing at all. Besides, I have to say this would be piracy.
 * 6) Well, my last comment in this page was erased by previous wiki dificulties (hacking) but, i say that piracy, and i'm not by piracy side!

Discussion
degraded copies make the wiki look degraded. Lu-igi board 10:08, 26 April 2009 (EDT)

Lu-igi board: It's what Wikipedia does, that's really why I suggested it. Zafum: What do you plan to do about the tracks with no names, and how do you plan to solve the copyright issue?

I'm a little divided on the subject. I can understand the issue about MP3s on the wiki, however I'm not sure that removing the soundtrack pages altogether would be beneficial. (I'm mainly divided because I think I might be able to help contribute, meaning supply things like album covers and possibly some corrections on track details.) I'm interested to hear your thoughts on this, and thereafter I will make a decision.


 * I guess the database was reverted for some reason, (Was it Rudniki? O_o) (The database was reverted because of Rudnicki, not by him. )because I actually already talked about this. Anyway, when a soundtrack is released by Nintendo separately from a game, it would still be covered under official merchandise.
 * I see, thanks for clearing it up.

While I have no opinion on including or excluding samples of tracks, I feel that we DO need to expand our OST sections a bit, particularly to try and fill out the merchandise categories. --

Make rules for Poll Selection
The poll page is really falling apart, little by little. So I've come up with some rules that we could make that would eliminate unwanted, or repeated polls, and would make the page look much more formal:
 * 1) No signatures
 * 2) All polls with 2 more opposers than supporters will be deleted
 * 3) All repeated polls will be deleted
 * 4) All non mario polls will be deleted
 * 5) All polls that have over 10 options will be deleted

Proposer: Deadline: 4 May, 2009, 17:00

Make Rules

 * 1) - Per me.
 * 2) - The polls page needs some support. I've been thinking of some new rules since the duty was just passed to me, and these look just fine.
 * 3) The polls really need these rules
 * 4) Per all, Zafum does have a few points.
 * 5) Though i rarely agree with Zafum, this time i have to, Per
 * 6) - OMG THANKS ZAFUM!!!!! I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS PROPOSAL WAS MADE!!! *realizes he's shouting* Ahem, I really wanted a proposal like this one. I've been posting messages in the Poll Selection talk page to make people (and specially Sysops) enforce some rules. Once again, great job, Zafum. I'm glad you took some minutes of your precious time to type this. :awesome:
 * 7) - Right to the nail. This surely will work.
 * 8) - Per all.

New User Ranking
I am proposing that a new ranking should be added added (the current rankings are Patroller, Sysop, and Bureaucrat) for a few reasons. The rank, if this proposal passes, would probably be called Assistant-Patrollers or Monitors and would be ranked below Patrollers but above regular users. This ranking would bring minor things on the wiki up to date and help Patrollers with their duties.
 * 1) I feel that the Wiki has been kind of lagging per say lately. In example, the proposals section sometimes has proposals a day past deadline. The New Proposals section, unless it is updated by another user who has started a new proposal changes it, will often sit not being updated for a few days (not day, days) before being updated. These are only a few examples out of many I could point out.
 * 2) Some users deserve promotions, but may or may not be ready for the current rankings.
 * 3) The Patrollers, Sysops, and Bureaucrats would probably like more help.

For more information on the proposed position, please check this page.

Proposer: Deadline: 5 May 2009, 17:00

Create New Ranking

 * 1) Per my reasons above (and below) and Stooben Rooben's below.
 * 2) - Per the comments above, and my comments below. There are several wikis that have a ranking strictly with the 'rollback' power. While a lot of arguments went on over the Patrollers position's "usefulness", I honestly see no problem adding a rank with the ability to rollback. Sure, any user can revert an edit by clicking 'undo' and saving the page, but having the ability to 'rollback' makes that rank all the more useful. I remember when I was a standard user and I could only revert spam by clicking 'undo' and saving. It took a long time and the odds were that more damage was being done while I was reverting. A few seconds may not seem like a long time, but on the wiki, a lot can happen in a short amount of time.
 * 3) I think this could get some users more active if they know that there is yet another rank that they can strive for which could leave the wiki in a better situation

Don't Create New Ranking

 * 1) - Considering Patrollers were once removed not having enough power, a ranking whose only power is a souped up version of something normal users can already do (Anyone can undo an edit) seems incredibly pointless.
 * 2) - Per Blitz
 * Per Blitzwing. There's no need for another rank. If we need more "higher-privileged" people, they can be perfectly patrollers.
 * 1) - Per all.
 * 2) - Per all. Rollback is handy, but normal users can still revert a bunch of edits at the same time by going into the History and clicking "Edit" on the last revision before the bad edits were made (admins still have to do that if other people have edited in the interim). The whole process takes a minute or so, as opposed to the seconds used for Rollback, but really, that's too small a change to justify all the hastles of installing a new rank.
 * 3) - There is no reason we need a new rank. Per All.
 * 4) - I disagree in response for all. I don't think that another new rank should be set here. In that case, you have decided to create some of the other ranks seen in Wikipedia (checkusers, stewards, oversighters, etc), which they have a more specific action to do, but resulting more complicated to add these restricted features here to an user who is going to be promoted basically.
 * 5) - Per Blitz and Coincollector. There is no reason why a normal user couldn't just undo an edit. Promotions aren't a "title" but rather a set of tools experienced users use, and it does seem incredibly pointless to make porple go through the work to make another usergroup that can virtually do the same thing normal users can do.

Comments
I am not sure if this falls under the promotions rule of proposals, I do remember a proposal about Patrollers, though.
 * Okay, a few notes here.


 * First and foremost, once this clears, we must inform about the changed that need to be made. (If they can be.)
 * Secondly, what kind of powers would this ranking have? Patrollers have the ability to Block, Patrol, and Rollback, so this ranking would have to have even less powers.
 * Third, the proposals page does not need to be updated by a Sysop. Any user can archive proposals.

--


 * To respond to your notes:


 * I will make sure that knows about this. He seems to have been offline lately, if he is when we tell him, and he doesn't respond, I won't know what to do then.
 * This new ranking would have the powers of Rollback and Patroling, not much less than a Patroller, but they are basically Patrollers in training.
 * I know, I have archived proposals before, but a lot of users who see proposals just sitting there and don't do anything about it. This could possibly be a part of the new position, making sure that everything is up to date. This would help keep the flow of Wiki going.

I hope that explains everything.

Cool, thanks for elaborating.
 * Porplemontage was recently on a short hiatus, but he returned last night. He'll be active daily, likely.
 * Okay. This is merely my thoughts on a Monitor's power, but I believe they should only have the ability to Rollback. There are several wikis that have a rank just for rolling back, so I think that would be a good idea. But, since this is your proposal, I'm not forcing my opinions on you.
 * Alright, that sounds fair.

--


 * Well, now that I look at what you said, I think you are correct. I think the Moniter would be too similar to Patrollers with both powers, they should only have Rollback. Thank you for pointing that out.
 * Alright, then. You have my support!
 * Thank you for your support and help with the proposal itself.

But, what I am saying, is that the Wiki has been slow, and that a new ranking could possibly help. Some users might think that they shouldn't do stuff if they don't have a fancy title (which I think would be dumb, but very well might be true). Some users who qualify for Patroller never get promoted, (and one user, who's name I will not state, was never promoted, did a lot on the wiki. He has retired and considered himself a failure). Besides, as I said, even a tiny position such as the proposed Monitor can have a big effect on the wiki. If the Patroller ranking was deleted, then why was it added back to the wiki? It was considered a small position to the wiki, but when it was deleted, people realized that change. So, yes, even a minor position can have a big effect.
 * And besides, think about it. Do we have a need for Sysops? If you think about it, we could just break up the position and give more duties to the Bureaucrats and Patrollers. A Sysop can be compared, in a sense, to a Patroller with a few more duties or a Bureaucrat with less duties, so it can easily be done. If the Sysops group was broken up right now, those in the group who are not Bureaucrats can either be promoted to Bureaucrat or demoted to Patroller. Right? So, the proposed Monitor can be thought of as a user with a little extra power or Patrollers with a little less power.
 * The Patroller rank was gone for a long time and the wiki was just fine; it was brought back because the place became all the more active and we could justify having Patrollers around again. Also, promotions aren't just about power, but responsibility; even if someone is really active, they may not be ready for the ability to block or promote people. There's much more to Wiki politics than meets the eye, so having Bureaucrats (executive decisions), Sysops (rule enforcement and content regulation) and Patrollers (monitoring) does make sense. Some Wikis do skip Sysops, but their user population dynamics are different than ours, and can therefore be handled differently; what works for them might be disasterous for us. Also, your "Sysop is just a less powerful 'Crat/more powerful Patroller" logic is flawed: all ranks can be seen as "just" more or less powerful than the others. -
 * Ok, a few things to you, Walkazo:


 * I understand what you said about the Patrollers being removed and reinstated, and wouldn't another rank be good, then? This could give the wiki a better chance to have more activity among the users.
 * Did you even look at the link I added on the proposal? I listed some of the powers and responsibilities of this proposed promotion.
 * The monitor position would be kind of like training for Patroller. Not all users are ready for promotions, and this position can help shape some of the users into better candidates for promotion.
 * I was only using the "Sysop is just a less powerful "Crat/more powerful Patroller" as an example, I beleive in Sysops, and could not imagine what horrors could happen without them. Also, I was using it to prove wrong the quote below.
 * The Sysops thing I mentioned was also not my logic, but 's
 * Here is the quote: " - Considering Patrollers were once removed not having enough power, a ranking whose only power is a souped up version of something normal users can already do (Anyone can undo an edit) seems incredibly pointless" - It also may seem pointless, to some users, to have Sysops or Patrollers. Also, why do we have rollback? If any user can undo an edit, then I guess the Patrollers, Syops, or 'Crats don't need rollback either, am I correct? And, if Patrollers boosted activity, then couldn't the proposed Monitors, too? It can, in fact, train people for Patroller-hood while still retaining some of their "regular" user features. So that above statement by can also be considered "incredibly pointless" also, right?


 * Patrollers have something of an actual, clearly defined role. Your proposed rank can... revert stuff faster (And even there, most trolls only vandalize a page once. the only difference rollback has with undo is that it removes all edits by one user instead of the last). While a Patroller could at least block the vandal, a monitor would be stuck reverting the vandal's edit up until an higher rank comes. And the "It will increase activity!" argument is very flawed, if anything, chances are anyone that have an interesting thing to bring have already edited.

I'd also like to point out you simple can't create a new rank out of the blue, you need a plugin for that. --Blitzwing 07:08, 30 April 2009 (EDT)
 * Blitzwing, I can understand your point, but this rank would be a little more than just a rank... As I have said before, it could help train users who have the potential to be Patrollers, but are not yet just ready. And I said it could increase activity, I never said it definitely would.
 * The Patrollers themselves are supposed to be a "training" for sysop, having another rank to "train" is very redundant, especially since such a small rank could easily lend itself to a mass of Biased, not well thought out promotions. --Blitzwing 17:24, 30 April 2009 (EDT)

The extension is right here; it's still compatible with our version of MediaWiki. Personally, I doubt that activity will increase because of a new rank. But, I do believe that it will 1) Give users something even more to look forward to, and 2) it will make vandalism easier to revert for some users. Sure, it may only be a few seconds' difference, but the shortest amount of time seems to make all the difference at times. --
 * Now that I think about it, the rank may not increase activity, and I agree with Stooben Rooben.

As I said above this could really inprove the wiki by making more active users.
 * It could possibly make more active users, it actually may, it may not.

yea it may not make more active users its just I personilly think that it has a good chance of makeing users more active, just my oppion.
 * Okay

Despite I'm opposing the proposal, it's possible you might refer to an user who can be under the rank of a patroller, but higher than a normal user, able to get some new features, and the best fitting would be the rollback feature. Users sometimes consider that undoing a revision is a bit cumbersome, specially when the article is long, and requires a lot of time to save the undone work. The disadvantage of using the undo option is that only appears when you compare the two last revisions, and sometimes the info contained in an article is really long and it takes long time waiting to undo the las revision. Still, we have the rollback feature which is faster, and doesn't require to compare the latest revisions, because you can "undo" all the revisions made by an user. In wikipedia, those users that have this action are known as Rollbackers, and perhaps it can be implemented here for those active users who are always checking the history of pages.
 * That is basically what I was proposing, only I wanted to rename the position to Monitor because I thought it would fit with the name of the Patroller ranking. I intended the proposed ranking to give some active users who are not yet ready for the Patroller rank, who deserve the title and are responsible enough to use the rollback correctly. Also, because it is not too different to the Patroller ranking, the users who would be Monitors can be considered "Patrollers in Training" or back-up to Patrollers if things get out of control.

However, going to my comment (why I'm opposing) is that I'm not pretty sure if many active users should deserve this special ranking (specially if they gain faith from administrators and bureaucrats, beacuse maybe we are giving those privileges to the wrong hands); while sometimes, patrollers claim that their rank status is boring, giving a response that another specific rank shouldn't be set here. By the way, how could consider if we need another new ranking?
 * Well, from the sound of his reply, Porplemontage doesn't seem against adding a new rank, but I had only told him that there was a proposal on the subject. He said, "Sounds good". I asked him if he would be ok with the new ranking if the proposal were to pass; I am waiting for a response and will post what he says here. And simply, if a user does not deserve a promotion, they would not get one. I would say that the qualifications of the proposed monitor rank are:

And besides, you mentioned that some Patrollers find their job boring. Does that mean that we should exclude that ranking? I think that, though some users would not like being a monitor and find the position boring, it can still help the wiki. Some people, if the proposal passes and monitors are appointed, might think that the position is fun. I think it is definitely more efficient.
 * Active users
 * Serious about the wiki, and not taking it for a joke
 * Would do good as a monitor.
 * And Porplemontage said that he would add the ranking if the proposal passed on his talkpage.

Creating Pages for Galleries
Going to the point, I see that certain pages have a lot of pictures in their gallery sections, especially in the characters' pages. My proposal consists if we can create a page for those big galleries, while a small part of such gallery can be seen in the original page. This is simple, and can reduce the loading time for the pictures, setting them in an independent page (in a subpage attached to the article's page, exactly); similar to the quote pages, but using images. I have a small proof where this game's artwork was set here.

Proposer: Deadline: 7 May 2009, 17:00

Agree

 * 1) - Said above.
 * 2) Per Coincollector, I think this would be a good idea, my computer is slow even loading a short page!
 * 3) - Per Coincollector.
 * 4) - Though the loading time on my computer is really not that bad, if it helps others with their comps, I guess it's worth a try.
 * Per Coincollector.
 * Per Coincollector and Time Q's comment.
 * Per all; I'm definitely for this. Would be a great help.
 * 1) - Per Coincollector
 * 2) - Per all.
 * 3) - I think that would be a great idea. It would help clean out pages and more pictures could also be added to the page than the character's page.

Comments
I think it would make sense to make those gallery pages sub-pages of the article where the images were taken from. For example, Luigi's gallery should be put on a page called "Luigi/Gallery".


 * OK, let's do it.

Oh happy me! Someone used my left-out and obscure idea for this freaking proposal! XD (with the exception of St00bs) A question or two, is it categories or pages? Categories...? Images would be marked as if they have no article to attach to. ;o And then... I would cry and say, HOW COULD YOU?!!!!?!  So... any questions? :)
 * The images would go in a gallery. I think the category linked to in the proposal is just an example of which images would be in a NSMB Gallery if one were made; the category is an example of the same style of organization (but I'm not Coincollector, so I could be wrong). And yeah, we definitely don't want the images to appear "unused", as that gets confusing and makes it hard to spot actual unused images. -
 * I actually think it must be a subpage. That doesn't have to get more pages, and official names of characters or games can be added. You can't edit galleries to categories, and you can't move images to different names. Also, you can click on the link to go to that specefic character or game's page if you can edit. That would not happen in a category, because of the reason that you can't edit galleries in categories, as earlier said. That's why I think it must be a subpage.

I just have one question. Would you do the same for screenshots or only artwork?If you do would they have sepreate galleries or be part of the same? I guess it matters on the amount of artwork and screenshots. -
 * By the sounds of it, all the galleries would go on one gallery sub-page. The galleries for artwork and screenshots and whatnot could be given seperate headers and galleries within the page, like how they're set up on the pages themselves now. Also, you're right in that it would matter on the amount of images: if a page only has a four-image gallery, making a subpage would be a bit silly; likewise, if there's five screenshots and three pieces of artwork, segregating them wouldn't look organized, just overly spaceous. -