Talk:Super Mario (franchise)

Dear Lord (no offense to atheists :P)
This article pretty much sucks and its like one of the main articles around here a group of pipe projecters need to get together and redo this or something...

What this be
See like the Donkey Kong (series) article on Wikipedia? This is supposed to be the same deal except for Mario. -- Steve (talk) http://www.porplemontage.com/images/firefox_27x15.png 16:39, 4 November 2006 (EST)

No edits!
I think I'll have to get rid of collaborations, sadly. This just isn't working out. 20:02, 29 November 2006 (EST)

How's This?
I expanded the article quite a bit. I tried to stick with platformers, but I added in anytime Mario entered a subseries (Mario Kart, Mario Tennis, ect.) I would like to add a section later about each subseries as well as a section about spin offs. What do you guys think?

Wanderingshadow 10:53, 30 November 2006 (EST)
 * Very nice, and thanks for helping. Two minor issues:
 * Try to italicize all game titles on this wiki.
 * Each header needs two equal signs, not one, and each sub-header then needs three, not two. Never one equal sign.
 * 15:06, 30 November 2006 (EST)

revert?
Why did you revert my edit? All the things I know about mario are problably already on this wiki! The least I can do is give a timeline of the events in the marioverse. Let me help in a way I can, or I would be a timewasting user!--Dummmmmmy 21:36, 7 September 2007 (EDT)
 * We don't really need a seperate article on the History of the Marioverse. Mario (series) is good enough, all the history goes on that page. No need for another page.
 * I agree with DP.

No Mario power tennis or super smash bros. melee or super smash bros. brawl?????!!!!!
Why is there Mario tennis but no Mario power tennis? That game was way better than Mario tennis. (I also got Mario tennis power tour for the gameboy advance) And what about super smash bros. melee? That was one of the best game for the Game-cube. --Super mario fan 17:55, 15 January 2008 (EST)Super mario fan

Its not that they weren't allowed to be in the article, its just that this article needs some major updating. 17:56, 15 January 2008 (EST)

Possibility of a shooter?
Please no! It would ruin the good Mario feeling! User:MarioMop
 * Yoshi's Safari is a Mario shooter, released as early as 1993. - 18:03, 15 February 2008 (EST)

That's different. I meant a first-person 1 with lots of blood and gore. User:MarioMop

Beta SMG
The picture of Super Mario Galaxy is Beta and is slightly misleading. Can it be changed? 00:09, 9 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Of course. Why don't you find a good picture from the article on Super Mario Galaxy or elsewhere off Wiki and use it?  10:47, 9 September 2008 (EDT)
 * I'm wondering if this is a good picture. Is it? 22:43, 9 September 2008 (EDT)
 * That's fine! 00:45, 11 September 2008 (EDT)

Wikipedia as Reference Sources
Why are we citing Wikipedia as a source of factual information? Like this wiki, Wikipedia needs to back up its information with other sources. We shouldn't be citing Wikipedia as a source. It defeats the whole purpose of citing information in the first place. -- Son of Suns
 * Agree, citing a wiki that everyone can edit in another wiki that everyone can edit as well is no good. --Grandy02 08:50, 21 November 2008 (EST)
 * Yeah, there's no point in citing Wikipedia because of this factuality problem, and also because their Mario articles well, sucks. --Blitzwing 09:43, 21 November 2008 (EST)
 * All of the citations have been replaced. 15:43, 21 November 2008 (EST)

Information from Spin-Offs
Listing games from spin-offs is just rehashing information that is already on the spin-off series pages, and also by their inclusion, we would logically include spin-offs like the entire Yoshi series, etc. Should we go ahead and move the games to their appropriate articles and put blurbs on this page about when the spin-offs began? 13:05, 1 December 2008 (EST)
 * Well, as far as in the main section of the article (that includes summaries of all the main Mario games), I only included the first game of each spin-off because they could be considered notable for starting the spin-offs. As for the Spin-off and Partner series sections, they will just give very brief overviews of those series game mechanics (ex: The Mario Kart series is a sub-series that pertains strictly to Mario and related characters competing in racing championships. [...]). I didn't plan on having the article explain every single game from every single sub/partner series because that would: A) Rehash other articles material vastly, as you stated; and B) It would make the article unnecessarily long, as it should only pertain to things directly related to the Mario series, and only contain small amounts of information about series related to it. 13:12, 1 December 2008 (EST)
 * Oh, yeah, I was cool with that - it's actually what I was hoping would happen, but it's just that you have the Paper Mario (series) and Mario & Luigi (series) entries in there as well. And by the way, may I say excellent work?  20:23, 1 December 2008 (EST)
 * Cool, glad that's what you expected. As for the Paper Mario and M&L series, I only left them in there because they have very large storylines. I always thought they were part of the main series, but this site says otherwise. Do you think they should be taken out? Also, thanks for the compliment. :D 20:45, 1 December 2008 (EST)
 * I think they should be left on the main series page, since they're pretty much core Mario games with gimmicks, not stand-alone projects (i.e. the Yoshi's Island series). They have unique aspects, yes, but while that groups them together it doesn't have to set them apart from the rest as well. They're also, as Stooby mentioned, rather substantial games, and I feel not including them would seem like a glaring omission. And, they're rather small (3 or 2 games), so it's not like it's going to clutter up the page like any Mario Kart coverage would, for example. - 22:34, 1 December 2008 (EST)
 * Very true on all points. I think we need to find an official definition of what the Mario/Super Mario series is before we go further.  Great work again!  23:14, 1 December 2008 (EST)

Release years
Sorry if I annoy you with this again, but wouldn't it be better to use the original years of release, regardless of region? That means that Super Mario Bros. 3 was actually released in 1988 and so it came out before Super Mario Land. Chronology also tells so, so it's even a guideline to go by the original dates. --Grandy02 13:23, 1 December 2008 (EST)
 * I can do that, and then put the flag of the country in which it was released next to it. 13:25, 1 December 2008 (EST)
 * Yeah, would be nice, it's important that the games are in correct order. --Grandy02 13:35, 1 December 2008 (EST)
 * Okay, I'll get to that right away. 13:39, 1 December 2008 (EST)
 * There, how's that? 14:39, 1 December 2008 (EST)

Yoshi's Safari
This game isn't listed yet, but I think it should go in with the main Mario titles, not the Yoshi spin-off section. Unlike the Yoshi games, the "o" in the title of Yoshi's Safari is not a Yoshi Egg, so that suggests it's not a Yoshi game. It doesn't really have anything in common with the Yoshi games, and it stars (adult) Mario, not Yoshi. Saying it is a Yoshi game because it has "Yoshi" in the title is as speculative as my reasoning for why it shouldn't be considered a Yoshi game. It's currently included on the Yoshi (series) page, but the reason I've brought it up here is because it poses a bit of a conundrum for this page in particular: Yoshi's Safari is the first game to refer to Princess Toadstool as "Peach", something that is currently being attributed erroneously to Super Mario 64. If Yoshi's Safari is listed with the main Mario titles everything turns out smooth, but if it's relegated to the Yoshi series, it gets a bit more dicey. Switching from "Toadstool" to "Peach" without explanation would be unprofessional, but making a special note of it in SM64 ' s entry would be a tad clunky... - 01:40, 24 December 2008 (EST)
 * I think that could be done. The reasons you bring up sound valid, (most specifically the point about the "o" in the titles). At the very least, they should be in both series pages, but I'd support removing the game's information from the Yoshi (series) article and rewriting it here. 01:47, 24 December 2008 (EST)

You have to be careful about the Peach/Toadstool business. In Yoshi's Safari she's called Peach, but in Super Mario RPG which was released after Yoshi's Safari she's still Toadstool. The change was only permanent since Super Mario 64. I also don't think this is so important that it should get several mentionings. - 05:38, 24 December 2008 (EST)
 * I'll wait for some more feedback before doing anything then. 21:19, 27 December 2008 (EST)

The game most related to Yoshi's Safari is Super Mario World. It features the same enemies (such as Chargin' Chucks), the same bosses (the Koopalings), and the same items (such as Berries). Do whatever you want with the game's information, but as a proud owner of Yoshi's Safari, I can definitely tell you the game is closely linked to Super Mario World, not Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island. =) -- Oh, I should also note you play as Mario throughout the game, unlike most Yoshi games where you play as Yoshi (of course).
 * You're SO lucky! I've been trying to get Yoshi's Safari for years... Anyway, your observations are bang-on, and while Yoshi's Safari isn't the only Yoshi title that has very little in common with Yoshi's Island, it's certainly the most unique. Yoshi and Yoshi's Cookie are both run-of-the-mill puzzle games, whereas Yoshi's Safari is the only Mario (rail) shooter; this in itself should make Yoshi's Safari significant enough to merit inclusion with the other "core" Mario games. - 02:00, 28 December 2008 (EST)
 * Alright, Son of Suns's additional information convinced me to add an entry for Yoshi's Safari. I added some of the information you all provided, so I thank you for making suggestions. :) 21:51, 28 December 2008 (EST)

Question
What kind of information should this article have about the Mario cartoons, comics, and movie? Should that be mentioned in the "Cultural Impact" section? Or what? I never got into Mario's alternate media, so I really don't know. 22:05, 31 January 2009 (EST)
 * I dunno, Stooby. I once made a proposal to not include information from the Mario movie, in the Mario article, but the vote was to include the information. Even though I hated the movie, I think they were right. I mean, it is on the complete mario series. I would just include all mario information all over, and not just in the cultural impact section. But thats my opinion. --
 * A Mario Media section perharps?
 * Good idea. I'll go with making an "Alternate Media" subsection. 23:13, 31 January 2009 (EST)
 * "Alternate Media" is probably not the best section title, as it implies "alternate canon." Trying to think of a better section title... --
 * Wikipedia has a "Mario in other media" section in their Mario series article. --

I suppose that'd work. Thanks. 23:29, 31 January 2009 (EST)

Mario & Luigi RPG 3
I was wondering: should I insert an entry for M&L3, or should it wait until we have more information on it? 00:34, 1 February 2009 (EST)
 * Waiting until it's released would probably be best, that way the hastle of incoporating new information as it comes trickling in won't become a part of this article too. There could be a section for "Upcoming" stuff, with a list and a brief exposition for each confirmed upcoming game. M&L3 ' s blurb would be along the lines of: "The third installment in the Mario & Luigi series. Mario, Luigi and Bowser are all playable characters, and are aided by Peach, Toadsworth and many other recurring characters. The main villain is Fawful, who scemes to take over the Mushroom and Koopa Kingdoms." Of course, some games will have less information pertaining to them than M&L3. -  00:49, 1 February 2009 (EST)
 * Sounds good to me. 13:36, 1 February 2009 (EST)
 * I still think listing Mario & Luigi titles on both their series page and the Mario (series) page is redundant, but this article is fantastic. 16:01, 1 February 2009 (EST)

Reviews
Would using GameRankings be more complete and easier method of showing how critically successful a game is, rather than selecting a couple reviews from the internet? 14:58, 12 March 2009 (EDT)

King Boo
King Boo is an important character in the Mario series. Is it okay if I add him to the major characters section?
 * Since even Waluigi is in there, and King Boo is the major antagonist for Luigi, I'd give my ok, but I don't know what the others might say about this. - 12:33, 23 September 2009 (EDT)

New Super Mario Bros. Wii to be Added
We need to add New Super Mario Bros. Wii to the game list! Absorr 12:04, 7 January 2010 (EST)

Koopalings and Kamek
The Koopalings and Kamek are important characters in the Mario Series. You can insert them in the section of characters? --Mikiuz 09:06, 12 February 2010 (EST)

Koopalings, yes, Kamek maybe. Shouldn't there be a section on NSMBWii?

In fact, they have to do a section on New Super Mario Bros. Wii. I can not because I have knowledge of English is not very high. --Mikiuz 01:57, 13 February 2010 (EST)

What Does That Even Mean
I recently changed the page to be protagonists, antagonists, and then species rather than just character and species. Beforehand though, I tried placing King Boo and Petey Piranha in the species section, but somebody undid that. The only problem here is that numerous other enemy characters appear just as often as these two do. I'd like to know how we can have these two in the antagonists section when so many other enemies appear as playable characters enough times? ForeverDaisy09 20:58, 16 February 2010 (EST)
 * I must admit, is hard categorizing that and many people will oppose. KIng Boo and Petey Piranha are individual characters, their species are Boos and Piranha Plants -- 21:17, 16 February 2010 (EST)
 * A species is when multiple of their kind appear in the same game, like Goomba or Koopa Troopa. A character is an individual, like Petey Pirahna and King Boo.

Aside from King Boo, Petey Piranha have appeared as species before. ForeverDaisy09 22:26, 16 February 2010 (EST)
 * I would think moving Petey Piranha under "antagonists" would be best, since his entry is about the character. 14:06, 17 February 2010 (EST)
 * When was Petey Piranha an antagonist? --
 * Does Super Mario Sunshine ring a bell?
 * Does the idea Petey has been a boss in one game clue into the idea that maybe he should just be listed as the species he is like the other characters who have appeared as often as he has? ForeverDaisy09 19:50, 17 February 2010 (EST)

@Reversinator: Do minor bosses count as "antagonists"? When I hear the word antagonist, I think main villains, e.g. Bowser, Wart, Ganondorf, Dimentio and the like. I believe that's what the definition of the word is. --
 * Then how about changing the names from protagonists and antagonists to heroes and villains?

Petey is hardly even a villain though. Like every other enemy species he just happens to be a retaliating enemy in certain games. King Boo is known for being evil. Petey is just like any other enemy character like Wiggler. Also, what about Kamek? Is there a difference between Kamek and Magikoopa? I don't get it. ForeverDaisy09 20:16, 17 February 2010 (EST)
 * The gender, AFAIK. -- 20:39, 17 February 2010 (EST)
 * They're both called Kamek in Japanese, IIRC. --

So aren't they the same character? ForeverDaisy09 23:06, 17 February 2010 (EST)
 * King Boo, Petey Piranha and Kamek are all individual characters, not species. Kamek can be separated from average Magikoopas by behavior - he was the guy who raised Bowser and appeared in a number of games, just like how Yoshi can be told apart from other members of his species because of the special role he plays in certain titles. King Boo is another character who keeps showing up: he may look different in his many appearances, but we have no solid reason to believe they're different people. Same goes for Petey: there may be more than one giant mutant Piranha Plants running around (as evidenced by Mario Hoops: 3-on-3), but for the most part, it is suggested that the playable Petey Piranha at the very least is a recurring individual, and to say otherwise would be overly speculative. Nintendo gives us very little to go by when it comes to continuity, so second-guessing something as basic as names is more than we can afford. - 00:21, 19 February 2010 (EST)

So then why isn't Kamek on this page? And also, the Wiggler who appears playable is different from normal Wiggler's as it actually has arms and such. ForeverDaisy09 00:43, 19 February 2010 (EST)
 * Kamek should be on the page: he's made enough appearances and done enough stuff to warrant a mention (I'd add him myself if my computer could handle it). On the other hand, the Wiggler character isn't major enough for an entry (the species' section is fine, though). - 01:30, 19 February 2010 (EST)
 * By the way, those two Pety Pirahna-lookalikes aren't Petey Pirahna. They're Malboros from the Final Fantasy series.
 * What are you talking about? The level has a variation, but the Daisy Garden still has two Petey Piranhas. ForeverDaisy09 18:22, 19 February 2010 (EST)
 * Huh. I forgot about Daisy Garden.

"'Super Mario' series"
The article currently states that The most popular games in the series consist of what is known as the "main" series or the "Super Mario" series without giving any closer definition of what is meant by that; what would the "'Super Mario' series" include? Every game whose name starts with "Super Mario"? The rest of the sentence seems to imply this: 2D and 3D platformers, at least one per home console and one per handheld. "Super Mario Bros." and "Super Mario Land" are listed as sub-series however, and so is "Super Mario", making it appear as though these were seperate, which would make the aforementioned statement about the "Super Mario" series including at least one game per console and handheld false. If the "Super Mario" series is a sub-series of this, the "Super Mario Bros." and "Super Mario Land" series would have to be sub-sub-series in order for the statement to be true. There is currently no indication of this, however, and the whole "Super Mario" series thing in general is very confusing to me. Could somebody clear this up?--vellidragon 21:28, 13 April 2010 (EDT)
 * Then we should get rid of the "'Super Mario' series" section.

stares at text. Uh, what? I don't really understand what you are talking about, sorry.

The "Super Mario" "series" shouldn't exist. The "Super Mario" "series" should be simply the "Mario" series. Super Mario Land and its sequel should be in the main section (Super Mario Land 3 shouldn't be here because it's not part of the Mario series anymore; it's now the beginning of the Wario Land series). Any other games that have series of its own should be a spin-off (Mario Party, Mario and Luigi, Paper Mario, etc.)  00:15, 5 May 2010 (EDT)

Too many missing!!
When this was nominated for an FA, I claimed that some of the older games were missing. I made a huge understatement. Many, Many Many games are not shown in the list. I'm willing to fix it but I'll need help. 05:19 6 May 2010

That's Strange
When this was nominated for an FA it was brought up in the comments that Roslalina was not in the Major Chracters section, another claimed she could not be there as she has only been in two games. Then why do we have the Ice Flower in the Items section when it has appeared in the same number of games??

She shouldn't be in Major Characters.

Super Mario 3D series
What? How is that a separate series? Shouldn't it be merged with "Super Mario"?

02:09, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't get what a "Super Mario 3D" series is even supposed to be; there's not a single Mario game that has "Super Mario 3D" in the title, it's simply specified as a bunch of unrelated games that happen to be 3D platformers in the article. Is there any official word or anything the like even claiming that such a "sub-series" exists?--vellidragon 23:47, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
 * The Super Mario 3D Series term relates to all games in the (previously-known-as) Super Mario series that are 3D. It is apparently defined as a seperate series though I have removed the "Super" part because "Super" is not required.
 * I agree with vellidragon: this "Mario 3D" series has always struck me as being unofficial (actually, the "Super Mario" series did too, but at least its name was based on actual titles), and with the 3DS about to introduce games that are actually three dimensional, it's going to become rather misleading. An official source for the term should be provided, and if there isn't one, perhaps this "series" should be reconsidered (maybe via Proposal). - 22:50, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Super Mario All-Stars - 25th Anniversary Edition came with a "Super Mario History" Booklet, in which all the 2D and 3D platformers were listed as a single "Super Mario" series, not as separate "Super Mario Bros." and "Mario 3D" series. Since we now have an official term for the games (and seeing as almost all the wiki already uses "Super Mario" History sections for the core games), I'm going ahead and re-combining the two sub-series. - 22:43, 28 December 2010 (EST)

In the resent nintendo interveiw they say Super Mario Bros. series, and refer to the most resent game in that series as New Super Mario Bros. Wii. This impllies that the Super Mario Bros. and 3D Mario Games as separate. -IGGY7735
 * People sometimes get things wrong in interviews, and I've seen "Mario", "Super Mario" and "Super Mario Bros." all used interchangibly for the games over the years, depending on who's talking and how informal they are, and a whole host of other things to take into consideration. Going with something in writing is always better - especially when the alternate involved the word implies: reading between the lines can be just as bad as speculation (which itself would still be involved here - they didn't say "Super Mario 3D series" too, did they? If not, that's still completely unofficial). Really, I don't understand why you want to split this series up so badly: the wiki is fine the way it is. - 00:22, 3 February 2011 (EST)

Locations
I think there should be a locations section. Some could be :
 * Toad Town
 * Princess Peach's Castle
 * Bowser's Castle
 * Yoshi's Island (possibly)
 * Isle Delfino (possibly)
 * Maybe a thing for worlds 1-8 from the platformers
 * Toad Houses

I'm not sure about any others.

I also think that Firebars should be in the objects section.

That is kinda a good idea!

Missing Crossover
There isn't Mario & Sonic at Winter Olimpic Games in the crossover list


 * Add it. If you feel something should be added, you should add it.

But i didn't play the game so i can't say anithing about it


 * Just read the article, comprehend it, and add it! I've done a lot of stuff that I never played the game.

DK
Does anyone mind if I move the Donkey Kong and Donkey Kong Jr. games into the Donkey Kong (series) article, since the two games aren't really Mario games? I just want to make sure it's fine before I remove all that stuff.

Yeah, go ahead, but can you just COPY it there? Since Mario DOES appear in those game.
 * Yeah, but they are Donkey Kong games, part of the DK series. They are not actually in the Mario series, even though Mario is in the game. If you ask me, the first Mario game was Mario Bros., not Donkey Kong.

Well, its his first appearence. Donkey Kong is still part of the Mario series you know. I'd advise you to keep it there. At least Donkey Kong HAS to be there, since its Mario's first game. Maybe we can disinclude Donkey Kong Jr. You can ask Steve about this. I have to go now though
 * Steve only answers questions about technical problems with the wiki n' stuff. Mario appeared for the first time there, yes, but so did DK. And considering the fact that the game is called Donkey Kong, you have to say it's part of that series.

Yeah, so you can put it in both series. Mario is after all, and with all due respect, more important than Donkey Kong. I mean with all the spin-offs inculding Donkey Kong, its always MARIO something. Also, if Donkey Kong (and Yoshi and Wario) were individual series, they would be lower than call of duty and resident evil on the bestseller lists.
 * What does series popularity do with any of this?
 * IMO Donkey Kong and Donkey Kong Jr. are games in the Mario series. Either that or they are part of their own series. The DK series games feature different characters than those in the Mario series. I think it should just be kept there personally.
 * Well, I wanted to put a list of games in the Donkey Kong series articles that is like the one in this article, but I just don't think it would make sense without Donkey Kong and Donkey Kong Jr. I find it odd that Nintendo is celebrating the Mario series 25th anniversary, when Donkey Kong was released longer ago than that.

The (landmark) game released 25 years ago was Super Mario Bros., two years after the release of Mario Bros. and four after DK's original release. Unless you consider Mario Bros. a part of another series then Nintendo is probably celebrating the Super Mario series. I still think Donkey Kong (and DKJR.) would be considered part of the Mario series or another sub-series of its own.
 * Yeah... would it be OK to have the games in both articles? I mean, it could be considered as part of both series. Or perhaps the two series could have branched off of Donkey Kong and Donkey Kong Jr.? Also, Mario was known as Jumpman in those games, so I just can't think of then as actually Mario series games.

I don't know, it's already been integrated into the Mario series...it's more of a Mario series game even if it branched off into a second series. Super Mario World branched off to the Yoshi series, Super Mario Land branched the Wario series. I don't think we should be inconsistent just because the name doesn't begin with Super Mario :/

P.S. I removed the indent on purpose, that is indented way to far in for my liking, I usually remove it at 3-4.

OK, what about Donkey Kong 3? That's not considered to be a Mario series game, and it makes no sense to have that as the first Donkey Kong game, since it's a sequel.
 * :O - Oh my! I think this thing should be entirely reversed to get DK3 moved into the Mario series.
 * And DK2 too I guess... I find it all messed up and confusing :/
 * DK2 is already part :/


 * Anyways, I think that these things should either be merged with the Mario series or moved into their own series...though I don't know what it could be called...anyways, should I do the move or do you want to or do you not want to do it at all?

I'm too busy to move anything. If we are going to make a separate article for those games, call it Donkey Kong (original series) or something.
 * Also keep in mind that Donkey Kong 94 and the Mario vs. Donkey Kong series are continuations of the original DK games - at least in spirit... I think the simplest thing to do would be to include the games in both series, like you proposed earlier, Fawfulfury65. It works just fine for the navigation templates, after all. - 21:12, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

If we keep them, we should add King K. Rool and add enemies such as Zinger and Kritter.

P.S. Animal Buddies, too.

"Other Series"
The section "Other Series" currently has only a single sub-section, which makes no sense, while "Mario and Crossover Series", which seems to relate to other series, is a seperate section. However, when trying to edit "Other Series", the Mario and Crossover section appears in the editing window below "Partner Series" for some reason as though it was part of the same section. Was it meant as a sub-section of Other Series?--vellidragon 23:59, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I believe I fixed it, there was a problem with the table. I don't see how that could cause a glitched up header but I fixed the table and the header moved so...let's just take it as a blessing!

Reorganization
I hope no one minds, but I went ahead and moved around a bunch of the sections, turned some things into sub-sections, and changed a few headers. I moved the series and alternate media content up beneath the games because I felt that would better reflect how the rest of the wiki is organized: with all the titles first in a History section, followed by everything else. I grouped the items, objects, characters and species into one section, since I think it makes the page look more organized and easier to navigate: now the unique "Critical Reception" and "Cultural Impact" sections clearly stand out from the sub-sections of in-universe content above them. Aside from minor rewrites and maintenance work (which I'm doing in edits other than the main rearranging one), I didn't change any of the actual content. - 16:10, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Species
Do all of the species have to be enemies? We should include the Toad species!


 * in addition there must also humans and ghosts

Say I was just wondering? Shouldn't the whomp species be included in that list, I think I saw them there before but now there gone. I know there species origin is from the thwomp but I think by now they are both important and unique enough to be included... it was done for the para-Goombas and para-koopas I know that for sure. 05:23, 26 June 2011
 * See this section: there were way too many species, so we trimmed some. Paratroopas are definitely section-worthy, seeing as they've been included as playable characters and are found in most Mario games, and Paragoombas are only slightly less major. On the other hand, Whomps haven't been in very many sub-series and aren't as iconic as the species we left up. - 19:31, 26 June 2011 (EDT)

Hey...
Isn't Birdo bad??

Technically, yes, but this is also an issue w/ Wario, he's had a antagonist and protagonist games, but is listed as bad. I guess, this is only a guess, but since Birdo has a relation to Yoshi, and seems friendlier, she's listed as good. I think this is incorrect, but since Birdo has many appearences in spin-off games, and only a couple good series appearences, she's had a lesser impact on being bad. Now, if we put Boo into the equation, Boo is a re-occuring character in both spin-offs and series games, but more series. By now, every one knows Boos kill you if you touch them, so they're considered bad. If you feel that Birdo is bad, feel free to move her to enemies/bosses, because this article is a bit under the rain right now. Besides, their is also the possibility that the person who wrote that wasn't paying attention, and nobody is willing to fix it.

I don't think she's actually been portrayed as an enemy after her debut has she? Or at the very least not since appearing in Mario Tennis. UhHuhAlrightDaisy 23:15, 5 April 2011 (EDT)

That's my point. She's actually never really been portrayed as evil except in Doki Doki Panic and SMB2. By now, the younger generations have forgotten all about Birdo, and when they play as her in spin-offs, she has a good air around her. That's how I saw her when I first saw Birdo.

-- 16:09, 6 April 2011 (EDT)
 * In Mario and Luigi Superstar Saga she's an enemy. --Reversinator 16:13, 6 April 2011 (EDT)

But she's also an allie in that game to

Shouldnt Humans be listed on the species list
Shouldnt they i mean they make up like 85% of the main characters

Tatanga and Foreman Spike
Shouldnt they both be on this list they are reccuring bad guys and Foreman spike is playable in one game
 * One game?! Characters are for only main characters that appear in more than 5 games, (except for Rosalina).
 * And Wart. --Reversinator 09:00, 22 May 2011 (EDT)
 * Nope, these two are too minor, sorry. Remember, we don't want this page to have everything, just the really fundamental/major/iconic stuff (and it's actually getting a tad bloated already, if you ask me). - 15:56, 22 May 2011 (EDT)
 * Both are faily important also warts on this page and he's only in one game so why shouldnt two characters that have appeared in multiple games and have been final bosses. Also the only difference between Rosalina and foreman spike is that Rosilina has appeared in two better known games
 * Rosalina's appeared in three games, actually (two of which are flagship Super Mario games), and she's probably going to keep appearing (Nintendo loves adding mascots to the stable), meaning we'd have to add her eventually anyway. SMB2 also had a lot more impact than Wrecking Crew and Super Mario Land, although I personally would be fine with Wart being removed from this page (actually, I'd rather that be done than clutter things up with more one-hit wonders). - 16:11, 22 May 2011 (EDT)


 * That's what i was saying both have appeared in 3 games both have been playable in one game and both have played a big part in the other two, i also think it creatures like Gooper Blooper and Wart are on the list than Tatanga who played a huge part in Super Mario Land which was at one point the 3rd best selling Mario Game should also be on the list given his status as a main antagonist in both games and his appearance in the comics.
 * A lot of things are on the lists that I think shouldn't be; adding more only makes the problem worse. This page is too long - it contains an excess of info, which is bad when you're talking about series pages: they should only be a summary of the basics, while the more specialized articles deal with the more specific details. Wart, Gooper Blooper, Red Boo, Fly Guys, Snifits, Banzai Bills, Whomps, Rocky Wrenches, the Birdo species, Spikes, Mecha-Koopas, Freezies, and maybe even Piantas, Nokis, Penguins and Spike Tops can all be removed (things like Spike Tops, Snifits and Whomps can be mentioned in the sections of the things they derived from - i.e. Buzzy Beetles, Shy Guys and Thwomps). - 16:31, 22 May 2011 (EDT)
 * So are we removing them or are they staying in the article cause i think Gooper Blooper has to go he's not important at all to the series
 * We should probably wait for a bit more feedback before chopping out so much stuff. - 16:44, 22 May 2011 (EDT)
 * Um, Goomba's Shoe, your characters (Tatanga and Foreman Spike) have only appeared in 2 and 3 games respectively, while Gooper Blooper has appeared in 5 games. --YoshiMP8a.PNG SuperYoshiBros YoshiMP8a.PNG 16:46, 22 May 2011 (EDT)

You know who else has appeared in 5 games the Bib-Bob-Omb in fact he's appeared in 11 games and he's not on the list its about the quality of your apperances and being some random boss who shows in 1 main stream game and 4 spin offs shouldnt qualify him to be a main antagonist over Tatanga who acctually was the Main antagonist in his first game and a major boss in the other
 * You aren't paying attention. Tatanga is forgotten! Pretty much nobody knows about the Super Mario Land games and Wrecking Crew games. I'm sure if you hadn't told someone about SML or Wrecking Crew and you said "oh look I beat Tatanga" they would be all like "what are you talking about". --YoshiMP8a.PNG SuperYoshiBros YoshiMP8a.PNG 16:55, 22 May 2011 (EDT)

Yeah cause people are totally remeber the name of a giant squid from the Game Super Mario Sunshine or face it nobody cares about him he's a minor boss from two games who later appeares in a couple of spin off titles that doesnt qualify him to get put on the list of antagonists over an acctual antagonsit and that whole 5 games thing is garbage because other wise we'd be putting Big. Mr I on the list and the Big-Bob-Omb
 * Dude. You don't understand. We don't HAVE to put everyone who has had 5+ appearances on it. And this is for MAIN characters only, so Foreman Spike and Tatanga would definitely get reverted off. --YoshiMP8a.PNG SuperYoshiBros YoshiMP8a.PNG 17:50, 22 May 2011 (EDT)


 * That's bad and unfair. They can't even appear here. As for Wart, Glooper Blooper and others, it really is unfair.--Prince Ludwig 20:55, 31 May 2011 (EDT)
 * If we put every character in the series on this page, it would overflow and make the page humongous. And how are we being unfair to those characters? They are just a bunch of bits and bytes :/
 * I didn't know about Wikias with limits. That's impossible. O.o--Prince Ludwig 02:40, 1 June 2011 (EDT)

The list is good.Birdo(species) should be removed along with the sub-species Walkazo mentioned.

Mario Party
I notice that only Party 1 and 8 are here (and MP8 is apparently the NINTH even though it's MP EIGHT :S ). Shouldn't they all be here? Or if you're going for putting only the first one of this big series... why is eight here? Lair of Rockwhales 03:43, 1 June 2011 (EDT)

Prof. E. Gadd a main protagonist?
I was thinking that maybe Prof. E. Gadd could be considered one of the main protagonists, I mean he has appeared in numerous games from Luigi's Mansion, Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga, Mario Party 6, Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time, and now, Luigi's Mansion 2. Not only that, but he also plays a relatively large part in most of these games. As well, he also invented many important inventions, such as the Poltergust 3000, a staple of Luigi's abilities in spin-offs, F.L.U.D.D., and Bowser Jr.'s Magic Paintbrush, which is among one of his signature abilities that he uses in nearly every one of his spin-off appearances.


 * Now that you mention it, E. Gadd probably should be in there. He has had more game appearances and roles than Rosalina, and she is in the list. Also, remember to sign your comments with ~, which automatically produces your signature. I had to add the unsigned template for you. ThirdMarioBro: Mario,   Luigi,  and me! 22:20, 10 June 2011 (EDT)

Mario Spin-off Series
Shouldn't we add a Luigi's Mansion series page? Because there is a sequel to the first game?
 * Not until the game is released. 16:55, 13 June 2011 (EDT)

Super Mario Land games
I'm not sure exactly why these are listed as a subseries of the main series. I mean, sure, the games had a different director, but Yokoi was Miyamoto's mentor and oversaw the creation of Donkey Kong and Super Mario Bros. It's not as though he's a complete stranger to the series. The Capcom Zelda games are still considered part of the main series despite being made by a completely different developer. Gameplay-wise they still feel very much like they belong in the main series. Stonelikearock 01:56, 14 July 2011 (EDT)

Well, not only is Mario in a different kingdom, saving a different princess, and stomping on different enemies, but the Super Mario Land games eventually led to the beginning of the Wario Land series. Since the 3rd Super Mario Land is apparently the first Wario Land, and if the Super Mario Land series was apart of the Mario main series, then the Wario Land series will be apart of it too. MarioComix 02:51, 14 July 2011 (EDT)
 * Super Mario World takes place in a different kingdom and features many different enemies. Not only that, but it eventually branched off into the Yoshi series, starting with Super Mario World 2. Super Mario World is (rightfully) considered part of the main series. I don't see why the Mario Land games aren't. Stonelikearock 16:28, 14 July 2011 (EDT)
 * Yes, but unlike the Wario Land series the Yoshi's Island series has gradually intertwined into the Mario series, take Fly Guys, the Babies, Kamek, and lots of other elements introduced in the Yoshi's Island series that started appearing in the Mario series. However, elements from the Wario Land series (and the rest of the Wario series), like Capt. Syrup, have yet to be seen in a Mario series game. In fact, the only Mario game (to an extent) that includes Wario characters is Dr. Mario 64. As well, note the only elements from the Super Mario Land series lack many important elements of a Mario series game, namely Peach and Bowser, and even Toad for that matter. As well, many enemies in the series are completely unique, original, and new, and the bosses are too. MarioComix 22:30, 14 July 2011 (EDT)
 * Eh, I guess there is a slight difference there. It still seems a bit contradictory to me to include one and not the other when these two situations are so similar, but if that's what everyone has agreed upon I'm not one to try and stop it. Stonelikearock 23:05, 14 July 2011 (EDT)

Super mario land
If new upcoming title is Super mario 3D LAND shouldn't it be part of the mario land series i think we should change it
 * First, two things. 1. Put new sections at the bottom of the page. 2. Sign your posts. I believe that since the word "Land" is not next to "Mario", then technically it is not part of the Super Mario Land series.Jazama 18:02, 28 July 2011 (EDT)

Actually, it can't be part of the series as it is completely different and all the Mario Land games (including Wario Land as it said Super Mario Land 3 in the title) because they were all not in colour. Also, the Mario Land series turned into the Wario Land series and ended, and the elements in Super Mario 3D Land are normal elements from the Super Mario Bros. games with Peach and Bowser and Toad and the Mushroom Kingdom, completely seperating it from the Mario Land series.

Remakes
Would game remakes like Super Mario All-Stars and Super Mario 64 DS be part of the "main" Super Mario series? If so, then why aren't they shown on the Super Mario series section of this article? If not then what series do they belong to?

They're probably part of their own "remakes" group. (P.S. You forgot to sign your name.) MarioComix 14:46, 16 August 2011 (EDT)


 * Remakes are part of the original game's series: they're organized as such in History sections - when they're not simply mentioned in the original game's section. They're probably not here because there's actually a LOT of remakes (the Super Mario series has at least ten), and including them would muddle the nice lists. - 22:43, 16 August 2011 (EDT)

Luigi series?
Should there be a new section in Partner Series focused on Luigi? Luigi is the only playable character in Mario is Missing, Luigi's Mansion, and Luigi's Mansion 2.--Platform 13:14, 16 September 2011 (EDT)
 * No. Mario is Missing! has NOTHING to do with the Luigi's Mansion games and they should NOT be grouped together at all. The Luigi's Mansion games can have their own sub-series if people insist (I personally feel like series should have three or more titles before we start singling them out here, but I know others disagree and there's no rule against two-title series...), but it's definitely not enough to make an independent Luigi Partner Series. - 22:45, 16 September 2011 (EDT)
 * Lots of Yoshi, Wario, and DK games have nothing to do with each other internally as well. Luigi's Mansion can be a sub-series within a Luigi series.  Of course there are not many games with Luigi as sole protagonist so it might appear awkward for a three game series with two of them in one sub-series and with one dangling alone, but it's still within the rules.--Platform 05:37, 17 September 2011 (EDT)
 * But it hasn't been acknowledged by Nintendo as a separate series (i.e. with a separate emblem in Super Smash Bros.), and just because Luigi stars in Mario is Missing! doesn't make it a "Luigi" game - like how we're not making a whole series for Peach just because of Super Princess Peach, or one for Stanley the Bugman because of Donkey Kong 3, or one for Bowser because he was one of the playable characters in Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story (which, like MiM!, is part of a larger Mario sub-series; in MiM!'s case, it's with Mario's Time Machine). This issue has already been discussed and a previous attempt to establish a Luigi series was removed by the admins: inferring a relationship between games that have never been official linked (and which have nothing but one plot device in common anyway; no title similarities, no gameplay or genre overlap, not the same developers...) is just as bad as speculation, and will not be allowed on the wiki. - 19:20, 17 September 2011 (EDT)

Arrange
NO QUORUM 2-0

In Items, Objects and Species section, some kinds of Mushroom (Super Mushroom, 1-Up Mushroom, Poison Mushroom, etc.), Flowers (Fire Flower, Ice Flower), Coins (Coin, Red Coin), Blocks (? Block, Brick Block, ♪ Block), Goombas (Goomba, Paragoomba) and specially Koopas (Koopa Troopa, Buzzy Beetle, Magikoopa, False Bowser, Spiny, Hammer Bro., etc.), many are missing. So, I think we must separate them by larger groups (Koopas and Flowers, for example).

Proposer: Deadline: December 17, 2011, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) Per my proposal.
 * 2) - I agree. We should describe the whole thing, like the entire Koopa species, with links leading to the articles, where the reader could obtain specified information about the characters and enemies. Same with items.

WHAT?!

 * Why does this article have a rewrite-expand template on it? It doesn't need to be rewritten and there's nothing left to expand on! Is someone trying to make sure this article can't become a FA?M&amp;L Beware my fury! 21:53, 30 January 2012 (EST)
 * It's probably missing some games and it's inconsistent on which sports games it covers usually only covering the first and the latest
 * But I have seen nothing missing! No games and covers all games! I can't see anything that needs to be improved and I shall remove the rewrite-expand template if you can't give me an example soon.M&amp;L Beware my fury! 22:03, 30 January 2012 (EST)
 * No Info on the Game and Watch Games, Also the info on some of the games is lacking especially the Japanese only ones
 * That's because Game and Watch is not part of the main series. We don't have information on the DK or Yoshi series do we? No. And we don't have much information on the Japanese only games because they are only in Japan, and those people can't write in English to provide information and we can't provide information because even if we got the game we wouldn't understand a word of it.M&amp;L Beware my fury! 22:10, 30 January 2012 (EST)
 * They are part of the main series since they star Mario
 * Yeah, well I checked the article very closely and saw that there WAS info on the Game and Watch series, meaning that none of your examples are correct and the template is not needed.M&amp;L Beware my fury! 22:17, 30 January 2012 (EST)
 * I was referring to the games on the Game & Watch System
 * There isn't a system otherwise somebody would have listed it on this article. And actually, no systems are mentioned on this article.M&amp;L Beware my fury! 22:25, 30 January 2012 (EST)
 * There is a system called the Game & Watch there are multiple Mario games on the Game & Watch such as Mario the Juggler which is not on the article
 * But there are no other systems... why is the Game and Watch system so important that it deserves a mention, eh?M&amp;L Beware my fury! 22:29, 30 January 2012 (EST)
 * It's not the system that needs to be mentioned it's the games on that system all Mario games need to be mentioned and covered on this article and some like Mario the Juggler aren't and some aren't covered in enough detail (mainly the japan only ones) and it's irrelevant that it's only in Japanese because this page needs to cover everything in full
 * Well, maybe that's what the construction template is for. It's lower down, but I bet that's what it's for. We can remove it, though, as needing a rewrite would be construction. And why can't you add it or ask one of your friends to help you to cover all of that? I would help, but I've never heard of the series before I came to Super Mario Wiki. This page is not a FA, but people are voting on it. Fix it up so we can officially make this article a FA!M&amp;L Beware my fury! 22:35, 30 January 2012 (EST)
 * Because i don't know anything about those games other than the fact that they exist and therefore must be adequately covered on this page

You know they exist. JUST LIST THEM ON THE ARTICLE! Please. We need this done, and if someone can't do it, then maybe we should forget about them and just remove the templates (except for the nomination one) so this article can become a FA. I know it represents the wiki, but nobody knows about the Game and Watch series so we can't add it.M&amp;L Beware my fury! 22:41, 30 January 2012 (EST)
 * No they must have the same amount of coverage as every other game on this article you can't just say Mario the Juggler is a game for the Game & Watch
 * Now this article can never be a FA! Not like you helped or anything, though I suppose that since you didn't the Internet hasn't exploded, so maybe that's a good thing... on second thought, DON'T EDIT THIS ARTICLE!M&amp;L Beware my fury! 22:46, 30 January 2012 (EST)
 * Oh, and that thing you posted about it can't be just Mario the Juggler is a game for Game and Watch is something I would put! And P.S. I'm removing the templates.M&amp;L Beware my fury! 22:59, 30 January 2012 (EST)
 * Calm down. I won't erase the templates. There. Ya happy, 'cuz I ain't. Yer lucky I didn't delete 'em to save this article though, but since I'm a nice kinda guy... visit my talk page. Please. I need traffic! Some pages are busy, but mine, oh no, I only get visitors if I do something wrong. I appologize, though. See ya!M&amp;L Just because you&#39;re in red doesn&#39;t mean you&#39;re strong. Have at you! 23:13, 30 January 2012 (EST)
 * Even if you did erase the rewrite template i would just put them back on