Talk:Spiny Cheep Cheep

???? There are no Spiny Cheep Cheeps in Super Mario World. (trust me. I have beaten the game completely more than 3 times). The blue fish in the picture are from the Super Mario All Stars version of Super Mario Bros. 3. I don't know what the middle one is from, so I don't really know what I should make the article say. Red.Tide 21:30, 6 February 2007 (EST)


 * I agree on you with the fact that they're not in Super Mario World... Oh, and that middle sprite is from Super Mario Land 2: Six Golden Coins. --YellowYoshi398 21:35, 6 February 2007 (EST)


 * The blue ones are from Super Mario Bros. 3, not Super Mario World. -- Son of Suns


 * Okay, I'll edit it, saying they reappear in Super Mario Land 2. Red.Tide 21:09, 7 February 2007 (EST)

Cartoons
Did they appear in the Super Mario World cartoons? As it mentioned in the Mama Fireplant article.
 * Yes, but only in the episode "Fire Sale". 11:05, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Super Mario Land 2
I don't remember seeing those enemies in Super Mario Land 2, only a pufferfish-like enemy that acts differently. Where do Spiny Cheep-Cheeps appear? --Grandy02 17:12, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

They don't. [http://www.pimpmynintendo.com/nintendo-sprites/super-mario-land-2-6-golden-coins-sprites/ Right above the second Jaw. It is a pufferfish. New article please!


 * The info has been merged with Cheep-Cheep Pufferfish.


 * 22:29, 3 October 2012 (EDT)

Spiny Fish (Yoshi's Story)
Shouldn't that enemy be split? It looks nothing like a Spiny Cheep Cheep and even has its own name. 20:46, 17 April 2016 (EDT)

Split Spiny Fish from Spiny Cheep Cheep
As said above, this enemy looks virtually nothing like a Spiny Cheep Cheep. Its official name is even different, and it implies that this enemy is different altogether from other Cheep Cheeps. While you could make a case with Flopsy Fish and Cheep Cheep being the same, at least Flopsy Fish has the appearance to back it up. Here, the enemy has virtually no resemblance to the subject's article. They probably even have different behaviors as well, as there is no mention of them chasing after Yoshi like how Spiny Cheep Cheeps do.

Proposer: Deadline: May 2, 2016, 23:59 GMT

Split

 * 1) As a guy who's played Yoshi's Story countless many times, I can say that these Spiny Fish don't actually chase Yoshi, they swim back and forth. Also for the record, I'd still back up that Flopsy Fish are different from Cheep-Cheeps, but that's for another discussion. For now, I agree with this proposal.
 * 2) Per both.
 * 3) Per all 3.
 * 4) - Per all.
 * 5) Per all.
 * 6) . Per all.
 * 7) Per all.
 * 8) Mario (franchise) and Yoshi (series) tend to be different series so it shouldn't be surprising if enemies differ greatly and we ended up lumping them into the same page by mistake.
 * 1) Mario (franchise) and Yoshi (series) tend to be different series so it shouldn't be surprising if enemies differ greatly and we ended up lumping them into the same page by mistake.

Keep merged

 * 1)  I don't really think the different English name proves much, considering the inconsistent translations in Yoshi's Story. On top of that, Cheep Cheeps have had drastic one-time redesigns before, I don't see how this is any different.

Comments
Hey, this is actually the result of a previous proposal on the Spiny Fish talk page a little while back, and now it seems we're having different users weighing in. The first rationale is that it must be like Gabon/Spike/Mace Penguin (among a few other enemies that lacked consistency in this period), and then research supported that by showing their official names are identical in Japan. I was mostly ambivalent to it at the time since I thought both sides made decent points, but the same scan proved useful for classifying the plain fish as Cheep Cheep as well as reorganizing the Blurps. I guess my main concern is that a re-split may devalue that particular source, and those changes could potentially be prone to being undone later on. Another thing to keep in mind is that the behavior difference doesn't apply here: up to that point, Spiny Cheep Cheep were very rare enemies that appeared in only one level and moved about in a generic manner; the same applies to “Spiny Fish”, so I'd say the primary factors are appearance and the label on the old English website (which, to be fair, isn't the most consistent). At the very least, the unlocalized Togepuku (トゲプク) indicates that they are still derivatives of Cheep Cheep (プクプク), which this game's translators appear to have mistaken with the similar Blurp (ブクブク)...which, come to think of it, is probably the exact reason they weren't called Spiny Cheep Cheep on that site. Sure, their appearance differs, but so does the Cheep Cheep itself. With that in mind, and considering the enemy's relative obscurity, the question then becomes whether or not the designers consciously had that Togepuku in mind when creating this Togepuku. Unfortunately, there's no good way of being certain of that at this juncture, though I'm slightly inclined to believe it wasn't coincidental. LinkTheLefty (talk) 22:10, 19 April 2016 (EDT)
 * Well, the Cheep Cheeps in Yoshi's Story still had the same color scheme and a similarish appearance to Cheep Cheeps in their base games. Here, the Spiny Fish barely looks anything like a Spiny Cheep Cheep, aside from the fact that both are fish and both are spiky, and they don't move exactly like Cheep Cheeps. We could still say they're derivatives of Cheep Cheep species and have the same Japanese name, but I'm on the side where their names could be coincidental. Still, you made pretty good points to keep in mind. 14:21, 20 April 2016 (EDT)

LinktheLefty: It's good that you cited the historical context behind Spiny Fish and Spiny Cheep Cheep, so I guess the point on behavior is moot. As for similar Japanese names, well, it's not the deciding point between a split and a merge, but it makes for good support. I think there isn't a lot of sufficient evidence to say one thing or the other, but assuming the Spiny Fish is a different species from the Spiny Cheep Cheep makes fewer assumptions about consistency and developer intent in my opinion. The Spiny Cheep Cheep is arguably more different from the Spiny Fish than the Cheep Cheep is from the Blurp. Yeah, the 3D renders from Yoshi's Story are weird, but you'd think that if they would make a spiky version of a Cheep Cheep, they'd go with the Blurp design and just add spikes to them. 18:45, 20 April 2016 (EDT)
 * Cheep Cheep designs have been pretty inconsistent, though. Niiue (talk) 19:30, 24 April 2016 (EDT)
 * As I said, you'd think they'd just take the Cheep Cheep design in Yoshi's Story and added spikes to it to make it a Spiny Cheep Cheep. The problem is the inconsistency in one game, not the span of a series. 16:24, 25 April 2016 (EDT)

@Niiue: Spiky Fish also don't act the same as Spiny Cheep-Cheeps so there's another notable difference between the two other than the naming.
 * If you look at LinktheLefty's comment, it might not be a valid point for the behavior difference. 14:50, 28 April 2016 (EDT)

Should this split have happened?
"Spiny Fish" is indeed quite different-looking than Spiny Cheep-Cheep. But not as much different than Spiked Fun Guy in that game looks from how it should. And the "spiny Fish" is still far more similar than the pufferfish enemy from Super Mario Land 2. I think that if the Yoshi's Story one s split based off of differences such as that, then it should as well. Unless of course the Japanese name for "Spiny Fish" is one of those ambiguously-legit-or-not ones Tail added. 1:22, 8 June 2017 (CT)
 * For the record, the Japanese name is confirmed. The articles were split because Spiny Fish having a different appearance was considered important (even though regular Cheep Cheeps in YS don't really resemble their main-series counterparts either...). Niiue (talk) 02:27, 8 June 2017 (EDT)


 * OK. Well, again, it's at least recognizable as a fish, unlike Spiked Fun Guy in that game in comparison to its normal form, which looks more like a purple gummy bear sea anemone with dragon feet and big lips than any sort of cactus. The character models used for the graphics in that game were honestly quite baffling. 1:30, 8 June 2017 (CT)


 * Anyways, due to all of the various design choices the Yoshi games had, I propose that this be re-opened to re-merging. There's been a lot of unnecessary splitting here, with the Paper Mario Big Boos and the Missile/Bullseye Bills of Yoshi's Island (only used in Advance 3). All it does is make navigation a pain, especially to those with poor bandwidth that takes 45 minutes to switch between pages. - 4:36, 12 June 2017 (CT)