Talk:Pirate Guy

Where did the name 'Pirate Guy' come from? Is it from a guide? Vent (talk) 19:05, 27 October 2014 (EDT)

I thought it might come from the crabby ol' Yoshi's Story minisite, but nope. And now I really wish there was an online scene for scanning strategery guides. --Glowsquid (talk) 19:27, 27 October 2014 (EDT)

Scope of this article
This article has "everything but the kitchen sink" syndrome; only the Yoshi's Island DS enemy is confirmed to have this name, and it has a distinct appearance: white outfit with a bandana of a varying singular color. However, instead of limiting it to just that, this wiki considers "Pirate Guy" to be a catch-all term for any Shy Guy in pirate garb, including: Just like with Aqua Kuribō and Goomdiver or Putrid Piranha and Poison Piranha Plant, conceptual similarity between these subjects does not make them all the same thing. There is no doubt in my mind that this should be split. The only question is exactly how to split it. 17:14, June 30, 2021 (EDT)
 * The Yoshi's Story enemies, which appearance-wise are just normal Shy Guys wearing blue-and-orange striped bandanas (or a pirate hat in the case of what is presumably their captain) that attack from a pirate ship in the background. They also have a different Japanese name.
 * The Mario Kart enemies from Shy Guy Beach, which have no confirmed name in Japanese or English but are pretty similar to the Yoshi's Story ones, though their bandanas are plain blue and they fire cannonballs instead of Bob-ombs.
 * The Shy Guys from Shy Guy Says and Flagging Rights in the Mario Party series, which are only ever called "Shy Guy." The one from the first Mario Party wears a full pirate outfit, while the ones from 8, Top 100, and Superstars only have a hat.
 * I've never played any of games listed here, so I may not know this situation too well, but if the Yoshi's Story and Yoshi's Island DS version behave similarly, then they could remain the same article. As for the Mario Party and Mario Kart ones, if the games treat them like regular Shy Guys, then they could be merged into the main Shy Guy article. 20:10, June 30, 2021 (EDT)
 * To my understanding, Yoshi’s Island DS’s Pirate Guys act just like regular Shy Guys under a different appearance and name; the premise set by this game is that they’re not that distinct of an entity from their base species to begin with, and other appearances of pirate-clad Shy Guys don’t really support or counter that stance either way. I’d say either we keep this article as it is since the subject is named and differentiated in the Yoshi’s Island DS guides, or merge it entirely with Shy Guy on the basis that there’s nothing to disprove Pirate Guys in all games are not the Shy Guys of yore. 21:30, June 30, 2021 (EDT)
 * I think a linked issue to this is the Shy Guy Ship and Shy Guy Galleon pages. I feel the YS and related appearances, along with Shy Guy Ship, should be merged to the Shy Guy Galleon page. The other non-YIDS stuff can be made a trivia point. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 01:05, July 1, 2021 (EDT)

Clean up this article
See the above discussion. Pirate Guy is only the name of an enemy from Yoshi's Island DS, but this article rambles on about every time Shy Guys have ever been seen in pirate clothes, including the Mario Party ones which are only ever called Shy Guys, not treating them as a distinct entity, making this wiki's classification of them as Pirate Guys speculative at best.

There are multiple options for cleaning this up, based on commenters' suggestions and my own:
 * Option 1: Merge Yoshi's Story and Mario Kart content with Shy Guy Galleon, merge Mario Party content with Shy Guy: The Shy Guy Galleon article currently only covers the Shy Guy Beach ship, but the YS one very similar to it. Though the ship's design is different, the Shy Guys on board look similar and it shares the MK one's schtick of launching stuff at the player from the background (Bob-ombs in Story, cannonballs in Kart).
 * Option 2: Split Story content to, merge Kart content with Shy Guy Galleon, merge Party content with Shy Guy: Similar to the above, but splits the YS to its own article under its unique Japanese name.
 * Option 3: Merge with Shy Guy entirely: From what I understand, Pirate Guys in Yoshi's Island DS actually behave identically to regular Shy Guys, with the only distinction being their outfit, and they are only named by guides. Given that and the lack of a real source for the other games' Shy Guy pirates being anything but Shy Guys in a specific role, so we could just merge the thing outright.
 * Option 4: Leave as is: Self-explanatory.

Proposer: Deadline: July 18, 2021, 23:59 GMT

Option 1: Merge all non-YIDS content with other articles

 * 1) Per proposal.
 * 2) Yeah, you do bring up a good point.
 * 3) This article feels more like a “here’s every time a shy guy looked like a pirate” article rather than a “Here’s info about the actual named pirate guy enemy” article and it definitely needs some level of merging.
 * 4) Per my comment in the section above.
 * 5) Per what I said before.
 * 6) Although the ship in Yoshi's Story isn't given a specific name in the player's guide, the functions between the it and the Shy Guy Galleon are similar enough.
 * 7) I agree with this one the most. I know the Shy Guy in Shy Guy Says is never referred to as "Pirate Guy", which would make more sense of it being a Shy Guy who just thought pirates were in that year. That being said, if it's referred to as a Shy Guy, merging that stuff with the Shy Guy article makes sense.

Option 2: Split Story content to Kaizokusen Heihō, merge Kart and Party content with other articles

 * 1) Per proposal.
 * 2) Since Pirate Guy from Yoshi's Island DS is being split for a different name and appearance, I feel it makes sense to treat the Yoshi's Story Pirate Guys the same way. I also feel it's strange to say that we should split up the Pirate Guy article because the similar pirate Shy Guys it covers differ slightly, but merge all of the Shy Guy pirate ships for being similar despite their differences.
 * 3) Per Hewer, option 1 seems too inconsistent.

Comments
The Nintendo Official Guidebook of Mario Kart: Super Circuit names the Shy Guy Galleon 「海賊船」on page 30, the same name is used by the Nintendo Official Guidebook of Mario Kart Wii on page 172. With that being said, the name is pretty generic, so I'm not sure it could be used as a proof for the merge, especially considering how the appearance of the two ships is different.--Mister Wu (talk) 18:30, July 9, 2021 (EDT)
 * Considering SS's other "beach" course had Story style Cheep Cheeps, I doubt it's a coincidence, just a design simplification for the smaller res that MKW then based off from. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 19:03, July 9, 2021 (EDT)
 * I'm not sure what you're saying. "MKSC ship vs. "MKWii ship" is not even being discussed. It's the Yoshi's Story ship that's up for debate for having a different design and stuff. The MKWii one is not different from the MKSC one at all aside from updated graphics, and it's part of a remake of the MKSC track to begin with, so the possibly of there not being a connection between the two is nonexistent. 19:07, July 9, 2021 (EDT)
 * With two ships I was referring to the Yoshi Topsy-Turvy Shy Guy Ship (that has the very same Japanese name) and the Mario Kart one. We can then of course also put the Yoshi's Story one in the comparison as the name is similar (it doesn't use Kanji but that's understandable in a Nintendo 64 game) and the role is similar as well (but again even the Mario Kart: Super Circuit sprite is actually very detailed and clearly different from the Yoshi's Story ship).--Mister Wu (talk) 19:55, July 9, 2021 (EDT)
 * I personally believe the YTT thing is the same concept (considering the game's YS basis), just with a different gimmick for the gameplay. But we can cross that bridge later. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 19:58, July 9, 2021 (EDT)