Talk:List of references in video games

Expect me to add many more sightings to this page soon. --Sml007.5 21:09, 3 October 2006 (EDT)

Megaman ZX
In Megaman ZX, there are two boys that look alot like Mario and Luigi. Is it okay if I point that out?

Having not played the game, I can't say for certain how much they look like Mario and Luigi, but if you think the similarity is significant enough, you can add it in as a cameo.


 * I wouldn't realy call it a cameo, but I can show you a picture. [[Image:Mario ZX.PNG]] Yo yo mom


 * Hmm... They have the correct statures, colors, and even wear overalls... I'd say they count.

Dr. Mario reference in sequel to Brain Age
in the Japan/Europe- exclusive sequel, I think there is a Dr. Mario-style minigame in it what should i call the game. Brain age 2?

Thanks in advance, Ninja_Lucario

What the!?
I think User:Smashfan should be blocked cuz he added a youtube video on something other than his talkpage!

This article is a mess, that's all I have to say. First of all, Toad's line "Thank you Mario" line is not in Big Brain Academy but Brain Age. Second, SSX on Tour and Nintendo Village are linked to, but they redirect to this exact same page. Third, the Animal Crossing: Wild World items (or at least some of them) also appeared in the original AC, and are never even specified. Fourth, The Simpsons: Hit & Run's mention does not specify what the "switch place" means, or even what Mario game it's from.

I'd go on, but I'm wasting my breath. We really need to clean this place up. --Dodoman

I'll stick on a rewrite template. 01:29, 30 July 2007 (EDT)

Dodoman, it actually is in, but you'd need to have played the game almost daily to have seen it, which I do. :) The minigame "Syllable Count" uses short cute mantras such as "Don't make me turn this car around!" and part of the Declaration of Independence. One of the weirder mentions is "Thank you, Mario, but our princess is in another castle!" As a side note, the professor note that the phrases he's chosen are all very strange.  The phrases change daily, so you only have a slight chance of seeing it if you only play Syllable Count every once in a while.  I do so once every three days.  18:14, 20 October 2007 (EDT)

What kind of order?
I would like to add a visual sighting, but I don't know at which position, because I can't see a logical order. Are the sightings ordered in some way? --Grandy02 13:26, 22 September 2007 (EDT)
 * No, but there should be, perhaps in alphabetical order? And while we're at it, we should get rid of the chart formatting; that way we won't have to deal with those super-stretched and hard-to-read sections like Animal Crossing or the "Resquested Image(s)". - Walkazo

Nintendo Village/SSx Tour
Should have their own articles...
 * Based on what we've done for ISDS and Mario & Sonic, we would have articles for every character in that game, and NBA Street as well... at the bare minimum articles about the games. 00:55, 26 June 2008 (EDT)

Mortal Kombat
Mario is a custom character,right?

Mortal Kombat is teh shizznit. □R.O.B. 128□ 23:01, 29 October 2008 (EDT)


 * I don't think we're supposed to count user-made content. Pikawil 08:29, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Bully
In the game Bully: Scholarship Edition (I don't own the original and I don't know if the reference is in that one) a character says randomly while walking along "I have yet to become a moustashioed plumber", is this a clear enough reference to Mario to be included?- Zedxclon
 * I believe it was Algie saying "I don't get why some people say video games affect us as I have yet to become a mustachio'd plumber."--GoldenGoomba900 12:49, 18 June 2009 (EDT)

Mirror's Edge
There's a secret Achievement in this game called "Hey,it's-a-Me!".Dose this count as a reference?

Alleyway
Alleyway shouldn't be on this list because it is a Mario game. Should I delete it?

Animal Crossing 1 up
In animal crossing wild world, if the player hits a special rock with a shovel, bells will come out, when the fourth bell bag comes out, it'll make the same sound as when Mario gets an extra life in SMB, should I mention that?

Scribble"nots"
In the Scribblenauts game, the Weegee thing is just one of the memes in the game, along with "keyboard cat," "om nom nom nom," and "all your base are belong to us." It is a reference to the Internet, not Mario.
 * But Weegee originated from Luigi A.K.A. the Mario series. I'm pretty sure I explained that, though.
 * The item "mason" looks like Luigi!

SBCG4AP
In the fifth episode of the game "Strong Bad's Cool Game For Attractive People" there's a reference to the original Donkey Kong. At one point in the game the real world and the video game world get fused together and many characters think that they are characters from video games from the company Videlectrix. The Character Marzipan, who was helping another character, Bubs, fix up his concession stand thinks she is "Lady Crate Ape". She climbs on top of the stand, jumps a few times to knock over the scaffolding around the stand, and begins throwing crates around.
 * Don't be shy. You don't need to mention it on the talk page. Just add it to the article.

SSX on Tour
Where the hell is SSX on Tour??!!!
 * I removed it.
 * Why? --
 * When I removed it, I planned to create an article for it. But seeing how great a job I did for the other article, I didn't create it.
 * Well if you didn't create it then put the information back. --

Rewrite
Compared to the other articles, this one needs to be rewriten, or at least edited to make it look more like a true article. Can someone with a little more time on their hands do this. If not, I'll try to find the time to do it myself.--LuigiBros64
 * This is a LIST, not a regular article.

Formating
Some of the images are misplaced. Can somebody fix them?
 * Done. --King Bean (talk ~ contribs) 10:40, 1 May 2010 (EDT)

Scott Pilgrim vs. The World licensed game
It could potentially be another fat section in the list... Pikawil 08:29, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Their band name, right?--Holyromanemperortatan 19:21, 5 May 2011 (EDT)

What the!
I think User:SmashFan should be blocked cuz he added a youtube video on something other then his userpage!


 * You should have removed it. And users don't get blocked straight away when they do stuff like that - they get a reminder or warning first.

Oh sorry.I forgot.T_T--User:UltraMario3000

Capcom Puzzle World(PSP)
O.K. I just found this while flipping through my cheat code book, anyway I have never played the game but one of the codes is called Super Buster Bros. If anyone has the game it says "At the main menu, highlight Tour Mode, hold the Down button and press X. So anyone with the game, please try it out, but just from the name I can tell it's a reference.--Mr. 8-bit

Seriously,does ANYONE have this game? -- 11:05, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Ace Attorney Investigations 1?
Is a character saying 'Badger GET' (mocking 'shine get') enough to be put on the list?
 * Well, the Ace Attorney series is known for its numerous references, but I think this one would be a little too vague. I am ready to be persuaded otherwise, though. - 19:20, 1 April 2011 (EDT)

Split Densetsu no Stafy 3 from Video game references
Captain Rainbow, Alleyway, Pinball, Art Style: PiCTOBiTS, Tetris DS. We have articles on these games simply because characters from the Mario series have major roles in those games. So why not Densetsu no Stafy 3 (for some reason translated on the wiki as The Legend of Stafy 3, even though the game never had an official english translation)? From what I can understand (which honestly is not much since I never actually played the game and there's only one video of Wario in DnS3), Wario talks with Stafy, travels with Stafy for a while, and appears in a few levels with Stafy. Hey, if Captain Rainbow has an article because of Birdo's appearance in the game, then I don't see why this game shouldn't have article because of Wario's appearance.

Proposer: Deadline: May 19, 2011, 23:59 GMT

Split

 * 1) Per my proposal.
 * 2) i agree completly with him just like Captain Rainbow
 * 3) Per Reversinator.
 * 4) Per comments.
 * 5) I never thought about that.It does deserve an article if captain rainbow and even super smash bros stuff that is un-mario related gets one.
 * 6) - Per Reversinator. Consistency is good.
 * 7) Per proposal
 * 8) Per Reversinator.
 * 9) – Just read your proposal on Talk:Starfy and I agree with this split as long as that article will me merged into this prospective split.
 * 10) per all.
 * 11) - Per him, per her, per all!

Comments
I just need to know descriptivly, what does Wario do in the game?
 * From what I understand, he helps Starfy throughout all of World 8 by attacking enemies and the like. --Reversinator 16:29, 5 May 2011 (EDT)

@Knife: The Starfy article is for the character Starfy. The info about Wario really doesn't belong there. Also, seeing as that Captain Rainbow is a crossover, all the main characters should get articles, like we did with Super Smash Bros. and Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games. --Reversinator 16:25, 5 May 2011 (EDT)

Minecraft
So I was playing Minecraft, playing with painting, when all of a sudden…

…this popped up as one of the paintings. I'm pretty sure that it's 100m painting from the first Donkey Kong. Can I add it as a reference?

Cameos at NinDB.net
Here there are a lot of informations --   Sfavillotto (talk) 06:06, 10 January 2012 (EST)

iOS Apps
I don't think these should be listed, there are countless clones of Mario platformers on the App Store (Soosiz, Super World Adventures, Monino)...the list is endless. If we do decide to keep them, theres gonna be quite the list + they aren't really references, just copying a type of gameplay with usage of similar sound effects, sprites, layout, etc.

I also just got an app today called iPredict and one of my fortunes was "You will save the princess from the final castle and the Mushroom Kingdom will rejoice!" --Superluigirules 15:54, 9 February 2012 (EST)

Tekken?
OK I just went on the E3 website and saw a screenshot of Tekken Tag Tournament 2 and it had MEGA MUSHROOMS in it? This is considered a reference, right? I'm really confused as to why they're there... :/


 * Never mind, I saw it in the video preview in the E3 video.

About the last one...
Uhhh guys... That "Koopa" from Zodathingy does NOT look like a Koopa!!!! -sincerely GoombaWithArms


 * It resembles a Koopa from the original Mario Bros. games (especially Mario Bros. 3), so yes, it is intended as a reference.

Earthworm Jim
I wanted to upload a screenshot of the DK head in Earthworm Jim, but I just joined and don't have upload privileges. Someone wanna upload this? http://s1-02.twitpicproxy.com/photos/full/626973764.png?key=961448 -Milo
 * did it. --Glowsquid (talk) 20:50, 29 July 2012 (EDT)

nintendogs + cats References
In the sequel to Nintendogs on the 3DS, you can get special windup Mario, Yoshi, and Peach karts from Mario Kart 7. Also, the present you get on Father's Day this year was a Luigi hat with the description saying it is "perfect for mustachioed younger bros." In addition, the player can also buy a Mario-themed house, a Koopa Troopa chair, a mushroom table set, and a TV featuring dogs with Mario Bros. hats can all be bought. Can somebody please add this? Mario3D64 (talk) 19:24, 24 August 2012 (EDT)

larryboy
in the GBA version of LarryBoy and the Bad Apple, one of the levels is based off of the 25m stage of Donkey KOng 24.208.13.231 (talk)

Tomodachi Collection
Can someone who owns either Tomodachi Collection or Tomodachi Collection: New Life confirm whether they include Mario references? In Nintendo Directs for Tomodachi Collection: New Life, Satoru Iwata presents from a Nintendo-themed room, but does anyone know if these games include more Nintendo references? GBAToad (talk) 16:14, 18 May 2013 (EDT)

Densetsu no Stafy 3
A previous TPP proposed to split Densetsu no Stafy 3 from this article. The edits haven't been done, so I open this section to get "attention" raise awareness. 16:50, 19 May 2013 (EDT)
 * We should put it in the main proposals page. 00:50, 28 May 2013 (EDT)

Mario reference in Terraria
In Terraria, there is a set of clothes known as the plumber set. The clothes represent Mario's clothes.

Animal Crossing
The thing about Rover calling Nook and impersonating Mario is false. Rover was impersonating Alfonso the crocodile. Should we remove this?


 * Alfonso himself is a reference to Mario, so it amounts to the same thing. 16:54, 1 April 2014 (EDT)

More references
Some new references at Mario & Co in apps...
 * Angry Birds Epic: A enemy is really similar to Mario! It wears a red cap and holds a cannon (the cannon isn't a ref) covered with normal mushrooms. And the pig has got mustaches, so it's clearly a ref.
 * Dargon Story: Following habitats are clearly a ref to the siganture Special Cup's course, Rainbow Road: Rainbow Road (obviously) and Rainbow Skyway. Those (or something like this) are the descriptions. RR: "Is that Gold that Rainbow reptlies hide at the end of the road?" - RS: "Rainbow dragon spend time on the ground, but they prefer racing among the clouds.". Even if they are clearly refs, I'll wait to add them for listening to your opinion (if someone ever reads this, I can see a talk template above) World   of   Tsunami!

Hatsune Miku -Project DIVA-
SEGA's Hatsune Miku -Project DIVA- F a sign will occasionally make a reference to infamous line Thank you, Mario! But our Princess is in another Castle!" The parody is "Thank you, Miku! But our Diva is in another stage!" Must be a goodwill shout-out from SEGA... Will somebody add this please? By the way, where can I find the signature button on this thing?

Plants vs Zombies 2: It's About Time
What do you think, guys? "The bullet that Coconut Cannon shoots for its Costumed Plant Food ability in the Chinese version looks exactly like the Banzai Bill from the Super Mario series." Screenshot: http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20141106173757/plantsvszombies/images/a/a4/COCONUTCOSTUMEBULLET.png 80.50.140.58 08:28, 7 November 2014 (EST)

FNaF World
The Puppet (and possibly his Phantom counterpart), who are Phanto similarities are confirmed to be in a game called FNaF World. See it here. WeHatePoisonMushrooms66 (talk) 15:00, 2 October 2015 (EDT)

Mario Mash-up Pack (Minecraft)
Maybe should we make a list of reskined items, enemies and other things? Some things are to obvious, but some of them are recognized only by the hardcore fans. And maybe add a list, which games were referenced on the theme map?

Tetris DS
See Talk:Tetris DS. -- 17:50, 23 May 2016 (EDT)

Split Article
is unruly and excessive with ~200 sections! My talk pages don't exceed 100! I think this page needs to be split into more manageable articles. This is something that policy would definitely support, but how to organize. I'm thinking by system. For systems like PC, PS4, etc., that can be its own article. This division could use tweaks or refinements if there is still large cluster(s) remaining. Gallery:Mario had this done via proposal. I think this article should be too. There's room for discussion for further ways to divide besides system. I'm not opposed to the idea.

Here's a page to keep in mind: Special:LongPages

Proposer: Deadline: April 15, 2017, 23:59 GMT

Split by System

 * 1) Per Proposal.
 * 2) Per proposal.

Split by ABC Order

 * 1) Per Proposal.
 * 2) Splitting it into groups of letters in four groups: A-D, E-M, N-S & T-Z would work better to me. For example: if somebody was looking for a Mario reference in the Crash Bandicoot franchise, they would go to, or if they were looking for a Mario reference in the Pikmin series, they would go to . List of Mario references in video games would be re-purposed into a page similar to Gallery:Mario & Gallery:Super Mario Maker, with it listing each of the individual pages that it was split up into (and possibly a section from each page, I don't think that's necessary).
 * 3) Splitting by first and third party just seems too vague; besides, some video games could be developed by both a first and third party developer, and splitting both pages would lead to a conflict as to which sections go on what page. By browsing alphabetically, users can easily jump to a section on a particular page and not have to know whether a game is Nintendo-made or third party or both.

Split by 1st and 3rd Party

 * 1) Per Proposal.
 * 2) I like the Nintendo/third-party split talked about below. I feel like that would work best.
 * 3) Per my comments below.
 * 4) Per all.
 * 5) Per all.
 * 6) per all.
 * 7) Yeah, the article is pretty crowded. Per all.
 * 8) This one seems to make the most sense based on the topic at hand. Per all.
 * 9) Per all.
 * 10) Per all.
 * 11) I was originally going to vote for the Split by System one, but Wildgooespeeder's comment below, about multi-platform games, convinced me to go with this one. But one of the resulting articles will probably still be pretty long. We may have to find a way to split that too.
 * 12) Per all, especially what Ultimate Mr. L said about another split.

Split by Some Other Method

 * 1) Per Proposal.

Comments
To clarify this somewhat, when you say "For systems like PC, PS4, etc., that can be its own article." do you mean each of those systems gets their own article, or that they're all lumped together in a single article? I was thinking it like: Nintendo console releases, other console and PC releases, and mobile game releases. And what of multiplatform games? SmokedChili (talk) 04:17, 31 March 2017 (EDT)
 * I meant group those into one. I don't know how many of each for non-Nintendo consoles. Like this but not limited to:
 * DS
 * Wii
 * Wii U
 * 3DS
 * PC/Sony/Microsoft/SEGA
 * -- 18:43, 1 April 2017 (EDT)

How about splitting by Nintendo and non-Nintendo-published titles (i.e., (or "third-party games"))? I counted and there's about 40 sections that are Nintendo games/series, comprising nearly half of the page, especially since some of them (e.g. the Zelda and Animal Crossing series) have split off into more subsections, taking up more room. There are a lot of games that are multiplatform, which would create potential redundancy of information if we were to split by console. So would a Nintendo/third-party split be a good idea? Or would they still be too long? 05:03, 31 March 2017 (EDT)
 * I think a Nintendo/third-party split is the most reasonable. -- 06:05, 31 March 2017 (EDT)
 * That's a pretty good option. -- 18:43, 1 April 2017 (EDT)
 * I have a possible tweak for this option. Would Bayonetta 2 or Tekken Tag Tournament 2: Wii U Edition or Project Zero 2: Wii Edition be considered Nintendo/first-party, or non-Nintendo/third-party? Literally, they're third party, maybe Platinum Games is second party in the specific case of Bayonetta 2. But I think what readers will care about is whether the reference is part of an official tie-in or sensible because of being on a Nintendo platform, versus mere pop culture references, or visual homages that would never trigger copyright concerns. Possibly, this could result in three divisions:
 * References in first-party Nintendo games, like Zelda and Animal Crossing
 * References made with the implicit approval of Nintendo as a tie-in or exclusive, like Bayonetta 2, Ace Combat, The Twin Snakes and Snake Eater 3D, and Tekken Tag Tournament 2
 * References of the general sort, like Crash Bandicoot or some PlayStation Trophies or Xbox Achievements mentioning Italian plumbers
 * Not that those three categories would require three separate pages, but maybe the first two could go in two sections in one page, and the third in another page. But also, I guess some first-party Nintendo games make references more like the third variety than the second variety. Eh, my approach opens up the possibility of many fuzzy lines rather than clear delineations. But it's an idea or two. FiveSparklyStars (talk) 06:48, 2 April 2017 (EDT)
 * I also thought of a fault with splitting ~200 sections into two. We would still have ~100 each article (ideally). What if the balance turns out to be 75:125 or 50:150? Then we still have a problem that we made slightly better. -- 16:58, 2 April 2017 (EDT)

I actually thought of a fault for "by system". What if the game is multi-platform? -- 18:43, 1 April 2017 (EDT)

Override Previous Proposal Outcome for List of Mario references in video games Split
Through sysop approval, they agreed to override the decision of the previous outcome despite rule #7. See User talk:Alex95.

Split by 1st and 3rd Party was the agreed upon outcome, but there are a few unforeseen challenges that await from making this an easy transition, that I addressed, but were never replied to. I don't think that people were informed enough about the potential ramifications of doing such a split. Ideally, splitting an article that is 100,000+ characters long with MediaWiki markup into 2 50,000+ character articles sounds good in theory, but it might not work out that way in practice. Here's the rundown why I think this will cause unnecessary maintenance: Something that came up during the voting period and that was to split by ABC order. I really liked this overlooked option because it has several advantages: I think this will be a better way to approach splitting a list like this. This proposal is about confirming if we really want to go through with the extra effort at this time or not.
 * 1) Manual sorting what is 1st and 3rd party since all the titles are mixed.
 * 2) Because this page will be split into two, there is still a chance the split still results in an article that is over 100,000 characters long or is still unreasonably high. This would go against policy as we ended up not getting very far. This also applies to header counts and rendered page length, possibly creating an unbalanced ratio, like a page with 50 headers in one page and 150 headers in another.
 * 3) Because of reason #2, this could make maintenance harder to transition to a different splitting method if the winning split method fails to keep pages reasonably sized.
 * 4) If one page ends up being too long anyways, splitting further could make overall organization of the splits very hard to navigate and understand.
 * 1) The list is already sorted by ABC order. Splitting is easy.
 * 2) Because more than two page splits are occuring, this means the chance of an article being too long are much less.
 * 3) If splitting games into 26 articles is too many splits, we can just split pages by grouping letters into one page, like, , , etc..
 * 4) If one group of letters for a subpage is too long compared to another, moving individual letters to a different page is easy. Structured organization isn't compromised and doesn't suffer.

Proposer: Deadline: May 29, 2017, 23:59:59 GMT

Override Previous Decision with ABC Order Split

 * 1) - Per proposal
 * 2) Per the reasons why I stuck with this decision in the first place. By sorting alphabetically, the page would provide a more newbie-friendly disambiguation. Furthermore, some games have both first and third-party developers (considering that, while Nintendo did most of the work on Mario Kart 7, Retro Studios also helped with the development process). PS: Perhaps having thirteen pages (AB, CD, EF, GH, etc.) seems most reasonable.
 * 3) Per TtA.
 * 4) Per all, I think this is the most sensible and simple idea.

Proceed with Original Proposal Outcome

 * 1) - This is the option I voted for last time. Regardless of how this proposal turns out, the pages will still be long, and an uneven ratio will happen between them anyway.
 * 2) - Alphabetical Order is an extremely messy way to organize basically anything. Much neater to use actual categories that have an actual definition.
 * 3) Per 3D Player 2010. Splitting by alphabet is confusing for people who are not MarioWiki experts and are browsing the site looking for information, but splitting by first/third party would make a lot of sense for them. Splitting by alphabet is very difficult to mantain.
 * 4) Per all. While the original outcome would create long pages, it would still be better than what we have now. I feel that it would also be messier to separate them by alphabetical order, as there would be many more pages created, and they would be very uneven and difficult to navigate, especially if one of the letters ends up being split into its own page.
 * 5) Per all. I going to stick with my original decision.
 * 6) - Per all.
 * 7) Per all.

Comments
Before I vote one way or another, can you show exactly how the articles will be split (in regards to which letters will be grouped)? As Alex pointed out, if the letters aren't split evenly, then the end result may still have unreasonably high character counts. At the very least, it could result in a lot of short articles that makes things annoying for navigation. 12:56, 16 May 2017 (EDT)
 * Imagine if has too many S's. We change that to  and either create  or move the S's to  (likely the former option). This is what I mean by #4. -- 15:17, 16 May 2017 (EDT)
 * I understand that, but at the same time, I'd prefer if all of that was settled before the proposal actually goes into effect, just so we don't run into more unforeseen issues. 15:19, 16 May 2017 (EDT)
 * That's what makes the ABC option so flexible. I can even foresee only S's reaching a point of needing to be split as well. I have seen organization go Sa-Sm and Sn-Sz . It doesn't exactly have to have a subpage from a subpage. We can do  and Sn-Sz . -- 15:27, 16 May 2017 (EDT)

Where will the "Miscellaneous Apps" section go if this passes? -- 15:43, 16 May 2017 (EDT)
 * I think that will remain on . I don't see that fitting anywhere else. -- 15:46, 16 May 2017 (EDT)

To be honest, I think that alphabetical order should only ever used as a last resort for ordering purposed; after literally all other possibilities are exhausted. There are tons of possibilities to sort these games; developing company, console system; game genre; etc, and even past that, if all categories are identical for multiple games, the 1st tiebreaker should be release date, and if a tie remains; sales should be used as a 2nd tiebreaker. 2 games selling the exact same amount is extremely unlikely in general, but if a tie still somehow remains, then it should be dealt with by having someone use a random number website, and not alphabetical order. 19:36, 16 May 2017 (EDT)
 * There's a lot of work resorting 200+ headers. I was looking to quickly transition to reducing page size. I wasn't anticipating putting in a lot of effort fixing the main article. I was looking to take the route of least resistance. If you are willing to put in the work to do that, I'll hand over the project to you since I created the two proposals about splitting, but first, since we already have two proposals about splitting, let's wait until the this proposal concludes before we do anything. -- 19:40, 16 May 2017 (EDT)

@Toadette the Achiever Retro Studios is a first-party developer. Also, even if a game had both first- (Nintendo) and third-party developers involved, like Capcom for the Oracle series, it's still considered a Nintendo game. 07:54, 17 May 2017 (EDT)
 * I think Retro Studios (along with Rare Ltd.), fall under the category of 2nd party because neither 1st or 3rd seem fitting. -- 15:38, 17 May 2017 (EDT)
 * But the original decision was to split by Nintendo and third-party, was it not? At least that's what was originally suggested; the section, however, was named "Split by 1st and 3rd Party", which I've now realised isn't always the same as "Nintendo and 3rd Party" (HAL Laboratory and the Kirby series, for example). And I always thought "first-party developer" referred to either Nintendo themselves, or a developer 100% owned by Nintendo, like Retro. 22:17, 17 May 2017 (EDT)
 * Yes, but I thought there were some flaws that weren't considered and splitting by ABC order was overlooked. I find this particular split a mess (not the 1st vs. 3rd party split but how members want to split the main article). I'm seeing a lot of back and forth with voting going on. I think I bit off more than I could chew. I think I opened a can of worms I wasn't prepared for. The good news is that is willing to take on the project. Based on his comments, I think he knows what he is doing compared to the rest of us. -- 18:22, 18 May 2017 (EDT)

Keep in mind if the ABC option wins, we can still do the original option that won, easily, after waiting 28 days. -- 15:33, 17 May 2017 (EDT)

I assume that if the first/third party split happens, it will still be grouped alphabetically within itself, correct? Or is there a different sorting method you have in mind? 19:41, 18 May 2017 (EDT)