Talk:Big Monty Mole

Separating Big Monty Mole and Mega Monty Mole
Should Big Monty Moles and Mega Monty Moles be separated since Mega Monty Moles are bosses and Big Monty Moles are just enemies? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 01:40, September 28, 2021 (EDT)

I don't think so. They are pretty much identical in appearance, both being bigger Monty Moles. 01:56, September 28, 2021 (EDT)

So should any enlarged Monty Moles be put in this page (Unless they have a different appearance and characteristics) MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 02:33, September 28, 2021 (EDT)

If they are notable (not random cameo and background appearances) and are confirmed to be called Big or Mega Monty Moles or something similar, probably yes, though I'm not entirely sure. 02:41, September 28, 2021 (EDT)

Should Super Monty Mole from volume 1 of Super Mario-kun get their own page or be grouped with Big Monty Mole? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 20:18, September 28, 2021 (EDT)

I'm not sure. I don't know anything about the comics. But if he looks similar, I think its worth a discussion. Though if he is very notable, he might get his own article. (Though images might be needed)  20:24, September 28, 2021 (EDT)

I wanted to clarify that Mega Monty Mole is a Monty Mole enlarged by Kamek (This is confirmed in their Mario Party: Star Rush description). big Monty Moles on the other hand seem to not be enlarged by Kamek (since they can be seen naturally in Yoshi’s Crafted World and serval official courses in the Super Mario Maker games). I believe this is further proof that Mega Monty Moles and big Monty Moles are separate. MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 02:31, October 4, 2021 (EDT)
 * Here's the issue: "Kyodai" in the Japanese name is the original indicator for "big" in SMB3 (Kyodai Kuribo, Kyodai Nokonoko, Kyodai Patapata, Kyodai Pakkun Flower, Kyodai Pukupuku) which they still return to (Kyodai Pukupuku being used for the Cheep Cheep Chase Cheep on Mario Party Superstars' website). In NSMB and some of the Party games, it's used for some entities translated as "Mega" (barring NSMB's Mega Goomba, which is "Boss Kuribo" instead). Most other recent games use Dai or Deka for "big," but they've pretty much never been used at the same time as each other for entities of the same base species, and seem to just be a matter of what the developers want to call them at that particular time. The only one treated with any sort of distinctness is "Big" in the Yoshi games, since Smash treats Deka Pakkun Flower and Big Pakkun separately. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 14:51, October 4, 2021 (EDT)

Wait since big Monty Moles are mentioned in the Blockafeller dialogue in Yoshi’s Crafted World. I was wondering if their Japanese name in the Blockafeller dialogue is different from Mega Monty Mole’s Japanese name? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 23:30, October 4, 2021 (EDT)
 * It actually turns out to be fairly generic, in every language - big Monty Mole (English), 大 きなチョロプー (Japanese), großen Monty Maulwurf (German), grossa Tantatalpa (Italian), grote mollen (Dutch), grosse Topi Taupe (French), topos monty grandotes (American Spanish), Topos Monty de los grandes (European Spanish), 大黃鼴鼠 (Traditional Chinese), 大黄鼹鼠 (Simplified Chinese), and 커다란 쪼르뚜 (Korean). I wonder if we should move it back to Mega Monty Mole for now. LinkTheLefty (talk) 15:50, October 18, 2021 (EDT)

What about the enlarged Monty Moles in Mario Golf: World Tour? Do they have official names? If not should they just be big Monty Moles? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 12:23, October 20, 2021 (EDT)
 * Regular-sized Monty Moles appear in Mario Golf: World Tour as NPCs, so the large ones from the same game would go under this article. "Big" enemies might go by several names, but they all have one thing in common - they are large versions of the existing enemy, which any developer can independently come up with self-explanatorily (this is probably why the Yoshi ones are considered separate, because they are generally designed from the standpoint of being unique bosses instead of normal enemies). For the record, Mega Mole is considered separate since it has a unique appearance and behavior compared to the Monty Moles in the same game, and Morty Mole is ultimately considered derivative of that since they have further distinguishing characteristics and were developed based on Mega Mole going by the internal name "Indy" (though there was some back and forth on this before). I still think that Mega Moles were supposed to more directly be big Monty Moles early on, given that Super Mario World also had a few unusual big enemies (ie. "Atomic" Telesa later more or less became Big Teresa, and Banzai Bill is intended to be a big Bullet Bill despite another Big Bullet Bill appearing later), and Super Mario 64 Monty Moles were apparently going to be Mega Moles with different behavior but simply had their in-game model reduced in size in the final game, and it's distinctly possible that Morty Mole was a redesigned/renamed Mega Mole - but at this point, it's probably best to treat all three as separate entities. LinkTheLefty (talk) 11:07, October 22, 2021 (EDT)

There is another enlarged Monty Mole seen in Mario Manga. Though I haven’t talked about the 4koma manga just yet, there is a enlarged Monty Mole in the second Mario Kart 64 volume from 4koma Manga Kingdom. Could someone explain what is going on here or at the very least explain if a name was said? Also could someone say the name on what the strip was called? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 12:00, October 22, 2021 (EDT)
 * I don't seem to notice any name. I don't fully understand Japanese, but i can make out letters, but can't see Choropu, or anything like that. -- 14:02, October 22, 2021 (EDT)
 * No name given; the Mega (Monty?) Mole appears to be burrowing Big Donut's namesake donut-hole (getting burned a moment afterwards), and apparently can't make one in Block Fort. LinkTheLefty (talk) 15:43, October 22, 2021 (EDT)

Splitting big Monty Mole, Mega Monty Mole, and Super Choropū
Should we all split these enlarged moles into multiple pages?

Proposer: Deadline: November 6 2021 23:49 GMT

Support: Making big Monty Mole the main page with Mega Monty Mole and Super Choropū being notable members.

 * 1) I think they could all get split with two major reasons on why this is. The first reason is that Mega Monty Mole is confirmed to be a Monty Mole enlarged by Kamek (kind of similar to Big Montgomery) with big Monty Moles being seen naturally as enemies in various games (Mainly official Super Mario Maker levels and Yoshi’s Crafted World). Super Choropū just seems to be a leader for the Monty Moles seen in that chapter (similar to how Mega Moles being described as bosses over Monty Moles, though Super Choropū is clearly a enlarged Monty Mole rather then a Mega Mole since the same volume does have a chapter with a Mega Mole later on). The second reason is that they all have different Japanese names (or different names in other languages) since big Monty Mole doesn’t have the same Japanese name as Mega Monty Mole. So I think big Monty Mole should be the main page, while Mega Monty Mole and Super Choropū can be notable members. Also with this rule, should Big Montgomery and Mega Monty Mole be notable members of normal Monty Moles or big Monty Moles since they were enlarged from a normal Monty Mole, but are big like big Monty Mole?

Oppose: Keeping the page the same as it is now.

 * 1) I'm not too familiar with Super Mario-kun, but it seems like Mario is calling the giant Monty Mole that shows up a "Super(-sized) Choropū", and then later on, the Mega Mole character introduces itself as "Indy" - so in the first volume, Super Choropū seems to be the name of the species (or just a name that a surprised Mario uses on the spot), and Indy / Mega Mole is an individual character here (or the artist didn't know that the giant Monty Moles had a specific name in Super Mario World and just made a random name up at first before "correcting" it later on). There hasn't been much discussion on what to do with Super Choropū yet, or what to do with any early big Monty Moles that aren't (seemingly?) Mega Moles. The Mega/big Monty Mole situation is explained above, and as mentioned, the foreign (and English) "name" in Yoshi's Crafted World isn't a proper name, but a generic descriptor in this instance, and thus it's probably best to revert the name of this article back to Mega Monty Mole. To reiterate on why the current "big" Monty Mole and Mega Monty Mole are one and the same: there is way, way, way too much overlap with the names for the general Kyodai/Super/Dai/Mega/Deka/Big/etc. line of giant enemies over the years that it would be pointless right now to split hairs over them. Yes, Kamek apparently uses magic to change sizes in later Mario Party games, but unlike the Yoshi bosses, they are just larger versions of those enemies and do not have notable transformative aspects; he also magicks the Mondo Woods / Sacred Forest in Paper Mario: Color Splash: in Japanese, the Mega Goombas that appear in the former are named Kyodai Kuribō, same as the Super Mario Bros. 3 and Mario Party series incarnations, and the Small Goombas that appear in the latter are named Chibi Kuribō, same as the Super Mario 64 incarnation. Basically, it's up to developers' whim.
 * 2) - Per LTL.
 * 3) Per all.
 * 4) Per all.
 * 5) Per all.

Comments
You guys do have some points, and I will admit that if we split all the enlarged Monty Mole pages into different sections, it would get very confusing to write. MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 12:13, October 23, 2021 (EDT)