Talk:Gold Bowser Statue

Merge
This is an old page, from back before color variations were handled with as much consistency as they are nowadays. Anyways, this indeed is a color variation, with the SMW difference being "one moves and one doesn't," which is the same difference for Koco's colors except when it isn't. The only source seemingly to indicate they're separate was Mario Mania, which iirc had some pretty random splits in it. Anyways, this should probably be merged. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:21, October 28, 2019 (EDT)
 * I'm not sure, so maybe start a proposal...? 00:27, October 28, 2019 (EDT)
 * I prefer to discuss first so that when some sudden evidence comes out of nowhere, it's not the last minute (like with Nokottasu). Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:31, October 28, 2019 (EDT)
 * Well, I mean, the differences are actually more apparent than typical color variation enemies; they jump towards the player, and are actually harmful to touch. The gray ones, on the other hand, are stationary, shoot fireballs when the player comes into range, and are harmless to touch. I think it's also worth noting that TTBOMK even the Shogakukan guide treats them separately. 00:40, October 28, 2019 (EDT)
 * Encyclopedia Super Mario Bros., which gives all (or at least most) color variations different sections. See here. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:53, October 28, 2019 (EDT)
 * It's a gold variation, which is the exception done to enemies, see my edit summary. -- 02:19, October 28, 2019 (EDT)
 * It's only the exception when that has to due with coins or points. This is a beige behavioral variation, and looking at the other available palettes (lower right), none of the others really would have worked. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 02:24, October 28, 2019 (EDT)
 * I see. It could be unintentional though, as its Japanese name indicates that it's golden, not beige. Anyways, how do we handle the Gray Bowser Statue name if we're merging this to Bowser Statue? -- 02:26, October 28, 2019 (EDT)
 * (It's the Monty Mole palette.) Anyways, they'd be bolded and reffed individually on the SMW section, I suppose. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 02:30, October 28, 2019 (EDT)
 * Interesting. They are alive, unlike the gray ones, but that's a minor problem. Anyways, i'd support merging if anything. -- 02:36, October 28, 2019 (EDT)
 * The gray ones seem picky enough about when they shoot fire to be considered a similar level of "alive." They just aren't mobile. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 02:44, October 28, 2019 (EDT)
 * Should we let consensus first, or start a proposal directly, now? I kinda feel this will go like the Boss Bass talk page. -- 02:46, October 28, 2019 (EDT)
 * Exactly why I'm opening with discussion. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 03:09, October 28, 2019 (EDT)

Torment
So, I've just created my account, so that I will never change the word "Damage" into "Torment" again. So could you please unprotect this page because this page is protected indefinitely? Powerpuff Kirby Fan 17:52, January 19, 2020 (EST)
 * Or you could just... continue not doing that. -- 20:10, January 19, 2020 (EST)

Merge to Bowser Statue
"But we don't merge gold versions!" you might be thinking. Thing is, this is a different situation: here we have two inorganic colors for an inorganic object that has absolutely nothing to do with coins in the slightest. Furthermore, the "gold" enemies we split have "gold" in the JP name as well, while this has a mere parenthesized differentiator. Also, the only source in English to split them was a book that split all color variations.

Proposer: Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) Deadline: February 26, 2020, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) Per above
 * 2) Per my thoughts above.
 * 3) With the possible exception of the Bowser Monument, the current Bowser Statue article is about statues based on Bowser in general, which may or may not act as obstacles. With the golden ones in Super Mario Odyssey (one of which, as mentioned below, is also generically called a Bowser statue in a mission title), this article does the same, except with an arbitrary coloration characteristic. Therefore, it makes sense to treat it as a color variant.

Oppose

 * 1) - Per Alex.
 * 2) I would actually argue that each different variant of Chargin' Chuck also be split, seeing as how we deal with the different variants of Shy Guy.
 * 3) - I'll say no because of their actions in Super Mario World. As far as I recall, the regular statues don't move, aside from the occasional turning on their pedestal. They may be similar statues in Super Mario Odyssey, but their role in World is what's making me hesitant.

Comments
@Alex95 The difference is they jump forward, which is no more different than the various Cheep Cheep or Chargin' Chuck behaviors (alliteration unintended). Also, as I mentioned somewhere else, an SMA4 level has both SMW Bowser Statues and the SMB3 Bowser Statue in the same room, so behavioral differences seem kind of moot in that light. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 11:24, February 12, 2020 (EST)
 * Do the statues that are in the same room act differently or similarly? 11:28, February 12, 2020 (EST)
 * Hang on, misremembered. It's the same level, but the SMB3 ones are in one room and the SMW ones in another. Regardless, they each act like their originator. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 11:39, February 12, 2020 (EST)

Not all the golden enemies are exclusively related to coins or the Gold Mario form, however. For example, because golden versions of Goomba and Bullet Bill existed prior to New Super Mario Bros. 2, they get coverage on the Gold Goomba and Gold Bullet Bill pages, not to mention a few other non-RPG golden enemies have their own articles like Gold Mini Slump Bird, Gold Chomp, and Golden Gummit. LinkTheLefty (talk) 10:35, February 16, 2020 (EST)
 * Gold Bullet Bill in Sunshine did relate to coins, and the others (usually for Mario Party minigames, and an SMRPG one as well in Goomba's case) had to do with extra points. Either way, JP name and how the Mania guide works in general are the clincher I feel. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 13:48, February 16, 2020 (EST)

Removed my vote per the conversation here. 12:23, February 17, 2020 (EST)

@Toadette Problems with that are that it leaves no "base" version for the game (the most basic behavior has the moniker of "Lookout Chuck") and that two versions don't have names in the source (the diagonal counterpart to Clappin' Chuck and the whistle-blower). And of course, this is additionally comparable to the Grinders in SMW2, which had like 6 behaviors and 3 names. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 16:16, February 17, 2020 (EST)
 * @Doc: Those are explicitly no longer credited as different versions of Ukikis. This has yet to be done with the Bowser Statues. 16:57, February 17, 2020 (EST)
 * Well, if we're considering the SMO ones in this article, it has, as they're called "Bowser Statues" in at least one Power Moon name. Also, can you tell me what source "explicitly" had those no longer relevant names? YNI didn' have an English guide, was i a YWW thing or something? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 17:01, February 17, 2020 (EST)