MarioWiki:Main Page talk archive 27

10,000th article
It's been a long, long time since we attempted to reach for the 10,000th article. Many things have come and went away. The manipulations of the article count... we were supposed to reach this height a rather long time ago ever since I made the 9000th article. That, was until all those Super Smash Brothers series special moves were merged into their character articles, losing around 60 or 80 articles in the result of the merge. Many proposals went by... around 30 of them, or more. And our presence in the wiki grows more and more to other areas of the internet, arising the good, and the bad. Yes. It's time. The 10,000th article is ‎Stalking Piranha Plant, created by ‎ We would like to congratulate the wiki in reaching this milestone after quite a long time. Thanks relatively new user.

However, as a wiki, we still have many things to work on. We still have over 1,000 stubs in the wiki, there are articles that are waiting to be complete with at least a single image, and the maintenance lists must be updated daily so all the information can be heard. Many things indeed, some done, some left unfinished. I suggest that before reaching the 11,000th article, we should reach out and work on older pages and become the most updated wiki in favor of all Mario, Yoshi, DK, and other fans of the series to receive such great information.

Let's make a big improvement in our agendas fellow MarioWikians when reaching the next milestone. MarioWiki... FOREVER!

EDIT: Unfortunately, I actually have no idea what is the 9000th article. o_O 22:07, 16 November 2009 (EST)


 * Maybe this might quit your smile (for a while), but why the Main page says 9.982 articles? Are you counting the redirects or something else?

How so? I am clearly seeing this in the main page. No, I am not counting redirects. Do you have any other evidence? (And if you do, I'll be gone by then, leaving the computer) 22:23, 16 November 2009 (EST)

Oopsie, I saw the problem... Looks like the Main page wasn't refreshed, so it showed me the old results. Now we have 10003 pages and counting...


 * Stubs? Pfft, no problem, I'll take care of them, but I can only do it for games I have, although we could use a few more images...--
 * Taking down one thousand stubs isn't easy, but if you're eager to try It, you might be interested in joining Knife's PipeProject. - 22:45, 16 November 2009 (EST)
 * A stub a day keeps the doctor away? -- 10:47, 17 November 2009 (EST)


 * XD nice phrase Steve. We should get on those things first, and then, we can work onto getting the 11,000th article -- 16:04, 17 November 2009 (EST)


 * Quiet you. And yes, this is a great milestone we've reached. However, instead of rushing to create that 11,000th article, we should focus on the articles we already have. Unstubbing 1,000+ articles is no easy task, but with everyone's help it can be done. Stop creating articles just to get rid of red links. Stop creating articles on extremely minor subjects. Stop creating articles just to raise article count. Find better images and create better templates if you're good at that. Start expanding as many articles as you can. And maybe, just maybe, we'll have no stubs at all by the time we hit 11,000. We still have a lot of work to do.-- 16:19, 17 November 2009 (EST)


 * I will tackle the stubs and new templates!--

Before anyone asks how many days did we reached the next thousand articles, it took like say 300 days to reach such a milestone. From Janurary 4, 2009 (the time we reached 9000 articles), to November 16, 2009, it would've explained why it look a bit longer than reaching from 8000 to 9000 articles, and 7000 to 8000 articles, and probably so on. I predict as we go beyond how articles we have made, typically many more conflicts will arise during this period. Remember the reactions of being a "published source", and the time that someone predicted that we can reach a new milestone by a thousand articles? [This link] will do. However, I can't find that other section. ^_^;; 06:26, 18 November 2009 (EST)

Old proposal
Why does the latest proposal template still have The "Link to Userpedia in Community" proposal? The deadline for that was Nov. 12(last week!) and it's certainly not the latest proposal.

You can change it yourself, you know.  21:20, 21 November 2009 (EST)

Recent Vandal Attacks
First off, I would like to thank all the users that helped fight off that recent vandalism attack. And I do mean everyone, not only the administrators. I saw the recent changes today and saw 100 changes filled with image deletions and blanked articles. In light of these recent events, I need to bring a new issue up.

Back in February 2007, we decided to lock the move feature to new users. This was due to the fact moving pages is easy, but requires a lot more effort to revert. We were skeptical whether it would work or not, since a vandal would only have to wait 4 days to start moving pages. However, it worked out pretty good. In more recent times, vandalism by moved pages is pretty much non-existent.

The most common form of vandalism now is page creation. Recently, vandals been creating pages with spammy or obscene titles. How do we solve this problem? Easy. We simply restrict new page creation and file uploading to new users (accounts registered 4 days or less). The only drawback to this is that new users can't create articles, create talk pages, or create their own user pages until their 4 days have passed. It wouldn't be too detrimental to the wiki since new users can first learn how to create a proper article by editing existing articles. New users can see other user pages and have a good idea on what is allowed and what isn't. Restricting the feature won't completely stop new page vandalism, but it will greatly reduce it. -- 16:48, 23 November 2009 (EST)
 * How can you say that if the biggest vandal attack in recent memory was by moving pages?


 * Anyway, I'm no MediaWiki expert, but maybe it's possible to restrict page creation to specific namespaces. - 16:57, 23 November 2009 (EST)
 * I agree, but "In more recent times, vandalism by moved pages is pretty much non-existent. " Remember WL. We shouldnt restrict it, they can wait to create their userpage :) -- 16:59, 23 November 2009 (EST)
 * @Cobold There is a "createtalk" user right that might override "createpage". Yoshario''' [[Image:Yoshi_wearing_mario's hat.jpg|30px]]
 * I agree with your thoughts Knife, but there's another thing: 4 days? I had to wait for at least a month until I was able to move pages. Sure that this four days info is correct? - 17:02, 23 November 2009 (EST)

In that case, what does a new user do when they find an article does not exist that they know a great deal about? Besides, a spammer could just as easily wait four days to spam, or in the meantime find other ways to spam. The attack last night was successful to the extent that it was because there were few people online during most of it's duration, not because it was hard to change. If there is a major attack in which the spammer simply edits pages, will you disable editing for four days? Uniju :D 17:18, 23 November 2009 (EST)

@Cobold: What attack are you talking about? Did you mean WL's vandalism? @Tucayo: I don't consider WarioLoaf's vandalism as a common vandal attack. When I said that, I meant moving vandalism by common trolls. Sorry for not being clear about that, but the point was that moving page vandalism is much less common now than it was in the past. @Edo: I was sure a new user is defined as four days or less, but you might be right. I thought we went with the limit we decided on two years ago. @Uniju: It's not only last night, the vandalism has been occuring for several days. And editing vandalism is much easier to revert than new page vandalism plus anyone can revert it, not only sysops. -- 17:31, 23 November 2009 (EST)
 * Yes, I was talking about WarioLoaf. Just had to throw that in there because I was one of the guys who had to clean his mess up.
 * Any user can edit newly created spam pages and mark them with though. -  17:34, 23 November 2009 (EST)
 * =/= actually delete. Tagging 500 spam pages is kinda renundant. - 17:38, 23 November 2009 (EST)
 * I agree with you guys, there should be some kind of limit for new users. Perhaps if the vandals see that they can't edit right away, they will get bored and forget about the vandalizing. I'm not saying that will happen with all of them, though, it might happen for a few of them. And new users that are trying to get accustomed to the wiki will learn about creating new pages. I get tired of seeing a new page that's nothing and tagging it with a delete tag. It's just silly. All in all, maybe we should have a limit. Maybe one of you could make it into a proposal. There's my two cents. :)

Um... do you guys think that four days is really enough? Why not a week or two?

Great Idea Funky!

Shouldn't we also do this with uploading images. Some vandal had recently made like 20 spam images and it seems like it takes time to delete those all.

I already suggested that, but I better get Steve's input.-- 12:33, 25 November 2009 (EST)


 * Like Fawfulfury said, there was a recent vandal attack not too long ago and they were uploading explicit pics. I was fending off for about 20 minutesntil RAP showed up. I think the limit should be at least a week.--

Steve has decided to restrict moving, page creation, and file uploading to all users registered 1 week or less.-- 16:17, 26 November 2009 (EST)


 * Well, this sucks. Even if I'm new, I'm (so far) the only person making articles for the souvenirs and microgames of WarioWare: Twisted!.


 * Well your week is probably almost up so you'll be able to make more articles in no time!


 * I joined three days ago.
 * You know, removing new users' rights to make articles and all that won't stop vandals. They can go to any page that isn't protected and ruin it.


 * Yes, but it will cause less vandalism. If you really don't like this than give you reasons to Steve, even though you're best off just waiting.
 * I'll be patient.

Friend Lists
Ok, roaming trough proposal's archives i saw this. If it wasnt reverted, we do not allow those lists, and however, I see them in the pages. opinions? It was made a rule, so it must be respected -- 13:56, 26 November 2009 (EST)

Seems like a pretty harmless thing, but a rule is a rule.-- 16:02, 26 November 2009 (EST)

New Template
Where exactly can I get in contact with someone in charge of creating templates? Redstar 08:32, 29 November 2009 (EST)
 * There is no one in charge of the templates.If you need help making a template tell a sysop.


 * What kinda template do you need? I can probably make you one.--


 * Hey Gamefreak75, can you make a template for me? Since there's a bunch off new sub pages on glitches, do you think you can make a template listing all those sub pages. I'm REALLY bad at making templates so when you have time please make one for me!

Banjo and Kazooie comfirmed for Sega All Stars Racing (News section update proposal)
However they appear in a non-Nintendo game on a non-Nintendo console, so would mentioning it on their pages and in the news section on the Main Page be out of element for the Mario wiki? http://sonicstadium.org/news/format-exclusive-characters-for-asr-confirmed, but access to the site the boxart is from has been blocked due to it being leaked without permission so we know it was an official source, http://sonicstadium.org/news/chris-lewis-site-blocked-after-asr-leak --Taj The Genie 18:16, 30 November 2009 (EST)


 * Well if it's not Nintendo related, then no.--
 * I agree with Gamefreak75 here. - 19:41, 30 November 2009 (EST)

The wiki is loading a lot faster
It is, for some reason. Any way what happened ? ー　User:Winx Club
 * It just does that sometimes. Not that big of a deal.

I actually noticed that the website loaded more faster (after that down-site event). I'm evening typing this in school right now, shhhhh... nice. Considered this as a plus. ^_^ 12:20, 11 December 2009 (EST)

Edit: I'm taking it back, it somehow went back to the original speed. :X 21:38, 11 December 2009 (EST)

Forum is down
The forum is currently down due to issues of some kind. It just redirects to the GoDaddy hosting when you type in the url. Could a sysop please add this to Community News template so people are aware of the problem?

This website itself for a brief while was like that! What happened?

Yeah! I know! I went on yesterday and it said address not found! I WAS FREAKING OUT, MAN!!!! FREAKING OUT!!!! I was planning on asking Steve about that but I'm too lazy. :p
 * Steve said that the DNS was causing some problems. He'll probably have it completely cleared up within a few days. Don't sweat it. 15:53, 11 December 2009 (EST)

Coding Help?
Is there a way to automatically display the number of entries in a category with over 200 entries?-- 18:05, 18 December 2009 (EST)

Userspace "Guidelines"
Okay, first off, I think these are rather annoying. Why? Really, WHY? WHY DID THESE HAVE TO BE PUT IN PLACE? They only serve to limit the creative ability of everyone! Or is this one of those backwards places that considers conformity a value and creativity a fault? Second, I think "Guidelines" is incorrect. Guidelines serve to advise you, but they are suggestions, nothing more. "Rules" or "Laws" would be more accurate, because they are forced upon you. Third, one reason I am frustrated, is that EVERY TIME i find a group to which I seem to belong, some asshole ruins it, and I get in trouble. Really. Fourth, if you are someone who's just going to say "oh, well go put it on Fantendo. we dont want that stuff on this wiki, even in a userspace." well I CANT, because fantendo won't allow any new users to join. I should know. I've been trying for the past 3 years.

Your not-so-much buddy bill. 


 * Okay, first off, when trying to enact change, don't call the current system retarded. Even if you really feel that way, the only thing that you'll accomplish is getting a bunch of people angry with you. Also, it's not that we want to eliminate your creativity, it's simply that that has nothing to do with the purpose of this wiki. We're here to write an encyclopedia about Mario, not to be creative.


 * Second, I agree.


 * Third, this is your problem. It has nothing to do with this wiki.


 * Fourth, I had no problem joining Fantendo. If you need help, contact a Fantendo bureaucrat. They can create a new account for you. Also, nobody wants to help you when you say "SHUT THE F#%& UP". We really don't want "that stuff" on this wiki, and if you are going to put it here, we don't want you on this wiki. 14:08, 19 December 2009 (EST)

Yeah, sorry about that. I have an emotional disorder, you know, and when i get mad, i get REALLY mad. I tweaked my comment to still get the point across, but not like that. But even so, it's our userspace, can't we use it as we choose? My fake fake news (now gone) was like the fake news, so why was it deleted?


 * What gave you the impression that Userspace could be used for whatever you want? This has never been a rule on this website. You're allowed to include a small amount of information about yourself on your userpage, but other than that you should only have things on your userpage that can assist the wiki. The difference between the "fake news" and the "fake fake news" is that the fake news is a part of The 'Shroom, an officially approved Mario Wiki project. It assists the wiki by showing the skills of its users to a wide audience. On the other hand, your fake fake news is not a part of The 'Shroom. It does not assist the wiki because it is not officially associated with the wiki. 20:49, 19 December 2009 (EST)
 * Per 2257. I'd like to add that you can upload your fake fake news or whatever you want somewhere else on the Internet, and link there from your user page. 05:40, 20 December 2009 (EST)

all right, i think i get what you're saying, but could I still create one page of backup articles for the fake news to use if a position wasn't filled? I have tons of obituaries somewhere.


 * If it's just for storage, why not simply save it to your computer? 23:02, 20 December 2009 (EST)

Cause I want Ralphfan to be able to pick his favorites.


 * In that case, please e-mail them to him. 21:26, 21 December 2009 (EST)
 * @YourBuddyBill: In addition to all this, may I recommend userpedia for all of your userpage needs. Userpedia is a wiki that was created to contain all of this stuff waaaaay back in history. You should try it :D

A Message
Hey guys, can I be an admin? I wanted to be one for SRB2 Wiki, but I was too nervous to ask. Oh, yeah and another thing. Can someone tell GigaMetalLuigi to stop revising my edits even though they are true? - Chris Helper
 * I may not have been here a week but I know fact from fiction, stop adding unneeded stuff to articles. Also as far as I'm concerned you aren't ready to be an admin at all.
 * Ok guys, first, Chris, read this. And about your reverted edits, I will check them and see if they were rightly reverted. -- 13:04, 26 December 2009 (EST)

Creating a new page
Hello there! I have a problem. When I try to create a new page, it says:­­­­­ Page creation limited This site has restricted the ability to create new pages to autoconfirmed users. You can go back and edit an existing page, or wait for your account to be autoconfirmed. I'm not sure what is the autoconfirm thing. I need to know what it means and how to be autoconfirmed because I really would like to create my User Page so please help me. Thanks! majoraskullkid 20:00, 27 December 2009 (EST)

You must be a user here for at least one week to become autoconfirmed. But if you really want a userpage, ask a sysop to start the page for you, and then edit it. As for now, you can only edit pages that were already created.


 * Check this. :)

Thank you very much! I searched on the wiki but I didn't find this page. majoraskullkid 10:14, 28 December 2009 (EST)

Sysop help needed on the forum
Someone says they've been gone a while, and when they tried to log in, they were banned from editing for an unknown reason. Could a sysop please help him out? The thread is here
 * Sysops don't have moderator powers on the forum. You need to contact User:Porplemontage or User:Stooben Rooben.... Wait I think I misunderstood you. I'll check the block log. - 10:57, 30 December 2009 (EST)

ONline Multiplayer
Mr Miyamoto said that the online multiplayer feature in upcoming Mario games may be a viable feature. Source -- 15:56, 31 December 2009 (EST)

The Speed Gamers
The Speed Gamers will be doing a week long Mario marathon to raise money for an undetermined charity. Should this be noted anywhere on the wiki?
 * I believe so. Bulbapedia is making mention of the charity, as well as several other affected game fandoms. Not good to be too insular. Redstar 04:40, 2 January 2010 (EST)
 * If they get their hands on some rare games, it could also be a research opportunity for us, so the more MWiki users who watch, the better. - 01:12, 3 January 2010 (EST)
 * When is this?--
 * This upcoming summer (or winter, if you live in the Southern Hemisphere). I don't have any exact dates, though. - 01:54, 3 January 2010 (EST)
 * Hm, okay, let's see what games they're gonna play...--

"If it has mario in the name of it,don't ask,we'll do it. This includes mario spinoffs." -Phil of the speed gamers

Wait, what is this "Speed Gamers" thing? I've never heard of it.

Did you know...?
Are we ever going to re-update that section? It hasn't been changed in a while.
 * Oh, I apologize, that is my job. I got busy with some other things and completely forgot about that section. I will search for some fitting trivia and put it in there today or tomorrow. - 02:03, 3 January 2010 (EST)

10,000 articles, without stubs
Checking the wiki stats, I saw that the article count, does not include stubs. "There are 63,840 total pages in the database. This includes "talk" pages, pages about the Super Mario Wiki, minimal "stub" pages, redirects, and others that probably don't qualify as content pages. Excluding those, there are 10,184 pages that are probably legitimate content pages. " IIRC, when the 10,000 articles were announced, it was inferred that it included stubs, so I just wanted to make clear, that without stubs we have 10,000 legitimate, non-stub articles :) -- 11:30, 6 January 2010 (EST)

Really? I find that kind of unlikely. How did stub articles automatically get registered in the statistics when then the template for it was created after the wiki was? I will test this, however, by temporarily removing a stub tag and seeing if the article count rises.-- 14:46, 6 January 2010 (EST)


 * Maybe it needs some time to refresh and reload...--

I couldn't debunk this theory the way I intended, I found proof that article count has nothing to do with the stub template or category. This website is fairly undeveloped with no stub template, yet it still excludes "minimal" stub pages. I still have no idea what the statistics is talking about when it says "minimal" stub page, but we probably shouldn't take the word "stub" so literally. Conclusion: Articles with the stub template are still included in mainspace articles.-- 23:42, 7 January 2010 (EST)
 * According to something I read on mediawiki.org - a stub is considered (by the database) a page with 250 bytes or less.

Currently, we have 1,171+ stub articles. The "plus" basically means there might be more stubs than we ever presume or by what the system totals up. Again -- we have something to fix up for. Fixing those stubs painlessly as possible. 16:14, 9 January 2010 (EST)

Nintendo, least green company
This year, again, Nintendo was named the least green company by Greenpeace, giving them a 1.4 out of 10. Report. -- 15:13, 8 January 2010 (EST)


 * I seriously don't see why said news article needs to be mentioned on any article on this Wiki, really. :| --M. C. - "Mario Gals" Fan! User Page | Talk Page 16:38, 8 January 2010 (EST)


 * Neither do I. We're not a Nintendo wiki. 17:03, 8 January 2010 (EST)

Thats why I put it here, not in an article :) And I think the MP says wrongly: "Mario & Nintendo News". -- 19:17, 8 January 2010 (EST)
 * I think Nintendo News was added for stuff like the announcement of a new console (e.g. Nintendo DSi XL). - 19:20, 8 January 2010 (EST)
 * But shouldn't then the news only be about Mario games released on those consoles, rather than the release of the consoles themselves? -
 * This environmentalist crud is all BS in my opinion.--

CES 2010
According to many nintendo-based blogs, Satoru Iwata stated that there will be a Nintendo DS' sucessor, which it will have enhanced graphics (meh) and a motion sensor system (similar to the wii). The only thing he didn't explain was its possible release. Shall we add this to the news on the main page?


 * Damn, and I had just bought my DSI! >.< T.T Anyways, I don't really think so because

So I propose not to.--
 * 1) We don't have an image of it.
 * 2) It could be the same thing that Nintendo did with Kirby Wii and Pikmin 3, state that they're making something, but release it much later than expected.
 * This is all a definite. This doesn't mean that the new handheld will come out any time soon, so having a news post about it is pretty pointless. - 07:37, 10 January 2010 (EST)


 * Per all; unless it's news about anything major Mario series related, I wouldn't recommend placing it here yet. --M. C. - "Mario Gals" Fan! User Page | Talk Page 22:31, 10 January 2010 (EST)

new Luigi's Mansion for the wii?
it was announced that Nintendo in North America has protected the name of Luigi's Mansion. It may be that Nintendo wanted to ensure the protection of the mark, only longer, it would also be possible that a New Play Control version or even a successor to the GameCube title is in the works. To a NPC amended the pre-survey indicates a long time in Finland, which title yet for the New Play Series Control is required. If this was also Luigi's Mansion as a choice with it. However, Nintendo had announced some time before the end of the NPC Series. Lindsayoris15 16:46, 20 January 2010 (EST) http://www.gamerzines.com/xbox-360/news/luigis-mansion-sequel.html
 * saw that :) in different source, but saw it :) Sounds like speculation ATM, so perhaps wait some time to get it confirmed -- 16:51, 20 January 2010 (EST)

Another major indication of the appearance of this game is that the Japanese magazine Nintendo Dream will release one new announcements of a title of a famous franchise in its next issue. At the moment it is just waiting for the 20th February, it appears this issue. Lindsayoris15 16:53, 20 January 2010 (EST) http://gonintendo.com/viewstory.php?id=111436
 * As we don't have anything solid, let's not jump to conclusions.

I could be wrong, but I believe there were rumors about LM2 coming for Wii a year or two ago, and of course there is still no sequel. This new LM2 rumor could end up the same, with no new game. Just keep your fingers crossed and hope for a new one on Wii soon.


 * Let's hope it's true.:)--

Donkey Kong & Yoshi
Are Donkey Kong & Yoshi all that relevant, save for games that actually feature Mario? WarioLand 16:56, 26 January 2010 (EST)
 * Yes. Everything is equally relevant, check Coverage. - 17:02, 26 January 2010 (EST)

Enemy-Related Issues
Hi all,

Hope I'm putting this in the right place. Just wanted to bring up some enemy-related issues and questions regarding said issues; any answers to these questions or input is appreciated.

1) I think there needs to be a better, more clear differentiation in the Boo article between medium-sized Boos, which have pretty much been established as the "regular" variety, and Boo Buddies (which should be considered a sub-species). In particular, I think what needs to be mentioned is that standard Boos didn't appear until the first Yoshi's Island, and Boo Diddlys, the first Boos of any kind to appear, were simply Boo Buddies under a different name. 2) On a related note, are those little swarming Boos from Ghost Castle in Yoshi's Story actually Boo Buddies? They're currently listed as such, but it seems they're too small to even qualify as that particular sub-species (especially given the fact that ghosts that are indisputably buddy-sized appear in the Big and Little Boo chains in the game). I think the term "Mini-Boo" might be more in order, even if it's just conjectural. 3) Bessie Bass, based on the fact that she's female, should be considered a Big Bertha (albeit a non-typical one without young and with jumping ability) and not a Boss Bass. This shouldn't be problematic as the two are simply the different sexes of the same species.  I have actually already altered the relevant articles to reflect all of this, but can change them back if there's a lot of dissent here Wink. 4) Are the giant fish that replaced Bubbas in SM64 DS Big Berthas, or Boss Basses? They're currently listed as Big Berthas, but there are problems with this. They have no young, which admittedly is not a deal-breaker, as I implied above in discussing Bessie Bass, but is still a bit suspect. Secondly, although they never actually jump out of the water, they do skim the surface, which is something that Big Berthas in SMB3 never did. Thirdly, they can actually swallow the player character, which Berthas from SMB3 could not do and not even Bessie, who I'm arguing is a Big Bertha, can do. Lastly, there's nothing in particular that would indicate that they're female. It might make some sense to assume that they're male, especially since the fish species they replaced were pretty clearly male, and just consider them to be Boss Basses. 5) Last question: should the big Piranhas from Yoshi's Story just be considered normal Piranha Plants (as the Wiki currently considers them to be), or a different sub-species (which I would support, as they seem to me to be too different from regular Piranha Plants to qualify as such; I might call them Piranha Stalks)?

-RebelX24


 * 1) I agree that the differentiation between Boo Buddies and Boos could be explained better. I believe the major difference is that Boo Buddies tend to be co-dependent with other Boo Buddies when attacking and attack with organized patterns (although regular Boos have known to do this too, so there essentially is very little difference other than the name). Also, we consider Boo Diddlys as regular Boos because they essentially perform the same functions as regular Boos and are identical in appearance. Also, the remake of Super Mario Bros. 3 for GBA renamed them as just "Boos". The same thing happened with Bloober and Blooper.
 * 2) I believe the Boos in Yoshi's Story are officially named as "Boo Buddies". If that's really their official name in that game, there's really nothing to debate.
 * 3) There is nothing concrete proving whether Bessie Bass is male or female (though the name implies female), so we will leave it how it is, noting that its gender is unknown.
 * 4) See 4.
 * 5) See 2.

You really should split your questions to the appropriate talk pages instead of using the main page talk. Also, I've added br tags to make your message more readable, if you don't mind.-- 20:56, 28 January 2010 (EST)