Talk:Paper Mario: The Origami King bestiary

I am currently working on a spreadsheet with all relevant stats as I play through the game. Attack and Defense numbers I can't provide, but through trial and error I can deduce the HP numbers. I'm holding off on developing the bestiary template for now until I've finished, in case there are stats that need or needn't be recorded to it. 21:10, September 3, 2020 (EDT)
 * Please bare with me, as developing the RPG bestiaries is very important to me, as I am the designer of all current bestiaries. 21:16, September 3, 2020 (EDT)
 * So, are you going to make a template? 21:20, September 3, 2020 (EDT)
 * Yes. 21:32, September 3, 2020 (EDT)
 * I get the feeling there aren't any enemies in this game with a defense factor unlike the past games.
 * I'm fairly certain that's the case. 05:13, September 4, 2020 (EDT)
 * The data is coming along well. I'm wrapping up on some of the yellow streamer enemies and then i'll be moving on to do the purple streamer. 18:30, September 5, 2020 (EDT)
 * I've reached the origami castle. almost done, and then i'll be putting together the template.--User:Eldritchdraaks/sig 17:37, September 7, 2020 (EDT)

Done

 * My work on the bestiary is finished. Time for me to disappear back into the shadows until Nintendo releases another mario rpg.-- 23:14, September 8, 2020 (EDT)

Paper Macho stat tables
Does anyone think this would be a good idea? I would be willing to do this myself whenever I feel like it. Obviously, the stat tables for these enemies would be vastly different from the regular enemies, I have a few ideas on what to have: What do you guys think?
 * Olly Stickers
 * Hits to defeat (not counting the Olly stickers)
 * Attack power
 * Location(s)
 * Collectible Treasure description
 * Seems good. Do you think we should have a seperate page for "," or just merge it with Olly Tape? 18:05, September 28, 2020 (EDT)
 * I agree, we should have the stats for something like this, but put it on a separate page, similar to the Sammer Guys.-- 20:04, September 28, 2020 (EDT)
 * Yeah, I got the idea from the fact that the Sammer Guys have a different statbox from the other enemies in Super Paper Mario. And I think Olly Stickers would work better merged with the Paper Macho Soldier page.

I think this would be a great idea! It's always annoying having to click the links in the main article to get info on them.

Inked Snifit
Why does the inked Snifit have a separate entry? I can understand grass Ninjis because they have different stats and moves, but the inked Snifit uses the regular model, just in a different color, and has no functional differences. It's also not listed in the museum. 18:23, October 31, 2021 (EDT)

I am not a Sniffit expert or anything but I can see why it could be just merged with the normal ones. Also, know anyone who can rip the models for the origami enemies cause I want to see the model for origami Rocky Wrench? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 18:42, October 31, 2021 (EDT)

I agree it's probably not necessary since it seems to just be an aesthetic difference. 19:55, October 31, 2021 (EDT)

Sprites
So how did you get the sprites/models for the origami enemies that are used for the bestiary and where were they in-game? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 13:17, November 7, 2021 (EST)
 * The model images were cropped out of museum screenshots, since the licensing is game-screenshot instead of game-3Drender. 13:31, November 7, 2021 (EST)

Full stats of nearly every enemy
I have scans for the enemy stats of every enemy including the damage of each attack. They can all be found here: https://www.marioboards.com/threads/44397/. I hope this is very helpful. (they are from a Japanese Guidebook of the game) MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 13:25, November 14, 2021 (EST)
 * I am surprised I've never seen those before, those are very useful scans. I was curious about the moves that didn't have listed damage amounts. Is (H) (denoted using the goomba as an example) meant to be the HP Mario must have to defeat them with a first strike? --Zaku (talk) 13:54, March 7, 2022 (EST)
 * After looking through to compare just the experimentally defined health values versus the ones listed in the scans you shared, I noticed that the values used for Spike and Dry Bones contradict, and the values used for Stingby and Ptooie were less precisely written in the wiki versus the scans. I will refrain from changing these values however, because it is possible the values were changed in game for some enemies without revising the related entries in the strategy guide. --Zaku (talk) 14:09, March 7, 2022 (EST)


 * Update, I double-checked the above inconsistencies in-game and the HP values do all match those mentioned in the guide. I went ahead and updated the values accordingly. 22:52, March 24, 2022 (EDT)

Item Drops
Mushrooms are an item that can sometimes drop from enemies such as Scaredy Rats, Gooombas, Cheep Cheeps, and Sidesteppers. Should this be put under item drops or not? --Zaku (talk) 14:14, March 7, 2022 (EST)
 * Definitely. 14:15, March 7, 2022 (EST)
 * I think item drops are pre-determined "sets", rather than individual for each enemy. I've looked at the data_item_set file in Darxoon's Origami Wand, and these are the drop groups:
 * "BTL_ZAKO_LV1"/"BTL_ZAKO_LV2"/"BTL_ZAKO_LV3": Coin, 10-Coin, Mushroom
 * "BTL_ZAKO_PAPER"/"BTL_ZAKO_PAPER_M"/"BTL_ZAKO_PAPER_L": Coin, 10-Coin, confetti (in increasingly high amounts)
 * "BTL_ZAKO_ITEM_L": Coin, 10-Coin, Lamination Suit
 * "BTL_ZAKO_GOLD": Coin, 10-Coin, 100-Coin
 * "BTL_ZAKO_BOOTS_KURIBOO": Flashy Boots, Flashy Iron Boots, Legendary Boots, or Legendary Iron Boots
 * "BTL_ZAKO_MEKAKOOPA": 10,000 Coins
 * We can't yet figure out which enemy has each set, and there's still more research to be done involving drop chance. 15:48, March 26, 2022 (EDT)

Group Attacks
So, we know the formula for group attacks, but it's a bit hard to explain in a small cell. I'll go into it more in detail. Is there any easier/more efficient way to include this on the sheet? 00:12, February 10, 2023 (EST)
 * Each attack has a base damage and a damage "range" that's added on when it hits. For instance, if the base damage is 7 and the range is 3, the attack can hit for 7, 8, 9, or 10 damage.
 * Many group attacks use this same formula, but the "range" rolls a different number for each enemy. If above attack hit 5 times, you might get 7, 7, 9, 9, and 10 (or any numbers inbetween).
 * The base damage, and the select "range", are determined by how many enemies are attacking at once. For example, Blooper's group attack has a range of 1 if there are two Bloopers, 2 if there are three Bloopers, all the way up to 9 if there are 10 Bloopers.
 * The damage without ranges can change as well: for example, the base damage of Snifit's group bullet move can be 4, 7, 10, 13, 16, 21, 22, 25, 26, or 30 depending on how many there are.