MarioWiki:Proposals

Writing guidelines
None at the moment.

Create articles on the River Survival routes in Super Mario Party
Honestly, I think there should be separate articles on the fifteen River Survival routes in Super Mario Party, as they always have fixed layouts and are in fixed locations. After all, I already created the Challenge Road worlds due to a precedent already set with the Minigame Island worlds from Mario Party: The Top 100, and this isn't too different.

Proposer: Deadline: November 9, 2019, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) Per proposal.
 * 2) - The more coverage the merrier (I still need to make some more merchandise pages....)
 * 3) - Per proposal.

Comments
This is the full list, in alphabetical order: - 18:02, October 26, 2019 (EDT)
 * Beyond the Jungle
 * Blooper Pools
 * Breakneck Pace
 * Cheep Cheep Schools
 * Cheep Cheep Swarms
 * Eye of the Needle
 * Gentle Beginning
 * High-Flying Balloons
 * Jumping Jeopardy
 * Kamek's Curse
 * Monster Attack!
 * Rapids Run
 * Rocky Sailing
 * Rugged Ramps
 * Waterfall Plunge

Removals
None at the moment.

Impose stricter policies for renaming files
I think the wiki should have stricter policies for renaming files, and I will give reasons why. Before I start, I need to explain that I start the file renaming craze. In August 2018, I saw some bad file names on the Donkey Kong Country page (e.g. KrashKlash.PNG) and felt it did not describe the article clearly enough. I moved the file name to File:Krash DKC.png. While it doesn't specifically mention "sprite" in the title, it still gives us a rough idea of what the subject is about. My file renaming led to Porplemontage adding in an extra rule on the image use policy.

Some months later, there has been a file renaming craze. Without getting into specifics here, this has not only led to correcting poorly named files. This has also led to minor things like "WW" being changed to Wario World simply because another game, Wario's Woods, has the same abbreviation. However, Wild Swing-Ding is obviously not in Wario's Woods, for others who know the game well enough.

Let's talk about the dashes/hyphens. Now I'm aware a recent rule has allowed them in subject name, but why should we move a file like File:CharacterSelect-SSBMelee.png if it already describes the subject clearly enough? A hyphen or space, it won't describe the file name any more or less. I have seen a lot of file names with parentheses (ex. File:Home-Run Contest (Super Smash Bros. Melee).jpg). Now for me, this isn't the most ideal way to name a file, but it still describes the article nonetheless. Sometimes it helps me not take a closer glance at the file name. For example, File:Yoshi Artwork - Mario Party 6.png. If the file were named it would not separate the game name from the character and subject. This are other files that I believe should not be renamed. Again, we should only rename if it is evident that the image could use with a better name or is not described clearly enough.

Another issue is the category, Category:Pages with broken file links. There's already 4,300+ pages in here, and if we keep renaming files unnecessarily, then it would only get larger and larger. I admit that I am guilty for adding to the list, since I have renamed/replaced many many images, but ultimately, does the average user want to be changing the file names on their userpage constantly? Only administrators can edit user pages as well, so users cannot fix the names of renamed images on their user pages.

Another thing is if I were quickly searching for a picture of, let's say, Rambi the Rhino. If all the images were named DKC Rambi or DKC2 Rambi, then it would be harder to find images on Rambi alone. Users could search on Rambi's article for images, but at least there's some diversity in file naming options. In my opinion, the diversity in file names corresponds to the inclusive nature of that Super Mario Wiki has.

File names are ultimately the backend to the wiki. It does not affect what the wiki is mainly about, providing content on the Mario, Yoshi, Wario, and my favorite series of them all, the Donkey Kong series. The file is displayed the same whether it has a hyphen, a space, or even all the words lumped together (the lattermost option can be convenient in some cases, for instance, so that a user does not have to alternate between the Shift key and spacebar; i personally like the visibility for filenames, but I am just noting the option is there). The average reader will not notice the difference to a file name at all. If 50 files are being moved every hour, the poor administrators are being put to work deleting all the redirects, when we could be focusing on more important issues, such as Category:Rewrite requested, Category:Image requested, or anything other under the maintenance category.

I think we could discuss some suggested naming standards to add to the image use policy. For example, I like the naming standard where it lists the subject, the game name/abbreviation, and then the type of image. The subject's name first because the image is about the character, the location, the item, etc. first and foremost. The game name or abbreviate shows the game that the character is in. Lastly, the type describes if the image is either artwork, sprite, screenshot, logo, etc. For example, Rambi DKC sprite.png. For the "type" part of the filename, i like to make it lowercase, since the 'type' is comparable to an identifier of an article. Words such as screenshot, sprite, and logo are common noun, so if I made them lowercase, it's quicker to distinguish the proper noun (like the game, character names) from the common noun (like the word 'sprite' or 'screenshot').

For screenshots, I tend to name based on whatever the context is about. For example, in Mario Kart Wii, if Luigi is racing in Wario's Gold Mine, during the part where he encounters many Swoopers, I would name it like a sentence, e.g. "Luigi and Swoopers in Wario's Gold Mine MKWii.png". Keep in mind this is only an example and a suggestion on one of many possible ways I would clearly describe the file in shortest terms possible. For screenshots such as the start of World 1-1 in the 1985 Super Mario Bros. there would be less options for clearly naming the file as it's only Mario (or Luigi in 2P mode). For a file like this, I would name it "World 1-1 SMB1 start.png".

In short, the proposal is to more strictly regulate on when users can rename files, such as only if the extension is uppercase, or if the subject is not described clearly enough or has redundancy (e.g. "3293 mario 1.jpg" could be more accurately renamed to 'Mario in Castle Courtyard SM64.jpg'). All the examples for naming that I gave are suggestions, and I'd love to hear the community's input on this proposal.

Proposer: Deadline: November 1, 2019, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) - I am the person who made the proposal.
 * 2) My thoughts exactly.
 * 3) - As someone with several gripes about the current file renaming craze (it floods the recent changes, breaks userpage files like crazy, and unnecessarily renames files), I have one word: Yes.
 * 4) - Tbh I don't really mind what kind of name a file has, as long as the name tells me what the file is about, then it's okay. If a file name uses the full name of the game instead of an abbreviated version, then no need to change the name, it still tells us what the file is about. If the file name is something like "File:9375073dk.PNG", then yeah, it needs to be changed cause it tells us basically nothing about what the file is about.

Oppose

 * 1) - See comment.
 * 2) - Per Alex95 primarily - this seems more strict than would reasonably be necessary, and as indicated by Trig, even if he does somewhat agree with the sentiment I think it still would've been much more preferable to discuss this at length with him prior to immediately going for a shift in policy.
 * 3) - I had to think long and hard about if I should make a statement here. Besides the comments I left, I want to be explicitly clear that we need a better system in place, in my opinion. However, this basically provides no real plan or structure to do so, and only really brings up the topic for people to be mindful of. I try my hardest to keep the impact of what I do as minimal as possible on both the Recent Changes page, and on the moderation staff's part. Until a formal plan that explicitly lists what actions will be taken to have a better naming scheme is made, I will be against the proposal.
 * 4) Per all. I see no reason to change anything at all.
 * 5) Proposed guidelines are too rigid to follow in my opinion, and I respectfully think Trig's solution is much better. Per all.
 * 6) Per Alex95.

Comments
Pretty sure the actual in-place rule is "don't rename files that are already named accurately," which has recently been broken to hell and back, thus annoying ME to hell and back. Anyways, I think that putting the game abbreviation before the subject makes infinitely more sense, as it's easier to find things in a licensing-based image category that way. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 01:11, October 25, 2019 (EDT)
 * If that's one of the rules, this proposal should help make the rule stricter and more enforced. Results May Vary (talk) 01:13, October 25, 2019 (EDT)

Well it's very very clear that this was targetted to me, or at least a majority of it is. I'm not necessarily upset about this, but I am somewhat disturbed by the fact that if I'm the main issue to you (the collective) here, that none of you would at least try to come to me about it? Hyphens were the only thing that were really ever brought up to me and even then a heavy majority of that conversation was more about what I was doing and not really asking why. There's nothing stopping me from explaining why I choose to rename a file except that virtually nobody consults me on it. I have a talk page too, y'know. If something isn't working out, like hyphens or WW being split to Wario's Woods/Wario World (which I still deem as a valid change), I would be delighted to work it out and reach a consensus. Please don't assume I won't try and work with you.

That's fine or whatever, I guess.

I'm close to supporting this, which may or may or not surprise you, with some exceptions in regards to Doc and I leaning more towards the Game-Object-Type format, and the disuse of parentheses in pages. I'm not sure if I would even stop there, either, as I think it would be better to rewrite/recreate the Image Use Policy to have a much clearer standard for the initial naming files, before addressing the rename of files as a new section.

To quote RMV, "Another thing is if I were quickly searching for a picture of, let's say, Rambi the Rhino. If all the images were named DKC Rambi or DKC2 Rambi, then it would be harder to find images on Rambi alone. Users could search on Rambi's article for images, but at least there's some diversity in file naming options. In my opinion, the diversity in file names corresponds to the inclusive nature of that Super Mario Wiki has." This statement is a part of why I have increased the general size of files I rename, because a lot of files have been along the lines of Mario1 or Waluigi3, which is not very descriptive.

EDIT (addition): Another interesting comment from TheDarkStar is "breaks userpage files like crazy". I actually do sometimes make talk page comments about the files I change if I know offhand that the user is active. I can do this at a higher frequency if so requested of me.

In short, my biggest intent is that I should be able to look at a file name and know what is in the image and what game the image is from without seeing the picture.

I think overall if this had a little more structure to what would be changed, I would be happy to both help create a standard and to sign on said standard. As of now, however, this seems more of a concept than an action. Trig - 10:46, October 25, 2019 (EDT)
 * Pretty sure I've said it multiple times in edit summaries, and a few times amidst other complaints on your talk page. Anyways, when a subject that has appeared in a zillion games has a generic image title, that's one thing, but ones that appeared only once ages ago don't need that kind of specificity, and you've been treating them with equal importance. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 12:17, October 25, 2019 (EDT)
 * I talked to Trig about this already, actually. 12:21, October 25, 2019 (EDT)

First of all, we don't need to be strict about how we name things. Game-type-subject is a suggestion, not a requirement. As long as the image says what it needs to, the file name is fine. However, there can be multiple images with the same subject, such as File:MP9 Mario.png and File:Mario MP9.png, so renaming them to be clearer is perfectly acceptable as well. The same holds true for images of subjects with both an artwork and a sprite image on the wiki, renaming the file to be distinct is helpful. But again, it's not a requirement, and it's up to the editor if they want to fix it. As for files with certain punctuation, I believe the reasoning is not everyone has access to the same marks. You can see this in page redirects that use a different apostrophe, so renaming the file to remove hyphens, dashes, parenthesis, etc. when the file's subject doesn't use them itself is also helpful, and I actually recommend it happens. For broken file links, things happen and time moves on. Images get deleted, moved, or replaced for a variety of reasons. There are 199,923 pages, 27,883 users with most having userpages, and 115,370 images as of this proposal. That's a total of 343,176 pages of some type of content to look through, so I perfectly understand not wanting to look through everything and keeping it to just mainspace. "Luigi and Swoopers in Wario's Gold Mine MKWii.png" - The Image use policy actually recommends against long names. Short and sweet is better. To conclude, Trig's filename movement has been, I'll say, 92% helpful so far. There are a few points where I move file names back (not to mention personal images and 'Shroom images), but I have had no problem with his file changes otherwise. 11:40, October 25, 2019 (EDT)
 * Look, the whole point of the proposal is for all of us to chill out about renaming too many filenames and let them be, so that we don't rename too many files. The proposal is not just about Trig but about all of us moving filenames. It's out of control. Results May Vary (talk) 15:07, October 25, 2019 (EDT)
 * Then, instead of going straight to a proposal that can be seen as trying to force people's hands, perhaps an actual discussion with the people in question would probably help smooth things out, especially if you're worried about flooding Recent Changes or something similar. And in any case, trying to get people to 'chill out' by arguing for stricter rule enforcement tends to have the opposite of the desired effect, at least in my experience. -- 15:23, October 25, 2019 (EDT)
 * Alex95, The subject-game-type format for filenames was only me recommending a suggested format for naming a file. I know the proposal was long but if Trig's name scheme wants to be suggested in image use policy as well, then I'm ok with that. I'm not trying to dictate the wiki with my filenames. I can see why there's confusion, so I'm trying my best to explain myself. Results May Vary (talk) 15:33, October 25, 2019 (EDT)
 * For the most part, a majority of the file names have been to get them to work with our policy. They're only following rules, though I did add an amendment earlier to keep punctuation in the subject's name. If there's any major problem, an admin will say something to the mover. 16:39, October 25, 2019 (EDT)
 * I was talking about dashes between words, for example: File:Mario-amiibo-yoshi.png. moving a filename like this solely to remove the dashes are the main problems in my opinion Results May Vary (talk) 16:43, October 25, 2019 (EDT)
 * I don't see why they should stay, either. It's far easier to just hit the space key, and the dashes don't really add to the file name. Sure, removing them doesn't really change much, but they aren't all that necessary, either. 16:49, October 25, 2019 (EDT)

I agree with the sentiment that images that already have clear titles shouldn't be renamed, and renaming titles specifically to remove things like dashes and hyphens is going overboard. That being said, this seems like something that needs a long discussion and probably shouldn't have been immediately rushed to the proposal stage. For that reason, I am remaining neutral. -- 16:32, October 25, 2019 (EDT)
 * I can see some are unsatisfied with my proposal. If it loses, can we settle on a compromise? for example only one change could be like: filenames with dashes should not be moved Results May Vary (talk) 19:07, October 26, 2019 (EDT)
 * A discussion would be necessary for something like that. Also, I'm for not moving filenames with dashes. 19:17, October 26, 2019 (EDT)

Miscellaneous
None at the moment.