MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/23



Remove Fake Bans/Warnings
Remove Fake Bans/Warnings 30-0

OK, now that I royally screwed up my last proposal, let's try this again: On more than a few userpages, I have seen ban notices saying a user has been blocked by ruling of Wario's Butt or something of that sort. These are immature, a waste of space, and can cause you to do a double-take before reading on and finding out that the user wasn't banned, they are just being extremely immature. So now that I've done this properly, let's get rid of this crap. {{scroll box|content= Proposer: {{User|Ralphfan}} Voting start: 2 September 2010, 00:00 GMT Voting closes: 9 September 2010, 00:00 GMT

Support

 * 1) – Per proposal.
 * 2) - *sigh*, here we go again. Anyways, those templates are annoying. They are warnings and are not to be toyed with.
 * 3) - These make sysops job much more difficult.
 * 4) - Per all
 * 5) get in my way. Per Proposal
 * 6) I agree. They are official templates and even if the wording and terms are changed, it could still easily confuse new users if they get one of those templates.
 * 7) – Per Tucayo, and Marioguy1.
 * 8) Well, if it's about warnings and bans, then per all!
 * 9) Per all.
 * 10) Well; reminders, warnings, and bans are not playthings, if you play with them, it could result in several users thinking they are Banned. Some people simply look, they do not always read the content of the template. Also, they are very immature due to the problems I said previously, and that their content contains utter gibberish in templates that are supposed to be very serious.
 * 11) Per all.
 * 12) I say per all.
 * 13) Per all and I recommend MCD to stop assuming.
 * 14) I disagree on your definition of "immature", but I'm still supporting. SYSOPs do not need to spend unnecessary amounts of time searching for warnings.
 * 15) No more Wario's butt nonsense. Per all.
 * 16) Per everybody. Yes, everybody.
 * 17) - Per all.
 * 18) - Ditto here.
 * 19) Per all.
 * 20) Per Lefty Green Mario.
 * 21) Per all.
 * 22) - Per all.
 * 23) - Per all, let's try not to make life miserable for the Sysops.
 * 24) - Per all.
 * 25) I agree.
 * 26) Per all. Stupid people spamming with templates. I really agree with the immature part, obviously, too.
 * 27) - Per all.
 * 28) - Those are annoying and when you actually do have a block template up it confuses you.
 * 29) - I agree, I feel all bad for that user that they were blocked, and then I read and think, ohhhh... jerks.
 * 30) People that do that are jerks.Per all.

Comments
Now that I've realized the full effects of my other one, let's just get on with this.


 * I'm not sure navboxes are covered under this either, since they aren't an imitation of any real template. Actually, what exactly is the definition of a fake template? That doesn't seem to be clarified anywhere in this proposal.

This only covers ban notices and warning notices. Navboxes are OK.


 * Yeah, I tried to write that in the original version of this and it didn't work right >_>

So, will the other one get deleted?

Once enough admins agree, I guess.

@2257: To answer your question, a fake template is when a user uses the HTML code for the template rather than the template itself. That way, you don't see the list of pages that links to it on the bottom.

Can this include fake maintenance templates too?
 * Except the Under Construction, because users usually don't finish everything at once.

@MrConcreteDonkey: isn't allowed in userpace.
 * BLOF: No, nothing uses HTML code on a wiki, it all uses wikicode. HTML code is kind of the same yet very different. Anyways, yes, that is a fake template. No, that does not include userboxes due to which is a real template with parameters. However it does include all fake construction templates, fake infobox templates and fake warnings.
 * Oh, and I thought this wiki uses HTML the ENTIRE time x_X

@MG1: Construction templates aren't fake, they just aren't allowed in userspace.
 * "However it does include all fake construction templates". *sigh*

@Ralphfan: I'll support if you add fake maintenance templates on since they have as much significanse as the fake warnings and tal pages. Also, can fake talk page proposals on user talks be banned too?

@MrConcreteDonkey: Yes, yes they are. :)
 * Sorry for being a little harsh, but I get irritated REALLY easily. I can't help it. Please, STOP IT. It makes us look bad.
 * Agreed, putting people down isn't nice. Anyways, I don't really think the fake maintenance templates are that much of a bad thing. They're immature but they don't hurt anyone.
 * I hope MrConcreteDonkey changes his vote. He's the one that look bad right now :P

I don't know what's the big issue on fake construction templates. They are on user pages. What makes you think a USERpage needs rewrite or more images uploaded? I think the people who put fake templates on their page just have some sense of humor, not a sense of immaturity. Of course, opinions differ for each person. Bottom-line: fake rewrites do no harm at all.
 * Mainly because new users tend to place real templates into their pages when they see we had done it and we have to go through the issue of notifying them or removing them. Other than that, there is no harm done.

Alright, sorry LGM and BLOF. I guessed since you opposed the last one immediately, but I guessed wrong and forgot that the 1st one was for all fake templates.
 * It's ok. I first started shouting at you, but then, I removed my comment because I got over it. I accept your apology.

Do you think anyone will fall for this???:

(Removed, due to its contents altering the scrollbox template)


 * No, but it does take up space and ultimately is pointless.

OH, PLEASE! Who in the right mind would agree with that hacked template? Also, Per MrConcreteDonkey. Takes up space and is worthless.
 * Me, in my left, evil mind, cuz I created them :(. It is pointless, but it does show a little of your personality.
 * Next time, make your own template or ask the person before putting it on comments. Thank you.

I feel stupid but, what does "per all" mean?
 * It basically means "I agree with everyone supporting/opposing" (whichever applies), but it's much less effort/time to type. 18:58, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

}}

Making Paper Mario Badge Attack Articles
Do not create Paper Mario Badge Attack Articles 9-14

I think we should make articles on attacks in the first two Paper Marios that you can only use by the use of a badge (i.e. Quake Hammer, Multibounce). It would be necessary to the wiki, since these ARE attacks of Mario's, and even if he needs a badge to use them they still are attacks of his. {{scroll box|content= Proposer: {{User|Mileycyrussoulja}} Voting start: 2 September, 2010, 12:00. Deadline: 9 September, 2010, 23:59 GMT.

Support

 * 1) I support this proposal and I agree that these attacks should get their own articles.
 * 2) They're ATTACKS. The partner's attacks like Multibonk has seperate articles. So we're saying Mario is LESS important than his allies that appear in one game? Also the other badges aren't needed because they only have effects which will be stubs. This is an ATTACK, and will definitly have more info.
 * 3) Per Booderdash.
 * 4) I taught you meant badges. If it's about attacks, then per booderdash.
 * 5) Per all.
 * 6) Per all.
 * 7) Per all.
 * 8) Per all.
 * 9) Per Booderdash.

Oppose

 * 1) I am Zero! Oppose to the reasoning of that will be an unprofessional idea to only make all the attack-type badges into articles and not the other badges into articles. Zero signing out.
 * 2) Too minor to have an article, belong in the badge's article.
 * 3) - Per all
 * 4) Well, most of the attack badges would not warrant a description longer than a few sentences, they are not more notable than the other badges, just because they are attacks does not mean they have long descriptions. Not to mention, most of the badge attacks are alterations of Mario's pre-badge attacks, thus the do not deserve articles.
 * 5) Badges =/= Attacks. Many short and crappy articles will be created with this. No, just no.
 * 6) Badge attacks are not permanent attacks, unlike the partner attacks. When you get them (if you get them, that is), you can unequip them. Anyway, almost all of them are just souped up versions of Mario's regular attacks, with maybe a different side-effect here and there. Per all.
 * 7) - I mean with a few of them you could, but this proposal is all of them, and not all of them will be necessary articles. Rather have the badge page longer than have like 30+ stubs.
 * 8) Per all.
 * 9) - Per GF75.
 * 10) - You can't make a long-worthy article for just a badge, It'll be a lot of space and people could get a harder/complex navigation over the site
 * 11) - Per all.
 * 12) Per all.
 * 13) Imagine all the stubs there would be. Also not enough info to give each badge specific attack an article.
 * 14) Per all.

Comments
Wouldn't this be better as a Pipe Project?

Agreed.

Couldn't this be done by making an article that contains all the Badge Effects (if such an article doesn't exist already)?

Its already done in the Badge article. But the MOVES need seperate articles because they're MOVES.
 * What, so an article describing what happens when you use Move Badges?

@Booderdash: Do you realize how many stubs we're gonna have here?

@Frosty, no like how Multibonk has an article, we make articles for Tornado Jump, Power Jump, Power Smash, Ice Smash etc. @FF65, I don't see how we're going to have that many stubs. I mean they're as important as the special moves for Mario Power Tennis. And the moves can be explained in detail. They're also better than Plane Mario.

Well, if all attack badges are given their own articles, shouldn't ALL badges have separate articles?

Why? All other badges only give effects that can be explained with one line. In attacks, many sentences can be written, and it won't be a stub All the other badges will be stubs.

Well, you can not always "write many sentences" for every attack badge, most of them do things that warrant only a sentence or two.

Not the attack BADGE, but the ATTACK. Like Power Bounce. I don't see how thats less of an importance than Multibonk.

Well, I fail to see how that would work with any positive affects.

Then explain why Multibonk, Kiss Thief, Power Lift etc. has articles, because they're just attacks too.

Um..., Gamefreak, I think you're misunderstanding us. We DON'T want to create articles for BADGES, we want to create articles for ATTACKS like Tornado Jump, Ice Smash, and Power Bounce.

Well, two of those three you said should not have articles, If a certain type of badge has an article, they all must, it is one of are policies. Making an article on a badge attack but not the badge itself, that would simply not work.

Look, you probablt don't even have the game. The badge only ALLOWS you to use the attack, but we want to make an article ON the attack. Like Kiss Thief, and Power Lift. So that is ok.

Well, me having the game has nothing to do with this wiki, the badge is functionally what you need to use the attack, thus if the attack deserves a page, the Badge does too. What I mean is, the badge page is created, with the attack in it, if it is created at all, wich it should not.

No, the BADGE name is the EXACT same as the attack so Tornado Jump the badge would be the same thing as the attack. You would need the game to understand, thats why I mentioned it.

Well, I can not under stand you reasoning, what I meant to say was to make a page of the BADGE not the ATTACK, if make the pages at all.

The proposal is about making the attack! Not the badge! Badges only invoke the attacks.

Well, I know that, the pages badge or Attack should not be created, they would cause many stubs, just because they are attacks does not mean they are notable enough for a page.

Any badge attack is notable like any other one. That's why Booderdash said that you should have the game!

Well, any badge is as important as it's own attack are each other. Also, The fact about me not having has no say in the matter.

Yes it does. It means you don't understand the concept of the attack. You NEED the game to understand or maybe just the original Paper Mario. And the badge isn't important, which you'll clearly know if you have the game, its the ATTACK that is.

Well, the badge and the attack it causes have functionally the same notability, the attacks are are slightly altered versions of Mario's normal attacks.

Is it? Multibonk is the exact same as Headbonk, but repeated alot of times, and Power Bounce is a jump repeated alot of times.

Booderdash, It sounds like you are agreeing with me, the pages you want to be made should not be made because they are not notable enough. The attack badges attacks simply alter Mario's (or his partner's) by adding an effect.

Aha! But you see thing thing is they DO have articles, and for THIS consistency to work, we need to make articles for this, since I doubt many people will agree on deleting those articles anways.

Booderdash, the badges nor their effects do not have articles, they are not notable enough for their own articles.

All, the badges are merged together, so why on earth can't we just merge all the attacks?

Agreed, but the badge attacks are already merged.

I guess we could just merge them all. But I just have a feeling not man people would agree on it. I don't know, I guess we can try. (We need to mae a proposal about it first though.) But another thing to note, none of the moves like Multibonk are stubs, so I don't see how Power Bounce will be a stub either.

Baby Mario Bloops, there are only 10ish attacks in Ttyd, and I doubt all of them are going to be stubs.

Well, there is not sufficient proof that the pages would be long enough not to be stubs, not to mention, the badges(and/or their effects) are not notable enough anyway for pages.

They wouldn't be stubs because Multibonk isn't a stub, and Power Bounce is practically the same thing. Plus things like Ice Smash has even MORE detail (like Freezeing) to be put into the article.

Well, Multibonk is not a badge attack, and powerbounce equals Multibonk, Ice smash has little information that could be produced about it. The badge attacks are only the effects the badge has on Mario's (or his partner's) attacks.

Thats my POINT. How comes MULTIBONK gets an article, while Power Bounce doesn't? Its basically just Partner's attacks VS Mario's attacks.

Why does everyone keep on thinking we're making the article about the badge? We're making it about the ATTACK.

Well, how many time do I have to tell you; the badge causes the "attack," and the "attacks" are simply effects on Mario's (or his partner's) attacks, nothing more nothing less. This is why the do well as a list, they do not have that much information about them that is different from the normal attacks.

I don't care about that, I mean practically everyone else thinks that we're making it ON the badge.

Well, You do not care, not they do not, they think (hopefully) that the badge is equal to the attack, neither of them deserves an article.

Well, if they have the game, they would know that it wasn't. Btw, I think MCS made the description rather misleading and I bet is confusing people...

You are getting of topic, enough about having the game, it does not always matter, in terms of what you are trying to do. I do not have the game and I understand completely what you are trying to do.

No, you don't understand. Its because you don't have the game. I mean so according to your logic, if FPS fanboys say Mario is for kiddy wimps and that they understand that, that means they're right. Its because they never played the game! You always need to either watch the movie, read the book, or play the game before you understand things about it.

I can understand giving a few of the badge specific attack their own articles but there probably won't be enough there to make a good article. A couple probably might if they appeared in more than just one of the Paper Mario games.

Well Booderdash, lets get back on topic, what do you mean "It's because they never played the game," you can understand the game if you read it's own article on this wiki. Also Stapler, we can not give just give a few of them pages, we have to give all of them pages or none of them, it is one of our policies.

All your doing is nitpicking an issue if your going to create seperat articles for attacks then you need to make seperate articles for everything

Well, Read what I said again, you obviously do not know what I mean, and it is one of our policies, not a guideline. Read our policies again and come back after you do so. Also, please speak more clearly. }}

Make a "No Spam" Usertalk Page Policy
Make a No Spam Usertalk Page Policy 22-0

Recently, a bunch of friends of mine (you know who you are) placed a lot of images in my talk page. Though it was funny at first, it considerably stretched my userpage and extended it, so it gave me really bad loading times. Same goes for copying text from certain articles and placing them into my talk page, which also extends it until the loading server lags extensively just to load up my talk page in case it has new messages.

What I'm proposing is a new policy to prevent "spamming" user talk pages with images or text (this also includes friendly encounters). "Spamming" the talk pages with a load of images and text not only gives it a big deal to load up a page and stretches it horizontally, it also gives users like me a hard time to navigate through them to find any new messages a user might put. Plus, we are forced to make another archive as soon as this occurs. I know I can just remove them myself, but it is much easier if the "spamming" is prevented in the first place. Any "spamming" of the past will be kept, but any future "spamming" will get immediately deleted in user talk pages. I do not think that spamming" improves talk pages in any way. Talk pages are supposed to be used for chatting with other users, rather than fill it up with useless content. It also makes it harder for the administration and others to work through the pages if they want to drop a comment or something.

I'm also proposing this to be enforced, just in case it happens to any unwary user, ignorant user, or a user who just wants to play around with his/her friends. {{scroll box|content= Proposer: {{User|BabyLuigiOnFire}} Voting start: 6 September 2010, 20:33 GMT Deadline: 12 September 2010, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) - It was really annoying how you had to scroll to the side in order to read the messages and it did take more time to load with all that crap on it.
 * 2) No more giant user talkpages.
 * 3) When I look at my comment, it streched longer than my screen.
 * 4) - I mean it looks nice at first, but then you scroll down forever! Per all.
 * 5) I am Zero! I don't even need to read the proposal, spam on the talk page, no, support, per all. Zero signing out.
 * 6) - When I first saw all that Wario Spam, I decided that the spamming users were "Wario Weirdos". I then tried to avoid their talkpages as much as possible; not because they love Wario, but because those giant talkpages are annoying nuisances.
 * 7) Per all.
 * 8) Yeah, everyone's completely right, and specifically Wario spam covers up talk pages. One or two images? Whatever. Enough to make the server lag and stretch a talk page? No.
 * 9) - SPAM is defined as Stupid Pointless Annoying Messages; what is going on the talk pages is stupid, pointless and annoying so I think it falls under that category.
 * 10) - Per proposal.
 * 11) Goodbye spammed FF65 and BLOF's pages, good bye good old wario, good...ahem, per alll.
 * 12) I have to say per all. Takes forever to load a talk page on my netbook and a while to load on my PC. Wonder what would happen if something like Walkazo's computer or a DSi had to load up a 60,000 bytes+ page. It probably would explode. It's not annoying (in the "spammers" perspective) because the people "spamming" the pages were doing this to each other for fun. Why would ANY computer would want to load a page full of disgusting Warios anyway?
 * 13) BLOF's talk page literally broke my cell phone.
 * 14) I agree. Not everyone uses high speed internet ya know!
 * 15) Because spam is usually not good.
 * 16) Imagine this scenario: You're going to reply to a friend's comment. You click the link to their talkpage that has a dubious fluorescent green background. For some reason it takes over 10 minutes to load. When it finally loads, you are confronted with literally thousands of giant Wario images repeated over and over and over... Eventually you scroll away from that hideous monstrosity into the comfort of your section. Oh dear, Wario spam has stretched the page all the way across the Atlantic. And then the damn advertisement to the right blocks the Edit tab. Then your computer promptly gives up and explodes before you can lose the will to live due to Wario spam. End Scenario. Per all.
 * 17) Yup. Good idea - Per y'all (did I actually just say that?)
 * 18) I don't get a whole lotta messages, but I don't want it to happen to me later. Ever.
 * Yup, it gets annoying to try to read those pages. Per all, except Marioguy1. It originally came from a Monty Python sketch about spam, Spiced ham.
 * 1) Per all.
 * 2) Per all.
 * 3) (Ah, I finally received permission to create a new account, due to my lost password. I can vote again! This is just in time, too...) Oops! err...ahem: Per CosmicRedToad, Mr bones, Booderdash, Marioguy1, DaisyRox02, Zero777, Frostyfireyoshi, Beecanoe, Mechayoshi, Sgt. Boo, and especially CosmicRedToad.

Comments
Wouldn't it be much easier if you just added a rule about this in your talk page?
 * Yes, that's better
 * I concur.

The problem is, people tend to ignore rules. I want to enforce that specific rule about spamming. Besides, when people do that anyway, it just takes up server stress and it's harder for other users to leave a message, or the owner of the talk page to find his/her message


 * If people ignore your rules, then notify it in their talk page.
 * No, I'm going to ENFORCE the rule, so it can be prevented.
 * Aww you don't like my beautiful gifts of Wario? I can't oppose then.
 * Yeah, I do like them, but after a while, I was forced to archive, and forced to view my talk page using "last change" instead of viewing it. It also caused a lot of hassle to load everything up. I do like it when you do that, but sometimes, fun does screw things up :( That's why I'm proposing this. Yes, I do regret it, but I'm doing it for what's good.

IMO this classifies as common sense, do not spam. If people don't follow it, they should get warned.
 * That's what I thought too, but some people also want to play around with their friends by adding a horrendous amount of pictures. This also causes server stress and huge loading times.


 * I do think that all those Wario pics were annoying(even though I pasted some on), but why would they be considered spam?
 * They're not spam as long someone who receives them likes them. I said "spamming", it's not actual spamming :D

}}

Expand Main Page to contain all content
Oppose 1-24

What I liked about the main page was I could discuss featured images and vote on polls and all that stuff. The polls left, I was disapointed. However, they brought the polls back, but my other spot the featured images, was gone. It seems that, for stuff to come in, others must go. The way to solve that problem, expand the main page! We want to fit all the stuff everyone loves onto the first page they see when they enter the wiki.

Alright, so that idea sucked hard, but would anyone be against adding content that wasn't put on their before? We could have character of the week, user of the week, and new pages on the main page. Plus, we could improve the polls a little bit, I think it changes less often than it used to, as well as not including past polls from the last time they did the polls thing.

{{scroll box|content= Proposer:{{User|Beecanoe}} Voting start:9 September 2010, 00:00 GMT Voting closes:16 September 2010, 00:00 GMT

Support

 * 1) Per proposal.

Oppose

 * 1) The reason the FI was gone was gone was because IT WAS USELESS. We replaced it with the polls for more of a participation feel! FI's was a waste of space!
 * 2) - The main page is meant to be a quick introduction to the wiki. There's some general information, links, important announcements, a place showing our best content, a place showing the important changes to the wiki, a place for recent news, a place for interesting additions, a poll to make it more interactive, a box for the 'shroom because the 'shroom is awesome like that and a NIWA box. We don't need the quote of the day, it's just a random quote, 5% of the time it's actually funny and the other 95% it's stupid. The FI process was also shut down so I don't see how anyone could add a box for that considering it doesn't exist but, assuming you're planning to restart the system, there are enough images on the main page as is. Granted once in a blue moon the FIs actually produce an image that looks good but there's a very small chance of that happening (as was demonstrated before we shut it down) so the pictures in the FA and Nintendo news sections pretty much represent the image quality of the wiki. The main page is supposed to be brief and have only the most important things, let's keep it that way.
 * 3) Woah...Per MG1's gargantaun lecture...
 * 4) - Per MG1.
 * 5) Per The One & Only MG1.
 * 6) Per MG1.
 * 7) FIs are worthless, the main page is fine as it is.
 * 8) I am Zero! Per MG1, MCD, and my comments below. Zero signing out.
 * 9) Well, the FIs were rather bad, and their voting system was absolutely terrible. No to mention, the Quote of the day was a pointless process, as the quotes that made it there were not always good, because The Mario series does not have many excellent quotes that could go there.
 * 10) Per all!
 * 11) Per all.
 * 12) Per MG1. Also, LuigiMania: LUMA <3 the FI.
 * 13) Although the main page looks a little plain to me, I do not want the Featured Images to return. Plenty of crap got featured due to fan voting. The quote of the day was just a filler. If you want more stuff on the main page, what do you want to add?
 * 14) I disagree with everything that is on the propsal exept the FI part. I was extremely upset when they were taken off. Poll of the day should'nt be there. Neither should "Did You Know?" That's my opinion.
 * 15) Per Marioguy1, FF65, and Emperor Yoshi
 * 16) – Per all.
 * 17) Main page overload and computer crashes galore. Per all.
 * 18) While FIs could be occasionaly good, there are only so many quality pics that Nintendo have produced- sure, they make new games, but not as often as we uploaded new images. I like the polls, per all.
 * 19) - There aren't a lot of images that deserve the feature image status, which is likely the reason why featured images were discontinued.
 * 20) I don't miss what ever's gone- per oh so all!
 * 21) I miss FIs HEAPS, but this proposal doesn't sound like a good idea. Per all
 * 22) - Per MG1.
 * 23) Per all.
 * 24) - All information = overload = more failures to get to sight = problems for all of us.

Comments
The problem is not space, the problem is the system behind the FI's, it was a total fail.
 * Yeah, although we could bring back the community template, we'd have to also bring back FIs to balance the main page. The FIs should stay gone, since the whole voting system was terrible.
 * I am Zero! ....For some reason I would sort of consider this a joke proposal since it's just what he wants. He's not really thinking of the space and memory it will take up and download time. Zero signing out.

Well, maybe this should just be for the 'Projects Seeking Contributors' and maybe a 'Quote of the Day'.
 * Quote of the Day was stupid, it was just a random quote chosen. And Projects Seeking Contributors is a section of the Pipe Plaza. Read that instead.

yeah and the polls are useless to since they really dont do anything by take up space
 * The polls are a good extra to the main page. They are as pointful as the DYK, and a bit of fun..
 * The polls take up space, yes, but what do you want to replace it with? Sometimes, taking up space is a good thing. video games are pointless and take up space; let's prohibit them.
 * I am Zero! You're just thinking for yourself, what about the people who can't access the main page as quick as you. Zero signing out.
 * I'm not selfish, it's just that empty space sometimes needs to be filled in with something. I'm not saying that taking space is always a good thing. Unnecessary space leads to server slowdown, but we won't allow a main page with blank gaps. Besides, I use a Netbook, which is a very lightweight laptop, which means it's not as fast as most PCs. The page might load quite quickly, but that's because my Firefox blocked the ads.
 * Character of the week? Seriously? That's practically what FA is just narrowed down onto the characters! Who needs that? They can just go on the Charcter's page and look at it there, and what if the "Chatacter of the Week" is a stub?
 * Why don't we just leave it as is? Nobody will ever agree on one thing, if we did, what would this page be for? The sysops and such have decided on the way the page currently is. We should respect their decisions.

Gargantuan lecture...sorry, I'm not accusing you of anything but should I make my future arguments shorter? I don't know if you prefer a more detailed version which will be very long or a short simple overview of my points...I personally like the longer paragraphs because they cover every (or almost every) objection that anyone could make but more people are likely to read something short and sweet...anyways, which do you (in general) like better?
 * I, personally, prefer the long ones. Long votes are the best; they make me want to consider all the possibilities and vote (whether I vote for or against, it makes me want to vote.)

Personally, would like a page or two just visible to users. I may not be edited as frequently, but that would matter. It would just be people who can change it. I'm not saying bring back featured images, but we could have things like progress on things like pipe projects or something. Maybe even come up with a better way to show good pictures. Some stuff that we as users need/want to see and doesn't concern others. And if that stuff belongs on the forum, I certainly can't find anything. (You can discuss this bunny trail more on my talk page.) Back to the point. I am fine with the main page as it is. Just suggesting a different approach to add more content.
 * Pages not visible to the general public is a bad idea. All of our pages should be viewable by everyone. If it's even possible to do that, it's still a bad idea. Other than that, we don't need to show people "good" pictures - aesthetics is a matter of opinion. We have no standards of what makes a "good" image as seen by the old FI process where you did not require a reason to vote. Some people like pictures, some don't, we can't classify pictures as good and bad. And "progress on PipeProjects" can be noted in an article for the Pipe Project. If the creator of the project does not wish to do that, it's no big deal.

}}