Talk:Koopalings

Anybody think we could use this image somewhere, its assembled sprites of what the Koopalings would have looked like in Super Princess Peach. -- Sir Grodus
 * Would have looked like. It's not canon because it's custom sprites. 16:12, 21 January 2007 (EST)

Klaus Kratchet
 * That is NOT custom. It was found in the ROM.

Heirs?
How are they ALL bloody heirs? I'm fairly sure that the eldest would be the heir. That is, Ludwig. MamaWaluigi 16:28, 20 August 2007 (EDT)

Who says any of them are heirs? Bowser is still in command. 16:36, 20 August 2007 (EDT)
 * The bloody page does. MamaWaluigi 13:59, 21 August 2007 (EDT)
 * Mind your language, cursing is monitored on the wiki. - 14:01, 21 August 2007 (EDT)
 * But that wasn't a curse. And what is wrong with cursing? Even 9-year olds do it. Although, it is an outburst of over-emotion, it's not that bad. MamaWaluigi 19:24, 22 August 2007 (EDT)

I agree with MamaWaluigi, Ludwig should be next in line, however if something should happen to both Bowser and Ludwig, I think the second oldest should be next in line. (This, of course, being that "King" Ludwig having no koopalings himself).Shadow Master 15:28, 28 May 2010 (EDT)

TV Show Names
When they're not named Von Koopa and Koopa Jr. in TAoSMB3, why do their pages say so? - 14:41, 19 September 2007 (EDT)

I changed the Ludwig article around; Big Mouth only had Jr. in his name in DVD features, which the article states. -- Sir Grodus

For both names and ages, would the show be considered as canon as the games? I mean, Nintendo had no connection as far as I know, and plenty of things happened that seem doubtful for game canon. PPF
 * See here. In short: There is no official canon in the Mario series. 17:48, 24 August 2009 (EDT)

Kinda Pointless...
I don't really see the point in having this article if we already have ones on the individual Koopalings, seems redundant; anyone else agree? -- Sir Grodus

Well, I dunno. The Koopalings page has more info on the koopalings as a group, and the other ones have different info based on the individual koopaling, so in that case, all the articles including this one is valuable to the Wiki. --The Game Prince

Bowser Jr.
He is NOT a Koopaling, they scrapped the Koopalings for him, they never appeared in a real game since Bowser Jr. popped up.
 * The Koopalings have since been used to describe all of Bowser's children, and Bowser Jr. is one of his children.
 * Bowser Jr. was never actually called a "Koopaling", and the originals where always called the "Koopalings", after Bowser Jr. appeared it seems they retconed it so that the Koopalings never existed, and that Bowser only had one kid. So it wouldn't be "Koopalings" and he would not be a "Koopaling".
 * Fine, keep him off the page.
 * Ehm, the Koopalings did appear in Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga, after Bowser Jr.'s appearance in Super Mario Sunshine. - 03:39, 29 September 2007 (EDT)
 * I wouldn't say the Koopalings have been retconned out of existance, since there's still the ocassional referrence to them, like in Super Paper Mario, or the unused sprites in Super Princess Peach. Funny how they're referrenced in games where Bowser Jr. never appears. It's like there's two Mario Universes or sommething (JK). I know that Iggy (or was it Larry) made a brief cameo at the start of Super Mario Sunshine when FLUDD scans Mario, but that just screws things around even more. -- Booster
 * The Sunshine appearance of Iggy was only to show an image of Super Mario World. It has no value when discussing whether Bowser Jr. is a Koopaling or not. -  05:54, 30 September 2007 (EDT)

Is it possible Bowser Jr is all the Koopalings combined into one?--Bob-omb Boris 06:14, 3 August 2009 (EDT)

Now that Bowser Jr. has been confirmed to appear in NSMB Wii along with the other Koopalings, is he or is he not on now? Luigifan95 22:52, 19 October 2009 (EDT)
 * He is not, until he officially gets called one. - 22:58, 19 October 2009 (EDT)

I'd say he's not, since they make a point of keeping him separate from the others in NSMB Wii, see where he jumps on top of the cake and they beside it. He seems like a superior to them. PPF

I heard someone say that in the official guide for NSMBW say that Bowser Jr. is one of the Koopalings, and that they are all still kids, but i can't confirm that, if someone can please do so. Besides it doesn't make any sense if bowser jr. isn't one of them, Kooplaings (AKA Bowser Kids) it's just "Koopa Sibblings", as all of them have Bowser as father, it wouldn't make any sense separate them. --CookiePinguy 12:26, 14 November 2009 (EST)

The term "Koopaling" does not just refer to them being Bowser's children. This goes back to how the Japanese names are translated - in Super Mario Bros. 3, they were first known as the Kokuppa 7 Kyôdai (Seven Koopaling Siblings), and in New Super Mario Bros. Wii they are instead called the Kokuppa 7 Ninshû (Team of Seven Koopalings) and the Kokuppa no Teshi'ta (Subordinate Koopalings). The basic gist is that they work as a group; Bowser Jr. is not a Koopaling in this sense because he was either to young to join their ranks, or that he's heir to the thrown (or both). LinkTheLefty 11:30, 2 January 2011 (EST)

Nintendo
What happened to Nintendo,huh?They don't wanna put the Koopalings anymore? Also Bowser Jr. isn't a Koopaling 'cause he isn't referred as one only Bowser's child.

It's probably just easier to use one character than seven (or eight). -- Sir Grodus 15:24, 10 December 2007 (EST)

Agreed (and go to the forums). 21:28, 10 December 2007 (EST)

Merge
Should we merge all the Koopaling article with the Koopalings article?
 * No, unlike Ashley and Red, The Koopalings all have enough individual info (Different battle tactics, action in the DIC cartoon trilogy... ect.) to be worthy of their own articles.

Blitzwing

Bowletta
Was it ever stated that the Koopalings were actually fooled into thinking she was their father? They could've just been following her orders so they weren't punished, or they could've been hypnotized (which I think is the since they curiously didn't have any lines in the game). As for whether or not Junior's a Koopaling I just say he is 'cause it's easier to talk about Bowser's kids as "the Koopalings" as opposed to "The Koopalings and Bowser Jr."; still, Nintendo hasn't said he is one so I have no problem with listing him as somewhat seperate from the original Koopalings (as he is in the article at the moment), it seems like a sensible compromise between the two views. - Walkazo

We can probably just remove that stuff about Bowletta in the trivia completely, since we don't know the actual circumstances how they came to work for her and don't want to dwelve too far into speculation. -- Sir Grodus 17:02, 5 January 2008 (EST)

Personality and strength
I'm really confused with the Koopaling's abilities, and how they are in relation with their personality and strength.

- Larry seems to be a sportive guy, as it is seen in "Hotel Mario" and "M&L: Superstar Saga". So he may be a bundle of power, always wanting someone to play tennis (or another game) with him.

- Morton is big and a bit fat. So he may love eating (or may he even like Sumo-ringers?)

- Wendy seems only to think about her bracelets, rings and her makeup. She may be very greedy, wanting everything she has not (as her personality is described in the TV Show)

- Iggy may be the crazy inventor of the koopa family. He invents thinks, that may not always work correctly, but sometimes are really good (like the mechs he built in "Yoshi's Safari")

- Roy seems to be a stereotypical bully, thinking that he is the coolest and the strongest of all. He may just have fun with beating weaker ones (like he did with Iggy in the Comics)

- Lemmy likes jumping around on his ball, so he may be the family's clown. Despite of being the second oldest, he is the smallest, and the crybaby (he cries in "M&L: Superstar Saga", when he is hit)

- Ludwig finally, seems to be the most intelligent member of the family, not an inventor like Iggy, but a creative head, as he likes composing (what Shigeryu Miyamoto may have thought when he created him, so he gave him the hair of Ludwig van Beethoven)

And to have something to compare their strength, you could take "M&L: Superstar Saga". I don't know their exact values in HP and attack strength, but I think I have a row that could be right:

- Lemmy and Wendy may be the weakest, as they both seem to have lesser HP than every other Koopaling. So they make self-copies to hide their weakness, but this is no help for them (even not Wendy's time Bob-omb)

- Iggy, Morton and Larry don't seem to be very special in attack strength and HP, but this may only be because Iggy and Morton are the first of the Koopalings and Larry is the youngest.

- Ludwig and Roy may be the strongest ones, mith seemingly the most HP of the Koopalings and the most dangerous attacks (Lundig's shell spin and Roy's multiple shockwaves). By my thoughts, Ludwig' shell spin is the strongest attack of all Koopalings, but Roy is also very dangerous because of his many HP and his time Bob-omb. Ludwig van Koopa

A lot of that is just speculation though. Interesting, but not applicable to the article. FD09

I Have a Dream (Not That One)
Most of you can see I've been cleaning this article a lot lately. I just want everyone to know they won't even recognize it by the time I'm ready to nominate it to be featured. Look forward to a quality increase. FD09

I think it was you, who wrote that the birth order of the Koopalings is not confirmed at all, so I write it in this section of the talk:

When it is only confirmed that Larry is the youngest and Ludwig the oldest, not only the order they are fought in SMB3 could be their birth order, but the order they are fought in NSMBWii as well. I think their new order would be a bit more likely, as Morton is now the biggest (and maybe the second oldest), and Lemmy may now be one of the youngest Koopalings, as he is the smallest. Ludwig van Koopa

Hmm, I don't recall messing with much birth order info. HOWEVER. Regardless of what you might speculate towards, other than what is stated in the VIDEO GAMES, regardless of a koopalings size or appearance order does not matter unless STATED. No speculation allowed sorry. FD09

Personality and Such
Are all of the traits on their perosnalityes from just the video games? If not, when it says something like Ludwig is cruel, in needs to make an example of it that clarifies if it is a trait form the video game sor something else. Panchito

Full names
Now I am full aware that it don't say this, but shouldn't each of the Koopalings be Prince (or Princess in Wendy's case) like Prince Bowser Koopa Jr. They are the Koopa Kingdom's heirs, King Bowser's kids, makes since to me- Clarkmaster!
 * You have a good point, but those parts of their names are never mentioned in the video games or cartoons (as far as I know), so it can not go into the article.

Photos
Can someone explain why we cannot have photographs of each Koopaling?--ThatlovesIggy 15:37, 29 March 2010 (EDT)

I understand we have main articles for photos, but wouldn't it be better for the article to have photos there?--ThatlovesIggy 15:42, 29 March 2010 (EDT)


 * The sections of text are far too small to have an image near them. With a decent-sized image of each Koopaling by each section of text, the article would become cluttered. Because of this, the image at the top of the page will suffice.

Bowser Jr. is a Koopaling?
I sent an e-mail to Nintendo Italy and I asked if Bowser Jr. is a Koopaling. They responded at me with:

Dear Customer, we inform you that the Koopalings are 8 (Bowser Koopa Jr., Larry Koopa, Morton Koopa Jr., Wendy O. Koopa, Iggy Koopa, Roy Koopa, Lemmy Koopa and Ludwig von Koopa) and are all children of Bowser. Bowser Koopa Jr. is therefore also a Koopaling. We should change the page... --Mikiuz 08:35, 31 May 2010 (EDT)--
 * We'll see about that, I just sent an email for the amiricain nintendo.

Okay then, I got their answer, here it is:

Hello, Thank you for writing back to clarify that you are able to play the American releases of our games. That said, I'm afraid there isn't a direct answer to your question about Bowser Jr. Nintendo excels at making sure our fans can get back story information, character descriptions, and--most importantly--the information they require to complete the games that we publish. This can happen through our website (www.nintendo.com), Player's Guides, and Nintendo Power magazine. Having said that, many details about our games and the origins of the characters will remain mysteries, left to the active imagination of the player.

I guess we should just leave it then.

Mario is Missing
I REALLY need someone to clear this up specifically. From what I can gather Larry is the only one in the NES version, everyone but Larry, Morton, Wendy, and Lemmy appear in the SNES version, and then everyone but Lemmy and Morton appear in the PC version, BUT Morton and Lemmy are still mentioned in the game's story, and Lemmy is shown in official artwork despite not appearing in the game? Is there anything else I'm missing? UhHuhAlrightDaisy 21:39, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Last I checked, none of the Koopalings appeared as Bosses in the NES version, the only Boss was a Koopa Troopa posing as Bowser. I used to own the SNES version. The only Koopalings appearing in it, were in this order. Ludwig von Koopa, Iggy Koopa, and Roy Koopa. Although Lemmy appears in the PC version's artwork he doesn't make any formal appearance in game, the same is true for Morton as well, making them the only two Koopalings to not appear in ANY of the games. this link below features part 1 of a walkthrough for the PC version. Lemmy Koopa617

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzb57x74gls&feature=search
 * Ok the part about Larry NOT being in the NES version is news, but I covered everything else you said already. Thanks though. If anyone else knows anything more specific it's appreciated. UhHuhAlrightDaisy 03:15, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

why were the koopalings gone for so long?
The koopalings were gone for quite a while until they made their newest appearence, but my question is why?
 * Only Nintendo knows. -- 20:44, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Koopalings Truly Bowser's Children?
So I've been thinking as to whether or not the Koopalings are truly Bowser's children. For starters, in royal family, the eldest is the heir to the throne and not the youngest, meaning that if the Koopalings are Bowser's children, then Ludwig Von Koopa would be the next Koopa King instead of Bowser Jr. It makes me wonder if "Bowser's seven children" is more of a symbolic title, as opposed to literal.

For example, in Christian mythology, angels are called the "Sons of God" yet Jesus Christ is God's only literal son, so do y'all see what I mean about Koopalings being Bowser's symbolic children?

It would explain things like why Bowser Jr. outranks Ludwig Von Koopa, and other things like Morton Koopa Jr. being a junior. As if these are younger Koopas of Bowser's Koopa sub-species, that behave as governors to Bowser, yet since the Koopa Kingdom is a monarchy and not a republic, then these governor koopas would be prince koopas, making them symbolic "children" of King Bowser. This could also explain why the Koopalings were absent for so long after Super Mario World; perhaps Bowser stripped these governors of their power for failing him, yet in New Super Mario Bros. Wii, Bowser gave them another chance with his literal son in charge of them.

Maybe I am over thinking this, but it has always been unclear as to why Bowser Jr. debuted way after the Koopalings, and it be a shocker to Princess Peach on Pinna Park when she said "So, you're Bowser's son!?!" implying that she either 1, knew Bowser had a kid, but never met him or 2, that she was surprised that Bowser had a kid at all. If the Koopalings were Bowser's true children, as well, then wouldn't Peach have said something more like, "So you're one of Bowser's sons!?!"

Again, I'm way over thinking this, but I'd love to hear some feedback as to your thoughts on this.

DARTHZERIMAR 22:07, 24 January 2011 (UCT)

The Koopalings are in fact Bowser's children. We're talking about video games here, not real life. I'm pretty sure in the SMAS25AE booklet it says Bowser's children are helping or something like that. So, they are real.

Yes, but the whole point of my argument is whether the definition of "Bowser's children" means "biological offspring" or more of an honorable title given to 7 high-ranking Koopas, tied second only to Bowser (and eventually third to Bowser Jr.) I know many of y'all will be adamant on "Bowser's Children" being literal, but there are many more examples of a leader's top-ranking lieutenants being referred to as his "children" or "sons."

Another perfect example is when Koopa Kid is split into the Red, Blue, and Green K. Kids in Mario Party 5, where they call Bowser "Dad" and Bowser is shown grounding them from playing with their Mario action figures. This is a seemingly clear example of Parent-Child relationship, yet it is pretty much agreed that Koopa Kid, from Mario Party, is not really Bowser's offspring.

DARTHZERIMAR 22:35, 24 January 2011 (UCT)


 * You're reading too much into the Koopaling stuff: our job on the wiki is to report the official information, not speculate on what "children" means. The Koopa Kid's use of "dad" is interesting, but you still can't discuss it like this here. As I said in the below section, bring these discussions to the forum. - 23:42, 24 January 2011 (EST)

He might be onto something, though. True the Kokuppa were known as siblings in Japan, but them being his kids might've been an American invention. I'll have to check sometime. LinkTheLefty 00:28, 4 May 2011 (EDT)

Meaning of the Name "Koopaling"
Hey, I've been wondering this one for a while, as well, but has Nintendo confirmed what the meaning of "Koopaling" even means? The way I see it, there are 3 possibilities:

1. Koopa Underling. Explanation: The Koopalings are the underlings of King Bowser Koopa, which they are. Problem: Other than to Bowser, they are underlings to nobody else.

2. Koopa Youngling. Explanation: The Koopalings are child or adolescent Koopas, which they are, not to mention their original title as the "Koopa Kids." Problem: The use of the root word "-ling" to describe something as young, typically implies infancy or young childhood, which the Koopalings (other than Lemmy Koopa MAYBE) are not.

3. Koopa Sibling. Explanation: The Koopalings are a group of 7 siblings, which they are (assuming they are Bowser's literal biological children)  Problem:  Bowser Jr. would, by definition of sibling, be the 8th Koopaling, which he is confirmed not to be, by Nintendo.

Therefore, which "-ling" definition most describes the Koopalings? I suppose there could be a bit of all 3, but if one had to give only one "-ling" word to merge with Koopa, then which one would it be?

DARTHZERIMAR 22:23, 24 January 2011 (UCT)


 * Nintendo has stated that the Koopalings are Bowser's children, and these sorts of discussions don't belong here anyway: they belong on the forums. - 23:34, 24 January 2011 (EST)

Who is Bowser's wife?
I never seen his wife, but there must be one. Where did the koopalings come from if there isn't a wife? SuperPaperFan 15:51, 6 December 2011 (EST)
 * Again, this type of talk belongs on the forums, not the talk pages of articles here. Please don't post more discussion on talk pages unless you are trying to improve the articles.

Actually i was.
 * The UK's Nintendo Power once mentioned a wife in an article that's probably not supposed to be taken seriously. This section in the "Implied Character" list is the full extent of the information we have on the matter, and everything else is speculation. - 15:02, 7 December 2011 (EST)

Link needs to be fixed
In the trivia section, the link to Mario's Early Days goes to a disambiguation page. Can someone fix it? Jdrawer 18:31, 25 February 2012 (EST)

Koopalings in 3D Land?
The article says that they were planned to be in SM3DL. This should be removed as there is no reference that proves this. Someone look into this ease?

Physical Appearances
Should I add that Morton and Wendy have shown the least amount of change? They're the only 2 who didn't get their shell, hair, size, and/or face altered in any way. KoopaKiller13 19:52, 24 June 2012 (EDT)

Not Bowser's children
In an interview with Game Informer, Miyamoto stated that the Koopalings are not Bowser's biological children, and Bowser Jr. is Bowser's only biological child. Link: --A Pimp Named Slickback 15:34, 14 September 2012 (EDT)
 * From the same interview: Mario and Luigi do not have family names and Mario is not an actual doctor. Koopalmier (talk) 15:42, 14 September 2012 (EDT)


 * He didn't said biological. It's because currently they "stopped" stating they were Bowser's children and started saying they were Bowser's minions, even in New Super Mario Bros. 2. We cannot confirmed they aren't Bowser's biological children, nor that they aren't his children neither because they were meant to be his children. It says that the current story (now) is that the Koopalings aren't his children and Bowser Jr. is his only child. So, how was it before, and how it will be in the future? Will Shigeru and the developers start considering them as Bowser's children again? People should know that, even Bowser care a lot for the Koopalings too regardless for his care for his descendant, it was a long time that we never seen Bowser treating them like his children since Bowser Jr. made his debut. If they weren't Bowser's children, it's more than exceendingly cruel for them.--Prince Ludwig (talk) 19:55, 14 September 2012 (EDT)


 * Clearly the only explanation is that Bowser disowned them. I added a bit to the introduction and the "Family Relationship" section saying that they're "currently" not considered to be his kids. However, I don't think this is enough to go back and retcon over 20 years of calling them his children: that's the story that everyone knows and is expecting, and I think we should leave it intact while the interview statement is left as more of a footnote. - 21:51, 14 September 2012 (EDT)

Ah, finally. Thank you Walkazo. I feel a lot better now. ^_^ --Prince Ludwig (talk) 06:10, 15 September 2012 (EDT)


 * Except that they were never his children in Japan, right? Wasn't this simply a translation issue, just like Peach being called Toadstool? As far as I know the American canon had them as children until Super Mario Advance 2 was released, then they were simply referred to as his "generals" or minions from then on. They were siblings, and of the same species as Bowser, but not necessarily Bowser's children. Miyamoto isn't really retconning anything, he's simply fixing an inconsistency between the two canons that has technically not actually been mentioned ever since they started reappearing. In Japan, they were never thought of as his children, which is presumably why they were forgotten for so long and why Bowser Jr. exists. Fizzle (talk) 10:15, 15 September 2012 (EDT)
 * He said they aren't his children. That means that THEY ARE NOT HIS CHILDREN. That is what Miyamoto himself said. They aren't related to Bowser at all. Those who disagree just can't face the truth.


 * Just forget what I just said there. I was just angry. What I'm trying to get across is that there is even proof that they are not Bowser's kids. For example, Bowser never shows fatherly love to the Koopalings like he does with Jr. I say they aren't his kids and any pages saying that they are should be changed as such. However, I am aware that some people disagree with me. I suggest we make a proposal on this. Mario3D64 (talk) 10:59, 15 September 2012 (EDT)
 * We need to mention that they originally WERE his kids in the English canon, in Super Mario Bros. 3, Super Mario World and... presumably Yoshi's Safari, but that has been retconned since then and never been mentioned since. Serious question, when was the last time they were referred to as his children? Fizzle (talk) 16:38, 15 September 2012 (EDT)
 * If I had to take a guess i'd say the NSMBWII prima guide (I base this off of the fact that Bowser Jr. is called a Koopaling in it. Also the guide for Super Mario Advance 4 does refer to the Koopalings as Bowser's kids.
 * I don't think Prima guides (or even some official guides) can be taken as "canon" exactly. While they are a source of English canon, particular in terms of names for things, they are also known for their mistakes and assumptions. Heck, it calls the Koopa Clown Car a "carriage", which is just weird. I haven't seen them referred to as Bowser's children for a long time, I even remember the official website for SMA2 referring to them as "generals" and that was ages ago. I will check the SMA4 guide you mention, but I think other sources should be looked at, mainly manuals. Fizzle (talk) 16:57, 15 September 2012 (EDT)
 * The wiki policy states that Prima guides are in fact canon since they are officially licensed by Nintendo (also the Super Mario Advance 4 thing I think the manual also calls them Bowser's kids.)
 * There are levels of canonicity, that's my point. Manuals would usually override guides, for example. And Miyamoto certainly would. As SMA4 was a remake it's hard to say, did it just copy and paste the plot from the original manual? Either way, ever since they reappeared in the NSMB series I'm not sure if they were ever called his children, and in Japan they've never been known as that to my knowledge. Fizzle (talk) 17:25, 15 September 2012 (EDT)
 * Different levels of canon don't really exist on the wiki except the fact that I believe Nintendo Power guides trump Prima guides and games trump manuals. Also according to this guy the Koopalings were Bower's kids in the original Japanese manual for SMB3 (or at least that the context implies it).
 * That whole bit is particularly interesting, thanks for that, and ties in with Miyamoto's recent comments. It seems an issue of interpretation, and since Bowser Jr. came along, the interpretation is that they're not his actual children. presumably. I get the feeling this whole issue requires a section on the page pretty much devoted to it, so as to explain the inconsistencies with them once being Bowser's children and now them no longer being so. Fizzle (talk) 19:24, 15 September 2012 (EDT)