MarioWiki:Proposals

Writing guidelines
None at the moment.

New features
None at the moment.

Removals
None at the moment.

Determine whether reused artwork is a reference
Right now, whenever a piece of character artwork is remade/reused, it's considered a reference in the references section. But I say... why? It's a practice Nintendo's been doing for years, and the poses are always very generic. I don't think anyone at Nintendo says "Hey, remember that Mario Party game from 10 years ago? Let's reference it by reusing Bowser's character artwork!".

Because there's several variables, there are a few different options for this proposal:
 * Only reused artwork is a reference: Only instances where the exact artwork is reused will be considered a reference.
 * Only remastered artwork is a reference: Only instances where the artwork is remade will be considered a reference. For example, Wario's artwork from Mario Party: The Top 100 would be a Super Mario 64 DS reference because it's a remake of his older artwork.
 * Neither are a reference: Self-explanatory, all mentions of reused artwork in any form would be removed from the references sections.
 * Both are a reference: Nothing happens, both continue to be considered a reference.
 * Determine on a case-by-case basis: Artwork reuse being a reference would be determined on a case-by-case basis, similar to other elements of games like reused enemies.

Proposer: Deadline: August 30, 2018, 23:59 GMT Extended to September 6, 2018, 23:59 GMT Extended to September 13, 2018, 23:59 GMT Extended to September 20, 2018, 23:59 GMT

Only reused artwork is a reference

 * 1) - Per my original thoughts.
 * 2) - Per proposal.

Only remastered artwork is a reference

 * 1) Remaking an artwork is at the very least giving a specific nod to an element of a game, if not the entire game. Artwork is an element as much as sprites or quotes.
 * 2) Per Baby Luigi's comment. At this point, artwork from the Mario Party games has been reused so many times, it's hardly a reference anymore.

Neither are a reference

 * 1) Per proposal + my comment on the previous take.
 * 2) Per proposal.
 * 3) Per proposal.
 * 4) Per all.
 * 5) Per all.
 * 6) - Per all
 * 7) Don't see why they are a reference
 * 8) - This is my second option, seeing that the first option is automatically failing.
 * 9) - Per all. Maybe with remastered art it should be noted that it's a remaster, but either way I wouldn't call it a "reference".

Determine on a case-by-case basis

 * 1) This proposal is clearly better off as a discussion, but I'm going for this option since it's at least an opener for further discussion.
 * 2) Gonna vote here as well since this option now exists, and I see the merits of both.
 * 3) The context surrounding the artwork is far more important into establishing whenever it's a reference. In many contexts, however, especially related to more general artwork, which are later to be used as stock work, this is not true. For instance, it's silly to say that the artwork that appears in New Super Mario Bros. is a reference to Mario Party 6 since it appeared in Mario Party 6 first (if not earlier). If there is important information about how the artwork is reused, especially if it's reused prominently the point it's associated, it should be instead be noted in the file page as well as be categorized in the file page as artwork for those multiple games (e.g. that Mario artwork should be considered Mario Party 6 AND New Super Mario Bros. art). But there are other instances of art where I'd argue that it would be a reference; Mario & Luigi and Mario Strikers art, for instance, are highly stylized so their appearances in other games are references. Even iconic art like the Super Mario Bros. pictures should probably be recognized as a reference if it appears anywhere else. Another reason context matters much is if hypothetically, Super Mario 64-era Mario artwork gets reused. Back then, it's used in more general promotional advertising so its being reused in similar games would've not really been a reference. But it's no longer getting used, so if one sees it in a newer game, would it be a reference? I'd really say if it's more case-by-case especially if artwork start receiving diminished use in the future as rendering technology continues improving and designs continue evolving. So far, a lot of the GCN/Wii/Wii U era art is getting used, even after being re-rendered, but there might be an interesting argument in the future once the that era art stops becoming stock.
 * 4) Per Bazooka Mario.
 * 5) Per all
 * 6) Some are references, perhaps, like Bazooka Mario's point about unique art styles, but some are stock artwork. Usually the latter. Really, the best course of action is not to make a solid rule and decide for each image as the issue comes about.
 * 7) - Second choice.
 * 8) - Per Bazooka Mario, and the discussion in the comments. It's like how bringing back a Goomba wouldn't count as a Super Mario Bros. reference, whereas bringing back something like a Hooligon might count as a Super Paper Mario reference.
 * 9) - Per Bazookario.

Comments
I think this should be applied in the same mannerism as we already handle references for policy: referencing Super Mario Bros. because Goombas appear in the game is ludicrous, so saying that Baby Luigi's artwork in promotional material are all references to Mario Kart Wii (which in turn is a reference to Luigi's pose from DDR: Mario Mix) is a bit ludicrous. So in that way, I accept remaking/remastering artwork only when it reuses artwork from that specific game instance, such as Bowser's very specialized, dancing artwork that isn't reused all that often to begin with being reused for Mario Sports Superstars. Artwork such as Waluigi's crouching pose, Yoshi's running pose from Mario Party 8, ie any artwork that gets reused very often, should not be labeled as references. 13:25, 23 August 2018 (EDT)
 * Yes, by then it's stock artwork. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 13:27, 23 August 2018 (EDT)
 * I'll also add that some artwork gets edited without it being necessarily a reference: Bowser Jr.'s artwork in Mario Party: Star Rush is an edited version of his artwork in Mario Tennis: Ultra Smash, but that doesn't mean that they wanted to reference said game. Actually, I frankly don't think that in most cases the artwork which is reused or remastered is a reference to the original game for which the original artwork was made. I'd rather talk about sourcing in these cases, but we don't have any way to make this distinction at the moment.--Mister Wu (talk) 15:40, 23 August 2018 (EDT)

I say that I don't like any of the options in this proposal. My conclusion is this: some reused artworks are references, many of them aren't, but that doesn't mean no reused artworks aren't references to past games. 16:57, 24 August 2018 (EDT)
 * Agreed; it's better if this was case-by-case, rather than catch-all. 17:01, 24 August 2018 (EDT)
 * I've added a fifth option, since this seems to be a popular opinion. -- 17:28, 24 August 2018 (EDT)
 * The problem I have with it is that it's pretty vague. 17:42, 24 August 2018 (EDT)
 * Yeah, it is pretty vague. I like the idea, but since it's too vague, I don't think I can vote for it. For me, most should follow under what I voted for. 17:38, 25 August 2018 (EDT)

Require users with accounts on other NIWA websites to mention their usernames on that Wiki
So while looking at talk pages of banned users, I came across people saying "being banned on one Wiki will hurt your credibility on this wiki" such as this:

I thought to myself that if having a bad record on one Wiki would be a factor in you being banned, promoted, whatever on another wiki, everyone should be required to list all their NIWA usernames on their userpage of this wiki so we would have a better record of your posting history. So I am known as Croconaw2000 on Bulbapedia and Bowser vs Bowser Jr. on SmashWiki, therefore I would list both usernames on my userpage here and anything wrong I do on that wiki would reflect on my behaviour here. Any usernames you list would have to be updated for name changes on that wiki too.

Anyone with an account on the DK wiki would not have to list their username because that wiki will soon be merged with this one.

Proposer: Deadline: September 21, 2018, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) Per proposal

Oppose

 * 1) Per my comments.
 * 2) Per Bazooka Mario, and i don't think being promoted or blocked in one wiki should affect another wiki - After all, different wikis have different rules.
 * 3) Nowhere (as far as I know) on our policy pages does it mention that a decision to ban a user is even partly based on whether they're blocked elsewhere on NIWA. And why make users update their user page whenever they change their username on another NIWA wiki? It's just an unnecessary hassle.
 * 4) Outside of exceptional circumstances (such as confirmed pedophilia charges), we ban users based on bad behavior in MarioWiki, not behavior in other Wikis.
 * 5) - Listing who you are on other wikis is completely optional, can even be done with . Jurisdiction on banned users is completely up the admins, but their behavior on other wikis doesn't effect their ban here.
 * 6) Per all.
 * 7) Per all. It wouldn't be fair to anyone at all, and it is indeed true that different wikis have different rules.
 * 8) Per all.
 * 9) Unless there was an actual, verifiable potential for cross-wiki abuse, I see this more as detrimental than beneficial. It's the reason Wikipedia only blocks certain users on their site for bad behavior only on their sites by default, and saving the "global lock" feature for users who cause problems on other Wikimedia projects. Not that this is negotiable anyways, since the admins have the final say in how the rules for blocking/unblocking users are determined, so don't be surprised if this gets vetoed sooner or later.
 * I have to agree with everyone here. There's really no point in having every single user on this wiki list their all of their possible usernames (one on this wiki, and other ones on other wikis). On top of that, not everyone on this wiki can be found across NIWA; there are some users, like me, who've only created accounts for the Super Mario Wiki. Now what does this "security system" do? I don't see much benefit, or even ambivalence, in keeping track of interwiki records, unless, as Bazooka Mario stated, a user has confirmed criminal charges of sorts. Per all.
 * 1) Per all, this is unnecessary.
 * 2) Per all. I'd say something witty here, but everyone else brought up really strong points.
 * 3) The left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing, nor does it need to. Some users may have legitimate reasons to not WANT to link to somewhere else, particularly given different places will have different standards depending on the primary demographic of the franchise in question, given some other Nintendo franchises may have comparatively violent-ish or sexual-ish content (like Fire Emblem, perhaps).
 * 4) Per all.

Comments
This seems like it would be a lot of effort to enforce with very little benefits. What would stop a user from lying and saying that they don't have accounts on other wikis? Sure, Checkuser exists, but are we really going to bother the admins of every single NIWA wiki to check EVERY user here just to verify that they don't? -- 12:17, 14 September 2018 (EDT)

Well I didn't know of the NIWA template. It's very interesting indeed. And I wouldn't say that your actions on another wiki determine you should be banned or promoted here, but I figured it counts as a good reference. I do remember seeing an user here (don't remember the name) who's actions on SmashWiki had some influence on permabanning the user. 00:16, 15 September 2018 (EDT)