MarioWiki:Proposals

Writing guidelines
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New features
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Removals
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Recreate the numbered Mario Kart redirects
The recent controversy over the new Throw Block redirect threw me back to a certain proposal made almost two years ago. Yes, I'm talking about this travesty that, despite being a clear violation of the redirect policy then, and even moreso now, still somehow passed 12-7, deleting all the numbered Mario Kart redirects that could have actually helped people who wanted to know what, say, the fourth Mario Kart game was.

All the reasons given on the support side of that linked proposal are flawed. To quote my vote in that proposal: "According to Redirects, "If there's even a small chance that a redirect will help someone, it's not useless." And while there may only be one person in the world who calls them that, that's more then zero; hence, they're not useless."

That point still stands up today, and in fact, our current redirect policy, in bold text even, says, "There is no need to delete alternate name, conjectural, or spelling-mistake redirects unless they are specifically too silly or too general." It really couldn't be more clear than that.

I don't know how that proposal passed by such a wide margin, or why no one's attempted to overturn it since, but it's time to right this wrong that's haunted me for eighteen months.

Proposer: Deadline: May 16, 2019, 11:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) Per my proposal, my vote in the last one, and in fact literally the entire opposition in the last one.
 * 2) Reading this proposal has convinced me that those sorts of redirects are fine, as long as they help at least one person navigate the wiki. Per YoshiFlutterJump.
 * 3) Per proposal.
 * 4) Per all.
 * 5) Per all.
 * 6) Yeah, I never really liked the idea of having those numbered redirects deleted. Someone unfamiliar with the franchise might want to know what the fourth Mario Kart game is and search up "mario kart 4" and find Double Dash!!, which is what redirects are for. There are still some "(series) (number)" redirects still lying around that were never taken care of either.
 * 7) Undeleting it like Blurp (Yoshi's Story) seems plausible, and redirecting is fine, but not outright deleted.
 * 8) Per all.
 * 9) Per all.
 * 10) Per Owencrazyboy9.

Comments
There has to be some sort of notability line we draw when it comes to making redirects. Otherwise you can use that "redirects are never useless" argument to justify all sorts of names like Mayro Kratt and Luggy. Who actually calls Mario Kart Double Dash by its numerical order on the franchise? Common sense is applied here, and I don't see the rationale for making numerical redirects convincing and they do not establish what sort of line we draw on redirects. Rather, it just seems this proposal is just "create redirects because we can". 18:51, May 9, 2019 (EDT)
 * It's all a matter of "Oh, I wonder what the fourth Mario Kart is...I'll just try typing in 'Mario Kart 4' and see what I get". Not everyone is going to have the immediate urge to type in "Mario Kart (series)" to see what the fourth Mario Kart was.  Why take them to the search page when we already know what they want?  It's inconveniencing our readers on purpose, which is counterproductive to our goal as a wiki.  And also, we don't have "Mayro Kratt" or "Luggy" because they're deemed too silly to be any use.  That's entirely irrelevant to this. - 19:08, May 9, 2019 (EDT)
 * Except those are completely nonsensical terms, which is specifically what Redirects discourages. The numbered ones at least have some validity. 20:06, May 9, 2019 (EDT)

I guess that is a counterproposal? -- 11:39, May 10, 2019 (EDT)
 * You could call it that. This proposal aims to directly overturn the one from November 2017, and recreate all redirects that were deleted because of said proposal. - 12:18, May 10, 2019 (EDT)

Wouldn't these numbered redirects fall under being too general though? SmokedChili (talk) 04:16, May 11, 2019 (EDT)
 * A redirect that is too general would be one that could refer to multiple things (excluding certain abbreviation redirects). For example, MK2 could only refer to the second Mario Kart game, Mario Kart 64. Even then, as mentioned we already have other numbered redirects such as Super Smash Bros. 3.  06:03, May 11, 2019 (EDT)
 * Okay, point taken. But both pages explaining redirects are mostly about inexact phrases and variations, and one issue I see with them is that they don't say anything about fan-made names or terms which is what "Super Smash Bros. 3" is. For being helpful to even just one person, this would also run at the risk of their search for "Mario Kart 2" causing them to misunderstand it as "Mario Kart 64 is Mario Kart 2" and at worst spreading that around because "it was on Mario Wiki". SmokedChili (talk) 10:30, May 11, 2019 (EDT)
 * I've said it many times before, and I'll say it again. Redirects are not part of our knowledgebase.  They are merely a tool to assist someone in their search for a certain article without typing in the exact name, allowing them to skip the dreaded search page.  If someone wants to know what the second Mario Kart is, they're not going to type in "Mario Kart (series)".  No, the average person will type in "Mario Kart 2".  As I've said before, we already know where they want to go.  Why suppress the page from them? - 13:59, May 11, 2019 (EDT)
 * So now it's from "maybe only one person" to "the average person"? How do you know they wouldn't type something like "second Mario Kart" into the search bar instead? SmokedChili (talk) 14:57, May 11, 2019 (EDT)
 * I don't know what you're talking about. "The average person" is certainly at least one person.  But if they type "second Mario Kart" they're clearly trying to go to the search page, whereas someone who types in "Mario Kart 2" likely thinks that's the actual name of the game, and clearly isn't trying to go to the search page.  There is a difference here. - 15:06, May 11, 2019 (EDT)

Decide on a phrase to describe crossover appearances with the Mario franchise
The way non-Mario character infoboxes describe their crossovers with Mario is currently inconsistent from page to page. For example, Squirtle's appearances with Mario are described as "crossovers with the Mario franchise", while Sonic the Hedgehog's are described simply as "crossover installments". The goal of this proposal is to decide on a particular formula from those available on the wiki. Here's the options:
 * Crossover installments: to me, this is too vague. It seems like it could refer to any crossover installment, not necessarily linked to Mario.
 * Mario crossovers: This is not too bad, but it puts too much emphasis on Mario, and the Super Smash Bros. games, for example, aren't all about Mario.
 * Mario franchise crossovers: Same as above, but it's more explicit as to what kind of "Mario" it refers to (not the character).
 * Crossovers with the Mario franchise: This seems to be the best way to put it, but the downside is that it occupies a lot of space in the infobox.

And, the guest star of the show:


 * Do nothing.

Feel free to add any other options that you can think of below.

A rather minor proposal, I know, but it's small changes like these that make a difference! Or not. Maybe I'm just an organizational maniac.

Proposer: Deadline: May 18, 2019, 23:59 GMT

Crossovers with the Mario franchise

 * 1) my preferred choice
 * 2) I think this one would work

Do nothing

 * 1) Already done.