MarioWiki:Proposals

List of Talk Page Proposals

 * Create a separate page for Koopa Clown (Discuss) Deadline: December 11, 2014, 23:59 GMT
 * Merge Pink Donkey Kong Jr. to Donkey Kong Jr. (Discuss) Deadline: December 13, 2014, 23:59 GMT
 * Split Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS / Wii U into and  (Discuss) Deadline: December 13, 2014, 23:59 GMT
 * Merge Young Professor E. Gadd with Professor E. Gadd (Discuss) Deadline: December 13, 2014 23:59 GMT

Writing Guidelines
None at the moment.

New features
None at the moment.

Removals
None at the moment.

Split all Smash Bros. special moves into separate articles
The first article that really brought this to my attention was Falco Lombardi's section, because jesus, but with five individual games to grab information and images from, the special moves for the Smash characters are starting to become a bit bloated. Not to Falco's extent, mind you, but nearly all of them have the potential to be as disorganized. The newest installment introduced two variant special moves for every special move as well, which just further stockpiles more words and images to the sections. It's gotten to the point where having individual articles for them is simply better for tidiness, but individual pages will also allow more fleshed-out explanations of the moves, including images from all the games, more detailed explanations of the moves' intricacies (without seeping too much into SSBWiki's level of detail), better explanations of differences between installments... Besides the fact that we're giving articles to every other Smash Bros. element under the sun, and the fact that we are certainly no stranger to special moves (case in point, we've given articles to everyone's individual basketball dunks), and as mentioned in the coverage policy, "everything appearing in the games gets articles"... This is basically the next step. I'm aware of the previous proposal to merge them all, but as evidenced by recent proposals, our standards for importance have changed.

Proposer: Deadline: December 6, 2014, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) Per my proposal.
 * 2) I've been wanting to do this for years. As 'kazo said at one point, the more articles, the better. We cover Smash Bros. fully. We should cover all special moves and Final Smashes, especially since all are major aspects of Smash Bros. that are given a name. Hell, Air Dodge, Shield, and Footstool Jump all have articles. This category shouldn't be bare as it is right now, and this proposal will answer questions our potential readers have raised. Also, for those who think we're becoming SmashWiki 2.0, actually, that's a slippery slope argument. SmashWiki talks about strategies, character viability, move viability, combo potential, DACUS, wave-dashing, SHFFL, famous competitive players, famous tourneys, palette swaps, Sakurai angles, and a ton other Smash Bros. jargon and nitty bitty mechanics we won't even breahte on. Special moves, on the other hand are a crucial aspect of Smash Bros. that all players are familiar with unlike the aforementioned crap I've listed. So, yeah, full support for this.
 * 3) - Per proposal, per policy. The 5th-level header clutter in History sections caused by the SSB Special Moves has bugged me for years, and now that we're giving all the SSB subjects articles again, splitting them out fixes both the clutter and the coverage gap. It ain't 2008 no more: the times have changed.
 * 4) If we are doing special moves from Mario:Rpg, we should do these games too.
 * 5) Yes please, per all.
 * 6) Per all.
 * 7) Per all.
 * 8) Per all.
 * 9) Per all.
 * 10) Per all
 * 11) Per all.
 * 12) Per all.
 * 13) &mdash; Per Time Turner and Walkazo. This proposed policy falls within our coverage and will serve to better organize the wiki.
 * 14) Per all.
 * 15) Per all.

Captain Toad vs Toad vs Blue Toad Part Deux: The Toadening
(Before you go "not this shit again", please make sure to read this thing in full. Yes, this has been discussed a lot. No, thought-terminating clichés are not a substitute for actual discourse.)



The previous proposal outcomes regarding if the playable Toad in 3D World is Blue Toad or teh Toad are wrong and I want to reverse them. Since determining the identity of an anthropomorphic fungi in a children's video game series warrants only the highest level of intellectual scrutiny, here's a list of the for and againsts:

(Note that in both cases, Captain Toad would still warrant a separate page since he's a separate, distinct persona 'n' shit)

The Blue Toad in 3D World is Toad; Captain Toad is a totally new character


 * A website bios calls the Blue Toad "Mario's lifelong buddy". This is the big one and unambiguous, although the game appears to contradict it (See below).


 * Official material calls the blue toad in 3D World just "Toad".
 * Incidentally, though it's not as consistent, various material for Captain Toad's Treasure Tracker also refer to the PC as just "Toad" (see below).


 * Toad being blue is obviously a homage to SMB 2. This one is questionable:
 * You can still homage the idea of a blue Toad being a PC while using a separate character. Furthermore, Toad was still coloured with red spots in SMB2's promo material, and his sprite is coloured "correctly" in the game's graphically-enhanced rereleases.
 * A developer interview states Peach wasn't initially meant to be playable in 3D World. As such, any supposed homage to SMB 2 is infact unintentional *.


 * Some old interviews have EAD staff stating the Captain Toad character was "introduced" in Super Mario Galaxy
 * This one is also questionable; developers tend to be loose with their usage of "character", either because of translation issues, lack of direct equivalence or vidya designers using jargon. For example, there's an interview with the director of Donkey Kong: Jungle Beat where he unambiguously refers to the inanimate banana collectibles as "characters". Captain Toad is a distinct persona of Toad, and thus a "character" by that train of thought.

Captain Toad is teh Toad; 3D World Toad is Blue Toad
 * Captain Toad and Toad have nearly identical appearances and identical personalities. Replacing a character with a carbon copy isn't uncommon in fiction, but having both exist concurrently is.
 * Captain Toad is paired up with Toadette in Treasure Tracker just like Toad and Toadette are paired up in the sports spinoff.
 * Toad's trading card bios for Super Mario Galaxy says he's the Toad Brigade leader.
 * In the ending of 3D World, Captain Toad and the Toad Brigade appears, minus the blue Toad. Because their Blue Toad is the one adventuring with Mario. Durrrrrrr.
 * In a E3 stream of Treasure Tracker, NOA Treehouse staff directly mention Toad's roles in Smash Bros. and Wario's Woods with the implication that yes, they're the same guy * ..

Toad toad toad toad toad toad. Toad.

Based on these last two points, it seems fairly obvious to me what the facts are. Deciding what teh truth is by a vote seems dangerously close to the contemptible concept of wikiality to me, but the time-honored Mariowiki tradition is "throw a vote at it"at anything vaguely contentious. So whatever.

( * In the interest of transparency, I have to thank Wario Forums user Warelander for bringing these points to my attention.)

(P.S: May you burn in hell, Toad.)

Proposer: Deadline: December 13, 2014, 23:59 GMT

Captain Toad is the Toad (move 3D World info to Blue Toad (character)

 * 1) SUper mario trading card+bio, and it is a red toad. Toads can't change color, so why the Toad do we have this disgracement? This has FINALLY come around, so YAY! But I'd say the blue Toad is NSMBWII one!
 * 1) SUper mario trading card+bio, and it is a red toad. Toads can't change color, so why the Toad do we have this disgracement? This has FINALLY come around, so YAY! But I'd say the blue Toad is NSMBWII one!

Captain Toad is a Toad (status-quo)

 * 1) And Toadette is a Toad, and Toadsworth is a Toad, and Toadbert is a Toad, and Doctor Toadley is a Toad...seriously, we could call any Toad "the Toad". According to games, there are several Toads that look alike. Have you ever heard of Bowser's Inside Story? That has several blorbed Toads that look and act exactly like "the Toad". So, saying Captain Toad is Toad is like saying all those blorbed Toads are "the Toad". Also, Nintendo didn't say if Captain Toad was Toad, while Nintendo did say Dr. Mario was Mario.

Comments
". According to games, there are several Toads that look alike. Have you ever heard of Bowser's Inside Story? That has several blorbed Toads that look and act exactly like "the Toad"."

I've posted several sources that hint captain toad = toad. Your tagent does nothing to disprove anything I've written in the main body.

"Also, Nintendo didn't say if Captain Toad was Toad"

that's exactly what the last point of the 2nd section adress, jesus. --Glowsquid (talk) 20:08, 5 December 2014 (EST)


 * Skimming has failed me! But still, all of that is just speculation. If it doesn't say he's Toad, he's not Toad. In the instruction booklet for Dr. Mario, it literally says Dr. Mario is Mario. That's why we say the doc is the plumber. We don't know if the explorer is the well-known 'shroom, so unless official sources that say Captain Toad is Toad, we don't say that. Madz the Penguin (talk) 22:01, 5 December 2014 (EST)


 * Can there be a third option to move all the Blue Toad info (except the oldschool SMB2 stuff) to the Blue Toad (character) page but keep Captain Toad separate from the Toad? And then just leave that page for the singled-out red-capped Toad appearances through the ages, with both Captain Toad and Blue Toad mentioned in the intro as being other iterations of the/a singular character, and only list the games with them in the Possible Appearances section with leading to whatever article's applicable. That way, we're not making any judgement calls about which one is the Toad, but instead, presenting both options equally and with as little speculation as possible. -


 * "but keep Captain Toad separate from the Toad?" I may have not made that clear enough in the OP, but Captain Toad would still warrant a separate page even if we decide him = Toad as it's a distinct and consistent persona, just as Mr. L is a distinct persona of Luigi. --Glowsquid (talk) 20:40, 5 December 2014 (EST)
 * Well, make it clearer and I'll be more inclined to support. But will saying Captain Toad is The Toad mean all the Blue Toad stuff gets taken off The Toad page, or will they still stick around in Possible Appearances for the sake of covering all the bases? -

Miscellaneous
None at the moment.