MarioWiki:Proposals

 http://img33.picoodle.com/img/img33/9/9/17/f_propcopym_9045f2d.png A proposal section works like a discussion page: comments are brought up and replied to using indents (colons, such as : or ::::) and all edits are signed using the code. Signing with the signature code (~) is not allowed due to technical issues.

How To
 * 1) Actions that users feel are appropriate to have community approval first can be added by anyone, but they must have a strong argument.
 * 2) Users then vote and discuss on the issue during that week. The "deadline" for the proposal is one week from posting at:
 * 3) *Monday to Thursday: 17:00 (5pm)
 * 4) *Friday and Saturday: 20:00 (8pm)
 * 5) *Sunday: 15:00 (3pm)
 * 6) Every vote should have a reason accompanying it.
 * 7) At any time a vote may be rejected if at least three active users believe the vote truly has no merit or was cast in bad faith. However, there must be strong reasons supporting the invalidation.
 * 8) " # " should be added under the last vote of each support/oppose section to show another blank line.
 * 9) Any proposal that has three votes or less at deadline will automatically be listed as "NO QUORUM." The original proposer then has the option to relist said proposal to generate more discussion.
 * 10) All proposals are archived. The original proposer must take action accordingly if the outcome of the proposal dictates it. If it requires the help of a sysop, the proposer can ask for that help.
 * 11) Proposals can not be made about System Operator promotions and demotions. Sysops can only be promoted and demoted by the will of Bureaucrats.
 * 12) There shouldn't be proposals about creating articles on a underrepresented or completely absent subject, unless there is major disagreement about whether the content should be included. To organize efforts about completing articles on missing subjects, try creating a PipeProject.
 * 13) No proposal can overturn the decision of a previous proposal that is less than 4 weeks (28 days) old.
 * 14) If a proposal has more than ten votes, it can only pass or fail by a margin of three votes. If a proposal reaches the deadline and the total number of votes for each option differ by two or less votes, the deadline will be extended for another week.
 * 15) All proposals that end up in a tie will be extended for another week.
 * 16) No joke proposals. Proposals are serious wiki matters, and should be handled professionally. Joke proposals will be deleted on sight.

The times are in EDT (UTC -4:00), and are set so that the user is more likely to be online at those times (after work/school, weekend nights). If a proposal is added on Saturday night at 11:59 PM EDT, the deadline is the next Saturday night at 8:00 PM. If it is a minute later, the deadline is a day plus 15 hours (Sunday), as opposed to a day minus 4 hours.

CURRENTLY: , 27 2024 (EDT)

New User Ranking
I am proposing that a new ranking should be added added (the current rankings are Patroller, Sysop, and Bureaucrat) for a few reasons. The rank, if this proposal passes, would probably be called Assistant-Patrollers or Monitors and would be ranked below Patrollers but above regular users. This ranking would bring minor things on the wiki up to date and help Patrollers with their duties.
 * 1) I feel that the Wiki has been kind of lagging per say lately. In example, the proposals section sometimes has proposals a day past deadline. The New Proposals section, unless it is updated by another user who has started a new proposal changes it, will often sit not being updated for a few days (not day, days) before being updated. These are only a few examples out of many I could point out.
 * 2) Some users deserve promotions, but may or may not be ready for the current rankings.
 * 3) The Patrollers, Sysops, and Bureaucrats would probably like more help.

For more information on the proposed position, please check this page.

Proposer: Deadline: 5 May 2009, 17:00

Create New Ranking

 * 1) Per my reasons above (and below) and Stooben Rooben's below.
 * 2) - Per the comments above, and my comments below. There are several wikis that have a ranking strictly with the 'rollback' power. While a lot of arguments went on over the Patrollers position's "usefulness", I honestly see no problem adding a rank with the ability to rollback. Sure, any user can revert an edit by clicking 'undo' and saving the page, but having the ability to 'rollback' makes that rank all the more useful. I remember when I was a standard user and I could only revert spam by clicking 'undo' and saving. It took a long time and the odds were that more damage was being done while I was reverting. A few seconds may not seem like a long time, but on the wiki, a lot can happen in a short amount of time.
 * 3) I think this could get some users more active if they know that there is yet another rank that they can strive for which could leave the wiki in a better situation

Don't Create New Ranking

 * 1) - Considering Patrollers were once removed not having enough power, a ranking whose only power is a souped up version of something normal users can already do (Anyone can undo an edit) seems incredibly pointless.
 * 2) - Per Blitz
 * Per Blitzwing. There's no need for another rank. If we need more "higher-privileged" people, they can be perfectly patrollers.
 * 1) - Per all.
 * 2) - Per all. Rollback is handy, but normal users can still revert a bunch of edits at the same time by going into the History and clicking "Edit" on the last revision before the bad edits were made (admins still have to do that if other people have edited in the interim). The whole process takes a minute or so, as opposed to the seconds used for Rollback, but really, that's too small a change to justify all the hastles of installing a new rank.
 * 3) - There is no reason we need a new rank. Per All.
 * 4) - I disagree in response for all. I don't think that another new rank should be set here. In that case, you have decided to create some of the other ranks seen in Wikipedia (checkusers, stewards, oversighters, etc), which they have a more specific action to do, but resulting more complicated to add these restricted features here to an user who is going to be promoted basically.
 * 5) - Per Blitz and Coincollector. There is no reason why a normal user couldn't just undo an edit. Promotions aren't a "title" but rather a set of tools experienced users use, and it does seem incredibly pointless to make porple go through the work to make another usergroup that can virtually do the same thing normal users can do.

Comments
I am not sure if this falls under the promotions rule of proposals, I do remember a proposal about Patrollers, though.
 * Okay, a few notes here.


 * First and foremost, once this clears, we must inform about the changed that need to be made. (If they can be.)
 * Secondly, what kind of powers would this ranking have? Patrollers have the ability to Block, Patrol, and Rollback, so this ranking would have to have even less powers.
 * Third, the proposals page does not need to be updated by a Sysop. Any user can archive proposals.

--


 * To respond to your notes:


 * I will make sure that knows about this. He seems to have been offline lately, if he is when we tell him, and he doesn't respond, I won't know what to do then.
 * This new ranking would have the powers of Rollback and Patroling, not much less than a Patroller, but they are basically Patrollers in training.
 * I know, I have archived proposals before, but a lot of users who see proposals just sitting there and don't do anything about it. This could possibly be a part of the new position, making sure that everything is up to date. This would help keep the flow of Wiki going.

I hope that explains everything.

Cool, thanks for elaborating.
 * Porplemontage was recently on a short hiatus, but he returned last night. He'll be active daily, likely.
 * Okay. This is merely my thoughts on a Monitor's power, but I believe they should only have the ability to Rollback. There are several wikis that have a rank just for rolling back, so I think that would be a good idea. But, since this is your proposal, I'm not forcing my opinions on you.
 * Alright, that sounds fair.

--


 * Well, now that I look at what you said, I think you are correct. I think the Moniter would be too similar to Patrollers with both powers, they should only have Rollback. Thank you for pointing that out.
 * Alright, then. You have my support!
 * Thank you for your support and help with the proposal itself.

But, what I am saying, is that the Wiki has been slow, and that a new ranking could possibly help. Some users might think that they shouldn't do stuff if they don't have a fancy title (which I think would be dumb, but very well might be true). Some users who qualify for Patroller never get promoted, (and one user, who's name I will not state, was never promoted, did a lot on the wiki. He has retired and considered himself a failure). Besides, as I said, even a tiny position such as the proposed Monitor can have a big effect on the wiki. If the Patroller ranking was deleted, then why was it added back to the wiki? It was considered a small position to the wiki, but when it was deleted, people realized that change. So, yes, even a minor position can have a big effect.
 * And besides, think about it. Do we have a need for Sysops? If you think about it, we could just break up the position and give more duties to the Bureaucrats and Patrollers. A Sysop can be compared, in a sense, to a Patroller with a few more duties or a Bureaucrat with less duties, so it can easily be done. If the Sysops group was broken up right now, those in the group who are not Bureaucrats can either be promoted to Bureaucrat or demoted to Patroller. Right? So, the proposed Monitor can be thought of as a user with a little extra power or Patrollers with a little less power.
 * The Patroller rank was gone for a long time and the wiki was just fine; it was brought back because the place became all the more active and we could justify having Patrollers around again. Also, promotions aren't just about power, but responsibility; even if someone is really active, they may not be ready for the ability to block or promote people. There's much more to Wiki politics than meets the eye, so having Bureaucrats (executive decisions), Sysops (rule enforcement and content regulation) and Patrollers (monitoring) does make sense. Some Wikis do skip Sysops, but their user population dynamics are different than ours, and can therefore be handled differently; what works for them might be disasterous for us. Also, your "Sysop is just a less powerful 'Crat/more powerful Patroller" logic is flawed: all ranks can be seen as "just" more or less powerful than the others. -
 * Ok, a few things to you, Walkazo:


 * I understand what you said about the Patrollers being removed and reinstated, and wouldn't another rank be good, then? This could give the wiki a better chance to have more activity among the users.
 * Did you even look at the link I added on the proposal? I listed some of the powers and responsibilities of this proposed promotion.
 * The monitor position would be kind of like training for Patroller. Not all users are ready for promotions, and this position can help shape some of the users into better candidates for promotion.
 * I was only using the "Sysop is just a less powerful "Crat/more powerful Patroller" as an example, I beleive in Sysops, and could not imagine what horrors could happen without them. Also, I was using it to prove wrong the quote below.
 * The Sysops thing I mentioned was also not my logic, but 's
 * Here is the quote: " - Considering Patrollers were once removed not having enough power, a ranking whose only power is a souped up version of something normal users can already do (Anyone can undo an edit) seems incredibly pointless" - It also may seem pointless, to some users, to have Sysops or Patrollers. Also, why do we have rollback? If any user can undo an edit, then I guess the Patrollers, Syops, or 'Crats don't need rollback either, am I correct? And, if Patrollers boosted activity, then couldn't the proposed Monitors, too? It can, in fact, train people for Patroller-hood while still retaining some of their "regular" user features. So that above statement by can also be considered "incredibly pointless" also, right?


 * Patrollers have something of an actual, clearly defined role. Your proposed rank can... revert stuff faster (And even there, most trolls only vandalize a page once. the only difference rollback has with undo is that it removes all edits by one user instead of the last). While a Patroller could at least block the vandal, a monitor would be stuck reverting the vandal's edit up until an higher rank comes. And the "It will increase activity!" argument is very flawed, if anything, chances are anyone that have an interesting thing to bring have already edited.

I'd also like to point out you simple can't create a new rank out of the blue, you need a plugin for that. --Blitzwing 07:08, 30 April 2009 (EDT)
 * Blitzwing, I can understand your point, but this rank would be a little more than just a rank... As I have said before, it could help train users who have the potential to be Patrollers, but are not yet just ready. And I said it could increase activity, I never said it definitely would.
 * The Patrollers themselves are supposed to be a "training" for sysop, having another rank to "train" is very redundant, especially since such a small rank could easily lend itself to a mass of Biased, not well thought out promotions. --Blitzwing 17:24, 30 April 2009 (EDT)

The extension is right here; it's still compatible with our version of MediaWiki. Personally, I doubt that activity will increase because of a new rank. But, I do believe that it will 1) Give users something even more to look forward to, and 2) it will make vandalism easier to revert for some users. Sure, it may only be a few seconds' difference, but the shortest amount of time seems to make all the difference at times. --
 * Now that I think about it, the rank may not increase activity, and I agree with Stooben Rooben.

As I said above this could really inprove the wiki by making more active users.
 * It could possibly make more active users, it actually may, it may not.

yea it may not make more active users its just I personilly think that it has a good chance of makeing users more active, just my oppion.
 * Okay

Removals
''None at the moment.

Splits & Merges
''None at the moment.

Policy on Soundtracks
Looking through the Wiki, I've noticed that we have very inconsistent coverage of soundtracks. This is because we have no policy on soundtracks. Our current soundtrack coverage consists of Music and subpages, and Template:Media. As it is, these pages are maintained according to the standard of "whatever we felt like at the time." Many of them include unofficial track names and links to full tracks from the games. I believe this system is unacceptable for several reasons:


 * 1) In linking the soundtracks, we might inhibit Nintendo's ability to make a profit, as game soundtracks are often sold as standalone products or promotional merchandise.
 * 2) Most songs from games are not officially named. Therefore, they all fall under the categories of conjectural info and fanon.
 * 3) Relating to #1 above, their inclusion may put the wiki in a questionable legal situation.

Therefore, I propose we instate one of the following alternative policies:


 * 1) Cropped Soundtracks: Include soundtracks, but ONLY as clips of the first, say, 30 seconds of each song.
 * 2) Degraded Quality: Include soundtracks at a low bitrate, so the clips will be undesirably to people looking to pirate the soundtrack.
 * 3) No Coverage: Do not cover game soundtracks.

Proposer: Deadline: 2 May, 2009, 20:00

Cropped Soundtracks

 * 1) - I think that if we are to do something about soundtracks, it shouldn't be to get rid of them completely. I do agree with 2257, but when I finish my pipeproject, we can at least try to start adding soundtracks. I do not see why we have to stop making soundtracks when we have barely started putting them on the wiki, and voting No Coverage though it isn't getting rid of much we currently have, it will get rid of what could be coming eventually. I think 2257 is right so i'll vote for Cropped Soundtracks, but No Coverage is really not necissary.
 * 2) the mariowiki is supposed to cover everything mario which includes soundtracks, and as for piracy a person who wants to pirate the song isnt going to get all they want out of 30 seconds

No Coverage

 * 1) - Per 2257. I find that no coverage should be made on songs featured in Mario games for all the reasons 2257 mentioned. It's an unnecessary risk that the wiki should not take.
 * 2) - Per 2257. There is no reason to keep these pages, and we don't want to make Nintendo not able to make money!
 * 3) - Per 2257, thats piarcy
 * 4) - Per, See discussion.
 * 5) Per all, and I think we should only have the best quality here on the wiki, or nothing at all. Besides, I have to say this would be piracy.
 * 6) Well, my last comment in this page was erased by previous wiki dificulties (hacking) but, i say that piracy, and i'm not by piracy side!

Discussion
degraded copies make the wiki look degraded. Lu-igi board 10:08, 26 April 2009 (EDT)

Lu-igi board: It's what Wikipedia does, that's really why I suggested it. Zafum: What do you plan to do about the tracks with no names, and how do you plan to solve the copyright issue?

I'm a little divided on the subject. I can understand the issue about MP3s on the wiki, however I'm not sure that removing the soundtrack pages altogether would be beneficial. (I'm mainly divided because I think I might be able to help contribute, meaning supply things like album covers and possibly some corrections on track details.) I'm interested to hear your thoughts on this, and thereafter I will make a decision.


 * I guess the database was reverted for some reason, (Was it Rudniki? O_o) (The database was reverted because of Rudnicki, not by him. )because I actually already talked about this. Anyway, when a soundtrack is released by Nintendo separately from a game, it would still be covered under official merchandise.
 * I see, thanks for clearing it up.

While I have no opinion on including or excluding samples of tracks, I feel that we DO need to expand our OST sections a bit, particularly to try and fill out the merchandise categories. --

Make rules for Poll Selection
The poll page is really falling apart, little by little. So I've come up with some rules that we could make that would eliminate unwanted, or repeated polls, and would make the page look much more formal:
 * 1) No signatures
 * 2) All polls with 2 more opposers than supporters will be deleted
 * 3) All repeated polls will be deleted
 * 4) All non mario polls will be deleted
 * 5) All polls that have over 10 options will be deleted

Proposer: Deadline: 4 May, 2009, 17:00

Make Rules

 * 1) - Per me.
 * 2) - The polls page needs some support. I've been thinking of some new rules since the duty was just passed to me, and these look just fine.
 * 3) The polls really need these rules
 * 4) Per all, Zafum does have a few points.
 * 5) Though i rarely agree with Zafum, this time i have to, Per
 * 6) - OMG THANKS ZAFUM!!!!! I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS PROPOSAL WAS MADE!!! *realizes he's shouting* Ahem, I really wanted a proposal like this one. I've been posting messages in the Poll Selection talk page to make people (and specially Sysops) enforce some rules. Once again, great job, Zafum. I'm glad you took some minutes of your precious time to type this. :awesome:
 * 7) - Right to the nail. This surely will work.
 * 8) - Per all.

Creating Pages for Galleries
Going to the point, I see that certain pages have a lot of pictures in their gallery sections, especially in the characters' pages. My proposal consists if we can create a page for those big galleries, while a small part of such gallery can be seen in the original page. This is simple, and can reduce the loading time for the pictures, setting them in an independent page (in a subpage attached to the article's page, exactly); similar to the quote pages, but using images. I have a small proof where this game's artwork was set here.

Proposer: Deadline: 7 May 2009, 17:00

Agree

 * 1) - Said above.
 * 2) Per Coincollector, I think this would be a good idea, my computer is slow even loading a short page!
 * 3) - Per Coincollector.
 * 4) - Though the loading time on my computer is really not that bad, if it helps others with their comps, I guess it's worth a try.
 * Per Coincollector.
 * Per Coincollector and Time Q's comment.
 * Per all; I'm definitely for this. Would be a great help.
 * 1) - Per Coincollector
 * 2) - Per all.

Comments
I think it would make sense to make those gallery pages sub-pages of the article where the images were taken from. For example, Luigi's gallery should be put on a page called "Luigi/Gallery".


 * OK, let's do it.