MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/2

Merging Yoshi (species) with the Yoshi colors
KEEP SEPARATE 3-1

Do the colors of Yoshis deserve articles? Most are color variants of the Yoshi (species). Does this mean we have to mere them all?

Proposer: (started by ) Due Date: Thursday, August 2, 2007, 17:00 EDT

Support Merge

 * 1) There can be a section about the colors of Yoshis, similar to Toads. I don't see many distinctive properties about the Yoshi colors and they should be merged into this article.

Oppose Merge

 * 1) They deserve articles with Category:Sub-species.
 * 2) different personalities, major differences in Yoshi's Story (So 've heard), and they are much different then the Toads, who are pretty much all the exact same.
 * 3) – In games such as Super Mario World, Yoshi's Story, and Yoshi Touch and Go, colors of playable Yoshis have affected gameplay, and while Yoshi colors such as Blue Yoshi have been officially named, Toad colors have not. Yoshi colors strike me as worthy of articles.

Comments
"Major differences in Yoshi's Story (So 've heard), " Actually, the only diferences is that they like better (Read: They gain more health when they eat one.) the fruit that matche their color. Really, Only the Black & White yoshi stand out of the crowd. And where the Yoshi with different colloration showed a different personality? I played SMW, SMW2 and YS, and they din't seem to act different. Gofer

I am waiting for a response, where did indivual colored Yoshi showed different personnality? Gofer


 * I don't really think they ever have (not that I've played every game out there), save for some individual Yoshis (like Yoshi and Boshi and the PiT Yellow Yoshi) who seem to have personalities regardless of their color. The SMA2 manual did give its Baby Yoshis personalities based on their color, though, by applying adjectives such as "hotheaded" to the baby Red Yoshi.

Actually, Yellow ones have always had that personality *no offence YY* Lazy and hungry.

Scroll Boxes
REMOVED 4-1

The template is used in Big Eight articles for galleries, quotes, and navigation templates to make the articles look shorter. If the proposal of removing them is accepted, the template should still be kept, as it is used outside of the Big Eight articles as well.

Proposer: Deadline: August 3, 2007, 20:00 EDT

Support Removal

 * 1) - In my opinion, they are really hindering the article flow and style, creating errors when trying to edit sections coming after the scroll box, and might simply annoy readers, including me.
 * 2) I agree
 * Ya,
 * 1) I completely agree with Cobold.

Oppose

 * 1) It cuts down the size of the article.

Comments
also said he doesn't like them. - 15:11, 27 July 2007 (EDT)

Banner Change
ACCEPTED 3-0

Proposer: Fixitup Deadline: August 6, 2007, 17:00 EDT

Support

 * 1) I like the new ones but I would rather have a different desighn.
 * 2) – anything with the same artwork. Itadaki ended up looking nice!
 * 3) As per Wayoshi, though External Links needs Bowser somewhere behind Wario and Waluigi.

Comments
I think we should he atleasts Mario, Luigi, Bowser,Peach,Yoshi,and Wario in the banners. That's what I think
 * Um, just to get this straight we're voting for new banners? So Support is to support new banners and opppose is to just stay with the most recent ones?

Basically. Fixitup

The above is something I whipped up. There is a version of the WIKI STUFF banner without Toad and another without Yoshi, I added them because there ended up being room. So everyone please tell me what you think and how I could improve or if they are fine as is. Fixitup
 * I would suggest making WIKI STUFF less bright on the right-hand side. 22:54, 30 July 2007 (EDT)
 * Shouldn't we just take this straight to Steve? Like I did last time.
 * The first is better IMO

I left this message on Plumber's discussion page and thought I should address it to anyone else who wanted Bowser as well. I know you probably like Bowser but putting him in with Wario and Waluigi without making it look god awful isn't possible. He just doesn't blend well there and to make him proportioned is just out of the question. Trust me, you don't even wanna see how far I got before noticing it wasn't gonna happen. Unless you can actually get me a perfectly transparent bg for all of the Itadaki Street DS art then I can't do it. Fixitup

Moving Koopa Paratroopa
DON'T MOVE 2-0-4

The flying Koopas are currently under the article name of "Koopa Paratroopa", their official name from Super Mario Bros. However, I believe that we should use a name from more recent games, such as Paratroopa or Parakoopa as the article name.

Proposer: Due Date: August 17, 2007, 20:00 EDT

Move to Paratroopa

 * 1) - It's their most-commonly used name.
 * 2) - Per Cobold

Leave at Koopa Paratroopa

 * 1) Walkazo Changing it to Parakoopa could be just as silly as changing Pink boo, the name used in several games, to Red Boo, the name used in Mario Party 8.
 * 2) It sounds more official this way.
 * 3) It's the full name.  The fact that the abbreviation has been used in its place in later games really doesn't mean that the name has been changed.  I would say that something like this would only be applicable in the case of Bloober's name change to Blooper.
 * 4) per Stumpers

Comments
Parakoopa should still be a redirect, at least.
 * Of course. Just like Peach should redirect to Princess Peach, etc.
 * And Mario should redirect to "Mario Mario"?
 * I don't think so: that was his name only in other media. Rather, I would put Mario Mario as a redirect to Mario.  Here's the thing: they're called the Mario Bros., but that doesn't mean their last names are Mario.  It's just an assumption we've made based off of information from the Real World.  Who knows how it works in the Mushroom Kingdom?  Besides, remember how Wario and Waluigi are called Wicked Bros.?  Perhaps the ___ Bros. thing doesn't even signify brotherhood.
 * In Yoshi Island they are brothers as they were delivered to the SAME Parents Walkazo
 * I wasn't saying they aren't brothers. Simply that relying on the whole ___ Bros. concept to work as it would in our world isn't trustworthy, though, you see?  All I'm saying is that we don't know their last names.  13:42, 11 August 2007 (EDT)

Merging Wario Treasures
MERGING 7-0


 * From with Grodus said on the template talk page, I'd like to add a bit more. First off all the articles state are:


 * Number of the Treasure
 * Description
 * Retail Value
 * Episode
 * All which would be covered in the table, this would very much be like the Badges page. Any thoughts comments?

Proposer:  (started by ) Due Date: August 17, 2007, 20:00 EDT

Merge

 * 1) - Per Above
 * 2) Gofer Theyy are too minor to warrant an article.
 * 3) – there's 130, right? And they each have the same info? Sounds like a job for a table page.
 * 4) - Too minor objects, and too many of them.
 * 16:40, 10 August 2007 (EDT) too many orphaned pages appearing.
 * 1) Per Cobold.
 * 2) I find it ironic that my support was deemed "unsupported" by someone who writes "per so-and-so" after all of his posts.  Please don't get rid of my vote.  All I said was that we should do this only if we have a way to link readers to the part of the page where the item is, and not just to the top of the page.  Here, I'll through in some good, hard boiled support. "Too many pages is nasty." Yay... it's been said before!

Comments
Also all of these show up on the Orphan Pages.
 * Because of a bug. 14:21, 12 August 2007 (EDT)
 * No actually I linked them to the MOD article and they're all gone :P

OK, this proposal already ended!!! Yeah; and I finished working on the table; but it needs more infomation about the rest of 130 Wario's Treasures! *goes moving this part* Let's get a move on to the tables I MADE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Featured Images
OPPOSED 4-3

There is already the, we should use it. The system will be exactly like the original FA system.

Proposer: Deadline: August 19, 2007, 17:00 EDT

Support

 * 1) It's about time we got a new project and put that template to use.
 * 2) Seems Like an excellent Idea too me, unlike those anger management classes I got twice
 * 3) Compitition is fine.  I mean... we got rid of the FA already, and everyone's just sitting around sorta and being confused at the new system.  Ugh... it's so... EXTENSIVE!!! Agh!

Oppose

 * 1) --- "Could create Competition" ~Wayoshi Like, everywhere
 * 2) – no need to assess images. The template is used to give a current FA an illustration on the Main Page, that's all. Max2: I'm not so worried about competition for people finding better images, I just think we're not big enough to sustain a steady supply of spectacular images. Many that are uploaded are quite small.
 * 3) Per Wayoshi
 * 4) Besides, images are harder to assess than articles because of their nature. There's no style or depth to be talked about.

Comments
Actually, there's plenty of style to talk about. If you don't think you can think of something to say about a picture, then maybe we need to practice here. Example: Princess Peach in Brawl Here I go:

Princess Peach (SSBB) The official artwork for Princess Peach for the game Super Smash Bros. Melee showed a considerable diviation from her original appearance. Typically, Nintendo renders its Mario characters in the style of a simplistic cartoon. However, the Smash Bros. team has acted against this tradition for each of the princess's appearances, allowing her heavy detail on her hair, dress, and face. There you have it. Example #1. That wasn't too hard. :) 13:24, 17 August 2007 (EDT)

Super Stumpy saves the day. or something.

Trouble Center
TRY A COMEBACK 7-5

Face it, folks. The Trouble Center has been rarely used in 2007 after an initial burst, I don't think at all this summer. It's meant for newbies or the experienced to get article help where they cannot, such as knowledge of classic or obscure games. But, both of these kinds of members have fallen through: very few newbs become full members here and usually ask a veteran instead or don't have any questions for article content; veterans work at what they are strongest OR are more involved in sub-communities such as Fantendo or Userpedia instead.

Our community is just not big enough to sustain the ideal function that was set last year. Oh well, but we would survive.

Proposer: Deadline: August 23, 2007, 17:00 EDT

Drop It

 * 1) – community size too small to reach ideal goal, thus it has fallen through like a dead weight.
 * 2) It was a good idea, but right now I think it's function would be better served through main page postings, rather than a complex array of pages that only will confuse newbies.  Oh, that brings up another question: what's going on with the featured articles?  Could the new system just be too complex or am I just confused?
 * 3) The multiple sub-pages of the Trouble Center would confuse many newbies, especially considering 99% of them have trouble with the simplest syntax. They can always just ask more experienced members.
 * 4) Per Stumpers and Phoenix
 * 5) I've had calls up since April or March and they haven't been taken. I just don't think it's serving it's main function.

Try a Comeback

 * 1) - it has potential to become very useful again, maybe just a team needs to fire it up again. All it needs is maybe sometime on the sitenotice...
 * 2) - It will always be used people will always need help not everyone is good at this and not everyone can get certain pictures for arcticles.
 * 3) – It seems like a useful feature, even if it is used sparingly. We could try to revive it, and it would be worthwhile if these efforts were successful.
 * 4) Bastila Shan As far as i know, this gives the newer users a chance to help out vets which can really boost the moral and make them long-term editors, it seems cool In my opinion.
 * 5) its practically a help desk, it helps people with there problems.
 * 6) Its not even on the sidebar >.<
 * Yes, it deserves another chance.

The Terrible Big Fandom
DELETED 9-0

Ok people, I'm just sick and tired of even seeing the words "Big Eight". The article is totally nothing but fanon cruft. I think we should just get rid of the article and any mentioning of it within other articles. When you look at it this way all the article is saying is "Uh ok these eight characters appeared playable in early spin-offs before other people and a lot of them are used a lot in their own games or a mainstream game so they are the most important eight characters and since a lot of people think so it is a fact.". Maybe I'm exaggerating, but I don't think so. Oh and, no adding or removing of any characters could fix this thing. WE MUST DESTROY IT WITH FIRE (no not literally)

Proposer: Fixitup Deadline: August 24, 2007, 17:00 EDT

Kill It

 * 1) 1337Yoshi-I never thought much about it before, but now that you mention it, it sounds like a waste.
 * 2) - The Big Eight (and the Marioverse) have already been made writer guidelines. As such, the Big Eight references in articles should indeed be removed, and Marioverse should be replaces with Mario series.
 * 3) – Per Cobold.
 * 4) – Definitely. I was thinking the same thing, but Cobold worded it better.
 * 5) – Whoa, that much dirt on one part. And the references that contain "Big Eight", *makes a thumbs-down* DE-LATED!!!!!!!!
 * 6) I say we kick its big, eight butts out of the Wiki! Go, Fixitup!  (but you gotta admit, I helped weaken it earlier... :D)
 * 7) It is not official by Nintendo, only made up by fans. Get rid of it.
 * 8) its fanon info.
 * 9) agree with like everyone. Just because they were all in Mario Kart 64 doesn't make them any more special than the other people. Besides, it causes fights.

Comments
While some characters are obliviousy important than other, deciding who is a Big Eight and who is not is more of an opinion than anything. Per example, do Toad really qualify? Sure, he have his own game... but all he do nodaway is appearing in some spinoff. I don't see the point in it, anyway. Gofer
 * We would have to edit the writer guidelines as well, to say these are general terms used by fans, but are not actual canon and should not be mentioned in articles. 12:41, 17 August 2007 (EDT)
 * I agree, some people are obliviously more important than others, but yeah I couldn't agree more. I'm not sure how the writer guidelines work, but the point of this is to simply rid of any existence of the article.Fixitup

Comments
um... veterans leavig is true. and that the Trouble Center is like never used... and the fact that some of our users spend way more time at other wikis... but we're sure as heck not low on community!

Nobody knows about it cause itsn ot on the sidebar.

New Feature: Chronology
ADD POLICY 8-0

This is a proposal to impliment a new writing policy that would give order to writing about Mario's fictional universe. Chronology provides a framework for writing about Mario's "history", as well as settle disputes about where to place items in a "History" or "Biography" section. The intent is not to say what we are writing is the official chronology, only Nintendo can say that. The purpose of the chronology policy is to provide a guide for writers when trying to place the order of games in a history section.

Proposer: Son of Suns Deadline: August 31, 2007, 20:00 EDT

Add

 * 1) Son of Suns I am the proposer and my reasons are given above.
 * 2) Mr. SoS has a point.
 * 3) - Very well written guideline, can create more consistency between articles around the wiki.
 * 4) it would clear up a lot of confusion about the Marioverse.
 * 5) – A helpful guideline and good way to keep chronology consistent.
 * 6) Per the reasons given above.
 * 7) i agree with knife.
 * 8) Walkazo Right now many articles have history/biography sections with dissimilar ordering of the games. This proposed timeline will certainly put an end to that confusion (as others have stated above) and is an inspired idea.

Comments
To Plumber, we would simply be putting them in order of release unless it was obvious that it must be somewhere else. Luigi's Mansion is not speculation, it is in order of release. References are made to the game in titles released afterwards, so it cannot be at the end. We are not speculating on its placement, we are putting it where Nintendo gave it to us. -- Son of Suns
 * Ah, OK. 13:46, 26 August 2007 (EDT)

Removal: Glitch Articles
ARTICLES MERGED 10-0

Glitch articles are a problem, as we could have thousands upon thousands of them, although none of them have been officially named. I am proposing that we eliminate all conjecturally named glitch articles and either merge them to a "List of Glitches" article (similar to the Beta Elements page) or just erase them completely. If this proposal goes through, someone can take action to create a List of Glitches page. If no one cares, the articles will simply be removed. Either way would be fine. However, the Minus World article should be kept, as it has been referenced in Mario games and has an official name. A list of glitch articles can be found here.

Proposer: Son of Suns Deadline: August 31, 2007, 20:00 EDT

Delete or Merge Glitch Articles

 * 1) Son of Suns I am the proposer and my reasons are given above.
 * 2) Sir Grodus I had this idea a while back, but forgot about it. And yes, putting the glitch articles all in one place seems best; though I'm not opposed to just getting rid of them completely, since I see no real use in having them anyways.
 * 3) – 1000s of minor errors in programming are better put on 1 good-sized page
 * 4) I think they should be deleted, but also keep the Small Fire Mario page because it appears in a few more games.
 * 23:09, 24 August 2007 (EDT) glitches are unintended results of the developers, thus they are non-canon. I don't even think they should get a list page.
 * 1) – Most glitches aren't notable enough to merit their own articles, and, as Wayoshi said, there are just too many of them. A List of Glitches page is a good idea.
 * 2) - I agree with YY
 * 3) I agree with PY
 * 4) Agree with YY, Knife, and Wayo.
 * 5) Walkazo - I agree with YY, Knife, Wayoshi and Max2. Also, lots of glitches don't even have their own articles, being mentioned in the "Trivia" or "Glitch" sections of their games' artciles only. It's a pain to find these glitches in the Wiki, but they don't have enough info to be anything more but stubs. Lump all the glitches together and it will make everyone's lives faster and easier, deleteing them will just make the people who want to read about them angry.

Microgames
SPLIT 4-9

We've had list of Microgame pages, like WarioWare, Inc.: Mega Microgame$! Introduction Microgames and individual Microgame articles. This proposal is to finally set whether we should go by list of Microgames or make an article for each Microgame.

Proposer: Knife Deadline: September 1, 2007, 20:03 EDT

Go by Lists

 * 1) Since microgames tend to be 5 seconds long (unlike mini-games), I don't see why we should give each one of them an article. I think we should keep boss microgames though.
 * 2) i've played a little micro-games before, and there really short, i go with knife here.
 * 3) Microgames don't have enough information to make it one article.
 * 4) - Per the three above. They're just way too insignificant.

Make Articles for Every Single Microgame

 * 1) I think they do deserve an article.
 * 2) Son of Suns - Every single microgame is officially named I believe, and it is my personal wiki philosophy to support an article for any officially named game element. Also, microgames change a lot based on the difficulty.  New challenges are added, as well as new characters and backgrounds.  One microgame soemtimes feels like three microgames in one with a common objective.  There is a lot to be said about each microgame.
 * 3) What Son of Suns said.
 * 4) They should each get their own article...
 * 5) I must say that I have shared Mr. Anakin's thoughts on this subject.
 * 6) They all have enough info. The problem is no one will ever take the time writing them.
 * 7) Keep them as full articles. I believe they could be created in a infomative way since I started writing the microgames starting with the first WarioWare game. Here are some examples of microgame articles written by me: Crazy Cars, The Maze That Pays, and Super Wario Bros..
 * 8) Dude, if you are gonna put them on one big list, put all the Mario Party Mini-Games on one big list.
 * 9) I all ready started to make Micro game articles I don't my work to go to waste.

Comments
I just want to say that any micro-game article will probably have more information than many of our item articles, especially Paper Mario items (This item can be cooked with this item and another item. This item heals 25 HP. vs.  This micro-game was developed by this character.  To play the game, the player must do this.  On higher difficulty levels, more enemies appear.) Some articles don't have a lot of information, but that does not mean they don't deserve to be articles. Also, I don't think we should split up any current lists of micro-games until the articles are created (and not be created as stubs). -- Son of Suns

Everyone seems to think a microgame article would be like this:

"(name) is a microgame where you must (whatever)"

But they wouldn't. They could have info on all difficulties, levels, a few of them have cheats, and the like.

Although (most) Microgames do have more to write about than their name and what you do (as Max2 pointed out), they still don't have enough to be full articles. It's a pain to have to go from tiny little article to tiny little article, it would be faster and easier for people to learn about the Microgames if they were all together in one big article instead of 1000s of little ones. And this same mantra should be applied to other stub-esque articles, like Paper Mario items (as cited by Son of Suns), glitches, and many, many more. - Walkazo


 * I believe a "full article" is relative term. To me, I feel anything that is officially named is worthy of an article, regardless of size.  Although the article may be small, it shows the world that we feel everything officially recognized by Nintendo should be recognized by us.  Everything is important, and everything official deserves an article.  Categories and list pages can organize this multitude of articles.  If someone wants to read all the Microgame articles, they can go to the Microgame category.  Although this takes a few extra clicks of the mouse, this tiny effort is symbolic of the effort Nintendo went through to create the subject.  Now I am not going to start any flame wars over this, and I will agree to merges if the community does.  But ultimately, the philosophy I just mentioned will be one I will always advocate and hold on to.   -- Son of Suns


 * I can respect that. - Walkazo

My comment is directed toward Pokemon DP: The difference is that the Mario Party ones are mini-games, whereas the WarioWare ones are micro-games. The ones from the Mario Party series have much more bulk to them and therefore warrant their own articles. Microgames on the other hand, are small and rapid-fire, over in seconds. Not worthy of their own article if you ask me.


 * Mini-games from Mario Party and microgames from WarioWare have the same amount of "bulk". The only difference is that mini-games last longer.  Both have players repeating the same action over and over - mini-games just make you do the action over a longer period of time. -- Son of Suns

Merge Zeus Guy (Snifit) with Zeus Guy (Bandit).
KEEP SEPARATE 1-11

Both species were once on the same page, however, Plumber splitted the page in two without asking anyone first. I say the twop page should be merged since the two species have the same name.

Proposer: Gofer Deadline: September 1, 2007, EDT

Merge

 * 1) Gofer

Keep it that way

 * 1) They are different and deserve different arcticles.
 * 2) They are completely different species.
 * 3) totally different. I agree.
 * 4) – Per above; they're different species.
 * 5) They are DIFFERENT...
 * 6) Yep, they are different enemies. You can't merge them just because they have the same name.
 * 7) Walkazo and PP Different enemies! One is a Bandit, the other is a snifit! Different species for crying out loud, mergeing them because they have the same name is crazy!
 * 8) Keep, they are differant enemies. Although, Plumber should've asked someone before spliting them.
 * 9) They're two different species with the same name.
 * 10) - Separated like this, it's easy to avoid ambiguity and thus, confusion.
 * 11) Luigibros2--There different keep them apart

Comments
If then, I guess we should split the Merlee (aswell as the other shaman) article to the various PM incarnation, they are different. Gofer

Gofers got a point, and they are both called zeus guy. but i'm staying neutral.


 * That is only assumed, not officially stated. - 14:52, 26 August 2007 (EDT)
 * But then, so is the Zeus Guy thing. They act different, look different, but have the same name.

Gofer

Reformat Featured Articles...again!
ADD POLICY 9-0

Featured Articles are an important part of any wiki, and I think it is about time we get users excited about featured articles again. I am propsing we do away with the new PAIR system, and institute a new, simpler system I developed (but heavily based on the successful Wookiepedia FA guidelines). By making the nomination process open to more users, and making it simpler, we will encourage people to get involved in the FA process. This new system will be like the original, but stagnant nominations will be removed after a month of inactivity. That way, we can avoid having huge lists of nominations if no one is working on the articles. All new featured article nominations would have to be recast. If we do not have a featured article by the time the new main page is up, we should invite users to help the Super Mario Wiki find its first featured article. Here is what the featured article nomination page will look like:

The featured articles of the wiki are articles that represent the best the Super Mario Wiki has to offer. This is not a way to showcase the articles of your favorite characters, items, or the like.

An article must…


 * …be well-written and detailed.
 * …be unbiased, non-point of view.
 * …be sourced with all available sources and appearances.
 * …follow the Manual of Style, and all other policies on the Super Mario Wiki.
 * …not be tagged with any sort of improvement tags (i.e. rewrite, expand, etc).
 * …have a proper lead that gives a good summary of the topic and can be used for the front page featured box.
 * …have a reasonable amount of redlinks.
 * …have significant information from all sources and appearances, especially a biography for character articles.
 * …not have been previously featured on the Main Page. Otherwise, it can only be restored to featured status.
 * …include a reasonable number of images of good quality if said images are available.
 * …be notable and have significant content – some complete articles like Spiny Shroopa do not have enough information to become FAs

First, nominate an article you find is worthy of featured status, putting it at the bottom of the list below; see criteria above. Note that a previously featured article cannot be featured on the Main Page again; however, it can be restored to featured status if there are no other featured articles in queue. Others will object to the nomination if they disagree that the article is good enough; they will then supply reasons for doing so, and ways to improve the article (errors, style, organization, images, notability, sources). Supporters adjust the article until the objectors (with reasonable objections) are satisfied. The article is placed on the featured article list and added to the front page queue. Also, if, at least a week after the article's nomination, that article has five supports and no objections, it will be added to the queue, and will be officially known as a "featured article".

How to vote:

Before doing anything, be sure to read the article completely, keeping a sharp eye out for mistakes. Afterwards, compare the article to the criteria listed above, and then either support or object the article's nomination. If you object, please supply concrete reasons for doing so, and how it can be improved. Please cite which rule your objection falls under. Failure to do so will result in your objection being considered invalid. As stated above, any objections will be looked upon by the nominator, supporters, and anyone willing to improve the article, and action will be taken to please the objectors. Once all objectors' complaints have been solved (or the article has five supports and no objections after at least a week), the article will be added to the queue and be officially known as a "featured article".

Also remember to add nominated at the top of the article you are nominating.

Every Sunday the next article in the queue will be highlighted on the Main Page as featured, marked with the featured template and removed from the list of nominations. The beginning of the article then appears on the Main Page via the featured articles template. Nominees that are inactive for a month will be eliminated from the nominations list.

Proposer: Son of Suns Deadline: September 4, 2007, 17:00 EDT

Use this New System

 * 1) Son of Suns - I am the proposer and my reasons are given above.
 * 2) - PAIR was a flop.
 * 3) – I guess it's the old system with more checks for validity. Fine with me, it always seems templates like  are hours of work eventually wasted for me :P.
 * 4) - This is a good system for featured articles. However, the PAIR system helped me to improve the article a lot, helping me to get it into a status in which I can nominate it. I'd like it to stay as a non-compulsory feature, if it's okay.
 * 5) Yes, a simpler system would be used more often.
 * 6) I agree with SoS's reasons.
 * 7) I like it.
 * 8) - See Comment below.
 * 9) I guess.....

Comments
To Cobold: I can keep the templates in existence so people can review freelance. 13:11, 29 August 2007 (EDT)


 * PAIR reviews can still be used to help people improve articles, but they will have no effect on FAs. We can use any system that helps people get articles to the highest quality! =) -- Son of Suns

The system is good, but whatever we decide, we need to get a system and lock it in. As of right now, rules governing FAs have been all over the place.

Unused Image Deadline
ALLOW MORE TIME 9-0

Recently, a user uploaded an image at 23:07, 29 August 2007. Said image was marked for deletion as an unused image at 23:13, 29 August 2007, six minutes later. While I believe the tag was placed there in good faith, it was still a case of jumping the gun.

A while back, I made a note that an image should be used as soon as it is uploaded and was backed by Wayoshi. Now, however, I feel that I was a bit to hasty. I'm seeing more and more images that are being marked for deletion as unused images very shortly after said images where uploaded. I know from experience (as do a great many of you) that sometimes dropping images into articles doesn't always work out, for various reasons (a bit of wikicode is malformed, said images looks like crap in chosen placement, etc.). For these reasons, I'm thinking we should extend the limit a bit. Lets say one day for personal images and 12 hours for everything else. What say you all?

Proposer: Chris Deadline: September 6, 2007, 17:00 EDT

Allow More Time

 * 1) – reasonable time limit, though I feel if a bit of investigation were done to the contribs of the uploader, less issues would come up, as we may discover errors in wikisyntax. Btw, I may be able to list all such images in DPL, not sure
 * 2) seems fair.
 * 3) - I argued on this already, it's needed especially when a used image gets removed from a page. We don't know who removed the image, and if everyone agreed to do so.
 * 4) - I Agree with every single word being spoken on this.
 * 5) -They need more time. Besides, they might find a way to put it in. This has happened to me before.
 * 6) - It should be left more time, he probally was starting to use it, then got sidetracked.
 * 7) Half-an-hour is fair. Six minutes is not.
 * 8) - It's rather unreasonable to delete an image right away if they see it hasn't been used for a couple hours, for example. I'd say give at least a day.
 * 9) what pj said.

Comments

 * Well, seeing as this is now a proposal, I'd like to note that this, as a guideline, would govern people who mark images more than the uploaders. -- Chris 20:35, 30 August 2007 (EDT)

Split Bowser and Bowser Bones
KEEP MERGED 3-8

I think Bowser Bones deserves his own article on the Wiki, seperate from Bowser.

Now before anyone gives me that "but they da same person omgz" stuff, let me just say that Mario is also the same person as Raccoon Mario, Metal Mario, Superball Mario, and Fire Mario. But then again, they all managed to get their own articles. Oh, and don't tell me that he doesn't deserve an article because he was in one game only. That's Superball Mario's case as well, and, excluding remakes, Raccoon Mario's.

Proposer: Dodoman Deadline: September 6, 2007, 17:00 EDT

Split the Articles

 * 1) Dodoman
 * 2) Per guys whose name are Dodo
 * 3) no reason not to, I agree with the claims above completly.

Keep them Merged

 * 1) Son of Suns - They shouldn't be merged because Bowser Bones is an unofficial name. The skeletal Bowser is just named Bowser.  It's the same character and the info seems more important in the Bowser article itself - I would rather read about Bowser's death and afterlife in the Bowser article than have to go to a entirely different article.
 * 2) - No need for an additional conjectural article.
 * 3) Gofer|Gofer Per SOS.
 * 4) Per Son of Suns
 * 5) Per Son of Suns.
 * 6) Walkazo - Per SOS. Besides, for all we know Bowser's been a skeleton plenty of times already (NSMB's not the only time he was dumped in lava, after all). His many deaths and afterlife experiences are better placed within his article, not a conjecturaly named one based on only one of those instances.
 * 7) Per Son of Suns and Walkazo.
 * 8) Per all of the above :P.

Comments
I don't think you can argue that because forms of characters have their own articles, all different forms of characters should have their own articles. I don't think, for example, that we need an article for Mario's paper airplane form from PM2. If you want to argue for Bowser Bones having his own article, you have to point out that he is important enough to warrant it. (I don't know, haven't played the game.) Is the name even official? - 16:42, 30 August 2007 (EDT)
 * Well... he's a boss, that seem notable for me. I don't think he has an official name, I have the official strategy guide, and he's only reffered as "The skeletal version of Bowser."

Gofer

Anyway, I find kind of funny that we have a proposal for splitting a conjectural minor form, but we don't do the same for the officialy named Super Show alter-Ego that cluter up the article. Gofer

As Cobold said, just because some characters have artciles concerning different forms doesn't mean they all have to. I think it should be based on how much can be said abouit the different forms. In the case of Raccoon Mario (for example) you can talk about how Mario becomes a Raccoon and how that enhanses gameplay, as well as out-of-game stuff like how Raccoon Mario is practically the mascot for Super Mario Bros. 3, and how much the Raccoon suit was featured in the TV show based on the game. Meanwhile, for "Bowser Bones" all we can really say is that Bowser falls into the lava, becomes a pile of bones that behaves like a Dry Bones before getting smashed by Mario and dumped into a potion by Junior forming Bowser one again. That's not enough info for a whole article. - Walkazo

Super Mario Sunshine "Secret" Areas
KEEP 2-5

Pages such as The Shell have been created as pages in their own right. I don't think that they are special enough to be credited in their own right simply because they are "Secret" areas. Besides, you actually need them to finish the game. I'm a little put off by the existence of PipeProject: Levels, however, because they are technically levels.

Proposer: Deadline: September 9, 2007, 15:00 EDT

Delete them

 * 1) - As above.
 * 2) Per Phoenix Rider

Keep them

 * 1) Son of Suns - For now, I am saying keep, because these levels appear to be officially named (The Shell article does not have the conjecture tag). As an officially named sub-area, these should be given their own articles. Also, sub-levels such as the Princess' Secret Slide and the Secret Aquarium from Super Mario 64 have their own articles.
 * 2) Why would we delete stage articles? They have every right to deserve articles.
 * 3) Walkazo - I don't see why they should be deleted, they're actual levels after all, and the whole point of Super Mario Wiki is to get as much Mario information available to people as possible, including stuff on all the tiny little levels, sub-areas and worlds of the Mario series. Since it takes slightly more effort to get to Secret Areas, it makes sence to give them articles seperate from the main areas they're found in. For now, anyway.
 * 4) as per above
 * 5) Per above.

Comments
The Shell is a place, and while the corresponding mission is called "The Shell's Secret", it's not actually a "Secret Level", which is what I think all the confusion is about here. And while we're on the subject of Super Mario Sunshine places, I think there should be a category for Super Mario Sunshine Places. That way the sub-areas and the normal areas can be viewed along side each other. - Walkazo

Cool User Lists
DELETE 12-6-4

Many users have a section on their userpage listing other community members they like. Often there is unnecessary conflict and even (pardon) stupid flaming when a user removes someone from this list. I say we get rid of all of these sections – there's no need to hurt anyone's feelings over any one of these. True friends – online or offline – can't be simply added or removed from your life on a list. We have a good group dynamic overall in our community, so let's not wreck it. Another option is to rename & rephrase all these lists so they are neutral, such as "User Neighbors I Know", though removing users could still bring questions and trouble.

Proposer: Deadline: September 19, 2007, 17:00 EDT

Delete Them All

 * 1) – reasons in description above.
 * 2) saying some people are cool and leaving some out is a recipe for bad blood.
 * 3) Bastila Shan You guys are right,
 * 4) Agreed, I removed my Cool Users list already.
 * 5) If the wiki had a few hundred active members, then I could see sections like these working. The way it is, no.
 * 6) Walkazo - Per Xzelion and Ghost Jam.
 * 7) - After reading the above... Per all the other dudes... *Goes to delete his*
 * 8) User:Fixitup - Makes perfect sense to remove them.
 * 9) Even a neutral one will one day cause a problem somewhere.
 * 10) Wayo is right. You couldn't believe how long I wiated to be in one,seems right not to make people do that like me.
 * 11) - i will remove mine right now. I agree fully.
 * 12) I agree. These lists might hurt someone's feelings.

Rephrase for Neutrality

 * 1) - per my comments.
 * 2) Zach121- I think that they should change the name to wiki friends
 * 3) -I'll just descibe if I met/talked to them and how I helped them or how they helped me.
 * 4) Change name like alll guys above
 * 5) no need to totally DELETE it. Dude.
 * 6) -What's wrong with having one. Look at mine! Mine is neutral.

Keep As Is

 * 1) The only people who flame about these things are the people who don't edit.
 * 2) Luigibros2 As long as it ain't flameing or swearing at another user it's fine.
 * 3) – Cool User lists were made simply to list friends and make others feel liked. It's silly to start flame wars over them, and that seems like something very few people here would do.
 * 4) Per Yellow Yoshi

Comments
Could we do something like, users we've come across? or at least something like that.
 * That would be the option "Rephrase for Neutrality". - 16:26, 12 September 2007 (EDT)

oh.....

While I agree that we should nuke the cool user list, I have the impression it would create a flame war as bad as the one over the removal of featured article. Thus, I'm kind of neutral on it. Glowsquid

I havn't seen a flame war, yet, but its stupid to fight over something like this!


 * Fg flamed Glowsquid in chat.
 * To be honest it doesn't matter if we rename it or not, everyone knows what is it, no-mater what the name, at this point renaming it would be useless.
 * Agreed. For something like this to work and not be a problem, we would need a far larger number of active users than we currently do. -- Chris 17:46, 13 September 2007 (EDT)

can i do two? 0_o
 * What?

List of Mario Kart Sponsor
MAKE THIS ARTICLE 14-0

Some day ago, Wayoshi deleted an article about Wario Mall, an organization briefly mentioned on a spot in Mario:Kart DS. The Mario Kart series is FULL of random sponsors. I thought we could create a list of these organization of one page, since they do exist, but aren't major enough to have their own articles.

Proposer: Glowsquid Deadline: September 19, 2007, 17:00 EDT

Create that list

 * 1) Glowsquid
 * 2) Per Glowsquid
 * 3) Bastila Shan What gofer Said
 * 4) - Too minor to warrant articles.
 * 5) Walkazo- Good idea.
 * 6) - Sounds like a neat idea!
 * 7) Per Glowsquid.
 * 8) Snack Sounds like a great idea. Like Cobold said, they are way too minor to have their own articles, but one big list of them would be great.
 * 9) I think I was going to do this a long time ago, but wasn't sure if they should be on a list or not. Now I've made my decision.
 * 10) – This is a great idea; Mario Kart sponsors aren't worthy of their own articles, but a list would be fine.
 * Ya, i've always wanted somethin like this.
 * 1) Why go through article after article? Plus, I have slow internet connection. I mean, whoever known Wario was a maller? I'll help because I have all Mario Karts except for Wii (duh), Super, and Super Circuit.
 * 2) User:Lario Per everyone above
 * 3) - As long as it's kept to only a list, I see no problem.

Comments
I've gathered up most of the things. Though, I probably missed some, including Wario Mall. But a huge in order (except for Nintendo and Mario Kart) is:


 * Super Mario
 * Shoot!!
 * Dangerous!!!
 * Peach Grand Prix
 * Yoshi's Egg Grand Prix
 * Super Mario GP
 * Super Mushroom
 * Luigi Tires
 * Wario Waluigi GP
 * Yoshi Kart
 * Sunshine Parts
 * Mario Kart
 * Daisy
 * Delfino Fruits
 * Koopa Shop
 * Nintendo
 * Waluigi Pinball
 * Waluigi Sport
 * Wario Racing
 * Snowman
 * Skating Rink
 * Koopa Kart
 * Super Star!
 * Wario GP
 * Koopa Sport
 * Moo Moo Farm

Is this most of it? I went trough EVERY course and try looking for them.

Do'h! I forgot. These are the only ones I found in Mario Kart DS. Sorry! I know they're more!

I could try looking for adds in Mario Kart: Double Dash!! (I already do it for fun anyway), but that's the only Mario Kary game I have other than DS. - Walkazo

Do it! And don't pic random order, do it in order, because the past stuff in Mario Kart DS don't advertise. Maybe my bro SonicMario and I can do race to double search in Mario Kart 64. Does anyone have Super Circuit or the first one?

I have the original, and it don't have any kind of sponsor in it. I have Super Circuit (And pretty much every games in thes series except GP, infact. Glowsquid

OK. Does someone live near an arcade that has Mario Kart GP? There's gotts to be at least one! This is pretty big, and if someone makes the article add

because there have got to be more.

There's no adverts in Super Circuit b/c the stages are flat, just like the original. I just wanna say thanks for going through all of this :)

O rly? OK. Now Double Dash, 64, and finish Mario Kart DS.

I've seen one thats not on that list in mario kart 64: koopa air.Super Yoshi 10. Should I add it?Super Yoshi 10

That's not a list of ads in all the Mario Karts. It's just DS. Start another one on the comments if you feel like it, not add to list!
 * Actually, it is.

Glowsquid

What? You mean Mario Kart DS has almost all the ads?

Recipes Pages
DO NOT MERGE 3-9

Almost all of the Recipe Articles are short and state:
 * What Game
 * What Effect
 * How to get the item
 * Picture

All which would be included in a table. Table shown here, Credit to SpikeKnifeNeedleSword for the design. This would work such as the Badges page. Lets face it they're too minor and too many of them.

Proposer: (started by ) Deadline: September, 19, 2007, 17:00 EDT

Merge

 * 1) My Reasons are stated above.
 * 2) Bastila Shan Xzelion is right
 * 3) - Though items which can be gotten without cooking, such as the Boo's Sheet, should still have their own article.

Keep Separate

 * 1) Son of Suns - As officially named items they should be kept. They have just as much info as any other item in the series.  They are exactly the same as regular items: what game, what effect, how to get the item, and a picture.  Look at the Strange Leaf article, a normal item used for recipes.  It is exactly what is in a recipe article, or any other item article for that matter.
 * 2) - We have articles for other items, dont we? D:
 * 3) All items should get an article, since a lot of them can be gotten by cooking, AND by finding them somewhere not to mention some other reason... *Talks for hours*.
 * 4) Per SoS.
 * 5) Per that Pokemon
 * 6) – Per SoS.
 * 7) Booster - Per SoS. They qualify for seperate articles, as they are officially named, and they have different effects, unlike say Wario game treasures.
 * 8) Glowsquid - Per Booster.
 * 9) Bad idea to merge them all, because they have each have a chart, and some don't causing it to be rather messy and would even longer then the Jump article!

Comments
Son of Sun: Your example would be a little more convincing if you didn't purposely choose a stub. For normal items, you can talk about were they are found, if they are revallant to the plot (Like the Dried Shroom) ,how you can obtain them apart for beating up random enemy, and how they can be used for cooking. For a recipe, you simply say which item can be used for cooking them and their effects, deffinately a table job IMO. Glowsquid

I think there's been some confusion between recipes and food items. As far as I know, Recipes are "Item 1 + Item 2 = Item 3", not the food items involved, which is what seems to be the common belief (Food Items are even categorized as Recipies, which makes no sence). I'll use the Dried Shroom article to highlight my point: The text part is about the item Dried Shroom, and the "Recipes" secion is a list of the recipes it's used in. Make a list of the recipes, but keep the articles about the items. - Walkazo

Look at the Shroom Steak article. There's numerous ways to make one. If we were to list all possible ways of making each item, the chart would be huge. Also, a list makes it harder to describe items in detail, such as is it worth the money to cook, or is it unworthy, and should only be made once just for the recipe log? Booster

There are problems on with both solutions. The current way, we have a high number of articles that are just a few words shy of stub-status (EX: Fried Shroom). The other way, we end up with a handful of very, very long articles (EX: Shroom Steak). We need to find a middle ground. -- Chris 20:01, 17 September 2007 (EDT)

Mario Cartoons: Split Multiple Episode Pages
SPLIT ARTICLES 9-1

Some of The Super Mario Bros. Super Show! cartoon articles are seperated by what cartoon episode they appeared with, such as the article King Mario of Cramalot / Day of the Orphan. This proposal would split these articles into two independent articles. Each episode is independently named, and in re-releases of the series, such as on video and DVD, the episodes are often grouped differently from the original television release, showing that the pairings are rather arbitrary. While it should be noted what episode each one originally appeared with, I feel each cartoon should have its own article. It's strange having an article that is split in two sections that are basically completely unrelated.

Proposer: Son of Suns Deadline: September 21, 2007, 20:00 EDT

Split these Articles

 * 1) Son of Suns - I am the proposer and my reasons are given above.
 * 2) Per Son of Suns;
 * 3) Agreed. They are two entirely differant episodes, with nothing to do with each other.
 * 4) Per all the ones on my side
 * 5) Walkazo - Per everyone above.
 * 6) – Per SoS.
 * 7) Sir Grodus – Per Son of Suns; The Adventures of Super Mario Bros. 3 articles are seperate, so I guess these should be too.
 * 8) Booster - Per everyone else. The two stories are unrelated. I'd be willing to fix things up a bit once this proposal goes through.
 * 9) Sounds good.

Keep them Merged

 * 1) Minimariolover10 For "cartoon-learners", I think the should only spend half the time, and I find it fine.

Comments
Minimariolover10: Could you expand on your comment about cartoon-learners. Most of the Mario cartoon episodes were "half-episodes" (half of the half-hour show), but they all have plots and deserve their own articles. I couldn't even find an episode called cartoon-learners... - Walkazo

If this proposal goes through (and it probably will), I think that we should integrate the live-action segments from The Legend of Zelda cartoons into the chronology of the segments from the Mario cartoon episodes, like so:

And so on, meaning that every fifth segment would be from the Legend of Zelda, for a total of sixty-five segments. -- Booster
 * 1) Neatness Counts
 * 2) Day of the Orphan
 * 3) All Steamed Up
 * 4) Marianne and Luigeena
 * 5) Slime Busters
 * 6) The Mario Monster Mash


 * I just want to state this is not part of the proposal, but users can debate this issue on article talk pages (or here - whatever; I'm just saying any consensus reached on this issue is distinct from the actual proposal). -- Son of Suns