Talk:Toad Town

Superstar Saga?
Is the beginning region of Superstar Saga clearly Toad Town, or is it conjecture? I don't remember the place being named. - 11:37, 17 August 2007 (EDT)

Toad Town Square was the name.

Room beneath the Toad Town port?
Strange... The last Area Tattle for Toad Town says there's a room beneath the Toad Town port, but I can't seem to find it! Anybody knows how to get there? -

Go on the dock near the lake with Sushi and swim over to the island with a pipe.

SMRPG
Should we include info on the Mushroom Kingdom that appeared in this game? Random User

Super Mario Galaxy 2?
The recently seen thing in the box should be Super Mario Galaxy 2, Right? --Koopa YOshi :) 12:31, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Super Mario 64
If it says that Peach's Castle is located in Toad Town, wouldn't that make Super Mario 64 the first appearance of Toad Town?--Jayt55 20:43, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
 * It never says that in 64, so no. 20:44, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Split Toad Town and Toad Town Mall
I know, the guy that does so much for the M&L: BiS game, back with another proposal - rather a TPP I should say.

I really believe this should be split into two articles because 1 - They both have enough vital information to be independent of each other and 2 - The articles dealing with the Mall would make more sense leading into the Toad Town Mall article over the Toad Town in general.

Toad Town Mall has many stores, many events (both strung be plot and being sidequests) taking place in it. Even though it is part of Toad Town, it is not the same as the area where people reside in. And, if this proposal fails, then at least make a sub-header for the mall.

Proposer: Deadline: October 15, 2011, 23:59 GMT.

Split

 * 1) - Per my proposal.
 * 2) - Per BMB.
 * 3) Per Baby Mario Bloops
 * 4) Per proposal.
 * 5) Per Proposal
 * 6) Per all.

Leave as it

 * 1) I think there would not be that much information and mall is part of toad town. I would think the Mall is best with a sub header.
 * 2) Per NSY.

Comments
There doesn't appear to be much to state for the Toad Town Mall, based on what has been covered on the Toad Town article. If it gets split, we'll have to find a way to expand it. 14:52, 15 October 2011 (EDT)

Toad Town Cave proposal
Yep, more Mario & Luigi related stuff.

Well, there is a section in Mario & Luigi called Toad Town Caves, and since we already have Toad Town and Toad Town Mall split, we could at least split these. Reasons: Different area, vital plot lines within, moves learned, and the list can go on. And as you see from the current Toad Town Mall page, you know that it'll be for sure expanded then what is stated on the Toad Town page as of right now.

But a major question is this: Doesn't it intertwine with Toad Town Tunnels from Paper Mario? I mean, both were the sewers of underground Town Toad, as well as their names almost identical. Should we perhaps merge it with Toad Town Tunnels?

My proposal is whether we merge the M&L info of the Toad Town caves with Toad Town, we split the Toad Town Cave information from the Toad Town into a independent page, or do we just leave it be? And I would have done it with the Toad Town Mall/Peach's Castle Garden TTP's, but I wanted to see how they would play out.

Proposer: Deadline: October 30, 2011, 23:59 GMT.

Split Toad Town Caves from Toad Town into own page

 * 1) - Personally, I like this option because I don't see much connection to Toad Town Tunnels other than location. Of course, that is my opinion.
 * 2) We did a similar thing in the proposal above. Per this proposal.
 * 3) Like what I said in the Peach's Castle Proposal.
 * 4) Got to keep it the same between proposals, let's split it!
 * 5) Per all.
 * 6) - Per all.

Leave it as be

 * 1) I don't like the idea of it because the exit to the tunnels would be a result of directly entering T. Town with little notice. It would be too much of a target for enimies (Bowser in particular) to come in and invade. I would think this is a reasonable explanation, even though it is my opinion after all. Kameka
 * 2) Per Kameka.

"news board"
The Toad Town in Paper Mario has a "news board" which is interesting. For example, K64's name is revealed there. And a gossip-loving Toad often scribbles Princess Peach gossips.

Can there be an article listing all the writings, analogous to List of letters in Paper Mario?

Nobody? I'm going to do a List of Toad Town News in Paper Mario. 122.189.240.166 02:14, 30 July 2014 (EDT)

"Toad Towns" in other games
I believe Toad Town as a name and location is only mentioned in Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi series, while the town areas in the other games mentioned in this article (Mario Party DS, Mario Kart Wii, and both Galaxies) are not called "Toad Town". Take note that just having a town area in front of Peach's Castle may not qualify that area as Toad Town. Unless anyone objects, I recommend that the mentions of town areas not confirmed to be Toad Town should be removed from this article. SmokedChili (Talk) (Thoughts) 08:45, 21 May 2016 (EDT)
 * That is Toad Town. Just because it's not mentioned it doesn't mean it isn't it. Toad Town appears local to Peach's Castle and that is local. 02:58, 15 October 2016 (EDT)

Bowser in Toad Town
Can Bowser enter/terrorize Toad Town in Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story? Or can only Mario and Luigi enter? Ultimate Mr. L ( Talk ) 14:47, 4 October 2016 (EDT)
 * It is more like passing though while playing as him. Only two Toads appear when Bowser enters the south entrance, but only one time. I am not sure about the north entrance. The southern Toads run away at the sight of Bowser. 14:52, 4 October 2016 (EDT)
 * Bowser can enter but he will not be able to jump. -- 06:37, 15 October 2016 (EDT)

Infobox Image
I don't think Toad Town is actually the confirmed location in Super Mario Galaxy, which is used in the infobox. I think an image of Toad Town in either Paper Mario, Paper Mario: The Origami King or Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story would be a lot more accurate. 16:49, August 18, 2020 (EDT)
 * I'm going to remove the Galaxy and Galaxy 2 sections, because whoever wrote that was assuming. The infobox image looks ulgy too. 17:10, August 18, 2020 (EDT)
 * FYI, I re-added the sections because there are still other parts to figure out beforehand, such as navtemplates and infobox mentions. 17:29, August 18, 2020 (EDT)
 * I think something like that would require a proposal.
 * All references to Toad Town in SMG should definitely be removed unless we can find any sources that specifically call it Toad Town in those games. The article makes it very clear that currently it's nothing more than an assumption, only saying that it "resembles" Toad Town or "may be" Toad Town. -- 19:02, August 18, 2020 (EDT)

Remove content related to Super Mario Galaxy games
Following some responses from the discussion I started above, it seems like all mentions of Toad Town in these games are better off removed. There do not seem to be any official references that the areas in these games are labeled as Toad Town, and the area in the first game is labeled as "Castle Gardens" (which even has its own article) in the pause menu. The article itself even speculates it being Toad Town.

Proposer: Deadline: September 1, 2020, 23:59 GMT

Remove

 * 1) Per Proposal
 * 2) I was the one who brought it up. Per Proposal and my comment above. (As well as Waluigi Time's)
 * 3) I think this proposal should've waited for further investigation to make sure nothing says it's Toad Town in either of these games, but with our current knowledge there's no reason to keep it here.
 * 4) Best to just relegate the info to Castle Gardens, especially since there's no mention of Toad Town anywhere in those two games. Per all.
 * 5) The Japanese Encyclopedia Super Mario Bros. also rather refers to both villages as the venue of the Star Festival, so yeah, better to avoid implying there is a continuity with spin-offs that is not explicitly stated.
 * 6) Per proposal.
 * 7) Per all and proposal. No sources even said anything about any content of Super Mario Galaxy series.
 * 8) Per proposal

Keep

 * 1) Per LTL in the comments, the closest thing to a "direct" name is "Peach Castle Town," itself resembling an alternate Toad Town JP name anyway.
 * 2) What I said below: it seems more prudent to merge Castle Gardens with Toad Town, but that'll be a separate discussion at this rate.
 * 3) Per LinkTheLefty. Couldn’t have put it better myself.

Comments
@darknight I meant I made the section, but yeah removing it was your idea. And I would have thought there would be a source found by now since these games have been out for 10 years.
 * You'd think so, but sometimes information is just assumed and then goes unnoticed until a proposal like this brings it to more people's attention, prompting a further dig into official sources. -- 11:48, August 19, 2020 (EDT)

It isn't directly called "Toad Town", but has there ever been an instance where the town surrounding or next to Peach's Castle wasn't generally an incarnation of Toad Town? The Japanese name of the Castle Gardens is merely the same as Peach's Castle, which is true of at least two appearances. Incidentally, the English name "Castle Gardens" may itself come from the internal name PeachCastleGardenPlanet (shortened to PeachCastlePlanet in the second game), referring to the castle and its environment, and the town is split between PeachCastleTownAfterAttack and PeachCastleTownBeforeAttack (in addition to the starting PeachCastleTownGate) - which happens to make this situation sound similar to Super Mario RPG. If anything, I think the Castle Gardens article could merge with Toad Town. LinkTheLefty (talk) 19:23, August 26, 2020 (EDT)
 * That seems very debatable to me.
 * Which part? If you mean Castle Gardens possibly coming from the filename in localization, it isn't unheard of. If you mean about Peach's Castle having another town near it, I'm genuinely curious if that happened, since much like the name of Peach's Castle, Toad Town has evolved over time. LinkTheLefty (talk) 19:50, August 26, 2020 (EDT)
 * I don't think there has been a differently-named town near Peach's Castle, but I mainly meant the part about merging Castle Gardens with this article. Another discussion would probably be needed for that.
 * Yes, that will likely require a separate discussion. 15:05, August 27, 2020 (EDT)
 * The real problem in all of this is assuming continuity between the Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi series and the Super Mario series when said continuity isn’t even in the Super Mario series to begin with. Was the Super Mario Odyssey Peach’s Castle a reference to Super Mario 64? Sure, and yet its surroundings were very different. And both games and Mario Kart 64 (and 8) lacked a town around them. Assuming that these Peach Castle Garden are Toad Town requires assuming some canonicity so that the town near Peach’s Castle is always Toad Town. Either we turn the Toad Town page into a much less useful page about what is around Peach’s Castle or we assume canonicity despite our policy and say that Castle Gardens are Toad Town because it is usually done so in the RPGs. Both these choices are suboptimal at best, in my opinion.—Mister Wu (talk) 16:54, August 27, 2020 (EDT)
 * At the same time, TOK uses a different JP name in-game than any previous ones. I think "using a concept so similar that having them separate is splitting hairs" and "assuming continuity" are two completely different things. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 17:24, August 27, 2020 (EDT)
 * Thing is, this page is already pretty big, splitting hairs would benefit the readers if they look for information only on Paper Mario or Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time, but creating pages about concepts? I can see the point of it, more than once this was discussed, but I think that with the current wiki structure pages that put together a lot of related objects to deal with concepts only create humongous pages. It’s an interesting idea, and I personally like seeing the evolution of these concepts over time and the different takes the various development teams had on those, but we need a better way to do that.—Mister Wu (talk) 20:30, August 27, 2020 (EDT)
 * By "concepts" I am not being absolutely nebulous here; Mushroom Castle Town and Toad Town are just as the same basic thing as Mushroom Castle and Peach Castle. I doubt SM64 was trying to make continuity with SMRPG with "Princess lives in Mushroom Castle," but sense dictates they're the same thing regardless. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 20:49, August 27, 2020 (EDT)
 * The main problem is that at that point we should be making a page about a very generic concept of “town that sometimes is found in front of Peach’s Castle”. There isn’t consistently a town in front of Peach’s Castle, the Japanese name often changes along with the appearance, sometimes the town isn’t even named, references between the various renditions are quite frequently nonexistent. I’m not fond of putting together what we consider to be “same things” in a page that is already generously sized. At this point I would rather go for a further split of the differently named Toad Towns, as it would make the individual pages easier to read and information easier to find for the readers.—Mister Wu (talk) 23:57, August 27, 2020 (EDT)
 * We can, perhaps like we do for certain iterations of Bowser's Castle, but I see no reason to single out the Galaxy games. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:05, August 28, 2020 (EDT)
 * We could maybe start with a review of the Japanese names used in the various games to better understand the state of the subject and of the page, if we can find some recurring names tied to recurring references we can start from those.—Mister Wu (talk) 09:42, August 28, 2020 (EDT)
 * It would probably look like splitting Star Hill - sure, we could do that, but there's multiple ways to go about it that aren't optimal, so it doesn't mean we should - or splitting Peach's Castle, which would be excessive. LinkTheLefty (talk) 12:10, August 28, 2020 (EDT)
 * Still, having a little review of what this page is about would be nice - if the page is already a page about a rather generic subject instead of a consistently named Toad Town then the criteria of what should be in the page and how the page should be organized change.—Mister Wu (talk) 13:58, August 28, 2020 (EDT)