MarioWiki:Proposals

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r149/Deadringerforlove/dessert1.jpg A proposal section works like a discussion page: comments are brought up and replied to using indents (colons, such as : or ::::) and all edits are signed using the code.

This page observes the No-Signature Policy.

How To
 * 1) Actions that users feel are appropriate to have community approval first can be added by anyone, but they must have a strong argument.
 * 2) Users then vote and discuss on the issue during that week. The "deadline" for the proposal is one week from posting at:
 * 3) *Monday to Thursday: 17:00 (5pm)
 * 4) *Friday and Saturday: 20:00 (8pm)
 * 5) *Sunday: 15:00 (3pm)
 * 6) Every vote should have a reason accompanying it.
 * 7) Users who feel that certain votes were cast in bad faith or which truly have no merit can address the votes in the Comments section. Users can ask a voter to clarify their position, point out mistakes or flaws in their arguments, or call for the outright removal of the vote if it lacks sufficient reasoning. Users may not remove or alter the content of anyone else's votes. The voter can remove or rewrite their own vote at any time, but the final decision to remove another User's vote lies solely with the Administrators.
 * 8) " # " should be added under the last vote of each support/oppose section to show another blank line.
 * 9) All proposals that end up in a tie will be extended for another week.
 * 10) If a proposal has more than ten votes, it can only pass or fail by a margin of three votes. If a proposal reaches the deadline and the total number of votes for each option differ by two or less votes, the deadline will be extended for another week.
 * 11) Any proposal that has three votes or less at deadline will automatically be listed as "NO QUORUM." The original proposer then has the option to relist said proposal to generate more discussion.
 * 12) No proposal can overturn the decision of a previous proposal that is less than 4 weeks (28 days) old.
 * 13) Proposals can only be rewritten or deleted by their proposer within the first three days of their creation. However, the proposer can request that their proposal be deleted by a Sysop at any time, provided they have a valid reason for it.
 * 14) All proposals are archived. The original proposer must take action accordingly if the outcome of the proposal dictates it. If it requires the help of a Sysop, the proposer can ask for that help.
 * 15) There shouldn't be proposals about creating articles on a underrepresented or completely absent subject, unless there is major disagreement about whether the content should be included. To organize efforts about completing articles on missing subjects, try creating a PipeProject.
 * 16) Proposals cannot be made about System Operator promotions and demotions. Sysops can only be promoted and demoted by the will of Bureaucrats.
 * 17) If the Sysops deem a proposal unnecessary or potentially detrimental to the upkeep of the Super Mario Wiki, they have the right to remove it at any time.
 * 18) No joke proposals. Proposals are serious wiki matters, and should be handled professionally. Joke proposals will be deleted on sight.

The times are in EDT (UTC -4:00), and are set so that the user is more likely to be online at those times (after work/school, weekend nights). If a proposal is added on Saturday night at 11:59 PM EDT, the deadline is the next Saturday night at 8:00 PM. If it is a minute later, the deadline is a day plus 15 hours (Sunday), as opposed to a day minus 4 hours.

Basic Proposal and Support/Oppose Format
This is an example how your proposal should look like, if you want it to be acknowledged. If you are inexperienced or unsure how to set up this format, simply copy the following and paste it into the fitting section. Then replace the [subject] - variables with information to customize your proposal, so it says what you wish. If you insert the information, be sure to replace the whole variable including the squared brackets, so "[insert info here]" becomes "This is the inserted information", not "[This is the inserted information]". - ===[insert a title for your Proposal here]=== [describe what you want this Proposal to be like, what changes you would suggest and what this is about]

Proposer: Deadline: [insert a deadline here, f.e. "5 January, 2010, 17:00". Rule 2 above explains how to determine a deadline]

====Support====

====Oppose====

====Comments==== - Users will now be able to vote on your Proposal, until the set deadline is reached. Remember, you are a user as well, so you can vote on your own Proposal just like the others.

To support, or oppose, just insert " # at the bottom of the section of your choice. Just don't forget to add a valid reason for your vote behind that tag if you are voting on anoother user's Proposal. If you are voting on your own Proposal, you can just say "Per my Proposal".

CURRENTLY: , 27 2024 (EDT)

Talk Page Proposals
All proposals dealing with a single article or a specific group of articles are held on the talk page of one of the articles in question. Proposals dealing with massive amounts of splits, merges or deletions across the Wiki should still be held on this page.

How To

 * 1) All active talk page proposals must be listed below in alphabetical order. All pages effected must be mentioned in the brief description, with the talk page housing the discussion linked to directly via "". If the proposal involved a page that is not yet made, use to communicate its title. The Deadline must also be included in the entry. Linking to pages not directly involved in the talk page proposal is not recommended, as it clutters the list with unnecessary links.
 * 2) All rules for talk page proposals are the same as mainspace proposals (see the "How To" section above), with the exceptions made by Rules 3, 4 and 5, as follows:
 * 3) Voting in talk page proposals will be open for two weeks, not one.
 * 4) Talk page proposals may closed by the proposer if both the support and the oppose sides each have fewer than five votes.
 * 5) After two weeks, a clear majority of three votes is required. Without the majority, the talk page proposal will be listed as "NO QUORUM".
 * 6) The talk page proposal must pertain to the article it is posted on.

List of Talk Page Proposals
''NOTE: Disorganized talk page proposals created before the current system may be running much longer than the standard two week voting period. In place of a deadline, these are marked as "overtime" and require immediate attention and resolution.''


 * Merge Cobalt Shard into Cobalt Star. (Discuss) Passed
 * Merge Elevator Key (X-Naut) into Elevator Key. (Discuss) Passed
 * Merge Fiery Bubble into Podoboo. (Discuss) Passed
 * Merge Giant Ninji into Ninji or make article. (Discuss) Deadline: 21 January 2010, 17:00
 * Merge Item Block into Used Block. (Discuss) Deadline: 17 January 2010, 15:00
 * Merge Mario's Shirt into Mario, or simply delete it and ban the creation of any other page concerning clothing that does not affect gameplay. (Discuss) Passed
 * Reorganize the "Metal" pages so that all information pertaining to the forms in general are found on Metal Mario, whereas metal characters get stand-alone articles. - Overtime
 * Merge Metal Wario into Metal Mario. (Discuss)
 * Split Metal Mario into and . (Discuss)
 * Move form aspects of Metal Luigi into Metal Mario, leaving information pertaining to the character in Super Smash Bros. Melee on the Metal Luigi article. (Mentioned in above Discussion pages.)
 * Merge Tentacle into Blooper. (Discuss) Deadline: 15 January 2010, 20:00
 * Merge Ultra Shroom into Ultra Mushroom. (Discuss) Deadline: 12 January 2010, 17:00
 * Split Blizzard Midbus and Midbus into separate articles. Deadline: 23 January 2010, 17:00
 * Merge all Stages into Stage. (Discuss)Deadline: 24 January 2010, 15:00 EST

Remove Featured Images From Main Page
I propose to set the Featured Images project on hiatus - that is, to cancel the process of selecting a Featured Image each week and featuring it on the Main Page. I'm well aware that many users like this project, so please consider my arguments before voting: You may wonder what we will do with the new-won space on the Main Page if this proposal passes. Well, I do not propose anything, but there's already a lot of stuff on the Main Page so we don't necessarily have to replace the FI by anything. But of course we can put something different in its place if anyone has a good idea.
 * The project was extremely inactive lately. For example, the last non-maintenance edit on the FI page was three days ago, compared to dozens of edits a day some time ago. The last nominated image was added even 15 days ago, when we had several new images a day some time ago. And currently we have only 4 nominated images, in contrast to 15 or more images some time ago. It simply seems like we're running out of good images to feature which - if we don't do anything about it - will lead to the situation that we have to feature a bad image just because there are no better ones available.
 * The idea of Featured Images is questionable in itself. While it makes sense to feature articles (because they're our own work as a wiki), it makes little sense to feature images which are only the work of Nintendo or other companies, but not of our wiki.

Proposer: Deadline: January 10, 2010, 15:00

Get Rid of It

 * Per the reasons given above.
 * 1) - the images are not our work, so we should not just pic a "good image" and upload it there. It does not compare to featured articles this way. Maybe we could use the gained space to advertise the wiki a bit more, e.g.: what tells us apart from the Mario Wikia or what subjects are still eagerly looking for contributors (like most of the Game Boy games), as new visitors are likely to only scan through the most popular games and find that they are all already done.
 * 2) - I agree with Cobold. I also never really grew accustomed to the FI nomination system in general.
 * 3) - Per all. I always thought it was unnecessary.
 * 4) - Per all. Ever since we had a stolen image featured in it, I thought it was worthless.
 * 5)   YES!   I don't like how the process goes (that is why I stopped editing the FI nominations page for a long time). Before we continue the project, we need a massive reform of the project: although the project is, essentially, full of bias, the state it is in now is horrendous. We have fan votes like "ZOMG DK is in the image so its an instanant vot3 fr0m me!!!!!!!!!!11111111111111" and other stupid pointless votes like that. We need to have a way to clear the detrimental bias from the system as well as get the project more active and able to help the wiki. Also, I extemely agree with Cobold. Perhaps we could create a supplement to the Featured Image project on The 'Shroom. The bias could go into the votes if done like that because The 'Shroom is a community project, not our main hub.
 * 6) Per all.
 * 7) Per all.
 * 8) &mdash; Per Cobold.
 * 9) – Per all, especially Cobold -- while Wikipedia allows such a system of featured images with their own reasons; in what I see, Featured Images is actually different from Featured Articles. While all of us have the opportunity to vote, we have to be aware that an image was distributed by Nintendo, (drawn or created by someone in the company), while an article (composed of official Nintendo info about the series of Mario, Yoshi, Wario, DK and etc), was written by various users that contributed in an attempt to create a very good article. Also, per SMB for suggesting that this type of concept should go into the 'Shroom.

Keep It

 * 1) I think the FIs give the main page a colorful touch. To me, it seems like there are still many great pictures out there that are just waiting to be featured, and as more games are released, so will more great artwork. Without FIs the main page would look too bland for me.
 * 2) - It brings us things that FF65 said above. We can't get rid of it. Why do we need a new image each week? We don't have a new FA every week. We can always reuse some, and that way we won't run low on images, won't use bad ones, and we always see some of our favorite images each week. Other wikia's do this, and why not, we do that with FA's...
 * 3) Per Fawfulfury.
 * 4) Unlike what SMB said, I haven't seen a lot of fan votes compared to featured articles. Ok then, to my point, removing the FI would make our wiki main page text, text, one image from the news, one image from featured article, hmmm, oh yeah, more text! Per Fawful's Fury sixty-five and the Baby Mario/Blooper hybrid.
 * 5) I am Zero! There is still a lot of good images to nominate even if there screenshots. And like FawfulFury65 said it gives a colorful look to the main page ever since the polls were removed. Zero signing out.
 * 6) I don't like this idea. I think there is still a good amount of images not unearthed in the wiki. Besides, there might be great and newer images in the future when more games come out. Besides, the closest thing to a fan vote I've seen was on that hideous Yoshi group picture (the white background). A lot of people voted on that "just because Yoshi is in." Otherwise, the votes are not so bad compared to some of the Featured Articles' ones. And I don't like those ideas to replace the Featured Image spot :P. Per all.
 * 7) After polls were removed this has been the most entertaining part of the page other than the FA, and the wiki is full of great images ready to be featured, and the voters an commenters are just being lasy, and if they just start nominating and voting the section should be back up and running also there haven't been many fan votes other than the yoshi group pic.
 * 8) Lu-igi board per all. more games will be released meaning more great pictures. plus, there are still hidden gems somewhere on the wiki.
 * 9) - The FI's give the MP a colorful touch, they make it worth looking at. If we run out of noms, we can cycle them, like FA's. That will leave a hole in the MP. If you want, I, personally, will take Ccare of the nom page.
 * 10) PEr all. We all know that when SMG2 comes out, there's going to be a huge load of images uploaded, and most(or at least some) will look very good on the main page. And like everyone else said, what's going to replace that huge chunk of grey space on the front?
 * 11) Per all. There was a proposal on this before. It failed. and like Gamefreak75 said, once SMG2 there will be new nominations coming out the ying-yang! And also like BabyLuigiOnFire said, the main page would just be text... text... text (other than the picture on the News Template). So yeah. On with Featured Images! P.S. There is hardly any fan votes compared to FAs. (Except maybe the Yoshi one)
 * 12) Per all, I like the FI-section and the idea behind it. I don't know, but perhaps the low activity lately was due to the holidays and maybe when new games (such as SMG2) are released, it will get more active.
 * 13) – Per Tucky.
 * 14) - NO The FIs are a thing that people can easily understand. While it takes a small degree of knowledge and diligence (not to mention comprehension) to read an article, it takes almost nothing to look at a picture. So much easier to look at a picture, so much happier to look at a picture, so much better to look at a picture. Plus, if you think Images can't be professional then look at wikipedia's front page. Oh ya, and per tucky.

Comments
What will happen to the currently nominated images? Will we continue to vote on them and not allow any more images to be nominated, or just yank the project effective immediately? -
 * I was thinking to yank it immediately (before this proposal passes, or if it does, however, we will regularly feature one more image on Thursday).

@Fawfulfury65: The Featured Images haven't been there for that long, and the Main Page worked great before we had them. As you can see, almost no new images were nominated lately, so this will likely lead to a bad image on the Main Page if we continue the project. However, if it turns out that there are really lots of more images that should be featured, we could bring the project back. It's not like it's lost forever if this proposal passes.

In order to vote, I need to see how will the Main Page will look after we remove this.

We can make it so that there is a new FI every month so we don't run out of FIs too fast... That's all I can think of, but I really don't want to put the FI system on hiatus because its the only thing I usually enjoy on the Main Page. How long will it be gone anyway?
 * I can already see people complain how boring it is to have the image changed only once in a month. This would probably prevent bad images from being featured, but we should better get rid of it completely.

THis is ironcial, we take polls because they are way too active, and now you want to take this because it is not very active. In FA's, the same articles are used again and again, we could do the same.

Although I do agree that the voting system is weird, I think the idea of Featured Images is still good, and hope that we can come up with a better way to make this work and bring it back, if it does go to hiatus. I also agree with Tucayo's second comment, about circulating featured images on the main page. @TimeQ's proposal: Even if featured images may not be our "own work", great images, be they artwork or screenshots, serve as a very good appeal to the Mario series itself.


 * I agree with the above comment. The games aren't our work either, we simply take them from other resources or just by playing the games and implement them into an article. The images are part of the Mario series, we are a Mario wiki, so I think that it would make our wiki look nicer and more visually appealing.


 * I'm not a Baby Mario/Blooper hybrid (sigh). Anyways, every featured FA has more than enough images. Getting rid of FI's is like taking away images off a page. All would be text, and we would see no color, no interesting things to point us out. That would be the main page if we got rid of it. Also, do we play Mario games with lots of images? I don't think we play it like we read a novel.


 * As I already said, we have had the Featured Images only since last April, which means the Main Page existed for years without them and worked perfectly. I understand that you can't imagine it since you probably joined after we started the FIs, but it's true. And no, you cannot compare it to taking away images off a page at all.


 * We don't feature games, we feature articles, that's a different thing. But we do feature images which is kind of strange considering we were not involved at all in their creation.

Here's a concept, we keep all the archived images and the current FI, and start playing them again, starting with the first one and continuing until the current image resurfaces, at which point the cycle repeats itself. I know this disagrees with the second part of the proposal, but I think it could work. Any objections?
 * While this would be better than continuing the project like it is, I think it would still be boring to just repeat the same images. Why not put something completely different on the Main Page in place of the FIs? Of course, we can still keep the archive of already featured images, so they won't be lost.

Time Q: We are dismantling the Main Page slowly. The QOTD, the Affiliates thing (well, that was Steve), the Calendar.... This would leave a huge gap in the MP, and unless I am shown how will it be accomodated, I would have to oppose.
 * You're right in that it would leave a gap on the Main Page, so we have to find a solution. Either we move some of the other templates or we find something we can replace the FIs for. Does anyone have an idea?

I checked the FI archive and there are 38 images. By the time every picture gets shown again, the majority of the year will have past and the earlier images may not seem stale at all when the cycle restarts.
 * Maybe, but please see my second argument.

Time Q: I don't find your argument saying that "the wiki worked just fine without FI's" justified. Just because something is functional enough to supply one's needs does not mean improvement would hurt (Remember, the Main Page looked like This for years and worked just as fine too). I'm not against removing FI's(for now), because I'm thinking the Featured Images page will only be put on indefinite hiatus, not deletion, I hope? I also agree with Tucayo that even if the proposal passes, we should think of something to put in its place before taking out that big chunk. (Although, if I must say my opinion, coming up with new things and then abandoning them too often in that section [e.g. polls, FI] makes the wiki seem like it isn't commited to its plans, which in a way shows unproffesionalism) --
 * Yes, it would only be put on indefinite hiatus.

A few things, one, I been a user since May, but I was a guest since two years ago. Two, we improve our main page, and it has gotten way better than before FI's thanks to them. Three, we have now a few new nominations, and they are still coming, so we aren't running out. Four, I didn't like FI's at first, but now they are a very important part of the Mario Wiki! Fifth, use my prior reason, reuse FI's like FA's. That is all...
 * Regarding your first point: Okay then. Second: Well, what do you say about my second argument that the notion of FIs is questionable then? Third: It's obvious that the reason for new images being nominated is this proposal. Before I made it, there have not been any new nominations for days. Fourth: They're nothing we couldn't get rid of. Fifth: Under which circumstances should we reuse the images in your opinion?

That's what I said Tucayo! Reuse, try going green with FI's, lol...

I find that none of the opposers has an argument against the statement that featured images are questionable, as they are not our own work. You seem to be only referring to the nomination system. -
 * That's right...

Okay, two comments. First, as stated above, I admit that we can't get rid of the FI template on the Main Page without doing any further changes, that is either to re-arrange the other templates or to put something else in the FI's place. Does anyone have an idea what we can do here? Second, it's obvious that the quality of the nominated images is getting lower and lower, so if we decide to keep the FIs, then in order to prevent bad images from being featured we should reuse older pictures. Under which circumstances should we do so? My suggestion would be to feature a new image only if it is has 10 or more "positive votes" (with positive votes, I mean the number of support votes minus the number of oppose votes).

Yes, we should reuse old pics until SMG2 comes out, because when it does the wiki will be flooded with excellent pics to nominate.

Time Q and Cobold: I will restate this: the images are part of the Mario series and the articles aren't our work either. We just play the game and implement its information into articles. Again, the images are from the Mario series, our site is about the Mario series, therefore, it's ok to feature images regarding to Mario in this series, be it our work or not.
 * "The articles aren't our work either"? oô Are you sure you want to go on with that statement? -
 * Well, technically, this is our work, but the storyline, gameplay and stuff aren't our work.
 * Not just "technically". To make a good article, information has to be collected (often from many different sources), the loose information must be organized, the article concept must be planned, authentic and comprehendible summaries must be written, good images must be found to support the article, sources need to be given, and good templates and categories must be searched and included. Just because we didn't create the sources ourselves doesn't mean our work is less worth, or can be disregarded. -
 * Per Edo. As I stated above, we don't feature the games. We feature something we made about the games (=articles). But on the other hand, we don't feature something we made about the images, but the images themselves. This is questionable.

Time Q: They are just to have something different from the articles, proposals, etc. To give a nice look to the Main Page, something colorful, something that is actually seen.

Time Q: How do you know the reason new nominations are being set up is this proposal? People could've just found new images. And also: I don't care if the images aren't our "own work". They're the only thing I ever usually look at other than the proposals, and they are a very important part of the main page. If we delete this then what will we delete next? News? (Note: I said that because like Tucayo said, there has been a lot of deletions on the main page.)

Time Q: It will create a big hole in the main page if you remove the FI. We can reuse images like articles in the FA. And besides when SMG2 comes out, there will be dozens of pictures flooding the FI.

"Time Q: They are just to have something different from the articles, proposals, etc. To give a nice look to the Main Page, something colorful, something that is actually seen."

- User:Tucayo


 * We have images from the Featured Article template and the News template. Having another image that is on the Main Page because a ton of biased noobs voted for the characters instead of actual quality is not good. Let's have it on The 'Shroom, where bias can actually go.

"Time Q: How do you know the reason new nominations are being set up is this proposal? People could've just found new images. And also: I don't care if the images aren't our "own work". They're the only thing I ever usually look at other than the proposals, and they are a very important part of the main page. If we delete this then what will we delete next? News? (Note: I said that because like Tucayo said, there has been a lot of deletions on the main page.)"

- User:Lemmy Koopa Fan


 * Well, it's a good thing that nominations are being set up because of the proposal, but what about when the proposal is archived? It will most likely go baqck into a state of inactivity until another proposal is made.
 * I know you may not care about the images not being "our own work", but others do, making that comment just utterly stupid. I don't care if you look at the Featured Images page the most, the system isn't working and it needs to be put on hiatus and a better system developed.
 * Also, that deletions from the Main Page comment is ridiculous. We made those adjustments because the time the page to load the page was insanely slow (Quote of the Day), it served no purpose after the awards (Tourney Template), it served no purpose whatsoever (WikiNews template), or the system of selecting what went into the template was overly biased (Polls). We want to put FIs on hiatus so we can fix the problems before it becomes irreversable and then we have to completely cancel the project (like what happened to the polls). 15:27, 9 January 2010 (EST)


 * "Having another image that is on the Main Page because a ton of biased noobs voted for the characters instead of actual quality is not good." Actually, there is no bias on the nomination of images when compared to Featured Articles (hint:when compared to). You should check for yourself, the majority of votes are placed because of the image itself.

"Let's see how this turns out..."

- User:Timmy Tim

"Though I agree with Time Q that it's a low quality picture (when enlarged), I really like it so I support this one :)"

- User:Karinmij

"Yay, Mini-DK is blind!"

- User:Vini64

"If you look real closely, you'll see that Mario needs to shave. (Just a little)"

- User:S.M.Sfreak

"I don't know why but I really like this picture. And it is big!"

- User:Fawfulfury65

"I am Zero! Well even though the skis are blurred, DK looks weird with his teeth, and Mario's sideburns are a lighter shade of color, I still like this picture. Zero signing out."

- User:Zero777

"This is why we have featured images!"

- User:GalacticPetey

"Poor Luigi XD."

- User:Lemmy Koopa Fan

"Ha! it has a humorus plot to it. Poor Luigi takes the cuts and bruises while Mario escapes unharmed. Well Luigi is more clumsy...."

- User:lpsc00l

"No background, yuck :P"

- User:Marioguy1

"The image at full size looks good but I don't think it should be featured."

- User:tonym101101

"luigi+ball=epic fail"

- User:baby dk

"Ja."

- User:Platitudinous

"I am Zero! This was already nominated twice and it was put down. Zero signing out."

- User:Zero777

"I don't like that wallpaper and... MARIO PARTY 7 F****NG SUCKS!!!"

- User:Vini64

"terrible."

- User:Lu-igi board

"It's boxart!!! if you want boxart up then you might as well put up a picture of the box"

- User:Pixlfreak

"Ermmmmm... I am on support list so... i have to say I love that galaxy!"

- User:LuigiMadness71

"OHMYGOSHI'MGONNADIE... oh, it's an awesome picture."

- User:Platitudinous

"Oh my, a floating house. How interesting!(sarcasm)"

- User:Fawfulfury65

"I nominated this once"

- User:Lu-igi board

"It looks like they're all saying "Holy shmoly!""

- User:Lemmy Koopa Fan

"I will nominate only for Wario's face. LOL!"

- User:Lu-igi board

"I am Zero! The reason why I didn't nominate this when I nominated two or three MP pictures at the same time is that DK looks like an orangutan. Zero signing out."

- User:Zero777


 * As you can see, I have found many votes that are not good. Most of them (but not all):


 * Are fan votes.
 * Do not make sense.
 * Are not well-detailed.
 * Are just pointless.
 * I was actually tempted to put a lot more, but I decided to take the most obvious ones into this list. We need to set a standard for voting, as Featured Images will never be completely unbiased. However, we need to outlaw votes that fall under categories such as those that I listed. 17:29, 9 January 2010 (EST)
 * Although I don't think you should have called out those users by adding their names to the quotes(The quote by itself would have gotten the message across), FIs, unlike featured articles, do not have specific guidelines. All they say is "those quality, intriguing, witty, provocative, rare, important, and otherwise simply interesting images that can be found throughout the site's articles." If a user had put, "This image is simply interesting" as their reason for support, it would follow exactly the guidelines. Whether something is interesting or not is the User's opinion, and the whole purpose for the voting system is to see if there are a majority of people who think it's a good image vs. don't think it's a good image. The reasons following the votes, in my opinion, hardly matter in the entirety of the process. --

Per GM -

Use "" for quotes - it takes up less space and makes the discussion look neater. Old-fashioned quotation marks (with or without italicized or bolded text) work fine for the smaller quotes, like in Garlic Man's latest comment. I just think using is a bit excessive. -

Birdo's Sex Revisited
It's a long proposal, but please read it before voting. No "tl;dr"'s please. T_T

Way back when, we had a proposal to refer to Birdo as female in all situations. The result was a 15-1-0 blowout in favor of "She". One argument that many agreed on was that calling transsexuals "it" is offensive to transsexual people. But if we dwell into the depths of English grammar, we find that animals should be refered to as "it", rather than he or she. However, this argument may also be argued back with the fact that Birdo is an anthropomorphic character, which may have different guidelines regarding pronouns. But also, Birdo is refered to both as female in some games and male in other games. In this proposal, we're trying to determine whether Birdo is acatually female or not. Brido dresses like, speaks like(minus the low voice), and attempts to act like a "Girl", but is Birdo really "Female"? Gender may refer to what the person wants to be, establishes themselves to be, and what other people perceive them to be, but Sex is the actual bodily organization of the organism. Remember, Birdo is an animal, not a person. Birdo may be a girl on the outside, but what is she actually on the inside? This proposal prosposes that Birdo should be refered to as "it" in all situations. The thing is, some sources say Birdo is female while others say Birdo is male. Some argue that it's male in Japan and female everywhere else. I don't believe we should discriminate between countries on this. Each source is an individual element, and nationality should be disregarded. Basically, there's no difinitive evidence proving which sex Birdo truly is. Some sources say this, others say that. And they're both as official as the other. Nintendo appears to contradict with itself and thus Birdo's sex is unknown. Although some American sources say female, and this is an American wiki, other sources from other countries say otherwise. We should judge this situation based on the entire world, not just one language, and so Birdo should be called "it".

Proposer: Deadline: 17 January, 2010, 20:00

For lack of evidence, refer to Birdo as "it" for the moment

 * 1) -- Per proposal.

Assume that Birdo is Female without conclusive evidence

 * 1) -- You are right by saying some American sources refer to Birdo as she and I think since this is an American wiki that we should go by our American sources, not by other country's sources. Also, most of the info just stated about Birdo's sex should be put in the gender section on her page.
 * 2) - Before I get to the actual point: Birdo is an animal as much as Mario is. She's a sapient being, and therefore qualifies as a person. Everything else would be just an elitist glorification of humankind. As for the actual question: We need to make a diversion here. A diversion between gender (mentally) and sex (bodily). We know Birdo's gender to 100%: It's female, in every version (because she identifies as such). Her sex on the other side remains unclear up to this point. However, Though the body is a part of oneself, the decisions an individual makes is what forms a character. A transgender is what he/she decides to be, nothing more, nothing less. Therefore, the character Birdo is female, and should be refered as such.
 * 3) - Edo already stated much of what I would have, and I applaud this wiki for its understanding of the subject. The Birdo article already works well as it is, so switching over wouldn't benefit it in any way.
 * 4) per the Edo.
 * 5) - Per Edo. In any case, "it" would not be a solution for adressing someone whose gender you don't know, and referring to a male-to-female transgender person as "he" is discriminatory. It's fine the way it is.

Comments
We also can't ignore her voice in Mario Tennis (N64). Just sayin'.


 * I think she's a girl, because in Super Mario Advance, I think, when the character encounters her she says some sat=ying of some sort with a feminine voice rather than a masculine one. And aren't there different colors of Birdos as their are of Yoshis? Like in Yoshi's Story when choosing which Yoshi to be, the pink has the pink (or was it white) Yoshi has the most feminine voice while the Black Yoshi has the most masculine. At this point, I neither support or oppose.

Miscellaneous
None at the moment.