Talk:King Boo

Umm, maybe it's just me, but I'm pretty sure that the "Bowser" King Boo was using was a mock Bowser and not an animated corpse.Rueben
 * According to Madame Clairvoya, Bowser has been dead and is shocked that he has somehow returned, suspecting King Boo had some part of his resurection. Here are her final words: "Bowser? how can this be? I see the Hideous form of BOWSER?! I don't believe it, yet I see it. Could King Boo have found some way to revive Bowser?" It is most probable that "Bowser" is actually the Bowser, only dead and being manipulated by King Boo. Son of Suns 00:30, 21 July 2006 (EDT)

I had forgotten about that, but yeah, I kinda remember sommat like that, now that you mention it... *Feels Dumb* ;) (Talk about altenate universes. Bowser couldn't possibly have done as much as he's done if Mario actually killed him... Unless... Maybe Madame Clairvoya died during the events of the "New Super Mario". That would explain why she thinks Bowser is dead. She's working off old Information. ;) Yeah, I know I'm stretching but hey, it could work like that. hehehe)Rueben
 * Possibly, but it is likely that Bowser simply died after Paper Mario and was revived before the events of Super Mario Sunshine. By who? Unknown, but probably his son Bowser Jr. (as he revived Bowser later in New Super Mario Bros.). --Son of Suns 01:30, 21 July 2006 (EDT)

From Wikipedia:

Due to the fact that, in the game, Madame Clairvoya claims that Bowser has been 'soundly defeated' by Mario, many believe that Luigi's Mansion is set after all the other Mario games, even those yet to be released; whether or not this is true has not been confirmed. However, even death cannot stop the Koopa King. In New Super Mario Bros., Bowser dies (falls in lava and loses his skin in the process) and becomes an undead monster, only to be revived later in the game. If Bowser really did die before Luigi's Mansion, he may have been revived after the game, but many people deny this and say that after King Boo is defeated, Bowser will gain control over his body again. Either way, this means Luigi's Mansion is not necesarilly the last game chronologically, as Bowser can just be revived over and over again. There is a possibility that King Boo had possesed a still living Bowser.

Another reason for people believing that Luigi's Mansion is set after other Mario games is that King Boo says, "perhaps it is merely because I remember how much trouble you've caused me in the past...", when this is the first game King Boo has appeared in order of release. However, King Boo may have been referring to all the trouble Mario and Luigi have caused to his species; some also choose to believe that this is proof that King Boo and Big Boo are the same being. Luigi was also King Boo's captive in Super Mario 64 DS (which may be the events of the Nintendo 64 game as they 'really' happened). H K

From the discussion on Bowser:

Didn't Nintendo origanally say Koopa/Bowser died in paper Mario, but no one believed them, so they gave King Boo that Koopa/Bowser suit to prove it? And then they changed thier minds? HK


 * I don't know if Nintendo officially stated Bowser died, but I don't think they would kill of their biggest villain. In Luigi's Mansion, Madame Clairvoya states Bowser has been "soundly defeated". Many consider this to mean Bowser died, but this could mean the Bowser was just beat up so much he couldn't fight for a while. Thus the suit at the end could be Bowser's corpse or a robotic (or magical) suit. But, Bowser did die in the New Super Mario Bros. and became an undead monster. However, he was just revived to his normal self. That means if Bowser died before Luigi's Mansion, he could have been simply revived. --Son of Suns 12:30, 28 June 2006 (EDT)

Yes, I havent beat sunshine, but maybe something there says he was revived by JR before that, too? HK
 * No. There is no mention of resurection in the entire game. It's just implied if you believe Bowser died before Luigi's Mansion. Like I said, Bowser could be in hiding, so weak after the battle in Paper Mario that he had to take a break and send both King Boo and his son to do his dirty work for him. Also, Luigi's Mansion cannot be the last game chronologically. This is because Professor E. Gadd invents the Poltergust 3000 in this game, but invents the Super Poltergust 3001 in Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga, and the Poltergust 4000 in Mario Kart DS. If Luigi's Mansion was last chronologically, then the Poltergust Luigi uses would have to have a higher model number than previous Poltergust models. --Son of Suns 15:05, 28 June 2006 (EDT)

Hmmm... I have no idea what to think now! I also wonder if Paper mario takes place in some alternate paper world, and that none of its events have any bearing on the real life, and Clairavoya was reffering to Mario 64...... HK


 * How do you know Clairvoya was referring to Super Mario 64? Also, Paper Mario probably exists in the same realm as the other games; the Paper Mario series just have certain stylistic choices, like all Mario games. --Son of Suns 19:41, 28 June 2006 (EDT)


 * Actually, I am only making theories. I'm just thinking! Making sense of this whole timeline....HK

Guys... it's just a game. Anything the developers want can happen. --DarkInsanity (talk)


 * I know. But I find it fun to try to make sense of the nonsensical Marioverse. =) --Son of Suns 09:23, 29 June 2006 (EDT)


 * That was well put Son Of Suns. Very well put. HK

On second examination, it seems Bowser did die before Luigi's Mansion. In the game, Madame Clairvoya says: "Bowser? how can this be? I see the Hideous form of BOWSER?! I don't believe it, yet I see it. Could King Boo have found some way to revive Bowser?" This mean Bowser died in between Paper Mario and Luigi's Mansion. Also, this means that King Boo is most likely using Bowser's corpse as a weapon during the final fight with Luigi. However, Bowser was truly revived somewhere in between Luigi's Mansion and Super Mario Sunshine. --Son of Suns 15:58, 29 June 2006 (EDT)

Seems Nintendo has a lot more plot holes than people thought. I only ever noticed the twins/mario is older hole before. I've started examining the series more closely, and I've started to question the plotline. HK


 * I think it's a suit for two reasons:

Of course, looking at them now, my second argument, involving bifurcation (I think that's the word) in an edutainment game, sheds some doubt on my first argument. But either way, I'm not sure, and these theories are really intriguing. CrossEyed7 15:08, 6 August 2006 (EDT)
 * It doesn't seem very much like Nintendo to have decapitation beyond Yoshi eating a Pokey.
 * At the end of Mario is Missing, I vividly remember Bowser being launched out of a cannon into the tundra, and his body freezing and breaking in half. Either Bowser actually died or it was an early prototype of the Bowser suit.

Robot
I beleive that King Boo simply got Bowser or someone else to make a bowser suit for him just to confuse us. --PeteyPiranhaLover 15:54, 3 August 2006 (EDT)

Dancing on the line... H K

Dancing on the line. . . ? Huh?

Anyway, some articles on the Wiki say that it's a bot, others say Bowser really died. Shouldn't we come up with one theory and put it on every article? Waluigi Freak 99 18:01, 28 August 2006 (EDT)

I always thought that the Bowser in this game was a robot because A)There's no blood, B)It's distinctly robotic-looking, and most importantly, C)Madame Clairvoya says Bowser was DEFEATED, not killed. Monty Mole 18:06, 28 August 2006 (EDT)

True, there's no blood, but many Mario characters have died without blood. I do think it's a robot. Waluigi Freak 99 18:31, 28 August 2006 (EDT)

The most logical theory is that King Boo is using Bowser himself. First, like Waluigi Freak said, just because there is no blood during the battle, doesn't mean it's a robot. There has never been blood in a Mario game, despite the fact that Mario himself has been stabbed multiple times. In the game, Luigi even could get smashed by a Trapdoor, but instead of having his internal organs crushed with blood spewing everywhere, Luigi is flattened in a cartoon-like fashion. This means that Bowser could be a real body even without blood. Secondly, if Bowser really was a robot, it would be the most life-like robot in a Mario game. All the other Mecha Bowsers have been clearly mechanical. This Bowser seems alive and moves in a fluid motion. If anything, it could be a magical apparition, but certainly not a mechanical robot. However, Madame Clairvoya says that Bowser was soundly defeated at the hands of Mario. Later, when she sees Bowser in a vision, she freaks out and ponders how King Boo could have revived Bowser. This means, at the very least, that Bowser did die before the events of Luigi's Mansion, otherwise, he wouldn't need to be revived (and Madame Clairvoya wouldn't freak out at his return; Bowser returns everytime, but has never returned from the dead prior to this game). This also implies, but does not prove, that the Bowser body in the game is a revived Bowser. This is the best answer from the game itself. However, we do have another mystery at hand. After Luigi captures King Boo and returns him the Portraitficationizer (or whatever it's called), not only do we see the spirit of King Boo, we also see the spirit of Bowser right next to him. This indicates that a spirit form of Bowser may have aided King Boo, and was captured when King Boo was. -- Son of Suns

The Hard Truth
I've finally asked Nintendo(NOA) about this controversial topic. First you have to narrow the facts down. Nintendo claims that it was in fact a suit. Second the Mario Rpg Series, Sport Series, Donkey Kong Series and Mario Party Series(including Mario is Missing) does not tie into the plot in any way.These games were made from foreign developing companies.So are the Shows, Movie, and comics(Nintendo Power is also considered a foreign company) Only the Mario Platformers, Mario Sidescrollers, Mario Kart Series,Yoshi Series, and Luigi's Mansion are pure Nintendo products. They wouldn't tell me any more. Nintendo said use your imagination and think because there is definately a straight plot.

Sigh . ..
Actually, there has been blood. In Super Mario Bros. 2, when Wart died, there was red liquid forming around his eyes in the background. Just felt like pointing that out.

Anyway, we know that Bowser died. But we know that King Boo used a robotic suit. It's possible that King Boo actually IS Bowser. But of course, that's unlikely, because both Bowser and King Boo were both in Super Mario Sunshine, and were clearly separate characters. So that theory's out the window.

While we try to figure out exactly what happened, let's change every article and say that it is unclear what happened. This article says Bowser died, the Bowser article says it was a suit, and I'm sure there's some more in this Wiki that say something else. Waluigi Freak 99 18:06, 29 August 2006 (EDT)

Well, it could be that Bowser died in NSMB and was revived by Bowser Jr, but was still weak, so Bowser Jr made a Bowser suit for King Boo to use. --User:Superchao

I think that NSMB happened after Luigi's Mansion. If Bowser ever died, it was in Paper Mario. What I believe is that King Boo wanted to use Bowser's body, but Bowser's spirit wouldn't let him, so King Boo used a Bowser suit. Apparently, after King Boo was defeated by Luigi, Bowser and King Boo formed a truce and King Boo revived Bowser. King Boo then went on to serve as one of Bowser's minions.

That's what I think, anyway.

Waluigi Freak 99 18:56, 29 August 2006 (EDT)

Well, Bowser lived after Paper Mario. It could be that Madame Clarovoyia was speaking in riddles, and meant that Bowser had somehow returned after beating beaten, and that's where the suit came from.--User:Superchao

Okay. . . perhaps Bowser died in between Paper Mario and Luigi's Mansion. I don't thinK Madame Clarovoyia was speaking in riddles.

By the way, Superchao, you should start signing your comments. I tire of having to do it for you. Waluigi Freak 99 19:01, 29 August 2006 (EDT)

Sorry. Plus, Bowser probably survived, and Clarovoyia was talking about his recovery, or she didn't know it was a suit. Superchao 19:03, 29 August 2006 (EDT)

Maybe Madame Clairvoya was just mistaken about the "revive" comment? That would mean it really is a suit.Monty Mole 19:20, 29 August 2006 (EDT)

So what we've got is: Bowser was defeated in Paper Mario. Madame Clarovoyia thought he was dead, but he lived. Bowser went to Luigi's Mansion for some reason, probably because Mario went there, and most likely witnessed King Boo turn Mario into a painting. King Boo saw Bowser and constructed a robotic version of Bowser. Madame Clarovoyia sees the robot Bowser and thinks that Bowser has been revived.

That pretty much sums up what we've decided on so far. It seems like the most likely explanation. Waluigi Freak 99 19:31, 29 August 2006 (EDT)

Still, we'll never know for 100% sure. Monty Mole 19:33, 29 August 2006 (EDT)


 * You can't just assume Madame Clairvoya was mistaken. She is the best source we have. Bowser died sometime between Paper Mario and Luigi's Mansion, according to the ghost psychic. Later, Bowser appeared in a spirit form at the end of the game, along with King Boo. As indicated by both the game and the Player's Guide, the Bowser battle body could very well be Bowser, but is at the very least a very convincing disguise. There is no evidence to suggest that King Boo and Bowser met at Luigi's Mansion then King Boo made a robotic suit. Like I said before, the suit is probably not robotic, but magical (if it's not Bowser's actual body).


 * To recap: Bowser did die between Paper Mario and Luigi's Mansion at the hands of Mario. Bowser's spirit appears at the end of Luigi's Mansion with King Boo, and is trapped inside a painting with him. The battle body may be Bowser's actual body, but at the very least it is a very convincing Bowser disguise.


 * We should put that info in the King Boo and Bowser articles for that's all that we know for sure. -- Son of Suns


 * We can't, because it's just a theory. How do we know Bowser died or if PM is right before LM?

Here are the facts:

1)According to Madame Clairvoya, Bowser died before the events of Luigi's Mansion, as he wouldn't need to be revived if he was not dead. 2)Bowser's spirit appears at the end of the game along side King Boo, and both are trapped in the painting. 3)Based on Madame Clairvoya's statements, it can be inferred that the Bowser battle body is Bowser himself, but at the very least it is a very convincing Bowser disguise (we don't know if it is a robot; disguise is the best word to use because it encompasses a broad range of objects). -- Son of Suns

It is possible that the Madame meant how he could have been recovering. It may not be Bowser's spirit, but whatever magic was powering the suit. Maybe Bowser used a bit of his own spirit. The suit is revealed to be a suit, because when the head is removed, it has a robotic interior. At least say it is only a theory.


 * I don't think Madame Clairvoya would express shock if Bowser recovered from injuries (he does so after every game and keeps coming back). However, coming back from death is quite a shock. Also, why would King Boo need to revive Bowser if he is simply recovering from injuries. Madame Clairvoya says that Bowser has been "soundly defeated", meaning he would never come back (by any natural means). It would make sense that the Bowser spirit is a spirit, as the machine is designed to turn ghosts into paintings (and it would support Clairvoya's claims that Bowser is dead). And I don't remeber the suit having a robotic interior; in fact, I think all you can see is black. -- Son of Suns


 * Well, how are we to know? Maybe Bowser was still alive, but so badly injured, he needed help, so King Boo controled his body while Bowser recoved, and that is why he was caught and later, when he was stronger, he broke free of the painting and took back his body. Superchao 16:30, 30 August 2006 (EDT)

Let's try including this information in the articles:

1) Bowser was "soundly defeated" by Mario some time before the events of Luigi's Mansion and may have been "revived" by King Boo (as stated by Madame Clairvoya). 2) The Bowser fought at the end of the game may be the actual Bowser, but it is at the very least a very convincing Bowser disguise (as stated by the official Player's Guide). 3) A transparent essence that resembles a spirit form of Bowser appears at the end of the game, and is trapped inside the painting with King Boo.

Does that work, given what we know to be true? -- Son of Suns
 * Using the sources, that sounds good. Do it, as this is becoming a lengthy conversation. Wayoshi ( T&middot;C&middot;@ ) 21:34, 30 August 2006 (EDT)

Articles Changed
I've changed both the King Boo and Bowser articles to display the information we've agreed on in this article. I'm actually now leaning towards the possibility that King Boo possessed Bowser's corpse, and that Bowser was revived before Super Mario Sunshine (probably by Bowser Jr.). Waluigi Freak 99 14:04, 2 September 2006 (EDT)


 * I changed your edits as well. I replaced "robot" with "disguise". We don't know if it's a robot or not. -- Son of Suns


 * Okay, because it could either be a dead Bowser who was revived, a Bowser who was weak enough for King Boo to possess, or a disguise infused with a tiny bit of Bowser's spirit. Superchao 15:12, 2 September 2006 (EDT)


 * Thanks, Son of Suns. Didn't catch that.Waluigi Freak 99 13:18, 3 September 2006 (EDT)