Talk:Mario & Luigi: Dream Team/Archive 1

Those villager people, are they those things from M&L:SS?
The Hoohooligans, they look a lot like those wooden cave people. What do you think? GamerGuy09 (talk) 17:25, 14 February 2013 (EST)

Could be. Kingfawful4321 (talk) 17:35, 14 February 2013 (EST)

Hold it people. Do we even know if Alpha Dream is returning?
I've only seen one news source assume that they are, but primary / direct sources don't suggest this yet as far as I can tell. 144.80.59.7 17:54, 15 February 2013 (EST)

You have a point. Kingfawful4321 (talk) 19:57, 15 February 2013 (EST)

On Nintendo.com's page it says perfectly the developer is Alpha Dream. --Mariobro101 (talk) 09:07, 1 July 2013 (EDT)

Gridlocked Movement
"instead of the locked grid movement from past games"? None of the 3 released Mario & Luigi games used grid based movement. I have no idea where this assertion as come from... SirPrimalform (talk) 17:55, 17 February 2013 (EST)
 * Removed.

Origin
This game is probably based in a project made by Alpha Dream in jul 2012. You can see the proof here: http://www.reinodocogumelo.com/2012/07/alpha-dream-de-mario-luigi-registra.html.

Release
I heard from the guy at the local game store that a release date has been confirmed, but I forget when...or if it's even true. I believe the release date that he stated was in June...that's all I remember. Again, whether or not it's even correct, I dunno. -Pink_Boozooka

Coins
"The battles seem to give out coins, similar to the paper Mario series". All the games in the Mario & Luigi series so far give out coins for battles. RPG Gamer. I HAVE RPG!! (talk) 06:23, 3 April 2013 (EDT)

I think they mean in the midst of battle. And it only refers to Paper Mario: Sticker Star, since in battle, enemies give coins for every hit after the killing hit. - Shroobtimetraveller (Talk) 0045 Hours, 7/11/2013 (AEST)

Possible move?
On that picture with the battle, could that "dream block" be similar to the vacuum block except it sucks enemies into Luigi's dream when Luigi's "asleep"? RPG Gamer. I HAVE RPG!! (talk) 14:21, 5 April 2013 (EDT)
 * Perhaps, but it's worth a minor note. 14:31, 5 April 2013 (EDT)

redirect
maybe it is a good idea to add DT as a redirect (mind pit, ss, and bis).


 * Except DT is extremely vague. Other titles can have DT in their name. SS is also an ambiguous abbreviation, since it can mean "Super Sluggers". "Pit" already has an article as the character and the bottomless trap. BIS can work, but again, the full abbreviation is already there. I don't think we need these redirects.
 * 22:59, 14 April 2013 (EDT)

Trivia
Isn't this the first Mario and Luigi game where the European title is different than the US version

Bowser?
Is there a conclusion to Bowser in all of this?


 * I'm not quite sure I get what you're trying to ask.
 * 19:35, 24 April 2013 (EDT)


 * CRode is aking wether or not Bowser has been confirmed to appear in the game, the answer is not yet, but as he has made past appearances in the series i wouldn't doubt that he would appear. - Cubeguy2ver.pnguy(talk)

The item
there are some item that are at mario and luigi dream team demo game is Mushroom, Super Mushroom, nuts, Super nuts, wonder nuts, Syrup, Super syrup, star candy, super star candy, 1-up mushroom, 1-up mushroom +, ghost cookies, refreshing herb, Chocolates, Super Chocolates, and... SECRET BOX. i got the information from planet3ds.de video
 * 13:59, 25 April 2013 (EDT)
 * Can we get the link for this? 21:47, 25 April 2013 (EDT)

What do you think the super star candy will do if the star candy heals 999 HP AND SP, how much more OP CAN YOU GET other than you use it and it gives a level.


 * It isn't called Star candy anymore, but just Candy and also it doesn't fully heal your HP and Sp, instead it just helas a little of both, Super versions heal more of both


 * PrinceKoopaIV (talk) 10:32, 15 July 2013 (EDT)

antasma/release date.
how do i check antasma is the main antogonist? once, it was comfirmed on this page that dream team would be released next winter, why?


 * Antasma is currently unknown, we don't what she looks like, so I'm not sure for that one. As for Winter, it was Winter this year and I read that date from a magazine, but Nintendo Direct confirmed dates.

luiginary attack
if you hit the block with the face of luigi is like a bros. attack block and the content is this : Dream Ball and Constellation of Luigi.... ( just that all i know )
 * 15:39, 29 April 2013 (EDT)

German name of "ユメボー"
I am not an expert on the German language, but I believe that "Alle" means "All". That term only appears in Youtube videos because Mario's Hammer targets multiple enemies. When targeting an enemy made out of purple bricks with the Jump attack, the game displays "Schlummba".
 * "Alle" does mean "all", you're totally right. And yes, I'm German :) --MeincraftManu (talk) 18:16, 1 June 2013 (EDT)

"Piswald-Park"
In a Youtube video (the 6th cited source, I do believe) what appears to be a Pi'llow (after being freed from a Nightmare Chunk) tells Mario, Luigi, Dreambert and Starlow to go to "Piswald-Park". Thing is, it's in German, so I can't understand it! Also, I believe Dream Luigi is called Dream-Luigi, not Dream Luigi (with no dash). RPG Gamer. I HAVE RPG!! (talk) 04:26, 4 May 2013 (EDT)
 * I think you mean the "Pilzwald-Park", which is something like "Mushroom-Forest Park" in English. The source is the 7th and 8th, that video from nintendomination. And yes, I'm German :) --MeincraftManu (talk) 18:18, 1 June 2013 (EDT)

Red Yoshi
Look at the upper-left corner it's obviously him.


 * I'd hate to go bursting some bubbles or breaking some barrels, but that could actually be a Shyguy as they do share the same colour palette, Red Yoshi's with a normal Shyguy that is. - Cubeguy2ver.pnguy(talk)


 * Well I think it's a Red Yoshi because it looks as if it has a tail.

Well, it could be a Shy Guy because it also looks like it has a mask.

It is a Red Yoshi, you can see it on the European Trailer when it shows a overview of Wake Port

There is a red yoshi in the hotel in the same room as yoshi http://www.mariowiki.com/images/7/7c/ShyGuyRed-CSS2-MSS.png Shyman

Reference?
Is the title a reference to the NBA Dream Team or anything called Dream Team ? 08:45, 18 May 2013 (EDT)
 * I think it's just because the key part of the gameplay takes part in Luigi's dream.
 * Yes of course, but it can be a reference too. 13:09, 18 May 2013 (EDT)
 * I think it's more likely that they were going with the gameplay feature rather than a reference.
 * The name is about the gameplay, as in the previous games Mario & Luigi are a team and it is also set in the dream world/reality/dimension. It also is kind of a link to Superstar sagas title and partners in time, continuing the trend of focusing the title on both the .bros as the main heroes. - Cubeguy2ver.pnguy(talk)

I'm probably gonna stop arguing because it's probably not worth it, but even if the name comes from the gameplay and some consistency, it could still be a reference. 17:54, 21 May 2013 (EDT)
 * Nah, just coinicdence, or continuity really, it could be about gameplay im not sure, but it's not really a referance. - Cubeguy2ver.pnguy(talk)

It could be based off of the producers, AlphaDREAM (nudge, nudge, wink, wink).

Cover
Do any of you know when the NA cover will be announced?


 * I don't think that information is publicly available. But if the Japanese box art is out, then the NA one shouldn't be too far off. Maybe we'll have some luck with the June 11 Nintendo Direct.


 * 08:22, 1 June 2013 (EDT)

A couple new areas?
Looking at http://www.mariowiki.com/File:Scenery_Artwork_-_Mario_%26_Luigi_Dream_Team.png ... you can notice what seems to be a tower with Bowser's head on top of it. Could this mean Bowser's Castle is making a return?

What seems to be buildings can be seen too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Y2uLFo8CUPw#t=34s Buildings are also seen in the background here. Is this confirming a city area? Should both these possibly new areas be added in the artcile then? Koopalmier (talk) 16:55, 5 June 2013 (EDT)


 * I think this is actually just background artwork for character profiles, the manual or just for use as a desktop background, i really don't think you'll get any locations from this image. - Cubeguy2ver.pnguy(talk)

Special pillow or wavelengths?
In an article on ONM's latest article on it (I can't supply a link sadly as my internet is running really slow and can't load it's page as theres so much to load.), it is stated that Luigi actually connects to the dream world as his "dream wavelength" is in complete synchronization, which allows him to open portals. If so that means the pillows allow Luigi to fall asleep instantly allowing this synchronization to make a portal between the two worlds. Anyone agree, - Cubeguy(talk)

Brickle
are this guy name is brickle http://www.mariowiki.com/File:Broque_Artwork_-_Mario_%26_Luigi_Dream_Team.png
 * 15:39, 29 April 2013 (EDT)

Special Attacks
Mario and Luigi have slightly different special attacks, on the real world demo Mario has a red shell and skateboard and Luigi has a green shell and a propeller cap. Note that the propeller attack looks like the Mechanic block person's hat

Cactus Monster
Just added the cactus enemy to the enemy list, but I'm not to familiar with editing wiki pages I'm afraid so I didn't know how to add a reference for it, but you can find said monster on the Japanese site.

http://oi39.tinypic.com/dq3ki0.jpg ~Chaoxys

First footage of boss battle against Bowser
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yli68Q4C1q4

New Trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnx2vQMFSXM

Lots of new info in this. New enemies, various items, ect. You can even see Sergeant Guy from BiS near the end, he's commanding a squad of goombas.

~Chaoxys

But the characters of the minute 2:12 are not Private Goomp, Corporal Paraplonk and Sergeant Guy? --Sonic98 (talk) 14:17, 28 June 2013 (EDT)

Yeah, you can see Private Goomp and Corporal Paraplonk there. Not easy to spot them the first time though, with all the Luigis everywhere. ~Whybee

Also, at the end of the Europe video, a Giant Luigi battle against a group of buildings are shown. Also, it is shown that Luigi can use different hammer attacks, as he uppercuts the monster into the air. Info from Dream.

I may also be worth mentioning that it looks like you can equip different kinds of hammers, so unlike other M&L games where you have the same hammer, or get a new one via plot, you will have many to choose from this time and will be able to switch around whenever you want. ~Chaoxys

Also, it appears that the boots and hammers that you equip can give you different attacks in both the real and dream world, as seen when selecting a special attack. Info spewed by Dreamcha

Popple?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5qKHRpnDn4

At the 12 second mark is that Popple running away from wiggler along with Mario and Luigi


 * Yeah that's Popple alright, good to see him back. - Cubeguy2ver.pnguy(talk)
 * He just appears here and there in the game trying to steal stuff, also in Kylie's house a photo of a Shroob could be seen

Returning Characters?
Alot of characters from the previous installments are returning. But does anyone know if there met inside Luigis Dreams?

Now that I think about it, Mario, D Luigi, and Dreambert, and the rescued Pi'llow are the only characters(not including enemies) in the Dream World. And I'm not sure if the thing that activated Drilldigger is an annoyed Pi'llow or something else

Final Boss Leaked? (SPOILERS)
Here is what seems to be the battle against Antasma. I found it in a GameFAQs thread; the topic creator said it was from a video that was made private later. Also (not as good a picture) there is a shot of what looks like a Giant Bowser phase of the battle.-- 22:49, 3 July 2013 (EDT)
 * I'm that guy. I'm not sure it should be added. I mean, we already knew Giant Bowser was in, and Antasma was obviously going to be fought in the game. I really wish I could have taken a snapshot of the actual final boss, but sadly I didn't, so there isn't really anything new to add. Maybe low-quality pictures taken from a source that is now gone aren't taken as a real source either. Koopalmier (talk) 22:54, 3 July 2013 (EDT)
 * Well, I added the Antasma battle screenshot, since there really isn't a screenshot of a battle against him yet. -- 22:58, 3 July 2013 (EDT)
 * Just chucking this out here, but whats to say this isn't the first battle? Just saying. - Cubeguy2ver.pnguy(talk)
 * Could be. -- 12:09, 4 July 2013 (EDT)

Anyone considering superstar saga, cackletta was, like, the 8th boss, maybe this is similar.

Antasma
Now that I think about it, what if those small bats resembling his head isn't Antasma. We never seen him transform into a bat. And since he's a bat-king he could have been the ruler of the those bats.


 * Just wait till the games out, then we'll know, but i doubt it. - Cubeguy2ver.pnguy(talk)

What also bothers me was that Nintendomination had a 160 minutes video but he deleted it. Anyway in case you haven't known, he also uploaded a boss encounter where you fight Antasma in smokey form with peach. But he made dark clones of Mario. Also in the Japanese trailer there are more Luiginary Works; A moon which changes gravity when Starlow turns around a floatie that Luigi is sleeping on, and also a screw that rises a platform which is the same control as the pinwheel

More little things
I noticed a few things in a trailer that I added: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=asxoWiRJTMg Mainly the Drill and gravity Luiginary Works (I didn't know how to add a picture so if anyone else can do so, I'd appreciate it), and I also added Piranha Plants to the enemy list (You can see them in the gravity part of the trailer). ~Chaoxys

What the heck?
Someone want to fix the bottom of the page so it's not blatantly showing final boss images? Jeeze, I came in here looking for a link to an older video and that gets tossed in my face.

RE: 160 Minute Video
@137.147.10.248 Is this the video you are looking for?

--Newzzz
 * It's useless to me now, I already have the game.

Australian title?
So I got an email from EB Games notifying that this game was just released and well...

The email says it's called Mario & Luigi: Dream Team without the "Bros."

The site here says it's called Mario & Luigi: Dream Team Bros..

But the image on the site goes back to just Mario & Luigi: Dream Team.

ozgameshop.com also calls it Mario & Luigi: Dream Team.

So... I'm seriously confused at this point.


 * I just photographed the actual Australian box art here. It looks like to me that the EB Games site has just edited the rating and placed a PG over the North American box.


 * 02:04, 13 July 2013 (EDT)


 * Ah, okay, thanks. Though I still don't understand why the email and ozgameshop still claim the title to not have "Bros." in it.

that doesnt make sense it should be Mario & Luigi: Dream Bros http://www.mariowiki.com/images/7/7c/ShyGuyRed-CSS2-MSS.png Shyman

"Antowser?"
It says on the article that the final boss is called Antowser, but the reference only gives me a tiny thumbnail of a large, powerful Bowser, but this doesn't confirm the official name of the boss. When was the name confirmed to be Antowser? -- 23:43, 13 July 2013 (EDT)

Luiginary Work and others
I'm from Australia and I have gotten the game. There's another Luiginary Work where Luigi goes in a clock. Pulling his moustache to the right makes everything go fast, and pulling the moustache to the left makes everything go slow, and pressing the nose makes time back to normal. Anyway after going to the Dream Stone Bowser and Antasma had gotten it first and flies off, Dreambert finds out that the stand where the Dream Stone was is a Dreampoint, where he turns to his pillow form so Luigi can sleep on it. Mario goes into the Dream World to find the spirit of the Dream Stone (Which become Drilldigger) After that he tells them that the Dream Stone is at Mt .Pajamaja. So when the bros go back to Mushrise Park, a Shelltop says that tours for Mt. P will be at Wakeport.

I live in Europe and I've nearly completed the game so if you need any information just ask! Also one of the bosses is (SPOILER) BOWSER'S RIGHT HAND TRIO AKA PRIVATE GOOMP, CORPORAL PARAPLONK AND SERGEANT GUY AND THEY'RE ONE OF MY FAVORITE BOSSES EVER! They can revive each other so you have to take them out all at once and it's in the dream world so it's really manic and fun! They're the 6th boss out of the total 9 (Unless you count some of the smaller battles like dreamy mario and wiggler and popple) and there are 6 giant bosses! :) -Guest

Possible Fawful cameo
Mkay, I don't have the game yet, so someone who does have it can check this out I guess. From what I've been hearing, somewhere near the start of the game you can talk to some NPCs in a castle who will face you when you talk to them. From what I've been hearing, there is one NPC in a dressing room who won't face you, and seems to say something that is making people think it's Fawful. Again, I don't have the game so I don't know what he says and I can't check it myself, so if anyone wants to give it a try, be my guest as I'm rather curious. It doesn't seem to far fetched considering Alpha Dream has had him cameo in each game so far. ~Chaoxys

Well there was one Zeekeeper that says "I have excitement"

An eerily similar line and, from what I've heard, the fact that he doesn't turn around to show his face like the other NPCs. Idk, I think it's worth a mention in the Trivia if nothing else. ~Chaoxys


 * We can't prove this so it doesnt count, also Fawful, sadly, died in the previous installment. - Cubeguy2ver.pnguy(talk)

Applying the concept of permanent death to a character in a Mario game is just silly when you consider the other characters that should be dead. Either way I'm not saying he should be added into the character list, heck, I'm not even saying that it is Fawful, just that it's worth a mention in the trivia if nothing else. Considering how much Alpha Dream loves to use Fawful, I almost find it hard to believe that it isn't an inteded cameo, or at least a reference.

I think that this is more something that should be in the forum. 16:51, 15 July 2013 (EDT)

I don't see how. I'm saying that I believe that this should be added to the Trivia section. Since it is most likely a subtle little nod to Fawful. ~Chaoxys

I have to wonder how this line was translated in the other versions. The European release is the first one out this time around, so it occurs to me that maybe the other languages have something different in there that could help identify the character? And when the Japanese release comes out soon, you can further prove if it's Fawful if the NPC goes ""Fururururu" -- though I don't think I know anyone with a Japanese 3DS, but I would check if I could... LinkTheLefty (talk) 18:04, 15 July 2013 (EDT)


 * Look, i want to end this, if the character was in a bird costume it would be a reference, a clever little nod to the previous installments, if not and it looked like Fawful (Or a guy in a red cape) then it would be Fawful, otherwise it's a reference. - Cubeguy2ver.pnguy(talk)

I already said that it was most likely a reference/nod to Fawful, so I don't know what your point is. Like I said before, I was saying that it would most likely be worth a mention in the Trivia section since I doubt Alpha Dream didn't intend it. ~Chaoxys


 * Whose point, me or Cubeguy? My point is that if the character's speech patterns are consistent across localizations (which I imagine is as simple as adjusting the language settings on a European 3DS and comparing it), then there may be more evidence to it being Fawful. LinkTheLefty (talk) 16:42, 16 July 2013 (EDT)


 * Sorry, that was directed towards Cubeguy. I agree with what you said actually. It would be interesting if they did change his speech (provided it is Fawful/a reference to him). ~Chaoxys


 * This is turning into a forum discussion, this is not a forum. - Cubeguy2ver.pnguy(talk)

Little help with 2nd Giant Boss Name?
Yeah, as the title states, iv played the game and am now adding stuff to the wiki, problem is this guy, the volcano boss, has no name. I have no clue how to name it's article page besides "Volcano"...... suggestions or help would be nice. - Cubeguy(talk)


 * Just use a conjectural name for now, until an official name is confirmed (such as through a future Prima guide or such).


 * 09:55, 15 July 2013 (EDT)

It's name is Mount Pajamajama as you can battle it again in the bonus ring. Also the third giant boss is Earthwake and the fourth is the Zeekeeper. -Guest

Red Grobot?
Anyone remember seeing this in the trailers? Is it part of the boss battle or is it a bonus battle thing-a-mob-jiggy? - Cubeguy(talk)


 * It might be a boss of the hardcore mode that's supposed to be in the game.
 * PrinceKoopaIV (talk) 12:01, 15 July 2013 (EDT)
 * Possible beta element.

It's Grobot X- the challenge mode version of Grobot found in the battle ring in Pi'illo castle. -Guest

It's true the Red Grobot is the Grobot X of the ring of Pillo'w Castle. --Sonic98 (talk) 13:35, 15 July 2013 (EDT)


 * Ok, so can someone add this stuff to the article, i have yet to find this in game and so cannot add it. Thank you. - Cubeguy2ver.pnguy(talk)

Info
Got some nice info, I couldn't edit the main page so here was the next best place. Anyway all this info is 100% true and thought it would help update the wiki. The boss list consists of the boss's name and location. I'm going to clear the final boss up to (obvious spoilers). You fight bowser and antasma seperate and with saves/pauses inbetween. The final boss is dreamy bowser and has nothing to do with antasma, only the dream stone. I apologize for the lengthy boss list, i didn't want it jumbled up. - Ultrapie95 16 July 2013

I took out the line before luiginary attacks. It looked like they were 2 separate posts Jukebox names for boss battles (PAL version); Boss theme = Never Let up! Giant boss theme = Size Up Your Enemy Antasma battle = The Final Antasma Battle Final boss = Adventure's End

Bros. Attacks

Mario

3D Red Shell - 4 SP/ Bye-Bye Cannon - 7 SP/ Bomb Derby - 9 SP/ Jet-Board Bash - 12 SP/ Zee Egg - 15 SP

Luigi

3D Green Shell - 4 SP/ Fire Flower - 5 SP/ Dropchopper - 7 SP/ Slingsniper - 9 SP/ Star Rocket - 12 SP

Luiginary Attacks

Luiginary Ball - 6 SP/ Luiginary Stack - 10 SP/ Luiginary Hammer - 10 SP/ Luiginary Flame - 14 SP/ Luiginary Wall - 14 SP/ Luiginary Typhoon - 16 SP

RANKS

Mushroom - default/ Shell - level 8/ Flower - level 16/ Star - level 26/ Rainbow - level 40

BOSS LIST (in order)

1) Smouldergeist - Pi'illo Castle

2) Mario clones - Dreamy Pi'llo Castle

3) Grobot - Mushire Park

4) Bowser + Antasma - Dreamy Mushire Park

5) Torkscrew - Dozing Sands

6) Robo-Drilldigger - Dreamy Dozing Sands - *****************giant battle #1

7-10) Beef Cloud/Heavy Zest/Sorrow Fist/Thunder Sass - Dreamy Wakeport

11) Big Massif - Dreamy Wakeport

12) Mammoshka - Mt. Pajamaja

13) Mt. Pajamaja - Dreamy Mt. Pajamaja - *****************giant battle #2

14) Private Goomp+Corporal Paraplink+Sergeant Guy (Elite Trio) - Dreamy Driftwood Shore

15) Fly Guy R Thieves (enemies with boss music) - Near Pi'illo Blimport

16) Wiggler + Popple - Wakeport

17) Earthwake - Dreamy Wakeport - *********giant battle #3

18) Pi'illodium - Somnom Woods

19) Zeekeeper - Dreamy Somnom Woods - ********giant battle #4

20) Kamek (3 seperate battles) - Dreamy Neo Castle

21) Bowser - Dreamy Neo Castle - *************giant battle #5

22) Antasma - Dreamy Neo Castle

23) Dreamy Bowser - Neo Castle Rooftop

BATTLE RING

- Normal Battles 1) Grobot X

2) Bowser X & Antasma X

3) TorkScrew X

4) Big Massif X

5) Mammoshka X

6) Elite Trio X

7) Pi'illodium X

8) Antasma X

9) All other bosses + Bowser Jr.! (no joke!) - He shares the same ability as the super bowser in BiS. When you use a bros attack on him, he tickles it out of mario and luigi.  Proof - http://i.imgur.com/DizQAOq.jpg

The 6 giant battles in a row are really difficult, if i manage to get to the end i will post a pic and probably a video later.

- Giant Battles 1) Robo-Drilldigger X

2) Mount Pajamaja X

3) Earthwake X

4) Zeekeeper X

5) Bowser X

6) All Giant battles in a row without healing. There is NO final giant battle. reward = 8000 coins

Boss List Updated
I added the rest of the bosses I know about from the Battle Ring listing for them. If you need a source, here's a picture of one of them (the Pi'illodium boss):

http://nintendo3dsdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Boss120percent.jpg

I'll probably add Bowser Jr and the mysterious last giant battle boss when I get evidece for them. So soon for Bowser Jr (if true), and whenever a video is released of the giant battle one.

User:Cheat-master30

Anyone know all the Expert Challenge rewards?
I've nearly finished constructing a list of all the Expert Challenges to add to the article, but I don't know most of the rewards, especially the earlier ones. Anyone know them? Icemario11 (talk) 19:18, 17 July 2013 (GMT)

Hmm yea i totally forgot those. I'm about to go through hard mode so i'll note what rewards are at what points, and then have them updated to your list. I'll also try to fill in whats missing on the wiki as i get to them during this play-through. Ultrapie95 (talk) 17 July 2013

OK, thanks. I only need anything you get before the Pro Gloves at 800 points, seeing as I have 970 on my main file. Anyway, I'll get started on finishing the table. Icemario11 (talk) 17:15, 18 July 2013 (GMT)

No problem, and Nice challenge table :). My normal file has 990 (i'll try to get 1000) but anyway i currently have 200+ points on hard mode so i'll keep on writing them down. I'm also making a small equipment chart consisting of the stats and where they come from. Ultrapie95 (talk) 4:50(pm) 18 July 2013 (EST)

I now have 980, but getting the rest of those points involves backtracking, so I'm likely going to rely on you for the 1000 reward, just so you know. As for the equipment chart, I could probably help with that on my upcoming hard mode play-through if needed.Icemario11 (talk) 22:04, 18 July 2013 (GMT)

Awesome, i most likely will miss a few when it comes to enemies dropping the gear, so that would be helpful. Oh yea, on GameFAQs it was said that the 1000 points reward is the duplex crown. It lets the wearer have 2 attack turns. I can hunt down the 2 remaining enemies if confirmation is needed though. (2 background enemies ;p) Anyway it might take a few days for me to complete hard mode but i could update as i go along. I can also add what i have and then have people add to it. Ultrapie95 (talk) 7:13(pm) 18 July 2013 (EST)

If they're background enemies, I'll just say you should probably focus on the hard mode play-through seeing as you're doing the hard mode play-through and gather info on that. I'll try and get the confirmation about the Duplex Crown seeing as I'm gonna be wrapping up loose ends in my play-through. Icemario11 (talk) 13:49, 19 July 2013 (GMT)

Kk, i didn't get to progress as much as i wanted but i'm moving along. I'm also making a bean location list and what beans you get from them. I'll post the info i have soon. Ultrapie95 (talk) 8:55(pm) 19 July 2013 (EST)

Good luck on that, Anyway, I've come up with a great strategy to check for enemy item drops that I'll be putting to use right now. Icemario11 (talk) 14:25, 23 July 2013 (GMT)

Second-person terms
Instead of "you", try using "the player". If I recall correctly, first-person and second-person terms should not be used in a wiki article; aside from quotes.

--Newzzz

Dreamy Characters added?
Should we include the Dreamy version's of characters like Brittle & Brouqe Monsur (may have written that wrong) as seperate articles or include them on the characters article. - Cubeguy(talk)

Maybe just add them to their articles, it's never confirmed whether they're 'dreamy' versions or simply whether the original character has somehow entered the dream world themselves. I suspect for the case of Broque Monsieur, it might be the latter, since he somehow shows up in two different dream areas in the game despite there being no real reason for him in the second. User:Cheat-master30

Im not sure if you have played the game, but Dreambert calls them "Dreamy (name)" at some points, in the case of Bedmith it's unclear but other characters that are met in the real world and appear in the dream world are there dreamy version's. - Cubeguy(talk)

Differences from other Mario & Luigi games
Could someone add to the above section the fact that this is the only game in which Bowser doesn't merge with the main atagonist for the final battle, instead merging with the Dreamstone? PrinceKoopaIV (talk) 08:17, 18 July 2013 (EDT)

Added. Icemario11 (talk) 17:13, 18 July 2013 (GMT)

Possible Door Glitch?
I was romping through a Dream World in Neo Bowser's Castle (the west one in the room with the flames stopping your progression), and had just opened a gated door. I deactivate my Luiginary power and make Mario go through the door a split second later, and somehow during that Mario ended up in the middle of his darkening animation he gets when he runs through doors in front of him, while still running on the spot infinitely. Dreamy Luigi's doing the same thing, except he's just running on the spot facing right. I can't actually do anything right now. That's basically the gist of what happened. I can't exactly take a picture of it, though, seeing as I lacked the proper equipment to take a proper one, but this actually happened. Had to go to the Home Menu and close the software before I could continue. Icemario11 (talk) 19:42, 18 July 2013 (GMT)

Reference to SM64?
During the giant battle against Bowser, one of the counterattacks is to swing him around by his tail. I'm sure someone can word this better than me. Thanks--124.189.103.58 08:56, 20 July 2013 (EDT)

I'm pretty sure that is a Super Mario 64 reference, and that it should be added to the article. Maybe I'll add it. User:Cheat-master30

Mini Boss's
The bosses, such as the 3 Flyguy R's and Dreamy Mario, are not really boss's but mini boss's used to pad the game out further.


 * Yes, but they are still bosses, so they count as bosses, just like on the Paper Mario series pages. --
 * I Know this but on there articles they should be called Mini-bosses and not just Bosses, i would edit this but int past people kept reverting it.

What to call certain Giant Bosses
What should we call them? Because while the page says the volcano boss is called Dreamy Mount Pajamaja, the game itself (via the Battle Ring) never mentions the word 'dreamy' in the name/description and just calls the powered up once Mount Pajamaja X. Or how about the Zeekeeper himself? An earlier version of the page named the boss version different from the other one, but the game itself makes clear that the character himself is trapped within the dream world and that the boss version is presumably the same character. And how about the other boss names? The wiki page calls them Drilldigger and Earth-Waker, but my PAL version of the game calls them Robo-Drilldigger and Earthwake. Is this a regional difference? Is the Australian/Japanese/US version of the game different in this respect? Or is it a mistake?

User:Cheat-master30

Is name is simply Mount Pajama (boss). --Sonic98 (talk) 04:22, 23 July 2013 (EDT)


 * Mount Pajamaja was just put in incorrectly, all the other bosses use the same names, im not sure about Japan though. - Cubeguy2ver.pnguy(talk)

Gear
Since there is lots of gear in this game, should we put a new subject on the page for gear? --Mariobro101 (talk) 15:47, 22 July 2013 (EDT)

Definitely. --Icemario11 (talk) 10:41, 23 July 2013 (GMT)

More Boss Drops
Since I can't edit the page right now, here are some additional (big) drops:

Smoldergeist - Cosy Wear

Dreamy Mario - So-So Boots

Grobot - So-So Hammer

Dreamy Drilldigger - Snare Boots, Super Candy, Super Nut, 1-Up Deluxe

Thunder Sass - HP Knockout Bangle

Big Massif - Knockout Boots

Mammoshka - 1-Up Gloves

Dreamy Mount Pajamaja - Metal Gloves, Ultra Mushroom, Ultrasyrup Jar, Refreshing Herb

Elite Trio - Counter Wear, Action Hammer, Mushroom (weird, but was definitely a big drop; all three presents were big boxes) Fyrisvellir (talk) 13:27, 24 July 2013 (EDT)

Gotcha, I'll add them now. And yeah, I've seen the Mushroom as a big drop from Private Goomp before. Probably due to him being a Goomba. Icemario11 (talk) 14:16, 24 July 2013 (EDT)


 * Wiggler doesn't seem to have a big drop - only ever a 1-Up Deluxe small drop - but Popple's big drop is a pair of Coin Bro Gloves DX. Fyrisvellir (talk) 08:32, 25 July 2013 (EDT)

Just added both. I'll check Wiggler out when I get to him in my Hard Mode run. Icemario11 (talk) 09:15, 25 July 2013 (EDT)


 * Zeekeeper - (large) Boost Wear, (small) Max Mushroom, (small) Max Syrup Jar, (small) Refreshing Herb. Fyrisvellir (talk) 12:27, 27 July 2013 (EDT)

Boss Drops are random
Id just like to point out that none of the items listed on this article for the boss drops ever happened in my game. All the items dropped are random and really cannot be listed. - Cubeguy(talk)

I'm sure there's some luck involved with actually getting the boss drops, seeing as there clearly is with normal drops. There's also definitely consistency with the drops seeing as I've gotten several twice, so I really doubt the boss drops are random. Icemario11 (talk) 07:34, 25 July 2013 (EDT)


 * There just plain random,i replayed it on the second file and got completely different things from the first time, besides the general candy item. - Cubeguy2ver.pnguy(talk)

Nintendo eShop Icon
Should anyone put in the gallery for this game the icon from the Nintendo eShop (not the HOME Menu).--Mariobro101 (talk) 10:10, 25 July 2013 (EDT)


 * No need there both the same. - Cubeguy2ver.pnguy(talk)

Pi'illo Locations
Shouldn't we make a seperate article for those? 12:01, 25 July 2013 (EDT)
 * If you mean the Pi'illos, I'm pretty sure they already have their own article. As for an article for their locations, I don't think that's actually necessary. Icemario11 (talk) 13:58, 25 July 2013 (EDT)

R enemies
What does the R of some enemies mean? (for example: Fly Guy R, Hermite Crab R...) --Light Matter (talk) 12:38, 25 July 2013 (EDT)
 * I don't have the game, but I think it might be a stronger variant of that enemy.
 * I have the game and "think" the R stands for re-colour, seeing as that's what it is, and is just stronger. Icemario11 (talk) 13:55, 25 July 2013 (EDT)
 * In stead of calling them elite, for example in partners in timetheres Boomguys and then theres Elite boom guys, they have just added an R, with added speed, defence, additional exp, and power like Icemario stated. This is normal for the series, they have just renamed it from elite to R. - Cubeguy2ver.pnguy(talk)

Giant Bosses
Are we seroiusly gonna put the giant bosses in a differant section? It helps me when I know the order the bosses go. As far as this goes, I'd think that Giant Bowser is the final boss.

Hard Mode Differences
Should there be a page about this or something? Because it seems the giant battles have been significantly edited in Hard Mode, and I feel someone should probably list said changes.

For instance, Robo Drilldigger sends out two tornadoes at once and fires more missiles in one attack in Hard Mode, and Giant Bowser doesn't use the meat based attack in round 2 there.

User:Cheat-master30

Yeah, I've noticed some of those differences. I think it just deserves a section, at most. Icemario11 (talk)

The problem is... I haven't really been keeping track of most differences. Which means some unlucky soul is gonna have to play through the first four giant battles in both difficulty modes and start taking notes. From what I can tell though, here are the differences in the giant Bowser battle:

1. No meat attack in round 2 2. Two squads of Shy Guys summoned in round 2 instead of one 3. Attacks take away a whole third of Luigi's lifebar rather than about a fifth of it. 4. Bowser possibly appears to attack Luigi while he's hanging on the Shy Guy airship, I noticed his fire attack gradually moving upwards.

As for the other battles, I've noticed the following:

1. Robo Drilldigger sends out two tornadoes per attack rather than one 2. He sends out about six or seven missiles when flying instead of three or so 3. Earthwake swings at Luigi as a giant hammer about ten times rather than five or so, and can take off his whole lifebar in one attack 4. Earthwake uses his hammer attack far more often and far sooner. 5. The Zeekeeper doesn't send out Mushrooms when he uses his egg attack 6. The Zeekeeper tries to trick Luigi by changing flight direction mid attack 7. He also (I think) sends out the energy balls in a more erratic, random, fast pattern (when you need to throw the tree stumps at them).

But that's only a few of the changes they likely made.

User:Cheat-master30

All I really noticed in the Robo Drilldigger battle was what you mentioned. The others I haven't gotten to yet as I'm in Wakeport, so I can closely examine those if need be later on. The patterns of the Normal Mode giant bosses are still very fresh in my mind, so I think that unlucky soul might be spared the trouble. I guess we'll see as we go. Icemario11 (talk)

Well, this article shows what you get for finishing Hard Mode:

http://nintendo3dsdaily.com/nintendoarticles/i-finally-beat-mario-luigi-dream-team-in-hard-mode/

As you can see, there are some pictures that will one day have to be captured by someone with a capture card and uploaded, since they're not found in Normal Mode. Anyone up to beating the entirety of Hard Mode with a 3DS capture card or something to get these pictures in a higher level of quality?

User:Cheat-master30

No one I know, that's for sure. I've also noticed some turn limit differences in the Battle Ring for the Giant Bosses and the level requirements are fairly higher for the normal Bosses, both of which I'll just slap in the respective tables. Can't help but wonder if there's a new secret boss exclusive to the Hard Mode version. Icemario11 (talk)

I noticed those changes as well. Indeed, the new hard mode giant boss requirements mean you literally can't make a single mistake without losing.

And I definitely suspect there's a new secret boss in hard mode. Probably in the giant battles category/medley (although I really don't think I'm ever going to get far enough to find out, and I'm skeptical whether anyone else can either).

I'll try and take down the last normal bosses in the hard mode Battle Ring tonight and see if anything interesting happens.

User:Cheat-master30

It might even be a Fawful boss no one truly saw coming. That's what I'm hoping for, personally. I could tell it was like that when I sampled Robo Drilldigger X and failed because I messed up the last counter-attack. Not looking forward to when I try to clear the medley.Icemario11 (talk)

Okay, so I now beat the Battle Medley for normal bosses on Hard Mode. No new boss here. I've also beat Giant Bowser/Bowser X in the Giant Battle Medley on Hard (how I don't know) but that still leaves the other four bosses before I can try out that Giant Battle Medley to see if anything's new (and given my miserable luck with Zeekeeper and Earthwake on Hard Mode in general, I kind of fear the worst here).

Still, I still need to do the following on Hard mode to see if it unlocks anything:

Beat all Expert Challenges

Get both bros to level 99

Max out their stats (via beans)

Beat all Mad Skillathon S rank games (have only beat Star Rocket so far)

Beat all Luiginary attack games with Broque Madame

Do maximum damage in one attack (I suspect about 99,999 damage)

Max out the coin counter.

Beat Dreamy Bowser again to see if anything changes.

User:Cheat-master30

I'm nearly done with the Expert Challenges. 848 and I've got access to Neo Bowser Castle.

I recommend you use the EXP Bro Gloves DX (Slingsniper prize) and Wellington Boots in Dreamy Neo Bowser Castle if you're doing those. Luiginary Ball it up, and you'll get there.

I'm very sure you get the Legendary Wear for beating all the Mad Skillathon games, although I've yet to do Green Shell, Slingsniper and Star Rocket so I can't actually confirm that.

I didn't even know there even were Luiginary Attack games.

I suspect 9,999,999 coins is the maximum.

I'll just do that now because I'm curious.

Forgot to mention, I've actually beaten the first four Battle Ring Giant Bosses, so I may just be able to beat what I'm expecting to be a nightmare of a Giant Medley. But that'll have to wait until I unlock Giant Bowser X.

Nope, Legendary Wear is gotten as a random drop in Neo Bowser Castle, I think from Antasman enemies. I doubt they'll use a common item as prize, the others are unique to the Mad Skillathon.

As for Luiginary Challenges, I've beaten two of four at the moment. Someone on this site says you get Supreme Wear for beating them all, but I can't verify it.

I'm doing that exact trick you mentioned with th EXP Bro DX gloves and Wellington Boots, and have gotten to level 62 so far. This could take a while.

As for giant bosses... well it's funny, but I've somehow managed to beat Giant Bowser X... but not the rest of them. That battle is actually the same difficulty as it is in Normal mode, at least in terms of turn limit.

I hope coins don't cap at 9 million or so, it's hard enough to get to 1 million. I also really, really hope levels cap at 99, but I sometimes fear Nintendo's put that cap up as well. God help me if it caps at level 999 or something.

Oh, and if anyone here needs a reference for enemy drops, here's my current list:

http://nintendo3dsdaily.com/mario-enemies/

It's not complete (because I really can't work out Dreamcap stats easily, nor the health of many enemies due to a level 62 plumber killing them in one or two hits regardless), but it has some stuff the wiki page doesn't.

Finally, I think damage caps out at about 54,000. I can't verify it, but even after a POW boost, three frozen turns and using full power Zee Egg and Star Rocket on some Grombas, it never gets beyond 54-56,000, so I suspect it caps around there too.

User:Cheat-master30

Well, I beat all four and found out it's the Supreme Boots. I've still got the Star Rocket to unlock, and the Green Shell and Slingsniper to beat.

Could take a few days of extensive grinding. You could also use the Miracle Badge and Master Badge to get even more EXP.

Still not unlocked Giant Bowser X yet, but when I do, I'll hop on to it.

I doubt they put the cap up. If they did, your stats would 999 cap pretty early.

When I play through the game once again on Normal, I'll try to look into those stats.

It'd be easy to check if you had Big Lucky at that point, assuming you don't.

I've now reached level 67. Progress is still slow (about 40 000+ exp for a single level), but hopefully I can make it soon.

Coins are now at 200,000+. Can't spot any changes yet.

User:Cheat-master30

Just out of curiosity, how strong are the golden items now?

Anyway, I'm gonna try and hoarde all pieces of gear in the game on my Hard Mode file just to see if anything happens for that, seeing as I've managed to get all the known unique boss drops barring the Dark Hammer as I have yet to fight Antasma and I haven't sold any limited gear.

Not sure, I don't use the Golden Items any more (I'll try it later). But I do have to say I've noticed that this game stats seem to be designed on the assumption you won't reach more than about level 40.

For instance, look at the Stache stat and lucky hits. I've only got about 250-300 or so in Stache for each character, yet it's giving away Lucky Hits like candy. Indeed, I wouldn't be too surprised if by the time I reach about 500-600, I was literally having every hit be 'lucky' and do more damage.

For current progress, I'm now up to level 73 for both characters. All enemies up to Pi'illodium X in the Battle Ring now go down in a single turn. Maybe I'll try and see if I can one day defeat Antasma X in just one hit, and then see if I can clear the Battle Medley in the same amount of turns as there are bosses.

But I'll see what happens. Level 99 has to get here eventually.

User:Cheat-master30

Well, I'm up to level 81 for both Mario and Luigi now. If there is a prize for reaching level 99, Nintendo are kind of evil for putting it there, since grinding takes freaking forever (it says I've played the current file for about 81-82 hours to get to this point, so it's literally an hour per level up now).

Still, I've got to level 99 in the first three games, and so I'll get there in Dream Team too. And hey, it would be kind of funny if the game gave you another rank up or something for maxing out the level cap. Let's see...

Somnom woods glitch
while in one of the parts in dreany somnom woods (trying to find the zeekeeper) if you land on a cloud using the luiginoids you will stand in midair http://www.mariowiki.com/images/7/7c/ShyGuyRed-CSS2-MSS.png Shyman

Where's the Pi'illo Section?
Is it me or did someone delete the Pi'illo section?--Mariobro101 (talk) 10:44, 29 July 2013 (EDT)
 * It got moved to Pi'illo Locations, I believe.
 * Yeah, that was me. Someone suggested moving them to their own pages or sections on other pages, and just linking to them in the Additional Information section, and I went with that idea. Icemario11 (talk)

Mad skillathon
Prize for bomb derby is Bare Boots DX. Kinda dumb It's not public for editing :| PPLToast (talk) 17:31, 31 July 2013 (EDT)
 * It's like that to avoid anons adding speculation and then we just keep it like that.
 * Its 18 days after release and people still speculate? I have to wait like 1 year for this to become public? Pls....

PPLToast (talk) 17:51, 31 July 2013 (EDT)
 * That's still not the only reason this page is locked for auto-confirmed: I'm sure it would be a high-traffic page in the future and there could be vandals continuously adding nonsense despite the game's release. Also the game isn't really out in all regions yet, so ignorant people in the unreleased regions will still add stupid information. 17:53, 31 July 2013 (EDT)
 * Besides, in a few days you'll be able to edit pretty most everything.

Slingsnipers S prize is EXP Bro Gloves DX PPLToast (talk) 07:02, 5 August 2013 (EDT)

Change pagename to Dream Team Bros.?
The game was released in Europe before the US, where it got the title of Mario & Luigi: Dream Team Bros. Shouldn't that be the page's title then? Koopalmier (talk) 14:47, 3 August 2013 (EDT)

No since this is mainly a U.S website, therefore it should have a U.S name :) Luigifan100 (talk) 15:03, 3 August 2013 (EDT)
 * ... How is this a "US" website? The wiki covers international information, about an international series, and the site itself is English-speaking. It should make sense to call the games by the name they have in their first English-speaking release, be it American or European (or Australian). Koopalmier (talk) 19:10, 3 August 2013 (EDT)

Using the first English name used to be the policy, but the wiki's owner mandated it to be NA names since a year so since traffic (and thus, search hits and the resulting ad revenues) is overwhelmingly from the U.S and Canada. --Glowsquid (talk) 19:23, 3 August 2013 (EDT)
 * Oh, right. I wasn't around since a while. Well, that makes sense then. Koopalmier (talk) 19:24, 3 August 2013 (EDT)

Should this be added to the Trivia section?
I had included the following sentence (but then it was deleted): Canadians who preorder Mario & Luigi: Dream Team can receive exclusive Mario & Luigi decals for their Nintendo 3DS or Nintendo 3DS XL.
 * Below are pictures that I uploaded to the Mario & Luigi: Dream Team Gallery. They are from various Canadian retailer websites:

Agentdave7 (talk) 20:45, 3 August 2013 (PST)

Should this be added to the Gallery?
It is the Mario & Luigi: Dream Team themed Nintendo 3DS XL that is exclusive to Japan. It has Mario & Luigi: Dream Team pre-installed on it.
 * Agentdave7 (talk) 20:45, 3 August 2013 (PST)

"Golden" Beanie?
Hey all. I think this is worth a minor note. I own the PAL version of the game, and it lists the Gold Beanie enemy as "Golden Beanie" rather than the aforementioned name. Is this the same for all versions? Thanks. Is this the first time an enemy has been renamed in the M & L Series?

Actually no, it is not the first time this has happened in the series. Luigifan100 (talk) 09:26, 5 August 2013 (EDT)

Queen Bean Reference
Bearing in mind the handful of references towards Queen Bean in the game, I think that Queen Bean should have her "latest appearance" updated... even if it was a cameo reference. Remember that Prince Peasley appeared in Partners In Time on a poster, and still received a latest appearance update. Thanx

How to format Mount Pajamaja page?
I want to make a page for it, but there's a minor issue.

Namely, the location and the boss are both named the same and arguably the same... 'character'/'thing'/whatever you want to call it.

Should I make the page about both and consider them the same? Make one for the boss and one for the location? Any ideas?

User:Cheat-master30

I'd say you should make one for both of them, and reference the other page through a "This article is about ---. For information about ---, see here."

User:Icemario11
 * In the title, one is going to need (boss) and the other will need (place) as well as what Icemario11 w

has said.

3D shells difference
I've noticed that there is a small difference between both shells that isn't written in the description. Indeed, while both are executed the same way, Mario's shell is a targeted attack (The shell stays on the same target until KO) while Luigi's isn't (All enemies are targeted and the shell switches targets randomly much like Bomb Derby). Did someone else notice this ?

--Seud (talk) 10:17, 7 August 2013 (EDT)

From what I've seen, that looks like it isn't true. I tested it last night and Mario's is a random as Luigi's. Icemario (talk)

Are we missing something in Dream Team?
I'm not sure what... but I have this suspicious feeling we're missing some sort of extra boss, attack, side quest or just about anything else of the sort.

Why? Because of two things:

1. There's a lot of places in the map that don't seem to have much purpose to them and seem like they should be more important than they actually are. See, the cave in Somnom Woods or the extra rooms in Pi'illo Castle.

2. Bowser's Inside Story had an optional boss/encounter outside of the Battle Ring/Gauntlet (the Shroobs), and Dream Team is seemingly 'expanded' in every other sense. What's more, we don't have any secret Luiginary attacks for whatever reason (like how Inside Story had both a secret ability for Bowser and a secret one for the Mario bros), which makes me sort of suspicious.

So hey, it seems like there might be something we're missing in this game. I also suspect we're missing a significant amount of gear (because seemingly every enemy drops a piece of gear at random, and the enemy list only lists both big and small gifts for less than half the monsters in the game) and possibly a reward for beating the game at a low level (didn't Bowser's Inside Story have a slightly different ending if you beat it at below level?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RjGfC_4AF8

Does anyone else think we might be missing some stuff in this game that should be wrote about on the page (when found)?


 * Well, some enemies drop gear items you can buy in usually the same area's shop. For example, the Fire Bro with the Crystal Boots can be bought in Dreamy Neo Bowser Castle. The Hermite Crab drops HP Bangles which can be bought in Wakeport. Mind you, there are some cases where that isn't true, such as the Antasman dropping the Legendary Wear, so there could be many more cases of that for the enemies whose drops aren't known.


 * As for the different ending for low level, I highly doubt that because it's not like you were told to become stronger or were congratulated for being high or low level.


 * Anyway, in general, yeah, I do.



I've noticed the whole 'drops items found in the nearby shop' thing. But don't some of them also drop items supposedly gotten in the Mad Skillathon or Battle Broque Madame? I suspect they do, especially if the whole 'beat the Mad Skillathon to get Legendary Wear' thing is true. So perhaps those will start showing up as enemy drops as well. Maybe it's so Mario and Luigi can both get the same gear, even if it's supposedly 'event'/'progress' exclusive?

And it does make me wonder about other exclusive gear... perhaps it's time to use the Gift Gloves/Gift Gloves DX against every enemy?

Either way, I'll keep looking in the hopes I'll find something new in this game. I still suspect something 'interesting' happens that someone hasn't yet come across. It's just annoying to figure out what given how the 3DS hasn't been hacked and the game has so many different areas to check out for hidden things.