Talk:Bowser Jr.

Koopa Family tag
Uhh, this is pretty irrelevant to Bowser Jr. himself, but I'm not really fond of the Koopa family tag...mark...thing at the bottom there. Lakitu and not Morton? Morton IS a dead link at the moment, and I wouldn't be able to make as detailed of a page compared to other Koopaling pages, but he deserves to be there more than Lakitu. Does anyone know how to fix this? Evan


 * I just fixed it, but to answer your question, that info was placed in a template. A template can be edited just like any other entry and has it's own page. In this case, it was Template:Koopa. -- Ghost Jam

Question
I want to disagree with something in the article says. I thoght that Bowser showed emotion towards his kids in The Super Mario Bros Super Show. I know that thats not really canon, but I'm not sure the article should say "Never". I wont change it without Someones O.kay, though. - User: Ultimatetoad


 * A comment stating "although this was not so in the cartoons" or something like that would be fine. In fact, I'll add it. -- Son of Suns

Thanks. - User: Ultimatetoad

I don't really think this line:

"The evil king himself even shows emotions toward his new son, something never seen when he is around his other seven children (although this was not the case in the cartoons"

Should be here, Bowser was never actually seen with his other children in the games, so we have no idea what his relationship with them was. -- Sir Grodus


 * True. Changing. -- Son of Suns

Thank you Mario! But is Bowser Jr. really burning another castle?
How does lightning cause fire?! If the manual was canonical, then how come it said Bowser Jr. actually DID believe that Peach was his mother? How come it says that smoke was coming from the castle as soon as Mario and Peach arrived? In conclusion, the writer of the manual was probably mistaken. - Hyper Mushroom


 * Well, lightning is extremely hot, about 28,000 degrees Celsius (50,000 degrees Fahrenheit). This is about five times hotter than the surface of the sun. This heat can set dry objects ablaze. That's why there are so many huge wildfires in the West and Midwest. Dry leaves are struck by lightning, causing a huge fire. Also, the instruction manual merely states that Bowser once thought that Peach was his mother, not that he still does (even though the game does not contradict this, I believe). I don't know what you mean by the last comment. As soon as Mario and Peach arrive, an event takes place and smoke begins to rise. Mario rushes to investigate the fire. -- Son of Suns


 * No, he didn't believe this. He admitted it at the end. Remember? - Hyper Mushroom


 * At the end of Super Mario Sunshine. But does New Super Mario Bros. (the game) mention anything about the subject? -- Son of Suns

Koopaling
Is Bowser Jr. really considered a koopaling?

By some, yes; by others, no. I don't think he's ever been officially named as a Koopaling though. -- Sir Grodus

Same Voice Actor?
Is Jr. voiced by the same actor in Mario Strikers Charged?--Bowser Jr. Fan 17:22, 8 August 2007 (EDT)

I'm not sure, anyone know where that information could be found at? But it is likely Dolores Rogers does voice him in the game. -- Sir Grodus

Also, I checked the credits in the game and it doesn't list Dolores Rogers in the voice section.--Bowser Jr. Fan 18:30, 8 August 2007 (EDT)

Trivia
In the trivia, do we really need the fact he's on a magazine cover? Mr. Guy

I would think so, its actuallly surprising to have him on a magazine cover so thats why I put it their. --Bowser Jr. Fan 09:57, 9 November 2007 (EST)

First Appearence
My brother and I are having a HUGE debate over weather or not Bowser Jr. first appeared in SMS or Mario Party, he says the latter. He claims Bowser Jr. was introduced by Bowser on the last level in Mario Party. Any explanation? We don't own Mario Party 1 anymore. --HyperToad 15:53, 28 November 2007 (EST)

Bowser Jr. had his first appearance in Super Mario Sunshine. The character in Mario Party was Koopa Kid, though I believe he went under a different name in the earlier games. ~Devicho

i reckon he first appeared in super mario sunshine like it says

Source for Trivia
What is the source of these Trivia items? - 13:13, 30 November 2007 (EST) The first three are from NoA's Mario Power Tennis website, and the fourth is from a video on NoA's Mario Golf: Toadstool Tour page. ~Devicho
 * Bowser Jr.'s motto is "Grin and bear it. When that don't work, grin and crush it."
 * His favorite hobbies are stealing cookies from other kids in day care and scribbling.
 * Bowser Jr. resides at "48 Lava Cul-De-Sac, Magma Manor."
 * Jr. spent the majority of his childhood practicing golf on his dad's private course.
 * Yeah, those looked like they were made up. Someone should put the source of the trivia items in the article. I guess I should. I am a member, after all. 15:25, 17 June 2008 (EDT)

Age
How do we know for sure that Bowser Jr. is younger than the Koopalings? Is this stated somewhere, or is it just speculation? -- Booster

Speculation, I'm guessing. I think it mostly stems from his general appearance, size and lack of fire breathing. Plus, didn't a website say he's in kindergarten or something? -- Sir Grodus 20:52, 11 December 2007 (EST)
 * Yeah, but I forget which website. >_>

It said such on the Mario Power Tennis site, though it was actually day care and not kindergarten. ~Devicho

MKWII
I heard somewhere that he is in mario kart wii, is that true???--Blue Koop 13:09, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

Yes- Shadow Yoshi

Brawl section
Is this really at all needed? It is just a list of his cameos in the game. - 07:28, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

Jr's description
Bowser_Jr.#Physical_Description says "He also wears a choker similar to Bowser's." Does Bowser Jr only wear the choker in Mario Strikers Charged? Also, Wikipeida's List_of_Mario_series_characters#Bowser_Jr. says Bowser Jr "wears a kerchief constantly.", but I see no mention of the kerchief in mariowiki's article. EarthFurst 00:47, 5 August 2008 (EDT)

Yes, he only wears the choker in Strikers Charged. - MST3K

Koopa heir/ Magic Brush
Is it officially confirmed that Bowser Jr. is the heir to the Koopa throne? Using logic, it should be Ludwig, since he's the oldest. - 02:46, 4 October 2009 (EDT)

Another question. Is it confirmed that his transformation powers come from the magic paintbrush? I always used to think it's the bandanna that enables the transformation, since he always pulls it over his mouth when transforming. Additionally, Mario's nose and beard are imprinted on the bandanna, which indicates that it was specially designed to assume Mario's form. Bowser Jr. seems to lose his transfomation powers after SMS, simultaneously he switches the blue Mario-bandanna with a white one with teeth imprinted on it. He's never seen transforming while wearing the white bandanna. I find that rather suspicious... - 02:55, 4 October 2009 (EDT)

1st question: Not really, but he is said to Bowser's favorite child. 2nd question: Bowser's Jr. loses his powers after he loses the brush, not to mention he carries the brush everytime he transforms.-- 13:23, 4 October 2009 (EDT)
 * 1st answer: Then it should be removed, if there's no source to verify that info. This is a featured article and those shouldn't contain speculation.
 * 2nd answer: But only the bandanna is actively involved in the transformation, since he puts it over his face to transform, while he does absolutely nothing with the brush. I think until he's actually seen using the brush for the transformation, this part is speculation too... (maybe the bandanna was created by the brush, since it looks like a Mario beard was scribbled on it, but that's another story). - 13:56, 4 October 2009 (EDT)

Well, him being the heir has kinda been hinted at. In his Mario Superstar Baseball bio, it states that Bowser thinks that the kingdom is in good hands with Jr. Never 100% confirmed though. --Devicho 16:50, 4 October 2009 (EDT)

I don't think it's speculation, really. It is very deductible that the the brush is a part of his tranformation. Shadow Mario's exterior looks like he's covered in some kind of goop while the Magic Brush creates goop. As for the bandana, it could simply be a design and nothing more. owser's Jr. also cannott tansform by himself. Nintendo never outright confirmed it, so we must draw the answer using common sense. 17:13, 4 October 2009 (EDT)
 * But common sense is very subjective, and also my common sense tells me that it's the bandanna, since it clearly looks like and is used like a tool to transform into Shadow Mario. I can't really think of another reason why Jr. should be running around wearing a bandanna with part of Mario's face on it over his mouth (he strongly dislikes Mario). - 17:21, 4 October 2009 (EDT)

It may be possible that both are part of his transformation. We have 4 explanations at this point:


 * 1) BJ has an inherent ability to transform (which is debunked because he never transforms outside of his first game)
 * 2) BJ uses the brush to make himself appear like Mario (though it doesn't explain why he wear a bandana with Mario's face on it considering he hates Mario)
 * 3) BJ uses a bandana to tranform (though it doesn't explain where the goop-like substance comes from)
 * 4) BJ use the bandana to cover up his facial features and paints his body with the brush.

I'm starting to think #4 makes more sense. 17:41, 4 October 2009 (EDT)
 * What about my theory that he used the brush to create the bandanna? I think it would be handier to create a tool to transform, rather than painting the whole body all the time. Plus, the gooey effect seems to wear off the instant he pulls that thing from his face (note the cutscene in Pinna Park). - 17:54, 4 October 2009 (EDT)

You're thinking too hard on this. We don't know anything for sure except that the brush and bandana may have something to do with his transformation. Anything beyond that is speculation.-- 19:03, 4 October 2009 (EDT)
 * You're right, we know nothing more than that, which is not much. The problem is that the article clearly states that he uses the brush to transform, which can not be verified by an appropriate source. I am sorry if I'm annoying you with my picky behaviour, I am only worried because this is an FA, and it just throws that information at the reader without any citation. - 19:09, 4 October 2009 (EDT)


 * How would it be if we just describe what he does to transform (holding the brush and putting the bandanna over his mouth) and don't say anything about how important these steps are for the transformation? That way there's no confusion and no speculation. - 19:13, 4 October 2009 (EDT)

Ah, no problem. That should work. After all, it is 100% fact.-- 20:09, 4 October 2009 (EDT)
 * From my first time playing the game, it felt obvious to me that both the bandanna and the brush work in-tandem. The bandanna defines what the user will turn into, while the brush is the how behind that transformation. Redstar 22:49, 25 November 2009 (EST)

I think brush alows him to transform, while the bandanna allows him to assume the form of mario. User:BowserInTheSun

I disagree, BowserInTheSun - when Shadow Mario transforms back into Bowser Jr., first he spins around, making a Shadow Bowser Jr. (Bowser Jr., but made out of that blue goop), then pulls down the bandana, ridding his body of the goop. So I'm pretty sure that the bandana makes the goop (I know that doesn't seem to make sense), then uses the brush to move the goop around into the right shape - or the spinning does that, and the brush does nothing.

what world will he be in
hey i was wondering what world he will be in new super mario bros wii!

Well I have the game and you battle him in the airships which are in World 4,World6,and World 8 -Jelly912

Bowser Jr.'s Connection to Il Piantissimo
Some people might know the controversity surrounding Il Piantissimo, who seems to find Bowser Jr.'s Magic Brush at the beach after the events of Super Mario Sunshine. There are several rumours about the Identity of Shadow Mario after the game (in the game, there's no doubt that he is Bowser Jr., since we can see him transform).

While doing research on Super Mario Sunshine (I'm currently expanding the level articles of that game), I made a rather surprising discovery. There is this mission, in Pinna Park, Episode one: Mecha Bowser appears!. During that mission, you chase Shadow Mario through Pinna Park until he reaches a pool of water, where a giant metal-replica of Bowser appears later on. However, just before that robot appears, Shadow Mario can be seen standing in front of the pool, waiting for the player. And while doing this, he has exactly the same idle animation like Il Piantissimo. Right after that scene we see him transform into Bowser Jr.. So my question is now: What the heck is that supposed to mean? - 11:27, 21 November 2009 (EST)

My theory is that since Il Piantissimo runs wildly using Mario's moves and Shadow Mario runs wildly using Mario's moves, Maybe Nintendo edited Il Piantissimo's sprite to make it look like a Shadow Mario, but forgot to change his standing animation.

No, I doubt this was a programming mistake. But I did notice how Shadow Mario does that head-bouncing-thing just like Piantissimo, and I don't think he only dose this in Pinna Part. It is also just possible that Nintendo was planning a sequel where Piantissimo has the brush, but never made another game. Although that's still unlikely...

Is Bowser Jr. affiliated with Princess Peach?
Sigh... since communication seems to be so hard these days, and since I see an edit war arising here, we will settle this argument democratically. So stop edit warring and start voting. Ah, and another thing: Any kind of flame or personal attack made here will be met with appropriate measurements. You have been warned!

Should Princess Peach be mentioned in the affiliation section of Bowser Jr.'s infobox? - 19:01, 30 November 2009 (EST)

Yes, they are affiliated

 * 1) - Bowser Jr. starts of believing that she is his mother, and even after he is proven otherwise, he still calls her mama mockingly. For me that's enough proof that they are at least affiliated in some way (Bowser Jr. with Peach more than Peach with him)
 * 2) - Per Edo
 * 3) - Per Edo.
 * 4) Panchito - A charcter doesn't have to be in a friendly relationship with a character to be affiliated with them.
 * 5) - Per Edo.

No, they are not affiliated

 * 1) - I disagree for the reasons I listed in the "History" summary. I honestly don't see how being tricked into thinking that Peach is Bowser Jr.'s mother, means that they're affiliated. Also, Peach has never joined forces with Bowser Jr. in any way, shape, or form, unlike some of her temporary alliances with Bowser.
 * 2) - Per SolarBlaze; I don't see why Bowser Jr. could be affiliated with Peach in ANY way. Bowser and Bowser Jr. are antagonists while Peach is a protagonist. This just doesn't sit well with me here. Not to mention that Peach finds Bowser Jr. annoying (along with Peach hating Bowser himself).
 * 3) -Misunderstood the proposal...again. Per all.
 * 4) - Per Merit
 * 5) - Affiliation is an entirely different term to "relationship"
 * 6) Per SolarBlaze. Roy Koopa calls Princess Peach "mom" in Super Mario Adventures, and yet that doesn't mean they are affiliated.

Comments
@Solarblaze: However most recently Bowser Jr. has been the one kidnapping Peach instead of Bowser himself.


 * D'OH, I thought Edo meant relationships, not the affiliations, but i'm still questioning.
 * I think it would be helpful to define a standard for the affiliation section. Is it for organisations the character is a part of? Is it for allies? Is it for people who have a strong connection to that character? I looked at the infobox' talk page, but the question wasn't answered there. - 01:28, 1 December 2009 (EST)
 * By definition, "affiliation" in its modern sense refers to a singular character or group and their relationship with a group or organization. You cannot be affiliated with a singular person; has to be a group of some sort. Bowser Jr.'s relationship to Princess Peach is just that: a relationship, and is adequately described in the respective section. Redstar 01:37, 1 December 2009 (EST)
 * Well, then we have some reforms to do, actually, since many character articles list single persons in their affiliation sections. The two possibilities now are either to change the name of the affiliation section itself, or to change the infos on all that character articles. - 01:45, 1 December 2009 (EST)
 * Well we can add a new section to the template, and divide the two as "Affiliations" and "Relationships" (Major relationships only, of course). For Bowser Jr., Koopa Troop under Affiliation(s), and Bowser, Mario, Princess Peach, and Koopalings under Relationships. It can satisfy both parties, and won't increase the template too noticeably. Redstar 01:52, 1 December 2009 (EST)
 * I think this discussion is deviating from the main point. The real question is whether or not there is a significant relationship between Bowser Jr. and Princess Peach. Whether you call it an Affiliation or Relationship seems very moot, as you could fit the definition under either. In my opinion, I do think their relationship is significant enough to warrant a mention in this way. Much of Bowser Jr.'s actions in the all of the games he has been in revolve around his ties to Princess Peach, making such a relationship important enough in the Mario storyline and to Bowser Jr.'s persona to warrent its mention as a significant relationship in Bowser Jr.'s article. 15:45 5 April 2010 (EST)

Spelling & Grammar

 * I spotted some mistakes on the article, but due to the full protection, I can't fix those mistakes. One mistake that I found was that Bowser's name isn't capitalized at one spot.  14:34, 1 December 2009 (EST)


 * The page is no longer protected, so you're free to go make those corrections now. 19:47, 4 December 2009 (EST)

Just letting everyone know...
That I'm going to edit the page with a few new tidbits of information regarding what we know about his upcoming appearance in Super Mario Galaxy 2. If anyone thinks it's too soon to add any details about that, just leave a note here and make whatever fixes to my edits need to be made. Teamrocketspy621 15:39, 24 February 2010 (EST)

I also made some edits to this section --~&#91;{( Mr.Chris )}]~ 16:52, 7 March 2010 (EST)

Mario baseball series section
Hey, just think this section needs checking on. So can someone just read through it and make changes where needed. I also added to the first paragraph on this section too, which is my first edit to a main article. Link: http://www.mariowiki.com/Bowser_Jr.#Mario_Baseball_series So yeah, I just feel there needs to be some editing done to this section. --~&#91;{( Mr.Chris )}]~ 16:47, 7 March 2010 (EST)

Smallest?
"it is known that he is the smallest of the eight children"

Pretty sure Lemmy is the smallest, right? Correct me if I'm wrong. Pal_626

~Jr. is the youngest of the 8, however Lemmy is indeed the smallest in terms of size. MST3K~

You know, that's something I never really got. Bowser Jr. is supposedly the youngest, yet Lemmy is the smallest, the most childish, and he doesn't even have any fangs (or visible teeth, for that matter). Not to mention Lemmy is supposedly one of the eldest. I also noticed that, originally, Lemmy was the only one of Bowser's children to have the black wristbands but without the spikes. Pal_626