MarioWiki:Proposals

Either restrict usage of or don't use NTSC or PAL on articles
It's common knowledge to mention regional differences between versions of the same game across the globe and there's nothing wrong with that. You know what is, though? Using the terms "NTSC" and "PAL" when it actually wouldn't really apply that well in the first place.

First of all, NTSC and PAL would really only apply for the older (analog) TV sets back in the day. Newer HDTVs don't really use the analog NTSC or PAL video standards anymore, instead going for digital standards like ATSC, ISDB or DTMB, for example.

Second of all, NTSC and PAL are mainly used to denote which video standard is used for TVs, not so much for video games (except for rare cases in which the content is exactly the same as the American version, where the only difference is game speed thanks to the PAL format in question).

Not only that, but several people are still insisting on using NTSC and PAL for certain cases when it really wouldn't make sense (for example, this revision of the Shifty Shrine article). This needs to change.

I'm proposing to replace either any or most instances of "NTSC" or "PAL" for video game regional differences with "American English" or "British English" whenever mentioned in articles. My reasons as for why are as follows:
 * The Game Boy, DS and Switch systems are region-free, meaning any game can work on any regional system.
 * Most translations into American and British English are basically almost identical (e.g. Kirby: Triple Deluxe, Mario Party 8, etc.). There are the rare few (Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS / Wii U, The Legend of Zelda: Tri Force Heroes, for example) that are completely different in many ways.
 * For the most part, only Europe, South Africa, Australia and New Zealand use the PAL standard for older video game consoles (before the Wii U). Japan, China, Korea, the US, Mexico and Canada use the NTSC standard for those games. Stating the PAL or NTSC version for games whose releases are on newer consoles that use 1080p graphics (Wii U and Switch, currently) or on portable systems (Game Boy, Game Boy Colour, Game Boy Advance, Nintendo DS or Nintendo 3DS) is just inaccurate.

I foresee so many ways this proposal could go in these two weeks so I'm adding multiple options. These options could be the one with the most votes at the end instead of just one, so they are there just in case. If you guys have any suggestions for other options before the end of the first week, then that would be great. The currently available options at the moment are the following:
 * 1) Replace any instance of NTSC and PAL for video game regional differences with American English and British English, respectively. My preferred choice.
 * 2) Use American English and British English for articles that relate to games for the portable systems and the Wii U and Nintendo Switch, but use NTSC and PAL for everything else. My second preferred choice.
 * 3) Do absolutely nothing. I suggest that we do not pick this option under any circumstance.

Proposer: Deadline: March 29, 2019, 23:59 GMT Extended to April 5, 2019, 23:59 GMT

Option 1: Use the American English and British English terminology wherever possible

 * 1) My preferred option.
 * 2) I think this would simplify our life in the long term, taking us away from terms that are more and more losing usage and are problematic when used here even in the implied meaning of region due to Japan adopting NTSC as well, making the term NTSC region again an imprecise term
 * 3) After some thinking, yeah, maybe use this instead. After all, some of the newer users may be confused by the "NTSC" and "PAL" terminology, so it's best to inconvenience the least amount of users possible.
 * 4) Option 2 is still works, but using the American English and British English terminology works in general and thus is more convenient. Using NTSC and PAl for everything (Our current setup for the most part, aka option 3) is downright incorrect as Owen explained, so this is my preferred option. Per all.
 * 5) Per all. Using PAL and NTSC will confuse new users, and with games like Captain Toad on Switch, it doesn't make any sense when both the American and British are on the same cart.
 * 6) I'm not opposed to option 2, but I feel this option would be less confusing to readers. Per all.
 * 7) No need to confuse younger readers with techno babble.

====Option 2: Use NTSC or PAL only for articles that relate to the older home consoles (NES, SNES, N64, GCN and Wii) / Use the British or American English terminology for handheld consoles, the Wii U and the Switch====
 * 1) Second preferred option. After all, NTSC and PAL only apply to the analog TV sets.
 * 2) NTSC/PAL is valid distinction for older home consoles.
 * 3) Second valid alternative, requires us less work and the older home consoles had effectively a PAL/NTSC-only output
 * 4) - This one makes the most sense to me.
 * 5) Second option.
 * 6) Per all, makes the most sense to me.
 * 7) It makes perfect sense to keep old terminologies in articles pertaining to old games.

Option 3: Do absolutely nothing

 * 1) Errr, current setup is perfectly fine. Why making a proposal about it?

Comments
From what I've seen, people don't say that they're "NTSC" or "PAL," but say "NTSC region" or "PAL region," which works as a shorthand way of denoting the regional split where differences tend to crop up. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 21:43, March 14, 2019 (EDT)
 * Uh, interesting. Never knew that until now (either that, or I never really saw that crop up that often). For the most part, whenever people mention it, they usually say "NTSC version" or "PAL version." – Owencrazyboy9 (talk) 21:58, March 14, 2019 (EDT)
 * Yeah, NTSC region and PAL region are barely used on this wiki, if at all. There's also the issue that NTSC is used in Japan as well, so I can see why NTSC region isn't really used that much.--Mister Wu (talk) 22:38, March 14, 2019 (EDT)
 * I've mostly sen it in regards to the original Luigi's Mansion, where it is a difference in-line with said TV parameter differences. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 23:06, March 14, 2019 (EDT)

I don't really see a need for this proposal, personally. If there's inaccurate terminology being used on the wiki, it should be fixed on a case-by-case basis. I'm sure there's cases where NTSC/PAL is accurate, cases where American/British English is accurate, and cases where neither phrasing would be accurate and something else would need to be used. -- 1337star (Mailbox SP) 13:21, March 21, 2019 (EDT)
 * There's actually a need of this proposal since the usage of those terms stems from rules written in the glossary. Considering how NTSC and PAL output are at this point almost completely phased out, it makes sense to consider a revision or an update of the glossary.--Mister Wu (talk) 23:13, March 21, 2019 (EDT)

@FanofYoshi: No, it's not perfectly fine. NTSC and PAL themselves are basically no longer accurate to today's current advancements of technology. The Wii U and Switch use an HDMI connection, which uses digital connections, not analog. Portable systems, like the Game Boy and 3DS, don't really use NTSC or PAL connections, because they are...well portable. Older home consoles do use NTSC or PAL analog connections, though. – Owencrazyboy9 (talk) 13:45, March 26, 2019 (EDT)
 * I'll admit I did not know what either of those were in reference to until after some amount of time of browsing this site. And I started browsing it back around in 3rd-4th grade age. So if it wasn't understandable by kids then, it certainly won't now. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 13:51, March 26, 2019 (EDT)

New features
None at the moment.

Removals
None at the moment.

Change the source priority exception to a more case-by-case basis
I've seen a proposal MarioWiki talk:Naming, which decidedly made an exception to priority names. However, i don't like this setup. While i prefer "Klamber" and "Scorchit", over "Scuttle Bug" and "Zeus Guy", i've seen articles named after their internal filenames, taking priority over guide names. And i also know at least one (or possibly two) example(s) doing that. I also want to say that "but has a confusing english name" is arbitrary. Given the Urchin situation that has driven me mad during a whole proposal, and potentially that Gringill split, it's time to stop making exception for internal filenames.) Proposer: Deadline:April, 8, 2019, 23:59 GMT

Comments
This isn't an April Fools joke, right? 03:42, April 1, 2019 (EDT)
 * No? So, you mean that in April Fools, you should ONLY make joke Proposals? -- 03:44, April 1, 2019 (EDT)
 * No, just that you should you should expect someone to ask that question when you launch a proposal on April Fools. 04:11, April 1, 2019 (EDT)
 * My point on this proposal is to override the source priority exception Niiue has made, and to determine each case. If it passes, we will revisit the internal filenames later. (which i feel responsible too) -- 05:15, April 1, 2019 (EDT)
 * Regarding the Urchin proposal, i'm pretty sure that Doc von Schmeltwick would have used a similar argument to that he used here. -- 05:48, April 1, 2019 (EDT)

I'm not sure why more case-by-case basis (something I agree with, since the text of the original proposal is generic and thus can't be used right away without a discussion first, in my opinion) is used in the context of what seems more a stop making exception for internal filenames, the scope of which (all or certain?) isn't even clear.--Mister Wu (talk) 09:56, April 1, 2019 (EDT)

Miscellaneous
None at the moment.