MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/44

Split Badge and Clothing by game
SPLIT 7-0

Badge and Clothing are currently long articles with several different lists; in Badge's case, you have both Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi games lumped in there. I think these lists, when split by game, are more manageable and serviceable when they are separate articles. In navigation templates, readers can look up the appropriate section rather than have their browser load a huge page with several irrelevant games. It would also be consistent to split them by game, since we already have other charts split by game. Finally, in Badge, while Dream Team and Bowser's Inside Story sections are rather small, I think it's still doable to leave them separate for consistency sake they can work if they get merged to their parent page, which is also consistent in other cases, which Walkazo has pointed out in her support.

Both will still stay as a lone article, but it's there to link all the badge/clothing lists by game into one article, and, at least in Badge's case, it will retain its history section.

Finally, the List of badge names in other languages (and clothing, if it has one; as far as I know, it doesn't) can be merged into these split articles, so it also eliminates an odd page that was created due to the badly-organized nature of those pages.

Proposer: Deadline: November 30, 2015, 23:59 GMT.

Support

 * 1) I think these two pages are better off split by game. Yeah, Badge is probably not going to remain featured, but that shouldn't be a reason against the merge, IMO. Featured articles were unfeatured as a result of organization and deletion proposals before, so that reason in of itself isn't good.
 * 2) - I supported the idea on the forum, and I support it here too. Except the part about splitting the BIS and DT badges: I disagree that it needs to be done for consistency, since we have plenty of cases where something split for one game remains merged in another (usually merged to the parent game article, rather than a separate page, but whatever, close enough). EDIT: Including the part about merging the BIS and DT badges to the game articles.
 * 3) – Per Walkazo, especially about leaving the Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story and Mario & Luigi: Dream Team Bros. information already present on the article as is.
 * 4) - Per Walkazo.
 * 5) Per all.
 * 6) Per proposal but not Walkzao, I think everything should be separated for both consistency and because it's still two separate games.
 * 7) Per all.

Comments
RandomYoshi: I think what Walkazo is trying to say is that the small information in Bowser's Inside Story and That Other Game can be just moved to a subsection in their parent articles. E.g. we remove Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story in Badge and add this same section under "Items" in Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story. 17:47, 24 November 2015 (EST)
 * If this is what was meant, then I understand the situation better. In fact, it's way better that way, so yay. 14:42, 26 November 2015 (EST)
 * I was actually advocating to leave the badges where they are, but moving them to the game pages makes more sense, and is more in line with existing coverage practices (which I was referring to as being similar to my original idea). -
 * I myself thought your implications (along with the "whatever, close enough" at the end) were that the moving method is the preferred and usual method. 16:15, 26 November 2015 (EST)
 * Nope, just that separate pages weren't the only way, as game pages retained things sometimes, so why not the badge page too? - or so I was arguing (but not anymore). -

Do not relegate charts to templates
PASSED 11-0

This proposal affects, , , and any other similar templates that have been overlooked. These three are charts that were once part of their respective articles (Super Smash Bros. for Wii U, Mario Kart 7, and Mario Kart 8), but were unceremoniously split into those templates. Nobody complained, and here we are. I think it's about time somebody complained. Simply put, the advantages do not outweigh the disadvantages. I brought the topic up on one of the template's talk pages, and Walkazo, BL, and LGM chimed in with their own comments. Moving the charts doesn't make editing all that much simpler, since that's what editing via section is for, and it just makes editing the charts more complicated. Since the article still has to load the template as well, I believe that it wouldn't help all that much for loading times either. Meanwhile, sticking the charts on a template by themselves is inconvenient and makes no sense considering that they're only going to be used on one or two articles, max. These charts can easily be reincorporated back into their articles.

This proposal is not affecting rules and other protected page, such as the proposal header, since they are kept separate in order to ensure that they can only be edited by the right people.

Proposer: Deadline: December 17, 2015, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) I support my proposal.
 * 2) Per proposal. Having them as templates makes it slightly more difficult/time-consuming to edit them. Templates are mainly for use on multiple pages, it makes no sense to create an entire template just for one page...
 * 3) Per myself and all involved in the talk. Get rid of 'em.
 * 4) - Per TT, I see no benefits in the current situation.
 * 5) I actually complained in person with Baby Luigi and was about to bring it up, but the latter never occurred to me. Anyway, per my comment in the talk page; templates are intended to save repetition on particular coding when it is used several times, such as navtemplates, infoboxes, notice templates, and button input. This may save text or so when you're editing an entire page, but the savings are measly when it is much more inconvenient for editors and has virtually no advantages for our readers. So, yeah, just move them back to their parent page.
 * 6) Per all.
 * 7) Just because I have no idea what "relegate" means doesn't mean a chart isn't the same as a template. Per all.
 * 8) Per all.
 * 9) Per all.
 * 10) – Per all.
 * 11) - It would make sense if content was being duplicated on multiple pages, but simply outsourcing chunks of a single page is unnecessary added complication with very little gain: long sections aren't that big of a deal, and this trend should be stopped before it spreads any further.

Comments
Wording title is kind of weird, the proposal's strength in the future may be better if it said "Stop outsourcing entire chart content to templates"; "stop" is more precise since the outsourcing is ongoing; "relegate" is vague compared to "outsource". 15:53, 10 December 2015 (EST)
 * That seems pedantic.
 * I don't see why you're always so defensive to my wording suggestions. IMO, making the wording more precise makes it easier for referrals in the future. 17:35, 11 December 2015 (EST)
 * You didn't have to make it personal. The title gets the point of the proposal across and it can be clarified as needed in the archive.

Poking around a bit more, I actually found a bit more justification for the SSB4 template: it was meant to go on both Super Smash Bros. for Wii U and Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS, so rather than having all the identical info duplicated, it'd just be in one central place, saving space and making upkeep easier, which, assuming the two games remain identical in their rosters, does make sense. The guy who made the template initially put it on both pages, but then there was an edit war on the 3DS page and ended in the removal of the template, but really, looking at the two charts, I fail to see a difference, and really, that edit summary is contradictory to what the chart was envisioned to do (and I checked, and it looks like the pre-template version of the 3DS chart was indeed the same as the Wii U / current one). I agree that a one-template-to-one-page substitution is needless complication (we actually told people to stop doing it on userpsace years ago), but it could make sense for pages that share large chunks of content. (But even then, prior discussion would be better than just striking out on one's own.) - 16:01, 10 December 2015 (EST)
 * For this case I do see the use in having the template. Maybe the proposal could be modified to say templates only used on one page are useless whereas if they're used on more than one it's fine to have them? --
 * My sister brought it up previously: "it's more convenient to edit the template once than go through it twice" but it may not have been clear to you at the time. Anyway, I've said this already: templates are supposed to make repetitive content easier to implement, but I think we can go through case-by-case rather than make a flimsy qualifier in this proposal. 16:10, 10 December 2015 (EST)


 * Just to note: the difference in the Smash Bros. tables is that certain characters that are unlockable in the Nintendo 3DS version (Bowser Jr., Ganondorf, and Ness) are available by default in the Wii U version, and both tables reflect that by listing those characters in the appropriate sections. If we were to use one table then we would have to show that difference.


 * -Toa 95 (talk)
 * Well, there goes that. There is no reason to create the template for those either. I knew there was some catch between the 3DS and Wii U games when it comes to characters. 16:18, 10 December 2015 (EST)
 * I didn't see the talk page again after I made my comment - got too busy and forgot to check back. And ah, okay, I didn't catch the different between-header placements: I just thought there were arbitrary order differences at times and the headers blended into everything. Too bad - it'd be easier to manage one set of info, but yeah, setting up a switch function to have those characters appear in different places depending on the page would probably be too much trouble for most peoples' tastes. - 16:35, 10 December 2015 (EST)

Create a Account creation encouragement template
DELETED BY PROPOSER

Sometimes there are great ip users who make tons of useful contributions that help this wiki grow. Those ips are extremely welcome contributors who unfortunately, are ineligible to do advance things such as editing semi-protected pages, moving pages, creating new pages, and various other useful contributions due to their non-registered status. I think we should create a template to encourage them to join as registered. The template would be placed on ip user talk pages. I have drafted a design for this template:

Hello [ insert ip address here ], have you considered creating an account here. Your contributions to this wiki have been very appreciated but in order to unlock various other useful feature in this wiki, you will need to have an account. Having an account will increase your tool options by allowing you to create new pages, edit protected pages, vote in proposals and other discussions, upload new file media, rename pages, have a personal username and userpage. We strongly recommend you create an account to unlock these feature. Proposer: Deadline: December 25, 2015, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) per proposal.

Oppose

 * 1) Per the arguments that were brought up the last time this idea was proposed: it's tedious and frankly unreasonable to have someone or even several people keeping track of every IP that pops up, IP's can be accessed by numerous individuals, and a blanket template probably won't convince them to sign up if they hadn't done so already.
 * 2) There are two main reasons this probably wouldn't work: 1.) Most IPs edit once and leave, others edit about once every few months. I haven't noticed all that many IPs who make enough edits (that is, within a reasonable time period) to make an account in the three years I've been here. 2.) Rather than a template, couldn't we just tell them in an informal message?
 * 3) Just leave it up to the individual operating the IP to see if they want to have an account or not, no need to nag them with an unnecessary template. Per Time Turner.
 * 4) - Per all here, and per the opposers of the last proposal. Also, that template is garish and painful to look at.
 * 5) Per all.
 * 6) I think this template will actually discourage users. If there are anons that are being super active and helpful, then it's better to thank them formally to encourage their signing up than to give a less caring, automated template.
 * 7) – Per all.
 * 8) Per all. I really don't think this is something we'll ever agree to doing.
 * 9) Per all.
 * 10) IPs can be IPs if they WANT to, they don't need an account to edit. per all.
 * 11) Per all; If an IP doesn't want an account, they don't need to make one.
 * 12) I don't see this going well. A lot of IP's make useful edits, but a lot of them also make edits that are very unnecessary. If we incourage them to make an account, especially the bad ones, we're going to have a problem. A lot of IP's only make one edit and leave anyway. Plus, why can't we just say it in an informal message?
 * 13) While I usually dismiss such arguments like "no one can do it" as laziness, in this case, it really is near impossible to keep track of all the IPs. No one is going to be like, "hey, I recognize that IP before!" Additionally, it's highly unlikely for IPs to check their talk pages; most just edit casually. And if the IPs really want an account, they will choose to do it themselves; I doubt that many people who acceses this site are actually aware of the account feature. They're staying an IP for a reason.

The Wording on Proposals Archived by Their Proposer
WITHDRAWN BY PROPOSER

As you know, nowadays, whenever someone archives their own proposal, it is filed under "DELETED BY PROPOSER." It used to be the case that it would say "WITHDRAWN BY PROPOSER" instead. I bring this up because saying "deleted" is wrong. Deleting is more along the lines of removing altogether; this wording is odd in the case we're using it with. Here are some scenarios:

Deleted: Removed entirely from the wiki. Removed: Removed entirely from the wiki. Withdrawn: Voluntarily archived.

I'm sure there are others that could work but these are the only ones I can think of.

The two on top are misleading. The proposals aren't being obliterated from existence, except for some cases. When someone archives a proposal voluntarily because they don't want it up, they aren't really deleting it per se, only withdrawing it.

Finally, this wouldn't affect proposals vetoed by the admins and archived; they always have the wording "VETOED BY THE ADMINISTRATION." This would only affect ones removed by the proposer.

Proposer: Deadline: December 26, 2015, 23:59 GMT

Change the Wording

 * 1) My proposal.

Do Nothing

 * 1) - Seeing as most pass/fail messages are customized and unique, I feel like it's not worth bending over backwards to make the cancellation messages uniform. "Deleted" is by far the most popular choice, especially in older archives, and it works perfectly well unless you want to be really pedantic; "cancelled" and "removed" have been used as well and are also fine (but really, as long as it's grey, that's what matters most). It's simpler to just let users continue to choose whatever wording they want as long as it's clear, concise and professional, regardless of whether their proposal passed, failed or was taken down early.

Comments
For such administrators actions, it's better to contact them directly. I don't think it's important to move this thing through the slow process of proposals.-- 17:01, 19 December 2015 (EST)