Talk:Koopa Troop

Alternate Versions
Should Clawgrip, Tryclyde, Fryguy and Mouser (the character), who were members of the "Koopa Pack"/"Koopa Troopers" in The Super Mario Bros. Super Show! and Nintendo Comics System, be included on the list of operatives? -- Sir Grodus

Yes, but with tags next to their names stating that it was only on the Super Show. Booster


 * I'd say so. Also, shouldn't Yoshi be listed under the enemies of the Koopa Troop (as he helped bring them down in Super Mario World, Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island, Super Mario Sunshine, ext...? --Bentendo 11:07, 18 March 2007 (EDT)


 * Isn't that "enemies of the Koopa Troop"... well, isn't there like, or something? Max2

They don't really need to be protectors of the Mushroom Kingdom to be enemies of the Koopa Troop; guys like the Smithy Gang and X-Nauts are enemies of the Koopa Troop, but certainly not protectors of the Mushroom Kingdom. -- Sir Grodus

I mean, technically we could put, like Taste T. or the bush that gives you the Koopa leaf 8) but really, there are to many enemies of the Koopa Troop. Max2


 * But the Yoshi species have tried to take them down in atleast five different games (Yoshi's Story, Island, Island DS, Mario World, Mario Sunshine). --Bentendo 11:23, 18 March 2007 (EDT)

I'm going to remove Petey Pirahna from the list of major members, because he was never proven to be part of the Koopa Troop. MarioFan9999 10:23, 27 July 2008 (EDT)

Mario sunshine, NSMB, Super Princess Peach.... in all those games, he was working for Bowser. I think it's safe to say he's in the Koopa troop.GreenKoopa - Comments or questions?

Bowser Baddies
I think that the Bowser Baddies are just the crew of the koopa cruiser. they were never called otherwise afterwards. - Senor Luigi

Dry Bowser
Since Dry Bowser is really just undead Bowser, Is it really necessary to list Dry Bowser as a seperate member? Hence, I will remove Dry Bowser from the list.

Supa Koopa

what is the koopa troop called in bowser inside story super mario galexy or any other new games?
--Raushad 16:52, 13 January 2010 (EST)

== I guess it's the Koopa Troop in recent games. In some games, the Koopa Troop is not mentioned, but they are still the Koopa Troop. -Scorpion999

Request to seperate.
I would like to request making Koopa Kingdom, which currently redirects to here, into its own article. I was looking for info on it, and I had to sort it out of this page. I'm kinda new here, though, and I don't feel confident doing it myself. Besides, I'd like to see what others think about this first. Thanks! 1337star 17:38, 5 February 2010 (EST)
 * This page should not really cover every single enemy that has been remotely associated with Bowser anyway. - 08:59, 10 February 2010 (EST)
 * Shouldn't Koopa Kingdom redirect to Dark Land? After all, that is the land Bowser is shown to rule. I'm fairly confident that it actually is the KK (no pun intended).
 * It should redirect to Dark Land if Dark Land is specifically referred to as the Koopa Kingdom in official sources. Anything else would be speculation (which this subject already has enough of). Besides, Dark Land is far from the only place that Koopa has ruled in the games. Pretty much every game places his castle in a different area, and the ever-changing geography of the entire game world makes it impossible to actually define where a "Koopa Kingdom" would be anyway.--vellidragon 18:52, 3 May 2010 (EDT)

Bowser Jr.
Shouldn't Bowser Jr. be on "major members."
 * He's one of the supreme leaders.

Kamek a Foe?
Since when did the Koopa Troop fight Kamek? Sorry if that's a stupid question, but I need to know.

Count Bleck
I mean he was once supreme leader. Fawful isn't a member of the Koopa Troop, but he is listed under supreme leaders.
 * Well, Fawful took total control, but after Bleck brainwashed most of them, Bowser still had followers (in the Bitlands). I don't think Bleck can be considered a supreme leader since he didn't have control over all of the Koopa Troop.
 * Well than neither should smithy or fawful since Bowser always had a small minority of troops loyal to him even when they were in power
 * Smithy had control over all but two individuals (if memory serves, they ran shops), I believe. I think the difference lies in the fact that the supreme leaders use the Koopa Troop as their primary attack force. I could be wrong, but I believe Bleck's Army only had a significant amount of the Koopa Troop in Castle Bleck. Everywhere else was primarily populated by new enemies.
 * You are wrong Bowser held control over a division of his army who attacked mushroom way, Bowser also Count Bleck held control over the vast percentage of Koopa Troop Forces and if supreme leader means the one who controls the army than he would be supreme leader especially since it appears that the troops that were loyal to him still attack Bowser after he joins the party
 * Yes, but Bowser did not retain that control, losing that amount to Smithy later. Just because Bowser gets attacked after joining the party doesn't mean that those troops serve Bleck; it just means they're programmed to be general enemies. Wouldn't Nastasia technically be supreme leader, not Bleck, considering the former actually does the brainwashing and commanding (e.g. commanding troops to grab Luigi)?
 * No because she was under orders from Count Bleck to brainwash them
 * I don't remember her being told to do so. I thought she just told the count that she was going to take care of the stragglers, which she did not out of subservience but out of admiration.
 * I don't remember any real lines dealing with the issue but i do remember the brainwashed troops saying all hail count bleck so they were followers of him
 * Fair enough. It's been about four years since I've touched the game, so my memory isn't what it used to be.

Koopa Troop Ranks
Shouldn't we list the ranks of the highest minions in the Koopa Troop based on what has been shown. Bowser is obviously the leader of the Koopa Troop. Bowser Jr. is second-in-command because he is Bowser's son and a prince and therefore, heir to the throne (Fact). He has also been shown commanding the Koopalings in New Super Mario Bros. Wii and has ordered Kamek to do a task in New Super Mario Bros. U. Kamek is presumably third-in-command since he is the royal family's caretaker(this has been shown), has very high magic skills(more than the Koopalings and regular magikoopas), and is the highest ranked minion since he has been in the Koopa Troop for a long time(from when Bowser was a baby). He has even commanded the Koopa Troop himself during that time. Lastly, the Koopalings would become the next in command being high ranking generals. As Ludwig is the presumed leader of the Koopalings, he would the fourth-in-command of the Koopa Troop.

Before anyone brings up the Super Mario Bros. 3 player's guide saying Ludwig was originally second-in-command, there are two possible reasons for that explanation. It could mean that during that time the Koopalings were still considered Bowser's children and since Bowser Jr. didn't exist yet, Ludwig would be heir to the throne. This has been retconned though. The second reason could be that since the Koopalings are the only ones helping Bowser in that adventure and Kamek was absent, Ludwig by default would have to be second-in-command. I think the first reason is more likely to be true.

What do you guys think? Should we mention the ranks? Smasher345


 * I'm totally with you. Everything you typed makes sense, so there should be rankings. 17:23, 8 April 2014 (EDT)

Suggestions
I'm thinking we should put a section for usurpers such as Smithy and show a photo of Bowser's insignias from Galaxy among others.--Ladies-Man1 (talk) 22:22, 8 February 2014 (EST)

When is it ever referred to as simply Koopa?--Ladies-Man1 (talk) 16:08, 14 September 2014 (EDT)

Rename to "Koopa clan"?
I believe the most widely-used name is supposed to be the one chosen for articles, and apparently the term "Koopa clan" was used throughout the Paper Mario games. I think that would make it the most recurring name, but someone may need to double-check on that. I'm fairly certain Koopa Troop is actually just above "Bowser Baddies" (used only in reference to the Koopa Cruiser crew) in terms of usage in official sources. LinkTheLefty (talk) 11:55, 13 May 2014 (EDT
 * It's used in Bowser's Fortune Street bio. If one name isn't clearly dominant over the other, most recent wins. --Glowsquid (talk) 12:15, 13 May 2014 (EDT)
 * Is "Koopa clan" not used in the more-recent 3DS RPGs? If not, then I guess that makes sense. LinkTheLefty (talk) 12:25, 13 May 2014 (EDT)
 * I wish I hadn't lost Dream Team. :\ 12:28, 13 May 2014 (EDT)

What's going on?
I understand that people are trying to be practical, but I prefer knowing who's affiliated with the Koopa Troop, what sort of things they use, and what kind of plans they had in the past. Can we please change it back to what it once was?--Ladies-Man1 (talk) 10:58, 4 October 2014 (EDT)
 * Glad to see the member thing is restored, but why are the Koopa Kids listed as leaders? If they are, then shouldn't Kammy be in there, too?--Ladies-Man1 (talk) 19:19, 27 October 2014 (EDT)
 * How about we make a header for the Koopa Troop like with the games that lists the affiliates, locations, and such?--Ladies-Man1: user and writer (talk) 20:09, 1 September 2015 (EDT)
 * Example? 20:10, 1 September 2015 (EDT)
 * The kind that's show at the bottom of this http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Red_Ribbon_Army if it's not too much of a problem.--Ladies-Man1: user and writer (talk) 09:29, 3 September 2015 (EDT)
 * We've got something similar for games and Bowser's family.--Ladies-Man1: user and writer (talk) 19:45, 3 September 2015 (EDT)
 * Such as that miscellaneous Koopa thing at the bottom of Wendy_O._Koopa's article.--Ladies-Man1: user and writer (talk) 11:47, 14 November 2015 (EST)

Are in Japan Turtle Tribe (「カメ族」) and Koopa Corps (「クッパ軍団」) the same thing?
I just found this line in Bowser's bio on the Super Mario Memorial Book on page 59:

「クッパ軍団を率いる巨大なカメ族の大魔王にしてマリオの宿命のライバル. 」

Now, I'm having many trouble trying to translate this, but it seems to suggest that the Koopa Corps (「クッパ軍団」) lead the Turtle Tribe (「カメ族」). Am I wrong? What is the correct translation for this line? What is the relationship between Turtle Tribe and Koopa Corps suggeted by this line?--Mister Wu (talk) 06:41, 11 January 2016 (EST)
 * My rough take on the translation is that Bowser is the Great Demon King of the Turtle Tribe who commands the Koopa Corps. In this intepretation, Koopa Corps would be Bowser's faction of the Turtle Tribe. Or something like that, I'm not completely sure. SmokedChili (Talk) (Thoughts) 11:39, 11 January 2016 (EST)
 * Now that I've taken a closer look at this, it seems my original intepretation isn't too far off. In case I have translated the part 「[クッパ軍団を率いる]巨大なカメ族の大魔王」 correctly, in English it's something like this: "The huge, Great Demon King of the Turtle Tribe [who commands the Koopa Corps]". So ultimately, クッパ軍団 and カメ族 are different things. SmokedChili (Talk) (Thoughts) 14:19, 26 February 2016 (EST)
 * Thanks! We should probably correct the main page, then. It will be interesting to see if in the future this distinction will lead to something.--Mister Wu (talk) 15:24, 26 February 2016 (EST)

Peach a member?
Since when was Princess Peach ever a member of the Koopa Troop?174.52.54.159 14:39, 20 March 2017 (EDT)
 * For the same reason Mario is listed as one: They and Bowser team up during games like Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars and Super Paper Mario, making them "honorary Koopa Troop members". 14:42, 20 March 2017 (EDT)

That makes no sense at all 14:59, 3 December 2017 (EST)
 * Bowser himself has stated that Mario and Peach were members of the Koopa Troop. Seeing as Bowser is the leader of said troop, it falls to him to decide who his members are, even if it's just temporary. 15:05, 3 December 2017 (EST)

The structure of the Koopa Troop according to the Super Mario Complete Encyclopedia
The Super Mario Complete Encyclopedia, published in 1991, includes the structure of the Koopa Troop. There are of course some parts still stated nowadays, such as the Turtle Tribe leading the Koopa Troop as you can see in the discussion above, in general however this information is outdated, with the Royal Family no longer existing as such (in current Japanese material it is not mentioned at all and, as a consequence,Bowser Jr. and Bowser aren't stated to be part of it, back then it was referred to Bowser, the Koopalings and, before Super Mario All-Stars, Blue Bowser) and Kamek is missing, since Yoshi's Island was yet to be released. Do you think we should add it nonetheless, maybe in its own section to separate it from the current depiction of the Koopa Troop?--Mister Wu (talk) 11:39, 11 April 2017 (EDT)
 * The Koopa Troop article needs a major rewriting, anyway. I'm all for splitting the information between past and current renditions. 11:56, 11 April 2017 (EDT)

Luigi
I know it says Luigi isn't considered part of the Koopa Troop when he and Bowser work together in Super Paper Mario, however Bowser "hires" Luigi into his forces in Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga in a similar way to how he considered his SMRPG teammates minions I suppose. So I think if Mario counts as a (former) member Luigi should too then, correct? Or is there another reason why Luigi isn't included? -- 21:29, 27 July 2017 (EDT)
 * It's less that he hired him and more that Luigi was confused for one of Bowser's minions and got dragged along. 21:33, 27 July 2017 (EDT)

Removing "Mario", "Peach", and the one-off RPG guys from the infobox
Personally, I think these entries are not infobox-worthy information. For something as large and as expansive as the Koopa Troop, the infobox is used mostly for general information. For starters, we don't add Yoshi's Island bosses as "members", despite being technically considered as one. In addition, since they were only temporary members, not permanent, unlike the rest of the entries on the list, I think being described as is in the article is better than leaving them in the infobox. 15:03, 3 December 2017 (EST)
 * While I agree, it should be noted that the page is currently sporting a rewrite tag. Bearing that in mind, it might be better to just get the overhaul going before losing too much sleep over the details of a flawed page that might not even exist for much longer in this form.
 * But really, if there exists contradictory/contextually irrelevant information between games, like the Yoshi's Island example and now the SMRPG thing, maybe those games should have their own separate instance of a member list alltogether instead of trying to make the top one fit all. - 15:36, 3 December 2017 (EST)
 * The problem is that currently the Koopa Troop is just a generic term to indicate Bowser's army. The only definite structure that it had is the one of that official 1991 book which ironically still seems to be the source of the current official material and even the most recent RPGs, if the Super Mario Pia, Paper Mario: Color Splash and Minion Quest: The Search for Bowser are an indication. If you want, I can provide the translation that made of those pages in this talk page so we have at least an idea of Nintendo's old memos on the Koopa Troop. The chart is old, though, and Nintendo seems to rather prefer to maintain the troop undefined so changes can be made without particular restrictions. The Koopa Troop is Bowser's army, everything else is pretty much inconsistent. I'd even argue about how much Bowser Jr. is the leader of the Koopa Troop in Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle. If it were for me I'd rather not list the members at all, we're trying to define what Nintendo is no longer trying to clearly define since the '90s - the classification of the enemies was evidently missing in both the Super Mario Pia  and the  Encyclopedia Super Mario Bros..--Mister Wu (talk) 16:11, 3 December 2017 (EST)

Bowser's Minions
So I go to search up Bowser's Minions (I wanted to get to this article), and it redirects me to M&L: Superstar Saga + Bowser's Minions. A) Why? B) Shouldn't we make a disambugation page if that's really how we want it?
 * This isn't really the sort of thing that warrants a disambiguation page. I believe the SS+BM page takes priority for the redirect because it's part of the game's name. Besides, there is an about template on that page which leads to the Koopa Troop page which I think is good enough. 09:26, July 7, 2021 (EDT)

Turtle Tribe in relation to Koopa Troop
The boundary between the Turtle Tribe and Koopa Troop is something that's come up on this very talk page several times, but not much has come of it. I have this idea: why not just keep the "Turtle Tribe" info on the Koopa species article? I think Turtle Tribe basically serves the same purpose as the turtle species article, with turtle enemies and non-tribe members together both being part of Bowser's army. The names in other languages also split between both articles, which violates once and only once. There's no other name for the Koopa species as a whole in many languages. We'd trim and move the Turtle Tribe info from Koopa Troop and into the Koopa species article, and turn Turtle Tribe into a redirect for the Koopa species. How does that sound? LinkTheLefty (talk) 16:32, October 18, 2021 (EDT)
 * Yes, I agree that the closest to the "Turtle Tribe" concept in the West is the concept of the "Koopas". Even though one is a tribe that also leads Bowser's Army and the other is more a biological concept grouping related turtle species, at this point I don't see Nintendo of America adopting the "Turtle Tribe" term and dropping the "Koopa" term - there's not a strong reason to do so after all, the "Koopa" term is more than adequate to fit the stories of the main games and even of the various spin-offs. In this sense it's interesting to see how in some languages the "Koopa" term became the name of the Koopa Troopas, with Bowser still being the king of the Koopas: it shows how hardly essential are these concepts in the games and why we have troubles finding the proper terms in the various languages.--Mister Wu (talk) 17:15, October 18, 2021 (EDT)
 * I support this as well. Another thing I wanted to bring up is since "Koopa" is not a singular "species," should that article's identifier be changed to "tribe," as it is both initially described in SMB's western manual and how it is still described in Japanese? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 01:04, October 19, 2021 (EDT)
 * I think "Koopa clan" is still in use semiregularly... What's the better word to use? LinkTheLefty (talk) 02:06, October 19, 2021 (EDT)