MarioWiki:Proposals

List of Talk Page Proposals
None at the moment.

Writing Guidelines
None at the moment.

Have a EULA system for users to sign before joining this wiki
I have seen that a lot of users day by day when they join they immediately start vandalizing articles and blanking pages and are ignorant. I've been thinking we should implement a End User License Agreement system in our user creation system that the user should read and agree with while they are creating their account. At least that will let the user know what our expectations are while they are creating their account so that they don't shoot their foot off and vandalize this wiki. You know we should have it set up that the user can only hit I agree after he/she reads the entire thing just like how Windows NT 4.0 and 3.XX 's eulas work.



Proposer: Deadline: July 23, 2014, 23:59 GMT

Have

 * 1) Per my proposal and my comments below.

Don't Have

 * 1) Per Glowsquid in the comments.
 * 2) - Per Glowsquid and Baby Luigi in the comments. This is completely pointless.
 * 3) Per Glowsquid and myself.
 * 4) Per comments. If people join up to vandalize, an EULA isn't going to stop them. Writing and enforcing one of these would just be a huge waste of time.
 * 5) Per all. It's a formality that holds no actual weight and it going to be more trouble than it's worth to set up.
 * 6) Per all.
 * 7) Per all. This will not make the registration process any harder than it currently is.
 * 8) Just because we have many screenfulls of words people will "have to" read, doesn't mean people will read it and listen to it. They're probably going to vandalize anyway. Per all.
 * 9) Per Glowsquid in the comments.
 * 10) if you like to cut down vandal traffic, legal stuff won't stop them. this is a free-edit wiki site, and its purpose should remain stuff. if you really want to stop vandals, spend your time making a ClueBot-like bot or something.
 * 11) These are like License Agreements, except License Agreements are intentionally written in a way that hardly anyone will ever read them.
 * 12) Per all, aside from the help pages and the matter of that vandals will not think even for a split-second to read the EULA. Users are expected to contribute with normal sense. Personally, I never read EULAs, just because I can expect what am I not supposed to do. And even so, vandals do not worth the trouble to set this, they can be reverted within seconds.
 * 13) Per all.
 * 14) Per all, vandals wouldn't care to read this. Also if they are "forced" to actually read it, they can do the obvious thing and scroll to the bottom without reading to get to the next page.

Comments
But if a user immediatelty starts vandalizing articles, that's probably just what they are: vandalists who join just to cause trouble. I don't think they'd care much about what we expect. -- 10:38, 16 July 2014 (EDT)

This is a ludicrous idea for many reasons:

1; The Mariowiki isn't a purchaseable/licensed software. It's not even a software. There's no legal basis for tying the right to edit the wiki to a contract.

2: An additional screen of legaleses isn't going to keep out dedicated trolls.

3: We already have multiple pages detailling what we expect of user behaviours and editing competence.

4: Even if we had a legal basis for requiring a contract and that it was somehow a viable deterent, there's no viable way we could enforce it in case of violation. None of us are paid, for pete's sake.

5: Even if we could somehow enforce it, taking people to the court would be a ludicrous waste of time, $$$ and effort.

teel-deer: lol. --Glowsquid (talk) 10:48, 16 July 2014 (EDT)
 * I know that but a lot of users just are way too goddamn lazy to even read the damn rules for crying out loud so the EULA actually acts there for convenience and it is not pointless. Hell,even Facebook and Twitter have EULAs so that users know the rules right upon sign up. The Windows NT 4.0 EULA is therefore to show how it doesn't let you hit F8 to install Windows until you read the entire whole damn thing.You get the idea right. I mean it could be a quick reference just before a user creates an account and it is just to check if a user is sincere or not. Do you get what I am trying say. I mean we could just modify the wording so that it would fit our style of writing and since we're not a company hey it will list all the rules and everything that the guideline pages talk about and sorry if you are misinterpreting things. I find the EULA system to be potential for new users when they join immediately so that they don't shoot their foot off.
 * You can't force people to read stuff, and they're far less likely to read a big wall of legal crap than our rule pages: they'll just hit the button automatically, or they'll give up and just edit anonymously. Either way, you're not stopping the vandals, just dissuading potentially productive users, which actually makes it worse than useless. -
 * It won't be a big wall of legal shit just like the Windows NT 4.0 EULA. It will be a big wall containing all rules of the Wiki. It won't contain legal crap except for mentions of Nintendo's name and all that shit. It will make the user more productive in my point of view than a spammer or a vandal.Considering that this is my proposal,I have a right to change it and did this change your mind.

You're missing something here. There's nothing forcing people to follow it. Whether it's pages of legal crap or just explaining the rules, people are far more likely to just mash the "next page" button than read a word of it. And, let's be serious now-HOW IS EXPLAINING THE RULES GOING TO DETER SPAMMERS AND VANDALS? A two-year-old could figure out that replacing a page with the word "poo" isn't allowed. How is "forcing" them to read it going to deter someone from doing something they'd do in the first place? Writing this would just be a huge waste of everyone's time.--Vommack (talk) 18:13, 16 July 2014 (EDT)
 * Yeah, people will still just skip it or give up, regardless of what it is that's being thrown in their face. Rules are better divided up into manageable chunks with specific focuses so that people can look things up when they're unsure about something or are referred there or whatever: the longer the page, the faster the eyes glass over, in my experience. My mind is unchanged. -

Why are all my proposals end up failing on me even if think of a decent idea that could be implemented on this wiki?? Why do people even hate this idea,I mean Facebook and Twitter has it too? I think it would be a good idea. The way the EULA would deter vandals and spammers is that it would give them second thoughts about if they really want to join this wiki to really be part of it or just be a one year old who would steer up trouble on the wiki and waste their time here by shooting their foot. For goodness sake,does anyone get what I am trying to say?
 * I must ask you, yet again: What would force them to read it? Sure, other sites do it. I'm sure you faithfully read every last word in every EULA from every site you've registered on? Besides that, "other sites do it" doesn't support any argument, as it applies to nearly anything. The bottom line is, if someone signs up for the explicit purpose of vandalizing, throwing a wall of words at them won't change it.--Vommack (talk) 18:32, 16 July 2014 (EDT)
 * A trigger similar to Windows NT 4.0 and Windows NT 3.XX would make that the incentives to force them to read it. But what I am trying to say is that what if a normal person and not some dumbass who has nothing better to do than to spoil all our hard work joins then at least the EULA will help out in guiding the user when they create their account. I do feel a strong sense of justice within me.
 * You're still missing something...There's nothing stopping any user from just mashing the trigger.--Vommack (talk) 18:52, 16 July 2014 (EDT)

I get what you're saying Pwwnd, but there's very little chance someone who comes to destroy our hard work would change their mind because of a bunch of rules they see when getting an account. -- 19:06, 16 July 2014 (EDT)
 * If anything, it's going to make users not join. I know I probably wouldn't if all I saw was that, because it's like saying something bad will ban you because you were on a list. Some younger users might be scared of signing something like that because there parents wouldn't want them to. - 01:29, 17 July 2014 (EDT)
 * But what if in the future someone decided to change their mind then it will have to be there. I do think thrice about it. Besides I see more potential in a EULA system and it feels beneficial for the Wiki itself.
 * We do all get what you're saying. We all just have better reasons why not to do it. Like I said in a different proposal, voting against one doesn't mean the voter hates it. Anyway, like everyone else said, there's no real way we can confirm that the new user has read everything. Like I said in my vote, they may not even read it. There's no real way past that.
 * The problem with what your proposing is that the very purpose of wiki sites like this is that anyone can edit it. It's supposed to be a free site, and vandals aren't that big of a problem anyway. Seriously, we can just undo their edits with a click and that's that. And they get blocked nearly immediately. It's not like this site is in jeopardy because of some SNEAKY SCHEMING vandals found a secret, convoluted way to vandalize an open-door, universally editable wiki with some jibberish that gets reverted within a click away and a few seconds. Again as I said, the best way to counter vandals is to undo their edits and quietly report their activities to an administrator. If we're THAT sophisticated or desparate, we could even implement an anti-vandal bot (but that ain't happenin as far as I'm concerned) 21:17, 17 July 2014 (EDT)
 * Honestly, though, we need someone or something to handle blocking or reverting during my 5-8pm hours, because literally no-one but me, Mario Jc and a couple other regulars are there and we have to wait hours until someone else comes online. I'm not trying to say "Promote me!", if anything I think that that's a bad idea, but a bot would help at these times. - 01:36, 18 July 2014 (EDT)
 * Admins are online whenever we are online, we can't be online at every single hour of every single day. It may be annoying, but it's something that you'll have to deal with until one comes online.

So,technically 90% of the time people don't give a damn about EULAs because they are obsolete and lengthy. I mean Paypal had the biggest EULA ever.So you guys mean only 10% of the people would give 10 shits about EULAs. Hell, Windows NT 4.0,3.5X and 3.1 makes you read the entire damn EULA but Windows 2000 and XP allow you to hit F8 right away so you don't have to go through all that bullshit again and make it unimportant because we want to install the goddamn OS.So an EULA is a waste of time for us, I mean Microsoft and Apple and other free commercial software manufacturers are wasting their goddamn time with a EULA that no one cares about. I mean GNU software do have EULAs as well.
 * I'm pretty sure Apple and Microsoft have more reasoning than keeping away vandals. - 01:53, 18 July 2014 (EDT)
 * The EULA is there because it's for legal purposes entirely. So just in case someone sues them or something, the EULA is basically a "terms of service" thing like a contract that you agree to use and can be used against cases in court. 22:25, 18 July 2014 (EDT)
 * Re: Bots: We're not giving blocking powers to a bot, and making one to revert things also seems dubious security-wise, and either way, it'd be too much trouble to make considering that anyone can undo things manually. As others have said, vandals are not worth the worry. -

@Pwwnd123: I see your point about GNU and those other softwares having EULAs, but I agree with Baby Luigi and Ninelevendo, and as stated earlier, this wiki isn't software, we're a wiki that anyone can sign up and start editing on. We have ways to deal with vandalism already, we don't need something others have to read through upon login. The Welcome template has links to those pages that make the rules clear, like the MarioWiki Policy category. Do we really need to add a EULA on top of that?
 * But the only problem is that the Welcome template only is given when a user makes his or her first edit. What if they immediately made their first vandalized edit. Then a EULA becomes important. That is the only disadvantage of the Welcome template. A EULA works out much better in my opinion. We'll still be a free to edit wiki even with a EULA. I mean sites like Facebook and Twitter have EULAs and shit like that.

A EULA still wouldn't help. If they're first edit it a purpose vandalized one, they are probably a vandal, and won't change their mind. And I never got a welcome template. -- 19:06, 19 July 2014 (EDT) So someone needs to make an edit to get a Welcome template. Like Triple-K said, reading a EULA won't change their mind. On this site, pretty much anyone can sign up, that's why we have younger users on this wiki; On Facebook and Twitter they have age limits. The younger people that sign up would probably care as much as someone looking to cause trouble. If the user is not a vandal, then I think they have good enough explanation once they get the Welcome template, and it won't really matter that they have to make just one little edit.

Create a NEC and PC-88 Page
You know how we have a page about Philips and the Philips CD-i. I think we can do the same with NEC and their PC-88 home computer. The NEC PC-88 did had 3 Mario games released for it so we can create an article for it. For the NEC article we can go into a brief history of the company and then go into the Nintendo and Hudson Soft's perspective only just like with the Philips article. For the PC-88 page we can do a similar thing like the CD-i page and go over the system's history in brief and and talk about the three Mario games on this home computer. We can try to abide by the wiki's manual of style and be trying to keep it relevant as possible. Also,NEC did also did help by producing some of the chips Nintendo uses in their consoles such as the GameCube and Wii. I created the NEC article already.

Proposer: Deadline: July 24, 2014, 23:59 GMT

Create an article for both the parent company NEC and the PC-88

 * 1) Per my proposal.

Create an article for the PC 88 only

 * 1) Per proposal. Just this is enough, there isn't much Mario related things for NEC.
 * 2) Per Triple-K.
 * 3) Per Triple-K.
 * 4) Per Triple-K: I cann't see the point of copying Wikipedia...
 * 5) Per all.

Do Nothing

 * 1) Per standard procedure. You don't need community consensus to create an article for a standard topic. Generally, you'd bring articles here when either a consensus can't be reached or a more drastic measure is being suggested. These are standard topic articles that I agree we've been missing. Go make them both, with my blessings, and we'll go from there.

Comments
You know that NEC do have an involvement with Nintendo, besides they make some of the Wii and GameCube and Wii U hardware chips. It does not all necessarily have to do with Mario.It's the involvement with Nintendo that matters the most just like with the Philips article. Even though we are the Super Mario Wiki for the case of the NEC article we only talk about Nintendo's involvement.For crying out loud, it's Nintendo who is the creator and the creator Nintendo deserves more than Mario on the NEC article.
 * NEC has not been directly invovled in the production or distribution of a Mario game (afaic), making a page for them would be coverage creep. Many companies contribute hardware for Nintendo's systems, but nobody's asking for AMD or IBM to get pages. --Glowsquid (talk) 17:05, 20 July 2014 (EDT)
 * So Philips only deserves an article because they distrubuted and produced a Mario game. NEC doesn't deserve and article due to not being involved with the production of a Mario game. I mean Hudson Soft made 3 Mario games and NEC would have an involvement with Hudson Soft with the NEC TurboGrafx-16/PC Engine so isn't that full circle.

"So Philips only deserves an article because they distrubuted and produced a Mario game" Leaving aside that there were two other Mario and one Donkey Kong game stuck in development hell, yes. If you can't *prove* NEC was actually involved in those PC098 games, it doesn't warrant a page. Conjecture doesn't replace facts. --Glowsquid (talk) 18:33, 20 July 2014 (EDT)
 * Actually,so the company should have a Mario game published in order to qualify for an article? NEC were probably the licensee of these games and so were Nintendo.So the NEC article should be deleted,right?

Guys, only a thing... how many NEC Mario games are there? 4?
 * Nelsonic Game Watch has like 6, so I don't think quantity of games really matters. What matters more is its relevance to Nintendo and the Mario series. 16:49, 22 July 2014 (EDT)

Removals
None at the moment.

Changes
None at the moment.

Miscellaneous
None at the moment.