Talk:Blue Toad (character)

Blue Toad page
I created a Blue Toad page as seeing other species members like the colored yoshis having their own pages. Seeing as he is also a hero in the new game, NSMB Wii I think he should get a page. I will add more later. Pichufan93

Actually you're right. However, it's always a better idea to add all the info at once rather than "do it later".-- 18:03, 22 October 2009 (EDT)

Sorry about that, I was kind of busy too. Pichufan93

Good idea! BulletBill 12:54, 7 November 2011 (EST)

Yellow Toad
What about the yellow toad? Will he get a page???

Yes! I will make him one too over the weekend (time)! he needs a good solo pic too :( Edit: I made him one now. Pichufan93

Blue and Yellow Toad's Nicknames
http://www.destructoid.com/nsmb-wii-release-bash-bucken-berry-and-ala-gold--155242.phtml

According to the article, the nicknames of the Blue Toad and the Yellow Toad, given to them by the development team, are Bucken-Berry and Ala-Gold.

...No comment. - Smashgoom202 22:51, 18 November 2009 (EST)
 * The article's author asked an unspecified Nintendo rep (not Miyamoto or another developer) who didn't really know about the tournament, but otherwise knew "a lot of stuff." The rep told about nicknames supposedly used by the Japanese developers and whispered two names that don't sound typical for Kinopio at all. At the end, the author even humourously writes "I don't know if this guy knows what he's talking about or not, but I don't care". I can't take this seriously unless one of the developers confirms it in an interview or something. It could just be a joke made by the rep. --Grandy02 12:45, 8 January 2010 (EST)

"Ala-Gold" is from: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_War_The_Third_Gathers:_The_Backstroke_of_the_West so I highly doubt the rep's comment holds any water. Vent (talk) 22:19, 21 February 2013 (EST)

It's technically "Allah Gold" in Backstrokes of the West, but ermph, yeah. Since the Destructoid article doesn't explicitely states it's a joke, how about a disclaimer among the lines of:

"Destructoid's Jonathan Holmes claims that, during a press event, a Nintendo Representative told him the Toad is nicknamed Bucken Berry by the developers, though the veracity of this fact is dubious as the name given to the Yellow Toad ('Ala-Gold') may be a reference to an infamous bootleg of Star Wars: Episode 3."

?

(having read the Backstrokes of the West blog post well over 10 times, I'm ashamed I didn't make the connection myself...) --Glowsquid (talk) 22:55, 21 February 2013 (EST)

"Blue Toad" or "Blue Toads"?
Are we to assume that every instance a blue-color schemed Toad has been featured in a Mario game, it's the same one? That seems like a lot of speculation to me. Redstar 18:06, 25 November 2009 (EST)

Well he shares a lot of similarities and usually in the main story games, there is usually one blue toad and numerous red toads (the spinnoffs usually have large numbers of them). I think it's best to leave him as he is for now seeing as there is a toad species article to relate to. It also seems likely he is the same as he is often seen with the other 4 toads in most of his appearences. User:Pichufan93

Split and Merge Article
It cannot be assumed that just because a particular Toad is wearing blue, that every Toad wearing blue is the same individual. Prior to NSMBW, yblue Toads were simply generic background characters and had no real personality. Even the only personality-trait of the Super Mario Galaxy Blue Toad, of wearing glasses, is not found in this new Toad. This all suggests that they are different Toads that simply share a choice in clothing color. As it stands now, this article covers every appearance of a blue Toad, regardless of whether they may be the same Toad or not. The article also covers blue Toads "as a species", which is far too distinct a subject to cover on the same page; not to mention the different-colored Yoshi aren't considered different species, just variety.

What this proposal hopes to achieve is to split off and merge all relevant information to the correct articles to create more comprehensive and specialized topics. Information to be merged are as follows:


 * Blue Toads in a group, such as in Super Mario Sunshine and Super Mario Galaxy to be merged into the Toad Brigade article.
 * Blue Toads "as a species" to be merged into the Toad (species) article. Assuming different coloration is indicative of separate species is too speculative for this wiki, as well as largely-disproven due to indication of vest and cap as articles of clothing in most media. This standard is also followed for Yoshi (species), wherein differently-colored Yoshi are not considered separate species, but just variety.
 * The blue Toad of NSMBW into a new article, covering only that particular Toad. His singular nature, differing personality, and lack of a group suggests he is a new character. Suggested article names are his development name, "Boppen Berry", or simply "Blue Toad (New Super Mario Bros. Wii)".

Proposer: Deadline: 13 February 2010

'''Please vote here, as both this page and Blue Toad must be dealt with the same way. Since any decision made for one page must be carried out on the other page, only one vote concerning the two articles will be held.'''

Wait, hold on... whose idea was it to have two pages, Blue Toad (New Super Mario Bros. Wii) and Blue Toad (Toad Brigade)? I saw that there was a proposal about it, but having two pages wasn't part of the proposal. And if you ask me, having two pages really doesn't make sense. First off, the pages are written as if these two toads are certainly two different characters. But there's no reason to assume that they're different; if you ask me, it's more likely that they are the same character, since Nintendo seems to be using him in several games. And second, whether there are two toads or one, there is still no problem with having a single Blue Toad page. The page could discuss blue toads in general, and it could also describe the specific roles that blue toads have in Super Mario Galaxy and New Super Mario Bros. Wii. (And in my opinion, it should also mention that these two toads could be the same.) Would there be any problem with that? There's a single page for Blue Yoshi, even though there's no proof that all blue yoshis are the same character. And everything I said here applies to Yellow Toad, too. 22:00, 1 April 2010 (EDT)
 * Redstar's, and mines. I helped Redstar split Blue Toad, because they are different, and have different names!!! (Blue Toad (NSMBW) is Bucken-Berry, and Blue Toad (Toad Brigade) is just Blue Toad.) It is just too messy. It also said that Toad looked blue in Super Mario Bros. 2, and that it is also a species.
 * Did you read the article that's linked to above? The "Bucken-Berry" thing isn't official, it's just a name that some random representative gave, and he might have been joking. That's no reason to have two separate pages... and it wasn't messy at all when it was one article, I think. And like I said, having a single "Blue Toad" page doesn't necessarily mean that there is only one blue toad. 22:24, 1 April 2010 (EDT)
 * Still, the Blue toad in the Toad Brigade isn't brave, while the Blue toad in NSMBW is. Same thing goes with Yellow Toad. I'm going to email Nintendo to ask them if Bucken-Berry (or Yvan) is the official name for Blue Toad.
 * You can do that, but "Bucken-Berry" isn't official and has never been released by Nintendo. Maybe it isn't really the developers' name at all. And I see your point about the personalities, but like I originally said, there can be a single Blue Toad page that covers more than one toad (that's how it is with Blue Yoshi.) And second of all, they may have different personalities, but that's no reason to assume that they can't be the same character, no matter what. In fact, I think the odds are as likely as not that it's one toad. According to this wiki, the Toad Brigade was promoted to royal guards in the special ending of Super Mario Galaxy - so doesn't it make sense that two of those toads would help to save Princess Peach? 14:35, 2 April 2010 (EDT)
 * Well, Blue Yoshi is about the blue yoshi species, while the original Blue Toad page toad about the color limitations, the Toad Brigade one, the NSMBW one, and Blue Toad as a species. The Blue Toad wears glasses in Super Mario Galaxy, he doesn't wear glasses in New Super Mario Bros Wii (or did he get contacts??). And the IGN called Blue Toad (New Super Mario Bros. Wii) Yvan.
 * He could have gotten contacts... that cook toad in Thousand Year Door wore contacts, so why couldn't blue toad? And IGN is an unofficial fan site, so a name given by IGN is not official at all, and isn't relevant to this wiki's format. 21:45, 2 April 2010 (EDT)
 * Well, they are still different characters, or how about let's merge Yoshi and Baby Yoshi into Green Yoshi, Super Mario 64 DS into Super Mario 64, Metal Mario (character) into Metal Mario (form), Baby Mario into Mario, and Toadiko into Toadette. The reason why we don't merge them is because merging them are stupid; they are different characters/games/etc..

This appears to be a problem only with you, CrystalYoshi. The proposal passed, and I believe it did with a vast majority. I'd definitely be willing to re-consider the proposal and revise the outcome if more people express a similar thought as yours, though at this point it seems that no one entirely minds.

I think the real problem is that both resulting articles are rather shoddy. I'm sorry, but I've been rather busy with school and personal projects, so I haven't done much more than split and do a little re-writing. Rather than worry yet again whether or not there's sufficient difference to merit the two Blue Toads and Yellow Toads as different characters, I think we should work to re-write and expand each article to a point where they can stand on their own. At that point we can certainly re-consider whether it's worth keeping them split. Redstar 17:23, 4 April 2010 (EDT)
 * Okay, I guess you're right about that. I was just giving my opinion. I'm just wondering one more thing, though - KS3, what makes you so sure that they are different characters?

mistake
I found a mistake in the text (such as a barrels). Should I turn it into "such as barrels" or "such as a barrel"?

IGN Confirmation
IGN confirmed their nicknames for Yellow and Blue Toad in an article after the game's release, so it's not supposedly. But I have no idea how exactly to modify the portion of the article, or where the article was, as I saw it in early 2010. Does anyone know what to do in this situation? Geekiness is an end, not a means - Bop1996 21:02, 21 March 2011 (EDT)
 * We settled it in the above discussion and also on Talk:Yellow Toad (New Super Mario Bros. Wii). Their official names are simply Blue Toad and Yellow Toad. We also have a source for that in the article and they are named in the forums.
 * No, I'm referring to where it says, "and 'supposedly' named Yvan by IGN people." IGN released an article in early 2010 confirming that these names were indeed the ones the IGN people used, and explained them. My problem is, I can't find the article to source it for the confirmation, as it's over a year old now. Geekiness is an end, not a means - Bop1996 08:16, 22 March 2011 (EDT)

Super Mario 3D Land Appearance
Well the information for this game has been leaked, and if you look at the introduction video you will notice Mario alongside three Toads. One is a Red Toad (perhaps THE Toad?), and the other two are Blue Toad and Yellow Toad. They both seem to mirror each other in the intro in the panicking scene, and are both seen to be running with Mario on his journey to save Peach with the Red Toad. Could this be an appearance of this Blue Toad himself considering that he is a hero for NSMB Wii and there is only one Blue Toad so far? Pichufan93 16:45, 07 October 2011 (EDT)

I think that it is him. Most Toads always leave everything to Mario, Luigi (including Yoshi), but Yellow Toad, Blue Toad, along with a Red Toad have joined Mario. This is probably a hint that they are the same Toads. As for THE Toad, he already appears in the game.--Prince Ludwig 14:09, 15 March 2012 (EDT)
 * Sorry unless Nintendo says it's this particular Blue Toad we can't put it on the article cause that's speculation

Mario Party 9
It's the same as with 3D Land; what source do we have that states the playable Blue Toad from the New Super Mario Bros. games and the one that hosts the minigame stuff in Mario Party 9 are the same character? And what about Yellow Toad as well?

Toa 95 (talk)

I doubt this one as well. We have no information that they are they are the same. Should we just delete the information or keep it or say that they may not be the same Toad. -User:O O


 * Guys, just leave things the way they were.--Prince Ludwig (talk) 14:28, 4 March 2013 (EST)

TPP: The "Blue Toad" in Super Mario 3D World
CREATE CAPTAIN TOAD AND MOVE INFO FROM BLUE TOAD TO TOAD 12-1-0

The game Super Mario 3D World, which is due to be released in the coming days, features a playable character which is considered a Blue Toad. But, there has been much recent discussion throughout the site on whether this Blue Toad is a Blue Toad, or the character Blue Toad. Some points were brought up that as the game included gameplay and character abilities which directly reference Super Mario Bros. 2. In this game, Toad's playable NES sprite was blue, but nevertheless we consider it to be the character Toad. The playable characters seen in Super Mario Bros. 2 include Toad, Peach, Luigi as well as Mario, and this is the same line-up as seen in Super Mario 3D World. So... if we can use SMB2 as a precedent, then why is there a discrepancy? The reason for that is that there was another playable Toad character revealed, known as Captain Toad, who is dressed as the Toad Brigade Captain from the Super Mario Galaxy series. Since this appearance of Toad throughout the Galaxy series was believed to be the character "Toad" himself, then it seemed plausible to also assume that the look-alike which appears in SM3DW is also the character Toad. However, there is currently no official source which backs this claim up. This appearance of the captain is officially known as "Captain Toad", not "Toad Brigade Captain". Even in the Iwata Ask, the similarities between the two were acknowledge, and it was stated by developer Koichi Hayashida, that the idea of Captain Toad was based on the concept from SMG.

Taking a cue from Mario Galaxy, there are games called "Captain Toad's Adventure,"

The apparel and color is irrelevant when taking into consideration how there is a conflicting official source of the identity of this character. This brings me to my next point. In terms of the "Blue Toad", there are no official sources which refer to it as such. It's simply called "Toad" on the official site, as well as the Iwata Asks. So therefore, why is all the info on the "Blue Toad (character)" page, and all links describing this Toad lead to this page? We need to reach a consensus on this controversial matter, and I feel that this proposal would be the best means to solve that.

Proposer: Deadline: December 4, 2013, 23:59 GMT

Create a Captain Toad article, and move the info at Blue Toad (character) to the main Toad article

 * 1) – I personally feel that this is the most logical option. "Captain Toad" is portrayed in a different way to how it was seen in Super Mario Galaxy and the sequel. With the new title of "Captain Toad", along with his new role in the game, I believe it's worthy of an article.
 * 2) Per proposal. I strongly agree with creating a Captain Toad article. As for Toad, we can just say something about how his appearance in this game is based on his appearance in SMB2, though that acts as an excuse. If there's a source confirming this as the reason for the design change, I'd like to see it.
 * 3) Agreed, as some may know I have always considered this to be Toad, due to the fact that there is no official sources saying Blue Toad.
 * 4) Thank goodness someone actually did this, this whole Blue Toad thing has been bugging me to no end. Per proposal.
 * 5) - Per YoshiKong: seems like the most logical course of action.
 * 6) Per YoshiKong, it does make more sense.
 * 7) Good idea, per all.
 * 8) We should retain some of this information regarding Super Mario 3D World on this page to prevent some disagreements (after all, this Toad is a blue-colored Toad). Otherwise, if this Toad = Toad, then we should heed to this.
 * 9) I always thought of "Blue" Toad as Toad himself, and also there's no official source calling him "Blue Toad". It bugs me Captain Toad is merged with the "Toad" article.
 * 10) Per all
 * 11) Per all.
 * 12) Per YoshiKong.

Create a article
This may be an alternative option, as we have the article Blue Toad (Super Mario Galaxy) for the differentiated Blue Toad in that game.


 * 1) I think this is actually most logical, since all it takes is a new article, and it would have more information.

Comments
There's still a debate going on on whether the Blue Toad is THE Toad or not? I'm not really getting the proposal. DonnyKD (talk) 16:52, 22 November 2013 (EST)
 * Many people think it is Blue Toad despite the official sources saying it's the Toad, so this proposal has probably been designed to address that.
 * I'm 98% sure its Blue Toad since Red Toad is already in the game as an entirely separate character. But, whatever anyway. DonnyKD (talk) 17:02, 22 November 2013 (EST)

The Playable Toad is the Toad Character
I know that a proposal has recently passed to address this but I recently checked the European website for Super Mario 3D World and Toad's bio confirms that the playable Toad is the Toad Character, not Blue Toad. Here is the official profile:

http://www.nintendo.co.uk/Games/Wii-U/SUPER-MARIO-3D-WORLD-765385.html

"Toad is the fastest of the four friends, so he’s the best bet in situations where speed is essential. Princess Peach’s loyal servant and Mario’s lifelong buddy, Toad is a plucky little fellow who’s tougher than his size implies!"

07:45, 6 December 2013 (EST)


 * So then, who's Captain Toad? The Toad or just some other Toad? Actually, I'd like to hear a case of a Toad switching their cap, because I never seen that happen. DonnyKD (talk) 11:45, 7 December 2013 (EST)
 * Just because you never saw a Toad have their cap switched before doesn't mean that it can't happen. The point is that the blue Toad is The Toad. He has always been referred to as Toad in all sources including in-game and I provided proof with his European bio that confirms him to be Toad. The only reason you seem to disregard this is simply because Toad is wearing blue. No one knows why they made him blue. Maybe the wanted to make a reference to his SMB2 color sprite or maybe they wanted to give him a much more distinct color from the others, etc. We don't know it's all speculation, but the playable Toad is indeed The Toad.

As for Captain Toad, ever considered that he is a completely different character? They officially call him Captain Toad and as YoshiKong pointed it in his proposal, the Iwata Asks said that the idea of Captain Toad was based on the concept of SMG. He also appears a bit more different from the Toad Brigade Captain, given that he wears an explorers outfit and he carries a large bag on his back. Plus no other sources ever called this Toad as The Toad. Going by this, the playable Toad is The Toad while Captain Toad is a completely different character. The proposal is right from the way this is being handled. 08:39, 8 December 2013 (EST)

Sorry, but I have to question how this link proves SM3DW Toad is The Toad, and not Blue Toad from NSMB games. Canon in Mario games is not most tightly knitted, and it may change depending on how the developers see it (like they did with the Koopalings). Actually, does that description even point it out to be The Toad? I certainly don't see it. Toad species is already known to be loyal to Peach with many Not-The Toads being her servants. As for "Mario’s lifelong buddy", we know from the NSMB games that Blue and Yellow Toads are at least good friends with Mario Bros.. Therefore, that official text could be linked to both The Toad and Blue Toad, and Yellow Toad if he was a solo playable Toad. Which, by the way, would also expand to the lone playable Toad to be called just Toad.

As for Captain Toad, I find it a stretch that Toad Brigade Captain (considered to be The Toad himself,) and Captain Toad would be a different person based on their appearance. The quote from Iwata Asks provided above actually proves the opposite:

Taking a cue from Mario Galaxy, there are games called "Captain Toad's Adventure," in which Captain Toad appears with his memorable little tune that goes "ta-dada-da-, ta-dada-da-".

You know that theme. It's even referred to as Captain Toad's theme. Make whatever you want out of that. SmokedChili 19:33, 29 December 2013 (EST)

in the Spanish versions of Super Mario 3D World: the "Captain Toad" is named as "Jefe de Cuadrilla Toad" which in English means "Toad Brigade Captain" this indicates that Captain Toad is actually the same Toad as was in Super Mario Galaxy. so I think the Toad Brigade Captain is a different character and is not true Toad as the article says.

@SmokedChili: Descriptions such "Peach's loyal servant" has always been used for bios of the The Toad character and guess what? They use the same description again on a character named TOAD. Blue Toad and Yellow Toad have never gotten descriptions like this and "Mario's Lifelong Buddy" only works on Toad because he has been around since the beginning. Attemtping to associate this description with Blue Toad is grasping at straws. All the evidence points to this Toad being the Toad character, but some of you people choose to ignore it just because he wears a blue cap. I already explained above that we don't know why they made his cap blue, but all the sources favor this character to be Toad. In fact, no one can rule out the possibility that Toads can change their clothing to another color as Toad himself has done a few times. Plus official NSMBW and NSMBU websites name the blue Toad as BLUE TOAD. The official website of SM3DW as well as in-game call this one Toad. Why not just call him Blue Toad in this game if it's not the Toad character? Why does Blue Toad use Yellow Toad's fire flower costume when he has his own costume?

You bring a strong point with Captain Toad, however, all sources have ever called this Toad as Captain Toad where as the playable one has been called Toad. In fact, the Iwata asks calls the playable Toad as Toad, like all other sources:

"Talking about cuteness reminded me of how Toad used to look pretty plain, but because he gets cat ears this time his looks cuter overall. That and with how he can quickly dash around, I think he turned into an incredibly appealing character." 19:43, 1 January 2014 (EST)
 * @Smasher345: So if a Toad is called Toad, he is The Toad? Or rather, if a Toad is referred to with The Toad's name, he is The Toad? Which leads to, Toads called Toad are collectively The Toad as long as he has other titles. So I'll look at this from the point: The use of the name of The Toad can be applied to Toads with other names.
 * I've got two points for this. First is from the section of the Iwata Asks we have quoted many times already. There we have this quote by Koizumi: "There's even gameplay this time that features Toad." He's talking about Captain Toad's levels, and this line comes directly after talking about SM3DW Toad. Before that, Iwata stated this: "It may be rude to his fans to say it like this, but Toad is a surprisingly popular character." The point is, both are referred to as Toad. We have no true definiton of which one is The Toad here.
 * Second point comes from here, the official NSMBU site. The story section states that the Mario Bros., Toad and Peach are enjoying a dinner until Bowser and Koopalings attack with their airships. The problem is that The Toad is not there, it's actually Blue Toad and Yellow Toad. Which means that in addition to their usual names, either one can be called The Toad because they are called Toad, trademark included. So which one is it? We may never know. But it again makes the status of The Toad very ambiguous.
 * Then there's this part of the "no other name" issue. We have a source that at least implies The Toad being Toad Brigade Captain, but we also have a source linking the latter to Captain Toad. However, Captain Toad can't be either of them because there are official sources only calling him Captain Toad and because SM3DW Toad is already considered to be The Toad by this same logic. Furthermore, we have games such as Mario Superstar Baseball and its sequel where a Red Toad is given the usual Toad description, and this apparently connects him to The Toad. On the other hand, both Blue and Yellow Toads are given similar text in their NSMBW bio, and neither is The Toad nor called Toad (expect that one time), but this also means they can't be in any other games as a lone playable Toad because The Toad already has all the signs of him filling that role. By this logic, it is okay on this wiki to merge generic or invidual Toads with The Toad as long as the name and profile match, efficiently giving him a name and appearance change in some cases, but the same can't be done for other invidual Toads, because the The Toad's name and profile can only be applied to The Toad, even if a Toad in question looks more like the other invidual Toads than The Toad. Granted, I have brought up evidence that seems to have gone unnoticed with these discussions, but now there's no reason to ignore it either. To further emphasize my point, check the "Game World" section of the European SM3DW site you linked. The Toad House description calls the Toad living there Toad. Does that make him The Toad? SmokedChili (Talk) (Thoughts) 08.25, 2 January 2014 (EST)