Talk:Boomerang Bro

Mario & Luigi series formatting
Due to the short amount of information in the Paper Mario series section, the Mario & Luigi section is formatted badly. Simply leaving it as-is results in a very crowded look, but [br clear=all] results in too much white space. To get around this, I added 18 empty lines between the two sections, giving the page a clean formatting-look when published. I was wondering if this was okay, since it's currently the only way to make it look so good. If it is, I'd like this to serve as a warning so people won't remove the lines thinking it's a mistake. Redstar 10:36, 8 December 2009 (EST)

actually, their shells are blue,but on the picture in the main article their shell is black.the pic is too old.

Separate M&L:SS Boomerang Bro.?
They look nothing like normal Hammer Bros. (tall and skinny, with sunglasses, no boots, brown boomerangs, and purple domed helmets with sprout growing out of the top...), so I think we should give them their own article to reflect the fact that they're a different species. This is going by the same logic that split Dark Koopatrol (Super Paper Mario) from Dark Koopatrol, which led to similar splits of Dark Paratroopa and Dark Koopa. I'll make a Talk Page Proposal if I have to, but if we can come to an informal consensus, I think it'd be faster (the aforementioned Koopatrol pages were split without need of a TPP). - 00:28, 19 February 2011 (EST)
 * I think they are like Troopeas; they are Bean Bean versions of them except their name remains unchanged from the normal species. When I first encountered them, I didn't think that they are a Boomerang Bro.

Since no one opposed, I split them. - 13:53, 11 March 2011 (EST)

Merge Boomerang bros M&L:SS to Boomerang Bro.
I feel this is necessary since the Japanese name for both simply calls them Boomerang Bro. also they share the same attack and it doesnt make sense to have them as two seperate species of the same name since we don't have anything else like that

Proposer: Deadline: 13 April 2011 23:59 (GMT)

Merge

 * 1) per my proposal
 * 2) Per him! Yay!
 * 3) Per proposal, also isn't the  M&L:SS Hammer Bro. in the Hammer Bro. article?
 * 4) Per all. This isn't like the proposal merging L33t Hammer Broz. to the Hammer bro. These Boomerange Bros. act the same way and are not notable Boomerange Bros.
 * 5) - They look similar enough to warrant being in the same article. Besides, it's more efficient to note that they may have been intended to be different species than for one to have to click to another page simply to find info on a ridiculously similar enemy.

Keep Split

 * 1) - Per what I said in the section right above this one. ("They look nothing like normal Hammer Bros. [...] so I think we should give them their own article to reflect the fact that they're a different species. This is going by the same logic that split Dark Koopatrol (Super Paper Mario) from Dark Koopatrol, which led to similar splits of Dark Paratroopa and Dark Koopa.")
 * 2) - Per Walkazo.
 * 3) Per Walkazo.
 * 4) Per Walkazo's comments.
 * 5) Per all.
 * 6) Per Walkazo.
 * 7) Per Walkazo.
 * 8) Per Walkazo.
 * 9) Per Walkazo.
 * 10) Per above.
 * 11) Per Walkazo.
 * 12) These Boomerang Bros are completly different to normal Boomerang Bros.

Comments
sorry if i did anything wrong im kinda new at this

But those actually are different species since they have different names and please tell me is there an official source that says they are a different species and if not you must assume that they are the same sharing the same name and attacks
 * They have different names in the French and Italian versions. Besides, just because something has the same attack doesn't automatically make it the same thing if it looks completely different: that's when you've gotta use common sense, rather than blindly going by names alone. If it quacks like a duck but looks like a peacock, odds are, it's not really a duck, and assuming it is one despite the obvious differences would be a bad idea. -

Really so the official Japanese name which is mentioned as the proof in of point in a number of other proposals doesn't matter here is what your saying if the Japanese didn't intend for it to be the same species why would they give it the same name also your logic means nothing here since they share the same name in japan while the dark koopatrol has a totally different name in japan that means Shadow Koopatrol so tell me if it has the same name and has the same attacks why would it be a different species
 * Generally the Japanese names are the more discerning ones, which is why we keep citing them when we want to split things that look different but have the same English name, but that's not always the case. For example, Para-Beetles and Parabuzzies have the same name in Japan (pata metto), but they're obviously different species (namely, one has legs, one doesn't), which is why we look no further than the English names and give them separate pages. Whether it's from NCL, NOA or NOE, we use the naming convention that makes the most sense given everything we know about the species. As for why it's a different species despite the name and attack, it's because it looks different, as I keep saying. You want a RL example? European blackbirds and North American blackbirds are both called blackbirds, and they attack things by pecking at them, but they're completely different kinds of birds if you look at their body shape and diet and other such details. OR, were you asking why Nintendo would have intended them to be different species even though they gave them the same name (in some regions)? BLOF already answered that question: same reason why Koopa Troopas were replaced by Troopeas (and Lakitus by Lakipeas, Spinies by Sharpeas, Paratroopas by Paratroopeas and Scaratroopeas, etc.) - to give the Beanbean Kingdom its own quirky, unique set of critters; no idea why Nintendo got lazy and didn't give the Hammer Bro. equivalents new names too (in some regions), but that's no excuse for us to be lazy too, now is it? - 22:35, 30 March 2011 (EDT)

But your still overlooking the fact that they have the same name according to every official source unlike all those other things you just mentioned and just because they look different does not make them a different species otherwise we should split the hammer bros from super mario rpg because they look different from regular hammer bros
 * No, you're overlooking the fact that I clearly stated that "they have different names in the French and Italian versions" in my first comment. If it wasn't official, it wouldn't be on the articles, so at least a couple folks affiliated with NOE (or possibly NOA: I'm not sure where the French came from) officially think they're different. Lots of species have small differences in different games, but the M&L:SS Boomerang Bros. are significantly different: they have sprouts growing out of their heads, for one thing. Also, the changes can't just be chocked up to style like the SMRPG designs, since the M&L:SS Hammer Bros. (which were part of the Koopa Troop) look very much like Hammer Bros. found in all the other games, and not at all like the M&L:SS non-Koopa Troop Boomerang Bros. Every other game that has both species depicts them as being nearly identical, so what would be the point of changing it up so drastically in M&L:SS if they're not meant to be different? And in fact, the Hammer Bros. are a bit fatter in M&L:SS than other games, which could have been done to make them contrast with the skinny Beanish Boomerang Bros. to an even greater extent. Point is, the different Boomerang Bro. design was clearly done on purpose, like all the other Beanish Koopa-lookalikes, whereas the same-name thing was almost certainly a goof, which was in fact caught and corrected in at least two translations. - 23:52, 30 March 2011 (EDT)

You know this how which official source other than the French and Italian translation says that they are a different species because the two biggest video game markets North America and Japan where the game was made call it boomerang bro and never once imply that it is a different species also all you'r arguments are speculative at best and i might like to add that it could just be that the different types of Hammer Bros. might not be different since they do not have different Japanese names unlike every other species you have mentioned
 * I got the info from the original Boomerang Bro. article: ask whoever added the names originally where they got the info if you really want to know, but second-guessing the database is a bad way to go about arguing your point. The size of the game markets doesn't matter: the French and Italian versions are just as valid as the Japanese and English versions. Their completely different appearance is a pretty solid implication that they're a different kind of Boomerang Bro., if you ask me. The important bits are not speculative: it is a fact that the M&L:SS Boomerang Bros. look different from every other game's Boomerang Bro., and it is a fact that they look different from the M&L:SS Hammer Bros. which do look like standard Hammer Bro., and it is also a fact that all the other major Koopa species have Beanish variants, to which the Boomerang Bros. do bear a resemblance. Ignoring all that in favour of "they're named the same and both use boomerangs" is a far worse analysis than coming to the logical conclusion that the M&L:SS Boomerang Bros. are different, as far as providing our readers with accurate coverage goes, at least. It's not speculation if it's common sense. You have to look at the context, not just the words: if they weren't both called "Boomerang Bros.", no one would try to say they're the same species, because they are not the same - except in name: take that away, and there's no problem; that's what the French and Italian folks did, giving us a conveniently official excuse to follow the facts and do the same. Also, the Para-Beetle and Parabuzzy example I mentioned earlier don't have different Japanese names: maybe you should read my comments a bit more thoroughly before making all these accusations. -  00:55, 31 March 2011 (EDT)

Alright but what about the two king Boo's in Italy and North America it's called king Boo but in Japan it's called Boss Boo but on that one you trust that Japan didn't make a mistake but here where both Boomerang bros are simply called Boomerang Bros Italy is right why what makes this time different and maybe the reason there no different species is because unlike all the other species that were dubbed beanish who are important species Boomerang bros really aren't that important

On one hand, we have Spookum and Snifit merged. On the other hand, we have King Boo and Boss Teresa split. What to do, what to do?

Yeah i know exactly how you feel it's confusing isnt it
 * A lot of the SMRPG enemies were given different names in the English version, but since they look the same as the "corresponding" enemies found in all other games, we went with the Japanese names that said they were indeed the same things. In the King Boo example, the SMS boss looks completely different than the King Boo seen in all other games, so we went with the Japanese names that said they were, in fact, different characters. For the Parabuzzy and Para-Beetle situation, they look like different things, so we went with the names that say they're different things, which happened to be from the English translation that time, rather than the Japanese. In this situation, the Boomerang Bros. also look like different things, so once again, we should go with the names that say they're different things, but this time it's not the English or Japanese versions that provides those names, but the French and Italian ones. In every case, we're assessing all the information we have about the subjects in question, and choosing the naming convention that makes the most sense, whether it's saying the things are the same (like SMRPG), or different (like the other examples). It doesn't matter which region the names come from: it's all Nintendo, so it's all official and perfectly valid; no one office is any more important than any other, nor is any one team more or less reliable than any other. Going with the Japanese names a couple times doesn't mean we always have to "trust" them, and not going with Italy on the King Boo issue doesn't mean they'll never be right. How the different localizations named different species in different games shouldn't influence what we do about this situation: it's a case-by-case process. - 20:57, 1 April 2011 (EDT)

I skimmed the above argument and found little with what I have to say. As such, I'll say it and probably be ridiculed later, as you have probably already said it above. Here we go: I think they look pretty similar. Helmet-wearing turtles that throw boomerangs. One's rather taller than the other, but they are quite similar in all other aspects. Also, I would like to point out the fact that the main Bro's article says next to nothing about the SS Bro. I think, when there are enemies so similar, we should at least mention that there is an identically-named, similar-looking, boomerang-tossing turtle in a different game. Can we at least make some sort of reference within the article that explains this fact? Which leads me to my next point. Why on earth do we need have two boomerang-toting reptiles on two different pages that have nearly the exact same page names? It seems illogical. We have a Boomerang Bro. and a Boomerang Bro. as separate pages. I will also point out that there are other enemies that are quite different in appearance but have the same name and remain in the same article. Dry Bones, for example, looks quite strange in SS, but remain on the same page as the Dry Bones of other games. That is all.

i think that if we do keep them separate i think we should use either the French or Italian names if that's what your basing it off of
 * No, that's against policy: we're an English wiki - that's why we don't call the SMS King Boo "Bosu Teresa". Block Partier: I agree that it's a good idea to have a M&L:SS section linking to this page with (like how we deal with the King Boo articles): not including one right from the start was an oversight on my part, which I have now fixed. I disagree about the Bros. looking similar enough to leave them together: as I keep saying, normal Boomerang Bros. do not have plants growing out of their heads (I could ignore the other discrepancies in their appearance, but not this one). The head-sprouts are the only significant difference between the other Beanish Koopas and the mainstream enemies (Troopeas and normal Koopas; Paratroopeas and Scaratroopeas from Paratroopas; Lakipeas and Lakitus), suggesting the Boomerang Bro. is also meant to be a Beanbean Kingdom equivalent. Also, the Boomerang Bros. helmets are quite unlike the M&L:SS Hammer Bros.'s helmets, which resemble normal Hammer.Boomerang Bro. helmets, so it's not just a stylistic change, which one could argue is the case with the Dry Bones (although the French gave them a different name too, so I personally wouldn't object to splitting them out as well). I'd also like to point out the other naming issue afecting the M&L:SS Dry Bones: there's the bunch found in Hoohoo Mountains, but then there's also a group in Teehee Valley, which look different and have different Japanese, French and German names, and were given a separate article despite being called Dry Bones in English. If we used our discretion and went with the different names for the second species of Dry Bones, why not for the Boomerang Bros.? In both cases, the separated thing is similar to the parent species, but not quite the same, which was officially acknowledged in a couple regions, giving us legitimate grounds to split them. It is not illogical to have two articles for two things that are not the same, even if the differences are minimal: a lot of enemies in a lot of games are similar like that, especially in the RPGs (i.e. Terrapins and Terra Cottas; all the Dark versions of SPM enemies; Dark Koopa/Dark Paratroopa and other such PM series pairs for which the wings or lack thereof is the only difference; gold enemies in the M&L series, etc.). -  23:08, 2 April 2011 (EDT)
 * I was unaware that they Dry Bones enemy had been split; the last time I checked was back when I made the article featured, and I simply put the different "species," so to speak, in the same article. If given the option, I would say to merge the similar Dry Bones into the same article as well. I disagree with each of your points on appearance, but as they are subjective, I find no reason to continue arguing about it. Lastly, I am split on the idea of merging the Dark enemies in SPM with their PM/TTYD relatives; Half of me would love to merge them, the other half wants them to remain split. Since that's not the issue here, though, I won't go into it. I rest my case.