MarioWiki:Proposals

Writing guidelines
None at the moment.

A section for passed proposals
At the time of writing this, there are 15 proposals marked with "gray"/"grey" in the proposal archives. These are proposals that have passed, but whose changes have yet to be implemented yet. A few of these legitimately go back years, and yet they still remain grey. While the onus is on the proposer to make the necessary changes, there are any number of valid reasons for them not doing it yet. Regardless, the end result is that there are a bunch of changes that should be done. However, it's hard to find them when they're all buried in the archives without any easy-to-notice markers, and even if you occasionally go through the archives to find them, you'll come across some that you simply don't know enough about to properly implement. With that in mind, I propose a simple solution to this: on the main proposal page, create a section that lists every proposal that has yet to be passed. Each entry would provide a link to the original proposal, essentially the same as what we do with passed talk page proposals. On that note, I also propose to move any passed talk page proposals from the "List of talk page proposals" section to this new section to make things consistent and because frankly, it's ugly to have passed proposals mixed with proposals that are still running. The entries may also list the dates that the proposals passed (older proposals should probably take more priority) and the original proposers (to allow for quick communication with them if needed), but that can be discussed later.

In short, I propose make a new section on the proposal page that lists every proposal that has passed, but has yet to be implemented.

Proposer: Deadline: December 2, 2017, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) Per proposal.
 * 2) Per proposal
 * 3) Per proposal.
 * 4) Per proposal.
 * 5) Sounds like a useful idea, per proposal.
 * 6) Per proposal.
 * 7) - Per proposal.
 * 8) Okay, this sounds like a good idea, so count me in. But how are we gonna put this into action?
 * 9) Why not? Per proposal.
 * 10) Per all
 * 11) You can count me in on this one.
 * 12) Per all.

Comments
Would it be a good idea to include the proposer's name and the proposal's passed date? We don't include either of those with the current TPPs, so I'm on the fence about it. 15:28, 25 November 2017 (EST)
 * We should include those in the first place, so yes. 15:40, 25 November 2017 (EST)

I was honestly thinking about doing a proposal like this myself, but in broader terms. The way the archive is set up is jumbled, even though it's separated by year. I was thinking it could instead be separated by the proposal's outcome, i.e. all the passed are in one section, the failed in another, etc. That way it'd be easier to find the proposal you're looking for, rather than guess and checking through the numerous years. 15:58, 25 November 2017 (EST)
 * Personally, if I'm looking for a specific proposal, I'm doing so by topic (i.e. CTRL+F) with no idea whether it passed or failed, and I imagine that a lot of people use the archive without being completely aware of the proposal's outcome. Besides, how would you handle proposals that themselves failed, but whose changes were later put into effect (and vice-versa)? 16:11, 25 November 2017 (EST)
 * That would be the "etc." thing, every type of proposal would have its own section. But say you don't know if the proposal passed or failed, and you don't know the name of it nor when it ended. You just want to check to see if the proposal exists, to see if it's still in effect or if it needs to be tried again. imo, it'd be easier to sort through a section of similarly concluded proposals rather than a rainbow of randomness. They'd still be sorted by date within the section, however (oldest on top, newest on bottom). 16:43, 25 November 2017 (EST)
 * How are you searching for something if you don't even know its name? Heck, not even any keywords? 16:45, 25 November 2017 (EST)
 * Whoop, meant to delete that because it sounded stupid to me, too. Yeah, CTRL+F would work with keywords, but my color seems like a better assortment to me. I guess it wouldn't make much of a difference, but it'd be easier to look through. 16:48, 25 November 2017 (EST)

@Lcross: Literally in the proposal. 22:25, 25 November 2017 (EST)

"With that in mind, I propose a simple solution to this: on the main proposal page, create a section that lists every proposal that has yet to be passed". This confuses me a bit, by "has yet to be passed" do you mean proposals that have already passed but are yet to be implemented? Maybe it's just me getting confused lol but I wanted to be sure. -- 22:06, 28 November 2017 (EST)
 * Nah, that's my bad. I meant that proposals that had yet to be implemented would be moved there. They have passed, but nobody's gotten around to doing anything about them. 22:30, 28 November 2017 (EST)

Mario Kart series Truck articles
Following the recent creation of the Bus and Car (obstacle) articles, the next required article is the Truck article, however, after some discussion with, we are currently unsure how to go about covering it. While there are some Trucks which function similarly to Cars and Buses, simply causing the player to spin out, the returning Toad's Turnpike in Mario Kart 8 now includes two types of trucks which have different functions. One of these is the purple truck with a surfboard on the back, which players can use as a Ramp, and is noticeably absent in Battle Mode, and the other is the larger truck which also has a ramp on it, as well as a Dash Panel and a Glider Panel, again missing in battle mode. As Mushroom Car, Bomb-Car and Car all have different functions and don't share an article, I personally think that these should go the same way, however Mario jc has suggested that they should all be included in one option. There are three potential ways we go about covering this:
 * Option 1: Cover it all in one article. Make one article for all Trucks, and cover different types within each game's respective section, similar to the Mario Kart Wii section in the Car article.
 * Option 2: Create three different articles. Make separate articles for regular Trucks, Ramp Trucks and Glider Trucks (Though the article's titles may change).
 * Option 3: Create two separate articles. One for regular Trucks, and the other to cover both types of Ramp Truck (Again, the title may change), with differences described on the page.
 * Option 4: Do nothing. Self-explanatory, don't make any articles whatsoever.

Proposer: Deadline: December 3, 2017, 23:59 GMT

Option 2

 * 1) My preferred option, per proposal.
 * 2) Per proposal (and we probably should give Glider Panel its own page).
 * 3) Per all.
 * 4) - Per all. (Why don't we have a Glider Panel page?)
 * 5) All three of these trucks serve different gameplay purposes, have a unique design (not merely just a texture difference) about them, and thus should get their own article.
 * 6) Per all.
 * 7) Per all, including the "Glider Panel" article. Does that mean we should create a article for the "Antigravity Panel" as well?
 * 8) I've reconsidered, and I think this is the better option. Per all.
 * 9) They have different purposes alright and that's a per all.
 * 10) Even though the ramps for tricking and those for gliding might look similar, they are actually very different from a gameplay and outcome point of view, so the player must approach all three types of trucks differently, not to say that said trucks are different in appearance.

Option 3

 * 1) Glider ramp doesn't have its own article, so I'm leaning here. Anyways, "conjecturally-named truck with ramp on it" sounds like it should be on one article, regardless of the surface of said ramp. If we're going to describe a three-wheeled pickup truck, a semi truck, a moving van-like vehicle, and an oil tanker on one generic "truck" article, why would the trucks with ramps on them require two just because one is a ramp and one has a glider thing on it? Seems like a waste to me.

Comments
Glider ramp probably doesn't have its own article for the same reason that every behavior Cheep Cheep is capable of in Super Mario Bros. 3 and Yoshi's Island doesn't have an article each. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 17:17, 26 November 2017 (EST)
 * False equivalence, especially considering how both appear in the same game under different names with different appearances. 17:19, 26 November 2017 (EST)
 * I'm not saying I agree with that logic, I just don't particularly think it needs its own article, given it is seemingly covered both under ramp and glider. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 17:29, 26 November 2017 (EST)
 * Doesn't that logic apply to everything? There's a certain amount of overlap between plenty of subjects. The point of giving it a unique article is that the writing can focus on it and add any needed detail. 17:39, 26 November 2017 (EST)
 * What, in that they're blue and activate the glider? Do we need an article on the single blue mushroom trampoline that does the same thing in Mushroom Gorge? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 17:41, 26 November 2017 (EST)
 * And yet Mushroom Car and Bomb-Car are fine with you? 17:44, 26 November 2017 (EST)
 * One is derivative of a Bob-omb and the other's basically a vehicular ? Block in the shape of a mushroom, so yes. And before you ask, Wiggler Bus is different from other buses in its segmented and size-changing nature, making it more like a road-based train. But this seems more like splitting pink/blue Shy Guys or green Cheep Cheeps or the red bright magenta Paratroopas from Yoshi's Safari. Trucks with ramps on them are still trucks with ramps on them, particularly if the variation only appeared in one game. (And no, that gutter trash remake doesn't count as separate.) Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 17:50, 26 November 2017 (EST)
 * Personally, I'm all for a Glider Ramp article- I often try to link to one, and I think it really should be separated from the Dash Panel article- it doesn't actually give a speed boost, unlike the other ones. The Mushroom can probably be included in that article- I thought it just had a Glide Ramp on, not that the Glider launched from bouncing on the Mushroom (I rarely take that route), but hey, you learn something new every day! Information in the article can include courses it appears on and their locations, design and minor design changes between games, the Mushroom, and other uses of the ramp (The truck we're trying to sort out now), etc. Time for another proposal! BBQ Turtle (talk) 17:52, 26 November 2017 (EST)
 * But you see, then we're back to square one: including the information for the vaguely-derived thing on the same article, but this time, there's even more differences. Now tell me, do the Ramp Truck and Glider panel trucks have official names? ALso, what about the three-wheeled pickup trucks from Wuhu Resort? Trucks aren't all semi trucks, you know. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 17:56, 26 November 2017 (EST)
 * No, they do not have official names that I know of, but they may do so that I'm just not aware of. I'm still undecided about how to go about the pick up trucks in Wuhu Island Loop, but I'm probably going to put them in the same article with all of the other trucks, along with the oil tankers, and describe the differences in the individual games' sections. BBQ Turtle (talk) 11:54, 27 November 2017 (EST)
 * Also, I've now set up the proposal for splitting the Glider Panel from Dash Panel, for everyone who wants to put their thoughts in on that. BBQ Turtle (talk) 12:32, 28 November 2017 (EST)
 * They have different purposes, but not different enough. They're trucks with ramps on the back, and you'll find that those articles will either be smaller than necessary, with the split obfuscating a few things, or there will be a large amount of restated information. Also, weren't there ramp trucks without the dash panel and some with? Would those both just go under the conjecturally-named "ramp truck?" They'd seem different enough if we're splitting the glider one, as one gives a boost and one doesn't. Of course, I may be misremembering something, but my point still stands that this will do nothing other than needlessly inflate the number of articles, a la "Boo (Paper Mario Series)," "Mouser (The Super Mario Bros. Super Show!)," and the thankfully-cancelled "Ukiki (Yoshi's Island)." Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 22:00, 28 November 2017 (EST)
 * OK, firstly, describing several different trucks with the same purpose but that look different in the same article is the best way to go forward, as if we make separate articles for each of those, it will be a waste. The two ramp trucks, however, do not serve the exact same purpose, they differ between one another, and each have a different gameplay purpose, unlike the oil tanker and pick up. Also, no, the Ramp Trucks are the purple surfboard ones, they don't come with Dash Panels. All of the Dash Panels are on the Glider Ramp Trucks. And the difference is not only giving a boost, but activating the Glider, and this is the only way in the course to do it. May I ask what you mean by the "Moving-van like vehicle"? BBQ Turtle (talk) 02:29, 29 November 2017 (EST)
 * Pretty sure I remember things that look vaguely like Uhaul vans in Toad's Turnpike 64. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 03:09, 29 November 2017 (EST)

By the way, if we have to find the names of these trucks, the PRIMA guide of Mario Kart 8 names the glider trucks dash panel ramp trucks, the pickup trucks with the surfboard smaller vehicles with surfboards and the normal trucks cargo trucks, in terms of internal names, their names are CarrierCar, CarSurf and TruckA, respectively.--Mister Wu (talk) 10:14, 29 November 2017 (EST)
 * So, is there no TruckB? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 10:24, 29 November 2017 (EST)
 * @Mister Wu: Thank you for finding the official names, seeing as we now have official names for all of them, I'll name the articles that. We'll stick with "Cargo Truck", "Dash Panel Ramp Truck" and "Small Vehicle with Surfboard" I think, unless anyone knows of any other sources for the Cargo Truck from earlier games which are potentially more inclusive for the other trucks (Though technically, the three wheeled yellow pick up truck could carry cargo). Will you be able to put in the references for those when the articles are done? BBQ Turtle (talk) 11:56, 29 November 2017 (EST)
 * I can add the citation, keep in mind however that unlike the names of the objects like Dash Panels, Ramps and Glide Ramps, which come from a short list of the objects themselves, these names come from a description of the layout of N64 Toad's Turnpike, not from a list of all the objects in it. While of course they are better than nothing and they also should be good names for the cargo trucks and dash panel ramps trucks, in the case of the pickup trucks with surfborad it sounds awkward as it wasn't intended to be their official name, so other official sources are more than welcome!--Mister Wu (talk) 20:29, 29 November 2017 (EST)
 * I think possibly the original intent for no TruckB is that they planned to have different truck varieties and models, but ran out of time and stuck with texture changes instead. 13:43, 29 November 2017 (EST)

Removals
None at the moment.

Changes
None at the moment.

Delete certain numbered Mario Kart redirects
Looks like someone went a little redirect-happy since the release of Mario Kart 7. There are several numbered Mario Kart redirects that just don't seem necessary. I get the purpose of them: since MK7 means Mario Kart 7, then MK1 should mean Super Mario Kart, right? Since any Mario Kart title prior to Mario Kart 7 don't actually have a number in their title (other than Mario Kart 64, but that was a system number), these redirects are pointless. The MK64, MK7, MK8, and MK8DX redirects will remain because they do have a number in their title, but everything else should go.


 * Affected redirects
 * MK1 (Super Mario Kart)
 * Mario Kart 1
 * MK2 (Mario Kart 64)
 * Mario Kart 2
 * MK3 (Mario Kart: Super Circuit)
 * Mario Kart 3
 * MK4 (Mario Kart: Double Dash!!)
 * Mario Kart 4
 * MK5 (Mario Kart DS)
 * Mario Kart 5
 * MK6 (Mario Kart Wii)
 * Mario Kart 6

Proposer: Deadline: November 30th, 2017, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) - Per me.
 * 2) I don't think I've seen anyone actually refer to these Mario Kart titles as their numbered variations, like ever. No one ever calls Mario Kart Wii "Mario Kart 6", they call it "Mario Kart Wii", because it's far easier for our average player to remember the system it is on rather than the order the Mario Kart games were released on (I'll guess the order Mario Kart: Super Circuit is on, is it the third one or the fourth one?). On this case, knowing the exact order of the Mario Kart title means that you should already have prior information of Mario titles here and thus, you don't need the redirect. These redirects are pointless and I think they should be deleted. On the flipside, we don't call Windows versions prior to 7 like, Windows XP having a Windows 6 redirect or anything, and this shouldn't apply here.
 * 3) Per Baby Luigi. Nobody thinks of the non-numbered Mario Kart games by what number installment they are. If people don't know the actual title, then they are going to remember the game by what system it was for, since none of the games were numbered prior to 7, each system only has one Mario Kart game, several of them are even named after the system, and returning tracks are labeled by system in later games. There is absolutely no reason to expect a newcomer or outsider to be familiar first and foremost with what order the games came in, aside from the ones that are actually numbered.
 * 4) I strongly agree with Baby Luigi's reasoning. No Mario Kart games until 7 were numbered, except 64, but still it refers to the Nintendo 64, not the 64th game in the series. Also kind of agree with 7feetunder's system remark in the vote above mine. In other words, per all.
 * 5) Per Baby Luigi.
 * 6) Even if there was a case where someone remembered the installment number of a game but not the actual name, it shouldn't be too hard to go to Mario Kart (series) and figure it out themselves. Well, there goes the only oppose I had...
 * 7) I get the numbers of them muddled up sometimes, and if people are unfamiliar with the series they are unlikely to know many of the numbers except for the blatantly obvious ones. Per all.
 * 8) I never really thought about it this way, but I did like to think of titles like Mario Kart DS as Mario Kart 5, and Mario Kart Wii as Mario Kart 6. However, I got to agree with Baby Luigi's reasoning here; it only makes sense that we would recognize games by their system and not by the order that they were released.
 * 9) Per all, especially Baby Luigi.
 * 10) Per all
 * 11) Per all.
 * 12) Per all on this one. We have Mario Kart 7, Mario Kart 8, and Mario Kart 8 Deluxe.

Oppose

 * 1) To be honest, I only remember Mario Kart DS as the fifth game in the series and not by it's actual title. It's situational, but I do think that these redirects have value.
 * 2) per Time Turner.
 * 3) Since Mario Kart 7 and Mario Kart 8 are official names and, keep the unofficial names as redirects.
 * 4) Per all. Saying "nobody" thinks of them in that manner is like saying "nobody" liked Mario Kart 8 original. It's just not true, and not anyone's position to say.
 * 5) Sorry Alex95, but I can't support. Reason? Per all.
 * 6) I know it's a bit late to switch sides, but I've been thinking about this a long time.  According to Redirects, "If there's even a small chance that a redirect will help someone, it's not useless."  And while there may only be one person in the world who calls them that, that's more then zero; hence, they're not useless.  Per all.
 * 7) If someone doesn't know what the 3rd Mario Kart is, for example, he will type Mario Kart 3 and fall on the page of the 3rd Mario Kart so we should keep this.

Comments
@Time Turner: You used the wrong word in your vote. It's supposed to be "its", not "it's". "It's" means "it is", while "its" means "of it". - 13:36, 23 November 2017 (EST)
 * ಠ_ಠ -- 14:08, 23 November 2017 (EST)
 * Its very unfortunate that you might effect that comment (yeah alex95 it's "affected" redirects not "effected"). 15:29, 23 November 2017 (EST)
 * Fixed. 15:33, 23 November 2017 (EST)

@Doc von Schmeltwick: I stand fairly strong by my statement that because the extremely low amount of people who do use it, to the point it may as well be nonexistent, we may as well create redirects for misspellings of Mario games instead, as they'll be more useful for our readers than these redirects, which has never ever been officially coined by Nintendo, not in their games themselves, and we don't create redirect articles for Super Smash Bros. 1, 2, and 3 either (I just found out that we DID create redirects for Smash Bros. articles and they SHOULD get deleted as well), despite having redirects for Smash 4. Searching "Mario Kart 3" on DuckDuckGo has led to only one accurate result and that's from Wikipedia, who has also created a redirect page that I don't agree with either. In Google search, Mario Kart: Super Circuit isn't listed at all, with the first result directly being our Mario Kart series article and the Mario Kart series article being on Wikipedia. The same story happens with the rest of the Mario Kart games. On the other hand, Smash 4/Super Smash Bros. 4 may not be the official title, but searching it on Google actually yields substantial results that users are looking for, because it's a term that's actually used, unlike Mario Kart 3. 14:25, 24 November 2017 (EST)
 * clearly i'm just chopped liver 14:30, 24 November 2017 (EST)
 * "If there's even a small chance that a redirect will help someone, it's not useless."-Redirects. Ah, I see, breaking the rules. Tsk tsk tsk. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 03:39, 26 November 2017 (EST)
 * Yes, search traffic and results say that you are. 14:34, 24 November 2017 (EST)
 * Rules are meant to be broken and honestly, with a vague interpretation like that, the policy page directly contradicts itself with restricting the creation redirects at the same time. 04:25, 26 November 2017 (EST)
 * I don't see why we should knowingly and willingly make it harder for any number of people to access information, no matter how small that number may be. Yes, there's Mario Kart (series) as an alternative, but that's not immediately obvious, especially with new readers. 14:36, 24 November 2017 (EST)
 * "Meant to be broken," eh? Well then you shouldn't have a problem with me spamming messages making fun of your choice in favorite character on your talk page, because surely the rules in our courtesy policy were meant to be broken! I'm saying that's a weak argument by all accounts. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 04:52, 26 November 2017 (EST)
 * We already do this by not creating every single redirect that we could think of for a particular game simply because we might leave a minority of people who do refer to the game like that (Super Mario Wii redirects to Super Mario Galaxy, but Super Mario Wii U, Super Mario 3DS, Super Mario Bros. 3DS, Super Mario GameCube, Super Mario GCN, Super Mario 1, Super Mario 2 (which redirects to Super Mario Bros. 2 and not Super Mario Sunshine), and more examples not listed do not exist as redirects for a reason, it's because no one refers to the games like that, and frankly, Super Mario Wii should be deleted as well, because there are TWO Super Mario Wii games), and especially what we did with the Leet Hammer Bros. article. 14:44, 24 November 2017 (EST)
 * We don't have those redirects not because nobody refers to them by those titles, but because there's potential confusion as to what the reader may be looking for. Redirects even mentions this: "First mario game" is an unnecessary redirect specifically because there are multiple games that could be considered the "first". These redirects do not have that issue, not when all of the games have a clear, sequential order. Also, pardon, but I don't understand your point about the Hammer Bros. 14:48, 24 November 2017 (EST)
 * That still doesn't explain why we don't have redirects on Super Mario *system name*. Also, the Hammer Bros. example was just an example on why we don't have redirects for every potential combination of name, despite your argument being that there will always be a small amount of people who will use said name and that we will willingly leave them out when we delete redirects. 14:51, 24 November 2017 (EST)
 * Um, Leet Hammer Bros. and Leet Hammer Bros are redirects. Even L33t Hammer Bro. Obviously this is a bad example. 14:54, 24 November 2017 (EST)
 * The redirects for those Hammer Bros. were ridiculous, going beyond anything that a reader would reasonably search. I don't think it's unreasonable for someone to remember a game by its numbered place in the series, again especially considering how the Mario Kart games have an obvious sequential order. Also, "Super Mario 3DS" could refer to New Super Mario Bros. 2 or Super Mario Maker for Nintendo 3DS or Super Mario 3D Land, and so on and so forth. 14:56, 24 November 2017 (EST)
 * How are they ridiculous? They outright call themselves "L33T HAMM3R BROZ." in game. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 03:36, 26 November 2017 (EST)
 * Oh. I see. As for the reason why Super Mario Wii redirects to Super Mario Galaxy, it is because it is actually named that in a book, although it was saying the game was called that in South Korea, but it is that way nevertheless.It even goes as far as mentioning Super Mario Wii on the Super Mario World page. 15:10, 24 November 2017 (EST)

I tagged Super Mario Wii with. - 16:03, 24 November 2017 (EST)
 * Why? 16:05, 24 November 2017 (EST)
 * Because it is an "unnecessary and ambiguous redirect". No one refers to SMG like that, and it can also refer to NSMBW and SMG2. - 16:25, 24 November 2017 (EST)
 * Oops, didn't see Yoshi the SSM's comment. - 16:26, 24 November 2017 (EST)