Talk:Paper Mario: Color Splash bestiary

Quotes from Shelled Enemies Flipped by POW Block
As I was playing Paper Mario: Color Splash a while back, I noticed that some enemies such as Spinies, Spike Tops, and the like, have other lines of dialog that they use when they get flipped onto their backs when a POW Block card is used. Should another category on dialog be created for this, or would it still classify as if it were in its shell?296lmn20 (talk) 15:42, 24 December 2016 (EST)296lmn20
 * Good observation. We can call those "Flipped".-- 18:21, 24 December 2016 (EST)

Missing enemies
I know that this bestiary is still under construction, but I just want to point out that both the Fire Bro 8-Stack and the Gold Shy Guy are not listed on it. -- 18:09, 5 February 2017 (EST)
 * My bad. Not wanting to replay the game myself quite yet, I watched the Mario Party Legacy play through to put the list together. When/where is the earliest you encounter these two enemies?-- 09:44, 6 February 2017 (EST)
 * Well, the thing is, I haven't reached far enough yet, and I watched Mario Party Legacy as a way to get all the quotes I found. So I have no idea either, I just know they exist. I will try to figure out soon, though. -- 14:59, 6 February 2017 (EST)
 * OK, I just learned Gold Shy Guys appear in Fort Cobalt, near where Silver Shy Guys are found. -- 15:11, 6 February 2017 (EST)

I found out that Gold Shy Guys also appear during Wendy's battle, but I can not find any sources with the Fire Bro 8-Stack on them at all. Also, I learned that the Fuzzy Stack appears in Redpepper Volcano, not just Toad Trainworks. -- 20:58, 6 February 2017 (EST)
 * I'll add in the Gold Shy Guy after the Silver Shy Guy, but I can't add the Fire Bro 8-Stack until I know where it belongs on the list. Frankly, I didn't even know they were in the game (or I may have completely forgotten).-- 14:19, 9 February 2017 (EST)
 * I have been searching everywhere I can find for information about Fire Bro 8-Stacks, but I can't find anything. I'm starting to wonder if they should be removed from the enemy list on the Paper Mario: Color Splash page until we find proof that they exist. -- 15:11, 9 February 2017 (EST)

I finally found Fire Bro 8-Stacks! They appear in Redpepper Volcano. -- 20:36, 10 March 2017 (EST)
 * I went ahead and added them myself so that I can create a page on them. -- 20:18, 13 March 2017 (EDT)

What is the source of the stats?
Many of the stats reported here are frequently corrected, which makes me wonder about their reliabity. Since I potentially have the access to these data too, could someone point me to the source of these stats so I can check it and, in case, correct it?--Mister Wu (talk) 06:14, 30 March 2017 (EDT)
 * It appears that is basing the attack power on how much damage the enemies do to him in-game. He even said here that he blocks some attacks, so some of them are unreliable. -- 09:01, 30 March 2017 (EDT)
 * I'm not talking of course about the corrected values (that come from playing the game and are thus correct), but about the values that were before, including HP and defense.--Mister Wu (talk) 10:16, 30 March 2017 (EDT)
 * added the original values. -- 10:19, 30 March 2017 (EDT)
 * Thanks! The user is inactive now, though. We should try to track down the public source, if it is a thing; if the attack values are indeed wrong (and many of them are, judging by the corrections), the other values might be as well.--Mister Wu (talk) 12:09, 30 March 2017 (EDT)
 * I have been searching, and I cannot find any public source that talks about the original values. In fact, the only source that I can find that mentions enemy stats is a forum, and no one on there seems to know how to find enemy defense or health stats. Btw, sorry about earlier, I misread your first comment and thought it said that the corrections were the unreliable stats. -- 19:31, 30 March 2017 (EDT)
 * You know, I actually asked him about the HP values months back and he claimed that he "carefully tested how much damage was done" without giving much confirmation or a thorough explanation when I asked further about the matter. --
 * Thanks, that is helpful information. At least we now know where the stats came from. -- 21:00, 30 March 2017 (EDT)
 * Thanks! Well, at least we now know that the source is direct experiments rather than code, which is important as a wrongly interpreted stat would have meant a need to change all values of said stat. Of course, the best thing would be finding the actual values from the code, I'll try to see what I can do, but this time the data is more difficult to read than expected.--Mister Wu (talk) 21:44, 30 March 2017 (EDT)
 * I'm now playing the game and those HP values are wrong, sadly. If you use uncolored Hopslipper (which is forced to do 1 HP of damage per attack due to the division-based defense system that is unable to neutralize attacks unlike in the first three Paper mario games) you'll see that you need more hits than the ones listed here. Judging by the discussion page, the stats seems to be based on the Worn-Out Jump and due to the color system the damage is probably higher than it was in Sticker Star, thus underestimating the actual amount of HP.--Mister Wu (talk) 22:40, 10 May 2017 (EDT)
 * Ok, a good news: I found the table with the data of the various attacks, including the Battle Cards' attacks! It must be noticed that the headers were found elsewhere in the file. The ones for the type of attacks of the hammers (normal, wave and missed) had to be manually reordered, and I'm unsure about the order of the fire hammers, while the other headers look fine. It turns out that the Hopslippers do 2 HP of damage at first attack (2 + 1 = 3 HP when fully charged) and then 2 for the subsequent attacks, while the fully colored Worn-Out Jump does 10 HP (2 + 8) of damage at first attack and then effectively 1 HP for each subsequent attack; this might explain why I consistenly found higher values of the HP. Hopefully the bosses still have that "divide by four" defense, anyway I'll now try to see if I can find the other stats!--Mister Wu (talk) 20:51, 12 May 2017 (EDT)
 * And now we have the general stats table, it's possible that some stats such as items dropped are still missing, and probably the format of some columns is wrong, as I don't find defense at the moment, this can be fixed later or directly converted from the integer values anyway; the HP are nonetheless visible and, as expected, they are very different from those reported here, so we will have to fix those.--Mister Wu (talk) 07:14, 14 May 2017 (EDT)

Should I list the sad Red Shy Guy in Mossrock Theater?
I think I should, because I'm not sure if the sad Red Shy Guy is listed, but it does have a different idle. It's like the one next to the dressing room in The Golden Coliseum, but hanging down a trapeze in the fourth area in Mossrock Theater after rescuing Red Toad rescue squaddie #48, optionally making it fall over. I mean, should this be listed on the bestiary or not? Because it says, "Red Shy Guy" as it's battle name. (To me, it should've been called "Sad Guy".)

User talk:MadBird82 23:01, 8 May 2017 (EDT)
 * I have seen that Shy Guy before, but I do not think that a separate section is necessary, as the only difference is the Idle animation and it still has the same stats and name as "Red Shy Guys". However, you could still add mention it in another page if you feel it fits there. -- 06:27, 9 May 2017 (EDT)

Big Lava Bubble quotes
Should the line of dialogue ''"Oh, he's giving you a warning. That's pretty thoughtful for an enemy! He said, "I'm literally made of fire, and you're made of paper. Good luck, kindling. Bahaha!" So...maybe not as thoughtful as I originally thought"'' be moved to the Shy Guys quotes? The Big Lava Bubble doesn't speak and that line is just a Shy Guy translating for him.-- 10:16, 26 May 2017 (EDT)
 * They probably should, as they are said by a Shy Guy, one good compromise would be leaving what is said by the Big Lava Bubble in the Big Lava Bubble's entry, while putting the full lines in the Shy Guy entry.--Mister Wu (talk) 07:03, 27 May 2017 (EDT)
 * Yes, I think that would work. -- 08:44, 27 May 2017 (EDT)

Card descriptions
Following a minor dispute I had with TheRaul yesterday, should the battle card descriptions be included within the enemy profiles. If it proves too difficult, I feel it could replace the "enemy class" parameter since I find that a bit pointless.
 * There’s no reason to remove the enemy class, which is actually useful information on the enemy drops. Just so you know the card summoned allies have a full set of stats and attacks, indeed they are the units listed as PNL in the internal data, they need separate entries, not something that can fit a single line.—Mister Wu (talk) 17:44, August 31, 2020 (EDT)

Rocky Wrench Group Attack
What even is the group attack for Rocky Wrench that is listed? Also, are these attack names official or conjectural? Another thing, shouldn’t we lost their hide move as well since it is listed in the Sticker Star bestiary as well? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 21:18, November 9, 2021 (EST)
 * All the data about the moves come from the weapon table used by the game. If the hide move is not there, it's not added. If it's there, it's listed. In the case of Poo, we have 3 moves: Spanner Attack, Wrench Attack and Warawara Attack. Warawara attacks are listed as group attacks since that's the meaning of the word. It's a special attack type that is triggered when there are many enemies, consisting in the enemies attacking all at once, to avoid making the turns too long.--Mister Wu (talk) 04:34, November 10, 2021 (EST)