MarioWiki:Proposals

A proposal section works like a discussion page: comments are brought up and replied to using indents (colons, such as : or ::::) and all edits are signed using the code.

This page observes the No-Signature Policy.

How To
 * 1) If users have an idea about improving the wiki or managing its community, but feel that they need community approval before acting upon that idea, they may make a proposal about it. They must have a strong argument supporting their idea and be willing to discuss it in detail with the other users, who will then vote about whether or not they think the idea should be used. Proposals should include links to all relevant pages and Writing Guideline proposals must include a link to the draft page.
 * 2) Proposals end at the end of the day (23:59) one week after voting starts, except for Writing Guidelines and Talk Page Proposals, which run for two weeks. (All times GMT.)
 * 3) *For example, if a proposal is added at any time on Monday, August 1, 2011, the voting starts immediately and the deadline is one week later on Monday, August 8, at 23:59 GMT.
 * 4) Every vote should have a reason accompanying it. Agreeing with or seconding a previously mentioned reason given by another user is accepted.
 * 5) Users who feel that certain votes were cast in bad faith or which truly have no merit can address the votes in the Comments section. Users can ask a voter to clarify their position, point out mistakes or flaws in their arguments, or call for the outright removal of the vote if it lacks sufficient reasoning. Users may not remove or alter the content of anyone else's votes. Voters can remove or rewrite their own vote at any time, but the final decision to remove another user's vote lies solely with the administrators.
 * 6) If a user makes a vote and is subsequently blocked for any amount of time, their vote is removed. However, if the block ends before the proposal ends, then the user in question holds the right to re-cast their vote.
 * 7) No proposal can overturn the decision of a previous proposal that is less than 4 weeks (28 days) old.
 * 8) Any proposal that has three votes or less at deadline will automatically be listed as "NO QUORUM." The original proposer then has the option to relist said proposal to generate more discussion.
 * 9) All proposals that end up in a tie will be extended for another week.
 * 10) If a proposal has more than ten votes, it can only pass or fail by a margin of three votes. If a proposal reaches the deadline and the total number of votes for each option differ by two or less votes, the deadline will be extended for another week.
 * 11) Proposals can only be extended up to three times. If a consensus has not been reached by the fourth deadline, the proposal fails and can only be re-proposed after four weeks, at the earliest.
 * 12) All proposals are archived. The original proposer must take action accordingly if the outcome of the proposal dictates it. If it requires the help of an administrator, the proposer can ask for that help.
 * 13) Proposals can only be rewritten or deleted by their proposer within the first three days of their creation. However, proposers can request that their proposal be deleted by an administrator at any time, provided they have a valid reason for it. Please note that cancelled proposals must also be archived.
 * 14) If the administrators deem a proposal unnecessary or potentially detrimental to the upkeep of the Super Mario Wiki, they have the right to remove it at any time.
 * 15) There should not be proposals about creating articles on an underrepresented or completely absent subject, unless there is major disagreement about whether the content should be included. To organize efforts about completing articles on missing subjects, try creating a PipeProject.
 * 16) Proposals cannot be made about promotions and demotions. Users can only be promoted and demoted by the will of the administration.
 * 17) No joke proposals. Proposals are serious wiki matters and should be handled professionally. Joke proposals will be deleted on sight.

Basic Proposal and Support/Oppose Format This is an example of what your proposal should look like, if you want it to be acknowledged. If you are inexperienced or unsure how to set up this format, simply copy the following and paste it into the fitting section. Then replace the [subject] - variables with information to customize your proposal, so it says what you wish. If you insert the information, be sure to replace the whole variable including the squared brackets, so "[insert info here]" becomes "This is the inserted information", not "[This is the inserted information]". - ===[insert a title for your Proposal here]=== [describe what issue this Proposal is about and what changes you think should be made to improve how the Wiki handles that issue]

Proposer: Deadline: [insert a deadline here, 7 days after the proposal was created, at 23:59 GMT.]

====Support====
 * 1) [make a statement indicating that you support your proposal]

====Oppose====

====Comments==== - Users will now be able to vote on your Proposal, until the set deadline is reached. Remember, you are a user as well, so you can vote on your own Proposal just like the others.

To support, or oppose, just insert " # at the bottom of the section of your choice. Just don't forget to add a valid reason for your vote behind that tag if you are voting on another user's Proposal. If you are voting on your own Proposal, you can just say "Per my Proposal".

Talk Page Proposals All proposals dealing with a single article or a specific group of articles are held on the talk page of one of the articles in question. Proposals dealing with massive amounts of splits, merges or deletions across the Wiki should still be held on this page.


 * For a list of all settled Talk Page Proposals, see here.

How To
 * 1) All active talk page proposals must be listed below in chronological order (new proposals go at the bottom). All pages affected must be mentioned in the brief description, with the talk page housing the discussion linked to directly via "". If the proposal involved a page that is not yet made, use to communicate its title. The Deadline must also be included in the entry. Linking to pages not directly involved in the talk page proposal is not recommended, as it clutters the list with unnecessary links. Place  under the heading.
 * 2) All rules for talk page proposals are the same as mainspace proposals (see the "How To" section above), with the exceptions made by Rules 3 and 4 as follows:
 * 3) Voting in talk page proposals will be open for two weeks, not one. (All times GMT.)
 * 4) *For example, if a proposal is added at any time on Monday, August 1, 2011, it ends two weeks later on Monday, August 15, 2011, at 23:59 GMT.
 * 5) Talk page proposals may be closed by the proposer at any time if both the support and the oppose sides each have fewer than five votes.
 * 6) The talk page proposal must pertain to the article it is posted on.

List of Talk Page Proposals

 * Split both Chaps from each other (Discuss) Passed
 * Split Ashley's song from Ashley and Red (Discuss) Deadline: June 29, 2011, 23:59 GMT
 * Move Cyclops to Kazoomba (Discuss) Deadline: July 1, 2011, 23:59 GMT
 * Split Giant Banana from Banana (Discuss) Deadline: July 3, 2011 23:59 GMT
 * Merge Koopa Bun with Koopa Dumpling (Discuss) Deadline: July 4, 2011, 23:59 GMT
 * Move Grey Brick Block to Concrete Brick Block or Concrete Block (Discuss) Deadline: July 6, 2011, 23:59 GMT
 * Merge Turtley Leaf with Koopa Leaf (Discuss) Deadline: July 6, 2011, 23:59 GMT
 * Split Yoshi's Super Star from Mario Party's Super Star (Discuss) Deadline: July 7, 2011, 23:59 GMT
 * Split Young Elvin Gadd from Professor Elvin Gadd (Discuss) Deadline: July 7, 2011, 23:59 GMT
 * Split Mega Goomba (Species) from Mega Goomba (Discuss) Deadline: July 7, 2011, 23:59 GMT
 * Move List of Mario bosses to (Discuss) Deadline: July 9, 2011, 23:59 GMT
 * Split Mole Train from Mole Miner Max (Discuss) Deadline: July 9, 2011, 23:59 GMT
 * Merge Expresso II with Expresso (Discuss) Deadline: July 9, 2011, 23:59 GMT

Writing Guidelines
None at the moment.

New Features
None at the moment.

Remove categories describing or referencing non-Mario-related content from articles
This mainly deals with characters that have made appearances in Mario series games who also appear in series that are outside of our coverage. These characters are then placed in categories based upon what happens in their respective series. For example, Bottles the Mole is placed in the Undead category because he dies in Banjo-Tooie. Since we cover Mario-related content, what does it matter what happens in an external series that is outside of our jurisdiction?

Proposer: Deadline: June 23, 2011, 23:59 GMT June 30, 2011, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) Per my proposal.
 * 2) Per M4E! I like this proposal! Believe me, it's true!
 * 3) Per proposal and my comment below.
 * 4) - It took me a second to understand what you guys were saying. Although we do have categories, and though they might be that in their series, it doesn't mean that they belong in this category. We take care of Mario, DK, Yoshi, Wario, and some crossovers. If they want to be in those kind of categories, then their individual wikis can do it for them. It's not our responsibility to do it when it doesn't even fit in our genre. Whatever happens in their games stays in their games, and it is not for us to do.
 * 5) Per all.
 * 6) Per all.
 * 7) - Per Mario4Ever's proposal and the comments made by Bop1996 and Phoenix. We don't write about aspects of characters that only occur outside their Mario appearance, so why would we categorize them? If they're not "undead"/whatever in their Mario appearance, it's misleading to include them in a category of undead Mario characters. It's also confusing for folks with no knowledge of the parent series: all they will see is the disagreement between the undead categorization and the exposition of the article (which will have no mention of the character's undeathliness).
 * 8) Per all I guess.
 * 9) Per all especially BMB.
 * 10) - Regardless of whether or not Bottles the Mole was undead in his marioverse appearance, you cannot change the fact that Bottles the Mole is undead (canonically speaking). Saying otherwise would be giving false information to anybody researching the subject. This applies to every other scenario as well.
 * 11) - Per proposal.

Oppose

 * 1) theres a difference between jurisdiction and confirmed fact and if the categories fit they should be in there since its a confirmed fact theres no reason to remove them unless there false
 * 2) If a mole died in a Non-Mario game, then that should be included, as that is info on the mole. How about the Sonic and Pokemon characters? Pokemon could be placed in Category:Pokemon Characters and the Sonic characters could be placed in Category:Sonic Characters. So yes, we should keep non-Mario categories as there is content for them.
 * 3) Per Bjatta.
 * 4) You don't completely specify the categories and per all.
 * 5) I don't understand what categories relate to Mario and what articles do not. Birds are not Mario-related, but some Mario characters are birds, for instance.
 * 6) Per all.
 * 7) Per all.
 * 8) per all
 * 9) Per all.

Comments
@Goomba's Shoe15 So you'd be ok with putting Conker the Squirrel in categories such as Drunkard, Hungover, Profanity User, Murderer, Sex Addict, and Pill Popper? You know, as he's confirmed to be all of those things in Conker's Bad Fur Day.
 * Yes but those would be pretty limited categories considering he'd be the only one also mario would go under the kidnapper category, /luigi would be in the drug user category, and Bowser well yeah... my point is we have these categories we can confirm that these characters fit the category so theres no reason they cant be in ther
 * We don't have Link and Zelda in a "Heroes of Hyrule" category.
 * We also don't have a Hereos of Hyrule category but we do have a married cateory and Olimar is married so he should go in that category
 * Why don't we have a "Heroes of Hyrule" category? Could it be that these are designed to be applied to characters and events relevant to the Mario series?
 * That and it would be two short side note link is in the heroes category, but more to the point you have yet two give a reason why we should not include these characters in the categories when we know they fit in there
 * I did. Since we cover Mario-related content, what does it matter what happens in an external series that is outside of our jurisdiction? The point of this proposal is that this wiki does not need to concern itself with content outside of its jurisdiction; therefore, a marriage in the Pikmin series or a death in Banjo-Tooie is irrelevant.
 * But it's part of the characters biography and it's a known fact that they are married so theres no reason for it to be removed
 * We'll see how things turn out on the 23rd, monsieur.

Here's my take: Yes, the categories exist for a good reason, and they are used to, well, categorize characters so that they may be grouped according to how they are similar. That's all well and good. Now, we cover other Nintendo series (as well as some elements from Sonic, Metal Gear, Banjo, and Conker) for one reason: they appear in Mario-related media. While I believe that we should be accurate in-universe for those other series (eg, I don't want false info about the LoZ series on Link), that doesn't mean that we should categorize them in categories only fulfilled outside of the Mario series (inclusive). For example, if Mario were for some weird reason to gain the Triforce and we created a category for that, it wouldn't make sense to place Ganondorf, Zelda, and Link in that category since that fact only matters in LoZ games.


 * You all make good points, but here's the deal: as established by Coverage, we only accommodate information from outside series when that information is related to the Mario series in some way. This is the reason why (I believe a few months ago) almost the entirety of the Banjo article was removed; because nearly everything in the article did not pertain to the Mario series in any way. What information remained in the article after this was kept only because it was relevant to the Mario series. Because Olimar's marital status, as well as the specifics of Bottles' death and resurrection, is not relevant to the Mario series at all, we should therefore not concern ourselves with mentioning such information, despite the fact that it may be correct. Long story short; it really doesn't matter what happens with any particular character or characters outside of a strictly Mario game, the only thing that matters is what happens to them in relation to a Mario series game / character / item, etc., ergo, if it doesn't have anything to do with the Mario series, we do not have any business covering it here. 14:18, 17 June 2011 (EDT)

@Zero777: The reason I don't specify the categories is because they vary among the articles in question. For example, Bottles the Mole is placed in the Undead category because he dies in Banjo-Tooie. Olimar is placed in the Married category because he gets married in the Pikmin series. Pac-Man is placed in the Parents category because he and Ms. Pac-Man have Pac-Man Jr. The problem with all of these is that they occur in the characters' respective series and are not related to the Mario series in any way, shape, or form. Therefore, these articles need to be removed from categories that describe non-Mario-related events, and the way to do that is to remove those categories from the articles in question. @Bowser Jr And Tom The Atum: I'm not trying to get rid of categories. I'm trying to stop their misuse. Categories such as Pokemon characters and Sonic characters exist because representatives from those series appear in Mario-related content. The whole point of this proposal is that categories, when used, describe events concerned only with Mario-related content in some way.

@LeftyGreenMario He's not saying we should remove any categories he's saying we should remove characters with info that only happens in there series from those categories
 * @All Opposers: Let's look at it this way. Characters in categories via their own game -> Didn't appear in the MarioWiki, so makes people confused -> Many users will then look it up, and find out about it -> Users will add that information randomly to each article - which will ultimately lead to -> Articles have useless information that pertains to nothing dealing with the article. Tell me if I'm wrong, but I'm sure that if I'm able to predict that far ahead that it won't be bound to happen any time sooner. That is why we need to let this pass, because I rather have a separated article not including what happens in its other appearances outside of the Mario series then having major headaches of reverting many edits because they were just trying to help out.

Merge the Croacus family (excluding King Croacus IV) to List of Implied Characters
Currently, our definition of implied is "something that is mentioned but is not shown". If it is implied, it goes to one of the various list of implied articles. Now, I haven't played Super Paper Mario in a while, but the articles say that King Croacus I, Prince Croacus, Queen Croacus II, and King Croacus III are all implied, so since the wiki needs to stick with concistency, I propose to merge the articles I just mentioned to List of Implied Characters.

Proposer: Deadline: June 30, 2011, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) I per my proposal.
 * 2) Per
 * 3) - Like I said in the Rosalina's Mother TPP, in-game pictures shouldn't count as physical appearances any more than textual mentions. Merge 'em.
 * 4) The List of Implied Characters is a list of characters that have not physically appeared in any form of media up to this point in time. These members of the Croacus monarchy have not physically appeared in the series. Therefore, they are implied and should be merged.
 * 5) Per all and Reversinator's comment.
 * 6) Per all of them and I love it!
 * 7) Per Walky and 4Ever.
 * 8) 5 Volt is there, and she actually talks (correct me if I'm wring)
 * 9) Per all.
 * 10) Per Reversinator's comment.
 * 11) Per all.

Comments
I seriously don't know about merging them. I mean they do have their own pictures with a significant amount of information for each Croacus and I think that is enough for an article, despite them never appearing in the game.
 * Nevertheless, they never actually appear in the game aside from a painting, but that doesn't count, so per our current definition of implied. Yes, they do have info on all of them, but it could of been faked. With no actual proof, we consider them implied.
 * It's like the Rosalina's Mother TPP, only without the "but is the story really about Rosalina?" kerfuffle. These pictures and text were explicitly about these characters, so it's much more straightforward question: do pictures count as "physical appearance"s or not? -
 * Photos should, but drawings, paintings, sketches, etc., shouldn't count.

@Walkazo: In Luigi's Mansion, all of the ghosts who appear in the pictures aren't implied characters, right? If so, we should conform to that or change it to keep consistancy.
 * Remember, though, that before they become pictures, they are captured by Luigi.
 * Um, what? E. Gadd put the ghosts in paintings after capturing them, then they escaped, then Luigi captured them again and turned them into paintings again. What's this about them being implied?
 * Apparently, Bowser's luma is saying that because the painting ghosts aren't implied, the Croacus monarchs shouldn't be considered implied on the basis of being in paintings.
 * Would it kill to know something before using it as a reason? Especially when it's false?

@Nicke5 5 Volt makes an two actual appearance's although one's only a silhouette and the other is only her leg so she is not implied

Categories for Redirects
I've noticed an inconcistentcy with redirects. Specifically, that some of them have categories, but most of them don't. On one hand, it helps to easily organize them, but on the other those implied redirects are the only ones that have categories. I'll stay neutral on this, but something should be done.

Proposer: Deadline: June 30, 2011, 23:59 GMT

Remove some, but not all categories

 * 1) - Per my comment.
 * 2) Per Walkazo.
 * 3) Per Walkazo.
 * 4) Per everyone please!
 * 5) per all.

Comments
Most of the time it's pointless to categorize redirects, but it makes sense on some occasions, like redirects to list pages: it's the only way you can categorize implied characters, for example. The baseball teams having categories also makes sense, since three quarters of them don't have actual articles. So, most of the redirects need to be cleaned up and have the categories stripped, but not all of them - but there's currently no voting option for that. I think a fourth "remove some, but not all categories" option should be made; if one isn't made, however, I'll just vote to "leave it as is", since maintaining our policy-less, "sometimes they have them" status quo give us more flexibility to take this on case-by-case than simply saying "yes" or "no" to all of them would. -
 * Well, I can still edit my proposal. Adding your option.
 * Awesome, thanks. -

Artwork Transparency Issues
During the past set of months, I've been noticing that a good number of JPEG artworks were being replaced by PNG artworks with transparent backgrounds. However, a lot of those images look quite ugly when they're viewed in backgrounds that aren't colored white. I've mentioned this dilemma at the admins boards, and some of the Sysops there do agree with my statement. I propose that any artworks with ugly-looking transparency has to lose the transparency. After all, we shouldn't be modifying the artworks by any means; if the artworks are JPEGs, upload them as JPEGs; if the PNG artworks don't have anything transparent, upload them that way.

Proposer: Deadline: June 30, 2011 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) - Per my proposal.
 * 2) - As I hear a lot, we strive to make this wiki better and better, and if images that don't make the wiki look well, it brings down the wiki's quality. Sometimes it's just better to leave small things alone to make bigger things better.
 * 3) Per proposal.
 * 4) Per all!
 * 5) - I recall some images, such as the Black Mage artwork, looking better without transparency. Per all.
 * 6) Adding transparency ruins the image. Per proposal.
 * 7) "If the artworks are JPEGs, upload them as JPEGs." PNG. Even if not transparent, always upload PNG.
 * 8) - Per proposer. Actually I don't see the necessity to converse JPEG files into PNG: there is no real difference in a picture when converting a JPEG into PNG, and the transparency thing is more of an excuse to say that the PNG is better than JPEG, never noticing the size of the picture wich is a lot heavier in PNG files. This is one of the various causes that retouching official artworks really bothers me. That and the user's less knowledge about a in-game model and a (very bad) cropped screenshot.

Oppose

 * 1) I disagree with this proposal as PNGs are usually better then JPGs and the conversion from JPG to PNG is rather good because the images that I did in that way always looked more clear quality-wise.
 * 2) Per UM3000 and comment below. Just let users have the freedom to do whatever they want with the image as long it will look good on and make the article better in quality.
 * 3) Per UltraMario3000.
 * 4) Per all.
 * 5) Isn't Transpaprancy good?

Comments
Recently I've been working with PNG sprite images with white backgrounds that are unnecessary and removing them and reuploading it. I haven't done anything with JPEGs. That's ok, right?
 * I think the proposal is saying that we should stop making non-transparent images transparent because if you put them behind a background that is a color other than white, you can still see some of the white around the picture.
 * I don't understand the difference between a JPEG a PNG or transparency all i ever see are pictures
 * JPEG and PNG are popular image file formats. PNGs are more easily modifiable than JPEGs in a software such as Fireworks or Photoshop. Most images have backgrounds (generally white), and people can use software to remove them (an image without a background is considered transparent). It can be useful at times, but it is not always done perfectly. Usually, the software will remove most of a background using a tool, leaving the user to remove the rest manually, sometimes pixel-by-pixel depending on the quality wanted. The problem is that it can be a tedious process depending on the size of the image and the quantity of background to be removed, so some of it is likely to remain either unnoticed or unattended. On a white background (or one colored identically to the image background), there's no problem, but other backgrounds reveal these unnoticed or unattended portions and make the image, and by extension, the wiki, look unprofessional.
 * I'm really confused on this still. Can you give a few examples to really clear this up?
 * This image TrSuper mushroom.jpg has a background (all of the space surrounding the trophy), while this image MarioNSMBWii.PNG is transparent (all transparent images have that checkered "background" you see when clicking on it).

UM: No, the proposer is talking about the bad quality transparent images, not all of the transparent images.

I can see where some people are going by replacing JPEG artworks with PNG artworks. However, if the PNG artworks do not have a transparent background, you should upload them just like that. If a PNG artwork has transparency already when you download it, odds are, it'll probably look good on any kind of background. If that truly is the case, that kind of artwork image can be uploaded; Ex.: ; when I found that image, it already had an Alpha Layer, and it looked good on a black background. Basically, by normal standards, quality > transparency, and transparency should only be implemented if it looks good. -
 * I have noticed that some users don't know how to keep the quality when changing it to a transparent image. When they upload the image it is smaller than the JPEG file was and so some users who know how to keep the quality and have it transparent have to fix the image. Also JPEG files has little dots that are hard to see that surround the image and they blend in with the white. We don't want to see that because it makes the image look like it has bad quality and that is probably why we make images transparent. -
 * Regardless, if the original artwork doesn't have transparency, do not alter it. At times, adding transparency to artwork will make it look much worse, due to the pixelated edges that can be seen.  I learned that the hard way when I modified some Mario Super Sluggers artworks. -

@UltraMario3000: He's not saying that we shouldn't convert from JPG to PNG, but that if someone does that, they shouldn't make it transparent.

@Yoshiwaker: I don't see what's wrong with making it transparent though.:/--
 * Take an image and put it behind a black background. You'll see.
 * I don't get what you're trying to say Xze.--
 * Look here.

Recipe Images
I've noticed an inconcistency with the images for the recipes. You can even look now at many of them. Many of them are quite alike, but they are different to the others alike. This has caused not only constant headaches with users like myself, but also more work for every user to do.

Just go to here and notice how each image is for the most part (as some are like .gif and .jpg). This is a great example - for the most part - of what I am talking about. Now go to here or here, and notice how many images are like, , , , , and then even images for items that are used for more than one game because there isn't a image  found!

My point I'm trying to come across is that many of our pages have had major work done on them because of this inconsistency, as well as editing them now being a major pain-in-the-neck. Changing them to something that will work out for all of them (, , and are what the ideal file names would be), we'll be able to create these pages more efficently, as well as editing further pages be a lot more smoother and less time-consuming.

As an example, this is more efficent way of making images easier, as the template already holds the key factors in it, which would allow the editor just to simply put in the item name. And for the pages that don't use that template, it will still allow easier editing since they would have to only put the key factors and the item name instead of looking up the image and copying it into a page.

The downside to all of this is that many of the pages already having these mix-matched file names would need to be fixed and updated to the latest things. Hopefully it won't take much time, and I already have it planned to quickly update each page before it ends up as a project that will take more than a few days. If the proposal pass, I'll start immediately on working, and hopefully have some help to get it down. That is the only downside I can see to this passing afaik. Even if it takes some work, it is better to have consistency then have all this annoying work done if it could be much simplier.

Proposer: Deadline: July 4, 2011, 23:59 GMT

Have them match

 * 1) - I have done many of the pages that hold a lot of these images, and this the best option that I wish I thought of long ago. Per my proposal.
 * 2) This makes sense to me. It'll be more consistent. Consistency is good. Per BMB.
 * 3) - I'm Reddragon and I approve this proposal! Per all!

Leave as it is

 * 1) - I think I understand this one. My point is that this is rather pointless. Nobody is going to see the filenames if they don't want to, and, even so, they're there to see the recipes, not the filenames or the pictures. The names wouldn't bother someone who went to the page for its purpose. And if that's completely irrelevant, then, again, I don't understand what you're proposing.
 * 2) Per MCD.
 * 3) Per both.
 * 4) - Per this dashing mystery fellow with the top-hat.

Comments
@MCD: I a way to the viewer, it is pretty much pointless to them. But I'm viewing this to the people that have constantly had to edit the pages full of images. I was editing many yesterday, and I was completely annoyed with all the extra work I had to do. It may not seem like a lot to a viewer, but it's a big difference to thoses that have edited the pages like myself.

Miscellaneous
None at the moment.