MarioWiki:Proposals

List of talk page proposals

 * Split into Adult Shine Block and Small Shine Block. (Discuss) Deadline: December 1, 2016, 23:59 GMT

Writing guidelines
None at the moment.

New features
None at the moment.

Removals
None at the moment.

Allow .APNGs and create a notice template related to them
'''This proposal will not replace the .gif format as the preferred animated format. Instead, it will allow .apngs only in cases where there is a clear benefit to using them.'''

This proposal will overturn this one and will likely reinstate this proposal that attempted to create a notice for APNG images.

We briefly had some .apngs running around in this wiki, though we have disallowed them mainly because of lack of universal browser support (notably, in Chrome).

The current animated format we use and prefer, .gif, however, is highly flawed. Not to mention, it's very outdated. This is because it supports only 256 different colors, making the images indexed, which isn't really much of an issue because most sprites are below this format. It also does not allow semi-transparent values, thus making it "all-or-nothing". It also usually isn't a problem, but recently, we have several images that use semi-transparent values, but are forced into a .gif format, thus greatly reducing the quality of these images. It also forces the transparency to look horrible and resemble a poorly-cropped image that goes against our own policy on transparent images. Arguably, this forced change also goes against our aim to give game-accurate impressions.

APNGs are intended to be a replacement for the outdated .gif images, but again, its biggest issue is that it lacks universal browser support, as in the comments before. Otherwise, for any other browser that doesn't support APNG I don't think we should have to bend backwards to stick to a superseded format. Still, there is a sizeable amount of browsers that don't support .apngs, and it has been shown to me that a majority of users here are Chrome, so we should not go full-on transition to .apng. Additionally, thumbnails cannot be rendered as animated when they're .apng images due to technical limitations, so they may not be immediately apparent since many images are used as thumbnails.

If this proposal passes, we'll have to create a notice template as in this proposal (see comments section). I also don't think we should get out of our way to convert every single .gif to .apng either, but we have to, at the minimum, allow .apngs. We might have gotten away with .gifs due to the simplicity of most sprites, but we have some recent games that use sprites that don't transition well into .gif at all, which includes Wario Land: Shake It! and Paper Mario: Color Splash and we have some miscellaneous animated images as shown here that would benefit from staying as an .apng rather than a .gif.

In brief:


 * This proposal allows .apngs because of transparency and indexing issues with .gif. .gif is an outdated format, and it shows.
 * A template on apngs will be created to warn users that use browsers without .apng support.
 * This proposal does not intend that .gifs must be replaced with .apngs. In fact, most .gifs should remain the as is. We use .apngs only when they have a clear advantage, which is accurately preserving colors and transparency values.

Proposer: Deadline: November 25, 2016, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) Per proposal
 * 2) – If Porple is willing, this has my support.
 * 3) The palette of the GIF format was a bit worrying, as I had noticed that some colors were indeed being replaced by different ones. Since I like to have images as faithful to the original ones as possible within the upload limits, definitely supporting this proposal!
 * 4) I support. Per all
 * 5) Per all, especially Shokora.
 * 6) I don't even know what APNG is, or whether my browser can run it, but why not? It sounds useful. Get with the times, Mario Wiki!
 * 7) I support allowing APNG, but gifs should remain the preferred format because of it's universal support across all devices and browsers and image editing programs.
 * 1) I support allowing APNG, but gifs should remain the preferred format because of it's universal support across all devices and browsers and image editing programs.

Comments
Actually, if APNG images saved as .png files are used instead, the browsers that don't support APNG images can still show the first frame. Should we recommend APNG images in .png files instead?--Mister Wu (talk) 20:53, 18 November 2016 (EST)
 * I don't think that would be necessary. We should be using .apng only when it is absolutely needed, like those Color Splash sprite animations. 22:36, 18 November 2016 (EST)

By the way, would it be affordable to use javascripts that display APNGs on browsers with HTML5 canvas support? Just an afterthought, though... -- 23:24, 18 November 2016 (EST)
 * That'll be something to ask Steve, and that's assuming he's on board with this (I hope he is). 23:35, 18 November 2016 (EST)

Though I support uploading APNGs, each should have a gif version uploaded as well. Even though it's supported by Firefox, Safari, and soon Chrome, there are far more browsers that don't support it. Gif, while not as great, is supported across all devices and browsers, as well as being easy to make. In most cases the low quality doesn't matter. I've been uploading a fair amount of the color splash gifs lately, along with Mister Wu. For their purposes to show the enemy idle animations, the gifs do just fine. But, I agree that it would be great to save the animation from the wiki to the desktop and keep its full quality from the sprite sheet. In such case, we could add a link on the gif file pages that can take you to the APNG version. I use Microsoft Edge on my laptop, and Dolphin on my phone, and neither of those support APNG to my knowledge.-- 00:00, 19 November 2016 (EST)
 * The Paper Mario Color Splash idle animations are the primary reasons for this proposal. The .gifs aren't fine to me because they index the transparency so the image looks very bad when placed against a background. Yeah, I don't think either Edge or Dolphin support apngs but most major browsers do, so I think we should settle on a compromise. .gifs should still be the most common format but where .apng is clearly better, it should be used. 00:07, 19 November 2016 (EST)

53% of our visitors use Chrome. Just because there is a bug report for APNG support in Chrome (as there has always been) doesn't mean they have any intention of actually including it. So you can think of this proposal as asking, "Should we break animated images for the majority of our visitors?" Even if Google comes out and says they will support it, I wouldn't do anything until we can actually see it in action on both desktop and mobile. -- 01:02, 19 November 2016 (EST)
 * Okey, good point. I've reworded the proposal to not replace .gif as the preferred format, but merely to allow animated .pngs in cases where preserving transparency and colors is a big benefit. 01:09, 19 November 2016 (EST)
 * After adding-in IE, Edge, and some miscellaneous browsers that don't support APNG, the image animations wouldn't work for about 60% of visitors. I understand your concerns about image quality, but is it really worth breaking the animation for 60% of people so that 40% can see it in higher-quality? Mainspace articles should work the same for nearly everyone. It's a whole different story if Chrome starts supporting it, but we would have to wait for that to happen first. -- 01:34, 19 November 2016 (EST)
 * Hm, probably not. I would almost recommend making .apngs separate, which would work fairly well for the animated sticker images, but I realized that'll mean reuploading all those Color Splash enemies as .apngs as well AND providing .gifs and static .pngs to boot. Not a pretty picture. Anyhow, probably withdraw the proposal. Thanks, Google. 01:51, 19 November 2016 (EST)

I would like to say that I use Microsoft Edge. Also, Paint Guy Idle Animation has a very small but noticeable bad look. It only comes when I look at it very carefully. But after seeing the flaw, I think that this flaw should not exist even if it isn't noticeable. One thing I don't really understand is why browsers don't support APNGs, but support PNGs. 01:15, 19 November 2016 (EST)
 * The Paint Guy idle is only meant to be temporary. I knew it was bad when I made it, but I had no other options. 01:25, 19 November 2016 (EST)

Miscellaneous
None at the moment.