MarioWiki:Proposals

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Move Category:Outer Space Locations to Category:Cosmic Locations, restrict the term "outer space" and other related terms, and add "outer space" to the list of frequently misused terms
Not too long ago, a proposal was implemented to change the name of Category:Outer Space Locations to Category:Cosmic Locations. Such proposal was opposed to on the grounds that the term "is synonymous" and "it's a nice umbrella term".

But I argue...not really. The proposer's request was perfectly rational, the rationales provided for the opposition were bad or otherwise not sufficient enough (no offense), and the proposal was overlooked. Here's why: Basically, I'm proposing that we overturn the decision of the aforementioned proposal, restrict the term "outer space" in favor of "cosmic", and also add "outer space" to the list of frequently misused terms. "Cosmic" refers to something that merely appears to be in outer space but isn't always in outer space, and thus is more well-defined, clear-cut, and appropriate enough for any case. Yes, "cosmic" is clearly not THE perfect alternative, but I have yet to find an even more suitable term that addresses the issues above.
 * It may not be entirely inaccurate, but it's not entirely accurate either. As (the original proposer) pointed out, the term "outer space" is specifically used to refer to the open, near-empty space outside the gravitational sphere of any celestial body. As far as I can tell, Outer Space from Super Paper Mario, the locations in Super Mario Galaxy (including the Comet Observatory itself), the worlds of Super Mario Galaxy 2, the last four worlds of Super Mario 3D World, and two incarnations of Rainbow Road are the only unambiguous examples. That's literally all. The majority of locations that are purported to be in outer space are heavily implied to be otherwise. Cosmic Adventure, for example, is "said" to be in outer space despite specifically being defined as just a Mini-Land attraction; the "outer space" backdrop is just a backdrop, more or less. Some locations are also only temporarily in outer space, too. Peach's Castle, for example, is pulled into outer space by Bowser and his minions in both Paper Mario and Super Mario Galaxy. In the case of the former, Bowser's Castle is also temporarily in outer space! As  once said, "Furthermore, why would you use an inaccurate and potentially misleading term when dozens of accurate, non-misleading alternatives exist?"
 * Also see Super Radio's comment below. I think he explains it better than I can.
 * It's vague and scientifically incorrect. It boggles the information, without any real benefit to show for it. For example, "Superstar Road is accessed via a portal as this world is in deep space." Ignoring the thumbnail, what does "deep space" mean in this context anyway? Is it really in outer space? Or is it underground? Or does it merely have a cosmic backdrop? Example aside, what about the Mushroom World itself? Isn't it technically in outer space as well?! Restricting the term "outer space" (and "deep space" for that matter) in favor of the more specific term "cosmic" helps improve the sheer ambiguity and quality of the information.
 * As has been argued before and what will be argued again, the grandfather clause is never a good excuse, anywhere, ever. As you can see, "outer space" is just as questionable as other terms that used to be prevalent on the wiki, such as "beta" or "subspecies" (until they were restricted for their own inaccuracies). It feels like yet another wishy-washy stance of "we know it's bad, but we use it anyways because...stuff and things...I think", which should never ever be considered in professional writing circles.

Proposer: Deadline: June 28, 2018, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) Per proposal.
 * 2) Per proposal. See my comment.
 * 3) Both of you raise very valid points. Per Toadette and Super Radio.

Comments
If you're wondering, "outer space" won't be restricted in places where it is legitimately referred to, as per the examples I mentioned above (and same as the other misused terms).

Also, I'm going to respectfully go through the flaws of each counterargument in the previous proposal:
 * @Tucayo, TheFlameChomp, and Alex95: From what I can make out of the Wiktionary entries, the two terms are related, but they're certainly not synonymous.
 * @MrConcreteDonkey: I'm trying to understand your vote...so are you saying that every location purported to be outer space is in outer space? Forgive me if I'm wrong, but to me, that sounds a bit...misleading, no?
 * @Doc von Schmeltwick: That's actually because it technically is a snowscape, as the platforms are covered in snow. (To be honest, your vote wasn't half bad, it's just the example doesn't work for the reasons provided here.)
 * @All five: Please try to keep these counterarguments in mind when voting here.
 * Lastly, if there's any term you think is more suitable than "cosmic", please feel free to let me know. Thanks! 09:13, 21 June 2018 (EDT)

I would like to expand on this proposal with the analogy I made on Toadette the Achiever's talk page, hoping to further convince people that "Outer Space" is a gross term to use when referring to everything that is outside the planet of reference. (It's slightly edited.) We say that sattelites, planets, and other celestial bodies are in Outer Space because that is their greater location. Sort of like saying that Easter Island is in the middle of the Pacific. However, when talking about an object located ON said places we don't say that it's in Outer Space; it is on its carrier, which, yes, happens to be floating in space. Similarly, we don't say that those Moai head statues are found in the middle of the Pacific, but on an island in the middle of the Pacific. The same logic applies to X-Naut Fortress, Lunar Colony, Moon Kingdom and others. They are not exactly dipping into deep space, but the body they are on is. "Outer Space locations" is a very rough denominator to use for such places and it could technically be used for virtually any place in the Mushroom Kingdom. Since the scope of the Outer Space Locations category is currently everything outside of Mario's planet, and judging by some definitions of "cosmic", this would be a better term to encapsulate galaxies, planets and everything on them. -- 09:58, 21 June 2018 (EDT)

@Toadette the Achiever Is that snow? Or is that the similar-looking-yet-harder icy crust that always coats the bottom of a deep freeze? I mean, Snowman Wario is there, but that's triggered by stuff falling on him from above, where the ice consistency would probably be different anyways. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 15:12, 21 June 2018 (EDT)
 * You wouldn't name the interior of a fridge a "snowscape" under normal circumstances, but in the background of 40 Below Fridge it actually appears to be snowing. I'm no expert in thermodynamics, but this strange phenomenon (for a fridge, at least) indicates that the icy coat might actually be, in fact, snow. -- 15:34, 21 June 2018 (EDT)
 * And Slipside Ride? That's a cave, so it's more than likely just ice. I'm neither opposing nor supporting at this moment, just throwing some things out there. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 15:42, 21 June 2018 (EDT)
 * The platforms in Slipslide Ride appear to be littered with snow as well...at least that's what I think it is. 15:53, 21 June 2018 (EDT)
 * Slipslide Ride is clearly not a snowscape though--you can't have snow without precipitations, which wouldn't naturally occur in an enclosed area, but 40 Below Fridge is an exception for some reason. Actually, I don't think it's wrong if we consider 40 Below Fridge an artificial snowscape :) -- 15:59, 21 June 2018 (EDT)
 * Then again, there is ice in Blizzard!!! and Sand Kingdom's underground areas. And in Super Mario Maker and it's remake, ice can be placed in a cave, a house, underwater, and a castle with lava. 16:18, 21 June 2018 (EDT)

Also, I mentioned that this could be renamed to Space Locations. Is Cosmic better than Space? Because if it is, (and I will say this again) that category needs something done too. Although, the names snowscapes, subterrean areas, haunted places, forests and jungles, hotels and inns, and cities and towns are names give for broad terms of what they cover. And if this follows after that, Outer Space or Cosmic (for proposal purposes) can exist with the Space category. But, is Cosmic better than Space? 16:18, 21 June 2018 (EDT)
 * "Space" and "outer space" mean the same thing in this context. Sorry to disappoint you. 17:13, 21 June 2018 (EDT)

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