MarioWiki:Proposals

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r149/Deadringerforlove/dessert1.jpg A proposal section works like a discussion page: comments are brought up and replied to using indents (colons, such as : or ::::) and all edits are signed using the code.

This page observes the No-Signature Policy.

How To
 * 1) Actions that users feel are appropriate to have community approval first can be added by anyone, but they must have a strong argument.
 * 2) Users then vote and discuss on the issue during that week. The "deadline" for the proposal is one week from posting at:
 * 3) *Monday to Thursday: 17:00 (5pm)
 * 4) *Friday and Saturday: 20:00 (8pm)
 * 5) *Sunday: 15:00 (3pm)
 * 6) Every vote should have a reason accompanying it.
 * 7) Users who feel that certain votes were cast in bad faith or which truly have no merit can address the votes in the Comments section. Users can ask a voter to clarify their position, point out mistakes or flaws in their arguments, or call for the outright removal of the vote if it lacks sufficient reasoning. Users may not remove or alter the content of anyone else's votes. The voter can remove or rewrite their own vote at any time, but the final decision to remove another User's vote lies solely with the Administrators.
 * 8) " # " should be added under the last vote of each support/oppose section to show another blank line.
 * 9) All proposals that end up in a tie will be extended for another week.
 * 10) If a proposal has more than ten votes, it can only pass or fail by a margin of three votes. If a proposal reaches the deadline and the total number of votes for each option differ by two or less votes, the deadline will be extended for another week.
 * 11) Any proposal that has three votes or less at deadline will automatically be listed as "NO QUORUM." The original proposer then has the option to relist said proposal to generate more discussion.
 * 12) No proposal can overturn the decision of a previous proposal that is less than 4 weeks (28 days) old.
 * 13) Proposals can only be rewritten or deleted by their proposer within the first three days of their creation. However, the proposer can request that their proposal be deleted by a Sysop at any time, provided they have a valid reason for it.
 * 14) All proposals are archived. The original proposer must take action accordingly if the outcome of the proposal dictates it. If it requires the help of a Sysop, the proposer can ask for that help.
 * 15) There shouldn't be proposals about creating articles on a underrepresented or completely absent subject, unless there is major disagreement about whether the content should be included. To organize efforts about completing articles on missing subjects, try creating a PipeProject.
 * 16) Proposals can not be made about System Operator promotions and demotions. Sysops can only be promoted and demoted by the will of Bureaucrats.
 * 17) If the Sysops deem a proposal unnecessary or potentially detrimental to the upkeep of the Super Mario Wiki, they have the right to remove it at any time.
 * 18) No joke proposals. Proposals are serious wiki matters, and should be handled professionally. Joke proposals will be deleted on sight.

The times are in EDT (UTC -4:00), and are set so that the user is more likely to be online at those times (after work/school, weekend nights). If a proposal is added on Saturday night at 11:59 PM EDT, the deadline is the next Saturday night at 8:00 PM. If it is a minute later, the deadline is a day plus 15 hours (Sunday), as opposed to a day minus 4 hours.

CURRENTLY: , 27 2024 (EDT)

Rules and Regulations for Specific-Article Proposals
Since has (perhaps unintentionally) brought up the issue of proposals on specific pages (see Talk:Earth Crystal or Talk:Straw) and  has said that "talk page 'proposals' do have a habit of going unnoticed for months," I thought that a specific set of rules and regulations pertaining to talk page proposals. I'll give you a few ideas of what we could do, my solution, and then multiple options for voting.

We need a specific name for these proposals. I propose (no pun intended... really) "talk page proposals." I am open to other suggestions, but this is the name that I will use.

I believe that these talk page proposals should get at least some mention to the whole userbase via this article (MarioWiki:Proposals) or a page linked to it (possibly MarioWiki:Proposals/Talk Page Proposals). This page will link to all pending talk page proposals and explain the rules of talk page proposals.

Which leads to the most important part of this proposal: the rules. Now, I will give you all my rules for these pages; in my opinion they are fair and better for their purpose. Here they are:
 * 1) All rules for talk page proposals are kept the same as mainspace proposals, with the exceptions made by Rules 2 & 3.
 * 2) Voting in talk page proposals will be open for two weeks, not one.
 * 3) Talk page proposals may closed by the proposer if both the support and the oppose sides have fewer than five votes.
 * 4) The talk page proposal must pertain to the article it is posted on. (Sounds like a dumb rule, but it's best not to have loopholes.)

As you can see in the voting section, I have given you a few options. Each should be explained sufficiently, but, if it is not, I will try my best to help you understand.

Note: Only if Part 1 passes will Part 2 be viable.

Proposer: Deadline: December 25, 2009, 20:00

Link to Talk Page Proposals on MarioWiki:Proposals

 * 1) - It seems excessive to create a whole sub-page for a handful of rules and a bulleted list of links and small descriptions (assuming we format the list similar to the way I showcased in the General Comments below). It'd be easier to just create a new "Talk Page Proposals" section after "How To" with two sub-sections: one for the rules and one for the list. Also, people don't always bother with sub-pages, so this would ensure the list does get seen.
 * 2) - Per Walkazo.
 * 3) - Per Walkazo

Link to Talk Page Proposals on a New Page: MarioWiki:Proposals/Talk Page Proposals

 * 1) - Sounds like the most space-efficient to me.
 * 2) - Wonderful proposal. Supports everything I'm trying to do here... I feel it would be better to occupy these talk page proposals on a new page, since their purpose is a bit different, and may have different rules (if your rules are accepted). It would also save space, as well as give more attention to these types of proposals. If they were listed on here, they could easily be ignored. However, a new page listed right under Community - Proposals on the left task bar couldn't be ignored.

Part 1 Comments
@Walkazo: I'm not sure if it would be a sub-page at all. The proposal is still new, so perhaps we could discuss it and Bloc could add a third option? New page, sub-page, and right here on this page... I would prefer the first option, since it would give equal attention to this general proposal page, though you're right. If the list were formatted as you've done (which I think is the best means of presenting the information), it probably wouldn't merit a page of its own, though I'm still wary of how and where it would be placed here without being ignored or taking up too much room. Discussion, I suppose. Redstar 22:07, 18 December 2009 (EST)
 * "MarioWiki:Proposals/Talk Page Proposals" is a sub-page. Also, we don't want to create too many options - that spreads the support votes rather thinly, whereas the outright opposers only have one option and could defeat the proposal even if the total number of supporters is greater. -
 * Good point. I'll wait until Bloc puts in his thoughts, see if he revises anything. May change my vote over then. Redstar 23:20, 18 December 2009 (EST)

Use Bloc Partier's Rules

 * 1) - Per me.
 * 2) - Per BP

Part 2 Comments
Can you elaborate on your second rule? Redstar 19:40, 18 December 2009 (EST)
 * No putting a proposal to merge Mario with Luigi (don't ask me why I chose these two) on the Bowser page
 * That's the third rule, I believe. I should clarify: I meant the rule headed under the third bullet (the first bullet doesn't seem to be describing a rule, so not sure why it's there). Redstar 19:50, 18 December 2009 (EST)
 * To clear up confusion, I numbered them and removed the specific bit. And now to answer your question: actually, the addition was somewhat arbitrary on my part. I sort of thought that since the proposer may change their mind or give up, they should have the power to delete their proposal. I dunno, just my thought process. What if I added a bit that says "...may delete their proposal if both the support and the oppose sides have fewer than five votes"? Oh, and I feel like I should add that if you (or any other users reading this) have a different suggestion for rules, just post them on my talk page and I'll put them right into the proposal with a new option for voting.
 * I would prefer that amendment. If a proposal was per only an individual user's whim or personal taste, than it probably doesn't hold any merit. Even if they don't agree with it anymore, that doesn't change the fact it still garnered discussion and votes. If, however, the votes are fewer than five (three sounds better to me), then the proposal probably is something worth ignoring and not an important issue, so I would say the proposer should be allowed to delete, or, better yet, "close" the proposal. Redstar 20:13, 18 December 2009 (EST)
 * Great suggestion. I'll go add it right now.

General Comments
Hmmm... This is a bit confusing. Oh well. If anyone needs help, I'd love to assist. Just ask.
 * This proposal is allowed...

Since Redstar's proposal is gone, here's a version of his list of pages that need attention. It's organized so that all the pages concerned have a bit of background info (except the Merging pages, since we've talked about them to death already and I'm feeling lazy right now; I don't understand the Yoshi baby one, so I couldn't talk about that one either). All the pages concerned are linked to, with the page who's page contains the proposal in bold. In the future, I think it would be best if the proposals were staged on a common page (i.e. Culex instead of one of the Crystals, seeing as they're all going into his page; the major articles' talk pages also have a higher likelihood of getting read than the more minor aspects). There should also be a note in the rules that the proposals shouldn't be staged on redirect talk pages, since they'll never get read in that case (it's a pretty "well, duh" rule, but Bloc Partier was right to make sure we minimize loopholes by stating the obvious as much as possible).


 * Merge Crystals with Culex or into a grouped "Elementary Crystals" article.
 * Earth Crystal (the discussion for all the Crystals is held here)
 * Fire Crystal
 * Water Crystal
 * Wind Crystal
 * Merge Crystal Bit with Crystal King.
 * Mere Straw with Durmite.
 * Merge Tuff Puff with Huff N' Puff.
 * Merge Lava Piranha substituents with the parent plant.
 * Lava Bud
 * Petit Piranha
 * Merge other members of the "Big Bad Brute Bros." Glitzville team with Hamma Jamma.
 * Bamma (the discussion for both characters is held here)
 * Flare
 * Merge Tubba Blubba's Heart with Tubba Blubba
 * Convert Blue Toad into "Bucken-Berry", concerning only the blue Toad in New Super Mario Bros. Wii, with information concerning any other blue Toads being moved into Toad (species).
 * Convert Yellow Toad into "Ala-Gold", concerning only the yellow Toad in New Super Mario Bros. Wii, with information concerning any other yellow Toads being moved into Toad (species).
 * Merge Baby Yoshi into the Yoshi (species) article per previous proposal on differences between "baby" and "infant" characters/stages.
 * Reorganize Metal pages.
 * Merge Metal Wario with Metal Mario.
 * Split Metal Mario into two pages: one concerns Metal forms in general, such as those appearing in the Super Smash Bros. series and Metal Wario from Super Mario 64 DS; the other concerns the character, Metal Mario. The final titles of these pages has yet to be determined.

-
 * Would you mind if I expand on the descriptions myself, since I'm aware as to what the purpose of each is? Redstar 22:00, 18 December 2009 (EST)
 * Be my guest =) I still get to fix any wording or gammar I see fit after you make your additions, though. -
 * I believe that covers it more specifically. Redstar 23:16, 18 December 2009 (EST)
 * I reorganized the Metal Mario stuff to make it a bit more clear and succinct; between the naming issues and Metal Wario, however, I think that particular situation is muddled enough to merit a full-on proposal. That way, the discussion can be started fresh in a single location, and be sure to garner attention. Talk Page Proposals really should be limited to basic yes/no decisions on matters that are significant enough to require multiple users' approval before any action is taken. -
 * I've been leaning towards that myself. I'll put together a general proposal that trims how muddy that one is, cutting it down to the basic one of Metal Wario being merged into it. Redstar 23:44, 18 December 2009 (EST)

Removals
''None at the moment.

Split the colored enemies
It has come to my attention that while articles for each of the differently colored Yoshis exist, other colored variations of enemies, such as Toads and Shy Guys, do not. I know there's exeptions, but ignore those. Anyways, I ask this one question: why? For the Yoshis, there is very rarely a difference between them, as with the rest, yet they still get articles. If they get articles, so should the other characters.

So I'd like to see some character articles be created.

Proposer: Deadline: Wednesday, Dec. 23, 2009 (5:00 EST)

Create articles for colored characters

 * 1) What I said above.

Leave as it is

 * 1) The Yoshis get their very own artwork and some get their very own, distinguishable stats such as Super Mario World, Mario Super Sluggers, and Yoshi's Story. The Yellow Yoshi article even had a personality section and some colored Yoshis have notable Yoshis. The other colored characters that are not Toad or Yoshi do not have distinguishable traits other than the color.
 * 2) In Yoshi's Story the Black and White Yoshi like chilis while the others dont and per BLOF.
 * 3) - Are there significant differences between the different color Toads? I don' think so, the Yoshis have many differences, per BLOF.
 * 4) - Each differently-colored Yoshi has a different ability, which implies they are all varieties or sub-species of some sort. Different color for other species rarely means anything, so they shouldn't merit their own article unless they are as different as the Yoshi are. I do, however, while we're on the subject, feel the differently-colored species of other races should be merged within their main article. No difference besides skin color/clothing color, no need for own article.
 * 5) - We don't have enough information on differently coloured members of other species to create decent articles: all we'd be left with is hundreds of mostly speculatively-named stubs that essentially say the same thing ("X Y is a X coloured Y appearing in Z games."). At least differently coloured Yoshis have slightly different abilities, but then again, so might Birdos (depending on whether or not Super Mario Bros. 2 featured one recurring, colour-changing Birdo or many individuals - that's not entirely clear in itself), so I can see where this proposal's coming from. However, if a change has to be made, I say merging is the better option.
 * 6) - Per all. It needs to be decided on a case-by-case basis.
 * Per all.

Comments
@BLOF: In the Baseball games, tons of other colored characters appeared, all with different stats, so that's null and void. With Yellow Yoshi, it describes him as brave, but aren't all of them? All right, the hungriness of them is ok, but how about other Yoshi? You know, the ones that don't have any significant differences between them, such as Brown Yoshi, Light Blue Yoshi, Pink Yoshi, Purple Yoshi and Orange Yoshi? Very few differences between them.

@GF75: That information can easily be merged with the article. "All the Yoshis in Yoshi's Story posess the ability to eat the food and enemies in its path, although Black Yoshi and White Yoshi are able to eat Spiky Fruits, Peppers and Black Shy Guys". Of course, it'd be a lot more detailed.

@MG1: It varies between games. Also, what about the Yoshis I mentioned above?

@Redstar: Again, what about the Yoshis I mentioned above?
 * I'm sorry, but I don't know how I'm supposed to vote. Your proposal is about two things: merging the Yoshi pages and/or creating individual articles for differently-colored species. I think you should revise your proposal so I know if I'm voting for one thing or two things. Redstar 09:33, 17 December 2009 (EST)
 * All right.
 * I almost want to support merging all the different Yoshi colors to the Yoshi (species) article, but there's just so much much information that I couldn't bear cutting it to make it fit. I'm going to have to continue opposing unless you can provide a specific example of a differently-colored species that has enough differences between them attributable to their color that would warrant splitting. Redstar 10:37, 17 December 2009 (EST)

This proposal is pretty vague. If you give specific examples, it would be much more clear as to which exact articles you want split.

Reversinator: Yes, the different colored enemies did have different stats, but it's only in the baseball games. Same thing goes for Pink and Light Blue Yoshi, because they have distinguishable stats only in the baseball games as well. However, Red, Blue, and Yellow Yoshi have different stats in other games such as Super Mario World, and all Yoshis have likes and dislikes of fruit in Yoshi's Story. We can't merge just Pink, Brown, Orange, Purple and Light Blue Yoshi because this breaks consistency.


 * There's a million different Shy Guy colors and some only appear once. For example, here's an article that will be created if the proposal were to pass:

Cyan Shy Guy

The Cyan Shy Guy is a cyan colored Shy Guy (obviously) that only appears in Mario Kart Wii as an audience member.

Then the stub template will be placed here.

It doesn't make sense.

Change naming convention for power-up form articles
Currently, we define the articles for various forms of characters upon power-up with the title of "Form Mario". This is ultimately misleading because many characters besides Mario have been shown to make use of different power-ups and wear the same form, yet we choose to use Mario as the catch-all despite him not being the official name for such a form, only the original user and most widely-known transformer.

While this practice isn't necessarily bad, it has resulted in some confusion on how exactly to merge and split the articles relating to the metal form. For example, Metal Wario is currently being proposed to merge with Metal Mario due to the shared nature of those characters under that form. However, the Metal Mario page is also being proposed to be split with information on Metal Mario the character (as seen in the Super Smash Bros. series and other media as a playable character). The problem resulting from this is that there would be two "Metal Mario" articles, or at least two very similarly named ones, with one being "Metal Mario" and covering the form, and the other being "Metal Mario (character)", which are both too similar to avoid confusion.

Another problem arising from this standard in naming convention is the placement of alternate name tags at the top of the page. While these tags certainly serve their purpose, they are also an eye-sore. Seeing boxy tags of any kind at any point on a page makes me think the article is incomplete or under construction of some kind. It just pulls me out of the right mindframe of reading and enjoying an article.

What this proposal is hoping to achieve is to change the current naming standard to one that more clearly and generally explains the contents of an article, as well as remove the need for the above explained tag. Any form a character can become upon use of a power-up, such as Frog Mario, Metal Mario, Fire Mario, etc. will be re-named to "X Form".

Proposer: Deadline: December 26, 2009, 20:00

Change Naming Convention for Forms

 * 1) - Per proposal

Comments
What about merging the forms with the items that cause them? That way, we can avoid the unofficial "X Form" names. The only possible problem with this is if different items are used to make the same form in different games. The only example I could think of off the top of my head, however, is Dragon Wario, and I think Wario-series forms should remain unchanged anyway, seeing as those powerups aren't exactly the same as in the core Mario series (and they're always unique to Wario, so the arguments about duality don't apply to them). -
 * Mario becomes Metal Mario upon use of a Metal Cap, while Wario does so through use of a Power Flower... While I do support the idea, and have thought about it myself before, I'm not sure if that type of merge would sit well with the majority of people. It does make sense, however to have a single comprehensive on a power-up, followed by a second half detailing its use in different media. Not the most controversial merge-idea, but I'm sure some people wouldn't like it. Discussion, as always, and we'll see. Redstar 00:58, 19 December 2009 (EST)
 * I disagree with merging them with the power-ups; like Redstar pointed out, the forms can sometimes be caused by different power-ups. IIRC, the Fire/Super Mario transformation in the cartoons could be triggered by a Starman or even pasta. Not sure what to think about the renaming atm; it would get rid of the "alternative title" template thingy, but I'm not sure I like the "... Form" title very much. As far as I'm aware, manuals and strategy guides (at least older ones) have always used the "... Mario" naming scheme which we have on the Wiki right now (and if they didn't, they still used "... [character name]"); I'm not sure if "... Form" has ever been used in official sources. Imo, official terms should be used wherever they are known.--vellidragon 10:44, 19 December 2009 (EST)