Talk:Super Mario 3D World/Archive 1

New character?
Found a picture that has what appears to be a new character. Looks alot like Toad - http://images.vg247.com/current//2013/06/Super-Mario-3D-World-7.jpg --Paani (talk) 12:28, 11 June 2013 (EDT)
 * The big one looks like Yoshi crossed with Dorrie and the small one looks like a Pi'illo from Mario & Luigi: Dream Team.
 * The small one looks a bit like one of those Subcon creatures found at the end of SMB2. I think it's more likely to be a Subcon rather than a Pi'llow, seeing how characters that originated from RPG subgames rarely make an appearance in the main games.

"Yoshi-Like Eels"?
Why are they labeled as eels? The boss was clearly in a desert theme and looks a lot more like Tryclyde or a bunch of cobrats, not eels. UrsulaBoi (talk) 16:12, 11 June 2013 (EDT)

I agree, they look more like snakes, they aren't underwater. Yoshiyoshiyoshi (talk) 16:13, 11 June 2013 (EDT)

There's no need for talk sections like this. Anyway, snakes and eels kinda look like in Mario. MegaKoopa  Talk  21:03, 11 June 2013 (EDT)

Yeah, But the Snake King and that Orange dinosaur thingie need names like Pharoah Cobar of the Cobrats and Katsura the Dino. :)--Toonking2 (talk) 16:17, 29 August 2013 (EDT)

Two Toads?
In the Playable Character list, there it says Blue Toad and Toad. I know Blue Toad's playable, but is there a normal Toad as well? Is the any reference or external link that says so? or any image?
 * Regular Toad (red cap, blue vest) is shown as playable in the video, as well. I'm assuming the player who chooses Toad can select a color (default; blue; possibly yellow) as a nod to the fact that there's multiple colors of toads. That makes the most sense, anyway. UrsulaBoi (talk) 16:21, 11 June 2013 (EDT)
 * Remember how Paper Mario: TTYD has sidequests? Regular Toad could have a sidequesr but that is simply speculation. We should find out between now and this December.--Holyromanemperortatan (talk) 16:45, 11 June 2013 (EDT)
 * No. That kind of thing only happens in RPG Mario.  It's probably Brigade Captain in singleplayer and NSMBW Blue Toad as an equivelant character in multiplayer so there isn't color conflicts.  98.215.11.137 10:50, 15 June 2013 (EDT)  Pre-registration comment by  Rot8er_ConeX

No, Blue toad is the only one playable. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JooUqPF2Lf4 Yoshiyoshiyoshi (talk) 17:37, 11 June 2013 (EDT) And that's the Toad Brigade captain anyway, not Toad.
 * The 'Toad Brigade Captain' is Toad (the Mushroom Retainer), just under a different name and with a helmet-light on his head. 98.215.11.137 10:50, 15 June 2013 (EDT) Pre-registration comment by:  Rot8er_ConeX

I'm thinking there won't be a yellow Toad since the color of his cat suit would be the same as Mario's.--Paani (talk) 02:17, 12 June 2013 (EDT)

For now, nothing can told that the blue Toad is Toad himself, as long as trailers don't show everything from the game. It's better to describe the playable one as the Blue Toad while the Toad as unconfirmed status. --Dorayaki (talk) 11:45, 21 June 2013 (EDT)

I saw the Brigade Captain also in 4-2. For the video, see ultimately on the downside of this discussion, where also potted piranha plants are mentioned.

This is the brigade captain
http://www.mariowiki.com/images/d/dc/SM3DWtower.png He has a light and backpack...But the icon shows Toad. The only screen he's showed in, it might be some kind of bonus game? Yoshiyoshiyoshi (talk) 18:26, 11 June 2013 (EDT)

I'm having doubts about the identity of Toad in this game. I initially thought that the Blue Toad we saw was the same Toad New Super Mario Bros. Wii and New Super Mario Bros. U, but in the same gameplay and Iwata have simply called Toad. If you remember in some version of Super Mario Bros. 2, Toad the original was blue instead of red so I thought the Toad Super Mario 3D World is the original Toad or Blue Toad the games mentioned before?--Sonic98 (talk) 11:07, 12 June 2013 (EDT)

If should be noted that even in official introductions the producers and writers still call both Yellow and Blue Toads "Kinopio" regardless that Toad is a name for individual. So the words of mouth can't be references unless the official director explains it deliberately. --Dorayaki (talk) 11:45, 21 June 2013 (EDT)

Frog Mario
Is it best to remove frog mario to the page until it is comfirmed that the form will appear cause they made a joke to cat luigi that his frog suit is in and he can use his tounge http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/news/34589 gamermakerguy
 * Indeed. I agree this should be removed. Nothing proves this, and it should be taken out of the 3D World template. User:8BrickMario
 * All new information should come from official sources, not from Twitter pages. Same goes for new information for Super Smash Bros. 4. Just to let you know. 19:42, 13 June 2013 (EDT)

Will someone please remove it from the template? It doesn't belong with no proof! User:8BrickMario
 * I know this was made months ago, but I have now taken care of it.

Thanks! User:8BrickMario

World 2-1
A few E3 gameplay videos (like GameXplain's and IGN's) says World 2-1 is also called "Mice Hills". Is there any more examples of this? DonnyKD (talk) 00:55, 14 June 2013 (EDT)

Tanooki Mario
I have seen confirmation that Tanooki Mario is in this game in text, but no pictures so far. But my main question is, if we know he's in the game, can we assume the Super Leaf will be in it, too, since that's the powerup that generates it in Super Mario 3D Land? 98.215.11.137 18:28, 15 June 2013 (EDT) Pre-registration comment by  Rot8er_ConeX
 * I would assume so, but you never know they may decide to have a different item.

Of course the Super Leaf will be in it. That's like wondering if a fire flower will be in after seeing Fire Mario. Yoshiyoshiyoshi (talk) 14:42, 16 June 2013 (EDT)
 * I completely believe it will return, but it hasn't been confirmed, yet.


 * I'm agreeing with Yoshi876 here: for whatever reason EAD Tokyo could decide to make the Tanooki Suit item from Super Mario Bros. 3 make a reappearance, though if they do, I'm betting it'd be for Statue Tanooki Mario, not (False) Tanooki Mario.  98.215.11.137 16:28, 16 June 2013 (EDT)  Pre-registration comment by  Rot8er_ConeX

Do we have sources telling or showing the Super Leaf or Tanooki Mario? If not we need a source otherwise we remove the information. We can't just assume that they will add it in. It was like when we expected Hammer Mario in 3D land since we had boomerang mario yet Hammer Mario never appeared in 3D land.

Release Date
I would like to see proof that the Release date is valid. 11:12, 6/18/2013 (EDT)


 * Here you go: http://au.ign.com/articles/2013/10/01/super-mario-3d-world-release-date-announced. -- SuperPiz zaLuigi   (talk)

Question Box
Could we add "Question Boxes" to the list of items in-game? There's a gameplay video of world 2-1 where Peach hits a ? Block enough times that it eventually stays on her head for a while and produces coins as she moves for a period of time, just like the ones in 3D Land and New Super Mario Bros 2. If links are allowed, the video is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56NukD6QGBc - the incident in question starts at about 1:58. 15:45 June 19, 2013

Multiplayer and Warp Pipes
Using the same video link as my statement above, I'd also like to suggest adding this: According to the demos shown, in multiplayer, if more than one player enters a Warp Pipe, any other players are automatically transformed into balls of light and follow the other players onto the next screen. This was only shown in 4-player mode as far as I know, though. So it may be somewhat different in 2- or 3-player mode. 15:51 June 19, 2013

Carryable Enemies
In one review, i saw Blue Toad carrying a potted Piranha Plant. see here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYZcEnFNjRU. It starts at about 2:56, and the aformentioned Toad Brigade Captain is first seen at 3:38. writer unknown. 15:05 June 23, 2013. (Edited later by to give this a fitting title).

First Time Playable
Should it be noted that it is Peach and (a) Toad's first playable 3D appearance, as well as first since SMB2? User:8BrickMario
 * I believe it is mentioned and if it's not then it has been removed for a good reason.

Kuribo's Shoe
http://images.wikia.com/fantendo/images/3/37/Super-mario-3d-world-goomba.jpg

In that image, Mario and Luigi are seen in a shoe, as well as the Goomba. Could this be the Kurbio's Shoe? Or are these just ice skates? I'm not sure whether the image is official. In the bottom right it says "Vandal" but I can't find anything of that, whatever it is.
 * It got shown in the official trailer, so it could just be a website putting their mark on it to say that image has been on their website, but at the moment I believe we're treating it as a separate item as ice skates are slightly different from shoes, but I'm sure that information will change as more details about the game are revealed.

Toad or Blue Toad?
Originally everyone says he's THE Toad, but now it's changed to Blue Toad. And soon there's probably going to be a person who will change it back to Toad. Also, there's information about the Toad's appearance in 3D World in Toad's article. So which Toad is it? Should there be a proposal for this?
 * Iwata referred to this blue Toad as Toad, so people assume that it's Toad. 14:07, 6 July 2013 (EDT)
 * Iwata just said "Toad" because its a catch-all term, since there's no definite reason to call him otherwise. The Blue Toad also can't be THE Toad since THE Toad is not only a seperate playable character, but is also in the Clear Pipes of World 4. DonnyKD (talk) 17:39, 6 July 2013 (EDT)

All sources released for the game from articles and official game descriptions including the game itself names this character as "Toad". In the character selection screen, this Toad is named as "Toad", and not "Blue Toad" as the NSMB games have. Additionally, the game's throwback to SMB2 would imply that this Toad is Toad with blue references to his SMB2 sprite. Additionally, from a small clip we can't tell if it was the Toad Brigade Captain that was shown in that small preview. 01:07, 7 July 2013 (EDT)
 * The Toad in SMB2 may be Toad with blue spots, but the playable Toad is definitely Blue Toad. And clearer videos like IGN's E3 walkthrough have World 4-2 and you can see the Toad Brigade Captain in the last pipe before the flagpole. DonnyKD (talk) 20:56, 7 July 2013 (EDT)
 * Yes, that was the Toad Brigade captain in the Clear Pipe (who I forgot was THE Toad, according to this page), so I agree that the blue Toad is, well, Blue Toad. Also, if you look at the picture with the captain, you can see in the life icon in the top left corner that he is wearing a red cap and blue vest. 01:02, 8 July 2013 (EDT)

Singleplayer Characters?
Is it known if Luigi, Toad and Peach are playable in singleplayer at all? I assume Luigi would be unlockable, unless you could choose from one of the four from the start?


 * If it's taking as much inspiration from Super Mario Bros. 2 as I think it is, I'd say yes, but I don't believe Nintendo have made any statements towards this yet.

Yes, they are. There is video of Peach playing alone and it is implied that Peach and Blue Toad will be for beginner and expert players, respectively. --Moolala (talk) 17:09, 14 July 2013 (EDT) Ah, yes I forgot about that clip with the ant enemies. Thanks! User:8BrickMario

Invincibility
The invincibility can be shared by touching another player. Anyone going to add this info or is it up to me? --Shroobtimetraveller (talk) 04:43, 17 July 2013 (EDT)
 * No-one's stopping you from adding it.

SMBX Similarity
That potted Piranha Plant used to eat other Piranha Plants so reminds me of Toothy, a small holdable rainbow colored pipe with a blue Piranha Plant that can break blocks and defeat other enemies in the PC fan game Super Mario Bros. X. This just may be a common idea too.


 * Well since it's a fan game, I don't think it's worth mentioning on the article unless it's confirmed that the idea came from there. MarioComix (talk) 15:28, 21 September 2013 (EDT)

Toad clarification
So... the Blue Toad is the actual character Blue Toad? Or is it the character Toad recolored SMB2 style? I'm confused.

13:48, 1 October 2013 (EDT)

I think it's the Blue Toad The. The original Toad is one of the two Galaxy that appears in various trailers and one level of the E3 demo. --Sonic98 (talk) 14:06, 1 October 2013 (EDT)

You guys have to remember that all official sources for this game name this one Toad specifically as "TOAD". It's not Blue Toad in any of the source material naming this character, but Toad as in homage to Mario, Luigi, Peach, and Toad from SMB2. He is coloured blue, yes; however, do take into account that he is never referred to as Blue Toad in any official sources as well as the game itself. Heck, he even has Toad's abilities from SMB2!

Being coloured as blue to being a tribute to Toad's original NES sprite from the NES or making further differences from Mario might be a factor; however, at this moment the character is referred to as Toad. As for the toad that resembles the Toad Brigade captain - there has yet to be a name for this character yet. It's never even confirmed if he is the captain from the Toad Brigade. For official source purposes, I think it's best we name the blue toad as "Toad". - User:Pichufan93 03:06, 2 October 2013 (EDT)
 * I agree with Pichufan93 here. However, this weekend I will go and find every official source from Nintendo on this and will then bring my final judgement.

Bullies?
Are these things the Bullies from Super Mario 64?

http://nintendo3dsdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Bullies.jpg

Because you can see them on the official website and such like, and they appear to be the same species.

The only real difference seems to be the horns facing forward, which honestly makes sense seeing as how you can jump on them, so yeah, I think they are Bullies. Looking at it, I think that armor boss may also be a bully, but thats just speculation. ~Chaoxys

Stubborn Images
There are a few images that I can't save on the Japanese Official Website. Specifically the pages with "introduction" in the URL. There is a better quality stamp picture and supporting stamp pictures on the "introduction_5" page. Hopefully someone can figure out how to get them because I've tried all the tricks I know. 21:59, 1 October 2013 (EDT)
 * Printscreen.


 * The pictures are behind text and overlap each other. It is better if the actual files can be accessed. 12:52, 2 October 2013 (EDT)


 * Is this what you wanted?
 * Picture 1
 * Picture 2
 * Picture 3
 * If you'd like anymore pictures from that website feel free to let me know. -- SuperPiz zaLuigi   (talk)


 * Thank you so much for getting those! Yes, those 3 pictures were the main pictures that I wanted to back up the Stamp page! There might be a few more images from the other "introduction" pages that would be useful as well. 18:13, 5 October 2013 (EDT)

There are a few interesting screenshots on "introduction_1" through to "introduction_4". Is it possible to get the stamp on "introduction_5"? 18:28, 5 October 2013 (EDT)


 * Yep, I'll get them for you soon. -- SuperPiz zaLuigi   (talk)


 * That would be great! 22:00, 5 October 2013 (EDT)


 * Here you are!


 * Download at Mediafire
 * View at Photobucket -- SuperPiz zaLuigi   (talk)


 * After figuring out that RAR is a ZIP type file and extracting the files, they look great! Thanks so much for doing that! 23:29, 5 October 2013 (EDT)


 * You're welcome! -- SuperPiz zaLuigi   (talk)

Purple Blocks?
From 5:05-5:11 of this trailer: it looks like there are 2 purple blocks on either sides of 2 question blocks. They sound like glass shattering, when they are hit. 22:15, 1 October 2013 (EDT)

Official Site Background Music?
Can anyone record the theme tune for the game from the Japanese official site here?

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/wiiu/ardj/index.html

Because it's in the flash file, hence the only way to record it is to use one of those audio chords from one computer/system to another.

And I don't think it has any sound effects in, so it could be useful to upload.


 * I'm ripping them now.


 * 08:31, 2 October 2013 (EDT)

I uploaded it at Mediafire if anyone wants it: http://www.mediafire.com/download/d4982c8ftmnzx69/Super+Mario+3D+World+-+Intro+Tune.mp3 -- SuperPiz zaLuigi   (talk)

Those lava creatures
Could they possibly be Blarggs from Super Mario World instead of Magmaarghs? I'm not saying they are, but come on, they look a lot more like the dinosaur/dragon style Blarggs from the former than the weird lava blob monsters from the Galaxy series, and it'd go really well with the 'Super Mario World' theme this game seems to have going.

Angry Pink Blocks
Those are enemies I believe. It was shown that they hurt on contact and can be defeated with the Potted Piranha Plant. Just mentioning it since the page says that they are objects.

~Chaoxys


 * Yeah... and I suppose lava, and spikes are enemies? They hurt you as well --82.3.247.25 21:01, 3 October 2013 (EDT)

Bowser's Highway
Is Bowser's Highway really confirmed to be World 1-Castle? MegaKoopa  Talk  17:48, 2 October 2013 (EDT)


 * That's what I was wondering. I guess this is one of those Super Mario Wiki traditions where they just make up crap. Like how they insisted that those things that look NOTHING like Chargin' Chucks in Super Mario Galaxy 2, were Chargin' Chucks.--82.3.247.25 20:59, 3 October 2013 (EDT)


 * I'm inclined to presume that the above comment exemplifies one of those times where anonymous users talk asinine crap.


 * 02:36, 4 October 2013 (EDT)
 * Yes, it is confirmed in various of the new gameplay videos, specifically GameTrailer's and some reviewer on Twitter also said so. It's heavily inferred/implied too, like honestly, don't be a dick about it. -Mechawave (talk) 17:18, 4 October 2013 (EDT)

Piranhacus Giganticus or Super Piranha Plant?
How do we know the giant Piranha Plant that has the shadow is a Piranhacus Giganticus and not a Super Piranha Plant? There are "Prickly Piranha Plant with stretchy stems" underwater so it may be a Prickly Piranha Plant but that is speculation.--Holyromanemperortatan (talk) 22:47, 2 October 2013 (EDT)

Classic Controller support?
I don't see any reference saying 3D World can be played with a Classic Controller... this is kinda weird though. Also, I'm referring to the Wii controller not the Wii U one 12:12, 3 October 2013 (EDT)

Look here: http://www.nintendo.co.uk/Games/Wii-U/SUPER-MARIO-3D-WORLD-765385.html on the right side under "Controller". 14:51, 3 October 2013 (EDT)

Cosmic Observatory
It is confirmed to appear in the group artwork...so shouldn't it be added to the list of locations?

If you didn't look at it hard enough you can tell that it is way far from being the Comet observatory. It is actually a circus looking place. 17:09, 4 October 2013 (EDT)

Oops I was wrong... But please be specific like it is far off in the distance. But it isn't worth mentioning since it might just be a cameo. 17:14, 4 October 2013 (EDT)
 * It is definitely worth mentioning, as it appears on the box. It being a cameo is speculation at this point, as we don't know if it will be a location in the game or just seen in the distance. For all we know, Pom Pom could be a cameo since we have no gameplay of her. -- bluereddarkorangegreenpurple

Names for the Snake King and an Orange Dinosaur
Did Shigeru Miyamoto and his helpers in Nintendo give names to the Snake King, his Serpent-like Minions and the Orange Dinosaur yet? Because they have to have names. --Toonking2 (talk) 16:49, 4 October 2013 (EDT)
 * The game isn't released yet. -- bluereddarkorangegreenpurple

Toad Houses confirmed
in this video http://www.gametrailers.com/videos/8l1rz5/super-mario-3d-world-gameplay-walkthrough-part-1--cam- in the minute 0:15 can be clearly seen, also get to see the path that leads to it. so it I can add Toad Houses in the article?

World 2 Castle
I heard from a YouTuber that the level Bowser's Bullet Bill Brigade is the. Castle level for World 2. This matches a lot of other details, such as that the level is dessert themed. I don't have permission to put that edt on the main page, so could someone no that for me? AegisCamera (talk) 21:00, 4 October 2013 (EDT)
 * Has it been officially confirmed? If not, it is speculation, which is not allowed on articles. bluereddarkorangegreenpurple

Ok. But I do think that the level should be relabeled as a castle rather than fortress because the footage shows that there's a yellow Sprixie at the end.AegisCamera (talk) 11:38, 5 October 2013 (EDT)

World 1-5
There's a problem, according to 2 sources there are World 1-5s, the Dorrie level and the circus level. Which one is it, IGN says Dorrie level, other source says circus level.

What's the other source? I would say that IGN is definitely one of the most reliable sources out there. AegisCamera (talk) 10:58, 5 October 2013 (EDT)
 * This http://www.gametrailers.com/videos/8l1rz5/super-mario-3d-world-gameplay-walkthrough-part-1--cam- Though I heavily agree with you on IGN.

I think I figured it out. The Dorrie was World 1-5 in the beta version that was at E3. Now the circus level is 1-5, and the Dorrie level is 1-4.AegisCamera (talk) 12:02, 5 October 2013 (EDT)
 * Makes sense.

Dry Bones with With wings
So those Winged Dry Bones. . . Are they called "ParaDry-Bones"?
 * The game is not released yet, so none of the new enemies have an official name yet.

Trivia
The "trivia" about enemies making their first 3D debut in a Mario platformer is barely worth noting because it's overtly specific. With a specific tone like this, the Super Mario Galaxy article would have its trivia section cluttered with stuff such as "This is the first time 4 legged Koopa Troopas appear in a 3D Mario platformer game." Specific pieces of trivia such as the Charging Chucks making their first appearance in years is NOT trivia; it belongs RIGHT in the Charging Chuck article under the header "Super Mario 3D World", as with the rest of the characters/objects/items/whatever that made their first appearance in years. As for the trivia of Peach and Toad being playable, just look at how damn specific it is, plus the use of "mainstream" to describe "Mario platformer" as if there was some canon argument implied in there. Mario platformer articles shouldn't be exempt from this as much as putting this piece of trivia in other Mario games would make it look overly obvious and stupid. And my final point that none of these really have much to do with the game itself anyway, save this for the specific character articles specifically created for them in the first place. 15:27, 6 October 2013 (EDT)
 * The fact that Fire Bros. and Spikes, who first appeared decades ago, making their first 3D Mario game appearance, Chargin' Chucks making an appearance after about 20 years, and Peach making her first mainstream playable appearance is all trivial to SM3DW. It is not "overly specific", and even if it was, that does not defy the definition of trivia. Trivia means "Details, considerations, or pieces of information of little importance or value". These facts are of little importance to the actual article, however, are notable enough to belong in the trivia section. If it was something like "So and so makes it's first 3D appearance after being introduced in a game 7 months ago.", that would be too small of a span to belong in the trivia. Also, your argument about Baby Luigi is both pathetic and does not relate to this. Mario Kart does not count as a "3D Game", as those would be Super Mario 64/Sunshine/Galaxy/Galaxy 2/3D Land/3D World. It may be 3D, but it is not considered a 3D game. bluereddarkorangegreenpurple
 * Well, how about in Super Mario Galaxy, where is the mention of Magikoopas making their first 3D appearance in a Mario game. Oh that's right, it's NOWHERE to be found in the trivia section of the article. Same with the 4-legged Koopa Troopas. There are enemies that first appeared decades ago and finally made an appearance in a game: Super Smash Bros. Melee for example has Freezies. This sort of stuff belongs in "References to Games" NOT in the trivia section of such articles. The dictionary definition of "trivia" does not apply to the section called "Trivia" in MarioWiki: the Trivia section is small information that is intuitive and interesting for viewers; usually these home Easter Eggs or other thought provoking stuff. It is NOT a place where you dump "this is the first time a random enemy appeared since several games ago". Also, why doesn't Super Mario Galaxy also cite Cheep Cheep and Bloopers making their first 3D game appearance? And you use "mainstream" as a description for 3D Mario platformers, a surefire way to lose an argument since the adjective "mainstream" implies there is a canoncity in Mario games (there isn't). Peach had been playable in Super Princess Peach before, and many other Mario games, it's just that they're not freaking "mainstream" or not a 3D Mario platformer, so they don't deserve mention. And you missed my point about Baby Luigi: Mario Kart Double Dash IS the first game that has Baby Luigi in 3D and that he's playable and has a voice, yet this is all covered in a respective section. Another example is not having trivia for Toadette's appearance in Mario Kart 8. Same thing should go for other characters. Your logic is even more flawed than mine. 19:19, 6 October 2013 (EDT)
 * I don't know why those don't appear in the trivia sections, but in my opinion they should. Also, the definition of trivia does apply to the trivia section. It is where minor, seemingly unimportant yet notable and interesting bits of information is listed. I am not dumping "this is the first time a random enemy appeared since several games ago" into trivia. Fire Bros. are a major enemy in the Mario series, and are appearing in a 3D main Mario game for the first time since they appeared 20 years ago. Like I said, it would be different for some odd enemy from a spin-off who is making a 3D appearance after a few years and one appearance. I guess, with that, Chargin' Chuck's part is debatable, however, the Fire Bro./Spike and Princess Peach parts belong. And I didn't use mainstream as a very, eh, specific word, I used it in place of main. It may have been a miss-use of the word, but I'm pretty sure you could tell that. And, going off from that, Super Princess Peach is not a Super Mario game, it's a spin-off. I didn't "miss your point", I was saying it does not relate to this. The Mario Kart games are not main games, and are not classified with the "3D Mario", which refers to 3D main games. For Princess Peach, it is the fact that she is one of the main Mario characters, and she previously was playable, however, it was 25 years ago. And she generally plays a role as the NPC damsel-in-distress, however, she is now a playable character. Toadette's appearance in MK8 is also debatable. It is her first appearance after over 5 years, but that is small compared to Chargin' Chuck's 20-ish. But, like I said, I don't think CC's necessarily belongs. Also, I fail to see how my logic is flawed. I see these points as being trivial enough for the trivia section, and I stated why, and I don't see how my reasons are that wrong, really. I honestly don't see why this is turning into an argument. Just get an admin's input or something. =/ bluereddarkorangegreenpurple