MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/1

Wiki
None

Forum
}}
 * 1) Hk
 * 2) Silent but deadly! SuperLuigi821 You lost everything. Way to go genious.
 * 3) I agree. Forum should be used more. Plus there are a lot of wiki glitches. Sorry, but I   am   Confused  23:44, 29 May 2007 (EDT)
 * 4) Original plan, and how it's going to stay.
 * 5) This plan seems better... Think of all the annoying edit conflicts that could happen on the wiki.
 * 6) Edit conflicts made me choose this.
 * 1) Edit conflicts made me choose this.
 * 1) Edit conflicts made me choose this.

Move Chat
TIE 4-4 Troll mentioned has died down, thus result is KEEP ON WIKI

In order to deter trollers and protect this silly little anniversary thing, it has come to the attention of many that the chat should be moved back to the forums. This move has not previously been opposed, it has merely been put off.
 * Unfortunately, this might lower the number of users in chat. If enough users support with strong supporting arguments, we may get this through the system at a higher speed.
 * This would deter trolls in the future.
 * No real troll attack on the anniversary thing.

Proposer: Hk Deadline: 17:00, 6 June

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Let it lie where it is

 * 1) – The chat needs to be open to everyone – compromise could be for Steve to unlock the restriction on the forum.
 * 2) Stumpers It's much more appealing where it is... I mean you just click. Boom.
 * 3) Bottle Wizzerd - Nobody can troll forever. :/
 * 4) --Shyster 19:01, 4 June 2007 (EDT)-I think willy is gone for good. Bottle Wizzerd is right too.

Move Chat to Forum

 * 1) Hk-As is said, many users are for this change, and this will definitely deter trolls.
 * 2) Keeps trollers away from forum, some might not even know where the forum is
 * 3) While it is more convenient to use the Wiki Chat, the Forum Chat is less suceptible to hacking and random IP chatting. Sorry, but I   am   Confused  21:31, 30 May 2007 (EDT)
 * 4) Forums, without a doubt. It'd prevent spammers and the like. If one is too lazy to simply go to the forums and access the chat, then they shouldn't be on it. Eggbert

Comments People seem to believe this Willy guy is going away soon. Take a look-- he's been here forever. One of the first big things I did on this wiki a year ago was move pages back to their rightful name after Willy had his first bout of fun. He ISN'T going anywhere.
 * This is what it says in the block log about Willy: 07:55, 18 June 2006 Porplemontage (Talk | contribs | block) blocked "Willy on Wheels (contribs)" with an expiry time of infinite (troll), and that was about a year ago. He's struck several more times, and keeps coming back.
 * This Willy is another Willy who idolizes the first one. 20:32, 30 May 2007 (EDT)
 * There have also been several other past Willy attacks that follow the same same pattern, plus Silly Dan, plus StarNeptune, equals Willy won't quit. Besides, Plumber, think of the horrible nasty things hes said about YOUR sister. Although, the entire thing could be WarioLoaf.
 * Personally, Willy and all who worship him will never calm down. There is no educating the unreasonable.
 * Exactly. How many of us have tried to reason with ALttP and failed? The unreasonable are, and I tried hard to figure out how to phrase this, but there really isn't a word, un-educatable.
 * We have successfully reasoned with Willy already, and he wants to be a good user. I stopped him, also by reacting normally and continuing his remarks like he was starting a conversation. 20:50, 30 May 2007 (EDT)
 * Supposedly, in chat, he said that he wanted to become a good user, but can't control himself. Then he said something about p***s and p**p, so we don't believe him that much. >_<
 * You reasoned with him? I doubt it.
 * We talked to him, but I doubt he'll do anything to reform.
 * I wonder why nobody trusts anybody? 20:57, 30 May 2007 (EDT)
 * Its tough to trust someone who acts like Willy. Savvy?
 * He's had a lot of chances, and blew them all.
 * 3D, vote for the change.
 * Maxlover2 had a lot of chances and blew them all but one. 21:05, 30 May 2007 (EDT)
 * OK, we know. But this guy, I beleive, will never change. And I think the chat should stay where it is. We can just kick Willy when we comes.
 * Maxlover2 isn't a troll.
 * When he first cmae here, he knew none of the rules. Like me.
 * And me. Maxlover2 was a troll, on Wikipedia. He came here to spam, but 3D was nice to him, so he stopped. 21:11, 30 May 2007 (EDT)

Seriously? Wow. Anyway, I personally beleive he is a spammer, and a spammer he will stay. Sorry. Look at Peachycakes!
 * Look, Willy is a buffoon, and he won't stop. Look at what he said to your sister, he's a sick freak, how can you forgive him?
 * And all that stuff about "My p3|\|15 grows like ice cream" and "I like to eat creamy p**p".... AAAH! IT'S SICK!
 * Personally, I never had a problem before on the forum. Plus, on the forum, it is required to give out e-mail confirmation. I don't think Willy is dumb enough to give out his e-mail just to harrass us. Sorry, but I   am   Confused  21:31, 30 May 2007 (EDT)

Is there any need to still have this proposal? Willy was unmasked and is gone for good, so there's no need to move the chat anywhere now... o.o ~ Bottle Wizzerd
 * Is he really gone for good this time?
 * You must really tell me all about it, but not now, for it grows late.
 * And yes, Wizzerd, the proposal stays open anyway so we can find out what the people want.
 * He IS gone for good, it was WL the whole time, seemingly. And the opinions now are flawed, since the main problem was Willy. He's gone now, so I don't think all opinions are accurate now. ~ Bottle Wizzerd
 * WL was NEVER Willy. The addreses never matched.

}}

PAIR
ACCEPTED 8-0

Panel for Article Improvement and Recognition This acronym has nothing to do with the purpose of this feature, it's just something easy to remember. Credit to Hk for name :D

PAIR is the new [proposed] system to replace Peer Reviews, which were scrapped after no edits. Credit to Stumpers for inspiration/beginnings of the idea behind the system. It partially would use the "FlaggedRevs" extension on MediaWiki, which will work when MediaWiki version 1.11 will come out (we are on 1.10 right now). That is, if this is voted in, we can wait for 1.11 to come out (it can come out at any time), or start ahead of time, doing things manually. Let me explain the basis for how this will work:
 * Any user who has been on the wiki for a certain amount of time (3 months?) and who has at least a certain amount of edits (500?) will be able to "review" a revision of an article for accuracy (all facts are true), depth (details, everything needed present), and readability (grammar/spelling, flow of sentences) on a scale of either 1-4 or Low, Medium, High, and Exceptional. This user right is called "editor".
 * A user assigned by bureaucrats [me] the "reviewer" user right will be able to validate these reviews and make it official. The revision is now called "stable", and in the article a link to the last stable version is provided in a tab. Additionally, reviewers will be able to review articles the highest rates possible (4/Exceptional), while editors are limited up to 3/High. These users would be chosen for activeness and major contributions to articles, showing their writing prowess here and can be trusted with properly reviewing an article.
 * A combination of 3-6 editors and/or reviewers should work on an article, with at least 2 reviewers. Enough so that there's input, but not too much or it becomes a vote like previously.
 * Any comments should go in a section of the talk page – a template would signify this.
 * When two reviewers finds that the accuracy, depth and readability are all at 4/Exceptional, the article can be nominated for FA status.

By manually, reviews would be temporarily done on the talk page until 1.11 comes out.

Proposer: (started by ) Deadline: 17:00, 13 June {{scroll box|content=

Use the System

 * 1) – everyone is laid out fairly, efficient, plenty of capable users to make the system work consistently
 * 01:28, 7 June 2007 (EDT) Well, I'm a little confused on the specifics, and it might be too complex, but y'know what? We won't know until we try, so full steam ahead IMO.  Heh, heh... I'm voting for an idea I started... I feel kinda cheat-ish.  Thanks for working out the details Wayoshi!
 * 1) - Sounds fair. But we'll have to see if we can concentrate on the same article long enough to have a proper result.
 * 2) This may just be perfect.
 * 3) I helped design the system, actually. Wayoshi modified my details.
 * 4) – If this doesn't work out, we can alway go back to the old way.
 * 1) – If this doesn't work out, we can alway go back to the old way.

Comments
This is probably too early to tell, but here's what I'm worried about, and it's inspired by Cobold's point. For this to be effective, we're going to have to make this system as fast as possible so people don't get bored. Are there any ways that we could trim down on the system? It might work as is, but I just don't want to have it go for a bad run and then have everyone abandon it like the Peer Reviews. It also might help if we could see this visually, like with a diagram. Who knows, though. Maybe all this needs is just a chance to see the system in motion. In any case, I think this is our best bet to keep the FAs. 12:59, 7 June 2007 (EDT)
 * What we need is for everyone to make an effort and get involved. There's nothing we can do if no one tries. Reviewers especially should watch pages they review (I may force is as a default) and continually look at their watch pages for updates. The editors/users may be responsible for contacting a reviewer to review/validate an article for FA nomination. 16:18, 7 June 2007 (EDT)
 * How about we stick a section on the main page that features the current under-review articles? That might get people's attention, especially if it's one they worked on ;)  21:49, 7 June 2007 (EDT)
 * This proposal has reached its deadline. What now? - 09:15, 14 June 2007 (EDT)
 * Well its 8-0 in favor of having it, so it get accepted. But from what I heard we need a mediawiki extension. 10:28, 14 June 2007 (EDT)
 * Sweet... well, as usual, if you need any help, please let me know. :) 14:59, 14 June 2007 (EDT)

}}

Monitor Cursing
MONITOR 12-2

Cursing is a nasty thing, and there are children on this site. Should it be banned officially?

Proposer: Deadline: 20:00, 16 June {{scroll box|content=

Ban it hard

 * 1) -Its a nasty thing.
 * 2) Pokemon DP - Yes, I say definitely get rid of it.
 * 3) Agreed, last thing you'll need is some parent griping about what their kid learned here. Eggbert
 * 4) Maybe for the wiki and discussion, but I think that some (as long as it's not too bad) should be allowed on the forums and chat. Hisak
 * 5) I'd like to see curse words totally purged from this wiki, whether it be in userspace, chat, the forum, or anything.
 * 6) It should only be permitted when in a quote from the Marioverse or when referring to the location hell, or as the description "hellish" etc. Also, people should be allowed to use ****, *bleep*, etc. on userpages for humorous reasons only, but never like, "You are a ****" because we're smart enough to fill in the blanks. --Stumpers lol, I'm kinda moderate on this... maybe I should be in a third category.
 * 7) RickyMario: Cursing? Get rid of it! I am only 12 and I hate cursing!
 * 8) Get rid of it.
 * 9) Words liek Hell seem to be ok... I swear a lot, but swearing on a Mario wiki? COME ON!
 * 1) RickyMario: Cursing? Get rid of it! I am only 12 and I hate cursing!
 * 2) Get rid of it.
 * 3) Words liek Hell seem to be ok... I swear a lot, but swearing on a Mario wiki? COME ON!

What'd be the point?

 * 1) I don't cuss, but I don't see the point of banning it, either.  Why is it that a person can say "idiot" but not "asshole"?  What makes the latter word more offensive than the first?  They both mean the same thing! Waluigi Freak 99 16:17, 3 June 2007 (EDT)
 * 2) Ultimatetoad

Comments
This is really just to get some use out of the system, as we all have enough foresight to determine the results on this one.

It depends on how extreme some of the words are. Maybe only if the word is actually used in the Marioverse ("Hell" in the DK Rap), but that's the only exception. Actually, "Hell" isn't too bad, since The Underwhere is modelled after it. But again, only when necessary, if ever. Booster
 * Boosty, it should never be necessary.
 * I agree, but what should we do in the rare case where it's actually appropriate (DK Rap)? Booster
 * Heck, I dunno. Use that word there. Heck.

There's no word censor in MediaWiki. I'm not sure if there is an extension for one. 14:29, 3 June 2007 (EDT)
 * This would be a personal challenge for users, and the entire community would need to make a conscious effort on each and everyone's own part. Plug-ins don't solve everything, and really shouldn't.
 * Take that back. 14:36, 3 June 2007 (EDT)
 * Lol. No. :P
 * This isn't a laughing matter. You're criticizing the reliability of an extension, a piece of coding. 14:41, 3 June 2007 (EDT)
 * If coding is so powerful, why can't it do all the work? I wasn't insulting it or its reliability. Just citing the fact that they can't do EVERYTHING, and probably shouldn't.
 * WF99, please take away the offensive comment. The second is traditionally considered vulgar and unnacceptable in modern society.
 * But we can't say that the rap's line was "He's one heck of a guy!" That would be a lie.  Something like writing "scared the h*** out of him" shouldn't be permitted of course, but as a referrence to the location, I think that's fine.  However, before using it, we should consider comparisons to the Netherworld, which is a place in the Marioverse (see Shadow Queen). --Stumpers
 * HK, why is it traditionally considered vulgar? It means the same thing as "idiot", which is not traditionally considered vulgar.  Who decided that it is unacceptable?  Some guy somewhere?  As I said, I don't cuss, but I don't see anything wrong with it, and I don't allow my activities to fringe upon the decisions of some guy somewhere.Waluigi Freak 99 13:08, 4 June 2007 (EDT)
 * I absoulutely understand where you are coming from Mr. Freak (Can I call you that?). All I'm saying is that in today's society, idiot is considered a milder version.
 * The thing is, neither word belongs on the writing portion of this Wiki except in quotes from characters, people, etc. However, if you guys wanted to use it on your talk pages (not to each other, I would hope) I don't know why we would have a problem.  Perhaps what we need is a note on the main page that warns users about the content on user talk pages?  I mean... if the word idiot offends people... it's not like I think the user pages should turn into full blown R-rated content.  16:36, 4 June 2007 (EDT)

Oh, what the hell? I'm sorry, but this is the stupidest thing I've seen you people argue about. If a curse word is needed as part of a quote/script/site name/game name/whatever, so be it. This is an encyclopedia, not My First Dictionary First Grade Edition. Actually, that would be better. Most of those dictionaries list curses too. Only a few instances of blatant profanity being a problem can be sited. Don't make a problem out of nothing. -- Chris 23:48, 4 June 2007 (EDT)
 * I think we're talking about user fairness, especially in chat. Any Mario quotes with profanity, if it ever comes up, will be shown in full here, or nearly in full, here. If this is accepted, when I create the policy I'll mention that is applies to the community, not the encyclopedia aspect. 23:41, 5 June 2007 (EDT)

Ummmm...... EVERYONE curses, me, you, and ... well..... a greayt proportion of all humanity. Personal Attacks are already banned, I don't see the need of banning the occasional vulgar phrase. And what, may I ask, describes a "curse word"? Is there a specific requirment? I think this is dumb.... - Ultimatetoad

We want this site to appear professional. How about we just not use these (censored for the sake of kids but you know what they are): fu**, co**, sh**, bi***, as*, cu**, fa*, ect. There should already be rules against racist slurs and insults against groups of certain people, re***d, ni**a, ch**k, ect. If it's used in certain context like location or not as an insult, it can be acceptable, queer, hell, gay, ect. As for the childish ones like dork, idiot, loser, I would be surprised if any of you actually use those in insults. '''PLUS THIS IS A MARIO SITE. THERE'S NO SWEARING IN ANY OF THE GAMES, CHILDREN COME HERE'''. Just use symbols, it's not that hard. - Yoshi Mastar
 * The one instance in Donkey Kong and any other "in game instances" will be allowed as exceptions. Elsewise, avoid it as much as possible. This will be said in the policy I'll draw up if the proposal is passed.
 * FYI DB you have "Im just some idiot that does cra**."

It definately should be allowed in the encyclopedia if it ever comes up. If somone is can read they have most likely heard every swear word, and if they havn't they will not be scared for life. They are part of the english language and if there is a purpose for on of them to be used in the database they should not be censored. It not this websites job to babysit children. p.s. asshole and idiot do not mean the same thing in any context. several of you seem ot be confused about this. Threegee

I changed it...


 * No Prob...

Alright, there are only two times when I could see it, because there are two "swears" in the whole of the "Marioverse" thing. The first is obviously the DK64 rap, and the second is a NPC in Mario Tennis: Power Tour, who says, "We suck!" referring to a school that lost a championship. That's it. Finito. End of story. Why is this being such an issue? :) 01:23, 7 June 2007 (EDT)

What about the obvious Underwhgere=Hell thing? As Threegee said, it is not our job babysit kids on this site. It should be used when it is needed, and Suck is NOT a cuss word. - Ultimatetoad
 * Look: THe few times its necessary in an article, sure, fine, go ahead. But the Ban is affecting OUTSIDE of articles.

So why shouldnt we use it when talking among ourselves? If it is appropriate, like saying "Damn it!" when something bad happens, and not doing it excessivly..... - Ultimatetoad

But, even right there, when you said "not doing it excessivly" that's still a sort of ban... I don't know. Maybe we should just put a message on the front page that notes that talk pages are fair game. Oh, and btw, suck isn't a cuss, I know. It is rude, though, and you wouldn't find it on an encyclopedia page ;) 00:30, 12 June 2007 (EDT) }}

Welcoming Committee
ACCEPTED 7-1

I propose a Welcoming Committee  that will be run by yours truly. The welcoming comtiee will make sure Every User gets a welcome, welcoming will not be restricted to just Committee members everyone can help. The Committee will also help users with user stuff and mariowiki stuff, a Committee member will have had to be aroud for a while, be able to handle stress, and great knowledge of WikiSyntax. I see how this Committee will do no harm, besides all it will do is help.

Proposer: Deadline: 15:00, 24 June

{{scroll box|content=

Support

 * 1) Let's help them!
 * 2) Hk -- Erm... Yeah. Newbies are important. We all go through that stage.
 * 3) – wasn't sure at first, but the continual help afterwards convinced me.
 * 4) – Although a lot of the committee goals seem like simple user duties, newbies do indeed need help and a team dedicated to answering their questions seems like a pretty good idea.
 * 5) n00bs are the future of our wiki! with SOS gone we need more users contributing.
 * 1) – Although a lot of the committee goals seem like simple user duties, newbies do indeed need help and a team dedicated to answering their questions seems like a pretty good idea.
 * 2) n00bs are the future of our wiki! with SOS gone we need more users contributing.

Comments
Bean, you need a better reason than that, and I already said we could help newbies without a committee, Hk.
 * I end up helping everyone, it'd be nice to have some guys that can help too, and if we have an "unofficail Comitee" why not make it offical, this will end up helping the wiki and making it better.
 * Well, I don't think it should be run by anyone. A committee is usually run by everyone. And if everyone can participate, it isn't really a commitee.
 * But they don't, and now they'll ask the people in the Committee.
 * Why do you need to be in charge? Something like this won't benifit from having a ruler.
 * Everyone comes to me anyways >_>, and besides there has to be someone in charge.
 * Why does there need to be someone in charge?

So I can add comittee members, cause you don't want a new user showing up and asking someone for help but they don't know what to do. all I'm saying is I want people who know what their doing to be the comitttee. And the leader (Me) make sures that they know what their doing...You don't members who can barely help themselves on it.
 * But you said anyone can be on the commitee. 17:39, 17 June 2007 (EDT)
 * No I believe I said anyone can welcome ;)...
 * PLUMs, when I first got here, I was really confused. Help pages?  Didn't know where they are and I still have to request help because there are still so many topics not covered by those pages, but are instead on Wikipedia in "wikispeak".  I dunno.  Basically, if I had gotton one of those nice templates when I came, it would have helped somewhat.  But, yeah.  23:10, 17 June 2007 (EDT)
 * Oh. Well, I still don't see a reason why the commitee can't vote on new members and needs a leader.

Well if this get added, I'd certainly consult the other guys before adding new members...
 * Oop. I was assuming the idea would get fleshed out as it was implimented.  Maybe what we should do is have a trial period?  00:18, 19 June 2007 (EDT)

}}

5 Links
KEPT 6-4

I propose to remove the Only 5 links in sig rule. It doesn't seem to make any sense.

Proposer: Deadline: 17:00, 25 June

{{scroll box|content=

Support

 * 1) Strong Support Wayoshi, just because you only need 5 doesn't mean everyone else only needs 5. I, for example, need 6 really.
 * 2) --This is a silly rule.
 * 3) come on! i mean you should be able to have more than that!
 * 1) come on! i mean you should be able to have more than that!

Oppose

 * 1) – User, user talk, and any 3 out of the following: user comic, user story, contribs, email, external link. 5 is a perfect amount.
 * 2) Gofer
 * 3) – Five links is enough, if not too much; any more is just annoying.
 * 4) – It is quite hard to click on the links which are only a single character wide. Pretty pointless if you ask me.
 * 16:51, 22 June 2007 (EDT) – sorry guys, but the other users are right, it does get confusing. Sigh, this means I'll have to remove one of me links. 16:51, 22 June 2007 (EDT)
 * 16:51, 22 June 2007 (EDT) – sorry guys, but the other users are right, it does get confusing. Sigh, this means I'll have to remove one of me links. 16:51, 22 June 2007 (EDT)

Comments
Most people don't look at all five links so they're useless, and its annoying when i try to respond to someone and I have to llok through all the links.

It should be no more than 10, but 5 is too little.
 * And ten is too much.
 * Yeah, 9 seems about right.

7 is OK, right?
 * 1 for userpage
 * 1 for talk
 * 3 for subpages (these 3 are wayoshi's plan)
 * 2 links to other pages (these are what most people want/need)

That's fair, right?

Maybe 8 to play it safe. Actually, just leave the links alone if you don't want to click them. And just click their userpage one, and go to the talk tab, Gonzo.

2 "Other" pages usually = other userpages or articles, which are either banned or useless. 18:51, 18 June 2007 (EDT)

again. Just because you think they're useless doesn't mean they are.

Yeah. Max's plan seems good, but he left out contribs.
 * Take SLS for example i have to hover over all his links to reply to him, and even his userpage is annoying to find.

well, that's a different story. How about at least 6 links?

The userpage is almost always the first one. And SLS's one is the first one.
 * Why do you need more than five links anyway, 1 for userpage, 1 for talk, one for contribs(maybe) and then three(or two) for subpages.

For Fantendo.

What he said. and article links. and about... 2 users actually have 3 or more subpages.
 * why exactly do we need article links? and if only a few users have 3 Subpages then there really is no need to have more than 5.

because, it's convinient... and it's helpful... and just because You and washi don't need them doesn't mean we don't.
 * and cause you and pumber need them doesn't mean everyone else does.

Well, we'll see how many do at the end of the week.

I feel very strongly that is a silly rule. Just because one or two people find something useless doesn't mean it is.
 * alright after looknig over all the sigs Heres the stats: 51 Sigs = Less than 4 links, only 19 = have More or around that number.

I think 5 is a perfect number. Userpage, talkpage and subpage, nothing more, nothing less. I hardly see the point in linking wiki articles, I can see why people link them, but geez, why adding even more slot for something tottaly pointless? And that signature check was a godsend for me, when you fear that Plumber send you a message because his sig will lag your computer, you know there's something wrong. Gofer
 * lol, I'm sorry... I use a pretty good computer. But, I will admit that Banana-Plumber is a little annoying to see 10 times on a talk page... but it is cute.  If this is a lag problem I would say that you should be the deciding factor. 00:23, 19 June 2007 (EDT)

}}

Writer Guidelines
ACCEPTED 7-0


 * Added by Wayoshi, from Talk:Main Page

Recently, a discussion has arrisen in regards to the future of the Big Eight page. Several users, including myself, see an issue with the amount of fanon in the category. Please view the talk page for individual ideas. Main concerns include the lack of any such category in the Marioverse and the level of favoritism involved in choosing characters. Another idea is that the Big Eight page would do better under the title MarioWiki:Big Eight as it is more of a guide for writers on the Wiki than an actual Mario element. Please post ideas for change or support for the page as is! Thank you! 13:52, 20 June 2007 (EDT)

If we make this a guideline, we'll have to make the other pages guidelines (i.e. Marioverse).

Proposers: and Deadline: 20:00, 29 June {{scroll box|content=

Make them Writer Guidelines
{{scroll box|content=
 * 1) {{User:Max2/sig}}
 * 2) {{User:Cobold/sig}} - AAAHHH!!! - Seriously, they're better as guidelines.
 * 3) {{User:YellowYoshi398/sig}} – Although I'm not 100% sure about Marioverse, most of these seem like they'd be better off/less fanon-ish as writer guidelines.
 * 4) {{User:Stumpers/sig}}While the Marioverse is a little sketchy, the Big Eight and Filler Characters appear to be simply determined by us. This means that it would do better as a MarioWiki category article in my opinion.
 * 5) {{User:Plumber/sig|The Marioverse could be debated, but the Big Eight is definately a guideline.}}
 * 6) User:FixitupSigh, this isn't what this article particularly needed yet. Oh well, patience.
 * 7) -- Sir Grodus (note: Sir Grodus commented below.  Please do not delete this comment! --Stumpers)

Comments
What exactly would it mean to make them writer guidelines? Want to know quick. User:Fixitup
 * We mean make them helper articles. Remember the importance policy?  Didn't have much impact on which articles you could write for, right?  This would be the same way.  19:02, 22 June 2007 (EDT)

I fail to see how making an article like this a guideline will fix anything. What we need to do is decide who should really be a part of the big eight or decide to take down the article! I see no improvement right now and find it unfair. Am I understanding this correctly? User:Fixitup
 * Making it a guideline removes the implication that it is an official concept. However, it is not.  By making it a guideline, we are left with a list of major articles on dynamic subjects that are frequently accessed to constantly update when needed.  19:42, 22 June 2007 (EDT)

Ok that makes that better, but I still don't see how this solves who should be a part of the big eight and who shouldn't. This just doesn't provide me the options I was hoping for. User:Fixitup

Sorry to step in, but if you oppose, you should vote, not just comment. 22:22, 22 June 2007 (EDT)

Yeah, the problem is I'm not sure how to resolve the selection thing. :( Oh, well. Baby steps I guess.  01:13, 23 June 2007 (EDT)

Um..well if you were reading carefully I ended up supporting making it a guideline I'm just upset that the only thing being done is that so whatever, time to vote. User:Fixitup

They're basicly fan conceptions, same with Filler Characters. -- Sir Grodus }}

Maintenance Committee
ACCEPTED 5-0

I propose a Maintenance Committee that will be run by democracy. The committee will ensure that Orphaned pages will be linked, unused files will be tagged for deletion or used, unlabeled PIs will be deleted, and other maintenance work will be done. Anyone who is up for it can join the committee.

Proposer: Deadline: 15:00, 30 June {{scroll box|content=

Support

 * 15:37, 23 June 2007 (EDT) – it hurts.... me?
 * 1) I ended up doing some the other. I love the name PLUMs made for it too.
 * 2) I think this is a great idea it gives people a chance, should have joined earlier GO DEMOCRACY!!!!
 * 1) I ended up doing some the other. I love the name PLUMs made for it too.
 * 2) I think this is a great idea it gives people a chance, should have joined earlier GO DEMOCRACY!!!!

Comments
I'm putting all new committees on the Wiki Maintenance page (to expand it). I might rename this the Technical Committee. 17:15, 24 June 2007 (EDT) }}

FAs Beback
ACCEPTED 4-0

I propose that the FAs, old rating system, old FAs, old FA noms, all of that, be undeleted and restored. The PAIR extension may take a year or more to update, and this way is simpler. Proposer: and Deadline: 20:00 July 3 {{scroll box|content=

Start Using Them Already

 * 1) I'm a little impatient so let's go! 22:14, 27 June 2007 (EDT)
 * 2) I want to see them soon, so let's start them up now
 * 3) This will bring back the old FAs and noms, also, just to let you guys know. - see below.
 * 04:31, 1 July 2007 (EDT)

Comments
I already started a poll here, so I pushed back the deadline and transferred votes. Hope you don't mind. 02:25, 1 July 2007 (EDT)
 * Well, it's a big of a problem with the voting system that everyone votes for his favourite articles, not for the best ones. But one year? That's just too much. - 04:31, 1 July 2007 (EDT)

}}

Userbox System
DECLINED 4-1

I propose we split the userboxes up into subpages and have a new page. Before adding a new userbox the user puts the userbox on the "Userbox Voting" page, then e vote if it should be kept or not added in. This will cut off not so great userboxes and crashing my CP when trying to add new ones XP. Also another reason for this is people are flying sloppy userboxes in to prevent the picture from being their PIs, thus filling the page will odd userboxes. Proposer: Deadline: 17:00 July 20th. {{scroll box|content=

Support

 * 1) Of course 8D

Oppose

 * 1) -per PLUMs
 * 2) – what is this? Having to approve and/or restrict userboxes – which is supposed to express the user and help get their userpage going with info about themselves relating to Mario – feels like we're unwelcoming users right from the start.
 * 01:52, 17 July 2007 (EDT) Very true. It's complex enough as it is.  If there's an issue with people expanding their personal image count through userboxes, it should be brought up with a proposal for images used in userboxes to only be very small, so that they would only be useful in said boxes.  Whoa... can you say run-on?
 * 01:52, 17 July 2007 (EDT) Very true. It's complex enough as it is.  If there's an issue with people expanding their personal image count through userboxes, it should be brought up with a proposal for images used in userboxes to only be very small, so that they would only be useful in said boxes.  Whoa... can you say run-on?

Comments
Well I'll keep it clean and voting wouldn't be odd...
 * Could you explain the new system a little more? It's still kind of confusing...  22:54, 16 July 2007 (EDT)
 * It'd work like proposals pretty much, also userboxes can't be about anything. Also i got the idea from wookiepedia

}}

Monobook Reskin
REJECTED 7-3 This may sound VERY insane to all of you, but I would like the wiki reskinned to black? This is not because it looks slicker (though I think it does :P ), it is because it saves power. Just use www.blackle.com as an example (Currently 112,468.241 Watt hours saved). If this is accepted, anyone who likes the white can just ask me to make the wiki look how it used to again.

Proposer: and  23:49, 24 July 2007 (EDT) Due Date: Tuesday, July 31, 17:00 EDT {{scroll box|content=

Support

 * 23:49, 24 July 2007 (EDT)
 * 00:04, 25 July 2007 (EDT) I was with PLUMs while he decided to make this a proposal, and I would like to reiterate the environmentally friendliness of MY OWN skin. Check it out, it looks slick, too.
 * 00:15, 25 July 2007 (EDT) Saves energy.

Oppose

 * 1) – Our default skin is a fair one that works for our plentiful guests. If you are concerned with energy, do you part by making your skin dark. We're not changing the appearance of what's now a high-frequency site for activists. Secondly, this shouldn't be a proposal, this is Steve's decision.
 * 2) -What Wayoshi said.
 * 3) - In my opinion, a black page looks unusual especially in the MediaWiki software, and might more scare away new visitors than attracting them. You can still, like the others said, use your own monobook skin.
 * 4) It could scare away young and new users, it looks freaky, and you have to ask Steve anyway.
 * 5) – Black and other dark colors don't seem to fit the theme of a Mario wiki well. Like everyone else said, you can change your own monobooks if you want.
 * 6) - It would hurt eyes, and it would also be (As Max2 said,) scary for the children.
 * 7)  its too dark, have you seen boo mansion? it make mario look evil.

Comments
You can change the text color you know.

We'd have light blue text, it looks nice.

Should we perhaps take it up with Porplemontage? He did create the default monobook and you can't do anything without his permission regardless of whether this proposal is won. Ask him first. 00:17, 25 July 2007 (EDT)
 * And slick or nice in whos opinion, most users aren't fans of dark colors. If you wanna save energy you should probably change your monobooks.
 * And most users aren't fans of dark colors isn't an opinion? I just wanna save more energy than I already am. 11:19, 25 July 2007 (EDT)
 * Tch. I'll just make a note on the main page for all environmentally concerned users. And stop telling us to change our own, mine is ALREADY more friendly to the environment than you can imagine. The Blued doesn't look creepy, it looks very nice, I use it everyday. Xzelion shouldn't have a say in this, considering the MWUserpedia incident...

Don't do it. Hk, it's dark and creepy. I'm not trying to insult, but make your own Emo monobook, don't change bright colors most of us enjoy. Either way, Steve will say no.

Take back that Emo comment if you know what's good for you.

All I'm saying is, go be dark and creepy somewhere else. There are a lot of people here who hate black. More than you 3 who like it.

Max2, this has NOTHING to do with black or how it's cool. It's about the fact that it consume less power. Gofer

It'll consume less power because NO BODY WILL JOIN WHEN THEY THINK WERE ALL GOTHS OR SOMETHING. And then we'd have to change the logo, which teve would like never say yes to, I've heard.

The power play is that black costs less energy to power up.

and then there would be a huge decrease in new guests. Face it, Mario is for kids. Kids like bright. Not dark.

If it costs less energy to run, that means it also costs less MONEY....

but at the cost of less users. Don't we want more users?

Isn't Steve on a frugal streak as of now? I mean, look at the ads!

Why is black instantly associated with evil, creepy, Goth, and Emo? That's actually a bad stereotype, you guys. Jeez. Because something is dark, that doesn't mean its diseased or something.

It doesn't cost me anything more or less. The "causing less energy to run" argument takes place on the user's side because their monitor will use less energy to display the site. -- 15:55, 25 July 2007 (EDT)

That's how i thought it would work. Too bad for me!

why can't you think of like blue or something?

}}

Scroll Boxes
REMOVED 4-1

The template is used in Big Eight articles for galleries, quotes, and navigation templates to make the articles look shorter. If the proposal of removing them is accepted, the template should still be kept, as it is used outside of the Big Eight articles as well.

Proposer: 15:11, 27 July 2007 (EDT)

Due Date: Friday, August 3, 20:00 EDT {{scroll box|content=

Support Removal

 * 1) - In my opinion, they are really hindering the article flow and style, creating errors when trying to edit sections coming after the scroll box, and might simply annoy readers, including me.
 * 2) I agree
 * Ya,
 * 1) I completely agree with Cobold.

Oppose

 * 1) It cuts down the size of the article.

Comments
also said he doesn't like them. - 15:11, 27 July 2007 (EDT) }}

Banner Change
ACCEPTED 3-0

Proposer: Fixitup 15:32, 30 July 2007 EDT Due Date: Monday, August 6, 17:00 EDT {{scroll box|content=

Support

 * 1) – anything with the same artwork. Itadaki ended up looking nice!
 * 14:22, 4 August 2007 (EDT) As per Wayoshi, though External Links needs Bowser somewhere behind Wario and Waluigi.
 * 14:22, 4 August 2007 (EDT) As per Wayoshi, though External Links needs Bowser somewhere behind Wario and Waluigi.

Comments
I think we should he atleasts Mario, Luigi, Bowser,Peach,Yoshi,and Wario in the banners.
 * Um, just to get this straight we're voting for new banners? So Support is to support new banners and opppose is to just stay with the most recent ones?

Basically. Fixitup

The above is something I whipped up. There is a version of the WIKI STUFF banner without Toad and another without Yoshi, I added them because there ended up being room. So everyone please tell me what you think and how I could improve or if they are fine as is. Fixitup
 * I would suggest making WIKI STUFF less bright on the right-hand side. 22:54, 30 July 2007 (EDT)
 * Shouldn't we just take this straight to Steve? Like I did last time.
 * The first is better IMO

I left this message on Plumber's discussion page and thought I should address it to anyone else who wanted Bowser as well. I know you probably like Bowser but putting him in with Wario and Waluigi without making it look god awful isn't possible. He just doesn't blend well there and to make him proportioned is just out of the question. Trust me, you don't even wanna see how far I got before noticing it wasn't gonna happen. Unless you can actually get me a perfectly transparent bg for all of the Itadaki Street DS art then I can't do it. Fixitup }}

Featured Images
OPPOSED 4-3

There is already the, we should use it. The system will be exactly like the original FA system.

Proposer: 14:19, 12 August 2007 (EDT) Due Date: 17:00, August 19

{{scroll box|content=

Support

 * 14:19, 12 August 2007 (EDT) It's about time we got a new project and put that template to use.
 * 1) Seems Like an excellent Idea too me, unlike those anger management classes I got twice Walkazo (and Pantaro Paratroopa) This message was PP's.
 * 2) Compitition is fine.  I mean... we got rid of the FA already, and everyone's just sitting around sorta and being confused at the new system.  Ugh... it's so... EXTENSIVE!!! Agh!

Oppose

 * 1) "Could create Competition" ~Wayoshi Like, everywhere ---
 * 2)  – no need to assess images. The template is used to give a current FA an illustration on the Main Page, that's all. Max2: I'm not so worried about competition for people finding better images, I just think we're not big enough to sustain a steady supply of spectacular images. Many that are uploaded are quite small.
 * 3) Per Wayoshi
 * 4) Besides, images are harder to assess than articles because of their nature. There's no style or depth to be talked about.

Comments
Actually, there's plenty of style to talk about. If you don't think you can think of something to say about a picture, then maybe we need to practice here. Example: Princess Peach in Brawl Here I go:

Princess Peach (SSBB) The official artwork for Princess Peach for the game Super Smash Bros. Melee showed a considerable diviation from her original appearance. Typically, Nintendo renders its Mario characters in the style of a simplistic cartoon. However, the Smash Bros. team has acted against this tradition for each of the princess's appearances, allowing her heavy detail on her hair, dress, and face. There you have it. Example #1. That wasn't too hard. :) 13:24, 17 August 2007 (EDT)

Super Stumpy saves the day. or something. }}

Trouble Center
TRY A COMEBACK 7-5

Face it, folks. The Trouble Center has been rarely used in 2007 after an initial burst, I don't think at all this summer. It's meant for newbies or the experienced to get article help where they cannot, such as knowledge of classic or obscure games. But, both of these kinds of members have fallen through: very few newbs become full members here and usually ask a veteran instead or don't have any questions for article content; veterans work at what they are strongest OR are more involved in sub-communities such as Fantendo or Userpedia instead.

Our community is just not big enough to sustain the ideal function that was set last year. Oh well, but we would survive.

Proposer: Deadline: 17:00, 23 August {{scroll box|content=

Drop It

 * 1) – community size too small to reach ideal goal, thus it has fallen through like a dead weight.
 * 2) It was a good idea, but right now I think it's function would be better served through main page postings, rather than a complex array of pages that only will confuse newbies.  Oh, that brings up another question: what's going on with the featured articles?  Could the new system just be too complex or am I just confused?
 * 3) The multiple sub-pages of the Trouble Center would confuse many newbies, especially considering 99% of them have trouble with the simplest syntax. They can always just ask more experienced members.
 * 4) Per Stumpers and Phoenix
 * 5) I've had calls up since April or March and they haven't been taken. I just don't think it's serving it's main function.

Try a Comeback

 * 1) - it has potential to become very useful again, maybe just a team needs to fire it up again. All it needs is maybe sometime on the sitenotice...
 * 2) - It will always be used people will always need help not everyone is good at this and not everyone can get certain pictures for arcticles.
 * 3) – It seems like a useful feature, even if it is used sparingly. We could try to revive it, and it would be worthwhile if these efforts were successful.
 * 4) Bastila Shan As far as i know, this gives the newer users a chance to help out vets which can really boost the moral and make them long-term editors, it seems cool In my opinion.
 * 5) its practically a help desk, it helps people with there problems.
 * 6) Its not even on the sidebar >.<
 * Yes, it deserves another chance.

Comments
um... veterans leavig is true. and that the Trouble Center is like never used... and the fact that some of our users spend way more time at other wikis... but we're sure as heck not low on community!

Nobody knows about it cause itsn ot on the sidebar. }}

New Feature: Chronology
ADD POLICY 8-0

This is a proposal to impliment a new writing policy that would give order to writing about Mario's fictional universe. Chronology provides a framework for writing about Mario's "history", as well as settle disputes about where to place items in a "History" or "Biography" section. The intent is not to say what we are writing is the official chronology, only Nintendo can say that. The purpose of the chronology policy is to provide a guide for writers when trying to place the order of games in a history section.

Proposer: Son of Suns Deadline: 20:00, 31 August

{{scroll box|content=

Add

 * 1) Son of Suns I am the proposer and my reasons are given above.
 * 2) Mr. SoS has a point.
 * 3) - Very well written guideline, can create more consistency between articles around the wiki.
 * 21:34, 24 August 2007 (EDT) it would clear up a lot of confusion about the Marioverse.
 * 1) – A helpful guideline and good way to keep chronology consistent.
 * 2) Per the reasons given above.
 * 3) i agree with knife.
 * 4) Walkazo Right now many articles have history/biography sections with dissimilar ordering of the games. This proposed timeline will certainly put an end to that confusion (as others have stated above) and is an inspired idea.

Comments
To Plumber, we would simply be putting them in order of release unless it was obvious that it must be somewhere else. Luigi's Mansion is not speculation, it is in order of release. References are made to the game in titles released afterwards, so it cannot be at the end. We are not speculating on its placement, we are putting it where Nintendo gave it to us. -- Son of Suns
 * Ah, OK. 13:46, 26 August 2007 (EDT)

}}

The Terrible Big Fandom
DELETED 9-0

Ok people, I'm just sick and tired of even seeing the words "Big Eight". The article is totally nothing but fanon cruft. I think we should just get rid of the article and any mentioning of it within other articles. When you look at it this way all the article is saying is "Uh ok these eight characters appeared playable in early spin-offs before other people and a lot of them are used a lot in their own games or a mainstream game so they are the most important eight characters and since a lot of people think so it is a fact.". Maybe I'm exaggerating, but I don't think so. Oh and, no adding or removing of any characters could fix this thing. WE MUST DESTROY IT WITH FIRE (no not literally)

Proposer: Fixitup Deadline: 17:00, 24 August {{scroll box|content=

Kill It

 * 1) I never thought much about it before, but now that you mention it, it sounds like a waste.-1337Yoshi
 * 2) - The Big Eight (and the Marioverse) have already been made writer guidelines. As such, the Big Eight references in articles should indeed be removed, and Marioverse should be replaces with Mario series.
 * 3) – Per Cobold.
 * 4) – Definitely. I was thinking the same thing, but Cobold worded it better.
 * 5) – Whoa, that much dirt on one part. And the references that contain "Big Eight", *makes a thumbs-down* DE-LATED!!!!!!!!
 * 6) I say we kick its big, eight butts out of the Wiki! Go, Fixitup!  (but you gotta admit, I helped weaken it earlier... :D)
 * 7) It is not official by Nintendo, only made up by fans. Get rid of it.
 * 8) its fanon info.
 * 9) agree with like everyone. Just because they were all in Mario Kart 64 doesn't make them any more special than the other people. Besides, it causes fights.

Comments
While some characters are obliviousy important than other, deciding who is a Big Eight and who is not is more of an opinion than anything. Per example, do Toad really qualify? Sure, he have his own game... but all he do nodaway is appearing in some spinoff. I don't see the point in it, anyway. Gofer
 * We would have to edit the writer guidelines as well, to say these are general terms used by fans, but are not actual canon and should not be mentioned in articles. 12:41, 17 August 2007 (EDT)
 * I agree, some people are obliviously more important than others, but yeah I couldn't agree more. I'm not sure how the writer guidelines work, but the point of this is to simply rid of any existence of the article.Fixitup

}}

Reformat Featured Articles...again!
ADD POLICY 9-0

Featured Articles are an important part of any wiki, and I think it is about time we get users excited about featured articles again. I am propsing we do away with the new PAIR system, and institute a new, simpler system I developed (but heavily based on the successful Wookiepedia FA guidelines). By making the nomination process open to more users, and making it simpler, we will encourage people to get involved in the FA process. This new system will be like the original, but stagnant nominations will be removed after a month of inactivity. That way, we can avoid having huge lists of nominations if no one is working on the articles. All new featured article nominations would have to be recast. If we do not have a featured article by the time the new main page is up, we should invite users to help the Super Mario Wiki find its first featured article. Here is what the featured article nomination page will look like:

The featured articles of the wiki are articles that represent the best the Super Mario Wiki has to offer. This is not a way to showcase the articles of your favorite characters, items, or the like.

An article must…


 * …be well-written and detailed.
 * …be unbiased, non-point of view.
 * …be sourced with all available sources and appearances.
 * …follow the Manual of Style, and all other policies on the Super Mario Wiki.
 * …not be tagged with any sort of improvement tags (i.e. rewrite, expand, etc).
 * …have a proper lead that gives a good summary of the topic and can be used for the front page featured box.
 * …have a reasonable amount of redlinks.
 * …have significant information from all sources and appearances, especially a biography for character articles.
 * …not have been previously featured on the Main Page. Otherwise, it can only be restored to featured status.
 * …include a reasonable number of images of good quality if said images are available.
 * …be notable and have significant content – some complete articles like Spiny Shroopa do not have enough information to become FAs

First, nominate an article you find is worthy of featured status, putting it at the bottom of the list below; see criteria above. Note that a previously featured article cannot be featured on the Main Page again; however, it can be restored to featured status if there are no other featured articles in queue. Others will object to the nomination if they disagree that the article is good enough; they will then supply reasons for doing so, and ways to improve the article (errors, style, organization, images, notability, sources). Supporters adjust the article until the objectors (with reasonable objections) are satisfied. The article is placed on the featured article list and added to the front page queue. Also, if, at least a week after the article's nomination, that article has five supports and no objections, it will be added to the queue, and will be officially known as a "featured article".

How to vote:

Before doing anything, be sure to read the article completely, keeping a sharp eye out for mistakes. Afterwards, compare the article to the criteria listed above, and then either support or object the article's nomination. If you object, please supply concrete reasons for doing so, and how it can be improved. Please cite which rule your objection falls under. Failure to do so will result in your objection being considered invalid. As stated above, any objections will be looked upon by the nominator, supporters, and anyone willing to improve the article, and action will be taken to please the objectors. Once all objectors' complaints have been solved (or the article has five supports and no objections after at least a week), the article will be added to the queue and be officially known as a "featured article".

Also remember to add nominated at the top of the article you are nominating.

Every Sunday the next article in the queue will be highlighted on the Main Page as featured, marked with the featured template and removed from the list of nominations. The beginning of the article then appears on the Main Page via the featured articles template. Nominees that are inactive for a month will be eliminated from the nominations list.

Proposer: Son of Suns Deadline: 17:00 4 September 2007 (EDT)

{{scroll box|content=

Use this New System

 * 1) Son of Suns - I am the proposer and my reasons are given above.
 * 2) - PAIR was a flop.
 * 3) – I guess it's the old system with more checks for validity. Fine with me, it always seems templates like  are hours of work eventually wasted for me :P.
 * 4) - This is a good system for featured articles. However, the PAIR system helped me to improve the article a lot, helping me to get it into a status in which I can nominate it. I'd like it to stay as a non-compulsory feature, if it's okay.
 * 5) Yes, a simpler system would be used more often.
 * 6) I agree with SoS's reasons.
 * 7) I like it.
 * 8) - See Comment below.
 * 9) Xterra  1(talk)  (work)  (?) (Maxthon) I guess.....

Comments
To Cobold: I can keep the templates in existence so people can review freelance. 13:11, 29 August 2007 (EDT)


 * PAIR reviews can still be used to help people improve articles, but they will have no effect on FAs. We can use any system that helps people get articles to the highest quality! =) -- Son of Suns

The system is good, but whatever we decide, we need to get a system and lock it in. As of right now, rules governing FAs have been all over the place. }}

Super Mario Sunshine "Secret" Areas
KEEP 2-5

Pages such as The Shell have been created as pages in their own right. I don't think that they are special enough to be credited in their own right simply because they are "Secret" areas. Besides, you actually need them to finish the game. I'm a little put off by the existence of PipeProject: Levels, however, because they are technically levels.

Proposer: Deadline: 15:00, 9 September

{{scroll box|content=

Delete them

 * 1) - As above.
 * 2)  Per Phoenix Rider

Keep them
Luigibros2 ]]as per above
 * 1) Son of Suns - For now, I am saying keep, because these levels appear to be officially named (The Shell article does not have the conjecture tag). As an officially named sub-area, these should be given their own articles. Also, sub-levels such as the Princess' Secret Slide and the Secret Aquarium from Super Mario 64 have their own articles.
 * 2) Why would we delete stage articles? They have every right to deserve articles.
 * 3) Walkazo - I don't see why they should be deleted, they're actual levels after all, and the whole point of Super Mario Wiki is to get as much Mario information available to people as possible, including stuff on all the tiny little levels, sub-areas and worlds of the Mario series. Since it takes slightly more effort to get to Secret Areas, it makes sence to give them articles seperate from the main areas they're found in. For now, anyway.
 * 4) [[User:Luigibros2|
 * 1) Per above.

Comments
Walkazo - The Shell is a place, and while the corresponding mission is calles "The Shell's Secret", it's not actually a "Secret Level", which is what I think all the confusion is about here. And while we're on the subject of Super Mario Sunshine places, I think there should be a category for Super Mario Sunshine Places. That way the sub-areas and the normal areas can be viewed along side each other. }}

Unused Image Deadline
ALLOW MORE TIME 9-0

Recently, a user uploaded an image at 23:07, 29 August 2007. Said image was marked for deletion as an unused image at 23:13, 29 August 2007, six minutes later. While I believe the tag was placed there in good faith, it was still a case of jumping the gun.

A while back, I made a note that an image should be used as soon as it is uploaded and was backed by Wayoshi. Now, however, I feel that I was a bit to hasty. I'm seeing more and more images that are being marked for deletion as unused images very shortly after said images where uploaded. I know from experience (as do a great many of you) that sometimes dropping images into articles doesn't always work out, for various reasons (a bit of wikicode is malformed, said images looks like crap in chosen placement, etc.). For these reasons, I'm thinking we should extend the limit a bit. Lets say one day for personal images and 12 hours for everything else. What say you all?

Proposer: Chris Deadline: 17:00, 6 September

{{scroll box|content=

Allow More Time

 * 1) – reasonable time limit, though I feel if a bit of investigation were done to the contribs of the uploader, less issues would come up, as we may discover errors in wikisyntax. Btw, I may be able to list all such images in DPL, not sure
 * 2) seems fair.
 * 3) - I argued on this already, it's needed especially when a used image gets removed from a page. We don't know who removed the image, and if everyone agreed to do so.
 * 4) - I Agree with every single word being spoken on this.
 * 5) -They need more time. Besides, they might find a way to put it in. This has happened to me before.
 * 6) - It should be left more time, he probally was starting to use it, then got sidetracked.
 * 7) http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/9276/papertoycf7.gif Paper Jorge! I give paper cuts so stand back! http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/9276/papertoycf7.gif Half-an-hour is fair. Six minutes is not.
 * 8) - It's rather unreasonable to delete an image right away if they see it hasn't been used for a couple hours, for example. I'd say give at least a day.
 * 9) what pj said.

Comments
}}
 * Well, seeing as this is now a proposal, I'd like to note that this, as a guideline, would govern people who mark images more than the uploaders. -- [[Image:Shyghost.PNG]]Chris[[Image:Shyghost.PNG]] 20:35, 30 August 2007 (EDT)

Cool User Lists
DELETE 12-6-4

Many users have a section on their userpage listing other community members they like. Often there is unnecessary conflict and even (pardon) stupid flaming when a user removes someone from this list. I say we get rid of all of these sections – there's no need to hurt anyone's feelings over any one of these. True friends – online or offline – can't be simply added or removed from your life on a list. We have a good group dynamic overall in our community, so let's not wreck it. Another option is to rename & rephrase all these lists so they are neutral, such as "User Neighbors I Know", though removing users could still bring questions and trouble.

Proposer: Deadline: 17:00, 19 September

{{scroll box|content=

Delete Them All

 * 1) – reasons in description above.
 * 2) saying some people are cool and leaving some out is a recipe for bad blood.
 * 3) Bastila Shan You guys are right,
 * 4) Agreed, I removed my Cool Users list already.
 * 5) If the wiki had a few hundred active members, then I could see sections like these working. The way it is, no.
 * 6) Walkazo - Per Xzelion and Ghost Jam.
 * 7) - After reading the above... Per all the other dudes... *Goes to delete his*
 * 8) User:Fixitup - Makes perfect sense to remove them.
 * 9) Even a neutral one will one day cause a problem somewhere.
 * 10) Wayo is right. You couldn't believe how long I wiated to be in one,seems right not to make people do that like me.
 * 11) - i will remove mine right now. I agree fully.
 * 12) The K I agree. These lists might hurt someone's feelings.

Rephrase for Neutrality

 * 1) - per my comments.
 * 2) Zach121- I think that they should change the name to wiki friends
 * 3) -I'll just descibe if I met/talked to them and how I helped them or how they helped me.
 * 4) Change name like alll guys above
 * 5) -What's wrong with having one. Look at mine! Mine is neutral.
 * 1) -What's wrong with having one. Look at mine! Mine is neutral.

Keep As Is

 * 1) The only people who flame about these things are the people who don't edit.
 * 2) --Luigibros2 21:00, 13 September 2007 (EDT) As long as it ain't flameing or swearing at another user it's fine.
 * 3) – Cool User lists were made simply to list friends and make others feel liked. It's silly to start flame wars over them, and that seems like something very few people here would do.
 * 07:35, 18 September 2007 (EDT) Per Yellow Yoshi

Comments
Could we do something like, users we've come across? or at least something like that.
 * That would be the option "Rephrase for Neutrality". - 16:26, 12 September 2007 (EDT)

oh.....

While I agree that we should nuke the cool user list, I have the impression it would create a flame war as bad as the one over the removal of featured article. Thus, I'm kind of neutral on it. Glowsquid

I havn't seen a flame war, yet, but its stupid to fight over something like this!


 * Fg flamed Glowsquid in chat.
 * To be honest it doesn't matter if we rename it or not, everyone knows what is it, no-mater what the name, at this point renaming it would be useless.
 * Agreed. For something like this to work and not be a problem, we would need a far larger number of active users than we currently do. -- [[Image:Shyghost.PNG]]Chris[[Image:Shyghost.PNG]] 17:46, 13 September 2007 (EDT)

can i do two? 0_o


 * What?

}}

Re-Add Banjo and Conker Articles
NOT PASSED 8-9

I've been thinking about this for a long time, and this proposal is to gauge how users would react to the re-inclusion of Banjo and Conker info into the wiki. Banjo and Conker first appeared in Diddy Kong Racing, and their series developed out of that game. As such, Donkey Kong, Banjo, and Conker are believed to exist in a greater DK Universe (and an extension of the Marioverse). As we have been redefining our view of remakes, that they are not replacements but supplements to the originals, I feel Banjo and Conker should have a place here. Just because Diddy Kong Racing DS is a remake that removed these two characters does not mean Banjo and Conker don't have their origins in the Donkey Kong series. Ultimately, there are many reasons for their inclusion in this wiki, and many reasons for their exclusion. All are valid. I don't want to start any flame wars, and I do not want make this a big deal. Please keep all discussions about this respectful. I just want to see if a majority of users would like Banjo and Conker content reintegrated at this time, or if they do not. Somehow I feel this info will eventually become a part of the wiki, as they are part of the greater world Nintendo and Rare created out of the Donkey Kong series, but this may not happen for a long time.

Here are the details of the proposal that would go into effect:


 * Banjo and Conker related articles can be recreated on the wiki. First we should go through deleted edits to restore as much as we can, then start editing and creating articles like normal.
 * Banjo and Conker series would be added as Tertiary Importance to the Importance Policy.
 * Additionally, this proposal would also move all crossovers (including Super Smash Bros.) to Secondary Importance.
 * This proposal would also prohibit articles about the Star Fox series and Grabbed by the Ghoulies. Tricky from Diddy Kong Racing exists in a separate continuity from Tricky EarthWalker from the Star Fox series, although the latter is a out-of-universe reference to the former.  In Grabbed by the Ghoulies, no major characters return in a major role (there are some minor cameos, just as major Jet Force Gemini characters appear as cameos in Banjo-Kazooie, and Jet Force Gemini is not a part of the Banjo-Kazooie continuity).  This differs from Diddy Kong Racing, where Banjo and Conker were major characters who spun off into their franchises.

Proposer: Son of Suns Deadline: 20:00, 21 September 2007

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Recreate Banjo and Conker Articles

 * 1) Son of Suns - I am the proposer and I have included some of my reasons above.
 * 2) Never thought they should have gone in the first place.
 * 3) User: Ultimatetoad (nope tiptup wasnt in pilot, but still....I agree with SOS)
 * 4) – Even if it is somewhat far-fetched, Banjo and Conker are part of the Marioverse and therefore deserve inclusions here.
 * 5) Per YY398. -- 14:59, 15 September 2007 (EDT)
 * 6) Per all of the above...
 * 7) -- Sir Grodus – Per SoS.
 * 8) Glowsquid While I don't belive Conker has enough tie to the Marioverse, I believe Banjo is related to the marioverse, see my comments below.

Leave Banjo and Conker Articles Out of the Wiki

 * 1) If we do that we would have arcticles on everything in the zelda series the metroid series and you get the idea....as they were all in Super Smash bros which is a crossover.
 * 2) per cobold
 * 3) Walkazo - As I see it, the Donkey Kong Series is a spin-off of Mario and therefore the Banjo and Conker series are spin-spin-offs. They're just to far removed from Mario to be included in Super Mario Wiki (in my opinion).
 * 4)  Per Cobold
 * 5) – most of both of these series is out of Marioverse.
 * 6) MarioWiki. Mario. Not Donkey Kong. Not Conker. Personally, I feel that extended universes should be limited to a single article per. -- [[Image:Shyghost.PNG]]Chris[[Image:Shyghost.PNG]] 02:25, 16 September 2007 (EDT)
 * 7) After hearing that thing about Tiptup, I believe Banjo could make it in. Conker, however, has no relations to the series other than Diddy Kong Racing, and he was even taken out in the remake, meaning he has no real relations to the DK series, thus, no relations to the Mario series.
 * 8) - Conker's Bad Fur Day isn't a game that can be featured on a children's wiki, it has too many adult themes.
 * 9) per walkazo!

Comments
I agree on everything you have said except two things you may want to take into consideration
 * 1) We should Import them from the Rare Wiki at Wikia since they may have been lengthened a little in there time there.
 * 2) We should bump crossovers down to a class lower than Tertiary, instead of Secondary, as Secondary is for series that originated from the Mario series, not crossovers from another series

02:05, 15 September 2007 (EDT)
 * OMG, I just remembered. The Conker games are very much sick, aren't they? M rated, correct? Wouldn't it be bad for the young children who come here if we make articles on the rude content in the Conker series?
 * A wiki is an encyclopedia. It is not meant to be censored, it is meant to tell information. Also, Vruet, we only make articles about those in the Smash Series., and none of those other series developed from the Mario series. 02:26, 15 September 2007 (EDT)
 * Yeah but this wiki is full of young people so we should keep it censored aslo those series are gonna make people asking if they can upload zelda arcticles and stuff as they are in a crossover-Mr.Vruet 02:37, 15 September 2007 (EDT)

As Plumber said, an encyclopedia is for information. Using the "A kid could see it!" logic, any depiction of genitalia in paper encyclopedia should be censored since a kid can read it.

Conker? I am kind of neutral on it. However, I'm all for the re-inclusion of banjo content sincee Titup, a minor character in both Banjo Kazzoie and Tooie (I think he was also in pilot, but not too sure.), reappered in DKRDS. Glowsquid

Walkazo: Well, actually, Mario could be considered a spin-off of Donkey Kong. Glowsquid


 * I know, since Mario's first game appearance was Donkey Kong. But as I see it, that game is more related to Mario games than it is to Donkey Kong games plot and gameplay-wise. It's just like Super Mario Land 3: Wario Land, it's the first real Wario game, yet it's in Mario's name. Then there's the fact that Nintendo immediatley started making Mario games, while it took years for Rare to come out with Donkey Kong Country, for all we know, they were simply recycling Nintendo's discarded Donkey Kong character, and the same might even be true for Banjo and Conker, since they came from Diddy Kong Racing, Rare was just a bit more speedy in developing them in their case. All in all, it's all quite muddled. - Walkazo

To Plumber, we can import from Rare Wiki, but only Banjo and Conker content of course. We created that wiki, so we have the right to re-import the information. For crossovers, I think it depends on what the crossover features. For example, Super Smash Bros. features Mario, so it's one degree away from the Mario series. However, Wario vs. Bomberman features Wario, who is one degree away, so this crossover would be another degree away. Maybe? Well, we can sort all that out again later, but for now crossovers will be Secondary if this proposal passes.

To others, this is an encyclopedia. We don't need to censor information for children. It's all available on Wikipedia anyways, which I am sure many of you frequent. And why should we censor information to children? Don't they have a right like any other person to choose what they want to learn about?

And people have already asked if they could include other Zelda information and we simply explain they can't. Problem solved.

I think Walkazo has the best reason for opposing: in her opinion, they are too far removed. Users have to decide how far they want to follow the spin-off series, as Banjo and Conker are spin-offs of spin-offs. I am willing to go that far. Well, that's my two cents. -- Son of Suns


 * Thanks for the mention, but just so you know, I'm a girl. - Walkazo


 * Explain your censoring point to parents. I don't think they all think that way. - 12:32, 15 September 2007 (EDT)


 * Quite a few adults work on this site - why should we be penalized because there are kid users too? Why should the Super Mario Wiki be any different than Wikipedia, which has a lot of kid users but articles about fellatio, sex, rape, murder, suicide, drugs, alcohol,  etc.?  If we are to be taken seriously as a source of information, we have to get out of this child-censoring mindset.  I just think kids need to be given more credit.  They are not stupid - they have free will like any adult.  They know what is appropriate for themselves.  Children need to be given more rights, instead of being sheltered their whole lives. -- Son of Suns

SoS, for once, I disagree. Wikipedia, one out of a hgundred users is a kid. Mariowiki, I think you are like one of 3 adults. Why should us kids be penalized because of that?


 * How are you penalized? You don't have to read the articles.  And I am sure there are a lot more kid users on Wikipedia then you state.  And you don't know how many adult users visit this site, especially when blogs from adults references this site as a source of information.  Books written by adults even reference this site.  I just wish some users would keep an open mind.  -- Son of Suns

Let me give my opinion... Leaving out of account whether a game like Conker's Bad Fur Day would be appropriate for children - why in the world would an article about that game be not appropriate for children in any way? The article describes the game. I guess the game is M rated because of containing violence? Well... so what? The article won't contain any violence! I don't understand why you seem to confuse promotion for a game with information about a game. Or do you think history lessons in school should be abolished in order to protect children from information about wars? Would be quite dumb, right? / Time Q 13:09, 15 September 2007 (EDT)
 * The article wouldn't contain violence, but it would possibly contain the sexual themes. Also, screenshots would have to be selected carefully. - 13:10, 15 September 2007 (EDT)
 * I agree on this; if there are screenshots which might be unsuitable for children, they should better be left out. But I don't understand why some users are against even creating such articles. / Time Q 13:18, 15 September 2007 (EDT)

You both make some very good points. We will not be writing articles promoting the game or any behaviours in the game, but merely describe them academically, and respectably (if this proposal passes that is; it's something I believe in, but will not force upon people). It's not like we won't be sensitive to children in regards to certain material, but it doesn't need to be censored. These articles will be purely informative, and avoid raunchiness (we will use academic terms, instead of lower language). That's what Mario Wiki is all about - writing objective, informative articles. =) -- Son of Suns

I wonder... Why we couldn't create a template that would warn the reader about offensive/innapropriate content and put it on the Conker Bad fur day-related page? Glowsquid


 * We could potentially, but we don't necessarrily have to. What is offensive to people is completely objective.  I'm sure some people would object to Daisy showing her stomach in Mario Strikers - so should she be included in this template?  Wikipedia does not have such templates, and I don't think we need it.  But whatever happens happens. -- Son of Suns

I think people are blowing this "sensory issue" way out of proportion. As Son of Suns said, we'd be using academic terms to describe the more mature subject matter, and since this is an encyclopedia and should contain all the information pertaining to Mario as we writers can find. It's not our fault if people find one thing or another offensive, as long as we write about it in good taste we're just writing the truth. Also, as SoS pointed out, there's no telling what people are going to get fussy over: I know people (myself included) who disapprove of Mario slaughteing thousands of Goombas on his way to save Peach - that's pretty violent. Then again, so's Bowser forcing his children to fight Mario, or Ash forcing his pet electric mouse to fight firebreathing dragons in Pokémon (and the Super Smash Bros. series)... The point is, there's a lot more than Conker's Bad Fur Day that will get (some) people mad on this site, and we can't help that. If worst comes to worst, we can put up a general warning on the main page. That way we can be sure no parents are gonna come busting our chops, and not have to worry about what subject matter would warrent the use of a "warning template" on an individual article. - Walkazo

Max2, if they made a Mario First Person Shooter rated M, would we cover info in that?
 * What the? Where did that come from? Think about it logically, Shigeru Miyamoto would NEVER do that.
 * He allowed Link to be in a Soul Calibur game, which I'm pretty sure has blood, etc. to some extent. -- Sir Grodus
 * Er, Twilight Princess also has that stuff, but to a lesser extent. It is M. I was talking about Mario games. Shigeru Miyamoto would never make a Mario game like that.


 * Soul Calibur has Ivy....and you thought Flurrie was voluptuous! Also, Mr. Miyamoto will die someday - who knows where Nintendo will take Mario (or Microsoft when they buy the rights to Mario) with him gone? And to be fair, Conker is a pretty good squirrel - he rarely swears, and only does so when parodying popular movies many of us have seen (like the Matrix and the Terminator). -- Son of Suns
 * I was fairly sure that Conker was a very bad squirrel. Either that or my Brother-in-Law lied to me. And, by Conker, I meant the series as a whole. And, we are not talking about Sould Caliber, that is NOT mario-related. We are talking about wether Banjo and Conker are Mario-related or not.


 * Even if we DON'T bring Conker back, we should still bring Banjo back, and Conker was not as bad as... Some stuff...
 * I still don't think the Banjo series should be able to make it into this. It is not related enough to the Mario series, and neither is Conker. And, what do you mean it isn't as bad as some stuff? What stuff?

Well, Conker's Bad Fur Day is rated M for a reason. But we would not be promoting the rated M material, we would be describing academically, as Wikipedia does. I do believe Banjo and Conker are related to Mario, as they went on adventures with Donkey Kong and Diddy Kong prior to the events of Diddy Kong Racing, as stated by the instruction manual. They were all buddies before the events of the game. -- Son of Suns
 * What do you mean you won't be promoting the rated M material? And, BTW, it is rated MA down here. However, I still don't think we should put any Conker and Banjo stuff in it.


 * A lot of other people have already wrote about this, so look above. Anyways, we would objectively write about the series as we do any other series, instead of saying the content is good, which is subjective and POV.  Also, DK lives in the same world as Banjo and Conker.  Squawks the Parrot even delivered letters directly to Banjo and Conker, proving they all live together in the same universe. -- Son of Suns
 * It just seems to 3rd Party-ish to be in this Wiki.


 * Technically, Rare was a 2nd party at the time of most of these games, so it was a part of Nintendo proper. But now it is either a 1st or 2nd party....to Microsoft.  I'm not trying to upset you or anything.  I think the whole maturity argument is not that valid.  But if you feel that it is too far removed from Mario (you can't deny it had its origins there), that's cool with me. =) -- Son of Suns

I must also note there is a moral to Conker's Bad Fur Day. It's not just empty jokes - it all leads to a very dramatic and emotional climax, where a real lesson is taught to the players. -- Son of Suns
 * I am just telling my thoughts on this situation. If we lose, we lose, I don't care, really. I just feel it is too distant from the Mario franchise. But, I, by myself, cannot choose wether it should be put here or not. So, whatever happens, happens.


 * Cool man. I feel exactly the same way. =) -- Son of Suns

Just for the record, if a Mario First Person Shooter was made, we would cover it. It being a Mario game and this being a Mario wiki. -- Chris 02:18, 16 September 2007 (EDT)

I don't think the maturity thing is a valid oppose, as nothing should get in our way of contributing to the wiki and making more articles. If some really have a problem with a content, we could put on the top of the page. Also, Vruet, none of those series originated from the Smash series, so we wouldn't make any further articles about them. 02:50, 16 September 2007 (EDT)

RXCUSE ME MR. DP!!! KIDS ARE OBNOXIOUS THESE DAYS!!! Forgive me, but what the H*** is THAT supposed to mean. We have hundreds of kids on hear already..... a couple weeks ago, I was one. And for the record, do you know how easy it is for a 11-12 yr. old to go onto sights based upon mature content? A MARIO WIKI will be the LAST thing Parents worry about. - Ultimatetoad
 * One, no swearing. Two, no flaming. Three, that is my point. If a Mario Wiki is the last thing they will worry about, how devastating would it be if they saw something like the Conker series on here?

1. Sorry, mornings are always a bad time for me. Two. I was'nt actually FLAMIJNG him i don;t think, but his comment did insult half the users here. 3. In my opinion, they WOULDNT CARE. There's worse stuff out there then a game with a bit of gore, and little sexual innuendo in it. - Ultimatetoad
 * One, its OK, but it is still not a good excuse to swear. Two, yes, you were technically flaming, and how do you know it insulted many people? Three, yes, there is worse stuff. BUT, their parents would probably think "You can go on MarioWiki, it is a safe website for you to browse", or something like that. How bad would it be if they noticed the Conker stuff, they would never allow their children back on the Wiki again.

And, i've seen my cousin playing it, thats all there really is. I've seen worse stuff on average on any one episode of family guy, which children without cable can watch every sunday..... As for the too far removed stuff just how too far CAN it be? The DKC series is often considered a seperate series from the Mario one, and it obviously provides a different flavor then most mario games, but it's here. What about the Donkey Konga series? It's a spin-off of a Spin-off, but we cover that. - Ultimatetoad

1. Yes I know, again sorry. 2. the users here arent insulted by being called obnoxious? O.K, maybe half the users here arent kids, but I know at least two below the per-teen level. 3. I've seen sexual innuendo, in my cartoon watching days. on Cartoon Network and Nickolodeon. WORSE STUFF then this wiki wil convey. The Conker games, I'll admit, may not be appropriate for a 7 or 8 year old to play, but the wiki articles will be appropriate for them to read. - Ultimatetoad
 * But, Donkey Kong has appeared in more than just one Mario-series game. And, what you just said actually further told us to leave out Conker and Banjo. You say that the Donkey Kong series should not be here because it is completely unique. If that is the case, Conker and Banjo couldn't even make it here, because their only Mario-related appearance was in a Donkey Kong game. The point is, Donkey Kong has appeared alongside Mario in more than one game, Conker and Banjo haven't.

I did not say we should take DKC out because it's too unique. I Meant we should leave it in. Again, it all comes down to how far wer're willing to go for a spin-off.... and heres another interesting thought: Was Rare planning the Banjo and Conker games BEFORE or AFTER Diddy Kong Racing? If before, they may have made the games even if DKR was cancelled.... which would have made all the difference, as therw would have been no connection to the marioverse. - Ultimatetoad

Another thought: if we allow Banjo and Conker in here, and one day Bottles gets his own series, will we let that series in? - Ultimatetoad
 * Who?

A Banjo caharacter... that would be a spin-spin-spin-off. But, as far as i'm concerned, all things in mario's universe should be covered, and TipTup proves that banjo is indeed in Mario's universe. Conker, has no such proof that I know of, so whatever, but of Banjo we have facts that show his homeland is located in the same world as Mario and Donkey Kong's is... otherwise, how could TipTup have gotten there.? - Ultimatetoad
 * I guess Banjo could make it in... barely. Conker, however, I'm not so sure about. In my opinion, they are both TOO 3rd Party-ish.

Maybe we should make a third category... and, for the record, Tiptup's appearence in BK and BT was'nt just a cameo, he was a tangible character that gave you rewards. - Ultimatetoad
 * Well, after hearing that, I guess Banjo could be allowed. However, er, isn't their a Banjo game coming out for the XBox 360? If so, what should we do about that? You still don't have my vote on putting Conker here.

Ummm... put the info on here? this is'nt a nintendo only wiki, we have info on games like Hotel MArio, even though there not Nintendo developed. Heck, we could even make an article on Microsoft and the XB360, if this passes through. - Ultimatetoad

Conker's a bit harder to place, i'll admit... - Ultimatetoad

And, heres a fun fact: There HAS been a MArio FPS. - Ultimatetoad

I would agree to add Banjo but leave Conker out, not because of "It's too mature!. stuff (Which for me, is total b****ck.) but rather because there is no tie to the Marioverse past his appearance in Diddy Kong Racing. - Glowsquid, I reallty thinkthis need a 3rd option.

There... two new options. - Ultimatetoad
 * Good. Man, I never thought this would become the Proposals biggest argument yet. :P

Cobold Max2 & Xzelion: Since an option to add Banjo content but leave Conker out have been added, and your reasons for opposing are against Conker, could you please change your votes, or the reasons behind them? Glowsquid

SOS, have you read ANY of these reasons? why did you take the two new things out. - Ultimatetoad


 * You can't change the proposal like that. Banjo and Conker are friends. Their series emerged from Diddy Kong Racing, neither had a franchise before. Tiptup is not a Banjo character per-se, he can be considered a cameo character. I moved all votes to oppose, so you may have to change your comments or votes. Just pick yes to both or no to both. If you accepte one you have to accept the other, as Tiptup is a cameo character. Also, Banjo and Kazooie appear in the Conker series, so those two series are connected that way. -- Son of Suns

BJ is a stuffed head and Kazooie's an umbrella, THATS a cameo. But You can TALK to Tiptup, and he gives you items. Thats not a cameo. And also, is'nt this supposed to be a democracy? three users agree with this idea, but you don't so you can remove it? Did'nt you leave a few months back because another user was doing the same thing?!. - Ultimatetoad

From an edit summaries: "It's either both or neither, as Banjo, Conker, Donkey Kong, and Diddy Kong are friends" + :You can't change the proposal like that. Banjo and Conker are friends. Their series emerged from Diddy Kong Racing, neither had a franchise before. Tiptup is not a Banjo character per-se, he can be considered a cameo character. I moved all votes to oppose, so you may have to change your comments or votes. Just pick yes Banjo and Kazooie appear in the Conker series, so those two series are connected that way. -- Son of Suns to both or no to both. If you accepte one you have to accept the other, as Tiptup is a cameo character. Also,

The fact than they are "friends" is irrevalant (plus, it sound retarded.), Conker is completly absent Diddy Kong Racing DS, a remake of the original, some (including me) think that remake are of an higher level of canon than the original game, however, even if Banjo himself is not present, he still somehow have tie to the Marioverse since Titup, a minor Banjo character made an appearance in DKRDS, if they are not in the same world, how he managed to get there? However, the same can't be said for Conker, who has nothing to conect him to the Marioverse appart for his (rectconed) appearance in Diddy Kong Racing.

Sincerely - Glowsquid

You have to wait for this proposal to expire before creating a completely different one. This is the proposal. Users can't just go around changing every proposal, adding millions of options. I gave these two options, pick one or neither. Also, Slippas appear in Conker's Pocket Tales. -- Son of Suns
 * Really, is he specifficaly named "Slippa"? That change everything, then. Actually, no, it don't. Because in both universe exist a simmilar creature/character don't mean the two are connected, it's the same thing as Tricky, really.

Glowsquid

Are they REFFERED to as Slippas? If so, then maybe... although a species is different then a character in some ways. - Ultimatetoad


 * Now that I have to do some research on. It's pretty clear that enemies such as Slippas and Armys are in the game.  But sometimes things aren't named, so let my research it.  But again, this is the proposal, so please adjust your votes.  And I think the fact that Donkey Kong, not simply Diddy Kong, but Donkey Kong himself went on adventures with Conker is very notable, just as is him advanturing with Banjo.  If that connection wasn't there, I wouldn't support this proposal.  -- Son of Suns

When did Donkey Kong go "adventuring with Conker"? and Actually, Glowsquid has a point. A certain type of fish may exist in both North America and Australia, but that deosnt mean it had to start out on either. A man named joe coolex, though can only be in one place at one thime: There can only be one of him. The same is true with the Slippas and tippy. - Ultimatetoad

I just did some research - Armies could not be in CPT because it was released BEFORE DK64 ever came out. - Ultimatetoad
 * Uh, Army appeared in DKC, a big army was a boss in DK64 thought.

Glowsquid

Still, the fact than some creatures in Conker Tales are simmilar to other DK creatures is for me, irevalant. Creature that looked, acted and (Not sure) named exactly after the Chain-Chomps appeared in a few Zelda games as enemies. Should we star doing Zelda article because of that? Glowsquid

Armies are in Donkey Kong Country. Banjo: Even before the start of his future partnership with Kazooie, Banjo isn't one to turn down the chance of an adventure. So when Squawks brings the message from his pal Diddy Kong, the Honey Bear stuffs a few things into his trusty backpack and takes to his heels.

Conker: Another friend made by Diddy Kong on one of his endless adventures with Donkey Kong, Conker is also an exploration nut who'll jump at any chance to break free of a squirrel's less than exciting daily routine. He's eager to join with Banjo as the bear passes through. +

This proves a connection between Diddy Kong, Donkey Kong, Conker, and Banjo. Plus Squawks the Parrot delivers letters to Conker and Banjo, as stated in the story. The parrot does not deliver a letter to Timber or Tiptup or any other character, as the rest besides Krunch live on Timber's Island. Diddy Kong wants extra help, so he sends Squawks to the homes of Banjo and Conker, who do not live on Timber's Island. The Banjo and Conker series emerged from the Donkey Kong series. If DKR was a flop, the Banjo and Conker series may have not been created. It's not all about characters, it's about where franchises come from. The WarioWare series comes from the Wario and Mario series, but no WarioWare characters have ever appeared in a Mario game. Does that mean we don't include those characters? No Conker characters have appeared in a Donkey Kong game. It's the same thing.

And the same species cannot emerge in two different places. Law of natural selection prevents that. -- Son of Suns

How does that little selection prove anything? Donkey is'nt even MENTIONED in Banjo's profile. and snakes are a very common basis for enemies, CPT and DKC have very different graphical styles, I see no way for you to conclude that these snames in Conker's Pocket Tales are Slippas. - Ultimatetoad


 * I thought Banjo was already taken care of because of Tiptup. ;) -- Son of Suns

Should the WarioWare series be removed from the wiki as Wario is the only major connection? -- Son of Suns

For what we know, Banjo and COnker games may have been in making before Diddy Kong Racing, wheter Diddy Kong Racing may have allowed these two guys to have a game is pure speculation. Unlike Conker, The Wario Ware character didn't get removed in a remake of thhe original game. Glowsquid


 * There hasn't been a remake of a WarioWare game. Plus, according to official wiki policy, originals are as valid as remakes in terms of canon, so these are moot points. -- Son of Suns
 * Actually, it did. Mega Party game on the Gamecube. Anyway, I'm out of here, we are all for the re-inclusion of Banjo content (And I'm sure we don't mind Conker,either.), and yet we are fighting about who should be in and who is not, that's ridiculous.

Glowsquid

I'm not really arguing with you, SOS, but while the link between Banjo and DK is a Character, Conker's link is practically nothing. - Ultimatetoad

Think in terms of franchises. Say Mona got a game that took place in a new world, with all new characters, with no references to Wario or anything else from the WarioWare series, we would cover that series, right?

Also, I think I am upset that my proposal was changed. I have no hard feelings against anyone, but you can't just subvert the whole proposal. If you just want Banjo, you'll have to oppose this proposal then start a new one later. -- Son of Suns


 * Mona is a big part of the WW series so it only seems right that we'd include her spin-spin-off game, and Banjo and Conker were a big part of Diddy Kong Racing, so her series' inclusion would mean their spin-spin-offs would have to be included too. An interesting dilemma, however I think it sould depend on how similar the Mona series was to WarioWare, if it were as disimilar as Banjo and Conker are to Donkey Kong games I'd say we should leave her out. But that's all theoretical and all we're dealing with is Banjo and Conker, and I stand by my opinion that they are too far removed from Mario and shouldn't be included any more than they are now. - Walkazo

Right. I'm NOT disagreeing, again (you'll notice my vote is still in the C&B section). The reason those other options were created were to suit some users who felt that way. (Many other proposals, I will point out, have more than one option) I still agree with putting Banjo & Conker in the wiki. - Ultimatetoad

I know. Again, this is the proposal I wanted. If you want something different, wait until this proposal expires. Okay. New start. -- Son of Suns

Mario was briefly mentioned in Banjo & Kazzoie, just wanted to point that out. Glowsquid


 * That's true. What I love about this proposal is that we are finding all these connections.  Like I said above, I wanted to learn how people feel about Banjo and Conker content on this wiki.  It's very interesting to hear everyone's viewpoints and counterpoints.  That was my main stimulus for creating this proposal.  -- Son of Suns

A poster of Berri can be found in Banjo-Tooie. -- Sir Grodus

I'd just like to address some earlier statements: WarioWare isn't really a spin-off of the Wario series, since it still stars Wario. I think of it as a sorta sub-series, like Donkey Konga is for Donkey Kong. Wario and Donkey Kong are clearly main characters in the Marioverse, so there should be no question about whether or not these sub-series should be included. - Walkazo

I find kind of funny how everyone is complaining about the possibly offensive content on the Conker-related page, and yet, the Bob Hoskins page is not censored. Glowsquid

Hey, kids? All this talk about who was in what is irrelevent. OMG, Chain Chomp-like characters in a Zelda game? That's called a cameo, put it in the trivia section for Chain Chomp.

This is getting out of hand. The proposal is for Conker and Donkey Kong, focus on the simple part of that for now. If it comes to pass that all is readded, we can debate about the inclusion of mature content and Tiptup then. -- Chris 18:40, 16 September 2007 (EDT)

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New Subject Articles
REGULATE 6-0

This proposal would put a bit stricter standards on what articles can be created on new subjects (i.e. those with the Newsubject template). While most are fine, such as the Super Smash Bros. Brawl articles, some are not. I am mostly referring to the mass of fan conjecturally named Super Mario Galaxy articles. Many creatures and planets are given conjectural names, despite the fact they may disappear entirely, or may never be officially named (the planets may just be a part of greater officially named galaxies, and should just be described in the galaxy article in the first place). This proposal would not delete all these articles. They will stay until they can be organized when Super Mario Galaxy and other games are released. However, if this proposal passes, all new subject articles will be regulated from that point on. The criteria would be that the subject must be officially named by some means. Although these names are still considered conjecture until the game is released, they are still officially conjectured names, and will have a name (even if it's changed) when the game is released. All other conjectural information that is not officially named should go in the unreleased game's article (or in the articles of species, characters, places, etc.). The information is fine, but it's not article worthy.

Proposer: Son of Suns Deadline: 17:00, 24 September 2007

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Regulate the Creation of New Subject Articles

 * 1) Son of Suns - I am the proposer and my reasons are given above.
 * 10:04, 17 September 2007 (EDT) Here here, I've been wanting a crackdown on those Super Mario Galaxy articles for a long time.
 * 1) Per above. I also don't like this "cosmic species" concept, when it has never been said that the guys are indeed from a different species.
 * 2) Glowsquid Completly agree. I find ridiculous that we have an article on Cosmic Tox Box, which act exactly like a regular Tox Box, simply because it's appear in Super Mario Galaxy.
 * 3) I agree with everything. Those articles are very small, not officially named, and then named by fans, it is ridiculous.
 * 4) – Per SoS.

Comments
Again, I will note this proposal will not delete all these articles in one fell swoop. You can argue on individual talk pages if you think a certain article should be merged, and take action if there is a consensus. Or you can just wait for the game to come out before making changes. But if this proposal passes, we won't allow something like this Super Mario Galaxy article fiasco happen again. -- Son of Suns

Add Banjo-Kazooie Artciles
DO NOT ADD BANJO CONTENT 2-7

The RecentAdd Banjo - Conker Articles proposer was denied, mainly because of Conker. People thought that he was either too mature, or too hfar removed. Banjo however, has no such problems. His games have all been rated E so far, and the inclusion of Tiptup in Diddy Kong Racing, Diddy Kong Racing DS, Banjo-Kazooie, and Banjo-Tooie, Seems to me worthy to merit Babjo for inclusion on this wiki. As previously stated, Tiptup's appearence in BK - BT was not a cameo- he was alive, and tangible. Nor was it a simple cross-over: Banjo's first appearence was DKR, making the series a SPINOFF of Mario. Other series that included Mario characters/enemies (LoZ,F-Zero, Tetris....) were made with there title characters first appearing in one of there own games.

Sooo... vote, and all.

Proposer: UltimateToad Deadline: 4:00 P.M. Saturday Spetember 29th

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Add Banjo Articles

 * 1) Ultimatetoad
 * 08:37, 26 September 2007 (EDT): Yes! Even my brother has been thinking if Banjo-Kazooie articles should be made for a long time now. I even have more proof: In Donkey Kong's room in DK64, there is a locker with a picture of Banj and Kazooie's heads on the side. Not, only that, but one of the mole children from Banjo-Tooies was holding a DK doll! There are connections!

Keep Them Out

 * 1) Son of Suns - Conker is as connected as Banjo is. Both franchises developed out of the DK series, and both live in the same universe as Donkey and Diddy Kong.  I don't think it is fair to have one without the other.
 * 2) If Conker's out, Bajo's getting the door slammed in his face as well. 08:07, 23 September 2007 (EDT)
 * 3) - They are still too far from the Mario series, Tiptup doesn't change that, his only "Mario" appearance was Diddy Kong Racing (DS), too.
 * 4) Walkazo - Per Cobold.
 * 5) – Per SoS.
 * 6) Per Cobold.
 * 7) Too minor.

Comments
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Walkthrougth-style level article.
ALLOW WALKTHROUGH ARTICLES 7-8

Most article about level's are fine, however a few (BLIZZARD!!! is a big offender.) read like something out of a player guide. Level articles should state:
 * 1) Where it take place.
 * 2) The enemies that are in it.
 * 3) The special gimmick (If there's one.)

This is an encyclopedia, an article shouldn't tell where to find that last Flower or how to defeat Koin. If I want that kind of information, I'll go on Gamefaq.

Proposer: Glowsquid Deadline: September 30, 15:00 EDT

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Prevent the creation of that kind of article and rewrite those already here.
Mewtwo49 ]] I agree. This isn't IGN. Walkthrough level articles should be rewritten. BLIZZARD!! is WAAY too long!
 * 1) Glowsquid I am the proposer and my reasons are given above.
 * 2) [[Image:MiniMario.png|29px]]  Minimariolover10    TALK TO ME ABOUT MINIES!!  Glowsquid is correct. This isn't The Mario Online Encylepedia of Guides minus the bad name. Sure, non-rpg enemies can have it, but levels are wrong.
 * 3) ChaosNinji Per Minimariolover10
 * 4) Walkthrough doesn't work. Encyclopedia style does.
 * 5) Walkazo There are plenty of websites dedicated to Walkthroughs, Super Mario Wiki is here to focus on plot, setting and character.
 * 6) Per all, Seems too Game FAQy.
 * 7) [[User:Mewtwo49|

Allow the creation of this style of article.

 * 1) Son of Suns - Well I do agree many of these level articles need to be re-written in a more formal and in-universe tone, anything that happens in the level is official, and should be reported.  This is an internet encyclopedia, so we can have as much info as possible on any subject.  Plus, info from player's guides is official, so why shouldn't it be included here?  However, maybe the level articles should have a special "Expanded Walthrough" section or something so users don't have to read the walkthrough if they don't want to.
 * 2) - Per Son of Suns
 * 3) - If no guide they'de all be either a bit short or stubs!
 * 4) Booster - Per Son of Suns. Yes, I usually tend to agree with him. I guess we think alike.
 * 5) Per Son of Sons
 * 6) – We shouldn't go too in-depth, but a quick walkthrough strikes me as fine.
 * 7) Hmm... I'm all for getting rid of the "yous" and all of that, but seriously, that stuff is describing the level.  In my opinion, you should only delete what you can rewrite if the information is true.  ...and the walkthrough data is true.  So what do you do?  You describe it and say "how Mario got through it." and now how the player should do it.
 * 8) Per Stumpers.
 * 9) Per Stumpie

Comments
SoS: There is a distinction betweeen describing what happen in a level and telling the reader what to do. Describing how the level jump from a fortress theme to a lava theme, forest theme... ect and what happen in each portion is interessing and encyclopedic. However, telling the reader how to get the DK Coin hiden by the Zinger in Castle Crush isn't encyclopedic. How is the fact that the fith Red Coin can only be accessed by geting the key and killing the Coin Bandit behind the door encyclopedic and revalent to the Marioverse? I agree we should describe in-depth, but we shouldn't go overboard.

Sincerely, Glowsquid


 * I definitely agree the style needs to be changed for a lot of articles, instead of describing what to do, one should describe what's in the level. However, what is "encyclopedic" for a wiki about a video game series?  You can't pick up a "G" encyclopedia and find a GO! GO! MARIO!! entry.  We have nothing to emulate, so saying it is unencyclopedic is a moot point.  What we do know is that everything in the level exists in the Marioverse, and is therefore relevant. -- Son of Suns
 * Well, most encyclopedia have an entry about a notable park, do said encyclopedia tell you to cross the rivers and other natural obstacle as well as giving tip like "Bring your map!" while giving away the location of every single tree/rock? No? Well, that's the same thing here. Mushroom Way is a great example of what we should do for stage writting, it's very detailled and yet, it don't use walkthrought-style writting (Kill that guy, go punch that block for X reward... ect.) -

- Glowsquid


 * Ah. That makes more sense.  Still, I don't think new articles should be prevented because they have a different style.  They are two different ways of showing the same information.  We shouldn't stop an article from being created when we need the information, regardless of what form it's in. -- Son of Suns


 * Well, by "preventing", I don't mean deleting the article and warn the user who created it, but rather add the rewrite tag and (maybe) give the user a small reminder about how he should avoid this style of writting. That how it should be done, IMO. -

- Glowsquid

Also, if we just ignore this, the Wiki will be scrap full because of some levels not like this, while a bunch are, making it a mess! We must get rid of all walkthrough to make it seem more perfersonal, like Wikipedia itself.  Minimariolover10    TALK TO ME ABOUT MINIES!! 

Lario: Not really, a level article can be detailed without having to read like a walkthrought. I think I'll do an example.

Detailled Style (Note, all of this is amde up.): "Grab these Coins!" is the sixth level of World 2 in Yoshi's Revenge. The level initially start out in a castle filled with lava, however, the subsequent section take place in a cave full of Bandits." ect.

Walthrought-style: "Yoshi should jump on the raillift paltfrom above to gain acces to a bunch of red-coins, try to avoid the jumping sparky and try to defeat all the Fly-Guys holding the red-coins. Then, jump on all the Para-Troopa to get the flower..." ect. (I think you get the idea.)

See? You can have plenty of info without making it seem like a walkthrought. - Glowsquid

I am striking my vote through, so it won't count in the end, but I want my original reasonings to stay. Also, others agree with my original assessment, that a walkthrough style article is fine, and their votes are still valid. As Glowsquid stated, articles like this won't be deleted on sight, so I don't mind what the wiki decides on how these articles are written. I doesn't matter to me whether they are walkthrough style or not, just as long as they are not deleted. -- Son of Suns

Moogle and Stumper: Yes, what happen in the levels is canon. But there is a problem, for what we know, Yoshi might not have got the fourth flower in Make Eggs, Throw Eggs, Donkey Kong might not have found the Bonus Barrel in Reptile Rumble, an article about a level should describe what happen in this level, not tell the player how to do this level. Knowing that X level is the only appearance of the Ghost Barrel is encyclopedic, telling the reader how to get the third flower in Watch Out Below! isn't. as I said earlier, Mushroom Way is a great example on how a level article can be detailled without falling into walkthrought-style writting. Glowsquid
 * I agree with Glowsquid on this one. A level article on this Wiki should, in fact, describe what happens in the level, and maybe some of the features in the level, but they should not go on about what to do and what no to do. That is walkthrough style, which is not something an encyclopedia should cover. We don't tell others how to finish a level, we tell them about the level.

To all who say thaat what happen in the level is canon: Yes, you are right. But the problem is, we don't know what happened exactly in this level! Nintendo never told "Yoshi jumped on X and then collected X thingie." For what we know, Yoshi might never have bothered to collect these coins and might have accesed the Extra level by other means. Plus, how is the fact tht X flower is in X location in X levels revelant to the Marioverse? Should we tell the location of every ? Block? Glowsquid


 * To play Devil's advocate, some items are important to actually complete a level, such as the five Flowers on every level in the Yoshi's Island series. You need to collect those to get 100% completion.  You don't need to hit every ? Block to get a 100% completion in the Super Mario series.  The location of Flowers is still important regardless if you say what someone should do to get it, or you simply state where it is in the level.  And wouldn't level articles be awesome is they were totally complete, stating the location of every single ? Block and every single coin?  We could have the most detailed level articles ever! -- Son of Suns


 * I think we should look at the "levels" as if they were simply "stages" in Mario/Yoshi/Donkey Kong/whoever's journey. Yes, in the game you need to smash all the blocks to get 100% and get all the flowers and kill all the enemies etc. etc., but it doesn't work like that in real life. Now I'm not saying Mario is "real life" or anything, all I'm saying is that we shouldn't look at the games as games, but as actual events in the (fictional) lives of Mario and the others. Therefore, instead of writing walkthrough-style articles, we should focus on the plot of the level (i.e. Mario walks through the forest and encounters Wigglers, Goombas and a Fishin' Lakitu). We could still include game-centered facts (like the # of coins, etc.), but perhaps in a different section of the article from the initial overview? - Walkazo


 * Walkazo described it infintelly better than I could. And no, level article wouldn't be "tottaly awesome" if we included the location of every single coin and ? block. Let's say Wikipedia page on the molecule would describe the location of every molecule in the universe, that would be awesome, right? But is the reader advanced in any way in his knowledge of what a molecule is? No? Well, that's the same thing for the Coins and ? Block.

Glowsquid


 * Why did you choose Mushroom Way as your exemplar article? The article describes how to get every single item in the entire level. Why can't that be the same for other levels?  The Mushroom Way article is good because it describes everything in explicit detail - shouldn't we hold the same standards for other articles?  And that molecule example doesn't make sense.  All the article would have to say is that molecules make up everything.  Thus we know the location of all molecules - if there is something there are molecules.  But you can't say a level is made up of coins.   -- Son of Suns


 * Errmmm, you got me on the molecule point. But I still say Mushroom way is examplar ,unlike what you say, yes, it contain an enormemous of info, but unlike BLIZZARD!!!, it dont tell the reader to do X action to get X item or how to kill X enemy, it describe the geography of the area, the special gimmick (The spinning flower and Toad giving you an item.) and all the enemy in it, unlike BLIZZARD!!!, which bassicaly tell you how to do everything.

Glowsquid

I am not saying BLIZZARD!!! is the best article, but even if it is re-written, it should state the location of important items, just as the Mushroom Way article does (regardless if the article says "Yoshi had to go under the snow to get a Flower" or "a Flower is located under a pile of snow in the second section of the level"). -- Son of Suns


 * Ahem, you are right. As Walkazo said, maybe we could have a sperate section ("Important Item location"?) describing the location of the various importants item.

Glowsquid

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