MarioWiki:Proposals

 http://img33.picoodle.com/img/img33/9/9/17/f_propcopym_9045f2d.png A proposal section works like a discussion page: comments are brought up and replied to using indents (colons, such as : or ::::) and all edits are signed with the signature code (~).

How To
 * 1) Actions that users feel are appropriate to have community approval first can be added by anyone, but they must have a strong argument.
 * 2) Users then vote and discuss on the issue during that week. The "deadline" for the proposal is one week from posting at:
 * 3) Monday to Thursday: 17:00 (5pm)
 * 4) Friday and Saturday: 20:00 (8pm)
 * 5) Sunday: 15:00 (3pm)
 * 6) At any time a vote may be rejected if at least three active users believe the vote truly has strong reasons supporting it. Every vote should have a reason accompanying it.
 * 7) " # " should be added under the last vote of each support/oppose section to show another blank line.
 * 8) At the deadline, the validity of each vote and the discussion is reviewed by the community.
 * 9) A user calls the result of the proposal and takes action(s) as decided if necessary, and archives the proposal.

The times are in EDT, and are set so that the user is more likely to be online at those times (after school, weekend nights).

So for example, if a proposal is added on Saturday night at 11:59 PM EDT, the deadline is the next Saturday night at 8:00 PM. If it is indeed a minute later, the deadline is a day plus 15 hours (Sunday), as opposed to a day minus 4 hours.

CURRENTLY: , 27 2024 (EDT)

Add Banjo-Kazooie Artciles
The RecentAdd Banjo - Conker Articles proposer was denied, mainly because of Conker. People thought that he was either too mature, or too hfar removed. Banjo however, has no such problems. His games have all been rated E so far, and the inclusion of Tiptup in Diddy Kong Racing, Diddy Kong Racing DS, Banjo-Kazooie, and Banjo-Tooie, Seems to me worthy to merit Babjo for inclusion on this wiki. As previously stated, Tiptup's appearence in BK - BT was not a cameo- he was alive, and tangible. Nor was it a simple cross-over: Banjo's first appearence was DKR, making the series a SPINOFF of Mario. Other series that included Mario characters/enemies (LoZ,F-Zero, Tetris....) were made with there title characters first appearing in one of there own games.

Sooo... vote, and all.

Proposer: UltimateToad Deadline: 4:00 P.M. Saturday Spetember 29th

Add Banjo Articles

 * 1) Ultimatetoad
 * 08:37, 26 September 2007 (EDT): Yes! Even my brother has been thinking if Banjo-Kazooie articles should be made for a long time now. I even have more proof: In Donkey Kong's room in DK64, there is a locker with a picture of Banj and Kazooie's heads on the side. Not, only that, but one of the mole children from Banjo-Tooies was holding a DK doll! There are connections!

Keep Them Out

 * 1) Son of Suns - Conker is as connected as Banjo is. Both franchises developed out of the DK series, and both live in the same universe as Donkey and Diddy Kong.  I don't think it is fair to have one without the other.
 * 2) If Conker's out, Bajo's getting the door slammed in his face as well. 08:07, 23 September 2007 (EDT)
 * 3) - They are still too far from the Mario series, Tiptup doesn't change that, his only "Mario" appearance was Diddy Kong Racing (DS), too.
 * 4) Walkazo - Per Cobold.
 * 5) – Per SoS.
 * 6) Per Cobold.
 * 7) Too minor.

FA Support
The FA system was replaced numerous times, only to go back to the same flawed system. No mistake has been corrected that a supporter must give a reason to support, and I have seen many users support saying "I like character he should be an FA". Well, no longer. 00:46, 29 September 2007 (EDT)
 * Deadline: 20:00, Oct. 5

Support

 * 1) Reasons above

Oppose

 * 1) Son of Suns - Just because an article is nominated doesn't mean it will become an FA. If it is not FA worthy, opposers will oppose, and if supporters do not change the article, the nomination will eventually be dropped.  The rules state that inactive nominations will be deleted in a month.  You need to have more patience - the FA process takes a long time.  It's not even October yet.  And it's not a big deal to have a few nominations.  All a support means is that you agree with the FA requirements.  Are you proposing someone just lists all the qualities already listed on the FA page?  We would then have to remove every sigle support vote right now, because not everyone is listing every single criteria.  It doesn't make sense to have to provide a reason to support, cause all your reasons are already listed on the FA page.  All a support means is that you will work on the article.  If you don't - oh well, the article does not become an FA and the nomination is eventually deleted.

Comments
So I'm clear, your's proposing that users have better reasons for voting on FAs, right? -- Chris 01:33, 29 September 2007 (EDT)

You are not clear enough, if you mean that support vote for FA should have a better reason, I deffinatelly agree. Glowsquid


 * Maybe make to were we don't need to make comments but take out the supports like "Bowser rules", "Long live King K Rool", "Who doesn't Love Daisy?" ETC.


 * Maybe they both support the article and like the character. Some supports even say this article isn't very good, but it could be, and we allow those.  Maybe supports just shouldn't have reasons next to them? -- Son of Suns
 * I mean that a support vote for an FA should have a valid reason like our proposals need a valid reason to support. 21:33, 29 September 2007 (EDT)

X's right let's take down those votes User:Mr. Guy

It's not just America
This is something that upsets me greatly almost everywhere, not just on this site; people seem to assume that the only place where games are released in English is America. In most of the profiles here, things are said to have happened in "the American version." I want this stopped; it's not fair on other English-speaking countries. It should be refferred to as the "English version," or at the very least, "the American and European version."

Proposer: Davidk92 Deadline: 21:26 EDT

Support

 * 1) Davidk92 - My reasons given above.
 * 2) [[Image:MiniMario.png|29px]]  Minimariolover10    TALK TO ME ABOUT MINIES!!  Yeah. Either though I do live in USA, a lot of users are still from Europe! It's not like USA is the only country that has the internet.
 * 3) Super Yoshi10 02:34, 29 September 2007 (EDT): I agree with you two because for example I live in Australia and in the mario party series koopa kid is called mini bowser!

Oppose

 * 1) There are differances between the American and PAL (Australia and Europe) games.
 * 2) From a research standpoint, to say that something is true in the European version just because it's true in the American version is a falsity, like DP says above.  I know it feels like users like me have forgotten about Europe, but as we only play the American versions, you really can't point fingers.  Whenever you see something that's true in the PAL versions as well, I hope you'll change it to say: American and PAL versions.  Everyone's just contributing what they know about, so represent Europe for us, ok?  Oh, and on a side note, no, I'm not coming back from hiatus yet.  Just checking up on things.
 * 3) - The versions are indeed different, just check Luigi's Mansion. The PAL version can be noted at some points, but the problem is that it has many different languages which may all have different names.
 * 4) Walkazo - Per above, the two versions are often different, and if they're not, it should say "Engish version". Also, us Canadians get the American games too, so it's not really the United States version, but the North America version, just so you know.
 * 5) Per Stumpers.

"Representing"
Many articles say they look similar or represent when just because they are the same representing species. For an example, Sidestepper's trivia says that they resemble Dovo, however they don't. Dovos do not like anything like a Sidestepper, and they probably weren't even remembering Sidesteppers when making the game. Sure, some represent other things, but not most of them. I'm saying to remove the trivia that says that they represent these that aren't truly representing.

Proposper: Minimariolover10 Deadline: 11:59 PM EDT

Support

 * 1) [[Image:MiniMario.png|29px]]  Minimariolover10    TALK TO ME ABOUT MINIES!!  My reasons given above

Oppose

 * 1) Son of Suns - I don't think this is worthy of a proposal. If you feel something doesn't look like something else, just remove the trivia, or debate it on the talk page. A lot of enemies do resemble each other, and the Super Mario Wiki attempts to make connections between enemies and games.
 * 2) Glowsquid - What SOS said.
 * 3) - This should be decided separately for each case. Also, Trivia sections should be limited to a minimum.
 * 4) Per Cobold
 * 5) Walkazo - Per SOS and Cobold.
 * 6) – Per SoS and Cobold. Your Dovo/Sidestepper thing was a good example of a possibly unnecessary Trivia entry, but it's probably something that shouldn't be taken to Proposals.

Comments
Yes, I know, but in some cases it isn't connecting.  Minimariolover10    TALK TO ME ABOUT MINIES!!  And about it not being worthy, I want other users to know SOME don't look similar so they could clear it if another doing this job is missing it.


 * Therefore you should be bold. Not everything needs a proposal.  Make the changes you feel are correct. -- Son of Suns

Subsized Categorys
Every once in a while, a category that can have too few enteries shows up. Such as Category:X-Naut's Weapons (Though it's deleted), so I think that those should be prevented like stub articles.

Proposer: Lario Deadline: 20:00, 22 September 2007

Prevent Them

 * 1) This is important

Keep Them

 * 1) They are still categories. I think that stuff like that should exist if it's not only one article.  13:24, 16 September 2007 (EDT)

Comments
I think we should just do a case by case basis, like new articles. We ask: "Is there enough for its inclusion?" There's no way to prevent someone from creating categories - we just have to decide if they are needed when it happens. I don't think this proposal can do much, so I am not voting either way. -- Son of Suns
 * I agree. - Walkazo

Improvement Drive Idea
I think we should have a project similar to Featured Articles and the Pipe Plaza, where, instead of pointing out the best articles, we point out the ones that need Work, so users can all work on one project, instead of everyone editing the "featured article" status ones, and leaving articles like Doopliss un-edited.

The process would be similar to Featured Articles. We make a new page about the project, where we come together and list the articles we think are shortest, but have potential. Then, we might make a box on the main page to show what the article is. Each article will get one week on the main page, again, similar to Featured Articles.

I know no-one may say yes cause I'm not someone who edits, but I think this would help users, ecspecially new users, who may be nervous making an article. This does not mean we will have stub articles, and I frankly think this project will prevent them.

Proposer: Max2 Deadline: 20:00, 22 September 2007

Give it a Try

 * 1) Supporter, reasons given above
 * 2) Sounds like a good idea!
 * 3) -Per Max2
 * 4) Minimariolover10 I agree. It won't fail. Plus, we have no idea what to edit, and recently messages aren't replying fast.
 * 06:57, 17 September 2007 (EDT) I'll help, it seems like a neat idea.
 * 1) [[Image:Triforce.gif|30 px]] CaptainN [[Image:Triforce.gif|30 px]] I think that would help!
 * 2) Per Max2. 14:13, 21 September 2007 (EDT)
 * 3) I think it's a great idea, and could work.
 * 4) – Sounds good. It's at least worth a try.

Nah

 * 1) These projects always seem to fail. I don't think we're ready for it yet.
 * 2) See my comments

Comments
Are you thinking about something like PAIR; or an Improvement Drive, where we pick one article a week or month, feature it somewhere and encourage all users to work on it? Or are you thinking something else? It would be nice to get a better sense of what you are thinking, cause I am all for helping users getting active and making improvements. -- Son of Suns

Yeah, an Improvement Drive. That's exactly what I mean!

Okay. I think you need to clarify some points. You should state above what this would entaiil exactly. For starters, you can answer these questions and put them in the proposal itself. Would users vote for an article to be improved (the one with the most votes gets featured)? Would the article be featured for a week, a month, etc.? And would the article be featured on the main page (like, This Week (or month)'s Collaboration is: so and so) with a link to that page? -- Son of Suns

Ok. Is this clarified enough? I added descriptions of the aspects of the project, how to set it up, and why I think it would work.


 * Yes. That makes sense.  One more question: would one of the secondary goals be to get improvement drive articles to FA standards, if the subject is notable? (An aside: even Doopliss is a notable subject - it could become an FA.) -- Son of Suns

Well, as most users say, the goal for every article would be to become an FA. i'm ont saying we only improve articles that can be FA articles, this is mainly just to cut back on stubs and short articles.


 * That makes sense. I wish you the best of luck with this project.  I don't know how I feel about this yet, as previous improvement drive/collaboration projects have failed.  We'll see what happens. =) -- Son of Suns

It seems to be sort of popular with the crowd. Except Plumber.


 * Projects like this have been tried before and failed, perhaps we should wait till we have a larger community and more editors.

I wish more people knew about MarioWiki at MFGG, then we'd sure get a lot of new users! Though I hope kingmetroid doesn't come.  Minimariolover10    TALK TO ME ABOUT MINIES!! 

While many simillar idea have all been tried (and failed miserably.), this one seem to actually have a decent following, why not give it a try? Glowsquid


 * Who would head this project? Max?

I guess I would. or let someone else take over it if they want. And, Xz, this wouldn't fail. We might not get every article up to like FA Status, but people will work on it. I also know me being in charge was likely a "no" factor, and I'm not saying to change your vote, only that the whole thing is actually well thought out and simple enough that anybody could join in on it.

Walkthrougth-style level article.
Most article about level's are fine, however a few (BLIZZARD!!! is a big offender.) read like something out of a player guide. Level articles should state:
 * 1) Where it take place.
 * 2) The enemies that are in it.
 * 3) The special gimmick (If there's one.)

This is an encyclopedia, an article shouldn't tell where to find that last Flower or how to defeat Koin. If I want that kind of information, I'll go on Gamefaq.

Proposer: Glowsquid Deadline: September 30, 15:00 EDT

Prevent the creation of that kind of article and rewrite those already here.
Mewtwo49 ]] I agree. This isn't IGN. Walkthrough level articles should be rewritten. BLIZZARD!! is WAAY too long!
 * 1) Glowsquid I am the proposer and my reasons are given above.
 * 2) [[Image:MiniMario.png|29px]]  Minimariolover10    TALK TO ME ABOUT MINIES!!  Glowsquid is correct. This isn't The Mario Online Encylepedia of Guides minus the bad name. Sure, non-rpg enemies can have it, but levels are wrong.
 * 3) ChaosNinji Per Minimariolover10
 * 4) Walkthrough doesn't work. Encyclopedia style does.
 * 5) Walkazo There are plenty of websites dedicated to Walkthroughs, Super Mario Wiki is here to focus on plot, setting and character.
 * 6) Per all, Seems too Game FAQy.
 * 7) [[User:Mewtwo49|

Allow the creation of this style of article.

 * 1) Son of Suns - Well I do agree many of these level articles need to be re-written in a more formal and in-universe tone, anything that happens in the level is official, and should be reported.  This is an internet encyclopedia, so we can have as much info as possible on any subject.  Plus, info from player's guides is official, so why shouldn't it be included here?  However, maybe the level articles should have a special "Expanded Walthrough" section or something so users don't have to read the walkthrough if they don't want to.
 * 2) - Per Son of Suns
 * 3) - If no guide they'de all be either a bit short or stubs!
 * 4) Booster - Per Son of Suns. Yes, I usually tend to agree with him. I guess we think alike.
 * 5) Per Son of Sons
 * 6) – We shouldn't go too in-depth, but a quick walkthrough strikes me as fine.
 * 7) Hmm... I'm all for getting rid of the "yous" and all of that, but seriously, that stuff is describing the level.  In my opinion, you should only delete what you can rewrite if the information is true.  ...and the walkthrough data is true.  So what do you do?  You describe it and say "how Mario got through it." and now how the player should do it.
 * 8) Per Stumpers.
 * 9) Per Stumpie

Comments
SoS: There is a distinction betweeen describing what happen in a level and telling the reader what to do. Describing how the level jump from a fortress theme to a lava theme, forest theme... ect and what happen in each portion is interessing and encyclopedic. However, telling the reader how to get the DK Coin hiden by the Zinger in Castle Crush isn't encyclopedic. How is the fact that the fith Red Coin can only be accessed by geting the key and killing the Coin Bandit behind the door encyclopedic and revalent to the Marioverse? I agree we should describe in-depth, but we shouldn't go overboard.

Sincerely, Glowsquid


 * I definitely agree the style needs to be changed for a lot of articles, instead of describing what to do, one should describe what's in the level. However, what is "encyclopedic" for a wiki about a video game series?  You can't pick up a "G" encyclopedia and find a GO! GO! MARIO!! entry.  We have nothing to emulate, so saying it is unencyclopedic is a moot point.  What we do know is that everything in the level exists in the Marioverse, and is therefore relevant. -- Son of Suns
 * Well, most encyclopedia have an entry about a notable park, do said encyclopedia tell you to cross the rivers and other natural obstacle as well as giving tip like "Bring your map!" while giving away the location of every single tree/rock? No? Well, that's the same thing here. Mushroom Way is a great example of what we should do for stage writting, it's very detailled and yet, it don't use walkthrought-style writting (Kill that guy, go punch that block for X reward... ect.) -

- Glowsquid


 * Ah. That makes more sense.  Still, I don't think new articles should be prevented because they have a different style.  They are two different ways of showing the same information.  We shouldn't stop an article from being created when we need the information, regardless of what form it's in. -- Son of Suns


 * Well, by "preventing", I don't mean deleting the article and warn the user who created it, but rather add the rewrite tag and (maybe) give the user a small reminder about how he should avoid this style of writting. That how it should be done, IMO. -

- Glowsquid

Also, if we just ignore this, the Wiki will be scrap full because of some levels not like this, while a bunch are, making it a mess! We must get rid of all walkthrough to make it seem more perfersonal, like Wikipedia itself.  Minimariolover10    TALK TO ME ABOUT MINIES!! 

Lario: Not really, a level article can be detailed without having to read like a walkthrought. I think I'll do an example.

Detailled Style (Note, all of this is amde up.): "Grab these Coins!" is the sixth level of World 2 in Yoshi's Revenge. The level initially start out in a castle filled with lava, however, the subsequent section take place in a cave full of Bandits." ect.

Walthrought-style: "Yoshi should jump on the raillift paltfrom above to gain acces to a bunch of red-coins, try to avoid the jumping sparky and try to defeat all the Fly-Guys holding the red-coins. Then, jump on all the Para-Troopa to get the flower..." ect. (I think you get the idea.)

See? You can have plenty of info without making it seem like a walkthrought. - Glowsquid

I am striking my vote through, so it won't count in the end, but I want my original reasonings to stay. Also, others agree with my original assessment, that a walkthrough style article is fine, and their votes are still valid. As Glowsquid stated, articles like this won't be deleted on sight, so I don't mind what the wiki decides on how these articles are written. I doesn't matter to me whether they are walkthrough style or not, just as long as they are not deleted. -- Son of Suns

Moogle and Stumper: Yes, what happen in the levels is canon. But there is a problem, for what we know, Yoshi might not have got the fourth flower in Make Eggs, Throw Eggs, Donkey Kong might not have found the Bonus Barrel in Reptile Rumble, an article about a level should describe what happen in this level, not tell the player how to do this level. Knowing that X level is the only appearance of the Ghost Barrel is encyclopedic, telling the reader how to get the third flower in Watch Out Below! isn't. as I said earlier, Mushroom Way is a great example on how a level article can be detailled without falling into walkthrought-style writting. Glowsquid
 * I agree with Glowsquid on this one. A level article on this Wiki should, in fact, describe what happens in the level, and maybe some of the features in the level, but they should not go on about what to do and what no to do. That is walkthrough style, which is not something an encyclopedia should cover. We don't tell others how to finish a level, we tell them about the level.

To all who say thaat what happen in the level is canon: Yes, you are right. But the problem is, we don't know what happened exactly in this level! Nintendo never told "Yoshi jumped on X and then collected X thingie." For what we know, Yoshi might never have bothered to collect these coins and might have accesed the Extra level by other means. Plus, how is the fact tht X flower is in X location in X levels revelant to the Marioverse? Should we tell the location of every ? Block? Glowsquid


 * To play Devil's advocate, some items are important to actually complete a level, such as the five Flowers on every level in the Yoshi's Island series. You need to collect those to get 100% completion.  You don't need to hit every ? Block to get a 100% completion in the Super Mario series.  The location of Flowers is still important regardless if you say what someone should do to get it, or you simply state where it is in the level.  And wouldn't level articles be awesome is they were totally complete, stating the location of every single ? Block and every single coin?  We could have the most detailed level articles ever! -- Son of Suns


 * I think we should look at the "levels" as if they were simply "stages" in Mario/Yoshi/Donkey Kong/whoever's journey. Yes, in the game you need to smash all the blocks to get 100% and get all the flowers and kill all the enemies etc. etc., but it doesn't work like that in real life. Now I'm not saying Mario is "real life" or anything, all I'm saying is that we shouldn't look at the games as games, but as actual events in the (fictional) lives of Mario and the others. Therefore, instead of writing walkthrough-style articles, we should focus on the plot of the level (i.e. Mario walks through the forest and encounters Wigglers, Goombas and a Fishin' Lakitu). We could still include game-centered facts (like the # of coins, etc.), but perhaps in a different section of the article from the initial overview? - Walkazo


 * Walkazo described it infintelly better than I could. And no, level article wouldn't be "tottaly awesome" if we included the location of every single coin and ? block. Let's say Wikipedia page on the molecule would describe the location of every molecule in the universe, that would be awesome, right? But is the reader advanced in any way in his knowledge of what a molecule is? No? Well, that's the same thing for the Coins and ? Block.

Glowsquid


 * Why did you choose Mushroom Way as your exemplar article? The article describes how to get every single item in the entire level. Why can't that be the same for other levels?  The Mushroom Way article is good because it describes everything in explicit detail - shouldn't we hold the same standards for other articles?  And that molecule example doesn't make sense.  All the article would have to say is that molecules make up everything.  Thus we know the location of all molecules - if there is something there are molecules.  But you can't say a level is made up of coins.   -- Son of Suns


 * Errmmm, you got me on the molecule point. But I still say Mushroom way is examplar ,unlike what you say, yes, it contain an enormemous of info, but unlike BLIZZARD!!!, it dont tell the reader to do X action to get X item or how to kill X enemy, it describe the geography of the area, the special gimmick (The spinning flower and Toad giving you an item.) and all the enemy in it, unlike BLIZZARD!!!, which bassicaly tell you how to do everything.

Glowsquid

I am not saying BLIZZARD!!! is the best article, but even if it is re-written, it should state the location of important items, just as the Mushroom Way article does (regardless if the article says "Yoshi had to go under the snow to get a Flower" or "a Flower is located under a pile of snow in the second section of the level"). -- Son of Suns


 * Ahem, you are right. As Walkazo said, maybe we could have a sperate section ("Important Item location"?) describing the location of the various importants item.

Glowsquid

"Creative" header
Some lenghty article are broke up in section, each section having it own header. Some article, such as Yoshi have section-header that differ from the plain (Insert name of the game here.) formula. The problem is, those header make the wiki look informal and amateurish ("Humble Beginnings " is not something that I would qualify as profesionnal, really.), also, the fact than there is two style of headers might confuse the new users. This can really get confusing if the section don't mention the name of the game (Which is quite often.), the proposal is to get rid of all these "creative" header and replace them with more professional-sounding one.

Proposer: Glowsquid Deadline: October 6 15:00 EDT

Crush 'em

 * 1) Glowsquid I am the proposer and my reasons are given above.
 * 2) Mr.Vruet That's a good idea accually.

Let them be

 * 1) Son of Suns - I think I started this trend. I got the idea from Wookiepedia.  Events are described in-universe, so I tried to create headers that described the events in the game.  I think sub-headers can be "creative", but should sound more encyclopedic.  Headers should describe a character's role in a game or the general events of the game.  However, I don't think all articles need to be written in this style.  Unlike Wikipedia, it's okay to have different style articles here, and users can decide how they want to order an article.  King K. Rool might work better listing events game by game by release date, but Yoshi might work better with "creative headers", as some games take place in the past.  I think a lot of sub-headers need to be written better, or changed (which you are free to do Glowsquid) but I think the style is just fine.  And I don't think it's confusing - it just shows the variety of writing styles on the wiki.

Comments
SOS: By "confusing", I meant it might confuse the new user on hwo to write those headers, what to do, a creative header or a plain one? Glowsquid


 * Oh I understand, and I think new users will either pick a style or just ask someone for help, or even pick a different style based on the article they are writing. -- Son of Suns

Merges and Splits
No current proposals.

Pers, I agrees...
Okay every time I go on here I noticed several users say "Per ___" "I agree" or "___ is right" but I think these shouldn't be said all the time because whoever say those are to lazy to think of something.

Proposer: Mr. Guy Deadline: 2 October 17:00 EDT.

Prevent constant these

 * 1) - These are plain annoying

Just let them

 * 1) – I don't see how they're really a problem. They're still reasons; they're done simply because people do agree and don't want to completely repeat each other, not because they're too lazy to think of something.
 * 2) Ironicly, Per YY
 * 3) - When you force everyone to make up their own reasons, you have a set limited number of votes there can be.
 * 4) per Cobold. We have so few active users, limiting ourselves further is suicide.
 * 5) Per YY398. --
 * 6) Walkazo - A lot of the time whatever comment I would've made has already been said, it'd be stupid to say the exact same thing, and as YY398 said, way to repetative. By saying Per_ or whatever we're proving that we actually read through it all and thought about it before signing our names. How's that lazy?
 * 7) Per everyone (indeed, I am too lazy to think up something that others have already put into words)
 * 8) -C'mon, we can't all think of different reasons. Sometimes we have the same opinions.
 * 9) Per the other guys, what if you thought of it, then saw someone else had already said the same thing?

Comments
And by the way, you shouldn't call others "lazy" when you're not adding a "Comment" headline, not making a line break, not even filling in the deadline. - 10:41, 25 September 2007 (EDT)
 * Yeah, and shouldn't this be under Miscellaneous? It's not exactly a removal. - Walkazo
 * Yes, it should and has been moved accordingly. -- [[Image:Shyghost.PNG]]Chris[[Image:Shyghost.PNG]] 23:15, 25 September 2007 (EDT)
 * Thanks. - Walkazo