MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/34

Remakes
WITHDRAWN BY PROPOSER

I think something needs to be done about the way we treat remake games. We have articles for games such as Super Mario 64 DS and Donkey Kong Country Returns 3D, but the whole Super Mario Advance series are all merged with their original games. While those remakes aren't nearly as different as their original games, they still have their differences and should still be treated as other remakes are in the wiki. I propose that we either split all remakes from their original games and give them their own articles or merge all remakes into their original games.

Proposer: Deadline: June 1, 2013, 23:59 GMT

Split all remakes into individual articles

 * 1) I say split

Comments
Sorry, it's already an official policy. It just hasn't been enforced everywhere yet. -- 09:53, 25 May 2013 (EDT)


 * So remakes already get their own pages?

Yes, they should. But not all of them have as of yet, as there's quite a bit of work involved. Splitting the article does not just mean to create a separate page. There are individual categories that need to be created, character/enemy history entries to add, templates and (many) links to update. And the article can't just be a cut-paste of the "#Remakes" section of the original article. -- 10:02, 25 May 2013 (EDT)


 * Alright, then I guess I should withdrawal this proposal since there's already the policy.

Note that SMA games are more ports than remakes. A general term would be "reissues" (but that doesn't really matter). 13:55, 25 May 2013 (EDT)


 * Yeah, withdrawing would be best: it's early enough that you can remove/archive it yourself. -

Write "Glitches" Section for levels
DON'T WRITE SECTION 1-10

I think that if a person knows of a level glitch, but forgot how to do it, they should not have to go down an incredibly long list to find it. This would make the process a lot less tedious as well.

Proposer: Deadline: May 28, 2013, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) Per reasons above.

Oppose

 * 1) Why is this restricted only for levels? Doing so breaks consistency for the rest of the articles. Besides, if they're searching for a glitch, they should use Crtl + F and keywords. All glitches should stay on their respective pages.
 * 2) That would be pointless; there are already glitch pages for almost every game, and as Baby Luigi said, you can just user the "Find" tool to look for certain glitches.
 * 3) Per all. And what if a particular glitch appears in many levels, not just one?
 * 4) Per all.
 * 5) Per all.
 * 6) Per all.
 * 7) - Per all.
 * 8) • Just type "Glitches of " in the serch box and click Search. It's not that hard.
 * 9) Per Once and Only Once it will be found on the level and on the glitches page, and per Baby Luigi.
 * 10) - Per all.

Comments
I have to say I am in no sides on this one, it sounds like a great idea, but baby luigi IS right, every computer can use ctrl+f to find glitches. Robecuba (talk)

@YoshiKong: Then it would be put in as ex.: this glitch also appears in [insert level(s) where glitch appears here]. MegaDigga3 (talk)

We can add a "See [insert glitches link here] for glitches" or something like that.-- 10:42, 25 May 2013 (EDT)

Change Main page rotation to Mondays
LEAVE THE ROTATION DAY AS SATURDAYS 1-7

The Main Page is very important on the wiki, so why is it that we rotate every Sat.? Mondays are better I think because of the fact it's the beginning of the week. This makes for easier remembering to rotate items.

Proposer: Deadline: May 31, 2013, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) Per above.

Oppose

 * 1) How do you think people remember stuff better on Mondays? Kinda unnessecary (tell me if I misspelled that.)
 * 2) This change is unnecessary and the reasoning for the change is pretty weak. It all boils down to preference, and I don't think we need to change anything here. Sunday, Monday, Tuesday...it doesn't matter at all.
 * 3) And what's the difference? Unnessecary.
 * 4) I see no logical reason for this, it is perfectly fine the way it is.
 * 5) No point.
 * 6) - Well, I don't think it would make that much of a difference, so yeah, per all.
 * 7) I don't think it matters.

Comments
It's Unnecessary so I wouldn't even vote 17:09, 26 May 2013 (EDT)

Merge the DK: Jungle Climber navigational templates
MERGE TEMPLATES 9-0

Merge all of the DK: Jungle Climber navigational templates into one template (with a separate template for the levels)

The way that the templates for DK: Jungle Climber are set up is just... odd. The characters, the minigames, the worlds, and the levels in each world all have templates made specifically for them, and I am just confused as to why. There are only nine characters in the game (including major and minor) seven minigames, six worlds, and thirty levels in this game, and that's not including the enemies that we never decided to list and the items that were haphazardly listed. At most, we have (or at least should have) an individual template for anything that has a lot of entries for it (levels, minigames, items, etc.), and then one for everything else. However, the individual templates usually have around 50 or more entries in them, whereas here, we have at most, nine, and that's for the characters. So, I propose to merge all of these templates (Jungle Climber for the characters, DKJC-Minigames, Worlds in DKJC, Sun Sun Island, Lost Island, and Chill 'n' Char Island) into two templates; one for the six worlds and thirty levels, and one for all the other templates, as well as including any other elements that are not included in any of these templates, such as enemies and items. Since I'm only able to work with what the wiki currently has (and I'll presumably be the one creating this all-inclusive template), the template might not be entirely complete, but in my opinion, it'll look a lot better than what we currently have.

Proposer: Deadline: June 2, 2013, 23:59 GMT

Merge templates

 * 1) Per proposal.
 * 2) Per proposal, and if I'm correct all the games do this anyway so it keeps it consistent.
 * 3) Per Yoshi876.
 * 4) Per proposal.
 * 5) &mdash; Per all.
 * 6) Per all.
 * 7) Per policy.
 * 8) Per all.
 * 9) Per all.

Comments
I think put in "DK: Jungle Climber Places" for the first of two templates mentioned.

You don't need a proposal for this: policy already states that games should only get single all-inclusive templates (although they can leave levels separate, as well as other sprawling groups of pages that will make the template unwieldy if they're included). -

Delete quote sections/articles that don't have any meaningful quotes
VETOED BY THE ADMINISTRATORS Deleting entire quote pages for spin-off games is stripping the wiki of valuable information: it is better to simply trim out the unnecessary quotes, but leave the pages and sections intact.

Delete quotes articles and sections in the sporting games and Mario Party series, if they are composed of meaningless ones i.e. "Hooray"

These sections/pages are not needed. People do not need to read "Let's-a-go" or "Congratulations" as these are just simple words. The quotes sections should be for character development not "Here I go!". And most of these have been under construction for many years, List of quotes in the Mario Kart series has been under construction since 2008, so people aren't contributing to it. I think these pages are unneeded should therefore be deleted.

Proposer: Deadline: June 3, 2013, 23:59 GMT

Delete pages

 * 1) Per proposal.
 * 2) Per proposal. No-one needs to read short and stupid things like "congratulations" or even Lakitu signs.
 * 3) Per proposal. This has been on the back of my mind for a while.
 * 4) I look at the list of Mario Kart Quotes and under Mario's section for Mario Kart 64, it lists what he says on the main menu. Him saying "Data" or "Options" don't really count as quotes. In short per all, we don't need quotes of characters saying what mode your in.
 * 5) Per proposal.
 * 6) - Per all.
 * 7) -- Per all, people don't need to reading short and dumb things like "Peach!".
 * 8) Per all.

Keep the pages

 * 1)  This isn't the right decision. While most of these quotes are inane and pointless, we should delete the inane and pointless quotes instead of deleting the entire page. Believe it or not, some sporting and Mario Party games DO contain meaningful quotes (see: List of quotes in Mario Super Sluggers) and therefore, if this proposal passes, we delete not only the short, pointless ones, but also the ones where the proposal EXPLICITLY STATES that it should support. So it's very contradictory.
 * 2) They are quotes nonetheless. It's not because it's not very meaningful that it's less canon or something. However I think we should add specifications (i.e.: when they say the quotes; some articles already do this)

Comments
@BabyLuigi I see your point, and that was one thing that worried me, so I'll change it to the ones that are entirely composed of stupid "Yahoos" and so on.

Shouldn't we reset votes? Because this proposal got altered, making my oppose vote pointless
 * I did, but Walkazo said that even though it's been changed, I can't remove the votes. You might be able to remove your oppose, or you'll just have to put the line through it.
 * Yeah, you can't remove comments and votes like that - although if the users don't check back in on their own, you can contact them and let them know the proposal changed and their votes are no longer applicable. Also, since Baby Luigi's original vote was addressed in the comments, it would be best if she'd slash it out, rather than remove it - and then re-cast or rewrite her vote, if she so chooses, of course. -
 * My only concern with getting rid of those two, is that they'd probably still agree. I mean the proposal only changed to keep the meaningful quotes and so I highly doubt they'd say 'No, let's get rid of those ones as well'.
 * Well, you don't have to let the users know there was a slight change: it's ultimately up to a voter to check back in even after they vote. If a proposer wants to let them know, they can, but if they don't, they don't; like you said, they'll probably keep supporting, so if you want to just leave it, that's perfectly fine. If there was a major change, it'd be best to archive and restart the proposal, that way the voting is reset, but that'd be unnecessary here. Don't be concerned about something you don't have to do anyway. -

Empty sections templates
CREATE TEMPLATE 12-0

We have the Trivia page, and the Template:Trivia page to warn contributors about overly long trivia sections. Since we have the Empty Section Policy page, I think we should create a Template:Empty page. It would look like something like this:

 This section is empty. Please add a short description of the main article.

We would also:
 * add this template in every empty section;
 * create a category to find every empty section in an easy way;
 * add this category in the Maintenance page.

Proposer: Deadline: June 4, 2013, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) This is my proposal.
 * 2) From what I understand, I think it is a good idea.
 * 3) Per proposal.
 * 4) Per proposal, except make the template a different color than the trivia one.
 * 5) Per Baby Luigi.
 * 6) Per Baby Luigi. I also think that it should be just a tad more descriptive.
 * 7) &mdash; Per Baby Luigi and MegaDigga3.
 * 8) Per all.
 * 9) Per Banon and Baby Luigi.
 * 10) Per all.  A different colour would be better though, like maybe a dark blue or purple.
 * 11) Per proposal.
 * 12) Per all.

Comments
I agree for your criticisms about the template. Feel free to make your own version of the template! —


 * What about this:

 This section linking to another article is empty. Please add a short description of the main article.


 * Also, I'm not very good at coding so someone should probably look at it... 09:54, 30 May 2013 (EDT)
 * It looks too much like the image template. I suggest

 This section linking to another article is empty. Please add a short description of the main article.
 * 18:18, 30 May 2013 (EDT)
 * That one looks similar to Template:MoreImages. Also, I'm pretty sure you can't use your custom sigs here.
 * Yeah yeah, I'll change my sig. It's a nasty habit I have. But thanks for notifying me of that. I'll think of another color:

 This section linking to another article is empty. Please add a short description of the main article.
 * Black... I believe no other template uses that color. That could work, but how about we just give it the same/similar colors to Template:Trivia?
 * Black... I believe no other template uses that color. That could work, but how about we just give it the same/similar colors to Template:Trivia?

 This section linking to another article is empty. Please add a short description of the main article.


 * I agree that it would be best to make it look like . This is dealing with the same sorta issue as Trivia (a section of the page needs work because it's not up to current standards), so consistency makes sense. Plus it's not a huge, pressing issue, so brightly coloured templates would be unnecessarily eye-catching; they're also a bit of an eye-sore, and if anything, might make the page look worse than it would with latent empty sections. -
 * I dunno why, but I like black for referencing something empty. But whatever floats your boat.

Hey, why do you absolutely want that this template be different than any other? I think consistency is best. Actually I think every notice or navigation template should be of the same color (maybe it's worth a proposal, I don't know).
 * That would cause more confusion than it's worth.
 * Consistency shouldn't apply to notice templates. It would be pretty confusing to see all templates as a different color. A standard may be all right, but not making them all the same color.
 * I don't get it: you say it's confusing if they're all in a different color, but then you say you don't want them to be all the same color.
 * Sorry for the contradictory statement. I meant it would be confusing if it was all in the same color. I don't know how that ended up on the screen.

Mostly, all those sections with each other in one page are empty.. I mean probably no one fix a single section without fixing the other. The trouble is: We will need to put the template everywhere on the page.. and one page would have up to 5 of the same templates. I really know this template is Important but before we do anything we have to discuss this problem first. Probably changing the wording (for ex: The following sections are linking to other article are empty. Please add a short description of the main article ) or something like that, and then add the template to the top of all the sections. Here is an example image see here.04:26, 1 June 2013 (EDT)
 * You're right, but I think we should do it anyway. We can't just add one template if there are five empty sections. IMO we should add the template everywhere, and then a category in the Maintenance page. If we do this, there would probably be a fewer number of templates soon (contributors would most likely write short descriptions and remove the templates).
 * We can also change it to "The page contains Empty Sections. Please add a short description of the main article" so only one can be incorporated.

Y'know, instead of many templates, or one template, one could always simply add stuff to the empty sections... You're already seeking them out, so why not just fix them as you go instead of adding ugly templates and coming back "later"; at least when the sections are simply empty, random readers won't know that's a bad thing, whereas they'll certainly notice the template(s). I've been mulling it over since the proposal was first made, and I am still failing to see how this is the best way to go about the issue... -
 * The only problem I have with this is that not everyone knows about the Empty Sections Policy, and putting a hideous template there notifies them about the problem
 * What about this:

 This article contains one or several empty sections. Please add a short description of the respective main articles.
 * I agree with you, except that your point is valid for every notice template, as Trivia, Construction, Image, or Image-quality. The only difference would be that it's shorter, but it's still long in the long run. The point of these templates is to seek them out for us and other contributors. —
 * I agree with you, except that your point is valid for every notice template, as Trivia, Construction, Image, or Image-quality. The only difference would be that it's shorter, but it's still long in the long run. The point of these templates is to seek them out for us and other contributors. —


 * I have the same issue with the Trivia template, tbh: just take an extra couple minutes to remove or incorporate some stuff, rather than slapping on a template and hoping someone else does the dirty work. Construction (and Rewrite) is for pages that require a lot of work and will obviously look incomplete in the meantime, so that template makes sense; Image is also a bit more involved, especially if the images need uploading, which not everyone can do anyway, hence the validity of using Image-quality to try to get the attention of someone who can improve the image. However, removing Trivia, adding a sample image gallery, or making a quick blurb about beta elements or glitches or whatever is something that anyone should be able to do in a reasonably short amount of time. As for the draft, the second sentence might be better if it read: "Please add short previews of the separate pages that are linked to by these sections." ("previews" seems more accurate to what we want than "descriptions", afaik). -
 * Agreed. So maybe I should withdraw my proposal and replace it by a collab thread on the forum? 16:51, 3 June 2013 (EDT)
 * There actually is a collab thread for this issue, it's just dead - but you can bump it if you want, I suppose. Whatever you feel is best: it's your proposal, after all. -

Uh... Is it too late to withdraw my proposal? I should have done it yesterday but I couldn't. —
 * It has already passed.

No you's, no I's
USE CURRENT WORDING 1-6

Ok, here goes. Yesterday I came upon a little something not-so-pleasent. So, I deleted it and said it happened on that article's talk page. It was Super Mario 64 DS glitches Chill Bully Suicide. That certain glitch has a template that warns people about corrupting or permanantly damaging their system. Now for the bad part. I found the words "I MEAN IT" exactly like that at the end of the section. My point is, we should change the "no you's" rule and add "no I's". This makes sense as to that people who do that break a writing rule and are (maybe, depending how much they do it) blocked.

Proposer: Deadline: June 5, 2013, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) It's my proposal, and I agree with it.
 * 2)  We should add this new rule here.

Oppose

 * 1) Whilst I agree, most people do this anyway and it'd only be new users or IPs who wouldn't know what they were doing and would only need a friendly nudge in the right direction.
 * 2) The policy applies to second person, which includes the use of "I".
 * 3) Per YoshiKong. This proposal is completely redundant.
 * 4) Per all.
 * 5) Per all.
 * 6) - Per all, including Baby Luigi's comments below.

Comments
This proposal is unnecessary because it's already our policy; that proposal wouldn't change anything :/ —

Using any second person word not only violates the "No You" rule because it applies to first person as well, but also are completely nonstandard and unprofessional, thus violating another universal rule about standard writing, which this wiki definitely uses. This proposal is not necessary in any way since there will not be any change regardless of which side gets more votes.

I did not know that Baby Luigi...
 * Well, this is an FYI thing, so yeah.

Remove all unsourced information from glitches and beta elements pages
KEEP UNSOURCED INFORMATION 7-17

This was first discussed here.

It is extremely easy to put a glitch or a beta element on it's corresponding page without providing any proof. Therefore, I am suggesting that we remove all unsorced information from these pages, though they can be brought back if someone gives actual proof about these (an image, a source from a reliable external site, or a YouTube video is enough), because these "glitches" or "beta elements" can just be a random user typing random things.

Proposer: Deadline: June 8, 2013, 23:59 GMT

Remove unsourced information

 * 1) Per proposal.
 * 2) Per proposal, but I also want to add that sourcing the glitch from an external, but reliable site will suffice as well.
 * 3) Per proposal.
 * 4) I've seen extremely absurd glitches (such as ), which could provide false information. Having to provide a reliable reference will ensure that the glitch is real. Per proposal.
 * 5) Per all.
 * 6) Per all, we don't need stuff like "There was gonna be a portrait ghost who was removed in the final product because he would have had frightening dialogue" that isn't sourced
 * 7) Per all.

Keep unsourced information

 * 1) I agree that some glitches are ridiculous, however sometimes contributors add a real glitch but can't provide a source. If we got rid of all the unsourced glitches, we would lose these glitches.
 * 2) Yes, well some glitches are completly bogus, there is a very small amount of bogus glitches in pages. Also, I have tested unsourced glitches that work, making no sense to remove all unsourced glitches. If I can, I would help to get a reference for them.
 * 3) – I believe that removing unsourced glitches would mean that their would be less than half left over. Not all unsourced glitches are bogus: instead of removing potentially legitimate information, we should add a request for reference tag. I strongly disagree with this proposal.
 * 4) - Much better than outright than removing them.
 * 5) Per Tucayo's comments below
 * 6) Per All
 * 7) This seems like a very extreme way to go about this. Per all.
 * 8) - Per all.
 * 9) - Per all: removing them is shooting first and asking questions later. It's always best to avoid scrapping potentially good info, and until we find the desired proof, we can just use  to let readers know that stuff's unverified.
 * 10) &mdash; Actually, Tucayo does have a good point, so per him.
 * 11) Per all
 * 12) Per all.
 * 13) Per Walkazo.
 * 14) When I think about this, this would remove a crapload of info here. Per all.
 * 15) Some glitches occur very rarely and the cause for them is unknown. One time, in Super Smash Bros. Melee, some CPU opponents grabbed a warp star, got hit, and was walking around with a warp star on his feet (if you check the beginning animation of grabbing the warp star, the character is standing on the warp star before ducking; it's probably a glitch involving that frame). This glitch, I don't know how that happened, and naturally, I had no video capturing device. This glitch never happened again, but it seems plausible to happen. The point it, some glitches are difficult to verify, and I don't see why anyone would make a mock glitch anyway. Maybe a "Get 100 lives" glitch that ends up crashing the game and damaging the disc? Even then, people can verify those bad ones or at least warn about it. Per all.
 * 16) Per Walkazo and LeftyGreenMario.
 * 17) What if all the glitches are gone? I won't know how to do them if they're not on this wiki.

Comments
@Baby Luigi; I added your suggestion to the proposal.

Actually, how about requiring a reference for every glitch?
 * Isn't removing unsourced material basically already covering that?
 * I can't imagine all those unconfirmed sources to be thrown away at all. Some of the glitches may have legitimate results if inputted correctly. I suggest creating a group that dedicated to: confirming the glitches by providing references found on the internet, or reproducing them on their on and making references of their own. Of course, it'll be tedious for everyone involved because it requires someone to play the game in it's original fashion, and that the former is probably more easier to do than the latter in terms of time commitment. 22:28, 1 June 2013 (EDT)
 * @RAP, some people may need help from a youtube video or image and couldn't understand the inputted text without it, or the image/video could be used as proof to the glitch. I don't think we need a group based on glitches.
 * This is just like confirming elements for an upcoming game: you can't prove it exists without a reliable source, and too many of these entries are questionable. It's like saying I work for Nintendo.
 * I forgot to insert that I would prefer implementing a group dedicating to this task if this proposal passes. So far the majority of the tally votes oppose this proposal.

I'm really torn about this. I do feel we have to remove unsourced content, but I feel it would be far better to add a template similar to the one the Fallout Wikia uses on unverified glitches/bugs. It's simple; when a bug hasn't got a source, they add the template, indicating a four week period in which a source for the bug should be mentioned. If the four weeks pass and no source was indicated, the template will indicate the verification is overdue. I feel that's a good compromise, as we wouldn't be outright deleting stuff that could be valid, but we wouldn't be keeping unsourced glitches. --


 * If this passes, I'm going to try my very best to overturn it. The proposed action really isn't the right way to go. -- 09:49, 3 June 2013 (EDT)


 * Or a template like the Wikipedia one? 16:48, 3 June 2013 (EDT)

I agree with YoshiKong, this proposal is outrageous, it makes no sense, no one here seems to me that adds fake glitch has never happened and never will happen to me, even if there was a low probability to happen it would not be a drama I think it's that easy to recognize a true glitch a glitch invented on the spot, and then there are numerous glitch without sources, but that can be easily found on youtube. --Sonic98 16:54, 3 June 2013 (EDT)


 * @Banon: We already have such a template: . -

Intro standards for subpages
IMPLEMENT INTRO STANDARD 14-0

This has been discussed here and here.

First of all, when I say "subpages", I mean pages that were previously subpages, and current subpages. This includes the glitches, media, quotes, staff, beta elements pages, as well as galleries.

So basically this proposal is "let's have a standard for subpages intros!". Why?

There are so many variations in how the intro is worded: a standard write-up would be great. — YoshiKong

I would also like to add a clarification:

''It's still a good idea to have a slug line up there, rather than leaving the top of the page blank.

''Consistency is good, but the intro could be changed up a little for different types of galleries - to provide a little variety.

''Like "This is a gallery of images pertaining to the game ." (which could, when applicable, be followed by "For a gallery of images pertaining to the remake,, see .") for games, and then substitude "show"/"movie"/whatever if it's part of another media. Then "This is a gallery of images featuring (the) X(s)." for specific subjects (characters/species/items/forms/gaming systems). Specialized subjects may also need specialized intros to work (i.e. "This is a gallery of the images from Rosalina's Storybook, featured in Super Mario Galaxy.").'' — Walkazo

Proposer: Deadline: June 8, 2013, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) This is my proposal.
 * 2) – Per Banon.
 * 3) &mdash; Per proposal.
 * 4) Per Banon.
 * 5) Per proposal
 * 6) Per Banon.
 * 7) Per all.
 * 8) Per all.
 * 9) Per all.
 * 10) Per all.
 * 11) Per all.
 * 12) - Per me, per proposal.
 * 13) I would like it if all we had was a simple link like this in the top of the gallery, much as in Featured Articles: <(name of the article). It would avoid redundancy and pointing out the obvious in the gallery descriptions. Of course, exceptions apply, including Rosalina's Storybook. If we can't do this, then the standard gallery descriptions will suffice.
 * 14) I am definitely for this; for the most part we should aim for consistency in subpages, including what's mentioned here.

Comments
Just to be clear, are you proposing we have something along the lines of Walkazo's example or something else entirely?
 * I think the Walkazo's example is great. —

So are we going to create templates for intros of each type of page, or do users have to write it themselves?
 * Unless we can get the templates to cover every potential difference in wording for a type of page, manual write-ups would probably be easier. -
 * We could have a template working like this: if we write it would display: This is a gallery of images pertaining to the game Super Mario 64. For a gallery of images pertaining to the remake, Super Mario 64 DS, see here. Is that possible? Also, I'd like to change one thing about Walkazo's examples: "remake" → "reissue" (wider meaning including remake, ports, re-releases...)


 * No, don't muddle things up with gratuitous templates. Just write it out. As for what term to use, rather than using a catch-all, just use whichever term is appropriate; usually, that'll be "remake", but if the other gallery is for a port, say "port", etc. Just like how you'd say "show" or "movie" or whatever instead of "game" when the situation calls for it for the appearance-based galleries. -


 * You're right, that would cause too much trouble. I thought that if we write it ourselves people wouldn't know about the standard but, nah.