Talk:Princess Peach

Is Peach Toadstool her full name, or are we assuming that?
First off, originally Peach and Toadstool were both different names used by the different regions. This is a fact, and it's probably the simplest explanation. Then, in the original Japanese Super Mario 64, she... signed her name as Piichi-hime. That's right, since there was no voice acting in the original version, she just flatly signed it as Princess Peach. In the Japanese version, there also wasn't a pink "Peach" mark - it was all text.

Then, the American release. They added a Peach mark in the letter, also having her sign it "Princess Toadstool." However, the new voice acting has her read it as "Yours truly, Princess Toadstool... Peach". Now, many, many, MANY fans have taken this the wrong way. At first, they thought Peach referred to the choice of cake. When the next game came around, it was Peach, so then we assumed that it was read "Princess Toadstool, Peach", despite the pause.

So, what is it? Well, when addressing royalty, you ALWAYS use their first name after their title, so Princess Toadstool, Peach wouldn't make sense from what I gather. Neither would Princess Toadstool Peach, since the pause would indicate that wouldn't be her last name anyway, plus its improper with the other games of the series. Now, Princess Toadstool: Peach MIGHT work, using Toadstool as her real name and Peach as a nickname, but why would she go to foreign affairs (ala Beanbean Kingdom) as Peach? The conclusion I'm drawing is that she's really reading it as Princess "Toadstool" Peach.

Now, the Shindou release of the game (as well as Japanese Super Mario 64 DS) includes a voice over as well, but the text is exactly the same as the original Japanese release. That's right, in Japan, it's not an issue - she still signs it as Princess Peach. They've ignored the English speaking role much like when Super Mario Sunshine's announced Dolphic Island as "Isle Delfino" (which we use). In Japan, it's treated as a "side name" if that makes sense. In Super Mario USA, the manual used both the American names from SMB2 AND the Japanese ones mostly from DDP. So in Japan, both names were used, but the Japanese one is the "real and proper" one.

Seeing as all we're doing is relying on a voiceover that even the Japanese didn't take seriously and there are otherwise no official sources whatsoever to say this is her full name (a SM64 interview would be preferable, but I don't think it exists), I'd say we should ignore that off Toadstool line and state her full name is Princess Peach. It's not like full names were ever an issue in the Mario series anyway. The only purpose of that line was that Nintendo of America knew it would be a big game and this was their chance to switch the name back to the original one with little effort by using both. It just one time (Japan had it twice and they still don't care). LinkTheLefty 16:51, 21 October 2009 (EDT)
 * I don't think Nintendo is ever going to solve this mystery. No, we don't really know what her real name is, but because it's just a video game, I also don't think we should really insist on "real names". Just use "Peach" in the article, except for sections about games which explicitely said "Toadstool". - 17:05, 21 October 2009 (EDT)
 * SMW's instruction booklet says its "Princess Toadstool" I personally think its another inconsistency of Nintendo. -- 17:09, 21 October 2009 (EDT)
 * I think that Nintendo didn't put more than five minutes of thought into that whole issue and just threw it at us fans to see how we deal with all the chaos. They do this kind of thoughtless stuff often enough. - 17:14, 21 October 2009 (EDT)


 * I'm pretty sure Toadstool is mentioned in SMRPG.-- 00:16, 22 October 2009 (EDT)
 * It's not only mentioned, she's called that the whole time in that game, but I think this is not what he's trying to argue. I think he is trying to say that he doubts that Peach's full name is "Princess Peach Toadstool", but that she's either "Princess Peach" or "Princess Toadstool" sepparate. Though I might be mistaken with my interpretion of his text... - 00:22, 22 October 2009 (EDT)


 * Well, let's keep in mind the history of "Peach" herself -- when she had her debut, she was first known as Princess Toadstool -- only that when the N64 installments came around, the name Peach became widely popular. The connections are still there, hence the full name of "Princess Peach Toadstool". Hope that solves everything. :P --M. C. - "Mario Gals" Fan! User Page | Talk Page 01:40, 22 October 2009 (EDT)


 * I guess no one read my in-depth look at the different versions of the letter in Super Mario 64? My point is, Toadstool is horrifically outdated and was never the "original" name to begin with, just a false one only for the English audience. Nintendo has never officially stated anything on the matter. So the fans are assuming that it's her full name when that was never confirmed. I'm just saying that Toadstool is more of a nickname than anything. After all, Sega did a similar thing with Dr. Robotnik at the time with Sonic Adventure, but they didn't call him Eggman Robotnik. They established that Eggman was his alias and Robotnik is his real name, true in all regions to this day. LinkTheLefty 14:05, 22 October 2009 (EDT)
 * Neither has Peach been referred to as "Peach Toadstool" nor has Bowser been ever called "Bowser Koopa" in the games. Both "full names", merging English and Japanese names, are names assumed by fans, the first one because of the letter in SM64(DS), while the latter name has its only basis in the old American cartoons and comics. Likewise, "Mario Mario" and "Luigi Mario" from the life-action movie also never made it into the games. @LinkTheLefty: Sega's Sonic series doesn't seem to be as name change heavy as the Mario series, so that's not surprising. But seeing in contrast to this that even the more recent Mario character Rosalina (Rosetta) comes with five different names around the world, the Peach/Toadstool name change was a major exception. And you see names made up for the English and other foreign audiences (such as Toad, Goomba, Koopa Troopa and the likes) generally as false? Of course, I fully understand preferring the names from the original works. --Grandy02 13:58, 23 October 2009 (EDT)
 * I'm not necessarily promoting the Japanese names over the localized ones, but I'm all for preserving creator intent, and I've laid out that creator intent says that she does not have more than one name. Besides, what this amounts to is basically a fan-name, which is a big no-no if you're trying to remain factual. LinkTheLefty 17:39, 26 October 2009 (EDT)
 * I'm also saying that all we really have is a piece of voice acting that paused anyway, which usually indicates a nickname more than anything. Besides... I've emailed Nintendo.

Hi guys. First of all, great work doing what you do. That goes to every branch of Nintendo. Here's my question - what is the name of the princess in the Super Mario games? No, I'm serious - I know the older games call her Toadstool, but the newer ones call her Peach. I played Super Mario 64 the other day, and it used both! So what's her real name? I'm a little confused.

Oh, and could you clear up the name of the big turtle guy as well? I'm pretty sure he used to be King Koopa, now it's Bowser. I know it's a silly question that probably has an easy answer, but I'm just wondering what happened here. Thanks.


 * Hello,


 * Thank you for your interest in our Mario games. We try to use e-mail primarily to gather feedback about our products and services. We also provide brief answers to critical questions or try to let our fans know where they can find the answers they're looking for on our web site. Unfortunately, we're not equipped to track down the official response you would like to your question. However, we do appreciate your enthusiasm and curiosity.


 * Sincerely,


 * [Withheld]


 * P.S. Tell us how we're doing! Our customer satisfaction survey takes only quarkleblagralphla


 * Yeah... I guess in the meantime I concede that both are official, but I'd still like to know why we think of her as Peach Toadstool rather than Toadstool Peach or "Toadstool" Peach or Toadstool "Peach" when there's nothing else to go by. LinkTheLefty 23:34, 13 November 2009 (EST)

Use Pic 1
Place votes for first picture here

Use Pic 2
Place votes for second picture here


 * 1) FD09 – always good to keep with most recent artworks, see comments below for tasty info.
 * 2) MeritC I'm beginning to get second thoughts on this; however, since I'm one of the sysops, see comments below should this pic "win", per se.
 * 3) YoshiDaisyfan1 It's better because she looks happy. :)
 * 4) User: Cberiault I like pic 2 much better!

Comments
Okay, so we have two great Peach pictures here. I will admit if pic 2 wins we will have to crop out some white space due to size technicalities when used in character infobox, but this is a common practice.

In-depth talk here: Picture 2 really represents Mario series style at it's cleanest. No extra photoshoppy details added. Makes her look really clean and matches the real Mario Bros style. Picture one is a good representation of Peach too, but it does follow the character art style that you see where details are added through later processes away from natural model details. It's nice but very overdone. FD09


 * Well, since I'm one of the sysops, I've been getting notes which are giving me some second thoughts on this. Here's what I can do -- when release week hits for New Super Mario Bros. Wii, we can change the picture since I do agree that this is the best art to date in regards to Peach. Does anyone object to this? --M. C. - "Mario Gals" Fan! User Page | Talk Page 01:55, 30 October 2009 (EDT)

Yet another heads-up from me as a sysop -- if we ARE to use the NSMB Wii art of Peach for this article, we need to reupload it from the source where Arend got said picture from (which had the said art BEFORE the Japan scans surfaced earlier this month) -- but saved it as a .PNG. Upon closer inspection, it took away some of the quality. --M. C. - "Mario Gals" Fan! User Page | Talk Page 02:22, 30 October 2009 (EDT)
 * 1) ghj

Necessary?
Why is it considered necessary for the captions about her outfits in Kart and Winter to be there for the sections? It isn't considering that's what the sections are for. Either remove it from the section or remove it from the caption, right? FD09


 * It doesn't hurt to be "comprehensive" about it in the caption. Hence why I restored them. Second, for those who don't have time to read the whole thing about her outfits, the caption itself should put it all together. And now I have to go restore them... again... >_> Still makes the article better. ^_^ --M. C. - "Mario Gals" Fan! User Page | Talk Page 21:22, 3 November 2009 (EST)

Locked Article

 * I'm curious as to why I can't edit this article. I can understand protecting this article from newer members, but I've been here for more than a year. I'm stating this, because I'm finding it strange that I can edit certain locked articles such as the New Super Mario Bros. Wii article, but not Peach's article.  19:05, 7 November 2009 (EST)


 * The current status on this article is that only sysops are able to edit it until the expiry time hits. I locked this late last week because a certain recently banned user kept making inappropriate/offensive edits on it. I'm planning on changing it to semi-protected once release week for NSMB Wii hits; there are some changes that need to be done (including adding said section about her involvement in NSMB Wii, plus changing Peach's artwork in the infobox to the NSMB Wii solo picture of her). --M. C. - "Mario Gals" Fan! User Page | Talk Page 19:19, 7 November 2009 (EST)


 * Well thanks for explaining the dilemma. I was hoping to make a few improvements to some templates, but I guess I'll have to wait until I have the ability to edit this article again; I can't edit templates if they're used in articles that I can't edit.  19:33, 7 November 2009 (EST)
 * If you can't edit templates that are included in the page, notify a sysop. That's called "cascading protection" and it can be easily turned off while still protecting the article itself. - 15:10, 8 November 2009 (EST)
 * Really? I'll investigate this further to see if I can turn this cascading protection off in this case. But the protection status for this article still stands -- until at least when we hit release week for NSMB Wii (as said above -- to maybe change it to semi-protection status). --M. C. - "Mario Gals" Fan! User Page | Talk Page 16:14, 8 November 2009 (EST)
 * I was hoping to improve the template,  , by adding a category called Winter Games Rivals. However, I can't edit that template, because it's being used in a locked article, which is Peach's article.  16:09, 8 November 2009 (EST)


 * By the way, Peach's article is lacking the template,  .  I would add it if I could, but since I can't edit the article right now, only a Sysop can perform that task.  16:09, 8 November 2009 (EST)
 * Tell me which categories you were trying to add and/or templates on my talk page, and I'll add them later this evening. --M. C. - "Mario Gals" Fan! User Page | Talk Page 16:14, 8 November 2009 (EST)

Shoot, I was checking the protected status of the Talk Page, not the article itself. Cascading protection is not active right now though, so we might have a bug in the system. - 16:57, 8 November 2009 (EST)
 * I just took the cascading protection off on the main article itself; the primary protection status for the article still stands, however. --M. C. - "Mario Gals" Fan! User Page | Talk Page 17:09, 8 November 2009 (EST)
 * Thanks for removing the template protection for me. The template has been updated with the additions that I've stated now.  17:12, 8 November 2009 (EST)

Birdo
It says that she and Birdo have bad chemistry in MSS.

Is this true, because I think it is false.


 * I took said info out just now; I seriously don't understand why it was put there in the first place. >_> --M. C. - "Mario Gals" Fan! User Page | Talk Page 17:30, 10 November 2009 (EST)

It was probably on there because... guess what? It's true. FD09
 * Rather than argue, someone needs to get either video or image of said statements. If it's true, put it under Interactions, if it's false, then it still shouldn't be under the initial opening because I don't believe they're exactly friends. Same with Toadette. They're friendly acquaintances, if anything. Redstar 02:48, 27 November 2009 (EST)

Protection Status Update
Specifically for the Princess Peach supporters who have been editing this article, I've "downgraded" the protection status to the level in which folks who create new accounts aren't able to edit this article immediately. It'll go back to "all access" (normal editing for all levels) come December 1st, 2009. The coast should be clear by then since the person who vandalized this article with unacceptable content a few weeks back wouldn't bother coming back here to wreck it any further anyway (besides, he was already permabanned). Also, the solo picture of Peach for New Super Mario Bros. Wii is now used for the infobox at the top of the article itself, as I promised I'd deal with a few weeks ago. :) This is NOT to be changed until further notice. --M. C. - "Mario Gals" Fan! User Page | Talk Page 03:34, 12 November 2009 (EST)

Article Decrease
As a note, please be aware I'm currently re-writing and cleaning up this page as I did with the Bowser page. What I hope to accomplish is to cut down on bad writing and redundant wording, so don't worry about removal of legitimate info. If you want to question any of my edits (I go section by section), please feel free to bring it up here first. Thanks. Redstar


 * No problem so far, Redstar; I've checked the edit history. We'd mainly go after folks that attempt to vandalize the page with offensive content. This is one of the articles that I monitor personally (as well as any other articles involving the Mario females). --M. C. - "Mario Gals" Fan! User Page | Talk Page 02:06, 27 November 2009 (EST)
 * The article is good, but I've noticed issues of bad writing on many of the pages. An encyclopedia article should be concise and clean, so I'm working to chop down the writing to be much more clear as well as offer to-the-point information. With paragraph-formatting, it should overall read much easier on the eyes. Hopefully it amounts to a much better article. Redstar 02:53, 27 November 2009 (EST)
 * Yeah, I noticed that FD09 was doing some major cleanup again as well -- which this time around, I can't "overrule". Am I now to conclude that this article had some MAJOR problems that had to be dealt with...? And second, something tells me that there were some character article consistency problems too...? I'm seriously drawing a blank here, and even as a sysop, I'm really confused... o_O --M. C. - "Mario Gals" Fan! User Page | Talk Page 20:28, 27 November 2009 (EST)
 * I don't feel there are any "major" problems with this article, it's just that it's very badly written. Most articles seem to focus on the information therein rather than how it's presented, so I'm just balancing the two to make a more professional-looking and easily-read encyclopedia article. I wouldn't mind help at all, and especially input from ForeverDaisy. Redstar 21:41, 27 November 2009 (EST)


 * I'm really liking your re-arranging of paragraphs, FD09. They really make for a much better-transitioning read. Redstar 00:27, 29 November 2009 (EST)

Interactions
First off somebody pulled the interactions section out of abc order without removing the fact it still said abc order? lol The other area of the interactions sections is pretty crummy looking. Not only is it not well written but it's not even going over anything mentionable. Somebody can add it back again if they can show there's reason to place it on her page within good quality. Also to go along with this, the top part of the page was once again changed because like agreed on Toadette's interactions with Peach are nothing to shine about and Birdo's are clearly not good to begin with. You can go over both of these characters in their interactions sections. FD09
 * I'll look into re-working the Interactions section in a better-written fashion once I get down there. Redstar 21:39, 27 November 2009 (EST)

Some Changes and Removals
Some things I changed and why. First of rewrote her physical description and moved around some stuff in a fitting manner to say Daisy and Rosalina's pages. Why doesn't she need an image of her appearance in her appearance description? Because not only is there an image of what she looks like as described at the top of the page, there are images of what she looks like all over the page. So why do we need an image of her current appearance in her appearance description if that's the point of her having an image at the top of the page.

Next someone tried to add back her hair information to her description even though it's already in her development section which is where it belongs because it's not about what her hair looks like now, it's about the changes and such about her hair color's depiction over time.

Also, why would we need to give examples of what games she has her ponytail in including the first game she had it in when it is so common now listing all the games she ha sit in is completely unneeded when you can just say certain spin-offs and anyone who cares to know in the first place probably knows she has a ponytail in most sports games nowadays.

Lastly, why would we place a list of nicknames in a section of the development of her name from Toadstool to Peach when nicknames are not the same thing as being referred to specifically as something for years at a time and having it change. They are unimportant names miscellaneous characters have called her in miscellaneous games which all probably have mention of the fact she was called these things at some point in their own descriptions likely on this page already above. Thank you. ForeverDaisy09 04:29, 16 July 2010 (UTC)