Talk:Spiny Shell (red)

There is no spiny shell in TTYD
Is that picture fanmade or beta? because im pretty sure theres no spiny shells in paper mario.

There is, I believe one of the Spinies attacks a like the Koopas where they go in their shell. I will have to check that out.

They were used in SPM but the sprite was under PM:TTYD. I'd just leave it alone.

Move to and move Spiny Shell (Mario Kart) to this title
As requested by proposer.

Well, where do I start? First of all, the Mario Kart Spiny Shells unambiguously appear in more games and are officially referred to as such in practically all of the games it appears in. Second, these shells only unambiguously appear (not just as protection for Spinies) as items in both Mario Strikers games, and as obstacles in the minigames Ice Rink Risk and Crate and Peril. That's it. That said, given this precedent, I propose that we switch the page that gets the identifuer, as described in the header.

Proposer: Proposed Deadline: November 27, 2017, 23:59 GMT Date Withdrawn: November 20, 2017, 08:16 GMT

Support

 * 1) Per proposal.
 * 2) Per proposal. It is also in Super Mario Maker, but that's not going to help oppose it.
 * 3) Per proposal and per all. I thought about this the first time I went up onto the Spiny Shell (Mario Kart) page. It is the definitive Spiny Shell, and I think it deserves to be in the main bluelight (See what I did there? :)).
 * 4) Make MUCH MORE SENSE

Oppose

 * 1) - The Spiny's shell appears more frequently and have been around longer. Because of it being a part of the Spiny enemy, it makes more sense to leave it as is. The Mario Kart Spiny Shell seems to go by two names, both of which are used by a different item (Spiny Shell and Blue Shell). I believe the (Mario Kart) identifier would be best as the Spiked Blue Shell has mainly appeared in Mario Kart whereas the other shells have been in multiple games.
 * 2) Per Alex, and also the fact that this is from the "main" series.
 * 3) While the Mario Kart Spiny Shell may be more well known than the regular Spiny Shell, it's a variant of it, whereas the latter is about a Spiny's shell in general, hence the lack of an identifier. I also don't think "(Spiny)" is a suitable identifier at all, since it can also refer to the Mario Kart Spiny Shell, also from a Spiny.
 * 4) Per all
 * 5) Per Mario jc.
 * 6) - Per all, and Mario jc's and my comments.
 * 7) Yes, my first oppose vote ever.  While I do think that this page should be renamed, not like this.  I think instead that we move this to  and the other one to .  We change this to a disambiguation page.  If we agree to do this, I'll change my vote.

Comments
@Alex95: "The Spiny's shell appears more frequently" – Yes, it does, but with a very generic purpose that, for the most part, can quite easily be covered on the Spiny article. It only unambiguously appears as a standalone object in four games–five if you count Mario Party: The Top 100–none of which are major appearances. The blue Spiny Shell, on the other hand, has appeared in ten games–twelve if you count the SSB4 cross-ports as separate games and if you count Mario Kart 8 Deluxe (plus a small reference in Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle)–and has a more clear-cut, definitive purpose: attacking the "leader". Remember that there is a difference between "generic" and "appears in many games, therefore precedence". 15:24, 13 November 2017 (EST)
 * They may have a similar purpose as the Green Shell in the main Super Mario games, but their appearance and attributes differ. You can't jump on them, and you can't pick them up in games with that function. Because of this and the shell's relation to its frequent wearer (Have you seen a Blue Para-Spiny?), it should remain. The Blue Spiked Shell is mainly a Mario Kart item, with some exceptions, whereas the Spiny's shell is more versatile and appears in several games. 15:35, 13 November 2017 (EST)
 * The Mario Kart one is also definitively not from a Spiny ever since Double Dash, given it has the hexagonal plates that Troopa shells use. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 16:30, 13 November 2017 (EST)
 * @Doc:The Mario Strikers series Spiny Shells actually do use a hex pattern. Maybe they should be split? 17:24, 13 November 2017 (EST)
 * I don't know, they seem to in the original Ice Rink Risk as well, but only in-game and not official art... Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 19:35, 13 November 2017 (EST)

I don't think "Spiny Shell (Spiny)" is a good classifier for this, as, unlike the "Bowser" in "Special Attack (Bowser)", "Spiny" has multiple meanings in this context (the enemy or the property of the shell) whereas "Bowser" can only refer to one thing. 20:21, 14 November 2017 (EST)

Wait, if you admit down here that the Spiny's shell appears more frequently, you outright lied in the proposal itself with that whole "unambiguously" thing. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 20:42, 14 November 2017 (EST)

@Mario jc: "The Mario Kart Spiny Shell comes from a Spiny" is NOT true at all. Just saying. (We seriously need a pageview gadget.) 06:48, 15 November 2017 (EST)
 * There is a "Show preview" button. 11:40, 15 November 2017 (EST)
 * Then explain how it's NOT true, please. It's clearly in the name and appearance. If you're saying the Mario Kart Spiny Shell is just a blue Koopa shell with spikes added to it, and the "Spiny" in its name refers to its property and not the enemy, its Japanese name incorporates the Spiny enemy's Japanese name (トゲゾーこうら Togezō Kōra). It'd be too big of a coincidence for them to give a shell spikes, make it look like a Spiny's shell, call it a "Spiny Shell", and not intend it to be related to a Spiny. 00:03, 16 November 2017 (EST)
 * Also, prior to Double Dash!!, the shell lacked the hexagon pattern, unlike the other shells, which had a yellow hexagon pattern. Why they changed it for Double Dash!!, I have no idea, but it may have been for frugality to repeatedly edit the same shell base some more, or it may have been another example Gamecube/GBA-era design weirdness that never really got resolved other than the wings disappearing (in appearance but not function). Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:22, 16 November 2017 (EST)

I am not sure what I am going to do about my vote (even though it's already there, but I am questioning whether or not due to Alex95's vote). However, when I voted, I wasn't sure Spiny was a good identifier. 17:05, 17 November 2017 (EST)

@Astro-Lanceur: Yep, I'm your new grammar professor. Spell "sense" correctly. - 17:55, 17 November 2017 (EST)

@YoshiFlutterJump: Wow, I never thought of it that way. I'd like to cancel this proposal now. 23:25, 19 November 2017 (EST)
 * Okay, but I think you'll need to talk to an administrator to cancel it now. - 23:58, 19 November 2017 (EST)

Move to and move Spiny Shell (Mario Kart) to
Per my vote in the above proposal. This title should become a disambiguation page, the content should be moved to, and should be moved to. Support: Deadline: December 6, 2017, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) Per my proposal and my vote in the above proposal.  I'm pretty sure these subjects are equally popular, hence this should be a disambiguation page.
 * 2) Per proposal. As I have argued before, both are equally popular, and the red Spiny Shells have less standalone appearances than the blue ones. Plus, we already have precedents.
 * 3) Per Toadette the Achiever.

Oppose

 * 1) Pretty sure the red one has more standalone appearances, and the blue is clearly derivative of the red, ergo the red is the "main" version. Per previous opposition.