Talk:Big Kyutyan

Rapheal the Raven?
It looks like Rapheal, the same size. REALLY! 98.177.160.223 19:46, 11 April 2014 (EDT)

Should it be merge?

Name
For reference, the Shogakukan guide does not give this enemy a unique name from normal Ravens, even when it's highlighted in World 5-7 on page 233. However, the game has a handful of internal filenames in G:content0.game/romfs/param/enemy - namely kyutyan_a_big.csv, kyutyan_b_big.csv, kyutyan_c_big.csv & kyutyan_s_big.csv - that suggest the name "Big Kyūchan". LinkTheLefty (talk) 08:33, 24 December 2017 (EST)
 * That sounds familiar... Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 04:11, 25 December 2017 (EST)
 * Given there's only one, the internal name matches Raphael's Japanese name, there are other boss-like minor unique enemies, and the fact that in Japanese, these are less "characters" and more "generic members of the species that have been magically enlarged," I wouldn't be too opposed to merging this with Raphael's article. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 17:48, 8 February 2018 (EST)
 * Maybe it was described on the generic Raven's description on the manual? I asked to LinkTheLefty. 13:47, 1 September 2018 (EDT)
 * Accordingly, it doesn't describe the Giant Raven at all. LinkTheLefty told me that it didn't describe it... -- 07:43, 3 September 2018 (EDT)
 * This one acts just like a non-altered raven. It pops when you step on it. Then maybe on Raven page? -- 11:27, 26 September 2018 (EDT)
 * It may be a coincidence, Nintendo didn't intend this Raven to be Raphael. -- 06:33, 30 September 2018 (EDT)
 * You may start a proposal to give my opinion. -- 12:18, 1 October 2018 (EDT)

Merge Giant Raven with Raphael the Raven
I don't think that they're intended to be the same thing, and seem to be just coincidental.

Proposer: Deadline: November, 5, 2018, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) There is only one of them in the game, internal data contains evidence of Raphael the Raven's Japanese name, and merging mitigates the use of conjecture tag. Considering it's a direct sequel, I'm sure the reference is intended.
 * 2) Literally the only information we have indicates that they're the same. Besides, as I've noted before, in Japan, the bosses aren't characters, just random schlubs Kamek embiggerationalizes. I'd have supported the second this proposal was made had I known. File name, the fact that there's one, other enemy "bosses" existing....

Oppose

 * 1) Per.
 * 2) Clearly different enough to warrant separate articles. You sure you want to start a proposal that you oppose? There are still big enough differences, such as how Raphael can't be defeated with eggs or direct ground pounds, unlike this Raven, or how Raphael also creates star-shaped shockwaves, something also not present in this Raven.
 * 3) Per all.

Comments
If anything else, why should we merge them? It appears to be a coincidence, and it deserves it own article. -- 07:05, 24 October 2018 (EDT)
 * @Toadette, yes, sometimes the proposer is opposed.-- 08:05, 24 October 2018 (EDT)
 * @Link, for you, they're both big, and i still consider bosses as characters. The Giant Raven walks like a normal Raven, while Raphael walks much more agressively and he bounces you. And the Giant Raven seems to be already big. -- 08:23, 24 October 2018 (EDT)
 * Boss-to-enemy having different behavior? So what? Behaviors aren't always consistent, even for within the Yoshi franchise. And your other reason requires usage of the word "seem." How about the fact that the file name literally spells out that it's Big Kyutan? Remember, Raph ain't a character in JP YI. And through this spelling out, shows that without a shadow of a doubt it cannot be "coincidence." Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 20:29, 24 October 2018 (EDT)
 * So what so what? All of the enemies you mentioned in your vote aren't even considered bosses; only the enemies faced at the ends of forts and castles are considered bosses. I don't doubt that the resemblance isn't a coincidence, but as it stands, it appears to just be a resemblance and not Raphael himself. The internal filename is a start, but is there any more evidence that can be used to determine that this Raven is indeed Raphael? 20:35, 24 October 2018 (EDT)
 * Both Big Boo and Wiggler have been bosses in various platform games with vastly different behaviors on all accounts, hence why I linked to only them in that statement o.o . The following statement is to show that using "within series" as justificaltion regarding behavior differences won't work either. And once again, "Raphael" is a Woolseyism; it's just a big Raven. Not an individual outside of Paper Mario. Just like how Prince Froggy isn't given a slightest hint of differentiation from Frog Pirate in Japanese. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 20:42, 24 October 2018 (EDT)
 * Raphael is treated as an individual in the games he appears in. Also, under this, you're essentially saying that Frog Pirate should be merged with Prince Froggy. See where I'm going with this? 20:52, 24 October 2018 (EDT)
 * Puttin' words in my mouth, there. When given various roles in the same game, differing articles they do indeed receive. This does not extend to differing roles in different games. And the file name is actual evidence from the game itself. And there's no substantial evidence on the contrary other than "well, I don't think so, because..." See what I'm getting at? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 20:55, 24 October 2018 (EDT)