MarioWiki:Proposals

Writing guidelines
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New features
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Removals
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Changes
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definitions of undead and deceased
As there is no clear definition so far, despite trying on Category:Deceased Characters from when someone will be listed under the categories Deceased Characters or Undead if he dies during or at the end of the game

That is why I suggest that the rules in the table on Talk:Bob-omb (Paper Mario: The Origami King) apply the rules

Proposer: Deadline: August 6, 2020, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) Per proposal
 * 2) Per proposal and my comments on Bobby's talk page. The handling of these categories is a mess right now and I think this is the best way to handle them.
 * 3) Yeah, I'm on board with this change.
 * 4) I suppose it will make handling these categories a little bit easier.
 * 5) Per all.
 * 6) Per proposal.
 * 7) I think we should restrict it to characters that have died or their identity is tied to more to being dead than alive (so we include Wrinkly Kong, who is alive in on egame but turned into a ghost and remained that way for the rest of the games).
 * 8) Per proposal, it feels like giving these an actual definition will make handling the categories easier and help prevent confusion.
 * 9) Per all.
 * 10) Per all

Comments

 * Clarification; I would be the final state as a time of definition (ie post credits) otherwise, for example, all residents of Sammer's Kingdom would have to be declared "dead" Pokemon (talk) 11:17, July 30, 2020 (EDT)
 * Yeah, obviously characters that are eventually brought back to life shouldn't be classified as dead. -- 12:02, July 30, 2020 (EDT)
 * For this reason Olly and Olivia should be listed under died Pokemon (talk) 12:16, July 30, 2020 (EDT)

I'm still a bit iffy, but I guess I'm just stuck on what I already know the category to be used for. I believe it was meant to be applied to characters that were never shown to be alive to begin with (King Croacus I) or were already dead by the time the game started (Wrinkly Kong in some cases). Characters that died partway through the game does make this category confusing, as the category does not apply to them for the entire time they are on screen. Bobby is obviously alive at the start of Origami King, for example, so to mark him as "deceased" would not be 100% accurate. 14:37, July 30, 2020 (EDT)
 * By that logic he's not alive the entire time he's on screen either so not marking him as deceased wouldn't be 100% accurate. Taking that to a logical extreme, the Paper Mario partners aren't instantly in your party the moment they appear, and in the original game all of them leave your party in the epilogue. Should we not categorize them as partners just because they aren't constantly in your party throughout the entire game? Personally, if I'm looking at a category of deceased characters I want to see all the dead characters in the franchise, not what's essentially a list of only characters who died offscreen, and I would think that's what most readers would be looking for. Besides, you have to have been alive to be dead, why should only ever being alive offscreen make a character more eligible for the category? The current usage of the "Deceased Characters" category is incredibly confusing as the whole situation regarding Bobby has shown, and it doesn't help that this supposed "rule" has never actually been on the category page, making me wonder where it even came from in the first place - has it ever been what the category is supposed to be for or is it just the personal preference of some users (and if it's the latter, why was it ever enforced in the first place)? -- 15:26, July 30, 2020 (EDT)

While this is certainly a step in the right direction, I take a bit of issue with considering "ghosts in general" to be undead. The generic enemy ghosts in LM, for example, were created as such by van Gore, and as such were never "alive" nor "dead" prior, and as such cannot have "un-died." This is an example of "paranormal" being a more accurate term, though of course there are cases like Wrinkly, Krow, Dry Bones, Dry Bowser, Bonetail, and Bobby where they actually are undead. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 15:34, July 30, 2020 (EDT)
 * That could probably be easily solved by splitting all the ghosts into their own Undead subcategory, which technically still classifies them as undead but it's better than the current setup in that regard. There's certainly enough of them in the franchise to make it worth it, especially considering we've already given Skeletons, Mummies and Vampires their own categories with the latter two having only 16 and 8 entries, respectively. -- 15:53, July 30, 2020 (EDT)

I'd be in favor of just scrapping the category entirely. LinkTheLefty (talk) 18:10, July 30, 2020 (EDT)
 * Honestly, I thought of that earlier today too.
 * I don't really think the fact that Nintendo can resurrect any character they want on a whim (which any fictional series can do) makes a deceased characters category less useful. By definition it's supposed to contain all characters that are dead according to the current story. Besides, it happens so rarely anyway (I don't even know of any other examples besides the Fawful one, aside from maybe the overly dramatic SMW flavor text for some of the Koopalings) and it's not like it's that hard to remove a single category from a single page if it does happen. -- 19:13, July 30, 2020 (EDT)