Talk:Iron ball

Name??
Is this an official name?--son.of.suns@gmail.com 19:05, 25 April 2006 (EDT)

Is that really the plural form? Big Steelys? I'm thinkin', and changing it to, Big Steelies. H K

Is that an official name? H K

neither Big Steelys or Big Steelies is official. in fact, I don't think Big Steely is official. Max2 who knows the conjecture templete, and thinks we should use it.

You are correct. Adding conjecture template. 20:24, 23 February 2007 (EST), the guy who agrees.

awww... I want to. :) go ahead, I don't care who does it, as long as it gets done! Max2

The name "Big Steely" comes from the Mario Mania player's guide for Super Mario World. - NES Boy 21:00, 8 April 2007 (EDT)

It's not conjecture it's from the official guide too. - Yoshi Master

Since when is it true that the cannonballs in Super Mario 64 are indeed Big Steelies? Last I checked those were never officially named. Vent 15:41, 9 July 2012 (EDT)

Super Mario 64
Just for the record, the SM64DS guide calls the things that roll down the mountain "boulders." Don't know about the S64 guide, but I assume that it isn't much different.
 * Just to avoid confusion, what is the code of that guide (top right on the front)? --Hiccup (talk) 03:52, 8 December 2015 (EST)
 * I don't know what you're referring to by "code". There's nothing on the cover except for the title. The guide I'm talking about is the Nintendo DS Pocket Guide (licensed by Prima), which seems to be the only official guide for SM64DS.

Paper Jam and Dream Team appearance?
Just out of curiosity in Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam there's a hammer called the iron ball hammer in which it drops a massive iron ball, don't you think it could be a Big Steely, also another thing to keep in mind it's not a cannonball because it would've otherwise stated it as one, instead it calls it an iron ball.

So I did some research on all of Dream Teams hammers and found that the same Iron Ball hammer exists there as well, and it is the same effect so I figured that it could possibly be a Big Steely.

The same applies to the Iron Ball Boots in Dream Team.

Super Mario 64 Appearance
I doubt they are Big Steelies, i think they're possibly intended to be different things. -- 12:17, 9 January 2019 (EST)
 * The rolling balls in Super Mario 64 are probably meant to be different things, as Big Steelies are often used as weapons, while the rolling balls from Super Mario 64 are obstacles, and they have multiple different names. It should be noted that in Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story they are called iron balls, a name also used for the rolling balls in Super Mario 64, however Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story probably uses that name as a generic name, not a reference to Super Mario 64. (and the Super Mario 64 rolling balls have other unique names.) 12:33, 9 January 2019 (EST)
 * I'd like to see if the JP name for the SMW obstacle calls them iron. If so, they're the same generic thing. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 17:25, 9 January 2019 (EST)
 * The problem is that both of the names for the SMW obstacle come from Mario Mania, and to my knowledge that book was not released in Japanese, so we would need a new SMW source to know if they are called iron balls in Japanese. 17:32, 9 January 2019 (EST)
 * PLENTY of Japanese guidebooks were based off SMW, they'd have a name for it in the Bowser fight section. Ask Mister Wu. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 17:36, 9 January 2019 (EST)
 * I think it's a stretch to rope the two iron balls from Super Mario World and Super Mario 64 as "Big Steely". It's as ridiculous as saying every cannon ball is a big steely, IMO. 17:42, 9 January 2019 (EST)
 * If the JP name generically calls the SMW obstacle an iron ball, then they're all generic iron balls that fall and roll around. That would answer this. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 17:45, 9 January 2019 (EST)
 * Just as generic subject? Is it mentioned on the Super Mario Manga Advantures page? Here. I'm still learning Japanese letters. -- 12:07, 10 January 2019 (EST)
 * Ask Mister Wu or LinkTheLefty. I don't read Hirigana or Katakana. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 14:05, 10 January 2019 (EST)
 * OK, results are in. Both generic, both the same. They're the same thing. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 22:19, 17 January 2019 (EST)
 * Should the article be renamed to "iron ball" (its most common name) to match? "Big Steely" now gives the false impression that there's a normal-sized thing called a "Steely". LinkTheLefty (talk) 08:38, 18 January 2019 (EST)

Rename to "iron ball"
See above for all the reasons. If even the Japanese Nintendo Official Guidebook of Super Mario World uses "iron ball", what's the point of using Big Steely?

Proposer: Deadline: May 2, 2023, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) Per proposal
 * 2) - Generic sphere and a long-disused name (even though I personally like said name). Per.
 * 3) Per Doc (also, the Mario Mania guide only referred to these iron balls as Big Steelies at the enemy lineup, and only once at that; when the guide goes through the final battle, they're referred to as Bowling Balls instead, so even in the guide the two terms were being used interchangeably).
 * 4) Per all, the name "Big Steely" is clearly antiquated and I'm surprised this page never got the part conjecture tag.
 * 5) Per all.
 * 6) Per all.
 * 7) Big Steely is a one off name in one guide and the rest of the article covers a ball that is referred to many terms except Big Steely. The article should be turned into a more generic term to reflect this unless there is a good case to be made for a split for the particular projectile from the Super Mario World boss fight (not a strong case imo either because of all the different terms used for that one too).
 * 8) I prefer "bowling ball" myself, but "iron ball" seems the most common overall and "Big Steely" should've been gone a long time ago.
 * 9) Even if I personally prefer the name "Big Steely", we should probably go with the more commonly used name.
 * 10) Per all.

Oppose
Despite being underused, it's still an official name and to be frankly honest, it's still a far better name than just using a generic term like metal ball, cannonball or rock.

Comments
Not part of this proposal, but I think we could also merge this with metal ball. 15:27, April 18, 2023 (EDT)
 * I know this probably isn't the place to discuss this, but I would sooner support the idea of renaming metal ball to Pinball (obstacle). I feel that takes the whole "recent name takes priority" a little too literally. Pinball is still an official name and I really don't think we need Nintendo to specifically dictate to us that those metal balls are pinballs. Additionally, those metal balls are exclusively used in pinball settings, making the Pinball name even more relevant.
 * (I probably shouldn't be responding to this but) In other words, iron balls are only called pinballs when used in pinball settings. That feels like... of course it would be that way? As far as I understand, those still work like usual, they're still obstacles rolling around, and they look like the same generic metal spheres. Blinker (talk) 17:47, April 18, 2023 (EDT)
 * Don't quote me on this, but I don't think silver pinballs are made of iron. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:21, April 18, 2023 (EDT)
 * Wait, where and when has it been established that the pinballs in Waluigi Pinball are specifically made of silver? Additionally, its Japanese name "tekkyū" literally means "iron ball", which is the same case with Big Steely, so I understand the merger from that point of view. 19:13, April 18, 2023 (EDT)
 * I meant more silver as a texture, my bad. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 19:25, April 18, 2023 (EDT)

Not voting yet, but I'm more inclined to stick with actual names than generic descriptors, regardless of recency. -- 16:57, April 18, 2023 (EDT)


 * Was it ever specifically said that the round rocks in Superstar Saga are Big Steelies? PrincessPeachFan (talk) 09:02, April 19, 2023 (EDT)
 * This video shows that the Japanese version of the game uses the usual "tekkyū" name, where the English version calls it a "rock". Blinker (talk) 09:21, April 19, 2023 (EDT)

Are the objects outside of Super Mario World even called Big Steelies or is this article just documenting all instances of large rolling cannonballs as a Big Steely? If they aren't called Big Steelies outside of Super Mario World (and they do not appear to be) then I support making the article having a more generic name. 17:33, April 19, 2023 (EDT)
 * Indeed, "Big Steely" is from a single instance in a single guidebook, and not even other SMW guides (or elsewhere in the same guide) use it. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 17:43, April 19, 2023 (EDT)

I just noticed that this uses the item infobox for some reason instead of the species infobox like Spike Ball. So I guess I have to ask the question: what exactly are iron balls in relation to Spike Balls? Are they generic enough that iron balls are the "parent species" to Spike Balls, even though they technically debuted later? Or does "relative" work ala Rocky Wrench and Monty Mole? LinkTheLefty (talk) 10:40, April 21, 2023 (EDT)
 * I suppose "relatives" could work. Personally though, I think it's kinda odd we're using species infoboxes for hazards like this. Like, these clearly aren't living beings. I understand why we're using them regardless though, it's just a bit odd IMO. 15:38, April 21, 2023 (EDT)
 * It's not quite the right word, but we do use this infobox for obstacles in general. Maybe it's a holdover when terms like "subspecies" were overused. LinkTheLefty (talk) 16:33, April 21, 2023 (EDT)
 * The species infobox probably isn't appropriate for Spike Ball to begin with. 17:37, April 21, 2023 (EDT)
 * I've noticed Fireball and Ice Ball also use the species infobox, to add to the confusion, and they benefit from it by having one as a variant of the other, despite it clearly not being right to call them species. Blinker (talk) 17:41, April 21, 2023 (EDT)
 * The obvious solution is to put "variant"-type parameters on the item infoboxes, I've been toying with the idea for a while. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:09, April 21, 2023 (EDT)
 * Perhaps, though I'd say obstacles and traps like Bill Blasters and Fire Bars aren't really "items" either. Maybe this is better suited for a broader discussion. LinkTheLefty (talk) 18:21, April 21, 2023 (EDT)

Apparently, screenshots for the upcoming Bowser Tour in Mario Kart Tour shows metal balls (and metal ball dispensers) on GBA Bowser's Castle 4, looking identical to the ones from DS Waluigi Pinball, meaning that it might be the exact same object (although we don't know for sure until the Tour begins on May 3, after the proposal ends). Considering this, and that both iron balls/Big Steelies and metal balls/pinballs share the same Japanese name of "tekkyū" (lit. iron ball), I think this further incites a merge of the two pages, like DannyTheDingo suggested earlier (although I'd prefer metal ball/pinball to be merged with this page, rather than the other way around like he suggested). 08:23, April 29, 2023 (EDT)