Talk:Mario Kart 8

Acceleration tiers...
Acceleration tiers return in MK8. 150cc and 200cc were found by Mister Wu while 50cc and 100cc were found by me.

50cc: 1.00 1.25-1.75 2.00-2.75 3.00-3.75 4.00-4.75 5.00-5.75

100cc: 1.00 1.25 1.50-1.75 2.00-2.75 3.00-3.75 4.00-4.75 5.00-5.75

150cc: 1.00 1.25 1.50-1.75 2.00 2.25-2.75 3.00-3.75 4.00-4.75 5.00-5.75

In 200cc all acceleration vaules have different subtiers but the acceleration tiers still exist (e.g. the difference between 3.50 and 3.75 is less than the difference between 3.75 and 4.00). Sarantis (talk) 16:16, 30 August 2015 (EDT)

Who put the bases in the character AND vehicle part stats?
Excuse me, but nor the game itself, nor Nintendo SAID that MK8 had bases! In the games we show on all wikis, we show ONLY official things! Because of this, I fixed the character stats and brought it back to how it was before. Unfortunately, I can't do that with the vehicle parts because they are NOT displayed! Someone else must fix that! Sarantis (talk) 12:37, 1 September 2015 (EDT)
 * They are reported in the official PRIMA guide, so they are more official than the values commonly reporterd!--Mister Wu (talk) 13:33, 1 September 2015 (EDT)
 * Yep, I just failed in my trap. I'm getting ready for other similar situations. Sarantis (talk) 13:48, 1 September 2015 (EDT)
 * Don't worry, anyway one page of the guide is public, so for reference to anyone here it is:character stats for unlockable characters--Mister Wu (talk) 13:55, 1 September 2015 (EDT)
 * I changed my mind. I think that Nintendo's values are more official than the PRIMA guide's values. Sarantis (talk) 04:45, 2 September 2015 (EDT)
 * I think you're missing the point. the value in the PRIMA guide come directly from the developers and are the value used by the actual game. The value commonly used were derived from them:http://www.mariowiki.com/Template:MarioKart8Parts--Mister Wu (talk) 06:47, 2 September 2015 (EDT)
 * The link doesn't lead me to the site it was supposed to show. Instead it leads me to an empty page. ._. Sarantis (talk) 07:45, 2 September 2015 (EDT)
 * the signature altered the linkhere is the correct link.--Mister Wu (talk) 07:54, 2 September 2015 (EDT)
 * OK fine, I guess you're right. But for those who don't know anything about PRIMA guide!? Most people know about the games themselves without knowing their PRIMA guide! Sarantis (talk) 08:20, 2 September 2015 (EDT)
 * This is why the values used before are in bold: I wanted them to still be clearly visible because, although the official values are very useful to know the contribution of each part to the final stats, the commonly used values are useful to know rapidly what the final stats will be and are the most widely known. If you watch carefully, no information has been removed, just the PRIMA guide values have been added. Of course, if you have more suggestions to make the previous values more visible, tell me.--Mister Wu (talk) 08:41, 2 September 2015 (EDT)
 * Well actually I don't have any problem. I understand now why you added the PRIMA guide stats and kept the stats shown in-game. But if I find another problem, I'll tell you! Sarantis (talk) 09:23, 2 September 2015 (EDT) EDIT: Also, does the PRIMA guide have times for the DLC courses in the "Kart of Champions" section?
 * Sadly, the PRIMA eGuide wasn't updated, this is the reason I had to back-calculate the stats for the DLC drivers and parts and to insert a reference to Gunslinger Gaming MK8 stats calculator.--Mister Wu (talk) 10:35, 2 September 2015 (EDT)
 * Ugh, here we go again! *facepalm* I think that many people don't know what is the PRIMA guide, so there might be confused when they see these numbers. I KNOW you did say that the number in bold are the character and vehicle part statistics! But they might think that the numbers above the bold ones are completely pointless and try to delete them! Sarantis (talk) 12:12, 2 September 2015 (EDT)
 * "The units are out of 6, obtained by dividing the resulting points for each stat by 4."; "The following tables report the points assigned to each driver[15]. The stats for DLC packs' characters pertaining to new classes have been reconstructed from the data displayed on the combination select screen and from publicly available data[16]. The numbers in bold denote the stats obtained when using standard parts (Standard Kart, Standard Tires, Super Glider)."; "The parts are listed as they appear in-game, and the points they confer are reported[20]. The data for DLC packs' parts pertaining to new classes are reconstructed from publicly available data[16]. The value in bold indicate the differences with respect to the standard parts." I stated what is reported and what is the number in bold.--Mister Wu (talk) 17:59, 2 September 2015 (EDT)
 * OK I understood this 100% for sure!!! Sarantis (talk) 13:27, 2 September 2015 (EDT)
 * OK, this just came out of my mind today! While I DO understand 100% for sure the stats as they are shown on the PRIMA Guide (I even told you above), I believe we should display the stats as they are shown in-game; the stats look different in-game and on PRIMA guide but they are shared by the same characters and vehicle parts! The "Kart of Champions" ghosts ARE staff ghosts too but they are made by different people with different vehicle combinations! Plus they have a completely different time compared to the in-game staff ghosts (and have a pretty big difference in comparasion)! Sarantis (talk) 14:31, 18 September 2015 (EDT)
 * The in-game stats are those shown in bold (deliberately so they are more visible than the ones reported in the PRIMA guide, which are useful for other purposes but less intuitive to read). If you think they can be made more visible I am open to proposals.--Mister Wu (talk) 16:04, 18 September 2015 (EDT)
 * *facepalm* I KNOW the in-game stats are shown in bold!!! I also don't think that the in-game stats can be any more visible! Plus the PRIMA guide is incomplete, so I think we need to remove that stats as they are shown on the PRIMA guide because of this and because of what I said above (the characters and vehicle parts' stats look different but are shared by the same characters and vehicle parts)! Sarantis (talk) 16:10, 18 September 2015 (EDT)
 * Sorry, but before editing I had talked to, a bureaucrat, who suggested me to use this format. I am not removing these values, which I find useful (they tell you how much each part contributes to each stat) and are the actual values used for the in-game calculations. So, it is better if you set up a Talk Page Proposal about whether or not to include these values.--Mister Wu (talk) 17:41, 18 September 2015 (EDT)
 * Ugh, he just said that he doesn't know too much, plus I contacted the wrong person. Look, another reason I want you to show the stats as they are shown ONLY in-game is because every single page for this game uses the stats or whatever as they are shown ONLY in-game (for example, MK7's character and vehicle stats)! Also because most people probably don't know anything about the PRIMA guide! I KNOW you said in the page that the numbers in bold are the in-game stats but most people will be wondering where do these numbers come from! Sarantis (talk) 13:07, 19 September 2015 (EDT)

"She", actually. As long as the explanations before the tables tell people what the non-bold vs. bold numbers pertain to, there shouldn't be confusion, and Prima is actually pretty well-known as a maker of Mario guides. I really don't get why you're getting so worked up about still-factual information being added to the article: extra info is usually a good thing. But if you're really so opposed, make a proposal about it, because this discussion is going nowhere. - 13:29, 19 September 2015 (EDT)
 * Oh. I didn't know you're a female guy. Well, I don't really see the point of showing their stats as shown on the PRIMA guide when it shows the stats as shown in-game! It's completely pointless in my opinion! Plus every single game on this wiki shows most information as shown in-game In my opinion, if an info exist to both in-game and on PRIMA guide, the page should show the info as shown in-game! However if someone wants to add information shown only on PRIMA guide and isn't seen at all in-game, they can add it as it looks on the PRIMA guide because the info they add doesn't exist in-game! Sarantis (talk) 14:17, 19 September 2015 (EDT)
 * Well:


 * Super Mario Kart: the stats are reported in the manual, not in-game.


 * Mario Kart 64: the stats are reported in the manual, not in-game, and even they are incorrect, so a video reference was needed.


 * Mario Kart: Double Dash!!: there is a whole section with the correct stats, which are not those in-game!


 * Mario Kart 7: the hidden stats are, well, hidden! The game doesn't show them!


 * Mario Kart 8: the hidden stats are, well, hidden! The game doesn't show them!


 * --Mister Wu (talk) 14:51, 19 September 2015 (EDT)
 * Yes, also known as a girl? Anyway, besides the Mario Kart series, lots of games have information found only in manuals and guides, and the wiki uses all this information on whatever game and subject pages they're relevant to. The Prima Games article is for information about the Prima guides, not the information within them: that info goes in places like here, and putting the two sets of numbers side-by-side is the most efficient presentation. - 15:02, 19 September 2015 (EDT)
 * Well, to both of you guys, what I've seen so far is if there's an information found both in-game and on manuals, the wikis usually show only the in-game information. Sarantis (talk) 15:27, 19 September 2015 (EDT)
 * You should really explain what you mean with in-game, as all the examples I posted report information which is not supplied by the game directly.--Mister Wu (talk) 17:40, 19 September 2015 (EDT)

I probably triggered an edit conflict, but the page was overdue for an archive. Just letting you know. 17:50, 19 September 2015 (EDT)
 * *facepalm* Mister Wu, when I mean in-game, I mean in the game itself! On this wiki, I've seen that if there's any information shown on manuals and in-game (for example, MK8's and MK7's stats), they use ONLY the in-game information! Sarantis (talk) 03:37, 20 September 2015 (EDT)
 * No they don't: the table I mentioned in the Mario Kart: Double Dash!! article does not use the in-game format, as the values range from 1 to 9 while the game uses 1 to 5 stars. This is true, of course, also for the hidden Off-Road stat.--Mister Wu (talk) 14:02, 20 September 2015 (EDT)
 * I just want to point out that Double Dash! and Mario Kart 64 outright lie about these stats. In those cases, it's better that we obtain information from independent testing and other external sources. 19:10, 20 September 2015 (EDT)
 * Also, I don't know what you're talking about, Sarantis. For example, in Mario Kart 7, some stats such as underwater handling, stability, and air speed are not shown in-game and only in the official game guide, Prima. Are you suggesting we should scramble Prima stats and in-game stats just because in-game stats inherently take priority?  19:14, 20 September 2015 (EDT)
 * Ugh, I haven't seen you guys putting the MK7 character and vehicle part stats as shown on PRIMA guide! But you did this on MK8! What do I mean? I mean that I found really unneccesary to put the stats as shown on the PRIMA guide! I think we should make the list show the stats as shown ONLY in-game! As for the hidden stats, keep them, just remove the stats as they would have been shown on PRIMA guide! I mean, keep the hidden stats, but remove the stats as shown on PRIMA guide and use only the stats as shown in-game because you haven't added the stats as shown on PRIMA guide in MK7! Sarantis (talk) 04:22, 21 September 2015 (EDT)
 * As I said before, the reason why I added this information is because I find it useful (and furthermore the previous information is still here, in bold, so nothing was lost in the process of adding it). If you want it to be removed, you should setup a Talk Page Proposal. You can find the instructions here--Mister Wu (talk) 06:27, 21 September 2015 (EDT)
 * I want for the alternative appearance of the character and vehicle stats to be removed because I find them unneccesary to be present when we have at least the in-game values only. Well, I'm gonna post it to the "Changes" section since nothing will be removed. Just a change will be applied to it. Sarantis (talk) 10:46, 21 September 2015 (EDT)
 * Remember that you have to post the talk page proposal here, in this talk page. Once you do that, you have to add a line in the "List of Talk Page Proposals" subsection which is found in the "Talk Page Proposals" section of the page I linked, like the others did. If you want an example, click on the "Discuss" link of some of the proposals you find in the aforementioned subsection.--Mister Wu (talk) 10:55, 21 September 2015 (EDT)
 * Sarantis: So, again, you're saying we should just scramble the numbers? Keep some, remove some? At this point, wouldn't it just be a better idea to list both values? I think the kart parts table is difficult to understand, but that's from sloppy table formatting. Anyhow, I think the values are supposed to be either reported from Prima or relative to the Standard Kart. I don't see the issue in that? I think it makes it easier to understand for those who have the Prime Guide and those who use the unreliable in-game stats. Not that I really give a damn about stats in a Mario Kart game. 14:20, 21 September 2015 (EDT)
 * Ugh, you know what guys, I give up. Besides, some people prefer the one way and some other people prefer the other way. Keep them as they are. Don't change or delete anything else. Sarantis (talk) 06:56, 22 September 2015 (EDT)
 * The whole time I was trying to say to you guys is that the board should look like THIS:

The WHOLE time I was trying to say to remove everything I did on that example above this comment on the character and vehicle part stats. Sarantis (talk) 08:17, 25 September 2015 (EDT)


 * Yeah, we knew what you wanted us to do, we just don't see WHY we should remove the second set of stats, because there really isn't a good reason to remove them, and so, we won't remove them. So please stop wasting everyone's time with this. - 11:56, 25 September 2015 (EDT)
 * Because, like I said before, I find the second set of stats unneccesary! If you and the others find them neccessary, feel free to keep them! I just don't really care! Sarantis (talk) 12:31, 25 September 2015 (EDT)
 * All right then. If you don't care, then why bring it up in the first place? 12:35, 25 September 2015 (EDT)
 * I really wish I had data-mining skills so I can look into the stats of the karts in-game. :P :P :P Anyway, why not resort to a little data-mining and testing to uncover more information about things we don't know? It's more interesting that way.  12:50, 25 September 2015 (EDT)
 * Data mining is not frequent in Mario Kart 8 apparently, Mario Kart DS has this, while Mario Kart Wii has this (by the way, do you think they are legit? Because if they are, we should create additional tables à la Mario Kart: Double Dash!!), 8 had the DLC tracks leak, plus the hidden stats of DLC-only vehicle classes are now publicly available without a clear source stating where they come from, so I suspect they are too coming form data mining.--Mister Wu (talk) 18:02, 25 September 2015 (EDT)
 * We also have data mining in the Mario Kart 64 article, apparently at least. Buuut, I really think data mining and the gritty details be covered in the respective articles rather than here. The website looks legit. I think it's interesting enough to be in our wiki, and there shouldn't be a reason to leave that out as long as it doesn't delve into excessive jargon. 18:19, 25 September 2015 (EDT)
 * Bazooka Mario, maybe because I consider myself the dumbest person in the world? I really shouldn't take it seriously. *facepalm* Sarantis (talk) 14:39, 25 September 2015 (EDT)
 * Sarantis: You're not the dumbest person in the world. No one here is. Don't take it seriously. I don't think we should remove the second set of stats or whatever. PowerKamekSignature.png(talk|contribs) 16:47, 25 September 2015 (EDT)
 * You're not the dumbest person in the world. We have clarified our positions and of course you don't have to agree with me.--Mister Wu (talk) 18:02, 25 September 2015 (EDT)
 * Yeah, no need to be self-defeating. We're just expressing disagreements. 18:19, 25 September 2015 (EDT)
 * Look, I wanted for the second set of stats to be removed because, not only you haven't put MK7's second stats yet, but, like I said before, I find the second set of stats unneccesary! I'm not even sure if MK7 has a second set of stats like MK8 has! Sarantis (talk) 05:41, 26 September 2015 (EDT)
 * Yes, the PRIMA guide of MK7 reports stats in points again with an addition-based system (stats for drivers and individual parts are added to create the final stats). I would add them too, but honestly I don't want to create another lengthy discussion so for the moment I won't do anything...--Mister Wu (talk) 10:20, 27 September 2015 (EDT)
 * Well, of course adding the second set of stats makes the page slightly longer! Sarantis (talk) 16:11, 27 September 2015 (EDT)
 * Also, I said to remove them simply because I find them unneccesary! Who needs the second set of stats anyway? Besides, the second set of stats don't EVEN have negative numbers at all, which means they don't decrease a stat! It's just another thing it bothers me, as the main game uses the first set of stats only and the second set of stats make it look like if it used the stats as they looked in MKW! And please don't add the second set of stats in MK7... Sarantis (talk) 14:41, 28 September 2015 (EDT)
 * EDIT: Also, I think in all MKs we should use only 1 set of stats and they should show the more correct ones. To me I find the 1st set of stats more correct than the 2nd set of stats. There you have my reason why.

Sarantis, we are not removing the stats. The physical page length is the same with or without them since the images are taller than the two-lined cells anyway and the bits length doesn't matter, and if we have additional info to add to the other Mario Kart pages, we will, regardless of how much you personally take issue with Prima stats: no one else agrees with you. I asked you once already, but now I am telling you that if you do not drop this issue, you will receive an official Reminder for using mainspace talk pages for unconstructive purposes, because dead-end arguments like this are not useful for anyone. Enough is enough: stop wasting your time. - 15:25, 28 September 2015 (EDT)
 * OK, I'll stop for sure, I promise!!! Besides, I already got used to the addition of the second set of stats. Sarantis (talk) 07:01, 29 September 2015 (EDT)

Koopa Clown Car cameo?
Has anyone noticed in Mario Kart Stadium that the Koopa Clown Car makes a cameo in this game's course? The only thing different about this one is that it has the MKTV logo on it.--70.79.246.167 02:26, 6 September 2015 (EDT)
 * I don't think it's been recorded on this page because it's not that noteworthy...but feel free to add that to the Koopa Clown Car page if it's not already there. MarioComix (talk) 03:50, 6 September 2015 (EDT)

Master Cycle's underwater Speed
I found out this July that Master Cycle's underwater speed is +0.5 and NOT -0.25! Whoever did this change must change it right now! Sarantis (talk) 08:56, 26 September 2015 (EDT)
 * I'm saying this now, if you can't change the second stats to be identical to the REAL first stats (the first stats says that Master Cycle's underwater speed is actually +0.5), then remove the second stats on both character and vehicle part stats and keep only the first, so you can change Master Cycle's underwater speed to +0.5. Sarantis (talk) 17:45, 26 September 2015 (EDT)
 * I just checked and experimental evidence suggest that the Master Cycle water speed is +0.5, so that will be changed. I wonder what is the source for these hidden stats...--Mister Wu (talk) 19:16, 26 September 2015 (EDT)
 * Ok, now the value is correct. The experimental data I was talking about is here and here.--Mister Wu (talk) 19:29, 26 September 2015 (EDT)