MarioWiki:Proposals

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r149/Deadringerforlove/dessert1.jpg A proposal section works like a discussion page: comments are brought up and replied to using indents (colons, such as : or ::::) and all edits are signed using the code.

This page observes the No-Signature Policy.

How To
 * 1) Actions that users feel are appropriate to have community approval first can be added by anyone, but they must have a strong argument.
 * 2) Users then start to discuss on the issue. 24 hours after posting the proposal (rounding up or down to the next or previous full hour, respectively, is allowed), the voting period begins. (The proposer is allowed to support their proposal right after posting.) Each proposal ends at the end of the day one week after voting start. (All times GMT).
 * 3) Every vote should have a reason accompanying it.
 * 4) Users who feel that certain votes were cast in bad faith or which truly have no merit can address the votes in the Comments section. Users can ask a voter to clarify their position, point out mistakes or flaws in their arguments, or call for the outright removal of the vote if it lacks sufficient reasoning. Users may not remove or alter the content of anyone else's votes. The voter can remove or rewrite their own vote at any time, but the final decision to remove another User's vote lies solely with the Administrators.
 * 5) " # " should be added under the last vote of each support/oppose section to show another blank line.
 * 6) All proposals that end up in a tie will be extended for another week.
 * 7) If a proposal has more than ten votes, it can only pass or fail by a margin of three votes. If a proposal reaches the deadline and the total number of votes for each option differ by two or less votes, the deadline will be extended for another week.
 * 8) Any proposal that has three votes or less at deadline will automatically be listed as "NO QUORUM." The original proposer then has the option to relist said proposal to generate more discussion.
 * 9) No proposal can overturn the decision of a previous proposal that is less than 4 weeks (28 days) old.
 * 10) Proposals can only be rewritten or deleted by their proposer within the first three days of their creation. However, the proposer can request that their proposal be deleted by a Sysop at any time, provided they have a valid reason for it.
 * 11) All proposals are archived. The original proposer must take action accordingly if the outcome of the proposal dictates it. If it requires the help of a Sysop, the proposer can ask for that help.
 * 12) There shouldn't be proposals about creating articles on a underrepresented or completely absent subject, unless there is major disagreement about whether the content should be included. To organize efforts about completing articles on missing subjects, try creating a PipeProject.
 * 13) Proposals cannot be made about System Operator promotions and demotions. Sysops can only be promoted and demoted by the will of Bureaucrats.
 * 14) If the Sysops deem a proposal unnecessary or potentially detrimental to the upkeep of the Super Mario Wiki, they have the right to remove it at any time.
 * 15) No joke proposals. Proposals are serious wiki matters, and should be handled professionally. Joke proposals will be deleted on sight.

The times are in GMT, and are set so that the user is more likely to be online at those times (after work/school, weekend nights). If a proposal is added on Monday night at 23:59 GMT, the deadline is the night of the Tuesday of the next week at 23:59 PM. If it is posted a minute later, the deadline is 23:59 PM of the Wednesday of the next week, since midnight is considered to be part of the next day, as 00:00 AM.

Basic Proposal and Support/Oppose Format
This is an example how your proposal should look like, if you want it to be acknowledged. If you are inexperienced or unsure how to set up this format, simply copy the following and paste it into the fitting section. Then replace the [subject] - variables with information to customize your proposal, so it says what you wish. If you insert the information, be sure to replace the whole variable including the squared brackets, so "[insert info here]" becomes "This is the inserted information", not "[This is the inserted information]". - ===[insert a title for your Proposal here]=== [describe what you want this Proposal to be like, what changes you would suggest and what this is about]

Proposer: Voting start: [insert a voting start time here, f.e. "2 January, 2010, 14:00". Voting start times are 24 hours after the time at which the proposal was posted, as described in Rule 2 above.] Deadline: [insert a deadline here, 7 days after the voting start, at 23:59 GMT.]

====Support====

====Oppose====

====Comments==== - Users will now be able to vote on your Proposal, until the set deadline is reached. Remember, you are a user as well, so you can vote on your own Proposal just like the others.

To support, or oppose, just insert " # at the bottom of the section of your choice. Just don't forget to add a valid reason for your vote behind that tag if you are voting on anoother user's Proposal. If you are voting on your own Proposal, you can just say "Per my Proposal".

Talk Page Proposals
All proposals dealing with a single article or a specific group of articles are held on the talk page of one of the articles in question. Proposals dealing with massive amounts of splits, merges or deletions across the Wiki should still be held on this page.

How To

 * 1) All active talk page proposals must be listed below in chronological order (new proposals go at the bottom). All pages effected must be mentioned in the brief description, with the talk page housing the discussion linked to directly via "". If the proposal involved a page that is not yet made, use to communicate its title. The Deadline must also be included in the entry. Linking to pages not directly involved in the talk page proposal is not recommended, as it clutters the list with unnecessary links. Place  under the heading.
 * 2) All rules for talk page proposals are the same as mainspace proposals (see the "How To" section above), with the exceptions made by Rules 3, 4, and 5, as follows:
 * 3) Voting in talk page proposals will be open for two weeks, not one. There is no 24 hour delay between the posting of a talk page proposal and the commencement of voting.
 * 4) Talk page proposals may closed by the proposer if both the support and the oppose sides each have fewer than five votes.
 * 5) After two weeks, a clear majority of three votes is required. Without the majority, the talk page proposal will be listed as "NO QUORUM."
 * 6) The talk page proposal must pertain to the article it is posted on.

List of Talk Page Proposals

 * Split SSX on Tour from Video game references. (Discuss) Passed
 * Split Mushroom (Super Mario RPG info) into Mushroom and (Discuss) Passed
 * Split Dragon into and . (Discuss) Passed
 * Split Entei's info into Pokémon and . (Discuss) Passed
 * Merge Pale Piranha into Piranha Plant. (Discuss) Deadline: 3 April 2010, 23:59
 * Split from Piranha Plant. (Discuss) Deadline: 3 April 2010, 23:59

Notable "Unofficial" Games
Why isn't there a section for notable "unlicensed" games? The page on Canonicity states that "fan creations, such as fan-fiction, fan-made video games, or fan-theories, are not to be referenced within our articles". I understand the "no-fanfiction" part, but I've seen what seems to be fan theories on several pages ("he is possibly a ..., but this is uncertain") and the page on Super Mario Bros. Special mentions the unofficial NES port.

My suggestion is not referring to crappy recolors or "Super (word) Bros." or the like. I refer to well-received fan-hacks such as...
 * The games of Dahrkdaiz (NES): I especially refer to Mario Adventure, a hack of Super Mario Bros. 3 that essentially rebuilt the game from the ground-up.
 * The Super Mario Bros. Deluxe series (SNES): A series of three Super Mario World hacks that import the levels of Mario 1, 2, and Lost Levels respectively plus a few bonuses – such as World-e in Lost Levels Deluxe.
 * Kaizo Mario World (SNES): Hack of Super Mario World that has become rather well-known for its insane difficulty.
 * Mushroom Kingdom Fusion (PC): A massive crossover-game featuring Mario and Sonic characters among many, many others. Has its own Wiki.

I also refer to "pirated" games that, although unofficial, have nonetheless been well-noticed by the fan community.
 * Super Mario 3 Special (GBC): Port of Super Mario Bros. 3 that, although very accurate in some respects, does not control very well. Uses a rather obscure mapper, which renders the game unplayable in most Game Boy (Color/Advance) emulators.
 * Super Mario World (NES), aka "Mario World NES": A 1995 release that ported quite a chunk of its source material despite the NES' limitations (no Banzai Bill, sorry!) – including the original game's "magic", as it were. There are two versions of this game, one of which may be a prototype of the other.
 * Kart Fighter (NES): A Super Mario Kart/Street Fighter II hybrid that predates (and may even have inspired) Super Smash Bros. Released by Hummer Team (same company that made "Mario World NES").
 * Somari the Adventurer (NES): A hack/port of Sonic the Hedgehog starring Mario, with a lot being ported from the source material. Released by "Somari Team".
 * Super Boy (Sega Master System/MSX): A series of four games that use Mario sprites and music.
 * The Great Giana Sisters (Commodore 64/DS): Game series that was a direct attempt to rip-off Super Mario Bros. Apparently these were "official" (not pirated) games, with the latter licensed by Nintendo.

And there are other games – such as Super Donkey Kong (NES), Donkey Kong Country 2 (NES), Super Mario 4 (GB), Mario Lottery (NES), and a few others – that capture the spirit of the games in this Wiki while still being unlicensed.

Basically, I propose that this site should devote articles to at least a few of the games which, although unofficial, are rather noteworthy in their own right (and in the positive sense, for the most part). If anyone wishes to know more about any of the aforementioned games, please let me know – but I won't link to ROMs.

Proposer: Voting start: 24 March, 2010, 18:20. Deadline: 31 March 2010, 23:59 (GMT).

No "unofficial" games should be included

 * 1) - per BabyLuigiOnFire's comment
 * 2) - unofficial games should not be mentioned. We cover the Mario series as made by Nintendo.
 * 3) - Per comment below.
 * 4) Per all
 * 5) Per comment above.
 * 6)  PEr below
 * Per all.
 * I'm against covering anything "unofficial" as long as we don't have a nearly "complete" coverage of past games, and they are still various gaps.
 * 1) - Per all.
 * 2) - Per all.
 * 3) - Per comment (short version: I don't think it would improve the wiki to list fan-made games.)
 * 4) Per all.
 * 5) – Per all.
 * 6) Per all. Anyone can write an unofficial game. Leave this stuff at the Mario Fanon Wiki.
 * 7) Per all.
 * 8) Per all.

Comments
No fanon should be allowed. We should only talk about official and stuff that are true in the Mario series. The only content we accept is stuff sponsored by Nintendo. Plus, this site isn't made for fanon. Make a wiki, or something else that deals with this. We are here for official Mario stuff only. I don't want fanon flooding pages either.
 * Making articles on hacks & bootlegs is not quite "fanon", but I agree that if it's not official (i.e. at least licensed by Nintendo), this Wiki is no place for it, no matter if it "captures the spirit" of the official games (which most of the games mentioned among the examples don't even do; Super Mario 4 for instance is a terrible hack of a Crayon Shin Chan game). How would it be decided if something is "worthy" of being covered anyway? Obviously everyone would add their own creations to the Wiki, and if things like these were allowed, we couldn't even stop them from doing that. Add to that the fact that none of these are legal and you have enough of a reason not to cover them.--

@Cobold: Your comment has a problem. Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Games was made by Sega, a bunch of games were made by Hudson Soft, Diddy Kong Racing was made by Raveware, and Mario hoops: 3 on 3 was made by a company I forgot.


 * @KS3: No, he's right. Those were all supporting companies that helped make the game. Check the back of the box (or is it front?) and find the official Nintendo Seal. If it's there, than it was made by Nintendo. If it's not there, then it wasn't made by Nintendo.
 * The Nintendo Seal of Quality doesn't have to mean it was made by Nintendo, it just means it was licensed by Nintendo. A lot of Mario-related games and merchandise weren't made by Nintendo but are still officially licensed. These hacks and bootlegs are not.--
 * Basically, games that you can find on stores and ads and have that Nintendo/SEGA/Whatever logo on the bottom right hand corner is feasible to add on this wiki.

Well, you don't actually define "unofficial" but you sort of give an idea of it. I don't think fan games (or fan media) should be allowed. I am pretty sure that any game made, sold and marketed by a professional company has the proper licensing to legally use a character which is trademarked by Nintendo. Any game which contains a properly licensed Mario (or Donkey Kong) character I feel is eligible for inclusion in this wiki. I can not think of anything the wiki would gain from indexing fan works.

Delete FA Nominations that are going nowhere
While checking the FA nominations I noticed some noms have been there for like 2 years(!) and they aren't going anywhere. Lets see, the Luigi nomination, one of the most popular Nintendo characters, and who naturally, has a LOT of fans. The nomination vote says "Dude this artical rocks!!!!! If you don't choose it I will!!!!!!!!". Is that a vote? Well, sadly, by our standards, it is. That nomination has been there for a lot of time because naturally, all the fan boys support, and while many users oppose, the nomination can't get deleted after it isn't edited 1 month, which doesn't happen at all, because some random day, one of these fanboys come and add a vote. And so we have to wait for another month, and the same thing happens each time, so it won't get removed. Believe, I have seen MANY users that register just to support an FA nomination, which leads me to another thing I will propose in the admins board.... What I propose, is that if after 2 months the article hasn't become featured, we archive the nomination, because it won't become featured! Who are we trying to fool? And I also propose the article is not ellegible for re-nomination before 2 months, and JUST IF MAJOR CHANGES HAVE BEEN APPLIED. EDIT: Time Q pointed out a flaw. So, the only nominations that will be deleted are the ones that have lasted for more than 4 months, and that have at least a .5:1 opposers to supporters ratio. So, what do you think?

Proposer: Voting Starts: Monday, March 23th 21:00 Deadline: Monday, March 30th 2010, 23:59

I can see those nominations are not going anywhere

 * 1) - Per me.
 * 2) - Per Tucayo.
 * 3) Per proposal. You know it's not going anywhere any time soon if the nomination lasts longer than 2 years. Ouch.
 * 4) Per proposal. And there are nominations for articles WE KNOW won't pass, but they will stay here for at least month. And there are nominations that last for 2 years (and growing)! Luigi's nomination, for example, is here ever since 2008! WHOA!!!
 * 5) Per proposal. That Luigi nomination has been here FOREVER!!! and it's going nowhere.
 * 6)  The way it now is is messy
 * 7) - Per all.
 * 8) I am Zero! Those FAs are not going to go anywhere at all, Per all. Zero signing out.
 * 9) – Per all.
 * 10) I'm a new guy but I see what your're going with there. I agree
 * 11) - A Featured Article should be of so astoundingly splendid quality that there is no question about its nomination . This is the way it should be. If a nominated article has to struggle for two whole months, then its clear there is something wrong with it. This is a very simple principle, and the facts about its flaws are exaggerated.

Oppose

 * 1) Per the comment of mine that is below.
 * 2) - Per Time Q in the comments. It has it's flaws, especially with the deletion of the Luigi article. Also, this vote option's title is extremely biased.
 * I do agree we need a rule to delete certain FA nominations; however I don't agree with the rule proposed here. The proposed .5:1 opposers to supporters ratio won't work, see the comments below.
 * 1) Per all.
 * 2) per all. The headers are biased towards the support side.
 * 3) – Besides the bias, I don't think that we should delete F.A. Nominations; I would rather have them archived/protected for future viewing.
 * 4) Per all. It'd just be nominated again with the same problems that were making it unfeatured/featured.

Comments
Tucayo, shouldn't the headers be non-biased (and you spelled "article" wrong)?.
 * They are not biased, they are creative, but they are non biased, still. And that is a pun from the nomination reason for Luigi :)
 * I do think the first one is biased. More opinions?

If the nomination page gets deleted, someone will simply renominate it. And if you point out the thing about the major changes, that someone will simply argue for hours with you. -
 * Well, they will have to wait 2 months, and I think everyone can see what major changes are. It will be obvious if the article has changed since it was last nominated. If you have any suggestion please tell me :)

...Isn't that the rule already? Except, I thought the current rule kept the nominations for only one month... I could be wrong.
 * There is, IIRC. This proposal proposes to change it to 2 months :)
 * Um, but why would you change it if you're trying to delete the nominations? I guess I'm missing something here.
 * Nominations are deleted if they are not edited for one month. However, there's no rule to delete nominations that are frequently edited but don't pass.

I don't think this is a good idea. 2 months seem too short to me. Also, your proposal doesn't consider special cases; for example, say after 1 month and 25 days, there are no opposes and at least 5 support votes, which means the nomination will pass after one week. However, according to your proposal the nomination would be deleted because 2 months have passed. This is obviously bad. Also, nominations with only one single oppose vote would be treated the same as nominations such as Luigi with lots of opposes. Do we really want that? I think it would be a better idea to find a system that allows us to delete nominations based on the amount of support and oppose votes. However, this needs to be discussed carefully, best on the FA talk page, rather than proposing a rule in a hurry that could have bad consequences.

Tucayo, this is exactly what i asked you. Badges, Geno, mama Mario, all those articles that have been featured latley you could not vote for!
 * I don't get your reason for opposing, Raphael.
 * @Time Q: Ah, thanks, I missed that part!

Where did all my supporters go.
 * They all added their votes before voting time started, so I had to remove them, sorry.
 * Oh, it's OK then :) For a reason I highly doubt most of them will re-support it....

.5:1 ratio? This would mean that the Luigi nomination can't be deleted.
 * My bad, I had said "supporters to opposers" I mean "opposers to supporters". @KS3: Thats not true.
 * Well, but then the Luigi nomination couldn't be deleted either.

Raphaelraven: You could always vote to unfeature them if you think they don't deserve to be featured...
 * @BLOF&Revirsinator: i opposed because not long ago i sent Tucayo a message asking why the articles that we get to vote for on the FA page never get featured, and the ones that do get featured (i.e. Mama mario, geno, shadow queen, badges etc...) we dont get to vote for. I hate to say his answer didnt help much. So, i fwhat im saying is true, theres no point in this proposal so we should just go and delete all the FA nominations B/C theyll never get featured!!!!!!!!

If this passes, we should also make a proposal on deleting FI proposals that don't get passed within a few months (like this)


 * But the voting system is entirely different than the Featured Article one!
 * Agree with LGM. RR497: I think you are not understanding my point. We are deleting nominations that, as the header, WHICH IS NOT BIASED BECAUSE THOSE NOMS ARE NOT GOING ANYWHERE, will never get decided. Tell me, what is the point in keeping the Luigi nomination? Never will all those 23 opposers be convinced to remove their oppose vote. Many of them don't even come in the wiki anymore, so, that nomination will be there FOREVER. @Opposers: You can't deny it. @Time Q: What do you think would be a fit method? Actually, this proposal will give the articles a second chance, starting anew, with no supporters, no opposers, which is good, isn't it?
 * They won't necessarily stay forever, for two reasons: First, they may stay unedited for one month, so they will be deleted. Second, all the points the opposers made may be fixed. Afterwards, the opposers remove their votes, or if they don't (because they're inactive or whatever), we can have a vote to remove the votes. You don't refer to my actual reason of opposing this proposal. You want to get rid of the Luigi nomination, but it won't work with the system you're proposing. I haven't thought about a good method of selecting nominations to delete, that's why I suggested to first discuss it on the FA talk page rather than make a proposal right away.

@SMB: The proposal says they will be archived, not deleted :)

Tucayo: Your proposal dates are March 23 and March 30, both are a tuesday, but it states monday. You should fit date.
 * Tucky: You actually state both archiving and deleting, which is rather confusing.


 * First off, the name of the proposal itself is "Delete FA Nominations that are going nowhere"... Yikes!
 * "That nomination has been there for a lot of time because naturally, all the fan boys support, and while many users oppose, the nomination can't get deleted after it isn't edited 1 month, which doesn't happen at all, because some random day, one of these fanboys come and add a vote." – Sounds like you are supporting a deletion right there.
 * "And so we have to wait for another month, and the same thing happens each time, so it won't get removed. " – This part is actually a bit ambiguous, and can probably be interpreted as either deleting or archiving.
 * "What I propose, is that if after 2 months the article hasn't become featured, we archive the nomination, because it won't become featured!" – This is really the only part where you clearly state that these nominations will be archived.
 * And then you leave off with, "So, the only nominations that will be deleted are the ones that have lasted for more than 4 months, and that have at least a .5:1 opposers to supporters ratio."
 * Overall, I cannot support your proposal, for you contradict what you are saying in the proposal and in the comments, and even in the proposal itself.
 * This is splitting hairs. Deletion does not automatically exclude archival storage . He does not contradict himself in any way, and he said deleted nominations are definitely archived. And that's actually all you are asking for. -

@Edo: You're aware that if you support a proposal, you support it with all its consequences, right? Can you please explain to me why you support the .5:1 ratio? And the facts about its flaws are not exaggerated >.< I can't understand why people support something knowing about its flaws but ignoring them 'cause they are "exaggerated" or unlikely. What if they do happen someday?


 * I shall explain my thoughts to you. First: I have read the proposal text several times and have thought thoroughly about it. The proposal is known for a few days to me now, so I had enough time. I do not ignore the flaws this proposal might have, I merely deem them too minor to interfere. Maybe you see a terrible apocalyptic flaw somewhere that I overlooked, I don't know. All I see is the suggestion to close FA nominations that have been around for two months without a decision, which I deem a good thing. Let me elaborate that: I believe if an article is to receive featured status, it has to be flawless, well-written, well-researched and overall of very, very good quality. Our visitors should see it and instantly think: "Man, this article is just awesome!". Now if we, the writers, nominate an article for FA status, and we cannot make up our minds for two whole months whether this article is "awesome" or not, then honestly, there is no doubt that there have to be flaws left in the article, or otherwise we wouldn't argue for so long. So, the nomination gets closed, the flaws get expelled, and then we can begin to argue again. This simple principle is actually valid for all FA nominations. The cause about the ratio just makes it more complicated.


 * This is how I imagine things to happen if this proposal passes. No desasters, no apocalypses, just the removal of pointless nominations and arguments that eat that time we actually should use to improve the articles themselves . -

Removing FI Votes
I go on the Featured Image page every day. Latley, I've noticed a lot of votes that say, "I just like it," or "I just don't like it," or "Yay!" or "Yes," and even plain old "No." I think every user should state a specific reason of why he/she is supporting or opposing, even if it is a s simple as "Bad Quality". If there is no reason, there's no point in voting at all! As most of you know, when voting for a Featured Article, users have the right to say why they want another users support/oppose vote removed. If other people agree, that vote is removed. I say we should add this feature to the Featured Images page, so we can remove support/oppose votes as we fell fit.

Proposer: Voting Start: 25 March 2010, 14:42 Deadline: 1 April 2010, 23:59

Support

 * 1) Per proposal.

Oppose

 * 1) Per everybody else in the commens section.
 * Per my comment below.
 * 1) Per comments above and/or below.
 * 2) - Per Time Q, and this was said before.
 * 3) Per all.
 * 4) – Per all.
 * 5) Per comments.
 * 6) - The whole voting process is stained with flaws... This will probably make it even worse.

Comments
This was brought up at least once before and is a very bad idea. Voting on FIs is a highly subjective thing, which means that in most cases you vote for an image because of your personal opinion. Thing is, you can't force people to reason their personal opinion, that's absurd. Also, look at the archives, when we started the FIs almost nobody put any text there beside their username, and it worked perfectly this way. Seriously, I think people are making way too much fuss about the FIs. It's just images that you support because you like them or oppose because you don't like them! If people can't accept that, the best way to deal with this is getting rid of the FIs completely.
 * Whether one likes a picture or not is an entirely subjective thing; a picture may appeal to one person, but not to someone else, not because of flaws in the image, but because of personal preferences. If someone likes the proposed FI, then they will support it because of that; if they don't like it, they will oppose. I don't think we can force them to state a specific reason why they (dis)like it, since that can be very hard to impossible to precisely point out, and something like "I like it because it looks nice to me" isn't any more informative than just the "I like it" vote.--

All I have got to say is that opinions are subjective; even I have a problem supporting a picture without a "good" reason. That's why featured images is a nice concept, but it doesn't fit with our factual-oriented wiki (and that's also why we had at least 2 proposals on removing it.)

Man, we should make a rule about this: Remember, all votes are based on opinions of the picture. It's ok if you don't like it, but someone else thinks it's super special awesome. We all have different opinions whether a picture is good or not. Or something like that.

@MATELEOBACAN: remember that ive only been on the wii since janurary 2010.


 * I'm pretty sure we had the other proposal like this before January.

"If people can't accept that, the best way to deal with this is getting rid of the FIs completely." – I can agree to this.

Change Catch Card List Organization
After looking at Paper Mario/Bestiary and Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door/Bestiary, I found that they were easy to navigate, although the original one is incomplete. Then, I stumbled upon List of Catch Cards and found that it isn't sortable. It needs to be put in a table of the same format as its predecessors.

Proposer: Voting Starts: Sunday, March 28, 2010, 23:45 GMT Deadline: Sunday, April 4, 2010, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) – Per proposal.

Comments
Basically, the Catch Card list is a pain in the ass to navigate. –
 * Can you elaborate on why it's a "pain in the ass to navigate"? If anything, it looks more neater then the other two.

Miscellaneous
None at the moment.