MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/4

Mario Info
REJECTED 6-2

It seems we have a rule that we cannot have Non-Mario info on pages for characters/places/items from other series', like Super Sonic or Zelda. However, we should be able to give at least a short back story of what happened in other games, doing so would make a lot of the articles make a lot more sense to viewers who are not fans of that series. I propose that we should be able to do this, AND include some images from previous Non-Mario games where the Place/Item/Character appeared(This may include some articles for things that would not get an article because they are from another series, even if they are shown/implied in a Mario game).

Proposer: Uniju :D Deadline: Oct. 19, 2007, 20:00

Support

 * 1) I am the proposer, and my reasons are given above.
 * 2) I agree with Uniju.

Oppose

 * 1) Were not allowed at first, so I agree with the old rule
 * 2) We already provide a brief backstory on the character. VERY brief summaries are allowed, and have already been used. Also, we should only provide Images from Mario-based games (The Cameos articles excluded).
 * 3) Per DP
 * 4) Son of Suns - We should only provide info that appears in Mario games. We don't want this becoming a general Nintendo/video game wiki.  Links should be provided to Wikipedia and other video game wikis so users can find more info about a non-Mario subject.
 * 5) Non-Mario related character articles should only list information that is relevant to said character being included in the Mario Wiki. Other information, such as a brief rundown of Zelda's history, would be out of place. Please see further comments below.
 * 6) - For Smash Bros. characters, the trophies of them and trophies of other elements of their series should provide enough story to put together.

Comments
Mr. Guy, you don't agree because an existing rule says otherwise? Thats the reason this is a proposal, and I don't think thats a valid reason. -_-'
 * And DP: Like I said in the proposal, most people who are NOT fans of that series will need to haunt down info from other places to understand any of it. So we should be able to show more info than we do, and theres nothing about Sonic Adventure on the Sonic article, or Ocarina of Time on the Zelda article, its against the rules to add that info.

I see Sonic as an exception to the rule. Sonic and Mario have a non-game rivalry that started way back in 1992. That might be something to place an article about. -- Chris 04:10, 13 October 2007 (EDT)

In theory this proposal sounds like a good idea. But as everyone else has said, this is Super Mario Wiki. We don't need to know what happened in Ocarina of Time to understand Zelda and Links' role in the Marioverse. And as Cobald said, for Super Smash. Bros. characters the trophies are enough to understand some stuff about thier personalities and some aspects of their personal history (Link is brave, Link saves Zelda a lot, etc.). If people want to find out more, the Internet's a big place, and it's not our job to tell people about Zelda or Earthbound or whatever, just Mario. - Walkazo
 * A line could be added at the end of a non-Mario characters article linking to Wikipedia or whatever series specific wiki is available. -- Chris 13:38, 13 October 2007 (EDT)
 * I see where you're coming from, Uniju. We should provide information to an extent.  Making a page as dedicated as Mario for example would be going overboard, obviously.  I think we're pretty good as it is now. :3  We should link to other Wikis, though.  How about one link to Wikipedia and one link to a specialty Wiki using the same format as Uncyclopedia?  Here's a couple of good Wikis:

00:21, 15 October 2007 (EDT)
 * Zelda Wiki from Wikia
 * Animal Crossing from Wikia <--yes, Uniju, I am being biased! You gotta admit that the two of us can carry that Wiki, though.  :D
 * Bulbapedia... whatever their URL is.
 * Might I add, there is also a Nintendo Wiki.
 * This seems like a good place to make a note about crosslinking. IE: Mario links to Mario, which also has a link back to Mario. This keeps the flow of information fresh. -- Chris 15:59, 16 October 2007 (EDT)
 * That would be great if Wikipedia would allow it. I've seen links to us get deleted, though.  Even though we rock socks.  20:29, 17 October 2007 (EDT)

Add Fan Flash Series
REJECTED 19-4

I've seen on Wikipedia an Super Mario Bros. Z article. Now it's deleted, but on another language (French for example), that article is still there. I think popular fan flash series, such as Super Mario Bros. Z shall be added. But what do YOU think? Shall we add them or not?

Proposer: Deadline: Sunday, October 21, 2007, 15:00 (EDT)

ADD THEM!!!!

 * 1) I'm Proposer
 * 2) User:Gowser Yes it's a popular cartoon and It has to do with Mario, so I don't see why not.
 * 3) Mcoolister-Yes add them! I remember in one of the episodes credits it said that they got permission by Nintendo and Sega.
 * 4) Superjustin It would be nice to add an article based on a popular web show. But sadly, as I can tell from the amount of posts below, I can say, no. Sorry SMBZ lovers. =(

Don't add them...

 * 1) Give it a little while longer, and that article will be deleted on the French site as well. We are an encyclopedia based on REAL Mario content, not Mario content that fans of the series have made.
 * 2) Supertroopa As Pokemon DP just mentioned this is supposed to be a site full of the content of the real Mario series of games created by Nintendo and it wouldn't work out with the articles full of the real content and the content by fans.
 * 3) There's going to be a Wiki for it. Join that even though it is not out yet it will be soon. :P
 * 4) Son of Suns - It's unofficial information, and not needed. Plus, I think the 'Shroom has a section devoted to unofficial Mario flash media.
 * 5) - Per all.
 * 6) Per All
 * 7) This wiki is about Mario games, comics, movies and official stuff. Unofficial stuff is a no.
 * 8) Snack No way. Just because it is popular and relativly well known, doesn't mean it belongs here. Put it on Fantendo or something.
 * 9) Walkazo and PP - Per all. Besides, there have been articles on fan movies in the past (i.e. Rise of the Mushroom Kingdom) and they all got deleted. Also, some stuff in the Flash movies might be a bit mature for the Wiki (RotMK had blood and gore, for example).
 * 10) huntercrunch Per SoS. This was proposed i assume only because you are a fan yourself. If it isn't official information, then it has no place here on the wiki.
 * 11) they are not official.
 * 12) no way, jose! It's nearly impossible to chronicle all fan series.
 * 13) It wood be pretty pointless and besides can't you put that on the fantendo
 * 14) Booster No. Even though I enjoy the series, fanworks aren't something we cover.
 * 15) Okay, I'm finally saying no to this one, just because I realized how much trouble there would be in determining which fan creations should be covered and which should not be.  Sorry, Arend...
 * 16) Sorry,Arend,but there must be THOUSANDS. And half of them are innapropriate. So I say no.
 * 17) Bad idea. If something like this got an article, even fanart artists would end up thinking they can make their own pages too, and like the post above me said, a lot of the stuff can get inappropiate sometimes. There's a lot of youngsters on cyberspace too, so they might get confused and think articles like these are official.
 * 18) This wiki is about official Nintendo/Mario info. Adding these would be like adding fan characters and places. Per everyone else, except TB with the fact that some are innapropriate.
 * 19) User:Girrrtacos No... All these articles are based on Nintendo.

Comments about this one
Arend, you should vote yourself.


 * Mcoolister: I think they were joking. I mean, did we get permission from Nintendo to make this site...and did we really need permission?


 * Nintendo and Sega own the copyrights to those characters and ideas. The fan videos were providing attribution to prevent copyright infringement.  They are not official sources.  We do the same thing here with our general disclaimer. -- Son of Suns


 * Oh thanks SoS for clearing that up.

Huntercrusher, I'm sure you know that people usually write about one topic over another because of personal preference. Just because a certain idea started as a result of preference should not be grounds for bashing it. I'm kind of on the fence about this... I'm not sure my vote would matter either way, though. 19:07, 15 October 2007 (EDT)
 * Shyguy: Those Comics are official Comics made by official companies. They belong here. Fan Flash series made by, well, fans, do not count as official!

Who was "add" voter #5? PP
 * It says "Shyguy27"

Sorry about the fifth "add" vote I submitted. I took it off.

DOES ANYONE KNOW THAT THERE IS GOING TO BE A WIKI FOR IT!!! JOIN IT. It will be on soon but not now so you just wait! OK!?!? Now end this proposal. And here's the link. It is on the Main Panel if you can't find it. Sheesh!!!

Whoa! 19 votes! This one has been voted on alot! PP
 * Actually its 20 now :P, Also Arend your reason to add it is because its on another wiki. So should we add all Fan stuff from Fantendo too? These Fan Flashes are Fan Fictions!
 * That raises an interesting point. Flash videos take time, skill and patience to create, but so do comix, fan art, and written fanfiction. If we include Flash series, people might start asking why only include one of many media and others might get offended and demand we include it all. We want to keep this site canonical, so we should try to keep all the fanon out or we could get swamped by it. - Walkazo

Videos For Articles
DO NOT ADD 8-12

I propose we add videos to articles such as Mario Party Mini Games so we can see what the mini games are actually like instead of having to imagine what it would be like.

Proposer: Deadline: Oct. 23, 2007, 19:00

Add Them

 * 1) Super Yoshi10 Reasons given above.
 * 2) That's such a good idea!
 * 3) We already have (my idea) but we can only use on userpages! Steve thinks that they have so bad quality but we put the videos on the articles but with links I don't see the difference!
 * 4) Yes. Not just mini-games, but videos for all sorts of articles. In fact, THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I'VE BEEN DOING TODAY (they're under a section I called "Have a Look!")! Check out my first one on the Super Mario Bros. article. And I'll keep on finding more if I wan't to. All you have to do to stop me is deny this proposal. You know, I was thinking of doing this proposal anyway, but instead, I'm making it happen.
 * 5) Glowsquid I think that these videos could be useful on article about obscure glitches or Beta Elements, I don't think we should link to Youtube on every pages thought.
 * 6) User:Nasakid Add them
 * 7) User:Gowser Yes, videos help
 * 8) Youtube links are used in the halopedia articles, why not here?

Don't Add Them

 * 1) The article already states what the Mini-game does. No need for videos. Besides, it would be VERY hard to upload movies.
 * 2) I have horribly slow internet, and webpages with movies would take way to long for my computer to load.
 * 3) We tried this long ago. Didn't work out so well.
 * 4) Walkazo - Per Shyguy27. And even though my computer's not slow all the time, movies eat up SO much memory: I wouldn't be able to see images after three pages with videos, and three pages after that, the computer itself would stop working right. Other people are bound to have similar problems...
 * 5) Per Walkazo
 * 6) Sorry SY10 but i hav to disagree because and the Help:Youtube thing it says that videos are only to be on user pages. It would be a good idea but like i said, only on user page.
 * 7) -Per DP. What's the point? This isn't a virtual reality video game.
 * 8) Per DP. It makes articles look less professional.
 * 9) - Links to (important) movies can be put on some pages, but we shouldn't flood the wiki with superflous, mostly low-res videos.
 * 10) I'm changing my vote based on DP and Uniju's comments regarding professionalism.  I could see linking working well in the cases I was talking about (trailers, etc.) Also, Youtube just sloooowed down a brand new computer in my house and reminded me just how finicky bandwidth was.  Sorry, guys. :(
 * 11) Per Uniju and Cobold.
 * 12) Per all

Comments
Super Yoshi, PLEASE vote yourself! Also, FOR GOODNESS SAKES!! You didn't add any vote sections to this Proposal! Yeesh, anyone would have enough common sense to add the vote sections!

No, he gets MY vote!

Pokemon DP:Never heard of the Youtube tag?

Arend: I think Pokemon DP was talking about the fact that Super Yoshi didn't add any section to vote. Glowsquid
 * Glowsquid: It doesn't matter, movies don't seem very much needed on articles. I would say use that Youtube tag only on Userpages.
 * I agree, but I was only pointing out that it wouldn't be "it would be VERY hard to upload movies", like you said.

Glowsquid

Who was Oppose voter #2? PP

Shroobario I think u put ur vote on the wrong 1 Just sayin

All we have to do is put links on the article to the video. It's so simple everyone can do it. Everyone SHOULD do it if they want to help out.

20:35, 16 October 2007 (EDT)

You could do something like this on the 'Shroom, like a Video of the Issue?

I don't care if it says we can only use youtube on user pages! Just change that law. Oh and Shy guy 27 Just because you have slow internet doesn't mean we all have a slow computer! The wiki is not just centered on you you know!
 * You can't simply change that rule. Porplemontage set that rule up for a reason! We can ONLY use the Youtube extension on Userpages, get used to it! And also, we must respect other Users computer issues. If they have a slow computer, that means Youtube extensions will slow down their computer and, yes, probably even freeze their computer. They will get REALLY mad at us for it. You are acting like a real brat.
 * DP, stop it with the flaming and the stuff. You activate Youtube by clicking first. Though I think videos should only be used on userpages and to show trailers of a game. 23:16, 17 October 2007 (EDT)

Mr Benio: You can't do anything untill the proposal is done, not before it's archived

Sorry baby, but I put so many on (about 82 articles) already that there is no need to continue pondering this proposal. I gotta keep it up. Why not just give in and help me out?

Okay, snooty. Until this thing is accepted (which it will be), I'll be putting them on a Word Document sheet. Happy?
 * You shouldn't be too confident about it. You can't just say that since you've started spamming the article with video, the proposal is pointless, it's the community that should decide that, we can remove these link if the proposal don't pass.

Glowsquid

I hope not, because I've been finding more, and my brother's been helping, too. It would be a shame and a complete waste of time if this did not pass. It must. If not...well, at least I'll look forward to doing some more for my "Gaming Acheivements" section on my homepage... As a matter of fact, I should stop for a while, for college has gotten harder, and I should be working on my clases a bit more. But, if it passes, I will continue every now and then (GO SUPER YOSHI! MAKE IT HAPPEN!).

This'll be the best thing to happen to these articles scince...writing them!!

Would the opposition change their minds if they might be able to put sites of videos on their homepage, hmmm?

I don't oppose the idea of putting Youtube video on page, but I tihnk we shouldn't put a Youtube link on every page. I think that the Youtube Video tag should be used for thing like obscure bugs and Beta Elements, I don't think we should link to Youtube in the Crystal King article when the battle is already described well in the article itself. Glowsquid

To quote DP (don't worry, I'm not going to be a brat and slam you or anything): "Porplemontage set that rule up for a reason! We can ONLY use the Youtube extension on Userpages, get used to it!" You went on to say that it was because of people with really slow computers would freeze up. Do you have another reason, too? The way you wrote it was a tad confusing is all. My Internet varies from time to time in regards to speed (never blazingly fast, mind you), but just using the Wiki seems to slow it down right now. Loading that sample YouTube video didn't do anything bad to it. 21:18, 21 October 2007 (EDT)
 * I am basically saying that it might cause problems to computers with slow internet. It also makes an article look unprofessional, as Uniju said.

At least people will get a better idea on what they look like! Not all screenshots say it all (especially some on this site)! Don't you think it would be better if they saw these things after reading the descriptioins so that they won't have a bad guess on what those things would look like (because I've had a fair share of that problem!)?
 * A lot of the time pictures would suffice in showing us what the thing looks like... Anyway, I'm sticking by my (and others') complaint that YouTube videos will slow down and crash plenty of computers (mine included). However, I think putting links to YouTube videos on the pages is a good idea. That way people who can view that stuff will be able to get a better understanding of the subject matter, and those of us who can't won't get penalized. - Walkazo

Uuummm... I think videos such as the fights with Very Gnawty shouldn't be linked since they are short and minor, also Doopliss's name being revealed is also unneeded
 * But it's all valid information, no matter how minor it is. The links to the video do us no harm, whether you use the links or not is up to you: Since you (Mr. Guy) feel the Very Gnawty and Doopliss videos are too minor to include, you can simply not view them. However, others might want to see them no matter how small they are, and if they're on the Internet we might-as-well put them on as links. - Walkazo

Pretty much, like above these things are already explained in the articles Mr. Guy

Walkazo's made his point. And unlike my proposals, this one won't be considered a waste of time. As far as I'm concerned, this proposal will be passed reguardless of the number of those against it. And I will later on put all those links that I saved up on thier proper articles. Face it you guys, Super Yoshi has won this. If we were still able to have user lists on our homepages, I would have added him on. Thank You.

No he hasn't, it's 8 to 12 votes, you just want Super Yoshi's side to win That's how proposals go
 * Mrbenio: Walkazo is a she.

You guys might want to start making a "video requested" template soon (and sorry about Walkazo there). Change your minds, guys! This is a great thing!


 * Do you think that you will win just because you want to win? Look how many people are voting against it! You will not win the vote, sorry to say.

You know, I started doing this just before the proposal was made. In fact, as I might have already said, I was going to propose this anyway. But it seemed that Super Yoshi had the same idea. So there (by the way, it's past 19:00. Have you guys made the verdict yet?).

HEY!!! You guys DO have videos in some of your articles!! I found some while browsing through Mario Kart 64 tracks! And now I remember seeing some others in more articles...none of witch were made by me or my brother! You can't hide this proposal now!


 * I'm VERY glad you brought that up. ;) (starts removing the video links)

Unoffical Music Articles
KEEP 1-3

We have articles on Music on this Wiki. Quite a few of them are official CD's released by Nintendo, or some Company associated with Nintendo. BUT! It also seems we have articles on music that were NOT put on official CD, aka, In-game songs and themes (an example being List of Songs in Super Smash Bros. Melee, which is listing the music tracks in the actual game, but NOT the music tracks on the Official CD). I propose we remove all In-game songs and themes, and keep only the music articles on official soundtracks that were released by a REAL Company.

Proposer: Pokemon DP Deadline: Oct. 24, 2007, 22:00

Remove all In-game songs and themes

 * 1) I am the proposer, and my reasons are given above.

Keep Them

 * 1) If the songs were ripped from the game, they are official.
 * 2) Per Plumber.
 * 3) Nintendo is an official company, obviously, so by your arguement we should be keeping them rather than removing them, as long as we note that the tracks in question did not appear on the official CD.  Just because something isn't perfect doesn't mean we can't post about them.  I mean, we have an article about Hotel Mario, but that wasn't affiliated with Nintendo even.  Nintendo's offical music should be in then, right?

Comments
I don't think we should completely get rid of them. There should be a track listing in the game's own article. -- Son of Suns
 * Heres a good compromise. Remove the lists, move them to the appropriate articles and replace the names with those from the official sound tracks. No official name? Then it's not on the list. -- Chris 14:00, 17 October 2007 (EDT)
 * We agree with SoS, the song's aren't officially named, but they are official. - Walkazo and PP
 * I'm not quite sure I understand what you are saying.
 * 1. List of Songs in Super Mario Kart, move all that crap to Super Mario Kart (including download link).
 * 2. If the name of those tracks can't be verified, add a citation needed tag next to it.
 * 3. Run through all the articles about published game OSTs. Track for SMK have a name on one of those albums? Use that one in the article instead of X Theme. -- Chris 01:36, 18 October 2007 (EDT)

DP: We just meant that the songs are conjectural, but still valid. It's a shame we can't get official names (same with all other conjectural information), but the info itself is still canonical and worthy of a place on the wiki. - Walkazo
 * OK, can we, instead, remove those In-Game articles and merge them with the actual game article? If so, you can completely ignore this Proposal.
 * But if an actual soundtrack has been released onto a CD, that article is kept, correct? -- Son of Suns
 * Tough call, I know how you want every named Mario-related thing to have an article, SoS, but how much could we really write about these songs? How long they are, what CDs and/or video games they're in, whose theme songs they are (if applicable), the actual lyrics... but what else? Maybe all the officially-named songs should be put in articles for the CDs they're released on (to make sure we don't end up with a bunch of stubs that get deleted). And as DP said, all the unnamed songs can just be part of the game articles. - Walkazo

"What Other Users Think Of Me Lists"
DO NOT REMOVE 11-7

These things are just dumb. We got rid of Cool User Lists, and these are only worse. As you can most likely see, they have caused nothing but bad, and flame wars. Some of these might be OK(Like Xzelion's), but others go over the limit(Like Pokemon DP's, even if they are all MY quotes. <_<). These are mostly just the depressed people trying to make themselves look more hated, anyway, *continues into a long rant about DP that would getting him ****ing banned if he actually said it*. Therefor, I propose that we ban these, as we did with the Cool User Lists(Which NEVER ACTUALLY CAUSED ANYTHING!).

Proposer: Uniju :D Deadline: Oct. 28, 2007, 15:00

Remove

 * 1) I am the proposer, and, blah, blah, blah...
 * 2) Just as bad as the cool users list.
 * 3) Same boat as Cool Users lists. If someone really wants to know about someones past, they can look in the contribution history.
 * 4) Is wrost then Cool user list and Hated User list (if they existed) make people think bad things of other users! Everyone has a bad point but you should just see the good ones!
 * 5) My vote is in responce to DP's staement that the Wiki has a right to know.  If you have an issue with another user that isn't publically on the Wiki, it deserves to remain private.  And really, why post it here just because an issue is related to the Wiki?  If it matters that much sysops should be contacted to resolve the issue.
 * 6) I agree with all of the users above
 * 7) Per Stumpers, strongly. It is not the wiki's business to know of every arguement someone has with somebody.

Keep

 * 1) Hey, if someone flames someone, the Wiki has a right to know about it! These lists show which people have flamed who, allowing them to get what they deserve when they flame. And, you only made this proposal because you are mad at me for adding all of your flames towards me onto my list. You coult end up becoming banned for what you wrote on this Proposal!
 * 2) Zakor1138 Just cause its for good intentions. So what? If you act like a lurdo everyone should know 'bout it.
 * 3) Glowsquid - See my comment below.
 * 4) I was against getting rid of cool user lists, and now people are still getting into flame wars without them. But i'm still against restricting stuff you can put on your userpage.
 * 5) Per Peachycakes, just because some might misuse it doesn't mean for me that nobody should be allowed to use it.
 * 6) User:Fly_Guy_2 Pokemon DP's right.
 * 7) - Put on your user page what you want. If there is flaming because of it, then ban the flaming. No reason to fight the cause, there are not too many incidents around.
 * 8) Not all these quotes are negative, i mean quotes like what Zach121 has is good, or funny ones like 3d's Waluigi and Petey stuff.
 * 9) Per all, Besides mine are only kept for humor. >.>
 * 10) Mr. Guy Per DP, thouugh I don't have one
 * 11) sure, some people add stupid flames, but some like putting funny qoutes or what some people think is good about them in their lists.

Comments
DP: -_-' Why do YOU ALWAYS THINK THAT MY REASONS ARE SELF-CENTERED? WHY THE H*** CAN'T YOU JUST DEAL WITH THE FACT THAT I'M NOT DOING THINGS FOR ONLY MYSELF!!!!!
 * Did I see some anger? It is the path to the dark side! Zakor1138
 * Whoa, whoa, whoa, calm down, Uniju. You continue like that, you will get in BIG trouble.

I think we should just change it to "Feedback". There should be no negative things. This wiki is not about pointing out if someone says something rude. Why can't people just ignore it?
 * If you flame someone, you should get in trouble for it. You shouldn't be able to get away with anything bad that you do.
 * Which is why we have Sysops, suspensions and bans. Making black-lists only adds to the problem. -- Chris 15:13, 24 October 2007 (EDT)

That's true, just don't overdo it. We all know about what happens if it happens a lot, even without quotes.

When I made this list, I had a purely humoristic goal in mind, I didn't try to make myself look hated and other non-sense. You are about the only one that take these lists seriously, and the only one to star flame war over them. As Zakor1138 said, if you act like an idiot, it's only natural for the other to know it. Glowsquid, and the cool user list DID cause my flame wars, check my archive if you don't believe it.

DP, I looked at your user page, and you posted countless censored f-bombs. If Uniju is going to get in trouble for what he posted above, and I posted them on my page wouldn't I be also using the language and the flaming? I thought we could only use those in quotes of Nintendo characters, etc., so how do we justify this? I'm not saying this because I think Uniju's comments are justified, by the way. I'm saying it because I want all of this anger stuff to get gone, quoted or freshly written. 01:22, 26 October 2007 (EDT)

i agree with PY.

Most are kept for only humor reasons, however, some are just kept to cause bad blood in the case of Pokemon DP. Therefore if they all stay, the bad blood intensifies, and if they leave, then the bad blood evaporates and we can find humor elsewhere. 08:30, 27 October 2007 (EDT)
 * Pokemon DP's page is also a really good example of the intensification. You can see Uniju's emotions flare as a result.  It makes me wonder if Uniju would have calmed down if the list wasn't there.  Personally, I like User peace and happiness and whatnot, so I hate flame wars.  If these just cause flame wars to last longer, why are we doing them?  12:39, 27 October 2007 (EDT)

Uh, this Proposal ended a while ago. :|
 * O rlly? Can I then beg of you to take down your list, not because you have to, but because you're a good, peace-loving person? *big blue eyes* You couldn't say no to this face, could you?  22:10, 30 October 2007 (EDT)
 * Because I barely have a nice side, no. In case you didn't catch that answer, I'll say it again. No.
 * Hmm... someone needs some virtual pie. Regardless, it's not my issue so I'm butting out of it.  22:24, 30 October 2007 (EDT)
 * Thank you. And, I hate pie. I prefer Pizza.

Paratroopa Page
DO NOT MERGE 5-2 I think Paratroopa and Red Paratroopa should be split into two articles because they're different. Who agrees?

Proposer: User:Fly_Guy_2 Deadline: October 29, 2007, 17:00

Support Split

 * 1) User:Fly_Guy_2 I am the proposer, blah blah blah.
 * 2) Paratroopa should be a disambiguation page that links to Red and Green Paratroopas.  We don't put Goomba and Gloomba on the same page, so I would support this split.

Oppose

 * 1) User:Mr. Guy There the same
 * 2) As Mr. Guy said, they are the exact same thing.
 * 3) lla rep (Per all)
 * 4) Walkazo If we split up Green and Red shelled Paratroopas we'd have to make new pages for the Yellow and Blue-shelled variations too. Then we'd have to do the same to the Koopa Troopa colour morphs to be conistant...
 * 5) Booster Not notable enough to warrant a split. What we have now works.

Comments
Umm, then why that red Koopa and normle Koopas toghther in one aarticle? Well that's your anser. Also Fly Guy, you've added some useles info o other pages
 * Pokémon DP, they are not exactly the same. In classical Mario platformers, Green Paratroopers cannot really fly, but merely jump around, and Red Paratroopas fly in the air. This is the same way in Super Smash Bros. Melee, by the way. - 05:23, 28 October 2007 (EDT)
 * "If we split up Green and Red shelled Paratroopas we'd have to make new pages for the Yellow and Blue-shelled variations too. Then we'd have to do the same to the Koopa Troopa colour morphs to be conistant..." (Quote from above...) What's so bad about that? Sure, it's work, but we're a Wiki!  "We write, fight, oh, yeah, that's right!"  17:08, 28 October 2007 (EDT)
 * The problem is that aside from their walking speeds there is no difference between blue and yellow Koopas except thier shell colour. All the differences between the various colours of Shells are already described on their respective pages (Red Shell, Yellow Shell, etc.), therefore, so why should we make 'another set of articles?. All it will do will get people frustrated at the number of tiny little pages they have to visit when they could have easiy read all the differences between the races on one Koopa Troopa page. Then there are the exceptions to the rule (like Parakarry and his light blue shell). Finally, you can look at the Koopa Troopa species from a biological point of view. For instance, there are three colour morphs of the Common Grackle, but in field guides they only have one article for the entire species, in which they describe (and picture) the different morphs. That one article includes just as much information as three differenet ones would have, only it was more effective in delivering that info in a clear and percise manner, making it easier to follow than three articles might be, making it better. We want to be a profesional Wiki, and what better way to acomplish this than to emulate the professionals. - Walkazo
 * Good point. I also just remembered that if you beat a Koopa out of his shell, he can enter a shell of a different color.  That doesn't change his species, though.  You win.  22:50, 29 October 2007 (EDT)
 * Wow, I didn't even think about Beach Koopas! Kudos to you! - Walkazo
 * Gracias... although it makes me feel like a huge nerd that I knew htat. 22:12, 30 October 2007 (EDT)
 * You think you're a nerd? I'm the one applying ornithological practices to classifying Koopas! It's actually one of my goals in life to come up with an evolutionary chain for all Koopa species and then come up with a scientific classification system complete with Latin names! Now that's nerdy! - Walkazo

Time Machines Page
SPLIT 9-0

The Time Machine page consists of three officially named (one being conjectural) Time Machines, all with significant content to have its own article. Also they effect gameplay (sorta).

Proposer: Deadline: October 29th, 17:00

Support Split

 * 1) Per Above
 * 2) Booster -- Three of them are officially named, and have different designs and functions.
 * 3) Walkazo - Per all.
 * 4) Dodoman - Per all (except Walkazo >_>).
 * 5) On one condition: see below.
 * 6) Per all.
 * 7) -They are from different games, and are for different things.
 * 8) Per all.
 * 9) MOP - And it is in the Gadd inventions list.

Comments
My vote stands as long as we can use the Time Machine page to discuss the concept of time machines... and we could do double duty by listing time machines on the article and making it a psudo-disambiguation page. Sound good? Of course, if you want to just make the article disambiguation until someone gets around to writing it, be my guest. 22:45, 22 October 2007 (EDT)
 * I agree, there is also an unnamed time machine appearing in this comic which could excellently be placed on the Time Machine page.
 * Both good ideas. And Dodoman: "except Walkazo"? Pourquoi?!? - Walkazo
 * Speaking of that comic, does anyone here speak German? 01:25, 26 October 2007 (EDT)


 * At least two users are from Germany and have wonderful English: Time Q and Grandy02. -- Son of Suns
 * I am from Germany... - 13:54, 26 October 2007 (EDT)
 * Good to know, Sos and Cobold! 12:40, 27 October 2007 (EDT)

Pie For Everyone
PIE FOR ALL 12-10 JOKE PROPOSAL, REJECTED

I was sifting through old files the other day, and I happen to think "What could make this job better?" Well, the obvious answer was pie.

So, I'm proposing that we have a selection of delicious pies available to any and all of our editors 24/7. Flavors include apple, cherry, blueberry and freedom (due to monitory constraints, it might be wise to limit ourselves to just those flavors). Further, these pies would be made and hand delivered by Wayoshi, using his, and I quote, "1337 wiki skillz".

Think about this for a moment. If out active users had a hot, fresh slice of grandmas straight from the oven pie hand delivered to them while they edit....well, just think of the high quality articles that we would gain. A full, satisfied stomach is a power force.

Proposer: Deadline: Nov. 3, 2007, 15:00

Delicious Pie

 * 1) Glowsquid As a beleiver of fascism, I know that the pie achieve greater control on the citizen and help create a better state. Glory to the pie!
 * 2) Per Ghost Jam XD
 * 3) I disagree with the pie idea but we could REWARD them some how....
 * 4) Gimmie, gimmie, *more*!  I love anything that enriches the commune.  Or the communism.  Whichever.
 * 5) -Pie is cool. I still don't understand this though.
 * 6) Snack - Back in '88, we didn't have the technology to hax0r pies through the intarwebz... These days, leading n00bs over at Wikipedia have developed this technology... But the proposal was thrown any since eveyone thought it was a joke... But the technology IS HERE, we just have to utilize it. If we implement this pie-hax0ring tech, we will be world famous! We could get our own Saturday morning cartoon!
 * 7) Jeah pie
 * 8) it's just a joke, but this is my style.
 * 9) Per Ghost Jam!
 * 10) Pi is good.
 * 11) Pie is better than Pi though.
 * 1) Pie is better than Pi though.

No Pie for You (AKA COMMUNISM)

 * 1) Son of Suns - This is pure nonsense. I also believe this proposal is so ridiculus, and I am voting for its removal.  And I am a communist so I guess I am in the right section.
 * 2) Walkazo - Per SoS (except I'm an anarchist, not a communist). I get that this a joke and I'm being a bit of a stick-in-the-mud, but the wiki is for creating professional articles about Mario. Leave the jokes for your Userpages.
 * 3) ...Did someone hack his account just to make a spammy proposal? <_<
 * 4) This is by far the most ridiculous, useless proposal i've ever seen.
 * 5) Virtual Pie = Totally worthless. -_-
 * 6) Booster -- Ugh.
 * 7) - I don't like pie. Give me milk!
 * 8) Per Master Crash and Son of Suns
 * 9) Per Uni...
 * 10) Waffles are better.

Comments
I vote for glasses of milk instead of pie...

...er, yes, what exactly are you trying to say? - 12:41, 29 October 2007 (EDT)


 * I was thinking that we could have a 'Pie Button' on the header bar. A user could simply click it when he/she wants pie. The button would set off an alarm on Wayoshi's computer, directing him to hax0r the pie. -- Chris 12:48, 29 October 2007 (EDT)

This proposal is perhap the most hilarious thing I ever saw here, good job. Glowsquid

What The heck is this supposed to mean? Pie?


 * Oh, for goodness sakes, this is the most ridiculous proposal I have ever seen! Why would you want to add Virtual Pie!?
 * Did any of you ever heard of something called "Tongue-in-c

heck humor"? Glowsquid

Did you ever hear of "Serious threads"? Serious threads are for serious business. Proposals are serious thread.

This is the last time I joke with you people. -_- -- Chris 17:40, 29 October 2007 (EDT)

LOL!..... you guys aren't gonna beat up each other are you?


 * ASPLOSION! The Pies go boom
 * Ok, nearly the last time.


 * You all don't seem to understand just how 1337 Wayoshi really is. He is so damn 1337 that he can actually hax0r a piece of pie, physically, through your computer screen. There is nothing virtual about it.


 * And I think it would be hilarious to leave a message on his talk page stating that the community has decided that he needs to start baking pies. -- Chris 17:45, 29 October 2007 (EDT)
 * The entire is stupid, anyway. Like Vruet said, Pie is a stupid idea, but Users should get a reward of some kind. Maybe something like what Wikipedia has.
 * I remember someone proposing Barnstars, but that didn't fly so well. -- Chris 14:47, 30 October 2007 (EDT)
 * Having a reward would be lame. If you actually want to do it, then a reward is not needed, and if you DON'T want to do it, no ones FORCING you to do it over the internet.
 * Wouldn't you like to get some respect from the community? It's the least we can do, really.  Seriously, man... you know you'd like it if Porple came over to your page and slapped on the Official Steve of Approval or whatnot.  I dunno... something clever, not like that.  22:45, 29 October 2007 (EDT)
 * No, it sounds like nothing but bragging rights.
 * Wouldn't being promoted to Patroller, Sysop or 'Crat be considered a bragging right, Uniju?
 * No, a Patroller, Sysops, or 'Crat actually does something. A template does NOT.
 * How is that NOT something to brag about? -- Chris 00:04, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

I wish people could have some fun.
 * Purple Yoshi: These Proposals are about SERIOUS issues, not joke issues. Want to make a joke like this, make it on your Userpage.
 * While is started as a joke, it does have a few serious applications, especially since other people have joined the argument. I agree that we should have some kind of user recognition for those who contribute the most (I'm partial to Master Crash's idea below).


 * DP, I'm going to ask you to lighten up a bit. I don't mean that as an insult or an attack. Just....take things in stride, that tends to be the rule of thumb around here. -- Chris 14:47, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

Instead of having pie, at the end of every year, there should be rewards for like:


 * The most contributant user
 * The nicest user
 * ETC

and get like a special userbox for these awards.

for instants, there should be a pic of a golden mario trophy, and on the side it says:

This user has been the most contributant user in 2007.

Didn't we already do the awards thing Master Crash? A couple users won user awards at the annual Mario Wiki awards. And isn't that gonna happen again next year? I guess I am confused, 'cause we have already have done user awards at the end of the year. -- Son of Suns Or maybe I'm wrong....any help?

People, there is NOTHING FUNNY about pie. This proposal is SERIOUS BUISNESS. Snack 17:24, 30 October 2007 (EDT)
 * I agree with Master Crash. And, SoS, even if we DO have User Awards on the Mario Wiki Awards, what's stopping us from giving out casual rewards?


 * Ummmm....nothing. I wasn't talking about casual awards though.  I was merely pointing out the wiki already does what Master Crash wants it to do (I think). -- Son of Suns
 * We had awards to games, characters, etc., but not to users. - 18:41, 30 October 2007 (EDT)
 * Case closed! We need User awards! Perhaps...


 * Nevermind then. And the lack of them does not mean we should have them.  I mean, we've had this discussion before, and we've turned down awards many times as to not cause pointless flaming over "he got an award and I didn't" and all that junk. -- Son of Suns
 * Oh, I don't mean voting who gets an award. I mean giving a User an award for a good job they did in a certain field on the Wiki.

I know what you mean DP. But that exact thing you just described has been shot down in the past for the potential of increased flaming between users. -- Son of Suns
 * OK, meh, it was worth a try to get awards here.

I cant believe that 11 voters are voting for pie, THIS IS A JOKE! PP


 * Whatever. It's not like anything will come of this proposal.  It will pass then nothing will happen.  And if we do add a pie function at the top of all pages, I will personally lead the boycott of the Super Mario Wiki. -- Son of Suns
 * sigh* Everyone get so heated up for nothing these days.

Glowsquid


 * A pie button at the top of the wiki is not "nothing". If this is a serious proposal, and that's what happens, this wiki will become a joke.  If this proposal is a joke, it should be removed. -- Son of Suns
 * Quite interestinly, we don't even have Wayoshi's word on this yet. According to the proposal, he will use his 1337ness to do that. Does he even agree? - 18:39, 31 October 2007 (EDT)


 * Well, IMO, the wiki lost any credibilty it might had with the whole "Wayoshi = Willy ZOMG!" thing.

Glowsquid

Regardless of what happens, I win. Simply because my proposal is getting Son of Sons all worked up. -- Chris 20:27, 31 October 2007 (EDT)


 * Just wait until I start moving all articles here to a new wiki. ;) -- Son of Suns

(:@ OH NOEZ!!!


 * SoS, allow me to help you move articles from here to a new Wiki. :P

( %@ AHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!

Discuss what goes on the Main Page
REFUSED 5-1

Today I finally took a look at the stuff featured on the Main Page, and saw this in "Did You Know?": "Ax Mummies are ax-wielding mummies [...]" Yeah... as elaborate as that is, I don't think it's absolutely neccessary for information like that to be on the first page people come across on our Wiki.

So, I'm proposing that we have weekly discussions on what kind of stuff makes it to the main page; this includes what's worthy of the news section, what quotes we should use, etc. etc. etc.

Proposer: Dodoman Deadline: Nov 3, 2007, 21:00

Yes to Discussions

 * 1) Dodo I'm the proposer, yada yada.

No to Discussions

 * 1) Son of Suns - That takes a lot of time. Anyone can change those main page boxes, so if something is wrong or is unneeded, you can simply change it.  You can also discuss what should be in those boxes on the template talk pages, in case their is a conflict.
 * 2) Walkazo - Per SoS and Wayoshi.
 * 3) - I excuse for my bad choices of Trivia items in this section. I guess it would be better if anyone except me would actually be working on it. This is not the case. Why discuss on it when you're not working?
 * 4) - Sometimes, it seems like there's so much politics that I don't want to touch things because I'm afraid of the reaction.  Please don't make the main page like that, too!  Besides, trivia is supposed to be about new articles, so there's not much to argue about.  Look at the recent changes, then edit.  BAM!
 * 5) - Per all.

Comments
I'm sure it was just a minor lazy mishap. Everything in Maintenance/Main Page has worked so far. 20:56, 28 October 2007 (EDT)

Special Mainpage
REJECTED 9-1

I think that the main page should be more holday wise like for instance, Halloween is coming and we can put the page full of Halloween colors and some pics created by user to go on the main page.

Proposer: Deadline: Nov. 3, 2007, 21:55

Put this on the page when holidays are coming up

 * 1) My reasons given above

Don't put this on the page when holdays are coming up

 * 1) Waste of time. Dumb idea anyway... N/O.
 * 2) I had to think about this one. But, sorry, we should try NOT to add Fanart to the Main Page. Also, it would be too much trouble to try and make the Main Page look different.
 * 3) Per all
 * 4) Alphaclaw no some people(not saying me) dont celebrate some holidays.
 * 5) Per all. It's still fine for you to create your own version of the Main Page, where you use the special templates and bookmark that. Noone's going to stop you to apply special colors to that.
 * 6) -Does that have to do with Mario? No!
 * 7) Thats what userpages are for.
 * 8) Walkazo - Per PY and Glowsquid.
 * 9) User:GreenYoshi No. The time spent doing that could be used to add or change things for the better of Mariowiki (pranksters, new edits, etc.)

Comments
I could see a special main-page for April Fool, but otherwise, that seem pretty useless. Glowsquid

Quotes?
ACCEPTED 12-7

Lately i've been searching around the wikis quotes, and have seen quotes like "whupee heeheeheehee!" when thats just a bunch of giberious and also something like AHHH!!! thats just someone yelling! should we get rid of these?

Proposer: Master Crash Deadline: Nov. 4, 2007, 22:00

Remove

 * 1) my Reason is given above
 * 2) Glowsquid I agree, quotes like "AHHHH!!!!" are useless and make the wiki look less professional.
 * 3) they are very useless quotes that make us seem like we well add any thing to articles.
 * 4) A perfect example of a good quote, can be seen on Snake's article. Quotes like "AHHHH!!!!" have no meaning, as Glowsquid says.
 * 5) Coincollector
 * 6) Zakor1138 'Nuff said.
 * 7) -Quotes are supposed to tell us about the character.
 * 8) - Quotes from the gibberish sounds from Superstar Saga are as useless as quotes saying "I'm the best", as there are a dozen of other characters with exactly the same or a very similar quote.
 * 9) per everyone above.
 * 10) User:Fly_Guy_2 We need better quotes, like Nastasia's.
 * 11) qoutes like "Yahoo!" and "Ameena pasta gumba ray bardo" don't belong either.
 * 12) Those aren't really even quotes, but rather should be considered noises that the character makes. They may be fun to some, though they're completely pointless. I say we should go as far as to remove quotes such as "Yoshi!", because really, it tells nothing of the actual character...

Keep

 * 1) DELETING QUOTES? They're lots of fun! C'mon, keep them!
 * 2) I havn't seen many of these useless quotes.
 * 3) I hav to agree wit Peachy and Arend and then it would be pretty pointless to have a Quote of the moment
 * 4) I don't see many of those here.
 * 5) Nasakid i agree with plums
 * 6) per every one
 * 7) Keep 'em off of the header if you must, but the fact is if you delete them totally you're removing information, which is kinda counteractive.

Comments
At the very least, they shouldn't be the lead-in quote. -- Son of Suns

I'm conflicted on this one. True, things like "Ahhh!" are a bit redundant in principle. But if you know the context it could have meaning. For instance, in one of the Mario Party games, Peach goes, "Booooo!" Alone that sounds like a pointless, generic utterance, but if you actually hear it, it's hilarious! All in all, I just can't decide which way to vote. - Walkazo


 * See, most of the point in the quote on the page is to show the personality of the character. So, unless the screams have something to do with the personality of the character, remove them. Example: Instead of having "Princess Peach!" as Peach's quote have "Oh? Did I win?" so we can see a bit about her personality...and stuff like that...
 * Definately get rid of them from the "main quote" thing, but can you leave them in the article? Check out Daisy's quote page for what I'm talking about.  22:49, 22 October 2007 (EDT)

Arend: I don't think you understand, this proposal won't delete ALL quotes, only boring and generic one like "AHHH!!!" or "I'm the best!'. Glowsquid

Well, the ones i was sorta talkin about was only stuff like: erto robartello berto, or AHH!!! or all that other junk.

A quote is suppose to describe the character/article as best as it can (see Snakes' page). If the random gibberish defines the character best it should stay, but if its just some useless quote cause you couldn't think of something else it should be replaced.

Exactly

Arend, King Mario, we are not saying to remove ALL quotes. We are only saying to remove worthless quotes, like "AHHHHH!!!". All quotes that actually MEAN something will be kept. Get it?

Oh, well I'm still putting it on keep

To Plums: If you don't really see any of them, why vote?

Recently on the MarioWiki...
DO NOT REMOVE 8-3

This section is the least updated on the Main Page, as there just isn't enough news to fill it with. Usually, there is only one section of news worth noting, and that always goes on the sitenotice.

Proposer: Deadline: Nov. 10, 2007, 20:00

Support

 * 1) Per me =)
 * 2) I agree.Its rarely updated and it says daisy and waluigi ar now featured articles when they have been FA's for ages
 * 3) Glowsquid - What Xzelion said.

Oppose

 * 1) I'd like to see more use from that section.  Also, we don't talk about sysops and other promotions on the notice bar.  New Pipe Projects, new nominations for F.A.'s, and all of that sort of stuff could be going up there, but it's not right now.  I think maybe what we need is more freedom to edit it.
 * 2) HA! Don't judge a section on the update history. It's a lot better than drudging through the Main page or asking someone else what's up.
 * 3) -It just has been forgotten. It's still an important part of the Main Page.
 * 4) - Per all, especially Stumpers.
 * 5) Maybe we could think about reducing it to one or two lines. But I'm against giving it up.
 * 6) Walkazo - Per all, as long as it's updated it could be valuable information to users. As Cobald said, it's not being used as much as it should be right now: we should fix it, not get rid of it.
 * 7) This section only says stuff about promotions or stuff like that, it should have more than just that.
 * 8) - I agree with 3dejong.

Comments
Maybe we should merge it with the Nintendo News section, since the Nintendo News section gets edited the most it, that way it could have six bullets instead of three.
 * That wouldn't work, Xze. News is about recent news on Nintendo, like new games, game releases, big news updates, etc. Recently is about the recent news on the Mario Wiki, like promotions, Shroom releases, the Improvement Drive, etc.
 * Um, and they can't be together, because? The improvement drive has failed, Promotions are rare, Shroom releases every month. There isn't much to put on the Recently template, however it shouldn't be just done away with. I don't really see a problem with them being together.

I dont know what i agree with(though i think i disagree, because it is good info), but it isnt getting changes like it says The Shroom Issue VIII has been released, but Issue IX has been released, it should get updated more.
 * Too true. But as Cobald said, we need to have more freedom in changing it. For instance, I'd change the Shroom thing but the fact that's it's on the Main Page is a bit daunting. I dunno, I need to learn more about the "do"s and "don't"s around here... Anyway, I don't think "Recently" should be merged with "News"; as DP said, "News" is about actual Nintendo stuff and "Recently" is just Wiki stuff. It's like sugar and salt: they look similar, but mixing them together's a mistake. Sure there's not too much to put in "Recently" but that can be remedied by removing one bullet, as Time Q suggested. - Walkazo

Planets
MERGE 12-0

I propose all planets from Super Mario Galaxy be merged into the respective galaxy article, and the information about the planet made into a subsection of the article. That will allow for fewer articles while still keeping information about the planets.

Proposer: User:TheGreatBlockyBoo Deadline: November 10, 2007, 20:00

Support Merge

 * 1) Per above reasons
 * 2) - Per TheGreatBlockyBoo.
 * 3) Per All
 * 4) Absolutely.  There aren't names for most of those planets, and Galaxies will just be like Categories if we can't write about their planets on them.
 * 5) Walkazo - Per All.
 * 6) User:Alphaclaw11 - Per all and nice idea by the way.
 * 7) user:Inanimate - Per all. Also, if we do this, try getting images of each planet so people can see.
 * 8) Per all, and it was my idea to get rid of those articles.
 * 9) User:MasterKoopa Its just basic, its like deciding wether or not to make seperate articles for Mario and all of it's subdivisions or not. I tootally agree
 * 10) Mariofanical I like it. It's so much better than having several short articles about small subjects which most names are conjectural. Oh and the Lava Planet is actually the Melty Molten Galaxy. So far, everyone supports the merge.
 * 11) Coincollector See my comment below.
 * 12) - Per all, a very good idea.  Its only common sense that you should make one large article with all the information someone's looking for.

Comments
Uh, we have images of most. Also, if we do this, we'll have to get info on ALL the planets of the galaxy. That reminds me. Can someone identify the galaxies for the planets without merge templates? TheGreatBlockyBoo 16:48, 6 November 2007 (EST)
 * Also, for the sections of the article, we'll have to use the conjectural names. Okay? TheGreatBlockyBoo 19:25, 6 November 2007 (EST)
 * It seems that some galaxies' articles talk as if they were planets exactly.

Mariofanical So do you support the merge? It is possible that the planet is the galaxy or that the planet is the center or centre of the galaxy, with other smaller planets orbiting.

So, anyone planning to get info? TheGreatBlockyBoo 20:09, 8 November 2007 (EST)
 * Also, would it be okay to look at the footage of levels and create new planets as sections? TheGreatBlockyBoo 20:12, 8 November 2007 (EST)

I guess I'll do that when the game comes out on November 12, 2007. I've seen many more planets already, from a youtube user called TyndelM
 * Considering superflous Super Mario Galaxy articles, I'd also like to merge the levels (=episodes) of the galaxies into their articles. They are simply too short, we don't have articles on each Super Mario 64 star or each Super Mario Sunshine episode either. - 07:34, 10 November 2007 (EST)

Alright, I'll research all planets for merger and addition. Without SMG, it'll take a while...

Cosmic Koopa to Mecha Koopa
MERGE 7-0

The following reasons are: therefore, the article must merge with Mecha Koopa
 * 1) It shows an image that is found also in Mecha Koopa article.
 * 2) Its name is conjectural.

Proposer: Deadline: November 11, 2007, 15:00

Support

 * 1) Coincollector
 * 2) She's always right! and this makes alot of sense.
 * 3) I agree with Coincollector, they should be merged.
 * 4) Walkazo - The picture from the Mecha Koopa article convinced me "Cosmic Koopas" aren't a seperate species like their article claims. So yeah, definitely merge them (and by "merge", I mean scrap the conjectural article).
 * CC, great find. I have a feeling this is only one of many articles to get merged.  I'd like to see an end to the whole "cosmic" fad actually.
 * 1) Per Stumpers, and probably per the others whose comments I did not bother to read. >_>
 * 2) Inanimate They are the same thing, per all.

Comment
}}
 * Compare both images, the left it's found in Mecha Koopa article, and the right from Cosmic Koopa article.

Condor
REJECTED 8-3

DP and I waged a brief war on the talk page for the Condor's qualifying for an article. I say yes, he says no. In any case... here is a proposal and whatnot.

Proposer: Dodoman (or, depending on how ya look at it, Pokemon_DP Deadline: Nov. 14, 2007, 17:00

Remove the Condor!

 * 1) It is too minor. It barely effects gameplay; only appearing in Target Smash in Super Smash Bros. Melee, and only appearing as the Ice Climbers battle entrance in Super Smash Bros. Brawl. We should not be making articles on every last minor character in Super Smash Bros.
 * 2) - Merge with Break the Targets!, he's too minor for an extra (conjectural!) article.
 * 3) Everything minor is not enough for an article, such as the deleted "Helicoptor Pack"

Keep the Condor!

 * 1) Betcha never saw someone against their proposal.
 * 2) Its in Super Smash Bros. Brawl, so we must have it. Thats what DP always says.
 * 3) Glowsquid If we have an article on freaking Old Man Skoo, a character who was only mentioned once in a game and didn't affect the storyline nor the gameplay. I think Condor, who actually affect gameplay, have enough right to have an article.
 * 4) Walkazo - Per Glowsquid; we have articles on tonnes of other random little things, why is Condor any worse?
 * 5) Caith_Sith - I think that all the characters appeared in Mario games can have his own articles; that means Pokémon, Assist Troppy and, in the same way, that Condor or the Polar Bear, for example.--Caith Sith 16:32, 9 November 2007 (EST)
 * 6) Per Caith
 * 7) Isn't this Wiki where I post all information that Wikipedia's goons find too minor?  And when did minimizing and removing information become our motus aparandi around here?  It's a character who appears, it gets an article.  I believe that the Importance Policy states, "Cross-overs... are of the lowest focus to this wiki... [but] "there are no article limits for any area of focus."  If you wish to get rid of the Condor, you'll need to alter the policy, even if it is just to add the line, "except for the Condor, who doesn't get an article." But that's pretty flimsy.  Back to my hiatus!
 * 8) Gowser--Two appearences in seperate games, it notable.
 * 9) FLY_GUY_ This is way more major than Nibble-Ums yet we have an article for Francis's snack.

Comments
Uniju: I never say that. When have I said that?
 * Thats always your general attitude about SSB info.
 * OK, so, you have now resorted to making up stuff to flame me? If I really thought everything on SSB should be made, I would've made articles on Grabs and Clones LONG ago.
 * Erm, but, the clones already have articles.

Unless you meant something else. The Unwitty
 * I don't think he meant the playable characters who are clones of others, but rather creatures which are simply called "Clones". Also, I think the information on the Condor would fit best in a remark on the Break the Targets! article. - 10:27, 8 November 2007 (EST)
 * THANK YOU, COBOLD! He read my mind! :O


 * Erm, what do we do with this proposal now? Just wait for it to be archived?

What happens now with the other minor Super Smash Bros characters?...--Caith Sith 19:53, 16 November 2007 (EST)

They're the same
 * How is Helicopter Pack minor? It's a weapon used by the Koopalings, right?  ...or is it just unimportant because it's in Hotel Mario?  If so, I hope you know it has more right to be here than any item enemy attack in the Smash Bros. series and make judgements accordingly.  20:51, 19 November 2007 (EST)

It's minor and doesn't have an official name


 * Actually his name IS officially "Condor" as stated by the official site.

So...he's not conjecture.

No, it's the Helicopter Pack article!

You guys do know that this proposal is long over, right? >_>
 * Ever think of archiving it? -_- --

Article about "Implied" subject (2nd nomination.)
ACCEPTED 7-3

As some of you may know, the wiki have quite a few articles about "Implied" subject, AKA elements that don't actually appear in a game and is only mentioned in passing. In my opinion, most of those implied subject doesnt' deserve to have their own article.

This is an example what the average implied article look like:

"(Name of the page.) is an organisation/character/item briefly mentioned in (Insert name of game here.)

It is unknow what (name of the page) do or if it actually exist, however (Insert ridiculous speculation based on the name of the subject.)"

Of course, not every implied articles are like that, but a good chunk of them are. Most of those implied subject are as major as say, a Mario Kart sponsors, while the sponsor's are mere thrownaway background imagery, the implied are (most of the times) thrownaway mention in a dialogue. Heck, the various Trophy in Super Smash Bros. Melee could be considered more major, since they have backstory info and a representation of what it's talking about, while the average implied is an one-time mention.

The goal of this proposal is to merge these articles in various list (More on that later.), this is not actually the first proposal against those Implied articles, the reason the first proposal failed (In my opinion) is because it was sugested that we should merge EVERY implied into one big page instead of various smaller list, most pointed out that this page would have been too big, and I agree. However, in this proposal, the implied wouldn't be merged into one single page, but rather into various smaller list divided by subject (List of Item implied to exist, List of organisation implied to exist and so on.). Of course, not every implied would be merged, some such as the Pixl Queen and Scarlette actually have efect of the plot, and thus, still would have their own articles. Minor implied deseve a mention, but not a full-blown articles, if we allow guys like Old Man Skoo to have an article, we should also create seperate pages for every Mario Kart sponsor out there.

Proposer: Glowsquid Deadline: Nov 15, 2007, 18:00

Merge

 * 1) Glowsquid - Do you think I would vote against my own proposal?
 * 2) As I used to say, Implied characters don't deserve articles. Unless it is something like Princess Eclair, which has a huge amount of information from Luigi's adventure, as well as not going TOO speculative.
 * 3) Per All
 * 4) Walkazo - Per all.
 * 5) Per two guys who say "Per all"
 * 6) The non-stub articles should have there own.
 * 7) - Per Glowsquid.

Oppose Merge

 * 1) I'm not hot about this idea because you don't specify enough.  What's going to be merged and what won't be?  If you gave us a list, I'd be more willing to agree with you.  I'm also worried about personal preference getting in the way of all this.
 * 2) If it's mentioned, it deserves an article.
 * 3) FLY_GUY_ Per Plums.

Comments
Stumper: Uh.... To make it short, let's say that every implied that is mentioned more than once (Like Princess Eclair) or have effect on the plot (Like Scarlette) could still have their own articles. Only random one-time mention (Like Old Man Skoo) should get merged. Glowsquid
 * Ok, that's a little better. Still, there's a tendency for the quality of articles merged into a table to plummet.  Take a look at any of them, especially the non secuitor-ally named "Game Sightings" or things like the glossary.  I think people are afraid of editing or the hardcore editors just don't want to "waste time" on something that's accepted as minor by the Wiki of minor topics.  It just makes it seem low.
 * Oh, and the above comment (Crash) about non-stub articles: basing the importance given to something based on its current article length is a bad idea. We're constantly growing, after all.  Some game articles (Mario Tennis: Power Tour) are shorter than attack articles (Peach Blossom), but Power Tour is much more notable.  The same applies to the implied articles but to a lesser extent.  As soon as you merge, no one will expand, even if it has more information.
 * The problem is, unlike Power Tour, the implied articles can barely be expanded, they are mentioned once by some character, and are never heard from again. The only reason most implied are not one-liner is that they are filled with ridiculous speculation (See Old-Man Skoo, which go on ridiculous lenght to speculate that the character *might* be a Koopa simply because his name have Koo in it.). There's no real way of improving them past grammatical correction. And I never said they would be merge into a table (Hardly see the point of having one.) but rather in a simple list page.


 * Plumber: OK, do you think we should split the article about the Mario Kart Sponsors too?
 * Glowsquid
 * I remember articles about characters whose existance isn't even proven, like Elizagoom. That's merged already, and so should be the rest of these kind of articles with no proof. Other stuff, like the Waffle Kingdom and its articles, however, can stay. Is there an option in the poll to vote for that? - 06:55, 14 November 2007 (EST)
 * Ahem, I stated in the first post that implied that hve enough informations to stand on theirs own (Like The Waffle Kindgom Guys) or are actuallly revellant to the plot (Like Scarlette ) could still have theirs onw articles. Only random throwaway one-time mention like WIN-tendo or Breadward should be merged.

Glowsquid
 * I'm somewhat neutral on the idea at the moment. If we do merge them, I think we should make seperate articles for what the implied things are, and what game they were mentioned in (ex. "List of Implied Items in Super Paper Mario").
 * Meh, if we did a separate list of implied for each games, we would end up with hundred of tiny lists that couldn't be expanded, I think "List of Implied Items" work just fine.

Glowsquid

Ashley & Red (Revisit)
ACCEPTED 7-0

As per this proposal, the article Ashley and Red must be split into to separate articles.

Aside from not a single person who voted on the proposal taking steps to follow through, read the article. There just isn't enough information on the character Red to create anything substantial. It would result in two articles being created, one being virtually unchanged, the other being little more than a stub, resulting in a deletion or a proposal for merging. -OR- Two articles being created, both nearly identically in content, resulting in a redirect or proposal for merging.

Until the character of Red starts to play a bigger role, I say we leave well enough alone.

Proposer: Ghost Jam Deadline: Nov. 29, 2007, 17:00

Overturn Previous Proposal

 * 1) I am the proposer and my reasons are listed above.
 * 2) Per Ghostly Jam
 * 3) Per Traffic Jam. I mean, Ghost Jam. =P
 * 4) Per the Jam of Ghosts.
 * 5) Red's as worthy of an article as "Gullible Soup". >_>
 * 6) Glitchman - Per Ghost Jam.
 * 7) Walkazo - Yeah, I voted to split the articles last time but Ghost Jam has a point about there not being enough information to make it worth while...

Continue with the split

 * 1) Glowsquid Yeah.... No one took the time to split thee page, but ti still say it should be split. Red have different abbilities, a different personnality (He have more speaking lines than Ashley, infact.) presently, the Ashley page doesn't disccus this, but this could be changed with the split. Sorry for my lazyness...
 * 2) You want someone to split it?  Fine.  No promises, as today is Thanksgiving.  I probably only have five minutes, but I'll do what I can... ASAP. After trying to write the Red article, I changed my mind.

Comments
Glowsquid: Is there enough unposted information to make a Red article at least a full fourth of the size of the current article (not including templates)? If yes, and it can be proven, I'll pull this proposal. Stumpers: My issue isn't with the the article not being split (in fact, that's a whole 'nother matter). My issue is with a split just not being practical based on the information we have. -- Chris 13:47, 22 November 2007 (EST)
 * Ah, but you yourself said that we don't yet have enough information. Wouldn't you rather have a good, established platform now when that infromation does come?  Having a platform let's people feel like they can easily edit.  Just gimme some time to show you.  I've already started, but Christmas decorating pulled me away! :)  19:53, 23 November 2007 (EST)
 * Now you're just splitting hairs. We don't yet have enough information on Wario's mother. Shouldn't be have a good, established platform for when the information becomes available? This line of thinking will leave us with a never ending ocean of stubs. If there is sufficient information to create an article about Red, that isn't a stub, then you have an argument. At the moment, however, I don't see how it's possible. -- Chris 21:30, 23 November 2007 (EST)
 * Well, I didn't mention Wario's Mother and I don't see how I'm splitting hairs. You'll remember one of the points you made in your proposal was that no one actually made the article, but then said "that's a whole 'nother matter." Long story short, I'm very confused about what's going on.  You want something saying that the article that would make "Ashley and Red" a complete article that doesn't need to be split?  Fair enough, but I don't understand why you wanted it.  I wouldn't have written the Red article (it's not posted yet) if you hadn't put this up... gah!  You guys just do whatever you want.  I'm done.  I only like to write anyway. :)  15:54, 25 November 2007 (EST)  Mmm... and just cause it will bug me if I don't say this... an implied character is not the same as a defined, major character, obviously.  I know, it was just an example.
 * My issue is with the split, which I fell is unnecessary, to be a requirement. The fact that the people who should have done it didn't is a completely different matter for a completely different proposal (I believe there is currently a discussion about it on Talk:Main_Page).
 * As for the split, you know how things work around here. When a proposal is passed, it essentially becomes a rule that must be followed. By that rule, Ashley and Red still needs to be split. I feel that there is no point given that there isn't enough information on Red to warrant two articles. So, following the trend, I created this proposal to overturn the previous one, making the previous proposal null.
 * I say that you're splitting hairs because you're using the 'other stuff exists' argument. Bridges aren't built without a foundation, societies aren't formed without an economic base, water isn't hydrated with a missing oxygen molecule and wiki articles aren't posted without proper information. -- Chris 20:17, 27 November 2007 (EST)
 * I'm going to have to drop my point just because that was so outrageously amazing. Also, I tried writing the Red article, and gave up for that reason.  You'll note that I recently did up the Mario and Luigi's Parents article... and didn't split it.  CHANGE OF HEART!  W00T!  22:51, 27 November 2007 (EST)

Rename Function
ACCEPTED 23-2

I am tired of seeing users have name changes at will. This is a privilege, not a toy, and I definitely feel like it is being abused by many (e.g. "3dejong" to "3Dejong" is a complete waste, as well as switching back to an original username after realizing the name change was not likable, among other things). It is also extra unnecessary work for the bureaucrats to be moving all of your userspace pages with each change you make.

Therefore I say we have these limits as an official policy:
 * Each user may only change their name twice a year.
 * A get-back counts as two renames. So going from SM97 to Viper and back to SM97 wastes your rename privilege for the year. All of you should be 100% sure of your name change, anyways.
 * Minor changes such as (de)capitalization of letter(s) and addition or removal of digit(s) are not allowed.

If this goes through the policy will be in effect starting asap. Another change will be an official request page at Changing username (thanks Steve for showing me this example).

Proposer: Deadline: 20:00, 30 Nov

Limit Name Changes

 * 1) – currently there are no rules on renames, which has led to abuse and excessiveness. These limits are very reasonable, IMO.
 * 2) Per Wayo, there's been some VERY minor name changes
 * 3) Per Wayoshi. Some wikis don't even have user rename...
 * 4) Per Wayo. It may just be that I have never changed my name, but I find that these limits are easy to follow and understand. If some of these horror stories are true (Which I have to believe they are, considering they're coming from an ex-'Crat), it seems like these name changes are causing a lot of unwanted stress to 'Crats.
 * 5) Per Wayo.
 * 6) - per all.
 * 7) - Per Wayoshi. Seriously, it gets annoying when Users change their Usernames too often. It is a big hastle on the Userpedia as well, but more of a hastle to the busy 'Crat's who have more important stuff to take care of.
 * 8) It doesn't even matter what username you have, sometimes I think of names better than Plumber, but it's too much of a waste to change.
 * 9) Per Wayoshi.
 * 10) Moogle. >_>
 * 11) per all.
 * 12) Per Wayoshi and also it must be annyoing for all those awesome sysops to change alot of usernames. They have MUCH more important stuff to do than change names.
 * 13) Per all and Per Brother. I think my name change was useless aswell. Just placing "Teh" infront of my name...
 * 14) Walkazo and PP - Per all. Name changes are fun for some, confusing for all.
 * 15) User:Imperialscouts Limit them: per above.
 * 16) InfectedShroom. Per everyone. They hardly ever allowed name changes at Nsider...
 * 17) It's a waste of time for the crats plus it counfuses the othere users when someone changes there name to many times.
 * I, personally, don't care about which user changes his user name how often. But if it's that much work for the sysops, it should be limited. And Wayoshi's rules sound reasonable.
 * 1) per all
 * 2) Per all.
 * 3) Good idea, would not have to be worked on faith, as some users would still try to change their names all the time.
 * 4) I only want to change my name once anyway.
 * 5) well, ill never change my name it seems rly good... BUT WHAT A WASTE OF TIME MY GOD IF U WANNA CHANGE YER NAME AT LEAST MAKE ANOTHER ACCOUNT ON MARIOWIKI

No Limit on Renames

 * 1) FLY_GUY_2 I feel that you should have no limit, yet the name changes must be Major (ie. Paper Luigi DS-Master Crash) Not minor (ie. 3dejong-3Dejong) or you will not be able to change at all.
 * 2) HyperToad What the crap! This is stupid, I had to change my name from Gowser to HyperToad, I thought about it, and I did. Why does everyone always care about what other people do? This is absolutely retarded.

Comments
It seems like it would be less work to just ban name changes and make page moves a sysops only function. -- Chris 21:24, 23 November 2007 (EST)

LOL, I remebered when Smiddle told 3D to make major name changes, not just chainging a letter Meh name:Lario to Mr. Guy

Ghost Jam, I think name changes are OK as a change from the norm, something fresh, just not excessively. Also, I don't understand how the 'move' right restriction applies to this proposal. 22:51, 23 November 2007 (EST)
 * I call it killing two Condors with one mushroom block. -- Chris 00:09, 24 November 2007 (EST)


 * Steals quote*Fly Guy 2

HyperShroom: Huh? To change your name you need to have a 'Crat do it. And a 'Crat needs to move the user page, user talk page, and user sub pages.

Hypertoad: As Uniju said, only Bureaucrats can rename users. While most name change are quickly done, I remmember there was an user who asked for a name change and had a whooping total of 19 userpages and sub-pages, all of which needed to be moved independantly. And also, the older name of all of these pages had to be redirected to the newer name so there wouldn't be uneeded red link on older pages. I think this proposal was created so there wouldn't be less of this kind of work for the Bureaucrats. Blitzwing
 * It also becomes difficult to find out who is who with this permanent nick changes around. *looks at the user of the above comment* - 09:11, 29 November 2007 (EST)

Minor NPC's
ACCEPTED 3-2

A while back, I remember some users that created a "Minor NPC" Template. I don't know if it's still active, but I don't think it should be. Articles about extremly minor NPC's, with conjecture names like Suscpicious Doogan, do not deserve articles. However, we need a way to mention them. What I am proposing is an article describing, in as much detail as possible, the unnamed minor NPC from various mario games (The RPG's mainly, but Super Mario Sunshine had a lot too). This could be one huge archive, or it could be seperated into different sections. Any oppositions?

Proposer Ultimatetoad Deadline November 30, 2007, 20:00

Support

 * 1) Ultimatetoad(oops)
 * 2) Walkazo - Sounds good, though you might wanna mention NPC stands for Non-Playable Characters for those us who aren't slang-savvy.
 * 3) I was just thinking we needed something like this.  I can't help you with it, but I'll support you in this way.

Oppose

 * 1) - Too short articles are banned by current rules already. I do not think it will do much good merging guys from different games in a single article. How do you define a minor character? Is Goomther one? Larson, who appears in a Trouble Center quest? Charlieton, who's optional to talk to, but is major in the Pit of 100 Trials? You cannot decide really. Only conjeturally named articles should be limited to the most important ones.
 * 2) Caith Sith Per Cobold

Comments
You are not supporting yourself, Ultimatetoad? - 07:55, 24 November 2007 (EST)
 * Once again, the question arises: Who do you count as too minor? Everyone with a conjectural name? I do not think so. I also don't think we should mix up characters from different games into the same article list. - 11:09, 27 November 2007 (EST)
 * Good point. If this passes the "Minor Conjecturally-Named Non-Playable Character" article will have to be split up into sections for each RPG. - Walkazo
 * That was what I was thinking of when I voted for this. Either that or separate articles.  In responce to your question, Cobold, I would say that each "potentially minor" character like Goomther or Charliaton should get an entry, and a template:main placed in the entry, but to delete the old article?  I wouldn't advise it.  Ultimatetoad, if you want to do that count me out.  I'm hoping just for a list of those characters, with links where available.  So... for example someone like Peach would be in the M&L:SS section in my perfect list here, but I wouldn't want her article deleted, obviously.  22:49, 27 November 2007 (EST)

Poll of the week
DO NOT ADD 5-1

At first I found the Quote of the moment interesting but now it's boring, rarely you find a cool quote. I asked Steve to add, with that we could make a poll for each week and put in the place of quote of the moment! The results could be archived.

Proposer: Deadline: Dec 2, 2007, 20:00

Support

 * 1) I'm the You-Know-Who and my You-Know-What are given You-Know-Where

Oppose

 * 1) Those belong on the forums
 * 2) - Per Mr. Guy.
 * 3) – per all. Remember we have several guests everyday each of whom are probably intrigued by the randomquote generator, as a member you must live with it. In fact usually I go straight to RC...
 * 4) Walkazo - Per all. If you don't like the quotes, don't read 'em.
 * 5) Per All, except Cobold, who already Per'd someone. =P

Comments
When first I saw Random Quote I also liked but it get boring after a time... It would better something like featured Quote.

I am not sure what you mean, but we should have a poll like favorite mario character Mario, Luigi, Yoshi, Peach. Like on nintendo's site.