MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/5



Mario Info
REJECTED 6-2

It seems we have a rule that we cannot have Non-Mario info on pages for characters/places/items from other series', like Super Sonic or Zelda. However, we should be able to give at least a short back story of what happened in other games, doing so would make a lot of the articles make a lot more sense to viewers who are not fans of that series. I propose that we should be able to do this, AND include some images from previous Non-Mario games where the Place/Item/Character appeared(This may include some articles for things that would not get an article because they are from another series, even if they are shown/implied in a Mario game).
 * Proposer: Uniju :D
 * Deadline: 20:00, Oct. 19

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Support

 * 1) I am the proposer, and my reasons are given above.
 * 23:20, 17 October 2007 (EDT) I agree with Uniju.

Oppose

 * 1) Were not allowed at first, so I agree with the old rule
 * 2) We already provide a brief backstory on the character. VERY brief summaries are allowed, and have already been used. Also, we should only provide Images from Mario-based games (The Cameos articles excluded).
 * 3)  Per DP
 * 4) Son of Suns - We should only provide info that appears in Mario games. We don't want this becoming a general Nintendo/video game wiki.  Links should be provided to Wikipedia and other video game wikis so users can find more info about a non-Mario subject.
 * 5) Non-Mario related character articles should only list information that is relevant to said character being included in the Mario Wiki. Other information, such as a brief rundown of Zelda's history, would be out of place. Please see further comments below.
 * 6) - For Smash Bros. characters, the trophies of them and trophies of other elements of their series should provide enough story to put together.

Comments
Mr. Guy, you don't agree because an existing rule says otherwise? Thats the reason this is a proposal, and I don't think thats a valid reason. -_-'
 * And DP: Like I said in the proposal, most people who are NOT fans of that series will need to haunt down info from other places to understand any of it. So we should be able to show more info than we do, and theres nothing about Sonic Adventure on the Sonic article, or Ocarina of Time on the Zelda article, its against the rules to add that info.

I see Sonic as an exception to the rule. Sonic and Mario have a non-game rivalry that started way back in 1992. That might be something to place an article about. -- Chris 04:10, 13 October 2007 (EDT)

In theory this proposal sounds like a good idea. But as everyonme else has said, this is Super Mario Wiki. We don't need to know what happened in Ocarina of Time to understand Zelda and Links' role in the Marioverse. And as Cobald said, for Super Smash. Bros. characters the trophies are enough to understand some stuff about thier personalities and some aspects of their personal history (Link is brave, Link saves Zelda a lot, etc.). If people want to find out more, the Internet's a big place, and it's not our job to tell people about Zelda or Earthbound or whatever, just Mario. - Walkazo
 * A line could be added at the end of a non-Mario characters article linking to Wikipedia or whatever series specific wiki is available. -- [[Image:Shyghost.PNG]]Chris[[Image:Shyghost.PNG]] 13:38, 13 October 2007 (EDT)
 * I see where you're coming from, Uniju. We should provide information to an extent.  Making a page as dedicated as Mario for example would be going overboard, obviously.  I think we're pretty good as it is now. :3  We should link to other Wikis, though.  How about one link to Wikipedia and one link to a specialty Wiki using the same format as Uncyclopedia?  Here's a couple of good Wikis:

00:21, 15 October 2007 (EDT)
 * Zelda Wiki from Wikia
 * Animal Crossing from Wikia <--yes, Uniju, I am being biased! You gotta admit that the two of us can carry that Wiki, though.  :D
 * Bulbapedia... whatever their URL is.
 * Might I add, there is also a Nintendo Wiki.
 * This seems like a good place to make a note about crosslinking. IE: Mario links to Mario, which also has a link back to Mario. This keeps the flow of information fresh. -- [[Image:Shyghost.PNG]]Chris[[Image:Shyghost.PNG]] 15:59, 16 October 2007 (EDT)
 * That would be great if Wikipedia would allow it. I've seen links to us get deleted, though.  Even though we rock socks.  20:29, 17 October 2007 (EDT)

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Add Fan Flash Series
REJECTED 19-4

I've seen on Wikipedia an Super Mario Bros. Z article. Now it's deleted, but on another language (French for example), that article is still there. I think popular fan flash series, such as Super Mario Bros. Z shall be added. But what do YOU think? Shall we add them or not?

Proposer: Deadline: Sunday, October 21, 15:00 (EDT)

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ADD THEM!!!!

 * 1) I'm Proposer
 * 2) Yes it's a popular cartoon and It has to do with Mario, so I don't see why not. User:Gowser
 * 3) Yes add them! I remember in one of the episodes credits it said that they got permission by Nintendo and Sega.-Mcoolister
 * 4) It would be nice to add an article based on a popular web show. But sadly, as I can tell from the amount of posts below, I can say, no. Sorry SMBZ lovers. =( Superjustin 18:48, 15 October 2007 (EDT)

Don't add them...

 * 1) Give it a little while longer, and that article will be deleted on the French site as well. We are an encyclopedia based on REAL Mario content, not Mario content that fans of the series have made.
 * 2) Supertroopa As Pokemon DP just mentioned this is supposed to be a site full of the content of the real Mario series of games created by Nintendo and it wouldn't work out with the articles full of the real content and the content by fans.
 * 3) There's going to be a Wiki for it. Join that even though it is not out yet it will be soon. :P
 * 4) Son of Suns - It's unofficial information, and not needed. Plus, I think the 'Shroom has a section devoted to unofficial Mario flash media.
 * 5) - Per all.
 * 6)  Per All
 * 7) http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/9276/papertoycf7.gif Paper Jorge! I give paper cuts so stand back! http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/9276/papertoycf7.gif This wiki is about Mario games, comics, movies and official stuff. Unofficial stuff is a no.
 * 8) Snack 12:33, 15 October 2007 (EDT) No way. Just because it is popular and relativly well known, doesn't mean it belongs here. Put it on Fantendo or something.
 * 9) Walkazo and PP - Per all. Besides, there have been articles on fan movies in the past (i.e. Rise of the Mushroom Kingdom) and they all got deleted. Also, some stuff in the Flash movies might be a bit mature for the Wiki (RotMK had blood and gore, for example).
 * 10) huntercrunch Per SoS. This was proposed i assume only because you are a fan yourself. If it isn't official information, then it has no place here on the wiki.
 * 11) they are not official.
 * 12) Booster No. Even though I enjoy the series, fanworks aren't something we cover.
 * 13) Okay, I'm finally saying no to this one, just because I realized how much trouble there would be in determining which fan creations should be covered and which should not be.  Sorry, Arend...
 * 14) Sorry,Arend,but there must be THOUSANDS. And half of them are innapropriate. So I say no.( Toadbert101 |[[Image:TBPaper.PNG|30px]]| Give a yell |Sez:) 23:52, 17 October 2007 (EDT)
 * 15) Bad idea. If something like this got an article, even fanart artists would end up thinking they can make their own pages too, and like the post above me said, a lot of the stuff can get inappropiate sometimes. There's a lot of youngsters on cyberspace too, so they might get confused and think articles like these are official.
 * 16) This wiki is about official Nintendo/Mario info. Adding these would be like adding fan characters and places. Per everyone else, except TB with the fact that some are innapropriate.
 * 17) User:Girrrtacos No... All these articles are based on Nintendo.
 * 1) This wiki is about official Nintendo/Mario info. Adding these would be like adding fan characters and places. Per everyone else, except TB with the fact that some are innapropriate.
 * 2) User:Girrrtacos No... All these articles are based on Nintendo.

Comments about this one
Arend, you should vote yourself.


 * Mcoolister: I think they were joking. I mean, did we get permission from Nintendo to make this site...and did we really need permission? http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/9276/papertoycf7.gif Paper Jorge! I give paper cuts so stand back! http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/9276/papertoycf7.gif


 * Nintendo and Sega own the copyrights to those characters and ideas. The fan videos were providing attribution to prevent copyright infringement.  They are not official sources.  We do the same thing here with our general disclaimer. -- Son of Suns


 * Oh thanks SoS for clearing that up. http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/9276/papertoycf7.gif Paper Jorge! I give paper cuts so stand back! http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/9276/papertoycf7.gif

Huntercrusher, I'm sure you know that people usually write about one topic over another because of personal preference. Just because a certain idea started as a result of preference should not be grounds for bashing it. I'm kind of on the fence about this... I'm not sure my vote would matter either way, though. 19:07, 15 October 2007 (EDT)
 * Shyguy: Those Comics are official Comics made by official companies. They belong here. Fan Flash series made by, well, fans, do not count as official!

Who was "add" voter #5? PP
 * It says "Shyguy27"

Sorry about the fifth "add" vote I submitted. I took it off.

DOES ANYONE KNOW THAT THERE IS GOING TO BE A WIKI FOR IT!!! JOIN IT. It will be on soon but not now so you just wait! OK!?!? Now end this proposal. And here's the link. It is on the Main Panel if you can't find it. Sheesh!!!

Whoa! 19 votes! This one has been voted on alot! PP
 * Actually its 20 now :P, Also Arend your reason to add it is because its on another wiki. So should we add all Fan stuff from Fantendo too? These Fan Flashes are Fan Fictions!
 * That raises an interesting point. Flash videos take time, skill and patience to create, but so do comix, fan art, and written fanfiction. If we include Flash series, people might start asking why only include one of many media and others might get offended and demand we include it all. We want to keep this site canocal, so we should try to keep all the fanon out or we could get swamped by it. - Walkazo

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Videos For Articles
DO NOT ADD 8-12

I propose we add videos to articles such as Mario Party Mini Games so we can see what the mini games are actually like instead of having to imagine what it would be like.

Proposer:http://www.mariowiki.com/images/6/6e/Rainbowyoshi.gif Super   Yoshi10 | Lookey This Deadline: 19:00, Oct. 23

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Add Them

 * 1) Reasons given above. Super Yoshi10
 * 2)  That's such a good idea!
 * 3)  We already have (my idea) but we can only use on userpages! Steve thinks that they have so bad quality but we put the videos on the articles but with links I don't see the difference!
 * 4) Yes. Not just mini-games, but videos for all sorts of articles. In fact, THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I'VE BEEN DOING TODAY (they're under a section I called "Have a Look!")! Check out my first one on the Super Mario Bros. article. And I'll keep on finding more if I wan't to. All you have to do to stop me is deny this proposal. You know, I was thinking of doing this proposal anyway, but instead, I'm making it happen. 20:35, 16 October 2007 (EDT)
 * 5) Glowsquid I think that these videos could be useful on article about obscure glitches or Beta Elements, I don't think we should link to Youtube on every pages thought.
 * 6) --&#91;&#91;User:Nasakid&#124;Zach121]] 21:53, 21 October 2007 (EDT) Add them
 * Yes, videos help User:Gowser
 * 1) Youtube links are used in the halopedia articles, why not here?

Don't Add Them

 * 1) The article already states what the Mini-game does. No need for videos. Besides, it would be VERY hard to upload movies.
 * 2) I have horribly slow internet, and webpages with movies would take way to long for my computer to load.
 * 3) We tried this long ago. Didn't work out so well. -- [[Image:Shyghost.PNG]]Chris[[Image:Shyghost.PNG]] 15:57, 16 October 2007 (EDT)
 * 4) Walkazo - Per Shyguy27. And even though my computer's not slow all the time, movies eat up SO much memory: I wouldn't be able to see images after three pages with videos, and three pages after that, the computer itself would stop working right. Other people are bound to have similar problems...
 * 5) Per Walkazo
 * 6) -Per DP. What's the point? This isn't a virtual reality video game.
 * 7) Per DP. It makes articles look less professional.
 * 8) - Links to (important) movies can be put on some pages, but we shouldn't flood the wiki with superflous, mostly low-res videos.
 * 9) I'm changing my vote based on DP and Uniju's comments regarding professionalism.  I could see linking working well in the cases I was talking about (trailers, etc.) Also, Youtube just sloooowed down a brand new computer in my house and reminded me just how finicky bandwidth was.  Sorry, guys. :(
 * 10) Per Uniju and Cobold.
 * 11) Per all
 * 1) Per all

Comments
Super Yoshi, PLEASE vote yourself! Also, FOR GOODNESS SAKES!! You didn't add any vote sections to this Proposal! Yeesh, anyone would have enough common sense to add the vote sections!

No, he gets MY vote!

Pokemon DP:Never heard of the Youtube tag?

Arend: I think Pokemon DP was talking about the fact that Super Yoshi didn't add any section to vote. Glowsquid
 * Glowsquid: It doesn't matter, movies don't seem very much needed on articles. I would say use that Youtube tag only on Userpages.
 * I agree, but I was only pointing out that it wouldn't be "it would be VERY hard to upload movies", like you said.

Glowsquid

Who was Oppose voter #2? PP

Shroobario I think u put ur vote on the wrong 1

All we have to do is put links on the article to the video. It's so simple everyone can do it. Everyone SHOULD do it if they want to help out.

20:35, 16 October 2007 (EDT)

You could do something like this on the 'Shroom, like a Video of the Issue?

I don't care if it says we can only use youtube on user pages! Just change that law. Oh and Shy guy 27 Just because you have slow internet doesn't mean we all have a slow computer! The wiki is not just centered on you you know! http://www.mariowiki.com/images/6/6e/Rainbowyoshi.gif Super   Yoshi10 | Lookey This
 * You can't simply change that rule. Porplemontage set that rule up for a reason! We can ONLY use the Youtube extension on Userpages, get used to it! And also, we must respect other Users computer issues. If they have a slow computer, that means Youtube extensions will slow down their computer and, yes, probably even freeze their computer. They will get REALLY mad at us for it. You are acting like a real brat.
 * DP, stop it with the flaming and the stuff. You activate Youtube by clicking first. Though I think videos should only be used on userpages and to show trailers of a game. 23:16, 17 October 2007 (EDT)

Mr Benio: You can't do anything untill the proposal is done, not before it's archived

Sorry baby, but I put so many on (about 82 articles) already that there is no need to continue pondering this proposal. I gotta keep it up. Why not just give in and help me out?

Okay, snooty. Until this thing is accepted (which it will be), I'll be putting them on a Word Document sheet. Happy?
 * You shouldn't be too confident about it.

Glowsquid, You can't just say that since you've started spamming the article with video, the proposal is pointless, it's the community that should decide that, we can remove these link if the proposal don't pass.

I hope not, because I've been finding more, and my brother's been helping, too. It would be a shame and a complete waste of time if this did not pass. It must. If not...well, at least I'll look forward to doing some more for my "Gaming Acheivements" section on my homepage... As a matter of fact, I should stop for a while, for college has gotten harder, and I should be working on my clases a bit more. But, if it passes, I will continue every now and then (GO SUPER YOSHI! MAKE IT HAPPEN!).

This'll be the best thing to happen to these articles scince...writing them!!

Would the opposition change their minds if they might be able to put sites of videos on their homepage, hmmm?

I don't oppose the idea of putting Youtube video on page, but I tihnk we shouldn't put a Youtube link on every page. I think that the Youtube Video tag should be used for thing like obscure bugs and Beta Elements, I don't think we should link to Youtube in the Crystal King article when the battle is already described well in the article itself. Glowsquid

To quote DP (don't worry, I'm not going to be a brat and slam you or anything): "Porplemontage set that rule up for a reason! We can ONLY use the Youtube extension on Userpages, get used to it!" You went on to say that it was because of people with really slow computers would freeze up. Do you have another reason, too? The way you wrote it was a tad confusing is all. My Internet varies from time to time in regards to speed (never blazingly fast, mind you), but just using the Wiki seems to slow it down right now. Loading that sample YouTube video didn't do anything bad to it. 21:18, 21 October 2007 (EDT)
 * I am basically saying that it might cause problems to computers with slow internet. It also makes an article look unprofessional, as Uniju said.

At least people will get a better idea on what they look like! Not all screenshots say it all (especially some on this site)! Don't you think it would be better if they saw these things after reading the descriptioins so that they won't have a bad guess on what those things would look like (because I've had a fair share of that problem!)?
 * A lot of the time pictures would suffice in showing us what the thing looks like... Anyway, I'm sticking by my (and others') complaint that YouTube videos will slow down and crash plenty of computers (mine included). However, I think putting links to YouTube videos on the pages is a good idea. That way people who can view that stuff will be able to get a better understanding of the subject matter, and those of us who can't won't get penalized. - Walkazo

Uuummm... I think videos such as the fights with Very Gnawty shouldn't be linked since they are short and minor, also Doopliss's name being revealed is also unneeded
 * But it's all valid information, no matter how minor it is. The links to the video do us no harm, whether you use the links or not is up to you: Since you (Mr. Guyy) feel the Very Gnawty and Doopliss videos are too minor to include, you can simply not view them. However, others might want to see them no matter how small they are, and if they're on the Internet we might-as-well put them on as links. - Walkazo

Pretty much, like above these things are already explained in the articles Mr. Guy

Walkazo's made his point. And unlike my proposals, this one won't be considered a waste of time. As far as I'm concerned, this proposal will be passed reguardless of the number of those against it. And I will later on put all those links that I saved up on thier proper articles. Face it you guys, Super Yoshi has won this. If we were still able to have user lists on our homepages, I would have added him on. Thank You.

No he hasn't, it's 8 to 12 votes, you just want Super Yoshi's side to win
 * Mrbenio: Walkazo is a she.

You guys might want to start making a "video requested" template soon (and sorry about Walkazo there). Change your minds, guys! This is a great thing!


 * Do you think that you will win just because you want to win? Look how many people are voting against it! You will not win the vote, sorry to say.

You know, I started doing this just before the proposal was made. In fact, as I might have already said, I was going to propose this anyway. But it seemed that Super Yoshi had the same idea. So there (by the way, it's past 19:00. Have you guys made the verdict yet?).

HEY!!! You guys DO have videos in some of your articles!! I found some while browsing through Mario Kart 64 tracks! And now I remember seeing some others in more articles...none of witch were made by me or my brother! You can't hide this proposal now!


 * I'm VERY glad you brought that up. ;) (starts removing the video links)

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Unoffical Music Articles
KEEP 1-3

We have articles on Music on this Wiki. Quite a few of them are official CD's released by Nintendo, or some Company associated with Nintendo. BUT! It also seems we have articles on music that were NOT put on official CD, aka, In-game songs and themes (an example being List of Songs in Super Smash Bros. Melee, which is listing the music tracks in the actual game, but NOT the music tracks on the Official CD). I propose we remove all In-game songs and themes, and keep only the music articles on official soundtracks that were released by a REAL Company.

Proposer: Pokemon DP Deadline: 22:00, Oct. 24

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Remove all In-game songs and themes

 * 1) I am the proposer, and my reasons are given above.

Keep Them

 * 1) If the songs were ripped from the game, they are official. 23:18, 17 October 2007 (EDT)
 * 2) Per Plumber.
 * 3) Nintendo is an official company, obviously, so by your arguement we should be keeping them rather than removing them, as long as we note that the tracks in question did not appear on the official CD.  Just because something isn't perfect doesn't mean we can't post about them.  I mean, we have an article about Hotel Mario, but that wasn't affiliated with Nintendo even.  Nintendo's offical music should be in then, right?

Comments
I don't think we should completely get rid of them. There should be a track listing in the game's own article. -- Son of Suns
 * Heres a good compromise. Remove the lists, move them to the appropriate articles and replace the names with those from the official sound tracks. No official name? Then it's not on the list. -- [[Image:Shyghost.PNG]]Chris[[Image:Shyghost.PNG]] 14:00, 17 October 2007 (EDT)
 * We agree with SoS, the song's aren't officially named, but they are official. - Walkazo and PP
 * I'm not quite sure I understand what you are saying.
 * 1. List of Songs in Super Mario Kart, move all that crap to Super Mario Kart (including download link).
 * 2. If the name of those tracks can't be verified, add a citation needed tag next to it.
 * 3. Run through all the articles about published game OSTs. Track for SMK have a name on one of those albums? Use that one in the article instead of X Theme. -- [[Image:Shyghost.PNG]]Chris[[Image:Shyghost.PNG]] 01:36, 18 October 2007 (EDT)

DP: We just meant that the somgs are conjectural, but still valid. It's a shame we can't get official names (same with all other conjectural information), but the info itself is still canocal and worthy of a place on the wiki. - Walkazo
 * OK, can we, instead, remove those In-Game articles and merge them with the actual game article? If so, you can completely ignore this Proposal.
 * But if an actual soundtrack has been released onto a CD, that article is kept, correct? -- Son of Suns
 * Tough call, I know how you want every named Mario-related thing to have an article, SoS, but how much could we really write about these songs? How long they are, what CDs and/or video games they're in, whose theme songs they are (if applicable), the actual lyrics... but what else? Maybe all the officially-named songs should be put in articles for the CDs they're relased on (to make sure we don't end up with a bunch of stubs that get deleted). And as DP said, all the unnamed songs can just be part of the game articles. - Walkazo

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