MarioWiki:Proposals

Decide when to substitute the meaning/explanation of a foreign name with a hyphen
This is part one of a motion to enforce consistency regarding the use of hyphens (-) in "Meaning" sections of "Naming in other languages" tables. A minor technicality, but it's always better to adhere to a firm convention rather than being spotty about it.

I've always taken the hyphen to indicate that it's redundant to explicitly note the meaning of a subject's name in a given language, either because it's an untranslatable name, the same as that subject's English name, or composed entirely of common English words. However, to my knowledge, no policy dictates using it as such, which leads to potentially confusing variances in the way information is formatted and conveyed; as an example, a recent edit to the "Foreign names" template assigns a different purpose to the hyphen, automatically rendering it where a "Meaning" argument doesn't exist in the template itself. We can't have it more than one way, so let's put our foot down on this.


 * Option 1: Use the hyphen solely to signal that a subject's name in a given language localisation, in its entirety, uses English words and is self-explanatory.
 * Option 2: Use the hyphen solely to signal that the code behind a "Foreign names" table lacks a "Meaning" variable for a given foreign name (e.g. a subject's Spanish name is noted in a Spa= field, but no corresponding SpaM= exists). This means that self-explanatory foreign names will be reproduced in "Meaning" parameters (e.g. Dut=Hot Wario | DutM=Hot Wario).
 * Option 3: It doesn't matter; leave as is.

If the first course of action ends up with the most votes in this proposal, it will be stated as a rule on the aforementioned "Foreign names" template's page. If the second course of action does instead, the template's own use of the hyphen will be explicitly noted on said page.

Proposer: Deadline: November 27, 2022, 23:59 GMT

Option 1

 * 1) Preferred option

Option 2

 * 1) Although this could be seen as redundant, it's my preferred option because it leaves less ambiguity as to what the hyphen means and makes the tables look more complete in my opinion.

Comments
The recent edit doesn't change the meaning of the hyphen, it simply provides a streamlined way to display it which saves on wikitext (omitting the M parameter rather than manually setting it equal to "-"). -- 20:10, November 13, 2022 (EST)
 * And was there an express intent to have this done whenever a foreign name speaks for itself in English? Because some articles omit the M parameter where the respective foreign name actually requires explanation (see German name entries on most Wario Land: Shake It! level articles, e.g. Riverbloat Rapids). There should be more clarity on this. 04:39, November 14, 2022 (EST)
 * I added guidelines for it here. An easy and intuitive way to remember it is this: ("no explanation necessary" = "no meaning param necessary") and ("the meaning should show as blank" = "the meaning param should be set to blank"). If the name should have a meaning then it makes sense to set it to blank since the idea is that ideally this should be filled in later. Articles that don't follow this currently can be updated over time. -- 07:02, November 14, 2022 (EST)

New features
None at the moment.

Remove external links to Zelda Dungeon Wiki and/or Triforce Wiki
Early this year, a proposal was passed to add external links to Zelda Dungeon Wiki and Triforce Wiki by 10-0; the intent was to add two links to two independently hosted wikis as Zelda Wiki at the time was hosted on Fandom.

Fortunately for us, this is no longer the case. Zeldapedia is now independently hosted and doing well. I think while Zelda Dungeon Wiki and Triforce Wiki have served their purpose and are great resources for Zelda content, it would be embarassing (as a NIWA wiki) to continue using these wikis when it was originally intended to supplement a Fandom wiki that has since forked its content to become independently hosted once again.

Edit: After giving some thoughts, I've decided to allow users to either remove ZD Wiki or Triforce Wiki or remove them both.

Proposer: Deadline: October 27, 2022, 23:59 GMT Extended to November 4, 2022 23:59 GMT  Extended to November 11, 2022, 23:59 GMT Extended to November 18, 2022, 23:59 GMT

Remove both

 * 1) Per my reasons.
 * 2) Per proposal.
 * 3) Per proposal.
 * 4) Per proposal

Do nothing

 * 1) - Disregarding my personal ties to Triforce Wiki, I'd actually support (and even prefer) allowing more specifically approved outside-NIWA indy wikis of Nintendo subjects to be included, if only for variety's sake. (Also, I am very happy for ZeldaWiki!)
 * 2) Agreed. Disregarding the biases involved with Triforce Wiki's approach being modeled after this wiki's, I think it's more in our interest to keep the line drawn at non-NIWA wikis that cross into Mario franchise coverage. I might be misremembering, but wasn't there a time when the Sonic News Network links were in question due to the Sonic Retro wiki, but it was decided to keep both because while the former isn't independent, it's more mature as a wiki? For our purposes, the relevant content is mature enough. Cutting off options does a disservice to readers.
 * 3) Having both of these links assists readers; if they find that one wiki doesn't have enough information, they can go to the other. Again, I'm admitting my bias, but I think having no links would hurt more than help.
 * 4) Per all.
 * 5) - per Doc

Comments
Here's the thing, I'm more in favor of just removing Triforce Wiki. Zelda Dungeon Wiki, I feel, should still be kept for the reasons Doc has said. However, I'm more in favor of removing Triforce Wiki because the owner has had disturbing history on many NIWA wikis. Wikiboy10 (talk) 09:53, October 20, 2022 (EDT)
 * I tried my best to not mention it, but yeah the history of Triforce Wiki had been concerning for many. If people want to keep ZD Wiki and remove Triforce Wiki, I'd be happy to add it as an option. 10:03, October 20, 2022 (EDT)
 * I'm going to let Doc touch on this since I don't know as much - being that I had never been in Discord - but know the bottom line is that the founder is no longer actively involved and I disbelieve that one's personal actions taints a whole. LinkTheLefty (talk) 10:25, October 20, 2022 (EDT)
 * Um... TriForce Wiki was always my little pet project. RMV even said as much himself. Technically the domain is now hosted by grifkuba, I've banned RMV for his - quite frankly dangerous - behavior, and I am the de facto proprietor now - I've just been inactive due to being busy on this site. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 12:34, October 20, 2022 (EDT)

Disregarding the problematic history with Triforce Wiki (and thank god he's no longer involved), I have some issues with your argument @LinkTheLefty.
 * "I think it's more in our interest to keep the line drawn at non-NIWA wikis that cross into Mario franchise coverage. [...] Cutting off options does a disservice to readers."

I'm not sure if this is a great argument. We already have issues with Smash coverage here, and at the moment they aren't linking to any other Smash wiki than SmashWiki. I might be getting into slippery slope territory by saying this, but I don't want an instance where we decide that if we provide enough coverage to a franchise, we should link to every wiki that covers that franchise. Relatively speaking, I don't want this wiki to start linking to https://animalcrossing.fandom.com (which is unlikely, but still). I don't think Zeldapedia minds about linking to other Zelda wikis, but I don't want this to set a precedent that quite frankly should be avoided. 11:08, October 20, 2022 (EDT)
 * I was going to mention Smash before, but I thought that example was already implicitly inapplicable given the franchise's special scope in wiki coverage (for the time being or not), so I didn't bother. Your Fandom example isn't applicable either, per this proposal. Furthermore - and I'm aware this wasn't your intention when you made this but I want this to be clear - associating Triforce Wiki with one person/incident it has largely moved away from is REALLY unfair to Doc, who has been open about it being a pet project of hers and earned the title of current proprietor of the wiki, which is now hosted by Grifkuba among other NIWA wikis. That's all I really want to say about this matter. LinkTheLefty (talk) 11:54, October 20, 2022 (EDT)

I think I'm going to wait a bit before weighing in with a vote. For now, I think it's best if we at least replace all links to the ZeldaWiki hosted by FANDOM with links to the new independent Zeldapedia, if that hasn't been done already. I'm also happy that they finally went independent again, like how they used to. It kinda stuck like a sore thumb to have this one NIWA wiki to be hosted by Gamepedia/FANDOM when all the other NIWA wikis are independent. On a side note though, I think it's funny that the new independent wiki is called "Zeldapedia", considering there was previously a Zeldapedia hosted by FANDOM before they were assimilated by ZeldaWiki on FANDOM. 11:05, October 22, 2022 (EDT)
 * Just to let you know, it's already replaced; the interwiki links now point to Zeldapedia instead of Zelda Wiki. 14:26, October 22, 2022 (EDT)

@Scrooge200 If one wiki doesn't have enough info compared to the other, there's nothing to stop anyone from fixing this. But if all wikis update themselves so that they share the same info, what's the point in linking to anything other than the associate wiki if there's no difference? That would be redundant. SmokedChili (talk) 11:35, November 13, 2022 (EST)
 * Except there are noticeable organizational, presentation, and policy differences between the wikis that by and large make them fundamentally incompatible with each other, not the least of which would be the alternate perspectives on Dark Horse coverage. (And, biased side note, there -is- justifiable cause for skeptical voices to exist, especially considering Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia made everyone here more aware of their practices of fandom plagiarism - Zelda Encyclopedia is frankly a bigger beast than the Mario equivalent that might just need something along the lines of a Google Doc to properly document the localization's sheer, uncredited wiki-tracing, and Zeldapedia and Triforce Wiki particularly take opposing, hardline stances on it, as Zelda Wiki had made clear. While I'm at it, I think it's fair to be open with the fact that the opposition isn't the only side with a bias.) . For this reason among others, you can have superficial similarities on a casual level, but editors could not be allowed to write much of the same material due to their fundamentally different philosophies. LinkTheLefty (talk) 13:02, November 13, 2022 (EST)

Changes
None at the moment.

Miscellaneous
None at the moment.