MarioWiki:Proposals

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r149/Deadringerforlove/dessert1.jpg A proposal section works like a discussion page: comments are brought up and replied to using indents (colons, such as : or ::::) and all edits are signed using the code.

This page observes the No-Signature Policy.

How To
 * 1) Actions that users feel are appropriate to have community approval first can be added by anyone, but they must have a strong argument.
 * 2) Users then start to discuss on the issue. 24 hours after posting the proposal (rounding up or down to the next or previous full hour, respectively, is allowed), the voting period begins. (The proposer is allowed to support their proposal right after posting.) Each proposal ends at the end of the day one week after voting start. (All times GMT).
 * 3) Every vote should have a reason accompanying it. Agreeing or seconding a previously mentioned reason given by another user is accepted.
 * 4) Users who feel that certain votes were cast in bad faith or which truly have no merit can address the votes in the Comments section. Users can ask a voter to clarify their position, point out mistakes or flaws in their arguments, or call for the outright removal of the vote if it lacks sufficient reasoning. Users may not remove or alter the content of anyone else's votes. The voter can remove or rewrite his/her own vote at any time, but the final decision to remove another User's vote lies solely with the Administrators.
 * 5) All proposals that end up in a tie will be extended for another week.
 * 6) If a proposal has more than ten votes, it can only pass or fail by a margin of three votes. If a proposal reaches the deadline and the total number of votes for each option differ by two or less votes, the deadline will be extended for another week.
 * 7) Any proposal that has three votes or less at deadline will automatically be listed as "NO QUORUM." The original proposer then has the option to relist said proposal to generate more discussion.
 * 8) No proposal can overturn the decision of a previous proposal that is less than 4 weeks (28 days) old.
 * 9) Proposals can only be rewritten or deleted by their proposer within the first three days of their creation. However, the proposer can request that their proposal be deleted by a Sysop at any time, provided they have a valid reason for it.
 * 10) All proposals are archived. The original proposer must take action accordingly if the outcome of the proposal dictates it. If it requires the help of a Sysop, the proposer can ask for that help.
 * 11) There shouldn't be proposals about creating articles on a underrepresented or completely absent subject, unless there is major disagreement about whether the content should be included. To organize efforts about completing articles on missing subjects, try creating a PipeProject.
 * 12) Proposals cannot be made about System Operator promotions and demotions. Sysops can only be promoted and demoted by the will of Bureaucrats.
 * 13) If the Sysops deem a proposal unnecessary or potentially detrimental to the upkeep of the Super Mario Wiki, they have the right to remove it at any time.
 * 14) No joke proposals. Proposals are serious wiki matters, and should be handled professionally. Joke proposals will be deleted on sight.

The times are in GMT, and are set so that the user is more likely to be online at those times (after work/school, weekend nights). If a proposal is added on Monday night at 23:59 GMT, the deadline is the night of the Tuesday of the next week at 23:59 PM. If it is posted a minute later, the deadline is 23:59 PM of the Wednesday of the next week, since midnight is considered to be part of the next day, as 00:00 AM.

Basic Proposal and Support/Oppose Format
This is an example how your proposal should look like, if you want it to be acknowledged. If you are inexperienced or unsure how to set up this format, simply copy the following and paste it into the fitting section. Then replace the [subject] - variables with information to customize your proposal, so it says what you wish. If you insert the information, be sure to replace the whole variable including the squared brackets, so "[insert info here]" becomes "This is the inserted information", not "[This is the inserted information]". - ===[insert a title for your Proposal here]=== [describe what issue this Proposal is about and what changes you think should be made to improve how the Wiki handles that issue]

Proposer: Voting start: [insert a voting start time here, f.e. "2 January, 2010, 14:00". Voting start times are 24 hours after the time at which the proposal was posted, as described in Rule 2 above.] Deadline: [insert a deadline here, 7 days after the voting start, at 23:59 GMT.]

====Support====
 * 1) [make a statement indicating that you support your proposal]

====Oppose====

====Comments==== - Users will now be able to vote on your Proposal, until the set deadline is reached. Remember, you are a user as well, so you can vote on your own Proposal just like the others.

To support, or oppose, just insert " # at the bottom of the section of your choice. Just don't forget to add a valid reason for your vote behind that tag if you are voting on another user's Proposal. If you are voting on your own Proposal, you can just say "Per my Proposal".

Talk Page Proposals
All proposals dealing with a single article or a specific group of articles are held on the talk page of one of the articles in question. Proposals dealing with massive amounts of splits, merges or deletions across the Wiki should still be held on this page.

How To

 * 1) All active talk page proposals must be listed below in chronological order (new proposals go at the bottom). All pages effected must be mentioned in the brief description, with the talk page housing the discussion linked to directly via "". If the proposal involved a page that is not yet made, use to communicate its title. The Deadline must also be included in the entry. Linking to pages not directly involved in the talk page proposal is not recommended, as it clutters the list with unnecessary links. Place  under the heading.
 * 2) All rules for talk page proposals are the same as mainspace proposals (see the "How To" section above), with the exceptions made by Rules 3 and 4 as follows:
 * 3) Voting in talk page proposals will be open for two weeks, not one. There is no 24 hour delay between the posting of a talk page proposal and the commencement of voting.
 * 4) Talk page proposals may be closed by the proposer if both the support and the oppose sides each have fewer than five votes.
 * 5) The talk page proposal must pertain to the article it is posted on.

List of Talk Page Proposals

 * Split Tinga and Inga (Discuss) Deadline: October 14th, 2010, 23:59 GMT.
 * Use DPL Table for failed Featured Article Nominations (Discuss) Deadline: October 13th, 2010, 3:00 UCT

New Features
None at the moment

Removals
''None at the moment.

Changes
None at the moment.

Making a Power Glove article
I think we should make a article for the failed accessorie, the power glove. We have a article for the Atari 2600 and the Virtual boy, so why not make a power glove article. I will put in codes the players need to use to play the games.

Proposer: Voting start: 25 September, 2010, 10:00 GMT Deadline: 2 October, 2010, 10:00 GMT.

Support

 * 1) Per proposal
 * 2) What would a Super Mario Wiki without those kinds of stuff?

Oppose

 * 1) Atari 2600 and Virtual Boy are consoles that had Mario titles. The Power Glove is an accessory that didn't have any Mario games specifically made for it.
 * 2) Unless the power glove have any sort of Mario stuff on it, we are supposed to cover Mario-related content, not Nintendo content in general.
 * 3) Per all.
 * 4) I am Zero! Per all. Zero signing out.
 * 5) At Tomz123, it would be the Super Mario Wiki. Not making an appearance in any Mario game (besides cameo) or Super Smash Bros. game makes it not notable.
 * 6) Per all.
 * 7) Per all
 * 8) Mario has, like, nothing to do with the Power Glove.
 * 9) "I LOVE THE POWER GLOVE!! IT'S SO ...totally non-Mario." The only connections are Nintendo & that awesome film, The Wizard.
 * 10) per all. It's not mario at all.
 * 11) About as Mario-related as Snooki. Per all.
 * 12) Per all.
 * 13) Well, the Power Glove has absolutely nothing to do with Mario, other than the fact it was made by Nintendo, which is not a good enough reason for an article.
 * 14) People are being really repetative here so... Per all.
 * 15) The Power Glove has nothing to do with Mario.
 * 16) From my understanding from reading the Wikipedia article only two games needed this and neither of them were Mario ones. Per all.

Comments
Did the Power Glove have any Mario games made for it period? I don't care about new ones, were any games made for the power glove that featured Mario or one of the Mario characters?
 * The Wikipedia article doesn't say anything about Mario at all, so no.
 * Were there any Mario games that had used the power glove as an item/feature/cameo/etc?
 * No.
 * I am Zero! @LGM Fail. Zero signing out.
 * @LGM I think there's a cameo of it in a WarioWare game, but that alone doesn't merit an article.

I don't even know hat a Power Glove is. Can someone explain it to me?
 * @CC-8: I'm sure that nobody here can explain better than wikipedia does.

And You are.....?
I just notice in some sections of articles, they refer to the game by an abbreviation (SSBB is an example) or by another name usually just a shorten version of the game title (Brawl another example). So we should have this settled once and for all, should we refer to Video game titles only by there full name in mainspace or still refer them by their abbreviations?

Proposer: Voting start: 28 September, 2010, 21:30 Deadline: 4 October, 2010, 21:30

Use Full Names

 * 1) I am Zero! It won't be that much work, it will just be every time you see one just change it to its full name, no problem. And it will avoid confusion to visitors who are very new to the Mario series. Zero signing out.
 * 2) Not everyone knows what those abbreviations mean. It's always better to write it out the long way.
 * 3) Per LGM.
 * 4) Per Zero
 * 5) Abbreviations aren't their real names. It's like calling Luigi 'Weegee'. Mabye.
 * 6) Per Marioguy1 (In comments)
 * 7) Per all.
 * 8) Per all.
 * 9) Per Zero777. Using abbreviations is just plain laziness.
 * 10) Per Zero777 and LGM. Plus if it isn't the thing's real name, what's the point of informing people about the false thing?
 * 11) Per all.
 * 12) per all
 * 13) IMO using abbreviations will make the writing unprofessional and less encyclopedic. Sometimes I don't even know what the abbreviations stand for. Also, look at "M&SOWG" (Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Winter Games). If you're not sure what game the article is talking about, you might not be sure what that stands for right away (I find it a little confusing myself at times).
 * 14) per Fawfulfury65

Keep Using Abbreviations

 * 1) It would be a lot of work to track down and remove all abbreviations, and it would be alright if they were kept, but only if the article states the abbreviation first. Such as "Super Smash Bros. Brawl, often abbreviated SSBB..." at the beginning of the article.
 * 2) Oh man. It would just be too much work to keep listing the entire name for every time it is referenced. A few titles like SSBM, SSBB, and some of the Mario vs Donkey Kong games come to mind.
 * 3) Lu-igi board per bowser luma
 * 4) Per Bowser Luma.
 * 5) Per Bowser's Luma. Who wants to make a link that says "Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Winter Games" all the time?
 * 6) Per all.

Comments
Full names in articles, abbreviations on talk pages.
 * We already have a rule on this. Full names go in articles.
 * Well then, this proposal is proposing something that has been proposed and passed previous to this proposal.

I won't be voting in this because my view is that something should only be shorted/abbrieviated if it's already been mentioned.


 * - Abbreviations should only be used when the game's full name is shown BEFORE the abbreviation is used. That way, people won't get too confused.
 * I believe that things should never be abbreviated, it will not kill you to write the entire title and improve clarification and understanding within the article. And @ all those opposing because it's "too much work", this is an easy task, it will probably be done in under a month after this proposal passes (maybe even a week if people work dilligently).

Manual of Style - look at the last paragraph. So now shouldn't we all be using full names to begin with?
 * That applies only to article titles...this proposal will close all loopholes.

I am Zero! @ChillGuy Writing down the game's name is your own personal thing to do but nothing will change on the search, you can still type down "SSBB" and still be redirected to the Super Smash Bros. Brawl article if this proposal pass, so your vote is invalid. Zero signing out.

Who cares if it's been a propsosal before. Maybe the outcome will be different. Like I said above, who the heck wants to make an incredibly long link every time they create the link?


 * If someone doesn't know what the abreviation means, they can just roll-over the link and the roll-over text'll show what the link is.(direct comment to LGM)
 * DaisyRox: Wave over this link (SSBB) - what does it say? "Super Smash Bros. Brawl"? No, it says "SSBB". And now, wave over this word (SSBB), what did that say? Nothing? See there, two examples of when an abbreviation would not be understanded unless you know what "SSBB" means.

The prefix "List of"
There are 166 lists on the wiki. 105 have the prefix "List of". The rest don't. We need concistency. Either we remove List of, or we add list of. I prefer removing it, because list of is unnecessary. While some of you might argue that people wouldn't know what is a list and what isn't, most of the articles that have list of are articles that people would expect to be lists.

Proposer: Voting start: October 1, 1:04 PM Deadline: October 7, 23:59 GMT

Remove "List of" from all lists

 * 1) Per me.
 * 2) Per Reversinator.
 * 3) - Well, it's a no-brainer that they're lists. If it's got a bunch of links on one page, it's a list. In other words, per proposal.

Add "List of" to all lists

 * 1) Per Vellidragon's comment below. Also, if 105 list pages have "List of" in their name, then surely it would be easier to add that to the remaining few list pages instead of taking it off the page title?
 * 2) - Per vellidragon
 * 3) The easiest way to be productive is what we want, so per Vellidragon.
 * 4) Per comments
 * 5) - Per my comment.
 * 6) This wouldn't work that well. Example: The List of Implied characters would just be called Implied Characters. Per all
 * 7) Well, the list of implied locations' name, if this were to happen, would be not self explanatory, and people that have came here after this proposal will not know what the page is at firs look which is a bad thing, we need people to be able to look at the page name and know what the page is about.
 * 8) Per all,especially Vellidragon.
 * 9) Per Vellidragon's comment below and all.

Comments
Imo, the "list of" parts make sense as a means of justifying the use of the plural in the article title, which is not normally allowed. It also makes it clear that the article doesn't just explain the concept of something; e.g. a "List of Games" lists games instead of just describing what games are; if it didn't have the "list of" part, a logical assumption would be that it does the latter.--
 * I agree with Vellidragon, if the article is an article entitled (following his example) "Games", it is expected that the article will contain information on what games are, different gaming systems, etc.


 * However if the article is entitled "List of Games", it is expected that there will be a large list of all games which is what will actually be shown in the article.
 * Then what about pages like the Bestaries we have for the PM series and SMRPG? I mean, I do like the idea of being all the same, but still, it will be hard with some names to move.
 * DaisyRox: Of course! It's definitely a no-brainer to know what's a list and what isn't without looking at the article! How could I possible have overlooked the powers of psychometry :)

Character Pages Extras
Alright, you can even look at the articles of Mario, Luigi, Peach, and so on, to see that the pages are HUGE! In all, that is a very good thing that should be with all the info they have, but then you see the small sections known as the cartoons and comics area. Do we really need them to be on the main characters pages? I mean, we can't just toss it aside, but really...

My proposal is not entirely deleting that info about the comics, cartoons, stories, and that stuff, but to move it to a different page. To show an example, for the comics that Mario has been in, we could make a page and be able to view all the comics Mario has been in and what his comic-counterpart is like. That will help with all the information from the animated stuff that differs greatly from the character's video game background.

It might sound troubling at first, but think of it as just making another page for the character. We have Baby Mario, Baby Luigi, Baby Peach, and so on, and they are just a younger form of the adult counterparts we have known for awhile. And on that topic, we even had a proposal before that wanted to separate some of the baby info from the video game since the cartoon made it seem like they appeared a lot earlier.

Alright, I think I talked quite enough for the proposal statement, so just vote on what you think would be best for this wiki. I'm just saying though, that the pros are more pleasant and outnumbering than the cons for the benefits to the wiki.

Proposer: Voting start: 3 October, 2010, 0:43 GMT Deadline: 9 October, 2010, 23:59 GMT.

Support

 * 1) - Per all the statements I have written above and below. :D
 * 2) Per proposal, I think that the comics, etc. are too off of the actual games (especially the movie) to be included in the same article.
 * 3) There are very big differences between the comics, cartoons and video games. They should be seperate.

Oppose

 * 1) It's easier for them to all be together. If someone doesn't want to see them, they can easily skip those parts. We'd, as a result, have many useless stubs and also less FAs.
 * 2) per MrConcreteDonkey
 * 3) I am Zero! There will come a limit where it needs to split into separate sub-articles, but I don't think we reached that point yet. Zero signing out.
 * 4) Hey Baby Mario Bloops, there's this thing called the content box. I suggest that you use it. Per MrCD.
 * 5) - This is like saying the dictionary is to wordy and then proposing they put all the nouns, verbs, adverbs and adjectives into separate books. Sure, the individual volumes may be smaller, but you still need all four to get around, and between them, there'd be even more pages when you take into account the quadrupled set of introductory and explanatory sections, publishing info, cover pages, and whatnot (one per "dictionary"). Granted, a lot of the larger pages do need work, but rather than hacking away at them with quick-fix solutions like this, we should shorten them by streamlining the text and cutting out little snippets of superfluous writing here and there (like how they shorten the definitions and remove the most obscure words to make pocket dictionaries), while at the same time developing the sections that need more info. Rewrites may take a lot of time and effort, but they make the wiki look much better and are well worth the work. Plus, as Glowsquid alluded to in the comments, the whole "canon" debate has become nothing more than a recurring little migraine for our wiki and the less we go poking at it, the better. Long story short, until Nintendo says the games, cartoons, comics, movies and books (and anything else they have or will throw at us) are all separate timelines or whatever, we have no choice but to treat them as one big mess of equal and truthful continuity, lest we delve into the realm of slippery-sloped speculation, which has no place on our (ideally) hard-facts-only database. It's not an ideal way to organize all our content, but it's the best we can do with what we've been given to work with.
 * 6) Per Walkazo's really long comment right above. Of course they have to be on the same page as the characters! Why would you need to make a completely different link? It'll just create more stubs, and that's boring. Other than that, it's still information about the character.
 * 7) Per Walkazo.
 * 8) per Walkazo

Comments
Has anyone else here seen the DC wiki? They have a similar thing that this proposal's talking about. There's one article for the mainstream comics character, and another for that character in a TV Show, Parallel universe etc. and it works pretty well. It wouldn't hurt to have the same thng happen here, Especially since we don't have much on the comics/cartoons.

One other thing is that we might have to create some disambiguation pages so that these new articles can actually be found. Eg: The Mario disambiguation might have about 5, which could include the Cartoon, the comics and a seperate one for each film. My point is that we need to be able to make disambiguation pages. But it shouldn't be to much of a problem.

The DC Wiki may do this, but at the same time, DC comics are much heavier on continuity than Mario, and some "alternate universe" versions are considered characters in their own right. It's not rare for Superman to meet one of his alternate-univere self, for one. And the reason we have separate pages for the babies is that they're often seen at the same time as their adult counterparts (ex: The sport games, M&L: Pit) and thus are different characters.

The proposer says the character pages are huge, and while our amount of content certainly plays a part in that, the main reason is that they're honestly terribly written, filled to the brim with wordcruft, tangents about the IRL impact of the games and summarising entire plot including the parts that aren't relevant to the character. Even the cartoon sections have that problem, describing damn near every episodes Mario appeared in, even though most of it is not relevant.

And though that's a silly reason, I'd like to avoid the inevitable headache if either Stumpers or Son of Suns come back, both of which were senior sysops really, really opposed to separating the cartoons and comics from the games. --Glowsquid 12:22, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, my point sort of came from looking at all the pages that Bulbapedia has. View it from that, as they have many characters their comics and cartoon counterparts. You could reason with them also about they could be the same person and so on and so forth. But see how sucessful that is with theirs, and we could do the same thing. We have a lot of agruements with the comics/cartoon and it deals greatly on this wiki, and this proposal is meant to be an alternative that will solve that problem.
 * I think the Mario article is too long but I don't think this is the way to go...we want our viewers to be able to find information on Mario by typing "Mario" into the search box. We don't want them to go looking through a whole bunch of Marios to find the Mario they want. It is our job to give them what they want with the least amount of work on their part, no matter how much work it is on ours.
 * Hey superboo! That's called the table of contents, I suggest you get your facts straight next time you try to make someone feel bad or it'll jump back at you :)

Geez, Superboo. You don't have to be so harsh about Baby Mario Bloops' proposal. At least he tried.

MarioGuy1:You're acting as though we would have about 25 Mario articles if this proposal passes. All you need is a disambiguation page and it shouldn't be too hard finding them all.