MarioWiki:Proposals

List of Talk Page Proposals

 * Separate Wii U audio files from the ones on the GBA (Discuss) Passed.
 * Separate the Nintendo eShop paragraph from the 3DS and Wii U pages (Discuss) Passed.
 * Separate the Mario Bros. stage from the Smash Bros. stage of the same name (Discuss) Passed.
 * Merge Gritty Goomba (Gwarhar Lagoon) with Gritty Goomba (Teehee Valley) (Discuss) Deadline: April 5, 2014, 23:59 GMT
 * Split Green Pokey enemy from the Yellow Pokey. (Discuss) Deadline: April 5, 2015, 23:59 GMT
 * Merge Boss Bass with Big Bertha. (Discuss) Deadline: April 6, 2015, 23:59 GMT
 * Split Red Koopa Troopa and Green Koopa Troopa. (Discuss) Deadline: April 8, 2015, 23:59 GMT
 * Merge Koopa Leaf with Turtley Leaf. (Discuss) Deadline: April 8, 2015, 23:59 GMT
 * Change name from Snufit Police to Snifit Police. (Discuss) Deadline: April 9, 2015, 23:59 GMT
 * Split Bowser Baddies from Koopa Troop. (Discuss) Deadline: April 9, 2015, 23:59 GMT
 * Merge Snufit with Snifit. (Discuss) Deadline: April 9, 2015, 23:59 GMT
 * Delete the Recipes page (Discuss) Deadline: April 11, 2015, 23:59 GMT
 * Merge Forest Fuzzy with Green Fuzzy. (Discuss) Deadline: April 13, 2015, 23:59 GMT
 * Create a article for each Paper Mario chapters. (Discuss) Deadline: April 14, 2015, 23:59 GMT
 * Split Pidgit and Dodorigesu Jr. (Discuss) Deadline: April 14, 2015, 23:59 GMT
 * Order the subsections of the Lawsuits section in List of Mario-related controversies (Discuss) Deadline: April 15, 2015, 23:59 GMT

Writing Guidelines
None at the moment.

Pie For Everyone (revist redux)
Over the last year, since we last came together to discuss the often mentioned and regularly requested "pie button" feature, I've been submerging myself into the community to find what you, the users, actually want. More than that, I've been practically pestering my fellow admins on what they actually think of the my suggested pie creation and distribution system, why they felt it wouldn't work, the possible benefits and long term costs of such a system and how we can bring it all to the people.

Taking all the feedback into account and reviewing the results of the past proposals, here are what I have identified as the key concerns:


 * 1) Selection. Not of pie fillings, but of just pie itself. Some stated cake was better, other suggested they would support the idea if milk was offered.
 * 2) Difficulty. This seemed to be the chief concern among my fellow admins, that it would take a large number of resources to set up and that the slightest miss-step will bring the whole thing crashing down.
 * 3) Practicality. A few were concerned that pie, or indeed any food, would be a poor motivator or reward for hard working editors.
 * 4) Dumb/Silly/Stupid. I believe this speaks for itself.

I've crunched the numbers, looked over our resources and I think I've found a solution for all of these points that I hope will quill any further concerns. Now, before we get into this, let's be clear that this is an early draft of ideas for a work in progress. Positive feedback would be the most helpful in rearing the project to it's full potential.

Here is what has been carried over from the previous two proposals, with edits to match current ideas:


 * A single editor may only make use of the pie button once every 24 hours, due to constraints on the currently proposed delivery system (detailed below).
 * Each piece of pie will cost $3 American (or it's equivalent in your home countries currency). This is to cover basic delivery services. This price may need to be adjusted as the project fleshes itself out.
 * Third point to help make proposal look less like I just suddenly decided to do it at 3am, when in actually I've been thinking about this for a week, but I come up with my best ideas under time related pressure.

And to the concerns listed above:

1. I don't think it would be that much of an issue to expand out selection to cover other pastries, perhaps even instituting a "pay for custom" type system in case someone wants something we either don't offer by default or just never thought to add to the list. For this tentative list, it has been suggested that we offer:


 * Doughnut (suggested flavors: jelly (various), glazed, whole wheat & bovine laxative)
 * Cake (suggested flavors: angel food, chocolate, soylent green & Surge(TM))
 * Warm milk (suggested flavors: strawberry, chocolate, vegetable & soy)
 * Pie (suggested flavors: cherry, apple, Dippy's Home Made Sen-pie & Willem Dafoe).

This list is likely to change as the project matures and actual prices are worked out, but I feel this is a good start.

2. To the point of difficulty, I fully accept that the "pie haxoring" method was a bad idea, both for reasons of assuming wiki syntax is stable enough to do anything beyond confusing new editors and for the need to trust Wayoshi to do anything that would be classified as "not ticking off half the wiki staff" (paraphrasing). I have since Rube Goldberg'd a new creation and delivery system that I think makes full use of our resources while also not overtaxing our administrative team.


 * Step 1. Making the pies. I almost feel like I don't need to go into greater detail here, mostly because we are a close community of involved peoples and maybe a bit because I couldn't come up with an adequate way to segue into this one, but the pastries will of course be hand baked by our very own Crocodile Dippy. Perhaps this isn't known to some, but Dippy is a world renown baker and I am proposing we put her underused skills to work for the wiki. It should be noted that this isn't intended as a reassignment of her current position, but an addition to her current responsibilities on the wiki, with the authority to draft editors as needed Thunderdome-style.


 * Step 2. The delivery system. Again dipping into our talented staff pool, many of you know that our very own Walkazo is a Zoologist of some merit. Using her amazing science driven druid powers over nature, my current plan is to have her entrance a flock of carrier birds and a herd of large damn moles who will then deliver ordered pastries in a timely fashion. Distance won't be a problem as Walkazo is an all knowing druid-magician hybrid and can summon creatures to any spot on the planet with a flick of the crazy huge shotgun you see her hauling around in every picture.


 * Step 3. The currency exchange, payment processing, all the little financial things. For that, we have Paypal. Yeah, that's it, Paypal, no joke here, move on.

3 & 4. For both the naysayers and generally negative people in the community, I say the following: I hear you. I hear your complaints, your detraction's and your concerns. Perhaps we don't see eye to eye, but I am here for you. I've been here for you for years and I know how to help you fully understand the untapped potential pie presents for us. Out in NIWA square (so that our brother and sister wiki's can make use of it as well), I am having a small, four foot high by four foot wide pole installed. This part is rather complicated and full of jargon, but a sign will be installed next to said pole so that those who are otherwise concerned with how "dumb" this idea is can present their opinion via an open forum method I'm calling the "sit and spin".

My friends, my family, let me be clear. This is no vanity project. I really feel that the power presented by a full stomach will allow us to reach higher than ever before, to become one of the most powerful wiki's on the internet and to truly reward those among us honestly deserve it. I ask you to think of your fellow editors when voting. I ask you to think of what you want out of the wiki when voting. I ask you to think....of pie.

Proposer: Deadline: April 7, 2015, 23:59 GMT

Pie For Everyone

 * 1) I'm currently hungry so this seems like a great idea!
 * 2) This is a great idea and I'm surprised this hasn't happened yet. Per proposal.
 * 3) Name one other wiki that has pie for everyone.
 * 4) I never get pie anymore.
 * 5) I could go for a nice plate of 3.14 and... oh wait, wrong pie. Eh, who cares. I support both pie and pi.
 * 6) If this fails for the third(?) time I will lose all faith in humanity. It's PIE, PEOPLE!!!!!!!
 * 7) - My flocks of giant (and/or adorable) pie-carrying birds are at your disposal (and so is my shotgun).
 * 8) It will help me in my bird watching, and I'll get some sweets in the deal. It's hard to pass up a genuine treat like this!
 * 9) Equal distribution of wealth.

Pie For No One

 * 1) pie killed me and my family i cant let it kill ppl again
 * 2) If you're not going to offer a sprinkles option for the doughnut feature then expect an angry mob from me. You wouldn't want that, would you?
 * 3) I don't like pie. # Love the cake, but you gotta have it so Peach delivers it to me personally. I'm the reason this wiki exists, SO CATER TO ME YOU PIECE OF JAM. Also, since you have no choice to choose which species of bird to deliver me the cake (love me some Aphelocoma californica cake studded with whole peanuts), I have to oppose even if I'm not so important. # Per Kart Player 2011. Also, it's a joke proposal. # No it's not.
 * 4) Since you (and me now) voted twice, it clearly is.
 * 5) I don't eat pie, I don't like cake, I don't drink milk and me liking doughnuts is not enough reason for me to support this. Include pancakes or otherwise the good sir in the comments is completely right; this proposal is a joke.
 * 6) Sorry, but I don't think the system will work. Let's face it − even though Ghost Jam is trying to make a workable system, but how are you going to get a valid address? What if someone accidentally hit the "Pie" button? What if someone jokefully hits the pie button over and over, in fact, so much the admins get terrifically annoyed? No matter how "perfect" you make it, this system won't work.
 * 7) No ice cream option equals no go, gho jo.

Comments
This is purely a joke, like the last two proposals just like them.
 * What made you guess that, eh? 14:52, 1 April 2015 (EDT)
 * I think it's for real 15:04, 1 April 2015 (EDT)
 * Indeed. One does not joke about pie. -
 * Get out, you shameless sockpuppet. Bring me in the REAL Walkazo and demand her that we include A. californica in this proposal or it's totally no deal. 15:21, 1 April 2015 (EDT)
 * I will do my best to summon some Scrub jays for this enterprise should you ever push the pie button. -
 * Oh, sweet! :D 15:34, 1 April 2015 (EDT)

Chocolate Mario's head looks delicious, by the way. 16:22, 1 April 2015 (EDT)

@Super-Yoshi: It is my understanding that pie is vindictive and doesn't like being voted against. Just saying. @Baby Luigi: A sprinkles option could easily be worked in. :D @Kart Player 2011: While pie is the focus of the proposal, it's not the only thing we'll be offering. Check point number one of concerns. -- Ghost Jam 20:18, 1 April 2015 (EDT)

Removals
None at the moment.

Set Clear Rules as to What "Species Origin" Means
To my knowledge, the "species origin" section on Template:Species-infobox is for the main species a subspecies is descended from (e.g. Shy Guy being the species origin for Snifit), but I keep seeing it used to mean "looks like" or "type of thing" (e.g. "Bottle" being the species origin for PET Bottom), which would be like labeling Dry Bones as a subspecies of "Skeleton" or "Turtle". And while I think this section could have a use if defined better, I'm sure some would say it could just be removed altogether, or replaced with something clearer. It's starting to look like the old "Affiliation" section of Template:Character-infobox, unrelated things are being put in it just to make the infobox slightly bigger. This may not need a proposal, in which case I'll gladly delete it, but to my knowledge, there isn't anything on the wiki actually defining what that section is supposed to be used for.

Proposer: Deadline: April 2, 2015, 23:59 GMT

Make a Clear Definition of What "Species Origin" is For

 * 1) Even though I agree with Mario, I can still see an appeaseable solution to the speculation problem.

Remove the Section Altogether

 * 1) I feel like "species origin" treads too closely with speculation. Whatever purpose it has is already served by "subspecies" (or "related species", which I think is a better name than "subspecies"). The flaw in your support is the lack of explaining "Make a Clear Definition of What 'Species Origin' is For" means since it's not clear exactly how you want to define it.
 * 2) Per LGM. I think the section is unnecessary anyway.
 * 3) Per Mario.

Rename Section

 * 1) Changing my vote, I think it'd be overused a lot less if it was renamed to "Subspecies Of" or something similar.

Comments
This is partly due to the over use of sub-species with little forethought into how it actually applies to subjects broadly or if it's even practical to call something that looks slightly different than something otherwise identical a "subset of the species. If we're being literal with the term, there should only be a handful of subspecies and it would flow counter to how we generally list things (as an example, a Paragoomba wouldn't be a subspecies of Goomba, as the wings denote an evolutionary advancement and both species are frequently found in the same regions, whereas Galoomba would be more of regional cousin). However, we use the term in such away that French Canadian's are a subspecies of both Canadians and the French. Sadly, there probably isn't easy or adequate way to solve this issue this late into the game. And let's all give a big hand to the idiot who first added the term on a whim to the wiki! I'm such a damn asset, aren't I!

What the hell were we talking about again? -- Ghost Jam 03:23, 27 March 2015 (EDT)
 * Wings aren't necessarily an evolutionary advancement. Going off-topic, but technically, if wings weren't evolutionary advantageous, they wouldn't be considered "better". 19:51, 28 March 2015 (EDT)
 * For the sake of argument, I'd say it counts as an advancement in so far as video game logic is being applied, but not in reality of course. -- [[Image:Shyghost.PNG]]Ghost Jam[[Image:Shyghost.PNG]] 01:47, 1 April 2015 (EDT)

Not really important, but here are some things I found on that section:


 * Bottle
 * Golden Diva
 * Hammer
 * Large fish
 * Robot
 * Squeak (on the Squeak article)
 * Thumbtack

Binarystep (talk) 00:49, 28 March 2015 (EDT)

My idea of a "clear definition" is basically obvious, confirmed subspecies only, like how it was originally used before people felt the need to add it to everything, not things that just look kind of similar or are that type of thing. It also means broad terms like "Bee", "Pig", etc. would not be allowed under that section, for the same reason why Goombas aren't a subspecies of Mushroom or something. To be honest, I think a lot of problems would be fixed if it was renamed to "Subspecies Of", which is a lot more clear than "Species Origin". In fact, I'll change my vote. Binarystep (talk) 21:29, 28 March 2015 (EDT)


 * @Mario (and Ghost Jam): If something's not "better" it's usually selected against and erased from populations, rather than leading to specialization - unless it's being dragged along with a good adaptation (due to the genes being close on the chromosomes), or something that started out good and only became bad after it was fixed due to new changes or changes in the environment, etc. Anyway, it doesn't matter if differences are good or bad when determining the taxonomy of a species, just that there are differences, and Ghost Jam's completely right in that the way we use "subspecies" around here is completely wrong. Aside from some RPG enemy sets that only differ in colour, strength and attack strategy, things we call "subspecies" should simply be recognized as full species, and in the interest of uniformity and not making subjective judgment calls, it would be better to even call the biologically similar-enough things "species" too. After all, the wiki's current mix of "species" and "subspecies/sub species/sub-species" is both inconsistent (in many ways) and often just speculating about what's a full species and what's a subspecies, which, as Ghost Jam also pointed out, is frequently done wrong, and periodically leads to rather messy situations. (I.e. is a Shady Paratroopa a Shady Koopa "subspecies" or a Koopa Paratroopa "subspecies", or neither, or both, given how Shady Koopas and Koopa Paratroopas are already "subspecies" of Koopa Troopas?) As a zoologist by trade, it makes me cringe to see the word splattered around the wiki, and it is honestly on my (very long) "to do" list to see it wiped out someday, including replacing the "subspecies" header of the infoboxes with "derived species"/"descendents"/etc. But for now, to make this more on-topic, @Binarystep: imo, what you're looking for for the vague "species origin" header is "parent species" - the species that directly gave rise to a given species (in RL it refers to evolution, but here it's from a game development POV - however the idea's the same: from X came Y, by adding wings/changing the colour/etc.). I also recommend making only one rename/redefine voting header (alongside the removal and leave-it-be options) as you're potentially splitting the vote and the basic idea that it's potentially a useful header if it's fixed is pretty much the same for both options anyway. -
 * Ooo, yeah, but my point is that wings don't necessarily denote an advancement, which implies it's "better" somehow. But anyhow, what about "related species" rather than "subspecies"? You can put the alleged "parent species" on top and put all the related ones underneath without actually assuming the Paragoomba came before the Paragloomba or something like that. I mean, creation-wise, that would make sense, but it seems to be assuming that one form chronologically came before the other. Or, maybe I'm just bringing up arguments that aren't there. 22:49, 31 March 2015 (EDT)
 * I knew that wing thing was wrong when I typed it, but it was the only thing think of to get the point across (I was also going under the assumption most people get all the things involved in the species/subspecies selection process, hell I only have a cursory understanding of it). Regardless, I like the idea of the mass correction of terms and Walkazo's suggestion of derived species (or similar). -- [[Image:Shyghost.PNG]]Ghost Jam[[Image:Shyghost.PNG]] 01:45, 1 April 2015 (EDT)
 * To be honest, I don't think "Related Species" would work for that, I think it'd be better for similar species (e.g. Li'l Sparkys are similar to Sparks, but not a subspecies). Binarystep (talk) 04:08, 1 April 2015 (EDT)
 * Perhaps, but I think related is just specific enough to group Paragoomba and its variants or something like that. 15:55, 1 April 2015 (EDT)

You know, I'm going to withdraw this, since it doesn't really need a proposal, I'll try my luck with a forum thread instead. Binarystep (talk) 20:20, 30 March 2015 (EDT)
 * A vote would still be good in the long run, but if you want to have a forum discussion in the meantime, okay (I'll remove the proposal for you later, or maybe tomorrow, but as the discussion's still in progress here, hence I haven't yanked it yet; plus I've been really busy or the last few days). Also, keep in mind that I might just make that "no more subspecies" proposal in the meantime (if I can make the time to write, run and start enforcing it), thus forcing some name changes in the template either way, but no promises. Anyway, I feel it's worth having a specific section for the parent species that the developers spun the later species off of, since the tendency is to make longer lists alphabetical so any nested nuances would be easily lost, and in general, it's best to specifically say "this is x" instead of assuming everyone will understand that the first thing in list y is x. "Derived species" can be the counterpart that's exclusivity used for species that were based on the focal species (such as Colossal Koopa Paratroopa for Gargantua Koopa Troopa), while "related species" (or perhaps "similar species") header can be used for things that are morphologically similar to the species in question, rather than simply listing all other derivative species: we have nav templates for that. -
 * To be honest, I think the Species Origin section could be fixed, just not with that name, which is too confusing (a lot of people seem to think it means "based on", probably because of how on a lot of game wikis, "Origin" refers to a real life thing being referenced). I actually have an idea for a remade species infobox, but I don't know enough about coding to make an example on my sandbox, unfortunately. Also, in response to Mario, I actually have a WIP species chart in my sandbox, showing the most logical (based on appearances, names, behavior, and ingame/manual/guide info if available) species/subspecies relations, I'd like some feedback on it. Binarystep (talk) 20:35, 1 April 2015 (EDT)

Miscellaneous
None at the moment.