Talk:Mario

Mario's Last Name
I would argue that the source for Mario's last name also being Mario is false. Miyamoto's quote clearly leaves Mario and Luigi's last name ambiguous, equating it to Mickey Mouse not really having a last name. https://nintendoeverything.com/miyamoto-says-marios-full-name-is-mario-mario/ --Seandwalsh (talk) 10:28, 20 November 2018 (EST)
 * That was back in 2012. Miyamoto has embraced the last name since 2015, even joking more recently that Link's full name is just like Mario's: Link Link. LinkTheLefty (talk) 10:42, 20 November 2018 (EST)

The writing is AWFUL
I needed something to listen to while I worked on something, so I had text-to-speech read out this article because I was curious. Most of the article is fine, but the "History" section is a complete and utter mess. Tons of poor grammar, spelling and grammatical errors, missing words, nonsensical statements, unnecessary information, and unrelated tangents. Everything beyond the History section is competently written, so it's just the big section that goes over all the games Mario has been in.

I'm afraid I don't have the time to fix it, but I thought I would at least bring it up here. 96.48.239.44 07:34, 19 January 2019 (EST)
 * You mean you can't? Yes, it is protected. You have to create an account first, make at least 5 edits on pages, during 4 days, and you'd be autoconfirmed to edit the page. -- 07:46, 19 January 2019 (EST)
 * Uhh... No, I said "I don't have the time" because I don't have the time. 96.48.239.44 20:43, 19 January 2019 (EST)
 * Okay... Can you provide a few examples of the "awful" writing? 02:57, 20 January 2019 (EST)

Please just remove Mario's dang height....
There is no confirmation on what Mario's "canon" height is as far as I'm aware and saying Mario's canon height is 155cm just because a Statue that said "Life Size" on it exists is an outright stupid reason to say he's over 5 feet, and it's outright insane to think he's somehow 155cm, it makes no sense whatsoever and it's offensive to short people such as myself, because I stand at 165cm and I will never grow a bit anymore. And when someone says stubby freakin' Mario is 155cm, I find that so insulting, especially when Mario Odyssey gameplay depicts Mario just a tiny bit taller than a freaking Fire Hydrant, which Hydrants are standardized at around 2 feet, and when I measured a Fire Hydrant height, it was 2'06" not to mention I measured my own head at 9 inches, and doing the math with a ripped model (from a Gmod Addon) of the New Donk Male Citizen, measured the height in heads (removing the head from the rest of the mesh and stacking the heads on top of each other), the height in heads was 7.05, I took my own height (65 inches) and divided it by 9, and I got 7.22, which means I must be taller than the New Donk City male citizen, if anything, Mario stands at 3'00" (92cm) not to mention he displays common complications of Dwarfism, for instance, he's usually bow legged and has a slight hunch back. And, I mean, unlike people who claim Mario is 155cm, at the very least I can show my work that shows how I got my answer for Mario's height, and essentially show prove, and evidence of Mario's height being otherwise - https://ibb.co/WKMm22j and to think, people have yet to convince me Mario is somehow 5 feet, and honestly, I'll probably never believe it, because it's so outlandish and stupid to think, want to know why using that "Life Size" statue is so stupid? - https://us.amazon.com/Authentic-Nintendo-Licensed-Super-Collectible/dp/B01IGY1AFA it is apparently a "Life Size" Mario plush... yet it's a completely different number in height from the dang statue... And Let's be honest, I have more evidence on my side, Against calculations? Rather have officials say so? Welp, here ya go - https://gonintendo.com/stories/293589-super-mario-odyssey-director-explains-why-new-donk-city-takes-a-r, Want More? Take more - https://www.dualshockers.com/miyamoto-explains-initially-worried-super-mario-odyssey/, notice that our key words on that second one are "Miyamoto" and "Normal People" Mario just can't be 5 feet, it makes no sense, and, well, this is probably a stupider reason I have to disbelieve it, but wouldn't it look so dang weird if a 155cm Mario were next to any anime girl of the height of 5 feet, like a lot of them are?

If you aren't mad at me for making this message and trying to defend my short height of 165cm (in imperial terms, that's 5'05"), and if you decided to take the time to look at my calculations and my points rather than outright say "UR RAWNG! UR RAWNG! IGNURINCE" or nailing me to a cross and burning it to the ground for saying Mario isn't over 5 feet tall, Thank You. GoldyFish110 (talk) 21 June 2019

Sigh... I didn't wanna ask this again, but
Please remove a certain something from this quote I put here "Mario wears a trademark cap, brown hair (although the DiC cartoons sometimes depict it as black), a black or dark-brown mustache, and overalls and is 155 cm (5 ft, 1 in) tall.[24]" That certain something is "and is 155 cm (5 ft, 1 in) tall.[24]" Please, that is false information, and completely unconfirmed. Not to mention I personally find it very insulting, as a 165cm guy, so not only is this false information, but it's insulting and a mockery toward short people. If you aren't gonna respond to my first comment where I link several sources to debunk 155cm Mario as well as showing my math, then I have only few things to assume, either you don't care about short people's feelings and think this is a canon thing just cuz Matpat said so, or no one saw my last comment. Now don't get after me for being peeved when making this comment, ya didn't respond to the last in anyway, either show me an actually valid source that isn't the stupid statue, or get rid of that one quote. Please please please please please, It's soooooo annoying when people say Mario is 155cm, and the fact the freakin' Mario wiki is saying this, I'm not surprised, they got Larry's height way wrong, and I had to go in there and fix it and state that Larry is actually shorter than Mario and is in no way the same size as freakin' Peach, which was the dumbest oversight I've seen. I'm not trying to be mean or rude, I'm just peeved that "and is 155 cm (5ft, 1 in) tall." remains on Mario's page, and the fact I was never given any response for my last comment, what, you want to keep claiming Mario is 5 feet yet at the same time, you know my math and my sources probably debunk that by a landslide? Oh dear I really apologize about the anger on this... GoldyFish110 (talk) 23? I think, I forgot to change the day so I guess I won't know, June 2019
 * First of all, if you feel insulted by a fictional character's height, yet you are taller yourself and people can actually be shorter, you might need to rethink something. People can be various heights, and Mario's 5'1" is certainly possible. There's nothing insulting here in the slightest.
 * Second, yes, the only source we have for that statement is a Kotaku article, which isn't the most credible source. Not only that, but the page being referenced is actually dead! If you can find something better, that would help.
 * Third, Mario is, again, a fictional character. His height fluctuates based on the game. Sonic is confirmed to be 3'3", yet Mario can stand about the same height in the Olympic Games. Even if he has a confirmed height or not, it doesn't really matter in terms of gameplay. 11:24, June 24, 2019 (EDT)
 * I agree with Alex95! It's subjective! -- 12:32, June 24, 2019 (EDT)
 * Well, 165cm is 5'05" and that is short, and yes, it's taller than 5'01" but how much taller? And it must be worse for people who are also full grown adults, but shorter than me, right, because of a certain reason, Honestly... I feel insulted by a fictional character's height being claimed to be over 5 feet because of how Mario was depicted next to realistic people, so this is why I feel insulted by that - https://cdn.newsday.com/polopoly_fs/1.14592066.1508804067!/httpImage/image.jpeg_gen/derivatives/landscape_768/image.jpeg and this - https://cdn.gamerant.com/wp-content/uploads/super-mario-odyssey-miyamoto-worry-new-donk-city.jpg.optimal.jpg now look at that, say Mario is 5'01" and tell me that doesn't sound like an insult or jab at people who are below 6 feet tall, just look at that, my calculations with heads, and the two sources I sent and tell me they didn't at the very least retcon Mario somehow being 5 feet, he's like, a little taller than a freakin' hydrant for crying out loud. Also, how is Mario being 155cm possible? I don't get it, I did all the math I could, and he's never that tall, compare him to objects and he's always shorter than 5 feet, and actually, when you pay attention, Mario's height is surprisingly consistent... with not being 5 feet, but rather, around the 3 foot mark. And with the heads thing, measuring Mario how I was told to by one of the articles "I thought that we needed a scale that was easy to understand. Users will wonder how high Mario can jump and how far he can fall. We thought that it would be easier for users to understand and relate to the world in which they actually live. Mario is a strong enough character that he fits in just fine in a realistic environment." They said for measuring his jump height, but I use that for measuring his Mario height, I compare him to the realistic people, and the realistic people happen to be 7.05 heads tall when T-Posed, I'm 7.22 heads tall, and I'm 5'05" and because of this, I must be taller than the New Donkers, and my estimate is that they're about 5'03" and I got 92cm (3'00") for Mario's height given the size in heads of myself and the New Donker, I must be taller than the New Donker, while I don't think my measurements were super efficient given I was forced to use imperial measurements because I didn't have a metric measuring tape and I don't actually know anyone who is 7.05 heads tall, but at the very least it makes more sense than saying he's 5'01" cuz statue said so, at least, that's the only source I know of that say's he's 5'01" and even then, there is a "Life Size" Mario Plush that is 48 inches, Also, I'm insulted because I'm short, I'm classified as short, and so is 5'01" because 5'05" is only like, what, 4 inches taller, 10cm taller. So yes, I'm taller, but not much, and I'm still classified as short...

And well, about finding something better, I did find something better, but it doesn't really confirm Mario's height, it just confirms he isn't 5 feet, it was those two sources... And I apologize for making a large comment, I can't freaking stand this, and I really don't think there is any "confirmation" and if that article said anything, can you tell me who said the supposed height of Mario?

Okay EDIT: I took a look at the dead link's name (as in, hovered the mouse over it) and SIGH, that's just the "Life-Sized" Mario statue, and as I said before, "Life-Sized" Mario plush, and it's a completely different height, as far as I'm aware, Mario doesn't have an officially canon height, but is likely around 3 feet tall, as I calculated him to be 92cm tall. GoldyFish110 (talk) 24 June 2019
 * I don't see how this is insulting, it's more supposed to be humorous. Mario's always been on the short side, but I don't really know why they went with realistic proportions for the New Donkers. Probably because of Pauline ( it also resembles Sonic '06 ). The Mario world is weird, there's no real set canon height for anything.
 * As for where the claim initially came from... Only thing coming to mind is Game Theory. I don't know what the Kotaku article said, or if they had an official story. Searching "Mario's official height" in Google doesn't help, neither does Wikipedia. I'm leaving the dead link template next to the source anyway, in hopes it can be replaced or updated later.
 * I don't think 5'5" is short, I think that's pretty average. 14:30, June 24, 2019 (EDT)
 * Actually, one of the articles I sent explains why they went with the realistic proportions for the New Donkers, I'll link it again - https://gonintendo.com/stories/293589-super-mario-odyssey-director-explains-why-new-donk-city-takes-a-r and there is this source too, but it doesn't explain anything - https://gamerant.com/super-mario-odyssey-miyamoto-worry-new-donk-city/ where Miyamoto says "Where Mario is THIS Tall and Normal People are just a little bit taller" Though perhaps you aren't listening to them because they're bad sources? Tell me, do these sources seem valid? I decided to never go with Nintendo Life sources, however, because they tried to trick people into thinking the next Cuphead game was gonna be in an anime art style. And this - https://www.ebay.com/p/Nintendo-Licensed-Giant-Life-Size-Super-Mario-48-4ft-Plush-Doll-Toy-Very-RARE/2256117198 just sort of shows why it's a bad idea to go with the statue height thing, heheh. And to be honest, what I was thinking about when people say Mario is 5'01" and I look at New Donk City, I think about a Theadore Roosevelt political cartoon drawing where for some reason they depicted him as being way cartoonishly short, and I didn't find it funny. Also, I think my height, being 165cm, it is actually short, at least in America, where I lived all my life, until now (I'm Finally free) I was much shorter than everyone there, though I didn't look too much shorter or feel too much shorter, I was just short, and I mostly only ever compared to the girls in height, even then they were taller than me for the most part, oh, and American School was the same place the teacher showed me that political art, where everyone was taller than me and I noticed it much more, and the political art making fun of short heights, that got to me, and currently living in Czech, my height doesn't feel much different around people at stores and such, I still feel like a short stack. Also, I did my calculations, and this is my math I did - https://ibb.co/WKMm22j and to be honest, with no actual confirmation on the character's height, does the height really need to be on the page? It really isn't true as far as I'm aware, and I also had problems a while back with people claiming Larry Koopa was the same size as Princess Peach, arguing with the Larry Koopa fan who probably knew what he was talking about when saying that Larry is actually shorter than Mario, from what I calculated, Larry seems to be around 74cm, or 2'05" (with pixel measurements in the 3DS Mario and Luigi games given those are my favorite games and I gave up long ago trying to calculate every single height, and I only really need one Larry Koopa height for my fan game starring Larry given I want to put him next to anime characters who have confirmed heights of their own, I even got Ludwig's official voice actor from Mario Kart 8 in it, and it was cool), and yeah, about Game Theory, that made it worse actually, and it made me miserable for a while debating the height, because people would toss my calculations aside and tell me "YA DIDN'T EVEN TRY ONLY HATIN ON MATPAT CUZ NO ONE BUT MATPAT CAN DO MATH" "U RUSHED THAT CUZ MATPAT'S IQ OF 140 PROVES HE'S RIGHT ABOUT EVERY SINGLE THING OF ALL TIME AND UR POSSIBLE IQ OF 118 DOESN'T COMPARE" and so on, though I can tell them just because Matpat is smart doesn't mean he can't make a mistake, I even more than triple-check my work and they accuse me of rushing it, lol. I actually feel like I legit want to call Miyamoto on a phone or something and ask him myself how tall is Mario, just to end the debates, lol, though perhaps that's going too far, and I don't even know if Miyamoto can speak English. Though the rest of that stuff aside, the political cartoon, sometimes jokes are funny, but I don't see how this is, it's just saying "look, see that dwarf, he's 5 feet, just like you short people! hahahaha!" maybe they should make a tall person joke and say "he's over 6 feet tall" yet display him as around twice the normal people's sizes.
 * GoldyFish110 (talk) 24 June 2019
 * Yeah, interviews are proper sources. I don't believe the Game Theory (or any of the theories), but it's popular. See this for example. It gets around.
 * Anyway, your point is completely lost on me here in the midst of this large wall of text. I already agreed what we have on Mario's height is debatable, but I'd rather we find a new source that confirms something than outright remove the one we already have. New Donk isn't the first time Mario's stepped into realistic worlds, either; take the various episodes of The Super Mario Bros. Super Show and The Adventures of Super Mario Bros. 3.
 * Miyamoto knows some English, but not a lot. I think he can understand it, but can't really hold a conversation with it. 15:37, June 24, 2019 (EDT)
 * oh, I apologize for making it so large, heheh, though I think that if Mario doesn't have a confirmed height, why bother put his height on the page to begin with, heheh, is it really nessessary? and not to mention the dead link, it used the statue as the source (some vandalizer that watches Game Theory must have put it there if you don't know anything about it), and the statue can easily be proven to be a really bad source because of this - https://www.ebay.com/p/Nintendo-Licensed-Giant-Life-Size-Super-Mario-48-4ft-Plush-Doll-Toy-Very-RARE/2256117198 also, the TV shows aren't really canon, so I don't count them, heheh. And I did calculations using the two sources, this is what I got for Mario's accurate height - https://ibb.co/WKMm22j and I would like to ask Miyamoto if this is correct, heheh, and just simply that. Also, I became so obsessed with Mario character heights because of both Game Theory making a horrible theory on New Donk City and I'm making a fangame starring Larry Koopa, and I needed an actual height for Larry, given I'm going to put him next to anime characters with confirmed heights of their own, and he'd look bizarre at around 4 feet, not to mention I don't believe Mario is 5 feet to begin with, oh, and also, I managed to get Ludwig's official Mario Kart 8 voice actor in my fan game to voice Ludwig, and it was cool, and very fun. GoldyFish110 (talk) 24 June 2019
 * Looking at the reason why you're asking, I can assure you that Mario's height is the least concern. You can draw or model Larry as being as tall as Mario and you'd still agree with official material or . If anything, New Donk City and Mario & Sonic reconfirmed how relatively important is Mario's size.--Mister Wu (talk) 17:12, June 24, 2019 (EDT)
 * I'm not sure what's to get so worked up on a source. Maybe we should change the language to "Mario's height is suggested to be 5'1'' tall, but other sources have a disparity on the height, such as the comic of a guy smacking a small Mario around, Mario being really short to New Donkers, and Mario being more 'normal' in cartoon". Mario's height is similar to its relationship to Bowser's height, being wildly inconsistent. But what is established in official bios is that Mario is intended to be shorter than normal, such as the reference to "little Mario" in the original Donkey Kong, Mei Ling referring to Mario on "the short side", the cartoon bio calling him the "the shortest, chubbiest, most comedic-looking superhero ever to have his own show," and likely more that I missed, such as the "shorty" insults. Also, we don't dismiss sources for not being "canon", Mario has no canon, so official information should always be taken into account. Not arguing that the cartoon sources are the de facto information, but if they do list a specific height for him, we have to document it. Calculations in of themselves require a lot of assumptions to be made (such as when calculating a New Donker height) and you also had to ad hoc assumptions about the possibility of a statue being vandalized, which is not good thinking. The best way to go around, IMO, is to just apply Occam's Razor and document size disparities, rewrite the sentence that implies that Mario's height is confirmed 155cm and just way it's one of the few precise sources but most are ambiguous and inconsistent like Bowser's height in relation to Mario's. 18:02, June 24, 2019 (EDT)
 * Okay, I apologize if I seemed too direct and mean, I really don't want to be, I just want to get my point across, just saying, you should still dismiss all "Life Size" Statues, figures, whatever, because as I've said before, there is a "Life Size" Mario Plush that stands at 4 Feet tall, and none of those statues seem to be the same height, heck, I even found a 4 foot Mario statue, a really old one, and it still says "Life Size" heheh. I think that "Life Size" in statues just means that it's a large size, like, Human-sized. And, while yes, I did have to assume the New Donker's heads were also roughly 9 inches, the assumption didn't inherently ruin the calculations, because while yes, the head size was assumed, but if they are around 7.05 heads tall, and I'm around 7.22 heads tall, and I'm 165cm, shouldn't the New Donker's NOT be taller than me? And 9 inches would be a very close head size for them when they have a very close height in heads to what I have. Given it takes less of their own head to make their full height, very slightly less of their own head than for me, but less of their own head nonetheless, and shouldn't their head size be a fraction smaller than my own if anything? My calculations would have been better if I knew someone just a little shorter than me with a height of 7.05 heads, but I mean, they aren't terrible, of course, I'm not asking to say Mario's height is what I calculated, because I'm aware that it is unconfirmed, I'm asking that Mario's height is removed entirely (and as I explained, the plush is also "Life Size" so Life Size in merch probably just means large sized and like a human in height)and if Mario's height is really something inconsistent, why have a height for him on the page? Ah well, I think I can edit this page now, probably because I was annoying about it (I apologize for being annoying about it, but thanks for granting me access to editing the page, I saw what was done there, the statue was swapped in for a different one that was close in size, but as I explained before, the plush, but is it okay if I just, remove Mario's height entirely, I really don't think that "Life Size" is meant to be taken literally, and is it okay if I just remove it myself now? I just wanna make sure I'm not doing anyone wrong by removing it) GoldyFish110 (talk) 25 June 2019


 * Mister Wu, I mean, if I said that if I made Larry 4 feet, it'll look bizarre, why would I make him 5 feet or bigger, that'll look worse, heheh, not trying to be rude or anything, just saying, and going "underboard" would not agree with official material, now would it. He mostly is shorter than Mario on average with most of his heights, so I'm just gonna say shorter than Mario, though it would be a great idea to calculate all his heights and figure out which one is the average, actually, then I'll change his height again in my fan game, I think Color Splash is the only exception to that rule actually (and the concept art, but he's smaller in the actual game), but that's Paper Larry, heheh, and Paper Jam pretty much established that the Paper characters are completely different from the regular characters, and even then, the sprite size is shorter, so I don't exactly know how tall Color Splash Larry is because Paper Mario decided to do me dirty by re-sizing the plane, lol. And if Mario doesn't have a truly canon height (which I agree with), why would I use a height that is around 5 feet? Just because there are statues around 5 feet? But there is a Plush that is around 4 feet. Yeah, Mario has no canon, but I still think there are standards, such as things that Nintendo have very little involvement with should not be included (this includes the cartoons) and you shouldn't take a statue height seriously. EDIT: Also, How is the height the least of my concern when I'm putting Larry next to anime characters with confirmed heights to begin with? I can't just slap 'im in there and put him at whatever random height he ends up being, I'll end up with inconsistency, and that's the last thing I'd want to deal with, heheh. GoldyFish110 (talk) 25 June 2019


 * And oh dear, I apologize for all this writing. GoldyFish110 (talk) 25 June 2019
 * See, you're making assumptions on how tall a New Donker is (no, seriously, you don't actually know how truly tall a New Donker is; relative sizes are only part of the picture) and then working on their proportions without knowing how tall they actually are. I think life-size isn't just large, it's supposed to be how Mario is sized in real life. If there are several officially licensed products disagreeing with each other, we should mention it in the article. Again, the entire point is to show that Mario's height is inconsistent, and the evidence provided reinforces that point more. My solution was to change the writing that's at odds with conflicting sources to be more line with the conflicting sources. Don't remove the source, add others and rewrite the section. 14:39, June 25, 2019 (EDT)
 * Thing is, I have a T-posed model of the New Donker, so I wasn't just using screenshots, and I ripped the New Donker from a Gmod addon and I worked on their proportions and made an estimate (or an educated guess, I think) of how tall they are based on their size in heads, and my own size in head, it's not a perfect estimate, but I personally don't think it's that bad given the head size would have to be such a small difference. I also found two interviews, one where Yoshiaki Koizumi was interviewed, and one where Shigeru Miyamoto was interviewed, and Yoshiaki Koizumi flat out says that New Donk City was realistic because they thought it would be easier on the user to measure how high Mario can jump and how far he can fall when compared to the people that the users live around, implying that they definitely payed close attention to how tall they were making the people and their realistic proportions so that users can get an idea of how high Mario's jump is, and it isn't far off to use this for his own height, right, which is what I did, otherwise, if they just didn't care, slap Mario into the realistic world, then they probably wouldn't tell us to compare him to the realistic humans. Yes, Mario's height is usually inconsistent, and they usually don't care about how tall they make Mario, just as long as he fits, but this time, I think they did care, This time, I think they cared because they wanted to show off Mario's true abilities, I apologize if I sound rude or anything, I don't want to be. I should probably link some more new found sources of "Life Size" Mario's, heheh, since I found a bunch - https://www.ebay.com/itm/Deluxe-Super-Mario-Nintendo-Statue-Figur-1-1-Replica-Life-Size-ca-50-cm/113736739548?epid=1633578282&hash=item1a7b3ceadc:g:gJwAAOSwCkZZTNOD I also found this - https://www.ebay.com/itm/Giant-Life-Size-Super-Mario-Plush-Soft-Toy-Around-3ft-Tall-Jumbo-Gamer-Gift-NWT/143216777245?hash=item215862981d:g:zHwAAOSwRXhctOyN, and, I mean, I'm not the type who will completely emit all information that goes against me saying he's below 5 feet, I just don't think he's 5 feet or taller, but - https://www.ebay.com/itm/MARIO-MARIO-BROTHERS-65-Tall-Life-Size-CARDBOARD-CUTOUT-Standee/333126264095?hash=item4d8fdf651f:g:PTIAAOSwGFZck--B (And it's the most insulting height I've seen for Mario), it's the exact same height as myself (165cm) Though I did see the latest edit on the page, and thank you for acknowledging the 4 foot tall plush, but I guess since I'm found all this, and may find more, would it be okay if I just, put all the "Life Size" merch on the physical description, say "According to the height of his life-size figure, he is 150 cm (4 ft, 11 in) tall,[24] though other life-size merchandise depict Mario as shorter at 122 cm (4 feet tall)[source for the 4 foot tall plush], though it doesn't end there as there is also other life size merchandise that seem to imply all kinds of different heights, such as 50 cm (1 ft, 7.6in)[source of 50 cm figure] (Oh my gosh, this one's ridiculous, about as ridiculous as the 5 foot Marios, I mean, I believe he's under 5 feet and abnormally short, but not this short, heheh, I do have standards), 3 feet [source of the 3 foot tall plush] (Perfect, because 3 feet is 92 cm, and as I calculated...), 155cm [I'll try to find a new source for this](the most popular height, and I don't like it), and 65 inches (5 ft, 5 in)[source of cutout](ouch), Though official interviews seem to imply that New Donk City was made realistic so that players can measure Mario's abilities by comparison to the people they live around[source of the Why New Donk City took a realistic approach source I sent], even one debunking a popular fan theory [link to Super Mario Odyssey's GIANT Problem, by game theory] by implying that the New Donkers are "Normal People"[source of the Miyamoto was worried about how players would react to seeing New Donk City that I sent], which, in theory, should possibly put Mario at about 3 feet tall in Super Mario Odyssey." So, without all my comments, how's this? Eeeh, I just think adding that he is depicted as 50cm in a life size merch just isn't right, while saying he's over 5 feet is weird in my opinion, saying he's 50 cm is also so weird, and I can't stop questioning this. And I really feel like that source may come off as mocking, but I'm really not trying to be, and I apologize greatly if it does come off as mocking, I really am not trying to mock anyone, it's just, it says "Life Size" on it, and it's 50 cm, and ehhhh, okay I should stop typing, and I apologize for the lengthy comment... Oh, but about Smash Bros, I think no one is to scale compared to characters that are not from the same series, I mean, look at Kirby, he was confirmed to be 20cm (8 inches) yet he's not really tiny by comparison to other characters, and again, I apologize for the lengthy comment, should I make the edit as the quote I made, and any suggestions on wording things differently? GoldyFish110 (talk) 25 June 2019
 * Let's put it clearly: trying to find a common height from the games for your own works . The size of Mario and the others vary from game to game, you can't extrapolate some kind of "right" height, not even in relative terms. You just need to do what Nintendo does, adapting the height to what you are making so that it works best. Of course, you might want to use the  and , but Nintendo couldn't care less about following these if they go against what they are doing (mostly, if they negatively affect gameplay or the animations). You absolutely need not to worry about this, it's a non-exisitng problem. As far as the main page is concerned, considering the great variability in the height of the life-size statues, that case was just one among many different ones that got picked up because of gaming journalism. If you really want to keep that kind of info, list the minimum height and maximum height found for those life-size figures, with references, but I wouldn't go beyond that, it would really clutter the page with what is basically trivia outside of the trivia section.--Mister Wu (talk) 21:19, June 25, 2019 (EDT)
 * https://rationalwiki.org/w/images/9/97/Goodpost.gif 23:56, June 25, 2019 (EDT)

Ok, I know this isn't the place to ask this but...
I'm new to this wiki, how do I create a page? Do I have to earn those rights? Please help.


 * You will become autoconfirmed after you make 10 edits and have an account for at least 7 days. -- 15:13, July 14, 2019 (EDT)

Re: Mario's Playschool
While searching for proof that the name was used as an alternate release name for Mario's Early Years! Preschool Fun, I thought of something: Would the international release having a different name count as a separate entry, or would it be possible to combine the entries somehow? -- 00:42, July 22, 2019 (EDT)
 * Especially in the past, it wasn't unusual that the Japanese names of the "Mario" games were different from the corresponding Western names (e.g. Yoshi's Road Hunting, Super Mario Collection, Mario Story, Mario & Luigi RPG), this alone didn't warrant a separate entry. If there are significant differences in terms of content, then I think a new entry can be considered.--Mister Wu (talk) 12:18, July 22, 2019 (EDT)

Flappy Bird
It is recommended to add his appearance in Flappy Bird. He only shows up when you get a score of 999.


 * He doesn't, that's from a fake video. 21:18, February 15, 2020 (EST)

Religion
I recommend that we should add that Mario is a Muslim. Miyamoto specifically said that Mario was a Muslim when he was interviewed by the king of Saudi Arabia on his trip to Mecca. Please add this!!!
 * Please provide a source for this claim. 20:26, May 4, 2020 (EDT)
 * That is definitely just a stupid meme, but apparently he is ACTUALLY Christian, Jewish, and Muslim according to the Mario Quiz Cards. Grandet Omate (talk) 22:21, July 26, 2020 (EDT)

Mario's hair
Hey, um, I've been reading all this info, and this probably isn't a big deal, but I'm curious why in the section describing Mario's physical appearance it doesn't mention him gaining realistic hair in games starting with Super Mario Odyssey. It it because of how the level of detail to his har still is different between appearance, or is this just something that's never been brought up?--70.126.227.39 16:04, May 6, 2020 (EDT)
 * The thing is that Mario still has the exact same hairstyle, except now much more realistic in Odyssey. Then you come to the issue that Odyssey is actually the only game to have that level of detail in Mario's artwork. Mario Tennis Aces and Super Mario Party artwork gives Mario more detailed hair than normal, but nowhere near to Odyssey. Even that seems like it's mostly been dropped, with NSMBU Deluxe and Mario Maker 2 returning to the old level of detail. -- 17:46, May 6, 2020 (EDT)

Okay, in U Deluxe and Maker 2, that seems to be more of a case to keep consistent with the original games (or in Maker 2's case, the in-game models) than because it's been dropped, because Nintendo is still using the detailed hair in newer, marketing artwork and games like Tokyo 2020. But thank you for explaining why the information isn't listed in the wiki page, I've been curious on it for a while!--70.126.227.39 18:29, May 6, 2020 (EDT)
 * You're welcome - for what it's worth, Mario only has the somewhat more detailed hair in the artwork used on the game's cover but none of his other artwork for that game. -- 19:05, May 6, 2020 (EDT)
 * To be fair, SMM2 uses the same model he had in NSMBW, over 10 years ago. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 19:17, May 6, 2020 (EDT)

split.
jumpman is not mario
 * He absolutely is. The arcade flyer called him Mario, as did home port manuals. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 17:27, June 6, 2020 (EDT)

"Vulgar Tendencies"
Listen, there's just something that strikes me a little odd under the Personality section. There is a moderately long list of "vulgar" actions Mario has taken throughout his portrayals. These include urinating on Yoshi, passing gas, but smack dab in the middle of this list is "cross-dressing several times". Is this referring to his dress in Odyssey? This implies it's some kind of Super Mario Perversion or something and the way it's put right between farting and pissing is just kind of insulting. I know this will be written off as meaningless offence taken by something inconspicuous, but you have to admit the way it's put is insulting and can be taken as transphobic. Mario wears it like any other outfit, how exactly is that vulgar? It's not even displayed as a joke in-game, he's just doing it because he thinks it looks neat. I can't think of any other times he's been drawn in feminine clothing but they were probably just cliche guy-in-women's-clothing jokes, and I can't imagine they'd be canon. --75.185.75.178 21:57, July 26, 2020 (EDT)

I don't know what you’re trying to say, but there is this: Grandet Omate (talk) 22:12, July 26, 2020 (EDT)
 * That one was unintentional. The actual reference is to the Kodansha Manga, which had him dressing as Sailor Moon characters while dirty jokes are going on, among other things. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 01:27, July 27, 2020 (EDT)
 * Okay that's great and all now go ahead and erase it please. I'd think more effort would be put into making this article more professional since it's about the mascot of the entire series but whatever 75.185.75.178 22:24, July 28, 2020 (EDT)

Mario's latest appearance
It says Mario's Most recent appearance was Paper Mario: The Origami King, But actually it was Tetris 99 (TETRIS x Paper Mario: The Origami King event and cameo) (2020)


 * Technically Mario already appeared in the game through the SMB and Donkey Kong themes, so a second/third/etc. appearance in the same game doesn't count. 02:54, August 2, 2020 (EDT)

Proposal to Add Citation to Mario#Personality
Towards the top of Personality's content (4.1), there's a missing citation. I'm requesting we cite an interview regarding Mario's 20th Anniversary, where Miyamoto provides the uncited information.

Here's the URL: http://shmuplations.com/mario20th/

...and here's a quote from the interview:

—How do you think Mario has become such a big phenomenon?

''Miyamoto: I think it was fortuitous that we didn’t put any restrictions on Mario as a character. Normally when you create a character and present him to the world, all the details get filled in: what’s his favorite color? what kind of food does he like to eat? But with Mario, aside from the fact that he’s about 24-25 years old, we didn’t define anything else. The reason why is that we wanted to be able to use Mario in later games, and that wouldn’t work so well if he had characteristics that interfered with a given game’s story. When we make a game we take care not to add incongruencies to that game’s world. With that caveat in mind, I’d like to keep using Mario in future games.''

Thanks in advance!

OneShookBoi (talk) 11:43, 29 October 2020 (CST)
 * Added, thank you! 17:16, October 29, 2020 (EDT)

I'm unable to edit this page myself, sooo...
Since I am still unable to edit Mario's page (I think I was told I had to make 10 edits or something before I could) I still think that "According to the height of his life-size figure, he is 150 cm (4 ft 11 in.) tall,[24] though other life-size merchandise depict Mario as shorter at 122 cm (4 ft) tall.[citation needed]" (as for citations on that, there are multiple - https://www.mercari.com/us/item/m40074925704/ and - https://www.ebay.com/i/163892265533?rt=nc&_trkparms=aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D20160908110712%26meid%3Dbc1e3505ec894f1e99e9ba8096433bc2%26pid%3D100677%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D30%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D193151746661%26itm%3D163892265533%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2386202%26algv%3DDefaultOrganic%26brand%3DNintendo and - https://www.ebay.com/i/193151746661?chn=ps&mkevt=1&mkcid=28) should not be present on the page. (If you guys REALLY think it's worth taking literally and documenting, I'd say for the least false information spread, that you put it on trivia, or something, but I don't like when this wiki has something wrong, because then people keep spouting it over and over, like, I kept constantly hearing "Larry is the same size as Princess Peach" even though I've counted across multiple games that Larry is consistently always shorter than Mario, though how much shorter fluctuates) Because as I've said before, this is the Mario wiki, and it shouldn't be treating those statues like it's Mario's actual height, that's like saying the 3 foot Life Size Pooh Bear plush is Pooh Bear's canon height as well as the 48 inch Life Size cardboard cutout of Pooh Bear and the 60 inch Life Size cardboard cutout of Pooh Bear, and then claiming Pooh Bear's height is inconsistent and should not be accounted for (when someone needs Pooh Bear's height to actually have a scale for something that isn't up and down all over the place, like, I don't think the people here understand how that works in game development, you literally need a scale to work with for what I'm doing) for the reason of taking "Life Size" in all that literally. Especially when these - https://gonintendo.com/stories/293589-super-mario-odyssey-director-explains-why-new-donk-city-takes-a-r and - https://gamingbolt.com/super-mario-odyssey-miyamoto-was-worried-about-initial-reaction are much better sources, sure, they never reveal the exact number for Mario's height, but they imply that Mario is likely around the size of Sonic. (And they should be documented on this page) Obviously I'm not asking to document any of my calculations, since they are not official sources, but my calcs on New Donk City - https://ibb.co/RCmmMT4 and there is this, which flat out uses the centimeters in Origami King - https://twitter.com/LarryKoopaBest/status/1290236094911361024/photo/1) And as for Mario and Sonic models, at least the Tokyo 2020, I compared Mario to Sonic making Mario 103.3cm, which is very close to what I calculated with the Monster Fish of the Great Sea (Albeit the Monster Fish of the Great Sea was not a good source of measurement considering the Monster Fish of Shogan Studios using the same fish size and is labelled 300cm instead of 400cm, and the little ones are not to scale with each other, but it's just as bad a source as using the meter count to scale Mario's height, my calcs there are also badly measured too, since I didn't have any exacts to compare) I'm sorry for bothering you guys about this, it bothers me so much, and I guess I can't really let it go. (Due to covid19, I am even more unable to book a flight to Japan to ask Miyamoto what Mario's height is, and probably explain why it matters to me, lol) But the reason this continues to bother me is because of when this wiki spreads false information and people constantly flock to it. Mario's height was never revealed and there should be nothing but those interviews written about it, say, the following interviews with Kenta Motokura and Shigeru Miyamoto imply Mario is a pretty short person, or something... And yes, this bothers me partially because of my own height "Look at Mario, he's on the shorter end of 5 feet tall, just like you! Look at him next to those normal 6 foot people!" and I see Mario in New Donk City half the size of the people. But regardless of my own height, which people that aren't kids over 5 and a half feet couldn't possibly understand, the thing that bothers me more is the spread of misinformation and people constantly flocking to this and game theory when saying my calculations are bad, and I mean, they aren't perfect, but claiming they're terrible cuz I didn't say Mario is five feet cuz this and game theory bothers me so much. (GT mostly)

~ Goldyfish110
 * He has an "official" height, though. In the games, it's just as inconsistent as anyone else's, but his "base" height used for miscellaneous materials is relatively constant. Also, your message was long enough without going on a random tangent to Mr. Bear. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 13:26, November 5, 2020 (EST)
 * To be fair though, that life size adjective was very likely referring to the merchandise being near the height of the child owning it, not a statement that the merchandise is the exact size of Mario. I'd be fine with removing the information about Mario's "canonical" height in feet/centimeters.--Mister Wu (talk) 13:50, November 5, 2020 (EST)
 * Thank you, that's what I've been trying to say this whole time. They mean "Life Size" in that it is a big size almost the size of the child or whoever that it's made to be around, so it's "Life like" Also, Doc von Schemltwick, what is Mario's "official" height in games? I thought his height was never specified as any number. I do know they make him 1.53 units in Odyssey and 1.60 units in Smash 3DS, and then there are others I haven't specified, but Sonic is officially stated as 1 meter yet he's 1.50 units in Mario and Sonic, if I remember correctly. I also don't think the units should count as centimeters, and just using units for scale doesn't work with trying to scale Mario characters next to non-Mario characters, I'd rather scale non-Mario characters by comparison to Larry himself, who currently I have at a 78.7cm height in my game. However, if you need me to quote the interviews since I saw someone quoting an interview earlier.


 * Kenta Motokura (talking about New Donk City): I thought that we needed a scale that was easy to understand. Users will wonder how high Mario can jump and how far he can fall. We thought that it would be easier for users to understand and relate to the world in which they actually live. Mario is a strong enough character that he fits in just fine in a realistic environment.


 * Shigeru Miyamoto (talking about New Donk City): I was worried about how players would react to being in a world where Mario is this tall and normal people are a little bit taller. Or the fact that people don’t get mad at Mario when he’s jumping up and down all over the place. But with all that said, I think I realized that the character Pauline has already existed, and the idea of this game taking place in the city worked out really well. And so we ran with it.


 * I personally think the following interview answers have more validity as sources to them than the statues do.


 * --GoldyFish110 (talk) 14:07, November 5, 2020 (EST)
 * When I said that, I was referring primarily to the materials Nintendo gives to third parties when said third parties develop games, like that one relative height chart. The "official height" and "in the games" were two separate thoughts. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 14:46, November 5, 2020 (EST)
 * Then again, that is only Mario characters by comparison to each other, and I guess they don't need any particular numbers to make Mario characters by comparison to each other, but Madoka has an officially listed height of 152cm and I was wanting to scale Larry Koopa by comparison to Madoka accurate to the both them. https://youtu.be/jJOEvjtOp3k?t=47 So I hope maybe this helps you understand why I am wanting Mario's height in number, however, the entire time I've been here, I'm really not wanting to debate Mario's height, considering I already have my idea, All I'm asking is that the "Life Size" isn't taken literally and be removed from the page, because it is spreading false information and people flock to it without second thought because I guess that's just how the masses work for some reason. (They kept doing this constantly with "Larry is the same size as Princess Peach" until I finally came in and edited it) And I don't think the meter counts or even the Monster Fish of the Great Sea had any thought for scale put into them (Mario and Sonic probably did, however, because of Bowser in Wreck-it Ralph, Miyamoto, I believe, asked that Bowser's height be changed in the Wreck-it Ralph scene he was in) they're just numbers to be displayed on the screen. And for games created by a team, I doubt the whole team knows what Mario's height is nor even cares. But since I'm doing LarryDS mostly alone, I care.--GoldyFish110 (talk) 15:15, November 5, 2020 (EST)
 * I already agreed to remove it last time you brought this up, if our only available sources are third-party whatevers, so I'm for doing it now. Not sure why it wasn't already. And, again, you seem to be taking this way too personally. He's also the about the same height as Sonic, who is 3'3". 16:38, November 5, 2020 (EST)
 * Oh yeah, there is that too, but literally all I'm asking is Mario's height (the statues) to be removed. Because the definition of life size in that case isn't literal. And to say Mario is around 5 feet tall doesn't make sense with the interview on why New Donk City was designed to be realistic. Those other things such as Mario and Sonic or Smash Bros or Mario Odyssey can all stay, but the statues should go due to not actually being literal. I'm trying to be as non personal as possible with this response, I hope I'm not being too personal just by saying the statues should go...


 * Nevermind this whole thing, I was just able to edit the page. I'm sorry for starting this up, I was just being stupid, lol, I guess I am an auto-confirmed user, but I swear it didn't let me save my changes earlier. I'm sorry for all the this conversation and kinda wasting everyone's time, lmao!--GoldyFish110 (talk) 17:15, November 5, 2020 (EST)


 * Those statues are not a valid reference. As I've said time after time again, Life Size, in this context, is not literal and does not mean the official true height of Mario. What they mean by Life Size is that the size that it is for it's target audience is Life Like in size as it is big, almost like the person that owns it. People are brainless, they're gonna see that number and talk as if it's absolute fact, just like the "Larry is the same size as Princess Peach" thing that came from this wiki, people told me, the Larry fan, that I'm wrong because this wiki said otherwise, despite the fact that what I said is in their faces. (regardless of the "Mario does not have a specified height" you added. I am not satisfied with the current revision. Like I said, if those statues (which Life Size means nothing in them) HAVE to be documented, I'd say trivia, and it should be done alongside every other "Life Size" Mario merch, carefully researched to show that the fluctuation is way bigger than that (Life Size 50cm Mario figure), where it's out of the way, because those statues are called "Life Size" because they're big sized, not because they're supposedly other heights for Mario, is the best place to put it. (I can't believe the Mario wiki can't seem to grasp this simple concept that "Life Size" in this context is not literal) There is so much varying sizes in merchandise that it is simply ridiculous to list all as sources for Mario's height and as "proof" that Mario doesn't have a consistent height. Sure Mario's height isn't super consistent, but "Life Size" merchandise is not a valid source ever, and does not serve as a source for what Mario's height is or how inconsistent Mario's height is, as it is really more consistent than anyone gives it credit for, and the interviews on New Donk City only add to that. How about at LEAST documenting the interviews, and put it right in the physical description saying it implies Mario's height is around the size of Sonic, because that is where the "Life Size" merch is documented, and obviously if I make another edit, then I'm doing something wrong, because statue good because statue say "Life Size" or something.--GoldyFish110 (talk) 20:09, November 5, 2020 (EST)
 * Out of curiosity, what does the description actually say? Does it specifically say Mario is 150 cm tall or is that just the height of the product? I think we should still mention it, but if the description doesn't actually say that's how tall Mario is, we should reword the description to reflect that. -- 13:00, November 6, 2020 (EST)
 * The description says "According to an Amazon listing for the height of his life-size figure, he is 150 cm (4 ft 11 in.) tall.[24]" implying that according to the statue, that is how tall Mario is. But I believe it should at least not say "he is 150cm tall" because people are gonna think that is how tall Mario is, and I've gotten into debates over whether or not Larry was the same size as Princess Peach because this wiki claimed he was, even though he is not. Especially with that kind of source, no one really knows if "Life Size" in that context is literal or not, but I'm pretty sure it isn't, and I think it's rather inappropriate to be assuming it's literal without knowing for sure, because people are going to automatically assume it's 100% factual. I also believe that this wiki really should document the two interviews on New Donk City in the physical description saying that they imply Mario is around the size of Sonic or something, and according to Mario and Sonic, Mario is specifically 103.3cm (3ft 4inch tall) however, maybe I got that wrong. --GoldyFish110 (talk) 20:02, November 6, 2020 (EST)

Do I have permission to change this? I just want to make sure because it continues to bother me being on a wiki page...
Hi, is it okay that I change this

"While Mario is consistently portrayed as a short character, his precise height and proportions vary across media. According to an Amazon listing for the height of his life-size figure, he is 150 cm (4 ft 11 in.) tall.[27] Crossover artwork featuring Mario and Sonic the Hedgehog (who stands at 1 m / 3 ft 3 in.) shows Mario at around the same height as him, if not two or three inches shorter due to Sonic's quills. Mario's height relationship with other humans has been varied. Some media, such as Super Mario Odyssey and Mario's Time Machine, show Mario as much shorter than a realistic human, while others, including Mario Golf, the cartoons, and Super Smash Bros., show Mario's height closer relative to other humans. As far as in game information or other official materials are concerned, Mario does not have a specified height. "

Into this

"While Mario is consistently portrayed as a short character, his precise height and proportions vary across media. There is an amazon listing for a statue of Mario that is 150 cm (4 ft 11 in.) tall.[27] Although it says it's "Life Size" it is unclear if they mean it is just a big size by comparison to the buyer so it's life like or if it is actually meant to be Mario's height. Crossover artwork featuring Mario and Sonic the Hedgehog (who stands at 1 m / 3 ft 3 in.) shows Mario at around the same height as him, if not two or three inches shorter due to Sonic's quills. Although when models for Mario and Sonic at the Tokyo 2020 Olympic games are T-posed, Mario is a little bit taller than Sonic. Mario's height relationship with other humans has been varied. Some media, such as Super Mario Odyssey and Mario's Time Machine, show Mario as much shorter than a realistic human, while others, including Mario Golf, the cartoons, and Super Smash Bros., show Mario's height closer relative to other humans. While an interview with Odyssey's Director implies New Donk City was made for scaling Mario and his abilities while another interview with Miyamoto implies that the humans of New Donk City are normal people, this still does not directly confirm what Mario's height is, so as far as in game information or other official materials are concerned, Mario does not have a specified height. "

I know it's probably bothersome to the moderators and admin for me to ask this, but the Mario wiki REALLY can't be going around having information on their pages like the statue claiming to be directly confirmed as actual sources for Mario's height, and it also really should be documenting the interviews as they are actual sources that imply Mario's height, that's the way I see it. No, I'm not trying to be rude, no I'm not trying to be aggravated, no I'm not trying to be personal about it. --GoldyFish110 (talk) 01:12, November 12, 2020 (EST)

Think it's a good idea to condense plot summary
I've condensed the plot summary for Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga and I just linked for readers more interested in the plot to the main article. Does anyone find this a good way to trim the meat of these kinds of articles? Or should this go through a potential proposal process first? 02:14, November 26, 2020 (EST)
 * I've pretty much done the same thing in Baby Luigi's article, but without the main template. I really don't think you need every single nitty gritty involvement with the plot, just an overview of what they do, what their gameplay quirks are, and anything else. 02:19, November 26, 2020 (EST)
 * Should this standardization be wiki wide? I can try to run through a proposal if that's needed. 02:21, November 26, 2020 (EST)
 * It would definitely be helpful, for sure! GloverMist (talk) 14:22, November 26, 2020 (EST)
 * Agreed, we don't need to write every single thing a character does throughout the game, especially for major characters like Mario or Bowser who are obviously going to have a lot of information if we go that route. The plot section on the game's page should suffice. -- 14:29, November 26, 2020 (EST)
 * It is almost like rewriting the plot section of a game page. At best, there should be a brief mention of the plot and Mario's role, while mainly covering his abilities in said game (not going into too much detail about returning abilities however). Also, this page loads a lot slower than most other pages on this wiki.
 * Yeah, the page is a bandwidth hog. At some point, we're going to have to split off sections of their articles, Wikipedia-style, because at some point, it's going to be unsustainable to keep everything in one. 14:43, November 26, 2020 (EST)
 * I think that's definitely going to have to happen for some of these characters at some point. There's more trimming on history sections that can be done to shorten it a little, but Mario obviously appears in nearly every piece of media related to the franchise and it's not going to be getting any smaller. -- 14:47, November 26, 2020 (EST)
 * (edit conflict) All right. One thing I want to do is make a template, though. In the Superstar Saga section, the content looks like this.
 * For a complete plot summary, see the main article: Mario %26 Luigi: Superstar Saga
 * One of my issues is the possible repetitive links to the main page for the plot or if such a template is even needed (but I want to make it clear the plot has much more information in the main page). But yeah I think this does fall right in recommended by policy, so I hope I'm not, like, strong-arming whatever I think is appropriate through.😅
 * Also, splitting off the page has been suggested by policy itself, see Article size. However, there's no specific process outlined above when a page gets too long, and the sheer overwhelming size of the page probably makes it a mammoth task, which is probably why there's a contradiction between that policy and these pages. I think the history section would be a contender to get split from the page, but this is an unprecedented move and might require a proposal. We don't have to suggest a specific byte size but there probably is a reasonable range to go through and we could at least show this and other major characters' articles as examples to judge by as well as visible impact on loading time they have. 14:55, November 26, 2020 (EST)
 * I don't think that main template is necessary, since the section would already link to the main game article anyway. 14:59, November 26, 2020 (EST)