Talk:Princess Peach/Archive 1

Peach VS ToadStool
In Japan she was always called peach, Toadstool was a US made thing.

And what about that? Peach is her latest name now and Toadstool is her last name.

What is the source for her surname being Toadstool? Toadstool could be a sort of regnal name, or it could be her principality (Princess Toadstool being a shortened form of the Princess of Toadstool), or a sort of agnomen or unique title.

In SM64 (US), her letter to Mario closes with her official title, "Princess Toadstool," and she scrawls her personal name underneath. If Peach was part of her title, it would have been written in the same hand, on the same line, as Princess Toadstool. The fact that it was separate indicates that Peach is not part of her royal title, and should not be interpolated into "Princess Toadstool." --Toadstool Forever 00:02, 23 March 2007 (EDT)
 * Please, no speculation. The principality concept has never been supported and the separation can also be seen as a method to connect "Peach" with "Princess Toadstool" in the minds of US gamers.  In other words, there's no evience for either side.  16:59, 13 February 2008 (EST)

"--Toadstool Forever 00:02, 23 March 2007 (EDT)"

Sorry to say that, but you are kinda late =P. --Blitzwing 17:05, 13 February 2008 (EST)

Yeah, but what about English gamers? We've all known the name Princess Toadstool since the 80s. Personally, having grown up with Princess Toadstool since the NES days, I find it very hard to use the name Peach. It just does not come naturally, when she's always been Princess Toadstool in England. How dare they change it? I don't care what the name was in Japan - I'm talking about the English name!

By the way, there used to be a section title "From Peach to Toadstool" I think. The section is still there, but the title has gone, so anyone looking for that section will have to scroll down and manually find it. Maybe someone with better editing skills than me can put the title back in? Avengah 17:59, 28 February 2008 (EST)
 * Done.

Why us Peach listed as part of Bowser's family?
Why? --Klaus Kratchet 19 March 2007

The marriage thing in Super Paper Mario, I'm pretty sure it wasn't annuled or anything. -- Sir Grodus


 * Well, Peach does not consider it official, while Bowser does. So Bowser would consider her a part of his family, but Peach wouldn't.  So she should remain in the family section, but I don't think we should consider them still "married".  I am sure Bowser will try to wed her again (but make her see it as official too next time). ♥♪!? 20:22, 19 July 2007 (EDT)

Technically, Peach and Bowser aren't married anymore. Count Bleck said "Until your games be over". They both got a game over and sent to the Underwhere. Jellyfloater
 * Is the marriage referred to in the game in/after the Underwhere? Also, she was at least for some time "part" of Bowser's Family, she should be on the template in any case. - 05:19, 28 October 2007 (EDT)

She is in the category Humans
I don't think she is a human. A humanoind being, but is she not a Mushroom person? MamaWaluigi 23:16, 26 July 2007 (EDT)

I've never seen anything stating that. -- Sir Grodus

She is a human. She is 3/4 Human, and 1/4 Mushroom person. So, she belongs under Human.

When was it ever stated that she was human? MamaWaluigi 15:11, 27 July 2007 (EDT)

I don't think it was ever officially said; though her being a Mushroom Person was never said either, I'm quite sure. -- Sir Grodus
 * In Super Mario RPG, she has a Toad Grandmother. That's all we know. (in games, of course) - 15:16, 27 July 2007 (EDT)

I always thought it was an affectionate term, and that she's only a close friend of the family. And if she IS really a toad, why doesn't she have toad-like characteristics? (Though it's hard to imagine her with a mushroom cap as a head :P) Mumbles 21:20, 4 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Well, if you want to get technical, those are just hats, if I'm not mistaken. I do believe that there are some in-game references to them just being hats, not including the fact that Toads working at the Toad Town station all wore black ones, which seems uniformy.  At the very least they were in the animated series (Toad used his as a parachute once).  It's really of no import to the article, though.  She's human, she's part Toad.  21:44, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

Why is there preferences in characters?
Why should it say Luigi is very likely to return in Brawl and Peach not. We dont know if Luigi is returning so it should say its currently unknow if he will return.
 * At the Super Smash Bros. PipeProject, we are already trying to remove statements like "likely in Brawl, possibly in Brawl" etc. But are you talking about the Peach or the Luigi article? - 17:07, 31 July 2007 (EDT)


 * The Luigi article. Javier12345

Peach in the Koopa family?
Of course she's NOT in the Koopa family. She loves Mario and hates Bowser, because Bowser always makes her angry in any game she's kidnapped in. --PeachWoman
 * But Bowser married Peach in Super Paper Mario. Although it was a sham, Bowser still considers it official. Ignorance is Bliss :P

It probably is official, considering I doubt the Chaos Heart could've been summoned if it wasn't. P.S. Bowser is actually pretty nice to Princess Peach in PM and SPM. -- Sir Grodus

I know where you got that saying Pokemon DP. Ignorance is Bliss 20:50, 19 November 2007 (EST)

Peach appearence in Brawl
Is Peach shorter than Zelda in Brawl?. In melee they were more or less tha same height or no?. Javier12345

Nintendo tends to change a character's appearance from time to time. Since they gave Zelda the TP look, she became taller. 20:52, 4 August 2007 (EDT)
 * She was much shorter, several inches I'd say. 20:53, 4 August 2007 (EDT)

Blood
Isn't Princess Peach quarter Toad if her grandma is a Toad? 21:13, 7 August 2007 (EDT)
 * Yep. She is 3/4 Human, 1/4 Toad, not 2/4 Human, 2/4 Toad. I would fix it, but I don't know how to do those symbols :P

Oh, IDK... why does it have to be so complicated...

Shadow Queen Image
Though Fixitup keeps removing it, I propose that the picture to the right is kept on tha page, as it is significantly for Peach's appearance in Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door. - 16:15, 30 August 2007 (EDT)

YA RLY
 * I agree...

I didnt remove the image from the page, I just put it in the artwork section, for having one image per section and finally Peach's article can be featured.Javier12345
 * One image per section isn't a rule, I've never heard of it. The choice of images just needs to be selected. - 05:30, 21 November 2007 (EST)
 * Fixitup say that many images from the same game were bad, and the maximum images per section was two, so that made me think that he wanted one image per section and coincolletor also said one image per section. Sorry about that. Javier12345

Actually, I kinda like that picture of Peach... It isn't so...pink.

Peach Final Smash
is it true that during Peach final smash, peaches fall and Peach eats them??? and where was her final smash seen, please tell me. Javier12345
 * Uh, the official website...
 * Another reason why all comments on talk pages should be posted with a time stamp. Use ~ instead of ! It helps in certain cases to know from when a comment is. -  05:31, 28 October 2007 (EDT)

Still to do

 * 1) The sections for New Super Mario Bros., Super Princess Peach and especially Super Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time should be revised by a contributor who has played those games. As someone who hasn't, I find it pretty hard to follow the plot described. Remember to describe things in the order they happened, not the order they are seen in the game.
 * 2) The sections about Peach's appearance in the Cartoons and in the Nintendo Comics System should be expanded.
 * 3) The missing Bio from Mario Tennis and the missing information from Mario Golf: Toadstool Tour should be filled in.

- 14:09, 29 October 2007 (EDT)

I arleady fixed up the appearance section (removing opinions and correcting orthography). What else can I do?
 * It would be nice if you could do a job I can't, a.k.a. the above. We could also get rid of screenshots in the Screenshots section which don't have Peach in their main focus. They are not notable enough to be shown here. - 14:43, 29 October 2007 (EDT)

Mario & Sonic Infobox
Is there any specific reason to remove the Mario & Sonic box? Or are you voting for it to be removed from all pages? - 06:10, 30 October 2007 (EDT)
 * IMO, it should stay. We actually have the exact statistics on the characters from Mario & Sonic, unlike other sports titles, so this Infobox can work well. BTW, Cobold, Fixitup removed it for some reason, in case you want to know who removed it. I'm sure he'll give you a good reason why he did it.
 * Fixitup removed it, then Coincollector added it again, then Coincollector himself removed it yet again. That's why I'm confused. - 06:30, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

I can't tell why I removed the infobox again, but Fixitup removed all the tables because they were useless.
 * I had a look at the official website of Mario & Sonic, and it appears that there were never given exact numbers of the abilities, so I guess it goes okay. - 13:52, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

Sam Kelly
Is Samantha Kelly is the newest actor for Peach right? (She act as Peach for Mario Party 8 and Super Mario Galaxy. And maybe Toad and Toadette.) Princess Butterfly 15:25, 17 November 2007 (EST)
 * Yeah, Sam Kelly is Peach, Toad, and Toadette in the current games. UrsulaBoi 20:14, 17 November 2007 (EST)
 * Can I please have some proof.
 * The proof is in process of elimination. In Super Mario Galaxy, it lists five voice actors -- Charles Martinet, Sam Kelly, Caety Sagoian (Bowser Jr.), some guy who plays Bowser, and Mercedes Rose (Rosalina).  In Mario Party DS, it lists Sam Kelly again, right after Charles Martinet.  As it doesn't mention Nicole Mills, Leslie Swan, or Jen Taylor, in any of the Wii Mario games to date, it's safe to assume Samantha Kelly is the new voice actress for Peach and Toad.  Plus, the two characters' voices have changed since we saw Nicole Mills in the credit.  It's an assumption, yes, but a safe assumption. UrsulaBoi 11:51, 21 November 2007 (EST)
 * Sorry, I never played any of those games. Wikipedia never said anything about it, and stated Samantha Kelly was a fictional character. So, I assumed she wasn't real. Wikipedia now says she has a new voice actor, but they don't know who it is. -_-' OK, I suppose it is safe to assume.

Oh did she act Peach for Super Mario soccer charged? (I wonder what happpen to Mrs.Mills?) Princess Butterfly 10:08, 22 November 2007 (EST)
 * She was in the credits for Mario Strikers Charged, so I'm pretty sure she played Peach and Toad in it, but I haven't played the game so I can't be sure. I know she did Mario Party DS, Super Mario Galaxy, and Mario Party 8, because Peach and Toad sound similar in all three games.  It is weird that Mills isn't back, and I wonder what happened to Kelsey Hutchinson, who was supposed to be the new voice for Toad but only lasted for one game. UrsulaBoi 15:39, 22 November 2007 (EST)

I know this weird I wonder why. (Maybe the got new jobs or something.) First Jen, then Mills, hopefully not Sam. I think it safe to say that she is the new actor for Princess Peach Toadstool. Princess Butterfly 15:06, 24 November 2007 (EST)
 * I know one of them is currently pursuing live action films. You should take a look on imdb.com and see what you can find.
 * OK, I saw the proof, add it to the article. ;)

I heard that Jen Taylor is back as Princess Peach. She acted as Peach in Mario and Sonic... (Well I heard it on the wikipedia. I wonder if it's true?) Princess Butterfly 18:07, 13 January 2008 (EST)

Mario Party Team Names
Are these of relevance? - 16:04, 28 November 2007 (EST)

Super Mario Galaxy & Super Paper Mario sections
While there is a good job done in both sections, they still have a kind of narrative feeling. The big secrets and plans have to be worked in at the right place in the storyline, not be told at the end. We don't want to create tension like in the actual game. See the Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door section for an example of how to work out the right order of events. - 10:53, 3 December 2007 (EST)
 * Are those two sections the only ones that need to be improved or are there more???User:javier12345
 * Not at all. The spin-off sections mostly consist of lists of Peach's abilities, they can all be expanded, especially the one-sentence-per-game lines in the Miscellaneous Games section. Also, we don't have any information from Nintendo Comics System yet. - 09:44, 13 December 2007 (EST)
 * I expanded the Miscellaneous Games section, if i did something wrong be free to erase it.User:javier12345

From the previous nomination comments
User:Fly_Guy_2: What is so scttered about the images?
 * User:javier12345 The images show her different appearence in each of the games.

Many sections are horribly incomplete and short, and do not describe Peach at all. It is still scattered with POVs like "of course, Mario had to rescue her" etc. The SPM section lists events in a wrong order, and doesn't describe the beginning of the game at all. The Appearance in Other Media section has a "Movies" header, which is emtpy. Much of her sports information is incomplete (see the Toadstool Tour section as an example), and ultimately, the choice of images could be revised. This is very far from perfect. - 18:45, 28 October 2007 (EDT)

Compare Daisy article, those images have a perfect thumbnail and every game is within a section in general. Bomba&yen; Du&cent;k

User: Elise Then you please revise it, so it can be like Daisy's article. Users always complain about a article, but they rarely correct the mistakes they see. Also Daisy's article is not that perfect, none of the articles are.


 * In the FA process, supporters are supposed to revise the article. Opposers only need to say what needs to be revised.  It takes time to revise an article, and opposers may have other things to work on.  A support vote means you have pledged to work on the article.  If you are not going to try to fix it you should remove your support vote. -- Son of Suns


 * Despite this, which is true, I am already improving the article... - 12:10, 29 October 2007 (EDT)


 * Of course opposers can help, all I was saying is that they don't need to. Thanks for your work Cobold. -- Son of Suns

Thank you so much!--User: Elise
 * The sections concerning Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time and Super Paper Mario still need to be revised, as someone who hasn't played those games I cannot follow the plot. Also, the Appearances in Other Media section is still lacking, it needs to expand on Nintendo Comics System, Cartoons and the Anime. A picture of Peach from the cartoons would also be good. She looks very different in those, she's got red hair! - 10:14, 8 November 2007 (EST)

I see what I can do.--User: Elise

I was looking through past featured articles to get an idea on how this article is suppose to look. I came across Daisy Article and found it used bold language. Terms such as 'skater girl' were used to describe her and it was not considered opinionated. That type of writing made the article more interesting to read but it was also accurate. There was nothing wrong with describing her as 'fun loving' or 'seductive'. So I don't understand why Peach's article is considered to have POVs. Describing her as 'beatiful' or 'graceful' is not an user's opinion, considering she is described as this so many time in the games. Also no more than two pics of Peach can be used in the passages. Daisy's article had two pics of her from Mario Tennis 64. --User: Elise
 * There is no specific rule for featured articles, not even when comparing them amongst each other. In the end, what the users find appropriate becomes featured. So as long as no one opposes because of a problem with the images in the article, we can have as many as we want. - 13:20, 18 December 2007 (EST)

So it is what the users prefer? Ok. I'm kind of confused now.--User: Elise
 * To make the article featured, we need to restart this nomination. Then, you'll see if anyone complains. You just need a reasonable amount of images. Reasonable is for me, the more paragraphs and more text are below a single header, the more images can fit in and may be needed. - 13:36, 18 December 2007 (EST)
 * Ok! I understand now. Thank you.--User: Elise

Does the Miscellaneous Games section needs to be exapanded more? User:Javier12345
 * I cannot say that now, I need to do some research in order to find out what games can still be listed there. Expect me to contribute on the article by next week. As of currently, this nomination has run out and I'll move the talk to the article's talk page. - 13:52, 18 December 2007 (EST)

The Lost Levels?
Considering that its storyline is a 1:1 copy of Super Mario Bros., should we really take note of Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels in the Biography section? I think it's superflous, we don't need it there. - 11:16, 8 January 2008 (EST)
 * If its exactly the same maybe its ok to erase it, but it should said that she appeared in the game. Javier12345 22:22, 8 January 2008 (EST)
 * Hold up, though: you're looking at her biography. It's not for us to say which parts aren't different enough to include, IMO.  See, you're treading on that "canon" thing, because to not mention it in her biography is to say that it didn't happen in the continuity (exceptions of course being the sports titles and all of them, but that's just because of the way we set things up).  I'm very iffy on our "alternate canon" thing with the TV shows and all of that, but the Lost Levels are a video game published by Nintendo, which is, according to Son of Sons on the canonicity page, the "highest" canon.  Here's what I would do: "Blah, blah, blah SMB, rescued from Bowser, blah.  Then, Bowser returned almost immeadiately and recaptured the Princess.  Mario again rescued her." Bingo.  You mention it, but you don't give it much importance.  I would combine them into the same section if they aren't already, y'know?  Oh... and an aside here, if you look at the continuity of the Super Mario Bros. Super Show!, the Lost Levels are necesary: the show never explains how Mario, Luigi, Peach, and Toad save the Mushroom Kingdom after rescuing Peach in Super Mario Bros. 1, so it makes sense that Bowser would kidnap Peach at the end and make tracks through eight worlds.  Sorry to chew your ear off.  23:21, 8 January 2008 (EST)
 * Canon, blahblah, I'm not looking at the canon but at the entirely same storyline. You could even consider it a remake with new goodies for the player. - 12:24, 9 January 2008 (EST)
 * Aw, Cobold mocked my blahing. Blah, blah I don't like your arguement either blah.  Until you get a source from Nintendo saying that the two games were the same, they aren't.  21:08, 13 January 2008 (EST)
 * ^ I hope you know that the first two sentenses there are teasing you, not serious. But you can never tell emotion with el internet.  21:32, 13 January 2008 (EST)

Quotes
Umm no offence but Princess Peach's quote from the Super Mario 64 is more like "Dear Mario, please come to the castle. I've baked a cake for you. Yours truly, Princess Toadstool Peach." because I've been hearing it on youtube. Gissy

That sounds right. Feel free to replace it. 12:52, 20 January 2008 (EST)

SSBM picture
Peach's picture from Super Smash Bros. Melee shouldn't be in the personality section. It should be in the gallery. Unless someone thinks the picture shows her personality, which I don't think it does-- I think that picture makes her look vain. If you want a picture in the personality section, the Mario Party 7 picture looks better. 19:55, 12 February 2008 (EST)
 * Well, regardless of your opinion, that's canon art, but... I have to agree. However, to avoid opinions, you could say that Peach from Melee was technically a trophy of Peach brougt to life, so... I don't know.  Anyway, I would support you in this.  01:24, 13 February 2008 (EST)
 * So it's canonical that Mario and Peach were beating the heck out of each other for no reason? Those games always puzzled me. Anyway, about the picture, Should we switch them?
 * Didn't DP take care of it? I think you're confusing canon with continuity.  In the central continuity, Mario and Peach have never beaten each other up.  In the Smash Bros. continuity, trophy recreations of the two of them have battled it out, but the two of them have not because the two of them do not actually appear.  However, because both Smash Bros. and central Mario are canon, we include information about both real Peach and trophy Peach in the article.  Kind of like how Yoshi from the movie is mentioned in the Yoshi article, even though the two are obviously not part of the same continuity.  22:56, 13 February 2008 (EST)
 * We shouldn't get too philosophical on that issue, either. (Trophies etc.) - 09:38, 14 February 2008 (EST)
 * Okay, but we're getting off topic. I'm talking about whether that picture belongs in that specific section or not. It doesn't. It shows the wrong personality for her. So I think that picture should be put in the gallery. Oh, you're right, someone changed the picture. We don't need to discuss any further whether the Peach in SSBM really fought Mario.
 * Well... you did ask, and Cobold, I was giving a non-opinion based reason. Seriously, though, it's pretty well established with Brawl that Peach did not become a trophy temporarily, fight her friends, and change back, right?  20:44, 14 February 2008 (EST)
 * I didn't understand that. - 08:15, 15 February 2008 (EST)
 * Is it established anywhere that Peach could get kidnapped in Galaxy, turn into a trophy to compete in Brawl, and then turn back into a human for Mario Kart Wii? It just doesn't make sense.  Plus, Sakurai has explicately said that trophies fight in his world, not people.  To say that in any continuity Peach fought Mario doesn't make sense.  A TROPHY of her faught a TROPHY of Mario.  22:01, 15 February 2008 (EST)

Um I think that the nintendo charaters go to a different world to fight and if they lose they turn to a trophy. If they were able to turn to trophies in the Mushroom Kingdom then Bowser would of been a turn to a trophy so many times Princess Grapes Butterfly 20:27, 16 February 2008 (EST)

'''It doesn't matter!!! I was just talking about the picture, and it was moved!!!''' If you want to talk about whether SSB characters are the real characters or just trophies, talk about it somewhere else. The new MP8 picture is much better.

"Peach's debut" picture
How come the picture in the "Peach's debut" section is called Image:PrincessSML.png? Why is there SML, doesn't that mean Super Mario Land? She wasn't in that game, and the game isn't mentioned in that section. What game is it really from? The picture should be moved.


 * I don't know why its called that but leave it like that-it's from Super Mario Bros. There's no problem with it. It just happens to be the nae of the picture-I don't know why it is the name but it is. No need to move or anything. http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/3473/linkswordmi2.gif Paper Jorge ( Talk&middot;Contributions)&middot; http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/3473/linkswordmi2.gif
 * The picture is a good example of how she was portrayed in all of the games in that section - they didn't have notable differences in their official artwork. The exact game doesn't matter. (It's not a "Super Mario Bros." section) - 07:33, 22 February 2008 (EST)


 * It may portray her from all the games, but "SML" is wrong, she wasn't in that game, it should be SMB.
 * To change image names, you'd have to reupload them. That's pretty much unneeded because it is such a minor mistake. We also have images with "lol" in the name. These are officially discouraged, but it's simply too much work saving the image locally, then reuploading it onto a different name and then replacing all instances of them, just to change three letters. You can go ahead and reupload it under the different name if you feel like it. - 18:56, 22 February 2008 (EST)

Oh. I thought you can just move them like articles. If you cant, it's fine, I wasn't saying we should re-upload it.

Sport section images
I think we rather should use the latest pictures for sports games, not those old N64 pictures. I'd rather have DS, Wii and GameCube pictures there. - 07:32, 23 June 2008 (EDT)

What's wrong with the N64 pics?
 * I think we should show the latest images in the main article, and have the older ones in the gallery. - 07:39, 23 June 2008 (EDT)


 * I also agree on that front, because all sports images in regards to Peach still count. --M. C. - &quot;Mario Gals&quot; Enthusiast! 21:12, 25 June 2008 (EDT)

OK. I don't completely understand, so I won't stop you. :P

Main picture
I'm supporting the Mario Party 8 picture, we should have the newer images first. Also, I don't see a reason for the SSBM official art to be in the Smash Bros. section. It's filling too much place. - 13:13, 18 July 2008 (EDT)

Peach's Chronological appearence!
I think that Peach's article needs her information from the first time she actually aided Mario! Chronologically. What I mean is Yoshi's Island DS. The other Mario characters that were star kids like Mario, Wario, Luigi, Donkey Kong, Bowser, and Yoshi have that information.--PeteyPiranhaLover 10:12, 16 August 2008 (EDT)
 * I've already put this concern on the Featured Article page so hopefully someone will do that along with M&L:PiT. 10:24, 16 August 2008 (EDT)

Super Princess Peach
Where are the artworks from Super Princess Peach?
 * Super Princess Peach. We're still looking for a solution to the gallery problems... Long story, but it was a sacrifice made so that the article could be featured. (someone opposed it for the artwork)  01:44, 18 August 2008 (EDT)
 * It was me (amongst others), but I opposed it for having too much artwork. No artwork at all is even worse. 06:25, 18 August 2008 (EDT)
 * As Stumpers said, it was best for the Super Princess Peach artworks to be kept in it's own article. Makes more sense to me on that front. --M. C. - "Mario Gals" Fan! 11:17, 18 August 2008 (EDT) User Page | Talk Page
 * But removing all pics from this article is no solution. The point of the gallery here is to show Peach's development in the games, and now it's lacking one game. We need at least one image from SPP. 11:40, 18 August 2008 (EDT)
 * I hadn't noticed that someone took down the few that were left. >:( Oh well. 11:50, 18 August 2008 (EDT)

NOA's Policy: here it is
http://www.filibustercartoons.com/Nintendo.php,


 * Wait wat?

Perhaps this information could better fit on the Nintendo page, but I don't see what it has to do with Peach. 23:21, 20 October 2008 (EDT)


 * I'm still thinking this is more suitable for the forums area, not here. Really. --M. C. - "Mario Gals" Fan! User Page | Talk Page 10:07, 21 October 2008 (EDT)

Peach doesnt make sense in the Marioverse (Mickeyverse)
who was da dude who created Peach? she is nonsense and a VERY MINOR character. Rosalina should be in her place or maybe another princess... Sonic Rocks 19:16, 25 October 2008 (EDT)
 * In the Mickeyverse, Peach is almost unknown, what makes her useless in this wiki. I would rather delete her article but i'm not a SySop.Sonic Rocks 19:16, 25 October 2008 (EDT)
 * ...This is MarioWiki. If you wanna go to a Mickey Wiki, then nobody's stopping you, however you made some good edits here too. Peach is one of the big eight, too.


 * What exactly is the Mickeyverse? The Mickey Mouse equivalent of the Marioverse? 20:28, 25 October 2008 (EDT)