MarioWiki:Proposals

A proposal section works like a discussion page: comments are brought up and replied to using indents (colons, such as : or ::::) and all edits are signed using the code.

This page observes the No-Signature Policy.

How To
 * 1) If users have an idea about improving the wiki or managing its community, but feel that they need community approval before acting upon that idea, they may make a proposal about it. They must have a strong argument supporting their idea and be willing to discuss it in detail with the other users, who will then vote about whether or not they think the idea should be used. Proposals should include links to all relevant pages and Writing Guideline proposals must include a link to the draft page.
 * 2) Proposals end at the end of the day (23:59) one week after voting starts, except for Writing Guidelines and Talk Page Proposals, which run for two weeks. (All times GMT.)
 * 3) *For example, if a proposal is added at any time on Monday, August 1, 2011, the voting starts immediately and the deadline is one week later on Monday, August 8, at 23:59 GMT.
 * 4) Every vote should have a reason accompanying it. Agreeing with or seconding a previously mentioned reason given by another user is accepted.
 * 5) Users who feel that certain votes were cast in bad faith or which truly have no merit can address the votes in the Comments section. Users can ask a voter to clarify their position, point out mistakes or flaws in their arguments, or call for the outright removal of the vote if it lacks sufficient reasoning. Users may not remove or alter the content of anyone else's votes. Voters can remove or rewrite their own vote at any time, but the final decision to remove another user's vote lies solely with the administrators.
 * 6) If a user makes a vote and is subsequently blocked for any amount of time, their vote is removed. However, if the block ends before the proposal ends, then the user in question holds the right to re-cast their vote.
 * 7) No proposal can overturn the decision of a previous proposal that is less than 4 weeks (28 days) old.
 * 8) Any proposal that has three votes or less at deadline will automatically be listed as "NO QUORUM." The original proposer then has the option to relist said proposal to generate more discussion.
 * 9) All proposals that end up in a tie will be extended for another week.
 * 10) If a proposal has more than ten votes, it can only pass or fail by a margin of three votes. If a proposal reaches the deadline and the total number of votes for each option differ by two or less votes, the deadline will be extended for another week.
 * 11) Proposals can only be extended up to three times. If a consensus has not been reached by the fourth deadline, the proposal fails and can only be re-proposed after four weeks, at the earliest.
 * 12) All proposals are archived. The original proposer must take action accordingly if the outcome of the proposal dictates it. If it requires the help of an administrator, the proposer can ask for that help.
 * 13) Proposals can only be rewritten or deleted by their proposer within the first three days of their creation. However, proposers can request that their proposal be deleted by an administrator at any time, provided they have a valid reason for it. Please note that cancelled proposals must also be archived.
 * 14) If the administrators deem a proposal unnecessary or potentially detrimental to the upkeep of the Super Mario Wiki, they have the right to remove it at any time.
 * 15) There should not be proposals about creating articles on an underrepresented or completely absent subject, unless there is major disagreement about whether the content should be included. To organize efforts about completing articles on missing subjects, try creating a PipeProject.
 * 16) Proposals cannot be made about promotions and demotions. Users can only be promoted and demoted by the will of the administration.
 * 17) No joke proposals. Proposals are serious wiki matters and should be handled professionally. Joke proposals will be deleted on sight.

Basic Proposal and Support/Oppose Format This is an example of what your proposal should look like, if you want it to be acknowledged. If you are inexperienced or unsure how to set up this format, simply copy the following and paste it into the fitting section. Then replace the [subject] - variables with information to customize your proposal, so it says what you wish. If you insert the information, be sure to replace the whole variable including the squared brackets, so "[insert info here]" becomes "This is the inserted information", not "[This is the inserted information]". - ===[insert a title for your Proposal here]=== [describe what issue this Proposal is about and what changes you think should be made to improve how the Wiki handles that issue]

Proposer: Deadline: [insert a deadline here, 7 days after the proposal was created, at 23:59 GMT.]

====Support====
 * 1) [make a statement indicating that you support your proposal]

====Oppose====

====Comments==== - Users will now be able to vote on your Proposal, until the set deadline is reached. Remember, you are a user as well, so you can vote on your own Proposal just like the others.

To support, or oppose, just insert " # at the bottom of the section of your choice. Just don't forget to add a valid reason for your vote behind that tag if you are voting on another user's Proposal. If you are voting on your own Proposal, you can just say "Per my Proposal".

Talk Page Proposals All proposals dealing with a single article or a specific group of articles are held on the talk page of one of the articles in question. Proposals dealing with massive amounts of splits, merges or deletions across the Wiki should still be held on this page.


 * For a list of all settled Talk Page Proposals, see here.

How To
 * 1) All active talk page proposals must be listed below in chronological order (new proposals go at the bottom). All pages affected must be mentioned in the brief description, with the talk page housing the discussion linked to directly via "". If the proposal involved a page that is not yet made, use to communicate its title. The Deadline must also be included in the entry. Linking to pages not directly involved in the talk page proposal is not recommended, as it clutters the list with unnecessary links. Place  under the heading.
 * 2) All rules for talk page proposals are the same as mainspace proposals (see the "How To" section above), with the exceptions made by Rules 3 and 4 as follows:
 * 3) Voting in talk page proposals will be open for two weeks, not one. (All times GMT.)
 * 4) *For example, if a proposal is added at any time on Monday, August 1, 2011, it ends two weeks later on Monday, August 15, 2011, at 23:59 GMT.
 * 5) Talk page proposals may be closed by the proposer at any time if both the support and the oppose sides each have fewer than five votes.
 * 6) The talk page proposal must pertain to the article it is posted on.

List of Talk Page Proposals

 * Split Ashley's song from Ashley and Red (Discuss) Passed
 * Move Cyclops to Kazoomba (Discuss) Deadline: July 1, 2011, 23:59 GMT
 * Split Giant Banana from Banana (Discuss) Deadline: July 3, 2011 23:59 GMT
 * Merge Koopa Bun with Koopa Dumpling (Discuss) Deadline: July 4, 2011, 23:59 GMT
 * Move Grey Brick Block to Concrete Brick Block or Concrete Block (Discuss) Deadline: July 6, 2011, 23:59 GMT
 * Merge Turtley Leaf with Koopa Leaf (Discuss) Deadline: July 6, 2011, 23:59 GMT
 * Split Yoshi's Super Star from Mario Party's Super Star (Discuss) Deadline: July 7, 2011, 23:59 GMT
 * Split Young Elvin Gadd from Professor Elvin Gadd (Discuss) Deadline: July 7, 2011, 23:59 GMT
 * Split Mega Goomba (Species) from Mega Goomba (Discuss) Deadline: July 7, 2011, 23:59 GMT
 * Move List of Mario bosses to (Discuss) Deadline: July 9, 2011, 23:59 GMT
 * Split Mole Train from Mole Miner Max (Discuss) Deadline: July 9, 2011, 23:59 GMT
 * Merge Expresso II with Expresso (Discuss) Deadline: July 9, 2011, 23:59 GMT
 * Split Flying Question Block from Question Block (Discuss) Deadline: July 15, 2011, 23:59 GMT

Writing Guidelines
None at the moment.

New Features
None at the moment.

Remove Staff Pages
The title explains it all. I feel that the staff pages for the games are not needed in the fact that they are not really about "Mario" himself. We talk about Mario here, not about the people who made the games. People who play the games can know who made the game and all of that kind of stuff. But when we're talking about Mario on the Super Mario Wiki, these staff pages have no business being created.

Proposer: Deadline: July 7, 2011, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) As the proposer, I support my proposal.

Oppose

 * 1) they should stay give credit is due they made the games so they should be recognized for that. Also per the original proposal that created them here
 * 2) Per GS15! I like it stood here where it belongs! We need the staff for various games like Mario Kart Wii, Super Mario Galaxy 2 and more!
 * 3) Per Goomba's Shoe15 and my comments below.
 * 4) Per Xzelion. The people who make the games are just as important as the games themselves.
 * 5) Per All!
 * 6) The people who made the games are Mario-related. Technically.
 * 7) - Per Xzelion. Besides, the wiki isn't actually about Mario, it's about the Mario series, both the in-universe and real life aspects of it, and that certainly includes the people who made the games/shows/comics/etc.
 * 8) Per all
 * 9) Per all.
 * 10) Per all.
 * 11) "We talk about Mario here, not about the people who made the games." Sure, what about this guy? He created Mario, how about this one? Even if the staff list may have minor people, they deserve a place here. If you were a person in that list and they just ignored you, wouldn't that make you angry? Per all...

Comments
@GS15 We still talk about Mario here though. If people want to know what the credits are, they can just simply look it up. People are still getting recognized by people playing their games. But like said in the proposal, we talk about Mario here.
 * A lot of the times the credits appear in the games themselves in fact NSMB Wii allows the credits to be played as a level also we have articles on voice actors and other people who never appear in the mario series but played a part in it so why not keep the credits
 * By credit pages, do you mean the staff pages?
 * Yes.

@GS15 I still think we should rethink the idea that we cover Mario here.
 * Oh and also, that's just making them subpages into the game articles, which the proposal is not really about here.
 * Ok but we also cover the people that made mario and with out these people the mario series would not exist those people deserve to be mentioned for all the work they put in the games

@GS15 You are making me real frustrated. This is the Super Mario Wiki. We cover stuff about Mario. They do get the respect they deserve when the millions of people who buy the Mario games go through the credits, and if people want that very specific info, like stated in the proposal, if people want to find out, they can simply look it up on Google and go to another website.
 * I don't see the problem with them. The staff played an important role and helped bring us the game we all enjoyed (hypothetically). At the "they can just look it up" comment, you mean go to another site, right? Do we really want to be less detailed about Mario-information then other sites? Because while you don't see it as Mario related, not everyone is going to see it that way, we should never encourage people to go to another website to find this kind of information. As Goomba's Shoe15 pointed out, we have articles for voice actors, do they get deleted? I'd go as far as to say that the staff is just as important as console articles. And yes, we cover Mario articles here, but we also cover the Wario, Yoshi, and Donkey series information here, and some of them aren't about "Mario" himself. At your "people who played the game"...comment, how exactly should they know? I mean I don't memorize the credits as roll down the screen...


 * people should be able to find all mario related info on this site that includes the people who made the game especially since those credits are part of the game itself

@Xzelion, that's a Good point. About your Mario article section of your comment, that's because they're spin-offs of the Mario series that need to be included. I think your comment is correct, but let's see how the proposal goes and see if I'm wrong or not.
 * That's true, but in your comments about why it should be removed, you point out that the staff pages aren't really "about "Mario" himself", well nether are these spin-offs? And your comment about how my comment is correct, confuses me...


 * Yeah I'm weird like that :) Anyway the reason why we talk about Donkey Kong, Wario, and Yoshi series is because their based off of Mario. Also, because all three of those characters appear in Mario series games. Yes, these credits are based off of the Mario series considering they were made by those people, but are not a main part. Donkey Kong, Wario, and Yoshi as the characters and their own series are.
 * I disagree without them, we wouldn't even have these games to play. That's major enough for me.

Oh, and if you say They aren't about Mario himself, than we'll have to delete most of the pages.

Artwork Transparency Issues
During the past set of months, I've been noticing that a good number of JPEG artworks were being replaced by PNG artworks with transparent backgrounds. However, a lot of those images look quite ugly when they're viewed in backgrounds that aren't colored white. I've mentioned this dilemma at the admins boards, and some of the Sysops there do agree with my statement. I propose that any artworks with ugly-looking transparency has to lose the transparency. After all, we shouldn't be modifying the artworks by any means; if the artworks are JPEGs, upload them as JPEGs; if the PNG artworks don't have anything transparent, upload them that way.

Update: To understand what's going on, please look here for examples of good transparency and bad transparency.

Proposer: Deadline: June 30, 2011 23:59 GMT July 7, 2011, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) - Per my proposal.
 * 2) - As I hear a lot, we strive to make this wiki better and better, and if images that don't make the wiki look well, it brings down the wiki's quality. Sometimes it's just better to leave small things alone to make bigger things better.
 * 3) Per proposal.
 * 4) Per all!
 * 5) - I recall some images, such as the Black Mage artwork, looking better without transparency. Per all.
 * 6) Adding transparency ruins the image. Per proposal.
 * 7) "If the artworks are JPEGs, upload them as JPEGs." PNG. Even if not transparent, always upload PNG.
 * 8) - Per proposer. Actually I don't see the necessity to converse JPEG files into PNG: there is no real difference in a picture when converting a JPEG into PNG, and the transparency thing is more of an excuse to say that the PNG is better than JPEG, never noticing the size of the picture wich is a lot heavier in PNG files. This is one of the various causes that retouching official artworks really bothers me. That and the user's less knowledge about a in-game model and a (very bad) cropped screenshot.
 * 9) Per all.
 * 10) Per all i don't like the way transparent images look anyways
 * 11) As far as I can tell, transparency doesn't need to be added and makes many images look terrible. Per all.

Oppose

 * 1) I disagree with this proposal as PNGs are usually better then JPGs and the conversion from JPG to PNG is rather good because the images that I did in that way always looked more clear quality-wise.
 * 2) Per UM3000 and comment below. Just let users have the freedom to do whatever they want with the image as long it will look good on and make the article better in quality.
 * 3) Per UltraMario3000.
 * 4) Per all.
 * 5) Isn't Transpaprancy good?
 * 6) Per all. JPGs (JPEGs) are a little crappy compared to PNGs.
 * 7) Per UltrMario3000, BoygeyDude, and Superfiremario
 * 8) Per UM3000.
 * 9) – Per all.
 * 10) Per UltraMario
 * 11) Per UM
 * 12) Per all, and as someone who works with these images, I find PNG images easier to use, and maintain a better quality post-process.
 * 13) Per all.
 * 14) What the heck, you want to get rid of all the transparent PNGs because they get a checkered background when you're viewing them in their file page? That's ridiculous. Per all.
 * 15) Per all and Arend. This community is sort of annoying sometimes, when they make dumb proposals 'because transparent images look ugly'. Come on, transparent PNGs are way better than plain white background JPGs! And some of the JPG images come with a background, so that's annoying too.
 * 16) - Per all, especially Arend.

Comments
Recently I've been working with PNG sprite images with white backgrounds that are unnecessary and removing them and reuploading it. I haven't done anything with JPEGs. That's ok, right?
 * I think the proposal is saying that we should stop making non-transparent images transparent because if you put them behind a background that is a color other than white, you can still see some of the white around the picture.
 * I don't understand the difference between a JPEG a PNG or transparency all i ever see are pictures
 * JPEG and PNG are popular image file formats. PNGs are more easily modifiable than JPEGs in a software such as Fireworks or Photoshop. Most images have backgrounds (generally white), and people can use software to remove them (an image without a background is considered transparent). It can be useful at times, but it is not always done perfectly. Usually, the software will remove most of a background using a tool, leaving the user to remove the rest manually, sometimes pixel-by-pixel depending on the quality wanted. The problem is that it can be a tedious process depending on the size of the image and the quantity of background to be removed, so some of it is likely to remain either unnoticed or unattended. On a white background (or one colored identically to the image background), there's no problem, but other backgrounds reveal these unnoticed or unattended portions and make the image, and by extension, the wiki, look unprofessional.
 * I'm really confused on this still. Can you give a few examples to really clear this up?
 * This image TrSuper mushroom.jpg has a background (all of the space surrounding the trophy), while this image MarioNSMBWii.PNG is transparent (all transparent images have that checkered "background" you see when clicking on it).

UM: No, the proposer is talking about the bad quality transparent images, not all of the transparent images.

I can see where some people are going by replacing JPEG artworks with PNG artworks. However, if the PNG artworks do not have a transparent background, you should upload them just like that. If a PNG artwork has transparency already when you download it, odds are, it'll probably look good on any kind of background. If that truly is the case, that kind of artwork image can be uploaded; Ex.: ; when I found that image, it already had an Alpha Layer, and it looked good on a black background. Basically, by normal standards, quality > transparency, and transparency should only be implemented if it looks good. -
 * I have noticed that some users don't know how to keep the quality when changing it to a transparent image. When they upload the image it is smaller than the JPEG file was and so some users who know how to keep the quality and have it transparent have to fix the image. Also JPEG files has little dots that are hard to see that surround the image and they blend in with the white. We don't want to see that because it makes the image look like it has bad quality and that is probably why we make images transparent. -
 * Regardless, if the original artwork doesn't have transparency, do not alter it. At times, adding transparency to artwork will make it look much worse, due to the pixelated edges that can be seen.  I learned that the hard way when I modified some Mario Super Sluggers artworks. -

@UltraMario3000: He's not saying that we shouldn't convert from JPG to PNG, but that if someone does that, they shouldn't make it transparent.

@Yoshiwaker: I don't see what's wrong with making it transparent though.:/--
 * Take an image and put it behind a black background. You'll see.
 * I don't get what you're trying to say Xze.--
 * Look here.

We should upload all artworks as PNG, because when JPG pictures are rescaled (&#91;]), the they become very artifacted.
 * Most artworks that can be found on gaming websites are JPEGs however. Besides, you shouldn't replace an HQ JPEG image with a low quality PNG image.

@Goomba's Shoe15: This proposal only applies to bad quality transparency artworks. Artworks such as the one that Xzelion showed would not be affected, since those artworks already had transparency implemented before being uploaded; artworks that already have transparency usually tend to look good on any background color.
 * I know that

@M&SG Did I say anything about quantity? Also, PNG is lossless, if you didn't notice it.
 * I didn't say quantity. Also, I didn't say that you shouldn't replace JPEG artworks with PNG artworks.  You can still do that, but if the PNG artworks have no transparency, don't make them transparent.

Just in case the proposal deadline has to be extended, please refer to here for some examples of acceptable transparency and unacceptable transparency.

@Arend: You're missing the point. This proposal only applies to artworks that have bad transparency. Please look at my examples, and you'll clearly get the picture.

Recipe Images
I've noticed an inconcistency with the images for the recipes. You can even look now at many of them. Many of them are quite alike, but they are different to the others alike. This has caused not only constant headaches with users like myself, but also more work for every user to do.

Just go to here and notice how each image is for the most part (as some are like .gif and .jpg). This is a great example - for the most part - of what I am talking about. Now go to here or here, and notice how many images are like, , , , , and then even images for items that are used for more than one game because there isn't a image  found!

My point I'm trying to come across is that many of our pages have had major work done on them because of this inconsistency, as well as editing them now being a major pain-in-the-neck. Changing them to something that will work out for all of them (, , and are what the ideal file names would be), we'll be able to create these pages more efficently, as well as editing further pages be a lot more smoother and less time-consuming.

As an example, this is more efficent way of making images easier, as the template already holds the key factors in it, which would allow the editor just to simply put in the item name. And for the pages that don't use that template, it will still allow easier editing since they would have to only put the key factors and the item name instead of looking up the image and copying it into a page.

The downside to all of this is that many of the pages already having these mix-matched file names would need to be fixed and updated to the latest things. Hopefully it won't take much time, and I already have it planned to quickly update each page before it ends up as a project that will take more than a few days. If the proposal pass, I'll start immediately on working, and hopefully have some help to get it down. That is the only downside I can see to this passing afaik. Even if it takes some work, it is better to have consistency then have all this annoying work done if it could be much simplier.

Proposer: Deadline: July 4, 2011, 23:59 GMT

Have them match

 * 1) - I have done many of the pages that hold a lot of these images, and this the best option that I wish I thought of long ago. Per my proposal.
 * 2) This makes sense to me. It'll be more consistent. Consistency is good. Per BMB.
 * 3) - I'm Reddragon and I approve this proposal! Per all!

Leave as it is

 * 1) - I think I understand this one. My point is that this is rather pointless. Nobody is going to see the filenames if they don't want to, and, even so, they're there to see the recipes, not the filenames or the pictures. The names wouldn't bother someone who went to the page for its purpose. And if that's completely irrelevant, then, again, I don't understand what you're proposing.
 * 2) Per MCD.
 * 3) Per both.
 * 4) - Per this dashing mystery fellow with the top-hat.
 * 5) Per MrConcreteDonkey.
 * 6) – Per MrConcreteDonkey.

Comments
@MCD: For the viewer, it is pretty much pointless to them. But I'm viewing this to the people that have constantly had to edit the pages full of images. I was editing many yesterday, and I was completely annoyed with all the extra work I had to do. It may not seem like a lot to a viewer, but it's a big difference to thoses that have edited the pages like myself. I for a fact that this isn't the first proposal to deal with editing and consistency.
 * What about the extra work this will bring across for the Sysops? That will be much more tedious.
 * I never said anything about sysops. Yes, images would have to be deleted, but its no different from any other image deletions. It's not like there are over 100 (maybe even less than 50) that don't follow this rule. Likewise, 1/3 of them are already completed, and another 1/4 of the remainder are already in the correct category. That leaves about less than half that are already done. I do feel bad that some would do that, but I'm looking at the long run, and I see this as something that will help us with less work than extra work.
 * Well, then why is it a huge problem? Any amount of deleting takes time away from the sysops. And all of the image adding for those three pages is already done. "Constantly had", not "constantly do".
 * Forgive me for saying this, but you're annoyed by all the extra work you had to do...so you wanna make the Sysops do the work instead? o_0
 * I don't think he meant it that way, Xze. But the idea makes sense if it was properly implemented, as the filenames would be more consistent which would be easier for when other users link one or more of those files to another page. It could apply to all images/sprites of recurring objects/enemies/items etc in a series, not just the Paper Mario series. I think that that's what BMB is trying to get at. Although I do see the point made by MCD, that the viewer won't really be bothered by erroneous naming of files.
 * Yeah, sometimes I have trouble really saying what I mean. Thanks RUAI. I hate having that main problem with the extra work having to be done for this, and I hate that I can't do all of it myself, and that is why this proposal is very well-sided. Xzelion, I don't want to make you or another sysop do the work, but I also want some consistency on editing things. MCD makes a great point with the fact that this is not that important, but I would rather try for some consistency instead of just doing nothing and leave it for it to just get worst. I wish that this could have happened while the file were beginning to form, but that was my ignorance about the topic. Rise Up Above It: That would be really good to do it with more than just recipe images, but I'm just doing this since this is a real dead-give-a-way to the inconsistency to the images.
 * To clarify, I have no problem doing more work, should this proposal come to pass. I'd be more than happy to help. But I have to agree with MCD here. I'd like to add that I feel it;d be too much work and in the end the Wiki hasn't entirely benefited from. The work outweighs the worth. Although, I do think we'd be better off enforcing this rule for new game images, but that just may be me.

Miscellaneous
None at the moment.