Talk:Ashley and Red

"Demons" in the Mario verse.
Recently, a link to a potential article about Mario demons was deleted. I totally see why. A broken link doesn't look good ;). Anyway, considering the Shadow Queen, Red, and perhaps the Shadow Sirens were all demons, should we make an article about them?  Sorry this doesn't really relate but I didn't want to get ahead of myself.  -Stumpers

-I thought of the Shadow Sirens as ghosts rather than demons. - Lord Kenny

They are ghosts. However, it says in-game that the Shadow Queen, "She was Queen of all demons" or something like that, so we can only infer that she is a demon. Maxlover2
 * Technically, there's no confirmation of that. I'm only going off of the visual similarities between the Sirens and the Queen.  No ghosts, Boo or otherwise, have ever looked like the Sirens.  19:37, 20 December 2007 (EST)

Ashley's Age
In the Wikipedia article for Ashley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Wario_characters#Ashley) it says she is around 16 years old. Can anyone comfirm this? It says nothing that would hint at her age in the WarioWare Touched booklet. What about the Twisted booklet? - Lord Kenny

She wasn't in Twisted, I think. User: Maxlover2 Shes 15, though in the Japanese version I've heard shes 8.

Sung by Ashley?
In my opinion "You'd better watch your step, or she'll cast a spell on you" and "Just remember this when you see her on the street" aren't sung by Ashley, or are there differences between the American and the European version (I have the last one) ? --Grandy02 13:58, 25 April 2007 (EDT)
 * Also, in the character credits of WarioWare: Touched, "Ashley's Creepy Crew" is mentioned - maybe these are the ones (and not Red) who sing together with Ashley? --Grandy02 13:34, 20 May 2007 (EDT)

Controversity section
Is it confirmed what is said there? - 08:28, 9 October 2007 (EDT)

Yes, I read it in NP's pulse last night --HyperToad 10:44, 20 December 2007 (EST)

Split
A recently accepted proposal requires that this article be split into two separate articles. Any persons involved in this article or the voting, please prepare and conduct the split. Thank you. -- Chris 23:15, 19 October 2007 (EDT) Cancel that, previous proposal has been overturned. -- Chris 02:28, 3 December 2007 (EST)
 * Well, if I have time this week, I'll try, but you know how things go. :( Life is being stuuuupid. 21:27, 21 October 2007 (EDT)
 * Should I just go ahead, split the page and let you lot sort it out? -- [[Image:Shyghost.PNG]]Chris[[Image:Shyghost.PNG]] 04:57, 11 November 2007 (EST)
 * Sounds good! :P

Ya know what? No, I'm not doing this. There just isn't enough information on Red for there to be two articles. -- Chris 23:44, 13 November 2007 (EST)
 * Here you go. My edit to the would-be split Red article, which wasn't complete.  I don't want to post it just to be yelled at for causing extra work, so here you go:

Red is small demon who lives with Ashley in the haunted mansion ofDiamond City. The history of their friendship is unknown, as they only came to prominence after Wario hired them to create a set of microgames for WarioWare: Touched! Red is always supportive of his slightly incompitent friend and always has a cheerful outlook on life.

Early Life
Red's past is largely unknown. However, he ended up living among humans with no connection to other demons. After meeting Ashley, he lived alone with her in the haunted mansion, where the two worked to improve her magical skills, particularly in regards to potion making. Their existence continued as such until Wario contacted them.

Wario's Offer
Looking for new employees for WarioWare, Inc., Wario hired Ashley and Red to create a set of microgames for WarioWare: Touched! Ashley and Red created a series called Total Drag. Around this period, Red was once again helping his friend create a potion. After failing again, Red took his dejected friend outside for a refreshing walk, where Orbulon ran into them, knocking them over. On instructions from Ashely, Red set off to kidnap him to be used in the next potion. No, it's not done, but I'm through with this politics stuff. I think I'll work on non-disputed articles from now on. :( 16:01, 25 November 2007 (EST)

You could has just made a test page...... -- Chris 16:05, 25 November 2007 (EST)
 * Not really. I just want to put this here so that if you DO decide to split the articles at some point in time the person doing it doesn't have to do what I did in the little time I had for the Wiki this last week.  Now it's somewhere where everyone will be able to see it. :)  19:51, 25 November 2007 (EST)

Cruelest Girl Around
Hey, I'm a big fan of this song and listen to it a lot on Brawl. I was looking at this page at the lyrics and noticed that the lyrics go "I'm the cruelest girl around". I always thought that she was saying "coolest", which would also make sense since it is pointed out in the theme song that she seems to have a large ego. After that, I listened to the song a few more times, very closely at that part, and I'm sure that I didn't hear any r in the word. Does anyone know for sure what she's saying in that part?--Shroopliss 19:58, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
 * In the original version, it's "cruelest". However, in the Brawl version, it's "coolest" instead. That,s noted in the article. --Blitzwing 21:04, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
 * But how can we tell? --Trogga 22:18, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
 * There's a slight "r" sound and then, as you know "ue" in "cruelest" sounds different from "oo" in "coolest". 00:04, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

ARE YOU PEOPLE SURE SHE SAID "COOLEST" IN BRAWL?
I saw the page was recently edited as such. But is this confirmed?!!!
 * If you listen to the song, it's quite obvious she do say coolest. [Listen to it.] --Blitzwing 11:39, 26 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Is it confirmed that the Mario/Wario bros. are italian? Is it confirmed that Wario is obsessed with...? Is it confirmed that Mario & Wario are racist?
 * I don't think we should be listing the lyrics anyway. --Trogga 15:28, 26 March 2008 (EDT)

Bunny Doll
Um, I think she has the doll because I read somewhere that she is 9 in the JPN version.
 * Good to know, but this is the kind of thing we're going to need a source for. Do you have one?  23:03, 6 April 2008 (EDT)
 * The Official Japanese site of Smooth Moves could probably answer that, but the Translation made by Google/Babelfish is just too screwed up to be understandable. Anyones here speak Japanese? --Blitzwing 07:59, 7 April 2008 (EDT)
 * As far as I know, Garlic Man is a fluent Japanese speaker. By the way, here is the correct link to the complete site. --Grandy02 08:18, 7 April 2008 (EDT)
 * I can translate, if needed. Uh, so, what exactly is the bunny doll? What am I supposed to figure out?
 * Garlic Man checked the website, but Ashley's age doesn't seem to be mentioned. However, the automatic translator offers some interesting facts from Ashley's blog entry, she tells something about her mom and dad (?) according to the translator, but the text is still screwed up, as Blitzwing told. Could you say what that text is about, Garlic Man? --Grandy02 15:30, 7 April 2008 (EDT)


 * Actually, most of the talking is done by Red. This is my translation of the entry:


 * Ashley: I'm... not interested in blogs... Red, you write...
 * Red: What, me? Why! Whatever.
 * Red: I'm Ashley's close friend, Red. I haven't told this to anyone, but Ashley is actually pretty lonely.
 * While we were experimenting with magic by the riverbed, we saw a freindly family of apes. Then, Ashley seemed to be looking far away.
 * I acted as though I hadn't noticed, but I know very well. She was probably thinking about her parents from her hometown. Ashley has more cuter characteristics than you may think!


 * Yeah, so, that's the translation. I hope that cleared up some confusion, Grandy02 and Blitz.
 * Ehehe, thanks! That's definitely some interesting infos we have there. --Blitzwing 15:54, 7 April 2008 (EDT)
 * I've got a feeling in my gut that her age may be mentioned in the Japanese Wario Ware Touched site.(Her voice also sounds like a little kid's in her Japanese theme song) *I forgot were I read she was 9 in Japan*
 * Hmm, I tried checking the Touched! site as well, but nothing about her age there, either.

I know this doesn't deal with what we're discussing but I found the MP3s for both the English and Japanese versions of Ashley's Theme.

Quote
when is Ashley's quote on the main page ever used in game? - Lu-igi board.
 * After the epilogue of her story. Every character makes a short comment when the Hawt House dancing scene ended, and this is Ashley's one. --Grandy02 07:35, 11 August 2008 (EDT)

Spoons in the themesong
I have listened several times to the passage that says:" You'd better watch your step or she'll cast a spell on you." "I turned my teacher into a spoon" but everytime I just hear "I turned my teacher into a poo". You may call this nonsense but looking at certain other elements in the series it's not that unlikely. Is it confirmed that she says "Spoon"? Edofenrir 07:55, 28 August 2009 (EDT)

Ok, forget it. She clearly says "spoon" in the Brawl-Version of the song Edofenrir 07:58, 28 August 2009 (EDT)

Where?
Can you tell me where is the warioware touched version of the song is found?
 * Huh...never mind.

Split Ashley and Red
Ok, since articles like Blizzard Midbus, Kreepy Krow, and Dark Fawful are split up despite they being the same person, I would like to split Red and Ashley up as they aren't even the same person. And Red can have enough information to make up his own article anyways.

Proposer: Deadline: August 26, 2010 24:00 GMT

Support

 * 1) Per me.
 * 2) Per Booderdash.
 * 3) They are two different characters and both significant in their own rights. Neither would be stubs if split.
 * 4) Per all
 * 5) Per all.
 * 6) Um... Are they different characters? (Yes.) If they are, they should have different articles. Per MrConcreteDonkey.
 * 7) Ashley is that girl who can rule the world and finish all her homework. Red is that devil-thingy that accompanies Ashley. They are different characters. Why are they merged?
 * 8) Two differnt character in one article. It puzzles me.
 * 9) I am Zero! True, per all. Zero signing out.

Oppose

 * 1) The proposal's reason for separation is not compelling enough for me to support it. According to the proposal, these two are going to be separated because they are separate characters. What about Dribble and Spitz and Kat and Ana? They are obviously separate characters, but they are not in separate articles. What makes Ashley and Red so special?

Comments
Can someone clarify this for me? If split, what information could be put into either article that would prevent one from being a rehash of the other? Is this really necessary? Should the same be done to Dribble and Spitz? They're different characters, so why isn't there a proposal to separate them?


 * You can make a talk page proposal about Dribble and Spitz if you really think so. And the reasons of the proposal sounds...reasonable.

Dribble may have enough infos, but what about Spitz? However, Ashley has enough infos and so has red. The same goes with Kat and Ana. I mean, why aren't 9 volt and 18 volt merged? They're always seen toghether in games. The reason is that both have enough informations to have its own article.
 * Um, the reason is actually that 18-Volt first appeared a couple of games after 9-Volt.

Mario4ever, it practically already won anyways, but let me put you in on the details, Red is a little devil that is mischeivous though probably not very evil. Hes much more excited than Ashley, and hes not as moody and quiet as her. He even smiles in his artwork frequently while Ashley only smiles a little when she wins a stage. Red is also rather cowardly as seen when Reds even FRIGHTED of Ashley as seen in D.I.Y when he hides behind trees when Ashley scares him. ALso in smooth moves Red hides behind ashley when they make the giant plant.
 * No offense, but this does not really help. I know who Red is. If what you're telling me here is all that's going into the article (provided there is a Red article by the end of this), wouldn't that just create an unnecessary stub? I'm sure someone would complain that it does not have enough detail and do nothing about it, as that is usually what happens when people assert that stubs can be expanded. I just don't find an article on Red necessary, but my opinion most likely will not do anything at the moment.

Dark Fawful Core and Ice Blizzard is going to have less info than Red has. For one, we'll write what he does in each game. Its going to be too long to write here. We'll write what he does like in Smooth Moves, D.I.Y, Touched etc. Oh, and another thing, Red can transform himself.
 * I see. Not sure yet if I'm going to change my vote yet, though.

If we split Ashley and Red, should we split Dribble and Spitz and Kat and Ana too?
 * I asked the same question when I first saw this. I honestly don't think that they should be, as there is not enough information on the characters as individuals that would constitute the creation of separate articles that are not unnecessary stubs.

Kat and Ana are twins! And they have almost the same personality and if split, they'll become stub. Spitz doesn't have enough infos since he almost doesn't talk. However, Ashley and Red have enough infos to be split and they do have different personality Ashley's very evil and red is a little coward! Also, in Dribble and Spitz article, all the paragraphes says They are, They do, They...However, in Ashley's article, we talk about ashley and jump to talk about red.
 * It seems I will be this proposal's only opposition. After reading the article, I did not find enough information to justify creating a separate article, but that's just me.

What are we waiting for? The proposal passed! Mileycyrussoulja 23:57, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

Split
I am Zero! Guys, what happen with splitting the characters? Zero signing out.
 * Laziness, no motivation, forgetfulness... --Reversinator 19:35, 25 March 2011 (EDT)
 * Regular things for us Americans, I guess.

For a second thought, I think they should stay merged. ;D We might prevent another proposal that suggests merging them together because they will have redundant articles. 02:13, 2 April 2011 (EDT)
 * Per, also the proposal said that Ashley and Red both have enough information of each other to have their own articles but I just read the article and barely mentions Red at all.
 * I agree. A lot of proposals have been swept under the rug over the years; this one isn't buried in an archive which is why it's come back to haunt us, but another TPP can easily fix that. If splitting pages like these wasn't a recurring issue for the wiki, I'd suggest we kill it without a TPP, but an official repeal will stand up better if/when someone comes along and challenges the merge in the future. - 23:25, 4 April 2011 (EDT)
 * Didn't do anything because I seriously had better things to do than Mario, sorry :/
 * Rule 10 clearly states: "The original proposer must take action accordingly if the outcome of the proposal dictates it." If you can't follow through with your proposal, don't bother making one. Sorry, but it's as simple as that. - 10:38, 21 April 2011 (EDT)

Leave Merged
As we were discussing in the section above this one, perhaps it'd be best if the old TPP was never enacted. There isn't really enough information uniquely about Red to make a decent page that's not just rehashing everything that happened to Ashley. Over three years ago, the first Proposal about splitting the pages was made; like the above TPP, it passed, but was never enacted. About a month later, it was overturned by this proposal, which established a convention that if characters are similar enough, they should share an article. This convention was cited many times over the years whenever the issue of what deserves a separate page came up on the proposals; a different proposal tried to undo this convention in 2008, but it failed. More recently, a TPP about splitting Young Cricket and Master Mantis was voted down, and another TPP about Dribble and Spitz is about to go the same way. No one has officially tried to split Kat and Ana yet, and I hope this doesn't change. It doesn't make sense to split any of these characters, and so I propose we strike down the TPP that passed here seven months ago; it's hung over our heads for too long.

In short, Ashley and Red should be kept together - for all the reasons listed in Ghost Jam's old proposal (the second one I linked to), for the reasons given for keeping the other WarioWare characters together, and for consistency's sake.

Proposer: Deadline: April 22, 2011, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) - Per my proposal here, per Ghost Jam's proposal here, per the opposers here, and per LGM, Zero and myself in the section above this TPP.
 * 2) Per him and I like it merged!
 * 3) Per all.
 * 4) Per my opposition to the proposal to split them.
 * 5) Per my personal policy on either the Young Cricket and Master Mantis or Dribble and Spitz proposal. Also in the previous proposal, it say that Red has enough information to be split, but there's barely two sentences on Red.
 * 6) Per all.
 * 7) Noone seemed interested in splitting it in the first place, so why bother splitting them? Besides, Red isn't developed enough. When he gets his own games, we can split. But not now.
 * 8) Two redundant articles aren't necessary if they can be merged.
 * 9) I wanted to oppose that proposal anyway. Per proposal.
 * 10) Per all
 * 11) - Looking at all of the reasons above, and how far this splitting has currently been carried out, I can see this is the better idea.
 * 12) - Per Walkazo.
 * 13) There's enough evidence listed to the point of which I don't want to read it all, so I'll just per all.
 * 14) Per all.
 * 15) Per all.

Comments
And just to be clear, since this TPP is now in progress, no major changes should be made to the Ashley and Red page until it hits the deadline (i.e. the page shouldn't be split until this TPP fails, if it fails). - 13:21, 8 April 2011 (EDT)

@Reddragon19k: I'm actually a "her" ;) - 13:27, 8 April 2011 (EDT)

@Iggy: Walkazo made this proposal for the same reasons Ghost Jam already presented. And while a group of people did agree to split it, that doesn't matter now. This is a new proposal, with mostly different people voting. Also, you never actually said why Ashley and Red should be split. All you pretty much said was that everyone else agreed on it, so you don't actually have a good reason. --Reversinator 17:46, 8 April 2011 (EDT)


 * I voted support in the previous proposal, but I changed my mind. 19:19, 8 April 2011 (EDT)

I would still oppose if the articles I mentioned 1 YEAR AGO were still kept as is, but I really dont have the time espciallly with my newly cruel father, school, Left 4 dead and the newly released pokemon games to daily check the comments and such so I won't vote

Split Ashley's song from Ashley and Red
Well here's a couple of reasons of why I support to split these: 1. You don't normally find songs that have something to do with the character or group of characters (IE. DK Rap.) 2. It's keep this article rather messy and unorganized.

Proposer: Deadline: June 29, 2011, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) Per my proposal.
 * 2) - We have pages for other songs, so this one should get its own article too. All the versions of the song, the "Made In Wario is Number One" Trivia and the controversy would fit nicely in a single, separate page.
 * 3) Per Both!
 * 4) Per all!
 * 5) Per all.

Comments
Excuse me! 15+14=29! It ends on the 29th, not 30th! Reddragon19k 08:18, 15 June 2011 (EDT)
 * Are you planning on putting all three versions in a separate article?
 * I don't think that'd work. So no I'm not.:/--

Comment
I guess the split discussion already ended but I don't think Red deserves to be in the article name. Until now I didn't even know his name. In my opinion, the article should just be called Ashley, but with Red as a section in the same article. I highly doubt anyone will agree with me, but I didn't think it would hurt to check.
 * Don't do it, Mason. Mario &amp; Luigi
 * Don't do what? I can discuss whatever I want. I never planned on laying a finger on the article.
 * I mean, don't rename the page. Mario &amp; Luigi

Update required
Error! Error! Article not reaching Game and Wario standards! Edit now or face certain deleting! (Yes, I am speaing like a robot.) Your old friend Keboom.
 * ...What?

Basically what I'm saying is the article is out of date.

Uhhhh...

Split Ashley and Red again
I honestly don't see why Ashley and Red are merged anyway. The last time we had this discussion was four years ago, and things have changed since then. There's plenty of info for both of them to have their own pages, and Ashley is getting appearances without Red now.

Proposer: Deadline: August 21, 2015, 23:59 GMT

Support

 * 1) Per proposal.

Oppose

 * 1) - see below.
 * 2) - Per Glowsquid.
 * 3) As pointed out below, the only advantage of giving Red his own article would just be a reiteration of what this article already does. I don't see the real need to split Ashley and Red. Also, you need to consider Dribble and Spitz, Kat and Ana, and Young Cricket and Master Mantis as well. Should those be split too?
 * 4) Per Glowsquid and history. We've had this discussion a number of times of the years, it all comes down to the same thing. There isn't enough relevant information for two articles to exist on their own nor is there a good reason for splitting. Worst case scenario, we agree to a split and then have another vote to remerge (which has happened twice). Best case scenario, we agree to a split and then no one performs it (which has also happened twice).
 * 5) Per Glowsquid and Ghost Jam.
 * 6) – Per Glowsquid.
 * 7) Per all.
 * 8) Per Glowsquid.

Comments
Ashley and Red are an ensemble. They may have distinct personality and appearances, yeah, but the overwhelming majority of their screentime is spent together, and Red exist more as a prop for Ashley than as his own entity. Of course the articles can be splited if Red's character is developed more, but none of the games that have been released since that last TPP do that.

the article as it currently is describe both character as succintly and as comprehensively as possible. A standalone Red page would just reiterate the same info as here with the bits specific to Ashley cut out (while Ashley's standalone page would largely remain as it is, because Red never does anything on his own), and I don't think uselessly duplicating the info like that is productive.

"and Ashley is getting appearances without Red now.

That's true of... two games, maybe? They appear together in Game & Wario and Rhythm Tengoku The Best+, Ashley is in Smash, and nobody knows what they do in that Brand Brothers P music video (or even if they appear at all) it's a clip show. even for smash, you could be an Horrible Person and says red is ashley's wand, which would leave paper airplane chase as the one other time ashley appears without red (and it's a very brief cameo). --Glowsquid (talk) 18:42, 7 August 2015 (EDT)

Ashley Voice Samples
I got some vooice samples of her voices in both Japanese and English versions of the game. If I upload this here on wiki, would someone mind adding it for me? 18:20, 9 April 2016 (EDT)
 * Would be great. Just upload it now and we'll deal with linking them later. 21:10, 9 April 2016 (EDT)
 * Alright, Thank you!!! :) 18:49, 10 April 2016 (EDT)

Ashley's English VA
I have my doubts as to whether it's correct to assume that Peyser was the English voice of Ashley. While it is true that Peyser is among the English actors added to the English version of Touched not previously involved (or credited) in the Japanese version, it is also true that she is only credited in Touched and Twisted. The common denominator between those two games: Mona Pizza. The lead vocals between the Warioware games and the Brawl version are clearly the same woman, and for all we know that's all Peyser ever actually did for Nintendo. Additionally, it was stated in a podcast cited on Peyser's page on this wiki that Ashley's voice was a Treehouse member (note: Peyser's name was never stated). Peyser does not possess any such association, and her Linkedin profile does not indicate any ties to Nintendo that would suggest that she did. For all we know someone like Rades or Ninomiya picked up Ashley in addition to whatever roles they had already (as alluded to in said podcast). Please take notice of this observation and verify your facts. Thank you. Kyubihanyou (talk) 23:53, 19 April 2016 (EDT)
 * Well, well that's embarassing.

though for what it's worth, an account claiming to be her ("Hi! I'm the Christina Peyser who did the voiceover for Ashley and Mona Pizza.") edited the Christina Peyser page a year ago. It's obviously not a proof in itself, but I don't see why anyone would bother to impersonate an insanely obscure "voice actor" for an obscure character just to remove a fake image from a fan wiki if they're not going to do anything else. --Glowsquid (talk) 09:45, 20 April 2016 (EDT)
 * That's quite the tidbit. At worst she was Ashley in Touched only, with Smooth Moves (the game where she was globally made an English speaker) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lxD-l-gSKM) being a permanent recast to someone else, and the podcast interview was referring to that person reprising in later games such as Game & Wario. Kyubihanyou (talk) 13:09, 20 April 2016 (EDT)
 * Hi just got into this...Back on when I was uh...11 I guess I did some searching and various sites credited Peyser for the voice of Ashley in Touched. Then I created a page for peyser but I put the wrong image. Said person claiming to be Peyser removed it...I think it is really her, nobody would ned to be Peyser to remove an image so...anyway...

Well, Christine is credited for Touched! and it looks she indeed did Ashley for this game. The game looks to be low budget, since I ripped the samples myself and the microphones used are HORRIBLE...So probably they asked Peyser to do it rather than hiring a new voicer.

For Smooth Moves she isnt credited, not for voice acting at least. Ashley also sounds different in this game. However most Japanese sites and western ones with somewhat old dating credits her for the voice. I think those are all wrong, personally;

After Smooth moves the voicer seems to be the same...I wonder who it is...

I still dont know who did the japanese voice. I am doing research and asking for help of others to do so...

20:58, 9 December 2016 (EST)

Split?
Should we split them for both being separate characters, and Ashley appearing on her own a few times? -- 06:38, September 23, 2019 (EDT)


 * That's the rub - Ashley has appeared on her own, but you almost never see Red without Ashley, and if you'll take note of previous proposals, he'd lack enough information to write a proper article that isn't literally just "this one but shorter". If it were me, I wouldn't proceed unless I was sure I could actually present an argument that not only isn't a retread of previous attempts, but stands as effective on its own merits. -- 06:58, September 23, 2019 (EDT)


 * Lord's right; Red never appears without Ashley, so we can't do much if he had a page. Flogger