Talk:Hot Monster

Merge Hot Monster with Red Monster
So, this, huh? All right, let me get started here by saying that both of these wheels are essentially the same thing under different names. Although their exact relations to the Monster wheels are different, it's only by a slight margin. The Red Monster wheels increase acceleration and lower weight by a LITTLE. The Hot Monster wheels are statistically identical to the Monster wheels. Regardless, there's one difference we cannot ignore: both of these wheels are just the same red counterparts to the Monster wheels while still serving generally the same purpose. I say they be merged, because they are basically the exact same thing.

Proposer: (banned) Deadline: September 3, 2017, 23:59 GMT

Oppose

 * 1) I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to oppose this one. Both the Hot Monster and Red Monster are both different statistically, not just visually, so no, they don't serve the same purpose of both Hot and Red Monster tires.
 * 2) - They both look visually similar, yes. However, the stats of the Hot Monster are actually identical to the standard Monster's. And with that being the case, Slick and Cyber Slick would be merged if we went off of that, as well as several different similar tires. Honestly, it'd make more sense to merge Hot Monster with Monster, but, uh, no.
 * 3) These two tires have different names across all languages, and their stat differences and different appearances are enough for them to have their own article.
 * 4) These are completely different things. Per all.
 * 5) They both have different appearances and stats, along with having different names in every language, so I'm going to have to oppose this one. Per all.
 * 6) The only similarity is that it's a variant of the Monster tire. Per all.
 * 7) Even minor statistical differences matter. Per all.
 * 8) Different names, different stats, different appearances. There is no reason to merge these whatsoever.
 * 9) It is not even as red as Red Monster. Per all.
 * 10) They have different stats, are from different games, their names are completely different in both America and the PAL regions, this one isn't red but orange and has a different design, the monster wheels they originated from are different (Even though only slightly), and it would generally be confusing for just about everyone.

Comments
If I'm the only one who will support this proposal, then so be it. I'm willing to stand alone. (I know, that sounds stupid, but still, it's true.) 00:08, 20 August 2017 (EDT)
 * You can always cancel it if you think that. 00:46, 20 August 2017 (EDT)

I'm not going to cancel this proposal at all. I'll let it flow where it goes. Anyway, couldn't we just put a section under the Red Monster article in Mario Kart 8 and talk about the Hot Monster there? Red Monster wheels debuted in Mario Kart 7, so if it actually passed, Hot Monster and Red Monster should be in the Red Monster article. So here's the thing, although they seem to have slightly different stats, '''they're basically the same red Monster wheels that are counterparts to the actual Monster wheels. Both may have different stats, but the thing is, while the differences are small enough to warrant the Red Monster getting its own article, they do NOT warrant the Hot Monster getting its own article.''' (I'm not shouting, I'm just trying to make my points clear.) 15:57, 20 August 2017 (EDT)
 * The distinguish template at the top of the page already makes that distinction between the two, as well as a passing sentence. Also, no, they're different tires. The names being different is the best indication, as even though other tires have different incarnations, I believe they also retain their Japanese name, like Slick, Wood, and Monster (tire). If these can retain their same Japanese name across two games, why is Hot Monster the only anomaly? Red Monsters and Hot Monsters additionally serve a different and are part of a different "family" of tires so to speak. Red Monsters have different stats than the Monster in Mario Kart 7, which makes them their own part, while Hot Monsters serve as the recolored variant of tire with the same stats like Cyber Slick, Retro Off-road, Azure Roller, etc, with Hot Monster even having the same filename convention as the other tires (it having a Z-prefix before its name, in this case, being called TireX_Zbi.szs) 20:23, 20 August 2017 (EDT)

There's a difference. I'm not talking about merging the alternate skins with their main skins, I am talking about merging the two alternate skins that are, barring the minor stat differences, the same red counterpart to the Monster wheels. As for the names, just...why? Names aren't the best indication of two things being different, if you look at the proposal about merging the Wilt Shroom with the Dried Shroom. These two serve generally the same purpose as red counterparts of the Monster wheels. Sure, they specifically have minor stat differences, but overall, they have about the same stats, and relative to the Monster wheels. 20:40, 20 August 2017 (EDT)
 * I know what you're talking about, please reread my points. And yes, names aren't the only indication of two things being different, but as I said in the above, the Hot Monster is grouped in the same grouping as the recolor tires in Mario Kart 8 rather than classified separately like it was in Mario Kart 7. The distinction and those differences associated with different classifications are enough to keep the articles split. 20:55, 20 August 2017 (EDT)

You say the Hot Monster is in the same grouping as the recolor tires because it has the same stats as the Monster, right? Well, either way, the information we have doesn't really warrant it being its own article, since it's just more of a clone of the Monster tires than Luigi in the SNES and N64 days of Mario. I'd say we put it in the Red Monster article because it's just a red counterpart just like the Red Monster, and I don't know, they both seem to gravitate toward the same concept just from their looks. I mean, how is this thing its own part, actually? 21:08, 20 August 2017 (EDT)
 * Not only is the Hot Monster have the same stats like the recolor tires, the file name is organized in the same manner, as I already said in my comment above. The Hot Monster is called TireX_Zbi.szs, while the regular Monster is called TireX_Big.szs, and the rest of the recolor tires have the same Z-prefix, with examples, the Azure Roller and Cyber Slick, being called TireX_Zsm.szs and TireX_Zsl.szs respectively. The Hot Monster in this game was explicitly meant to serve as a recolor part, compared to the Red Monster in Mario Kart 7 serving as a lookalike to the Monster, but being its own distinct tire.  21:15, 20 August 2017 (EDT)

Wait, the Hot Monster was EXPLICITY meant to serve as a recolor tire?! That's just bull. It's probably not as bull as the character we don't speak of, but still, that's just wrong. Is there ANYTHING that makes it its own part, other than the code? 21:20, 20 August 2017 (EDT)
 * Yes. That's how the game developers handled it. Please stick your comment to the scope of the proposal. 22:53, 20 August 2017 (EDT)