Category talk:Mario Enemies

Note: The following discussion and proposal were moved from the deleted talk page of "Category:Koopa Troop".

Members
This might be a dumb question, but how do we know that all of these enemies are a part of the Koopa Troop and aren't just creatures that happen to be hostile to Mario and co.?
 * Wow, this category's a mess. It's basically just "Category:Mario Enemies" with a misleading name. Niiue (talk) 02:46, 14 December 2015 (EST)
 * Bumping, but yeah, shouldn't we just rename this to "Mario Enemies"? 18:34, 19 January 2016 (EST)
 * Furthermore, we have Category:Wario Enemies, Category:Donkey Kong Enemies, and Category:Yoshi Enemies as well, but no Category:Mario Enemies as of this post. We should rename this to Category:Mario Enemies and move all the Mario subseries enemy categories (such as Mario & Luigi Series Enemies, Paper Mario Series Enemies, New Super Mario Bros. Series Enemies, Super Mario World Enemies etc. as subcategories of this). Meanwhile, we should rename the beginning sentence in Category:Enemies to "Enemies throughout the series provided per MarioWiki's coverage. 19:03, 19 January 2016 (EST)

Do something about this category
Assuming that literally every enemy that fights against Mario is a part of Bowser's legion is speculative as best and pure fancruft at worst. At it stands, this category is just bad, plain and simple. With that said, there are several options that can be taken here.

Option 1: Delete this category

It's certainly the most blunderbuss option, but it would get the job done. This option would result in the category being deleted and completely removed from all articles, without anything to replace it. Inelegant, to be sure.

Option 2: Move this category to 

As suggested above by Bazooka Mario, since we currently have Category:Yoshi Enemies, Category:Donkey Kong Enemies, and Category:Wario Enemies, but no obvious parallel for the Mario enemies. This option involves moving this category to "Category:Mario Enemies", and subsequently updating all links and inclusions. Note that this would still involve removing the category from a majority of articles: per MarioWiki:Categories, the game-specific enemy categories would become subcategories of this one, and per MarioWiki:Categories again, it would be unnecessary to include the broad category alongside the more specific categories.

Option 3: Trim this category massively

There are enemies that have been definitely shown to be a part of Bowser's army, and once upon a time, there was a similar category for Wart's army, the 8 bits, before it was unceremoniously deleted. This option would involve keeping the category as is, but removing every article whose subject isn't obviously a part of the Koopa Troop. It would also include both enemies and bosses.

Option 4: Do nothing

I'm including this for fairness. This option would involve nothing happening and nothing being updated, removed, or otherwise changed. I would consider this to be disadvantageous for the wiki.

These are all of the options that I would consider to be reasonable (though I'm all-ears for suggestions). I am personally vouching for option 2 (move the category), if only because the wiki already has Category:Mario Games and Category:Mario Games Category:Mario Characters. Though there also isn't a category for Mario species, items, objects, allies, and locations, I believe that's mostly because nobody had pressed the issue beforehand.

Proposer: Deadline: July 30, 2017, 23:59 GMT

Option 1: Delete this category

 * 1) there is no way to trim or move this category in a way that eliminates the arbitrariness in the selection of what is featured in the category. The least arbitrary option is to simply delete the category.

Option 2: Move this category to

 * 1) Per proposal.
 * 2) Per proposal.
 * 3) None of the other solutions seem to make sense.
 * 4) Vote of support
 * 5) Option 1 came as a shock. That is 695 PAGES! plus a subcategory. However, this option is a little better than option 3, as it would mean going through the 695 pages and checking out whether or not they should be in the category, and that is assuming Koopa Troop would be the best name for the category. For me, option 2 would be the best approach. Though, if it does passes, we may have to change some other categories to reflect them being Mario enemies (I am talking about those in the Mario series). And this category is a huge thing. It would be nice to break it down a little, but it can't be done if it is named Koopa Troop. Though, I don't mind it being big.
 * 6) Per all.
 * 7) This would be the least extreme change overall, and a good compromise. Per all.
 * 8) Per all.
 * 9) Per all.
 * 10) Per all.
 * 11) Per all.

Option 3: Trim this category

 * 1) I think that this is a decently-useful category to have, as there are many enemies that are explicitly not part of the Koopa Troop, like many enemies from the RPGs and Mario Land games, as well as some that just seem to be feral.
 * 2) Despite the precedence against it with the 8 bits, I do think there's merit to trimming the category as well.
 * 3) Per all. We shouldn't forget that the Koopa Troop does exist.

Comments
Also Time Turner, did you mean "Category:Mario Games and Category:Mario Characters"? 23:43, 16 July 2017 (EDT)
 * Yes, that is exactly what I meant. 23:44, 16 July 2017 (EDT)

The matter is more interesting than it seems, as it reflects how at Nintendo they apparently refuse to clearly define the Koopa Troop in recent times. To explain it better, you can have a look at, that showed a clear organization of the Koopa Troop, with the enemies categorized so it was possible to know if they were part of it and of what subgroup they pertained. And the latter Perfect Edition of the Great Mario Character Encyclopedia, even if it no longer described the organization of the army, still used the same categories so it was possible to know if an enemy belonged to the troop or not. But in the two recent books of this kind, the Encyclopedia Super Mario Bros. and the Super Mario Pia, such a categorization is missing, and the Koopa Troop's organization isn't described, being barely mentioned in some bios. Essentially, it looks like at Nintendo they don't want to define the Koopa Troop in detail anymore, or at least with the detail that was seen in the '90s, and the difficulties we are facing here are the same we are having in describing the current Koopa Troop. While the second option is valid regardless of this issue - at this point we really need a Mario Enemies category - I wonder what we should do about the Koopa Troop, considering how vaguely it is described in the current material.--Mister Wu (talk) 20:49, 19 July 2017 (EDT)

I would like to point out the fallacy of moving this to the enemies category, as there are many enemies that aren't affiliated with the Koopa Troop, such as enemies in the Mario Land and Wario Land games, Donkey Kong enemies, Wario World enemies, enemies from many factions in the Mario RPGs, Super Mario Bros. 2 enemies, and so on. 16:06, 20 July 2017 (CT)
 * The category's going to be retooled to fit its new purpose (which wouldn't even cover Wario enemies or Donkey Kong enemies in the first place). Right now, it encompasses such a large number of Mario enemies that it makes sense to reappropriate it. 17:19, 20 July 2017 (EDT)
 * Oh, I hadn't noticed it said Mario enemies, sorry. But what about the RPG enemies that are against the Koopa Troop, like the Smithy Gang and X-Nauts? 16:23, 20 July 2017 (CT)
 * While the category currently doesn't encompass every Mario enemy, it's basically been used as a "Mario enemies" category with a few exceptions. If this category is taken at face value as the list of Bowser's minions, then most of the enemies in this category have no place being here in the slightest. I suspect that it's a remnant of a time where the Koopa Troop was still being described as a "militaristic dictatorship" In any case, if the category is moved, all of that will be cleared up. 17:31, 20 July 2017 (EDT)